Hey Nicholas & audio community. I studied audio engineering and took a lot of course’s in the last 20 years. If I could turn back the time this is the Masterclass to invest in!
6:58 THANK YOU! Finally someone talks about the problem with using EQ after clipping generating tilt, especially low pass and high pass filtering. In my experience, even the AC coupling filter on an interface input is enough high pass filtering to introduce it.
Would this suggest that clipping on individual tracks/buses is a bad move? I usually do a cascade of small clips all throughout my project and then maybe a tiny bit more clipping on the master bus. Obviously there is a chance that I will add an EQ somewhere here and make some adjustments. Thanks in advance for any advice!
@@musiclover-r9m Very light clipping on the order of 2-3 dB or less shouldn't cause much issue, but personally I don't push any clipper except the final stage on a 2 track master more than that. Any more reduction needed than that and I go for a multiband compressor or limiter. And just as an extra bit of info, I also always recommend never doing fadeouts pre-limiter when mastering loudly, as the signal dropping below the compression threshold can change the tonality drastically. Listen to the ending of Empire Ants by Gorillaz to see what I mean.
@@ELLIOT8209 I'm pretty sure Nick was using standard clip for ages before upgrading. He actually did a vid about it a while ago, and concluded standard clip is a perfectly capable clipping tool on it's own, but if you want even more control gold clip is a step up, but not so important as to make standard clip not a great plug in it's own right. (atleast from what I can remember anyway).
I remeber when I first found out about multi layered clipping ... as you know I make D+B sometimes and I used to struggle getting competative loudness (as you noticed in my old track I sent for that vid). When I realised people were clipping in their mixes at multiple stages it changed everything lol. Wish this kind of info was as readily avalible back then, but happy it is now for people!
Yeah; it's interesting. I aimed to break it down into pragmatic steps, because as you can see in this example it's only 2 culprits, not necessarily every single stem.
A simple low pass on the bass will hit that transient that's stacking when summed with the drum bus. High frequency is typically only in the transient of most traditional and synth basses, so this is a way to lessen the impact of the transient. Also, as it’s a high pass you’re not going to interfere with the phase rotation of the fundamental or low harmonics that might interfere with the kick. Clippers are great, but sometimes just adding a volume envelope to some stacked percussive elements is a more deterministic way to remedy excessive drum-based percussive transients stacking. For example, I often layer snares, claps, and hats to give a richer percussive sound. But if all those transients fall at the same time… and at same time as other transients of the kick or bass it becomes. Simply add an attack envelope to some elements and hey presto, solved. This is, obviously, more a production tip than a mastering tip though. edit: fixed phone typos
Possibly so! And actually, that's a whole process in itself leveraging filters or polarity flips with the same goals in mind. In mastering though using an agressive LPF will change the relative summing of the elements adjacent to the bass, and can mess with the original tone of the entire mix.
Great video once again. Two questions: A) So would you save All clipping for the last stage of your process so that you’re unlikely to be doing any additional Filtering after you’ve clipped? B) In your example of the Bass pushing the Snare into clipping, would you not be better off using a Compressor, or Multiband Comp, or Dynamic EQ on the Bass, side-chained to the snare? You could filter off the sidechain to target Only the spectrum around the Snare that is clipping AND get more clarity around each hit? Thoughts?
The plugins you suggest would cause more changes to the signal than a clipper, since a clipper only chops the top off the waveform, while a compressor will change the envelope of it possibly causing an even higher peak, and multiband compression crossovers will cause phase rotation (or with linear phase crossovers some pre-ringing), and dynamic EQ would shift the phase also potentially increasing your peak values depending on the situation.
A) Generally yes! B) Clipping is a pretty simple process (Especially in the case of hard-clipping like I'm using here), I always aim to go with the least intrusive possible, especially in stem-mastering as the way these stems sum together and the resulting harmonic structure is integral to the sound of the mix the client signed off on.
@DrBuffaloBalls Thanks for the reply! I agree that any effect could have potential side-effects. This video was essentially pointing that out. After re-reading my post it looks like I'm suggesting, but I am genuinely asking. Would a more targeted approach make more sense for the specific task, or is a clipper the only option. Given that every effect has side-effects, are we playing a game of greatest good with least damage?
I hear you on the STEMS all being interdependent. So to ask another way, is the clipper the least invasive, over some other Frequency Targeted approach? I could just move on but im genuinely curious given the Under-The-Hood nature of this and your recent videos, whether you think there may be another way to have the individual tracks/STEMS interact and achieve the goal of reducing peaks without the side-effects? Or at least different side-effects. @panorama_mastering
exactly my problem, In a trap mix I had 2 claps with a crazy sharp transient that when played on top of the 808+kick would create those peaks. I used a clipper in the 808 and the kick and also the clap and still had this problem. Then i just automated the volume to reduce the clap to -1db when the kick hits and Boom, problem solved.
how do you go about EQing the master channel if you've used clippers on individual elements/grouped elements? I usually have an EQ on my master for some final touches, often adding up to 0.5 - 1db at high frequencies and taking away something similar at around 400hz and below, if the mix sounds a bit muddy/needs to be brighter. Would i have to worry about these tweaks, or is my EQing here not aggressive enough to cause issues despite the fact its post clipping? Thanks for the info, great vid
Most conservative moves used in mastering won't shift that peak far enough; I'll tend to place; any HPF before clippers on the master channel if I need to use one; otherwise the peak shift of general 1dB bells or shelves are pretty benign.
but doesn't that mean as soon as you use a eq on the master channel you're doing the same there again, since it's after the clipped stems (introducing new peaks)?
Depends! I've seen him use two styles of mid-frequency driven compression; one as a multiband ahwere the mids get hit and the low and top are free to move; another where the mid-frequencies side-chain fulllband compression. I think both definitely have their place!
In using this approach, would you suggest having the clipper as the last plugin in the chain? Or is there some type of plugin that you would use after the clipper?
Most ideal, as the last one in the chain for the individual stems. For the stereo-bus; the second insert for reasons of stereo processing I'll delve into!
@@panorama_mastering thanks, after watching your vid about the clipper placement b4 or after the eq on the master bus...I found it works better for me after the eq, I also got the standard clip after watching ur vids, thanks for ur content...it helps me alot!
Here's a plugin idea, analysis of multiple stems and how they sum together to automatically detect and limit/clip the momentary peaks that contribute the most to peak level when summed. Would have to be an off-line process, but could be largely automated, unless you want to compare options (I.e clip drums rather than limit). I guess it could ignore peaks that last longer than a set time value? Dunno. But it'd be a massive time saver
I put info like this in the comments under a video somewhere last week, I was the only comment under that video and got attacked with 10 reactions that I absolutely cannot use clipper’s because they always add distortion and deteriorates the quality 😂 I left the purists audiophiles asap 😱
Quick tip for you. If you set your project tempo to the same as the song, when you loop a small section it won’t be so jarring because it will be looping in time. Thanks
@@panorama_mastering sorry if I came across as a bit of a dick but I watch a lot of your videos and it always jarrs my when you loop a short section of a song and its not in time.
I tend to use hard clipping for crest factor but soft clip pro for a more creative way. The Xfactor number changes the sound a lot as well I switch those a lot to compare the sound
@@lusid_music_ukit's actually the opposite. More spikes equal less loudness potential. So we clip the spikes to get more sausage with is higher crest factor.
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Hey Nicholas & audio community. I studied audio engineering and took a lot of course’s in the last 20 years. If I could turn back the time this is the Masterclass to invest in!
Thanks man! Appreciate the love/support!
Ye I agree, even the free stuff Nick puts out is top tier info! I can imagin the full course packs a huge punch! 😊
@@panorama_masteringdoes clipping make you lose low end?
@@SuperFake777 not really, it chops the peaks off of the low-end that's not necessarily even audible
Clipping is amazing this and phase coherence and wild out of the box techniques you teach really makes this a nice channel!
One of the best audio teachers on TH-cam. Needed this video!
Great video. Also just finished watching Baphometrix series on his Clip to zero method. Highly recommend that series for loud mixes!
6:58 THANK YOU! Finally someone talks about the problem with using EQ after clipping generating tilt, especially low pass and high pass filtering. In my experience, even the AC coupling filter on an interface input is enough high pass filtering to introduce it.
Thank you! You're spot on! Credit to Ian Stuart for putting me down that path.
Would this suggest that clipping on individual tracks/buses is a bad move? I usually do a cascade of small clips all throughout my project and then maybe a tiny bit more clipping on the master bus. Obviously there is a chance that I will add an EQ somewhere here and make some adjustments. Thanks in advance for any advice!
@@musiclover-r9m Very light clipping on the order of 2-3 dB or less shouldn't cause much issue, but personally I don't push any clipper except the final stage on a 2 track master more than that. Any more reduction needed than that and I go for a multiband compressor or limiter. And just as an extra bit of info, I also always recommend never doing fadeouts pre-limiter when mastering loudly, as the signal dropping below the compression threshold can change the tonality drastically. Listen to the ending of Empire Ants by Gorillaz to see what I mean.
@@ForestHillMedia wow interesting tip on the fadeouts! I have never heard this - will definitely check it out.
Great video! I have definitely put the filters and clipper in the wrong order before!
Me too! Thank you to Ian Stuart for helping point this out to me, and then I investigated further in a previous video.
woooooow that last part is crazy
Yeap!
Awesome content! Always learn something new, thank you Nicholas ❤🙏🏻
My pleasure!
@@panorama_masteringwould you bother with gold clip if you have standard Clip? Is the price worth the difference results?
@@ELLIOT8209 I'm pretty sure Nick was using standard clip for ages before upgrading. He actually did a vid about it a while ago, and concluded standard clip is a perfectly capable clipping tool on it's own, but if you want even more control gold clip is a step up, but not so important as to make standard clip not a great plug in it's own right. (atleast from what I can remember anyway).
@@DaftyBoi412thank you
For the love of god can you please loop in time!.... 😆Random looping aside, great content as always!
Maybe one day. Thanks for stopping by!
I remeber when I first found out about multi layered clipping ... as you know I make D+B sometimes and I used to struggle getting competative loudness (as you noticed in my old track I sent for that vid). When I realised people were clipping in their mixes at multiple stages it changed everything lol. Wish this kind of info was as readily avalible back then, but happy it is now for people!
Yeah; it's interesting. I aimed to break it down into pragmatic steps, because as you can see in this example it's only 2 culprits, not necessarily every single stem.
@@panorama_mastering 💯%, don't get me wrong, I still learnt a few things watching ur vid, even tho I knew of the technique already. 😉👍
Just incredible
When I use StandardClip or any clipper, compared to the x2, the x4 OS sounds smoother and a bit less impacting (Just a little off-topic realization)
Watching these videos whenever I can't sleep. Cheaper than pills
You're welcome!
@panorama_mastering no 1 tip for perceived loudness without increasing actual loudness?
A simple low pass on the bass will hit that transient that's stacking when summed with the drum bus. High frequency is typically only in the transient of most traditional and synth basses, so this is a way to lessen the impact of the transient. Also, as it’s a high pass you’re not going to interfere with the phase rotation of the fundamental or low harmonics that might interfere with the kick.
Clippers are great, but sometimes just adding a volume envelope to some stacked percussive elements is a more deterministic way to remedy excessive drum-based percussive transients stacking.
For example, I often layer snares, claps, and hats to give a richer percussive sound. But if all those transients fall at the same time… and at same time as other transients of the kick or bass it becomes. Simply add an attack envelope to some elements and hey presto, solved. This is, obviously, more a production tip than a mastering tip though.
edit: fixed phone typos
Possibly so! And actually, that's a whole process in itself leveraging filters or polarity flips with the same goals in mind.
In mastering though using an agressive LPF will change the relative summing of the elements adjacent to the bass, and can mess with the original tone of the entire mix.
That's super interesting thanks.
Glad you liked it!
Great video once again.
Two questions:
A) So would you save All clipping for the last stage of your process so that you’re unlikely to be doing any additional Filtering after you’ve clipped?
B) In your example of the Bass pushing the Snare into clipping, would you not be better off using a Compressor, or Multiband Comp, or Dynamic EQ on the Bass, side-chained to the snare? You could filter off the sidechain to target Only the spectrum around the Snare that is clipping AND get more clarity around each hit?
Thoughts?
The plugins you suggest would cause more changes to the signal than a clipper, since a clipper only chops the top off the waveform, while a compressor will change the envelope of it possibly causing an even higher peak, and multiband compression crossovers will cause phase rotation (or with linear phase crossovers some pre-ringing), and dynamic EQ would shift the phase also potentially increasing your peak values depending on the situation.
A) Generally yes!
B) Clipping is a pretty simple process (Especially in the case of hard-clipping like I'm using here), I always aim to go with the least intrusive possible, especially in stem-mastering as the way these stems sum together and the resulting harmonic structure is integral to the sound of the mix the client signed off on.
@DrBuffaloBalls Thanks for the reply!
I agree that any effect could have potential side-effects. This video was essentially pointing that out.
After re-reading my post it looks like I'm suggesting, but I am genuinely asking.
Would a more targeted approach make more sense for the specific task, or is a clipper the only option.
Given that every effect has side-effects, are we playing a game of greatest good with least damage?
I hear you on the STEMS all being interdependent.
So to ask another way, is the clipper the least invasive, over some other Frequency Targeted approach?
I could just move on but im genuinely curious given the Under-The-Hood nature of this and your recent videos, whether you think there may be another way to have the individual tracks/STEMS interact and achieve the goal of reducing peaks without the side-effects?
Or at least different side-effects.
@panorama_mastering
exactly my problem, In a trap mix I had 2 claps with a crazy sharp transient that when played on top of the 808+kick would create those peaks. I used a clipper in the 808 and the kick and also the clap and still had this problem. Then i just automated the volume to reduce the clap to -1db when the kick hits and Boom, problem solved.
🔥🔥🔥 Great content!
Thank you!
how do you go about EQing the master channel if you've used clippers on individual elements/grouped elements? I usually have an EQ on my master for some final touches, often adding up to 0.5 - 1db at high frequencies and taking away something similar at around 400hz and below, if the mix sounds a bit muddy/needs to be brighter.
Would i have to worry about these tweaks, or is my EQing here not aggressive enough to cause issues despite the fact its post clipping?
Thanks for the info, great vid
Most conservative moves used in mastering won't shift that peak far enough; I'll tend to place; any HPF before clippers on the master channel if I need to use one; otherwise the peak shift of general 1dB bells or shelves are pretty benign.
@@panorama_mastering got you, cheers for the info!
but doesn't that mean as soon as you use a eq on the master channel you're doing the same there again, since it's after the clipped stems (introducing new peaks)?
Depends on how agressive the EQ filter is.
But you’re correct there too!
@@panorama_mastering so ideally I would first clip my master, than apply locut eq and than only clip the created peaks again?
Good stuff!
Glad you enjoyed it
Hey Nicholas, thanks for your videos. Is there a reason to why you don't loop 4 or 2 bars, but "out of rhythm"? Or was the loop length just random?
0:45 “I’ll loop the loudest peak”
@@evanmartin4749 Thanks, I got that :) My question was more about the loop length, why he chose to loop "out of sync," and not just 2 or 4 bars...
what are your thoughts on compressing the mids on the master bus so they sit above everything else like Luca Polesti?
Depends! I've seen him use two styles of mid-frequency driven compression; one as a multiband ahwere the mids get hit and the low and top are free to move; another where the mid-frequencies side-chain fulllband compression.
I think both definitely have their place!
In using this approach, would you suggest having the clipper as the last plugin in the chain? Or is there some type of plugin that you would use after the clipper?
Most ideal, as the last one in the chain for the individual stems.
For the stereo-bus; the second insert for reasons of stereo processing I'll delve into!
@@panorama_mastering thanks, after watching your vid about the clipper placement b4 or after the eq on the master bus...I found it works better for me after the eq, I also got the standard clip after watching ur vids, thanks for ur content...it helps me alot!
Here's a plugin idea, analysis of multiple stems and how they sum together to automatically detect and limit/clip the momentary peaks that contribute the most to peak level when summed. Would have to be an off-line process, but could be largely automated, unless you want to compare options (I.e clip drums rather than limit). I guess it could ignore peaks that last longer than a set time value? Dunno. But it'd be a massive time saver
Great info on clipping. It's far more useful than i originally thought it would be.
Glad it was helpful! Let me know how you get on with applying it!
Ive tried using individual clippers, but sometimes it made the final peak louder. Limiters worked and didnt do this for me
I put info like this in the comments under a video somewhere last week, I was the only comment under that video and got attacked with 10 reactions that I absolutely cannot use clipper’s because they always add distortion and deteriorates the quality 😂
I left the purists audiophiles asap 😱
Quick tip for you. If you set your project tempo to the same as the song, when you loop a small section it won’t be so jarring because it will be looping in time. Thanks
I know.
@@panorama_mastering sorry if I came across as a bit of a dick but I watch a lot of your videos and it always jarrs my when you loop a short section of a song and its not in time.
It's very hard to pay attention to anything with such a short loop.
Sorry!
Why soft clip classic and not hard clipping???
I tend to use hard clipping for crest factor but soft clip pro for a more creative way. The Xfactor number changes the sound a lot as well I switch those a lot to compare the sound
Soft clip classic at 0% is hard clipping.
Dying Dying Dying Dying Dying Dying Dying Dying Dying Dying Dying Dying Dying
Spot on.
ridiculous quality of info. i should get the course. its only 100 bucks. why not.
What the hell is crest factor
It's the difference between the average signal (RMS) and the tallest peaks of the audio signal
Spikey = High crest factor
Sausage = Low crest factor
@@lusid_music_uk What this guy said
Long term integrated lufs minus peak value
@@lusid_music_ukit's actually the opposite. More spikes equal less loudness potential. So we clip the spikes to get more sausage with is higher crest factor.