"fibreglass is heavy because it's resin rich, that's why won't do anything do get rid of excess resin" If you don't have same standards for carbon and fibreglass composites, this is just a carbon ad.
What a TOTAL load of bullshit. I have been in the Industry 26 years. YOU are just marketing your product. By weight, carbon fiber and fibre-glass are the same weight. Period. The difference is in the structural loading each material can take. Fibre-glass can do 170 MPH down the drag strip just like the Carbon you mentioned - and at the same weight ! You have to compare the materials through the same processes. If you vac bag the carbon, you should vac bag the glass AND ONLY THEN "compare them". Clown ! Of course there will be a difference between vac bagging and hand lay!! One process leaves the excesses resin in the product. The other takes out ALL the resin except for what is in the fibres of the material. Know wonder there is a difference in weight ! Can not be bothered explaining it to you in detail, but STOP telling stories!
So my spoiler fell off, for a new spoiler on my car what would you recommend as the best, also mid grade, and cheapest material options I could buy? In your opinion & with your experience.
Why are you not using S glass? It sounds like you’re using heavy E glass mat or something like it. S glass is definitely not as stiff as carbon fiber composites for the same structural design, but it withstands impacts that will shatter a carbon part. Also a bit stronger than all but the very best carbon fiber fabrics. It certainly is a bit heavier than the best carbon fiber fabrics approaching or exceeding its strength, but it is quite a bit lighter (and stiffer) than E glass for a given strength. It also does not have the electrolytic or bimetal corrosion issues that carbon does, especially with aluminum parts. If weight and stiffness are the only factors, then nothing beats high end carbon fiber composites today. But for those of us who don’t have deep pockets that can keep turning out CF parts for our hot rods and street rockets (or aircraft, in my case), S glass is an excellent option that gets you most of the way to the weight savings with better strength and nearly the stiffness for a given structure, without worrying about corrosion or breaking the bank.
@@pawek9528 although s glass is heavier and has some cons it also has lot of pros over carbon fibre and it can be up to 5 times cheaper depending upon where you get it from
He clearly mentioned that fiberglass droops. -- It depends on the application. For stiffness critical applications, here's something to think about: Hexcel AS4C and S2 glass are darn-near the same tensile strength. Density is 1.78 g/cc for the carbon, 2.5g/cc for the S-glass, so the fiberglass part might weigh up to 40% more depending on the design, but when compared to a steel skin, the difference is so big, it doesn't matter. The main difference is the modulus of elasticity. 5.2% for the S glass, 1.8% for the carbon, so the fiberglass will flex almost 3-times (2.89x) as much as the carbon does simply under its own weight. -- If we ignore nominal droop and compare S glass to commercial grade carbon at 300 ksi strength, the fiberglass is less than half the price, and it'll flex 6-times as far as the carbon part will before it breaks, which is an obvious win for fiberglass. -- If you need street-driven durability, here's my suggestion: Sandwich 1-2 layers of S2 glass between 2-4 layers of something else like Nylon, Innegra, or even polyester. Paint it pearl-white when you're done, so the sun doesn't mess up the epoxy.
Thanks Mr. Tim, I have one question. If the car exterior is left unpainted or painted black will the suns heat in that black color 170+ temperature effect the carbon resin?
the same goes for carbon fiber if its processed without a vac-process. Glass fibre has a lot of superior propperties compared to carbon. Expecialy its lower modulus makes it much more impact resistant since it can deform and absorb energy and distribute it on a far bigger surface. Stiffness is a different thing. People dont get what a great material glass fibre is for its price.
Man dude you are right. They talk about carbon fiber being stronger. I worked for a major airline doing fiberglass repairs on all the flight controls and nose radomes. They fly at 600 miles and hour and repairs held up fine
Yes, it can definitely be repaired. That is the subject on one of the upcoming videos in this series where we take you through the process of making a repair.
I have a question about glass or carbon helmets! I bought my boy a racing go kart and in looking for a carbon helmet for him thinking the lighter the better. a fellow crew guy said he thought glass is better because it’s not as ridged and will transfer less energy to his head. It really made me think about if a stiff ridged Helmet is the best way to go. He is racing road corse box stock . I’m a drag racer but I want my boy to turn corners 🤣🤣🤣
Great video I was curious say someone wanted a Carbon Kelver body would that body be Bulletproof? also are would if have to use so many layers it would be pointless and cost to much thanks for the video 📷
There is do much misinformation about carbon fiber verses glass fiber. Carbon is stiffer but not stronger. E glass has more resilience than carbon fibre. S glass even more again. Saying 'stronger' therefore is a bit misleading.
What are you talking about? Why not vac the Glass fibre? There is no problem in doing so. It is the only real construction method, if a part needs to be strong and durable but light.
@@nix324 Definitely not. Every (absolutely every!) professional part is created under a pressure difference. Pressing resin out will reduce the weight dramatically while not loosing any durability. It also helps to adhere the layers even better. If you want a part that is defineable as "Good" or "Very good" you need to use the proper technique. It is like steel concrete (more below!). You can also save a lot of money as a side effect. If you suck in the resin under vacuum you basically use as little as even possible. This can be combined with pressure from the outside. Which often is used for construction grade parts. It can also be usefull to include a core inside the layers. This would be at best a honeycomb structure, that is stiff and has voids. The inside of every part typically has no force applied to it no matter which way it bends. It just cancels out from inside being compressed and outside being streched. The core however needs to resist sliding and has to have good grip on the resin. This creates a much stronger part with barely any weight gain. Fibre material is very expensive, so this is almost always worth it for performance part. But it really depends on the use case. Material science is one of the most interesting forms of science, period! The only limit is, what can you think of? It requires some moderate knowledge of basic physics (mechanics). Often even more. Think of a reinforced part with a carbon fibre honeycomb core which is reinfoced through additional geometry and has a tube length of 1cm. Now on the outside add 3 layers of thick carbon fibre (multidirectional type). You can jump on it and it will not bend at all (visible to the eye) This would be insanely complex to manufacture the core and very expensive to state the obvious, but I hope this helps you understand how important the right combination of materials is in composites and what technice to use. . If you want to build a bridge properly, you actually have to work with high tension on every single piece of reinforcement. The stability often does not change at all, but the durability increases dramatically (like twice as durable). With concrete this for example means less cracks because of the tension. The cracks would grow and let water to the reinforcement. This would cause rust and drive the concrete apart completely, since it would expand a lot!
You don't have to vacuum bag either one. In a racing application, many parts are unwieldy and difficult to bag. You can use corrugated structures to achieve good structure without core material. You bag the corrugation structures and use those to support a skin that is made borderline resin poor in a wet layup process.
Christian Williams you can if you want, not so much with glass mat , but fibreglass cloth we often bag with epoxy resin ( as opposed to the much cheaper polyester of GRP) for the weight saving and the product we make we cannot use carbon as it blocks RF, but fibreglass/ polyester is usually used because it is cheap as chips, bagging ain’t cheap because it is time consuming, needs more expensive resins and uses quite some consumables, hence if you are going to the effort and cost of vacuum bagging, spend the extra on carbon cloth and get a stronger lighter product. At least , that is my take.
Man that shit looks great! You guys produce an amazing product! Love this guy for taking the time out of your day to spread this knowledge to those who don't quite understand this sort of shit!
I am sorry but I disagree to the statement that Carbon Fiber is stronger then EGlass or SGlass. Carbon Fiber is Stiffer not stronger. The tensile strength is cfrp is less the fiber glass. But you have more elongation on fiber glass, there is more flex and it has better tensile strength on fiber glass compared to carbon fiber.
You imagine having a vehicle that's made out of pure steel and a fiberglass vehicle just crashes into your vehicle pierced thick steel and ready to smash
"fibreglass is heavy because it's resin rich, that's why won't do anything do get rid of excess resin"
If you don't have same standards for carbon and fibreglass composites, this is just a carbon ad.
pro tip : you can watch series on Kaldrostream. I've been using it for watching loads of movies during the lockdown.
@Giovanni Jerome Yea, I have been using kaldrostream for since december myself =)
@Giovanni Jerome yea, have been watching on KaldroStream for since december myself =)
What a TOTAL load of bullshit.
I have been in the Industry 26 years.
YOU are just marketing your product.
By weight, carbon fiber and fibre-glass are the same weight. Period. The difference is in the structural loading each material can take. Fibre-glass can do 170 MPH down the drag strip just like the Carbon you mentioned - and at the same weight !
You have to compare the materials through the same processes. If you vac bag the carbon, you should vac bag the glass AND ONLY THEN "compare them". Clown !
Of course there will be a difference between vac bagging and hand lay!! One process leaves the excesses resin in the product. The other takes out ALL the resin except for what is in the fibres of the material. Know wonder there is a difference in weight !
Can not be bothered explaining it to you in detail, but STOP telling stories!
So my spoiler fell off, for a new spoiler on my car what would you recommend as the best, also mid grade, and cheapest material options I could buy? In your opinion & with your experience.
Why are you not using S glass? It sounds like you’re using heavy E glass mat or something like it. S glass is definitely not as stiff as carbon fiber composites for the same structural design, but it withstands impacts that will shatter a carbon part. Also a bit stronger than all but the very best carbon fiber fabrics. It certainly is a bit heavier than the best carbon fiber fabrics approaching or exceeding its strength, but it is quite a bit lighter (and stiffer) than E glass for a given strength. It also does not have the electrolytic or bimetal corrosion issues that carbon does, especially with aluminum parts. If weight and stiffness are the only factors, then nothing beats high end carbon fiber composites today. But for those of us who don’t have deep pockets that can keep turning out CF parts for our hot rods and street rockets (or aircraft, in my case), S glass is an excellent option that gets you most of the way to the weight savings with better strength and nearly the stiffness for a given structure, without worrying about corrosion or breaking the bank.
Yeah, E & S glass are distinct, but everyone treats them interchangeably. S glass can give Carbon a run for its money.
@@pawek9528 although s glass is heavier and has some cons it also has lot of pros over carbon fibre and it can be up to 5 times cheaper depending upon where you get it from
He clearly mentioned that fiberglass droops.
-- It depends on the application. For stiffness critical applications, here's something to think about:
Hexcel AS4C and S2 glass are darn-near the same tensile strength. Density is 1.78 g/cc for the carbon, 2.5g/cc for the S-glass, so the fiberglass part might weigh up to 40% more depending on the design, but when compared to a steel skin, the difference is so big, it doesn't matter. The main difference is the modulus of elasticity. 5.2% for the S glass, 1.8% for the carbon, so the fiberglass will flex almost 3-times (2.89x) as much as the carbon does simply under its own weight.
-- If we ignore nominal droop and compare S glass to commercial grade carbon at 300 ksi strength, the fiberglass is less than half the price, and it'll flex 6-times as far as the carbon part will before it breaks, which is an obvious win for fiberglass.
-- If you need street-driven durability, here's my suggestion: Sandwich 1-2 layers of S2 glass between 2-4 layers of something else like Nylon, Innegra, or even polyester. Paint it pearl-white when you're done, so the sun doesn't mess up the epoxy.
With your knowledge how does Basalt fibre conpare?
Thanks Mr. Tim, I have one question. If the car exterior is left unpainted or painted black will the suns heat in that black color 170+ temperature effect the carbon resin?
the same goes for carbon fiber if its processed without a vac-process. Glass fibre has a lot of superior propperties compared to carbon. Expecialy its lower modulus makes it much more impact resistant since it can deform and absorb energy and distribute it on a far bigger surface. Stiffness is a different thing. People dont get what a great material glass fibre is for its price.
Man dude you are right. They talk about carbon fiber being stronger. I worked for a major airline doing fiberglass repairs on all the flight controls and nose radomes. They fly at 600 miles and hour and repairs held up fine
How repairable is carbon after it gets a little road rash on it . I know glass can be repaired
Yes, it can definitely be repaired. That is the subject on one of the upcoming videos in this series where we take you through the process of making a repair.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing the knowledge. One question. Is all carbon bagged, or are some people making fibre glass with carbon?
Do you guys do carbon reinforced fiberglass to add rigidity in places where you might get deflection like in the hood? Or seats?
I have a question about glass or carbon helmets! I bought my boy a racing go kart and in looking for a carbon helmet for him thinking the lighter the better. a fellow crew guy said he thought glass is better because it’s not as ridged and will transfer less energy to his head. It really made me think about if a stiff ridged Helmet is the best way to go. He is racing road corse box stock . I’m a drag racer but I want my boy to turn corners 🤣🤣🤣
Great video I was curious say someone wanted a Carbon Kelver body would that body be Bulletproof? also are would if have to use so many layers it would be pointless and cost to much thanks for the video 📷
Thank you sir for a great video. It just reinforces my principles to buy the BEST once period. If you can't afford it be patient and save your money.
I thought this was a video went out the pros and cons of both but it turns out this was very biased towards carbon fiber thank you very much
There is do much misinformation about carbon fiber verses glass fiber. Carbon is stiffer but not stronger. E glass has more resilience than carbon fibre. S glass even more again. Saying 'stronger' therefore is a bit misleading.
what would be the result of vacuum bagging fiberglass panels?
that's what I was going to ask. AFAIK, vacuum bagging is used on fiberglass also.
That said, how about those composite bodies!? great looking product.
What are you talking about? Why not vac the Glass fibre? There is no problem in doing so. It is the only real construction method, if a part needs to be strong and durable but light.
@@nix324 Definitely not. Every (absolutely every!) professional part is created under a pressure difference. Pressing resin out will reduce the weight dramatically while not loosing any durability. It also helps to adhere the layers even better. If you want a part that is defineable as "Good" or "Very good" you need to use the proper technique. It is like steel concrete (more below!). You can also save a lot of money as a side effect. If you suck in the resin under vacuum you basically use as little as even possible. This can be combined with pressure from the outside. Which often is used for construction grade parts.
It can also be usefull to include a core inside the layers. This would be at best a honeycomb structure, that is stiff and has voids. The inside of every part typically has no force applied to it no matter which way it bends. It just cancels out from inside being compressed and outside being streched. The core however needs to resist sliding and has to have good grip on the resin. This creates a much stronger part with barely any weight gain. Fibre material is very expensive, so this is almost always worth it for performance part.
But it really depends on the use case. Material science is one of the most interesting forms of science, period! The only limit is, what can you think of? It requires some moderate knowledge of basic physics (mechanics). Often even more. Think of a reinforced part with a carbon fibre honeycomb core which is reinfoced through additional geometry and has a tube length of 1cm. Now on the outside add 3 layers of thick carbon fibre (multidirectional type).
You can jump on it and it will not bend at all (visible to the eye) This would be insanely complex to manufacture the core and very expensive to state the obvious, but I hope this helps you understand how important the right combination of materials is in composites and what technice to use.
.
If you want to build a bridge properly, you actually have to work with high tension on every single piece of reinforcement. The stability often does not change at all, but the durability increases dramatically (like twice as durable). With concrete this for example means less cracks because of the tension. The cracks would grow and let water to the reinforcement. This would cause rust and drive the concrete apart completely, since it would expand a lot!
@@nix324 I read some the comment before you removed most. I think that sounds very interesting. Have fun with that. :)
You don't have to vacuum bag either one. In a racing application, many parts are unwieldy and difficult to bag. You can use corrugated structures to achieve good structure without core material. You bag the corrugation structures and use those to support a skin that is made borderline resin poor in a wet layup process.
Hey is there a general ratio of the weight of a vehicle's sheet metal to the vehicle's total weight?
Thx
do you do custom orders?
If I wanted to make a carbon fiber door for my street truck should I use carbon fiber or carbon fiber Kevlar
interesting, why are you not using Pre-preq Material for your high performance parts?
What about painting can a carbon fiber body be painted.
Why don’t you bag the fiberglass?!
Christian Williams you can if you want, not so much with glass mat , but fibreglass cloth we often bag with epoxy resin ( as opposed to the much cheaper polyester of GRP) for the weight saving and the product we make we cannot use carbon as it blocks RF, but fibreglass/ polyester is usually used because it is cheap as chips, bagging ain’t cheap because it is time consuming, needs more expensive resins and uses quite some consumables, hence if you are going to the effort and cost of vacuum bagging, spend the extra on carbon cloth and get a stronger lighter product. At least , that is my take.
@@ForeverNeverwhere1 Very good observation. Thanks for sharing you experience :)
why dont you vacuum fiberglass?
Carbon Fiber is not stronger than fiberglass. It is STIFFER, but not stronger.
I want to work there 😎
What resin is that ? That crumbles by hand ? Not epoxy that's for sure. Why not vacuum bag fiber glass ?
Man that shit looks great! You guys produce an amazing product! Love this guy for taking the time out of your day to spread this knowledge to those who don't quite understand this sort of shit!
All of the fiberglass parts that I have, no one offers is carbon. I wish they did, that would have been my preferred choice.
I am sorry but I disagree to the statement that Carbon Fiber is stronger then EGlass or SGlass. Carbon Fiber is Stiffer not stronger. The tensile strength is cfrp is less the fiber glass. But you have more elongation on fiber glass, there is more flex and it has better tensile strength on fiber glass compared to carbon fiber.
Sorry Big Daddy
That’s not a fair comparison. A conglomeration of both is best! Ask Peter @ Skater Race boats
giving away missleading info to promote carbon...
You imagine having a vehicle that's made out of pure steel and a fiberglass vehicle just crashes into your vehicle pierced thick steel and ready to smash
Not sure if fiberglass filler can repair carbon fiber parts.
i heard S glass has higher compression strength than carbon fiber
Yes that is correct
This guy does one of the best videos I have seen on stregth to weight and stiffness to weight of the different composites we tend to use.
Because fiberglass is silicon-based. Concrete is silicon-based and it can hold crushing weight forever.
DO YOU GUYS MAKE CARBEN FIBER PARTS SAY YES PLEASE
Hi, in new to doing carbon parts. Can I do a fiberglass part with polyester resin, and skin it with carbon fiber? Would there be any issues with that?
1:20 watch the glitch in the matrix in top right corner! Fucking so odd. Ive watched this 20 times and dont understand what happened?
Yoooo what 🤡🤡that’s weird
Fucking trippy!
You lump all FG into just FG. How does S class FG compair in these comparisons compared with standard CSM.
Don't use CSM for racing parts. S-glass is superior in every way. If you use interior corrugations, it'll be on-par with carbon parts.
excellent thank you
Great video, but disappointed there was no reference to “fucktards” 😀
Double the weight my ass
Sounds pretty good to me. Thanks. I build carbon velomobiel unibodies, check out pushyhog channel.
This is bullshit. You can bag fiberglass. And it works. Just add