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How could an engineer not consider premixing the additive prior to adding it into the fuel or querying it further thats like adding 2 stroke oil to a fuel tank without mixing it first .
Commented generally but hoping that replying to this will mean you see it - please add proper subtitles. I love your work but the auto generated ones are awful, even without technical terms being used. Please consider adding proper subtitles, carry on the great work!
I find this fascinating, for anyone else wondering, the organism called Candida keroseneae (yes that's the name!) was isolated in 2011 from fuel taken from an aircraft, it grows and sustains itself on kerosene, that's amazing. While I was researching this I found others that can sustain themselves on alcohol fumes, growing on the ceiling of distilleries. Nature is incredible.
Drove a tourboat with a diesel tank on top of the front dek. During the winter the ship was not in use and a very big cake of biological crap had formed inside the tank. It was a lot of work to clean tank and fuelsystem. Lucky the company had several tourboats and could contineu operating.
Airbus also changed the procedure in the Maintenance Manuals, they got rid of the PPM calculations and just show a table with the amount of biocide required for each tank in mililiters.
Until the manufacturer starts to supply different concentrations in the same packaging, with almost unreadable text, stating that the concentration has changed. Sorry for being a partypooper, but this has already happened and I just wanted to point out, that its really hard to mitigate all possible weak spots. Yep, this probbably wont end up by clogging delicate fuel system by desinfectant, but the bugs in fuel have another chance to thrive.
12:44 I will never get tired of how he shows pilots agreeing about something by having the camera nod at the empty seat. 😂 Such a simple thing but always makes me giggle 😅
@@khtlon since all the visual stuff (like what you see at the timestamp in the comment) is made by going into a flight sim, the camera always just goes up and down (a nod) while looking over at an empty seat because.... it's a flight sim, they don't really need to have a 3d model or anything sitting there just doing nothing.
Hey Petter. I’m a travelling doc who works in a chaotic and unpredictable clinical environment. I am astounded by the differences in your industry and mine. There are so many lessons my industry could learn from you, your videos and the aviation industry in general. I so wish the business of clinical medicine was standardized as it is in your industry. Every ER I walk into has a different set up, different critical equipment, and staffing that is without standardized roles or anything that approaches CRM. With every hospital doing its own thing it is easy to understand why certain important pieces of equipment can’t be located immediately in a true emergency. When seconds matter, even in a well equipped hospital you can imagine how those holes in the Swiss cheese can line up with catastrophic consequences. It’s as if you as a pilot were to expected to fly in an unfamiliar cockpit every time you changed your base of operation and were also faced with non-routine challenges in that unfamiliar environment on a frequent basis. There are so many of my days that feel a bit for me like what your pilots in this video must have felt like as they were improvising on the fly and trying to get to a safe endpoint. The fact that medical errors are hidden behind the shield of patient confidentiality is another critical weakness of my industry. I have learned so so much from watching your videos. You are doing an incredible public service! Thank you sir.
That's a pretty scary analogy, I'm sometimes shocked when looking in at processes and procedures in other industries, coming from a lifetime in aviation you just presume other industries operate in a similar fashion!
@@tipptop9 That brings to mind when Dad retired from the Navy and got his first civilian job in 30 years, in about two weeks he was on the phone with his dad, Granddad, asking him, "Are all civilian businesses this screwed up?" Grandad's answer, "No, not all of them, there's a good ten percent which aren't."
@@tipptop9 I know right? I came in to aviation from elsewhere and experienced culture shock at how different it was. It feels like most of the world is “Oh that’s dangerous if something goes wrong and this has more than 20% chance of happening? That’s fine.” Aviation “What that’s insane? If you can’t make it less than 3% we’re out of here and going home!”
This whole incident shows how it SHOULD be done! An excellent captain and copilot making all the right decisions and keeping the cabin crew informed and ready for an emergency situation. I particularly liked the captain's decision to keep a bit above the the Glide Slope in case the engines failed. Mentour's presentation was so clear and the explanations very understandable. I tried to do that when I gave safety presentations every month when I was Chief Pilot Safety (retired 25 years ago and wrote 2 books on my flying experiences --EVERYTHING happened to me) but I was nowhere near his presentation. Well done!
My favorite part of Mentour Pilot's coverage is when he outlines the steps taken by the aviation industry to respond to each incident. It gives me the good feels that every incident is a learning experience to prevent future ones.
My favorite part of his coverage is his accent. It is strong enough to sound really cool and exotic, but not so strong that I cant understand him. I love the sound of his voice and find myself paying greater attention to what he is saying because of it. TLDR: Mentour pilot has a damn sexy voice!!!
Yea and even more, not only the mistakes are tackled, but also when something wasn't an error but helped the accident to form this is mentioned as well.
I agree except I'm astounded at how obvious some of the suggestions are as many come across as a no-brainer that should have easily been part of protocol and didn't need to have a tragedy happen to highlight it.
@@jankucera8505 Sabotage implies intent which is mutually exclusive from ignorance which by its nature can't be intentional because it requires a lack of knowledge. It's negligence.
I am an A&P instructor (and pilot) and use your videos often for class! I so appreciate that you carefully show every aspect of the issues leading up to the crash, and the NTSB report breakdown! You're helping teach a lot of young mechanics about the importance of doing their job with integrity!
@@danielhornung21 I don't think he wanted to show off. As an electrical engineer I love to learn from instructors who provide theoretical knowledge from university as well as experience in the field. Those people now what they are talking about because they really used their knowledge in "real life" and not only on a training dummy. That's why I think he mentioned he's a pilot. He knows how a technical issue affects a pilot, who's not supposed to know every little mechanic/electrical detail of an aircraft. This experience helps him to improve his training skills and emphasize how important the technical work is and to what it can lead if not done properly.
You say that, but I have been maintaining aircraft for 15 years and the Internet has been a great help. It comes down to the same thing as ANYTHING on the Internet... Don't accept the first thing you find, learn how to use the Internet to your advantage and make sure that whatever you are using for your answer, gives CONTEXT. But most of all... Use appropriate approved data and seek proper advice where possible.
Looking up the meaning of PPM should be okay, though, it's common knowledge. The converter, as shown in the video, gave a correct result. The problem was most likely in the mechanic's math. He must've multiplied by 0.01 to get the 0.01%, or something like that.
So glad to see a story like this. Disaster was prevented by the fantastic training and communication of these pilots and cabin crew. Outstanding performance! I do enjoy the disaster analysis videos but I would like to see more like this as well please.
Im so glad to see a comment like this. Trolling was prevented by your fantastic post and sincere personality. Amazing job! I do enjoy a good troll/crap post comment, but I really would like to see more of this type of positive response.
@@mohammedisaa9952 My post was a troll itself. It is truly comical to me that people actually talk like "So glad to see a story like this. Disaster was prevented by the fantastic training and communication of these pilots and cabin crew. Outstanding performance! I do enjoy the disaster analysis videos but I would like to see more like this as well please."... There is no way that person actually talks like that and I believe they were only writing that comment to try and get likes on youtube.
@@SunBear69420 what are you even talking about...? have you never put a lot of thought into a comment? of course it's gonna sound a bit unnatural if someone carefully thinks about what they want to write instead of just saying the first thing that comes to mind.
The maintenance worker not only killed the fungus completely, but almost killed the plane itself!! 😂😂 Seriously now, amazing story, with amazing analysis. Congratulations 👏👏
A company making/ selling such a monstrous concoction should at the very least, warn off untutored newbies in big letters on their packaging. "No unqualified person is to take possession of, or open, or apply this product to any aircraft or similar fuel tank before being taught the complete proper procedures involved by a fully qualified, experienced, supervisor/ instructor.
@@t5ruxlee210 in principle, that is completely silly. Any aircraft mechanic should be able to follow maintenance procedure instructions from the checklist. There are thousands of maintenance procedures, they're different on different planes, and they can't be personally taught all of them, so they read them from a reference book. Seems the reference book had some problems in this case.
Learned from offshore oil rigs that it helps to have lots of detail in manuals or task sheets. If a biocide is to be used, then have the equation and an easy conversion chart right there. Have a step specifically mixing the biocide with fuel for pre-mix. People make mistakes but those mistakes reduce when you're clear on your instructions. It's one of the points of good management.
That was one thought I had, why not just print the darn equation. Obviously a clear step by step methodology should have been there too, then there would have been no confusion about the need to pre-mix either. To me not doing that seems a lot like failing to state how things should be mixed in a chemistry lab procedure, there is a reason why the conditions and methods are clearly stated in those, things can go very badly wrong if the wrong procedure is applied, a runaway reaction ending in a face full of broken glass and boiling chemicals for example. Ambiguity is not good when dealing with chemicals or complex machinery and this procedure involved both so yeah complete clarity was essential.
I remember as a hardware maintenance crew with Mickey D's we had all kind of what seemed like silly procedures like "to full sanitization you need to achieve 10ppm of chlorine yada yada yada" the actual procedure was "mix this 3 gram sachet with 10 liters of COLD water in a white square bucket and apply with a blue colored cloth to the surface" The cloths were color coded so you didn't use in the kitchen a cloth that was probably used outside of the kitchet, the buckets were color and shape coded for the same reasons
One of the best things about this channel is the commitment to continual improvement! You never get lackadaisical or complacent despite success, I'm assuming this comes from your flying experience. One of the best channels on TH-cam.
I work on the service side of a private jet company. I love these videos because it is a reminder to stay vigilant and do our part to keep our pilots and customers safe. I also can understand how manuals can be misinterpreted and be confusing. Similar to CRM for pilots, it’s a good idea for maintenance teams to ask their coworkers for a second opinion, even it it does take extra time. It’s better to get it right the first time! Thank you for the incredible content as always, and have a Merry Christmas!
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. ”(Romans 10:9-10)❤️😁
You folks who perform inspections and maintenance are vitally important to the safety of flight. Please spread the word to everyone you work with -- you ARE appreciated more than you will ever know.
@@CKLee-rs4kl They are just as important as the pilots, when you think about it. Sure their importance usually isn't as direct as a pilot's, but as can be seen, just like a pilot, one wrong move and hundreds of people's lives are at stake. Imagine when you get onto an airplane, you might think, "I hope the pilot is a good one". But in reality, you have to also think "I hope the maintenance crew that worked on this plane were good" because if they messed up, there might be nothing that even an extremely excellent pilot can rescue you from. I'm not a pilot (or anything aviation related) but I bet you that any good pilot thinks to himself, and if possible even ensures, that the maintenance crew is good. If someone as important as the pilot thinks this, then that must mean that the maintenance crew must be just as important.
No disrespect, but as an engineer, I thought the comments that the plane was safe because it had just come out of servicing, showed a complete lack of understanding about what abominations have happened during maintenance. Always best to let someone else find out what has been incorrectly fitted, or forced to make fit etc. ⚒ (If it jams force it. If it breaks it needed replacing anyway). I haven't seen it for a bit, but I did see engineering drawings with "IF IN DOUBT ASK!" printed on them.
As a nervous flyer, I always appreciate the times when Mentour Pilot explains how something I would have considered catastrophic might not be life threatening, like seeing fire coming from an engine. Though I hope never to see such a thing, it is comforting to hear that it might not mean we’re about to explode in midair! I’m already much calmer even when we experience a lot of turbulence, which previously would send me into panic. And I’m so much more appreciative of the cabin crew as I am much more knowledgeable about the kind of self sacrifice they are willing (and trained) to undertake in case of an emergency.
if it helps, a jet engine is basically a controlled continuous explosion already. And if you mix more fuel into the exhaust, that fire tends to be visible outside, that's an afterburner. It becomes troublesome when the fire is visible when it shouldn't, and when it isn't consistent.
Yeah one thing I've noticed in some of these stories is that the flight crew can pull themselves and all passengers through even when it looks hopeless to someone like me. I have a lot more confidence and trust in the people flying... ... as long as they aren't from a steep power gradient country.
I love that you also cover incidents that didn't end catastrophic! These are the incidents no one outside of the industry would ever get to know but they truly show how well pilots and other crew members are trained in handling all kinds of problems and even if I dont have any fear about flying it gives me an even better feeling when I happen to fly!
@@johnsmith1474 Agree, the repeated problems with the engines one multiple flights didn't cause them to say, hey, there is something really wrong here. Instead everyone involved especially the maintenace people kept putting the plane back in service. Swiss cheese analong by Mentour is very correct but all the holes lining up were entirely cause by maintenance crews not doing their jobs correctly.
@@johnsmith1474 Tell me where the lack of suspicion was. The original commenter was referring to the crew, not the engineers. As far as I can tell, the crew was suspicious and passed on critical info in between each flight, raising their state of alert with each flight, which improved their handling when shit eventually hit the fan. But then again, you sound like the kind of person who complains about everything just for the sake of complaining.
I usually don't comment but...hey...It's Christmas Eve!!!! I really enjoy ALL of your videos. While not a pilot, I am an aviation buff, intrigued by all things mechanical and am really interested in the psychological aspect of how people deal with....or can't deal with stress. You cover it all! Crew management, complacency, confirmation bias, troubleshooting, laziness, and heroics. I am now a retired firefighter paramedic of 30 years but while on the job attended a class years ago that dealt with leadership in stressful situations. It was modeled after pitfalls and lessons learned in the cockpit and how the aviation community identifies and remedies issues. I took that all with me, and it kept my crew and I safe and focused. The sterile cockpit, correctly balancing authority while enabling everyone to have a say...etc etc....all stuff that is relevant in so many aspects of life. Anyway....Thank you for always providing an intriguing, interesting, and educational program. Great narration, simulations, and content. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and your family.
Ha, Me too. I'm a bit more than a buff. My Dad flew for North Central Airlines based out of O'hare. My 1st flight as a kid was on a DC-3. I went to work with him once when he was flying turbojets. Sat in the jump seat right behind him. I to enjoy Mentour's videos. It's quite amazing what pilots have to deal with now compared to my Dad basically flying by the seat of his pants. He retired in 1976. Happy Holidays Everyone!!!
Very well said and I’m sure that class taught you a lot on how to control along with manage the situations you’ve got around you. If nothing is controlled properly then everything can easily fall apart catastrophically. Mentour clearly shows this in his videos and explains in full depth how things can go wrong very easily which is why I enjoy watching his videos so much!
Loved this one for the fact that the issues were handled so well by all the pilots throughout; it doesn't have to be a disaster to be engaging. So satisfying!
Wow these pilots truly did an amazing job at keeping the aircraft up. Seems like every time something catastrophically goes wrong the standard guidelines get better and better! Wonderful animations here as well they truly add a powerful and strong touch to your videos.
That's because they do get better after each catastrophic incident. They try to be proactive, but they can't think of everything before it happens. The rules and procedures of aviation are thus written in blood.
You would think that the sight of some dude up-ending that huge tub of sludge on top of the wing would have drawn somebody’s attention. It seems apparent that nobody else in the area was familiar with Kathon. Either that, or they were SO thinly spread that there was literally nobody else around. This video is a perfect illustration of the Swiss cheese model! Petter, thanks as always for this excellent, insightful and engaging analysis.
Lack of time and pressure to get it done sometimes leads to not many around as spread on other aircraft though that really isn't an excuse. If in doubt always make sure by finding someone experienced if not sure say everyone has to learn.
Absolutely brilliant again! The last 30 seconds gave me chills. 23 year US major airline captain. A lifetime of always learning, and your channel has added to that.
Thankfully the aircraft landed safely....which is why a TV show/documentary wouldn't touch this story. Yet another reason why this channel is so awesome - the emphasis is on analysis and lessons learned, not the dramatization of tragedy.
That brings to mind a 1982 song from a guy named Don Henley, "Bubbleheaded bleach blonde comes on at five, tells you about the plane crash with a gleam in her eye."
There is nothing better than accident and incident reviews for learning. After 45 years of military and airline flying I can say without hesitation yours are the best. Thank you for your great addition to aviation quality. I agree the operating crew did an excellent job.
This seems to be one of the rare examples where everyone in the chain paid attention, communicated correctly, took precautionary action, and acted safely under intense pressure and stress. Thus saving many lives! Such a relief!
The most shocking news here is that after several unsuccessful engine start-ups, ecam engine stall messages on different legs of the flight, one engineer doing an outside visual check is ever regarded to be enough to send the plane back to flight. I think the crew did an amazing job but there was a lot of luck involved. If both engines had stalled at 500ft right after t/o the flight might be doomed regardless how skilled the crew is.
Totally agree, shocking that an engineer doesn't know what ppm is or takes the trouble to find out. An element of luck here that this aircraft didn't crash regardless of flight crew professionalism.
The point given was that he did not know what ppm means in English. He did try to find out from colleagues and the internet. My take on this is that people should not be relying on technical instructions in an another language if they not familiar with the technical terms in that language, or a glossary into their language should be provided by their employer.
This sort of thing worries me somewhat when I fly, especially GA where maintenance items are less rigorous than commercial flights. The importance of taking your plane to a good A&P is crucial. I think the scariest thing as a pilot is when you do everything correctly but still things turn out unfavorably. I'm happy that they managed to keep both engines during this circuit pattern, it could have been so much worse. This crew handled the situation very well, absolutely fantastic!
I fly with a friend of mine (he has his PPL, I don't) a few times a year in either a Cessna 152 or a PA-28 Warrior. He takes off and lands, I do the flying in-between while he handles the radios. This is great motivation for both of us to be as thorough as possible during our pre-flight checks - I have even caught something once which looked wrong when he didn't. If you're ever on a GA flight, get involved. Help with the pre-flight checks and satisfy yourself that everything looks good. Not only is it good practice, it means that we can fully trust each other with our lives every time we fly.
I always think that the pilot doesn't want to die either (well, I hope). Still mechanical things tend to fail sometimes and that's when a good training helps the pilot. The thing with smaller GA planes is that besides having less people on board they are also more easily landed without any engine in some field. I've no fear of flying but as for feeling save both have their advantages and disadvantages depending on the problems you might have. But I won't do a nice tour in Nepal in a Twin Otter, already hard in MSFS to gain altitude and don't clip a mountain.
@@secondskins-nl GA is about the most dangerous thing that an ordinary person will ever do. There are good reasons to fly, but it deserves a great amount of caution.
As a chemist using PPM to specify a volume % for liquids is confusing. When I see PPM, I usually think mole %, which does coincide with volume % in gases, but that is certainly not true for different liquids.
I studied chemistry at uni for a while a long time ago (and i failed at that), but calculating solution concentrations was a bugger foor me, i found it very confusing. But i think ppm is good in sutiations like this that don't require high precision, it's quite straightforward as long as you know what it means, because the meaning is in the name, and it takes 10 seconds to have a rough idea of concentration (at least, its order of magnitude) with common liquids whose densities don't differ hugely. I am just imagining what could've happened had the manual stated mole%, with that first maintenance guy trying to figure that out with doctor google (or maybe it wouldn't have taken off in the first place..)) As for the manuals for chemicals, having worked with them in a different field, i can say they can be written extremely bad, especially if they're retranslated through 2 or 3 different languages by people who are not too good at them. This can be fine for a product for, say, construction or even automotive industry, but for something as sensitive as in-situ aviation use it's scary. Well, that's exactly what the video is about. However, in my experience, the aviation ones were indeed generally better. But in general, the chemical commercial industry, in many respects, is not quite as strict as people might think, and definitely not fool-proof.
@@zloychechen5150 I think the problem with PPM is that it does not (on its own) specify what "one part" means. In industrial settings both weight % and volume % are perfectly good units, but even with those fixed, there is still room for error. For example some "recipes" may instruct the worker to mix 15 parts of Compound A with 100 parts of Compound B. The amount of A used will be 15% of the amount of B used, but the final mixture will *not* be "15% A in B", but actually (15/115)*100% = 13%.
I hate percent as a measure altogether: is it by weight, mass or volume? Sometimes not specified because there is a convention one is expected to know ☹️
@@TheBackyardChemist Welcome to m/m% or mass percent, not moles...I hate percent for that reason... Give me a 0.25mol/l HCL solution (0.25N) instead of the often common 10%...much easier calculation of titrations etc.
@@TheBackyardChemist I would think just fluid units would be fine. x milliliters per liter. honestly if in the case of the thing in the aircraft if its supposed to be added premixed one would think the fueling truck could have a system to hook up an additive bottle, tell it what mix is needed and start filling. I mean the supermarket can have things that premix cleaning agents for buckets and spray bottles used by the janitors, than id hope fuel trucks could have something similar for fuel additives.
This man taught me one of the most important life lessons: beware confirmation bias. Sometimes you can trust something you learn online. Don't change. Don't be tempted to dumb things down for a wider audience. We come to learn; we leave informed and entertained.
@@jb06800fr The converter result needs to be read correctly - But it starts with not knowing that ppm means "parts per million". And as he was checking it out (it was not a quick error) he was obviously not able to calculate it with a pen and a piece of paper.
@@jb06800fr I work as a analytical chemist and have had to use online converters for PPM several times and never had an issue. This is much more of a training and procedural issue than him using the internet. If you don’t understand what PPM is using a converter is not useful you need to know how it works for the values to be calculated correctly. Many of my colleagues who don’t have the same educational background as me are unfamiliar with the term and they will be given training and then supervised for their initial attempts at preparing solutions. Those solutions will then be checked with an instrument before they go into use, regardless of whether it was prepped by an experienced person or not
I think another important lesson from this incident is that it was saved by a single strong link in the chain. All the holes in the swiss cheese model lined up, but there was still one layer left at the end: The Pilot's training, and that was all that was needed to save the day. It's a good reminder that incidents can be stopped at any point in the process, be it early or late
Along the lines of "so many flights that are fine" vs how many you talk about, I appreciate you talking about so many where in spite of the emergency they STILL landed safely. Generally the only ones that make headline news have a far worse outcome.
There are also those cases in which the news is exaggerating the situation. "Near disaster!" And then when you read it, based on these videos and 74Gear, you'll know the plane returned to the airport just to be on the safe side.
Massive respect to the pilots for such a professional and thoughtful approach to the issues they faced. Always nice to see professionalism triumph over problems like this.
Well yes but if they had check the maintenance logs, they might have received a stronger clue as to what might be happening. The flight could have been rejected after the second start attempt.
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. ”(Romans 10:9-10)❤️😁
Seeing the briefing and handover reminds me sooo much of my job in healthcare. Specifically patient transport. It is so important for me to make sure I receive all reliving information regarding the patient from the hospital I pick up from, and ensure that all that information is handed over to the receiving facility. But on top of that, also checking the patients paperwork (with their permission) and asking questions to the patient about their medical history, to ensure that I can give them the best care possible whilst they are in my care. A story that could have been bad happened only 29 hours ago as of me writing this comment. My coworker and I arrived on a ward to pick up a patient, but their oxygen saturation was too low for transport. This was however neglected in the handover from the head nurse as they were desperate for the bed. Had we not asked for obs to be taken, effectively asking for our own investigation, we could have transported this patient, but gotten 10 mins down the road for her to suddenly lose consciousness and require us to call the ambulance service to hand over to them. The ambulance service being the people who contract private Non-emergency operators to transport patients. Basically, we would have our arses handed to us for putting the patient in danger and not doing our jobs, all because we trusted what was written and didn’t ask for, or receive a thorough handover. Handover is arguably the most important part of any job for that reason. It alerts workers if faults and issues, warns of any developing situations, and prepares them to act in those situations. And it helps to be able to explain the recent history from the handover of the previous crew.
This reminds me when I was a young chemical engineer, responsible for dosing/testing jet fuel for anti-freeze, for the Canadian military. Trucker showed up with 15,000 gal of JetA, he needed confirmation it had enough anti-freeze. I climbed up, scooped up sample, took it to lab and measured the gel point. It was too high... no fuel delivery for you! So we looked up manual, which said add another bottle of anti-freeze to the truck. It didn't say "mix". I wondered "oh oh, how to do we mix it?". The trucker said "I'll drive around for an hour, and come back". And so he did. And 2hrs later, the repeat sample passed. Best I know no fighter jets stalled out.
*_Kathon_* usage was such a potential issue that we revised the installation and operating manuals for all GE and CFM (and GE-Honda, I believe) engines to prohibit its usage. A huge flurry of paperwork, sometimes on documents that hadn't been updated for a decade, due to a stabile and mature engine.
Thank you. You told a well paced and exciting drama today. I feared, throughout your telling, a bad ending was coming. The relief as the crew got their plane safely down was gratifying. And your praise of ALL the good folk doing their separate, demanding, and expert work was well received! Thank you once again and Merry Christmas to you and yours!
A lot of accident / incident reports show what happens when crews don't work well together; fantastic to see what can be overcome when the flight crew(s) work as a team. Great video as usual.
I love you last words, that what I was thinking. Nice to see a video where the plane don‘t crash and shows how the most crew are functioning. It‘s not so Spectacular but more important for me as a passenger because I love unspectacular flights ;)
A note from someone in the building industry, so, not a pilot. At all. I started watching your videos for entertainment, but realized i'd better start taking notes. Structural building design has had hiccups ever since someone tried stacking rocks. And codes have been written in stone, that are followed without fail. The issues crop up when something changes. Like, a change to the slope of the roof. Everyone makes sure that the strucural steel is re-designed, and re-detailed to ensure all the bolts fit. But ensuring that every trim, sealer and screw is adjusted is a challenge. Because we're constantly doing it for the first time. Like, the roof slope changed, but also the colour. So a trim doesn't fit right. Yeah, we can send replacement trim on a flight to Eureka, Nunavit, but could that have been avoided?
Watching your videos actually took away 99% of my flight anxiety. Knowing how professional and cooperative everyone involved in this business is working i could relax during my last two flights. Your work and style of presentation is highly appreciated.
The thing said at the end of the video was important. Everyone at every level tries their best to make every flight safe. I was a bit surprised yet again when I was reminded that even I as a lowly aircraft cleaner and ramper basically have the same responsibility as the tech log. If I or anyone else on ground Cree are working on the apron or aircraft stands and I see something on a plane like the A320 or 737 ect and I think something looks wrong or broken I can report it and the same thing happens. That plane is grounded until a suitable mechanic or pilot has come out and taken a look at it and cleared it to go. And we’re taught the very basics on detecting signs of damage before we can even go through security to get airside. That’s the level of detail we work with.
Kathon has caused other incidents of engine flameout and supply restrictions unrelated to overdosing. March 29, 2019, a B788 owned by Jetstar Airways (VH-VKJ) suffered severe power degradation in both engines while on approach to Kansai with 313 souls. Unlike other incidents that could be blamed on overdosing or improper mixing, documentation confirms that engineers correctly followed all directions for dosing and mixing. Despite correct procedures, the Kathon still separated and formed a sludge that impaired engine function. In fact an AD (AD 2020-15410) was issued in 2020 directing that any fuel containing Kathon 1.5 be removed from all 737-8 and 737 MAX aircraft and future use of Kathon 1.5 in those planes be prohibited. Following the Jetstar 788 incident, GE issued a service bulletin recommending Kathon not be used fuel for in planes fitted with GEnx engines. The FAA also issued SAIB NE-20-04, which appears to only reiterate that directions be followed in use of biocide in fuel, and is only a "recommendation." To me, this seems like another example of the FAA doing the absolute LEAST that they possibly can, especially given evidence that Kathon 1.5 has poor miscibility with aviation fuel (and diesel). Its literature boasts of being 100% miscible with water, but I've seen suggestions (caveat: from a competitor's website) that it is only about 7% miscible with aviation fuel, and that incidents like this are inevitable until the FAA expands the AD to eliminate ALL aviation use of Kathon 1.5. Fortunately DuPont, makers of Kathon, have recommended discontinuing the use of Kathon FP1.5 for aviation-related products.
Ahhh.. Biocidal memories...When a technician has never done a task before it is a good idea to have an experienced tech supervise accomplishment of said task. Depending on the level of contamination it is wise to defuel the aircraft of contaminated fuel once it has been treated and circulated.
It seems like a good change (for now!) would be to _only_ use Kathon 1.5 for the fuel tanks in _one_ wing at a time. If it fails and clogs an engine, at least the tank in the other engine is still normal, so at least you'll make it back to an airport. Also, putting circulation and heating pumps in the fuel compartment (temporarily, I mean) might help create a homogeneous suspension, if Kathon isn't miscible. But putting electricity inside a fuel compartment may be one of those cases where the medicine is worse than the ailment, haha. So that idea is perhaps far less practical than just treating the fuel tanks one at a time. (I mean, it's not like bacterial overgrowth will down a plane in _less_ than a dozen flights, so although the issue shouldn't be ignored, it's not an _immediate_ problem either - so you don't _have_ to treat all tanks simultaneously, even though it would save time and money)
Love knowing how safe flying is because of continuous notifications between all involved to keep passengers and crew safe when mistakes occur. Your way of explaining these instances helps all of us become more aware of potential problems that can be resolved through proper communication amongst individuals who take their time doing the job they have with dedication and commitment!
I can only imagine the sheer amount of technically written rapports you have to dig through to make this video and still so clearly and well presented. Impressive!
The fluid mixing debacle reminds me of the Illinois state chemical handling license course I took for horticulture. One of the takeaways was "If you're not sure, don't guess." I would only have messed myself up (and maybe some plants and animals), but the idea was to take chemicals seriously and never hit the nozzle without knowing you know what you're doing. Im glad that on this case crew did everything right and saved the day. Merry Christmas!
During my schooltime (long ago now) we had to calculate according to a formula how much of an acid we would need to clean up a glass. The result of a classmate´s calculation was: 5000 tons. I will never forget this.😂
Thank you very much for making these videos. I am one of the vast minority of people that have lost multiple people I know to two separate commercial plane crashes. One was my mom's coworker who was flying on airfrance 447 which you recently covered, and the other was a small cargo island hopper in Alaska that traveled with two families with children I was friends with, and everyone on board perished. I developed a fairly crippling fear of air travel because of this that I'm only just starting to get over. Your videos are helping me a lot. It's really helpful to know that even in some of the worst situations involving mechanical failures and stuff like that that most of the time the planes are still getting back okay. It's the best kind of exposure therapy that I've been able to get for this without actually flying. So again, thank you. Your channel means a lot to me.
Thanks for the great video Peter and Mentour crew! I've never heard about this incident and it was truly fascinating! From the engineering side I was amazed how few inspection was necessary to let the plane fly again. I mean after series of recurring issues, like engine stall, ecam messages from both engines, etc. only a visual check, but no fuel quality, fuel pressure, igniters, etc. The engineers didn't do anything really and suddenly the plane was airworthy again.... Thanks again Mentour Team!!!!
A jet engine is incredibly simple, for it not to start means there is something wrong. I was surprised how unconcerned everyone was about it. Even staying that's it's an ignitor fault is worrying, 1) it means that at least one burner is been lit by flashing off from another burner, very bad; 2) during some conditions that could cause a flame out the ignitors have to be on
It really is surprising that it can be signed off without understanding what the fault is - claiming it's an igniter fault seems to just be a cop-out on the maintenance side because they needed some explanation for the concerned pilots.
“Incredibly simple…” *Remembers how the a 737 engine looks like every time she sees one with the cowling up.* 🤨🤔 Are you sure about that? The mess of pipes and stuff looked complicated. No, I’m only half kidding. The basic concept is simple. But yeah I’m shocked that an external look was considered okay. I mean, at least here in the UK those are done by standard both by a mechanic and captain during the walk around. What really boggles my mind is that this inspection includes looking into the engine between the fan blades and beyond using a torch-at least for the mechanic. The pilot seems to only do that if there isn’t full daylight. I’m just ACS and a ramper but I remember once this 737 parked on the stand and as I’m putting the safety cone in front of the number one engine I noticed dark smears coming from one of the seams in the cowling. I can’t help but stop and take a closer look though of course I’m aware that the engine is still very hot having only been shut down a few minutes before. Sure enough, drip drip. I don’t need to report it because I already know the line maintainance van is just behind the a bit and I won’t have to wait long. Sure enough I soon perceive the presence of someone kneeling down beside me so I remark. “I don’t think that looks right.” I’m being facetious, the mechanics and I get along well. They seem to enjoy indulging my curiosity though I’m careful not to disturb them at a bad time. He chuckled and asked me what I thought it was. Oil leak. I got to see them test the oil pressure and later showed me what it looks like in the cockpit on the monitors. Dunno how they fixed it, I had to move on. But the 737 didn’t go anywhere until the next morning. Ah I love my job.
@@mikoto7693 Yes, the basic principle is very simple, spray fuel into a tube of compressed air; certainly simpler than a petrol engine or diesel engine; no timing chains, no valves, etc. Of course designing it so you maximise the performance without it melting it where the skill comes. And yeah, lots of pipes to get fuel and oil in, certainly doesn't make it look simple. Glad the mechanics let you look in what they were doing. Stay safe on the ramp.
"The engineers first language was not English. He couldn't find a colleague to help him so he did the next best thing, he went on the internet." I can already see that this is not gonna end well.
Former USAF avionics maintainer here. The maintainers want to do everything correctly and safely. But the information in the maintainer's paper and electronic manuals has to be Current and Correct. It ALSO must be in a language the maintainer can clearly comprehend and understand. Almost all of the maintenance documents I used were on paper. I see the gradual movement to electronic formats as a good thing. For one thing, the computer can have multiple copies of a document, each in a different language. The maintainer should be able to print the relevant pages to take to the workstation or aircraft for immediate reference. Each page can also be printed with the current date/time, and an expiration date that is before the next scheduled update of the manual. For this to work, however, measurements need to be expressed in consistent units that are clearly understood by an educated person. As a practical matter, this means all measurements must be expressed in units of the International System of Units (the SI). The USA would have to make the majority of the changes, since we are the only industrial society that still persists in using a measurement system that goes back to antiquity and pre-history. (Some progress is being made, but the fact is that the USA is THE outlier in the world when it comes to measurements.) In this case, ppm (parts per million) would be expressed in SI units as mg/kg (milligrams per kilogram). Since this is a mass ratio, the maintainer would have to premix by getting a known weight of fuel (lets say 1 000 kg), then add the proportional weight of antimicrobial solution (1 000 mg), then mix it thoroughly. Only then can it be added to a fuel tank on an aircraft. Then repeat for each additional fuel tank. If there is ANY chance of doubt it must be clearly described in the maintenance documents. Really, this should be intuitive for a fuel system maintainer, since fuel for "heavy" and larger aircraft is almost always measured in mass units.
🤓Actually🤓 ppm for solutions (in biomedical labs at least) is mg per liter. That’s why it is 0.78 kg for 6200kg of fuel: 6200 kg of fuel corresponds to ~7800 L (as A1 jet fuel has a density of 0.804 kg/L). **Edit** I checked the datasheet from the manufacturer and indeed it is supposed to be ppm w/v (weight in volume).
In the boating industry we suffer from something similar with diesel fuel. I used additives but sometimes the fuel tanks needed to be flushed before going back into service. Great video thank you.
This isn't about a missed fuel flush, it's about how a problem was created by a maintenance procedure error, then missed because of a maintenance diagnosis error. There is very little in common here. The water in the diesel in a boat collects in the filter btw.
Water is collected in the fuel filter to some extent in a boat, but only that that actually runs through the system. It is often the case that water from daily condensation collects at the bottom of the tank and then sits for long periods of time and organisms that eat fuel grow at the fuel water interface, often forming large fungal mats. Then the boat is taken out and this fungal mat then gets stirred up and can eventually plug up the fuel filters to an extent that the engines won’t run. Tanks need to be flushed in this case. This has happened to me often when delivering seldom used yachts. It is definitely a thing.
@@Thrust-Set-Simulations luckily I’ve never suffered complete engine loss, just reduction in power for a while. I know it’s real, I’ve seen it several times.
@@g7eit I was off Pt. Sur in 8’ seas at night one time and lost both engines and the generator due to this. Me and my crew had to hand filter the fuel and add it to the Racors one gallon at a time and limped into Monterey on one engine. It was pretty bad. Ah, the joys of delivering yachts you know nothing about. 😂
So many tiny errors adding up. Glad that last crew was top notch, and the decision to use a higher glideslope definitely showed the Captain's experience.
Glad you liked it! I thought it was time to round of the year on a positive note. Thanks for being part of my Patreon crew. It’s you guys who makes this possible!
@@MentourPilot Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. ”(Romans 10:9-10)❤️😁
Awesome example of great CRM!!! Thank you for your videos and they way you dissect each incident into easily digestible pieces.... I am Captain/LCA/APD/Instructor at a Major U.S. Airline...
The main thing I've learned from following this channel is that Swiss cheese has saved more lives than any other type of cheese. Thankyou to Swiss cheesemakers and all of you in the aviation industry for keeping us safe. Merry Christmas.
Awesome as always Petter. just as a small aside: the biocide they use to decontaminate the tanks is the same that we use at work to remove biological flora/fauna from the mineral oil based cutting fluids on our mfg floor. It’s pretty horrible stuff, it’s a “4” on the fire diamond in the health parameter and the MSDS sheets are quite extensive. P.S. completed my part 65 PPL in November, on to my IFR certificate.😃 Merry Xmas to you and your family. -Chris from NY
Chris great good luck on your IFR. My husband was an airline pilot and my son was chief pilot on a medical flight company. He loved his Lear jet. It's a great life.
Pilot: Aaah, hey during our flight the entire plane started to vibrate and my screen told me that my engine was stalling Engineer: nah, bruh IT'S FINE. 😀
The engineer “looked at the engine” from the outside. Well it’s still there…. Sign it off as good to go. Like what the actual F there are people flying in these tin cans you know!
Wow! This has really illustrated so many things that go into getting a plane from A to B. And it's also a tangible example of how deeply the Mentor Pilot staff puts every effort into researching the flight process from beginning to end. I've learned so many things in this video alone to make me both horrified and grateful for each and every step in the process of flying such a large aircraft. It takes a LOT to go wrong, and still a lot to go seamlessly. That being said, there are so many things that are checked and rechecked repeatedly that the likelihood of something going wrong has so many obstacles in the way, that a tragedy is almost never likely to come to fruition. My Chapeau is off to the every crew member for each and every flight.
I needed this. I had watched a vid a couple days ago where there were only 4 survivers out of 163 in a Christmas holiday flight to ... Columbia think, where an experienced crew hit a mountain because they were impatient and got confused and the final telemetry station was out of action because of guerella activity. The flight crew stopped flying the plane while looking stuff up instead of going "wait, here be mountains" and gaining altitude until things were settled. Unusually I found my self crying for about 15 minutes. What a relief to hear about a flight where most everyone did everything right and prevented something catestrophic.
it is not only important for an airline crew. Clear and exact explanations, briefings and a good team that also understands and is able to do what is needed when an issue arises is the most important thing i nany crew.
Well, unless it is really common to have problems when starting the engines, I am thinking that this captain could actually have refused to take-off before it was understood what was causing the issue. But questioning the competence of other people is hard and we can't blame him for not being 100% perfect. The technician who kept getting more and more canisters of kathon to pour into the wings and engineer using the wrong engine checklist are of course the ones at fault here. ☝️
I love that each time there is a problem like this, the entire industry reacted to fix it. And the air crew must be beaming from all the praise! I would be.
A good feeling to see this example of professionalism by the flight crews that gave this incident a happy ending and has made air travel as safe as it is today.
I am not a pilot but that pat on the back still felt very nice. I am an aviation enthusiast and I know quite a few pilots personally. To often the general public don't realize how hard it is to master these machines and yet these pilots manage to provide one of the safest ways to travel.
good to have one with a good ending. the fuel shock treatment really seems like something that there should be a specialized fitting to ensure proper metering and mixing of the fuel additive. on a related note, I've had contaminated fuel in a ground vehicle, and I have seen the kind of strange engine behavior it can cause.
Fouling takes time to build. The buildup of the contaminants in the turbines took time as the offending substances worked from the tank to the engine. All of the affected components can tolerate some nonsense, some more than others, but eventually there was so much nonsense in the system that nothing worked properly and very bad things started happening. Considering the seriousness of the problem, in one sense, this couldn't have gone better; had this issue occurred 20 flight minutes earlier, lives might well have been lost.
If the mechanic put the aircraft number in the Troubleshooting Manual search..... he should have come up with the correct TSM reference for whatever engines were installed on that airframe. And as far as the Borescope inspection, that is normally a very specialized training. At our airline it is done by dedicated inspectors who first received the specialized training, and then must maintain that qualification. This is so you have people doing borescopes that know what they are looking at.
I ordered a "This is how I roll" T for my good friend Bill. Former USAF pilot. Taught computer science for 30 years at local university. Beloved in the community. T is supposed to be here Wednesday. Can't wait to see the look on his and his wife's faces.
I have watched so many of your videos and I have to say these two flight crews are probably my favourites in any incident I have watched. I noted especially that one of the captains was only 28, and while age doesn't equate necessarily to experience, I'm still really impressed and happy that you covered this incident. Thank you and your team for a year of excellent videos, here's to a happy festive period and happy new year 2023!
From the viewers responses, I can be sure that this video is a proof that negative news does not have to get all the attention. If presented properly like this video, positive news can also get the same level of attention. My Hats Off to Mentour team!
No, its not ALL that mattered, the trail of mistakes that could.d have easily lead to a crash is truly scary. Per the MAX crashes, pilots should dnot have to compensate for the negligence of ground support or aircraft mfgs.
Great way to end Xmas day. All the best to you and the family Mentour! Just reserved our flight to England in Feb, which was one of the biggest dreams of my dad. Merry Christmas. ♥️
Brother Petter, Thank you for these Informative Videos which inculcate me with the Knowledge of Aviation. I have never sat on any Aircraft as of now but, I have seen the insights of a Cockpit and I have learnt many Technical Concepts of Aviation through your videos especially, these Accident Video Series. I like the way you represent the whole Accident Scenario which actually thrills me and helps me in understanding Aviation better. I was very amazed by your video on How a Passenger can land an Aircraft Safely in the time of an Emergency. Keep up this Good Work, Brother. God is with you. Take Care. Last but not the least, 💐Wishing you a Very 🌟Merry and Joyous🌟 🥞🎄Christmas🎄. (in advance)💐
Same here man! If ever the shit would hit the fan on an Airbus or Boeing I am on one, these videos have taught me so much I 'think' I would be able to contact ATC, and let someone talk me down on autoland.
You have taught me more about advanced theory and operation than any other resource that I have ever been exposed to, Including 1 year of ground school. You are extremely sharp on your subject matter which make your new breakdown videos even more interesting. So yeah, you surely deserve more than subscriptions.
I was in the US Navy, when we did maintenance on any of our electronic equipment, we use a planed maintenance card that has explicit step by step directions a 6th grader can follow. Very detailed and no matter how many times you did it, you were REQUIRED to follow every single step in order. If you failed to do so and were found out? common punishment was reduction in rank, extra duty for a month, restriction to the ship for a month and half pay for at least one month if not 2. They did not screw around with maintenance. You did it properly or suffered the consequences. Sounds like they need a few more of those kind of planned maintenance cards for this kind of stuff.
I can’t stop watching your videos (80% done so far, lol). I’m just a private pilot but there are a lot that I can learn from these commercial aviation events. Thanks very much for these phenomenal contents!
Go to curiositystream.thld.co/mentourpilot_1122 and use code MENTOURPILOT to save 25% off today, that’s only $14.99 a year. Thanks to Curiosity Stream for sponsoring today’s video.
cpt. please say something about ethiopian boing 737 max crash, the final report has released please.🙏
Det er en fyr som spammer kommentarfeltet her med religiøst innhold, Petter. Han har postet den samme meldingen en haug med ganger...
The fact is we do not know about most mistakes because they are not followed by other problems. The chain gets broken very early in the process.
How could an engineer not consider premixing the additive prior to adding it into the fuel or querying it further thats like adding 2 stroke oil to a fuel tank without mixing it first .
Commented generally but hoping that replying to this will mean you see it - please add proper subtitles. I love your work but the auto generated ones are awful, even without technical terms being used. Please consider adding proper subtitles, carry on the great work!
I find this fascinating, for anyone else wondering, the organism called Candida keroseneae (yes that's the name!) was isolated in 2011 from fuel taken from an aircraft, it grows and sustains itself on kerosene, that's amazing. While I was researching this I found others that can sustain themselves on alcohol fumes, growing on the ceiling of distilleries. Nature is incredible.
@Noodlyk18 I can't wait until we find critters on Mars or Titan because "Nature is incredible.".
There’s even bacteria that was discovered on the wreck of the Titanic that eats metal.
Bacteria was found that can eat nylon. I can't provide a good source for it, so take this information with a grain of salt.
Drove a tourboat with a diesel tank on top of the front dek. During the winter the ship was not in use and a very big cake of biological crap had formed inside the tank. It was a lot of work to clean tank and fuelsystem. Lucky the company had several tourboats and could contineu operating.
Airbus also changed the procedure in the Maintenance Manuals, they got rid of the PPM calculations and just show a table with the amount of biocide required for each tank in mililiters.
Until the manufacturer starts to supply different concentrations in the same packaging, with almost unreadable text, stating that the concentration has changed. Sorry for being a partypooper, but this has already happened and I just wanted to point out, that its really hard to mitigate all possible weak spots. Yep, this probbably wont end up by clogging delicate fuel system by desinfectant, but the bugs in fuel have another chance to thrive.
@@JanicekTrnecka Perhaps the label itself should be regulated if it's to be used in aviation? Then there's far less chance of severe mixups...
@@svensimpson4130 Mayhaps teaching pupils what ppm means would have avoided this specific problem?
Or teaching the mechanic not to do anything if he has a question and wait until his question can be answered.
Thanks for the info. Using a mix in milliliters should have been the original instruction set.
12:44 I will never get tired of how he shows pilots agreeing about something by having the camera nod at the empty seat. 😂 Such a simple thing but always makes me giggle 😅
I don't understand what you mean by your comment. Could you please elaborate. Thank you
@@khtlon since all the visual stuff (like what you see at the timestamp in the comment) is made by going into a flight sim, the camera always just goes up and down (a nod) while looking over at an empty seat because.... it's a flight sim, they don't really need to have a 3d model or anything sitting there just doing nothing.
As always, it's better to have gas than to have a gas problem. Cheers!
@@khtlon autistic?
I always thought I was the only one noticing this. Nice to share a giggle with a stranger! :)
The best part of that story is how professional all the flight crews were. It's just so satisfying to hear.
Hey Petter. I’m a travelling doc who works in a chaotic and unpredictable clinical environment. I am astounded by the differences in your industry and mine. There are so many lessons my industry could learn from you, your videos and the aviation industry in general. I so wish the business of clinical medicine was standardized as it is in your industry. Every ER I walk into has a different set up, different critical equipment, and staffing that is without standardized roles or anything that approaches CRM. With every hospital doing its own thing it is easy to understand why certain important pieces of equipment can’t be located immediately in a true emergency. When seconds matter, even in a well equipped hospital you can imagine how those holes in the Swiss cheese can line up with catastrophic consequences. It’s as if you as a pilot were to expected to fly in an unfamiliar cockpit every time you changed your base of operation and were also faced with non-routine challenges in that unfamiliar environment on a frequent basis. There are so many of my days that feel a bit for me like what your pilots in this video must have felt like as they were improvising on the fly and trying to get to a safe endpoint. The fact that medical errors are hidden behind the shield of patient confidentiality is another critical weakness of my industry. I have learned so so much from watching your videos. You are doing an incredible public service! Thank you sir.
True and scary
I’m a physical therapist
That's a pretty scary analogy, I'm sometimes shocked when looking in at processes and procedures in other industries, coming from a lifetime in aviation you just presume other industries operate in a similar fashion!
@@tipptop9 That brings to mind when Dad retired from the Navy and got his first civilian job in 30 years, in about two weeks he was on the phone with his dad, Granddad, asking him, "Are all civilian businesses this screwed up?" Grandad's answer, "No, not all of them, there's a good ten percent which aren't."
@@alonespirit9923
🤣 I've never been in the service, but this sounds correct.
@@tipptop9 I know right? I came in to aviation from elsewhere and experienced culture shock at how different it was. It feels like most of the world is “Oh that’s dangerous if something goes wrong and this has more than 20% chance of happening? That’s fine.” Aviation “What that’s insane? If you can’t make it less than 3% we’re out of here and going home!”
This whole incident shows how it SHOULD be done! An excellent captain and copilot making all the right decisions and keeping the cabin crew informed and ready for an emergency situation. I particularly liked the captain's decision to keep a bit above the the Glide Slope in case the engines failed. Mentour's presentation was so clear and the explanations very understandable. I tried to do that when I gave safety presentations every month when I was Chief Pilot Safety (retired 25 years ago and wrote 2 books on my flying experiences --EVERYTHING happened to me) but I was nowhere near his presentation. Well done!
My favorite part of Mentour Pilot's coverage is when he outlines the steps taken by the aviation industry to respond to each incident. It gives me the good feels that every incident is a learning experience to prevent future ones.
My favorite part of his coverage is his accent. It is strong enough to sound really cool and exotic, but not so strong that I cant understand him. I love the sound of his voice and find myself paying greater attention to what he is saying because of it.
TLDR: Mentour pilot has a damn sexy voice!!!
Yea and even more, not only the mistakes are tackled, but also when something wasn't an error but helped the accident to form this is mentioned as well.
My favourite part is when I find out that the plane landed safely.
I agree except I'm astounded at how obvious some of the suggestions are as many come across as a no-brainer that should have easily been part of protocol and didn't need to have a tragedy happen to highlight it.
@@SunBear69420TMI
Thanks for this one. I find the 'almost' accidents just as, if not often even more fascinating than dissection of actual accidents!
that was no accident or mistake, it was sabotage through ignorance
I agree because sometimes there’s way more evidence of what happened
@@jankucera8505 Sabotage implies intent which is mutually exclusive from ignorance which by its nature can't be intentional because it requires a lack of knowledge. It's negligence.
@@GeekGamer666 You sound like a pilot
@@jankucera8505 is
I am an A&P instructor (and pilot) and use your videos often for class! I so appreciate that you carefully show every aspect of the issues leading up to the crash, and the NTSB report breakdown! You're helping teach a lot of young mechanics about the importance of doing their job with integrity!
I like how you had to put in there "I'm a Pilot" how do you know there's a pilot in the room? don't worry he will tell you
@@danielhornung21
I don't think he wanted to show off.
As an electrical engineer I love to learn from instructors who provide theoretical knowledge from university as well as experience in the field. Those people now what they are talking about because they really used their knowledge in "real life" and not only on a training dummy.
That's why I think he mentioned he's a pilot. He knows how a technical issue affects a pilot, who's not supposed to know every little mechanic/electrical detail of an aircraft. This experience helps him to improve his training skills and emphasize how important the technical work is and to what it can lead if not done properly.
"He did the next best thing; he went on the internet ..."
Oh, this can't end well.
I thought the same...
Extra strange that he came up 38x over instead of 999x over, with the language difference changing "mil."
You say that, but I have been maintaining aircraft for 15 years and the Internet has been a great help.
It comes down to the same thing as ANYTHING on the Internet...
Don't accept the first thing you find, learn how to use the Internet to your advantage and make sure that whatever you are using for your answer, gives CONTEXT.
But most of all... Use appropriate approved data and seek proper advice where possible.
😂😂
Looking up the meaning of PPM should be okay, though, it's common knowledge. The converter, as shown in the video, gave a correct result. The problem was most likely in the mechanic's math. He must've multiplied by 0.01 to get the 0.01%, or something like that.
Certainly one of the most engaging storytellers on the internet, no bullshit and super ethical.
So glad to see a story like this. Disaster was prevented by the fantastic training and communication of these pilots and cabin crew. Outstanding performance! I do enjoy the disaster analysis videos but I would like to see more like this as well please.
I know right, I’m so happy to see a story where the pilots won and saved their aircraft.
Im so glad to see a comment like this. Trolling was prevented by your fantastic post and sincere personality. Amazing job! I do enjoy a good troll/crap post comment, but I really would like to see more of this type of positive response.
@Nick Muzy
"Trolling was prevented"...... that's like a red flag to us TROLLS !!!!!!!!!.... 🤣 Dont write things like that Nicky boy.... !
@@mohammedisaa9952 My post was a troll itself. It is truly comical to me that people actually talk like "So glad to see a story like this. Disaster was prevented by the fantastic training and communication of these pilots and cabin crew. Outstanding performance! I do enjoy the disaster analysis videos but I would like to see more like this as well please."...
There is no way that person actually talks like that and I believe they were only writing that comment to try and get likes on youtube.
@@SunBear69420 what are you even talking about...? have you never put a lot of thought into a comment? of course it's gonna sound a bit unnatural if someone carefully thinks about what they want to write instead of just saying the first thing that comes to mind.
The maintenance worker not only killed the fungus completely, but almost killed the plane itself!! 😂😂
Seriously now, amazing story, with amazing analysis. Congratulations 👏👏
He definitely killed the engines.
A company making/ selling such a monstrous concoction should at the
very least, warn off untutored newbies in big letters on their packaging.
"No unqualified person is to take possession of, or open, or apply this
product to any aircraft or similar fuel tank before being taught the complete
proper procedures involved by a fully qualified, experienced, supervisor/ instructor.
@@t5ruxlee210 in principle, that is completely silly. Any aircraft mechanic should be able to follow maintenance procedure instructions from the checklist. There are thousands of maintenance procedures, they're different on different planes, and they can't be personally taught all of them, so they read them from a reference book.
Seems the reference book had some problems in this case.
I am still stuck at fuel being contaminated by a biological
@@xephramwatches7259happens in diesel too, water separates from the fuel, and an organism lives in the water while feeding off of the fuel
Learned from offshore oil rigs that it helps to have lots of detail in manuals or task sheets. If a biocide is to be used, then have the equation and an easy conversion chart right there. Have a step specifically mixing the biocide with fuel for pre-mix.
People make mistakes but those mistakes reduce when you're clear on your instructions. It's one of the points of good management.
That was one thought I had, why not just print the darn equation. Obviously a clear step by step methodology should have been there too, then there would have been no confusion about the need to pre-mix either. To me not doing that seems a lot like failing to state how things should be mixed in a chemistry lab procedure, there is a reason why the conditions and methods are clearly stated in those, things can go very badly wrong if the wrong procedure is applied, a runaway reaction ending in a face full of broken glass and boiling chemicals for example. Ambiguity is not good when dealing with chemicals or complex machinery and this procedure involved both so yeah complete clarity was essential.
I remember as a hardware maintenance crew with Mickey D's we had all kind of what seemed like silly procedures like "to full sanitization you need to achieve 10ppm of chlorine yada yada yada" the actual procedure was "mix this 3 gram sachet with 10 liters of COLD water in a white square bucket and apply with a blue colored cloth to the surface"
The cloths were color coded so you didn't use in the kitchen a cloth that was probably used outside of the kitchet, the buckets were color and shape coded for the same reasons
One of the best things about this channel is the commitment to continual improvement! You never get lackadaisical or complacent despite success, I'm assuming this comes from your flying experience. One of the best channels on TH-cam.
I work on the service side of a private jet company. I love these videos because it is a reminder to stay vigilant and do our part to keep our pilots and customers safe. I also can understand how manuals can be misinterpreted and be confusing. Similar to CRM for pilots, it’s a good idea for maintenance teams to ask their coworkers for a second opinion, even it it does take extra time. It’s better to get it right the first time! Thank you for the incredible content as always, and have a Merry Christmas!
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. ”(Romans 10:9-10)❤️😁
Safety definitely starts on the ground.
You folks who perform inspections and maintenance are vitally important to the safety of flight. Please spread the word to everyone you work with -- you ARE appreciated more than you will ever know.
@@CKLee-rs4kl They are just as important as the pilots, when you think about it. Sure their importance usually isn't as direct as a pilot's, but as can be seen, just like a pilot, one wrong move and hundreds of people's lives are at stake. Imagine when you get onto an airplane, you might think, "I hope the pilot is a good one". But in reality, you have to also think "I hope the maintenance crew that worked on this plane were good" because if they messed up, there might be nothing that even an extremely excellent pilot can rescue you from. I'm not a pilot (or anything aviation related) but I bet you that any good pilot thinks to himself, and if possible even ensures, that the maintenance crew is good. If someone as important as the pilot thinks this, then that must mean that the maintenance crew must be just as important.
No disrespect, but as an engineer, I thought the comments that the plane was safe because it had just come out of servicing, showed a complete lack of understanding about what abominations have happened during maintenance. Always best to let someone else find out what has been incorrectly fitted, or forced to make fit etc. ⚒ (If it jams force it. If it breaks it needed replacing anyway).
I haven't seen it for a bit, but I did see engineering drawings with "IF IN DOUBT ASK!" printed on them.
As a nervous flyer, I always appreciate the times when Mentour Pilot explains how something I would have considered catastrophic might not be life threatening, like seeing fire coming from an engine. Though I hope never to see such a thing, it is comforting to hear that it might not mean we’re about to explode in midair! I’m already much calmer even when we experience a lot of turbulence, which previously would send me into panic. And I’m so much more appreciative of the cabin crew as I am much more knowledgeable about the kind of self sacrifice they are willing (and trained) to undertake in case of an emergency.
if it helps, a jet engine is basically a controlled continuous explosion already. And if you mix more fuel into the exhaust, that fire tends to be visible outside, that's an afterburner.
It becomes troublesome when the fire is visible when it shouldn't, and when it isn't consistent.
Yeah one thing I've noticed in some of these stories is that the flight crew can pull themselves and all passengers through even when it looks hopeless to someone like me. I have a lot more confidence and trust in the people flying...
... as long as they aren't from a steep power gradient country.
Thanks from this USAF Veteran, for all the great aviation videos & lessons!
Good man
Thank you so much for your kind words and your support!!
I love that you also cover incidents that didn't end catastrophic! These are the incidents no one outside of the industry would ever get to know but they truly show how well pilots and other crew members are trained in handling all kinds of problems and even if I dont have any fear about flying it gives me an even better feeling when I happen to fly!
Man that entire crew deserve raises. Amazingly well handled for what I can only imagine was an incredibly stressful situation.
The actually did nothing special, and the lack of suspicion contributed to a near disaster.
This is capitalism. The only people who get raises are executives. Everyone else has to quit and find a higher paying job.
@@johnsmith1474 Agree, the repeated problems with the engines one multiple flights didn't cause them to say, hey, there is something really wrong here. Instead everyone involved especially the maintenace people kept putting the plane back in service. Swiss cheese analong by Mentour is very correct but all the holes lining up were entirely cause by maintenance crews not doing their jobs correctly.
@Phillip Banes your previous comment literally confirms what I said
@@johnsmith1474 Tell me where the lack of suspicion was. The original commenter was referring to the crew, not the engineers. As far as I can tell, the crew was suspicious and passed on critical info in between each flight, raising their state of alert with each flight, which improved their handling when shit eventually hit the fan. But then again, you sound like the kind of person who complains about everything just for the sake of complaining.
What a brilliant air crew. Everyone working together as a team led by a calm and well informed Captain
An incident like this shows just how important it is having TWO trained and experienced pilots on the flight deck! 👍👍
I agree! If that was done all single-pilot, I'd bet some important thing would be missed. Another great video!
I usually don't comment but...hey...It's Christmas Eve!!!! I really enjoy ALL of your videos. While not a pilot, I am an aviation buff, intrigued by all things mechanical and am really interested in the psychological aspect of how people deal with....or can't deal with stress. You cover it all! Crew management, complacency, confirmation bias, troubleshooting, laziness, and heroics. I am now a retired firefighter paramedic of 30 years but while on the job attended a class years ago that dealt with leadership in stressful situations. It was modeled after pitfalls and lessons learned in the cockpit and how the aviation community identifies and remedies issues. I took that all with me, and it kept my crew and I safe and focused. The sterile cockpit, correctly balancing authority while enabling everyone to have a say...etc etc....all stuff that is relevant in so many aspects of life. Anyway....Thank you for always providing an intriguing, interesting, and educational program. Great narration, simulations, and content. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and your family.
Ha, Me too. I'm a bit more than a buff. My Dad flew for North Central Airlines based out of O'hare. My 1st flight as a kid was on a DC-3. I went to work with him once when he was flying turbojets. Sat in the jump seat right behind him. I to enjoy Mentour's videos. It's quite amazing what pilots have to deal with now compared to my Dad basically flying by the seat of his pants. He retired in 1976. Happy Holidays Everyone!!!
I am obsessed with aviation videos. If I had a chance to do my life overi would become a Human Factors psychologist in aviation.
Very well said and I’m sure that class taught you a lot on how to control along with manage the situations you’ve got around you. If nothing is controlled properly then everything can easily fall apart catastrophically. Mentour clearly shows this in his videos and explains in full depth how things can go wrong very easily which is why I enjoy watching his videos so much!
YES! Abs I love these bids
Thank you for your service of the community!
Loved this one for the fact that the issues were handled so well by all the pilots throughout; it doesn't have to be a disaster to be engaging. So satisfying!
Wow these pilots truly did an amazing job at keeping the aircraft up. Seems like every time something catastrophically goes wrong the standard guidelines get better and better! Wonderful animations here as well they truly add a powerful and strong touch to your videos.
That's because they do get better after each catastrophic incident. They try to be proactive, but they can't think of everything before it happens. The rules and procedures of aviation are thus written in blood.
You would think that the sight of some dude up-ending that huge tub of sludge on top of the wing would have drawn somebody’s attention. It seems apparent that nobody else in the area was familiar with Kathon. Either that, or they were SO thinly spread that there was literally nobody else around. This video is a perfect illustration of the Swiss cheese model!
Petter, thanks as always for this excellent, insightful and engaging analysis.
They were stretched thin. In the incident report it says they were working on 6-7 aircraft when their capacity was 2.
Lack of time and pressure to get it done sometimes leads to not many around as spread on other aircraft though that really isn't an excuse. If in doubt always make sure by finding someone experienced if not sure say everyone has to learn.
Absolutely brilliant again! The last 30 seconds gave me chills. 23 year US major airline captain. A lifetime of always learning, and your channel has added to that.
Thankfully the aircraft landed safely....which is why a TV show/documentary wouldn't touch this story. Yet another reason why this channel is so awesome - the emphasis is on analysis and lessons learned, not the dramatization of tragedy.
That brings to mind a 1982 song from a guy named Don Henley, "Bubbleheaded bleach blonde comes on at five, tells you about the plane crash with a gleam in her eye."
@@alonespirit9923 Then his legal team hunts down TH-camrs so he can make even more money.
@@alonespirit9923Dirty Laundry?
There is nothing better than accident and incident reviews for learning. After 45 years of military and airline flying I can say without hesitation yours are the best. Thank you for your great addition to aviation quality.
I agree the operating crew did an excellent job.
This seems to be one of the rare examples where everyone in the chain paid attention, communicated correctly, took precautionary action, and acted safely under intense pressure and stress. Thus saving many lives! Such a relief!
The most shocking news here is that after several unsuccessful engine start-ups, ecam engine stall messages on different legs of the flight, one engineer doing an outside visual check is ever regarded to be enough to send the plane back to flight. I think the crew did an amazing job but there was a lot of luck involved. If both engines had stalled at 500ft right after t/o the flight might be doomed regardless how skilled the crew is.
Indeed. The first engineer was only poor and with the lack of any appropriate support - the second engineer was really disturbing in his behaviour.
Totally agree, shocking that an engineer doesn't know what ppm is or takes the trouble to find out. An element of luck here that this aircraft didn't crash regardless of flight crew professionalism.
The point given was that he did not know what ppm means in English. He did try to find out from colleagues and the internet. My take on this is that people should not be relying on technical instructions in an another language if they not familiar with the technical terms in that language, or a glossary into their language should be provided by their employer.
What does Ppm mean in English.
@@bloggsie45parts per million
This sort of thing worries me somewhat when I fly, especially GA where maintenance items are less rigorous than commercial flights. The importance of taking your plane to a good A&P is crucial. I think the scariest thing as a pilot is when you do everything correctly but still things turn out unfavorably. I'm happy that they managed to keep both engines during this circuit pattern, it could have been so much worse. This crew handled the situation very well, absolutely fantastic!
Yeah, this has always been a fear of mine, esp. on rental aircraft.
It is a faith-based exercise…
I fly with a friend of mine (he has his PPL, I don't) a few times a year in either a Cessna 152 or a PA-28 Warrior. He takes off and lands, I do the flying in-between while he handles the radios. This is great motivation for both of us to be as thorough as possible during our pre-flight checks - I have even caught something once which looked wrong when he didn't. If you're ever on a GA flight, get involved. Help with the pre-flight checks and satisfy yourself that everything looks good. Not only is it good practice, it means that we can fully trust each other with our lives every time we fly.
I always think that the pilot doesn't want to die either (well, I hope). Still mechanical things tend to fail sometimes and that's when a good training helps the pilot. The thing with smaller GA planes is that besides having less people on board they are also more easily landed without any engine in some field. I've no fear of flying but as for feeling save both have their advantages and disadvantages depending on the problems you might have. But I won't do a nice tour in Nepal in a Twin Otter, already hard in MSFS to gain altitude and don't clip a mountain.
For sure
@@secondskins-nl GA is about the most dangerous thing that an ordinary person will ever do. There are good reasons to fly, but it deserves a great amount of caution.
Wow. LOVE to see a crew doing everything as correct as they could and getting a good outcome into the bargain!
As a chemist using PPM to specify a volume % for liquids is confusing. When I see PPM, I usually think mole %, which does coincide with volume % in gases, but that is certainly not true for different liquids.
I studied chemistry at uni for a while a long time ago (and i failed at that), but calculating solution concentrations was a bugger foor me, i found it very confusing. But i think ppm is good in sutiations like this that don't require high precision, it's quite straightforward as long as you know what it means, because the meaning is in the name, and it takes 10 seconds to have a rough idea of concentration (at least, its order of magnitude) with common liquids whose densities don't differ hugely. I am just imagining what could've happened had the manual stated mole%, with that first maintenance guy trying to figure that out with doctor google (or maybe it wouldn't have taken off in the first place..))
As for the manuals for chemicals, having worked with them in a different field, i can say they can be written extremely bad, especially if they're retranslated through 2 or 3 different languages by people who are not too good at them. This can be fine for a product for, say, construction or even automotive industry, but for something as sensitive as in-situ aviation use it's scary. Well, that's exactly what the video is about. However, in my experience, the aviation ones were indeed generally better. But in general, the chemical commercial industry, in many respects, is not quite as strict as people might think, and definitely not fool-proof.
@@zloychechen5150 I think the problem with PPM is that it does not (on its own) specify what "one part" means. In industrial settings both weight % and volume % are perfectly good units, but even with those fixed, there is still room for error. For example some "recipes" may instruct the worker to mix 15 parts of Compound A with 100 parts of Compound B. The amount of A used will be 15% of the amount of B used, but the final mixture will *not* be "15% A in B", but actually (15/115)*100% = 13%.
I hate percent as a measure altogether: is it by weight, mass or volume? Sometimes not specified because there is a convention one is expected to know ☹️
@@TheBackyardChemist Welcome to m/m% or mass percent, not moles...I hate percent for that reason... Give me a 0.25mol/l HCL solution (0.25N) instead of the often common 10%...much easier calculation of titrations etc.
@@TheBackyardChemist I would think just fluid units would be fine. x milliliters per liter. honestly if in the case of the thing in the aircraft if its supposed to be added premixed one would think the fueling truck could have a system to hook up an additive bottle, tell it what mix is needed and start filling. I mean the supermarket can have things that premix cleaning agents for buckets and spray bottles used by the janitors, than id hope fuel trucks could have something similar for fuel additives.
This man taught me one of the most important life lessons: beware confirmation bias. Sometimes you can trust something you learn online.
Don't change. Don't be tempted to dumb things down for a wider audience. We come to learn; we leave informed and entertained.
"Sometimes you can trust something you learn online."
Except when the internet tells you how much Kathon you should put in a fuel tank
@@jb06800fr The converter result needs to be read correctly - But it starts with not knowing that ppm means "parts per million". And as he was checking it out (it was not a quick error) he was obviously not able to calculate it with a pen and a piece of paper.
@@franziskani yeah I wonder how you get into aviation tech and allowed to alone maintenance a plane without knowing what PPM means
@@jb06800fr I work as a analytical chemist and have had to use online converters for PPM several times and never had an issue. This is much more of a training and procedural issue than him using the internet. If you don’t understand what PPM is using a converter is not useful you need to know how it works for the values to be calculated correctly. Many of my colleagues who don’t have the same educational background as me are unfamiliar with the term and they will be given training and then supervised for their initial attempts at preparing solutions. Those solutions will then be checked with an instrument before they go into use, regardless of whether it was prepped by an experienced person or not
@@Rin-ef2tp Thank you for this additional informations!
I worked with CFM56s on the RC135 family. Those are some tough engines!! I think it took like 8 frozen Turkeys to stop it in testing.
I think another important lesson from this incident is that it was saved by a single strong link in the chain. All the holes in the swiss cheese model lined up, but there was still one layer left at the end: The Pilot's training, and that was all that was needed to save the day. It's a good reminder that incidents can be stopped at any point in the process, be it early or late
All the pilots, not just the last ones to fly the plane
I know, and they want to have pilotless planes to increase profits
Scary
Along the lines of "so many flights that are fine" vs how many you talk about, I appreciate you talking about so many where in spite of the emergency they STILL landed safely. Generally the only ones that make headline news have a far worse outcome.
There are also those cases in which the news is exaggerating the situation. "Near disaster!" And then when you read it, based on these videos and 74Gear, you'll know the plane returned to the airport just to be on the safe side.
Massive respect to the pilots for such a professional and thoughtful approach to the issues they faced. Always nice to see professionalism triumph over problems like this.
As a pilot for a legacy carrier in the U.S. I enjoy and get much information from your videos. Keep up the good work!
Chapeau to the crewmembers, once again well trained professionals can literally save the day.
Well yes but if they had check the maintenance logs, they might have received a stronger clue as to what might be happening. The flight could have been rejected after the second start attempt.
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. ”(Romans 10:9-10)❤️😁
@@alunesh12345 oh shut up
Seeing the briefing and handover reminds me sooo much of my job in healthcare. Specifically patient transport. It is so important for me to make sure I receive all reliving information regarding the patient from the hospital I pick up from, and ensure that all that information is handed over to the receiving facility. But on top of that, also checking the patients paperwork (with their permission) and asking questions to the patient about their medical history, to ensure that I can give them the best care possible whilst they are in my care.
A story that could have been bad happened only 29 hours ago as of me writing this comment. My coworker and I arrived on a ward to pick up a patient, but their oxygen saturation was too low for transport. This was however neglected in the handover from the head nurse as they were desperate for the bed. Had we not asked for obs to be taken, effectively asking for our own investigation, we could have transported this patient, but gotten 10 mins down the road for her to suddenly lose consciousness and require us to call the ambulance service to hand over to them. The ambulance service being the people who contract private Non-emergency operators to transport patients. Basically, we would have our arses handed to us for putting the patient in danger and not doing our jobs, all because we trusted what was written and didn’t ask for, or receive a thorough handover. Handover is arguably the most important part of any job for that reason. It alerts workers if faults and issues, warns of any developing situations, and prepares them to act in those situations. And it helps to be able to explain the recent history from the handover of the previous crew.
This reminds me when I was a young chemical engineer, responsible for dosing/testing jet fuel for anti-freeze, for the Canadian military. Trucker showed up with 15,000 gal of JetA, he needed confirmation it had enough anti-freeze. I climbed up, scooped up sample, took it to lab and measured the gel point. It was too high... no fuel delivery for you! So we looked up manual, which said add another bottle of anti-freeze to the truck. It didn't say "mix". I wondered "oh oh, how to do we mix it?". The trucker said "I'll drive around for an hour, and come back". And so he did. And 2hrs later, the repeat sample passed. Best I know no fighter jets stalled out.
*_Kathon_* usage was such a potential issue that we revised the installation and operating manuals for all GE and CFM (and GE-Honda, I believe) engines to prohibit its usage. A huge flurry of paperwork, sometimes on documents that hadn't been updated for a decade, due to a stabile and mature engine.
Former (auto) mechanic, I've seen many fuel additives and so called cleaners ruin engines
Really nice to see a video where no one died or even was injured. I love watching all your stuff, but this was a nice change of pace.
Hats off to the captain for briefing his crew before they even left the ground that made all the difference in the world
Thank you. You told a well paced and exciting drama today. I feared, throughout your telling, a bad ending was coming. The relief as the crew got their plane safely down was gratifying. And your praise of ALL the good folk doing their separate, demanding, and expert work was well received! Thank you once again and Merry Christmas to you and yours!
A lot of accident / incident reports show what happens when crews don't work well together; fantastic to see what can be overcome when the flight crew(s) work as a team.
Great video as usual.
I love you last words, that what I was thinking. Nice to see a video where the plane don‘t crash and shows how the most crew are functioning. It‘s not so Spectacular but more important for me as a passenger because I love unspectacular flights ;)
The ones where everyone walks away are always my favorites too.
Outstanding job by the crew! And Merry Christmas to you and yours, Petter, and everyone else that helps with Mentour Pilot!
A note from someone in the building industry, so, not a pilot. At all. I started watching your videos for entertainment, but realized i'd better start taking notes. Structural building design has had hiccups ever since someone tried stacking rocks. And codes have been written in stone, that are followed without fail. The issues crop up when something changes. Like, a change to the slope of the roof. Everyone makes sure that the strucural steel is re-designed, and re-detailed to ensure all the bolts fit. But ensuring that every trim, sealer and screw is adjusted is a challenge. Because we're constantly doing it for the first time. Like, the roof slope changed, but also the colour. So a trim doesn't fit right. Yeah, we can send replacement trim on a flight to Eureka, Nunavit, but could that have been avoided?
Watching your videos actually took away 99% of my flight anxiety. Knowing how professional and cooperative everyone involved in this business is working i could relax during my last two flights. Your work and style of presentation is highly appreciated.
The thing said at the end of the video was important. Everyone at every level tries their best to make every flight safe. I was a bit surprised yet again when I was reminded that even I as a lowly aircraft cleaner and ramper basically have the same responsibility as the tech log. If I or anyone else on ground Cree are working on the apron or aircraft stands and I see something on a plane like the A320 or 737 ect and I think something looks wrong or broken I can report it and the same thing happens. That plane is grounded until a suitable mechanic or pilot has come out and taken a look at it and cleared it to go.
And we’re taught the very basics on detecting signs of damage before we can even go through security to get airside. That’s the level of detail we work with.
Kathon has caused other incidents of engine flameout and supply restrictions unrelated to overdosing. March 29, 2019, a B788 owned by Jetstar Airways (VH-VKJ) suffered severe power degradation in both engines while on approach to Kansai with 313 souls. Unlike other incidents that could be blamed on overdosing or improper mixing, documentation confirms that engineers correctly followed all directions for dosing and mixing. Despite correct procedures, the Kathon still separated and formed a sludge that impaired engine function. In fact an AD (AD 2020-15410) was issued in 2020 directing that any fuel containing Kathon 1.5 be removed from all 737-8 and 737 MAX aircraft and future use of Kathon 1.5 in those planes be prohibited. Following the Jetstar 788 incident, GE issued a service bulletin recommending Kathon not be used fuel for in planes fitted with GEnx engines. The FAA also issued SAIB NE-20-04, which appears to only reiterate that directions be followed in use of biocide in fuel, and is only a "recommendation."
To me, this seems like another example of the FAA doing the absolute LEAST that they possibly can, especially given evidence that Kathon 1.5 has poor miscibility with aviation fuel (and diesel). Its literature boasts of being 100% miscible with water, but I've seen suggestions (caveat: from a competitor's website) that it is only about 7% miscible with aviation fuel, and that incidents like this are inevitable until the FAA expands the AD to eliminate ALL aviation use of Kathon 1.5. Fortunately DuPont, makers of Kathon, have recommended discontinuing the use of Kathon FP1.5 for aviation-related products.
I’m surprised DuPont isn’t exactly known for doing the right thing.
There's gotta be better ways to decontaminate tanks. Full drain and heat treatment?
@@mykeprior3436 Problem is the microbes also live in the bulk fuel supply.
Ahhh.. Biocidal memories...When a technician has never done a task before it is a good idea to have an experienced tech supervise accomplishment of said task. Depending on the level of contamination it is wise to defuel the aircraft of contaminated fuel once it has been treated and circulated.
It seems like a good change (for now!) would be to _only_ use Kathon 1.5 for the fuel tanks in _one_ wing at a time.
If it fails and clogs an engine, at least the tank in the other engine is still normal, so at least you'll make it back to an airport.
Also, putting circulation and heating pumps in the fuel compartment (temporarily, I mean) might help create a homogeneous suspension, if Kathon isn't miscible.
But putting electricity inside a fuel compartment may be one of those cases where the medicine is worse than the ailment, haha. So that idea is perhaps far less practical than just treating the fuel tanks one at a time.
(I mean, it's not like bacterial overgrowth will down a plane in _less_ than a dozen flights, so although the issue shouldn't be ignored, it's not an _immediate_ problem either - so you don't _have_ to treat all tanks simultaneously, even though it would save time and money)
Love knowing how safe flying is because of continuous notifications between all involved to keep passengers and crew safe when mistakes occur.
Your way of explaining these instances helps all of us become more aware of potential problems that can be resolved through proper communication amongst individuals who take their time doing the job they have with dedication and commitment!
Love the videos of when the flight crew does things right, and showcases the level of skill and knowledge that makes aviation so safe!
Your videos are always top notch! Enjoyed this one as much as the others!
Awesome to hear
I can only imagine the sheer amount of technically written rapports you have to dig through to make this video and still so clearly and well presented. Impressive!
The fluid mixing debacle reminds me of the Illinois state chemical handling license course I took for horticulture. One of the takeaways was "If you're not sure, don't guess." I would only have messed myself up (and maybe some plants and animals), but the idea was to take chemicals seriously and never hit the nozzle without knowing you know what you're doing. Im glad that on this case crew did everything right and saved the day. Merry Christmas!
I love that: “if you’re not sure, don’t guess”!
During my schooltime (long ago now) we had to calculate according to a formula how much of an acid we would need to clean up a glass. The result of a classmate´s calculation was: 5000 tons.
I will never forget this.😂
Truly remarkable on the pilots for keeping the plane alive and fighting with it.
Get Miek Tyopsomn go to 2 oreunds with the airplenwe!
@@ilovecops5499whatever you are drinking is too strong for you 😂
@@X737_ I AM STRINGES. o AM SOUPERMANS!@!!!!
@@ilovecops5499 still in it? Have some patsys to level up 😎😂
@@X737_ LMAO.
Thank you very much for making these videos. I am one of the vast minority of people that have lost multiple people I know to two separate commercial plane crashes. One was my mom's coworker who was flying on airfrance 447 which you recently covered, and the other was a small cargo island hopper in Alaska that traveled with two families with children I was friends with, and everyone on board perished. I developed a fairly crippling fear of air travel because of this that I'm only just starting to get over. Your videos are helping me a lot. It's really helpful to know that even in some of the worst situations involving mechanical failures and stuff like that that most of the time the planes are still getting back okay. It's the best kind of exposure therapy that I've been able to get for this without actually flying. So again, thank you. Your channel means a lot to me.
Thanks for the great video Peter and Mentour crew! I've never heard about this incident and it was truly fascinating! From the engineering side I was amazed how few inspection was necessary to let the plane fly again. I mean after series of recurring issues, like engine stall, ecam messages from both engines, etc. only a visual check, but no fuel quality, fuel pressure, igniters, etc. The engineers didn't do anything really and suddenly the plane was airworthy again.... Thanks again Mentour Team!!!!
A jet engine is incredibly simple, for it not to start means there is something wrong. I was surprised how unconcerned everyone was about it. Even staying that's it's an ignitor fault is worrying, 1) it means that at least one burner is been lit by flashing off from another burner, very bad; 2) during some conditions that could cause a flame out the ignitors have to be on
It really is surprising that it can be signed off without understanding what the fault is - claiming it's an igniter fault seems to just be a cop-out on the maintenance side because they needed some explanation for the concerned pilots.
Indeed.
“Incredibly simple…” *Remembers how the a 737 engine looks like every time she sees one with the cowling up.* 🤨🤔 Are you sure about that? The mess of pipes and stuff looked complicated.
No, I’m only half kidding. The basic concept is simple. But yeah I’m shocked that an external look was considered okay. I mean, at least here in the UK those are done by standard both by a mechanic and captain during the walk around. What really boggles my mind is that this inspection includes looking into the engine between the fan blades and beyond using a torch-at least for the mechanic. The pilot seems to only do that if there isn’t full daylight.
I’m just ACS and a ramper but I remember once this 737 parked on the stand and as I’m putting the safety cone in front of the number one engine I noticed dark smears coming from one of the seams in the cowling. I can’t help but stop and take a closer look though of course I’m aware that the engine is still very hot having only been shut down a few minutes before. Sure enough, drip drip. I don’t need to report it because I already know the line maintainance van is just behind the a bit and I won’t have to wait long.
Sure enough I soon perceive the presence of someone kneeling down beside me so I remark. “I don’t think that looks right.” I’m being facetious, the mechanics and I get along well. They seem to enjoy indulging my curiosity though I’m careful not to disturb them at a bad time. He chuckled and asked me what I thought it was. Oil leak. I got to see them test the oil pressure and later showed me what it looks like in the cockpit on the monitors. Dunno how they fixed it, I had to move on. But the 737 didn’t go anywhere until the next morning.
Ah I love my job.
@@mikoto7693 Yes, the basic principle is very simple, spray fuel into a tube of compressed air; certainly simpler than a petrol engine or diesel engine; no timing chains, no valves, etc. Of course designing it so you maximise the performance without it melting it where the skill comes. And yeah, lots of pipes to get fuel and oil in, certainly doesn't make it look simple.
Glad the mechanics let you look in what they were doing.
Stay safe on the ramp.
"The engineers first language was not English. He couldn't find a colleague to help him so he did the next best thing, he went on the internet." I can already see that this is not gonna end well.
Former USAF avionics maintainer here. The maintainers want to do everything correctly and safely. But the information in the maintainer's paper and electronic manuals has to be Current and Correct. It ALSO must be in a language the maintainer can clearly comprehend and understand.
Almost all of the maintenance documents I used were on paper. I see the gradual movement to electronic formats as a good thing. For one thing, the computer can have multiple copies of a document, each in a different language. The maintainer should be able to print the relevant pages to take to the workstation or aircraft for immediate reference. Each page can also be printed with the current date/time, and an expiration date that is before the next scheduled update of the manual.
For this to work, however, measurements need to be expressed in consistent units that are clearly understood by an educated person. As a practical matter, this means all measurements must be expressed in units of the International System of Units (the SI). The USA would have to make the majority of the changes, since we are the only industrial society that still persists in using a measurement system that goes back to antiquity and pre-history. (Some progress is being made, but the fact is that the USA is THE outlier in the world when it comes to measurements.)
In this case, ppm (parts per million) would be expressed in SI units as mg/kg (milligrams per kilogram). Since this is a mass ratio, the maintainer would have to premix by getting a known weight of fuel (lets say 1 000 kg), then add the proportional weight of antimicrobial solution (1 000 mg), then mix it thoroughly. Only then can it be added to a fuel tank on an aircraft. Then repeat for each additional fuel tank. If there is ANY chance of doubt it must be clearly described in the maintenance documents. Really, this should be intuitive for a fuel system maintainer, since fuel for "heavy" and larger aircraft is almost always measured in mass units.
🤓Actually🤓 ppm for solutions (in biomedical labs at least) is mg per liter. That’s why it is 0.78 kg for 6200kg of fuel:
6200 kg of fuel corresponds to ~7800 L (as A1 jet fuel has a density of 0.804 kg/L).
**Edit**
I checked the datasheet from the manufacturer and indeed it is supposed to be ppm w/v (weight in volume).
In the boating industry we suffer from something similar with diesel fuel. I used additives but sometimes the fuel tanks needed to be flushed before going back into service. Great video thank you.
This isn't about a missed fuel flush, it's about how a problem was created by a maintenance procedure error, then missed because of a maintenance diagnosis error. There is very little in common here. The water in the diesel in a boat collects in the filter btw.
Water is collected in the fuel filter to some extent in a boat, but only that that actually runs through the system. It is often the case that water from daily condensation collects at the bottom of the tank and then sits for long periods of time and organisms that eat fuel grow at the fuel water interface, often forming large fungal mats. Then the boat is taken out and this fungal mat then gets stirred up and can eventually plug up the fuel filters to an extent that the engines won’t run. Tanks need to be flushed in this case. This has happened to me often when delivering seldom used yachts. It is definitely a thing.
@@Thrust-Set-Simulations luckily I’ve never suffered complete engine loss, just reduction in power for a while. I know it’s real, I’ve seen it several times.
@@g7eit I was off Pt. Sur in 8’ seas at night one time and lost both engines and the generator due to this. Me and my crew had to hand filter the fuel and add it to the Racors one gallon at a time and limped into Monterey on one engine. It was pretty bad. Ah, the joys of delivering yachts you know nothing about. 😂
So many tiny errors adding up. Glad that last crew was top notch, and the decision to use a higher glideslope definitely showed the Captain's experience.
What I like is the fact once a problem is documented it seems it gets to the maintenance procedures so this doesn’t happen again.
Excellent video, as always! 😍 The animation is great, it adds a lot. And I love the positive conclusion (I totally agree).
Glad you liked it! I thought it was time to round of the year on a positive note.
Thanks for being part of my Patreon crew. It’s you guys who makes this possible!
@@MentourPilot Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. ”(Romans 10:9-10)❤️😁
💪💪💪 wow ! 🎉
@@MentourPilot So we normal viewer by just watching aren't ?
Best one to end the year with. I find it heroic how the pilots were thinking one step ahead and saved the souls from a potential disaster!
Awesome example of great CRM!!! Thank you for your videos and they way you dissect each incident into easily digestible pieces.... I am Captain/LCA/APD/Instructor at a Major U.S. Airline...
The main thing I've learned from following this channel is that Swiss cheese has saved more lives than any other type of cheese.
Thankyou to Swiss cheesemakers and all of you in the aviation industry for keeping us safe.
Merry Christmas.
😀👍
Awesome as always Petter. just as a small aside: the biocide they use to decontaminate the tanks is the same that we use at work to remove biological flora/fauna from the mineral oil based cutting fluids on our mfg floor. It’s pretty horrible stuff, it’s a “4” on the fire diamond in the health parameter and the MSDS sheets are quite extensive.
P.S. completed my part 65 PPL in November, on to my IFR certificate.😃
Merry Xmas to you and your family.
-Chris from NY
Chris great good luck on your IFR. My husband was an airline pilot and my son was chief pilot on a medical flight company. He loved his Lear jet. It's a great life.
I’ll never understand any of this
@@bunnyjames3828 that’s awesome, and thanks!
“Let me google that”, something we passengers really don’t expect or want from any engineer checking the airplane before flying…… great episode!
Pilot: Aaah, hey during our flight the entire plane started to vibrate and my screen told me that my engine was stalling
Engineer: nah, bruh IT'S FINE. 😀
Contract maintenance. What were you expecting? Perfection?
lolololollol this comment had me literally rofl'ing
"Hey bruv, ye fuckin scared of a little engine stall?"
If it starts you're good! 👍
/s
The engineer “looked at the engine” from the outside. Well it’s still there…. Sign it off as good to go. Like what the actual F there are people flying in these tin cans you know!
Wow! This has really illustrated so many things that go into getting a plane from A to B. And it's also a tangible example of how deeply the Mentor Pilot staff puts every effort into researching the flight process from beginning to end. I've learned so many things in this video alone to make me both horrified and grateful for each and every step in the process of flying such a large aircraft.
It takes a LOT to go wrong, and still a lot to go seamlessly. That being said, there are so many things that are checked and rechecked repeatedly that the likelihood of something going wrong has so many obstacles in the way, that a tragedy is almost never likely to come to fruition.
My Chapeau is off to the every crew member for each and every flight.
I needed this. I had watched a vid a couple days ago where there were only 4 survivers out of 163 in a Christmas holiday flight to ... Columbia think, where an experienced crew hit a mountain because they were impatient and got confused and the final telemetry station was out of action because of guerella activity. The flight crew stopped flying the plane while looking stuff up instead of going "wait, here be mountains" and gaining altitude until things were settled. Unusually I found my self crying for about 15 minutes. What a relief to hear about a flight where most everyone did everything right and prevented something catestrophic.
Cool story bruh
TLDR: CSB
the captain and first officer deserve a bonus after that one! captain handled the situation smoothly and efficiently under pressure, legend
There are no bonuses under capitalism except for making executives richer
Outstanding display of professionalism. I hope every crew I fly with is as good as these guys.
it is not only important for an airline crew.
Clear and exact explanations, briefings and a good team that also understands and is able to do what is needed when an issue arises is the most important thing i nany crew.
As always, your documentaries continue to be better than almost anything on major streaming services like Netflix.
but not better than what's on Nebula :P
Wonderful to have a positive story where the pilots did everything right.
That’s what I thought. Merry Christmas. 🎄
Well, unless it is really common to have problems when starting the engines, I am thinking that this captain could actually have refused to take-off before it was understood what was causing the issue. But questioning the competence of other people is hard and we can't blame him for not being 100% perfect.
The technician who kept getting more and more canisters of kathon to pour into the wings and engineer using the wrong engine checklist are of course the ones at fault here. ☝️
I can't believe how many times this plane had engine trouble and still flew.
Ey man an engineer looked at it. It shouldve been fine, just unlucky. 19:05
I love that each time there is a problem like this, the entire industry reacted to fix it. And the air crew must be beaming from all the praise! I would be.
A good feeling to see this example of professionalism by the flight crews that gave this incident a happy ending and has made air travel as safe as it is today.
I am not a pilot but that pat on the back still felt very nice. I am an aviation enthusiast and I know quite a few pilots personally. To often the general public don't realize how hard it is to master these machines and yet these pilots manage to provide one of the safest ways to travel.
good to have one with a good ending. the fuel shock treatment really seems like something that there should be a specialized fitting to ensure proper metering and mixing of the fuel additive.
on a related note, I've had contaminated fuel in a ground vehicle, and I have seen the kind of strange engine behavior it can cause.
Normally the additive is loaded onto a tank on the fuel truck where it’s mixed with the uploaded fuel.
I just find it amazing that all these other flights took place, without seemingly no real issues, after the botched maintenance.
Two other flights, only one without issues.
Fouling takes time to build. The buildup of the contaminants in the turbines took time as the offending substances worked from the tank to the engine. All of the affected components can tolerate some nonsense, some more than others, but eventually there was so much nonsense in the system that nothing worked properly and very bad things started happening. Considering the seriousness of the problem, in one sense, this couldn't have gone better; had this issue occurred 20 flight minutes earlier, lives might well have been lost.
Thanks!
Thank you so much for your support!!
If the mechanic put the aircraft number in the Troubleshooting Manual search..... he should have come up with the correct TSM reference for whatever engines were installed on that airframe. And as far as the Borescope inspection, that is normally a very specialized training. At our airline it is done by dedicated inspectors who first received the specialized training, and then must maintain that qualification. This is so you have people doing borescopes that know what they are looking at.
I ordered a "This is how I roll" T for my good friend Bill. Former USAF pilot. Taught computer science for 30 years at local university. Beloved in the community. T is supposed to be here Wednesday. Can't wait to see the look on his and his wife's faces.
Amazing! Feel free to send us some pictures once he gets it!
@@MentourPilot I sure will. Hope to deliver tomorrow.
Absolutely love your videos! Now I'm even thinking about becoming a pilot :D (I'm 15). Much love from Estonia ❤
I have watched so many of your videos and I have to say these two flight crews are probably my favourites in any incident I have watched. I noted especially that one of the captains was only 28, and while age doesn't equate necessarily to experience, I'm still really impressed and happy that you covered this incident.
Thank you and your team for a year of excellent videos, here's to a happy festive period and happy new year 2023!
From the viewers responses, I can be sure that this video is a proof that negative news does not have to get all the attention. If presented properly like this video, positive news can also get the same level of attention. My Hats Off to Mentour team!
With cases like this, the fact that everyone returned safely is all that mattered.
No, its not ALL that mattered, the trail of mistakes that could.d have easily lead to a crash is truly scary. Per the MAX crashes, pilots should dnot have to compensate for the negligence of ground support or aircraft mfgs.
@@gregoryschmitz2131 Agreed, but I’m still very happy to see an episode where the pilots won and saved their aircraft for once.
Didpsowix
Ugej8 ew1
Great way to end Xmas day. All the best to you and the family Mentour! Just reserved our flight to England in Feb, which was one of the biggest dreams of my dad. Merry Christmas. ♥️
Brother Petter, Thank you for these Informative Videos which inculcate me with the Knowledge of Aviation. I have never sat on any Aircraft as of now but, I have seen the insights of a Cockpit and I have learnt many Technical Concepts of Aviation through your videos especially, these Accident Video Series.
I like the way you represent the whole Accident Scenario which actually thrills me and helps me in understanding Aviation better.
I was very amazed by your video on How a Passenger can land an Aircraft Safely in the time of an Emergency.
Keep up this Good Work, Brother. God is with you. Take Care.
Last but not the least, 💐Wishing you a Very 🌟Merry and Joyous🌟 🥞🎄Christmas🎄. (in advance)💐
hes our captain ;)
I agree with you 💯
Same here man! If ever the shit would hit the fan on an Airbus or Boeing I am on one, these videos have taught me so much I 'think' I would be able to contact ATC, and let someone talk me down on autoland.
You have taught me more about advanced theory and operation than any other resource that I have ever been exposed to, Including 1 year of ground school. You are extremely sharp on your subject matter which make your new breakdown videos even more interesting. So yeah, you surely deserve more than subscriptions.
A professional, detailed and engaging presentation of an unusual situation. Thank you Petter and team and I wish you all a very merry Christmas 🎉
I was in the US Navy, when we did maintenance on any of our electronic equipment, we use a planed maintenance card that has explicit step by step directions a 6th grader can follow. Very detailed and no matter how many times you did it, you were REQUIRED to follow every single step in order. If you failed to do so and were found out? common punishment was reduction in rank, extra duty for a month, restriction to the ship for a month and half pay for at least one month if not 2. They did not screw around with maintenance. You did it properly or suffered the consequences. Sounds like they need a few more of those kind of planned maintenance cards for this kind of stuff.
And the punishment.😅
I can’t stop watching your videos (80% done so far, lol). I’m just a private pilot but there are a lot that I can learn from these commercial aviation events. Thanks very much for these phenomenal contents!
No one is ‘just’ a private pilot. You fly!! You are one of the few luckiest people in world history!