Fan-Apart Carbonless Forms 2 part NCR
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ธ.ค. 2024
- How I make carbonless forms. This is just a 2-part form but you can make them 3, 4, 5 or more sets. Many items such as receipt books, invoices, quote and estimate pads. Some of my customers legally need to have a paper copy so they cannot even go digital, thats why NCR forms are still around. NCR stands for No Carbon Required, hence carbonless paper, the ability to create duplicates without the need for carbon paper. Once the paper has been cut all there is to do is paint on the glue/adhesive.
Thank you for your demonstration! I am a 6A high school teacher in Oklahoma and my class runs the district Print Shop. I had my first order for carbonless paper and the district already had a press in the warehouse, so we pulled it out! You video was very helpful!!!
Awesome! Don;t have too much fun, printing is addicting!
Greetings from Oklahoma! I own and operate a small print shop much like yours. It's eerily similar to mine. I work nights getting jobs out that came in during the day too! You can buy a Challenge Paddy Wagon for padding paper but every small shop I've ever seen has some homemade contraption just like yours. That's the first thing I did when I bought my shop was to build a padding press that would handle a large amount because we still print a lot of carbonless paper. I purchase most of my equipment from our state auction and have bought everything from offset presses, to digital duplicators, to folders and inserters, stitchers, cutters, addressing machines, and tabbers, I do a lot of direct mail. I maintain all my own equipment just like you. It's the only way I can compete and actually makes my margins pretty unbelievable! Can't tell you how many all-nighters I've pulled getting jobs out!
Oh man, sounds like we have a lot in common. Great to hear from you! I'm so excited to learn that there are thousands of small print shops across this country... and world. Very cool!
Thanks this was a good overview. I just had a small local biz come to me after their printer shut their doors. Never done them before, and will need to crash number.
If you're dad's still around, compliment him on the padding press. Well done.
He is and I will. Thanks! Have fun with the new carbonless work.
😅 a great thanks to your dad he is an inventor and thanks to you for giving us the information
Carbonless is a large part of my business. I like the padding press your dad made
I'll always keep that. :)
We do so much carbonless paper that it's easier to just jog and stack on the corner of the 8 foot table...put a board on top and add some 10 pound weights.
Also no need for the 2 minute delay and second coat...try it, more is not always better.
As for how the carbonless process works.
The top sheet is coated CB (for coated back side)
All inside sheets are CFB (coated front and back)
Bottom sheet is coated CF (coated front side)
The CF doesn't chemically adhere to the CB as there is no coating so it fans apart...like magic.🤔
@04:35 Special shout out to the Double A Paper in the back. One of my all around favorite papers that is getting harder to find.
Forms are fun. When I was a kid, my Aunt took me to the RR Donnelly plant in Lewisburg, but back then it was Moore Business Forms and I got to see the forms being made. They used rolls of paper for most everything so they'd load the rolls on the presses (offset) and start printing. They had a special number machine that would stamp in red sequential numbers if the customers wanted that. I was just a kid but I think they made up to 7 part forms. Back then they made carbonless forms that would be attached together and fan folded on a perf line. I remember seeing at an electronic parts store the machines they used for such forms. they'd load the forms in a metal box with a lever with one set of forms exposed and you could write on it like you would a clip board, then when the sales clerk was done they'd pull the lever and it would advance the form and you'd tear off the one you just wrote on and put the various colored parts to the different store departments and give the customer a copy.
Things must have been more fun back then, you actually got to do things and more people had jobs because most things were manual and required someone to do the tasks.
Oh man, yes times have changed!
wow your family support on your company thats good... i still have many experience and not getting any support from my family.... u r very lucky person in this world
Thank you!
Do want you want in this life, even if "friends" and "family" don't believe in you. It is your life not there's.
helping me out at work!! the ups store thanks you for your tutorial
LOL, you bet!
Nice work brown
Thanks!
There is a trick I have found if anyone ever has a problem with the sets not fanning apart all the way.
This can be due to not jogging the paper fully to the padded surface, using the same brush used for padding glue, getting some of the leftover dried glue on the clamp re-moisturized and mixed in, or even sometimes using a non-compatible fan apart compound.
Clamp the carbonless really tight and brush on really heavy coat and while it is still damp (about 10 minutes later) remove the sets and fan apart immediately.
If clamped really tight they shouldn't come out wavy and believe it or not, the fan apart compound almost immediately bonds the sets together.
Greats tips! Thank you!
Thank you
Been a printer since 1975, own my own shop. Directions say to skim trim the face, and use only 1 coat of glue. Shorter time until fanning apart in summer (high humidity) conditions.
Like the padding press, have one Champadco commercial unit and two sets of boards (without the frame) for larger jobs. Still use a letterpress for perfing and crash numbering.
I need to pick up a letterpress. That would be fun. You been printing longer than I've been alive!
One coat . And start from the bottom up
@@doops920 Thanks for the tip! From the bottom up makes sense.
I have a customer looking to get them padded in 100 sets each pad. Is that possible after you do what you did? Or is there a better process? The idea is to keep the yellow part in the book. He's a contractor and is always on the go, so he needs invoices hand written.
Do you know why a fresh ream of 2pt carbon less wouldn’t be transferring to the sheet below?
Two questions: (1) Why aren't people using carbonless forms? What else can they use instead? (2) I need some desperately; what kind of glue is that and where do I get some?
Hi, can you let me know why apply presure is needed? And what if i dont apply pressure?
What Kind of paper do you use to make carbonless forms 2 part NCR.. Also can you do that kind of work in small printers??
Very nice pafing presd
What do you charge for something like this
Sir please how do you combine the duplicates and the original one ..
Please can you teach me how to put cutting marks on paper?
Hello Dan. Very interesting. If you have an order for 5 sheets and with a serial number. How do you complete an order?
I would use datamerge in Indesign.
our little print shop uses a stand-alone software called Easy Numbering. pretty efficient little piece of work for the cheap price. you can pretty much make your money back on your first print job.
I watched a similiar video top this few seconds ago. It may be down to the person, but why do u wait an hour before letting the paste set? Previous person mentions they wait 35 minutes (Or thereabouts). I have a real interest in these Carbonless forms, as u say they are still being made *even here in Western Europe it is the case.)
35 minutes would probably be fine, but I'm not in a hurry. I usually just let it sit until it isn't tacky or even until the next day.
At 5:23, what is the special coating on the paper you are talking about?
It is an invisible coating that allows the glue to only adhere to every other sheet, making the 2-part carbonless.
Is it a special type of NCR?
Nope
I used to print prescription and medical certificates for doctors and I deliver them separately.
Do you know how to make a pile of 100 sheets glued so they will look as a book ?
Sure, you just use padding compound instead of fan-part. Or I could run them through my perfect binder and use hot melt to glue them
@@justaprinter What I meant is I want them glued like a 100 sheet book without that fan-apart effect. I can then pull one sheet and keep the others sticked and so on. If you can make a short and quick video it would be nice to learn how to do it.
G.B Cooper Elmers glue would work just fine. Stack your sheets, put some weight on top of the stack and glue them with Elmers glue.
@@pondorbox You bet, I'll show you how I make tablets.
@@justaprinter Nice 😋😊 I'm waiting to see that 😀😃
sir can you give measurement how to make?
What glue you use?
Its fan apart adhesive made by Har Adhesive.
Can you please tell me what type of paper to buy and where to buy it and also the name of the adhesive. Can you run through the printing process. Also what if you have to number them? I have a business of machine can I use that to print these
Any carbonless paper or NCR. The adhesive I use is HAR. I number them in InDesign. I'll have to do a start to finish carbonless video.
So you number them in sequence using indesign rather than a stamping machine? Thats genius! Thanks for your videos.
How much pressure do you need to add, is it okay if the stack is a little wavy? Thanks
Not much at all. Just enough to hold everything still. Yes, depending on the grain direction it might get a bit wavy. Thats fine.
Hello Mr. Brown , are u printing the carbonless paper on the Konica Minolta machine !!
You bet. All my Konica machines will print carbonless all day long.
@@justaprinter what model Minolta is that - I often have to print an emergency book because customers had forgotten to order.
Hi, your videos are very informative and enjoyable to watch.
you say that your KM presses are able to print carbonless all day, is this a joke or have you really had the opportunity to print a lot of carbonless in a row? I have a KM 2060 under contract and the technician who service it has advised me against printing carbonless on a regular basis or in quantities of more than several thousand sheets because, according to him, it leaves a deposit on the rollers of the machine and this is problematic. I bought a second hand Riso Comcolor to print carbonless, but I have problems with the paper passage whereas on my Konica press I never have any jam or double!
I was also wondering if you collate the carbonless sheets with your Horizon collator and if it works well or if you have collating problems?
Thanks and I look forward to watching your videos!
Hi do you put white and yellow paper per hand on top of each other?
No, I buy pre-collated NCR paper.
This is probably a dumb question, but does each page print separate or does the printer pull them together?
Not at all. Each sheet is printed on separately.
Greetings from Romania! How do you score your NCR? I print them on White CFB paper, with numbering and after that I score them and after that I stitch them. I am having problems on the scoring part because it sometimes picks more than one paper and I have to rearrange them.
Thats a good question. I have never scored NCR. Sorry!
@@justaprinter my mistake, sorry, i meant perforating.how do you perforate ncr paper
what type of printer your using to print carbonless paper?
I print carbonless on my 1200pro and 1070, 3070 presses.
Can you tell us what brand is the paper (model name) and the glue you are using? :)
Xerox Revolution paper with Har Fan-Apart adhesive.
@@justaprinter you da best, couldn't find that type of paper but at least you were helpful enough to tell us :) Thank you!
Hello, is there any way to type on pre printed ncr 2 part form other than using a dot matrix printer? We use single use invoices but with the business growing I was wondering if there was a faster way. We currently work with typewriters, but with constant mistakes, voiding invoices, and demand increase, the typewriter seems a little outdated.
Sorry, Not that I know of. I print out invoice from my computer.
A dot matrix or impact printer is all you can use because carbonless paper is pressure sensitive and requires an impact from a pen or another pressure source to transfer the image to the second, third, fourth, and/ or fifth sheet. A laser printer would work if you image each sheet then glued them, but it kinda defeats the purpose of using carbonless paper. The problem with an impact printer would be getting it to feed the entire set properly. They do make a tractor feed form that has a perforation on each side that gets torn off after printing. That's the only way I've seen it done.
What do you do for serial Numbering?
I should make a video for that. I do that in InDesign either using a page number to number each page or use datamerge and use a csv file with numbers.
@@justaprinter I do regular the same method like you. Data Merge.
What glue brand you using?
HAR universal fan apart
Just A Printer and how you adjust your 305 pressure because my 305 mess up the yellow tier
so, where is your dad
Retired. Just enjoying life now.
I want your life
Haha! Thanks!
Dan Make Me Wedding Invitation 5000
Sorry, I stopped doing wedding invites awhile ago.
It's very clear that you know your stuff. I run a small alarm company in California. I have been looking for blank versions of this two part glued form for some time now. We use dot matrix printers for our service tickets so the tech can leave a copy behind. Our software fills in all of the lines in pretty short order to preprinted isn't needed. Ii am interested in knowing what it would cost to start off with an order of 500 forms. Is there a web site that I can reach out to you? If not can you message me through TH-cam with your company details, such as phone number? I would really appreciate it. Alan
Pricing online at justaprinter.com Contact info there as well.
I work for a print shop in yuma Arizona.
For the guy with the dot matrix printer...with a collated 2 part form depending on your machine it may leave unwanted roller marks on the second copy as it goes thru the machine.
Might want to test a few sample sheets.
Had that problem with a weight scale company.