@@agreeable4334 the body of the 8.8cm shell was strongly bent in two directions due to the sharp nose, the body of the 85mm shell was treated much more gently due to its flat tip
@@kunstderfugue people like you think nuetronium is really strong. Yeah, 10^12 times strength for 10^16 times dense. Just like the same people think 5 times density is a good comparison against 1 times density.
@@menjolno I don't think he's referring to the effect of the filling as inert mass, but the blast generated by it, that can potentially push some chunks of metal through the last bits of armour in certain cases.
I wouldn't call it an almost pen, but the same logic applies. If there's an "almost penetration" as marginal as to make the filler make the difference, there shouldn't already be enough spalling to make it still negligible.
@@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 According to the Soviets themselves, the IS-7 could fire back at 1 kilometer. But what happens if we put it at 500 meters? Let's hack the rules a little. 🤓🤠
@@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 I think they are 240mm at 50 degrees, but if you look at the War Thunder or World of Tanks model, you will see that there is a line between the turret and the hull, that would be a weak point.
When you are so early it's in 720p xD Love how in WT the russian 85mm still has this unrealistic, insane angle pen on one shell. 85mm plate bulge in this sim is wild... nearly plastic lol.
It might not be that unrealistic. The issue is that WT only knows extremes. The shell will either enter completely or not. In reality the shell might cause some small breach while in WT the shell goes through the armor and explodes inside. In some ways the 85mm is even underperforming, as it nowadays can not penetrate the Jagdpanzer 38(t)s 60mm at 60° armor, while it should be able to do so.
@@Kuschel_K well, there is "close penetration" with minor spall. But in game tanks need huge amounts of damage unless you kill the crew, so it's kind of pointless anyways.
@@nashaigra8973 I‘m not a huge fan of the damage mechanics in WT. Never made much sense and nowadays it’s the same with planes that feel like flying paper mache. Some shell types overperform and gameplay gets balanced around that, instead of reworking it and making it realistic.
@@Kuschel_K Sometimes planes disintegrate from a single random 7.62 round, other times a helicopter takes a 152mm HE round and it just says "hit". (I've actually seen this happen)
Would be fun to see the difference between the same 8.8cm shell, but the only difference being a rounded tip vs a completely square tip (with ballistic cap on both of course)
I have always wanted to see this against modern NERA. Something like a 128cm APHE against abrams or something like that. Could the shell penetrate the outer layer and explode inside destroying the NERA elements?
I just randomly got an idea for a halloween special (late for this year but maybe next year): Skeleton punch vs tank, but to make it interesting you could put the arm at a speed of a typical APFSDS round!
The issue is that these fuzes simply relay on the impact decelerating forces driving a firing pin into a detonator, or vise versa. But against sloped armor the forces deflecting the shell will simply jam the moving parts in place. Kinda how some aircraft guns can jam during high G manuvers.
I mean the reason that explosive filler is there is because ships are big, so a solid shot penetrating ship are not likely to detonate the magazine and therefore some explosive is needed to increase damage, for tanks that's really not the case.
I really don't know why people would think that grams of HE filler would be able to annihilate the armor that thick. Maybe if it had KV-2 levels of HE then the detonation might've caused spalling but I think it's under 300g for the Tiger right?
Im guessing the amount of explosives in the projectile is to little to actually cause any major damage. Not surprised. I have heard though that in battship calibers, when a shell explodes in the armor, it can cause effects like the shell penatrated fully, or cause even worse damage. Drachinifel made a video discussing the effects of shells on a ship. Can you simulate that and copare it to these if you can/want?
So this is a Sherman front plate i think but would be there any significant difference if it would be a homogenous armor plate? It looks like the thinner top one just gives up and allows the projectile to slip underneath it horizontaly rather then going further into armor.
A sub-caliber projectile would probably penetrate the Sherman Jumbo. The ballistics of the 85mm Soviet gun and the 88mm German gun are very similar. The difference was mainly in the shells themselves. The 85mm anti-aircraft gun of the USSR was essentially an analogue of the 88mm anti-aircraft gun of Germany.
I don't think so - 88 had heavier shell, higher muzzle velocity and was 30 cm longer. If you will calculate the raw kinetic energy of the shell after it was fired, it will be around 15% higher for 88. I wouldn't call that an analogue with no difference except for the shell.
@@thomaszhang3101 this would give better resistance to multiple hits for sure, in case of single shot the monolithic plate is also better, but in this case not by much, maybe due to higher hardness of the upper plate
@@TheJohn_Highway I take a shell and give it speed. To get the effect of a trapered bore gun I would have to model the barrel, or manually bend the body of the shell after it passes through the barrel
@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 i didn't say hesh penetrates armor, I'm just telling the fact that it creates so much spalling in an RHA that it doesn't need to penetrate it
@@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 yeah,but it's just to point out the fact that explosive filler doesn't penetrate armor.But you know what does,n explosive filler focused into a point that it becomes a jet of molten material , that's how panzerfaust works
@@Swiftzerman there is no such thing as "jet of explosion". This is a misleading statement The armor is pierced by a liner, for example copper, which is formed by the explosion.
I dont know what i expected but very similar. The br-365 explosive cavity looks pristine
@@agreeable4334 the body of the 8.8cm shell was strongly bent in two directions due to the sharp nose, the body of the 85mm shell was treated much more gently due to its flat tip
People keep saying that the explosive filler makes the difference in almost-pen situations like these, nice of you to disprove that theory.
um no. explosive filler is less than 5 times as dense as tungsten which means very little filler did very much. so 😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠💢💢💢💢💢💢
@@menjolno how's your emotions doing friend
@@kunstderfugue people like you think nuetronium is really strong. Yeah, 10^12 times strength for 10^16 times dense. Just like the same people think 5 times density is a good comparison against 1 times density.
@@menjolno I don't think he's referring to the effect of the filling as inert mass, but the blast generated by it, that can potentially push some chunks of metal through the last bits of armour in certain cases.
I wouldn't call it an almost pen, but the same logic applies. If there's an "almost penetration" as marginal as to make the filler make the difference, there shouldn't already be enough spalling to make it still negligible.
12.8 cm vs IS-7 front turret at 500 M
@@leonardogandini147 12.8cm will have a hard time, but if the idea is liked, why not
@@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 According to the Soviets themselves, the IS-7 could fire back at 1 kilometer. But what happens if we put it at 500 meters? Let's hack the rules a little. 🤓🤠
@@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 I think they are 240mm at 50 degrees, but if you look at the War Thunder or World of Tanks model, you will see that there is a line between the turret and the hull, that would be a weak point.
@@leonardogandini147 the turret ring is always a weak spot, but there is a small chance of hitting it
IS-7 was designed to resist the 12,8cm cannon of the Jagdtiger and Maus. I would be surprised if it penetrated but I will give spall a chance
For Halloween, could you fire a HE shell at a gigantic skeleton?
😮
Agreed
Pumpkin would be cool as well
One of the two channels that youtube consistently notifies me of for some reason
@@neurofiedyamato8763 good reason i guess
is the other one SY?
When you are so early it's in 720p xD
Love how in WT the russian 85mm still has this unrealistic, insane angle pen on one shell. 85mm plate bulge in this sim is wild... nearly plastic lol.
Check 900m; 50-60 degrees, and you will see no difference
It might not be that unrealistic. The issue is that WT only knows extremes. The shell will either enter completely or not.
In reality the shell might cause some small breach while in WT the shell goes through the armor and explodes inside.
In some ways the 85mm is even underperforming, as it nowadays can not penetrate the Jagdpanzer 38(t)s 60mm at 60° armor, while it should be able to do so.
@@Kuschel_K well, there is "close penetration" with minor spall. But in game tanks need huge amounts of damage unless you kill the crew, so it's kind of pointless anyways.
@@nashaigra8973 I‘m not a huge fan of the damage mechanics in WT. Never made much sense and nowadays it’s the same with planes that feel like flying paper mache.
Some shell types overperform and gameplay gets balanced around that, instead of reworking it and making it realistic.
@@Kuschel_K Sometimes planes disintegrate from a single random 7.62 round, other times a helicopter takes a 152mm HE round and it just says "hit".
(I've actually seen this happen)
Very impressive simulation, thanks.
Very interesting. It’s always cool to see the explosives go off in an edge case.
Would be fun to see the difference between the same 8.8cm shell, but the only difference being a rounded tip vs a completely square tip (with ballistic cap on both of course)
I have always wanted to see this against modern NERA. Something like a 128cm APHE against abrams or something like that. Could the shell penetrate the outer layer and explode inside destroying the NERA elements?
Can you simulate a ZSU-23-4 versus the A-10's titanium bathtub?
Remember kids - spall liners save lives !
incredible sim bro
I just randomly got an idea for a halloween special (late for this year but maybe next year):
Skeleton punch vs tank, but to make it interesting you could put the arm at a speed of a typical APFSDS round!
That Sherman armor was no joke
The issue is that these fuzes simply relay on the impact decelerating forces driving a firing pin into a detonator, or vise versa. But against sloped armor the forces deflecting the shell will simply jam the moving parts in place.
Kinda how some aircraft guns can jam during high G manuvers.
I mean the reason that explosive filler is there is because ships are big, so a solid shot penetrating ship are not likely to detonate the magazine and therefore some explosive is needed to increase damage, for tanks that's really not the case.
the explosive filler is often only a few gram, it's to break apart the round not hammer through steel
I really don't know why people would think that grams of HE filler would be able to annihilate the armor that thick. Maybe if it had KV-2 levels of HE then the detonation might've caused spalling but I think it's under 300g for the Tiger right?
It’s 64g
@kimjanek646 Could swear I read somewhere that it had a shell that had large amounts of filler but idk I'm not a historian
@@exoticdachoo007 You're thinking of the panzergranate, this is the panzergranate 39, which has less filler but better penetration.
@zoro115-s6b Probably yea, I thought it had a big boom round but I didn't know for sure
@@exoticdachoo007 It's a meme in War Thunder, one time I shot the end of a hellcat's barrel with it and it evaporated the entire tank.
Maybe a shell that pens and then explodes? Or maybe one that bearly doesn’t pen, but it’s not one-sided against the armour?
Im guessing the amount of explosives in the projectile is to little to actually cause any major damage. Not surprised. I have heard though that in battship calibers, when a shell explodes in the armor, it can cause effects like the shell penatrated fully, or cause even worse damage. Drachinifel made a video discussing the effects of shells on a ship.
Can you simulate that and copare it to these if you can/want?
Hello Dejmian, could you do a simulation of DM73 apfsds against an armor (15mm titanium+15mm rubber+15mm titanium+15mm boron carbide) x14 layers
Can you do 85mm BR-365 vs Panther F turret front? Lets see if the Panther is safe from 250m.
Oh I want to see wether both 120mm thick front and 60mm cheek can withstand that or not, too
@@Kuschel_K someday, I have so many requests that I would have to make a video every day to handle it
Great video, just add a few more seconds to the frames with text. I have to pause to read it.
So this is a Sherman front plate i think but would be there any significant difference if it would be a homogenous armor plate? It looks like the thinner top one just gives up and allows the projectile to slip underneath it horizontaly rather then going further into armor.
Yes, a single plate of greater thickness is generally considered better than stacked plates for this reason.
0:25 Cheese
Not funny, try again in another day
A sub-caliber projectile would probably penetrate the Sherman Jumbo. The ballistics of the 85mm Soviet gun and the 88mm German gun are very similar. The difference was mainly in the shells themselves. The 85mm anti-aircraft gun of the USSR was essentially an analogue of the 88mm anti-aircraft gun of Germany.
I don't think so - 88 had heavier shell, higher muzzle velocity and was 30 cm longer. If you will calculate the raw kinetic energy of the shell after it was fired, it will be around 15% higher for 88. I wouldn't call that an analogue with no difference except for the shell.
Where is the 85mm one?
Previous vid
@@zeroalpha4818
in the video there is a comparison of the results from two videos 0:58
th-cam.com/video/p4F5V03e2mk/w-d-xo.html
Could Jumbo’s armor be more effective if it was one piece?
@@thomaszhang3101 this would give better resistance to multiple hits for sure, in case of single shot the monolithic plate is also better, but in this case not by much, maybe due to higher hardness of the upper plate
Can Ansys also simulate tapered bore guns?
@@TheJohn_Highway I take a shell and give it speed. To get the effect of a trapered bore gun I would have to model the barrel, or manually bend the body of the shell after it passes through the barrel
Could you make a model of the process of firing a shell through a squeeze bore?
Do the T29 105 vs Russian t54 ufp
People keeps saying explosive filler doees nothing in penetrating armor, wait till I told about them HESH rounds.
@@Swiftzerman HESH does not penetrate armor, nor is it simply a shell with explosives
@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 i didn't say hesh penetrates armor, I'm just telling the fact that it creates so much spalling in an RHA that it doesn't need to penetrate it
@@Swiftzerman you used the phrase penetrating armor
@@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 yeah,but it's just to point out the fact that explosive filler doesn't penetrate armor.But you know what does,n explosive filler focused into a point that it becomes a jet of molten material , that's how panzerfaust works
@@Swiftzerman there is no such thing as "jet of explosion". This is a misleading statement
The armor is pierced by a liner, for example copper, which is formed by the explosion.
👏👏👏
в сколько вышло отличие ?
0:58 comparison of results
@@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 имел ввиду какая разница в % ?
M829 APFSDS vs T-34 driver hatch.
Completely unrealistic. Don't know why people think a simulation = real life.
@@lurtzy_ everything is fine with the simulation, I don't know why you want to judge it since you lack basic knowledge
Maus VS AMX-50 Foch
creampie!
Jippie Pizza Video
real