The fourth is the strongest hokage til kishimito yeet that shit and became dumb as fuck. Essentially nobody surpass the first hokage, even naruto and sasuke is granted their power by hagoromo. When at the very least he has no need to do that, he could have just write sasuke attained rinnegan because kabuto grant him hashirama cell, and naruto become pseudo ten tails jinchuriki with the help of obito
@@shzammpatapon9865if Naruto dint get six paths i argue he would have passed hashirama and Madara on his own in ksm he was already reaching that give him a few years he would naturally grow stronger than them since he was six teen
@@weeb5131 that’s not fair to toneri. Yes base Naruto and Sasuke solos all of shippuden but Naruto had to compress all of his chakra into his fist to two shot toneri. Once on his tso which blocked dozens of big ball rasengan a from kcm sage mode Naruto at once. And the second punch was to actually one shot him. Like did you not watch the fight. Toneri and Naruto were heavily implied to be equals. Both unable to defeat the other, Naruto literally had to pull a tsunade to win.
I do think Minato takes it for the reasons you stated. I'm rewatching the series now and am right after Obito "losing". Tobiramas feats almost contributed the most to the alliances success to me, right after Naruto and Sasuke. Minato, understandably, was in a really weird state of mind. Tobirama made all these crazy assessments and strategies, was always seemingly everywhere and helping in the blink of an eye. To me he is in the absolute highest league of "battlereadiness" with Madara, Itachi and a clear thinking Minato. Dudes who are 100% there, ready and calm at a moments notice. I'm saying this purely because of the disrespect Tobirama seems to be getting. He is extremely strong.
right? he was was one of the few who never seemed shook. like he was reincarnated years into his future, brought into a global battle with next level enemies (stronger than anyone/anything that he's faced), and is entirely clam, strategizing, and acting. I always liked that and noticed it immediately. like he just ooze "War, War never changes" vibes.
@@hoofhearted4 i agree with that tobirama is very switch on, but id say its only because he did not have any real emotional ties to this war, he was dead long before, im telling yah if you had switch obito with danzo or someone dare to tobirama, and say danzo was causing all the problems, tobirama might have been as out of wack as minato was.
@@momotheone9700 nope he wouldn’t of🗿minato isn’t “dazed”. He knows the world is at stake, an example being when kurama was released in the village he jumped in front of the claw to not only save Naruto but to detain kurama with the seal. He had the will to do that because of what was at stake. In the 4th war the same applies. I’d argue he was only in a temporary daze upon finding out what obito had done & that was it. Afterwards it faded & knew what he had to do to help out. So no when tobirama blatantly outplays him on multiple occasions it wasn’t due to some mental gyming “daze” or “nerf” cause of his state of mind. It was because tobirama is just better. All minato has over him is potentially travel speed which has no contribution to a combat fight besides running away🗿
@hennigod8957 you don't get over stabbing your former student who Killed you wife and attacked the village that easily tf its literally even started Naruto had to Cheer him up meanwhile Tobirama has to Get Obito Off Guard because he is not even KCM2 Level🗿
16:38 Just cause hashirama is superior to tobirama, doesn't necessarily mean he's faster. This is disingenuous to say. You can still be faster than someone and be scared of their power.
he's saying that because he knows Edo Madara reacts to KCM2 Naruto who is faster than base Minato due to implications of Minato being relative to KCM1 and Raikage in speed. Tobirama is faster than Hashirama and Madara, who is faster than Minato
@@louderanimationTV Faster in traveling speed is fine, that didn’t help him against Madara as he made him into a pin cushion 🤣 So I don’t see how that’s gonna help him against Hashirama either
@@Rck-vert The whole point of the statement was that madara only touched tobirama at all due to edo tensei nerf. The statement about him being the fastest is about prime Tobirama.
@@kakuzugoated873 the point of the statement was that Tobirama was boasted as the fastest shinobi yet he couldn’t out-sped Madara. Can u prove that the edo tensei is a big enough nerf to make a difference? They were stated to be close to their alive self and the speed gap between Madara and Tobirama is huge since he landed so many hits and immobilized him even tho he can teleport instantly.
One thing people need to differentiate with Minito is the speed of his teleportation and the speed of his actual movements . He wasn’t faster than 8 gates Gai he just teleported to him using his kunai which Lee threw in the air beforehand.
@@orion5565 Did you even watch the video? He literally explained that's not a speed feat since TSO are not fast at all and Guy 8 gates had slowed down. like wtf?
I'm sorry six but the idea that being scared of someone means they are faster than you is ridiculous tobirama can just be scared of hashirama because he knows his strength and chakra lvls and also because hashirama is his older sibling so he has the authority over him in serious situations that doesn't mean he's slower than base hashirama, speed is not the only determining factor of strength
Sure I absolutely agree with you, however it doesn't change the outcome and Tobirama himself saying that Minato is faster is the only part that matters! It was a silly comparison from six's part but in the end Minato still wins
@@liamwheelerl890 but in another chapter Tobirama saved Minato Sasuke and Naruto from a TSB explosion literally next to Minato by teleporting a clone there 1st and he himself said using a clone is slow.
@@sehun2193 you didn’t watch the video, did you? Minato was heavily nerfed (he was in a daze, via the databook) due to finding out Obito was the Masked Man. So Tobirama outsped a heavily nerfed Minato, which is an invalid feat.
@@MrMan2006 so the Daze affected him when Tobirama outspeeds him but not during any other parts of the war? That's convenient. Based on the wording, it looks like this Daze happens when he was observing Obito, not when he was in the heat of battle coz if it did then Hiruzen or Obito would have noticed him fighting weird.
@@sehun2193 He was in a “daze” up until he and Naruto combined their Rasengans in their Kurama avatars. Again, you’re exposing your lack of knowledge on the series and Minato. It’s stated that Naruto caused Minato to raise his spirits (or stupor). If you remember the moment, it was when they were fist bumping. Tobirama only outsped a severely mentally nerfed Minato, while a full power Minato can keep up with Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto who > Tobirama
One thing I wonder peopledon’t touch on Tobirama is his Senju heritage, the Uchiha inherited the strong chakra of the Rikudou and the Senju his body. Tobirama was the second strongest Senju right after Hashirama and should have pretty impressive chakra reserves and durability. Thoughts ?
@@ladellcalhoun8133 i understand, durable is not only about the hardness of skin, but also about longevity, endurance, stamina. 👍 senju's have better stamina, longevity & endurance than other clans. 👍
@@ladellcalhoun8133 i understand, but remember senju's and Uchiha's are direct descendants of otstustciki, Uzumaki's are cousins to senju. Senju are more connected to otstustciki in terms of gene's.
I give it tobirama for the following reasons: 1. Durability / chakra reserves (high tier senju body / chakra) 2. IQ (self explanatory, but not a massive gap) 3. jutsu pool (also self explanatory) 4. scaling off of izuna who was approximately = MS madara 5. the ability to utilize minato's kunai's / FTG seals. (yes minato is better with the technique, but him being able to use minato's own seals is a huge hinderance to minato) 6. Ruthlessness. Tobirama is mentally more strong and willing to kill
Ems and ms have a huge and I mean a huge gap ms madara would get claped by sage minato while ems dog walks every version of minato exept maybe kcm 2 from what we know (until minato manga drops) . Same with sasuke bro went from getting demolished by ay to fighting jubito on par with naruto.
@@ZaharJudah I literly just did take sasuke ms sasuke vs ay he got his ass beat but ems sasuke was holding his own with kcm 2 naruto who blized ay in only kcm 1 like yeah it's pretty easy to tell plus the constant drain and pain an ms user has to go through like sasuke described it every cellin your body lighting on fire until he got ems like they are not close
I mean yeah Madara looked down on Tobirama about how he used to be hailed as the fastest but in that same page he goes on about how there’s a reason Tobirama and Hashirama can’t release their full strength. So it’s not that Tobirama wasn’t fast but in the situation he’s at he can’t release that same level of speed
@@djjones2441 tbh the order that you arrived at the battle isn't a great feat. But the point is that Tobirama is clearly nerfed by being an Edo, and Minato got a KCM boost while an Edo, so we don't know if he is still slower than when he was alive or not. So for speed: Edo Tobirama < Alive Tobirama But Alive Minato( might be) < Edo KCM Minato Personally I think him having KCM is a greater buff than being an Edo is a nerf. So Edo KCM Minato is buffed while Edo tobirama is nerfed. (Compared to when talking alive vs alive) So when we scale alive Tobirama vs alive Minato, we have to assume Tobirama is faster than he was shown in war arc (nerfed by Edo), and Minato might be slower than shown in war arc (when he had chakra cloak).
@@TheToby121 this doesn’t address the argument at hand. Both minato and tobirama used BF to get to the battlefield and tobirama admitted to being slower than base minato. Also FTG is a teleportation jutsu. Unless instant teleportation can be nerfed, your comment holds no barring
Japanese here and I want to point out the translation 14:16 「忍一の速さを誇っていた」means "The Shinobi who had the best speed" in this context 「誇る」means "to boast", but in this type of usage it indicates the fact of "status/possesion" A common use is 「絶大な人気を誇る」which means and is also translanted in deepl as "Immensely popular" and NOT "Boasts about the immense popularity" Niether of the translations got it correct to be fair, since in Japanese, Tobirama having number 1 speed was a "fact", rather than "boast" or "hailed as"
When other shinobi says Minato is fast, his fan base doesn't have a problem. But when madara said that tobirama is faster, now all the bias Minato fans say, na, no, cant be, mistake, what, impossible. So bias. Tobirama can combat anyone, but madara and hashirama are more powerful.
@@bobjoe4847 Minato arrived before hashirama, too and madara is hashirama's rival, so madara too. Alive Minato was moving on par with young young obito, obito cant blitz hashirama or madara. Hashirama and tobirama arrived at same time on battle field, plus they were moving on par with each other against hiruzen in their fight. Madara said prime tobirama is faster than himself and others. So, if adult stronger obito can blitz hashirama, or madara with his speed, then Minato also can't. Minato also can't blitz tobirama or hashirama. Tobirama, hashirama, madara are much stronger than Minato, have more Chakra, stamina, etc. So i don't get why people think Minato can beat tobirama, or hashirama or madara. 👍
16:52 it’s respect not fear 🤣🤣 he has no reason to fear his brother. He knows that’s big brother. “Okay i know you’re serious about this brother, and I see you’re not worried so I won’t” is more of the sentiment.
Just a side note, that's why I hate these popularity votes for the short that will come out. We could have potentially seen more of the 1st or 2nd Great Ninja wars following the likes of Tobirama (for the 1st) or even someone like Hanzo who I think got a bit too much time in the series but cut up so much, that it'd be cool to see more of the 2nd Great War through his and the Rain village's POV. Instead we get more of the same characters who already have much of their stories already told getting all the votes.
I definitely get you, one example though not exactly a popular one is kaguya absolutely needs a One-Shot to give her an actual backstory, not whatever the anime or boruto tries to cook, Minato I feel got the push he got because we never get to see what he can fully do in Sage Mode thanks to Kishimoto dealing with issues involving his own father at the time.
Man, you went deep in your analysis. I always felt like Kishimoto shortchanged Tobirama in the combat department along with Jiraiya. But we shouldn't try to make up false evidence. Minato is just supposed to be stronger. That's not a bad thing.
@lethabomaunatlala7121' it's literally stated he was Dazed which we know Effects your capabilities of drawing your Mental Energy in Naruto 🗿 Edo Tobiramas Speed is not above Juubito man only Tagged Juubito because Hashirama Restrained him read the Panel again🗿 Can't believe people still using the Trash Alive Rennigan Madara Reaction Bullcrap even in 2023 Madara was clearly off Guard as he said it's it's Tobiramas M.O. to Attack when his Opponent has already thought he won
@lethabo maunatlalaIt’s obvious that u don’t have one clue what ur talking about. How tf can Tobirama be above KCM2 Naruto, u must be a delusional because this same Naruto is way stronger than Kinkaku and Ginkaku that literally killed this mf, tf u talking about. Tobirama speed isn’t even above Juubito speed tf, just because he reacted to him doesn’t prove that, and it never implied that Juubito was going full speed against him in the first place. Lastly how tf is Prime Tobirama way stronger than Madara lmao ur arguments are fucking killing me. If the guy wasn’t even stronger than him when alive, and had to literally hid behind a tree couldn’t do shit to him but watch Hashirama handle him how tf is he supposed to be stronger than Edo Madara lmao. Ur comments are fucking killing me, I swear u don’t have one clue about nothing ur saying lmao.
whats wrong with tobirama being faster than madara and hashirama? he uses ftg so it makes perfect sense he is, even if hashirama scared him it doesnt mean anything, a velociraptor could be intimidated by a t-rex despite being faster than him
he is talking about movement speed not teleportation speed, I feel like people who scale these characters need to clarify this more, because to the casual audience it can become confusing
@@nathansanrochman5018 then yes minato has better travel speed than tobirama, tho tobirama still has the edge on him, more chackra smarter, stronger phisically, more range attacks jutsu
@@drowning.macaco more chakra against someone with sage mode,stronger physically name one tobirama physical feat above Minato cutting a eight tails tail,and more range won't matter when Minato gonna rasengan combo him also this is not mentioning Tobi has no durability feats
@@gameuniverse5973 Minato has even worse durability than Tobirama. He will just blitz minato like he blitzed juubito and tag him with a paper bomb. Minato straight up gets 1 shot
I give it to Tobirama based on chackra reserves. They have very similar techniques, but Tobirama seems to have that Senju chackra tank that would him in the fight for hours.
One AP scalling Minato has is his Rasengan scalling from Naruto's unfinished Rasenshuriken (the one he used against Kakuzu). The "Story so Far..." manga segment right after the fight (can't remember the exact chapter number) contains a statement about Naruto performing a "display of power that rivals even the Forth Hokage himself".
The rasenshuriken was completed at that point as far as I can remember, he just didn’t have the durability or regeneration to tank its effect as it damaged his own hand
@@Rck-vert the attacks could be equal, but the 50% would be because naruto himself was training for 3 days before the fight, even if he had gpt the jutsu to 100% it would still damage him, and he also could not whitstand the power, the difference with minato and naruto is naruto is just not physically as strong as minato at this time, minato can easily whitstand his rasengans that scale to narutos 50%rasenshurikens and minato whielding that type of power cause no damage or not much chakra depletion, thats the only difference that im able to see at that time.
I find it odd that to this day people compare speed between the two when the technique they use is teleportation. It comes down to calculation, not speed.
No. There is body flicker jutsu, which is a technique where you boost your movement speed with chakra. Also mistranslated in some of the manga to "teleportation." There is also ftg, which is a technique where you instantly travel via wormhole between two points, which is actual teleportation. When they first approach the 4th war battlefield, Minato arrives first, because his body flicker is so far beyond the ability of the others There is also reaction speed. The speed at which you can be aware of something and then act once you are aware. Ftg is the same speed, but the reaction to activate it and the body flicker allowing you to move while acting or reacting are both faster for Minato.
One thing Naruto youtubers never do, is actually creating a scene where they explain how they would actually fight each other. Usally you only compare them, but never set up the fight ! I wish someone would starting doing this.
In my book tobirama wins. They are equally smart. Minato is better with FTG (but Tobirama is really good at it too) Minato is faster (but Tobirama is top tier too) Minato has the rasengan and advanced sealing techniques. Thats all for Minato (unless he is edo with 9 tails. Then he wins) Tobirama mastered 5 elements. He is the strongest or second strongest suiton user. He is phisically superior, he has more chakra, stamina and resistance. Tobirama has more experience. He know more about jutsus and stuff. He has more options in combat because his jutsu arsenal is big and diverse. He is better with shadow clones (we never see Minato use it, also, just because Tobirama has more chakra to use them). He can use edo tensei and would use it. When the edo kage came back to life, they thought the user of edo tensei was tobirama. That means he use to use the jutsu. Its true that tobirama version of the jutsu was not near as good as orochimaru/kabuto's , but he had the paper bomb technique. Also, in a direct fight, it doesnt matter if Minato is better at FTG because beying prepared with marked kunai would help tobirama that would use the marks for his own advantage. Minato would hace a hard time fighting in a water scenario. I think minato has 30% chance to outsmart or suprise Minato and beat him in the first minute of the fight. If he cant surprise him and make the fight short, then is GG for him because in a longer battle Tobirama has more resources and stamina and chakra and would win. When minato was fighting Obito in the konoha kyubi attack, he mentioned beying low on chakra after a couple of FTG. That would never happen to Tobirama Senju who can intimidate Orochimaru, Sasuke, Suigetsu, Karin and Juugo with his chakra by just manifest it moving a finger.
Tobiram has 5 nature style, big woop minato has 3 plus he can summon his toads to use water or earth, or oil combined with fire. Plus none if tobirama jutsus are as fast as himself when using ftg which means he needs a little time to do it, enough time for minato to counter. We see minato teleporting point blank fromraikages fastest hits, teleported out mid kamui, plus we sse him teleporting attacks at the level of nine and tentails so an attack from tobirama waterstyles or any of his other 4 factually weaker natures would not pressure minatothat mich he can evade and teleport away easily plus his rasengan is literally just raw chakra which would hard counter tobirama nature types, thats why i dont validate having nature type as any big deal in this fight. As for you know tobirama having more chakra or being physically stronger, idk about being physically stronger, minato was gonna kill ay through his lightning armor with his kunai, just sayin🤷♂️ then you have his rasengans being relative to narutos 50% rasenshurikens, did you see what that shit did to kakuzu? And minato can spam that after blitzing you with NO HANDSEALS REQUIRED, naruto could only do that shit once and only spammed it after sage mode training which boodt his base durability, and even then he still needed sage mode to handle that type of power, im not saying minato is physically as strong as sage naruto, as for the chakra argument, i can just say minato proven that he can fight on the level of perfect jichurikis, ninetails, madara threat level people with him controling his own reserve of chakra, and that he has better control over his chakra than tobirama since hes better sealer, better user of ftg and he created rasengan which is perfect shape transformation, i can just make that argument that with minato level of chakra control the difference in chakra quantity does not matter, i can also say minato just used up a lot if chakra in holding the seal down for kushina to give birth before obito even appear, so that could be the reason why the stick cut him, or thats why he did use clones, or was fatigued after teleporting kurama, i can also say it takes 3 A rank jonin combinding all their chakra together to use ftg once, yet minato spams that shit like swiping left on tinder, see how sasy it is to prove minato has a tonne of chakra?even sage mode is proof the only people with sage mode consistently is people with sulignificantly high chakra reserve, hashirama, naruto, sage kabuto, jiraiya mitsuki from boruto through body mod still loads of chakra, kashin koji and look at that minato also, see how consistent that was, at worst tobirama is slightly higher not even enough of a difference to mention, Also kalvin allen, dude just stop, just admit you like tobirama more than minato thats fine, but dont act like your a minato fan whose confused about minatos writing just say you think minato is fodder and tobirama stomps, stop hiding behind people lame arguments because its clear you dont really analyse minato at all, you just use one fight to judge and thats the ninetails attack, because thats the only way to say minato struggled against someone that he maybe should not have( which tbh tobirama would struggle as well in those circumstances). So just admit it, i admit im a minato fan, i dont hate tobirama, but i just think how ppl go to try to wank tobirama is by shitting on minato scaling by saying oh he lost to 14 year old cripple, oh he got his hands chopped off by juubito and juubidara,for example simple shit like that.
@@momotheone9700 I think a lot.of things that you mention are right. First of all, I agree that Minato's fight with Obito durying 9tails attack is nothing but a showcase of how excellent of a shinobi minato is. I also agree that, one of the things that Minato do better than Tobirama is using ftg. We dont know if tobirama can teleport big bijudamas and things like that and im.sure he cant. The thing about the chakra nature is also true, minato has some too. But ill say that at this level, minato's chakra nature wpuldnt make the different. Same with most tobirama's chakra natures. But tobirama's suiton would do. Of course, maybe if he shoots a water dragon or something Minato can teleport it away. But what if he transforms the battlefild in water like the 30% kisame clone (he is stated to be able to make tsunamis). Thats not a direct attack that you can just dodge or teleport away. He would change the terrain to his advantage. That is important. Of course minato can tp away, but in this fight, thats an option for both at any time and its stupid to consider it. Also, i.know that minato was going.to attack A with a kunai but idk man. You really think minato could pierce A armor with just a kunai? Do you really think he can make more damage with a kunai than the rasenshuriken? Remember, this guy uses rasengan and was trying to create elemental rasengan to increase his fighting power. If he had the strenght to just kunai A why bother? He would be the god of the verse. I love both characters. I just think bith have fans that dont analyse them objectibly. I can be wrong about tobirama being stronger. I just think thats ehat the story imply durying the war arc. But there is so.much that we dont know about them. Like, Minato.is suposed to be a master of shadowclones but never saw him doing even one. And Tobirama is supposed to be the best water style.user but havent seen what he is able to do because first fight against hiruzdn he was a really nerfed edo tensei, and second time in the war he didnt use it because obito was inmune to ni jutsu. Also both of them only have bad showings about top tier characters like madara and juubito wich means nothing. Even hashirama.was stumped by juubito. I think they are closer than their fans want to bealive. Either tobirama sompts Minato.or Minato stomps the second. I dont agree. I think they are in the same tier (unless we count edo Minato with 9 tails). And I tend to bealive that Tobirama is a little bit better.
@@momotheone9700 i understand, however im a true Minato fan, but i dont like bias. Minato constantly gets support from my fellow fans, its clear Minato possibly has more fans than tobirama. So why not help out tobirama. I keep telling people, in order to power scale characters we must ignore our personal feelings for them. Example: it was clear, the senju's and Uchiha's are from otstustciki, they naturally have more Chakra and potential, along with the Uzumaki. The senju clan is known as the clan of 1000 skills. They are proficient in taijutsu, ninjutsu, genjutsu. Two of the strongest sealing & barrier jutsu used, were used by hashirama, a senju. The first FTG seal used, was by tobirama, the edo tensei requires knowledge of seal's, his unique paper bombs has unique seal's on them, other villages can seal their tailed beast away, but for some bias , silly reason people think that stupid, foolish, unsmart, idiot tobirama is terrible at barrier, seal's and sealing jutsu???? Minato has shown a consistent pattern of using jutsu's that others have created, tobirama has shown a consistent pattern of creating & using his own jutsu, so why do people think Minato is a better sealer?? What ever stamina or Chakra Minato has, tobirama has way more, he is a natural senju. Kishimooto is a great writer but he didn't carefully think through Minato and obito's characters. Example: Minato was moving on par with young obito, obito who is inferior to hashirama, madara and Tobirama. But in war arc, edo weakened Minato can out speed hashirama, tobirama and possibly madara to the battle field. Bad writing by kishimooto. In data book created by kishimooto, says that raikage speed is not inferior to Minato, further confusion, tsunade and bee compared kcm 1 naruto with Minato in speed. However, alive hashirama is shown perfectly fighting madara and ninetails, perfectly reacting to and combating a ems madara in close combat. Tobirama was moving on par with hashirama in part 1 against hiruzen. Edo weakened Tobirama arrived same time with edo hashirama to battle field. Edo tobirama with no ninetails Chakra, or hashirama sage mode or frog sage was easily reacting to, coordinating, thinking, blitz, fighting onpar with the likes of people like ems sauske, kcm2 naruto, madara, etc. Madara even acknowledged that tobirama is faster in prime and was severely weakened in edo form along with hashirama. Tobirama blitz jubito, tagged and marked him with ftg seal and paper bombs. Jubito was unstable, but stable enough to break out of deity gates, red barrier, fight hiruzen like a boss, moved so fast that kcm 1 naruto said , "" what, what happened ". Minato said , "he's fast" But a much much much more unstable version of jubito ( shape shifting) was able to blitz and grabbed kcm naruto and sauske by their faces. Tobirama took on a much more stable version of obito and tagged him several times. (He allowed him self to get hit by obito, even sauske said that the hokages were sacrificing themselves to figure out jubitos abilities ) Kcm Minato, after seeing edo weakened tobirama speed said, " the second is so fast "( in manga). A very unstable jubito, did what war arc raikage couldn't do, he blitz and grabbed them by their faces 😳. Remember, Minato speed is not consistent, because there is so much inconsistencies as i mentioned above already. Taking all of this into consideration, people still think that Minato can blitz tobirama. Im mot saying that tobirama is stronger than madara or hashirama, but combining his own speed with FTG makes him faster, he can already move on par with hashirama, the god of shinobi. There is not much i can say about Minato, because everyone is already saying it all. Tobirama doesn't get enough representation like Minato from the community. 👍 i like both characters alot, but Minato cant beat or blitz tobirama. 👍 in the manga both edo weakened tobirama and kcm Minato were going to teleport the beast bombs jubito was getting ready to fire at the shinobi force, meaning that tobirama can also deal with tail beast bombs. And was shown doing every thing Minato can with the FTG . But i wonder why didn't stable jubito didn't just walk up to slow slow tobirama and put him out of the fight, but instead edo weakened tobirama with no ninetails Chakra, or sage mode or tailed beast Chakra, was there reacting, blitz, tagging, thinking, moving fighting ???? Like, how many times have tobirama came into contact with jubito, shouldn't jubito just blitz him with his god like speed??? Im not saying tobirama is stronger than jubito . After madara got back his real body, before getting hashirama sage Chakra madara broke out of deity gates, something only jubito was shown doing, so just imagine how much stronger and faster tobirama and hashirama are in prime. 👍 im not saying all these things to make you or anyone feel bad. Ok 👍 👌 its always fun debating you Momo 👍👏👊🙏
Good work Six this is much better than your usual biased video. One of your best probably. There are just a couple of things that I want to say. -When Tobirama reacts to Madara, Madara after the fight literally says "I've always wanted to do this", meaning Madara was indeed going for the kill -When Tobirma puts 5 paper tags a 1 flying raijin mark is ineed a good speed feat. Minato right after that says "SO FAST" or in another transaltions "SO SWIFT" meaning he was indeed fast if it's coming from Minato. + No one has been able to react to Jubito himself, they only react to their Truth seeking orbs no one actually reacts to Jubito. -And when you mentioned the Dazed part of the video you could've mentioned how he was not acutally dazed and it was a misstranslation since the kanji means SAD because being SAD and dazed are 2 big differences. Even tho I disagree and I think Tobirama wins this was definitly way better than your usual video. Keep it up man
Fax, this video didn't trigger me at all like I was watching Swag wank Minato at max and giving no props to Tobirama, good job to Six for finally being the first person to make a good argument for Minato.
@@lipe9039 perfectly summarised how I felt, since they’re friends I was hoping for a max level wank but he actually was giving both characters a fair way of scaling.
where i feel most of this is fair, to debunk the debunk of the tobirama teleporting the truth seeking orb, it IS a speed feat becaust it was a clone and it was stated later by tobirama that his clones are slower at using flying raijin compared to the origional. so yes in most cases teleportation is instant, it actually could have been faster if it was the origional and not the clone. but by how much who knows, however it was enough of a difference for tobirama to not want to use a clone in the combo attack with minato and the others.
I haven't even watched the video, and i already know that it's gonna be shit, with all respect to six i heavily don't agree that minato can beat tobirama, not even 4th raikage, no hate for u six ur cool tho, but ur fanboying minato
Idk how you could call it a tobirama W tbh. Maybe if kishi had actually given tobi better water style feats like originally intended but even then idk man
We need someone to revive Tobirama as edo and seal him into Sarada after she becomes hokage, that would be giga funny. The Tobirama jinchuuriki part had me rolling lmao
Appreciate you going through the effort of not only using the original kanji for context, but also using AI for help interpreting, that’s some dedication to the craft right there. Might have to “hail” you as one of the best scalers if you keep that up 👍
I had an idea for a what-if fight: Sage Hashirama and EMS Madara (both are in their prime) vs Juubito, imagine a hypothetical Majestic Attire Thousand Arm Buddha Statue throwing hands with a Ten Tail Jinchuriki on the battlefield.
@@gameuniverse5973 Idk, Hashirama's base wood golem deflected a 9tails bijuudama so Im sure a majestic attire bhudda statue would tank a 10 Tails one.
I think one thing you forgot six in this battle debate is that tobirama is a senju and senjus have an extreme amount of chakra reserves being the direct descendants of ashura. They also are really tenacious and resilient just like their cousins the uzumaki clan.
Thats what i've been saying 👍 Minato scales to younger obito. And minato with his body flicker he could jumper better to cover more distance. Not even hashirama would have issues dealing with younger obito, and hashi dont even have FTG. Minato Needs FTG, to beat or stalemate people that tobirama, madara or hashi could beat without FTG. 👍
10 min in, and so far this is the best down to earth minato and tobirama scaling. Haven't hit the speed portion yet, so I'm not overly optimistic, but I'm glad u mentioned several points that get overlooked or forgotten
@@ZaharJudah spoiler for the minato manga But in the new manga minato is compared to hashirama from kurama who actually fought him and minato also used a rasengan while hurt against kurama’s tailed beast bomb which is full power probably slightly weakened which is amazing for minato at 15 to do
@@Telkkinzzz-artWell said. I agree with most of what you said 👏🙏👍. However, when tobirama said that he cant teleport every one like minato can, here is the reason: minato said he cant teleport any thing that he himself or his chakra is touching. Minato can teleport everyone that has his ninetails chakra, remember. And the fact tobirama can use minato's seal or hack them, just shows he is not inferior to minato with FTG. At times in the war tobirama was able to link himself to minato & naruto's chakra to teleport away those in danger. He switch places with Kcm daze minato, this same minato blitz kcm 1 naruto & sauske. Daze minato at times out performed kcm 1 naruto & sauske. So daze kcm minato is far above raikage, early ems sauske, & kcm 1 naruto. But yet his speed & ftg use can be matched by Edo tobi, especially since he was the one coordinating, moving, thinking, & teleporting with minato. 👍 Another point to prove the uselessness of body flicker jutsu & minatos bflicker jutsu: Minato got to the battle field before all the hokages, using bflicker, yes. But through out his life, & all the fights we see him in, his body flicker is so so so useful to him, that he always have to rely on FTG. Against raikage, bee, young obito, even in his kcm mode, when helping guy, when fighting madara, when fighting Onoki's 50 ninjas, in his new one shot. 👍. Minato cant seem to RELY on his body flicker jutsu 🤔, why🤔. Maybe kishimooto implemented bflicker in the series to make ninjas look kool or something. Also, hiruzen arrived on the battle field with his hands on the ground, so its obvious he wasn't running, but rather jumping. Body flicker is jumping, but faster than you would normally jump. Depending on your skills with it, that will determine how far & high you can jump. 👍🙏. Also, look at it this way, hashi arrived after minato, because minato his better at the bflicker jutsu. Now, if bflicker makes you faster in combat, then that means minato is faster than hashi. However, im pretty sure Minato didn't beat obito with bflicker, it was FTG. Hashi cant use FTG but im pretty sure he can blitz young young obito. Madara can too. And toibirama, who was moving & reacting on par with hashi against hiruzen in part one wouldn't even need FTG to blitz younger younger obito. Its no wonder tobirama hardly uses FTG. His life dont depends on it 😂. Minato, however, is always always always, always using FTG. Not only because he's good at it, but also because HIS LIFE DEPENDS on it 🫣😔. Hashi dont need FTG to blitz raikage, or bee. Madara dont too. We even see edo weakened madara reacting to KCM 1 NARUTO and blitzing him. So please tell me how is bflicker useful in a combat situation? And what role did such an awesome technique (bflicker) played in any of the fights in naruto manga/ anime/ novels/ oneshots? Im not saying these things to offend you or anyone, ok. 👍🙏👏👍. Much love ✌️.
I am team Tobirama but the point I want to make here is that it's stated very clearly in part 1 that your chakra strength is in part affected by your state of mind. Minato being sad directly nerfs the potency and amount of his chakra. It is a shonnen after all, so every time you resolve yourself mentally to fight your hardest, you actually are getting buffed. But this is explained in-universe as the spiritual effect on your chakra. Every time in the series someone is emotionally conflicted they are weaker and every time they are making a stand for what they believe in or to protect someone, they will get stronger.
@@hennigod8957 you meam the statment where tobirama was said to be the fastest of his time madara not really knowing about minato and where madara no diffed him right before the statmemt oh and best part tobirama called minato faster than himself and better at flying raijin, im genuinly wondering if you watch/read naruto or even watched the video
@@dylandownie4989 it seems you haven’t read or seen the show properly lmfao. “ look at you who use to boast the fastest speed of any shinobi, but I’m the one the heavens are smiling upon. There’s a reason why you two brothers can’t regain your full power, whether coincidence or inevitable IVE got the edge right now” so not only does he say tobirama alive is faster then himself but also that tobirama & hashirama if they were at full power it would be an apparent problem for him. Simple as that. He knows plenty about minato. He’s the one that dictated rins death to obtain Obito. White zetsu has literally been info providing for years up until his death & he fought against multiple times in the war & never praises him once about anything🗿 Ofc the outcome was going to be obvious although it was offscreen, therefore we can’t assume anything due to no context. & lastly, what he meant has two interpretations but either of them don’t really matter. Firstly, if he said bodyflicker all that means is his travel speed is faster (long distance travel) that’s it but if he said ftg then he just praised his ftg twice for its versatility which means pre much nothing in a combat sense between the two lol.
Tobirama > Minato. Hes got better feats in the war, better ap, better speed, better battle iq, etc. On top of that every minato fan loves wanking all the quotes and stuff about him and acting like its true, vs when its about tobirama its, "so like madara says hes the fastest buuuuut idk like maybe not doe 😳" Honestly Tobirama being below Minato is mega bullshit mainstream thinking. Minato fans almost as bad as Itachi fans at this point. smh
Its bad writing by kishimooto. I like kishimooto but he didn't carefully think through Minato and obito's characters . Kishimooto even wrote in data book that war arc raikage speed is not inferior to Minato. 👍
@@percivalknightoftheflames855 Kinkaku "Unit" of 20 S-Rank Ninja's and Tobirama was exhausted already from fighting in the war and suppressed from having to fight and get them away from Hiruzen, Danzo, Koharu, Homura, Kagami & Torifu ;)
Tobirama has Better reaction feats, uses edos in fights as backed by hiruzen, and can flood the battle field with water style. Or jsut use water style in general to keep his kunai at range. Easy stomp for tobirama people are just biased
Is that why Ginaku and Kinaku Look down on him even seeing the 3rd Raikage as more impressive? Sure the 4th Raikage saw them as an Threat but he saw Minato as Unsurpassable
@@SoullessFNthe same Feats you try to use which has Tobirama catching someone who is Restrained try again and yes I take Author Intent over Feats anyday of the Week because Minato Also has Legitimate Feats that back this shit up
I love how six went way, way, waaayyyy out of his way with the whole "boasted" statement from madara conversing with multiple sources, and doing Olympic level mental gymnastics JUST to make tobirama look bad. #tobiramahateisreal
@PriestessOfTheDivineDragon Just because Tobirama is important to the series, doesn't mean he beats Minato. Tobirama is shown time and time again to be weaker than Minato, and if you want to talk about importance, well Minato is the father of the series main character, LOL
One note about tobiroma is that he was never at full power in edo idk if u mention it or not so even if minato had a mental nerf tobiroma wasn’t at full power according to madra
@@percivalknightoftheflames855 we don’t know how strong those 20 ninjas were, so according to your immature logic these 20 s rank ninja could be the same level as kakashi. This minato vs tobirama is bs since we never see tobirama in a 1v1 combat apart from izuna.A lot of these videos people still are guessing and speculating
Well said. I agree with most of what you said 👏🙏👍. However, when tobirama said that he cant teleport every one like minato can, here is the reason: minato said he cant teleport any thing that he himself or his chakra is touching. Minato can teleport everyone that has his ninetails chakra, remember. And the fact tobirama can use minato's seal or hack them, just shows he is not inferior to minato with FTG. At times in the war tobirama was able to link himself to minato & naruto's chakra to teleport away those in danger. He switch places with Kcm daze minato, this same minato blitz kcm 1 naruto & sauske. Daze minato at times out performed kcm 1 naruto & sauske. So daze kcm minato is far above raikage, early ems sauske, & kcm 1 naruto. But yet his speed & ftg use can be matched by Edo tobi, especially since he was the one coordinating, moving, thinking, & teleporting with minato. 👍 Another point to prove the uselessness of body flicker jutsu & minatos bflicker jutsu: Minato got to the battle field before all the hokages, using bflicker, yes. But through out his life, & all the fights we see him in, his body flicker is so so so useful to him, that he always have to rely on FTG. Against raikage, bee, young obito, even in his kcm mode, when helping guy, when fighting madara, when fighting Onoki's 50 ninjas, in his new one shot. 👍. Minato cant seem to RELY on his body flicker jutsu 🤔, why🤔. Maybe kishimooto implemented bflicker in the series to make ninjas look kool or something. Also, hiruzen arrived on the battle field with his hands on the ground, so its obvious he wasn't running, but rather jumping. Body flicker is jumping, but faster than you would normally jump. Depending on your skills with it, that will determine how far & high you can jump. 👍🙏. Also, look at it this way, hashi arrived after minato, because minato his better at the bflicker jutsu. Now, if bflicker makes you faster in combat, then that means minato is faster than hashi. However, im pretty sure Minato didn't beat obito with bflicker, it was FTG. Hashi cant use FTG but im pretty sure he can blitz young young obito. Madara can too. And toibirama, who was moving & reacting on par with hashi against hiruzen in part one wouldn't even need FTG to blitz younger younger obito. Its no wonder tobirama hardly uses FTG. His life dont depends on it 😂. Minato, however, is always always always, always using FTG. Not only because he's good at it, but also because HIS LIFE DEPENDS on it 🫣😔. Hashi dont need FTG to blitz raikage, or bee. Madara dont too. We even see edo weakened madara reacting to KCM 1 NARUTO and blitzing him. So please tell me how is bflicker useful in a combat situation? And what role did such an awesome technique (bflicker) played in any of the fights in naruto manga/ anime/ novels/ oneshots? Im not saying these things to offend you or anyone, ok. 👍🙏👏👍. Much love ✌️.
Still watching so maybe it's mentioned. But he said madara doesn't have good punching or kicking feats, but madara's limbo one shotted each of the tailed beasts
19:30 after that shot is also when Juubito realized he can't use Kamui. Meaning he got hit because he let them hit him, expecting that they would simply pass thru with Kamui.
you said winning a battle off speed alone isn’t really possible but before you said the 2nd wouldn’t be scared of the 1st if he could just out speed… i took that as seen with the 1st and 2nd as a sign of respect since the first is the 2nd older brother
His statement holds strong cuz even with a speed advantage Tobirama couldn't kill Hashirama but Hashirama could stil kill him The difference is with a speed advantage Tobirama could just get away from Hashirama wich is probably wat Six ment where as if he was slower (outside of ftg) he can't do anything except teleport til he is exhausted
I may have left a comment a year ago, but I just did a rewatch and have to say that you are being very fair to both characters here. After the one shot there is a fair split between whether Minato's interaction with the Nine-Tails there was an actual battle of chakras or more of a metaphorical showing of a battle of wills. I happen to believe the latter, and it was hinting at Minato shared Hashirama's Will of Fire, not that I think it changes anything you've said here. I just wanted to mention a couple of things you may have missed for some more accurate Tobirama stuff. In the Juubito blitz showing, if you look closely, you can see that paper bombs had been placed on both the side that hit Tobirama's edo and the side that hit the wood clone. So you can't just assume they stuck to his body. At least you can't argue that the ones on his left side weren't placed. This is also when he marks him, as there is more evidence that this was the time they interacted than assuming he ran up to him last second before the bombs exploding. All that being said, it is only a reaction feat, and at best just means he may have been able to get a bit more out of the way, but not that he's faster than even unfocused Juubito. The One-Rinneganed, Hashirama Cells, Sage Mode enhanced, extrasensory Madara loss isn't really an antifeat in my opinion. Just more of broken Madara being broken. I don't think your him being slower than base Hashirama and Madara argument is all that solid. Any of there other forms would have precognition even if you wanted to say Tobirama and Minato are still faster, and their arsenals are vast enough to pack up either despite it. The speed, power, area of effects, etc, of Sage Hashirama and EMS/Rinnegan Madara's jutsus are just far too much for either of the two from this video could handle. Even if you gave alive Minato KCM2 perfected sage mode, SM Hashirama and Rinnegan Madara just steal Kurama's chakra, or EMS Madara summons the full Nine-Tails, clads it in Full Susanoo armor, and starts making it rain bladed bijuu-damas. Sidenote, because we don't really have confirmation on what Madara's Mangekyo powers are, it is crazy to think EMS Madara still might have something up his sleeve. That being said, I personally think the limbo clones are at least one of his sharingan abilities. The reason is that Nagato and the Six Paths of Pain didn't have anything that really messed with dimensions and reality unless you count soul hacks. That's Sharingan stuff. Plus, those eyes are Madara's anyway, so they used to be Sharingan. The only others we see with similar abilities have Rinne-Sharingan or are Otsutski. He didn't really need it until after he regained his body, and it would be next to useless against SM Hashirama until he got up close due to the time-limit. Another reason I think it is his Mangekyo is that the ability is his, and no one else has anything like it really. The last thing I'll nitpick is Tobirama's wincon, I believe the flying Raijin slash is a superior technique to the Minato's ftg based attacks. My reason in that Tobirama can teleport to you with his sword already connecting, where a lot of the time Minato is seen teleporting often with an attack loaded but then has to move to connect. I don't know if there are outliers for Minato though. I believe I've heard it negs durability and is effectively hitting the same spot innumerable times in that same instant of teleportation, but don't quote me on that one. So yeah, I think Minato has more consistent showings of being better overall. It even goes with the narrative of getting better than your predecessors, and Minato was clearly inspired by Tobirama. So it just makes sense. I will just say that people that think Tobirama stands no chance against base Hokage or Jonin Minato are doing to much. Again I'll clarify, IF you assume the one-shot comic was a battle of wills like I do. If you think that younger Minato clashed a regular rasengan with full Nine-Tails bijuu bomb, he absolutely slams Tobirama on his neck in the aforementioned forms as well. I think Tobirama could possibly deal with the Nine-Tails being fairly smart and also knows sealing jutsu and such, but I'd be lying to myself if I said he had anything that could stop that bijuu bomb in the same way if it was FP Kurama. Oh! And kind of PS, I guess. Water is weak to Earth on the chakra wheel, and his water slicing wave cut through HIRUZEN SARUTOBI'S mudwall like butter. So that should count for something. Though I'm not sure if that was anime only or not.
I’m in no way fluent in Japanese although I’ve been studying the language for 2 years now (formally) so I would like to take a crack at translating the Madara statement in my own words. I took the one at 14:19 of the video to the left since it’s the only one that makes sense (online translations can get funky when trying to go back and forth between them). Here goes: I’d translate it as: You were proud of being called the fastest shinobi, yet you’re in a mess/sorry state. Really he’s mocking Tobirama and more so talking like this (using slang): You were so proud of being called the fastest but now look at you, it’s pitiful. Given context and what he says about him having the upper hand on the Senju bros now with them not being at full power the second translation makes the most sense.
To break down, the first part 忍一の速さ just means fastest shinobi. 誇って means to be proud (could say boast but the verb is to be proud) with the って meaning “called” or “named” as part of heresay. It’s used when you’re quoting what you’ve heard/been told. ていた is another grammar point meaning doing something continuous in the past. The last part he’s basically just saying yet here you are now on the ground. Basically again taunting him that he’s not at his full power and he has the upper hand being revived
@@emssasukeisunderrated7946 thank you for this, I think the statement in the video was a bit off and bias. I doesn’t make sense for the writers to put “boasted” since we know tobirama was actually the fastest of his Time
@@shawngarcia3920 Thank you. I’m not sure if it was bias but understandable it was a bit off given he’s using chat gpt (which as also a computer science guy who’s into NLP/ML I love the model) which online translations especially for Japanese are not the best half the time.
Just wait for Noodles AP Base Minato AP is ass so let's move on. KCM Minato: KCM Minato should theoretically have the same as KCM2 Naruto not Sage Mode KCM2, meaning he can use Tail Beast bombs, Massive Rasengans, BIg Kurama Avatar. Tobirama: This is a stretch, but in part 1, Tobirama and Hashirama are nerfed equally. It seems their striking strength is the same. Base Hashirama's striking strength >/~ EMS Madara's striking strength. EMS Madara ~ alive 1 Rinnegan sage mode Madara due to Hashirama saying he is starting to regain his former strength after he got Hashirama's Sage Mode. The same Madara sends a limbo clone, which should still equal the real Madara, to punch all the tail beasts to the floor. Add that with the fact that live 1 Rinnegan sage mode Madara thinks Hashirama or Tobirama would beat him if they were alive. Tobirama: he can use Tandem Paper Bombs because he has reanimations on hand due to him needing reanimations to activate it, and Hiruzen has seen it already. Speed Base Minato: You fail to mention that 14-year-old Obito can react to Minato. Minato does have faster travel speed than Tobirama, But what happens when he runs up to Tobirama? Is he going to have the combat and reaction speed to be fast enough to hit Tobirama? It is possible for you to hit faster than you run. Kcm Minato: Kcm Minato was dazed, but he got out of his daze after Naruto talked to him, and after his dazed, he was seen running and reaching Obito with War arc Kakashi at the same speed meaning that Kcm Minato should be relative to War arc Kakashi, who is relative to Obito, who is relative to KCM2 Naruto in speed. Tobirama: Tobirama can tag 10-tails Obito 6 times (5 Paper bombs and a Flying Thunder God seal) when 10-tails Obito only hit him once (The paper bombs did not fly out of his body, meaning inside Tobirama because those are regular paper bonds, not Tandem Paper Bombs). Hashirama being stronger than Tobirama does not necessarily mean he has to be faster; Tobirama can be faster but not a speed Blitz of a difference. Tobirama: Edo Madara can react to KCM2 Naruto. And Tobirama can react to alive 1 Rinnegan Sage Mode Madara. Madara wasn't holding back; he literally said he would take things more seriously now after he summons the Gedo statue. Conclusion So Tobirama Speed Blitz and One shot
You guys are so lame dont even know how to scale.. Tobirama even as a weaken edo was able to keep up with old huruzen who is relative to orochimaru, orochimaru~jiraiya who is stated to master abilities above the 5 great nations, which should include the kages, proof hiruzen is above the kages is that even after hiruzen came back in the 4th war, he was the same as he left only that he has more stamina, and he was able to do better than the 5 kage who got stronger as the war went on, so tobirama full power >~ hiruzen> 5kage. Minato>~ obito~> pain>> 5kage. Minato> hiruzen 13 years before orochimaru fight, orochimaru being above 5kage, when hiruzen was around 13 years before the orochimaru fight, minato was considered the fastest shinobi, obito kept up with that briefly, minato beat him still putting both>> hiruzen>> old hiruzen~> 5kage, this makes minato being faster than raikage and killer bee consistent. Before we knew that obito was behind the mask, based off feats we were lead to believe it was madara, obito was definitely not shown as a 14 year old wimp slouch, he was demonstrated as very powerful and minato beating him was presented as one of the greatest feats in the show, so using that as a way to downplay minato does not work especially when we learn he has hashirama cell amp, plus he was doing madara level stuff as said before. Plus like as i said both obito and minato scake over hiruzen in speed at the time, if hiruzen in edo is relative to tobirama, tobirama against izuna, who was half blind, was bearly able to beat him with ftg, his ftg was definitely not its best, yet you have this minato who can use ftg to perfection thinking obito was madara and thinking kamui is better than tobirama and minatos respectively, this means that tobirama would also struggle against 14 year old obito, but he would know its not madara though. Another debunk here is kcm1> minato thats not true, its already debunked but basically naruto admitted that 4th raikage not even at top speed can keep up with bijuu mode, raikage is telling kcm naruto, that while minato was alive he didnt see him losing to anyone. So naruto didnt really get the raikage credit until he move faster than his top speed, similar feat to what minato did as a jonin mind you. Which is consistent that only times naruto is compared to minato was when hes full power going at his max speed, and six debunk the bee statement killer bee knows what ftg is so hes not comparing naruto just getting kcm to minato with ftg, just his body flicker, which makes sense, so minato should be faster still than basic kcm1. Tobirama lost to kinkaku and ginkaku, twice, very cut and dry, first time he had help from the raikage yet he was left near death, despite his 5 chakra natures his flying raijin, his edo tensei, tandem paperbombs, his bringer of darkness, all those jutsu he had them all against the gold and silver brothers, yet he lost,twice, the second time was more understandable, but the first time, no sir he was not him for that, minato fought like Ay and killer bee, and left them convinced hesvone of the greatest shinobi they ever fought, force the literal 8tails jinchuriki to put their lives on the line, was giving them the works, raikage did not show that much respect for kin and gin, and killer bee is stronger than any 8tails that they have seen, yet minato was able to beat them, and raikage was giving him props that he thought minato would never lose? Yet minato becomes kage gets a little stronger, face someone he thought was madara and beat him, and you people think tobirama alive is stronger than alive minato? How? What way? Its stupid people like you guys are just being bias for tobirama theres nothing factual rather than some foolishness in the war people blow out of proportion. While alive minato fights way stronger opponents than tobirama and has way better feats against them at their best in their primes, so minato obviously scales above tobirama while alive, then edo to edo, edo literally amps tobirama a little bit just not physically but jutsu wise yes tobirama was amped becayse he can use his body for tandem paper bombs, minato now can use his senjutsu, and kcm, so minato who already scales above tobirama gets stronger and is now ahead of him, what else is there to say more that minato would win?
@@momotheone9700 your the one that doesn’t know how to scale. From your logic, 14 year old obito is > 5 kage. Does that sound right to you. And the earth kage of the 5 kage will destroy minato, and you said that tobirama is above them and also from you logic base minato is above base and even sage hashi due to edo hashi being ~ to the 3rd hokage
Because I really like Minato, I absolutely take the feat of him speed blitzing his own teleportation as Minato being faster than teleportation because broken speed is crazy funny. And that's his main thing.
Well said. I agree with most of what you said 👏🙏👍. However, when tobirama said that he cant teleport every one like minato can, here is the reason: minato said he cant teleport any thing that he himself or his chakra is touching. Minato can teleport everyone that has his ninetails chakra, remember. And the fact tobirama can use minato's seal or hack them, just shows he is not inferior to minato with FTG. At times in the war tobirama was able to link himself to minato & naruto's chakra to teleport away those in danger. He switch places with Kcm daze minato, this same minato blitz kcm 1 naruto & sauske. Daze minato at times out performed kcm 1 naruto & sauske. So daze kcm minato is far above raikage, early ems sauske, & kcm 1 naruto. But yet his speed & ftg use can be matched by Edo tobi, especially since he was the one coordinating, moving, thinking, & teleporting with minato. 👍 Another point to prove the uselessness of body flicker jutsu & minatos bflicker jutsu: Minato got to the battle field before all the hokages, using bflicker, yes. But through out his life, & all the fights we see him in, his body flicker is so so so useful to him, that he always have to rely on FTG. Against raikage, bee, young obito, even in his kcm mode, when helping guy, when fighting madara, when fighting Onoki's 50 ninjas, in his new one shot. 👍. Minato cant seem to RELY on his body flicker jutsu 🤔, why🤔. Maybe kishimooto implemented bflicker in the series to make ninjas look kool or something. Also, hiruzen arrived on the battle field with his hands on the ground, so its obvious he wasn't running, but rather jumping. Body flicker is jumping, but faster than you would normally jump. Depending on your skills with it, that will determine how far & high you can jump. 👍🙏. Also, look at it this way, hashi arrived after minato, because minato his better at the bflicker jutsu. Now, if bflicker makes you faster in combat, then that means minato is faster than hashi. However, im pretty sure Minato didn't beat obito with bflicker, it was FTG. Hashi cant use FTG but im pretty sure he can blitz young young obito. Madara can too. And toibirama, who was moving & reacting on par with hashi against hiruzen in part one wouldn't even need FTG to blitz younger younger obito. Its no wonder tobirama hardly uses FTG. His life dont depends on it 😂. Minato, however, is always always always, always using FTG. Not only because he's good at it, but also because HIS LIFE DEPENDS on it 🫣😔. Hashi dont need FTG to blitz raikage, or bee. Madara dont too. We even see edo weakened madara reacting to KCM 1 NARUTO and blitzing him. So please tell me how is bflicker useful in a combat situation? And what role did such an awesome technique (bflicker) played in any of the fights in naruto manga/ anime/ novels/ oneshots? Im not saying these things to offend you or anyone, ok. 👍🙏👏👍. Much love ✌️.
I would just like to dispute your claims about tankiness and durability where you try to equalize the two. Even to go as far and say sage mode Minato is not even close to Tobirama. It comes from the relation of Madara to Itachi(Sasuke, Shisui, or any other modern day Uciha), or Hashirama to pretty much anyone of the current era generation shinobi. Its always the feel you get that older generation were more physical and the way they are presented with more armor pieces and just looking at the 3 of them, Madara, Hashirama and Tobirama. And I am not saying he is close to Tobirama, but he is a Senju and his brother after all. And the only one to be presented as they were is ironically Jiraya, thats also old and closer to them generationally than to the new generations.
Not to say that this decides the whole fight, but on the durability scaling, why is Tobirama being put in Minato's durability level for being impaled by MADARA, sliced by TEN-TAILS OBITO, and Kinkaku & Ginkaku when their only scaling was having to be sealed by six paths tech to beat? Meanwhile Minato gets impaled by shrapnel from a paper bomb? I don't see these being on the same level.
Yeah but minato also took a kick by sage of six paths madara whose stronger than one rinnegan hashirama sage mode madara and juubito, he also took a hit feom an enton rasenshuriken from naruto and sasuke combined and was fine, so thats why its a fair comparison
@@momotheone9700 He wasn't fine, he regened because he was an edo tensei. It's stated that no one can withstand a rasenshuriken hit, unless you have durability on a celular level. Edo Tensei Madara had to absorb it because if he didn't he would've just get sealed and Minato only got hit by a split second and not really the best durability feat for him
@@momotheone9700 i understand, but Minato was in kcm mode when he got hit by rasenshuriken. Secondly, madara didn't take Minato seriously, he just kicked him away and cut off his arm. But with hashirama and tobirama SENJU, he restrained them with is rods. Reason why (" their is a reason you two brothers cant regain your true power ". " Im the one the heavens are smiling upon now"")etc. Madara was very confident that prime tobirama and hashirama were alot stronger than they were in the war. Tobirama is also a natural senju, they have great Chakra and stamina, the same clan who defeated the Uchiha's.
I feel like Rock in Boruto should beat Tobirama. I feel like Rock Lee would scale to Gaara and the 4 kage in Boruto, they Fought Momoshiki and Kinshiki who are leagues above 10 tails Madara
Well said. I agree with most of what you said 👏🙏👍. However, when tobirama said that he cant teleport every one like minato can, here is the reason: minato said he cant teleport any thing that he himself or his chakra is touching. Minato can teleport everyone that has his ninetails chakra, remember. And the fact tobirama can use minato's seal or hack them, just shows he is not inferior to minato with FTG. At times in the war tobirama was able to link himself to minato & naruto's chakra to teleport away those in danger. He switch places with Kcm daze minato, this same minato blitz kcm 1 naruto & sauske. Daze minato at times out performed kcm 1 naruto & sauske. So daze kcm minato is far above raikage, early ems sauske, & kcm 1 naruto. But yet his speed & ftg use can be matched by Edo tobi, especially since he was the one coordinating, moving, thinking, & teleporting with minato. 👍 Another point to prove the uselessness of body flicker jutsu & minatos bflicker jutsu: Minato got to the battle field before all the hokages, using bflicker, yes. But through out his life, & all the fights we see him in, his body flicker is so so so useful to him, that he always have to rely on FTG. Against raikage, bee, young obito, even in his kcm mode, when helping guy, when fighting madara, when fighting Onoki's 50 ninjas, in his new one shot. 👍. Minato cant seem to RELY on his body flicker jutsu 🤔, why🤔. Maybe kishimooto implemented bflicker in the series to make ninjas look kool or something. Also, hiruzen arrived on the battle field with his hands on the ground, so its obvious he wasn't running, but rather jumping. Body flicker is jumping, but faster than you would normally jump. Depending on your skills with it, that will determine how far & high you can jump. 👍🙏. Also, look at it this way, hashi arrived after minato, because minato his better at the bflicker jutsu. Now, if bflicker makes you faster in combat, then that means minato is faster than hashi. However, im pretty sure Minato didn't beat obito with bflicker, it was FTG. Hashi cant use FTG but im pretty sure he can blitz young young obito. Madara can too. And toibirama, who was moving & reacting on par with hashi against hiruzen in part one wouldn't even need FTG to blitz younger younger obito. Its no wonder tobirama hardly uses FTG. His life dont depends on it 😂. Minato, however, is always always always, always using FTG. Not only because he's good at it, but also because HIS LIFE DEPENDS on it 🫣😔. Hashi dont need FTG to blitz raikage, or bee. Madara dont too. We even see edo weakened madara reacting to KCM 1 NARUTO and blitzing him. So please tell me how is bflicker useful in a combat situation? And what role did such an awesome technique (bflicker) played in any of the fights in naruto manga/ anime/ novels/ oneshots? Im not saying these things to offend you or anyone, ok. 👍🙏👏👍. Much love ✌️.
I appreciate the honesty and effort. However, a few things to mention: 1. You didn't even adress the 2 statements about Raikage being on par, or not inferior to Minato in speed. There is also a statement of Bee where he called MS Sasuke his strongest opponent (which would include Minato). Sage mode Naruto was said to surpass his predecessors (even Minato considering he learned Sage mode). All those statements are a clear indicator on how Minato wasn't as impressive as many people think. 2. I believe that the feat where Tobiraman blitzes unstable Juubito is actually valid. Since the scene shows how Tobirama put 5 paper bombs and 1 FTG seal, making it a clear blitz, and all tthat without Juubito even noticing, it is your burden to prove why would he hold back against them. So all this "we can't say for sure if he was holding back or not so I won't include this feat" doesn't work. And if you think about it, why would he? He was going up against God of shinobi and his brother. Hiruzen reacting to Juubito is not a proof aswell, since old Hiruzen was actually amped by Edo in comparison to his alive part one version because his age wasn't a problem anymore. War ark Hiruzen was actually prime Hiruzen with Edo nerf. And no, Minato doesn't scale above Hiruzen's combat speed (which matters the most), only travel speed with bodyflicker. 3. I don't like the fact that you just decided to not take Madara's statement as valid just because of alternate interpretation. If you take more things into account, like Tobirama reacting to Juubito faster than Hashirama and reacting to that same Madara who had Sage mode, Hashirama cells and one rinnegan (and Tobirama was nerfed) it is much more likely that the interpretation in which Madara actually admitted that Tobirama was the fastest is the right one. Also the context of that statement is important aswell. Madara was actually mocking Tobirama for not being at full power and fast as he used to be while Madara just keeps gaining amps. 4. Minato was relative in (combat) speed to 14 year old Obito, which is pathetic in comparisson to Tobirama who has scaling over unstable Juubito and prime Hashirama and Madara. So I think that winner is pretty clear. It's Tobirama.
People need to understand, that kishimooto didn't properly think through Minato and obito's characters. Minato got faster as an edo all of a sudden. Obito had 16 or 17 years to train, he should have become insanely faster, but instead other people can react and fight him. If a 15 year old has two degrees, then in 15 more years he should have way more degrees when he is 30. Minato, died but is still faster than.............. kishimooto is brilliant, but he confuses me sometimes. When Minato is called the fastest, he can blitz anyone, but when tobirama is called the fastest he cant blitz everyone. Its just so confusing. 👍
1. He said Toughest opponent and toughest has multiple meanings you can ascribe to Sasuke that nay fit the context but saying he's stronger is baseless. The statements about the Raikage were irrelevant to the video as I didn't feel scale Tobirama higher than Raikage. 2. I didn't give just alternate interpretations I gave you what the kanji actually says on the page from multiple different translated sources and Madara does NOT say Tobirama is the fastest Shinobi. 3. It's not my burden to prove he was holding back at all as I didn't claim it I simply mentioned it as a possibility due to him not being in his right mind state. Him going up against the God of Shinobi doesn't matter at all it's not a being with Reasoning that version of Obito didn't even recognize his own name so that's null. It's literally just an argument from ignorance to say he scales to full speed Juubito since you can't prove he's holding back the argument can be flipped the other way as well you can't prove he was going all out so he was holding back which is just faulty reasoning. 4. This is just a reassertion of him scaling to Hashirama & Juubito based on little to no evidence.
You guys are silly, being an inventor does not mean your smarter than everyone, just take the person who invented the telephone, and Steve Jobs, both are important, but look at the difference within a phone over time, its almost unrecognizable to what it was before, your telling me the guy who invented the phone is more intelligent or is superior to the Steve Jobs juat because he created it? No way bruh, same here tobirama created flying raijin which is important, but minato makes that jutsu godly, so due to his advancement of that jutsu, he should just be a superior shinobi with its usage.
@@momotheone9700 steve jobs didn't create smartphone. He was a businessman. His team made it. Telephone and smartphone are two entirely different technology. Smartphone is compressed version of laptop with touchscreen. Telephone was just for talking. Their flying raijin doesn't have much difference. Both have same applications. Both have same applications. Newton made so many laws & formulas in kinematics, gravity, thermal (all correct). And he's said to be the smartest scientist ever lived. Making something is much more difficult than updating it. Tobirama is smarter than minato, more experienced, much more knowledgeable. Juubito fight showed it along with his reaction speed.
It’s almost unfair to compare Tobirama to anyone. With the amount jutsu he has There’s honestly no telling what he was capable of while living. The only real reference points are the Gold/Silver brothers & even they are hard to scale 💀.
Let me make the Scaling easy for u : (1) kinkaku and ginkaku took Chakra from the full ninetails. Long before kushina ever became its jinchuriki, long before Minato separated kurama into 2. They literally had the good shi+ . Both combinations. So what ever we saw 4 tails naruto doing to orochimaru and pain, guess what ? Kin & gin manifested 6 tails , and had both yin and yang mixtures, some good shi+. (2) ninetails leaked out Chakra healed kid naruto even after sauske stabbed him with a chidori. (3) ninetails Chakra version two makes ur outer body very very durable, not even orochimaru long hard snake sword could penetrate naruto version 2 body.
Well you can scale gold and silver brothers. They had all 5 sage of six paths weapons and in Databooks, it is stated, whoever demonstrates the power of those weapons, even surpasses the gokage(5 Kage). They also had nine tails chakra too, like the other guy mentioned. so they are above 5 kage. Here you go Kin and gin > 5 kage
Well you can scale the gold and silver brothers, as they had 5 sage of six paths weapons and in the databooks, it’s stated, whoever demonstrates the power of those weapons surpasses even the gokage(5 kage). Here you go Kin and gin > 5 kage
Bro you have to be lying. There’s know way you think Hashirama being able to calm Tobirama down means that he’s even stronger, let alone FASTER… what?? Hashi is Tobiramas, Hokage, leader, big brother, best friend, closest ally and the greatest hero he’s ever know, also Hashi was right that he needed to calm down … him cooperating is a sign of respect not fear… even if you think it’s means he’s stronger which makes 0 sense, how do you leap to him being faster? You know you can lose a fight even if you’re the faster person right? If not then why even have the UFC or boxing? Let’s just measure everyone’s speeds and then we’ll know who’s the best 🤦🏽♂️ If you get riled up as a grown man and your mom calms you down is that cuz you’re scared your mom will speed blitz you and whoop your ass? 😂No it’s respect, use you’re common sense That’s the entire basis of you saying Tobirama was not the fastest of his time and it makes 0 sense. Why do you y’all want minato to be stronger soooo bad
Honestly, I see the two of them either in a stalemate or Tobirama wins. Minato for all his strengths still doesn't measure up to the most powerful Senju after Hashirama who is a reincarnation of a god. Tobirama is gonna figure out that Minato uses FTG and once that happens, Tobi won't engage Minato in a speed contest, rather he'd just probe Minato to find openings while getting him to overuse FTG. Both are incredibly intelligent but Tobirama is always ready in this department. What seals it for me is that Tobirama has an arsenal of techs and even greater chakra reserves than Minato. I'm confident that while we've seen most of what Minato can do... we haven't seen more than half what Tobirama can do. There is just more to him than meets the eye. Just my observation
Yeah it was too much. Any body can see it. If the 4th do it it is a great Testament to his speed. If the 2nd do the same thing.......well he just teleport.
Hey! thunderGod (smaller TH-camr) got hacked and his channel is now called Mercedes-Benz. It's currently streaming a weird Tesla video. Spread the word so thunderGods fans can see this and stop watching the fake stream.
It's so ducking weird. You can tell it's a hacked account because all the videos are gone but the community tab is still the same and he's a fellow Naruto creator, so his community tab is full of Naruto announcements for his vids.
This is literally like comparing modern navy seals to WW2 army rangers. They were good back in the day but we've kept iterating on soldier training and gear to the point that a functioning seal team is basically unstoppable. 4 seals vs 4 army rangers is a slaughter. This is just that stuff they do in anime with the whole "the new generation will surpass the old." Honestly outside of Madara and Hashirama there is a clear progression of power over the generations. I think it's a cool part of the story going on in the background.
Tsunade was weaker despite being the 5th. The 3rd Kazekage was stronger than Rasa. Being a newer generation doesn't guarantee that you'll be stronger. Kiba's sister is not stronger than prime Senju and Uchiha from Madara and Hashirama's era just because she's born later.
@@virn333 Meanwhile the Sand village got weaker due to cuts in military spending, the Mist village had so much internal turmoil that they were severely hampered, post-war the new gen is soft due to a lack of hardship and increasing disinterest in becoming ninja. I agree in Boruto advancement of tech creates a gap, but during a lot of Naruto there are previous characters that are seldom surpassed. Constant war kills off a lot of talent (Dan, Tsunade's younger brother, etc.), but also hones those who survive. Hagoromo and Hamura were weaker than Kaguya, Indra and Asura were weaker than Hagoromo (as well as Hamura's descendants), etc. In Naruto secret techniques are sometimes lost, Uchiha all running around with Izanami and Izanagi, versus those for several generations without it. The Uzamaki clan being genocided led to the loss of a ton of Sealing jutsu. I agree there's an element of what you said, in building on what came before in regards to jutsu/training,technological development etc. But, with Naruto being a supernatural world there are tons of exceptions to those rules.
Minato slams with kcm and sm. Base still wins due to being faster and better fr. Simple tbh. Body flicker is faster for Minato too due to war arc. Gg tobiramatards
Jiraiya loses if he can't enter sage mode but i see the toads holding off Kakazu enough for that so Kakazu loses also on Kakashi attitude over hearing Jiraiya death means he held him higher than him a better debate would be Jiraiya vs Sasori and deidara
Very disingenuous to say just because hashirama is superior overall that means his faster than Tobirama Tobirama can legit not bypass his regen or his durability
Even if you wanted to say that, kushina was there too and if it wasn't for her, the claw would have gotten to naruto so its not that impressive for Minato
@@NebulosDragon By that logic we can't quantify how much minato helped since the claw hit them both simultaneously. And we can't scale kushina to karin by any metric other than sealing ability, not physical strength
Just hear me out @22:00 minato reaching to the battlefield before the other hokages is due to the marking on the eight tails he left when they met years ago remember the mark never goes away "wait i never thought u that did i obito"
Its very possible , and also eight tails was literally touching tentails bomb and we didn't see any flying thunder god guiding thunder barrier or seal appearing like against the ninetails. Its possible Minato may have sensed his seal on eight tails as he got closer to the field and teleported to him and touched and teleported the bomb away. 👍
Well said. I agree with most of what you said 👏🙏👍. However, when tobirama said that he cant teleport every one like minato can, here is the reason: minato said he cant teleport any thing that he himself or his chakra is touching. Minato can teleport everyone that has his ninetails chakra, remember. And the fact tobirama can use minato's seal or hack them, just shows he is not inferior to minato with FTG. At times in the war tobirama was able to link himself to minato & naruto's chakra to teleport away those in danger. He switch places with Kcm daze minato, this same minato blitz kcm 1 naruto & sauske. Daze minato at times out performed kcm 1 naruto & sauske. So daze kcm minato is far above raikage, early ems sauske, & kcm 1 naruto. But yet his speed & ftg use can be matched by Edo tobi, especially since he was the one coordinating, moving, thinking, & teleporting with minato. 👍 Another point to prove the uselessness of body flicker jutsu & minatos bflicker jutsu: Minato got to the battle field before all the hokages, using bflicker, yes. But through out his life, & all the fights we see him in, his body flicker is so so so useful to him, that he always have to rely on FTG. Against raikage, bee, young obito, even in his kcm mode, when helping guy, when fighting madara, when fighting Onoki's 50 ninjas, in his new one shot. 👍. Minato cant seem to RELY on his body flicker jutsu 🤔, why🤔. Maybe kishimooto implemented bflicker in the series to make ninjas look kool or something. Also, hiruzen arrived on the battle field with his hands on the ground, so its obvious he wasn't running, but rather jumping. Body flicker is jumping, but faster than you would normally jump. Depending on your skills with it, that will determine how far & high you can jump. 👍🙏. Also, look at it this way, hashi arrived after minato, because minato his better at the bflicker jutsu. Now, if bflicker makes you faster in combat, then that means minato is faster than hashi. However, im pretty sure Minato didn't beat obito with bflicker, it was FTG. Hashi cant use FTG but im pretty sure he can blitz young young obito. Madara can too. And toibirama, who was moving & reacting on par with hashi against hiruzen in part one wouldn't even need FTG to blitz younger younger obito. Its no wonder tobirama hardly uses FTG. His life dont depends on it 😂. Minato, however, is always always always, always using FTG. Not only because he's good at it, but also because HIS LIFE DEPENDS on it 🫣😔. Hashi dont need FTG to blitz raikage, or bee. Madara dont too. We even see edo weakened madara reacting to KCM 1 NARUTO and blitzing him. So please tell me how is bflicker useful in a combat situation? And what role did such an awesome technique (bflicker) played in any of the fights in naruto manga/ anime/ novels/ oneshots? Im not saying these things to offend you or anyone, ok. 👍🙏👏👍. Much love ✌️.
@@vinno5901 the judges were clearly biased, noodles literally debunked every argument swag made. Also, the debate wasnt even finished. Let alone the fact that swag was getting help from six
Idk, we never got to see what Tobirama could do at full power, I know he died against the gold and silver brothers but he was weak there right? Tobirama in a Vs thing seems shaky
Well said. I agree with most of what you said 👏🙏👍. However, when tobirama said that he cant teleport every one like minato can, here is the reason: minato said he cant teleport any thing that he himself or his chakra is touching. Minato can teleport everyone that has his ninetails chakra, remember. And the fact tobirama can use minato's seal or hack them, just shows he is not inferior to minato with FTG. At times in the war tobirama was able to link himself to minato & naruto's chakra to teleport away those in danger. He switch places with Kcm daze minato, this same minato blitz kcm 1 naruto & sauske. Daze minato at times out performed kcm 1 naruto & sauske. So daze kcm minato is far above raikage, early ems sauske, & kcm 1 naruto. But yet his speed & ftg use can be matched by Edo tobi, especially since he was the one coordinating, moving, thinking, & teleporting with minato. 👍 Another point to prove the uselessness of body flicker jutsu & minatos bflicker jutsu: Minato got to the battle field before all the hokages, using bflicker, yes. But through out his life, & all the fights we see him in, his body flicker is so so so useful to him, that he always have to rely on FTG. Against raikage, bee, young obito, even in his kcm mode, when helping guy, when fighting madara, when fighting Onoki's 50 ninjas, in his new one shot. 👍. Minato cant seem to RELY on his body flicker jutsu 🤔, why🤔. Maybe kishimooto implemented bflicker in the series to make ninjas look kool or something. Also, hiruzen arrived on the battle field with his hands on the ground, so its obvious he wasn't running, but rather jumping. Body flicker is jumping, but faster than you would normally jump. Depending on your skills with it, that will determine how far & high you can jump. 👍🙏. Also, look at it this way, hashi arrived after minato, because minato his better at the bflicker jutsu. Now, if bflicker makes you faster in combat, then that means minato is faster than hashi. However, im pretty sure Minato didn't beat obito with bflicker, it was FTG. Hashi cant use FTG but im pretty sure he can blitz young young obito. Madara can too. And toibirama, who was moving & reacting on par with hashi against hiruzen in part one wouldn't even need FTG to blitz younger younger obito. Its no wonder tobirama hardly uses FTG. His life dont depends on it 😂. Minato, however, is always always always, always using FTG. Not only because he's good at it, but also because HIS LIFE DEPENDS on it 🫣😔. Hashi dont need FTG to blitz raikage, or bee. Madara dont too. We even see edo weakened madara reacting to KCM 1 NARUTO and blitzing him. So please tell me how is bflicker useful in a combat situation? And what role did such an awesome technique (bflicker) played in any of the fights in naruto manga/ anime/ novels/ oneshots? Im not saying these things to offend you or anyone, ok. 👍🙏👏👍. Much love ✌️.
Alive versions tobirama stomps. Edo minato with sage mode and kcm was just for plot conveniences. There’s no way someone wouldn’t release there full power protecting literally everything there care about, for an example jariyah who couldn’t even master sage mode still tried to use it to gather info to protect Naruto.
Nah. Tobirama flat out says minato has better speed and use of ftg which is true. Minato can teleport with his kunai, he can teleport attacks, and he has better physical feats. The only thing tobirama has to win is a suicide bomb attack. Even that would require prep
I think it’s odd that sasuke is just flat out ‘weaker’ after losing his eye. Kakashi after losing the sharingan was able to create the purple raikuri since he doesn’t have the Chakra fatigue. Shouldn’t sasuke have access to more chakra since his eye isn’t constantly draining his stamina? Boruto is weird man I don’t like it much 😂
Because a natural rinnegan is shown boosting your stats are you dumb ems Madara went from losing to hashi with the Kyuubi with a natural rinnegan being able to tie with edo hashi on his own wit this hashi being arguably stronger since he showed he learn deity gates which means he probably got stronger after the ems Madara fight
Kakashi body wasn't meant to host a sharingan so it was burden. Sasuke body lost a valuable asset that its body constitutes as necessary. That's why Sasuke is weaker
Thank you for watching I edited this myself :) (I'm in agonizing pain)
Tobirama invented the Flying Raijin
Minato perfected the Flying Raijin
pROUD of you
smh bruh should have just asked me to edit for you
That's amazing, love seeing creators put in this much work and dedication into their content
Minato can teleport with his kunai while tobirama needs to pre mark stuff
You’re like the only guy that’s still posting naruto content after the drama. Props to you for moving on
Well he really wasn't effected by it much anyway, he said so himself.
Check out DygoKnight and NCHammer for other Naruto TH-camrs worth watching
Swag also just doesn't post much for... quite awhile now
@narutoexplained post naruto content. More boruto but he does naruto shorts.
thundergod posts naruto content like every two days
"One by one the new generation will catch up to you. And in the end, they'll surpass you." *- Kakashi Hatake*
The fourth is the strongest hokage til kishimito yeet that shit and became dumb as fuck. Essentially nobody surpass the first hokage, even naruto and sasuke is granted their power by hagoromo.
When at the very least he has no need to do that, he could have just write sasuke attained rinnegan because kabuto grant him hashirama cell, and naruto become pseudo ten tails jinchuriki with the help of obito
@@shzammpatapon9865if Naruto dint get six paths i argue he would have passed hashirama and Madara on his own in ksm he was already reaching that give him a few years he would naturally grow stronger than them since he was six teen
@@gameuniverse5973 exactly people forget hashirama was a fully grown man
Base Naruto and sasuke slams the entire shippuden verse lol naruto one shotted toneri in his base form
@@weeb5131 that’s not fair to toneri. Yes base Naruto and Sasuke solos all of shippuden but Naruto had to compress all of his chakra into his fist to two shot toneri. Once on his tso which blocked dozens of big ball rasengan a from kcm sage mode Naruto at once. And the second punch was to actually one shot him. Like did you not watch the fight. Toneri and Naruto were heavily implied to be equals. Both unable to defeat the other, Naruto literally had to pull a tsunade to win.
I do think Minato takes it for the reasons you stated.
I'm rewatching the series now and am right after Obito "losing". Tobiramas feats almost contributed the most to the alliances success to me, right after Naruto and Sasuke. Minato, understandably, was in a really weird state of mind. Tobirama made all these crazy assessments and strategies, was always seemingly everywhere and helping in the blink of an eye. To me he is in the absolute highest league of "battlereadiness" with Madara, Itachi and a clear thinking Minato. Dudes who are 100% there, ready and calm at a moments notice. I'm saying this purely because of the disrespect Tobirama seems to be getting. He is extremely strong.
right? he was was one of the few who never seemed shook. like he was reincarnated years into his future, brought into a global battle with next level enemies (stronger than anyone/anything that he's faced), and is entirely clam, strategizing, and acting. I always liked that and noticed it immediately. like he just ooze "War, War never changes" vibes.
@@hoofhearted4 exactly what i was thinking, very well put
@@hoofhearted4 i agree with that tobirama is very switch on, but id say its only because he did not have any real emotional ties to this war, he was dead long before, im telling yah if you had switch obito with danzo or someone dare to tobirama, and say danzo was causing all the problems, tobirama might have been as out of wack as minato was.
@@momotheone9700 nope he wouldn’t of🗿minato isn’t “dazed”. He knows the world is at stake, an example being when kurama was released in the village he jumped in front of the claw to not only save Naruto but to detain kurama with the seal. He had the will to do that because of what was at stake. In the 4th war the same applies. I’d argue he was only in a temporary daze upon finding out what obito had done & that was it. Afterwards it faded & knew what he had to do to help out. So no when tobirama blatantly outplays him on multiple occasions it wasn’t due to some mental gyming “daze” or “nerf” cause of his state of mind. It was because tobirama is just better. All minato has over him is potentially travel speed which has no contribution to a combat fight besides running away🗿
@hennigod8957 you don't get over stabbing your former student who Killed you wife and attacked the village that easily tf its literally even started Naruto had to Cheer him up meanwhile Tobirama has to Get Obito Off Guard because he is not even KCM2 Level🗿
16:38 Just cause hashirama is superior to tobirama, doesn't necessarily mean he's faster. This is disingenuous to say. You can still be faster than someone and be scared of their power.
he's saying that because he knows Edo Madara reacts to KCM2 Naruto who is faster than base Minato due to implications of Minato being relative to KCM1 and Raikage in speed. Tobirama is faster than Hashirama and Madara, who is faster than Minato
@@roastingmarshmallow8654 How’s Tobirama faster than Hashirama and Madara?✍🏽
@@louderanimationTV Faster in traveling speed is fine, that didn’t help him against Madara as he made him into a pin cushion 🤣
So I don’t see how that’s gonna help him against Hashirama either
@@Rck-vert The whole point of the statement was that madara only touched tobirama at all due to edo tensei nerf. The statement about him being the fastest is about prime Tobirama.
@@kakuzugoated873 the point of the statement was that Tobirama was boasted as the fastest shinobi yet he couldn’t out-sped Madara. Can u prove that the edo tensei is a big enough nerf to make a difference?
They were stated to be close to their alive self and the speed gap between Madara and Tobirama is huge since he landed so many hits and immobilized him even tho he can teleport instantly.
One thing people need to differentiate with Minito is the speed of his teleportation and the speed of his actual movements . He wasn’t faster than 8 gates Gai he just teleported to him using his kunai which Lee threw in the air beforehand.
However, he still managed to react to the orbs, turn his body, and mentally think “teleport” before 8th gate guy even moved like 10ft
@@orion5565. Lol exactly. It really doesn’t matter what he’s doing to get around his opponents.
@@orion5565 Did you even watch the video? He literally explained that's not a speed feat since TSO are not fast at all and Guy 8 gates had slowed down. like wtf?
@@sane7628 8th gate Guy “slowed down” is still in the upper echelon of speed in the verse…
@@sane7628 yet eight gate guy slowed down is faster than tobi can ever hope to be
I'm sorry six but the idea that being scared of someone means they are faster than you is ridiculous
tobirama can just be scared of hashirama because he knows his strength and chakra lvls and also because hashirama is his older sibling so he has the authority over him in serious situations
that doesn't mean he's slower than base hashirama, speed is not the only determining factor of strength
Sure I absolutely agree with you, however it doesn't change the outcome and Tobirama himself saying that Minato is faster is the only part that matters! It was a silly comparison from six's part but in the end Minato still wins
@@liamwheelerl890 but in another chapter Tobirama saved Minato Sasuke and Naruto from a TSB explosion literally next to Minato by teleporting a clone there 1st and he himself said using a clone is slow.
@@sehun2193 you didn’t watch the video, did you?
Minato was heavily nerfed (he was in a daze, via the databook) due to finding out Obito was the Masked Man. So Tobirama outsped a heavily nerfed Minato, which is an invalid feat.
@@MrMan2006 so the Daze affected him when Tobirama outspeeds him but not during any other parts of the war? That's convenient.
Based on the wording, it looks like this Daze happens when he was observing Obito, not when he was in the heat of battle coz if it did then Hiruzen or Obito would have noticed him fighting weird.
@@sehun2193 He was in a “daze” up until he and Naruto combined their Rasengans in their Kurama avatars. Again, you’re exposing your lack of knowledge on the series and Minato. It’s stated that Naruto caused Minato to raise his spirits (or stupor). If you remember the moment, it was when they were fist bumping. Tobirama only outsped a severely mentally nerfed Minato, while a full power Minato can keep up with Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto who > Tobirama
One thing I wonder peopledon’t touch on Tobirama is his Senju heritage, the Uchiha inherited the strong chakra of the Rikudou and the Senju his body. Tobirama was the second strongest Senju right after Hashirama and should have pretty impressive chakra reserves and durability. Thoughts ?
Totally agree 👍
Well to be fair we don’t really know how durable they are because all the senju has huge healing factors and actually aren’t that durable
@@ladellcalhoun8133 i understand, durable is not only about the hardness of skin, but also about longevity, endurance, stamina. 👍 senju's have better stamina, longevity & endurance than other clans. 👍
@@kelvinallen9327 uzumaki actually number one when it comes to that
@@ladellcalhoun8133 i understand, but remember senju's and Uchiha's are direct descendants of otstustciki, Uzumaki's are cousins to senju. Senju are more connected to otstustciki in terms of gene's.
I give it tobirama for the following reasons:
1. Durability / chakra reserves (high tier senju body / chakra)
2. IQ (self explanatory, but not a massive gap)
3. jutsu pool (also self explanatory)
4. scaling off of izuna who was approximately = MS madara
5. the ability to utilize minato's kunai's / FTG seals. (yes minato is better with the technique, but him being able to use minato's own seals is a huge hinderance to minato)
6. Ruthlessness. Tobirama is mentally more strong and willing to kill
Ems and ms have a huge and I mean a huge gap ms madara would get claped by sage minato while ems dog walks every version of minato exept maybe kcm 2 from what we know (until minato manga drops) . Same with sasuke bro went from getting demolished by ay to fighting jubito on par with naruto.
@@florentdbz9873you can’t prove that
@@ZaharJudah I literly just did take sasuke ms sasuke vs ay he got his ass beat but ems sasuke was holding his own with kcm 2 naruto who blized ay in only kcm 1 like yeah it's pretty easy to tell plus the constant drain and pain an ms user has to go through like sasuke described it every cellin your body lighting on fire until he got ems like they are not close
@@florentdbz9873 ms Madara was fighting wood dragon hashirama evenly. Wood dragon was able to low diff kcm2 naruto
@@its_hokori never confirmed idk how delusional are you.
"The Tobirama jinchuuriki" LMAO
first person to comment about this I guess some people didn't get that far in lol.
I thought that was pretty funny too but I don’t know how you held in your laughter
26:14
I mean yeah Madara looked down on Tobirama about how he used to be hailed as the fastest but in that same page he goes on about how there’s a reason Tobirama and Hashirama can’t release their full strength. So it’s not that Tobirama wasn’t fast but in the situation he’s at he can’t release that same level of speed
Wouldn’t that also mean the same for Minato
@@djjones2441 Minato got a mastered kcm cloak while Edo that he never had while alive so it isn't the same
@@TheToby121 he was using it to get to the battle?
@@djjones2441 tbh the order that you arrived at the battle isn't a great feat.
But the point is that Tobirama is clearly nerfed by being an Edo, and Minato got a KCM boost while an Edo, so we don't know if he is still slower than when he was alive or not.
So for speed:
Edo Tobirama < Alive Tobirama
But
Alive Minato( might be) < Edo KCM Minato
Personally I think him having KCM is a greater buff than being an Edo is a nerf. So Edo KCM Minato is buffed while Edo tobirama is nerfed. (Compared to when talking alive vs alive)
So when we scale alive Tobirama vs alive Minato, we have to assume Tobirama is faster than he was shown in war arc (nerfed by Edo), and Minato might be slower than shown in war arc (when he had chakra cloak).
@@TheToby121 this doesn’t address the argument at hand.
Both minato and tobirama used BF to get to the battlefield and tobirama admitted to being slower than base minato.
Also FTG is a teleportation jutsu. Unless instant teleportation can be nerfed, your comment holds no barring
Japanese here and I want to point out the translation 14:16
「忍一の速さを誇っていた」means "The Shinobi who had the best speed" in this context
「誇る」means "to boast", but in this type of usage it indicates the fact of "status/possesion"
A common use is 「絶大な人気を誇る」which means and is also translanted in deepl as "Immensely popular" and NOT "Boasts about the immense popularity"
Niether of the translations got it correct to be fair, since in Japanese, Tobirama having number 1 speed was a "fact", rather than "boast" or "hailed as"
When other shinobi says Minato is fast, his fan base doesn't have a problem. But when madara said that tobirama is faster, now all the bias Minato fans say, na, no, cant be, mistake, what, impossible. So bias. Tobirama can combat anyone, but madara and hashirama are more powerful.
@@kelvinallen9327 tobirama literally says minato is faster
@@bobjoe4847 Minato arrived before hashirama, too and madara is hashirama's rival, so madara too. Alive Minato was moving on par with young young obito, obito cant blitz hashirama or madara. Hashirama and tobirama arrived at same time on battle field, plus they were moving on par with each other against hiruzen in their fight. Madara said prime tobirama is faster than himself and others. So, if adult stronger obito can blitz hashirama, or madara with his speed, then Minato also can't. Minato also can't blitz tobirama or hashirama. Tobirama, hashirama, madara are much stronger than Minato, have more Chakra, stamina, etc. So i don't get why people think Minato can beat tobirama, or hashirama or madara. 👍
Please tag Six in this
@@bobjoe4847 please link me the penal where tobirama explicitly says that
16:52 it’s respect not fear 🤣🤣 he has no reason to fear his brother. He knows that’s big brother. “Okay i know you’re serious about this brother, and I see you’re not worried so I won’t” is more of the sentiment.
Just a side note, that's why I hate these popularity votes for the short that will come out. We could have potentially seen more of the 1st or 2nd Great Ninja wars following the likes of Tobirama (for the 1st) or even someone like Hanzo who I think got a bit too much time in the series but cut up so much, that it'd be cool to see more of the 2nd Great War through his and the Rain village's POV. Instead we get more of the same characters who already have much of their stories already told getting all the votes.
I definitely get you, one example though not exactly a popular one is kaguya absolutely needs a One-Shot to give her an actual backstory, not whatever the anime or boruto tries to cook, Minato I feel got the push he got because we never get to see what he can fully do in Sage Mode thanks to Kishimoto dealing with issues involving his own father at the time.
Man, you went deep in your analysis.
I always felt like Kishimoto shortchanged Tobirama in the combat department along with Jiraiya. But we shouldn't try to make up false evidence. Minato is just supposed to be stronger. That's not a bad thing.
@@lethabomaunatlala7121literally the same Fight Minato was Mental Nerfed💀 Get Tobirama above KCM2 Naruto then we'll talk
@lethabomaunatlala7121' it's literally stated he was Dazed which we know Effects your capabilities of drawing your Mental Energy in Naruto 🗿
Edo Tobiramas Speed is not above Juubito man only Tagged Juubito because Hashirama Restrained him read the Panel again🗿
Can't believe people still using the Trash Alive Rennigan Madara Reaction Bullcrap even in 2023 Madara was clearly off Guard as he said it's it's Tobiramas M.O. to Attack when his Opponent has already thought he won
@lethabo maunatlalaIt’s obvious that u don’t have one clue what ur talking about. How tf can Tobirama be above KCM2 Naruto, u must be a delusional because this same Naruto is way stronger than Kinkaku and Ginkaku that literally killed this mf, tf u talking about. Tobirama speed isn’t even above Juubito speed tf, just because he reacted to him doesn’t prove that, and it never implied that Juubito was going full speed against him in the first place. Lastly how tf is Prime Tobirama way stronger than Madara lmao ur arguments are fucking killing me. If the guy wasn’t even stronger than him when alive, and had to literally hid behind a tree couldn’t do shit to him but watch Hashirama handle him how tf is he supposed to be stronger than Edo Madara lmao. Ur comments are fucking killing me, I swear u don’t have one clue about nothing ur saying lmao.
@@percivalknightoftheflames855 im a year late but basically everything you said is wrong lol tobirama wipes minato
Guys I just got caught smoking weed
YOO FR GANG⁉️
This sounds like a personal problem gang go get that sorted out.
Yoooo six I love you brotha ✌🏾you the GOAT
Damn fr
whats wrong with tobirama being faster than madara and hashirama? he uses ftg so it makes perfect sense he is, even if hashirama scared him it doesnt mean anything, a velociraptor could be intimidated by a t-rex despite being faster than him
he is talking about movement speed not teleportation speed, I feel like people who scale these characters need to clarify this more, because to the casual audience it can become confusing
@@nathansanrochman5018 then yes minato has better travel speed than tobirama, tho tobirama still has the edge on him, more chackra smarter, stronger phisically, more range attacks jutsu
@@drowning.macaco more chakra against someone with sage mode,stronger physically name one tobirama physical feat above Minato cutting a eight tails tail,and more range won't matter when Minato gonna rasengan combo him also this is not mentioning Tobi has no durability feats
@@gameuniverse5973 Minato has even worse durability than Tobirama. He will just blitz minato like he blitzed juubito and tag him with a paper bomb. Minato straight up gets 1 shot
Well Tobirama still has faster movement speed
I give it to Tobirama based on chackra reserves. They have very similar techniques, but Tobirama seems to have that Senju chackra tank that would him in the fight for hours.
Minato uses ftg better than tobirama. Even tobirsma admitted this. Minato slaps. He just has better speed and control over ftg
@Lucifer Arc1 And then what? His offense is rasengan and kunai stabs. This isn't a squad of fodder jonin he's facing
@@RaginBajan Tobi isn’t a fodder Jonin lol
@@RaginBajan also with this logic wtf is tonirama offense.
@@makotonaegi4419 His toughest opponent. Now he faces a guy with the exact same technique he has
One AP scalling Minato has is his Rasengan scalling from Naruto's unfinished Rasenshuriken (the one he used against Kakuzu). The "Story so Far..." manga segment right after the fight (can't remember the exact chapter number) contains a statement about Naruto performing a "display of power that rivals even the Forth Hokage himself".
The rasenshuriken was completed at that point as far as I can remember, he just didn’t have the durability or regeneration to tank its effect as it damaged his own hand
@@Rck-vert the attacks could be equal, but the 50% would be because naruto himself was training for 3 days before the fight, even if he had gpt the jutsu to 100% it would still damage him, and he also could not whitstand the power, the difference with minato and naruto is naruto is just not physically as strong as minato at this time, minato can easily whitstand his rasengans that scale to narutos 50%rasenshurikens and minato whielding that type of power cause no damage or not much chakra depletion, thats the only difference that im able to see at that time.
I find it odd that to this day people compare speed between the two when the technique they use is teleportation. It comes down to calculation, not speed.
No. There is body flicker jutsu, which is a technique where you boost your movement speed with chakra. Also mistranslated in some of the manga to "teleportation."
There is also ftg, which is a technique where you instantly travel via wormhole between two points, which is actual teleportation.
When they first approach the 4th war battlefield, Minato arrives first, because his body flicker is so far beyond the ability of the others
There is also reaction speed. The speed at which you can be aware of something and then act once you are aware.
Ftg is the same speed, but the reaction to activate it and the body flicker allowing you to move while acting or reacting are both faster for Minato.
@@bobjohnson1633 Wrong comment fam.
Ty ty💙
Thanks for putting chapters I didn't use them but I appreciate the possibility of using them in the future
Nah fr tho. Six made a goated move with this one
@@NiggarochiXxXsix just knows all the chapters and date book pages to find anything
@@gameuniverse5973 we meant on the video lol
Oh wow he answered the question in the first word of the video! What a speed run.
One thing Naruto youtubers never do, is actually creating a scene where they explain how they would actually fight each other. Usally you only compare them, but never set up the fight ! I wish someone would starting doing this.
Lord Cirodrax is a Spanish youtuber who does exactly that.
In my book tobirama wins. They are equally smart.
Minato is better with FTG (but Tobirama is really good at it too)
Minato is faster (but Tobirama is top tier too)
Minato has the rasengan and advanced sealing techniques.
Thats all for Minato (unless he is edo with 9 tails. Then he wins)
Tobirama mastered 5 elements. He is the strongest or second strongest suiton user. He is phisically superior, he has more chakra, stamina and resistance.
Tobirama has more experience.
He know more about jutsus and stuff.
He has more options in combat because his jutsu arsenal is big and diverse.
He is better with shadow clones (we never see Minato use it, also, just because Tobirama has more chakra to use them).
He can use edo tensei and would use it. When the edo kage came back to life, they thought the user of edo tensei was tobirama. That means he use to use the jutsu. Its true that tobirama version of the jutsu was not near as good as orochimaru/kabuto's , but he had the paper bomb technique.
Also, in a direct fight, it doesnt matter if Minato is better at FTG because beying prepared with marked kunai would help tobirama that would use the marks for his own advantage. Minato would hace a hard time fighting in a water scenario. I think minato has 30% chance to outsmart or suprise Minato and beat him in the first minute of the fight. If he cant surprise him and make the fight short, then is GG for him because in a longer battle Tobirama has more resources and stamina and chakra and would win.
When minato was fighting Obito in the konoha kyubi attack, he mentioned beying low on chakra after a couple of FTG. That would never happen to Tobirama Senju who can intimidate Orochimaru, Sasuke, Suigetsu, Karin and Juugo with his chakra by just manifest it moving a finger.
Nice 👍👌👍👌👍👌👍
Tobiram has 5 nature style, big woop minato has 3 plus he can summon his toads to use water or earth, or oil combined with fire. Plus none if tobirama jutsus are as fast as himself when using ftg which means he needs a little time to do it, enough time for minato to counter. We see minato teleporting point blank fromraikages fastest hits, teleported out mid kamui, plus we sse him teleporting attacks at the level of nine and tentails so an attack from tobirama waterstyles or any of his other 4 factually weaker natures would not pressure minatothat mich he can evade and teleport away easily plus his rasengan is literally just raw chakra which would hard counter tobirama nature types, thats why i dont validate having nature type as any big deal in this fight.
As for you know tobirama having more chakra or being physically stronger, idk about being physically stronger, minato was gonna kill ay through his lightning armor with his kunai, just sayin🤷♂️ then you have his rasengans being relative to narutos 50% rasenshurikens, did you see what that shit did to kakuzu? And minato can spam that after blitzing you with NO HANDSEALS REQUIRED, naruto could only do that shit once and only spammed it after sage mode training which boodt his base durability, and even then he still needed sage mode to handle that type of power, im not saying minato is physically as strong as sage naruto, as for the chakra argument, i can just say minato proven that he can fight on the level of perfect jichurikis, ninetails, madara threat level people with him controling his own reserve of chakra, and that he has better control over his chakra than tobirama since hes better sealer, better user of ftg and he created rasengan which is perfect shape transformation, i can just make that argument that with minato level of chakra control the difference in chakra quantity does not matter, i can also say minato just used up a lot if chakra in holding the seal down for kushina to give birth before obito even appear, so that could be the reason why the stick cut him, or thats why he did use clones, or was fatigued after teleporting kurama, i can also say it takes 3 A rank jonin combinding all their chakra together to use ftg once, yet minato spams that shit like swiping left on tinder, see how sasy it is to prove minato has a tonne of chakra?even sage mode is proof the only people with sage mode consistently is people with sulignificantly high chakra reserve, hashirama, naruto, sage kabuto, jiraiya mitsuki from boruto through body mod still loads of chakra, kashin koji and look at that minato also, see how consistent that was, at worst tobirama is slightly higher not even enough of a difference to mention,
Also kalvin allen, dude just stop, just admit you like tobirama more than minato thats fine, but dont act like your a minato fan whose confused about minatos writing just say you think minato is fodder and tobirama stomps, stop hiding behind people lame arguments because its clear you dont really analyse minato at all, you just use one fight to judge and thats the ninetails attack, because thats the only way to say minato struggled against someone that he maybe should not have( which tbh tobirama would struggle as well in those circumstances). So just admit it, i admit im a minato fan, i dont hate tobirama, but i just think how ppl go to try to wank tobirama is by shitting on minato scaling by saying oh he lost to 14 year old cripple, oh he got his hands chopped off by juubito and juubidara,for example simple shit like that.
@@momotheone9700 I think a lot.of things that you mention are right. First of all, I agree that Minato's fight with Obito durying 9tails attack is nothing but a showcase of how excellent of a shinobi minato is.
I also agree that, one of the things that Minato do better than Tobirama is using ftg. We dont know if tobirama can teleport big bijudamas and things like that and im.sure he cant.
The thing about the chakra nature is also true, minato has some too. But ill say that at this level, minato's chakra nature wpuldnt make the different. Same with most tobirama's chakra natures. But tobirama's suiton would do. Of course, maybe if he shoots a water dragon or something Minato can teleport it away. But what if he transforms the battlefild in water like the 30% kisame clone (he is stated to be able to make tsunamis). Thats not a direct attack that you can just dodge or teleport away. He would change the terrain to his advantage. That is important. Of course minato can tp away, but in this fight, thats an option for both at any time and its stupid to consider it.
Also, i.know that minato was going.to attack A with a kunai but idk man. You really think minato could pierce A armor with just a kunai? Do you really think he can make more damage with a kunai than the rasenshuriken? Remember, this guy uses rasengan and was trying to create elemental rasengan to increase his fighting power. If he had the strenght to just kunai A why bother? He would be the god of the verse.
I love both characters. I just think bith have fans that dont analyse them objectibly. I can be wrong about tobirama being stronger. I just think thats ehat the story imply durying the war arc. But there is so.much that we dont know about them. Like, Minato.is suposed to be a master of shadowclones but never saw him doing even one. And Tobirama is supposed to be the best water style.user but havent seen what he is able to do because first fight against hiruzdn he was a really nerfed edo tensei, and second time in the war he didnt use it because obito was inmune to ni jutsu.
Also both of them only have bad showings about top tier characters like madara and juubito wich means nothing. Even hashirama.was stumped by juubito.
I think they are closer than their fans want to bealive. Either tobirama sompts Minato.or Minato stomps the second. I dont agree. I think they are in the same tier (unless we count edo Minato with 9 tails). And I tend to bealive that Tobirama is a little bit better.
More diverse doesn't mean you're better
@@momotheone9700 i understand, however im a true Minato fan, but i dont like bias. Minato constantly gets support from my fellow fans, its clear Minato possibly has more fans than tobirama. So why not help out tobirama. I keep telling people, in order to power scale characters we must ignore our personal feelings for them. Example: it was clear, the senju's and Uchiha's are from otstustciki, they naturally have more Chakra and potential, along with the Uzumaki. The senju clan is known as the clan of 1000 skills. They are proficient in taijutsu, ninjutsu, genjutsu. Two of the strongest sealing & barrier jutsu used, were used by hashirama, a senju. The first FTG seal used, was by tobirama, the edo tensei requires knowledge of seal's, his unique paper bombs has unique seal's on them, other villages can seal their tailed beast away, but for some bias , silly reason people think that stupid, foolish, unsmart, idiot tobirama is terrible at barrier, seal's and sealing jutsu???? Minato has shown a consistent pattern of using jutsu's that others have created, tobirama has shown a consistent pattern of creating & using his own jutsu, so why do people think Minato is a better sealer?? What ever stamina or Chakra Minato has, tobirama has way more, he is a natural senju. Kishimooto is a great writer but he didn't carefully think through Minato and obito's characters. Example: Minato was moving on par with young obito, obito who is inferior to hashirama, madara and Tobirama. But in war arc, edo weakened Minato can out speed hashirama, tobirama and possibly madara to the battle field. Bad writing by kishimooto. In data book created by kishimooto, says that raikage speed is not inferior to Minato, further confusion, tsunade and bee compared kcm 1 naruto with Minato in speed. However, alive hashirama is shown perfectly fighting madara and ninetails, perfectly reacting to and combating a ems madara in close combat. Tobirama was moving on par with hashirama in part 1 against hiruzen. Edo weakened Tobirama arrived same time with edo hashirama to battle field. Edo tobirama with no ninetails Chakra, or hashirama sage mode or frog sage was easily reacting to, coordinating, thinking, blitz, fighting onpar with the likes of people like ems sauske, kcm2 naruto, madara, etc. Madara even acknowledged that tobirama is faster in prime and was severely weakened in edo form along with hashirama. Tobirama blitz jubito, tagged and marked him with ftg seal and paper bombs. Jubito was unstable, but stable enough to break out of deity gates, red barrier, fight hiruzen like a boss, moved so fast that kcm 1 naruto said , "" what, what happened ". Minato said , "he's fast" But a much much much more unstable version of jubito ( shape shifting) was able to blitz and grabbed kcm naruto and sauske by their faces. Tobirama took on a much more stable version of obito and tagged him several times. (He allowed him self to get hit by obito, even sauske said that the hokages were sacrificing themselves to figure out jubitos abilities ) Kcm Minato, after seeing edo weakened tobirama speed said, " the second is so fast "( in manga). A very unstable jubito, did what war arc raikage couldn't do, he blitz and grabbed them by their faces 😳. Remember, Minato speed is not consistent, because there is so much inconsistencies as i mentioned above already. Taking all of this into consideration, people still think that Minato can blitz tobirama. Im mot saying that tobirama is stronger than madara or hashirama, but combining his own speed with FTG makes him faster, he can already move on par with hashirama, the god of shinobi. There is not much i can say about Minato, because everyone is already saying it all. Tobirama doesn't get enough representation like Minato from the community. 👍 i like both characters alot, but Minato cant beat or blitz tobirama. 👍 in the manga both edo weakened tobirama and kcm Minato were going to teleport the beast bombs jubito was getting ready to fire at the shinobi force, meaning that tobirama can also deal with tail beast bombs. And was shown doing every thing Minato can with the FTG . But i wonder why didn't stable jubito didn't just walk up to slow slow tobirama and put him out of the fight, but instead edo weakened tobirama with no ninetails Chakra, or sage mode or tailed beast Chakra, was there reacting, blitz, tagging, thinking, moving fighting ???? Like, how many times have tobirama came into contact with jubito, shouldn't jubito just blitz him with his god like speed??? Im not saying tobirama is stronger than jubito . After madara got back his real body, before getting hashirama sage Chakra madara broke out of deity gates, something only jubito was shown doing, so just imagine how much stronger and faster tobirama and hashirama are in prime. 👍 im not saying all these things to make you or anyone feel bad. Ok 👍 👌 its always fun debating you Momo 👍👏👊🙏
Good work Six this is much better than your usual biased video. One of your best probably.
There are just a couple of things that I want to say.
-When Tobirama reacts to Madara, Madara after the fight literally says "I've always wanted to do this", meaning Madara was indeed going for the kill
-When Tobirma puts 5 paper tags a 1 flying raijin mark is ineed a good speed feat. Minato right after that says "SO FAST" or in another transaltions "SO SWIFT" meaning he was indeed fast if it's coming from Minato. + No one has been able to react to Jubito himself, they only react to their Truth seeking orbs no one actually reacts to Jubito.
-And when you mentioned the Dazed part of the video you could've mentioned how he was not acutally dazed and it was a misstranslation since the kanji means SAD because being SAD and dazed are 2 big differences.
Even tho I disagree and I think Tobirama wins this was definitly way better than your usual video. Keep it up man
Fax, this video didn't trigger me at all like I was watching Swag wank Minato at max and giving no props to Tobirama, good job to Six for finally being the first person to make a good argument for Minato.
Tobirama claps minato this guy is a clown
@@lipe9039 perfectly summarised how I felt, since they’re friends I was hoping for a max level wank but he actually was giving both characters a fair way of scaling.
@@SoullessFN tobirama claps jonin Minato
@@gameuniverse5973 Jonin Minato = Hokage Minato, there was literally a 1 year gap in between them.
where i feel most of this is fair, to debunk the debunk of the tobirama teleporting the truth seeking orb, it IS a speed feat becaust it was a clone and it was stated later by tobirama that his clones are slower at using flying raijin compared to the origional. so yes in most cases teleportation is instant, it actually could have been faster if it was the origional and not the clone. but by how much who knows, however it was enough of a difference for tobirama to not want to use a clone in the combo attack with minato and the others.
I haven't even watched the video, and i already know that it's gonna be shit, with all respect to six i heavily don't agree that minato can beat tobirama, not even 4th raikage, no hate for u six ur cool tho, but ur fanboying minato
Minato just beats tobirama even tobirama called edo base minato fast
@@gameuniverse5973 huh?
@@midnightbackflash when they first arrived tobi called edo base Minato fast as heck
Idk how you could call it a tobirama W tbh. Maybe if kishi had actually given tobi better water style feats like originally intended but even then idk man
@@gameuniverse5973 that was hiruzen who said that lol, pls don't try to argue me
We need someone to revive Tobirama as edo and seal him into Sarada after she becomes hokage, that would be giga funny. The Tobirama jinchuuriki part had me rolling lmao
Tobirama doesn’t hate Uchiha…
He would be happy that an Uchiha who is wholesome and not a dick is in office lol... the Tobirama is big racist joke is so dead lmao
That is actually the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
@@Connor-wc6jrand the joke is now taken seriously so it's become pretty ridiculous. He literally tells Sasuke that he never hated the Uchiha
Appreciate you going through the effort of not only using the original kanji for context, but also using AI for help interpreting, that’s some dedication to the craft right there. Might have to “hail” you as one of the best scalers if you keep that up 👍
Ngl I found that massively impressive.
Six don’t let me down😂
16:43 Tobirama just backed off he wasn't literally subdued with force
Love the change in style and appreciate the high amount of content being uploaded now a days.
I had an idea for a what-if fight: Sage Hashirama and EMS Madara (both are in their prime) vs Juubito, imagine a hypothetical Majestic Attire Thousand Arm Buddha Statue throwing hands with a Ten Tail Jinchuriki on the battlefield.
They got killed by six crimson formation juubi bomb
@@gameuniverse5973 Idk, Hashirama's base wood golem deflected a 9tails bijuudama so Im sure a majestic attire bhudda statue would tank a 10 Tails one.
@@judgemasterneimaz8260 four of them also there nothing saying he could have made more plants of juubi bombs
I think one thing you forgot six in this battle debate is that tobirama is a senju and senjus have an extreme amount of chakra reserves being the direct descendants of ashura. They also are really tenacious and resilient just like their cousins the uzumaki clan.
Tobirama stomps, second strongest Senju, faster feats, better battle IQ, more tricks in the bag. Its just that Minato has a bigger fanbase
Thats what i've been saying 👍
Minato scales to younger obito.
And minato with his body flicker he could jumper better to cover more distance.
Not even hashirama would have issues dealing with younger obito, and hashi dont even have FTG. Minato Needs FTG, to beat or stalemate people that tobirama, madara or hashi could beat without FTG. 👍
@@kelvinallen9327 Thats why Minato needed 9tail chakra to compete with the hokage
Comedy
Hokage minato mid diffs the water boy
@@unclephillymya Prove it
Minato fans smh.
Tobirama lifts his finger and at that point Minato already can't approach him.
you don’t think the amount of time minato stood around with 9 tails claw impaling him is a durability feat?
Minato got hurt by a splinter
That's an endurance feat. In terms of his durability there Minato got completely cleaved through by the nail.
That not a good durability feat he got impaled by a nail
@@sixfromtokyo i see i got a little mixed up, fair enough
It’s more of an endurance feat, but it’s not an anti feat for durability as naruto characters are seemingly weak to piercing attacks
10 min in, and so far this is the best down to earth minato and tobirama scaling. Haven't hit the speed portion yet, so I'm not overly optimistic, but I'm glad u mentioned several points that get overlooked or forgotten
Now this has to be updated cuz of the Minato chapter 😭
Facts tobirama getting his shit clapped now😭
@@Telkkinzzz-artwhat feat did Minato do that we haven’t seen yet?
@@ZaharJudah spoiler for the minato manga
But in the new manga minato is compared to hashirama from kurama who actually fought him and minato also used a rasengan while hurt against kurama’s tailed beast bomb which is full power probably slightly weakened which is amazing for minato at 15 to do
@@Telkkinzzz-art he said same caliber as hashirama , I could care less about that statement it does him 0 justice agaisnt tobirama
@@Telkkinzzz-artWell said. I agree with most of what you said 👏🙏👍. However, when tobirama said that he cant teleport every one like minato can, here is the reason: minato said he cant teleport any thing that he himself or his chakra is touching. Minato can teleport everyone that has his ninetails chakra, remember. And the fact tobirama can use minato's seal or hack them, just shows he is not inferior to minato with FTG. At times in the war tobirama was able to link himself to minato & naruto's chakra to teleport away those in danger. He switch places with Kcm daze minato, this same minato blitz kcm 1 naruto & sauske. Daze minato at times out performed kcm 1 naruto & sauske. So daze kcm minato is far above raikage, early ems sauske, & kcm 1 naruto. But yet his speed & ftg use can be matched by Edo tobi, especially since he was the one coordinating, moving, thinking, & teleporting with minato. 👍
Another point to prove the uselessness of body flicker jutsu & minatos bflicker jutsu: Minato got to the battle field before all the hokages, using bflicker, yes. But through out his life, & all the fights we see him in, his body flicker is so so so useful to him, that he always have to rely on FTG. Against raikage, bee, young obito, even in his kcm mode, when helping guy, when fighting madara, when fighting Onoki's 50 ninjas, in his new one shot. 👍. Minato cant seem to RELY on his body flicker jutsu 🤔, why🤔. Maybe kishimooto implemented bflicker in the series to make ninjas look kool or something. Also, hiruzen arrived on the battle field with his hands on the ground, so its obvious he wasn't running, but rather jumping. Body flicker is jumping, but faster than you would normally jump. Depending on your skills with it, that will determine how far & high you can jump. 👍🙏. Also, look at it this way, hashi arrived after minato, because minato his better at the bflicker jutsu. Now, if bflicker makes you faster in combat, then that means minato is faster than hashi. However, im pretty sure Minato didn't beat obito with bflicker, it was FTG. Hashi cant use FTG but im pretty sure he can blitz young young obito. Madara can too. And toibirama, who was moving & reacting on par with hashi against hiruzen in part one wouldn't even need FTG to blitz younger younger obito. Its no wonder tobirama hardly uses FTG. His life dont depends on it 😂. Minato, however, is always always always, always using FTG. Not only because he's good at it, but also because HIS LIFE DEPENDS on it 🫣😔. Hashi dont need FTG to blitz raikage, or bee. Madara dont too. We even see edo weakened madara reacting to KCM 1 NARUTO and blitzing him. So please tell me how is bflicker useful in a combat situation? And what role did such an awesome technique (bflicker) played in any of the fights in naruto manga/ anime/ novels/ oneshots? Im not saying these things to offend you or anyone, ok. 👍🙏👏👍. Much love ✌️.
Who has more money tho?
Kakuzu
@@ObitoUchiha-er5cvzestu dude probably has so much money from all the time he Alive
I am team Tobirama but the point I want to make here is that it's stated very clearly in part 1 that your chakra strength is in part affected by your state of mind. Minato being sad directly nerfs the potency and amount of his chakra.
It is a shonnen after all, so every time you resolve yourself mentally to fight your hardest, you actually are getting buffed. But this is explained in-universe as the spiritual effect on your chakra.
Every time in the series someone is emotionally conflicted they are weaker and every time they are making a stand for what they believe in or to protect someone, they will get stronger.
Thank you
First your completely right on the mindset thing second would you mind explaining why your team tobirama?
@@dylandownie4989 bc he’s stronger n faster via madaras statement duh
@@hennigod8957 you meam the statment where tobirama was said to be the fastest of his time madara not really knowing about minato and where madara no diffed him right before the statmemt oh and best part tobirama called minato faster than himself and better at flying raijin, im genuinly wondering if you watch/read naruto or even watched the video
@@dylandownie4989 it seems you haven’t read or seen the show properly lmfao. “ look at you who use to boast the fastest speed of any shinobi, but I’m the one the heavens are smiling upon. There’s a reason why you two brothers can’t regain your full power, whether coincidence or inevitable IVE got the edge right now” so not only does he say tobirama alive is faster then himself but also that tobirama & hashirama if they were at full power it would be an apparent problem for him. Simple as that.
He knows plenty about minato. He’s the one that dictated rins death to obtain Obito. White zetsu has literally been info providing for years up until his death & he fought against multiple times in the war & never praises him once about anything🗿
Ofc the outcome was going to be obvious although it was offscreen, therefore we can’t assume anything due to no context.
& lastly, what he meant has two interpretations but either of them don’t really matter. Firstly, if he said bodyflicker all that means is his travel speed is faster (long distance travel) that’s it but if he said ftg then he just praised his ftg twice for its versatility which means pre much nothing in a combat sense between the two lol.
Tobirama > Minato. Hes got better feats in the war, better ap, better speed, better battle iq, etc. On top of that every minato fan loves wanking all the quotes and stuff about him and acting like its true, vs when its about tobirama its, "so like madara says hes the fastest buuuuut idk like maybe not doe 😳" Honestly Tobirama being below Minato is mega bullshit mainstream thinking. Minato fans almost as bad as Itachi fans at this point. smh
Its bad writing by kishimooto. I like kishimooto but he didn't carefully think through Minato and obito's characters . Kishimooto even wrote in data book that war arc raikage speed is not inferior to Minato. 👍
No he doesn't good luck scaling Tobirama above KCM2 when his Prime self already got Folded by Fractions of the Nine Tails🗿
@@percivalknightoftheflames855 Kinkaku "Unit" of 20 S-Rank Ninja's and Tobirama was exhausted already from fighting in the war and suppressed from having to fight and get them away from Hiruzen, Danzo, Koharu, Homura, Kagami & Torifu ;)
@Connor-wc6jr yes who are Fodder.
A. Kinaku and Ginaku only have Fractions of Kurama
B. S Rank Ninja can be as low as Sound 4 Unquantifiable
@@percivalknightoftheflames855 that’s head canon af. The sound 4 were not s-rank lmfao
This is by far the best analysis on this subject that I've seen, W
Tobirama has Better reaction feats, uses edos in fights as backed by hiruzen, and can flood the battle field with water style. Or jsut use water style in general to keep his kunai at range. Easy stomp for tobirama people are just biased
Is that why Ginaku and Kinaku Look down on him even seeing the 3rd Raikage as more impressive? Sure the 4th Raikage saw them as an Threat but he saw Minato as Unsurpassable
@@percivalknightoftheflames855 sound s like you believe statements more than scalable feats. Typical debater boy wanker lmao
@@SoullessFNthe same Feats you try to use which has Tobirama catching someone who is Restrained try again and yes I take Author Intent over Feats anyday of the Week because Minato Also has Legitimate Feats that back this shit up
Never seen a video like this before (even though from a different channel)
Thank you for always putting out a quality product Six!
W vid as always
13:50 got me good,
Fair point six 😂
I love how six went way, way, waaayyyy out of his way with the whole "boasted" statement from madara conversing with multiple sources, and doing Olympic level mental gymnastics JUST to make tobirama look bad.
#tobiramahateisreal
Exactly what I was thinking. It's truly disgraceful how ppl try to belittle Tobirama. The series would be nothing without him.
Idk why you'd call that mental gymnastics. All I did was see something out of the norm and got deep into the research.
@Six he's just coping. Minato is better than Tobirama in every way.
@@buddylee5712 Lol, Minato is just Tobirama 2nd edition.
@PriestessOfTheDivineDragon Just because Tobirama is important to the series, doesn't mean he beats Minato. Tobirama is shown time and time again to be weaker than Minato, and if you want to talk about importance, well Minato is the father of the series main character, LOL
The Tobirama jinchiruki 😂 six you funny asf
One note about tobiroma is that he was never at full power in edo idk if u mention it or not so even if minato had a mental nerf tobiroma wasn’t at full power according to madra
Full Power Tobirama got Killed by Fractions of the Nine Tails💀
@@percivalknightoftheflames855 and 20 s-ranked ninja don’t forget about them
@@chad22345h yes the Featless Fodder S Rank Ninja hope you know S Rank Ninja can be as low as the Sound 4💀
@@percivalknightoftheflames855 we don’t know how strong those 20 ninjas were, so according to your immature logic these 20 s rank ninja could be the same level as kakashi.
This minato vs tobirama is bs since we never see tobirama in a 1v1 combat apart from izuna.A lot of these videos people still are guessing and speculating
Minato can wipe an entire army by himself and is feared by nations. 🤣
If you’re really the best you’ll do the tobirama video first since theres less info around for him, especially with solid analysis behind it 😏
Even if Madara was saying that Tobirama was the fastest of their time, this don't mean much to this battle since Minato is from another era.
Well said. I agree with most of what you said 👏🙏👍. However, when tobirama said that he cant teleport every one like minato can, here is the reason: minato said he cant teleport any thing that he himself or his chakra is touching. Minato can teleport everyone that has his ninetails chakra, remember. And the fact tobirama can use minato's seal or hack them, just shows he is not inferior to minato with FTG. At times in the war tobirama was able to link himself to minato & naruto's chakra to teleport away those in danger. He switch places with Kcm daze minato, this same minato blitz kcm 1 naruto & sauske. Daze minato at times out performed kcm 1 naruto & sauske. So daze kcm minato is far above raikage, early ems sauske, & kcm 1 naruto. But yet his speed & ftg use can be matched by Edo tobi, especially since he was the one coordinating, moving, thinking, & teleporting with minato. 👍
Another point to prove the uselessness of body flicker jutsu & minatos bflicker jutsu: Minato got to the battle field before all the hokages, using bflicker, yes. But through out his life, & all the fights we see him in, his body flicker is so so so useful to him, that he always have to rely on FTG. Against raikage, bee, young obito, even in his kcm mode, when helping guy, when fighting madara, when fighting Onoki's 50 ninjas, in his new one shot. 👍. Minato cant seem to RELY on his body flicker jutsu 🤔, why🤔. Maybe kishimooto implemented bflicker in the series to make ninjas look kool or something. Also, hiruzen arrived on the battle field with his hands on the ground, so its obvious he wasn't running, but rather jumping. Body flicker is jumping, but faster than you would normally jump. Depending on your skills with it, that will determine how far & high you can jump. 👍🙏. Also, look at it this way, hashi arrived after minato, because minato his better at the bflicker jutsu. Now, if bflicker makes you faster in combat, then that means minato is faster than hashi. However, im pretty sure Minato didn't beat obito with bflicker, it was FTG. Hashi cant use FTG but im pretty sure he can blitz young young obito. Madara can too. And toibirama, who was moving & reacting on par with hashi against hiruzen in part one wouldn't even need FTG to blitz younger younger obito. Its no wonder tobirama hardly uses FTG. His life dont depends on it 😂. Minato, however, is always always always, always using FTG. Not only because he's good at it, but also because HIS LIFE DEPENDS on it 🫣😔. Hashi dont need FTG to blitz raikage, or bee. Madara dont too. We even see edo weakened madara reacting to KCM 1 NARUTO and blitzing him. So please tell me how is bflicker useful in a combat situation? And what role did such an awesome technique (bflicker) played in any of the fights in naruto manga/ anime/ novels/ oneshots? Im not saying these things to offend you or anyone, ok. 👍🙏👏👍. Much love ✌️.
Minato is my favorite Kage with Hashirama. Its good to see Minato love.
Still watching so maybe it's mentioned. But he said madara doesn't have good punching or kicking feats, but madara's limbo one shotted each of the tailed beasts
That was after absorbing sage energy from hashi which we know boost physical stats
@@gameuniverse5973 that's right, I forgot about that
19:30 after that shot is also when Juubito realized he can't use Kamui. Meaning he got hit because he let them hit him, expecting that they would simply pass thru with Kamui.
you said winning a battle off speed alone isn’t really possible but before you said the 2nd wouldn’t be scared of the 1st if he could just out speed… i took that as seen with the 1st and 2nd as a sign of respect since the first is the 2nd older brother
no trying to call you out i just didn’t agree with that statement love ya Six
His statement holds strong cuz even with a speed advantage Tobirama couldn't kill Hashirama but Hashirama could stil kill him
The difference is with a speed advantage Tobirama could just get away from Hashirama wich is probably wat Six ment where as if he was slower (outside of ftg) he can't do anything except teleport til he is exhausted
I may have left a comment a year ago, but I just did a rewatch and have to say that you are being very fair to both characters here. After the one shot there is a fair split between whether Minato's interaction with the Nine-Tails there was an actual battle of chakras or more of a metaphorical showing of a battle of wills. I happen to believe the latter, and it was hinting at Minato shared Hashirama's Will of Fire, not that I think it changes anything you've said here.
I just wanted to mention a couple of things you may have missed for some more accurate Tobirama stuff. In the Juubito blitz showing, if you look closely, you can see that paper bombs had been placed on both the side that hit Tobirama's edo and the side that hit the wood clone. So you can't just assume they stuck to his body. At least you can't argue that the ones on his left side weren't placed. This is also when he marks him, as there is more evidence that this was the time they interacted than assuming he ran up to him last second before the bombs exploding. All that being said, it is only a reaction feat, and at best just means he may have been able to get a bit more out of the way, but not that he's faster than even unfocused Juubito.
The One-Rinneganed, Hashirama Cells, Sage Mode enhanced, extrasensory Madara loss isn't really an antifeat in my opinion. Just more of broken Madara being broken. I don't think your him being slower than base Hashirama and Madara argument is all that solid. Any of there other forms would have precognition even if you wanted to say Tobirama and Minato are still faster, and their arsenals are vast enough to pack up either despite it. The speed, power, area of effects, etc, of Sage Hashirama and EMS/Rinnegan Madara's jutsus are just far too much for either of the two from this video could handle. Even if you gave alive Minato KCM2 perfected sage mode, SM Hashirama and Rinnegan Madara just steal Kurama's chakra, or EMS Madara summons the full Nine-Tails, clads it in Full Susanoo armor, and starts making it rain bladed bijuu-damas.
Sidenote, because we don't really have confirmation on what Madara's Mangekyo powers are, it is crazy to think EMS Madara still might have something up his sleeve. That being said, I personally think the limbo clones are at least one of his sharingan abilities. The reason is that Nagato and the Six Paths of Pain didn't have anything that really messed with dimensions and reality unless you count soul hacks. That's Sharingan stuff. Plus, those eyes are Madara's anyway, so they used to be Sharingan.
The only others we see with similar abilities have Rinne-Sharingan or are Otsutski. He didn't really need it until after he regained his body, and it would be next to useless against SM Hashirama until he got up close due to the time-limit. Another reason I think it is his Mangekyo is that the ability is his, and no one else has anything like it really.
The last thing I'll nitpick is Tobirama's wincon, I believe the flying Raijin slash is a superior technique to the Minato's ftg based attacks. My reason in that Tobirama can teleport to you with his sword already connecting, where a lot of the time Minato is seen teleporting often with an attack loaded but then has to move to connect. I don't know if there are outliers for Minato though. I believe I've heard it negs durability and is effectively hitting the same spot innumerable times in that same instant of teleportation, but don't quote me on that one.
So yeah, I think Minato has more consistent showings of being better overall. It even goes with the narrative of getting better than your predecessors, and Minato was clearly inspired by Tobirama. So it just makes sense. I will just say that people that think Tobirama stands no chance against base Hokage or Jonin Minato are doing to much. Again I'll clarify, IF you assume the one-shot comic was a battle of wills like I do. If you think that younger Minato clashed a regular rasengan with full Nine-Tails bijuu bomb, he absolutely slams Tobirama on his neck in the aforementioned forms as well. I think Tobirama could possibly deal with the Nine-Tails being fairly smart and also knows sealing jutsu and such, but I'd be lying to myself if I said he had anything that could stop that bijuu bomb in the same way if it was FP Kurama.
Oh! And kind of PS, I guess. Water is weak to Earth on the chakra wheel, and his water slicing wave cut through HIRUZEN SARUTOBI'S mudwall like butter. So that should count for something. Though I'm not sure if that was anime only or not.
I’m in no way fluent in Japanese although I’ve been studying the language for 2 years now (formally) so I would like to take a crack at translating the Madara statement in my own words.
I took the one at 14:19 of the video to the left since it’s the only one that makes sense (online translations can get funky when trying to go back and forth between them). Here goes:
I’d translate it as:
You were proud of being called the fastest shinobi, yet you’re in a mess/sorry state.
Really he’s mocking Tobirama and more so talking like this (using slang):
You were so proud of being called the fastest but now look at you, it’s pitiful.
Given context and what he says about him having the upper hand on the Senju bros now with them not being at full power the second translation makes the most sense.
To break down, the first part 忍一の速さ just means fastest shinobi. 誇って means to be proud (could say boast but the verb is to be proud) with the って meaning “called” or “named” as part of heresay. It’s used when you’re quoting what you’ve heard/been told. ていた is another grammar point meaning doing something continuous in the past. The last part he’s basically just saying yet here you are now on the ground. Basically again taunting him that he’s not at his full power and he has the upper hand being revived
@@emssasukeisunderrated7946 thank you for this, I think the statement in the video was a bit off and bias.
I doesn’t make sense for the writers to put “boasted” since we know tobirama was actually the fastest of his Time
@@shawngarcia3920 Thank you. I’m not sure if it was bias but understandable it was a bit off given he’s using chat gpt (which as also a computer science guy who’s into NLP/ML I love the model) which online translations especially for Japanese are not the best half the time.
Great vid, do the Tobirama analysis first, King.
I don't even have to get to the Reanimation section to know the Victor.
Kishi made him wayy too OP.
Tobirama calling edo base minato fast already sealed his fate
@@gameuniverse5973 his foot speed was faster than all previos kage
@@gameuniverse5973 Brain of an average minatard:
@@sane7628 just say your mad and move on with your day 😂
@@jashaunowens2907 You're*
Go complete your homework, kid
Minato.
Dang I got here faster than minato washes tobirama
🗿
Just wait for Noodles
AP
Base Minato AP is ass so let's move on.
KCM Minato: KCM Minato should theoretically have the same as KCM2 Naruto not Sage Mode KCM2, meaning he can use Tail Beast bombs, Massive Rasengans, BIg Kurama Avatar.
Tobirama: This is a stretch, but in part 1, Tobirama and Hashirama are nerfed equally. It seems their striking strength is the same. Base Hashirama's striking strength >/~ EMS Madara's striking strength. EMS Madara ~ alive 1 Rinnegan sage mode Madara due to Hashirama saying he is starting to regain his former strength after he got Hashirama's Sage Mode. The same Madara sends a limbo clone, which should still equal the real Madara, to punch all the tail beasts to the floor. Add that with the fact that live 1 Rinnegan sage mode Madara thinks Hashirama or Tobirama would beat him if they were alive.
Tobirama: he can use Tandem Paper Bombs because he has reanimations on hand due to him needing reanimations to activate it, and Hiruzen has seen it already.
Speed
Base Minato: You fail to mention that 14-year-old Obito can react to Minato. Minato does have faster travel speed than Tobirama, But what happens when he runs up to Tobirama? Is he going to have the combat and reaction speed to be fast enough to hit Tobirama? It is possible for you to hit faster than you run.
Kcm Minato: Kcm Minato was dazed, but he got out of his daze after Naruto talked to him, and after his dazed, he was seen running and reaching Obito with War arc Kakashi at the same speed meaning that Kcm Minato should be relative to War arc Kakashi, who is relative to Obito, who is relative to KCM2 Naruto in speed.
Tobirama: Tobirama can tag 10-tails Obito 6 times (5 Paper bombs and a Flying Thunder God seal) when 10-tails Obito only hit him once (The paper bombs did not fly out of his body, meaning inside Tobirama because those are regular paper bonds, not Tandem Paper Bombs). Hashirama being stronger than Tobirama does not necessarily mean he has to be faster; Tobirama can be faster but not a speed Blitz of a difference.
Tobirama: Edo Madara can react to KCM2 Naruto. And Tobirama can react to alive 1 Rinnegan Sage Mode Madara. Madara wasn't holding back; he literally said he would take things more seriously now after he summons the Gedo statue.
Conclusion
So Tobirama Speed Blitz and One shot
That’s the truth right there 🗿
@@hennigod8957 facts
You guys are so lame dont even know how to scale..
Tobirama even as a weaken edo was able to keep up with old huruzen who is relative to orochimaru, orochimaru~jiraiya who is stated to master abilities above the 5 great nations, which should include the kages, proof hiruzen is above the kages is that even after hiruzen came back in the 4th war, he was the same as he left only that he has more stamina, and he was able to do better than the 5 kage who got stronger as the war went on, so tobirama full power >~ hiruzen> 5kage.
Minato>~ obito~> pain>> 5kage. Minato> hiruzen 13 years before orochimaru fight, orochimaru being above 5kage, when hiruzen was around 13 years before the orochimaru fight, minato was considered the fastest shinobi, obito kept up with that briefly, minato beat him still putting both>> hiruzen>> old hiruzen~> 5kage, this makes minato being faster than raikage and killer bee consistent.
Before we knew that obito was behind the mask, based off feats we were lead to believe it was madara, obito was definitely not shown as a 14 year old wimp slouch, he was demonstrated as very powerful and minato beating him was presented as one of the greatest feats in the show, so using that as a way to downplay minato does not work especially when we learn he has hashirama cell amp, plus he was doing madara level stuff as said before.
Plus like as i said both obito and minato scake over hiruzen in speed at the time, if hiruzen in edo is relative to tobirama, tobirama against izuna, who was half blind, was bearly able to beat him with ftg, his ftg was definitely not its best, yet you have this minato who can use ftg to perfection thinking obito was madara and thinking kamui is better than tobirama and minatos respectively, this means that tobirama would also struggle against 14 year old obito, but he would know its not madara though.
Another debunk here is kcm1> minato thats not true, its already debunked but basically naruto admitted that 4th raikage not even at top speed can keep up with bijuu mode, raikage is telling kcm naruto, that while minato was alive he didnt see him losing to anyone. So naruto didnt really get the raikage credit until he move faster than his top speed, similar feat to what minato did as a jonin mind you. Which is consistent that only times naruto is compared to minato was when hes full power going at his max speed, and six debunk the bee statement killer bee knows what ftg is so hes not comparing naruto just getting kcm to minato with ftg, just his body flicker, which makes sense, so minato should be faster still than basic kcm1.
Tobirama lost to kinkaku and ginkaku, twice, very cut and dry, first time he had help from the raikage yet he was left near death, despite his 5 chakra natures his flying raijin, his edo tensei, tandem paperbombs, his bringer of darkness, all those jutsu he had them all against the gold and silver brothers, yet he lost,twice, the second time was more understandable, but the first time, no sir he was not him for that, minato fought like Ay and killer bee, and left them convinced hesvone of the greatest shinobi they ever fought, force the literal 8tails jinchuriki to put their lives on the line, was giving them the works, raikage did not show that much respect for kin and gin, and killer bee is stronger than any 8tails that they have seen, yet minato was able to beat them, and raikage was giving him props that he thought minato would never lose? Yet minato becomes kage gets a little stronger, face someone he thought was madara and beat him, and you people think tobirama alive is stronger than alive minato? How? What way? Its stupid people like you guys are just being bias for tobirama theres nothing factual rather than some foolishness in the war people blow out of proportion.
While alive minato fights way stronger opponents than tobirama and has way better feats against them at their best in their primes, so minato obviously scales above tobirama while alive, then edo to edo, edo literally amps tobirama a little bit just not physically but jutsu wise yes tobirama was amped becayse he can use his body for tandem paper bombs, minato now can use his senjutsu, and kcm, so minato who already scales above tobirama gets stronger and is now ahead of him, what else is there to say more that minato would win?
@@momotheone9700 not reading your minatard essay🗿 just drop your discord & we can vc about it
@@momotheone9700 your the one that doesn’t know how to scale. From your logic, 14 year old obito is > 5 kage. Does that sound right to you. And the earth kage of the 5 kage will destroy minato, and you said that tobirama is above them and also from you logic base minato is above base and even sage hashi due to edo hashi being ~ to the 3rd hokage
Because I really like Minato, I absolutely take the feat of him speed blitzing his own teleportation as Minato being faster than teleportation because broken speed is crazy funny. And that's his main thing.
Well said. I agree with most of what you said 👏🙏👍. However, when tobirama said that he cant teleport every one like minato can, here is the reason: minato said he cant teleport any thing that he himself or his chakra is touching. Minato can teleport everyone that has his ninetails chakra, remember. And the fact tobirama can use minato's seal or hack them, just shows he is not inferior to minato with FTG. At times in the war tobirama was able to link himself to minato & naruto's chakra to teleport away those in danger. He switch places with Kcm daze minato, this same minato blitz kcm 1 naruto & sauske. Daze minato at times out performed kcm 1 naruto & sauske. So daze kcm minato is far above raikage, early ems sauske, & kcm 1 naruto. But yet his speed & ftg use can be matched by Edo tobi, especially since he was the one coordinating, moving, thinking, & teleporting with minato. 👍
Another point to prove the uselessness of body flicker jutsu & minatos bflicker jutsu: Minato got to the battle field before all the hokages, using bflicker, yes. But through out his life, & all the fights we see him in, his body flicker is so so so useful to him, that he always have to rely on FTG. Against raikage, bee, young obito, even in his kcm mode, when helping guy, when fighting madara, when fighting Onoki's 50 ninjas, in his new one shot. 👍. Minato cant seem to RELY on his body flicker jutsu 🤔, why🤔. Maybe kishimooto implemented bflicker in the series to make ninjas look kool or something. Also, hiruzen arrived on the battle field with his hands on the ground, so its obvious he wasn't running, but rather jumping. Body flicker is jumping, but faster than you would normally jump. Depending on your skills with it, that will determine how far & high you can jump. 👍🙏. Also, look at it this way, hashi arrived after minato, because minato his better at the bflicker jutsu. Now, if bflicker makes you faster in combat, then that means minato is faster than hashi. However, im pretty sure Minato didn't beat obito with bflicker, it was FTG. Hashi cant use FTG but im pretty sure he can blitz young young obito. Madara can too. And toibirama, who was moving & reacting on par with hashi against hiruzen in part one wouldn't even need FTG to blitz younger younger obito. Its no wonder tobirama hardly uses FTG. His life dont depends on it 😂. Minato, however, is always always always, always using FTG. Not only because he's good at it, but also because HIS LIFE DEPENDS on it 🫣😔. Hashi dont need FTG to blitz raikage, or bee. Madara dont too. We even see edo weakened madara reacting to KCM 1 NARUTO and blitzing him. So please tell me how is bflicker useful in a combat situation? And what role did such an awesome technique (bflicker) played in any of the fights in naruto manga/ anime/ novels/ oneshots? Im not saying these things to offend you or anyone, ok. 👍🙏👏👍. Much love ✌️.
All tobirama has to do is use edo tensi on hashi or Madara and they’ll take care of minato
I would just like to dispute your claims about tankiness and durability where you try to equalize the two. Even to go as far and say sage mode Minato is not even close to Tobirama. It comes from the relation of Madara to Itachi(Sasuke, Shisui, or any other modern day Uciha), or Hashirama to pretty much anyone of the current era generation shinobi.
Its always the feel you get that older generation were more physical and the way they are presented with more armor pieces and just looking at the 3 of them, Madara, Hashirama and Tobirama. And I am not saying he is close to Tobirama, but he is a Senju and his brother after all.
And the only one to be presented as they were is ironically Jiraya, thats also old and closer to them generationally than to the new generations.
I agree, the senju's were able to overpower the Uchiha's, tobirama is by far stronger than Minato. 👍
Not to say that this decides the whole fight, but on the durability scaling, why is Tobirama being put in Minato's durability level for being impaled by MADARA, sliced by TEN-TAILS OBITO, and Kinkaku & Ginkaku when their only scaling was having to be sealed by six paths tech to beat? Meanwhile Minato gets impaled by shrapnel from a paper bomb? I don't see these being on the same level.
Yeah but minato also took a kick by sage of six paths madara whose stronger than one rinnegan hashirama sage mode madara and juubito, he also took a hit feom an enton rasenshuriken from naruto and sasuke combined and was fine, so thats why its a fair comparison
@@momotheone9700 He wasn't fine, he regened because he was an edo tensei. It's stated that no one can withstand a rasenshuriken hit, unless you have durability on a celular level. Edo Tensei Madara had to absorb it because if he didn't he would've just get sealed and Minato only got hit by a split second and not really the best durability feat for him
@@momotheone9700 i understand, but Minato was in kcm mode when he got hit by rasenshuriken. Secondly, madara didn't take Minato seriously, he just kicked him away and cut off his arm. But with hashirama and tobirama SENJU, he restrained them with is rods. Reason why (" their is a reason you two brothers cant regain your true power ". " Im the one the heavens are smiling upon now"")etc. Madara was very confident that prime tobirama and hashirama were alot stronger than they were in the war. Tobirama is also a natural senju, they have great Chakra and stamina, the same clan who defeated the Uchiha's.
They get pierced by everything....I dont think that goes against durability. Piercing stuff just seems to do whatever.
@@momotheone9700 actually the rasen that hit him or kakashi didn’t take full effect cause he ftgd both
Nahh all love keep it up❤️
At least second
First
I feel like Rock in Boruto should beat Tobirama. I feel like Rock Lee would scale to Gaara and the 4 kage in Boruto, they Fought Momoshiki and Kinshiki who are leagues above 10 tails Madara
Well said. I agree with most of what you said 👏🙏👍. However, when tobirama said that he cant teleport every one like minato can, here is the reason: minato said he cant teleport any thing that he himself or his chakra is touching. Minato can teleport everyone that has his ninetails chakra, remember. And the fact tobirama can use minato's seal or hack them, just shows he is not inferior to minato with FTG. At times in the war tobirama was able to link himself to minato & naruto's chakra to teleport away those in danger. He switch places with Kcm daze minato, this same minato blitz kcm 1 naruto & sauske. Daze minato at times out performed kcm 1 naruto & sauske. So daze kcm minato is far above raikage, early ems sauske, & kcm 1 naruto. But yet his speed & ftg use can be matched by Edo tobi, especially since he was the one coordinating, moving, thinking, & teleporting with minato. 👍
Another point to prove the uselessness of body flicker jutsu & minatos bflicker jutsu: Minato got to the battle field before all the hokages, using bflicker, yes. But through out his life, & all the fights we see him in, his body flicker is so so so useful to him, that he always have to rely on FTG. Against raikage, bee, young obito, even in his kcm mode, when helping guy, when fighting madara, when fighting Onoki's 50 ninjas, in his new one shot. 👍. Minato cant seem to RELY on his body flicker jutsu 🤔, why🤔. Maybe kishimooto implemented bflicker in the series to make ninjas look kool or something. Also, hiruzen arrived on the battle field with his hands on the ground, so its obvious he wasn't running, but rather jumping. Body flicker is jumping, but faster than you would normally jump. Depending on your skills with it, that will determine how far & high you can jump. 👍🙏. Also, look at it this way, hashi arrived after minato, because minato his better at the bflicker jutsu. Now, if bflicker makes you faster in combat, then that means minato is faster than hashi. However, im pretty sure Minato didn't beat obito with bflicker, it was FTG. Hashi cant use FTG but im pretty sure he can blitz young young obito. Madara can too. And toibirama, who was moving & reacting on par with hashi against hiruzen in part one wouldn't even need FTG to blitz younger younger obito. Its no wonder tobirama hardly uses FTG. His life dont depends on it 😂. Minato, however, is always always always, always using FTG. Not only because he's good at it, but also because HIS LIFE DEPENDS on it 🫣😔. Hashi dont need FTG to blitz raikage, or bee. Madara dont too. We even see edo weakened madara reacting to KCM 1 NARUTO and blitzing him. So please tell me how is bflicker useful in a combat situation? And what role did such an awesome technique (bflicker) played in any of the fights in naruto manga/ anime/ novels/ oneshots? Im not saying these things to offend you or anyone, ok. 👍🙏👏👍. Much love ✌️.
I appreciate the honesty and effort. However, a few things to mention:
1. You didn't even adress the 2 statements about Raikage being on par, or not inferior to Minato in speed. There is also a statement of Bee where he called MS Sasuke his strongest opponent (which would include Minato). Sage mode Naruto was said to surpass his predecessors (even Minato considering he learned Sage mode). All those statements are a clear indicator on how Minato wasn't as impressive as many people think.
2. I believe that the feat where Tobiraman blitzes unstable Juubito is actually valid. Since the scene shows how Tobirama put 5 paper bombs and 1 FTG seal, making it a clear blitz, and all tthat without Juubito even noticing, it is your burden to prove why would he hold back against them. So all this "we can't say for sure if he was holding back or not so I won't include this feat" doesn't work. And if you think about it, why would he? He was going up against God of shinobi and his brother. Hiruzen reacting to Juubito is not a proof aswell, since old Hiruzen was actually amped by Edo in comparison to his alive part one version because his age wasn't a problem anymore. War ark Hiruzen was actually prime Hiruzen with Edo nerf. And no, Minato doesn't scale above Hiruzen's combat speed (which matters the most), only travel speed with bodyflicker.
3. I don't like the fact that you just decided to not take Madara's statement as valid just because of alternate interpretation. If you take more things into account, like Tobirama reacting to Juubito faster than Hashirama and reacting to that same Madara who had Sage mode, Hashirama cells and one rinnegan (and Tobirama was nerfed) it is much more likely that the interpretation in which Madara actually admitted that Tobirama was the fastest is the right one. Also the context of that statement is important aswell. Madara was actually mocking Tobirama for not being at full power and fast as he used to be while Madara just keeps gaining amps.
4. Minato was relative in (combat) speed to 14 year old Obito, which is pathetic in comparisson to Tobirama who has scaling over unstable Juubito and prime Hashirama and Madara.
So I think that winner is pretty clear. It's Tobirama.
People need to understand, that kishimooto didn't properly think through Minato and obito's characters. Minato got faster as an edo all of a sudden. Obito had 16 or 17 years to train, he should have become insanely faster, but instead other people can react and fight him. If a 15 year old has two degrees, then in 15 more years he should have way more degrees when he is 30. Minato, died but is still faster than.............. kishimooto is brilliant, but he confuses me sometimes. When Minato is called the fastest, he can blitz anyone, but when tobirama is called the fastest he cant blitz everyone. Its just so confusing. 👍
@@kelvinallen9327 I'm confuse. What is your point?
@@markoglokevic1383 bee was talking about a jonin Minato Hokage is stronger so no it not a anti feat
@@gameuniverse5973 it potentially is. We don't know how much stronger Minato got.
1. He said Toughest opponent and toughest has multiple meanings you can ascribe to Sasuke that nay fit the context but saying he's stronger is baseless. The statements about the Raikage were irrelevant to the video as I didn't feel scale Tobirama higher than Raikage.
2. I didn't give just alternate interpretations I gave you what the kanji actually says on the page from multiple different translated sources and Madara does NOT say Tobirama is the fastest Shinobi.
3. It's not my burden to prove he was holding back at all as I didn't claim it I simply mentioned it as a possibility due to him not being in his right mind state. Him going up against the God of Shinobi doesn't matter at all it's not a being with Reasoning that version of Obito didn't even recognize his own name so that's null. It's literally just an argument from ignorance to say he scales to full speed Juubito since you can't prove he's holding back the argument can be flipped the other way as well you can't prove he was going all out so he was holding back which is just faulty reasoning.
4. This is just a reassertion of him scaling to Hashirama & Juubito based on little to no evidence.
I really hope they tell us how minato learned Flying raijin in the spin off.
That's not fair. Tobirama is inventor and minato is improver-practicer. You can't compare Einstein with modern scientists
You should have said newton instead of Einstein
You can compare, it just makes the answer obvious lol
You guys are silly, being an inventor does not mean your smarter than everyone, just take the person who invented the telephone, and Steve Jobs, both are important, but look at the difference within a phone over time, its almost unrecognizable to what it was before, your telling me the guy who invented the phone is more intelligent or is superior to the Steve Jobs juat because he created it? No way bruh, same here tobirama created flying raijin which is important, but minato makes that jutsu godly, so due to his advancement of that jutsu, he should just be a superior shinobi with its usage.
@@momotheone9700 steve jobs didn't create smartphone. He was a businessman. His team made it.
Telephone and smartphone are two entirely different technology. Smartphone is compressed version of laptop with touchscreen. Telephone was just for talking.
Their flying raijin doesn't have much difference. Both have same applications. Both have same applications.
Newton made so many laws & formulas in kinematics, gravity, thermal (all correct). And he's said to be the smartest scientist ever lived. Making something is much more difficult than updating it.
Tobirama is smarter than minato, more experienced, much more knowledgeable. Juubito fight showed it along with his reaction speed.
“Obviously the answer is me.”
Goated ❤
It’s almost unfair to compare Tobirama to anyone. With the amount jutsu he has There’s honestly no telling what he was capable of while living.
The only real reference points are the Gold/Silver brothers & even they are hard to scale 💀.
Let me make the Scaling easy for u : (1) kinkaku and ginkaku took Chakra from the full ninetails. Long before kushina ever became its jinchuriki, long before Minato separated kurama into 2. They literally had the good shi+ . Both combinations. So what ever we saw 4 tails naruto doing to orochimaru and pain, guess what ? Kin & gin manifested 6 tails , and had both yin and yang mixtures, some good shi+. (2) ninetails leaked out Chakra healed kid naruto even after sauske stabbed him with a chidori. (3) ninetails Chakra version two makes ur outer body very very durable, not even orochimaru long hard snake sword could penetrate naruto version 2 body.
Well you can scale gold and silver brothers. They had all 5 sage of six paths weapons and in Databooks, it is stated, whoever demonstrates the power of those weapons, even surpasses the gokage(5 Kage). They also had nine tails chakra too, like the other guy mentioned. so they are above 5 kage.
Here you go
Kin and gin > 5 kage
Well you can scale the gold and silver brothers, as they had 5 sage of six paths weapons and in the databooks, it’s stated, whoever demonstrates the power of those weapons surpasses even the gokage(5 kage).
Here you go
Kin and gin > 5 kage
Bro you have to be lying. There’s know way you think Hashirama being able to calm Tobirama down means that he’s even stronger, let alone FASTER… what?? Hashi is Tobiramas, Hokage, leader, big brother, best friend, closest ally and the greatest hero he’s ever know, also Hashi was right that he needed to calm down … him cooperating is a sign of respect not fear… even if you think it’s means he’s stronger which makes 0 sense, how do you leap to him being faster? You know you can lose a fight even if you’re the faster person right? If not then why even have the UFC or boxing? Let’s just measure everyone’s speeds and then we’ll know who’s the best 🤦🏽♂️
If you get riled up as a grown man and your mom calms you down is that cuz you’re scared your mom will speed blitz you and whoop your ass? 😂No it’s respect, use you’re common sense
That’s the entire basis of you saying Tobirama was not the fastest of his time and it makes 0 sense. Why do you y’all want minato to be stronger soooo bad
Honestly, I see the two of them either in a stalemate or Tobirama wins. Minato for all his strengths still doesn't measure up to the most powerful Senju after Hashirama who is a reincarnation of a god. Tobirama is gonna figure out that Minato uses FTG and once that happens, Tobi won't engage Minato in a speed contest, rather he'd just probe Minato to find openings while getting him to overuse FTG. Both are incredibly intelligent but Tobirama is always ready in this department. What seals it for me is that Tobirama has an arsenal of techs and even greater chakra reserves than Minato. I'm confident that while we've seen most of what Minato can do... we haven't seen more than half what Tobirama can do. There is just more to him than meets the eye. Just my observation
Minato, obviously
The bigger question is why does Tobirama dress like he's from some arctic region? 😅
Its a cool style
Downplaying tobirama while making excuses for minato... not surprised
As always it’s six lmao
🤡if anything he wanked his ass man ain't even KCM2 Level
It was a good video, but I noticed it too
Yeah it was too much. Any body can see it. If the 4th do it it is a great Testament to his speed. If the 2nd do the same thing.......well he just teleport.
Minato has a better version of the Flying Raijin, that’s the big difference.
3:32 Didn’t base Madara one tap Sage Naruto with one kick while blind right after he got revived be Rinne Rebirth?
Hey! thunderGod (smaller TH-camr) got hacked and his channel is now called Mercedes-Benz. It's currently streaming a weird Tesla video. Spread the word so thunderGods fans can see this and stop watching the fake stream.
It's so ducking weird. You can tell it's a hacked account because all the videos are gone but the community tab is still the same and he's a fellow Naruto creator, so his community tab is full of Naruto announcements for his vids.
Love your vids six and agree with you a lot but like nah, Swag is the best Naruto scaller on the platform. You're up there but Swag is the GOAT.
This is literally like comparing modern navy seals to WW2 army rangers. They were good back in the day but we've kept iterating on soldier training and gear to the point that a functioning seal team is basically unstoppable. 4 seals vs 4 army rangers is a slaughter.
This is just that stuff they do in anime with the whole "the new generation will surpass the old."
Honestly outside of Madara and Hashirama there is a clear progression of power over the generations. I think it's a cool part of the story going on in the background.
Gonna make people angry but here goes war arc Kakashi is stronger than base alive Minato
Tsunade was weaker despite being the 5th. The 3rd Kazekage was stronger than Rasa. Being a newer generation doesn't guarantee that you'll be stronger. Kiba's sister is not stronger than prime Senju and Uchiha from Madara and Hashirama's era just because she's born later.
@@JonaD757 yeah but her generation was stronger, it's about the overall.
@@virn333 Meanwhile the Sand village got weaker due to cuts in military spending, the Mist village had so much internal turmoil that they were severely hampered, post-war the new gen is soft due to a lack of hardship and increasing disinterest in becoming ninja.
I agree in Boruto advancement of tech creates a gap, but during a lot of Naruto there are previous characters that are seldom surpassed. Constant war kills off a lot of talent (Dan, Tsunade's younger brother, etc.), but also hones those who survive. Hagoromo and Hamura were weaker than Kaguya, Indra and Asura were weaker than Hagoromo (as well as Hamura's descendants), etc. In Naruto secret techniques are sometimes lost, Uchiha all running around with Izanami and Izanagi, versus those for several generations without it. The Uzamaki clan being genocided led to the loss of a ton of Sealing jutsu.
I agree there's an element of what you said, in building on what came before in regards to jutsu/training,technological development etc. But, with Naruto being a supernatural world there are tons of exceptions to those rules.
@@JonaD757 that's cool. Story is about the will of fire. Learn to read.
Minato slams with kcm and sm. Base still wins due to being faster and better fr. Simple tbh. Body flicker is faster for Minato too due to war arc. Gg tobiramatards
Good to see you batman
My man got chat gpt to help out in this video☠
Can you do Jiraiya vs. Kakuzu?
Jiraiya loses if he can't enter sage mode but i see the toads holding off Kakazu enough for that so Kakazu loses also on Kakashi attitude over hearing Jiraiya death means he held him higher than him a better debate would be Jiraiya vs Sasori and deidara
Jiraiya slapping this clown
Very disingenuous to say just because hashirama is superior overall that means his faster than Tobirama Tobirama can legit not bypass his regen or his durability
Even tho he was impaled do you think the fact thate he prevented kuramas claw from killing naruto could be a durability feat or strength feat minato
Even if you wanted to say that, kushina was there too and if it wasn't for her, the claw would have gotten to naruto so its not that impressive for Minato
@@Farenhyte- yeah but can it even be quantified how much she helped
@@Farenhyte- based off of chain scaling for karin kushina might not be all that strong in base
@@NebulosDragon By that logic we can't quantify how much minato helped since the claw hit them both simultaneously. And we can't scale kushina to karin by any metric other than sealing ability, not physical strength
@@Farenhyte- we can use the chains
Just hear me out @22:00 minato reaching to the battlefield before the other hokages is due to the marking on the eight tails he left when they met years ago remember the mark never goes away "wait i never thought u that did i obito"
Its very possible , and also eight tails was literally touching tentails bomb and we didn't see any flying thunder god guiding thunder barrier or seal appearing like against the ninetails. Its possible Minato may have sensed his seal on eight tails as he got closer to the field and teleported to him and touched and teleported the bomb away. 👍
Well said. I agree with most of what you said 👏🙏👍. However, when tobirama said that he cant teleport every one like minato can, here is the reason: minato said he cant teleport any thing that he himself or his chakra is touching. Minato can teleport everyone that has his ninetails chakra, remember. And the fact tobirama can use minato's seal or hack them, just shows he is not inferior to minato with FTG. At times in the war tobirama was able to link himself to minato & naruto's chakra to teleport away those in danger. He switch places with Kcm daze minato, this same minato blitz kcm 1 naruto & sauske. Daze minato at times out performed kcm 1 naruto & sauske. So daze kcm minato is far above raikage, early ems sauske, & kcm 1 naruto. But yet his speed & ftg use can be matched by Edo tobi, especially since he was the one coordinating, moving, thinking, & teleporting with minato. 👍
Another point to prove the uselessness of body flicker jutsu & minatos bflicker jutsu: Minato got to the battle field before all the hokages, using bflicker, yes. But through out his life, & all the fights we see him in, his body flicker is so so so useful to him, that he always have to rely on FTG. Against raikage, bee, young obito, even in his kcm mode, when helping guy, when fighting madara, when fighting Onoki's 50 ninjas, in his new one shot. 👍. Minato cant seem to RELY on his body flicker jutsu 🤔, why🤔. Maybe kishimooto implemented bflicker in the series to make ninjas look kool or something. Also, hiruzen arrived on the battle field with his hands on the ground, so its obvious he wasn't running, but rather jumping. Body flicker is jumping, but faster than you would normally jump. Depending on your skills with it, that will determine how far & high you can jump. 👍🙏. Also, look at it this way, hashi arrived after minato, because minato his better at the bflicker jutsu. Now, if bflicker makes you faster in combat, then that means minato is faster than hashi. However, im pretty sure Minato didn't beat obito with bflicker, it was FTG. Hashi cant use FTG but im pretty sure he can blitz young young obito. Madara can too. And toibirama, who was moving & reacting on par with hashi against hiruzen in part one wouldn't even need FTG to blitz younger younger obito. Its no wonder tobirama hardly uses FTG. His life dont depends on it 😂. Minato, however, is always always always, always using FTG. Not only because he's good at it, but also because HIS LIFE DEPENDS on it 🫣😔. Hashi dont need FTG to blitz raikage, or bee. Madara dont too. We even see edo weakened madara reacting to KCM 1 NARUTO and blitzing him. So please tell me how is bflicker useful in a combat situation? And what role did such an awesome technique (bflicker) played in any of the fights in naruto manga/ anime/ novels/ oneshots? Im not saying these things to offend you or anyone, ok. 👍🙏👏👍. Much love ✌️.
13:27 it’s only annoying because it puts him way above minato💀 & because it’s blatantly the truth lmao🗿
Its annoying because its a big fat lie tobirama fans cling to because they no minato is way superior
@@momotheone9700 how is it a lie 💀 go on explain without mental gyming 😭
Love your videos bro
I can’t believe people still think this a debate, minato would slam tobi or it would be a draw. Under no circumstances does tobirama win.
Tobirama wins .Watch noodle's video. He's the best naruto powerscaler. He stomped Six in an earlier debate
@@sane7628 the same noodles who got beat by swag lol
@@vinno5901 no he didn't, did you even watch the debate? Swag was getting help from others and STILL didn't win
@@sane7628 judges>you swag won via judgement
@@vinno5901 the judges were clearly biased, noodles literally debunked every argument swag made. Also, the debate wasnt even finished. Let alone the fact that swag was getting help from six
that subliminal shot at ‘other’ naruto scalers 👀😂😂
Minato would beat tobriama and be back in time to have some time with kushina
💀
Idk, we never got to see what Tobirama could do at full power, I know he died against the gold and silver brothers but he was weak there right? Tobirama in a Vs thing seems shaky
Well said. I agree with most of what you said 👏🙏👍. However, when tobirama said that he cant teleport every one like minato can, here is the reason: minato said he cant teleport any thing that he himself or his chakra is touching. Minato can teleport everyone that has his ninetails chakra, remember. And the fact tobirama can use minato's seal or hack them, just shows he is not inferior to minato with FTG. At times in the war tobirama was able to link himself to minato & naruto's chakra to teleport away those in danger. He switch places with Kcm daze minato, this same minato blitz kcm 1 naruto & sauske. Daze minato at times out performed kcm 1 naruto & sauske. So daze kcm minato is far above raikage, early ems sauske, & kcm 1 naruto. But yet his speed & ftg use can be matched by Edo tobi, especially since he was the one coordinating, moving, thinking, & teleporting with minato. 👍
Another point to prove the uselessness of body flicker jutsu & minatos bflicker jutsu: Minato got to the battle field before all the hokages, using bflicker, yes. But through out his life, & all the fights we see him in, his body flicker is so so so useful to him, that he always have to rely on FTG. Against raikage, bee, young obito, even in his kcm mode, when helping guy, when fighting madara, when fighting Onoki's 50 ninjas, in his new one shot. 👍. Minato cant seem to RELY on his body flicker jutsu 🤔, why🤔. Maybe kishimooto implemented bflicker in the series to make ninjas look kool or something. Also, hiruzen arrived on the battle field with his hands on the ground, so its obvious he wasn't running, but rather jumping. Body flicker is jumping, but faster than you would normally jump. Depending on your skills with it, that will determine how far & high you can jump. 👍🙏. Also, look at it this way, hashi arrived after minato, because minato his better at the bflicker jutsu. Now, if bflicker makes you faster in combat, then that means minato is faster than hashi. However, im pretty sure Minato didn't beat obito with bflicker, it was FTG. Hashi cant use FTG but im pretty sure he can blitz young young obito. Madara can too. And toibirama, who was moving & reacting on par with hashi against hiruzen in part one wouldn't even need FTG to blitz younger younger obito. Its no wonder tobirama hardly uses FTG. His life dont depends on it 😂. Minato, however, is always always always, always using FTG. Not only because he's good at it, but also because HIS LIFE DEPENDS on it 🫣😔. Hashi dont need FTG to blitz raikage, or bee. Madara dont too. We even see edo weakened madara reacting to KCM 1 NARUTO and blitzing him. So please tell me how is bflicker useful in a combat situation? And what role did such an awesome technique (bflicker) played in any of the fights in naruto manga/ anime/ novels/ oneshots? Im not saying these things to offend you or anyone, ok. 👍🙏👏👍. Much love ✌️.
Tobirama killed MS izuna, who was said to be the equal of Madara. Madara literally had to be EMS to be above tobirama
@@bobjohnson1633 yes,
so true 👍
Alive versions tobirama stomps. Edo minato with sage mode and kcm was just for plot conveniences. There’s no way someone wouldn’t release there full power protecting literally everything there care about, for an example jariyah who couldn’t even master sage mode still tried to use it to gather info to protect Naruto.
Tobrima even Stated Base Minato is Faster Then him.
Nah. Tobirama flat out says minato has better speed and use of ftg which is true. Minato can teleport with his kunai, he can teleport attacks, and he has better physical feats. The only thing tobirama has to win is a suicide bomb attack. Even that would require prep
@@elpopman2055 exactly. Why do they ignore this? The man literally said minato has better ftg
even Minato got faster in war. Just before he died, he was moving on par with young young obito in speed. 👍
@@elpopman2055 Minato arrived before hashirama too, but does that mean he can blitz hashirama or madara his rival.
Tobirama wins mid diff..try and change my mind
I think it’s odd that sasuke is just flat out ‘weaker’ after losing his eye. Kakashi after losing the sharingan was able to create the purple raikuri since he doesn’t have the Chakra fatigue. Shouldn’t sasuke have access to more chakra since his eye isn’t constantly draining his stamina? Boruto is weird man I don’t like it much 😂
Because a natural rinnegan is shown boosting your stats are you dumb ems Madara went from losing to hashi with the Kyuubi with a natural rinnegan being able to tie with edo hashi on his own wit this hashi being arguably stronger since he showed he learn deity gates which means he probably got stronger after the ems Madara fight
Kakashi body wasn't meant to host a sharingan so it was burden. Sasuke body lost a valuable asset that its body constitutes as necessary. That's why Sasuke is weaker
What does more chakra grant you if the enemies absorb chakra and are nukes
@sampalace358 that's an entirely different argument.