This is long, overly repetitive and excessively cautious. But it is how I feel. Here is the link to the video I spoke about: • Guild Wars 2: Mount Skins
Or SkinGate. Probably more descriptive. More video qualities will process in the coming minutes, I actually delayed the release of this by well over an hour waiting for YT to get it's stuff together and trigger something higher than 360p, but enough waiting is enough! I started this script at 8am, and it's now 11:30pm and I want bed, lol. I'll watch the comments for bit first, though.
Funny thing, two friends today mentioned WP not commenting, and saying maybe he'd just opt out of talking about it. My thought, he is passionate about Anet and will make so e commentary, expect something big.
why r u calling it micro transactions...look at the damn prices!? 2k for a single skin...9k for full pack, and 400 for one...and RNG crap! Its everything else but a micro transaction!?
well Outfits/Gliders are on 700gems without RNG. The price of 400 for 1 License is Ok and it would be better sold, with no outcry if we atleast had the chance to pick what mount i get the roll on. Or pay 700 gems for one i completly choose.
Yeah, imagine the customer could do that. The seller would have to give us an agreeed upon item and then we would give them an envelope randomly pulled from a stack of envelopes with different amounts of money...
I personally blame the 2000 gem forged skin on the guy that made the dragons watch gang skins and tagged them at 2000+ gems. I swear the marketing team saw it as indication that we would be willing to pay that.
I touch on this a little in the video. I don't know if I would squarely "blame" those videos, but I think the community on the whole was definitely signalling something that wasn't going to go well in the end.
i know i will get down voted to hell but the 2000 gem mount isnt a big suprise. Why ? for exaple go to this blizzard site eu.shop.battle.net/en-gb/family/world-of-warcraft they are selling mounts we unique skins for arround 25$ that same as 2000 gems. And this mount is diffrent from the other it has new animations and new sound effects. I would totally ok when it would cost 1000 gems and the normal skisn would cost 600-700 gems
I think to discuss this topic without addressing the emergence of loot boxes as a significant issue in the industry does a disservice to the discussion. This topic has erupted across the industry, particularly in the last month or two. That's why this topic has become as big as it has. It's not an overreaction by Guild Wars 2's player base, it's a continuation of an ongoing issue across the industry as a whole. It doesn't matter how it was implemented, it was going to result in a reaction.
I think you're right. I do touch on this, and I would have gone further but I was hesitant as I'm not sure how interested my audience would be. I cut out a whole section about GoG and being consumer friendly, among other things. A bit weak, probably, given the limits of my own understanding.
Fair enough. It felt like you started to go there but stopped. I just think that's a major part of the issue right now and isolating it to the GW2 player base feels like it's glossing over the root of the problem. Honestly, I think they could have dealt with minimal damage if they had just released a limited one time purchase that allowed you to select one of the 30 skins for 400 gems. Then everyone can get one of the 30 skins they really wanted before having to gamble and most people would have probably been satisfied with that.
It isn't tbh. Why implement it like this? Why even risk it? It's like speeding through a police patrol that is investigating pile-up accident due to speeding, and expecting not to get caught. Guild Wars 2 is already in a low position, not many are satisfied with PoF (and don't go about denying that, just look at the significant amount of forum posts and the news about PoF being lackluster), and this is just icing on a stale cake. Anet has had a history of failing to implement proper rewards systems. Shoving a random roll lootbox into the players' face is a disservice. And what's with 2,000 gems being the only way to receive a guaranteed mount skin? 25$ for a single guaranteed mount skin, that's price of the expansion mind you. That's ridiculous.
Jesus WP you blow me away with your level headed mentality, you're honestly one of the best parts about the community, so no matter what shit comes your way, stay strong and wholesome like you always do. with love.
Zoheir Leub That's what I thought too till I saw him walk away from downed players in this video after the boss fight in Augury Rock. Kinda the unspoken common courtesy of gw2
Yes, but all three were added way after the gliders were released and there were a lot of gem store skins before them. Same goes for the halloween outfit too. Just because we didn't get any of the mount skins for free in one and half months after the release of PoF, doesn't mean that we can definitively say that there won't be any non-gemstore skin.
I don't always agree with your take on things, but I do respect your opinions when my own differ. This video, however, is spot on. I'm so glad you didn't add to the hyperbolic vitriol, but DID find the RNG repugnant. I really feel like all they had to do was offer each skin for 400 gems without RNG and everything would have been fine.
On an logical level, when have you gone to a pound, asked to adopt a dog, then made to spin a wheel to see which of the dogs you get, without getting a say in which one you actually want.
That's messed up, I believe this system was in there because of ArenaNet's lack of confidence in their design of these mount skins. Thinking that everyone is just going to go for the "good looking' mount skin in their opinion which made them implement this loot box-ish system
I have an argument about all this "I'll uninstall unless you listen to me" nonsense. I live in Bosnia, it's a third world country, I'm unemployed, I got the base/vanilla game on a 50% discount some four years ago, I got HoT standard edition and PoF standard edition and both of them pre-purchased, I finished a collection for a precursor, I got two precursors drop for me, I got nine character slots, I got three glider skins and I got two outfits - NEVER have I, or will I complain about cosmetic items in the game. It's all earn-able by getting more gold. Noone MAKES you buy all the items and skins and outfits, nor does it impede your ability to progress the game if you don't have them. If they were selling elite specs or ascended or legendary items for "premium" currency, and for premium currency ONLY - then I would have a problem with that, but now, asking for money or play time to grind the money to get cosmetic items (even tho they are RNG), should not bother anyone. Just play, enjoy and if you can buy an adoption licence if you want one. If you don't care about how your mounts look like: don't. Easy as that. I love GW2 for it's lore and gameplay, not for how cool, or wacky my character looks. But that's just my humble opinion...
I am vehemently opposed to any game leaning toward purchase options that do not give us choice. I'm not angry about it, I'll simply vote with my money in the sense of refusing to give even a single gem to this system. Sadly marketing research has shown repeatedly that a few people who love slot-machine style returns will earn more money for a company than a variety of purchases from normal players, and many companies opt for the short-sighted choice of itemizing toward those players despite the fact that it is terrible for the long term health of a game. That said, NCSoft has a lot of leverage over ANet due to low overall profit from the franchise compared to what the hype made them expect (WoW killer comments were discouraged by ANet even then, but investors are only interested in big wins, not reasonable returns.), and the content drought time period REALLY hurt. The thing I am more upset about here is the fact that we're getting this huge negative press so soon after PoF launch and the injury to the game's health that will result.
Thank you for being the most level-headed, logical, common sensed, and wise person during this time of hysteria within the guild wars 2 community. I hope your words can be the water to turn the flames into embers, to keep the fire smoldering but not blazing. Keep up the fantastic work.
WP, I genuinely appreciate your level headed thought process and discussion and thank you for actually holding your own stance. You're a credit to the community.
This video is part of the reason I enjoy watching you WP, you manage to stick to your opinions no matter how much people may disagree. Your integrity and high quality production is what keeps me watching even if I don't agree! You managed to change my mind on this and I'm glad you did!
Moorland You are so easily swayed. He's not neutral at all, and yet he doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds him i mean if this were a dog or an employee i'd say he's a success. Hopefully i didn't change your mind about him, only reason i like his content is because he's a lore nerd and i happen to like lore.
I'm glad you made this video, because I had been almost contemplating quitting recently. I wasn't mad, I was just so disappointed that it kept feeding into itself. So thanks for being reasonable and helping me put all of my thoughts in order. To that end I really wish they would implement a three-tiered structure for mount sales. 1. 1600-2000 gems for five packs of themed mounts with special effects. Could be five flame mounts or Shadow mounts or just 5 jackals. 2. 2000 or so for in-depth mounts with new models and special animations. 3. 3 to 400 gem boxes for the simpler mount skins that are more muted in flavor. They may not be flashy, but they're also inexpensive and you get a mount every time.
Watched this whole video at 2x speed took 30 minutes, I now have 30 minutes to watch more WP videos. You're extremely easy to understand even at 2x speed, so props to you!
You said its a good feeling when people agree with you and I have to say, its a great feeling to hear you echo my own sentiments. Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
This whole thing can be summed up in 3 memes. Players: "Shut up and take my money", Anet: "Challenge accepted", Players: "This isn't how this works at all".
I was in the disappointed category...partly to my own fault. You mention the "shut up and take my money" crowd...well I was in that. But that was with the expectation they would release mount skins individually...for probably around 800 gems. I bought the ultimate version of the expansion entirely with the purpose of saving the gems for the inevitable mount skins. Then they added the halloween mount bundle and I was of the mindset "Holy shit...5 mount skins for 1600 gems...if this is the trend I am so in!" But then expectation met reality when they released the adoption licenses...the timing of which made it all the more jarring because of the broad trend in AAA games recently with lootboxes and gambling mechanics. Literally not even 48 hours prior three of us (Myself and two mates) were talking again about the Activision patents and the impact lootboxes had on Middle Earth: Shadow of War as we ran the Labyrinth. And it just hit us as all that sewage driving us to play GW2 more because we didn't want to play games that had it...had run into GW2 now. And you're right the BLTC has always been there but we all pretty much ignore it...we figured out long ago it would be easier to just buy whatever thing we want from the trading post. Except of course the new stuff like the backpack/gliders or the Balth outfit...which should have been a red flag but again went over our heads because we tend to ignore the existence of black lion chests. Like I said I stockpiled gems...I was waiting to pay double what they want for a license for an individual mount and still am. Or even more...if I am truly blown away by a particular skin (Hint: Not the flaming metal cyclops ram). But I want to buy a product...not a dice roll. Had there been no RNG factor...and had it not come at the time it did with all the other controversies in the broader gaming scene...I would have had nothing to complain about and I doubt most would have either.
Agree so much with this. More or less summarizes my feelings on the subject. Anet primed us to buy individual mount skins with the introduction of individually sold glider skins... then went another route. Not to mention RNG is getting bad press lately. I can't imagine why you'd stick your hand in that wasp's nest. Hope it doesn't have to do with profit desperation. :/
This is why I still watch your videos: You reason clearly! I stopped playing years ago and couldn't care less about mount skins, but I still enjoy your discussions because they are well reasoned and well presented. Which game they happen to concern is not the important part for me. Keep it up!
I feel most every point you touched on was valid. You discussed nearly every possible thought process the community may have had and gave many people reason to rethink their exaggerated backlash. You make it difficult for me to add anything to the discussion because you mention nearly every possible scenario. For example, at 45:30 you say you believe this instance of backlash will have an effect although you're unsure of how small or large it may be. Then, at 46:30 you question whether community has the ammunition to make an effect at all. Now, I doubt whether my opinion is worth sharing, but I'll try to add to the discussion. While I generally do agree that this is overblown, part of me disagrees. This is my first comment regarding the situation, so I think it's important to establish that I'm not trying to defend my own actions. It's a no brainer that the threats are useless and ridiculously uncivil. I noticed a good portion of your argument is that you don't feel the backlash will have much of an effect, while in most cases I would agree, this seems to be a somewhat different situation. It appears the majority of the population is in disagreement, so the press outside of the normal GW2 circle has gotten hold of this story. This is where ArenaNet becomes worried as events like this aren't exactly common. Now, Anet has to find the risk vs reward balance as the people in charge of the gem store expected a certain amount of revenue gain from this as they don't release gem store items daily. This is in order to not distract from previously released items and maximize profits. Their risk involved people voting with their wallets, but now it battles possible future box sales as well. My thoughts may become moot when referring to your point at 45:50 stating it may not be our place to discuss or care about sales as consumers. In addition, you also said we likely don't have the qualifications to determine what is profitable or expected, which is completely true in my case, but I'll continue. Voting with your wallet sounds like a good idea, and I agree usually is, but I believe this instance is unique. The majority seems upset with the implementation and they want immediate action. Not only might Anet misinterpret why people aren't buying the skins ("We're having trouble selling the adoption contracts, maybe the skins we included aren't cool enough"), but it takes time to see results when your intentions are interpreted correctly. I don't believe you can expect the mob mentality to ever change, as nice as the thought may be. People want results now and will have their voices heard by numerous news sources if not ArenaNet. In conclusion, I have a large problem with the gem store as you do. We may or may not share exact reasoning as to why, but I'll share part of mine. I believe the gem store should have had a different idea than selling, cosmetics, what a large portion of player base considers endgame. For example, other games may consider endgame to be having the best stats. How would you feel simply being able to buy the best staff from the gem store? I think it shares the same ideology as the many free FPS games where you can just buy the best guns or mobile games that play themselves for a price. I don't believe that's fair to consumers. If they wanted the game to be about cosmetics they should have made the gem store sell convenience services and other items we haven't had to consider existing because our current gem store mostly sells cosmetics. If they wanted the game to be about stats, they should have made the gem store sell cosmetics. To me, it's as if they're competing against their own game right now. Include nice skins in the game or in the gem store? Yes, you can argue there's other things in GW2 to consider as endgame, but I think many can agree a lot of people think cosmetics are the only endgame. That last paragraph may have gone a little off topic or been incoherent, but I think it's somewhat related. And the rest may have not added anything to the discussion, but I wanted to voice my opinion.
Ugh, I made so many posts sorry everyone, I'll sum up my thoughts here, 1. Do I think that its a shoddy system? Yes, the RNG implementation is a terrible idea and the prices are on the steep side, 2. Do I think the backlash is overblown? Yes, however I don't think you give the "broader gaming" thing enough credit, this isn't necessarily coming from GW2 entirely, people are just SICK of being nickel and dimed all over the gaming industry, I think its possible that alot of the backlash is just frustration from other games bleeding over 3. What's my beef? THE SKINS THEMSELVES, holy hell, look at these things, Legendary Weapons can be a bit annoying but these? No, makes me almost glad that the PoF maps are kind of empty right now, I would go blind staring at Sun Griffins, seriously! This is one of those things that needs to have an option "Turn off Particle effects for other players mounts" The styling isn't my problem, GW2 has always had silly or out of place skins, my issue is too many lights and particle effects interfering with whats going on
Thanks for being honest WP! One way that could remedy this is for example add a mount skin contract at the end of a pvp/wvw reward track. When you first beat PoF. Ect. Very rarely, but at least gives you a way to farm, and maybe spend the rest on gems with the gold you make on the way/pull out credit card.
That seems quite unrealistic. If we get some cool mounts behind some legendary items that you can get in game, which I hope they do, then I would be quite glad already. As long as they look as cool as that Jackal mount.
Arenanet needs the money for the future, so i dont see any reason for them to add the skins in game. The mount skins are actually very cheap, the only problem here is the rng.
Yes. I get it. Companies need money. Surprising! Your reasoning doesn't make sense in the context of 30 new skins being saved for this gem store item. Also, Rng isn't a problem if done right. But my sense of "right" may be different then yours or Bob's next door. Reddit on mounts sounds like a couple people rolled for one skin and were instantly pissed when they didn't win a 1/30. Sorry but that is gambling, you can lose. Fun fact. If you will get mad over losing, don't play the game maybe?
"What you say is unrealistic because it didn't happen". Ahh no? Why is this unrealistic? I was simply giving some solutions to start the ball rolling. I was looking at a system that worked for Overwatch, where you can buy loot skins but also pull out the credit card. This seems like a viable solution, at least at the very least on paper.
actually, having a legendary mount skin that'd be incorporated as a legendary could work maybe? It's a bit similar as what they did to get the griffonmount I guess? But I think (an easier option for a-net) if they make a contract per mount-group and then a contract that includes all groups, but at a slightly lower price (keep this at 400 gems and a mount-group contract at like idk 500?) That could take out a lot of the toxicity already. especially since gems are fairly easy to get with gold anyway...
Thanks for the video. And your honesty, it is much easier for someone like me who is returning after 1.5+ years of being away to understand what's going on and make my own view about it.
It isn't a charged reaction from me. It was disappointment... Simple sad disappointment... Fashion Wars 2 man... Skins do matter in this game. And I shouldn't have to pay for 30 skin just to get 1 that I want. To have the only way of avoiding gambling with my money be to pay for all the skins is not ok man. Give us a way to buy individual skins, make it more expensive but don't require us to buy all of them to get around it. Sorry WP, I know you wanted me to watch the whole video before commenting on this but this is simply my feeling about it and wanted to show that they are not as rage-filled as you mentioned in the beginning of the video. They are measured and simply a response to a company that sells a product to me. Now that I got this out of my head I will go ahead and listen to your feelings on the issue.
And I'm back, after watching the video, to say that I agree with you. I am very glad that you are not waving it away, saying that it isn't bad for the customers. Besides that I think almost all of your arguments are valid and very well put. As I said in my comment I wasn't angry, I was disappointed and this seems to be what you felt aswell if I read you correctly. Finally I would like to say that I will vote with my wallet. I have never bought anything in GW2 with real world money that was RNG based and won't start now. I get the irony of me announcing that here in a comment, I do, but let me balance that out then with me hopefully telling people to please do the same. I really would hope people try to avoid Loot Boxes in not only GW2 but in gaming in general. It is incredibly bad game design in almost all cases and a quite scummy buisness practice too. Don't let this become a new standard in the industry!
You guys see that frostforge mount? Well get ready to pay that price for each cool-looking mount you want cus the money train has just arrived at the station baby.
Made it to the end. I am a boss now WP said it himself =) But in all seriousness I really appreciate your honnest and level-headed approach to this topic. its the sole reason this 3944 second monstrosity of an video is not only barable but also interesting and, above all else, actually constructive in terms of the overall discussion. One last thing though: i am watching your stuff since 2011. I think i have seen the majority of your content on gw2 and all the conntent on gw1. Thus, contrary to what you said in your disclaimber, this realistic aproach WAS exactly what i expect of you ;) keep up the good work mate!!!
There is a part of the community you almost never touch on and that's roleplayers - people who use the game and the lore as a spring board for some of their own stories and ideas. Role playing creates context and value for skins where the game does not. But then, that seems to emphasize your point further - players are having to make their own stories to get a sense of satisfaction that the game itself can't provide.
Finally a unique point. I bought some of the minion unbreakable tools and a spectral glider for my necro. It makes my white-washed, cultureless necro feel something like the old days. Still could use more light leather armor. Why hasn't Eve's outfit been released yet? It was sexy in the first game and something I wanted back then too.
As a roleplayer I can maybe help answer this question. The game lacks a lot of basic quality of life features geared towards roleplayers that a lot of other MMOs have (Emotes diversity, sit-able chairs, player homes, a decoration system that allows fine adjustment, etc.)...... but those features are not the primary thing that draws me or many other players to the game. The primary draws for me and most of the roleplayers in this community has been the detailed lore and well fleshed out world as well as unique setting that Guild Wars takes place in. It may not have the best STORY ever, but the world itself is carefully crafted and offers a lot that other MMOs couldn't even dream of touching. On top of that, a lot of roleplayers who play in an MMO aren't here to just RP... I know that comes as a shock to some, but we can get our RP fix on forums or chat services without ever entering a game. The game itself has to bring something to the table too, whether it be the absolutely amazing environments, the diverse racial choices, the incredible lore potential, or just the fun and active game-play style. I love Guild Wars. I love the setting. I love the races. Not being terribly RP friendly isn't enough to detract from just everything else that the game has to offer. (Also, I would argue that RPers play fashion wars harder than any other group of people in this game)
Roleplayers make their own emotes. What hurt more was the inability to interact with furniture properly! What also hurt was megaservers and the increase in emote range, so you risk being trolled pretty hard when you emote in open world. Some role players have resorted to playing in party or squad chat, or retreated to guild halls but there definitely has been a decline in the amount of role players.
The point about sittable chairs/furnature has already been made, but I will add to this: Roleplayers in general feel like Arenanet doesn't care for them, or worse, doesn't want them doing what they're doing. This sounds hyperbolic, probably doomsay-ey, but it's true. You know those areas in the game that you could get to through void jumping? RPers used that, and with PoF void jumping has (For the most part) stopped functioning. Add to that various story instance areas that now you can't glide too, or use mounts to get into, and RPers feel like areas they COULD RP in now are unreachable. This is unfair, sure. But considering the lack of actual indoor areas in this game, and some important areas that are unreachable outside of instances (Durmand priory's inner area, and library are big ones, for example.) Or somehow breaking into them, the removal of ways to reach them makes people feel like some of the few things we had got taken away.
22:30 there were 3 gliders earnt from the legendary backpieces. And i guess the wool one can be earnt from that wintersday quest (but the chest to earn it was gemstore right?).
Regardless of backlash from previous videos, there are times where one should become emotionally charged and pick a side. This was one of those. I understand where you're coming from, and that you do try to see both sides of the equation; however, Arena Net has shown their hand, and that they're no longer making reasonable decisions when it comes to their regular purchasers. It started with the waypoint unlock package, and has continued from there. I realize it's just numbers and business to some at the company, but I can't remain supportive of a channel that won't pick the side of the customer...at the very least in the case where the consumer is absolutely justified in their reaction. Game on, and best of luck!
Glad to hear another voice of logic and reason. I hadn't thought of the damage that the other ranting could do to the overall view of the game from outside, but you are correct that it would likely be really damaging.
What if u could buy mount adoption contract from the heart vendors u originally got ur mount from,for example vendor from raptor ranch will only sell adoption contract for raptor and they r sold for 400 gem or maybe a little higher for each,that way people wont end up like 10 skimmer and 0 other skins,rng will still exist,gems will still sell,people with huge amount of money will still buy all 30.but this way the average player can atleast get 1 skin for each mount
Great video as always. I'm glad you explained your reasoning behind yours thoughts and were honest. It means a lot, and it's probably one of the reasons why I enjoy all of your videos too. Thank you.
Eh, it’s kinda shortenable... I think just the conclusion probably is the best summary, but it wouldn’t be a particularly good, IMHO. You’re right when you said at the beginning that it’s a complex topic. Some things just take a while to work through.
What annoys/frustrates me the most is the reasoning. Ever single person you see in POF has purchased it, that's bound to have covered the development costs of the DLC ten fold. So why didn't they just make then all purchasable as single things for 400-1200 gems? I'm very confused about why they did this. The amount of people that are outraged about the RNG element who would have happily of payed for one or more skins if they had been individually purchasable, are there purchases really outweighed by people who purchase the RNG based system skins? I'd love to see the numbers on that. Lets say that 1 in 4 people would purchase a mount skin or two in the system wasn't RNG based (Individually purchasable) But now lets say that only 1 in 50 people buy one or potentially 30 of these RNG ticket things. What would be more profitable? I'd like to hope it the more consumer friendly purchase, but I feel like it's the RNG system. oh well, ty for reading ; )
As i was watching this video i decided to have a look at the mount skins and noticed that i can pick from a small selection. Decided this was the best option and as i was going through with it you said about having a more expensive option for picking a mount. Which is exactly what i had done. So thanks for the video and the idea :)
I want to mention that unless you are a TP Baron you wont have remotely close to the amount of gold necessary for an RNG-based purchase like this, it takes me a good 3-8 weeks to earn 100 gold depending on how much I play and this system is only available for 7 days. So unless you already have a massive amount of gold sitting on your account Gold to Gems isn't a viable option, especially considering that due to the release of this gem store update the price for 400 gems is almost 150 gold
thesuminer 100 gold for 3-8 weeks of playing?!! Jesus christ man, what do you do in game?!! i don't mean to dismiss your comment but this is a lot more interesting.
I think avg is 6-12g a few hours of playing. If you play a couple hours a day that's at least 100g in 2 weeks. On the weekends when I play 5 hours I easily hit high gold returns from just walking around and doing events. :/ Not sure why your income is suffering but that's odd
Nice to hear a level-headed viewpoint on this topic, mad respect. 👍 And while I am probably a lot more disappointed than you, I agreed from hour 1 of the patch, before the community exploded, before any of this, that I'd be voting with my gems on the issue. I don't pay for RNG, it's as simple as that. And I'm looking forward to buying mount skins.
NC soft has been pushing for more aggressive microtransactions for years. Look at their other products and then check back at guild wars. Its amazing Anet has managed to endure so much of it without doing anything this drastic before.
I like your way of seeing both sides and also not falling into the trap of "I'm trying to have a point, therefore I will ignore everything that goes against my agenda". Nice video!
The propotion of the outrage for me just underlines how the playerbase cares about gw2 and how they are afraid that it will end up like EA/Activision. When EA/Activision pull something with microtransaction nobody is dissapointed, because they have come to learn that this companies are like that. On the otherside players have come to love gw2 for the consumer friendly approach and because of locking off mountskins behind RNG people are angry and dissapointed. Why not just have MountSkins on the gemstore induvidually like you said at the end of your video? They should have done what they did with gliders when HoT came out and not push the boundries. Sure they can keep the license thing with reduced price but also have the option to buy the desired skins directly without a RNG lock in front of it.
Thank you very much for this video! It is great that you, as one of the public figures in the community, are able to remain calm and have a differentiated opinion - regardless of whether people agree or disagree, I hope people respect that.
I am confused why this is a huge thing. GW2 is awesome because we don't have to pay a sub fee each month to play it. But it is a business that employs people, has to pay for buildings and equipment and health insurance and so they have to make money. The gem store is a necessary component of that. Whether you love it or hate it or are ambivalent to it, that is a fact. Those who are upset have to then ask themselves are you willing to pay each month to play the game you love to lose the hated gem store and items that come up? When I saw the prices and found out about the RNG my first thought was cool. I can slowly earn in game money and convert it to gems and try my luck when I have some extra in game cash, or maybe on a month when money is not as tight I will spent ten bucks and buy some gems and see what I come up with. I saw it as a long term thing to work towards and identified it as what it was - Anet paying their employees and bills with putting something people said they wanted up for sale. Spreading hate and divisiveness doesn't help anyone or the game we all love to play. I hope the community can grow and move past this sooner than later.
This expansion already costs 30 bucks, so this price has to include all the bills and insurance for employees. Everything that comes apart is directed only for monetization and leeching money from the player base. If you want to spend real money on skins - you're welcome. But if somebody does not, there has to be other ways to obtain this skins.
Geshque Myasnikov if you take a game like wow for example, you have to pay a sub fee every month AND for new expansions. The sub fees are a way of earning money consistently and between expansions. Gw2 of course, has no sub fee so things like this rng mount skin thing is completely reasonable. Guessing you're for sub fees then?
Well there is a way in game to get it without paying real life money for it. It is to earn in game gold and then convert that money to gems and buy what you want from the gemstore. :) And no the cost of an expansion does not cover all the costs to run a game company between expansions. That is why some games have a sub fee AND you also have to pay a cost for the expansions. At least, with GW2 we don't have to pay a sub fee.
"so this price has to include all the bills and insurance for employees" Is there a reason why the 30 dollar price tag has to include all these things? I have a feeling you are talking complete nonsense.
RowinnPlays, I totally agree with everything you said. I see the gemstore as an alternative to subfees that I do not have to buy into. I can choose and that makes this game amazing.
That LBA2 music at the end!! Also yeah, I liked listening to this just to know what happened, you described things pretty comprehensively and made any subjective feelings clear.
anet pls listen to this man i can only agree i hope they find a way to make the playerbase happy i think it would be cool if there could also be drops for the skins like in wow or other mmos i feel like anet is focusing a little bit to much on the gemstore (just watched a 1h video now i feel like a pro in terms of knowlege about rng) lol
its nice to hear a level head; i havent made it through the whole video yet but a couple of things to point out; you said is 12k gems for all 30 at the start; which it can be if you buy all the licenses one by one; but if bought as a full 30 pack they're 9.6k or 10.2k as 3*10 packs (which i went for because i didnt notice the 30 pack because for some stupid reason its a completely different item on the gem store) also not sure if theyre mentioned; but my perspective is that licenses arent bad (rng means we get cheap mounts for collectors)...it sucks for people who only want one or two specific mounts and ive frequently suggested that anet shouldve let players bypass the rng and purchase a specific mount for 2/3* the price of a single license i also disagree with people saying theres only a few 'good' mounts and the box is bloated; because i think the vast majority of them are very good (but not all are eye rapingly gaudy; which seems to be what these people want) ... also the system is a massive step up from black lion chests; which lack any kind of rng failsafe and suffer from horrendous bloating (all the weapon skins in the rare tiers instead of a single box with a selectable weapon type from that set)
I'm moderately amused that you brought up visual integrity while the video has you running around on a charr in full lime green dye and wearing a mask.
My son spent 120 gold to end up getting a skimmer skin that was not very cool at all. He rarely uses his skimmer, so I can see where you could get a little miffed about it. He was a bit upset. I bought one skin and got the spotted bunny skin but I use my bunny quite alot so I wasn't too upset about it. The skins look really good with shadow abyss and crimson lion or imperial red dyes.
you shouldn't waste gold if yer gunna be miffed when you know its totally random which skin you get and most of the skins are ugly(base colors). It's called gambling. I hope your son is familiar now with the concept. You put your hard earned money in, the house gets rich and you may or prolly may not win. Anet did it this way to make money and make people use their credit cards! not just ingame gold. I don't like it either, but i'm a grown up(sometimes :D) and i understand businesses like MUN EEEEEEEE!
I completely agree with you. And I think a lot of it can also be attributed to people kidding themselves and having a lack of self-understanding. Because obviously a bunch of people just said they have the money to throw around but then got stingy with the actual wealth they own. KNOW THYSELF (which isn't necesarilly easy).
I think people have a right in being this mad .. Gw2 is a comestic game .. PoF came with mounts, no skin earnable in game tho .. that sucks .. this is no ordinary game. Skins is all we have. Yet the coolest shit is dropped in the gemstore. That cannot be allowed.
Yeah, agreed. All of the Gem Store content wouldn't be so bad if there was meaningful progression aside from cosmetic upgrades in the actual game to accompany gem store cosmetics. Even Legendary weapons are technically cosmetic (aside from stat swap). It's just a shame the way they've handled progression and gear in this game.
GW2 were upfront from the start about the gem store being about convenience and cosmetics. You may only care about cosmetics, but I would far rather the game still had money to finance Living Story updates. Hopefully they go the same way as gliders and have a couple unlockable by finishing legendaries, but remember it took time for that to become an option.
GW2 end-game is essentially about doing achievements for cosmetics, or going for a legendary (cosmetic). So my point wasn't that I have a problem with the gem store per se, but rather the fact that the gem store items COMPETE with gameplay rewards instead of complimenting them. Getting loot rarely feels rewarding because there's always something as cool or cooler in the gem store and stats are usually negligible. I have no qualms about buying things from the gem store (I have many times), but I hope you can see my point. They really need to justify gem store content with real IN-GAME content (better progression). idk...maybe I'm just jaded. Hope you understand my point of view though. :)
I tried to justify people's opinion even tho I don't think this system to be as bad as people point it out. Like WP said, the time it was released and the way they did it was the real killer here. Excluding the jackal mount, which is subjective(if you think of it as a legendary item that you can just grind the gold and buy it) the pack containing them all for 9K gems was a killer move. Because if we look at this system as a long term reward, I will gamble a few Gs seeing if I can get a skin for my Raptor / Jackal / Griffon. My odds if I play twice are quite high. Plus, the skins in that box are all worth 400 gems. Some do deserve the price tag (the crappy ones) but the good ones, which are not so few, could very well worth 700-800 and yet are in the same package. Ofc I still believe allowing you to choose what you want is and will always be the best solution. But like Deroir showed in his video, I recommend checking it out, it generates way less money.
"Gw2 is a cosmetic game" This statement. For some, yes. For most, maybe still yes but I doubt it. For all, absolutely not. I play the game for the story and new maps, both living world and expansion content. Since living world is more constant over time, I am playing more for that. We see plenty of people rush back to the game every time there is new content of story or maps. You can not say that these people are here only for the cosmetics otherwise the population would spike to the same number for each gemstore release. I would far rather the cosmetic stuff almost entirely be on the gemstore and only the progression stuff, like legendaries be in game. At least that way there is company money to make living world. As an aside, progression cosmetic stuff should have prestige. Therefore you do not want much of it that you progress to so that it sticks out. But you can have plenty of it for upfront purchase as none of the purchase stuff should have any prestige attached to it. By that reasoning, most cosmetics should be on the gemstore.
Thanks for taking a genuinely level-headed stance on this. It's easy to be a popular part of the community and join the hype train, but what people really need is someone who can put things in a different light, just so that they'll listen and start to actually think about things rather than automatically feeling upset. There's a lot to cover, and I think you did a great job doing so.
My takeaway here is, I am just too old and tired for controversy. If a developer consistently does things I do not like, I just (quietly) move on. And as an aside, I do think outrage culture is a big part of the "backlash". Edit: You are right about statistics. My knowledge - I briefly worked in the industry - is a few years old, but you can assume that an F2P game makes about twice as much money per player as a subscription based game does. That's per player, not "per paying player".
Good video WP you raised some very interesting points that got me thinking about bits I hadn't considered for sure, even if I did disagree with some bits (sorry for the multiple comments but hey I wanted to comment alongside it ;) ) Again respect for putting this out given the atmosphere at the moment, certainly no one can ever criticise you for not being honest and true to yourself.
Though I might add something that I don't recall hearing you say in your video, about why why so many are so vocal this monetization system. Basically it all boils down to the fact people are so angry about this because the mounts were generally praised by the players, in virtue of its introduction and use in the content. Like you I agree that is hate is out of proportion and this argument personally makes me think that this hate is even more ridiculous because mounts as it stands are so much more than skins and they are not a copy paste of any other mounts in any other games that use mounts.
Excellent video. Although I don't spend money on the gem store I have been keeping up with the outrage on this topic. Your video was much more exhaustive than the others I've seen and you brought up several points I didn't even consider.
I actually agree with your ingame RNG points, if it's portrayed well and makes sense. I also agree that Anet has had one of the best-used microtransaction models (other than the awful black lion chests, but somewhat alleviated by ingame means)... until this system, as well as adopting the frankly insane mount skin costs from other MMOs for the jackal... It's obviously using manpower to produce, but if it needs a price tag of 2000 gems, it should not be a project for the game. I see people say "anyone can make gold and buy it", but that's not entirely the point for me, and it is not going to be nearly all players that buy them either. I want to encourage a healthy system for players AND A-net both. Not sugar-coating an awful system (when monetized) for players where their reward brain function is preyed upon... as you say, a bit sleazy. Anyway, thanks for your opinion on it all. I do think your voice carries and I do not mind the video length at all making a point, though I must admit I am editing this as I watch the tail end. :) Still, never let video length bar the way, I say!
it seems that they are taking a more aggressive stance to their marketing. releasing the waypoints for all of tyria was the first time i thought that they made the game pay to win. i have 14 characters on my main account and 5 on my secondary, and not once have i been tempted to fudge on exploration. you could argue that its to help new players, but personally i feel they took the heart out of the game.
Just curious, but how is releasing all way points in Tyria pay to win? Why can't someone just do the exact same thing, but without using the gem store?
My thoughts with the waypoints pack are for whales who want to play with their guild for mission/dailies without being escorted around the game, or guilds that don’t want to escort (which is sad).... but that argument is pretty thin on the ice... as long as it’s just cosmetic and QoL in the cash-shop I do not care much.
Not everybody likes doing everything again. To me I loved doing the map the first time, I loved doing it the second time. But on my other characters I have maybe the most important ones like Lion's Arch and the xpac areas and nothing else. It's annoying to do the same things over and over again, grinding is okay because that at least offers progression compared to doing literally the same thing with no chance of getting a drop or whatever
Totally agree on the Waypoint Pack as well, I just don't see the point in playing an MMORPG where exploration is a such a huge part of the experience and then cutting that all out for convenience sake. People talk about doing it on alts repeatedly, fine, but what is the reasoning behind this? It's not like you need specific classes for world bosses, and even for things like Guild Missions you can often use the portal in your Guild Hall. Seems to me if you're doing map exploration on loads of characters you must enjoy some aspect of it so why shortcut it with gems?
Yeah don't see the point of making waypoints a thing you buy. Like i'm genuinely confused, why? Seems like a useless thing designed to trick only people new to the game into wasting money.
3 minutes in: I'm heartened by your reaction so far and your dedication to personal integrity (not just jumping on a hate bandwagon for the sake of it etc.). If it's any consolation for the knot you had in your chest making this video, I have a similar (though probably less extreme) knot in my chest listening to it, but these 2-3 minutes of intro have assuaged my fears somewhat. May come back to edit this comment after listening further. Edit: I should have had more faith in you hehe. I agree with a lot of the things you said.
I think your solution is actually a good one. I don't mind if the RNG is still there for a lower price if I also have the option to buy exactly what I want. What I got angry about was that it literally felt like an insult to anyone who is (more than) willing to spend their hard-earned cash on gems. I make it a point to view gem purchases as supporting a dev studio that I greatly care about and want to see continue on. But in return, I believe it's only fair not to be cheated out of the "reward" I want to get, I believe that's simply a matter of respect. Do I feel they crossed a line with this? Yeah. Am I foaming at the mouth because of it? Hell no. And especially I don't feel any anger at the devs themselves, I highly doubt it was their idea, and as someone who works in doftware development himself I know how it feels to have to implement things you do not feel the least bit happy with personally. They're just doing their job in the end, and all things considered, they're doing it well.
I deeply appreciate your mature cool-headed approach to controversial topics, and how you present multiple sides of the issues. It's always a good listen even when I disagree with you.
The problems with it: 1) Its loot boxes, they cost way too much for a chance to get absolutely nothing from it 2) They held back THIRTY mount skins just so they can toss it onto the gem store, this could easily have either been in-game content or repackaged to so people can get skins for specific mounts. This is targeted towards kids who have no control over themselves when they spend daddy's money. Take a look at CSGO 3) This practice will continue, anet has had enough time to make a statement. They're laughing all the way to the bank 4) Some skins ruin the artistic and atmospheric integrity of the game, people have opted to choose the most tasteless dye possible and make their cosmic griffon look like a fking light bulb. This is worst than some infusion and legendaries, this is a LARGE ass model that is flying around everywhere. This is not tera. 5) They chose to do this when lootboxes were under fire. Im assuming, some executives saw how sucessful the lineage mobile games are doing and are pushing anet to make more money 6) Fools who think shitty business practices can be overlooked because you can convert gold is making a serious joke of our community 7) They wanted us to advertise with word of mouth? Well congratz. Any praises from PoF is going to be overshadowed by this, we're going to A) Lose players B) Lose potential players and C) Anet is going to milk us for what is left cuz of A and B. We're looking to grow the community, in case they havnt noticed, the game seems to have a very small and intimate population as it is. You're an MMO, the genre is having an issue as is, dont pretend like its overwatch or CSGO. Cut out the cancer, root and stem. Call me overdramatic, but i want this game to succeed, but get this loot shit out of the game And before you ask, yes BLC with exclusive skins ARE being complained about. We're not going to have a whataboutery conversation /rant EDIT: i.redd.it/dyi2sq2cmmwz.jpg Nuff said.
2) They held back THIRTY mount skins just so they can toss it onto the gem store did you not see this coming? of course this is how they were going to do it.
I' m seriously not sure if you are trying to be sarcastic... to 1.) You get nothing? As far as my understanding goes, u get 1 new skin for every license... the argument of getting nothing isn't valid, since taste is subjective (for some it looks nice for some it's garbage) to 2.) it's ANet's choice what they put into the game and what into the gemshop. after months or years every player should have known that. to 4.) the look of some skins ruin the atmosphere? well good morning, this is a mmorpg, maybe try a single player :D skyrim is nice. to 6.) imagine the game without the gold to gems option... 1 skin maybe 1 week of casual gameplay. ppl complain about the lack of long term goals, well here they are! And after all, you might have some points, I give you that. But are you like new to the game? BLC chests have worse RNG and are in the game since launch and I bet ppl bought more keys while getting less.
1) How many of the skins, out of 30, did you want? You can only equip 5. Got a griffin skin you like on the first try and want to roll another? NOPE. HERES ANOTHER ONE. 2) It is their choice, and it is also the consumer's choice to say that such business practices are bad of business. We're in the limelight right now, and not for good reasons. You think theyre just going to stop? Theyre laughing all the way to the bank. Their decision has consequences. 4) This game had an artistic integrity, people like me who played since the beginning, got into this game because it wasn't like other MMO. Now we have ugly ass light bulbs flying around, its an eye sore 6) Gold to gem is NOT content. Should they never release armor ingame anymore and just sell them in the gem store? People shouldn't be bent over sideways and fucked and pretend like its the norm.
As for arguing for phantoms, a player who suffers from gambling addiction made a post on the forums and explained as much as he talked about how one of the skins in particular drew him into it immediately and caused him to relapse. Luckily he recognized what occurred and opted to remove himself from the game, but not only did he have people actually try to dismiss his real problem as not actually being a problem in his own thread, but others elsewhere have taken this stance that you have now. Unfortunately for you and them the numbers about people with actual gambling problems and addictive personalities in MMO player communities say a different story, so lets not refer to them as phantoms.
pkidawmbt - Couldn't agree more. I didn't care for WP's "phantom"-argument. Loot boxes shouldn't be a thing, especially in a game that is not rated 18+, because it is gambling.
Starwind87 of course not, but they also can't set up a pop up shop next to an AA meeting and claim they are not contributing to a problem. Fun strawman though.
You... literally just made a strawman, then tried to say I was strawmanning your argument. GW2 isn't a fucking gambling addiction support group. It's a video game. Some of their fans may have a gambling addictions. They're not actively going out and looking for people with gambling addictions. They're putting something that's quasi-gambling into their game, which may contain some players with gambling addiction problems. That's, again, like saying a company/store can't sell alcohol because some of their customers are alcoholics. They're not selling alcohol specifically to target alcoholics, they're just selling alcohol to anyone.
It not gambling, buy the entire 30 contracts pack and you get everything! And gambling is when your money can become nothing, this you get a skin every time!
Keep in mind that GW2 has marketed itself or can be seen as a casual MMO, at least in most areas of its gameplay. The demographic for GW2 is largely adults who play after a day's work who are very willing to pull out their credit card as that is a resource they have more readily available than free time. I think Anet realizes this completely and it's why we've seen outfits and minis be put on the gemstore over the years. These are the same people who will be buying these adoption contracts without concern for the practice, and who will be the "statistics" you mentioned that will be reflecting that people do not mind these as much as the more outspoken individuals on the internet. I also really like the connection you made with how levels of player distraction via content (expansions, living story, or lack thereof) directly relate to how the community reacts to Anet's decisions on certain things. The community tends to be far more explosive and outraged when there are lulls in content and be more accepting or have things go unnoticed when there isn't. This is sometimes implemented purposefully and is common practice in scenes outside of GW2 out in the "real world" and it's interesting that you picked up on that trend, albeit Anet doesn't really seem to make use of it in any malicious way or at all in their favor usually.
I aggree with you in that the reaction is quite exaggerated, and I'm not angry but disappointed. But I do think that the outrage is good. This is not a GW2 problem, it's a videogame industry problem. We need to charge against these practices, whether it's GW2, battlefront or call of duty. And the way we can achieve things in this industry as customers is with our wallets and specially bad press. That's what hurts them, that's where we hit them.
Very level headed analysis. I especially like your call to action of voting with your wallet. I completely agree that that's the most productive course of action.
The mount skin prices are steep and RNG sucks. I still don't feel obligated to buy them though. Remove the RNG or the time limit on the 30 pack. Drop some free skins into the world which can be earned. Controversy over. A good example of exploitative in game purchases? Look no further than Star Wars Battefront 2.
Back to the spider mount: Arachnophobia is a stupid reason to cut it. I don't fear spider in any way, but I still flinched the first time I had the Ilboga debuff on me and saw black spiders falling down and a crow picking on my char. There are many spiders already in the game, e.g. the dwarven dungeon, in the spider room, when you run into a net, more spiders spawn. An achachnophobic person would never be able to make it through that room. Meanwhile, huge and fuzzy spiders can look really cute and not so scary, more like a fuzzy mount with 8 instead of 4 legs.
I liked this video as soon as you said "I AM NOT PISSED OFF, OR REMOTELY ANGRY AT ANET for this 'skin adoption contract sale" I actually like the new skins for the mounts ... a little expensive ... well, A LOT expensive but most of the skins seem rather attractive in time, should Anet decide that it is better to drop the price, and keep selling the skins ...I can foresee buying some .... I'm just here to play the game, because I like the game not to get caught up in ANY arguments for or against ANYTHING concerning the mounts, or game content and in my opinion, the quickest way to the 'ignore list' for me at-least, is to flood the chat area with complaints about the mounts, or game content just play the game and have fun :) well ... that is the way I feel I thank you WP for putting out vids, I liked all the vids you put out concerning PoF I followed several tips, and finally have the Griffon so, tyvm there :) you're awesome, tyvm for the vids, and keep up the vid blogs see you in-game :D
I agree with the prospective solution. There's ONE skin I really want from the mount adoption, and only one mount I care about getting skins for, the jackal. If I'm ever on a different mount, it's only because I can't get to where I'm going by jackal. If I can pick and choose skins, I won't be getting useless raptor and griffon skins.
This is my main problem, I'm not THAT pissed off about it being 30 skins, my main problem is how ridiculous the skins look, Legendary Weapons are already pretty flashy but thats fine, they are very hard to get and they aren't THAT crazy, but these? These are ridiculous, especially considering these aren't weapons these are huge models, simple solution, add an option to toggle off "flashy" skins
You cant compare it to THIS i.redd.it/dyi2sq2cmmwz.jpg. Like seriously, whats wrong with you... You cant even compare it to goofy legendaries or infusion, do you have any clue how BIG a mount is?! Its like 3 character models competing to be the fucking SUN (in a variety of shitty colors)
this is my BIGGEST issue. idc if they're in the game. im not buying them because im not fking stupid. but those starry gryphon mount skins? omfg they are an eyesore. this game just became another asian MMO
Good commentary WP. I think to make the existence of the gem store seem less painful players should think of the funds that they spend there as an alternative to monthly fee based game business models. If we use the mounts skins as an example and took a fifteen dollar a month fee and spent that on gems to buy mount skin licenses, you could own all thirty in a bit more than a year. I like to think I am supporting the developers who do an amazing job on the creation of new skins. To me each new skin is like purchasing a small bit of art work to add to my personal account gallery. Fashion wars is just a method of showing my appreciation for that art work by carrying it on or under my characters! Your gold to gem point is a very valid thought for players who do not want to spend real cash. Kudos to the developers for great work on POF and their continuing design efforts.
i'm getting a mount adoption for gold every day-ish with the current gold to gem ratio of 100+-G to 400gems, so in a month i'll have all of em, the jackal being 2K is kind of over the top but whatever, i don't care about any of this i just want more content in PoF content cuz i'm farming fractals and old hots meta's for gold.. seems weird with a new expansion being out, either way i hope a lot of dumbasses throw their credit card at these mount skins even though they cry on forums cuz arenanet will have more money to make more content, scam away anet!
You make some great points, and brought up some things I hadn't considered. I am more annoyed about this than you are, but also it's worth pointing out that 2017 is the year of Lootbox Backlash. With what is going on in other games, this is a trend. That is part of why the player base is more critical than they would have been at launch.
GW2's reward structure overall has driven me away from the game. Why does everything have to be on the gem store? Glider skins, outfits, and now mounts? I have thousands of hours in GW1, several thousand hours in GW2, and consider myself a hardcore fan. I want to love the game, but I'm just sick of this kind of crap. RNG mount skins are the biggest offender yet. I won't be logging in again until living world. I have no (rewarding) goals to work towards.
because the game is free, and money has to be earned SOMEHOW. would you really, truly, genuinely, want GW2 to be $15/month sub fee, and no gemstore? cuz i wouldnt!
This is standard practice for f2p/b2p games, some people play for free so others have to pay for overpriced skins in the gemstore to keep the lights on at Arenanet.
That's everyone's excuse, and they're getting away with putting the only remaining "endgame" progression into their microtransaction system. Fashion is really all the game has beyond raids and fractals (which, I might add, are minuscule in scale compared to other MMOs).
I think this is a very professional representation of a (probably) unpopular opinion. I agree with this and I think everyone that's upset should watch this.
Yeah I could careless about this implementation. ArenaNet has given so much since release. This is just another way of acquiring extra revenue. I dont mind this at all. These are just cosmetics. If you're salty about these mount skins, don't buy it then.
I'm just worried that shitty anti-consumer practices like this will turn people away from the game, and that in turn will make everyone's experience worse.
My main problem is simple, HOW INSANE THESE THINGS ARE, I mean have you seen these mounts? I don't want a fucking sun flying on my screen every 30 seconds, there should be an option to turn off mount particle effects, that would solve my main problem
vary roung black lion cheat are gambling big time all thay did here was make sure you only get mounts at lest be happy this is not in black lion chest just think of that rng
ive looked forward to your non-biased approach. Becuase there will be people on both sides, expecting you to be mad or the other half wanted you be a fanboy. I honestly dont care either, granted thegamblign aspect is a bit bad but hey im ok. Plenty of stuff to still do in the game. may even get the odd moutn with gold. I know youve put effort into this...but i hate to say it..but im kind of bored of this argument. Sitting back....while playing the game! (overshadowed some great changes and a really good balance) intrigued how peopel can dislike this video already
It took about sixty seconds for those to appear. Rather than about the content of my discussion, they might not like that I'm making a video on it all, which I can understand.
further comments on reddit. Honestly...i just wanna play the game now and not have to deal with this. I really enjoyed the patch and have seen a number of people in PoF maps doing bounties. Some even full maps! I was taking PoF slow and theyve thrown in halloween and all sorts to keep me busy. The sky is not falling, theres plenty of stuff to get on with.
Hmmm...except for the fact that PoF maps are practically empty at this point and the main problem alot of people, myself included have, my beef isn't with the way it was implemented, I think its shoddy but fine I can ignore it, what I can't ignore is how insanely "flashy" these skins are, most of them don't feel like they should belong in GW2 and I think it would be fair to have an option to simply, turn them off if we don't want to see them
One thing people haven't brought up is since its RNG we will have a variety of mounts in the game. I think we can all agree that we all kind of like a handful of mounts and if we could just straight out buy those everybody would have the same Mount. This way, not saying it's right, but forces people to use other mounts and giving us a variety.
As someone who's also been playing this series for over a decade, I really appreciate your wisened opinions based on what we've already seen happen in the past. I don't nearly have as much stake in guild wars 2 as I did a few years ago, but it's definitely easy to see patterns in community reactions and this same "song and dance" whenever there is a rally to get everyone in an uproar. I really liked your approach in this video and voting with your wallet, as you said, is probably the most reasonable response to this situation.
Hi wp! Thank you for your fantastic video. You´r video helped me to better understand how my feelings have gotten in the way of a respectful discussion about this games future. I understand now that being angry does nothing for the game and only hurt it in the long run. Thank you for being you and helping the community to be better, thank you.
I really like your video and how you approached this problem. I must say that I realize I've overreacted a tad bit because I assumed the adoption contracts were time gated the same as the discounted one for 9600 gems. That said, I am still against the system for various reasons. Personally, I only ever use the doggo and the birdie, so right of the bat there's only 2/5th I would consider paying gems for. Out of those I only liked a few skins so it's down to about 4/30 skins, which puts my odds to a really bad place. As I've said elsewhere, the only way you don't lose by gambling on this (as one often repeated rebuttal was "but you don't get duplicates, so you don't lose!", is if you like most or all of the skins and use most or all of the mounts equally, which realistically speaking won't be the case for anyone. I've seen so much buyer's remorse going on with people rolling 3 skimmer skins and not getting the only skin for the skimmer they liked or rolling 2 raptors and 4 bunnies but no griffon, which was the only mount they actually use. I've also seen people proudly showing off their 30 mounts while poorer players who either live in countries where getting money to buy the gems is more or less impossible or who work a lot and don't have time to farm 24/7 were so upset and envious that they felt they shouldn't go online because seemingly half the player base was running around on these fancy mounts with their cool skins and they'd never get one. I feel there's a number of ways they could've handled this better: With RNG: Make smaller bundles. Either make the set specific bundle (the fire one, the starry one, etc.) OR make a mount specific bundle where you have a 1/5 chance to either get the skin you like or a skin for a mount you want. Without RNG: Make the bundles separate, like the Halloween one. Had they made a separate starry set, firey set, stripey set, I would have AT LEAST gotten two (priced at 2k gems this would've made me pay 4k at the very least right there right then). Make the mounts available individually and price them higher. I would've gladly payed up to 1k gems for a guaranteed skin for a specific mount. I also want to mention the reforged warhound and why I found their pricing problematic: Many that were thrown off by the fact that our odds might be reaaaally bad if we wanted only a few of the 30 skins were looking for a guaranteed skin. That being the warhound. Why do I really loathe them putting it there? Because with 2k gems it's very expensive, but the doggo is probably the most popular mount as it looks cool, is very useful and is the one you still can boast without having the griffon - in that Anet was very smart putting that one up. I'm not really mad about the 2k gem price tag because they went further than just the skin appearance (animation plus it's dyeable) and though I think a price tag around 1.5k or 1.6k would've been more realistic, I don't actually find it too preposterous to ask for that. What I did mind is that, as mentioned, it made people who don't like to gamble buy that instead without even thinking about the price tag too much (I'm actually still considering buying it as I write this). So my reaction to all this has been to not buy any of the adoption contracts because I just don't endorse this kind of RNG. I already don't really like the BLC keys because I only ever roll crap out of those, but every now and then I will invest in those and at least get a scrap out of it. And I've made my peace with that since you can get the keys through the weekly key farm. And there's people who enjoy the thrill of that so there's that too. But I think the gem store didn't need any more RNG based items. Even so, it's just the gross amount of 30 mount skins that kinda angered me. Had they made smaller bundles, I might've even invested in some of them because I'd know there's only so much money I have to spend to get the skin I like for the mount I use even if I'm rolling the dice. I for sure would've invested had I been able to pick either a set or an individual skin. It just really felt like Anet testing the waters on how much they can push the loot box system on us and though the backlash has been a bit extreme in places, I do hope it makes them realize that not putting up a system like that would've been more lucrative. Refusing to buy anything in the gem store won't help, nor is the threat of not buying the next expac, I readily agree with that. I think the only way they're going to stop with this if people don't cave into the "Oh, I might get a nice skin after all"-gamble and don't buy contracts or if ultimately more will buy the warhound than the mount tickets. If their griffon version of the warhound looks remotely as cool, I don't have an issue paying the 2k gems. TL:DR, if enough don't buy, we might have a chance that the next releases won't be loot box-y. Warhound is ok-ish priced since they added more than just a skin (animation, that is also dyeable to boot). Threatening isn't going to accomplish much, just don't buy what you know you won't likely get.
Excellent video WP! I really appreciate the tone that you took and the honesty in telling us that you're just kind of over getting upset about the store cuz you're right you could have bandwagoned with the rest of them and been on the front page of the subreddit but I'm glad that you decided to keep it informative and I appreciate that Integrity thank you
You definitely got my soft spot at 36:01 I consider my self a pretty empathetic person, and when you gave us ArenaNets Theoretical point of view, you hade like 150% of my attention I definitely don't want to see GW2 go anywhere as this is my favorite game even if I come and go... I just subed Idk why
I've been playing since the first Beta Weekend. I have 10 level 80 characters. I haven't paid 1 dime for gems. I don't ever plan on it either. Every gem I have I got through exchanging gold. As far as I'm concerned, they can do whatever they want with the gem store. I have better things to do that berate their morality. WP, I've been watching your videos since the Zephyrites first showed up. Your enthusiasm, whether pleased or not, is always infectious. Keep up the great work.
49:20, that's the thing that I was thinking. I'm listening to the whole thing as we speak and this is agreat video. You're not choosing a side but explaining motives from both sides. Quite a lengthy one but very enjoyable to listen to! Also, I've had a couple of internships and worked at several companies now and I know it's possible that not everyone is on the same line. Marketing thinks about reaching the people and turning that into profit, communications/community management thinks about pleasing the customer, concepting (creative minds) do not want their ideas to be limited by the two previously mentioned parties. It's hard to please everyone inside the company and it's even harder to please your customers. At the end of the day, with any company, it's about that big plus at the end of month/year. If I see that many people buying them anyway, then I would say it was a bold but smart move. I don't like the idea at all but they must've made a lot of money out of this update. Sorry for any grammatical issues. Wrote this in a hurry. Guess my dinner will be burnt!
Thanks for taking the time to make this WP and fair play for putting your opinion out there when you know it might run partly contrary to the outrage at the moment, big respect. I do take slight issue with the point you make around the 35 min mark about people looking at the worst case scenario. Sure, the reality is that most people would get that one skin they desire most before going through all other rolls BUT the point is the chance of you getting the skin you want is a flat 1 in 30 chance at the initial outset, the same chance for every player (before they start the gamble and improve their odds by removing one from the pool). I'm sure I'll have some other thoughts when I've finished the rest of the video but wanted to comment on that before I forgot :P (DAMN YOUR LONG VIDEOS EVEN THOUGH I LOVE THEM)
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.83[1/2] เปิดแคมป์หลอนต้อนรับ 2 ตัวพ่อแห่งวงการผี!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2uPuHYHgwiI/mqdefault.jpg)
Or SkinGate. Probably more descriptive. More video qualities will process in the coming minutes, I actually delayed the release of this by well over an hour waiting for YT to get it's stuff together and trigger something higher than 360p, but enough waiting is enough! I started this script at 8am, and it's now 11:30pm and I want bed, lol. I'll watch the comments for bit first, though.
Go to bed man, you deserve it
Funny thing, two friends today mentioned WP not commenting, and saying maybe he'd just opt out of talking about it. My thought, he is passionate about Anet and will make so e commentary, expect something big.
its as allways dogs that bark dont bite. and if one starts the whole neigbourhood will ;)
why r u calling it micro transactions...look at the damn prices!? 2k for a single skin...9k for full pack, and 400 for one...and RNG crap! Its everything else but a micro transaction!?
well Outfits/Gliders are on 700gems without RNG. The price of 400 for 1 License is Ok and it would be better sold, with no outcry if we atleast had the chance to pick what mount i get the roll on.
Or pay 700 gems for one i completly choose.
Yeah I want a specific thing for my my money, a straight up honest deal, why is that such a difficult concept nowadays
Yeah, imagine the customer could do that. The seller would have to give us an agreeed upon item and then we would give them an envelope randomly pulled from a stack of envelopes with different amounts of money...
I personally blame the 2000 gem forged skin on the guy that made the dragons watch gang skins and tagged them at 2000+ gems. I swear the marketing team saw it as indication that we would be willing to pay that.
I touch on this a little in the video. I don't know if I would squarely "blame" those videos, but I think the community on the whole was definitely signalling something that wasn't going to go well in the end.
WoodenPotatoes ok yeah blame is probably less at the video themselves
WoodenPotatoes and just now got to that section of the video. That's what I get for commenting early while watching huh
i know i will get down voted to hell but the 2000 gem mount isnt a big suprise. Why ? for exaple go to this blizzard site eu.shop.battle.net/en-gb/family/world-of-warcraft they are selling mounts we unique skins for arround 25$ that same as 2000 gems. And this mount is diffrent from the other it has new animations and new sound effects. I would totally ok when it would cost 1000 gems and the normal skisn would cost 600-700 gems
Gulga123 Yeah, they messed up making the Halloween mounts so cheap.
The mount skin system doesn't offend me nearly as much as your taste in fashion or lack there of.
everyone has their own taste.
I think to discuss this topic without addressing the emergence of loot boxes as a significant issue in the industry does a disservice to the discussion. This topic has erupted across the industry, particularly in the last month or two. That's why this topic has become as big as it has. It's not an overreaction by Guild Wars 2's player base, it's a continuation of an ongoing issue across the industry as a whole. It doesn't matter how it was implemented, it was going to result in a reaction.
I think you're right. I do touch on this, and I would have gone further but I was hesitant as I'm not sure how interested my audience would be. I cut out a whole section about GoG and being consumer friendly, among other things. A bit weak, probably, given the limits of my own understanding.
Fair enough. It felt like you started to go there but stopped. I just think that's a major part of the issue right now and isolating it to the GW2 player base feels like it's glossing over the root of the problem. Honestly, I think they could have dealt with minimal damage if they had just released a limited one time purchase that allowed you to select one of the 30 skins for 400 gems. Then everyone can get one of the 30 skins they really wanted before having to gamble and most people would have probably been satisfied with that.
it is an over react. Believe it or not
It isn't tbh. Why implement it like this? Why even risk it? It's like speeding through a police patrol that is investigating pile-up accident due to speeding, and expecting not to get caught. Guild Wars 2 is already in a low position, not many are satisfied with PoF (and don't go about denying that, just look at the significant amount of forum posts and the news about PoF being lackluster), and this is just icing on a stale cake. Anet has had a history of failing to implement proper rewards systems. Shoving a random roll lootbox into the players' face is a disservice. And what's with 2,000 gems being the only way to receive a guaranteed mount skin? 25$ for a single guaranteed mount skin, that's price of the expansion mind you. That's ridiculous.
Jesus WP you blow me away with your level headed mentality, you're honestly one of the best parts about the community, so no matter what shit comes your way, stay strong and wholesome like you always do. with love.
Zoheir Leub That's what I thought too till I saw him walk away from downed players in this video after the boss fight in Augury Rock. Kinda the unspoken common courtesy of gw2
3 glider skins are earnable in game. The ones tied to the legendary backpacks.
is that including the AP ones? like the holographic dragon wings
And there is also the outfits. You can get one from halloween for candy corn cob
yeah maybe if ANET have made the good looking mount skin craftable but cost you 1k+ gold each there will be less people complaining. LOL
Yes, but all three were added way after the gliders were released and there were a lot of gem store skins before them. Same goes for the halloween outfit too. Just because we didn't get any of the mount skins for free in one and half months after the release of PoF, doesn't mean that we can definitively say that there won't be any non-gemstore skin.
that backpack does not have a glider.
I don't always agree with your take on things, but I do respect your opinions when my own differ. This video, however, is spot on. I'm so glad you didn't add to the hyperbolic vitriol, but DID find the RNG repugnant. I really feel like all they had to do was offer each skin for 400 gems without RNG and everything would have been fine.
The voice of reason emerging from the sea of salt!
Ty man!
On an logical level, when have you gone to a pound, asked to adopt a dog, then made to spin a wheel to see which of the dogs you get, without getting a say in which one you actually want.
That's messed up, I believe this system was in there because of ArenaNet's lack of confidence in their design of these mount skins. Thinking that everyone is just going to go for the "good looking' mount skin in their opinion which made them implement this loot box-ish system
I have an argument about all this "I'll uninstall unless you listen to me" nonsense. I live in Bosnia, it's a third world country, I'm unemployed, I got the base/vanilla game on a 50% discount some four years ago, I got HoT standard edition and PoF standard edition and both of them pre-purchased, I finished a collection for a precursor, I got two precursors drop for me, I got nine character slots, I got three glider skins and I got two outfits - NEVER have I, or will I complain about cosmetic items in the game. It's all earn-able by getting more gold. Noone MAKES you buy all the items and skins and outfits, nor does it impede your ability to progress the game if you don't have them. If they were selling elite specs or ascended or legendary items for "premium" currency, and for premium currency ONLY - then I would have a problem with that, but now, asking for money or play time to grind the money to get cosmetic items (even tho they are RNG), should not bother anyone. Just play, enjoy and if you can buy an adoption licence if you want one. If you don't care about how your mounts look like: don't. Easy as that. I love GW2 for it's lore and gameplay, not for how cool, or wacky my character looks. But that's just my humble opinion...
Agreed. Pozdrav iz hrvatske
The voice of reason among the chaos, appriciate your way of looking at things.
I am vehemently opposed to any game leaning toward purchase options that do not give us choice. I'm not angry about it, I'll simply vote with my money in the sense of refusing to give even a single gem to this system.
Sadly marketing research has shown repeatedly that a few people who love slot-machine style returns will earn more money for a company than a variety of purchases from normal players, and many companies opt for the short-sighted choice of itemizing toward those players despite the fact that it is terrible for the long term health of a game.
That said, NCSoft has a lot of leverage over ANet due to low overall profit from the franchise compared to what the hype made them expect (WoW killer comments were discouraged by ANet even then, but investors are only interested in big wins, not reasonable returns.), and the content drought time period REALLY hurt.
The thing I am more upset about here is the fact that we're getting this huge negative press so soon after PoF launch and the injury to the game's health that will result.
Thanks WP. An hour video of calm collected pros and cons is appreciated. Especially the things I havent heard or thought of.
Thank you for being the most level-headed, logical, common sensed, and wise person during this time of hysteria within the guild wars 2 community. I hope your words can be the water to turn the flames into embers, to keep the fire smoldering but not blazing. Keep up the fantastic work.
WP, I genuinely appreciate your level headed thought process and discussion and thank you for actually holding your own stance. You're a credit to the community.
This video is part of the reason I enjoy watching you WP, you manage to stick to your opinions no matter how much people may disagree. Your integrity and high quality production is what keeps me watching even if I don't agree! You managed to change my mind on this and I'm glad you did!
Moorland You are so easily swayed. He's not neutral at all, and yet he doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds him i mean if this were a dog or an employee i'd say he's a success. Hopefully i didn't change your mind about him, only reason i like his content is because he's a lore nerd and i happen to like lore.
I'm glad you made this video, because I had been almost contemplating quitting recently. I wasn't mad, I was just so disappointed that it kept feeding into itself. So thanks for being reasonable and helping me put all of my thoughts in order.
To that end I really wish they would implement a three-tiered structure for mount sales.
1. 1600-2000 gems for five packs of themed mounts with special effects. Could be five flame mounts or Shadow mounts or just 5 jackals.
2. 2000 or so for in-depth mounts with new models and special animations.
3. 3 to 400 gem boxes for the simpler mount skins that are more muted in flavor. They may not be flashy, but they're also inexpensive and you get a mount every time.
Watched this whole video at 2x speed took 30 minutes, I now have 30 minutes to watch more WP videos. You're extremely easy to understand even at 2x speed, so props to you!
But it's only been live 24 minutes. And 19 at the time of your comment. EXPOSED!
Huge respect, 100% agreed. Was waiting for what you had to say and it didn't disappoint.
Wow ! One hour, eh ?
OK. I'm ready.
You said its a good feeling when people agree with you and I have to say, its a great feeling to hear you echo my own sentiments. Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
This whole thing can be summed up in 3 memes. Players: "Shut up and take my money", Anet: "Challenge accepted", Players: "This isn't how this works at all".
I know I'm late to the party, but thank you for being the voice of reason, once again!
I was in the disappointed category...partly to my own fault. You mention the "shut up and take my money" crowd...well I was in that. But that was with the expectation they would release mount skins individually...for probably around 800 gems. I bought the ultimate version of the expansion entirely with the purpose of saving the gems for the inevitable mount skins. Then they added the halloween mount bundle and I was of the mindset "Holy shit...5 mount skins for 1600 gems...if this is the trend I am so in!"
But then expectation met reality when they released the adoption licenses...the timing of which made it all the more jarring because of the broad trend in AAA games recently with lootboxes and gambling mechanics. Literally not even 48 hours prior three of us (Myself and two mates) were talking again about the Activision patents and the impact lootboxes had on Middle Earth: Shadow of War as we ran the Labyrinth. And it just hit us as all that sewage driving us to play GW2 more because we didn't want to play games that had it...had run into GW2 now. And you're right the BLTC has always been there but we all pretty much ignore it...we figured out long ago it would be easier to just buy whatever thing we want from the trading post. Except of course the new stuff like the backpack/gliders or the Balth outfit...which should have been a red flag but again went over our heads because we tend to ignore the existence of black lion chests.
Like I said I stockpiled gems...I was waiting to pay double what they want for a license for an individual mount and still am. Or even more...if I am truly blown away by a particular skin (Hint: Not the flaming metal cyclops ram). But I want to buy a product...not a dice roll. Had there been no RNG factor...and had it not come at the time it did with all the other controversies in the broader gaming scene...I would have had nothing to complain about and I doubt most would have either.
Agree so much with this. More or less summarizes my feelings on the subject. Anet primed us to buy individual mount skins with the introduction of individually sold glider skins... then went another route. Not to mention RNG is getting bad press lately. I can't imagine why you'd stick your hand in that wasp's nest. Hope it doesn't have to do with profit desperation. :/
This is why I still watch your videos: You reason clearly! I stopped playing years ago and couldn't care less about mount skins, but I still enjoy your discussions because they are well reasoned and well presented. Which game they happen to concern is not the important part for me. Keep it up!
I feel most every point you touched on was valid. You discussed nearly every possible thought process the community may have had and gave many people reason to rethink their exaggerated backlash. You make it difficult for me to add anything to the discussion because you mention nearly every possible scenario. For example, at 45:30 you say you believe this instance of backlash will have an effect although you're unsure of how small or large it may be. Then, at 46:30 you question whether community has the ammunition to make an effect at all. Now, I doubt whether my opinion is worth sharing, but I'll try to add to the discussion.
While I generally do agree that this is overblown, part of me disagrees. This is my first comment regarding the situation, so I think it's important to establish that I'm not trying to defend my own actions. It's a no brainer that the threats are useless and ridiculously uncivil.
I noticed a good portion of your argument is that you don't feel the backlash will have much of an effect, while in most cases I would agree, this seems to be a somewhat different situation. It appears the majority of the population is in disagreement, so the press outside of the normal GW2 circle has gotten hold of this story. This is where ArenaNet becomes worried as events like this aren't exactly common. Now, Anet has to find the risk vs reward balance as the people in charge of the gem store expected a certain amount of revenue gain from this as they don't release gem store items daily. This is in order to not distract from previously released items and maximize profits. Their risk involved people voting with their wallets, but now it battles possible future box sales as well. My thoughts may become moot when referring to your point at 45:50 stating it may not be our place to discuss or care about sales as consumers. In addition, you also said we likely don't have the qualifications to determine what is profitable or expected, which is completely true in my case, but I'll continue.
Voting with your wallet sounds like a good idea, and I agree usually is, but I believe this instance is unique. The majority seems upset with the implementation and they want immediate action. Not only might Anet misinterpret why people aren't buying the skins ("We're having trouble selling the adoption contracts, maybe the skins we included aren't cool enough"), but it takes time to see results when your intentions are interpreted correctly. I don't believe you can expect the mob mentality to ever change, as nice as the thought may be. People want results now and will have their voices heard by numerous news sources if not ArenaNet.
In conclusion, I have a large problem with the gem store as you do. We may or may not share exact reasoning as to why, but I'll share part of mine. I believe the gem store should have had a different idea than selling, cosmetics, what a large portion of player base considers endgame. For example, other games may consider endgame to be having the best stats. How would you feel simply being able to buy the best staff from the gem store? I think it shares the same ideology as the many free FPS games where you can just buy the best guns or mobile games that play themselves for a price. I don't believe that's fair to consumers. If they wanted the game to be about cosmetics they should have made the gem store sell convenience services and other items we haven't had to consider existing because our current gem store mostly sells cosmetics. If they wanted the game to be about stats, they should have made the gem store sell cosmetics. To me, it's as if they're competing against their own game right now. Include nice skins in the game or in the gem store? Yes, you can argue there's other things in GW2 to consider as endgame, but I think many can agree a lot of people think cosmetics are the only endgame.
That last paragraph may have gone a little off topic or been incoherent, but I think it's somewhat related. And the rest may have not added anything to the discussion, but I wanted to voice my opinion.
First five minutes and he's already said what I've been trying to say. THANK YOU!
Ugh, I made so many posts sorry everyone, I'll sum up my thoughts here,
1. Do I think that its a shoddy system? Yes, the RNG implementation is a terrible idea and the prices are on the steep side,
2. Do I think the backlash is overblown? Yes, however I don't think you give the "broader gaming" thing enough credit, this isn't necessarily coming from GW2 entirely, people are just SICK of being nickel and dimed all over the gaming industry, I think its possible that alot of the backlash is just frustration from other games bleeding over
3. What's my beef? THE SKINS THEMSELVES, holy hell, look at these things, Legendary Weapons can be a bit annoying but these? No, makes me almost glad that the PoF maps are kind of empty right now, I would go blind staring at Sun Griffins, seriously! This is one of those things that needs to have an option "Turn off Particle effects for other players mounts"
The styling isn't my problem, GW2 has always had silly or out of place skins, my issue is too many lights and particle effects interfering with whats going on
1 hour long video...And i thought Deroir made a long one...Man you are productive...
Thanks for being honest WP! One way that could remedy this is for example add a mount skin contract at the end of a pvp/wvw reward track. When you first beat PoF. Ect. Very rarely, but at least gives you a way to farm, and maybe spend the rest on gems with the gold you make on the way/pull out credit card.
That seems quite unrealistic. If we get some cool mounts behind some legendary items that you can get in game, which I hope they do, then I would be quite glad already. As long as they look as cool as that Jackal mount.
Arenanet needs the money for the future, so i dont see any reason for them to add the skins in game. The mount skins are actually very cheap, the only problem here is the rng.
Yes. I get it. Companies need money. Surprising! Your reasoning doesn't make sense in the context of 30 new skins being saved for this gem store item. Also, Rng isn't a problem if done right. But my sense of "right" may be different then yours or Bob's next door. Reddit on mounts sounds like a couple people rolled for one skin and were instantly pissed when they didn't win a 1/30. Sorry but that is gambling, you can lose. Fun fact. If you will get mad over losing, don't play the game maybe?
"What you say is unrealistic because it didn't happen". Ahh no? Why is this unrealistic? I was simply giving some solutions to start the ball rolling. I was looking at a system that worked for Overwatch, where you can buy loot skins but also pull out the credit card. This seems like a viable solution, at least at the very least on paper.
actually, having a legendary mount skin that'd be incorporated as a legendary could work maybe? It's a bit similar as what they did to get the griffonmount I guess? But I think (an easier option for a-net) if they make a contract per mount-group and then a contract that includes all groups, but at a slightly lower price (keep this at 400 gems and a mount-group contract at like idk 500?) That could take out a lot of the toxicity already.
especially since gems are fairly easy to get with gold anyway...
Thanks for the video. And your honesty, it is much easier for someone like me who is returning after 1.5+ years of being away to understand what's going on and make my own view about it.
It isn't a charged reaction from me. It was disappointment... Simple sad disappointment... Fashion Wars 2 man... Skins do matter in this game. And I shouldn't have to pay for 30 skin just to get 1 that I want.
To have the only way of avoiding gambling with my money be to pay for all the skins is not ok man. Give us a way to buy individual skins, make it more expensive but don't require us to buy all of them to get around it.
Sorry WP, I know you wanted me to watch the whole video before commenting on this but this is simply my feeling about it and wanted to show that they are not as rage-filled as you mentioned in the beginning of the video. They are measured and simply a response to a company that sells a product to me. Now that I got this out of my head I will go ahead and listen to your feelings on the issue.
And I'm back, after watching the video, to say that I agree with you. I am very glad that you are not waving it away, saying that it isn't bad for the customers. Besides that I think almost all of your arguments are valid and very well put. As I said in my comment I wasn't angry, I was disappointed and this seems to be what you felt aswell if I read you correctly.
Finally I would like to say that I will vote with my wallet. I have never bought anything in GW2 with real world money that was RNG based and won't start now. I get the irony of me announcing that here in a comment, I do, but let me balance that out then with me hopefully telling people to please do the same. I really would hope people try to avoid Loot Boxes in not only GW2 but in gaming in general. It is incredibly bad game design in almost all cases and a quite scummy buisness practice too. Don't let this become a new standard in the industry!
I've bought stuff from the gem store but I have never spent a cent on keys and I agree I won't be spending any on this.
You guys see that frostforge mount? Well get ready to pay that price for each cool-looking mount you want cus the money train has just arrived at the station baby.
I agree - hell, I'd be happy to collect them, but I want to be choosy at least at first.
Made it to the end. I am a boss now WP said it himself =) But in all seriousness I really appreciate your honnest and level-headed approach to this topic. its the sole reason this 3944 second monstrosity of an video is not only barable but also interesting and, above all else, actually constructive in terms of the overall discussion.
One last thing though: i am watching your stuff since 2011.
I think i have seen the majority of your content on gw2 and all the conntent on gw1.
Thus, contrary to what you said in your disclaimber, this realistic aproach WAS exactly what i expect of you ;)
keep up the good work mate!!!
There is a part of the community you almost never touch on and that's roleplayers - people who use the game and the lore as a spring board for some of their own stories and ideas. Role playing creates context and value for skins where the game does not. But then, that seems to emphasize your point further - players are having to make their own stories to get a sense of satisfaction that the game itself can't provide.
Finally a unique point. I bought some of the minion unbreakable tools and a spectral glider for my necro. It makes my white-washed, cultureless necro feel something like the old days. Still could use more light leather armor. Why hasn't Eve's outfit been released yet? It was sexy in the first game and something I wanted back then too.
Aren't roleplayers in a pretty bad spot with GW2 anyways? Just considering the lack of emotes.
As a roleplayer I can maybe help answer this question. The game lacks a lot of basic quality of life features geared towards roleplayers that a lot of other MMOs have (Emotes diversity, sit-able chairs, player homes, a decoration system that allows fine adjustment, etc.)...... but those features are not the primary thing that draws me or many other players to the game.
The primary draws for me and most of the roleplayers in this community has been the detailed lore and well fleshed out world as well as unique setting that Guild Wars takes place in. It may not have the best STORY ever, but the world itself is carefully crafted and offers a lot that other MMOs couldn't even dream of touching.
On top of that, a lot of roleplayers who play in an MMO aren't here to just RP... I know that comes as a shock to some, but we can get our RP fix on forums or chat services without ever entering a game. The game itself has to bring something to the table too, whether it be the absolutely amazing environments, the diverse racial choices, the incredible lore potential, or just the fun and active game-play style. I love Guild Wars. I love the setting. I love the races. Not being terribly RP friendly isn't enough to detract from just everything else that the game has to offer. (Also, I would argue that RPers play fashion wars harder than any other group of people in this game)
Roleplayers make their own emotes. What hurt more was the inability to interact with furniture properly! What also hurt was megaservers and the increase in emote range, so you risk being trolled pretty hard when you emote in open world. Some role players have resorted to playing in party or squad chat, or retreated to guild halls but there definitely has been a decline in the amount of role players.
The point about sittable chairs/furnature has already been made, but I will add to this: Roleplayers in general feel like Arenanet doesn't care for them, or worse, doesn't want them doing what they're doing. This sounds hyperbolic, probably doomsay-ey, but it's true.
You know those areas in the game that you could get to through void jumping? RPers used that, and with PoF void jumping has (For the most part) stopped functioning. Add to that various story instance areas that now you can't glide too, or use mounts to get into, and RPers feel like areas they COULD RP in now are unreachable.
This is unfair, sure. But considering the lack of actual indoor areas in this game, and some important areas that are unreachable outside of instances (Durmand priory's inner area, and library are big ones, for example.) Or somehow breaking into them, the removal of ways to reach them makes people feel like some of the few things we had got taken away.
22:30 there were 3 gliders earnt from the legendary backpieces. And i guess the wool one can be earnt from that wintersday quest (but the chest to earn it was gemstore right?).
Legendary mounts that are earnable in game would be very cool!
Regardless of backlash from previous videos, there are times where one should become emotionally charged and pick a side. This was one of those. I understand where you're coming from, and that you do try to see both sides of the equation; however, Arena Net has shown their hand, and that they're no longer making reasonable decisions when it comes to their regular purchasers. It started with the waypoint unlock package, and has continued from there. I realize it's just numbers and business to some at the company, but I can't remain supportive of a channel that won't pick the side of the customer...at the very least in the case where the consumer is absolutely justified in their reaction.
Game on, and best of luck!
Glad to hear another voice of logic and reason. I hadn't thought of the damage that the other ranting could do to the overall view of the game from outside, but you are correct that it would likely be really damaging.
What if u could buy mount adoption contract from the heart vendors u originally got ur mount from,for example vendor from raptor ranch will only sell adoption contract for raptor and they r sold for 400 gem or maybe a little higher for each,that way people wont end up like 10 skimmer and 0 other skins,rng will still exist,gems will still sell,people with huge amount of money will still buy all 30.but this way the average player can atleast get 1 skin for each mount
I actually only stayed for 20 mins of video because I have work,so dont know if u talked about it
Great video as always. I'm glad you explained your reasoning behind yours thoughts and were honest. It means a lot, and it's probably one of the reasons why I enjoy all of your videos too. Thank you.
TL;DW It’s not one of those shortenable videos... you’ve gotta watch the whole thing.
Well tbh it is kinda shortenable. The conclusion right at the end is likely a reasonable tl;dw
WoodenPotatoes Could be... I haven’t gotten that far yet... I just posted that because you said not to post a TL;DW at the beginning 🤣
Eh, it’s kinda shortenable... I think just the conclusion probably is the best summary, but it wouldn’t be a particularly good, IMHO. You’re right when you said at the beginning that it’s a complex topic. Some things just take a while to work through.
Thanks for being the voice of reason. Great video, WP! Especially the second part.
What annoys/frustrates me the most is the reasoning. Ever single person you see in POF has purchased it, that's bound to have covered the development costs of the DLC ten fold. So why didn't they just make then all purchasable as single things for 400-1200 gems?
I'm very confused about why they did this. The amount of people that are outraged about the RNG element who would have happily of payed for one or more skins if they had been individually purchasable, are there purchases really outweighed by people who purchase the RNG based system skins? I'd love to see the numbers on that.
Lets say that 1 in 4 people would purchase a mount skin or two in the system wasn't RNG based (Individually purchasable) But now lets say that only 1 in 50 people buy one or potentially 30 of these RNG ticket things. What would be more profitable? I'd like to hope it the more consumer friendly purchase, but I feel like it's the RNG system. oh well, ty for reading ; )
As i was watching this video i decided to have a look at the mount skins and noticed that i can pick from a small selection. Decided this was the best option and as i was going through with it you said about having a more expensive option for picking a mount. Which is exactly what i had done. So thanks for the video and the idea :)
I want to mention that unless you are a TP Baron you wont have remotely close to the amount of gold necessary for an RNG-based purchase like this, it takes me a good 3-8 weeks to earn 100 gold depending on how much I play and this system is only available for 7 days. So unless you already have a massive amount of gold sitting on your account Gold to Gems isn't a viable option, especially considering that due to the release of this gem store update the price for 400 gems is almost 150 gold
Only the bundle is time limited, the individual licenses will still be available after the package is gone.
yea I confirmed that when I logged in for my daily today
thesuminer 100 gold for 3-8 weeks of playing?!! Jesus christ man, what do you do in game?!! i don't mean to dismiss your comment but this is a lot more interesting.
I think avg is 6-12g a few hours of playing. If you play a couple hours a day that's at least 100g in 2 weeks. On the weekends when I play 5 hours I easily hit high gold returns from just walking around and doing events. :/ Not sure why your income is suffering but that's odd
Nice to hear a level-headed viewpoint on this topic, mad respect. 👍
And while I am probably a lot more disappointed than you, I agreed from hour 1 of the patch, before the community exploded, before any of this, that I'd be voting with my gems on the issue.
I don't pay for RNG, it's as simple as that. And I'm looking forward to buying mount skins.
NC soft has been pushing for more aggressive microtransactions for years. Look at their other products and then check back at guild wars. Its amazing Anet has managed to endure so much of it without doing anything this drastic before.
I like your way of seeing both sides and also not falling into the trap of "I'm trying to have a point, therefore I will ignore everything that goes against my agenda". Nice video!
The propotion of the outrage for me just underlines how the playerbase cares about gw2 and how they are afraid that it will end up like EA/Activision. When EA/Activision pull something with microtransaction nobody is dissapointed, because they have come to learn that this companies are like that. On the otherside players have come to love gw2 for the consumer friendly approach and because of locking off mountskins behind RNG people are angry and dissapointed. Why not just have MountSkins on the gemstore induvidually like you said at the end of your video? They should have done what they did with gliders when HoT came out and not push the boundries. Sure they can keep the license thing with reduced price but also have the option to buy the desired skins directly without a RNG lock in front of it.
Thank you very much for this video! It is great that you, as one of the public figures in the community, are able to remain calm and have a differentiated opinion - regardless of whether people agree or disagree, I hope people respect that.
I am confused why this is a huge thing. GW2 is awesome because we don't have to pay a sub fee each month to play it. But it is a business that employs people, has to pay for buildings and equipment and health insurance and so they have to make money. The gem store is a necessary component of that. Whether you love it or hate it or are ambivalent to it, that is a fact. Those who are upset have to then ask themselves are you willing to pay each month to play the game you love to lose the hated gem store and items that come up? When I saw the prices and found out about the RNG my first thought was cool. I can slowly earn in game money and convert it to gems and try my luck when I have some extra in game cash, or maybe on a month when money is not as tight I will spent ten bucks and buy some gems and see what I come up with. I saw it as a long term thing to work towards and identified it as what it was - Anet paying their employees and bills with putting something people said they wanted up for sale. Spreading hate and divisiveness doesn't help anyone or the game we all love to play. I hope the community can grow and move past this sooner than later.
This expansion already costs 30 bucks, so this price has to include all the bills and insurance for employees. Everything that comes apart is directed only for monetization and leeching money from the player base. If you want to spend real money on skins - you're welcome. But if somebody does not, there has to be other ways to obtain this skins.
Geshque Myasnikov if you take a game like wow for example, you have to pay a sub fee every month AND for new expansions. The sub fees are a way of earning money consistently and between expansions. Gw2 of course, has no sub fee so things like this rng mount skin thing is completely reasonable. Guessing you're for sub fees then?
Well there is a way in game to get it without paying real life money for it. It is to earn in game gold and then convert that money to gems and buy what you want from the gemstore. :) And no the cost of an expansion does not cover all the costs to run a game company between expansions. That is why some games have a sub fee AND you also have to pay a cost for the expansions. At least, with GW2 we don't have to pay a sub fee.
"so this price has to include all the bills and insurance for employees"
Is there a reason why the 30 dollar price tag has to include all these things? I have a feeling you are talking complete nonsense.
RowinnPlays, I totally agree with everything you said. I see the gemstore as an alternative to subfees that I do not have to buy into. I can choose and that makes this game amazing.
That LBA2 music at the end!! Also yeah, I liked listening to this just to know what happened, you described things pretty comprehensively and made any subjective feelings clear.
anet pls listen to this man i can only agree i hope they find a way to make the playerbase happy i think it would be cool if there could also be drops for the skins like in wow or other mmos i feel like anet is focusing a little bit to much on the gemstore (just watched a 1h video now i feel like a pro in terms of knowlege about rng) lol
its nice to hear a level head; i havent made it through the whole video yet but a couple of things to point out; you said is 12k gems for all 30 at the start; which it can be if you buy all the licenses one by one; but if bought as a full 30 pack they're 9.6k or 10.2k as 3*10 packs (which i went for because i didnt notice the 30 pack because for some stupid reason its a completely different item on the gem store)
also not sure if theyre mentioned; but my perspective is that licenses arent bad (rng means we get cheap mounts for collectors)...it sucks for people who only want one or two specific mounts and ive frequently suggested that anet shouldve let players bypass the rng and purchase a specific mount for 2/3* the price of a single license
i also disagree with people saying theres only a few 'good' mounts and the box is bloated; because i think the vast majority of them are very good (but not all are eye rapingly gaudy; which seems to be what these people want)
... also the system is a massive step up from black lion chests; which lack any kind of rng failsafe and suffer from horrendous bloating (all the weapon skins in the rare tiers instead of a single box with a selectable weapon type from that set)
I'm moderately amused that you brought up visual integrity while the video has you running around on a charr in full lime green dye and wearing a mask.
Amazing. This is why I follow you even after quitting the game. Thumbs up!
My son spent 120 gold to end up getting a skimmer skin that was not very cool at all. He rarely uses his skimmer, so I can see where you could get a little miffed about it. He was a bit upset. I bought one skin and got the spotted bunny skin but I use my bunny quite alot so I wasn't too upset about it. The skins look really good with shadow abyss and crimson lion or imperial red dyes.
I would say he learned an important life lesson. And i dont mean that in a sarcastic or bad way.
aaah man i feel bad for his son now .
you shouldn't waste gold if yer gunna be miffed when you know its totally random which skin you get and most of the skins are ugly(base colors). It's called gambling. I hope your son is familiar now with the concept. You put your hard earned money in, the house gets rich and you may or prolly may not win. Anet did it this way to make money and make people use their credit cards! not just ingame gold. I don't like it either, but i'm a grown up(sometimes :D) and i understand businesses like MUN EEEEEEEE!
I completely agree with you. And I think a lot of it can also be attributed to people kidding themselves and having a lack of self-understanding. Because obviously a bunch of people just said they have the money to throw around but then got stingy with the actual wealth they own. KNOW THYSELF (which isn't necesarilly easy).
I think people have a right in being this mad .. Gw2 is a comestic game .. PoF came with mounts, no skin earnable in game tho .. that sucks .. this is no ordinary game. Skins is all we have. Yet the coolest shit is dropped in the gemstore. That cannot be allowed.
Yeah, agreed. All of the Gem Store content wouldn't be so bad if there was meaningful progression aside from cosmetic upgrades in the actual game to accompany gem store cosmetics. Even Legendary weapons are technically cosmetic (aside from stat swap). It's just a shame the way they've handled progression and gear in this game.
GW2 were upfront from the start about the gem store being about convenience and cosmetics. You may only care about cosmetics, but I would far rather the game still had money to finance Living Story updates. Hopefully they go the same way as gliders and have a couple unlockable by finishing legendaries, but remember it took time for that to become an option.
GW2 end-game is essentially about doing achievements for cosmetics, or going for a legendary (cosmetic). So my point wasn't that I have a problem with the gem store per se, but rather the fact that the gem store items COMPETE with gameplay rewards instead of complimenting them. Getting loot rarely feels rewarding because there's always something as cool or cooler in the gem store and stats are usually negligible.
I have no qualms about buying things from the gem store (I have many times), but I hope you can see my point. They really need to justify gem store content with real IN-GAME content (better progression).
idk...maybe I'm just jaded. Hope you understand my point of view though. :)
I tried to justify people's opinion even tho I don't think this system to be as bad as people point it out.
Like WP said, the time it was released and the way they did it was the real killer here.
Excluding the jackal mount, which is subjective(if you think of it as a legendary item that you can just grind the gold and buy it) the pack containing them all for 9K gems was a killer move.
Because if we look at this system as a long term reward, I will gamble a few Gs seeing if I can get a skin for my Raptor / Jackal / Griffon. My odds if I play twice are quite high.
Plus, the skins in that box are all worth 400 gems. Some do deserve the price tag (the crappy ones) but the good ones, which are not so few, could very well worth 700-800 and yet are in the same package.
Ofc I still believe allowing you to choose what you want is and will always be the best solution. But like Deroir showed in his video, I recommend checking it out, it generates way less money.
"Gw2 is a cosmetic game" This statement.
For some, yes. For most, maybe still yes but I doubt it. For all, absolutely not.
I play the game for the story and new maps, both living world and expansion content. Since living world is more constant over time, I am playing more for that. We see plenty of people rush back to the game every time there is new content of story or maps. You can not say that these people are here only for the cosmetics otherwise the population would spike to the same number for each gemstore release.
I would far rather the cosmetic stuff almost entirely be on the gemstore and only the progression stuff, like legendaries be in game. At least that way there is company money to make living world.
As an aside, progression cosmetic stuff should have prestige. Therefore you do not want much of it that you progress to so that it sticks out. But you can have plenty of it for upfront purchase as none of the purchase stuff should have any prestige attached to it. By that reasoning, most cosmetics should be on the gemstore.
Thanks for taking a genuinely level-headed stance on this. It's easy to be a popular part of the community and join the hype train, but what people really need is someone who can put things in a different light, just so that they'll listen and start to actually think about things rather than automatically feeling upset. There's a lot to cover, and I think you did a great job doing so.
My takeaway here is, I am just too old and tired for controversy. If a developer consistently does things I do not like, I just (quietly) move on. And as an aside, I do think outrage culture is a big part of the "backlash".
Edit: You are right about statistics. My knowledge - I briefly worked in the industry - is a few years old, but you can assume that an F2P game makes about twice as much money per player as a subscription based game does. That's per player, not "per paying player".
Good video WP you raised some very interesting points that got me thinking about bits I hadn't considered for sure, even if I did disagree with some bits (sorry for the multiple comments but hey I wanted to comment alongside it ;) ) Again respect for putting this out given the atmosphere at the moment, certainly no one can ever criticise you for not being honest and true to yourself.
Just three words: Well said WP :)
Though I might add something that I don't recall hearing you say in your video, about why why so many are so vocal this monetization system.
Basically it all boils down to the fact people are so angry about this because the mounts were generally praised by the players, in virtue of its introduction and use in the content. Like you I agree that is hate is out of proportion and this argument personally makes me think that this hate is even more ridiculous because mounts as it stands are so much more than skins and they are not a copy paste of any other mounts in any other games that use mounts.
Excellent video. Although I don't spend money on the gem store I have been keeping up with the outrage on this topic. Your video was much more exhaustive than the others I've seen and you brought up several points I didn't even consider.
I actually agree with your ingame RNG points, if it's portrayed well and makes sense. I also agree that Anet has had one of the best-used microtransaction models (other than the awful black lion chests, but somewhat alleviated by ingame means)... until this system, as well as adopting the frankly insane mount skin costs from other MMOs for the jackal... It's obviously using manpower to produce, but if it needs a price tag of 2000 gems, it should not be a project for the game. I see people say "anyone can make gold and buy it", but that's not entirely the point for me, and it is not going to be nearly all players that buy them either. I want to encourage a healthy system for players AND A-net both. Not sugar-coating an awful system (when monetized) for players where their reward brain function is preyed upon... as you say, a bit sleazy.
Anyway, thanks for your opinion on it all. I do think your voice carries and I do not mind the video length at all making a point, though I must admit I am editing this as I watch the tail end. :) Still, never let video length bar the way, I say!
I always love your opinions cus you use your brain to think things through. You are a very intelligent person and I appreciate your commentary.
it seems that they are taking a more aggressive stance to their marketing. releasing the waypoints for all of tyria was the first time i thought that they made the game pay to win. i have 14 characters on my main account and 5 on my secondary, and not once have i been tempted to fudge on exploration. you could argue that its to help new players, but personally i feel they took the heart out of the game.
Just curious, but how is releasing all way points in Tyria pay to win? Why can't someone just do the exact same thing, but without using the gem store?
My thoughts with the waypoints pack are for whales who want to play with their guild for mission/dailies without being escorted around the game, or guilds that don’t want to escort (which is sad).... but that argument is pretty thin on the ice... as long as it’s just cosmetic and QoL in the cash-shop I do not care much.
Not everybody likes doing everything again. To me I loved doing the map the first time, I loved doing it the second time. But on my other characters I have maybe the most important ones like Lion's Arch and the xpac areas and nothing else. It's annoying to do the same things over and over again, grinding is okay because that at least offers progression compared to doing literally the same thing with no chance of getting a drop or whatever
Totally agree on the Waypoint Pack as well, I just don't see the point in playing an MMORPG where exploration is a such a huge part of the experience and then cutting that all out for convenience sake. People talk about doing it on alts repeatedly, fine, but what is the reasoning behind this? It's not like you need specific classes for world bosses, and even for things like Guild Missions you can often use the portal in your Guild Hall. Seems to me if you're doing map exploration on loads of characters you must enjoy some aspect of it so why shortcut it with gems?
Yeah don't see the point of making waypoints a thing you buy. Like i'm genuinely confused, why?
Seems like a useless thing designed to trick only people new to the game into wasting money.
3 minutes in: I'm heartened by your reaction so far and your dedication to personal integrity (not just jumping on a hate bandwagon for the sake of it etc.). If it's any consolation for the knot you had in your chest making this video, I have a similar (though probably less extreme) knot in my chest listening to it, but these 2-3 minutes of intro have assuaged my fears somewhat.
May come back to edit this comment after listening further.
Edit: I should have had more faith in you hehe. I agree with a lot of the things you said.
I think your solution is actually a good one. I don't mind if the RNG is still there for a lower price if I also have the option to buy exactly what I want.
What I got angry about was that it literally felt like an insult to anyone who is (more than) willing to spend their hard-earned cash on gems.
I make it a point to view gem purchases as supporting a dev studio that I greatly care about and want to see continue on. But in return, I believe it's only fair not to be cheated out of the "reward" I want to get, I believe that's simply a matter of respect.
Do I feel they crossed a line with this? Yeah. Am I foaming at the mouth because of it? Hell no.
And especially I don't feel any anger at the devs themselves, I highly doubt it was their idea, and as someone who works in doftware development himself I know how it feels to have to implement things you do not feel the least bit happy with personally. They're just doing their job in the end, and all things considered, they're doing it well.
I deeply appreciate your mature cool-headed approach to controversial topics, and how you present multiple sides of the issues. It's always a good listen even when I disagree with you.
The problems with it: 1) Its loot boxes, they cost way too much for a chance to get absolutely nothing from it
2) They held back THIRTY mount skins just so they can toss it onto the gem store, this could easily have either been in-game content or repackaged to so people can get skins for specific mounts. This is targeted towards kids who have no control over themselves when they spend daddy's money. Take a look at CSGO
3) This practice will continue, anet has had enough time to make a statement. They're laughing all the way to the bank
4) Some skins ruin the artistic and atmospheric integrity of the game, people have opted to choose the most tasteless dye possible and make their cosmic griffon look like a fking light bulb. This is worst than some infusion and legendaries, this is a LARGE ass model that is flying around everywhere. This is not tera.
5) They chose to do this when lootboxes were under fire. Im assuming, some executives saw how sucessful the lineage mobile games are doing and are pushing anet to make more money
6) Fools who think shitty business practices can be overlooked because you can convert gold is making a serious joke of our community
7) They wanted us to advertise with word of mouth? Well congratz. Any praises from PoF is going to be overshadowed by this, we're going to A) Lose players B) Lose potential players and C) Anet is going to milk us for what is left cuz of A and B. We're looking to grow the community, in case they havnt noticed, the game seems to have a very small and intimate population as it is. You're an MMO, the genre is having an issue as is, dont pretend like its overwatch or CSGO. Cut out the cancer, root and stem.
Call me overdramatic, but i want this game to succeed, but get this loot shit out of the game
And before you ask, yes BLC with exclusive skins ARE being complained about. We're not going to have a whataboutery conversation
/rant
EDIT: i.redd.it/dyi2sq2cmmwz.jpg Nuff said.
I'm not sure if you watched the whole video or not. no sarcasm.
2) They held back THIRTY mount skins just so they can toss it onto the gem store
did you not see this coming? of course this is how they were going to do it.
I' m seriously not sure if you are trying to be sarcastic...
to 1.) You get nothing? As far as my understanding goes, u get 1 new skin for every license... the argument of getting nothing isn't valid, since taste is subjective (for some it looks nice for some it's garbage)
to 2.) it's ANet's choice what they put into the game and what into the gemshop. after months or years every player should have known that.
to 4.) the look of some skins ruin the atmosphere? well good morning, this is a mmorpg, maybe try a single player :D skyrim is nice.
to 6.) imagine the game without the gold to gems option... 1 skin maybe 1 week of casual gameplay. ppl complain about the lack of long term goals, well here they are!
And after all, you might have some points, I give you that. But are you like new to the game? BLC chests have worse RNG and are in the game since launch and I bet ppl bought more keys while getting less.
Oh trust me it's not only the kids using their parents' money. There are a ton of people with "disposable income" who get lured into that stuff.
1) How many of the skins, out of 30, did you want? You can only equip 5. Got a griffin skin you like on the first try and want to roll another? NOPE. HERES ANOTHER ONE.
2) It is their choice, and it is also the consumer's choice to say that such business practices are bad of business. We're in the limelight right now, and not for good reasons. You think theyre just going to stop? Theyre laughing all the way to the bank. Their decision has consequences.
4) This game had an artistic integrity, people like me who played since the beginning, got into this game because it wasn't like other MMO. Now we have ugly ass light bulbs flying around, its an eye sore
6) Gold to gem is NOT content. Should they never release armor ingame anymore and just sell them in the gem store?
People shouldn't be bent over sideways and fucked and pretend like its the norm.
Appreciate you being honest. Gives legitimacy to other times you are informing us of things.
As for arguing for phantoms, a player who suffers from gambling addiction made a post on the forums and explained as much as he talked about how one of the skins in particular drew him into it immediately and caused him to relapse. Luckily he recognized what occurred and opted to remove himself from the game, but not only did he have people actually try to dismiss his real problem as not actually being a problem in his own thread, but others elsewhere have taken this stance that you have now. Unfortunately for you and them the numbers about people with actual gambling problems and addictive personalities in MMO player communities say a different story, so lets not refer to them as phantoms.
pkidawmbt - Couldn't agree more. I didn't care for WP's "phantom"-argument. Loot boxes shouldn't be a thing, especially in a game that is not rated 18+, because it is gambling.
So should Jack Daniel's stop making whiskey because alcoholics exist?
Starwind87 of course not, but they also can't set up a pop up shop next to an AA meeting and claim they are not contributing to a problem. Fun strawman though.
You... literally just made a strawman, then tried to say I was strawmanning your argument.
GW2 isn't a fucking gambling addiction support group. It's a video game. Some of their fans may have a gambling addictions. They're not actively going out and looking for people with gambling addictions. They're putting something that's quasi-gambling into their game, which may contain some players with gambling addiction problems.
That's, again, like saying a company/store can't sell alcohol because some of their customers are alcoholics. They're not selling alcohol specifically to target alcoholics, they're just selling alcohol to anyone.
It not gambling, buy the entire 30 contracts pack and you get everything! And gambling is when your money can become nothing, this you get a skin every time!
Keep in mind that GW2 has marketed itself or can be seen as a casual MMO, at least in most areas of its gameplay. The demographic for GW2 is largely adults who play after a day's work who are very willing to pull out their credit card as that is a resource they have more readily available than free time. I think Anet realizes this completely and it's why we've seen outfits and minis be put on the gemstore over the years. These are the same people who will be buying these adoption contracts without concern for the practice, and who will be the "statistics" you mentioned that will be reflecting that people do not mind these as much as the more outspoken individuals on the internet.
I also really like the connection you made with how levels of player distraction via content (expansions, living story, or lack thereof) directly relate to how the community reacts to Anet's decisions on certain things. The community tends to be far more explosive and outraged when there are lulls in content and be more accepting or have things go unnoticed when there isn't. This is sometimes implemented purposefully and is common practice in scenes outside of GW2 out in the "real world" and it's interesting that you picked up on that trend, albeit Anet doesn't really seem to make use of it in any malicious way or at all in their favor usually.
I aggree with you in that the reaction is quite exaggerated, and I'm not angry but disappointed. But I do think that the outrage is good. This is not a GW2 problem, it's a videogame industry problem. We need to charge against these practices, whether it's GW2, battlefront or call of duty. And the way we can achieve things in this industry as customers is with our wallets and specially bad press. That's what hurts them, that's where we hit them.
Very level headed analysis. I especially like your call to action of voting with your wallet. I completely agree that that's the most productive course of action.
The mount skin prices are steep and RNG sucks. I still don't feel obligated to buy them though.
Remove the RNG or the time limit on the 30 pack.
Drop some free skins into the world which can be earned.
Controversy over.
A good example of exploitative in game purchases? Look no further than Star Wars Battefront 2.
Back to the spider mount:
Arachnophobia is a stupid reason to cut it. I don't fear spider in any way, but I still flinched the first time I had the Ilboga debuff on me and saw black spiders falling down and a crow picking on my char. There are many spiders already in the game, e.g. the dwarven dungeon, in the spider room, when you run into a net, more spiders spawn. An achachnophobic person would never be able to make it through that room.
Meanwhile, huge and fuzzy spiders can look really cute and not so scary, more like a fuzzy mount with 8 instead of 4 legs.
I liked this video as soon as you said "I AM NOT PISSED OFF, OR REMOTELY ANGRY AT ANET for this 'skin adoption contract sale"
I actually like the new skins for the mounts ... a little expensive ... well, A LOT expensive
but most of the skins seem rather attractive
in time, should Anet decide that it is better to drop the price, and keep selling the skins ...I can foresee buying some
.... I'm just here to play the game, because I like the game
not to get caught up in ANY arguments for or against ANYTHING concerning the mounts, or game content
and in my opinion, the quickest way to the 'ignore list' for me at-least, is to flood the chat area with complaints about the mounts, or game content
just play the game and have fun
:)
well ... that is the way I feel
I thank you WP for putting out vids, I liked all the vids you put out concerning PoF
I followed several tips, and finally have the Griffon
so, tyvm there
:)
you're awesome,
tyvm for the vids,
and keep up the vid blogs
see you in-game
:D
I agree with the prospective solution. There's ONE skin I really want from the mount adoption, and only one mount I care about getting skins for, the jackal. If I'm ever on a different mount, it's only because I can't get to where I'm going by jackal. If I can pick and choose skins, I won't be getting useless raptor and griffon skins.
Not to mention the skins are way too flashy and immersion breaking as f*ck
This is my main problem, I'm not THAT pissed off about it being 30 skins, my main problem is how ridiculous the skins look, Legendary Weapons are already pretty flashy but thats fine, they are very hard to get and they aren't THAT crazy, but these? These are ridiculous, especially considering these aren't weapons these are huge models, simple solution, add an option to toggle off "flashy" skins
Shaitanification lmao this game lost it's sense of immersion when season 1 living story released.
There's a gilder that turns you into a meteor, so no, this doesn't hold up
You cant compare it to THIS i.redd.it/dyi2sq2cmmwz.jpg. Like seriously, whats wrong with you...
You cant even compare it to goofy legendaries or infusion, do you have any clue how BIG a mount is?! Its like 3 character models competing to be the fucking SUN (in a variety of shitty colors)
this is my BIGGEST issue. idc if they're in the game. im not buying them because im not fking stupid. but those starry gryphon mount skins? omfg they are an eyesore. this game just became another asian MMO
Good commentary WP. I think to make the existence of the gem store seem less painful players should think of the funds that they spend there as an alternative to monthly fee based game business models. If we use the mounts skins as an example and took a fifteen dollar a month fee and spent that on gems to buy mount skin licenses, you could own all thirty in a bit more than a year. I like to think I am supporting the developers who do an amazing job on the creation of new skins. To me each new skin is like purchasing a small bit of art work to add to my personal account gallery. Fashion wars is just a method of showing my appreciation for that art work by carrying it on or under my characters! Your gold to gem point is a very valid thought for players who do not want to spend real cash. Kudos to the developers for great work on POF and their continuing design efforts.
i'm getting a mount adoption for gold every day-ish with the current gold to gem ratio of 100+-G to 400gems, so in a month i'll have all of em, the jackal being 2K is kind of over the top but whatever, i don't care about any of this i just want more content in PoF content cuz i'm farming fractals and old hots meta's for gold.. seems weird with a new expansion being out, either way i hope a lot of dumbasses throw their credit card at these mount skins even though they cry on forums cuz arenanet will have more money to make more content, scam away anet!
imakid My man!
You make some great points, and brought up some things I hadn't considered. I am more annoyed about this than you are, but also it's worth pointing out that 2017 is the year of Lootbox Backlash. With what is going on in other games, this is a trend. That is part of why the player base is more critical than they would have been at launch.
GW2's reward structure overall has driven me away from the game. Why does everything have to be on the gem store? Glider skins, outfits, and now mounts? I have thousands of hours in GW1, several thousand hours in GW2, and consider myself a hardcore fan. I want to love the game, but I'm just sick of this kind of crap. RNG mount skins are the biggest offender yet.
I won't be logging in again until living world. I have no (rewarding) goals to work towards.
username checks out.
lul
because the game is free, and money has to be earned SOMEHOW. would you really, truly, genuinely, want GW2 to be $15/month sub fee, and no gemstore? cuz i wouldnt!
This is standard practice for f2p/b2p games, some people play for free so others have to pay for overpriced skins in the gemstore to keep the lights on at Arenanet.
That's everyone's excuse, and they're getting away with putting the only remaining "endgame" progression into their microtransaction system. Fashion is really all the game has beyond raids and fractals (which, I might add, are minuscule in scale compared to other MMOs).
I think this is a very professional representation of a (probably) unpopular opinion. I agree with this and I think everyone that's upset should watch this.
Yeah I could careless about this implementation. ArenaNet has given so much since release. This is just another way of acquiring extra revenue. I dont mind this at all. These are just cosmetics. If you're salty about these mount skins, don't buy it then.
Archie P I couldn't agree more.
I'm just worried that shitty anti-consumer practices like this will turn people away from the game, and that in turn will make everyone's experience worse.
My main problem is simple, HOW INSANE THESE THINGS ARE, I mean have you seen these mounts? I don't want a fucking sun flying on my screen every 30 seconds, there should be an option to turn off mount particle effects, that would solve my main problem
vary roung black lion cheat are gambling big time all thay did here was make sure you only get mounts at lest be happy this is not in black lion chest just think of that rng
Honestly, the community making a huge deal about a non-issue will turn away more players than cosmetics on rng chests ever would.
PREACH! WP, you've echo'ed the opinions I've been telling people over discord for over a week. It's nice to know I'm not alone.
ive looked forward to your non-biased approach. Becuase there will be people on both sides, expecting you to be mad or the other half wanted you be a fanboy. I honestly dont care either, granted thegamblign aspect is a bit bad but hey im ok. Plenty of stuff to still do in the game. may even get the odd moutn with gold. I know youve put effort into this...but i hate to say it..but im kind of bored of this argument.
Sitting back....while playing the game! (overshadowed some great changes and a really good balance)
intrigued how peopel can dislike this video already
It took about sixty seconds for those to appear. Rather than about the content of my discussion, they might not like that I'm making a video on it all, which I can understand.
further comments on reddit. Honestly...i just wanna play the game now and not have to deal with this. I really enjoyed the patch and have seen a number of people in PoF maps doing bounties. Some even full maps! I was taking PoF slow and theyve thrown in halloween and all sorts to keep me busy. The sky is not falling, theres plenty of stuff to get on with.
Hmmm...except for the fact that PoF maps are practically empty at this point and the main problem alot of people, myself included have, my beef isn't with the way it was implemented, I think its shoddy but fine I can ignore it, what I can't ignore is how insanely "flashy" these skins are, most of them don't feel like they should belong in GW2 and I think it would be fair to have an option to simply, turn them off if we don't want to see them
>full maps
>maps are practically empty
hmmm who's lying
One thing people haven't brought up is since its RNG we will have a variety of mounts in the game. I think we can all agree that we all kind of like a handful of mounts and if we could just straight out buy those everybody would have the same Mount. This way, not saying it's right, but forces people to use other mounts and giving us a variety.
Stop changing mounts without binds for fuck sake
hahaha come on man, he said he liked it rough.
As someone who's also been playing this series for over a decade, I really appreciate your wisened opinions based on what we've already seen happen in the past. I don't nearly have as much stake in guild wars 2 as I did a few years ago, but it's definitely easy to see patterns in community reactions and this same "song and dance" whenever there is a rally to get everyone in an uproar. I really liked your approach in this video and voting with your wallet, as you said, is probably the most reasonable response to this situation.
Hi wp!
Thank you for your fantastic video. You´r video helped me to better understand how my feelings have gotten in the way of a respectful discussion about this games future. I understand now that being angry does nothing for the game and only hurt it in the long run. Thank you for being you and helping the community to be better, thank you.
I really like your video and how you approached this problem. I must say that I realize I've overreacted a tad bit because I assumed the adoption contracts were time gated the same as the discounted one for 9600 gems. That said, I am still against the system for various reasons. Personally, I only ever use the doggo and the birdie, so right of the bat there's only 2/5th I would consider paying gems for. Out of those I only liked a few skins so it's down to about 4/30 skins, which puts my odds to a really bad place. As I've said elsewhere, the only way you don't lose by gambling on this (as one often repeated rebuttal was "but you don't get duplicates, so you don't lose!", is if you like most or all of the skins and use most or all of the mounts equally, which realistically speaking won't be the case for anyone. I've seen so much buyer's remorse going on with people rolling 3 skimmer skins and not getting the only skin for the skimmer they liked or rolling 2 raptors and 4 bunnies but no griffon, which was the only mount they actually use. I've also seen people proudly showing off their 30 mounts while poorer players who either live in countries where getting money to buy the gems is more or less impossible or who work a lot and don't have time to farm 24/7 were so upset and envious that they felt they shouldn't go online because seemingly half the player base was running around on these fancy mounts with their cool skins and they'd never get one.
I feel there's a number of ways they could've handled this better:
With RNG: Make smaller bundles. Either make the set specific bundle (the fire one, the starry one, etc.) OR make a mount specific bundle where you have a 1/5 chance to either get the skin you like or a skin for a mount you want.
Without RNG: Make the bundles separate, like the Halloween one. Had they made a separate starry set, firey set, stripey set, I would have AT LEAST gotten two (priced at 2k gems this would've made me pay 4k at the very least right there right then).
Make the mounts available individually and price them higher. I would've gladly payed up to 1k gems for a guaranteed skin for a specific mount.
I also want to mention the reforged warhound and why I found their pricing problematic: Many that were thrown off by the fact that our odds might be reaaaally bad if we wanted only a few of the 30 skins were looking for a guaranteed skin. That being the warhound. Why do I really loathe them putting it there? Because with 2k gems it's very expensive, but the doggo is probably the most popular mount as it looks cool, is very useful and is the one you still can boast without having the griffon - in that Anet was very smart putting that one up. I'm not really mad about the 2k gem price tag because they went further than just the skin appearance (animation plus it's dyeable) and though I think a price tag around 1.5k or 1.6k would've been more realistic, I don't actually find it too preposterous to ask for that. What I did mind is that, as mentioned, it made people who don't like to gamble buy that instead without even thinking about the price tag too much (I'm actually still considering buying it as I write this).
So my reaction to all this has been to not buy any of the adoption contracts because I just don't endorse this kind of RNG. I already don't really like the BLC keys because I only ever roll crap out of those, but every now and then I will invest in those and at least get a scrap out of it. And I've made my peace with that since you can get the keys through the weekly key farm. And there's people who enjoy the thrill of that so there's that too. But I think the gem store didn't need any more RNG based items. Even so, it's just the gross amount of 30 mount skins that kinda angered me. Had they made smaller bundles, I might've even invested in some of them because I'd know there's only so much money I have to spend to get the skin I like for the mount I use even if I'm rolling the dice. I for sure would've invested had I been able to pick either a set or an individual skin. It just really felt like Anet testing the waters on how much they can push the loot box system on us and though the backlash has been a bit extreme in places, I do hope it makes them realize that not putting up a system like that would've been more lucrative. Refusing to buy anything in the gem store won't help, nor is the threat of not buying the next expac, I readily agree with that. I think the only way they're going to stop with this if people don't cave into the "Oh, I might get a nice skin after all"-gamble and don't buy contracts or if ultimately more will buy the warhound than the mount tickets. If their griffon version of the warhound looks remotely as cool, I don't have an issue paying the 2k gems.
TL:DR, if enough don't buy, we might have a chance that the next releases won't be loot box-y. Warhound is ok-ish priced since they added more than just a skin (animation, that is also dyeable to boot). Threatening isn't going to accomplish much, just don't buy what you know you won't likely get.
Excellent video WP! I really appreciate the tone that you took and the honesty in telling us that you're just kind of over getting upset about the store cuz you're right you could have bandwagoned with the rest of them and been on the front page of the subreddit but I'm glad that you decided to keep it informative and I appreciate that Integrity thank you
You definitely got my soft spot at 36:01 I consider my self a pretty empathetic person, and when you gave us ArenaNets Theoretical point of view, you hade like 150% of my attention I definitely don't want to see GW2 go anywhere as this is my favorite game even if I come and go... I just subed Idk why
I've been playing since the first Beta Weekend. I have 10 level 80 characters. I haven't paid 1 dime for gems. I don't ever plan on it either. Every gem I have I got through exchanging gold. As far as I'm concerned, they can do whatever they want with the gem store. I have better things to do that berate their morality.
WP, I've been watching your videos since the Zephyrites first showed up. Your enthusiasm, whether pleased or not, is always infectious. Keep up the great work.
49:20, that's the thing that I was thinking. I'm listening to the whole thing as we speak and this is agreat video. You're not choosing a side but explaining motives from both sides. Quite a lengthy one but very enjoyable to listen to!
Also, I've had a couple of internships and worked at several companies now and I know it's possible that not everyone is on the same line. Marketing thinks about reaching the people and turning that into profit, communications/community management thinks about pleasing the customer, concepting (creative minds) do not want their ideas to be limited by the two previously mentioned parties. It's hard to please everyone inside the company and it's even harder to please your customers. At the end of the day, with any company, it's about that big plus at the end of month/year.
If I see that many people buying them anyway, then I would say it was a bold but smart move. I don't like the idea at all but they must've made a lot of money out of this update.
Sorry for any grammatical issues. Wrote this in a hurry. Guess my dinner will be burnt!
Thanks for taking the time to make this WP and fair play for putting your opinion out there when you know it might run partly contrary to the outrage at the moment, big respect.
I do take slight issue with the point you make around the 35 min mark about people looking at the worst case scenario. Sure, the reality is that most people would get that one skin they desire most before going through all other rolls BUT the point is the chance of you getting the skin you want is a flat 1 in 30 chance at the initial outset, the same chance for every player (before they start the gamble and improve their odds by removing one from the pool).
I'm sure I'll have some other thoughts when I've finished the rest of the video but wanted to comment on that before I forgot :P (DAMN YOUR LONG VIDEOS EVEN THOUGH I LOVE THEM)
That's a good point about the initial 1 in 30! For sure I hadn't thought of that, and it affects my opinion on that little area definitely.
The Legendary backpacks were glider skins as well. Those were the only in-game attainable glider skins.