Extremely unlikely, though Robbins Landon called Haydn 52 the ‘…grandfather’ of Beethoven 5; I doubt if anyone would go as far as ‘…inspired’, and it’s unlikely Beethoven knew Haydn 52. That said, there are some common features such as the intense working out of material in the two respective first movements, but that’s a common enough Haydnesque fingerprint found all over Beethoven. Regarding Beethoven and his ‘Fate’ motif, listen to Haydn Symphony 28, and I would suggest there is no link there either, nor to the opening movement of Haydn’s f# minor string quartet Opus 50 No 4, nor to the little figure in the first movement of Haydn’s E flat piano sonata Hob. XVI:49, nor to the opening of Mozarts piano concerto 25, nor to any number of other incidences of perceived similarities. In terms of through-composition and cyclic integration, the only previous symphony comparable to Beethoven 5 (1808) is Haydn 45 (1772), whilst the idea of returning to Minuet/Scherzo movement also has a precedent in Haydn 46. Regarding Beethoven 5, the work Beethoven definitely did know was Haydn 95, and returning to your original comment, you might find the following explanation of the tonal journey of these two c minor symphonies in 3rd-related keys to be of some interest. Haydn Symphony 95 in c minor (1791) Beethoven Symphony 5 in c minor (1808) 1st movement - both c minor 2nd movement - both 3rd-related (Haydn E flat major, Beethoven A flat major) 3rd movement - both c minor, C major, c minor 4th movement - both C major. The other factor with which I have difficulty is that Haydn 52 is a product of his ‘sturm und drang’ period (c.1766-1773); I doubt Beethoven would be ‘…inspired’ by an old musical movement and phase that ended about 35 years earlier; that said, there are some features of sturm und drang that were inherent to Beethoven’s own style (and to Mozart’s as well). Hope that’s of some interest to yourself, or anyone else passing by.
@@staffanolofsson8201 ‘…he wrote 104’ [Recte 107]. In addition to the familiar list of Symphonies 1-104 (Hob. I:1-104) drawn up by Mandyczewski in 1907 and adopted without change in the universal Hoboken catalogue, the following three must be added: Symphony ‘A’ Hob. I:107 Symphony ‘B’ Hob I:108 The sinfonia (overture) to Le pescatrici Hob I:106 - a three movement symphony in all but name. The missing Hob. I:105 is the Sinfonia concertante.
1st movement
0:32 begins | 1:08 moment | 2:52 moment |
2nd movement
3rd movement
15:45 begins
Already wonderful, but I would be ever grateful to hear them also in other Haydn symphonies, notably the mesmerizing n°51. Thank you
eccellente, grazie.
Lovely, if no-one else enjoys this the orchestra obviously did.
Great sounding chamber orchestra in a great sounding hall. Enjoyed very much. Thank you!
A very vigorous performance of this symphony that more than likely inspired Beethoven when composing his 5th sharing the same key of c minor.
Extremely unlikely, though Robbins Landon called Haydn 52 the ‘…grandfather’ of Beethoven 5; I doubt if anyone would go as far as ‘…inspired’, and it’s unlikely Beethoven knew Haydn 52.
That said, there are some common features such as the intense working out of material in the two respective first movements, but that’s a common enough Haydnesque fingerprint found all over Beethoven.
Regarding Beethoven and his ‘Fate’ motif, listen to Haydn Symphony 28, and I would suggest there is no link there either, nor to the opening movement of Haydn’s f# minor string quartet Opus 50 No 4, nor to the little figure in the first movement of Haydn’s E flat piano sonata Hob. XVI:49, nor to the opening of Mozarts piano concerto 25, nor to any number of other incidences of perceived similarities.
In terms of through-composition and cyclic integration, the only previous symphony comparable to Beethoven 5 (1808) is Haydn 45 (1772), whilst the idea of returning to Minuet/Scherzo movement also has a precedent in Haydn 46.
Regarding Beethoven 5, the work Beethoven definitely did know was Haydn 95, and returning to your original comment, you might find the following explanation of the tonal journey of these two c minor symphonies in 3rd-related keys to be of some interest.
Haydn Symphony 95 in c minor (1791)
Beethoven Symphony 5 in c minor (1808)
1st movement - both c minor
2nd movement - both 3rd-related
(Haydn E flat major, Beethoven A flat major)
3rd movement - both c minor, C major, c minor
4th movement - both C major.
The other factor with which I have difficulty is that Haydn 52 is a product of his ‘sturm und drang’ period (c.1766-1773); I doubt Beethoven would be ‘…inspired’ by an old musical movement and phase that ended about 35 years earlier; that said, there are some features of sturm und drang that were inherent to Beethoven’s own style (and to Mozart’s as well).
Hope that’s of some interest to yourself, or anyone else passing by.
Bravo! 👏👏👏👏
Bravo!!
Bravissimo!!! Muchas gracias!! :)
Another wonderful interpretation by my favorite chamber orchestra! 👏
One of Haydn’s greatest symphonies. Stunning performance. When was this performed? I see the notes now, November, 2021 in Oslo.
❤❤❤
❤
Why not also play more contemporary composers like Miritreus? For example, his beautiful 'Come what may'.
Who? What? Tried googling it, keeps sending me to Mitradate by Mozart or Moulin Rouge, are you suggesting a comparison?
sturm und drag period
and then some, last of the line of S+D, apart from 104, which was the the result of genuine conflict.
Drang
野生爆弾くっきーさんがおる❤
No 52?
Yes, Haydn was a work maiac, he wrote 104.
@@staffanolofsson8201
‘…he wrote 104’ [Recte 107].
In addition to the familiar list of Symphonies 1-104 (Hob. I:1-104) drawn up by Mandyczewski in 1907 and adopted without change in the universal Hoboken catalogue, the following three must be added:
Symphony ‘A’ Hob. I:107
Symphony ‘B’ Hob I:108
The sinfonia (overture) to Le pescatrici Hob I:106 - a three movement symphony in all but name.
The missing Hob. I:105 is the Sinfonia concertante.
Undeservedly neglected work, exciting performance. Funny contrast: the players standing, in the old style, reading their music from ipads.