In life your choices dont affect the ending... you die no matter what. Choices in games dont need to affect the end of the game as long as they affect *how* you get there.
For Cyberpunk only *main* missions have any *real* options, as well as *real* changes. The rest all have minor options... and minor changes. That actually seems appropriate to me. There are 5 separate endings. They all rely on choices made. How you played, what dialogue and playstyle options you took, and how others feel about you. Did you go stealth? Or guns blazing? It changes things in other quests. It can open *or close* options in these sidequests. And can certainly change the dialogues. Are you a Nomad? Then only you can end up with Jackie's tuned up bike, if you say the right things and have the right skills. This of course is just one *unique* thing, from a part of the story you obviously know well. Where did you send Jackie's body? Yet another choice that matters. But only later. Opens up a whole *extremely* well written quest line, and arguably the best pistol in the game as you level if you chose one way, or makes for heartbreaking complications near the end if you choose another and head down a specific ending path. Did you already take care of Jokoto, the snuff BD maker? Then you can intimidate Woodman later, with ease. Are you a Corpo? Then you can use your unique knowledge in "Gimmie Danger" to walk straight into the compound, without sneaking or being attacked. And I get the *very* strong feeling you never played the expansion. Which is a shame. Because I truly believe you will love it, since your feelings about the Hist matched my own in many ways. And in the end I think you missed the main theme of Cyberpunk (both in this video game and the whole TTRPG itself). You are going to die. *Night City always wins.* It is the true Antagonist. You *will* lose. There can be no other end. What matters is how you lived, how you died... and if anyone even cares to remember you. That game's path takes you down rather different feeling journeys based *entirely* on your choices. Sometimes it is blatant. Sometimes subtle. But always present. Style over substance... it is all Edgerunners have left.
Thanks for your comment. I did have a chance to play the Phantom Liberty expansion and greatly enjoyed it. But the themes and messages of games are not the premise of my video. I'm strictly referring to how games tend to exacerbate the options in the choices you make, when in reality the choice offer very little, to no difference at all. I wasn't going into detail of every mission within the game to showcase elements I liked and didn't like, only did The Pickup mission since it's the one that stood out the most. For as much as the game does well, it drops the ball in its roleplaying elements and substitutes them for more or less the industry standards we see in most RPGs today. I did like the game and its themes and messages, but I even after its expansion it still hasn't lived up to its potential. I'm hoping that the sequel correct a lot of the gripes I personally had with 2077 and makes something truly groundbreaking.
@@MiNiSoTaN I can see your point in a way. I just see how each choice you make does have an effect later on. Ones that open completely new solutions to missions, or close them off. Choices you make in act one can severely change the whole tone of some endings. Which, again due to choices you made, may not even be discovered on a single play. And while I did quite like hogwarts, it's replay value was exactly *zero* for just this reason. I *DO massively agree that the illusion of choice is an issue in video games in general (Oh lord, don't get me started on ME or Starfield for *exactly* that issue), I just honestly do not believe it applies to Cyberpunk. Real changes can be made even from the very beginning that can carry through the entire story, if you also make other choices. As a related but side note, In my own mind I do not see games like BG3 and Cyberpunk in the same way. BG3 actually allows you to create a character that is somewhat less reactive (you only get judged by what you have done in the game) or choose one of the Origin Characters as your main. Cyberpunk does what has become the modern concept of a roleplaying game... in that you, the player, take on a role they have written a story for and make choices for that character within the limits of that role. Somewhat akin to playing a part in an improvised but guided play. Modern RPGs is literally "playing out a role". Playing as any of the Origin characters in BG3 is exactly this as well (with way more cause and effect). Playing as Tav... well that is the closest I have seen in a video game to what a TTRPG is.
I disagree when you say ‘life paths don’t make a difference in Cyberpunk’. Although it may not have a SIGNIFICANT difference, choosing different life paths offer different dialogue choices, which in return allows missions to be completed in a different way. For example, in the mission where you and Takamura scout the Militech base, if you’re a ‘Corpo’ you’re able to speak to the guard standing at the gate and convince him to let you in. This lets you walk around the base freely, and complete the mission with ease. You could make the point that you still get the same result whichever life path you choose, therefor making the life path choice is still useless, however as one commenter has already stated “at some level… player choices have to be routed down to some constrained set of resolutions.” Good video overall though👍🏿
Thank you for your comment! I probably did downplay the differences when choosing separate life paths (like you mentioned with additional options when completing a mission) however, for how heavily the element was promoted, I still feel like lifepaths were heavily under developed which CDPR has admitted to and wants to focus on for the sequel.
This entire gripe is nonsensical. It doesn't make sense to have *full* flexibility in storytelling in a packaged product like a video game, especially an immersive RPG, the game would be *infinitely* large, which is impossible. At some level, always and forever, player choices *have* to be routed down to some constrained set of resolutions. It's ridiculous to think that a singular product could ever allow for complete adaptability. If you want that kind of gameplay, go play a real life TTRPG.
I would heavily disagree that it's nonsensical to talk about. Player choice is one of, if not the most important element in what makes a truly immersive RPG. I believe there is definitely a fine line we can draw between the "illusion of choice" scenario and a game with literal infinite possibilities, which you pointed out, yes, would be impossible. But with the advancements in technology in only the past decade, I don't believe it's far fetched to say that we could see quests, npcs, stories and dialogue, adapt in real time given a players choice with games in the near future. Are some constraints needed to adhere to the major elements of a game? Of course, but increasing flexibility, if done correctly would be an absolute net positive for the player.
@MiNiSoTaN there is something of that in BG3, for instance. Insofar as many quests can be completed in various ways, but you can't just f*ck off to waterdeep, for instance.
@@daniellewis3330 BG3 was the last game I brought up in my video which I think is on the cutting edge of player choice that I hope more games can lean into. Expanding the world isn't a requirement for this.
this comment is nonsensical the movie like games such as detroit become human have multiple endings depending on your choices from the game. In an rpg this is even more necessary because it makes the player feel like there were real cosequences for your actions and makes replaying the games more rewarding as to see how you can get a different ending based off different choices. When a game has only two endings with so many choices it makes playing the game again a slog and not worth it.if your choices dont matter why have choices just make it a regular game at that point
To be fair CP Backgrounds are just like D&D backgrounds. Character RP fluff that typically doesn't really do anything. What actually affected the things you describe in CP tabletop was the classes(Roles) which don't actually exist 2077. Probably one the hardest to implement would of been Netrunners. Who spent the most of the time playing a completely different game than the rest of the party at the table. Main issue with CP2077 is that its true to the RPG its based on, rather going the lazy route of being a action adventure game. All that aside all scripted video games give the illusion of choice, this is unavoidable. Making real meaningful branching paths becomes exponentially costly for development. Just look at BG3, where they spent so much time developing Act 1 in early access that they realized it was eating up the entire runway budget, so Act 2 and 3 got streamlined and rushed.
you actually cooked with this vid
Cooked with the detail surprised this doesn't have more views
Cyberpunk actually has one single additional quest per life path, I believe all of them give you some kind of collectable.
Yes, I was wrong, each lifepath does have one exclusive quest with a reward at the end although I don't remember them being anything extraordinary.
a mighty Skol from nyc!!! Was just thinking about the pointlessness of choice while replaying the bioshock series. Great minds!!!
Loved this. You hit the nail on the head.
very enjoyable video bro keep up the good work!
In life your choices dont affect the ending... you die no matter what. Choices in games dont need to affect the end of the game as long as they affect *how* you get there.
For Cyberpunk only *main* missions have any *real* options, as well as *real* changes. The rest all have minor options... and minor changes.
That actually seems appropriate to me.
There are 5 separate endings. They all rely on choices made. How you played, what dialogue and playstyle options you took, and how others feel about you. Did you go stealth? Or guns blazing? It changes things in other quests. It can open *or close* options in these sidequests. And can certainly change the dialogues.
Are you a Nomad? Then only you can end up with Jackie's tuned up bike, if you say the right things and have the right skills. This of course is just one *unique* thing, from a part of the story you obviously know well.
Where did you send Jackie's body? Yet another choice that matters. But only later. Opens up a whole *extremely* well written quest line, and arguably the best pistol in the game as you level if you chose one way, or makes for heartbreaking complications near the end if you choose another and head down a specific ending path.
Did you already take care of Jokoto, the snuff BD maker? Then you can intimidate Woodman later, with ease.
Are you a Corpo? Then you can use your unique knowledge in "Gimmie Danger" to walk straight into the compound, without sneaking or being attacked.
And I get the *very* strong feeling you never played the expansion. Which is a shame. Because I truly believe you will love it, since your feelings about the Hist matched my own in many ways.
And in the end I think you missed the main theme of Cyberpunk (both in this video game and the whole TTRPG itself). You are going to die. *Night City always wins.* It is the true Antagonist. You *will* lose. There can be no other end.
What matters is how you lived, how you died... and if anyone even cares to remember you.
That game's path takes you down rather different feeling journeys based *entirely* on your choices. Sometimes it is blatant. Sometimes subtle. But always present.
Style over substance... it is all Edgerunners have left.
Thanks for your comment. I did have a chance to play the Phantom Liberty expansion and greatly enjoyed it. But the themes and messages of games are not the premise of my video. I'm strictly referring to how games tend to exacerbate the options in the choices you make, when in reality the choice offer very little, to no difference at all.
I wasn't going into detail of every mission within the game to showcase elements I liked and didn't like, only did The Pickup mission since it's the one that stood out the most.
For as much as the game does well, it drops the ball in its roleplaying elements and substitutes them for more or less the industry standards we see in most RPGs today. I did like the game and its themes and messages, but I even after its expansion it still hasn't lived up to its potential. I'm hoping that the sequel correct a lot of the gripes I personally had with 2077 and makes something truly groundbreaking.
@@MiNiSoTaN I can see your point in a way.
I just see how each choice you make does have an effect later on. Ones that open completely new solutions to missions, or close them off.
Choices you make in act one can severely change the whole tone of some endings. Which, again due to choices you made, may not even be discovered on a single play.
And while I did quite like hogwarts, it's replay value was exactly *zero* for just this reason.
I *DO massively agree that the illusion of choice is an issue in video games in general (Oh lord, don't get me started on ME or Starfield for *exactly* that issue), I just honestly do not believe it applies to Cyberpunk. Real changes can be made even from the very beginning that can carry through the entire story, if you also make other choices.
As a related but side note, In my own mind I do not see games like BG3 and Cyberpunk in the same way.
BG3 actually allows you to create a character that is somewhat less reactive (you only get judged by what you have done in the game) or choose one of the Origin Characters as your main.
Cyberpunk does what has become the modern concept of a roleplaying game... in that you, the player, take on a role they have written a story for and make choices for that character within the limits of that role. Somewhat akin to playing a part in an improvised but guided play.
Modern RPGs is literally "playing out a role".
Playing as any of the Origin characters in BG3 is exactly this as well (with way more cause and effect).
Playing as Tav... well that is the closest I have seen in a video game to what a TTRPG is.
I love the vids TH-cam has been putting in my feed lately from these smaller creators
I've noticed it too. They have done a great job of showing other smaller creators that put out some great content. Thanks for the comment!
I disagree when you say ‘life paths don’t make a difference in Cyberpunk’. Although it may not have a SIGNIFICANT difference, choosing different life paths offer different dialogue choices, which in return allows missions to be completed in a different way.
For example, in the mission where you and Takamura scout the Militech base, if you’re a ‘Corpo’ you’re able to speak to the guard standing at the gate and convince him to let you in. This lets you walk around the base freely, and complete the mission with ease.
You could make the point that you still get the same result whichever life path you choose, therefor making the life path choice is still useless, however as one commenter has already stated “at some level… player choices have to be routed down to some constrained set of resolutions.”
Good video overall though👍🏿
Thank you for your comment! I probably did downplay the differences when choosing separate life paths (like you mentioned with additional options when completing a mission) however, for how heavily the element was promoted, I still feel like lifepaths were heavily under developed which CDPR has admitted to and wants to focus on for the sequel.
Oh shit I live in MN wonder if that’s why I got the recommendation. Really liked the vid, gonna check out some more and might binge a bit
Don’t forget to like
This entire gripe is nonsensical.
It doesn't make sense to have *full* flexibility in storytelling in a packaged product like a video game, especially an immersive RPG, the game would be *infinitely* large, which is impossible.
At some level, always and forever, player choices *have* to be routed down to some constrained set of resolutions.
It's ridiculous to think that a singular product could ever allow for complete adaptability.
If you want that kind of gameplay, go play a real life TTRPG.
I would heavily disagree that it's nonsensical to talk about. Player choice is one of, if not the most important element in what makes a truly immersive RPG. I believe there is definitely a fine line we can draw between the "illusion of choice" scenario and a game with literal infinite possibilities, which you pointed out, yes, would be impossible. But with the advancements in technology in only the past decade, I don't believe it's far fetched to say that we could see quests, npcs, stories and dialogue, adapt in real time given a players choice with games in the near future. Are some constraints needed to adhere to the major elements of a game? Of course, but increasing flexibility, if done correctly would be an absolute net positive for the player.
@MiNiSoTaN there is something of that in BG3, for instance. Insofar as many quests can be completed in various ways, but you can't just f*ck off to waterdeep, for instance.
@@daniellewis3330 BG3 was the last game I brought up in my video which I think is on the cutting edge of player choice that I hope more games can lean into. Expanding the world isn't a requirement for this.
this comment is nonsensical the movie like games such as detroit become human have multiple endings depending on your choices from the game. In an rpg this is even more necessary because it makes the player feel like there were real cosequences for your actions and makes replaying the games more rewarding as to see how you can get a different ending based off different choices. When a game has only two endings with so many choices it makes playing the game again a slog and not worth it.if your choices dont matter why have choices just make it a regular game at that point
To be fair CP Backgrounds are just like D&D backgrounds. Character RP fluff that typically doesn't really do anything. What actually affected the things you describe in CP tabletop was the classes(Roles) which don't actually exist 2077. Probably one the hardest to implement would of been Netrunners. Who spent the most of the time playing a completely different game than the rest of the party at the table. Main issue with CP2077 is that its true to the RPG its based on, rather going the lazy route of being a action adventure game.
All that aside all scripted video games give the illusion of choice, this is unavoidable. Making real meaningful branching paths becomes exponentially costly for development. Just look at BG3, where they spent so much time developing Act 1 in early access that they realized it was eating up the entire runway budget, so Act 2 and 3 got streamlined and rushed.
Nothing will ever compare to DnD with friends at a table
Cyberpunk has become such a must-play in my eyes
This video is bussin bussin, ong fr fr. chef cooked this one fo sho... No shit though, this shit is very well put together, good shit.
When my choice don’t matter 😢