Another way to think of it: Pagan faiths come from them trying to make sense of Creation, but absent the Revelation of Christ and the Old Testament. But since they were still trying to derive meaning from a world that God created, it's not unreasonable that there would still be some overlap, in the same sense of everyone being influenced by Natural Law. We all share this created reality, and thus shouldn't be surprised to be drawn to God in similar ways, even if missing some vital information.
@@jimreilly917 Also for me, the schism is like a wound on the soul. I hope that 2025 will bring a change, especially since the pope will officiate Easter together with the Patriarch of Constantinople in Turkey on the same date.
A few corrections: Christmas trees are a wholesale Christian invention of the middle ages. Germanic pagans would never have killed a tree to use it as a decoration. Eggs were a common food used to break the Lenten fast. Chickens don't observe Lent and there would have been lots of them; they keep well without refrigeration if they are cool and dry. Rabbits (actually hares) became a symbol of the Virgin Birth because they were thought to be capable of parthogenesis. Religion for Breakfast, Inspiring Philosophy and Dan McClellan all have videos on this.
To be fair, nobody claims Germanic pagans would cut down the tress, only that they would decorate and venerate them, which was factually the case as far as we can tell.
Father Casey brings up a good point. Just because two religious traditions have similar appearing practices, doesn't mean one influenced the other. Rather, these practices emerged because they share a utility or resonate with people. Its the same reason why some of the earliest architectural structures that emerged in different civilizations, in different parts of the world, separate by centuries, were pyramid like structures. It would be wrong to think that somehow the Egyptians influenced the Mayans to build pyramids, when these civilizations were separated by thousands of years and thousands of miles. The reason for this similarity in building type was that, in order to build something tall, the easiest way to do that is to provide the building with a wide base and have it gradually narrow as the building ascends. Hence, why in every society the earliest type of tall buildings had a pyramid like shape. Likewise, if you see a commonality in religions separated by vast time periods and geography, don't be so quick to assume that one merely copied the other.
In science, there's something called convergent evolution. Sometimes a certain shape or feature is right for the environment it is in so creatures in that environment might start trending towards that shape or feature. For instance both theropods and mammals adapted their front limbs for flight, giving us birds and bats. Adapting an existing limb is a lot easier than spontaneously generating a new one like insects somehow did. Yeah pagans had an image of a mom with a child, but how many non pagans today from various cultures take a picture of mom with the kid shortly after birth? It's just a natural human thing. Winter celebrations? Well throughout most of history humans were agrarian based so winter was pretty boring unless you have tangerines, citrus or other things that oddly bear fruit that time of year. You're cold, you're bored, and there's limited entertainment. You are going to want something to do.
I am a pagan and a classicist (study ancient Rome). Pretty much every attempt to link Catholicism or really most anything in Christianity to any historic paganism is superficial at best
@@carolynkimberly4021 The thing is 'pagan' basically just meant 'non-christian' for a long time, but today when people say they're pagan they usually mean 'neopagan'. Neo-paganism kind of evolved in the 19th and 20th century and a lot of the ideas were fabricated around what ancient people's 'might' have believed as we didn't/don't have the records from those peoples. In fact a lot of it is probably qutie different to what they believed. It's quite romanticised for a 'modern' audience. Its connection to historic paganism is really non-existent. It's also very broad and very non-committal, you can believe in just about anything and call yourself a neo-pagan. There are no core beliefs, you can believe anything or nothing. Wicca, Druids, Hecate, very much a choose your own adventure... Some pagans even basically don't believe in anything supernatural but enjoy habits and a kind of empowerment of it. There are other religions of the past you could follow we do know about, but they don't today fall under the 'pagan' label today for some reason...
I'm pagan but thinking about converting to Christianity. I agree with you completely. I haven't found any links that are actually based in true research, just needless claims
@@thomaspickin9376that's because you do not label them as such, they have a strong hold of what they wanna be called as What? You think some 16th century Christian cared if a Hindu call himself Shaivite? No, it's all Pagan
I’ll point out that the earliest historical sources we have for Christmas trees and the Easter bunny are from the late middle ages and early modern period, well after Christianity was established. As for Easter eggs, they’re probably associated with Easter due to having to use up eggs before and directly after the Lenten fast.
Ironically, I’ve seen other videos debunking the myth that the Christmas tree has Pagan origins. I think it was Religion for Breakfast. Christmas trees are entirely Christian in origin (I think it was in Germany in the Middle Ages).
I read that it started with Alsatians hanging small fir trees from the ceiling of the cathedral to decorate for Christmas, since they didn't have any flowers in the winter.
There’s a great book of essays on this and several related topics, “Tree of Salvation; Yggdrasil and the Cross in the North” by Fr. G. Ronald Murphy, S.J.
"Rather than chopping down the tree that represented their god, making enemies..." Um, St. Boniface would like a word. He chopped down a sacred Sacon tree, the Donar oak. When the pagan gods didn't strike him fown, observers embraced the Church.
When people mention that Christmas is a pagan holiday i remind them that they should return any gifts and not take part in any of the celebrations. That tends to make them mad.
Oh yeah. So many specious arguments and baseless slanders are thrown at us Christians, which by the way, Jesus reminded us would happen. And yet we persist through His care and eternal love. The chief problem, it seems to me is that Christians belief this world is transitory, a kind of workshop for the soul. and this belief makes non-Christians very, very angry. My formula is that we aren't humans having spiritual experiences, but spirits having human experiences. Similar to Jesus the Christ, Who came in solidarity with us. Viva Christe!
Father Casey second time commenting on your channel now have to be honest my daughter found your channel and just wanted to say great content Father and lots of love from Ireland 🇮🇪
When I saw how bland Protestant churches (I mean the buildings/rooms where they worship) look like, I kind of understood why they would say Catholicism is pagan, because if you come from basically what can be described as an auditorium with a cross on the stage, to statues, vestments, incense and bells, you'd definitely think Catholics are pagans.
I'm glad you told the truth about Halloween, the Catholic podcaster Michael Knowles last year denied that Halloween had anything to do with Christianity, in fact Michael Knowles said Halloween, which was called , All Hallows's eve , said the original Irish Celtic name for it Samhain , all came after Christianity , which is false. So again thank you for speaking the truth. 👍
@carlose4314 I'm sorry but you're 100% wrong . Samhain was and is a festival for the end of year harvest , where winter takes over , the ancient Irish celts believed that this time of year is when the pathway between the world of the Dead and the world of the Living was at its narrowest , they believed the spirts could pass over into the world of the living , so the ancient Irish cut out turnips with faces to scare of the evil spirits , also the ancient Irish lit bonfires to ward off evil spirits as well . Don't know where you got your information from , but you're completely wrong.
@@michaelfoley9904 Thank you, Mike Foley, for your trenchant remarks. I imagine you carry your logical and historical clarity through many a weedy intellectual field. Guys like you are so sorely needed in this confused and confusing era.
I think that people forget how Multicultural the Catholic community is, and its been the case for Centuries. Being the Largest single religious group in the world, it blending with the cultures of local communities should be obviose. Also, though arguable, Catholisism and Christianiy for the most part is a religious movement that does require someone to sever their relations with their culture in the same way you see in Islam, or other faiths.
It can be very annoying, but hopefully videos like these and word-of-mouth helps people know better and reduce the amount of tired and idiotic repeated claims. Thank you Father!
With "broad" regard to this matter, I can not too highly recommend Marilynne Robinson's brilliant new "Reading Genesis" (Farrar, Straus, and Giroux, 2024). Just to take the story of "The Flood" as one brief example: There is no scholarly doubt, at all, that the writers of the Hebrew Bible were well aware of the Babylonian flood story (in The Epic of Gilgamesh), as they were aware of ancient Greek "flood stories", and there is no doubt that they "took" parts of that story to write our Noah flood story.. That's all well and good, and as a literary device almost no writer doesn't "take" something from other writers. But Robinson is very careful to point out that this is quite beside the point. Not one single pagan tradition has ONE God, who is compassionate, loves "His" People, does not sleep, has no "physical" home, and so on. All of this, and so much more which we would recognize when we talk about our God, is undeniably unique to Judaism and the Old Testament. And it is our Faith - thoroughly rooted in Judaism and born again in Christ - in that ONE creative and compassionate God who loves His People, which puts paid to the nonsensical suggestions that Catholicism is a pagan religion. Nicely done, Father Casey!
Thank you for the nuanced take on the issue. Discussions of these topics usually veer towards extreme interpretations (Catholics accused of being pagans or Catholics refusing to acknowledge Non Christian influence).
Try explaining to Protestants that Christmas trees were an independent invention of early modern German Protestants and have no relation to anything in Christianity or paganism. They are just a recent folk tradition. As if decorating a tree determines ones religion anyway
The Christmas tree was not pagan. It began on the feast day of Adam and Eve, which was celebrated on Christmas Eve. They used trees as a symbol for life, and they would hang apples on the tree to represent the tree of life from Genesis. Those apples eventually became ornaments. They were called paradise tree. This is dated to around 723 in Germany after St. Boniface used an evergreen tree to explain the story of Genesis to the Germans. Not pagan. The IHS with the sun being of pagan origins has no credible evidence. People claim it's from isis and osirus of ancient Egypt, but not a scholar worth his salt agrees with this claim. As for Halloween, the so-called pagan harvest festival was not a religious festival. People connect it with an Irish harvest festival called Samhain. Samhain means November in Gaelic as it happened at night on October 31st into November. It was not religious, and there was no mention of celebrating the dead. If anything, the Catholic church chose that date to celebrate because there was already a celebration. In reality, neo-pagans use christain holidays to discredit christainity. Don't fall for it.
The IHS one is some mentally ill nonsense invented by Alexander Hislop, a habitual liar from Scotland who deluded himself into thinking he was a minister. He decided to compile his fanciful inventions into The Two Babylons, which somehow wasn’t immediately identified as a work of fiction.
They tend to ignore the fact that 1: Constantine didn’t convert to Christianity until he was on his deathbed and 2: He was finally baptized by an Arian priest-Arianism being the heresy that the First Nicene Council sought to correct.
We definitely have some Pagan influences in our church. No big deal, we also have Jewish and Greek influences. It’s just a testament of the time periods in which our faith evolved.
The obelisk at the Vatican was a pagan symbol at the Coliseum where many Christians were martyred but is now a victory symbol of the Church converting pagans who persecute us and bringing them among us. It would seem natural to just condemn what is wrong but that's not what Christ wants his Church to do: "for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world." [Jn 12:47]
Friar Casey, Why are we hearing so much hatred towards Catholics? How do we tell a True Catholic podcaster or channel? It hurt me today to see people posting nonsense about our Faith. It wasn’t like being offended, more a feeling of why? I will pray for them, but it is hard to understand. Please let Friar Tito, Friar Patrick and your brothers - know it has been a joy watching! Keep on teaching, we are learning. May God Bless all of you,
Reminds me of St Paul appealing to the cult of the unknown god for the Greeks to represent Jesus. Was Paul endorsing the religious practice of worshipping an unknown god? Of course not! He was appealing to a universal seeking after the transcendent to point to Christ.
Literally was thinking the same thing as well. Evangelizing others means using groups of people's terminology, understanding their culture, and meeting others where they are.
Father Casey, I'd like to respectfully point out that Easter eggs, the Easter bunny and the Christmas tree are not pagan at all. Historians say that Easter eggs came about during the medieval period. Eggs were prohibited by the Church during the Lenten fast and so when Easter comes around, there was often a surplus of eggs from chickens who of course continued to lay eggs during Lent. The earliest known reference to a Christmas tree is from a sculpture of a home in France in 1576. It most likely originated from the "tree of Paradise" used in medieval mystery plays. Also, there is no evidence that the Easter bunny is pagan. It originated among Lutherans in the 17th century. Bunny rabbits often come out in spring around the same time of the year as Easter so the bunny was adopted as part of the Easter celebration.
As a Presbyterian who has a lot of issues with Rome, Catholics definitely aren’t pagan, at least in their official teachings. I do think there are serious issues with syncretism in places like Mexico, but that’s a separate concern.
Do you mean syncreticism? or, do you mean the folk catholicism that doesn't conradict the faith? because that last one is simply how culture works. The "set-dressing" if you will.
@@myguitardidyermom212 I do mean syncretism, how embarrassing lol. But I’m referring to the ongoing practice of a pagan magic. Obviously when a people are christianized they are going to keep some of their cultural eccentricities, which is perfectly fine.
As one of my liturgy profs said, "People think that we all believe the same thing but practice it differently. We don't. We believe different things and practice them the same." Or to put it another way, humans use similar symbols and ritual practices because we are human.
Thank you for these informative videos, Fr. Casey. I live in a very anti-Catholic context and find it challenging to respond to accusations of this nature as I have not studied these issues in sufficient depth to be able to give an informed response.. Having a video like this that I can share with people who have questions along these lines will be very helpful. Your video on religion and war has been very useful in this way already. They are much appreciated!
Look at the work of Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell who wrote extensively of images, themes, and symbols in civilizations that never came in any contact with each other.
the term "Easter" only exists in German and English. New linguistic research confirms that the terms used in each case come from the Old High German or Old English words for "facing east". "Easter egg": Interest eggs (also called Hubeier) are those eggs that farmers used to have to give to the landlord as ground rent or rent at the end of the interest year, which ended before Easter in the Middle Ages. The date of Easter arose because in the Middle Ages Christians were forbidden to eat eggs during Lent because chicken eggs were considered a meat dish. The resulting surplus of eggs was used to pay the rent. What was left over was eaten by the family at Easter. The problem of shelf life was solved by boiling the eggs and coloring them - usually with beetroot - to distinguish them from unboiled eggs. However, especially in the church, the interest egg soon became the gift egg, which was given back to staff, beneficiaries, poor people and, only later, but increasingly, to children during the Easter period. With the abolition of feudalism and the replacement of natural products with money, the gift egg soon developed into the Easter egg in the modern sense. "Easter bunny": Since Ambrose, there has also been an older interpretation of the bunny as a symbol of resurrection. The diverse Christian symbolism of the bunny found expression in many works of art in the Middle Ages, see bunny in art. The connection between the bunny and the Easter egg custom is still unclear, even if the fertility of bunny itself has a close connection to spring. The following hypotheses are often put forward: Some early painted Easter eggs show the three-bunny image - a depiction of three bunny rabbits with only three ears in total, in which each bunny has two ears due to the "double use" of ears; this is now a well-known symbol for the Trinity (the original meaning is unclear). It is possible that this depiction led to the idea of the rabbit as a supplier of eggs. In one passage in the Bible, Psalm 104:18, older translations speak of "rabbits". The reason for this was the Latin translation of Proverbs 30:26, in which Jerome translated the Hebrew "schafan" (rock hyrax) as "lepusculus" (little rabbit). Since late antiquity, this passage has been interpreted as a symbol for the weak human (rabbit) who seeks refuge in the rock (Christ). This interpretation established the symbolism of the rabbit in Christian iconography. In the 17th century, the chocolate rabbit was often given as a gift at Easter.
As for the pagan deity "Ostara", she is an invention of the 19th century, as the name has been deduced as possible root for the word Ostern (German for Easter) by Jacob Grimm (yes, the one with the fairytales). Grimm knew as source the monk Beda Venerabilis (7th-8th century) who explained the word Easter with a spring goddess "Eostrae". Only there is no other source than Beda for the name Eostrae and no other source than Grimm for the name Ostara, which makes the existence of an original cult with Eostrae/ Ostara highly improbable.
I'm a Seventh Day Adventist and some people believe my Church is a cult all because of misunderstandings of what a cult is and that not all cults are the same. It's probably the same reason some believe Catholics are Pagans because they don't understand what Pagan means and not all Pagans are the same.
I learned from a Yale lecture series on the Old Testament that much of the creation story present in Genesis (and later chapters) shared many similarities with ones told in ancient Mesopotamia. However, using a pagan/polytheistic creation story for source material was likely no accident or form of plagiarism. The author was likely aware of these other stories and put its monotheistic twist on it in order to have the book serve as a polemic against belief in the pantheons of the time in favor of an all-good, all-powerful, all-knowing God who created humans in his image and to serve as stewards over all creation. So it appears that co-opting pagan stories and symbols is a long-standing Judeo-Christian tradition.
Mary = Artemis. Suggesting declaration of Theotokos in Ephesus in the shadow of Artemis’s enormous temple wasn’t, at least in part, in response to demand in Asia Minor for a female deity requires one to shut one’s brain off. While not rising to the level of proof, the history of political events that preceded Mary becoming Queen of Heaven is quite compelling, making it the most likely explanation for her ascendance.
Very interesting topic, Father. Thanks for taking it on. One minor point, though: many of the viewers seem to buy into the common myth that Judaism, and thus, Christianity, had a monopoly on the notion of monotheism. In fact, Zorastorism believed in one Supreme God well before Judaism. And what about the belief in a solitary Creator by indigenous peoples of North America ? The Sikhs believe in one God as well , though i dont know their history. The point is although these other monotheistic religions may differ in several key ways from the Judaic-Christian tradition we Christians are, and were, not the only ones to embrace the concept of one supreme God. We werent even the first likely.
Do you know why bats are a thing for Halloween? The druids used to burn a bond fire which attracted moths that the bats came out to feast on and the jackolantern was a druid thing as well. They would put out their hearth and the druid priest would give everyone a new piece of bless fire to bring home. Its hard to carry fire in your hands so they would hollow out a vegetable and carry it home in it then they got whimsical and carved faces into the vegetable giving us the pumpkin with a candle in it.
Even in ancient times, people didn't live in a bubble. Despite history books showing all the cruelty of the times, these different groups of people actually got along for the most part, at least on the personal level. So they would be exposed to different rituals and traditions. So it is quite possible to find a tradition that you like, but apply your belief structure in it, especially if there is no conflict between the different faiths. A lot of the music in the American Catholic Hymnal come from Prodastant sources, with sometimes the words altered to avoid herisies.
If people do not explain exactly what they mean when calling Catholic things "pagan", it is impossible to have an illuminating & helpful discussion. One would have thought that this was obvious.
Actually, Christmas trees likely don’t have a pagan origin. They were first used in Alsace France in the Middle Ages, for Adam and Eve plays on Christmas Eve.
"He says without a doubt these things are pagan in origin" I dont think that the xmas tree, the easter bunny, eggs etc are pagan at all, and i dont think there is Ny real evidence to say that they are.
Thank you for your great video's. 👍 I don't know if you should see putting up a Christmas tree as a Catholic custom, my grandparents never put up a Christmas tree, that was pagan, a nativity scene on the other hand, a very beautiful one, in the best room under the Sacred Heart statue. Christmas trees are also put up by Protestants and Muslims, at least here in the Netherlands.
St. Boniface made the first Christmas tree by chopping down a pagan worship tree, and there is actually 0 connection between the Easter bunny and eggs (which have separate origins) and anything actually pagan. It is not "without a doubt" that these are pagan symbols that we adopted, but either symbols of victory over paganism or (as you already pointed out) two unrelated ideas sharing symbolisms
I recently found out that the Christmas tree might actually come from Adam and eve plays that occurred on December 24th though no one is actually sure were the practice actually comes from this seams like a likely case.
When i was younger i learned that the Dark Ages were caused by 2 factors: the loss of knowledge due to events like the lost library of Alexandria and religion holding back technological advancement. I used to be under the impression most ppl thought that way. How do Catholics believe the Dark Ages occurred? Considering Catholicism was the primary religion of that time period
I feel like the middle ages were done dirty in school. Even the moniker "dark ages" is a misnomer coined by people during the renaissance era to disparage the times before compared to their own time. The medieval period certainly saw a lot of flux after the fall of rome, but knowledge wasn't really "lost", and a lot of that is thanks to the scholarship of the church and its monasteries and universities that copied and preserved texts and manuscripts. Lots of technological advancement happened in the medieval era, just look at the developments in armor, weapons, and fortifications for one. Others include developing the pointed arch which was much more efficient than the roman arch in architecture, developing rotational farming for crops and grazing on manors and freeholds to better care for the soil, looms, windmills, the list goes on. As the only surviving unifying entity the church did find itself more involved in politics and ruling than in the past, but that cut both ways, the church acted as mediator and agent of unity between rulers even as those rulers sought to subsume the church under their power with things like kings appointing bishops rather than the church. But the church was an agent of progress, the roots of science go back to the monasteries and universities and their work in philosophy and reasoning. The mechanical clock was first invented to help track times for work and prayer during the day. Things weren't perfect, but the middle ages are a vast period of time and the idea that nothing happened or things went backwards for a thousand+ years is just kind of silly when you really sit down and think about it, the end of the middle ages was the year 1500, by which time we had mastered ocean sailing and Europe made permanent contact with the Americas
Regarding the date of christmas, as far as I know the earliest mention of the birth of Jesus being on the 25th of december by hyppolitus of Rome on 204 which would be 70 years before the first mention of this day corresponding to sol invictus as well. If there is an even earlier mention I'm unaware of please let me know. Additionally, Clement of Alexandria, a contemporaneous source mentions that different groups of christians belived Jesus to be born around April and May but not December. It seems there is not enough data to determine if either where the real date of birth. I believe for some reason december came to be the most popular one at some point, many factors could have influenced which date it was and the significance of the solstice in both daily and religious life could be one of them. This could also be the reason Sol Invictus is celebrated this day, picking the date where the days start to grow longer seem a perfect fit for the Unconquered Sun and likely more influencia in this aspect than Christianity. Note that regardless any possible influence one way or the other, I don't think this has any theological significance.
@@carolynkimberly4021Yeah that’s a practice that goes all the way back to the Essene school of the Israelite religion, who would begin each day with prayers while facing the rising sun.
Actually here is how it actually happened (from a not a historian: me) Church: Brother how is the work with the Northern tribes going Friar: It's... Interesting C: maybe a feast day could help F: they want the resurrection C: when? What do they do for fun F: solstice party C: what does that entail F: lots of alcohol and some weird s with trees C: won't work anyway, see it has to be forty days after the French thing F: when the French thing? C: February F: Who the h parties in February? C: it's a fertility party F: before lent? C: oh it's this really good idea they have so you know how lent is like penance and abstainance? Well on the day before lent they want... F: you've got to be kidding me.... C: they are French F: one more for the road? C: basically.... Maybe we can do a saint day or something F: can we just have, you know all the saints? C: oh.... We literally JUST gave that to the French also F: when? C: October F: harvest festival? C: um yeah, with some really macrabe stuff you don't want to hear about. It's... Weird. F: oh yeah.... Probably best to get that one cross branded asap C: indeed. F: are you going to let them keep that one? C: they might have to share it with Mexico. F: what's that? C: you'll see. So what do you want then? F: nativity. Final offer. C: that's a big ask. F: these guys saced Rome and they will do it again C: aha Jesus was a December baby then? F: he is now.
Like i was told once that the pentagram was originally a Christian symbol. The 5 spikes as the 5 wounds of Christ, and the circle symbolises the alpha and omega. Still not keen on wearing or carrying that symbol anywhere for.. some..odd reason:)
All religions and branches there of, have been impacted by other religions and customs, that's just a basic fact... One just needs to take the imagery of Jesus which is directly influenced by Greco-Roman culture. That doesn't make it "bad" its simply a product of a developing understanding of the world.
@@carolynkimberly4021 Simply a religion is at least in part a product of what impacts the people and customs that follow it... Something very simple, the cross only has a significance because it was used as a form of capital punishment, if the Romans had tied people to a wheel, the prevailing Christian symbol might well have ended up something like the Amish Hex sign. Those that want to point at Catholics (or anyone else) for having "impure" beliefs are missing that fact, society is a product of its past.
Not really. Charlemagne claimed such with his creation of the Holy Roman Empire but even that was a tenuous claim only accepted as the most powerful temporal ruler to come after the fall of Rome, and his being crowned emperor by the church would imply that the church did not view itself as an empire or a continuation of one. The church was mostly not involved or interested in temporal ruling powers outside of cases like the city of rome and surrounding territory
1800's atheist "scholars" and their consequences have been a disaster for the human race. Good video, small criticism - the Christmas Tree originally appeared in history (and only potentially) in the late 1300's in the central Holy Roman Empire. It was never a pagan symbol. The same thing applies to eggs (Saint Beade never mentioned what Eostre's symbols were IIRC).
For arguments sake ... is there truly anything, especially symbols or ritual that can be considered 100% original without finding roots in something else ? All reasoning apart, everything comes from somewhere , especially religion and its symbols.
Nothing wrong with Traditional religious practices - sadly paganism is evolved to have negative connotations. In my wedding I included traditional hand binding and an Aboriginal smoking ceremony. Embrace your inner pagan and be cool
Kinda like the upside down cross being used in horror films. I’d just be like oh so you are a follower of St Peter.
That's all I think of now
no, the cross is idol worship
@@tonypringles2285 I present, the logical conclusion of the iconoclast.
Pentagram being a commonly understood symbol for the Five Holy Wounds, recorded as being used on the banners of the Pilgrimage of Grace
@@tonypringles2285 nobody I know of worships the cross we worship Jesus who was put upon the cross.
I"m really glad you don't shy away from issues like this.
Another way to think of it: Pagan faiths come from them trying to make sense of Creation, but absent the Revelation of Christ and the Old Testament. But since they were still trying to derive meaning from a world that God created, it's not unreasonable that there would still be some overlap, in the same sense of everyone being influenced by Natural Law. We all share this created reality, and thus shouldn't be surprised to be drawn to God in similar ways, even if missing some vital information.
This is a beautiful and succinct way to think about it.
Screenshot for future reference.
I'm an Orthodox from Romania, but I love and I respect the catholicism, especially the monastic life.
I am Roman Catholic from Ireland, and I love our Orthodox brothers and sisters!!!
God be with you for all your days!!
We are brothers in faith. The schism was and is sad. Catholic in the USA.
@@mryea6954 Thank you! Ireland is in my heart. God bless you with His Grace!
@@jimreilly917 Also for me, the schism is like a wound on the soul. I hope that 2025 will bring a change, especially since the pope will officiate Easter together with the Patriarch of Constantinople in Turkey on the same date.
@@emanueltodor4355 Amen.
A few corrections:
Christmas trees are a wholesale Christian invention of the middle ages. Germanic pagans would never have killed a tree to use it as a decoration.
Eggs were a common food used to break the Lenten fast. Chickens don't observe Lent and there would have been lots of them; they keep well without refrigeration if they are cool and dry.
Rabbits (actually hares) became a symbol of the Virgin Birth because they were thought to be capable of parthogenesis.
Religion for Breakfast, Inspiring Philosophy and Dan McClellan all have videos on this.
The Germanic pagans not cutting down a tree reminds me of that one incident.
St. Boniface, pray for us!
Let’s go! Inspiring philosophy getting credit for debunking these lies!
To be fair, nobody claims Germanic pagans would cut down the tress, only that they would decorate and venerate them, which was factually the case as far as we can tell.
Father Casey brings up a good point. Just because two religious traditions have similar appearing practices, doesn't mean one influenced the other. Rather, these practices emerged because they share a utility or resonate with people. Its the same reason why some of the earliest architectural structures that emerged in different civilizations, in different parts of the world, separate by centuries, were pyramid like structures.
It would be wrong to think that somehow the Egyptians influenced the Mayans to build pyramids, when these civilizations were separated by thousands of years and thousands of miles. The reason for this similarity in building type was that, in order to build something tall, the easiest way to do that is to provide the building with a wide base and have it gradually narrow as the building ascends. Hence, why in every society the earliest type of tall buildings had a pyramid like shape.
Likewise, if you see a commonality in religions separated by vast time periods and geography, don't be so quick to assume that one merely copied the other.
In science, there's something called convergent evolution. Sometimes a certain shape or feature is right for the environment it is in so creatures in that environment might start trending towards that shape or feature. For instance both theropods and mammals adapted their front limbs for flight, giving us birds and bats. Adapting an existing limb is a lot easier than spontaneously generating a new one like insects somehow did.
Yeah pagans had an image of a mom with a child, but how many non pagans today from various cultures take a picture of mom with the kid shortly after birth? It's just a natural human thing.
Winter celebrations? Well throughout most of history humans were agrarian based so winter was pretty boring unless you have tangerines, citrus or other things that oddly bear fruit that time of year. You're cold, you're bored, and there's limited entertainment. You are going to want something to do.
Very well said!
I am a pagan and a classicist (study ancient Rome). Pretty much every attempt to link Catholicism or really most anything in Christianity to any historic paganism is superficial at best
What do you worship as a "pagan"?
@@carolynkimberly4021 The thing is 'pagan' basically just meant 'non-christian' for a long time, but today when people say they're pagan they usually mean 'neopagan'.
Neo-paganism kind of evolved in the 19th and 20th century and a lot of the ideas were fabricated around what ancient people's 'might' have believed as we didn't/don't have the records from those peoples. In fact a lot of it is probably qutie different to what they believed. It's quite romanticised for a 'modern' audience. Its connection to historic paganism is really non-existent.
It's also very broad and very non-committal, you can believe in just about anything and call yourself a neo-pagan. There are no core beliefs, you can believe anything or nothing. Wicca, Druids, Hecate, very much a choose your own adventure... Some pagans even basically don't believe in anything supernatural but enjoy habits and a kind of empowerment of it.
There are other religions of the past you could follow we do know about, but they don't today fall under the 'pagan' label today for some reason...
I'm pagan but thinking about converting to Christianity. I agree with you completely. I haven't found any links that are actually based in true research, just needless claims
@@thomaspickin9376that's because you do not label them as such, they have a strong hold of what they wanna be called as
What? You think some 16th century Christian cared if a Hindu call himself Shaivite? No, it's all Pagan
You should dress up as a Friar this Halloween! I think you’d nail the look
Thanks for covering this! Im getting so tired of hearing this debate over and over every year.
I’ll point out that the earliest historical sources we have for Christmas trees and the Easter bunny are from the late middle ages and early modern period, well after Christianity was established.
As for Easter eggs, they’re probably associated with Easter due to having to use up eggs before and directly after the Lenten fast.
Ironically, I’ve seen other videos debunking the myth that the Christmas tree has Pagan origins. I think it was Religion for Breakfast. Christmas trees are entirely Christian in origin (I think it was in Germany in the Middle Ages).
The Christmas Tree is based on Paradise Tree used in churches that put on plays about Genesis.
@@m_d1905And the pine tree was the only tree available during winter when the plays were held.
I read that it started with Alsatians hanging small fir trees from the ceiling of the cathedral to decorate for Christmas, since they didn't have any flowers in the winter.
There’s a great book of essays on this and several related topics, “Tree of Salvation; Yggdrasil and the Cross in the North” by Fr. G. Ronald Murphy, S.J.
"Rather than chopping down the tree that represented their god, making enemies..."
Um, St. Boniface would like a word. He chopped down a sacred Sacon tree, the Donar oak. When the pagan gods didn't strike him fown, observers embraced the Church.
Yeah, but when he repeated this at his last travel to the Frisians they killed him as retribution for the holy trees and sanctuaries he had destroyed.
When people mention that Christmas is a pagan holiday i remind them that they should return any gifts and not take part in any of the celebrations. That tends to make them mad.
Oh yeah. So many specious arguments and baseless slanders are thrown at us Christians, which by the way, Jesus reminded us would happen. And yet we persist through His care and eternal love. The chief problem, it seems to me is that Christians belief this world is transitory, a kind of workshop for the soul. and this belief makes non-Christians very, very angry.
My formula is that we aren't humans having spiritual experiences, but spirits having human experiences. Similar to Jesus the Christ, Who came in solidarity with us. Viva Christe!
Thank you, Father Casey. I'm glad you put this information out on platform. I, too, am tired of hearing the lies from non Christians.
Father Casey second time commenting on your channel now have to be honest my daughter found your channel and just wanted to say great content Father and lots of love from Ireland 🇮🇪
When I saw how bland Protestant churches (I mean the buildings/rooms where they worship) look like, I kind of understood why they would say Catholicism is pagan, because if you come from basically what can be described as an auditorium with a cross on the stage, to statues, vestments, incense and bells, you'd definitely think Catholics are pagans.
I'm glad you told the truth about Halloween, the Catholic podcaster Michael Knowles last year denied that Halloween had anything to do with Christianity, in fact Michael Knowles said Halloween, which was called , All Hallows's eve , said the original Irish Celtic name for it Samhain , all came after Christianity , which is false. So again thank you for speaking the truth. 👍
Oh wow is there a reference I can read to this? I never knew that and I'm interested in learning more
Michael Knowles is a looney tune. If he said the sky was blue, I'd have to go outside and double check😄
Samhain was a local harvest festival in Ireland with no relation to the dead or the Celtic new year.
@carlose4314 I'm sorry but you're 100% wrong . Samhain was and is a festival for the end of year harvest , where winter takes over , the ancient Irish celts believed that this time of year is when the pathway between the world of the Dead and the world of the Living was at its narrowest , they believed the spirts could pass over into the world of the living , so the ancient Irish cut out turnips with faces to scare of the evil spirits , also the ancient Irish lit bonfires to ward off evil spirits as well . Don't know where you got your information from , but you're completely wrong.
@@michaelfoley9904 Thank you, Mike Foley, for your trenchant remarks. I imagine you carry your logical and historical clarity through many a weedy intellectual field. Guys like you are so sorely needed in this confused and confusing era.
I think that people forget how Multicultural the Catholic community is, and its been the case for Centuries. Being the Largest single religious group in the world, it blending with the cultures of local communities should be obviose. Also, though arguable, Catholisism and Christianiy for the most part is a religious movement that does require someone to sever their relations with their culture in the same way you see in Islam, or other faiths.
It can be very annoying, but hopefully videos like these and word-of-mouth helps people know better and reduce the amount of tired and idiotic repeated claims. Thank you Father!
With "broad" regard to this matter, I can not too highly recommend Marilynne Robinson's brilliant new "Reading Genesis" (Farrar, Straus, and Giroux, 2024). Just to take the story of "The Flood" as one brief example: There is no scholarly doubt, at all, that the writers of the Hebrew Bible were well aware of the Babylonian flood story (in The Epic of Gilgamesh), as they were aware of ancient Greek "flood stories", and there is no doubt that they "took" parts of that story to write our Noah flood story.. That's all well and good, and as a literary device almost no writer doesn't "take" something from other writers.
But Robinson is very careful to point out that this is quite beside the point. Not one single pagan tradition has ONE God, who is compassionate, loves "His" People, does not sleep, has no "physical" home, and so on. All of this, and so much more which we would recognize when we talk about our God, is undeniably unique to Judaism and the Old Testament. And it is our Faith - thoroughly rooted in Judaism and born again in Christ - in that ONE creative and compassionate God who loves His People, which puts paid to the nonsensical suggestions that Catholicism is a pagan religion.
Nicely done, Father Casey!
1. Convergent evolution.
2. The great new emperor does not obsessively cling to erasing the traces of the exiled king.
Thank you for the nuanced take on the issue. Discussions of these topics usually veer towards extreme interpretations (Catholics accused of being pagans or Catholics refusing to acknowledge Non Christian influence).
Try explaining to Protestants that Christmas trees were an independent invention of early modern German Protestants and have no relation to anything in Christianity or paganism. They are just a recent folk tradition. As if decorating a tree determines ones religion anyway
I think a video on syncretism could be helpful.
Back in my atheist days I remember watching TH-camrs mock the comics of Jack Chick known as “Chick Tracks” and he loves calling Catholicism idolatry.
The Christmas tree was not pagan. It began on the feast day of Adam and Eve, which was celebrated on Christmas Eve. They used trees as a symbol for life, and they would hang apples on the tree to represent the tree of life from Genesis. Those apples eventually became ornaments. They were called paradise tree. This is dated to around 723 in Germany after St. Boniface used an evergreen tree to explain the story of Genesis to the Germans. Not pagan.
The IHS with the sun being of pagan origins has no credible evidence. People claim it's from isis and osirus of ancient Egypt, but not a scholar worth his salt agrees with this claim.
As for Halloween, the so-called pagan harvest festival was not a religious festival. People connect it with an Irish harvest festival called Samhain. Samhain means November in Gaelic as it happened at night on October 31st into November. It was not religious, and there was no mention of celebrating the dead. If anything, the Catholic church chose that date to celebrate because there was already a celebration.
In reality, neo-pagans use christain holidays to discredit christainity. Don't fall for it.
Fascinating
Once you start looking at the evidence, the argument that "this Christian practice is pagan" immediately falls apart.
The IHS one is some mentally ill nonsense invented by Alexander Hislop, a habitual liar from Scotland who deluded himself into thinking he was a minister. He decided to compile his fanciful inventions into The Two Babylons, which somehow wasn’t immediately identified as a work of fiction.
And the overblown assertions that Constantine ran the Nicean council. 😂
They tend to ignore the fact that 1: Constantine didn’t convert to Christianity until he was on his deathbed and 2: He was finally baptized by an Arian priest-Arianism being the heresy that the First Nicene Council sought to correct.
We definitely have some Pagan influences in our church. No big deal, we also have Jewish and Greek influences. It’s just a testament of the time periods in which our faith evolved.
The obelisk at the Vatican was a pagan symbol at the Coliseum where many Christians were martyred but is now a victory symbol of the Church converting pagans who persecute us and bringing them among us. It would seem natural to just condemn what is wrong but that's not what Christ wants his Church to do: "for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world." [Jn 12:47]
Friar Casey,
Why are we hearing so much hatred towards Catholics? How do we tell a True Catholic podcaster or channel? It hurt me today to see people posting nonsense about our Faith. It wasn’t like being offended, more a feeling of why? I will pray for them, but it is hard to understand.
Please let Friar Tito, Friar Patrick and your brothers - know it has been a joy watching! Keep on teaching, we are learning.
May God Bless all of you,
Reminds me of St Paul appealing to the cult of the unknown god for the Greeks to represent Jesus. Was Paul endorsing the religious practice of worshipping an unknown god? Of course not! He was appealing to a universal seeking after the transcendent to point to Christ.
Literally was thinking the same thing as well. Evangelizing others means using groups of people's terminology, understanding their culture, and meeting others where they are.
Happy Halloween, Fr. Casey!
Father Casey, I'd like to respectfully point out that Easter eggs, the Easter bunny and the Christmas tree are not pagan at all. Historians say that Easter eggs came about during the medieval period. Eggs were prohibited by the Church during the Lenten fast and so when Easter comes around, there was often a surplus of eggs from chickens who of course continued to lay eggs during Lent. The earliest known reference to a Christmas tree is from a sculpture of a home in France in 1576. It most likely originated from the "tree of Paradise" used in medieval mystery plays. Also, there is no evidence that the Easter bunny is pagan. It originated among Lutherans in the 17th century. Bunny rabbits often come out in spring around the same time of the year as Easter so the bunny was adopted as part of the Easter celebration.
good jo my friend! as usual.
As a Presbyterian who has a lot of issues with Rome, Catholics definitely aren’t pagan, at least in their official teachings. I do think there are serious issues with syncretism in places like Mexico, but that’s a separate concern.
Do you mean syncreticism? or, do you mean the folk catholicism that doesn't conradict the faith? because that last one is simply how culture works. The "set-dressing" if you will.
@@myguitardidyermom212 I do mean syncretism, how embarrassing lol. But I’m referring to the ongoing practice of a pagan magic. Obviously when a people are christianized they are going to keep some of their cultural eccentricities, which is perfectly fine.
The syncretism in Mexico was sponsored by the atheist Mexican government and KKK after the Mexican Revolution.
Really nice video
Excellent video Brilliant discussion on it🙏
As one of my liturgy profs said, "People think that we all believe the same thing but practice it differently. We don't. We believe different things and practice them the same." Or to put it another way, humans use similar symbols and ritual practices because we are human.
Thank you for these informative videos, Fr. Casey. I live in a very anti-Catholic context and find it challenging to respond to accusations of this nature as I have not studied these issues in sufficient depth to be able to give an informed response.. Having a video like this that I can share with people who have questions along these lines will be very helpful. Your video on religion and war has been very useful in this way already. They are much appreciated!
Thanks, Father explained, so clearly. We are blessed with such rich in faith 🙏
Thanks Father to bring up more to our faith in God 🙏❤️😇
Look at the work of Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell who wrote extensively of images, themes, and symbols in civilizations that never came in any contact with each other.
The South Park episode with the Peter Rabbit, Dan Brown conspiracy story was brilliant parody. It was the first thing I thought of with the thumbnail.
the term "Easter" only exists in German and English.
New linguistic research confirms that the terms used in each case come from the Old High German or Old English words for "facing east".
"Easter egg":
Interest eggs (also called Hubeier) are those eggs that farmers used to have to give to the landlord as ground rent or rent at the end of the interest year, which ended before Easter in the Middle Ages.
The date of Easter arose because in the Middle Ages Christians were forbidden to eat eggs during Lent because chicken eggs were considered a meat dish. The resulting surplus of eggs was used to pay the rent. What was left over was eaten by the family at Easter.
The problem of shelf life was solved by boiling the eggs and coloring them - usually with beetroot - to distinguish them from unboiled eggs. However, especially in the church, the interest egg soon became the gift egg, which was given back to staff, beneficiaries, poor people and, only later, but increasingly, to children during the Easter period.
With the abolition of feudalism and the replacement of natural products with money, the gift egg soon developed into the Easter egg in the modern sense.
"Easter bunny":
Since Ambrose, there has also been an older interpretation of the bunny as a symbol of resurrection. The diverse Christian symbolism of the bunny found expression in many works of art in the Middle Ages, see bunny in art. The connection between the bunny and the Easter egg custom is still unclear, even if the fertility of bunny itself has a close connection to spring. The following hypotheses are often put forward:
Some early painted Easter eggs show the three-bunny image - a depiction of three bunny rabbits with only three ears in total, in which each bunny has two ears due to the "double use" of ears; this is now a well-known symbol for the Trinity (the original meaning is unclear). It is possible that this depiction led to the idea of the rabbit as a supplier of eggs.
In one passage in the Bible, Psalm 104:18, older translations speak of "rabbits". The reason for this was the Latin translation of Proverbs 30:26, in which Jerome translated the Hebrew "schafan" (rock hyrax) as "lepusculus" (little rabbit). Since late antiquity, this passage has been interpreted as a symbol for the weak human (rabbit) who seeks refuge in the rock (Christ). This interpretation established the symbolism of the rabbit in Christian iconography.
In the 17th century, the chocolate rabbit was often given as a gift at Easter.
As for the pagan deity "Ostara", she is an invention of the 19th century, as the name has been deduced as possible root for the word Ostern (German for Easter) by Jacob Grimm (yes, the one with the fairytales). Grimm knew as source the monk Beda Venerabilis (7th-8th century) who explained the word Easter with a spring goddess "Eostrae". Only there is no other source than Beda for the name Eostrae and no other source than Grimm for the name Ostara, which makes the existence of an original cult with Eostrae/ Ostara highly improbable.
I'm a Seventh Day Adventist and some people believe my Church is a cult all because of misunderstandings of what a cult is and that not all cults are the same. It's probably the same reason some believe Catholics are Pagans because they don't understand what Pagan means and not all Pagans are the same.
I learned from a Yale lecture series on the Old Testament that much of the creation story present in Genesis (and later chapters) shared many similarities with ones told in ancient Mesopotamia. However, using a pagan/polytheistic creation story for source material was likely no accident or form of plagiarism. The author was likely aware of these other stories and put its monotheistic twist on it in order to have the book serve as a polemic against belief in the pantheons of the time in favor of an all-good, all-powerful, all-knowing God who created humans in his image and to serve as stewards over all creation. So it appears that co-opting pagan stories and symbols is a long-standing Judeo-Christian tradition.
Mary = Artemis. Suggesting declaration of Theotokos in Ephesus in the shadow of Artemis’s enormous temple wasn’t, at least in part, in response to demand in Asia Minor for a female deity requires one to shut one’s brain off. While not rising to the level of proof, the history of political events that preceded Mary becoming Queen of Heaven is quite compelling, making it the most likely explanation for her ascendance.
Very interesting topic, Father. Thanks for taking it on. One minor point, though: many of the viewers seem to buy into the common myth that Judaism, and thus, Christianity, had a monopoly on the notion of monotheism. In fact, Zorastorism believed in one Supreme God well before Judaism. And what about the belief in a solitary Creator by indigenous peoples of North America ? The Sikhs believe in one God as well , though i dont know their history. The point is although these other monotheistic religions may differ in several key ways from the Judaic-Christian tradition we Christians are, and were, not the only ones to embrace the concept of one supreme God. We werent even the first likely.
A belief in a single Supreme Being may not be original to Jews, but I believe the Trinitarian God was unique to Christianity.
@@jamesrobiscoe1174Good point! The Trinity is solely a Christian concept as far as I know. Thanks.
Do you know why bats are a thing for Halloween? The druids used to burn a bond fire which attracted moths that the bats came out to feast on and the jackolantern was a druid thing as well. They would put out their hearth and the druid priest would give everyone a new piece of bless fire to bring home. Its hard to carry fire in your hands so they would hollow out a vegetable and carry it home in it then they got whimsical and carved faces into the vegetable giving us the pumpkin with a candle in it.
I'm more partial to the advent season . Is there a thanksgiving day divine liturgy .
Even in ancient times, people didn't live in a bubble. Despite history books showing all the cruelty of the times, these different groups of people actually got along for the most part, at least on the personal level.
So they would be exposed to different rituals and traditions. So it is quite possible to find a tradition that you like, but apply your belief structure in it, especially if there is no conflict between the different faiths.
A lot of the music in the American Catholic Hymnal come from Prodastant sources, with sometimes the words altered to avoid herisies.
If people do not explain exactly what they mean when calling Catholic things "pagan", it is impossible to have an illuminating & helpful discussion. One would have thought that this was obvious.
this was significantly less extensive than I had hoped.
Actually, Christmas trees likely don’t have a pagan origin. They were first used in Alsace France in the Middle Ages, for Adam and Eve plays on Christmas Eve.
Ironically enough, the Cult of Sol Invivtus may have started St Constantine’s path to conversion.
Well, Chatolicism has had a lot of sincretism with European pagan religion
And fundamentalist Protestantism has a lot of syncretism with Voodoo.
"He says without a doubt these things are pagan in origin" I dont think that the xmas tree, the easter bunny, eggs etc are pagan at all, and i dont think there is Ny real evidence to say that they are.
This is your best video.
Halloween? I kinda made a video about that a few years ago!
Thank you Fr Casey for speaking the truth
Happy All Hallows Eve
Thank you for your great video's. 👍
I don't know if you should see putting up a Christmas tree as a Catholic custom, my grandparents never put up a Christmas tree, that was pagan, a nativity scene on the other hand, a very beautiful one, in the best room under the Sacred Heart statue. Christmas trees are also put up by Protestants and Muslims, at least here in the Netherlands.
What heresy/religion is spoken of at 5:30 (sun god worship in late middle ages)?
Isn't the Sol Invictus argoment post hoc ergo propter hoc?
St. Boniface made the first Christmas tree by chopping down a pagan worship tree, and there is actually 0 connection between the Easter bunny and eggs (which have separate origins) and anything actually pagan. It is not "without a doubt" that these are pagan symbols that we adopted, but either symbols of victory over paganism or (as you already pointed out) two unrelated ideas sharing symbolisms
those Babylonian exiles certainly had a lot of time on their hands with all that new fangled "writing" !
As I like to call it, "appropriation of pagan symbols for the worship of the True God."
Holy Holy Holy is the Lord of Hosts, the Heaven and Earth are full of HIS Glory!
I recently found out that the Christmas tree might actually come from Adam and eve plays that occurred on December 24th though no one is actually sure were the practice actually comes from this seams like a likely case.
When i was younger i learned that the Dark Ages were caused by 2 factors: the loss of knowledge due to events like the lost library of Alexandria and religion holding back technological advancement. I used to be under the impression most ppl thought that way. How do Catholics believe the Dark Ages occurred? Considering Catholicism was the primary religion of that time period
I feel like the middle ages were done dirty in school. Even the moniker "dark ages" is a misnomer coined by people during the renaissance era to disparage the times before compared to their own time. The medieval period certainly saw a lot of flux after the fall of rome, but knowledge wasn't really "lost", and a lot of that is thanks to the scholarship of the church and its monasteries and universities that copied and preserved texts and manuscripts. Lots of technological advancement happened in the medieval era, just look at the developments in armor, weapons, and fortifications for one. Others include developing the pointed arch which was much more efficient than the roman arch in architecture, developing rotational farming for crops and grazing on manors and freeholds to better care for the soil, looms, windmills, the list goes on. As the only surviving unifying entity the church did find itself more involved in politics and ruling than in the past, but that cut both ways, the church acted as mediator and agent of unity between rulers even as those rulers sought to subsume the church under their power with things like kings appointing bishops rather than the church. But the church was an agent of progress, the roots of science go back to the monasteries and universities and their work in philosophy and reasoning. The mechanical clock was first invented to help track times for work and prayer during the day. Things weren't perfect, but the middle ages are a vast period of time and the idea that nothing happened or things went backwards for a thousand+ years is just kind of silly when you really sit down and think about it, the end of the middle ages was the year 1500, by which time we had mastered ocean sailing and Europe made permanent contact with the Americas
Well said Father!
Regarding the date of christmas, as far as I know the earliest mention of the birth of Jesus being on the 25th of december by hyppolitus of Rome on 204 which would be 70 years before the first mention of this day corresponding to sol invictus as well. If there is an even earlier mention I'm unaware of please let me know.
Additionally, Clement of Alexandria, a contemporaneous source mentions that different groups of christians belived Jesus to be born around April and May but not December. It seems there is not enough data to determine if either where the real date of birth. I believe for some reason december came to be the most popular one at some point, many factors could have influenced which date it was and the significance of the solstice in both daily and religious life could be one of them. This could also be the reason Sol Invictus is celebrated this day, picking the date where the days start to grow longer seem a perfect fit for the Unconquered Sun and likely more influencia in this aspect than Christianity.
Note that regardless any possible influence one way or the other, I don't think this has any theological significance.
Interesting how the words son and sun are pronounced the same in English.
And Catholic churches are supposed to face East, toward the rising sun in remembrance of Jesus' resurrection.
There was a Star Trek episode about that
@@carolynkimberly4021Yeah that’s a practice that goes all the way back to the Essene school of the Israelite religion, who would begin each day with prayers while facing the rising sun.
1. Yes
2. It is fine
3. It is Platonism too
4. It is very fine
Actually here is how it actually happened (from a not a historian: me)
Church: Brother how is the work with the Northern tribes going
Friar: It's... Interesting
C: maybe a feast day could help
F: they want the resurrection
C: when? What do they do for fun
F: solstice party
C: what does that entail
F: lots of alcohol and some weird s with trees
C: won't work anyway, see it has to be forty days after the French thing
F: when the French thing?
C: February
F: Who the h parties in February?
C: it's a fertility party
F: before lent?
C: oh it's this really good idea they have so you know how lent is like penance and abstainance? Well on the day before lent they want...
F: you've got to be kidding me....
C: they are French
F: one more for the road?
C: basically.... Maybe we can do a saint day or something
F: can we just have, you know all the saints?
C: oh.... We literally JUST gave that to the French also
F: when?
C: October
F: harvest festival?
C: um yeah, with some really macrabe stuff you don't want to hear about. It's... Weird.
F: oh yeah.... Probably best to get that one cross branded asap
C: indeed.
F: are you going to let them keep that one?
C: they might have to share it with Mexico.
F: what's that?
C: you'll see. So what do you want then?
F: nativity. Final offer.
C: that's a big ask.
F: these guys saced Rome and they will do it again
C: aha Jesus was a December baby then?
F: he is now.
Like i was told once that the pentagram was originally a Christian symbol. The 5 spikes as the 5 wounds of Christ, and the circle symbolises the alpha and omega. Still not keen on wearing or carrying that symbol anywhere for.. some..odd reason:)
Beautiful :)
All religions and branches there of, have been impacted by other religions and customs, that's just a basic fact... One just needs to take the imagery of Jesus which is directly influenced by Greco-Roman culture. That doesn't make it "bad" its simply a product of a developing understanding of the world.
What?
@@carolynkimberly4021 Simply a religion is at least in part a product of what impacts the people and customs that follow it... Something very simple, the cross only has a significance because it was used as a form of capital punishment, if the Romans had tied people to a wheel, the prevailing Christian symbol might well have ended up something like the Amish Hex sign. Those that want to point at Catholics (or anyone else) for having "impure" beliefs are missing that fact, society is a product of its past.
Curious, is the Roman Catholic Church the contination of The Roman Empire?
Not really. Charlemagne claimed such with his creation of the Holy Roman Empire but even that was a tenuous claim only accepted as the most powerful temporal ruler to come after the fall of Rome, and his being crowned emperor by the church would imply that the church did not view itself as an empire or a continuation of one. The church was mostly not involved or interested in temporal ruling powers outside of cases like the city of rome and surrounding territory
If you compare the Roman Goddess Diana to The Pagan mother Goddess you see the similarities between the two.
There is no overlap between Catholicism and pagan religion.
There are tons of pagan holidays. You can throw a dart at a calendar and chances are it’ll land on a pagan holiday
God is the Creator and the devil is a counterfeiter. God can redeem anything for His glory. Amen.
Judaism is the more pagan religion, both in its polytheistic origins as well as in its dietary restrictions and food for the annual festivals.
One of the things like about Catholicism is its sense of ritual and theater
The Mass is not "theater".
How can you mention horus and not Lutheran satire, preacher man
The IHS in the middle of a picture of a "sun" is not based on paganism.
Who cares if the church repurposed pagan holidays. I can honestly say i have never thought of Halloween being a repurposed druid holiday.
Oh come on, religions always influenced by each other. That's simply how culture works.
Right on
Word.
Bible has incredible scientific accuracy like round Earth 🌎and jet streams and the hydrologic cycle and much more.
Amen
1800's atheist "scholars" and their consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
Good video, small criticism - the Christmas Tree originally appeared in history (and only potentially) in the late 1300's in the central Holy Roman Empire. It was never a pagan symbol. The same thing applies to eggs (Saint Beade never mentioned what Eostre's symbols were IIRC).
We forgive them even though they know what they are doing hehe .. those who are forgiven much love much Godbless you ♡
For arguments sake ... is there truly anything, especially symbols or ritual that can be considered 100% original without finding roots in something else ? All reasoning apart, everything comes from somewhere , especially religion and its symbols.
3, る , ナ and T don’t have the same origins.
@@ttterg6152 look for Angel Vivaldi, he has an album and the titles of the songs are :
.
..
...
....
.....
The swastika is a symbol of evil now. But swastika appear in Native American art that is thousands of years old.
Didn't one of the saints evangelize by chopping down the tree?
Nothing wrong with Traditional religious practices - sadly paganism is evolved to have negative connotations.
In my wedding I included traditional hand binding and an Aboriginal smoking ceremony.
Embrace your inner pagan and be cool
The Catholic Church is not a pagan religion it’s a Christian religion and it’s the church that was created by Christ himself through Saint Peter
*All* religions are based on the religions that came before.