Another very interesting video. Some very complex things broken down very nicely. Maybe it doesn't directly tell me to add another click of rebound or whatever... but I think that greater understanding of the issues leads to better decision making. Thanks for bringing this stuff to us!
You can look into " oversuspension " , " particle damping " and " yamaha performance damper " , they filter out harshness from over/under-damped systems via different methods...
Great video, really enjoy your content, as a long term Mtber its nice to see someone that can explain the complexity of suspension and make it make sence. Cheers Steve 🤘
Very cool Steve, as a physicist I can appreciate this a lot, even though it might go over the heads of many. A thought that occurred to me is that this very problem is why there is low and high speed circuits in a damper. Just shooting from the hip here, maybe an ideal rebound damping system would have a HSR tuned to the critical damping of the unsprung mass, and a LSR that is tuned for critical damping of the sprung mass. And that combined with a sensor that keeps the HSC open as long as the compressive force in the spring is less than the sag force, to quickly re-establish traction, and closes it when force exceeds sag force, to prevent ejector seat effects. Waddayathink?
Great video. I learned the basic concept of resonance in school (a long time ago) and you see (or feel or hear) it in life all the time. Does your car make a rattle at a certain speed or engine RPM that goes away again when you go faster or rev harder? That's resonance, the same happens with washing machines and anything else that vibrates.. One example that I was taught about was the (original) Tacoma Narrows bridge which collapsed shortly after construction. The engineers didn't take the interaction of wind and the natural resonance of the bridge into account (to be fair little was known about it at the time) and when the wind hit the perfect speed (only 42mph according to Wikipedia) the bridge started oscillating wildly and collapsed! Another, less extreme, bridge related example is the London Millennium Footbridge (across the Thames) which easily hit a resonant frequency just from the footsteps of people walking across it, if everyone ran across it would have been fine. It didn't collapse but it was closed and had to be fixed. The changes they made didn't make it any 'stronger' in the traditional sense but it was enough to change the natural resonance of the bridge so that it didn't sway. From Wikipedia: "They concluded that making the bridge stiffer, to move its resonant frequency out of the excitation range, was not feasible as it would greatly change its appearance. Instead, the resonance was controlled by retrofitting 37 viscous fluid dampers to dissipate energy."
Yeah real world resonances are crazy! Exactly why my car dashboard vibrates like hell at 1900 RPM but I'm not going down that rabbit hole just yet.....Tacoma Narrows was one of the first examples I got taught as well, that is a wild video if anyone has never seen it. I randomly travelled past there once on a train to Seattle, so got a glimpse but part of me was bummed I didn't know in advance or else I would have visited it!
Thanks so much for explaining it. Intrinsically I understand what is happening, but I don’t know what is happening from an engineering perspective. It’s great to put a little bit of structure around my thoughts. (And to have them validated). I work with motorized offroad suspension design. Right now my designs are reactive, but they will be migrating to active and proactive as I can characterize the various suspension activity for a given situation. Tons of fun! Thanks again.
How do you calculate critical damping and can you please suggest some book for more details from where you are explaining the things... Waiting for any answer
Great video! Do I get you right here that the more fitness I have (ability to stabilize and dampen my body=main part of the unsprung mass) the less rebound dampening I can ride and get closer to an optimal dampening for the sprung mass? Thanks! BR Tobias
Not really actually. The rider's ability to respond is heavily frequency-limited to well below the frequencies the wheel can move at, regardless of fitness. The optimum amount of damping isn't just for the wheels.
I confused the two masses… Sprung mass = rider + “bike” Unsprung mass = “wheels” What I meant was that the more fit you are the better you can dampen the sprung mass. Then you can set the rebound more close to the optimum dampening for the unsprung mass (faster rebound). What do you think about that? Do Pro riders run their rebound faster or slower than the average guy? Thanks!
Hi, thanks for perfect educative series. I watched all your videos, however I still could not grasp one concept. How negative spring works, why it helps with initial stroke at all. Currently, DVO makes forks with adjustable negative coil preload. I have a fork with interchangeable negative coil and tunable negative spring preload (SR SANTOUR AURON). But I have no idea how to set up that for best results. Manufacture does not provide any setup information. They provide just chart with negative spring rates vs. positive air pressure. No explanation, no theory behind it. DVO at lest says: “OTT allows the rider to fine tune the small bump sensitivity without affecting the mid-stroke or end-stroke. As a general rule of thumb, the heavier or aggressive rider will use more air pressure & more OTT. A lighter or less aggressive rider will use lower air pressures and less OTT.” However, it is preload, not spring rate. Does higher spring rate of negative and positive spring result in lower overall break away force? How progressive negative spring influence fork travel, ... Could you please shad some light in to this? Thank you.
Can you do a concept and example of how to make a suspension more poppy like easier bunny hops, jumping, and what the rider lose in that setup. An example like, increasing lsc and making rebound faster. Thank you, keep up the great work.
I honestly think this is the first time I've seen a TH-camr correct a video and re-upload it :O RIP the views count :(
Don't care about the views count really, would rather put out quality :)
Great video once again. Thanks for connecting physics to MTB-applications in a good way. Looking forward to the next one. Best regards
Another very interesting video. Some very complex things broken down very nicely. Maybe it doesn't directly tell me to add another click of rebound or whatever... but I think that greater understanding of the issues leads to better decision making. Thanks for bringing this stuff to us!
You can look into " oversuspension " , " particle damping " and " yamaha performance damper " , they filter out harshness from over/under-damped systems via different methods...
Great video, really enjoy your content, as a long term Mtber its nice to see someone that can explain the complexity of suspension and make it make sence. Cheers Steve 🤘
I just LOVE this level of detail. THANKS!
Very cool Steve, as a physicist I can appreciate this a lot, even though it might go over the heads of many. A thought that occurred to me is that this very problem is why there is low and high speed circuits in a damper. Just shooting from the hip here, maybe an ideal rebound damping system would have a HSR tuned to the critical damping of the unsprung mass, and a LSR that is tuned for critical damping of the sprung mass. And that combined with a sensor that keeps the HSC open as long as the compressive force in the spring is less than the sag force, to quickly re-establish traction, and closes it when force exceeds sag force, to prevent ejector seat effects. Waddayathink?
Great video. I learned the basic concept of resonance in school (a long time ago) and you see (or feel or hear) it in life all the time. Does your car make a rattle at a certain speed or engine RPM that goes away again when you go faster or rev harder? That's resonance, the same happens with washing machines and anything else that vibrates..
One example that I was taught about was the (original) Tacoma Narrows bridge which collapsed shortly after construction. The engineers didn't take the interaction of wind and the natural resonance of the bridge into account (to be fair little was known about it at the time) and when the wind hit the perfect speed (only 42mph according to Wikipedia) the bridge started oscillating wildly and collapsed!
Another, less extreme, bridge related example is the London Millennium Footbridge (across the Thames) which easily hit a resonant frequency just from the footsteps of people walking across it, if everyone ran across it would have been fine. It didn't collapse but it was closed and had to be fixed. The changes they made didn't make it any 'stronger' in the traditional sense but it was enough to change the natural resonance of the bridge so that it didn't sway. From Wikipedia:
"They concluded that making the bridge stiffer, to move its resonant frequency out of the excitation range, was not feasible as it would greatly change its appearance. Instead, the resonance was controlled by retrofitting 37 viscous fluid dampers to dissipate energy."
Yeah real world resonances are crazy! Exactly why my car dashboard vibrates like hell at 1900 RPM but I'm not going down that rabbit hole just yet.....Tacoma Narrows was one of the first examples I got taught as well, that is a wild video if anyone has never seen it. I randomly travelled past there once on a train to Seattle, so got a glimpse but part of me was bummed I didn't know in advance or else I would have visited it!
Thanks so much for explaining it. Intrinsically I understand what is happening, but I don’t know what is happening from an engineering perspective. It’s great to put a little bit of structure around my thoughts. (And to have them validated). I work with motorized offroad suspension design. Right now my designs are reactive, but they will be migrating to active and proactive as I can characterize the various suspension activity for a given situation. Tons of fun! Thanks again.
That sounds awesome, good luck with it!
How do you calculate critical damping and can you please suggest some book for more details from where you are explaining the things... Waiting for any answer
hello! could yo maybe make an episode anout rockshox/trek through shaft system? would be really interested to see that.
Great video!
Do I get you right here that the more fitness I have (ability to stabilize and dampen my body=main part of the unsprung mass) the less rebound dampening I can ride and get closer to an optimal dampening for the sprung mass?
Thanks!
BR Tobias
Not really actually. The rider's ability to respond is heavily frequency-limited to well below the frequencies the wheel can move at, regardless of fitness. The optimum amount of damping isn't just for the wheels.
I confused the two masses…
Sprung mass = rider + “bike”
Unsprung mass = “wheels”
What I meant was that the more fit you are the better you can dampen the sprung mass. Then you can set the rebound more close to the optimum dampening for the unsprung mass (faster rebound).
What do you think about that? Do Pro riders run their rebound faster or slower than the average guy?
Thanks!
@@tobiasdonner6268 I understood you, the answer is still the same.
Excuse me, why is there a resistor and battery in your suspension sir?
Hi, thanks for perfect educative series. I watched all your videos, however I still could not grasp one concept. How negative spring works, why it helps with initial stroke at all. Currently, DVO makes forks with adjustable negative coil preload. I have a fork with interchangeable negative coil and tunable negative spring preload (SR SANTOUR AURON). But I have no idea how to set up that for best results. Manufacture does not provide any setup information. They provide just chart with negative spring rates vs. positive air pressure. No explanation, no theory behind it.
DVO at lest says: “OTT allows the rider to fine tune the small bump sensitivity without affecting the mid-stroke or end-stroke. As a general rule of thumb, the heavier or aggressive rider will use more air pressure & more OTT. A lighter or less aggressive rider will use lower air pressures and less OTT.” However, it is preload, not spring rate. Does higher spring rate of negative and positive spring result in lower overall break away force? How progressive negative spring influence fork travel, ... Could you please shad some light in to this? Thank you.
Can you do a concept and example of how to make a suspension more poppy like easier bunny hops, jumping, and what the rider lose in that setup. An example like, increasing lsc and making rebound faster. Thank you, keep up the great work.
Every Tuesday I think of Steve and wonder what he's tuning today.
Sir can you give me the answer of a question.
Stages in suspension system?
What are the odds we get a video about hardtails? Is there a significant difference between hardtail and full sus fork setup?
7:58 have u got the link to that video? cant see it in the description. thanks
Here you go: th-cam.com/video/k-ydae6yOdA/w-d-xo.html
@@FlorianScheikl thx
SHOUT INTO THE VOID OF THE COMMENTS
I was working in a research facility in the desert, this fella caused a resonance cascade, all sorts of bother
Hi
I miss your videos
S.