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Doctors Who Can't Hack It | Incident Report 042 | ZDoggMD.com
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ค. 2017
- Doctors are ditching clinical medicine because of burnout. We discuss both the stigma and the support for these dropout docs.
Make sure to check out the uncensored TribeTalk associated episode where we answer YOUR comments! • TribeTalk: Doctors Who...
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I've only been a nurse for 3.5 years and I feel crappy about it but all I dream about is leaving my ER job and getting the hell out of the hospital. I look around and see all these nurses who have been at it for 20 or 30 yrs and don't know how they do it. All I want to do is go to work and be treated with respect.
Try hospice work....
Finishing up a family medicine residency and can't bring myself to settle on a job for next year. It all seems terrible. But I have almost half a mil in debt. All I want to do is lay in bed and watch TH-cam. Love you zdogg
maybe just do locums? especially in alaska man
just do a bunch of part-time jobs, until you find something you can do. I had very similar feelings on settling for a job.
Same in nursing. If I had stayed in hospital nursing, I would have soon been rendered disabled & sentenced to poverty. I left & found work I can do well AND sustain my own well being. No Regrets. Nursing is my career, NOT my religion. I greatly admire those who are able to do what I could not. But I did what I had to do to continue earning a living & serving people around me in other ways. Today, my work is in teaching people to understand, prevent, manage or even reverse chronic diseases. I never touch them in person. Less drama. No applause. But lives are saved slowly, & quality of lives are changed forever. Call me a drop out all you want. I'm not accepting that.
Our doctor don't get the support they need in a patient care setting. They don't get the RESPECT they deserve for dedicating their entire lives to help people. The disrespect falls down the line; nurses, CNA, pharmacy, therapies, etc.
Doctors have worked SO HARD only to be slapped in the face by administration and patients. Many feel they are just a number and expendable.
We all suffer burnout at sometime, but the support given by coworkers and administration can make a difference. I believe doctors don't feel as valued as they once were (and deserve)
To answer your questions, YES. We should support them leaving. They don't live in a hospital. They have families and other obligations as well. How can you take care of patients when you aren't well on the inside?
Patient care is changing, but care should NOT be the "the customer is always right" mentality.
Money is not everything.
Marilyn Hellebuyck thank you
Marilyn Hellebuyck My best friend is a dedicated CNA and now a Med Tech and they get treated like crap from fellow RN’s and Doctors. Its really sad. She has sat with patients and held their hand as they pass away so they aren’t alone when no family there. Seems everyone treats CNA’s like crap but they are usually the ones giving the most direct care.
Old consultant used to say "when your an intern the only one who thinks your actually a doctor, is your mother" . You have to see patients !
It’s a tough important job.
The healer needs healing.
Even though I'm a muggle your videos are amazing. I didn't even realize that there were people who thought doctors were whiny complainers. I mean they sacrifice a lot and if they then decide to leave that kind of work it means (at least to me) that something is terribly wrong with the work itself.
"Spoken like a true a-hole. That's why I keep you around" 😂
I'm not a doctor and do not express stress from education standpoint, etc. As a nurse for past 2+ decades and suffering from extreme burnout from working in chronically short staffed hospitals caring for sicker and sicker patients. Administration only focused on bottom line, $$$$. And are told do the best you can. Not good enough. Healthcare workers can work this way temporarily but after a decade or more enough is enough.
You speak no truer words
Wauneta G. As a RN for 20 years, I can't agree with you more!
Agree. I was a nurse for 30+ years. I quit about 8 years ago, let my license lapse and now live on SS. Happy, happy, happy.
This is not unique to physicians, something like 30% of nurses leave the profession within the first year.
Considering only 2/3 of students successfully complete nursing school, these losses really contribute to the nursing shortage
I just finished "Doctors Who Can't Hack It | Incident Report 042 | ZDoggMD.com" . I did clinical medicine for 18 years. I had to stop due to medical problems. I am now on disability and have not done any medical related work for 6 years. I struggle with the idea "am I still a doctor" for a long time. I finally decided not to call myself doctor unless I am with someone who knew me when I was in practice.
There is NO WAY I would judge a dr for leaving. I've worked in social services for over 10 years so I understand the burnout. Also, as a patient, I can see how dr's hands are tied due to the current insurance regulations. They sometimes can't prescribe what they feel is in out best interest because they know insurance won't cover it.... etc... I can go on and on...
If they're leaving because they're no longer able to handle it emotionally, there should be no shame in that. If they're burned out, what kind of care are they giving? Better to be out of direct patient care than not give a shit.
Kelly Wood YES. If you dont feel like you are able to practice and feel the same passion and emotional satisfaction then you deserve to step away!! You can always go back if you dont end up finding something that makes you feel better emotionally and able to support yourself..Stepping away before falling into a deep depression and endless stress due to your work should be the obvious choice and should NEVER be seen as "not being able to hack it!" Im sure there are genuinely a lot of people who get to internships and realize that they just arent ready to commit to the amount of work thats needed to be a doctor and you know what? Thats ok too. If youre entering or continuing a career where youre miserable ahat makes you think anything is going to change if you just "stick with it". I quit veterinary medicine and I miss the animals but I don't miss the stress and massive amount of work for horrible pay and no respect from the higher ups..!
thanks sir your channel keeps me back on focus. you are someone i can genuinely look up to.
ZDogg. Our whole medical system is screwed up. Medical training, insurance, big pharma, government regulation, the AMA and the public expectation of what constitutes quality care. And don't get me started on Medicare. 3.0 would be a good start.
You can tolerate most of it, until they tell you that you're not good enough, or sue you. If you've done the absolute best you can, devoted 20 years, given up everything, the are told by some administrator or lawyer that you aren't satisfactory, there is no reason to continue. Quit.
Doctors do more than work. They deserve to have private lives. They deserve time to relax and sleep. Sufficient sleep is necessary to achieve good health.
med school, nursing school, hospital. they does not feed us with passion. sadly
The system in healthcare needs to change.... Period. I never knew how messed up it is, I'm just a CNA and I'm about to walk away...
16:47 "Aren't you now judging? " "Yes I am.."
DAMN. Respect.
Been a med/surge nurse for almost two years. I was a teacher before that. I burned out as a teacher. So knowing what burn out feels like, I’m approaching this new career intentionally taking burn out head on. Watching your videos have helped me laugh about my work (stress relief haves reduce burnout) as well as take burn out head on.
Your right burn out starts with the death of passion. I saw that happen to my teaching passion. I’m determined to not let that happen with nursing. For me I do this by asking myself at the start of each shift what can I do to get my patients safely home/out of the hospital. As long as I can say I helped my patients progress or achieve that goal then it’s a good day.
As for those patients/family who doesn’t want my help or no matter what I do are not satisfied. I’m having to learn how to let them go. (And that’s the hard part).
Good exposition. We have several things in common; only I went through similar experiences, but 40 years before you. I believe you are right. Management and lawyers have been a big problem for a long time. Also many people (sometimes other doctors) are back stabbers. (False reports to try to get you fired.) I don't think most people going into medicine don't understand how hard it is. Every day after work I would spend hours looking up topics, related to my patients, on Medline.
I don't blame them at all! Nobody's entitled to their labor! Atlas Shrugged.
So what can we do now with this useless degree? A law graduate finds a job anywhere; not so with medical graduates.
I was on Gen Surg/GI/Colon/RectalSx/Bariatric service and needed to get to the hospital stat. Driving to the hospital and I ran out of gas at 3 am. Hard to find a place for gas in a small town.
It's hard everywhere because those that don't care suck the soul out of those that do truly care. The problems everywhere are escalating exponentially are everyday I little bit more of my soul dies. I want to care and do what I can to help but I believe you said morally injured. What can we do? Why......
Thanks
Money system is a necessary evil. Because with barter, you can't standardize a chicken. How much is plenty?
As a non physician I can't blame doctors for leaving. I've heard how hard it is and I can completely understand walking away to save your own mental health. However, there is a growing physician shortage and doctors are in a very limited supply. So, for every doctor that walks away they took a spot in med school from a potential doctor who wouldn't have walked away, and would have benefited patients all their lives
I mean... im in law school and im already burned out on law. Can't say its anything emotional so much as boredom. So.... I guess in some respects I can sympathize. That being said our profession suffers from high burn out and suicide as well, and divorce and drug abuse etc. Not quite sure id fall into these but I can see depression being an issue. (Which interestingly... I just looked it up and according to John Hopkins we are number 1 oh joy)
For 10 years I had an even nastier form of golden handcuffs in the form of huge alimony. My take-home pay was whatever was left over, so it was like golden handcuffs without the gold. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
As a muggle I dont think anyone has a right to put people down who leave the profession. They r mostly doing a service and spent a ton of money to get where they r. I think a lot of people just dont understand how burnout works
What do you suggest for a graduate of medical school who could not get a residency?
How would they pay back those loans? What is a respectable alternative?
I know a whole bunch of doctors that are out if they get a better deal or hit 65 they are out. I see nurses and doctors who slave to help others but don’t take care of themselves.
As a doctor you feel pain with poor outcomes. You are always looking over your shoulder for lawyers. And your carrier can be over with 1 patient.
Can health care provide better care and outcomes with out the mountains of paperwork? Sure.
Hey if someone was able to cut back on the massive drug abuse problem they would save huge numbers of people. Would anyone say “ thank you”?
Does anyone ever say thank you?
You are a different person , maybe not better, after residency.
I think Doctors that know they are burnt out and dont move on for a bit and arent 100 percent dedicated to patient care are actually dangerous. They should move on until they het to a place where they may be able to go back to direct patient care.
Awesome video. Thank you for all of your great content
While you are employed, you have a duty to treat the patient to the best of your ability. I don't feel you have any obligation to stay in the field if you come to not feel the same as when you started, and actually you do a disservice to the patient and everyone around you by staying. The greatest thing you can do in this case is to try and fix your feelings, but if it doesn't work, walk away and don't look back. I did the exact same in criminal law - I started hating the people I was supposed to be serving and advocating for. I tried to work through it but it didn't help. You aren't helping people if you aren't 100% into it anymore. I left. After a year or so I stopped getting emotional about that work at all. I am now happier in another field. Time is the ultimate healer.
I wonder how much of this is egos in the workplace and just a hard workplace environment amongst colleagues.
SImple ZDOG, as a nurse, and now a nursing director i've personally witnessed the medical system destroy, overwork,under resource and dismiss Medical officers concerns. Currently it seems like a system that runs on the item of "I did this 20 years ago in my residency, you have to do it now"
I think leaving is the responsible choice. If you're so incapable of handling the job that you feel the need to run away, you will not be an effective cog in the big wheel of medicine. Patients will suffer. I know a dental assistant who found she couldn't handle the daily dose of being covered in mouth blood. She now works in billing, but she volunteers at RAM clinics so she can still help in a clinical setting, but in smaller doses so that she can handle it.
Of course, this sympathy does not extend to those who flee to avoid malpractice suits. Lookin' at you, my former pediatric GI specialist. Refused to disclose positive Celiac disease tests to patients, or perform them on patients who would require them, in order to stroke his own bias of it being a "Mental illness". Hope he drinks a healthy cup full of Giardia in Mexico! I became a nutritionist partly just to spite him tbh. xD
Thank you for this video!
Clinical medicine is easy when treating patients that grew up outside western countries. These patients are not anal, follow directions, have no anxiety, and are grateful. Some patients in developed countries are pain in the arse, they have psychosomatic illness, and have depression or anxiety.
J. García I hope to God youre not a doctor with that attitude and lack of empathy.
If they have depression or anxiety refer them to a therapist
as amedical student and ex cancerpatient, I believe I have the answer. I'll post up a blog post on it soon - but first off - we come in with unrealistic expectations. we find we're being pushed around in this unfeeling machine, with pressure and stress to keep up with everything piling up; we barely get to treat our patients as people.
When I say unrealistic expectations, I mean that we're gonna be able to make a difference. first off, you need to know first off that you can't always save everyone. second.. you need to know that it is tough as hell.
but once you accept the former, and deal with the idea of loss and the idea that we're not really making a difference, patient after patient comes through and you can only help so many of them, and even after you treat one successfully, another one takes over... once you accept that you can't always make a difference, you are liberated.
but here's the thing. let me tell you... from being on both sides of the patient bed, the little things absolutely DO make a difference. and those are things you NEED to do.
The things I remember and thank my doctors most for weren't the treatments they gave me to get here, no what made my doctors special to ME was the times they talked about my fishing trip before starting a consult; the times they'd hold my hand as I was going to a scary biopsy while they were on their way to radiology anyways, that time one wrote a letter to the medical board to allow me to sit the medical entrance exam in my country that I'd missed due to chemotherapy.. those things changed my day, mitigated my fear... they changed my life!
and they took nothing much in the way of effort from them... but they mean everything to us.
take every chance you can to spread humanity in whatever way you can. by just being genuine and a good listener, through humour or through gestures like those.. these things absolutely do make a difference. regardless of the result, even if it's with a dying patient, you can change someone's while life around with those tiny actions.
and look... there are many ways to deal with burnout. but I argue the best one for many would be to take that opportunity and spread cheeriness or compassion, whatever the moment dictates, every chance you can. because if you do that, instead of going into work thinking, "oh God, another shift where I'll just be pushing papers, watching more people suffer and die and not being thanked for it", you'll be going into work saying whose day can I make, whose pain can I ease, whose life can I change! it's the difference between going to work a job everyday and being part of a profession.. one of healing and care.
cause in the end, in 20 years, we're gonna be replaced by robots anyways. may as well get that bedside manner up now :p post on it soon - but first off - we come in with unrealistic expectations. and then we find we're being pushed to huge pressure and stress to keep up with everything yet alone treat our patients as patients.
When I say unrealistic expectations, I mean that we're gonna be able to make a difference. first off, you need to know first off that you can't always save everyone. second.. you need to know that it is tough as hell.
but once you accept the former, and deal with the idea of loss and the idea that we're not really making a difference, patient after patient comes through and you can only help so many of them, and even after you treat one successfully, another one takes over... once you accept that you can't always make a difference, you are liberated.
but here's the thing. let me tell you... from being on both sides of the patient bed (as a med student and a cancer patient), the little things absolutely DO make a difference. The things I remember and thank my doctors most for weren't the treatments they gave me to get here, it was the times they talked about my fishing trip before starting a consult; the times they'd hold my hand as I was going to a scary biopsy while they were on their way to radiology anyways, that time one wrote a letter to the medical board to allow me to sit the medical entrance exam in my country that I'd missed due to chemotherapy.. those things changed my day, mitigated my fear and changed my life! and they took nothing much from them... but they mean everything to us.
take every chance you can to spread humanity in whatever way you can. by just being genuine and a good listener, through humour or through gestures like those.. these things absolutely do make a difference. regardless of the result, even if it's with a dying patient, you can change someone's while life around with those tiny actions.
and look... there are many ways to deal with burnout. but I argue the best one for many would be to take that opportunity and spread cheeriness or compassion, whatever the moment dictates, every chance you can. because if you do that, instead of going into work thinking, "oh God, another shift where I'll just be pushing papers, watching more people suffer and die and not being thanked for it", you'll be going into work saying whose day can I make, whose pain can I ease, whose life can I change! it's the difference between going to work a job everyday and being part of a profession.. one of healing and care.
cause in the end, in 20 years, we're gonna be replaced by robots anyways. may as well get that bedside manner up now :p
Wow. This is a dope statement!
Burnout is what led my dad to leave pediatric oncology after 30+ years and go into research. Once medicine 2.0 and the dawn of Epic came around, he decided it was time to retire. In retirement, he's actually finding more fulfillment by his involvement in volunteering and healthcare policy and reform.
For the ones that are diffident into go into medicine. How can someone assess (unbiased outlook) if they are smart enough to go into medicine?
I appreciate your channel I luv u r speaking up about this. It is a taking back the curtain on our society and how we go about healthcare. You r right about the data entry clerk thing.
Tho not going to feel sorry for achievement mindset Dr.’s sorry they can drop expectations
6:35 had me laughing out loud I did not expect that
Umm... What is that pink thang poking out of the sculpture on the wall?
U just answered the question I hv alwes wanted! Thank u ☺
I am a military officer of 11 years of experience, currently deployed, pulling 54 cr hrs of school work in my overseas year with a dream to enter medical school. Your talk is insightful, and I am surprised it did not get a lot more views. What are your recommendations from the get-go to reduce and alleviate the outcomes that you are describing? Like in any stressful profession there will be those who burn out. What do I consider different from the mainstream entering in to avoid repeating others mistakes? Thanks.
Thank you.
Sounds like software engineering in Silicon Valley.
I bet zdogg is on the golf course today
Awesome video ZDoggMD you are awesome!!!!!'n
coooool intro hit
Check out DoTerra Healthcare in Utah... I went to their conference last September and I have never seen such a happy bunch of docs... from PCP's to Ortho's, Psych's, etc. I'm an RN and it seems pretty amazing!
You're the man I wish I could work for you
Out of curiosity, how do other MDs look at a MD that leaves allopathic medicine in favor of alternative/ naturopathic healthcare?
TxNursePatti Watch this absolutely fascinating interview by ZDogg on the topic: th-cam.com/video/g1ZLL4swLMY/w-d-xo.html
Where can I send a letter of support?
Those anyone know where is this article? Will like to read it.
www.statnews.com/2017/05/24/doctors-burnout-online-community/
Can someone please tell me the name of one of these support groups?
" The dropout club"
love me some z dawgsssss
Living on $75k is virtually Buddhist???
For a MD . $350,000-500,000 in college debt. Kinda.
I met a lot of asshole premed students so my sympathies are fairly thin. Esp at Cal Berkeley. (Go 🐻 BTW)
Sounds like teacher burnout, only you guys put way more time, money, and effort in your degrees than I did into mine.
How many physicians go into medicine because they really truly care and have a passion to just help people?? Some do, but most go into it strictly for the money in the first place.With that kind of pay comes that kind of stress and responsibility..
so negative
if some medical student is watching this for fun, dude get yourself out before its too late
Are you a med student?
I'd rather Dr.s not 100% in it for the patient step away. Many industries need educated medical professionals, esp insurance and mail order pharmacies these days.
Name any profession that doesn’t have this problem. Education is similar. Anything the govt. takes over, it destroys.
every time I hear of someone I know who left clinical practice? I throw shade, no lie: true hateration.
noli nocere, mthrfckr