Using transit around Toronto is great if you already know where you are, where you're going and how to get there. But wayfinding as an outsider is incredibly difficult, and it feels as though the TTC is at best oblivious to making things better, or at worst doing it intentionally.
@Emilie Hurst I have never seen a Toronto bus stop that doesn't list the route and have a phone number you can text for to the minute updates on arrivals.
@@danadavis1754 texting is not a good alternative, if you can text a number you can most likely look up the route online anyway. they should list at least some basic information about the routes on the bus stops.
omg yes! This video was so great. I've so often said that Toronto's streetcar network should be so much better than it is! It boggles my mind how slow a streetcar can be, even along a dedicated route like Spadina. It's crazing coming from Europe - literally anywhere in Europe - and going to Toronto, and seeing the difference in speed. If I'm in, say, Amsterdam or Berlin, my tram is almost never going to stop, unless it's at a station. It's hella fast. In almost any other city, the tram network is the high-speed, high-capacity network, that is often _faster_ than taking the metro, because the stops are at ground level and often closer to your origin and destination. But in Toronto, the streetcars are seen as some kind of "inferior metro" that everybody wants to replace with a subway. Why are the King and Dundas streetcars not already a "Yonge relief line"? They could be, if it were as fast and efficient as trams are in other cities. I really wish that instead of focusing so much on subways (which are great, don't get me wrong), Toronto would bring its streetcar network up to international standards. That alone could bring high-speed reliable rapid transit to literally hundreds of thousands of Torontonians, and it could be done within months or a few years, instead of decades.
Just generally letting what we have whither and focusing on something new and shiny is a problem for the ages! Especially because fixing old stuff is usually pretty cheap compared to building new!
I'm surprised you weren't disappointed in Basel, we have the slowest trams in Europe, and we can't rip out stops because, well good luck removing stops. Highest stop density is a bit of a problem here.
That's just not true. You should stop praising all of Europe as this great public transport utopia, because it's just not true as universally as you put it. Just took the Berlin tram yesterday and got stopped like 10 times over a distance of three stops because of traffic and traffic lights. It was horribly slow, and that on an important connection (Nordbahnhof to Hauptbahnhof).
@@jeycalc6877 Not if you live in the Netherlands since I don't think any tramroute runs on a bicycleroute. If anything they are parallel traffic to the station, so there's no logical reason why you would organise it like that.
My main gripes: 1) The streetcar stops to pick up/dropoff passangers after a street light. Which means, it often gets stuck at a red light, goes through the intersection, just to stop again. 2) When stopped at an intersection red light, cars turning left with an advanced get the right of way before the streetcar, which means 1-5 cars with typically 1 person in the car get the right of way over potentially 100 passangers in the street car. I think fixing both would dramatically increase speed and allow streetcars to have an advantage over passanger vehicles.
The other way can be annoying too for #1 though, there's buses which will stop to pick up and drop off people, and by the time they're done, the light goes back to red, meaning extra wait on the stop. The main issue here is the lack of priority signals to let transit through.
And in Melbourne they don't let drives park next to a stopped tram. Cops enforce that. Combined with the "tram stops before the light not after" and cars basically get an "retarded stop light"... the effective red light is behind the tram not besie it.
It's a well known problem that stopping before the light encourages the dropped off passengers to cross in front of the tram/bus that is trying to leave, leading to safety issues (and/or for the driver having to wait for all of them). Or maybe passengers might even intentionally rush in front of a vehicle that is about to depart in order to force the driver to wait for them. Whereas stopping right after a light means that late passengers know that running around behind the vehicle will mean they'll still catch it. And dropped off passengers will cross the street behind the vehicle that dropped them off where they won't get in its way. I think stopping right after a light (or intersection) is ideal, but any tram (or bus) on a dedicated lane should get prioritized (getting signal priority). Of course, this won't work for trams that drop passengers off in the middle of traffic (unless the signal phasing can keep vehicles from turning into the leg of the intersection that the tram is stopped in).
The problem isn't nearside or farside, the problem are dumb traffic lights. All street car systems around where I live (Germany) use mostly directly opposing platforms, which means it is always farside for one direction and nearside for the other. Both can work perfectly with the streetcar never at a red light, and both can be messed up, sometimes on the same route.
It’s interesting because the same fiscally conservative “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” mentality that led to Toronto mostly keeping a perfectly adequate streetcar network during a time when other cities were ripping them out in preparation for the newest futuristic rubber tire buses has also been the same mentality that has made Toronto hesitant to change the streetcar in any drastic way that would lead to them having better service (like an abundance of dedicated travel lanes when there are only a few along the network)
It's also a stubborn reluctance to look at other cities and learn from their example. To anyone who has visited Berlin or Tokyo, it should be obvious that Toronto needs to integrate TTC and GO into a single system, yet this idea remains controversial, even with ostensibly "progressive" city councillors
Yes this has traditionally been the culture of Toronto staff/politicians. The running joke is "the only way to convince Toronto to do something is to demonstrate that they are literally the last place on the planet which hasn't done it yet". Fortunately this has been changing in recent years, and Toronto has become much more willing to innovate.
Some excellent points… a few years ago, the biggest priority was “we need low floor streetcars” - and all these small things got brushed under the rug. Now, let’s get on it!
@@RMTransit just the bare minimum was provided not even a wooden ramp at the front of the tram at busier stops for wheelchairs and other mobility devices
@@sblack53 yes, but also the older unreliable streetcars needed replacing - and a billion dollar order does distract from the issues that Reece raises!
Living in Sydney, I’m surprised that Toronto hasn’t done more to make their trams/light rail a higher priority. Sydney has excellent wayfinding signs and just decided to remove cars from a section of the road where they run alongside the Light Rail.
That especially applies to George St in Sydney, which is one of the main N-S routes. This street is really too narrow to have trams and cars together, so the tram-only section (more than a km) has virtually no cars and has become much more pleasant. BTW, Sydney trams also have a weird 5-way (sort of) intersection at the exit ramp from Central station, which has to deal with cars, trams, pedestrians, and buses. It is truly "interesting", especially on a bike. I hope they gave the people who had to program it a nice holiday afterwards :-).
North America, even places like Toronto, are still ruled by the car. So little is being done to prioritize other modes of transport. Toronto was making some attempts, but Rob Ford basically rolled a lot of that back. A lot has to do with the way the city is governed. What you think of as Toronto is actually an amalgamation of of multiple cities that had a shotgun wedding by Conservatives around 25 years ago. The end result is that Toronto "proper" has little say over what goes on and a lot of stuff is decided by basically suburban dwellers who value the car above all else.
Sydney's tram is so slow. Understandable in George St as it is now pedestrianised (30kph is plenty, I don't know what speed it actually goes tho but Bourke St Mall in Melb is 30kph). But once off George St it remains tediously slower than it should be - pushbikes overtake the tram in many places!
Some thoughts as someone who lives in Melbourne: - In Melbourne the latest trams have onboard LCD way-finding. The latest generation trams in Melbourne are part of the flexity family so there is no reason it shouldn't be able to be added to Toronto's fleet. - Also when there is a branch the overhead voice announces which way the tram will turn which again show it's possible for Toronto. - As to manually thrown switches Melbourne has progressively phased them out. I remember as a child when seeing the driver get out to throw the points was quite common and now I don't think I've seen it in years. - I think you are overemphasising the stops in Melbourne. Firstly for terminology, the level boarding stops in Melbourne are called super stops. The vast majority of tram stops in Melbourne are not super stops. They are just a metal sign post with a green sign just like in Toronto. What Melbourne has done is strategically build them at the busiest stops which is something Toronto could learn from. At 4:26 you show Swantson street in the centre of the CBD with 8 routes going though that single stop. At 16:07 you show there the 109 tram stops at North Richmond Station. Both of those are busy stops. For contract my local tram stop is no different to a basic suburban bus stop but almost no one gets on or off there.
It seems that even our most basic stops in Melbourne seem to be better than the normal ones in Toronto. The Toronto ones seem to often be nothing more some metal signs attached to whatever is already there. The most basic ones in Melbourne get their own pole with the consistent signage and slots for changing out and adding info, which is super important for people to physically find the stops and for Yarra Trams to put up info about changes etc.
Great points, having a superstop equivalent in TO would make a ton of sense, that's why I mention phasing something in! Start with the busiest stations and dedicated right of way routes first!
Toronto's streetcars are fully capable of announcing when they are turning onto a branch or diverting off route, however, it is not automatic and therefore inconsistent. I take the 504 almost daily and some cars do announce "this vehicle will turn right, to distillery" and display on screen "this vehicle will turn to distillery" as it is approaching the stop before the turn-off, unfortunately, it seems many drivers forget to trigger the announcement or don't set up the system correctly to do it automatically. Also this announcement only works on the distillery branch, vehicles continuing to Broadview station do not have any announcement at all. Over the last 2 years, there has not once been a single day where there isn't some sort of diversion on the 504 due to track replacement or water main replacements so the lack of these announcements is extremely frustrating especially when there are so many diversions that at one point all 504 cars started displaying just 504 King on the destination board. like where are you going? are you going to broadview, the distillery or are you gonna turnback at church? it honestly felt like even the drivers didn't know where they were going until they got there.
While some of the complaints about the streetcars are justified and backed up by data, some are simply subjective and circumstantial. A good example is when they repaired the tracks on Queen Street, they replaced the routes with buses. People were happy how much faster the buses were compared to the streetcars, and a petition actually started to keep the buses and get rid of the streetcars over it. The TTC however, were confused. All their data was showing that the buses were actually SLOWER than the streetcars, route times were worse. What? It turns out, buses are perceptually faster. In that, because they jostle and bump and bang the rider around, it actually feels like the bus is going faster, breaking hard and weaving in and out of traffic. The streetcars actually were faster, but their smooth rides and smooth acceleration/braking meant that they felt slower. Which is often touted as an advantage of streetcars. But they "feel" slow so people just assume they are actually going slower, when they aren't.
@@hassaniqbal1081 but 1 streetcar moves more people than a bus. I dont know how a bus stuck in the same bumper to bumper traffic on Queen is faster than a streetcar.
You never mentioned the dreaded "short turn". The worst is when they decide to short turn ~after~ you get on the streetcar. All of a sudden you're dumped in the middle of nowhere, in a -25C snowstorm, the next three trains are also short turning and you suddenly realize if you'd have started walking when you were discharged 45 minutes ago, you'd be at the coffee shop warming up by now.
Ha, ha, ha!:- welcome to Toronto, the brain-deadest place on Planet Earth! There's also "Not in Service" which is a secret destination which is very popular with TTC drivers:- I tried to hide behind a seat once to go there but drivers ruthlessly search for passengers trying to sneak into "Not in Service" and will sternly order you off the vehicle! After awhile you become quite good at guessing which vehicle will short-turn:- traffic congestion often results in "convoys" of trams trundling along so you usually skip the first one which is packed and then the emptier second one which is most likely to short-turn and take the third one. Other fun things to do in Toronto is waiting at Queen and Yonge for a westbound Queen car at 200 am which is running well behind despite no traffic and watching big fat raccoons waddling about going from restaurant to restaurant. Btw, locals will tell you that "TTC" really stands for "Take The Car"! The best part about going to Toronto is coming back! 😄
As a tourist travelling in Toronto, I was completely perplexed by how many versions of "Route 504" there were. I had a hard time looking for the tram to catch but eventually had to change to another route at an intersection to get to where I wanted. It would be more reasonable if one numbering represents one single route only.
I do agree that suffixes can make sense, but not on 3 digit routes. With 3 digits to work with, you could use a numbering scheme where 500 is one route, and 501-509 are used to denote branching services on that route. Same for 510-519, 520-529, ... In other words, the second digit denotes up to 10 different corridors and the singles digit can denote up to 10 different branching routes on that corridor. If you have more than 10 streetcar corridors, then 505-509 can be a different route than 500-504. (Potentially even starting the numbers at 509 and moving towards 505, for more distinction between the numbers and more space to grow one route beyond what would currently be an "E" suffix. If that isn't enough then the 400s, 600s 700s and 800s seem to be available, too. With that you can have route 500 be the first one on a certain corridor, and 600, 700 and 800 splitting off from that corridor. Same for 584 splitting into 684 784 and so on. 100 different tram routes with up to 4 branches.
One of the biggest reasons trams are taken out of service is to repair doors. Door buttons greatly reduce the number of times doors open or close and thus the frequency of repairs. Passenger comfort is a second reason for working door buttons. As is so often the case, transit operators need to look to Germany and learn.
Door buttons are used on trains in Melb (older trains have to be manually slid open, once the driver realeases the central locks!) but trams the doors are there but they're only used for reopening, initially all doors are opened.
@@peterhoz I wonder, however, if opening all doors even at minor stops is more accessible. Perhaps it would be better to make the door mechanisms more reliable. Reece mentions that level boarding is more accessible, but perhaps Toronto should also have compulsory (not request) stopping on dedicated rights of way as this is also more accessible. Have you ever seen visually impaired people miss their stop because they thought there were people waiting at it but no one was? At least in Frankfurt, Asian tourists might just stand in front of the door when the door button glows green instead of pressing the button to open it. Consider that before looking to Germany. Gothenburg, Sweden, also gets really cold winters and yet door buttons on trams there are not used much more often than in Melbourne.
And here I thought Toronto's streetcars were the cat's meow (as someone who hasn't been on a streetcar in about 20 years!). Thanks for pointing out areas public transit can be made so much better.
@@RMTransit or it is the other way round, where you start only seeing the negative. Some cities have good transit, but people complain as if it was outrageously bad.
Yep, I've been there. I'd keep looking down the street to see if the street car was coming and not one would come by before I would get to my destination.
@@mikem.2688 And if you're left walking after getting off a short turned streetcar it hurts even more, like why did I pay a fare to go 3 stops and why did the next 3 vehicles also short turn, I just wanna get home😭😭
This couldn't be closer to the truth. I took a streetcar from U of T (cause why not, I'm a transit enthusiast) to Union to catch a bus home. My commute caused me to miss not one, but two buses out of Union thanks to slow traffic, construction, not knowing where the platform was (I grew up near Toronto, so I wasn't a total stranger to how the TTC worked), and a bunch of redirections. Toronto needs to really step their game up and fix this system. Even as a frequent commuter, it's hella confusing.
@@RMTransit Lost?!:- let me tell you about the poor old lady who was walking to get groceries in Brooklyn back in 1976 when she was young but she was abducted by UFOs but she put up such a fuss that by the time they flew over Toronto they tossed her overboard and fortunately she landed in a tree but her head got bumped a little and caused permanent amnesia. She climbed down but found that living in Toronto is like living in a big cemetery full of zombies with their heads stuck up their arses and she could never find her way to the 1930s Art Deco intercity bus station on Bay St to get back to Brooklyn so she spent the rest of her life riding on Toronto streetcars talking to herself in a Brooklyn accent. This is a true urban myth!
Spadina line: last time I used it, going north, despite the line having dedicated lanes - it took longer to get me where I was going than walking the day before had. Because the streetcars spend so much time stopped at lights. If you're going to have streetcars, they should have priority over car traffic.
Interesting. Here in Germany, there's a specific traffic sign for transit stops [technically, bus or tram stops on a street] - a green H in a green circle on a yellow background, "Zeichen 224". (There are some variations, but they're easily recognizable as such.) The idea seems to be that it's something traffic, in general, ought to be aware of, not just passengers.
Thanks Reece. Sadly I agree with EVERYTHING you say. To be honest, in many of the high density downtown streetcar routes, there should be NO car traffic at all. Just delivery trucks, Taxi and emergency vehicles. And enforcement is key
I think it's worth mentioning that when the King right of way was first introduced, it was enforced very aggressively. There were police cars prowling the area and pulling people over frequently. This proved to be *incredibly* unpopular and the pushback pretty much killed enforcement.
@@RMTransit I do wonder if compliance would be better if they updated the traffic lights to provide dedicated transit signals and only show turn arrows for regular traffic.
The King Street project is still a joke. Streetcars are still running at random times. Before you could get a cab if you need to get somewhere quick and if the “next streetcar” on the app tells you it’s gonna be 25mins but now the cabbies don’t come down King Street anymore.
@@Kalicious79 it was like clockwork until the construction on king started. Should be fine again after that’s done. It’s a complete mess right now though
Long, long ago, in what feels like a galaxy far, far away, the streetcar drivers used to sing out the stops and mention any connecting routes (bus, streetcar, or subway).
The streetcar network is a straight mess that's for sure. On portions of the routes that go through the core, they really should consider removing cars all together and making those streets pedestrian and transit only streets (of course with exceptions to emergency vehicles). For example, if they really want King street to come to life, they need to remove the cars, add some interlocking paving stones, and create a streetcar/bus right of way. That way it becomes a street for pedestrians, and transit/emergency vehicles can actually get through and provide good service. That last thought on the city of Toronto was also good. They can implement these policies all they want, but they mean practically nothing if they aren't enforced. Great video sir!
Melbourne has a simple solution for the streetcar merging onto the street problem which doesn't require signal priority: the tram has priority and cars have to give way.
The best thing about the new TO streetcars is the colour scheme. The red and white looks great. The new trams for the Crosstown and Finch lines would be wise to follow suite. The real big problem with the new Toronto trams is that the headlights look like the headlights on a bus. All trams around the world should by law have 3 headlights only. A big one in the middle and 2 smaller ones on the side, round of course. No squarepants headlights. That way, we can easily see them coming from way off, and 3 headlights are just aesthetically better and give trams the traditional tram look. Also, the windows don't open so you can't really sit and enjoy the ride wirh your arm hanging out like in the old days. Old school trams will always be the best trams.
I'm from the UK. I have ridden the Toronto trams a couple of times as a tourist, not long before the high floor ones got retired (I tried both old and new). The biggest thing I noticed was having to walk into the middle of the street, through traffic, to board the tram. That felt very unsafe and third-world to me. In London, the Croydon tram network has proper stops with shelters for every stop. Also the lack of dedicated right of ways seems a bit silly. Finally, as you mentioned, the wayfinding is awful. The stops are really hard to notice if you don't know what you're looking for, and the route numbering system is complicated. It was also difficult to know when you should get off the tram. Most of these things shouldn't be that hard/expensive to fix really.
@@Jay-vr9ir You're not wrong about it being cramped and the no headroom. Something to do with the fact that a) it's popular, and b) the tunnels were built a very long time ago, when people were shorter and tunnelling was very expensive. It's very hard to fix that, but it's not nearly as hard for Toronto to fix it's streetcar network. Also, London transit is not "way too expensive of the average person". TFL records 8 million journeys per day in a metro area of 9.5 million people. I would say that illustrates that the average person can, and does afford it on a regular basis.
@@mdhazeldine PT is ridiculously expensive in the UK compared to comparative cities/countries. Just because millions of people are forced to pay it doesn't change the fact.
@@shaunmckenzie5509 I agree that it's expensive, but it's not so expensive that people choose not to pay or can't pay, mainly because driving is even more expensive and difficult.
Everything you were saying about track maintenance suggests that the decision was made that keeping a particular population of workers / contracting firms happy was more important than keeping riders happy.
For a very long time the city + TTC purposely went with cheaper construction for track installation.. not sure if we're fully done replacing all of those tracks now that we've finally switched to construction that lasts much longer.
8:50 I've always disliked this about the Streetcar and BRT routes in the GTA why does the bus have to wait for the cars and the trucks to complete their left turn? Just have the transit signal on first then the left turn.
Transit can always be improved - but the biggest improvement would always be to limit the ability of cars to use downtown streets. The congestion is the number one cause of delays for buses and streetcars.
Yeah its the cars. Im thinking around st. james park is a glaring example of pointless cars that cant stop just pass through, so business along this road only serve foot traffic but all the foot traffic at the park is blocked by the road. So these cars just passing through hurt the economy, and ruin the health - pollution of the area. Just to get cars out of downtown, maybe some kind of underground road or overpass is the only way and shut off most access to dowtown via car and just watch business explode. And with all these condos, its really the only way to make living outside these buildings bearable - more pedestrian/friendly only areas.
Wish you spent more time on eliminating stops! I have always wondered why we don't have 'express routes', at least during rush hour. Why the 504 needs to stop at almost every block (Spadina, Peter, John, etc.) at any time, let alone 8am, has always baffled me.
The idea of naming the streetcars routes T1, T2 etc is simple yet so essential. I have taken the numbers 501 etc for granted without imaging what visitors to the city experience navigating the network.
I am moving to Toronto in a month. I understand that things could be better, do better. BUT HONESTLY, my country has the worst transit system, don't even get me started! HAHA. So for me look it looks amazing, organized, clean and safe!
Some of those stops out in the boonies need shelter from the wind though. I was not aware of many of these possible improvements, this video definitely made me think!
When the newer model streetcars were introduced, they didn't open all the doors until people pressed the buttons, but people weren't aware of it so they got confused. This is more of a design issue though - the buttons are small relative to the door size, there's a significant delay between touching the button and opening the door, and sometimes the buttons make a sound but they aren't responsive (such as when the streetcar is about to begin moving). There's also those who are hesitant to touch surfaces during the pandemic, especially buttons that are pressed by hundreds or thousands of people everyday. The design of these lines leave a lot to be desired. Even on separated streetcar lines such as St Clair Ave W, streetcars don't get priority, the stops are unlit, there are too many stops in a short distance (Vaughan Rd, Bathurst, St Clair W, and Tweedsmuir are all within a 5 min walk of each other but take 10-15 mins for the streetcar), and because of the stop location being after lights, people are often dangerously rushing through traffic to get to the streetcar before it leaves. It's insane. TTC = Take The Car.
Guy who was a rep when they deployed the new streetcars here.... The doors actually have two operation modes for "open". One is "forced open" which is what they use now, and the other is "as required open"... They initially had the operator default to "as required" to help conserve heating and cooling inside the streetcars. The operator ALWAYS had the option to force open the doors at any time (as long as it's streetcar is not in motion). It's a operational policy, rather than a problem with the door operation design. Eventually, they did just require operators to use force open for peak and the operator is left to decide to use "as required" during off peak or at their discretion. One change I should note is the door closing speed. The initial spec had the doors do a fast close where the doors slid close fast and slow down at the last moment. This allowed the streetcar to meet tighter operational targets. HOWEVER, because people are people... Some people get "stunned" but the closing doors. Imagine being momentarily squeezed between the two sliding doors if you attempt to jump in or our when the door chime is going. In turn, the TTC changed the door closing to do a full "slow" closure which then slowed down and extended the platform time for the streetcar. This also in turn made it that during rush hour you would almost always have people attempting to jump in last second, succeeding... But the door will not close because the line break detector went off and the door assume someone is in the way of the door. I suppose what we can take away from this is that, better efficiency does not necessarily mean better user experience. Because humans are humans and people will be people.
@@RMTransit Say the button glows green, someone stands in front of the door, waiting for it to open, but it doesn't. That someone is kindly told by a staff member to press to open, but instead of trying to learn from it, that customer abuses the staff member, claiming that staff member was rude.
I think the reason why all streetcar doors open is a legal/safety thing. Since the law in Toronto states you can't pass "open doors". So by default the drivers open the doors to stop traffic from passing the car before people enter/exit the vehicle. Otherwise you could legally continue driving past the stopped streetcar until one (or all) of it's doors are open.
It's not possible for drivers to see if the doors are actually open with any consistency. If the street car's lights are flashing you're supposed to stop. It says so right on the back of the vehicle.
I am pretty sure the abundance of flashing red LEDs that project from the side of the street car serve that same purpose. Besides... I see drivers ignore this "law" all the time time and I have never seen any enforcement or ticketing resulting from it. I've seen Toronto Police vehicles in line of site of these infractions and I have never seen any one get pulled over. There are cameras all of these modern street cars too... perhaps they should have a automatic ticketing system for drivers who breach this Ontario Highway Traffic Act law just like they have red camera lights. Again, all of the flashing red lights on the door side of the street car make the need to stop by drivers abundantly clear.
@@KaiHenningsen After some further investigation I found this: Ontario Highway Traffic act Section 166(1) States: Where a person in charge of a vehicle [...] overtakes a street car [..], operated in or near the centre of the roadway, which is stationary for the purpose of taking on or discharging passengers he or she shall not pass the car or approach nearer than 2 metres measured back from the nearest door of the car that the person is approaching and through which passengers may get on or off . So the law just states you have to stay 2m from the door regardless if the lights are flashing or if the doors are open if the streetcar is embarking or disembarking passengers.
These all seem like really common sense, low cost changes that the City can make with minimal dependency on the Province. I wonder if a small, passionate group could sway City Hall to push some of these through...
My proposal for line naming in Toronto: Level 1 - prefix assignment: Trams get T prefix: T1, T2; Night routes get N prefix: N0 (or N100), N84; Express buses get X prefix: X0 (or X100), X27; Community buses get C prefix: C4 instead of 404… Limited routes get L prefix: L22A, L162. Level 2: line renumbering: Trams get the lowest numbers; Core bus lines (longer, straighter) get higher numbers; Shorter lines (curvy) get even higher numbers; Some limited and seasonal buses should have the highest numbers. Greetings from Kyiv, Ukraine (my city has a very bad transportation system) P. S.: Please tear down Gardiner Expressway, make Highway 401 narrower and Highway 407 free as this is the best bypass for thru traffic. No thru traffic should be routed into the city.
Letter prefixes are confusing, especially when we already have letter branch suffixes. They’re apparently confusing enough that all of the “E” branch express routes had to be spliced together with the 190-series Rockets into the 900-series Express Network. Also, renumbering routes en masse would cause so much confusion as to make everything unusable for most passengers. The original
@@sblack53 Confusing ? Letter prefixes work perfectly in Paris where the subway lines are prefixed M and tram lines are prefixed T, they even have both the same range of numbers and no one confuses them. There are M1 to M14 (soon up to M18) metro lines and T1 to T13 tram lines. Suffixes : the T3 line is so long that it is split into T3a and T3b. And as said in the video, tram-train lines are suffixed "Express". The night buses are prefixed N also. Regular day buses are numbered 20 > 100 for Paris core routes, and numbers above 100 are for suburbs. Each hundred range above 100 is more or less indicating the distance from the core : 100 > 200 is give or take the first ring of suburbs, 200 > 300 is further away and so on. I very roughly simplified the numbering scheme for buses, but you get the overall idea. Prefixes are a real help because you instantly know that if you're connecting from the subway to T2 for example, a tram line, you have to emerge to the surface from the subway and exit the fare control zone to connect. On line's wayfinding diagrams, each stop has a list of connections grouped by type, each with a pictogram / prefix letter. A new, improved and well thought naming and numbering scheme would be great for Toronto. Prefixes work and are pretty self explanatory. Just look at Berlin for another example : subway lines are prefixed U for U-Bahn and suburban trains are prefixed S for S-Bahn. It's even a naming convention shared throughout Germany and Austria.
I still remember the first time I took the streetcar in Toronto it was slower than simply walking. Never took it again. I do very often use the subway though
It does depend on which route -- the ones with dedicated rights of way are reasonably fast. Queen and King are fine, except for frequent short turns. The College and Dundas ones are TERRIBLE and have been since the 80s.
I was in Warsaw the other day and was very impressed by the speed of the trams there. In many cases they went faster than the cars. Granted the city has long, straight boulevards and the trams seem to mostly have their own RoW. They looked really sleek, zipping along and my perception was they were a fast way to get about town.
7:43 This happened ALL THE TIME at Main Street-Danforth. Worse still there, that station is a terminus for 506, and isn't even *on* Danforth Avenue; it's behind a bunch of storefronts on the residential north end of Main.
About the door buttons; Here in Berlin Trams used to only unlock the doors (apart from busier stops), but that was changed in 2020 to reduce contact surfaces and spread of COVID-19.
You should note that the buttons to open the doors from the inside are also stop request buttons. Given how rare stop skipping is, can you see how a tourist using them system might not be aware that it has request stopping?
I remember the first time I was on a streetcar in Toronto where the driver had to get out and manually switch the tracks. I thought I'd traveled back in time.
The traffic signal system in Toronto is the first thing they should work on changing. This system alone can solve a huge number of traffic issues Toronto streets have right now. The traffic lights are just so inefficient everywhere it's painful to drive/ride around with.
I lived in Toronto in years 2014-19. I remember well how I was annoyed how slow streetcars were as they had no dedicated lanes. I must say screens in upcoming stops and connections are useful. I live in Switzerland and such information is very useful. Also, app for transit is very useful with information about connections. But still, I appreciated TTC.
Man, You really said a mouthful there! And you were spot-on with every last one of your suggestions! I've been riding the Red Rocket for 70 years and I'm sure I've written 70 letters to the TTC. On a rare occasion I might get some sort of lame response and the streetcars just keep rolling along, rattling through the intersections. You do know your stuff, having been in most places that have transit. I wonder if the brain trust at the TTC can say as much. I'd really like to know if anyone there is listening to people like you! Leo
hi i'm from melbourne and i gotta say, only our modern trams have LCD's, and the vast majority of our tram stops do not have level boarding but thanks for giving us a mention! ps i would love another video on our suburban rail loop, the last one got deleted tysm!
I had no idea the Toronto Streetcars were this bad, but this would explain why I only used them once on 2 visits Toronto, whist I used the Subway on many occassions! Just seems like there is so many basic improvements that they can make.
I think this video just hilights the entire problem with the TTC street cars: 1) the center islands are dangerous 2) the rail switching is overtly complex and slow 3) wayfinding is just assumed to be common knowledge as a TTC rider. The street cars never deviate in stops only frequency. Like it seems to me the most logical solution is rather to double the street car network , and alternate one-way roads. eg have roads and tracks going north every second road, so cars can turn right, but the trams are on the left-side, so they load from the sidewalk. The south bound works the same. No left turns. Do the same for east and west. Hard to describe this in it's entirety, but basically what Victoria BC does with the downtown bus network on the one-way streets. This would remove the need for the majority of the switches because if a diversion is necessary, stop the train, go across the block and get on the next one. Then just leave the train on the track until the diversion is cleared or it can be moved to the terminus. On the other hand, a lot of transit is in for a penny, in for a pound, and having any engineering changes is likely to not happen, and as we've seen with the RT, the TTC would rather destroy something than fix it.
The TTC used to have both maps and schedules on bus stop signage in the early 2000s. I'm not sure when it went away, probably sometime around the explosion of smartphone ownership, but I have a suspicion the real reason its gone is so that nobody knows when the routes are late. The current signs just show you a phone number to text to find out how long until the next ride instead of...y'know, a useful schedule.
They got rid of it a few years ago back in 2016 in one of the most mind boggling decisions they've ever made. They did it to save under a million dollars a year in printing costs.
As a frequent user of the 504 line, the most egregious stop spacing has got to be Jefferson and Joe Shuster, the stops are literally less than the length of two streetcars apart.
Many insightful points! I do have a very specific suggestion on how to fix a really bad choke point on the Dundas streetcar line as it passes eastbound over the DVP. When they added bike lanes to Dundas, they basically took a whole lane in each direction, leaving a single lane for cars and streetcars to share. This causes a significant delay for both drivers and streetcar passengers when eastbound vehicles have to wait for a gap to turn left onto the ramp to the northbound DVP. There are several potential workarounds to this, but I think the most effective would be to narrow the current generously-wide bike lanes (just for the section over the bridge) and add a hardened barrier to protect cyclists. This would free up enough space for three lanes of traffic across the bridge. If they then realigned the streetcar tracks and through lanes to run on the outer two of the three lanes, the middle lane could be a long left turn lane where cars could wait for a gap without delaying eastbound streetcars and other vehicles. Cyclists would likely have to refrain from passing other cyclists on the bridge, but that would be a small price to pay for better traffic flow and has the bonus of better protection for cyclists if a hardened barrier was added.
I see you love Australian rail... would be awesome to see a video about the only state without a passenger rail and why they are ripping it up: Tasmania and the narrow gauge
Great job! You should make sure that everyone on the TTC board watches this. Maybe they would learn something 🤦 I'd also like to add that a lot of advanced green signals that are active during weekday rush hour traffic are disabled on weekends when we need them the most.
My visit in 2007 (a long time ago) I used the subway more than the streetcars, and when I did use a street car it was to get to a subway station, or Union Station since my hotel was a short walk away (no, not the Fairmont). I did love the look of the old streetcars, and I loved the clean subway with padded seats (I’m from NYC, you want a subway car with padded seats, it’s in the transit museum. Later when I went to London I was amazed at not only the padded seats on the Underground, but they have armrests!)
I was in Toronto to see blink 182 for their first show there. When I on wheel trans ( at least one of the taxis the tcc contracts ) I saw a street car getting worked on because a wheel fell off 😂
I don't take the Street Car often, but I think the issue is more of an expectation thing. For example, I'll often take the King Street Car. Yet I always have that internal debate on if I should walk, bike share, or street car. The Streetcar though just never seems to come. I know it says the frequency is 5 minutes, but it's never there. So I always just do a thing where if I see it coming, I'll take it. Beyond that, I'll just go another way. I'd love to take it. They're great vehicles.
Funny you should mention the how closely spaced the stops on the 510 Spadina Street Car are through the University of Toronto. I remember the “community consultation” that created this feature. All it takes are a dedicated group of people who have the time and ability to influence such meetings, like University educated people. The rebuilding of the streetcar route was facing strong headwinds with its dedicated right-of-way from shop owners who use frequent truck and van deliveries. The TTC needed consensus and two added stops at Wilcox and Sussex streets was the price along with no barriers to motor vehicles driving over the tracks. After completion curbs to keep private motor vehicles off the tracks were added after one too many accidents.
Another interesting solution to the left turn problem is the Michigan left. Pretty much, on major roadways, those wanting to make a left turn must first turn right, then turn left on a u-turn, hook connector thing to the lane in the opposite direction and then they turn left out of that and go straight and are on their way. One left = right + left + left
I still remember (many many years ago) the first time I was on a TTC streetcar that was diverted and the driver got that 1.5m metal bar out to switch tracks (iirc it was the College car and it had to turn down Ossington for a detour of some kind, could have been a short turn though who knows). I was baffled that the driver had to keep such a device on hand and a little confused about why everyone on the streetcar had to wait for this to happen. Thank you for elucidating this "oddity" and the many other quirks in the streetcar network (among all your other videos!) Can also confirm my experience with the new streetcars that all the doors always open, and every time I've pressed the outer button thinking to myself "oh I'd better press it, in case they aren't all opening", only to see all the other doors open too 🙃
The capital of Poland called warsaw has a better street car and transport facility than Toronto and the guy explained all the small solutions in this video. I guess TTC should hear this carefully and start to improve their services for their own commuters.
100% agree with the Wayfinding signage (or should I say LACK of signage) throughout most of the network and more specifically the surface routes. The biggest issue is the designers never look at the lowest level of User, but more the highest level. They don't consider the infrequent User (such as myself or even Tourist). I understand that a lot of people use Apps, but TTC needs to provide much better at point wayfinding.
Here in Budapest, we only have dual-point switches, many of which have to be regually thrown manually. This doesn't cause a problem, spring systems help drivers use the switch, so this is an easily debunkable excuse.
Yes, the TTC also has many dual-point streetcar switches (in yards). They are fine in snow, and they can be thrown manually if they fail. The TTC has no problem with dual-point switches.
Toronto does love it's streetcar network. St Clair, Spadina and Queensway/Lake shore which is the 501 Queen streetcar network have segregated right of way lanes. They're safe from traffic delays and passengers can safely board them on the streetcar islands. Yes Melbourne Australia 🦘 has a streetcar/tram network and better level boarding.
Roncesvalles Avenue, where the 504A runs, as bump out into the curb lane, raised boarding platforms. But I can't recall if they're level boarding or not.
Not the Lake Shore, just the Queensway between the Humber Loop and about Parkside Drive, is median-running. The New Toronto stretch of Lake Shore (at the numbered streets) has a bunch of enhanced stops at least.
@@sblack53 For others reading these comments, these enhanced stops are streetcar islands, which allow passengers to safely wait next to the streetcar lane, protected by a concrete wedge & canopy. As a Lakeshore resident, we need more of these, as these islands are sporadic. Unofficially, I've heard that the City plans to install more such islands at major, busy intersections on Lake Shore Blvd W, such as at Kipling, Islington.
Great channel you're running here. I grew up in Toronto and rode the streetcars many times, mainly the PCOs with their rattling wheels and the new ones they introduced in the early eighties. As a lover of all things on rails it saddens me that these new multicar streetcars, introduced long after I left the city, have their wheels and bogies completely covered making them look too futuristic as if they're pretending to be hovering or something. Aerodynamics can't be a reason as even Japan's Bullitt trains display their bogies so I guess it down to health and safety. I loved those rattling wheels with their axles supported inside the bogies. The newer cars introduced in the early eighties had train-like bogies with the wheels partly covered by the former and they didn't rattle over switches, etc but they did thump over bumps and a remember articles in the Toronto Sun complaining about the noise they made and damage to roadways. At the same time these were introduced the TTC began rebuilding/modernizing the tracks, setting them in concrete as opposed to them simply being in asphalt or cobblestones. I've always wondered why they all have green lights and the front.
as someone who recently moved to Toronto, i can definitely say the wayfinding on TTC needs big improvements. the subway isn't too hard to figure out but I could never find my way by bus or streetcar without third-party apps (and with Rocketman shutting down, that's about to get harder)
Try to find one of the big TTC maps that's overlaid onto a street map. Makes it a lot easier. Also, you'll just get used to it in time. It's good to remember that since most of the city is straight lines, our routes are also mainly straight lines.
The abundance of turning tracks where streetcar lines intersect is a symptom of the failure to prioritize streetcar service. The TTC has fallen in love with short turns as a means of dealing with bunching rather than addressing core issues that are mentioned here with track switches and intersection & signal prioritization for the streetcars.
imo a diversion is better than a replacement bus but also - the tube doesn't use buttons. most trains arent fitted with them, some trains fitted with them have them disabled (northern/jubilee) and the sub surface stock only uses them at long stops when the doors close again but Arnet locked because the train is sitting
I was just in TO and took the 504 King, I eventually had to ask someone on the street what streetcar I had to go on because nothing was clear at all. A bus would have been just as easy however there is something to say about taking a streetcar. If Edmonton every gets it’s Valley line open the new Flexity freedom cars will be a great addition but for now it’s been delayed AGAIN due to major defects in the support piers on the large elevated section, sigh
Having ridden the 'T' Green Line surface routes in Boston my suggestion to best improve TTC streetcar service is provide signal priority for the streetcars and ban or restrict traffic on the streetcar routes
It’s funny because in Amsterdam trams still use the metal bar to sometimes switch lanes. It usually happens in intersections where they can’t close it off for repairs.
great video. I'm from Hamilton and I'm really hoping we can get some of these ideas right with our forthcoming LRT system. unfortunately we, like Toronto, have an addiction with high speed traffic flow so...
TTC operations make streetcar experience even worse. I often take the TTC during the peak hours, and they make unscheduled short turns to 'better separate' a bunch of streetcars that got stacked because of various reasons (i.e., their first one is just LATE). And if you are unlucky, they may short turn 3 to 5 streetcars in a row, making you stand outside in the rain, cold or extreme weather conditions. If you have already waited to get on the streetcar in the first place, the short turn is even more annoying. Often times, the streetcar you then get on, is also busy. You may not even get on.
Visited Toronto beginning of September. Took Spadina streetcar knowing it would take a bit to get to Union for my Via train. It ended up shortstopping beforehand (near Queen's Quay I think?). I was cutting it close, so thankfully rebooked my Via ticket last minute so I didn't lose all my money. Decided to stay on it and head up to an actual stop and got on another 510 Union.... just for it to shortstop again. There was no clear indicator that these streetcars were not going to bring me all the way to Union, even if that was the "direction" it was going. Luckily got there after getting on the 512 to Union station. Still pissed me off to no end.
The door buttons is really perplexing, they should be used as designed but as of now they're used as secondary stop request buttons. Also, not just London Underground, most European metros I've taken have used door buttons or even old fashioned leavers (older Berlin trains) to open doors.
They've always been a stop request button. They function practically the same as the other stop request buttons on the streetcar... They open the door when the door is in "open as required" mode. And only opens the nearest door to the button you press. In this case, the buttons on the door itself will always open that door. Also, the buttons on the doors are the only buttons with lights on them. If you see the lights around the door button lit up, it means that door SHOULD open when the streetcar stops and the operator sets the door to open. This is even if NOBODY actually pressed the button on the door itself.
@@zeighy Exactly. The buttons on the TTC streetcars are actually quite well designed. Unlike the doors on trains here in the Netherlands. Here the button just ignores you unless the doors are already unlocked, resulting in wasted time after the conductor unlocks them. In Toronto the button actually remembers that you've pressed the button (or someone in that unit has requested the stop) and it opens as soon as the operator unlocks the doors.
@@RMTransit Speaking of stop request, is it true that the transit city system is all all stopper, without stop request buttons? If so, they might as well open their doors at all stops for accessibility.
Regarding the disruptions to streetcar services right now, it's chaotic because most of the lines are getting some much needed repairs to the tracks. Yeah, they need to make signage of how to get to the detour better. I had so many people asking me on the street how to get to X road, where the rerouted stop was.
For the Melbourne tram transit, we do also have announcements that include that there would be a train route nearby, a different tram route, which direction it will go it etcetera.
I'm a Canadian who lived in Toronto for 8 years. I recently returned to visit the City. Stopped at the corner of Queen and Broadview, waiting for the streetcar I know so well, I realized I no longer had a PRESTO card. I tried for 15 minutes to google how to pay for the streetcar without one, and I couldn't figure it out. I'm sure there's an answer, but I didn't find it. I couldn't remember if you could pay with another form of payment once boarding, but everything I googled suggested you couldn't. So I abandoned the idea.
Downtown during rush hour, you can actually walk as fast as the streetcar. The subway is way better, and our whole system would be amazing if all the streetcars were underground.
Toronto is in a competition to remain the Stoopidest City in the world and they've won it each year for a very long time but they don't want anyone to sneak up on them to steal that much-coveted title.
During the peak of the Covid pandemic, Zurich tram drivers would open all doors so people wouldn't touch the buttons. However, under normal circumstances, almost all public transport vehicles in Switzerland use the door buttons with doors that close automatically after a few seconds (most also have infrared sensors to reset the timer when someone walks through, older vehicles have pressure plates in the floor). Even the new Stadler high speed trains operate like this.
In a lot of streets tram tracks can become green tracks which do not need to be shared with cars. It also helps to keep the climate in the city moderate.
For heating/cooling issues in buses at least where I live the bus drivers only open the doors that need to be opened and if no one is exiting then only the front door is opened since that one is dedicated for entering and all others are for exiting. So let's say 4th door gets opened only cuz someone is exiting only there also our drivers love to skip stops fully if it looks like no one will get off or on.
Skipping empty stops isn't a unique thing. Busses in my town do it all the time and then theres the small branch line railways with request stops that are just train versions of bus stops.
At Broadview, because their service is so shitty and unpredictable, and the station can only fit 2 streetcars (per bay), you'll often have streetcars parked in middle of the street, blocking the lane, waiting to squeeze into the station - with the passengers still inside! I was once stuck there for almost 10 minutes, just sitting meters away from station, but unable to exit the streetcar, just wasting everyone's time. These streetcars seem too long for our streets, I know its too late to do anything about it. They are long, but they feel more cramped than the old ones, and they dont seem to fit that much more people.
Either have streetcars on separate lanes/areas. Or don't have them at all. I lived in Toronto and I thought the only reason 'the Rocket' was still going was some silly, sentimental blather. The new streetcars, ARE cool looking though. Like your channel. ☮
I always wonder why leading left turns are almost always used in Canada, while lagging left turns are actually slightly more efficient at moving traffic?
The route numbers arrived with the previous generation of streetcars, which didn't support separate names for route and destination. Back then, scrolls were used for the displays.
Using transit around Toronto is great if you already know where you are, where you're going and how to get there. But wayfinding as an outsider is incredibly difficult, and it feels as though the TTC is at best oblivious to making things better, or at worst doing it intentionally.
@Emilie Hurst I have never seen a Toronto bus stop that doesn't list the route and have a phone number you can text for to the minute updates on arrivals.
The fact that they got rid of East/West and replaced it with Kennedy /Kipling is infuriating.
It's a huge problem and there doesn't feel like a clear strategy to make it better!
@@danadavis1754 texting is not a good alternative, if you can text a number you can most likely look up the route online anyway. they should list at least some basic information about the routes on the bus stops.
@@woaitsbren texting is much better bc it gives you more accurate information on when the streetcar is coming then maps or a paper sign.
omg yes! This video was so great. I've so often said that Toronto's streetcar network should be so much better than it is! It boggles my mind how slow a streetcar can be, even along a dedicated route like Spadina.
It's crazing coming from Europe - literally anywhere in Europe - and going to Toronto, and seeing the difference in speed. If I'm in, say, Amsterdam or Berlin, my tram is almost never going to stop, unless it's at a station. It's hella fast.
In almost any other city, the tram network is the high-speed, high-capacity network, that is often _faster_ than taking the metro, because the stops are at ground level and often closer to your origin and destination. But in Toronto, the streetcars are seen as some kind of "inferior metro" that everybody wants to replace with a subway. Why are the King and Dundas streetcars not already a "Yonge relief line"? They could be, if it were as fast and efficient as trams are in other cities.
I really wish that instead of focusing so much on subways (which are great, don't get me wrong), Toronto would bring its streetcar network up to international standards. That alone could bring high-speed reliable rapid transit to literally hundreds of thousands of Torontonians, and it could be done within months or a few years, instead of decades.
Just generally letting what we have whither and focusing on something new and shiny is a problem for the ages! Especially because fixing old stuff is usually pretty cheap compared to building new!
I'm surprised you weren't disappointed in Basel, we have the slowest trams in Europe, and we can't rip out stops because, well good luck removing stops.
Highest stop density is a bit of a problem here.
That's just not true. You should stop praising all of Europe as this great public transport utopia, because it's just not true as universally as you put it. Just took the Berlin tram yesterday and got stopped like 10 times over a distance of three stops because of traffic and traffic lights. It was horribly slow, and that on an important connection (Nordbahnhof to Hauptbahnhof).
isnt it a nightmare for bikes?
@@jeycalc6877 Not if you live in the Netherlands since I don't think any tramroute runs on a bicycleroute. If anything they are parallel traffic to the station, so there's no logical reason why you would organise it like that.
My main gripes:
1) The streetcar stops to pick up/dropoff passangers after a street light. Which means, it often gets stuck at a red light, goes through the intersection, just to stop again.
2) When stopped at an intersection red light, cars turning left with an advanced get the right of way before the streetcar, which means 1-5 cars with typically 1 person in the car get the right of way over potentially 100 passangers in the street car.
I think fixing both would dramatically increase speed and allow streetcars to have an advantage over passanger vehicles.
The other way can be annoying too for #1 though, there's buses which will stop to pick up and drop off people, and by the time they're done, the light goes back to red, meaning extra wait on the stop. The main issue here is the lack of priority signals to let transit through.
The stops are mixed between nearside and farside, both have their issues and advantages!
And in Melbourne they don't let drives park next to a stopped tram. Cops enforce that. Combined with the "tram stops before the light not after" and cars basically get an "retarded stop light"... the effective red light is behind the tram not besie it.
It's a well known problem that stopping before the light encourages the dropped off passengers to cross in front of the tram/bus that is trying to leave, leading to safety issues (and/or for the driver having to wait for all of them). Or maybe passengers might even intentionally rush in front of a vehicle that is about to depart in order to force the driver to wait for them.
Whereas stopping right after a light means that late passengers know that running around behind the vehicle will mean they'll still catch it. And dropped off passengers will cross the street behind the vehicle that dropped them off where they won't get in its way.
I think stopping right after a light (or intersection) is ideal, but any tram (or bus) on a dedicated lane should get prioritized (getting signal priority).
Of course, this won't work for trams that drop passengers off in the middle of traffic (unless the signal phasing can keep vehicles from turning into the leg of the intersection that the tram is stopped in).
The problem isn't nearside or farside, the problem are dumb traffic lights. All street car systems around where I live (Germany) use mostly directly opposing platforms, which means it is always farside for one direction and nearside for the other. Both can work perfectly with the streetcar never at a red light, and both can be messed up, sometimes on the same route.
It’s interesting because the same fiscally conservative “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” mentality that led to Toronto mostly keeping a perfectly adequate streetcar network during a time when other cities were ripping them out in preparation for the newest futuristic rubber tire buses has also been the same mentality that has made Toronto hesitant to change the streetcar in any drastic way that would lead to them having better service (like an abundance of dedicated travel lanes when there are only a few along the network)
Yep definitely to an extent!
It's also a stubborn reluctance to look at other cities and learn from their example. To anyone who has visited Berlin or Tokyo, it should be obvious that Toronto needs to integrate TTC and GO into a single system, yet this idea remains controversial, even with ostensibly "progressive" city councillors
@@pangerme the problem is that the city doesn’t trust the province to run transit in a way that would be useful for the city.
Yes this has traditionally been the culture of Toronto staff/politicians. The running joke is "the only way to convince Toronto to do something is to demonstrate that they are literally the last place on the planet which hasn't done it yet".
Fortunately this has been changing in recent years, and Toronto has become much more willing to innovate.
@@RMTransityou’re a bobble head
Some excellent points… a few years ago, the biggest priority was “we need low floor streetcars” - and all these small things got brushed under the rug. Now, let’s get on it!
Yeah that's how it feels, we need to get on with fixing other and multiple things!
I mean low floor streetcars were an AODA imperative.
@@RMTransit just the bare minimum was provided not even a wooden ramp at the front of the tram at busier stops for wheelchairs and other mobility devices
@@sblack53 yes, but also the older unreliable streetcars needed replacing - and a billion dollar order does distract from the issues that Reece raises!
Living in Sydney, I’m surprised that Toronto hasn’t done more to make their trams/light rail a higher priority. Sydney has excellent wayfinding signs and just decided to remove cars from a section of the road where they run alongside the Light Rail.
That especially applies to George St in Sydney, which is one of the main N-S routes. This street is really too narrow to have trams and cars together, so the tram-only section (more than a km) has virtually no cars and has become much more pleasant. BTW, Sydney trams also have a weird 5-way (sort of) intersection at the exit ramp from Central station, which has to deal with cars, trams, pedestrians, and buses. It is truly "interesting", especially on a bike. I hope they gave the people who had to program it a nice holiday afterwards :-).
North America, even places like Toronto, are still ruled by the car. So little is being done to prioritize other modes of transport. Toronto was making some attempts, but Rob Ford basically rolled a lot of that back. A lot has to do with the way the city is governed. What you think of as Toronto is actually an amalgamation of of multiple cities that had a shotgun wedding by Conservatives around 25 years ago. The end result is that Toronto "proper" has little say over what goes on and a lot of stuff is decided by basically suburban dwellers who value the car above all else.
They definitely do! Sydney does wayfinding really well! It's likely complacency! When you build it new you care more!
@@RMTransit To be fair, the Sydney new tram line is brand-new so they can adopt many new features from the get-go.
Sydney's tram is so slow. Understandable in George St as it is now pedestrianised (30kph is plenty, I don't know what speed it actually goes tho but Bourke St Mall in Melb is 30kph). But once off George St it remains tediously slower than it should be - pushbikes overtake the tram in many places!
Some thoughts as someone who lives in Melbourne:
- In Melbourne the latest trams have onboard LCD way-finding. The latest generation trams in Melbourne are part of the flexity family so there is no reason it shouldn't be able to be added to Toronto's fleet.
- Also when there is a branch the overhead voice announces which way the tram will turn which again show it's possible for Toronto.
- As to manually thrown switches Melbourne has progressively phased them out. I remember as a child when seeing the driver get out to throw the points was quite common and now I don't think I've seen it in years.
- I think you are overemphasising the stops in Melbourne. Firstly for terminology, the level boarding stops in Melbourne are called super stops. The vast majority of tram stops in Melbourne are not super stops. They are just a metal sign post with a green sign just like in Toronto. What Melbourne has done is strategically build them at the busiest stops which is something Toronto could learn from. At 4:26 you show Swantson street in the centre of the CBD with 8 routes going though that single stop. At 16:07 you show there the 109 tram stops at North Richmond Station. Both of those are busy stops. For contract my local tram stop is no different to a basic suburban bus stop but almost no one gets on or off there.
Melbourne trams are just great! LCD signs at some stops are a really nice touch. The PA announcements are really useful.
It seems that even our most basic stops in Melbourne seem to be better than the normal ones in Toronto.
The Toronto ones seem to often be nothing more some metal signs attached to whatever is already there. The most basic ones in Melbourne get their own pole with the consistent signage and slots for changing out and adding info, which is super important for people to physically find the stops and for Yarra Trams to put up info about changes etc.
Great points, having a superstop equivalent in TO would make a ton of sense, that's why I mention phasing something in! Start with the busiest stations and dedicated right of way routes first!
Yeah, the Melbourne trams have good stops in the CBD
Toronto's streetcars are fully capable of announcing when they are turning onto a branch or diverting off route, however, it is not automatic and therefore inconsistent. I take the 504 almost daily and some cars do announce "this vehicle will turn right, to distillery" and display on screen "this vehicle will turn to distillery" as it is approaching the stop before the turn-off, unfortunately, it seems many drivers forget to trigger the announcement or don't set up the system correctly to do it automatically. Also this announcement only works on the distillery branch, vehicles continuing to Broadview station do not have any announcement at all. Over the last 2 years, there has not once been a single day where there isn't some sort of diversion on the 504 due to track replacement or water main replacements so the lack of these announcements is extremely frustrating especially when there are so many diversions that at one point all 504 cars started displaying just 504 King on the destination board. like where are you going? are you going to broadview, the distillery or are you gonna turnback at church? it honestly felt like even the drivers didn't know where they were going until they got there.
While some of the complaints about the streetcars are justified and backed up by data, some are simply subjective and circumstantial. A good example is when they repaired the tracks on Queen Street, they replaced the routes with buses. People were happy how much faster the buses were compared to the streetcars, and a petition actually started to keep the buses and get rid of the streetcars over it. The TTC however, were confused. All their data was showing that the buses were actually SLOWER than the streetcars, route times were worse. What? It turns out, buses are perceptually faster. In that, because they jostle and bump and bang the rider around, it actually feels like the bus is going faster, breaking hard and weaving in and out of traffic. The streetcars actually were faster, but their smooth rides and smooth acceleration/braking meant that they felt slower. Which is often touted as an advantage of streetcars. But they "feel" slow so people just assume they are actually going slower, when they aren't.
They are definitely slow a lot of the time though!
No matter how you put it. Buses are way faster than street cars. Having ridden both regularly. Bus will get you there faster.
@@hassaniqbal1081 you are victim of a cognitive bias. The data and statistics disagree with you. Streetcars are faster than buses.
@@hassaniqbal1081 but 1 streetcar moves more people than a bus. I dont know how a bus stuck in the same bumper to bumper traffic on Queen is faster than a streetcar.
@@hassaniqbal1081 Running less often and carrying less people.
An example of a small thing that got fixed relatively recently - putting streetcars on the Subway map!
Yes that is a good change imo, implementation could be better
You never mentioned the dreaded "short turn". The worst is when they decide to short turn ~after~ you get on the streetcar. All of a sudden you're dumped in the middle of nowhere, in a -25C snowstorm, the next three trains are also short turning and you suddenly realize if you'd have started walking when you were discharged 45 minutes ago, you'd be at the coffee shop warming up by now.
Ha, ha, ha!:- welcome to Toronto, the brain-deadest place on Planet Earth! There's also "Not in Service" which is a secret destination which is very popular with TTC drivers:- I tried to hide behind a seat once to go there but drivers ruthlessly search for passengers trying to sneak into "Not in Service" and will sternly order you off the vehicle! After awhile you become quite good at guessing which vehicle will short-turn:- traffic congestion often results in "convoys" of trams trundling along so you usually skip the first one which is packed and then the emptier second one which is most likely to short-turn and take the third one. Other fun things to do in Toronto is waiting at Queen and Yonge for a westbound Queen car at 200 am which is running well behind despite no traffic and watching big fat raccoons waddling about going from restaurant to restaurant. Btw, locals will tell you that "TTC" really stands for "Take The Car"! The best part about going to Toronto is coming back! 😄
As a tourist travelling in Toronto, I was completely perplexed by how many versions of "Route 504" there were. I had a hard time looking for the tram to catch but eventually had to change to another route at an intersection to get to where I wanted. It would be more reasonable if one numbering represents one single route only.
Well having A and B routes is not unusual, but the numbering is confusing yeah
I do agree that suffixes can make sense, but not on 3 digit routes. With 3 digits to work with, you could use a numbering scheme where 500 is one route, and 501-509 are used to denote branching services on that route. Same for 510-519, 520-529, ... In other words, the second digit denotes up to 10 different corridors and the singles digit can denote up to 10 different branching routes on that corridor.
If you have more than 10 streetcar corridors, then 505-509 can be a different route than 500-504. (Potentially even starting the numbers at 509 and moving towards 505, for more distinction between the numbers and more space to grow one route beyond what would currently be an "E" suffix.
If that isn't enough then the 400s, 600s 700s and 800s seem to be available, too.
With that you can have route 500 be the first one on a certain corridor, and 600, 700 and 800 splitting off from that corridor.
Same for 584 splitting into 684 784 and so on. 100 different tram routes with up to 4 branches.
It's less confusing when you live here. The 504 goes along King and the letter basically represent how far along king the streetcar goes.
@@adorabell4253 At least if you also don't have a learning disability.
One of the biggest reasons trams are taken out of service is to repair doors. Door buttons greatly reduce the number of times doors open or close and thus the frequency of repairs. Passenger comfort is a second reason for working door buttons. As is so often the case, transit operators need to look to Germany and learn.
Door buttons are used on trains in Melb (older trains have to be manually slid open, once the driver realeases the central locks!) but trams the doors are there but they're only used for reopening, initially all doors are opened.
@@peterhoz I wonder, however, if opening all doors even at minor stops is more accessible. Perhaps it would be better to make the door mechanisms more reliable.
Reece mentions that level boarding is more accessible, but perhaps Toronto should also have compulsory (not request) stopping on dedicated rights of way as this is also more accessible. Have you ever seen visually impaired people miss their stop because they thought there were people waiting at it but no one was?
At least in Frankfurt, Asian tourists might just stand in front of the door when the door button glows green instead of pressing the button to open it. Consider that before looking to Germany. Gothenburg, Sweden, also gets really cold winters and yet door buttons on trams there are not used much more often than in Melbourne.
And here I thought Toronto's streetcars were the cat's meow (as someone who hasn't been on a streetcar in about 20 years!). Thanks for pointing out areas public transit can be made so much better.
That's it! Sometimes when you get used to something it gets hard to see the problems!
@@RMTransit or it is the other way round, where you start only seeing the negative. Some cities have good transit, but people complain as if it was outrageously bad.
I read cats meow then my cat meowed outside of my bedroom that was weird
walking faster than the streetcars isn't always a joke... there has been many times where I've walked 40 mins home without being passed by a streetcar
Yep, I've been there. I'd keep looking down the street to see if the street car was coming and not one would come by before I would get to my destination.
@@mikem.2688 And if you're left walking after getting off a short turned streetcar it hurts even more, like why did I pay a fare to go 3 stops and why did the next 3 vehicles also short turn, I just wanna get home😭😭
This couldn't be closer to the truth. I took a streetcar from U of T (cause why not, I'm a transit enthusiast) to Union to catch a bus home. My commute caused me to miss not one, but two buses out of Union thanks to slow traffic, construction, not knowing where the platform was (I grew up near Toronto, so I wasn't a total stranger to how the TTC worked), and a bunch of redirections. Toronto needs to really step their game up and fix this system. Even as a frequent commuter, it's hella confusing.
@@cmmartti Yep you're right
That would be the cursed Spadina streetcar I assume?
Yep, even locals get lost sometimes!
@@RMTransit Lost?!:- let me tell you about the poor old lady who was walking to get groceries in Brooklyn back in 1976 when she was young but she was abducted by UFOs but she put up such a fuss that by the time they flew over Toronto they tossed her overboard and fortunately she landed in a tree but her head got bumped a little and caused permanent amnesia. She climbed down but found that living in Toronto is like living in a big cemetery full of zombies with their heads stuck up their arses and she could never find her way to the 1930s Art Deco intercity bus station on Bay St to get back to Brooklyn so she spent the rest of her life riding on Toronto streetcars talking to herself in a Brooklyn accent. This is a true urban myth!
Well, now you learned that if you wanna get to Union Station, subway over streetcar anyday.😊
Spadina line: last time I used it, going north, despite the line having dedicated lanes - it took longer to get me where I was going than walking the day before had. Because the streetcars spend so much time stopped at lights. If you're going to have streetcars, they should have priority over car traffic.
I agree!
Spadina could also just not have a light every 5 meters. WE have waaaay too many street lights in this city.
Interesting. Here in Germany, there's a specific traffic sign for transit stops [technically, bus or tram stops on a street] - a green H in a green circle on a yellow background, "Zeichen 224". (There are some variations, but they're easily recognizable as such.) The idea seems to be that it's something traffic, in general, ought to be aware of, not just passengers.
Also U and S sign are same everywhere, make it very easy to find stations
Thanks Reece. Sadly I agree with EVERYTHING you say. To be honest, in many of the high density downtown streetcar routes, there should be NO car traffic at all. Just delivery trucks, Taxi and emergency vehicles. And enforcement is key
I think it's worth mentioning that when the King right of way was first introduced, it was enforced very aggressively. There were police cars prowling the area and pulling people over frequently. This proved to be *incredibly* unpopular and the pushback pretty much killed enforcement.
It's still fairly effective but yeah, not good!
@@RMTransit I do wonder if compliance would be better if they updated the traffic lights to provide dedicated transit signals and only show turn arrows for regular traffic.
@@rantingrodent416 probably.
The King Street project is still a joke. Streetcars are still running at random times. Before you could get a cab if you need to get somewhere quick and if the “next streetcar” on the app tells you it’s gonna be 25mins but now the cabbies don’t come down King Street anymore.
@@Kalicious79 it was like clockwork until the construction on king started. Should be fine again after that’s done. It’s a complete mess right now though
Long, long ago, in what feels like a galaxy far, far away, the streetcar drivers used to sing out the stops and mention any connecting routes (bus, streetcar, or subway).
The streetcar network is a straight mess that's for sure. On portions of the routes that go through the core, they really should consider removing cars all together and making those streets pedestrian and transit only streets (of course with exceptions to emergency vehicles). For example, if they really want King street to come to life, they need to remove the cars, add some interlocking paving stones, and create a streetcar/bus right of way. That way it becomes a street for pedestrians, and transit/emergency vehicles can actually get through and provide good service. That last thought on the city of Toronto was also good. They can implement these policies all they want, but they mean practically nothing if they aren't enforced. Great video sir!
Thanks! I will say King St. Restrictions have already drastically reduced traffic though!
Melbourne has a simple solution for the streetcar merging onto the street problem which doesn't require signal priority: the tram has priority and cars have to give way.
The best thing about the new TO streetcars is the colour scheme. The red and white looks great. The new trams for the Crosstown and Finch lines would be wise to follow suite.
The real big problem with the new Toronto trams is that the headlights look like the headlights on a bus. All trams around the world should by law have 3 headlights only. A big one in the middle and 2 smaller ones on the side, round of course. No squarepants headlights. That way, we can easily see them coming from way off, and 3 headlights are just aesthetically better and give trams the traditional tram look.
Also, the windows don't open so you can't really sit and enjoy the ride wirh your arm hanging out like in the old days. Old school trams will always be the best trams.
I'm from the UK. I have ridden the Toronto trams a couple of times as a tourist, not long before the high floor ones got retired (I tried both old and new). The biggest thing I noticed was having to walk into the middle of the street, through traffic, to board the tram. That felt very unsafe and third-world to me. In London, the Croydon tram network has proper stops with shelters for every stop. Also the lack of dedicated right of ways seems a bit silly. Finally, as you mentioned, the wayfinding is awful. The stops are really hard to notice if you don't know what you're looking for, and the route numbering system is complicated. It was also difficult to know when you should get off the tram. Most of these things shouldn't be that hard/expensive to fix really.
I have been on London Transit , way too expensive for the average person , also the tube is way too cramped and not great headroom .
@@Jay-vr9ir You're not wrong about it being cramped and the no headroom. Something to do with the fact that a) it's popular, and b) the tunnels were built a very long time ago, when people were shorter and tunnelling was very expensive. It's very hard to fix that, but it's not nearly as hard for Toronto to fix it's streetcar network. Also, London transit is not "way too expensive of the average person". TFL records 8 million journeys per day in a metro area of 9.5 million people. I would say that illustrates that the average person can, and does afford it on a regular basis.
@@mdhazeldine PT is ridiculously expensive in the UK compared to comparative cities/countries. Just because millions of people are forced to pay it doesn't change the fact.
@@shaunmckenzie5509 I agree that it's expensive, but it's not so expensive that people choose not to pay or can't pay, mainly because driving is even more expensive and difficult.
Everything you were saying about track maintenance suggests that the decision was made that keeping a particular population of workers / contracting firms happy was more important than keeping riders happy.
For a very long time the city + TTC purposely went with cheaper construction for track installation.. not sure if we're fully done replacing all of those tracks now that we've finally switched to construction that lasts much longer.
8:50 I've always disliked this about the Streetcar and BRT routes in the GTA why does the bus have to wait for the cars and the trucks to complete their left turn? Just have the transit signal on first then the left turn.
Delays the cycle, which means it's unpopular
Because GTA prioritizes cars over transit.
Transit can always be improved - but the biggest improvement would always be to limit the ability of cars to use downtown streets. The congestion is the number one cause of delays for buses and streetcars.
Yeah its the cars. Im thinking around st. james park is a glaring example of pointless cars that cant stop just pass through, so business along this road only serve foot traffic but all the foot traffic at the park is blocked by the road. So these cars just passing through hurt the economy, and ruin the health - pollution of the area. Just to get cars out of downtown, maybe some kind of underground road or overpass is the only way and shut off most access to dowtown via car and just watch business explode. And with all these condos, its really the only way to make living outside these buildings bearable - more pedestrian/friendly only areas.
Wish you spent more time on eliminating stops! I have always wondered why we don't have 'express routes', at least during rush hour. Why the 504 needs to stop at almost every block (Spadina, Peter, John, etc.) at any time, let alone 8am, has always baffled me.
The idea of naming the streetcars routes T1, T2 etc is simple yet so essential. I have taken the numbers 501 etc for granted without imaging what visitors to the city experience navigating the network.
I am moving to Toronto in a month. I understand that things could be better, do better. BUT HONESTLY, my country has the worst transit system, don't even get me started! HAHA. So for me look it looks amazing, organized, clean and safe!
Some of those stops out in the boonies need shelter from the wind though. I was not aware of many of these possible improvements, this video definitely made me think!
When the newer model streetcars were introduced, they didn't open all the doors until people pressed the buttons, but people weren't aware of it so they got confused. This is more of a design issue though - the buttons are small relative to the door size, there's a significant delay between touching the button and opening the door, and sometimes the buttons make a sound but they aren't responsive (such as when the streetcar is about to begin moving). There's also those who are hesitant to touch surfaces during the pandemic, especially buttons that are pressed by hundreds or thousands of people everyday.
The design of these lines leave a lot to be desired. Even on separated streetcar lines such as St Clair Ave W, streetcars don't get priority, the stops are unlit, there are too many stops in a short distance (Vaughan Rd, Bathurst, St Clair W, and Tweedsmuir are all within a 5 min walk of each other but take 10-15 mins for the streetcar), and because of the stop location being after lights, people are often dangerously rushing through traffic to get to the streetcar before it leaves. It's insane. TTC = Take The Car.
I think the button issue could quickly be solved with some communication
@@RMTransit A bunch of big arrow stickers all pointing to the button would probably be enough.
Guy who was a rep when they deployed the new streetcars here.... The doors actually have two operation modes for "open". One is "forced open" which is what they use now, and the other is "as required open"... They initially had the operator default to "as required" to help conserve heating and cooling inside the streetcars. The operator ALWAYS had the option to force open the doors at any time (as long as it's streetcar is not in motion).
It's a operational policy, rather than a problem with the door operation design. Eventually, they did just require operators to use force open for peak and the operator is left to decide to use "as required" during off peak or at their discretion.
One change I should note is the door closing speed. The initial spec had the doors do a fast close where the doors slid close fast and slow down at the last moment. This allowed the streetcar to meet tighter operational targets. HOWEVER, because people are people... Some people get "stunned" but the closing doors. Imagine being momentarily squeezed between the two sliding doors if you attempt to jump in or our when the door chime is going.
In turn, the TTC changed the door closing to do a full "slow" closure which then slowed down and extended the platform time for the streetcar. This also in turn made it that during rush hour you would almost always have people attempting to jump in last second, succeeding... But the door will not close because the line break detector went off and the door assume someone is in the way of the door.
I suppose what we can take away from this is that, better efficiency does not necessarily mean better user experience. Because humans are humans and people will be people.
@@RMTransit
Exactly.. put huge stickers on every door for a few months if required.. we made no real effort to get people using the buttons.
@@RMTransit Say the button glows green, someone stands in front of the door, waiting for it to open, but it doesn't. That someone is kindly told by a staff member to press to open, but instead of trying to learn from it, that customer abuses the staff member, claiming that staff member was rude.
I think the reason why all streetcar doors open is a legal/safety thing. Since the law in Toronto states you can't pass "open doors". So by default the drivers open the doors to stop traffic from passing the car before people enter/exit the vehicle. Otherwise you could legally continue driving past the stopped streetcar until one (or all) of it's doors are open.
Sounds like a misdesigned law, then.
It's not possible for drivers to see if the doors are actually open with any consistency. If the street car's lights are flashing you're supposed to stop. It says so right on the back of the vehicle.
I am pretty sure the abundance of flashing red LEDs that project from the side of the street car serve that same purpose. Besides... I see drivers ignore this "law" all the time time and I have never seen any enforcement or ticketing resulting from it. I've seen Toronto Police vehicles in line of site of these infractions and I have never seen any one get pulled over.
There are cameras all of these modern street cars too... perhaps they should have a automatic ticketing system for drivers who breach this Ontario Highway Traffic Act law just like they have red camera lights.
Again, all of the flashing red lights on the door side of the street car make the need to stop by drivers abundantly clear.
@@KaiHenningsen After some further investigation I found this:
Ontario Highway Traffic act Section 166(1) States: Where a person in charge of a vehicle [...] overtakes a street car [..], operated in or near the centre of the roadway, which is stationary for the purpose of taking on or discharging passengers he or she shall not pass the car or approach nearer than 2 metres measured back from the nearest door of the car that the person is approaching and through which passengers may get on or off .
So the law just states you have to stay 2m from the door regardless if the lights are flashing or if the doors are open if the streetcar is embarking or disembarking passengers.
@@blake.crosby great to see this! Thanks for digging it up!
These all seem like really common sense, low cost changes that the City can make with minimal dependency on the Province. I wonder if a small, passionate group could sway City Hall to push some of these through...
Yeah I'm trying to start the conversation!!
My proposal for line naming in Toronto:
Level 1 - prefix assignment:
Trams get T prefix: T1, T2;
Night routes get N prefix: N0 (or N100), N84;
Express buses get X prefix: X0 (or X100), X27;
Community buses get C prefix: C4 instead of 404…
Limited routes get L prefix: L22A, L162.
Level 2: line renumbering:
Trams get the lowest numbers;
Core bus lines (longer, straighter) get higher numbers;
Shorter lines (curvy) get even higher numbers;
Some limited and seasonal buses should have the highest numbers.
Greetings from Kyiv, Ukraine (my city has a very bad transportation system)
P. S.: Please tear down Gardiner Expressway, make Highway 401 narrower and Highway 407 free as this is the best bypass for thru traffic. No thru traffic should be routed into the city.
Not bad! I like it!
Letter prefixes are confusing, especially when we already have letter branch suffixes. They’re apparently confusing enough that all of the “E” branch express routes had to be spliced together with the 190-series Rockets into the 900-series Express Network.
Also, renumbering routes en masse would cause so much confusion as to make everything unusable for most passengers. The original
@@sblack53 Confusing ?
Letter prefixes work perfectly in Paris where the subway lines are prefixed M and tram lines are prefixed T, they even have both the same range of numbers and no one confuses them.
There are M1 to M14 (soon up to M18) metro lines and T1 to T13 tram lines.
Suffixes : the T3 line is so long that it is split into T3a and T3b. And as said in the video, tram-train lines are suffixed "Express".
The night buses are prefixed N also.
Regular day buses are numbered 20 > 100 for Paris core routes, and numbers above 100 are for suburbs.
Each hundred range above 100 is more or less indicating the distance from the core : 100 > 200 is give or take the first ring of suburbs, 200 > 300 is further away and so on.
I very roughly simplified the numbering scheme for buses, but you get the overall idea.
Prefixes are a real help because you instantly know that if you're connecting from the subway to T2 for example, a tram line, you have to emerge to the surface from the subway and exit the fare control zone to connect.
On line's wayfinding diagrams, each stop has a list of connections grouped by type, each with a pictogram / prefix letter.
A new, improved and well thought naming and numbering scheme would be great for Toronto.
Prefixes work and are pretty self explanatory.
Just look at Berlin for another example : subway lines are prefixed U for U-Bahn and suburban trains are prefixed S for S-Bahn. It's even a naming convention shared throughout Germany and Austria.
@@Humulator Limited lines are not express lines - they run during selected periods of time (for example some of them do not run off-peak).
After going to NYC for the weekend last month I really appreciated announcements in Toronto. I was so surprised NYC subways didn't announce the stops.
I still remember the first time I took the streetcar in Toronto it was slower than simply walking. Never took it again. I do very often use the subway though
Riding it keeps you out of the weather, at least. But yeah, painfully slow.
It does depend on which route -- the ones with dedicated rights of way are reasonably fast. Queen and King are fine, except for frequent short turns. The College and Dundas ones are TERRIBLE and have been since the 80s.
You really have to figure out where it makes sense and where it doesn't! Wayfinding could help!
I was in Warsaw the other day and was very impressed by the speed of the trams there. In many cases they went faster than the cars. Granted the city has long, straight boulevards and the trams seem to mostly have their own RoW. They looked really sleek, zipping along and my perception was they were a fast way to get about town.
@@jrochest4642 Yeah the College streetcar... It's painfully slow.
7:43 This happened ALL THE TIME at Main Street-Danforth. Worse still there, that station is a terminus for 506, and isn't even *on* Danforth Avenue; it's behind a bunch of storefronts on the residential north end of Main.
Excellent critique RM. While I mildly disagree with a few of your suggestions, most are spot on.
Re: WiFi and USB on transit - North Carolina is using Pullman cars with those features for the Piedmonter regional rail.
About the door buttons; Here in Berlin Trams used to only unlock the doors (apart from busier stops), but that was changed in 2020 to reduce contact surfaces and spread of COVID-19.
You should note that the buttons to open the doors from the inside are also stop request buttons. Given how rare stop skipping is, can you see how a tourist using them system might not be aware that it has request stopping?
I remember the first time I was on a streetcar in Toronto where the driver had to get out and manually switch the tracks. I thought I'd traveled back in time.
The traffic signal system in Toronto is the first thing they should work on changing. This system alone can solve a huge number of traffic issues Toronto streets have right now. The traffic lights are just so inefficient everywhere it's painful to drive/ride around with.
Great video! You are right on with your comments. I am glad you put a positive spin on them. I hope "they" are listening.
I lived in Toronto in years 2014-19. I remember well how I was annoyed how slow streetcars were as they had no dedicated lanes. I must say screens in upcoming stops and connections are useful. I live in Switzerland and such information is very useful. Also, app for transit is very useful with information about connections. But still, I appreciated TTC.
Man, You really said a mouthful there! And you were spot-on with every last one of your suggestions! I've been riding the Red Rocket for 70 years and I'm sure I've written 70 letters to the TTC. On a rare occasion I might get some sort of lame response and the streetcars just keep rolling along, rattling through the intersections.
You do know your stuff, having been in most places that have transit. I wonder if the brain trust at the TTC can say as much. I'd really like to know if anyone there is listening to people like you!
Leo
hi i'm from melbourne and i gotta say, only our modern trams have LCD's, and the vast majority of our tram stops do not have level boarding but thanks for giving us a mention!
ps i would love another video on our suburban rail loop, the last one got deleted
tysm!
I had no idea the Toronto Streetcars were this bad, but this would explain why I only used them once on 2 visits Toronto, whist I used the Subway on many occassions!
Just seems like there is so many basic improvements that they can make.
I think this video just hilights the entire problem with the TTC street cars:
1) the center islands are dangerous
2) the rail switching is overtly complex and slow
3) wayfinding is just assumed to be common knowledge as a TTC rider. The street cars never deviate in stops only frequency.
Like it seems to me the most logical solution is rather to double the street car network , and alternate one-way roads. eg have roads and tracks going north every second road, so cars can turn right, but the trams are on the left-side, so they load from the sidewalk. The south bound works the same. No left turns. Do the same for east and west. Hard to describe this in it's entirety, but basically what Victoria BC does with the downtown bus network on the one-way streets. This would remove the need for the majority of the switches because if a diversion is necessary, stop the train, go across the block and get on the next one. Then just leave the train on the track until the diversion is cleared or it can be moved to the terminus.
On the other hand, a lot of transit is in for a penny, in for a pound, and having any engineering changes is likely to not happen, and as we've seen with the RT, the TTC would rather destroy something than fix it.
I was about to comment about the weird single point switches, but lo and behold, you mentioned them 😀
The TTC used to have both maps and schedules on bus stop signage in the early 2000s. I'm not sure when it went away, probably sometime around the explosion of smartphone ownership, but I have a suspicion the real reason its gone is so that nobody knows when the routes are late. The current signs just show you a phone number to text to find out how long until the next ride instead of...y'know, a useful schedule.
They got rid of it a few years ago back in 2016 in one of the most mind boggling decisions they've ever made. They did it to save under a million dollars a year in printing costs.
Awesome content, learning so much about the TTC from someone with more world experience!
As a frequent user of the 504 line, the most egregious stop spacing has got to be Jefferson and Joe Shuster, the stops are literally less than the length of two streetcars apart.
Many insightful points! I do have a very specific suggestion on how to fix a really bad choke point on the Dundas streetcar line as it passes eastbound over the DVP.
When they added bike lanes to Dundas, they basically took a whole lane in each direction, leaving a single lane for cars and streetcars to share. This causes a significant delay for both drivers and streetcar passengers when eastbound vehicles have to wait for a gap to turn left onto the ramp to the northbound DVP.
There are several potential workarounds to this, but I think the most effective would be to narrow the current generously-wide bike lanes (just for the section over the bridge) and add a hardened barrier to protect cyclists. This would free up enough space for three lanes of traffic across the bridge. If they then realigned the streetcar tracks and through lanes to run on the outer two of the three lanes, the middle lane could be a long left turn lane where cars could wait for a gap without delaying eastbound streetcars and other vehicles.
Cyclists would likely have to refrain from passing other cyclists on the bridge, but that would be a small price to pay for better traffic flow and has the bonus of better protection for cyclists if a hardened barrier was added.
Interesting idea!
I see you love Australian rail... would be awesome to see a video about the only state without a passenger rail and why they are ripping it up: Tasmania and the narrow gauge
Great job! You should make sure that everyone on the TTC board watches this. Maybe they would learn something 🤦
I'd also like to add that a lot of advanced green signals that are active during weekday rush hour traffic are disabled on weekends when we need them the most.
My visit in 2007 (a long time ago) I used the subway more than the streetcars, and when I did use a street car it was to get to a subway station, or Union Station since my hotel was a short walk away (no, not the Fairmont). I did love the look of the old streetcars, and I loved the clean subway with padded seats (I’m from NYC, you want a subway car with padded seats, it’s in the transit museum. Later when I went to London I was amazed at not only the padded seats on the Underground, but they have armrests!)
I was in Toronto to see blink 182 for their first show there. When I on wheel trans ( at least one of the taxis the tcc contracts ) I saw a street car getting worked on because a wheel fell off 😂
I don't take the Street Car often, but I think the issue is more of an expectation thing. For example, I'll often take the King Street Car. Yet I always have that internal debate on if I should walk, bike share, or street car. The Streetcar though just never seems to come. I know it says the frequency is 5 minutes, but it's never there. So I always just do a thing where if I see it coming, I'll take it. Beyond that, I'll just go another way. I'd love to take it. They're great vehicles.
Well right now it's having work done, before that it was super frequent as it is in the core!
Funny you should mention the how closely spaced the stops on the 510 Spadina Street Car are through the University of Toronto. I remember the “community consultation” that created this feature. All it takes are a dedicated group of people who have the time and ability to influence such meetings, like University educated people. The rebuilding of the streetcar route was facing strong headwinds with its dedicated right-of-way from shop owners who use frequent truck and van deliveries. The TTC needed consensus and two added stops at Wilcox and Sussex streets was the price along with no barriers to motor vehicles driving over the tracks. After completion curbs to keep private motor vehicles off the tracks were added after one too many accidents.
Another interesting solution to the left turn problem is the Michigan left. Pretty much, on major roadways, those wanting to make a left turn must first turn right, then turn left on a u-turn, hook connector thing to the lane in the opposite direction and then they turn left out of that and go straight and are on their way.
One left = right + left + left
Michigan lefts are great but really only work when you have room for a decent-sized center median.
2:25 naming of routes
3:38 wayfinding & announcements
7:23 signal priority
8:20 left turns
9:34 multi-stage crossing
10:49 dual-point switch
13:53 door buttons
I still remember (many many years ago) the first time I was on a TTC streetcar that was diverted and the driver got that 1.5m metal bar out to switch tracks (iirc it was the College car and it had to turn down Ossington for a detour of some kind, could have been a short turn though who knows). I was baffled that the driver had to keep such a device on hand and a little confused about why everyone on the streetcar had to wait for this to happen. Thank you for elucidating this "oddity" and the many other quirks in the streetcar network (among all your other videos!)
Can also confirm my experience with the new streetcars that all the doors always open, and every time I've pressed the outer button thinking to myself "oh I'd better press it, in case they aren't all opening", only to see all the other doors open too 🙃
The capital of Poland called warsaw has a better street car and transport facility than Toronto and the guy explained all the small solutions in this video. I guess TTC should hear this carefully and start to improve their services for their own commuters.
I've been fighting for these changes for years. Good luck, hope you do much better than me!
100% agree with the Wayfinding signage (or should I say LACK of signage) throughout most of the network and more specifically the surface routes. The biggest issue is the designers never look at the lowest level of User, but more the highest level. They don't consider the infrequent User (such as myself or even Tourist). I understand that a lot of people use Apps, but TTC needs to provide much better at point wayfinding.
Here in Budapest, we only have dual-point switches, many of which have to be regually thrown manually. This doesn't cause a problem, spring systems help drivers use the switch, so this is an easily debunkable excuse.
Yeah, as are many! They would say it never snows in Budapest haha
Yes, the TTC also has many dual-point streetcar switches (in yards). They are fine in snow, and they can be thrown manually if they fail. The TTC has no problem with dual-point switches.
Toronto does love it's streetcar network. St Clair, Spadina and Queensway/Lake shore which is the 501 Queen streetcar network have segregated right of way lanes. They're safe from traffic delays and passengers can safely board them on the streetcar islands. Yes Melbourne Australia 🦘 has a streetcar/tram network and better level boarding.
Roncesvalles Avenue, where the 504A runs, as bump out into the curb lane, raised boarding platforms. But I can't recall if they're level boarding or not.
@@longbranchmike488 sadly not
Not the Lake Shore, just the Queensway between the Humber Loop and about Parkside Drive, is median-running. The New Toronto stretch of Lake Shore (at the numbered streets) has a bunch of enhanced stops at least.
@@sblack53 For others reading these comments, these enhanced stops are streetcar islands, which allow passengers to safely wait next to the streetcar lane, protected by a concrete wedge & canopy. As a Lakeshore resident, we need more of these, as these islands are sporadic. Unofficially, I've heard that the City plans to install more such islands at major, busy intersections on Lake Shore Blvd W, such as at Kipling, Islington.
Great channel you're running here.
I grew up in Toronto and rode the streetcars many times, mainly the PCOs with their rattling wheels and the new ones they introduced in the early eighties.
As a lover of all things on rails it saddens me that these new multicar streetcars, introduced long after I left the city, have their wheels and bogies completely covered making them look too futuristic as if they're pretending to be hovering or something. Aerodynamics can't be a reason as even Japan's Bullitt trains display their bogies so I guess it down to health and safety.
I loved those rattling wheels with their axles supported inside the bogies. The newer cars introduced in the early eighties had train-like bogies with the wheels partly covered by the former and they didn't rattle over switches, etc but they did thump over bumps and a remember articles in the Toronto Sun complaining about the noise they made and damage to roadways. At the same time these were introduced the TTC began rebuilding/modernizing the tracks, setting them in concrete as opposed to them simply being in asphalt or cobblestones.
I've always wondered why they all have green lights and the front.
Some street cars are great but i see your point some street car routes are just medicore
TTC used to have way more information on the stop poles, such as the schedule and a map of the route.
The schedule, by their admission, became useless over time, and the maps only ever were placed at transfer points.
as someone who recently moved to Toronto, i can definitely say the wayfinding on TTC needs big improvements. the subway isn't too hard to figure out but I could never find my way by bus or streetcar without third-party apps (and with Rocketman shutting down, that's about to get harder)
Try to find one of the big TTC maps that's overlaid onto a street map. Makes it a lot easier. Also, you'll just get used to it in time. It's good to remember that since most of the city is straight lines, our routes are also mainly straight lines.
The abundance of turning tracks where streetcar lines intersect is a symptom of the failure to prioritize streetcar service. The TTC has fallen in love with short turns as a means of dealing with bunching rather than addressing core issues that are mentioned here with track switches and intersection & signal prioritization for the streetcars.
Absolutely yeah!
7:52 In Belgium we have a simple solution: the street car ALWAYS has priority except at traffic lights.
It should still have priority at traffic lights
imo a diversion is better than a replacement bus
but also - the tube doesn't use buttons. most trains arent fitted with them, some trains fitted with them have them disabled (northern/jubilee) and the sub surface stock only uses them at long stops when the doors close again but Arnet locked because the train is sitting
I was just in TO and took the 504 King, I eventually had to ask someone on the street what streetcar I had to go on because nothing was clear at all. A bus would have been just as easy however there is something to say about taking a streetcar. If Edmonton every gets it’s Valley line open the new Flexity freedom cars will be a great addition but for now it’s been delayed AGAIN due to major defects in the support piers on the large elevated section, sigh
Having ridden the 'T' Green Line surface routes in Boston my suggestion to best improve TTC streetcar service is provide signal priority for the streetcars and ban or restrict traffic on the streetcar routes
It’s funny because in Amsterdam trams still use the metal bar to sometimes switch lanes. It usually happens in intersections where they can’t close it off for repairs.
Finaly something Prague is better than Amsterdam!
My final straw on 501 streetcar: Every junction they slow down to 5 km/h and that's until the whole 50 ft long vehicle is past the junction.
Yep, it's not great! They should all be fast!
great video. I'm from Hamilton and I'm really hoping we can get some of these ideas right with our forthcoming LRT system. unfortunately we, like Toronto, have an addiction with high speed traffic flow so...
Consistency is key. I often see three trams come in 5 minutes and then you will wait 20 minutes to see another one.
TTC operations make streetcar experience even worse.
I often take the TTC during the peak hours, and they make unscheduled short turns to 'better separate' a bunch of streetcars that got stacked because of various reasons (i.e., their first one is just LATE).
And if you are unlucky, they may short turn 3 to 5 streetcars in a row, making you stand outside in the rain, cold or extreme weather conditions.
If you have already waited to get on the streetcar in the first place, the short turn is even more annoying. Often times, the streetcar you then get on, is also busy. You may not even get on.
Visited Toronto beginning of September. Took Spadina streetcar knowing it would take a bit to get to Union for my Via train. It ended up shortstopping beforehand (near Queen's Quay I think?). I was cutting it close, so thankfully rebooked my Via ticket last minute so I didn't lose all my money. Decided to stay on it and head up to an actual stop and got on another 510 Union.... just for it to shortstop again. There was no clear indicator that these streetcars were not going to bring me all the way to Union, even if that was the "direction" it was going. Luckily got there after getting on the 512 to Union station. Still pissed me off to no end.
The door buttons is really perplexing, they should be used as designed but as of now they're used as secondary stop request buttons.
Also, not just London Underground, most European metros I've taken have used door buttons or even old fashioned leavers (older Berlin trains) to open doors.
They are used as door buttons. It only opens the door when it's parked at a stop.
Yeah it's strange, especially because Toronto gets hot in summer and cold in winter!
They've always been a stop request button. They function practically the same as the other stop request buttons on the streetcar... They open the door when the door is in "open as required" mode. And only opens the nearest door to the button you press. In this case, the buttons on the door itself will always open that door.
Also, the buttons on the doors are the only buttons with lights on them. If you see the lights around the door button lit up, it means that door SHOULD open when the streetcar stops and the operator sets the door to open. This is even if NOBODY actually pressed the button on the door itself.
@@zeighy Exactly. The buttons on the TTC streetcars are actually quite well designed. Unlike the doors on trains here in the Netherlands. Here the button just ignores you unless the doors are already unlocked, resulting in wasted time after the conductor unlocks them. In Toronto the button actually remembers that you've pressed the button (or someone in that unit has requested the stop) and it opens as soon as the operator unlocks the doors.
@@RMTransit Speaking of stop request, is it true that the transit city system is all all stopper, without stop request buttons? If so, they might as well open their doors at all stops for accessibility.
Preach Reece Preach! You are so right.
Regarding the disruptions to streetcar services right now, it's chaotic because most of the lines are getting some much needed repairs to the tracks. Yeah, they need to make signage of how to get to the detour better. I had so many people asking me on the street how to get to X road, where the rerouted stop was.
Another idea?
Put rubber wheels on the street cars and call them something else?
Like...buses.
I enjoy your channel.
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Not enough capacity. They're just not good for the big routes. It's not fun watching 5 full buses drive past because they're that full.
1 been waiting for this video!!
2 nice haircut!
It’s a powerful zelensky look!
Thanks
For the Melbourne tram transit, we do also have announcements that include that there would be a train route nearby, a different tram route, which direction it will go it etcetera.
I'm a Canadian who lived in Toronto for 8 years. I recently returned to visit the City. Stopped at the corner of Queen and Broadview, waiting for the streetcar I know so well, I realized I no longer had a PRESTO card. I tried for 15 minutes to google how to pay for the streetcar without one, and I couldn't figure it out. I'm sure there's an answer, but I didn't find it. I couldn't remember if you could pay with another form of payment once boarding, but everything I googled suggested you couldn't. So I abandoned the idea.
Downtown during rush hour, you can actually walk as fast as the streetcar. The subway is way better, and our whole system would be amazing if all the streetcars were underground.
Not sure if Toronto wants to be a world city or is accidentally stumbling into it.
It depends if you ask the people of Toronto or the people of Toronto's Suburbs
It's a mix! Sometimes we seem to passionately fight for it!
Toronto is in a competition to remain the Stoopidest City in the world and they've won it each year for a very long time but they don't want anyone to sneak up on them to steal that much-coveted title.
During the peak of the Covid pandemic, Zurich tram drivers would open all doors so people wouldn't touch the buttons. However, under normal circumstances, almost all public transport vehicles in Switzerland use the door buttons with doors that close automatically after a few seconds (most also have infrared sensors to reset the timer when someone walks through, older vehicles have pressure plates in the floor). Even the new Stadler high speed trains operate like this.
In an ideal tram system trams should get priority on pretty much every signal, so they basically only stop at the stations.
And also have people waiting and/or get off at all stations, even people going through every door at all of them.
In a lot of streets tram tracks can become green tracks which do not need to be shared with cars. It also helps to keep the climate in the city moderate.
For heating/cooling issues in buses at least where I live the bus drivers only open the doors that need to be opened and if no one is exiting then only the front door is opened since that one is dedicated for entering and all others are for exiting. So let's say 4th door gets opened only cuz someone is exiting only there also our drivers love to skip stops fully if it looks like no one will get off or on.
Skipping empty stops isn't a unique thing.
Busses in my town do it all the time and then theres the small branch line railways with request stops that are just train versions of bus stops.
@@davidty2006 What I wanted to convey is that even without fancy technology these goals are still achievable.
At Broadview, because their service is so shitty and unpredictable, and the station can only fit 2 streetcars (per bay), you'll often have streetcars parked in middle of the street, blocking the lane, waiting to squeeze into the station - with the passengers still inside! I was once stuck there for almost 10 minutes, just sitting meters away from station, but unable to exit the streetcar, just wasting everyone's time.
These streetcars seem too long for our streets, I know its too late to do anything about it. They are long, but they feel more cramped than the old ones, and they dont seem to fit that much more people.
Either have streetcars on separate lanes/areas.
Or don't have them at all.
I lived in Toronto and I thought the only reason 'the Rocket' was still going was some silly, sentimental blather.
The new streetcars, ARE cool looking though.
Like your channel.
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I always wonder why leading left turns are almost always used in Canada, while lagging left turns are actually slightly more efficient at moving traffic?
The route numbers arrived with the previous generation of streetcars, which didn't support separate names for route and destination. Back then, scrolls were used for the displays.