I said this on Carl's last Astartes II video: Everyone who knows how GW treated Syama Pedersen: "I wonder how Warhammer+ is gonna screw this up" This is likely a lot of his old stuff that GW nabbed courtesy of the contract he was caught up in; with 'new' stuff added from other people that will likely stick out like a sore thumb I mean I still hope it's good but yeah, hopefully with this we can put this awful chapter behind us and look forward to what Syama has planned next
@@reaps912 Assumptions on assumption. People thinking GW somehow screwed Syama over when he still working on them on Astartes 2 and other warhammer projects like Secret Level should be indicator he isn't "suffering from GW"
This is just pure speculation on my part but I'm guessing it's an ego thing on the side of GW. This guy have on his own made the most popular and best warhammer animation ever made, and perhaps more importantly he knows the ''feel'' of the Spacemarine something I think GW have lost over the years.
Not to be the um actually guy, but in the world of VFX a layout artist is the person that acts as a director cutting and making decisions on how the characters feel move and should act. He would be the one to layout the shots, and make the characters feel like they did in the first animation. That’s why in secret level it still felt so good even though it was a different animator. Syama layed out the shots in a way that made the marines feel weighty and gritty. He is in the right position as a layout artist.
I'm gonna guess that his first Astartes release was partially so utilitarian because of the limit of working solo. Give him a budget and he'll feel te need to add frill.
Yes this... layout artist is one of the most imporant jobs everything follows the layout artist vision and movement. Look at Petter Jackson in the making of the lord of the rings he was directing the artist in terms of what he wanted to see in layouts and would do very rough layouts of what he wanted to see, from movement to camera movements he had others do it as he is not a good artist and that is used to inform everything on the look in camera and feel of everything.
They should have just written the guy a blank check and said go save our franchise. But gw is gonna gw. Side note the scene of the marine is flying down the ice tunnel was probably one of the coolest things I’ve seen in a long time.
Was wondering why footage of his original announcement was repurposed (I.e. the storm giants replaced with Retributors) and made me worried something was up
@@ottovonbearsmark8876 Honestly, taking the time to make such a dense, fast moving piece with so much detail and it not even using the actual show's animations makes me more excited for the show since Syama obviously still views this as a labour of love enough to go above and beyond like this.
@@VallornDeathblade part of the worry is that a lot of it is from the teaser at the end of the original Astartes series. So it seems to be repurposed footage, that being said I’m still cautiously optimistic about it.
What is a company? It is a collection of people, trying to make a thing, as a career. Games Workshop has been working on their thing for 40 years. And then comes a guy, a nobody, who alone, just shoved their faces into the dirt. It is no surprise to me GW doesnt give him full control of anything, he makes them look like children drawing stick figures, because they are. They will of course try to copy his work, they did buy it after all, but they WILL not give him control because he absolutely destroyed their pride and egos.
I'd imagine they sort of feel the same about CA. Say what you want about how buggy total war games are, and how chincy they get on gameplay, but their animations and voice acting have set a new standard for those characters that GW will never be able to live up to. If you hear Karl Franz in the wrong voice or see Grimgor without that swagger from this day forward, you will cringe.
I instantly knew Pedersen didn't have creative control over the Secret Level episode the moment Titus bodychecked that buggy and it just turned into papermache without slowing him down. the creators had no grasp on physics.
You’ve started by misunderstanding what a Layout Artist does in CGA. They’re the ones who set up 90% of what you see on screen. They’re do the initial animation pass and set up the primary frames. As a result, they do most of the initial spatial design of the area as well, but they’re the ones who design all the shots in a scene. He’s not the animation director, more like a supervising animator in 2D terms. He’s got no evidence of being able to lead a team so I wouldn’t have just put him in charge either…
@ not quite sure what you mean. In this context he’d set up the scene in very broad strokes, then they would have key-framers do the finer animation and then fine tune that from what the computer spat out on the interstitials, under the director’s supervision. Broad strokes varies by studio, but generally, he would only have provided the layouts for a few shots or maybe a sequence. Corridor Digital thought he might’ve been directly responsible for the layouts and techniques used the glowing blood sequence. There are seven or so layout artists on the short, so he can’t have done a huge amount. There’s no way a guy who’s only ever listed two collaborators prior to this point would be given the whole thing to run, everything would bottleneck without experience delagating and handing off corrections. They were probably hoping to train and elevate him within a couple of projects but I guess he butted heads; it can be hard for independents to fit into a workflow. Either that or they just wanted to secure the Astartes brand, more associated with his short than the actual marines at this point, without suing him.
Sargon, a layout artist is responsible for setting up the initial visual structure of a scene, ensuring that all elements-characters, props, environments are correctly positioned and framed before animation begins. The layout artist's work helps establish the composition, camera movement, perspective, and timing of a shot, similar to how a cinematographer works in live-action filmmaking.
@@ThePonderingoftheorb Fair enough. It seems like a good position for him to go into as part of a team but yes, I understand it means we might not get that pure Astartes awesomeness. Still, this and that new Doom trailer were great. Hoping both lead on to excellent things!
@@FrostUK This Astartes II looked great because it is ALL OLD FOOTAGE made by Syama Pedersen alone. Nothing new was shown in that teaser. I´m betting they´re gonna sideline Syama and wokekify the whole thing. Stop being naive, Jesus Christ.
@@ThePonderingoftheorb in the video your concern is he was not doing enough and does not have enough control, so is the concern now that he has lost his touch or isn't doing what he truly wants to do? Astartes is great because of the feel and "cinematography" which is what he is still doing as far as we can tell.
'Hope is the first step on the path to disappointment'... Remember - GW hate the grimdark aesthetic, they dont even understand why people enjoy the lore. Try to find on their website where to learn about the factions. Each one gets a coupe of paragraphs, and thats it. Characters like Yarrick are long gone, and replaced with those for a modern audience. If you express these opinins to normies they call you a grifter or a tourist, I've spent about 15k on warhammer over ten years, and have been reading the lore for over 25 years. They do not care about us, or the lore
Lore constantly changes for all those 30 years, down to entire factions being rework, so it's not new. And Yarrick is gone literally to get reintoduced with new plastic model, is GW typical tactic so thinking her is getting replaced is laughable. 11th edition is going Orks as main baddies, that's when he gets his shine again
My main cope is that the Retributors in Astartes were a Pederson-original Imperial Fist successor chapter, and their unification of purpose and efficiency of the siege against the renegade ship is likely a result of the Imperial Fist’s temperament. Ultramarines (as seen in Secret Level and Space Marine 2, Titus especially) tend to be more experimental and take calculated risks with more extravagance to their tactics, such as when you drop a building on a Hive Tyrant in a side mission. That said, I am concerned that Pederson is not at the helm.
But surely they all move the same in power armor. I do agree with you, different tactics for different chapters, etc. and the Retributor impulsors are supposed to be uber efficient. But the movement in Secret Level just doesn't look good, it looks like a video game cut scene. The various chapters in the Astartes II trailer all move beautifully, look how cumbrous yet manageable the heavy bolter is, for example.
@@MrScovanx >But surely they all move the same in power armor If you think a White Scar fights the same as an Imperial Fist, I've got a bridge to sell you.
@@matrix3509 That and Salamanders though transhumans are slower than most space marines due to the gravity of their planet. Not all space marines are created equally
@@Shadowdrag00n You've got to be legit brain dead to look at (for example) the Space Wolves and Raven Guard and then conclude "They all fight the same, bro."
@@matrix3509 If you think physics is different for white scars than it is for imp fists, then I wouldn't even want to walk over your bridge, let alone buy it. But, of course, you didn't pay any attention to the rest of my comment, or get at the point that I'm making. If you think Secret Level animations were as good as Astartes, then I'm guessing you're doing your part to keep funco pops in business.
As much as I agree with your analysis with Secret Levels, I think it should also be made clear that a poor emulation of Syama Pedersen's style is still much better than most other 3D work. While I hope that he has more control over Astartes II and is able to direct in some capacity, the fact that Secret Levels turned out the way it did (while also keeping in mind it was made by a studio with their own style and Syama would've been an advisor at best) is a testament to Syama and hopefully a similar quality can remain even if it sacrifices some efficiency for "badassity"
It's as you say, the difference in the motion is night and day. It's the cold, calculating, emotionless efficiency. Never stopping, always moving forward, unrelenting. Moving quickly but cautiously, with a clear plan. Their reactions to everything that happens around them is the result of exhaustive training, not just instinct.
TBF in specifically the "economy of movement" argument. Lots of space marine chapters are different in their approach to combat and how they feel about glory hounding. I feel like Ultra Marines are somewhere in the middle whereas the Retributors seem very clinical and attempting to be hyper efficient. Which is one of the reasons they looked so incredible in the original Astartes. Like many comments have noted though, GW loves to shoot themselves in the foot. So I hope the second iteration still has Syama's touch, but who knows with frigging GW
Thought the same thing. Read about a chapter a whe back that was very tribal, and killed their enemies as flashy as possible to be worthy to their mates. Knowing GW though, it's probably not that intricate.
I think the statement was more in regard to the difference in animation style, astartes had a particular way of setting up scenes and ''feel'' of the space marines in otherwords secret levels scenes and space marines were different so perhaps not the same guy in charge. Another point is that there is a big difference between a scene being made to look badass and the space marine doing something to look badass
For an example of economy of motion, think of the scene in Astartes I where the space marine stabs the man who was sneaking up on him. It's at about the 3-minute mark. The space marine turns his head when he hears the sneaker, grabs his knife, rams it backward into the sneaker. Every movement is precise and mechanical, not a millimeter of movement more than was required. No flourish. It's just his job. He's doing a job.
Marines have personality. They are not mindless automotons. Some are cold and calculating. Some are flashy, some bold, some reserved, some tactical... Same goes for squads, some can be 100 cohesive, while others can have difficulties working together.
@@MrScovanx Marines vary widely in terms of size, best example that comes to mind is in brothers of the snake where Priad describes some members of his squad as being well in excess of 7 feet, whereas several are just on the upper end of 6 feet. Also, two men being roughly equivalent in size doesn’t mean they’ll move the same. If you’ve ever played any competitive sport, or spent any amount of time watching them, that’d be pretty apparent.
yes, reading the GW article after seeing the trailer was a gut-punch for me. everything we see in the trailer looks amazing and makes me want so see more. I'd be happy with a 10-15 minute episode about each of those engagements, but we'll probably see nothing of them. I think what me might be getting is a Deathwatch episode featuring one member of each of the chapters that were showcased in the trailer, which feels like a cop-out. with that said, I wouldn't expect Astartes 2 to be more than 15 minutes long. the first one took more than 2 years to make. I'm not sure what resources GW is allocating on this project, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did the whole thing all by himself again. if GW was smart, they'd give him a whole team and full creative control, and tell him to make a feature length film to be released in cinemas, but I doubt that would ever happen.
From my understanding it was already explained was the clips were all to show a scene of the members from the Kill team that the show would be focused around. With the last terminator shot having the death watch inquisition symbol on its forehead.
Bean-counters hate giving up control. It makes them anxious, especially when the person isn't part of their orthodoxy. That is why there are so few mainstream auteurs these days, and the ones we do have were already established before the current order.
The original project was made by Pedersen alone and done with a very small budget so I think it is possible that the lack of “animation” is due to aforementioned factors rather than him being sidelined in secret level or Astartes 2. I personally loved the secret level episode and I thought that it had Pedersen’s fingerprints all over it. That being said GW seldom misses a chance to shoot themselves in the foot.
Sorry Carl, but you simply do not understand the difference between the Ultrasmurfs and an Imperial Fist successor chapter like the Retributors. The Smurfs are defined by style over substance. The wasted movements and theatrics are exactly what made Secret Level so perfect, and an Ultramarine without those things is simply a cosplayer. Nobody except Pedersen could have so perfectly captured the Smurfs' defining trait without dialogue. The economy of movement in Astartes was so good precisely because its how a Fist successor would actually fight, not because "Space Marines are all consummate professionals that all fight the same" or some shit. If Astartes had featured Space Wolves and had otherwise been exactly the same, then it would have been trash and completely pointless, because it would have demonstrated a complete misunderstanding of the Chapter.
I think you are correct about Astartes, though regarding of Secret Level I think the difference in style is intentional. Not only there seemed to be similarities between Secret Level episodes, the Space Marine episode was for the game which you know is about flashy parries and melee finishers.
I think Pedersen's design sensibilities in digital are as significant as Blanche's on canvas and Goodwin's in plastic -- but modern geedubs would rather have video game cut scene level animation. No depiction of space marines in animation can match his. None. The secret level stuff looked like machinima.
You're absolutely right. And hes spot on for the digital media age. I understand why GW wants to play it safe and mid, since that secret level episode already peaks at most consumers can aesthetically appreciate. But I literally can't understand the sheer persistence, the lies and efforts they pulled just to reject his artistic influence and promote mediocrity, even on the most subtle, non-monetary levels. Like it doesnt cost money to let marines have cleaner armour surfaces or utilitarian movements. It doesnt look like corporate action but rather a childish beef and thats actually what i suspect. Some butthurt incompetent art manager at HQ fighting for the wheel.
I learned a new word the other day and I think it applies to the different approaches to animation styles we are seeing. Sprezzatura. Italian word for making something look absolutely effortless. Pedersen's work seems to have this in spades. Space Marine's don't need big flashy combat move sets.
It wholly depends upon the particular Chapter being depicted. I for one wasn't opposed to the stupid over the top shit in Secret Level because the Smurfs are absolutely defined by style over substance and "HONOR AND DUTY, BRUVAS!" They are all about creating as big a scene as possible because Smurfs are all attention whores. Imperial Fists (and their successor chapters) are defined by utter professionalism and being as lethal possible with the least amount of effort expended. Economy of movement turned up to 11. They just do their jobs and leave. This is why both Astartes and Secret Level work so well, because they capture their respective chapter's personalities perfectly. A Smurf behaving with the same level of professionalism as a Fist successor would make absolutely no sense. Nobody wants to see a Salamander without a flamer in their hands, or a Raven Guard or White Scar bogged down in trench warfare.
Being able to draw and articulate such concise opinions regarding economy-of-movement from a montage of 1-second clips mashed together (in the astartes 2 teaser) takes a level of microscopic observation very few people possess.
I think we have little worry about. Syama clearly left an impression on GW for Secret Level. There was little dialogue, fairly no nonsense vibes from the marines, they went in and fulfilled their duty. I would imagine a pure GW secret level (meaning no Astartes influence) would have looked a lot more like Space Marine 2 with considerably more pageantry. Has anyone put a brother counter in that game yet? It's a lot higher than secret level. Life is about compromise, GW is about making questionable decisions, but given Secret Level I would guess they're negotiating the balance between Syama's Astartes and their vision. They are the original artists after all, but given that the Retributors are canon, Syama made a bigger impact than anyone could have imagined.
As someone who was drawn in by Astartes, nothing blows me off more than watching the Space Marines (or pretty much any force of the Imperium) be so reckless and inefficient. The downfall of mankind is not an excuse for this, if anything they should want to be more efficient to conserve resources.
A layout artist is the guy in charge with deciding the composition, the movement of the characters, where the camera moves etc, basically a story board artist in 3D animation. So a lot of these shots and movements from Secret Level were directed BY him. Also keep in mind those Marines in Secret Level were Ultramarines, some of the most flashy Marines out there, they are a loud and victorious chapter that boast about their accomplishments and victories constantly. Malum Caedo and his taunts to the heretics, Gadriel and Chairon having their little competition to see who gets the most kills. And these are recent/small examples, so it is perfectly in character for them to be swinging, flipping their weapons and doing these movements that may seem unnecessary, hell I personally found them to be too professional for Ultramarines (not saying that as a bad thing, I lOVED that scene). The thing is that a lot of marine chapters are like that, I don't even want to imagine the Black Templars, the difference is that the Retributers (Syama's chapter) were specifically described as a pragmatic no-nonsense chapter that just gets the job done, so again it fits their character. Marines are still humans and like humans they have different personalities and cultures. I somewhat get your concern of what could come from this show which is completely understandible and fair but I personally disagreed with these points.
It's really disappointing to see GW just locking the dude in golden hand cuffs. That and taking every opportunity to piss away any good will form long-term fans.
Given what GW does and what we've seen from his stuff, and their tipoff that they've repurposed this into "backstory" pretty much betrays the rift. It's the rift people have speculated from the first. He doesn't like Primaris and GW demands them. And they're probably hoping to red herring his fans who don't like Primaris in. I got excited as I noted on the last video, but I'm glad I was going to wait and see. And now I'm sure.
Some of the footage looks like it was stolen from the end of the original short. The original creator gave after the actual video of what he wanted to do next.
Very good point, let’s hope that you are mostly right but just in an effort to make the Astartes a little less perfect so we can introduce the Custodies
After re watching Astartes, I believe you're spot on about Secret Level. It was clearly story-boarded by Syama, but he had no hand in its animation. I *pray* GW just LETS HIM COOK with Astartes II.
Different chapters will have different feels. The Retributors are gonna move differently from the Black Templars who will move differently from the Space Wolves. They're not all precise and economic in their movements. I think you're spot on with the Secret Level episode though. The full stops after a swing and long pauses between blows definitely mired them in an air of trying to look "flashy" rather than deadly. Sort of like they're looking at the audience after every move to make sure we didn't miss anything.
The lore explanation as to why the astartes 1 space marines fought differently from the ultra marines in secret level is because they actually fight differently. The marines in astartes are canonically mocked by other chapters for not being glorious enough
I dont want to agree, but like you say, i have that itching nagging feeling that something isn't quite right. I hope the final production is worth every body is waiting for.
I'm sick of marine-wank. 40k is a massive setting that is squandered by GWs myopic focus on the same handful of elements over and over again. I enjoyed astartes because it was a one-off masterwork by a single passionate guy. Sentencing that same guy to the bolter porn mines for the next century is an unmitigated tragedy.
The difference between Astartes and Secret level is tone. One is a surgical rebel suppression operation. The other is almost a mythic dark fantasy quest to stop a dark sorcerer in service to a daemon of terrible power.
If you look at the video that special effects guys Corridor Crew did on it they explained that the Astartes guy did the basic animation and the polishing was left to others
I believe you may be underestimating the importance of layouts in 3D animation, Carl. The layout typically defines the movement (as well as framing, lighting, camera movement, etc). The layout artists take the storyboards and create an animation that is essentially close to the final product minus a lot of fine detail. It is a good position for Peterson if he has to work within a team.
AAA 3D guy here. Layout artists are basically the guys who set up the shots, blocking, camera movements, etc for shots. Basically in charge of everything you actually see on screen and the most basic feel of the work. Given how closely the asset/art direction, lighting, animation/storyboarding, sound, editing and overall direction is to Astartes, I have zero doubts Pederson was the head honcho when it came to direction. That was his work from top to bottom. The thing is with TV, there's all sorts of absurd union rules relating to creditation. Plus whatever arbitrary nonsense is in the contracts for the show and everyone working on it. I don't work in TV animation but I expect he was the big man in charge but union rules only allowed him one minor credit for not being in the club. You see that with VA's or actors all the time on union jobs. Plus conctractual titles for producers, that sort of thing. Half of the film buisness is playing ball with the unions, fighting for titles, credits etc. And he's not part of the game so he would've just gotten steamrolled out of the way, but is also the protected chosen creator by the studio so still gets to work on it despite not playing the internal clout game. Given how early they've announced it, made his direction the face of the brand for something as big as Next-Level and the mere fact that they re-used the Astartes II teaser shots, front and centre. I think they know what they have and are letting the guy do his thing. I actually have faith in this one.
Before you start... Did you notice it's a LOT of characters and settings? Far too many to likely be fleshed out sufficiently in SEVERAL full films worth of content?
I'm sad to say i think you are right. It seems GW learned from astartes but have failed to recreate what makes it magical. Their animations look better. However, they totally missed the fuild mechanical movement and driven holy purpose.
The difference between how the Astartes move may just be down to their chapter. IIRC the Astartes in Astartes were a homebrew chapter of his called the Retributors who had a focus on simplicity
It's perfectly reasonable to have reservations after the dude was literally (not literally) kidnapped by GW and forced to work in their animation dungeon.
2:20 the Retributors in their lore explains they are extremely utilitarian and efficient. Their uniforms are flat grey and undecorated. The ultramarines are ultramarines, i expected them to fight the way they did in secret level
plucking fine hairs is how you make money as a lawyer. GW has been abusing the good will of their customers for too long i will not stand for it any longer. TOO long have we gotten bad 40k adaptations now even the company is pushing these half arsed animations just to make some pennies.
I'm thinking the Secret Level may be captured more of the video game, with the "showy" "glory-kills" and for flare action as what most players would expect as in the game.
Not seeing any of the stuff you are saying about the Secret Level episode, you are completely ignoring the fact they are using melee weapons in SL episode while they were using only ranged weapons in the original Astartes, different situation and different kind of enemy, if anything it's more professional to not waste ammo on an enemy you can easily slay with an axe swing or a punch with minimal risk (which is exactly what they do in SL), I don't see any wasteful movements either like you claim, not sure if you are watching the same episode or not, come on now!!!
To be fair to Secret Level, Tidus is a character already - his movements had flair and badassery. The clinal efficiency of Astartes wouldn't be true to his character.
I think you've hit the nail on the head with identifying this economy of motion and conservation of energy, there's real, absolutely _ruthless_ utilitarian efficiency. Something nagged me about the Secret Level video, part of me knew this wasn't quite as intense as the original Astartes, but it was a tiny enough difference that it was very difficult to tell.
Fulgrim Lot is the only one I can think of who would try to look badass. Which is fitting. Generally, the rest of the marines want to be efficient in killing, wasting ammo is a big nope.
I was thinking the exact same thing yesterday. Im listening to the audiobook of I Am Slaughter and the author has some of the marines going all John Woo and dropping weapons and catching them and flipping around and it's just all wrong. Marines do not need to be showy, they need to be efficient. BUT There may be chapter differences in this - the difference between the fighting styles of Lucius of the Emperors Children and Loken of the Luna Wolves when they duel. World Eaters don't fight in the same way as Imperial Fists, so yes, I absolutely prefer the combat in the original Astartes, and I think all the combat should be small variations to allow for character, but it should be mostly efficiency because that is the standard.
I would say that the movement of a space marine would depend on legion / chapter. Iron fists would have the economy of movement you are talking about. But space wolves would definitely be unrefind in movement.
I agree with your take on the Secret Level episode, I didn't like how the marines move right from the start. However I think you are wrong in your assumptions about Astarte's 2, it is about a Deathwatch Kill team and the trailer is showcasing the 5 members of the kill team by showing clips of their past lives before induction into the Deathwatch. One of them is from his custom chapter from Astartes (The Retributors) and the others are The Scythes of the Emperor, Blood Angels, The Mortificators and The Sons of Medusa. There is no reason to think Syama is not in control of it and the fact he had a small role in secret Level only suggests to me that he is hard at work on Astartes and was quite busy at the time.
This is dumb. A few weeks ago, you were singing the praises of Secret Level on almost all levels. Pedersen's work on Astartes still very much inspired and informed what Amazon did, even though he wasn't in charge of the project. GW hired him as an animator, they never said anything about him leading any projects. Amazon has a million times the budget GW does, so they can afford to make a flashier, more over the top animation than one guy can, which is very fitting of the style of 40K in general. I am very confident Astartes II is going to be super cool. Yes, they're repurposing his existing work to tell a new story about a Deathwatch kill team. What they've shown so far is a snapshot of the lives of the members of that kill team to build hype. Astartes II is coming out in 2026. They didn't even specify when, so it could be like November 2026, so the footage likely isnt trailer ready yet. Just breathe. We're going to get a very cool animation. Please can we stop dooming about stuff before we've seen a single frame from the show itself? This is an exhausting trend on TH-cam.
This, ive been saying the Secret Level is just another superhero episode larping as Spacemarine Primaris canonically has zero combat experience compares to the Firstborn, so GW felt the need to show them off like this, still a joke, tbh
So you’re concerned it doesn’t look like it was made by one guy with limited time and limited money who had to be efficient with every frame? I guess struggling artists made the best art.
Never underestimate Games Workshop's ability to fuck things up.
I said this on Carl's last Astartes II video:
Everyone who knows how GW treated Syama Pedersen: "I wonder how Warhammer+ is gonna screw this up"
This is likely a lot of his old stuff that GW nabbed courtesy of the contract he was caught up in; with 'new' stuff added from other people that will likely stick out like a sore thumb
I mean I still hope it's good but yeah, hopefully with this we can put this awful chapter behind us and look forward to what Syama has planned next
I was gonna say that. 😹
@@reaps912 Assumptions on assumption. People thinking GW somehow screwed Syama over when he still working on them on Astartes 2 and other warhammer projects like Secret Level should be indicator he isn't "suffering from GW"
Zip up when you're done bro @ruslanhoncharenko2179
This is just pure speculation on my part but I'm guessing it's an ego thing on the side of GW. This guy have on his own made the most popular and best warhammer animation ever made, and perhaps more importantly he knows the ''feel'' of the Spacemarine something I think GW have lost over the years.
i've been thinking the same thing
Not to be the um actually guy, but in the world of VFX a layout artist is the person that acts as a director cutting and making decisions on how the characters feel move and should act. He would be the one to layout the shots, and make the characters feel like they did in the first animation. That’s why in secret level it still felt so good even though it was a different animator. Syama layed out the shots in a way that made the marines feel weighty and gritty. He is in the right position as a layout artist.
I'm gonna guess that his first Astartes release was partially so utilitarian because of the limit of working solo. Give him a budget and he'll feel te need to add frill.
Yes this... layout artist is one of the most imporant jobs everything follows the layout artist vision and movement. Look at Petter Jackson in the making of the lord of the rings he was directing the artist in terms of what he wanted to see in layouts and would do very rough layouts of what he wanted to see, from movement to camera movements he had others do it as he is not a good artist and that is used to inform everything on the look in camera and feel of everything.
Corridor Crew have a good video on it
Glad someone clarified this!
was about to comment the same thing
They should have just written the guy a blank check and said go save our franchise. But gw is gonna gw. Side note the scene of the marine is flying down the ice tunnel was probably one of the coolest things I’ve seen in a long time.
having female custodes was more important apperantly
Was wondering why footage of his original announcement was repurposed (I.e. the storm giants replaced with Retributors) and made me worried something was up
Lamenter escaped his fate.... that's heresy.
@ShishouDzukiZaManako As a lamenters player, I wasn't surprised.
Turns out that the footage shown in the teaser has nothing to do with the final product. That's what we get for getting our hopes up.
It doesn’t have nothing to do with it, it seems to be related to the characters that will be in the show, just not clips from the actual show.
@@ottovonbearsmark8876 Honestly, taking the time to make such a dense, fast moving piece with so much detail and it not even using the actual show's animations makes me more excited for the show since Syama obviously still views this as a labour of love enough to go above and beyond like this.
@@VallornDeathblade part of the worry is that a lot of it is from the teaser at the end of the original Astartes series. So it seems to be repurposed footage, that being said I’m still cautiously optimistic about it.
We are gonna get shitty primaries Deathwatch
@ He seems to really love the OG angry vox grill marines so I'm hoping that GW just let him make whatever he wants.
first red flag - Warhammer +
What is a company? It is a collection of people, trying to make a thing, as a career.
Games Workshop has been working on their thing for 40 years. And then comes a guy, a nobody, who alone, just shoved their faces into the dirt.
It is no surprise to me GW doesnt give him full control of anything, he makes them look like children drawing stick figures, because they are.
They will of course try to copy his work, they did buy it after all, but they WILL not give him control because he absolutely destroyed their pride and egos.
I'd imagine they sort of feel the same about CA. Say what you want about how buggy total war games are, and how chincy they get on gameplay, but their animations and voice acting have set a new standard for those characters that GW will never be able to live up to. If you hear Karl Franz in the wrong voice or see Grimgor without that swagger from this day forward, you will cringe.
th-cam.com/video/gvSISkAaSLQ/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Engagingbear
I instantly knew Pedersen didn't have creative control over the Secret Level episode the moment Titus bodychecked that buggy and it just turned into papermache without slowing him down. the creators had no grasp on physics.
Yes, that was truly dumb!
Looked awesome, but that scene made me wonder about mass and structural integrity of the vehicle.
Crash you!!!! RAAAAAAAAAGHHH!!!!!!! *ogryn bullrush intensifies*
It looked cool. The backward grip on the chainsword looks inefficient, awkward, and uncool.
@@nikodimus86It looks awesome if you're 12.
Remember when Space Marines would scream, For the Emperor, Charge, Eat Boltgun etc...
not Titus
You’ve started by misunderstanding what a Layout Artist does in CGA.
They’re the ones who set up 90% of what you see on screen. They’re do the initial animation pass and set up the primary frames.
As a result, they do most of the initial spatial design of the area as well, but they’re the ones who design all the shots in a scene.
He’s not the animation director, more like a supervising animator in 2D terms. He’s got no evidence of being able to lead a team so I wouldn’t have just put him in charge either…
redditspaced appeal to authority is no excuse to deliberately spurn a directorship for an auteur.
What are the odds they'll pushback against Pedersen's direction?
@ not quite sure what you mean.
In this context he’d set up the scene in very broad strokes, then they would have key-framers do the finer animation and then fine tune that from what the computer spat out on the interstitials, under the director’s supervision.
Broad strokes varies by studio, but generally, he would only have provided the layouts for a few shots or maybe a sequence. Corridor Digital thought he might’ve been directly responsible for the layouts and techniques used the glowing blood sequence. There are seven or so layout artists on the short, so he can’t have done a huge amount.
There’s no way a guy who’s only ever listed two collaborators prior to this point would be given the whole thing to run, everything would bottleneck without experience delagating and handing off corrections. They were probably hoping to train and elevate him within a couple of projects but I guess he butted heads; it can be hard for independents to fit into a workflow. Either that or they just wanted to secure the Astartes brand, more associated with his short than the actual marines at this point, without suing him.
I was going to say, lay out artist is still a very influential position. It is unfortunate that he doesn't have full control.
Trailers can be deceiving. And GW is not worthy of anyone’s trust.
agree, trailers have always been deceiving, especially for gaming nowaday, 40k is no different
I never get my hopes up when it comes to anything from GW.
They are a soulless corp just like the rest.
Sargon, a layout artist is responsible for setting up the initial visual structure of a scene, ensuring that all elements-characters, props, environments are correctly positioned and framed before animation begins. The layout artist's work helps establish the composition, camera movement, perspective, and timing of a shot, similar to how a cinematographer works in live-action filmmaking.
Yeah that's my concern.
"Do it this way"
We have been told by higher ups to do not that.
@@ThePonderingoftheorb Fair enough. It seems like a good position for him to go into as part of a team but yes, I understand it means we might not get that pure Astartes awesomeness. Still, this and that new Doom trailer were great. Hoping both lead on to excellent things!
@@FrostUK This Astartes II looked great because it is ALL OLD FOOTAGE made by Syama Pedersen alone. Nothing new was shown in that teaser. I´m betting they´re gonna sideline Syama and wokekify the whole thing. Stop being naive, Jesus Christ.
@@ThePonderingoftheorb in the video your concern is he was not doing enough and does not have enough control, so is the concern now that he has lost his touch or isn't doing what he truly wants to do? Astartes is great because of the feel and "cinematography" which is what he is still doing as far as we can tell.
Everybody knows the real astartes II trailer was at the end of astartes 1.
'Hope is the first step on the path to disappointment'... Remember - GW hate the grimdark aesthetic, they dont even understand why people enjoy the lore.
Try to find on their website where to learn about the factions. Each one gets a coupe of paragraphs, and thats it.
Characters like Yarrick are long gone, and replaced with those for a modern audience.
If you express these opinins to normies they call you a grifter or a tourist, I've spent about 15k on warhammer over ten years, and have been reading the lore for over 25 years.
They do not care about us, or the lore
Lore constantly changes for all those 30 years, down to entire factions being rework, so it's not new. And Yarrick is gone literally to get reintoduced with new plastic model, is GW typical tactic so thinking her is getting replaced is laughable. 11th edition is going Orks as main baddies, that's when he gets his shine again
Syama Pedersen is in golden handcuffs and we're getting bait and switched? Is it over, bros?
They literally say Syame and them been working on Astartes 2 all this time, why do you think he postest Astartes 2 trailer on his personal channel?
My main cope is that the Retributors in Astartes were a Pederson-original Imperial Fist successor chapter, and their unification of purpose and efficiency of the siege against the renegade ship is likely a result of the Imperial Fist’s temperament. Ultramarines (as seen in Secret Level and Space Marine 2, Titus especially) tend to be more experimental and take calculated risks with more extravagance to their tactics, such as when you drop a building on a Hive Tyrant in a side mission.
That said, I am concerned that Pederson is not at the helm.
But surely they all move the same in power armor. I do agree with you, different tactics for different chapters, etc. and the Retributor impulsors are supposed to be uber efficient. But the movement in Secret Level just doesn't look good, it looks like a video game cut scene.
The various chapters in the Astartes II trailer all move beautifully, look how cumbrous yet manageable the heavy bolter is, for example.
@@MrScovanx >But surely they all move the same in power armor
If you think a White Scar fights the same as an Imperial Fist, I've got a bridge to sell you.
@@matrix3509 That and Salamanders though transhumans are slower than most space marines due to the gravity of their planet. Not all space marines are created equally
@@Shadowdrag00n You've got to be legit brain dead to look at (for example) the Space Wolves and Raven Guard and then conclude "They all fight the same, bro."
@@matrix3509 If you think physics is different for white scars than it is for imp fists, then I wouldn't even want to walk over your bridge, let alone buy it.
But, of course, you didn't pay any attention to the rest of my comment, or get at the point that I'm making. If you think Secret Level animations were as good as Astartes, then I'm guessing you're doing your part to keep funco pops in business.
As much as I agree with your analysis with Secret Levels, I think it should also be made clear that a poor emulation of Syama Pedersen's style is still much better than most other 3D work.
While I hope that he has more control over Astartes II and is able to direct in some capacity, the fact that Secret Levels turned out the way it did (while also keeping in mind it was made by a studio with their own style and Syama would've been an advisor at best) is a testament to Syama and hopefully a similar quality can remain even if it sacrifices some efficiency for "badassity"
It's as you say, the difference in the motion is night and day. It's the cold, calculating, emotionless efficiency. Never stopping, always moving forward, unrelenting. Moving quickly but cautiously, with a clear plan. Their reactions to everything that happens around them is the result of exhaustive training, not just instinct.
TBF in specifically the "economy of movement" argument. Lots of space marine chapters are different in their approach to combat and how they feel about glory hounding. I feel like Ultra Marines are somewhere in the middle whereas the Retributors seem very clinical and attempting to be hyper efficient. Which is one of the reasons they looked so incredible in the original Astartes. Like many comments have noted though, GW loves to shoot themselves in the foot. So I hope the second iteration still has Syama's touch, but who knows with frigging GW
Thought the same thing. Read about a chapter a whe back that was very tribal, and killed their enemies as flashy as possible to be worthy to their mates. Knowing GW though, it's probably not that intricate.
I think the statement was more in regard to the difference in animation style, astartes had a particular way of setting up scenes and ''feel'' of the space marines in otherwords secret levels scenes and space marines were different so perhaps not the same guy in charge. Another point is that there is a big difference between a scene being made to look badass and the space marine doing something to look badass
For an example of economy of motion, think of the scene in Astartes I where the space marine stabs the man who was sneaking up on him. It's at about the 3-minute mark. The space marine turns his head when he hears the sneaker, grabs his knife, rams it backward into the sneaker. Every movement is precise and mechanical, not a millimeter of movement more than was required. No flourish. It's just his job. He's doing a job.
Your lack of FAITH has been noted by the Inquisition.
I find that, DISTURBING! OH NO SORRY WRONG FRANCHISE! dont purge me daddy!
Marines have personality. They are not mindless automotons. Some are cold and calculating. Some are flashy, some bold, some reserved, some tactical...
Same goes for squads, some can be 100 cohesive, while others can have difficulties working together.
But power armor is power armor, physics is physics....
@@MrScovanx Marines vary widely in terms of size, best example that comes to mind is in brothers of the snake where Priad describes some members of his squad as being well in excess of 7 feet, whereas several are just on the upper end of 6 feet. Also, two men being roughly equivalent in size doesn’t mean they’ll move the same. If you’ve ever played any competitive sport, or spent any amount of time watching them, that’d be pretty apparent.
yes, reading the GW article after seeing the trailer was a gut-punch for me. everything we see in the trailer looks amazing and makes me want so see more. I'd be happy with a 10-15 minute episode about each of those engagements, but we'll probably see nothing of them.
I think what me might be getting is a Deathwatch episode featuring one member of each of the chapters that were showcased in the trailer, which feels like a cop-out.
with that said, I wouldn't expect Astartes 2 to be more than 15 minutes long. the first one took more than 2 years to make. I'm not sure what resources GW is allocating on this project, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did the whole thing all by himself again.
if GW was smart, they'd give him a whole team and full creative control, and tell him to make a feature length film to be released in cinemas, but I doubt that would ever happen.
From my understanding it was already explained was the clips were all to show a scene of the members from the Kill team that the show would be focused around. With the last terminator shot having the death watch inquisition symbol on its forehead.
Bean-counters hate giving up control. It makes them anxious, especially when the person isn't part of their orthodoxy. That is why there are so few mainstream auteurs these days, and the ones we do have were already established before the current order.
Astartes: Unstoppable Force, frightening, lethal.
Secret Level: Do an Axe flip, swag.
.... Until they were stopped by an angry ball? lol
have you read any of the books? 80% of them are highly competitice show offs
Don't forget in Secret Level those are blueberries
Dude hasn't read the books
Sounds like you are on the money.
The original project was made by Pedersen alone and done with a very small budget so I think it is possible that the lack of “animation” is due to aforementioned factors rather than him being sidelined in secret level or Astartes 2.
I personally loved the secret level episode and I thought that it had Pedersen’s fingerprints all over it.
That being said GW seldom misses a chance to shoot themselves in the foot.
Absolutely, the camera angles and whatnot had his feel.
Sorry Carl, but you simply do not understand the difference between the Ultrasmurfs and an Imperial Fist successor chapter like the Retributors. The Smurfs are defined by style over substance. The wasted movements and theatrics are exactly what made Secret Level so perfect, and an Ultramarine without those things is simply a cosplayer. Nobody except Pedersen could have so perfectly captured the Smurfs' defining trait without dialogue.
The economy of movement in Astartes was so good precisely because its how a Fist successor would actually fight, not because "Space Marines are all consummate professionals that all fight the same" or some shit.
If Astartes had featured Space Wolves and had otherwise been exactly the same, then it would have been trash and completely pointless, because it would have demonstrated a complete misunderstanding of the Chapter.
This guy gets it
Now I really, REALLY want to see how Pedersen animate that Khornate Chaos marine fight.
Well that's just your personal take, and its a bad one at that.
@@BallerLarva Sorry, I missed the part where I give a fuck what you think.
I think you are correct about Astartes, though regarding of Secret Level I think the difference in style is intentional. Not only there seemed to be similarities between Secret Level episodes, the Space Marine episode was for the game which you know is about flashy parries and melee finishers.
It really sounded like you and Arch were talking yourself out of liking the trailer in real-time.
Let’s show the fans something that we aren’t going to do.
Makes perfect sense……
I think Pedersen's design sensibilities in digital are as significant as Blanche's on canvas and Goodwin's in plastic -- but modern geedubs would rather have video game cut scene level animation.
No depiction of space marines in animation can match his. None. The secret level stuff looked like machinima.
You're absolutely right. And hes spot on for the digital media age.
I understand why GW wants to play it safe and mid, since that secret level episode already peaks at most consumers can aesthetically appreciate.
But I literally can't understand the sheer persistence, the lies and efforts they pulled just to reject his artistic influence and promote mediocrity, even on the most subtle, non-monetary levels. Like it doesnt cost money to let marines have cleaner armour surfaces or utilitarian movements. It doesnt look like corporate action but rather a childish beef and thats actually what i suspect. Some butthurt incompetent art manager at HQ fighting for the wheel.
I learned a new word the other day and I think it applies to the different approaches to animation styles we are seeing.
Sprezzatura. Italian word for making something look absolutely effortless. Pedersen's work seems to have this in spades. Space Marine's don't need big flashy combat move sets.
It wholly depends upon the particular Chapter being depicted. I for one wasn't opposed to the stupid over the top shit in Secret Level because the Smurfs are absolutely defined by style over substance and "HONOR AND DUTY, BRUVAS!" They are all about creating as big a scene as possible because Smurfs are all attention whores.
Imperial Fists (and their successor chapters) are defined by utter professionalism and being as lethal possible with the least amount of effort expended. Economy of movement turned up to 11. They just do their jobs and leave.
This is why both Astartes and Secret Level work so well, because they capture their respective chapter's personalities perfectly. A Smurf behaving with the same level of professionalism as a Fist successor would make absolutely no sense.
Nobody wants to see a Salamander without a flamer in their hands, or a Raven Guard or White Scar bogged down in trench warfare.
Carl, we have not yet exited the "Bait and Switch," era.
Being able to draw and articulate such concise opinions regarding economy-of-movement from a montage of 1-second clips mashed together (in the astartes 2 teaser) takes a level of microscopic observation very few people possess.
"Bait and switch." That's what we get for being giddy about ANYTHING these days. JFC.
You had one job GW, one job... All you had to do was giving Pedersen money and a team (if needed). The sit back and watch the magic happen...
Carl, I am a huge Lotus Eaters fan and am so happy to have discovered this channel.
I think we have little worry about. Syama clearly left an impression on GW for Secret Level. There was little dialogue, fairly no nonsense vibes from the marines, they went in and fulfilled their duty. I would imagine a pure GW secret level (meaning no Astartes influence) would have looked a lot more like Space Marine 2 with considerably more pageantry. Has anyone put a brother counter in that game yet? It's a lot higher than secret level.
Life is about compromise, GW is about making questionable decisions, but given Secret Level I would guess they're negotiating the balance between Syama's Astartes and their vision. They are the original artists after all, but given that the Retributors are canon, Syama made a bigger impact than anyone could have imagined.
As someone who was drawn in by Astartes, nothing blows me off more than watching the Space Marines (or pretty much any force of the Imperium) be so reckless and inefficient. The downfall of mankind is not an excuse for this, if anything they should want to be more efficient to conserve resources.
Exactly this, innovation isn't bad it's inefficient until it is efficient the imperium will stick to what works.
A layout artist is the guy in charge with deciding the composition, the movement of the characters, where the camera moves etc, basically a story board artist in 3D animation. So a lot of these shots and movements from Secret Level were directed BY him.
Also keep in mind those Marines in Secret Level were Ultramarines, some of the most flashy Marines out there, they are a loud and victorious chapter that boast about their accomplishments and victories constantly. Malum Caedo and his taunts to the heretics, Gadriel and Chairon having their little competition to see who gets the most kills. And these are recent/small examples, so it is perfectly in character for them to be swinging, flipping their weapons and doing these movements that may seem unnecessary, hell I personally found them to be too professional for Ultramarines (not saying that as a bad thing, I lOVED that scene).
The thing is that a lot of marine chapters are like that, I don't even want to imagine the Black Templars, the difference is that the Retributers (Syama's chapter) were specifically described as a pragmatic no-nonsense chapter that just gets the job done, so again it fits their character. Marines are still humans and like humans they have different personalities and cultures.
I somewhat get your concern of what could come from this show which is completely understandible and fair but I personally disagreed with these points.
The ultra marines looked like how I imagine emperors children fight
Something was itching in the back of my mind too that I couldn't articulate.
Games Workshop would never let a true fan be in full charge of one of their official projects.
I was wondering why it was not as good. This just solidified it.
It's really disappointing to see GW just locking the dude in golden hand cuffs. That and taking every opportunity to piss away any good will form long-term fans.
Given what GW does and what we've seen from his stuff, and their tipoff that they've repurposed this into "backstory" pretty much betrays the rift. It's the rift people have speculated from the first.
He doesn't like Primaris and GW demands them. And they're probably hoping to red herring his fans who don't like Primaris in. I got excited as I noted on the last video, but I'm glad I was going to wait and see. And now I'm sure.
Some of the footage looks like it was stolen from the end of the original short. The original creator gave after the actual video of what he wanted to do next.
GW is averse to giving us what we want, i would even pay for a subscription to warhammer to watch this if it was made by the original creator
I feel so much more vindicated making a Darktide Ogryn cut of the Secret Level trailer now lmao
Very good point, let’s hope that you are mostly right but just in an effort to make the Astartes a little less perfect so we can introduce the Custodies
After re watching Astartes, I believe you're spot on about Secret Level. It was clearly story-boarded by Syama, but he had no hand in its animation. I *pray* GW just LETS HIM COOK with Astartes II.
Different chapters will have different feels. The Retributors are gonna move differently from the Black Templars who will move differently from the Space Wolves. They're not all precise and economic in their movements.
I think you're spot on with the Secret Level episode though. The full stops after a swing and long pauses between blows definitely mired them in an air of trying to look "flashy" rather than deadly. Sort of like they're looking at the audience after every move to make sure we didn't miss anything.
The lore explanation as to why the astartes 1 space marines fought differently from the ultra marines in secret level is because they actually fight differently. The marines in astartes are canonically mocked by other chapters for not being glorious enough
It says former lives,
So back when they looked cool before they got thier new helmets and longer legs
100% agree on everything and especially the comments on Secret Level vs Astartes animation.
I dont want to agree, but like you say, i have that itching nagging feeling that something isn't quite right. I hope the final production is worth every body is waiting for.
Secret level 40k episode is done by Blur Studios And Syama P helped. I don't think Syama had time to work on this and secret level at the same time.
Nobody hates 40k fans more and wants all interest gone than Games Workshop.
I'm sick of marine-wank. 40k is a massive setting that is squandered by GWs myopic focus on the same handful of elements over and over again. I enjoyed astartes because it was a one-off masterwork by a single passionate guy. Sentencing that same guy to the bolter porn mines for the next century is an unmitigated tragedy.
The difference between Astartes and Secret level is tone.
One is a surgical rebel suppression operation. The other is almost a mythic dark fantasy quest to stop a dark sorcerer in service to a daemon of terrible power.
If you look at the video that special effects guys Corridor Crew did on it they explained that the Astartes guy did the basic animation and the polishing was left to others
He did... Huxley..? That's like my only other favourite sci fi short (besides Astartes) Amazing haha.
I believe you may be underestimating the importance of layouts in 3D animation, Carl. The layout typically defines the movement (as well as framing, lighting, camera movement, etc). The layout artists take the storyboards and create an animation that is essentially close to the final product minus a lot of fine detail. It is a good position for Peterson if he has to work within a team.
AAA 3D guy here. Layout artists are basically the guys who set up the shots, blocking, camera movements, etc for shots. Basically in charge of everything you actually see on screen and the most basic feel of the work. Given how closely the asset/art direction, lighting, animation/storyboarding, sound, editing and overall direction is to Astartes, I have zero doubts Pederson was the head honcho when it came to direction. That was his work from top to bottom.
The thing is with TV, there's all sorts of absurd union rules relating to creditation. Plus whatever arbitrary nonsense is in the contracts for the show and everyone working on it. I don't work in TV animation but I expect he was the big man in charge but union rules only allowed him one minor credit for not being in the club. You see that with VA's or actors all the time on union jobs. Plus conctractual titles for producers, that sort of thing. Half of the film buisness is playing ball with the unions, fighting for titles, credits etc. And he's not part of the game so he would've just gotten steamrolled out of the way, but is also the protected chosen creator by the studio so still gets to work on it despite not playing the internal clout game.
Given how early they've announced it, made his direction the face of the brand for something as big as Next-Level and the mere fact that they re-used the Astartes II teaser shots, front and centre. I think they know what they have and are letting the guy do his thing. I actually have faith in this one.
Before you start...
Did you notice it's a LOT of characters and settings? Far too many to likely be fleshed out sufficiently in SEVERAL full films worth of content?
they were *NEVER* going to allow a single auteur project. you are a fool if you ever expected that.
I'm sad to say i think you are right. It seems GW learned from astartes but have failed to recreate what makes it magical. Their animations look better. However, they totally missed the fuild mechanical movement and driven holy purpose.
Great analysis
The difference between how the Astartes move may just be down to their chapter. IIRC the Astartes in Astartes were a homebrew chapter of his called the Retributors who had a focus on simplicity
Poor guy got gagged so he couldn’t compete with GW.
Also, just using his name to trick people.
It's perfectly reasonable to have reservations after the dude was literally (not literally) kidnapped by GW and forced to work in their animation dungeon.
The first red flag was all the Marines weren't primaris. GW would never advertise something they aren't selling
2:20 the Retributors in their lore explains they are extremely utilitarian and efficient. Their uniforms are flat grey and undecorated. The ultramarines are ultramarines, i expected them to fight the way they did in secret level
When you realise the video is just on play, and not 1.25x
Goge Vandire and the temple tendency chads continue to be vindicated.
I do think you're right, Carl. It's another sad day.
plucking fine hairs is how you make money as a lawyer. GW has been abusing the good will of their customers for too long i will not stand for it any longer. TOO long have we gotten bad 40k adaptations now even the company is pushing these half arsed animations just to make some pennies.
I'm thinking the Secret Level may be captured more of the video game, with the "showy" "glory-kills" and for flare action as what most players would expect as in the game.
Secret level felt a bit too much like anime in a 4k realism skin.
Not seeing any of the stuff you are saying about the Secret Level episode, you are completely ignoring the fact they are using melee weapons in SL episode while they were using only ranged weapons in the original Astartes, different situation and different kind of enemy, if anything it's more professional to not waste ammo on an enemy you can easily slay with an axe swing or a punch with minimal risk (which is exactly what they do in SL), I don't see any wasteful movements either like you claim, not sure if you are watching the same episode or not, come on now!!!
To be fair to Secret Level, Tidus is a character already - his movements had flair and badassery. The clinal efficiency of Astartes wouldn't be true to his character.
What they said means the clips are about the characters from Astartes 2, before they've been sent to Death Watch.
Sargon became real life Leandros. Bro where's your chaplain helmet?
I had such hopes he would get at it again.
The secret level one would've probably made more sense with Space Wolves. Trying to write their sagas in heretic blood.
I think you've hit the nail on the head with identifying this economy of motion and conservation of energy, there's real, absolutely _ruthless_ utilitarian efficiency.
Something nagged me about the Secret Level video, part of me knew this wasn't quite as intense as the original Astartes, but it was a tiny enough difference that it was very difficult to tell.
Fulgrim Lot is the only one I can think of who would try to look badass. Which is fitting. Generally, the rest of the marines want to be efficient in killing, wasting ammo is a big nope.
Agreed, there is a veneer of Netflix girl boss faux badassery
I expect the guy has complete creative freedom since GW needs him more than he needs GW [after reading some comments and finishing the video... uh oh]
I was thinking the exact same thing yesterday. Im listening to the audiobook of I Am Slaughter and the author has some of the marines going all John Woo and dropping weapons and catching them and flipping around and it's just all wrong. Marines do not need to be showy, they need to be efficient.
BUT
There may be chapter differences in this - the difference between the fighting styles of Lucius of the Emperors Children and Loken of the Luna Wolves when they duel.
World Eaters don't fight in the same way as Imperial Fists, so yes, I absolutely prefer the combat in the original Astartes, and I think all the combat should be small variations to allow for character, but it should be mostly efficiency because that is the standard.
I would say that the movement of a space marine would depend on legion / chapter.
Iron fists would have the economy of movement you are talking about. But space wolves would definitely be unrefind in movement.
I agree with your take on the Secret Level episode, I didn't like how the marines move right from the start. However I think you are wrong in your assumptions about Astarte's 2, it is about a Deathwatch Kill team and the trailer is showcasing the 5 members of the kill team by showing clips of their past lives before induction into the Deathwatch. One of them is from his custom chapter from Astartes (The Retributors) and the others are The Scythes of the Emperor, Blood Angels, The Mortificators and The Sons of Medusa. There is no reason to think Syama is not in control of it and the fact he had a small role in secret Level only suggests to me that he is hard at work on Astartes and was quite busy at the time.
This is dumb. A few weeks ago, you were singing the praises of Secret Level on almost all levels. Pedersen's work on Astartes still very much inspired and informed what Amazon did, even though he wasn't in charge of the project. GW hired him as an animator, they never said anything about him leading any projects. Amazon has a million times the budget GW does, so they can afford to make a flashier, more over the top animation than one guy can, which is very fitting of the style of 40K in general.
I am very confident Astartes II is going to be super cool. Yes, they're repurposing his existing work to tell a new story about a Deathwatch kill team. What they've shown so far is a snapshot of the lives of the members of that kill team to build hype. Astartes II is coming out in 2026. They didn't even specify when, so it could be like November 2026, so the footage likely isnt trailer ready yet.
Just breathe. We're going to get a very cool animation. Please can we stop dooming about stuff before we've seen a single frame from the show itself? This is an exhausting trend on TH-cam.
AY UP CARL
They are uding his name (im assuming) to deflect negative criticism.
This, ive been saying the Secret Level is just another superhero episode larping as Spacemarine
Primaris canonically has zero combat experience compares to the Firstborn, so GW felt the need to show them off like this, still a joke, tbh
So you’re concerned it doesn’t look like it was made by one guy with limited time and limited money who had to be efficient with every frame? I guess struggling artists made the best art.