Hope your family member is successful with their treatment. My girlfriend has been exclusively utilizing level 1 charging for the Bolt and it’s more than adequate for her day to day driving. Fun to see that neighborhood application!
Love your channel. Your insights and opinions encouraged me to buy a 2023 bolt euv. Just past 3k miles, loving it. Saddened to hear the cancer news. Will keep you and your family in our thoughts.
6:30 I mean... To a large extent, yes a 40 amp EVSE draw on a 50 amp rated circuit is a lot, but using an RV park as a measure of how well it can be handled in the wild is... The only thing LESS reliably wired than an average RV power pole is probably an average marina power pole, which has the same problems of long distances, "expense aware" management (in general, there are good ones), and adds the complications of a wet environment (often with salt water) and moves with the tides too. The big problem that I see is that there will need to be some engineering done to make 14-50 receptacles that can actually take a lot of plugging. Even though they look beefy from the outside, they're really expected to only have a life of a small hundreds of insertions, because things like ranges and dryers get plugged in once, stay plugged in, and then get removed when the equipment is replaced after a decade or two. And speccing up the receptacles means it's going to take even more physical effort and risk arcing when people inevitably don't follow proper power-down process like removing the car plug first. Honestly, keeping it at level 1 seems like a great way to provide for crisis, but limit the amount of abuse and hogging that might otherwise obtain. Few people are going to charge there for distance. They're going to charge there because they arrived too low to get to some faster charging place, and they need ten miles to get to a DCFC when they're going home. Even someone commuting isn't probably going to charge there *every* day when they've got a 24 amp Level 2 at home.
Great points. I used to think the average plug cycle life for J1772 and CCS was low, but by comparison, yes, the NEMA plugs are much shorter lived. Really, when we factor in cost of both installation and power for the host, 120 V is probably the easiest way to get people a crucial service at a time when it's most useful. Also, this facility literally has hundreds of kW of overhead solar over several parking lots, so the draw from this "station" probably isn't even a blip on their power bill.
@@newscoulomb3705 whereas just building that station, with the trenched power, custom enclosure, signs, labor, design work and permitting probably cost $20k. ;)
Another gr8 review as usual. I got an update on my Bolt EV order. I saw my salesman on Saturday. He made a mistake when he told me my Bolt order was canceled. He says if it's not fulfilled by the end of August then it will be canceled. Apparently I'm back in the game. Anyway, he had a 2020 Bolt EV on the lot and I test drove it. I've never driven an EV before and I was blown away. About a week ago I was at Carmax and I was ready to buy a 2013 mercedes-benz C250 sport. It was in immaculate condition. I'm so glad I didn't pull the trigger. Keep up the gr8 reviews. 🚙 🇺🇸 🔌
Definitely took advantage of Level 1 charging back in 2018 and 2019 with my Chevy Bolt. Used to charge at work in light poles with 120v outlets before they installed L2 units. Also at home as I didn’t bother with installing a 240v outlet. I recall one road trip to the mountains where I stayed in a cabin and ran my EVSE out the window of the cabin to my car as I was there two nights, I was all topped up when I returned home.
I've often thought a 120v outlet at every light pole in the Larkspur (Calif) Ferry station parking lot would be super helpful for charing while parked there all day.
6:45 Some EVs can charge at more than 12 amps on 120 volt service. E-GMP cars like the Ioniq 5 and EV6 can pull a max of 16 amps on 120 V which is almost 2 kW. Teslas are famous for having no 120 V limitation, so they can use the full 24 amps a NEMA TT-30 120 volt RV outlet can provide. 7:40 If a business is going through all this effort to run power and install an electrical pedestal in the parking lot, then they should really just go all the way and install a regular 240 volt AC J1772 charger. It would offer them more power management than just installing wall outlets and would be far more useful to EV drivers. Installing outlets of any kind is far less robust and more prone to failure compared to just a regular J1772 charger. Also, not every EV driver carries a portable EVSE with them all the time. Most people with new EVs today that are less efficient and have bigger batteries wouldn't even consider using 120 V unless it's for multiple days at home. Even 6 kW AC charging is becoming bare bones for most EVs today. Hope you're doing well!
Thanks! I think this site was put in nearly six years ago, so I don't think they anticipated the level of use they are seeing today. It's interesting that the E-GMP cars can pull 16 A on 120 V. I guess I didn't realize that. Hopefully, it's a setting. I think GM is smart to still default to 8 A on 120 V. That seems the safest option.
I use my portable EVSE at home since I don’t have level 2 charging in my rental home. I’ve gotten out of the habit of taking the EVSE with me unless I’m going on a longer trip that will require charging. That said I would definitely appreciate businesses that make electrical outlets available
Nice review. Level 1 is more useful than most people think, and certainly better than nothing. You can add 40 miles of range or more overnight at 12 amps, and even at 8 it can be helpful. It's also cheaper to install than level 2. There are good use cases for it. I'd still prefer a mix of level 1 and 2 so people have a choice, though, same as I prefer a level 2 for a backup and alternative at DCFC sites. It just makes sense.
Definitely. I keep coming back to the idea that, with 8 A limits set, this single post could be charging 8 EVs simultaneously (slower, but better for long-term parking).
For a site to go to 240v, they’d likely end up doing ChargePoint with 6.6 kWh per unit split between 2 plugs. More effective than 110v and de-risks overrunning lines. Also, for the owners that don’t have a 240v portable EVSE, they can charge faster too. A lot of hospitals near my home have this type of set-up and either are gratis or $0.12 - $0.14/kWh which covers the cost of electricity and makes recharge available AND reliable.
I used nothing but the included EVSE at L1 for the first few months I had my Bolt. With my modest commute I only needed to charge once per week (though it did take most of the weekend) I could have kept going like that indefinitely but I did end up installing an L2 EVSE so I had the option of charging faster. I do think that L1 charging still makes sense in places where people work, or definitely at airport parking. What plug-in (non-hardwired) EVSEs allow you to charge at higher than 40A? As an aside, you know that this is a medical facility because all those outlets are installed upside-down. ;)
Yeah, L1 AC certainly still has a place. Now that you mention it, I'm not sure of any mobile connectors that allow more than 32 A, but some wall connectors are wired with NEMA 14-50. I actually took my 40 A Juice Box with me on a trip once in case I needed to use a campground in my Bolt EV, and now that I'm thinking about it more, it must have been those wall units that were tripping the circuits. I'll need to be more clear about that in the future.
@@newscoulomb3705 I've never heard of an EVSE with a factory installed 14-50 plug that allowed for more than 40A charging. In theory you could have a 48A EVSE with a NEMA 14-60 plug I'm not aware of any of those that exist either. Also could be a 14-50 Outlet with a less than 50A circuit behind it. When I installed my EVSE outlets I was only able to pull a 40A circuit to my detached garage (more would have increased the cost by thousands of dollars), so I'm limited to 32A _total_ for EV charging purposes even though I have two 14-50 outlets. If someone who doesn't know this just plugged in a 40A EVSE to one of my outlets would end up tripping the breaker (after a while).
@@raitchison Hmm, I could be mixing up the 32/40 A versions with the 48 A versions, but yes, I think you're right that some of it has to do with the total power for the circuit at the RV park.
There's a park and ride near me that offers 120V AC charging, but I've been chicken to use it, even though it's free, purely out of fear of getting my EVSE stolen. The irony of this particular park and ride is that they actually have DC fast chargers set up there for buses, but the general public doesn't even get level 2 and has to make do with a level 1 wall socket.
That sucks. I've seen some pretty interesting ways to secure EVSEs, but the truth is, they should just provide a lock box. Maybe they're worried about people leaving their locks behind, but they shouldn't be. Just have facilities swing by with bolt cutters every now and then.
I think Airports are the perfect place for level 1 charging. In Milwaukee they have a bank of level 2 and I have yet to get there and see a vehicle actually charging, they are all topped up and sitting there with the plug locked in the car. They could put in 30 120vac evse and 10 240v level 2 and that would be great for long term parkers.
First, I hope things improve for your family member. I will keep them in my prayers. Second, What would you say is the site score for this facility? (LOL)
Hope your family member is successful with their treatment.
My girlfriend has been exclusively utilizing level 1 charging for the Bolt and it’s more than adequate for her day to day driving. Fun to see that neighborhood application!
Thanks, Bruce!
Best wishes to you and your family, Eric. Thank you for bringing us this one and hope everything takes a turn for the better.
Thanks, Steve!
Love your channel. Your insights and opinions encouraged me to buy a 2023 bolt euv. Just past 3k miles, loving it. Saddened to hear the cancer news. Will keep you and your family in our thoughts.
Thank you!
6:30 I mean... To a large extent, yes a 40 amp EVSE draw on a 50 amp rated circuit is a lot, but using an RV park as a measure of how well it can be handled in the wild is... The only thing LESS reliably wired than an average RV power pole is probably an average marina power pole, which has the same problems of long distances, "expense aware" management (in general, there are good ones), and adds the complications of a wet environment (often with salt water) and moves with the tides too.
The big problem that I see is that there will need to be some engineering done to make 14-50 receptacles that can actually take a lot of plugging. Even though they look beefy from the outside, they're really expected to only have a life of a small hundreds of insertions, because things like ranges and dryers get plugged in once, stay plugged in, and then get removed when the equipment is replaced after a decade or two. And speccing up the receptacles means it's going to take even more physical effort and risk arcing when people inevitably don't follow proper power-down process like removing the car plug first.
Honestly, keeping it at level 1 seems like a great way to provide for crisis, but limit the amount of abuse and hogging that might otherwise obtain. Few people are going to charge there for distance. They're going to charge there because they arrived too low to get to some faster charging place, and they need ten miles to get to a DCFC when they're going home. Even someone commuting isn't probably going to charge there *every* day when they've got a 24 amp Level 2 at home.
Great points. I used to think the average plug cycle life for J1772 and CCS was low, but by comparison, yes, the NEMA plugs are much shorter lived.
Really, when we factor in cost of both installation and power for the host, 120 V is probably the easiest way to get people a crucial service at a time when it's most useful. Also, this facility literally has hundreds of kW of overhead solar over several parking lots, so the draw from this "station" probably isn't even a blip on their power bill.
@@newscoulomb3705 whereas just building that station, with the trenched power, custom enclosure, signs, labor, design work and permitting probably cost $20k. ;)
@@hellsop Hopefully not. At least not in 2015 dollars. 😱
Another gr8 review as usual. I got an update on my Bolt EV order. I saw my salesman on Saturday. He made a mistake when he told me my Bolt order was canceled. He says if it's not fulfilled by the end of August then it will be canceled. Apparently I'm back in the game. Anyway, he had a 2020 Bolt EV on the lot and I test drove it. I've never driven an EV before and I was blown away. About a week ago I was at Carmax and I was ready to buy a 2013 mercedes-benz C250 sport. It was in immaculate condition. I'm so glad I didn't pull the trigger. Keep up the gr8 reviews. 🚙 🇺🇸 🔌
Thanks! Good luck getting you're Bolt EV!
Sending healing thoughts to you and family
Thanks!
Sending positive thoughts to you and your family. Our family is going through this also, take care.
Thank you, Barbara! I'm so sorry to hear that your family is also dealing with this. I'm hoping everything goes well.
Definitely took advantage of Level 1 charging back in 2018 and 2019 with my Chevy Bolt. Used to charge at work in light poles with 120v outlets before they installed L2 units. Also at home as I didn’t bother with installing a 240v outlet. I recall one road trip to the mountains where I stayed in a cabin and ran my EVSE out the window of the cabin to my car as I was there two nights, I was all topped up when I returned home.
I've often thought a 120v outlet at every light pole in the Larkspur (Calif) Ferry station parking lot would be super helpful for charing while parked there all day.
6:45 Some EVs can charge at more than 12 amps on 120 volt service. E-GMP cars like the Ioniq 5 and EV6 can pull a max of 16 amps on 120 V which is almost 2 kW. Teslas are famous for having no 120 V limitation, so they can use the full 24 amps a NEMA TT-30 120 volt RV outlet can provide.
7:40 If a business is going through all this effort to run power and install an electrical pedestal in the parking lot, then they should really just go all the way and install a regular 240 volt AC J1772 charger. It would offer them more power management than just installing wall outlets and would be far more useful to EV drivers. Installing outlets of any kind is far less robust and more prone to failure compared to just a regular J1772 charger. Also, not every EV driver carries a portable EVSE with them all the time. Most people with new EVs today that are less efficient and have bigger batteries wouldn't even consider using 120 V unless it's for multiple days at home. Even 6 kW AC charging is becoming bare bones for most EVs today.
Hope you're doing well!
Thanks! I think this site was put in nearly six years ago, so I don't think they anticipated the level of use they are seeing today. It's interesting that the E-GMP cars can pull 16 A on 120 V. I guess I didn't realize that. Hopefully, it's a setting. I think GM is smart to still default to 8 A on 120 V. That seems the safest option.
I use my portable EVSE at home since I don’t have level 2 charging in my rental home. I’ve gotten out of the habit of taking the EVSE with me unless I’m going on a longer trip that will require charging. That said I would definitely appreciate businesses that make electrical outlets available
Nice review. Level 1 is more useful than most people think, and certainly better than nothing. You can add 40 miles of range or more overnight at 12 amps, and even at 8 it can be helpful. It's also cheaper to install than level 2. There are good use cases for it. I'd still prefer a mix of level 1 and 2 so people have a choice, though, same as I prefer a level 2 for a backup and alternative at DCFC sites. It just makes sense.
Definitely. I keep coming back to the idea that, with 8 A limits set, this single post could be charging 8 EVs simultaneously (slower, but better for long-term parking).
For a site to go to 240v, they’d likely end up doing ChargePoint with 6.6 kWh per unit split between 2 plugs. More effective than 110v and de-risks overrunning lines. Also, for the owners that don’t have a 240v portable EVSE, they can charge faster too. A lot of hospitals near my home have this type of set-up and either are gratis or $0.12 - $0.14/kWh which covers the cost of electricity and makes recharge available AND reliable.
I used nothing but the included EVSE at L1 for the first few months I had my Bolt. With my modest commute I only needed to charge once per week (though it did take most of the weekend)
I could have kept going like that indefinitely but I did end up installing an L2 EVSE so I had the option of charging faster.
I do think that L1 charging still makes sense in places where people work, or definitely at airport parking.
What plug-in (non-hardwired) EVSEs allow you to charge at higher than 40A?
As an aside, you know that this is a medical facility because all those outlets are installed upside-down. ;)
Yeah, L1 AC certainly still has a place. Now that you mention it, I'm not sure of any mobile connectors that allow more than 32 A, but some wall connectors are wired with NEMA 14-50. I actually took my 40 A Juice Box with me on a trip once in case I needed to use a campground in my Bolt EV, and now that I'm thinking about it more, it must have been those wall units that were tripping the circuits. I'll need to be more clear about that in the future.
@@newscoulomb3705 I've never heard of an EVSE with a factory installed 14-50 plug that allowed for more than 40A charging. In theory you could have a 48A EVSE with a NEMA 14-60 plug I'm not aware of any of those that exist either.
Also could be a 14-50 Outlet with a less than 50A circuit behind it. When I installed my EVSE outlets I was only able to pull a 40A circuit to my detached garage (more would have increased the cost by thousands of dollars), so I'm limited to 32A _total_ for EV charging purposes even though I have two 14-50 outlets. If someone who doesn't know this just plugged in a 40A EVSE to one of my outlets would end up tripping the breaker (after a while).
@@raitchison Hmm, I could be mixing up the 32/40 A versions with the 48 A versions, but yes, I think you're right that some of it has to do with the total power for the circuit at the RV park.
There's a park and ride near me that offers 120V AC charging, but I've been chicken to use it, even though it's free, purely out of fear of getting my EVSE stolen.
The irony of this particular park and ride is that they actually have DC fast chargers set up there for buses, but the general public doesn't even get level 2 and has to make do with a level 1 wall socket.
That sucks. I've seen some pretty interesting ways to secure EVSEs, but the truth is, they should just provide a lock box. Maybe they're worried about people leaving their locks behind, but they shouldn't be. Just have facilities swing by with bolt cutters every now and then.
I would like to hear your views on the GM/Tesla announcement. Wow, a month ago, I would not have expected this seismic change of events.
I think Airports are the perfect place for level 1 charging. In Milwaukee they have a bank of level 2 and I have yet to get there and see a vehicle actually charging, they are all topped up and sitting there with the plug locked in the car. They could put in 30 120vac evse and 10 240v level 2 and that would be great for long term parkers.
First, I hope things improve for your family member. I will keep them in my prayers.
Second, What would you say is the site score for this facility? (LOL)
Thank you! And this is definitely an A+ site! 😀
I kept a lock with mine to lock my EVSE, with Tesla its locked in, they can steal the plug in part but that is it.
GM to add NACS charging to all vehicles and eliminate the CCS clumsy plug. It's about time.
we need level 1 charging everywhere.
Level 1 has 30% charging losses.
I don't think it's quite that high. It should be about double the losses of 240 V, which is between 8% and 12%, typically.
@@newscoulomb3705 nope it is exactly that much.
Where would the 30% loss be going?
@@mikehedrick6544 heat
@@homomorphic that’s a lot of loss