Now this is the type of content we’d like to see on our TV screens. Highly informative and thought provoking. Podcasts in South Africa are slowly becoming our gateway to openly address multiple social ills. I think the more quality content we consume , the healthier the conversations we’ll have in our homes and societies at large in attempts to facilitate change. 💕 S/o to The Penuel Show💯
I liked the beginning and Mandisa is so very informed but I couldn’t finish because the host has no respect for women we can debate whilst still being respectful. You assessments are typical target talk by men and stubborn to learn. Mandisa was gracious to even school you and still missed an opportunity to learn. I wanted to hear more from her but Panuel 🤮🤮
In the future i see "them" crippling content creator legs to walk the talk since it will go against their agenda to polarize humanity until then lets walk the talk
@@mmasechabasegage6923 o bua nywana. I doubt we were looking at the same session. When you agree with it, she's informed. There is nothing that Panuel said that was slightly disrespectful. You are looking for echo chambers
@@mmasechabasegage6923 i don't think this was meant to be an interview of Mandisa but two well informed individuals having a constructive conversation. i did not get the feel that Pen doesnt respect women, in the risk of sounding like im defending Penual to you but he's not the one who called the other person childish and wouldn't allow them to speak when they way sharing their views. I don't think this is a man against women fight, but rather good people against bad people. Penuel raised a point about how a lot of kids are killed with women involved in some shape or form, Mandisa went defensive and asked for numbers, as if the numbers changes the facts somewhat. Lets not get emotional and pick sides, as soon as you say "Them" and "You Men" in such conversations, it becomes a Men vs Women thing. You can't expect all men to take responsibility for what some men choose to do, same way you can expect all women to take responsibility for what other women get up to. I don't think you would allow anything bad to happen to your children in your watch but yet we've seen and continue to see women and men giving small kids hubbly and alcohol for what ever reasons i cant comprehend myself.
Penuels ability to calm down and listen is a highly underrated skill, uMamMandisa has an alarming number of eye opening things that she has to say but they are musked by bad communication habits
@Wandile Hlapi Have you thought that perhaps Mandisa is very emotional because she has seen the devastating effects of GBV and rape, and the harmful effects these abuse has on the family and society,? Have you stopped to consider that maybe her tone comes from a place of pain and not ego? Mandisa is a sweet person. Her father abandoned the family leaving the mother to raise them, yet in his old age, he has moved in with her, she is the one who looks after him. Mandisa is urging men to step forward, and take responsibility, because she knows men prefer to listen to other men. Facts. I'm telling you if this was another man having this conversation with Penuel, I highly doubt if he would received the criticism that Mandisa has faced!
@@lekis5975 I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense, I also think her emotions will make a lot of people miss her facts because she herself is invalidating and misinterpreting what Panel is saying. I think if your intentions are to address men then you should speak in a language that men understand and the fact is the moment a discussion like this becomes emotional there are men that switch off. It's like changing to a foreign language mid-discussion and expecting a person to keep up with you.
But Penuel as well was contributing to her frustrations. Not by disaggreeing with her points but over controlling the pacing of the conversation . Proper discourse even when heated is possible . Both parties could’ve done better
Always funny seeing black people fighting each other instead of addressing the elephant in the room, which is: The Wealth inequality in SA: -South Africa has a population of 59.39 million people and off that 59.39m, 81% are black people, 9% are coloureds, 8% are white and 3% are Indian. White people, whom only account for 8% of the population, hold 80% of the wealth, leaving 93% of the population with with a measly 20%, making it the most unequal country in the world, with race playing a determining factor; Meaning 8/10, a black child is going to be born and brought up in poverty and studies have shown that poverty is the mother of all socio-economic issues. hence why it seems as if black people are barbaric which is not true, whatsoever. The solution is blatantly obvious, but because black people are too scared of addressing they real problem, they’ll just keep blaming each other.
@@L0rdstormpeople need to be aware of their emotions and how they are dangerous to the public(viewers). Penuel is not a perfect moderator but Mandisa went out of her way to misinterpret what Pen was saying. I could careless if Mandisa was insulting Pen because that’s a low blow that’s always gonna come from emotional people but do not enter a public platform as an “activist” and come with clouded listening skill levels and worst misinterpret someone else.
Penuel did good by standing his ground because as much as usis Mandisa is raising important points she enforces things on Penuel and is the one being emotional. I will protect women and will call out brothers who think it is right to abuse women in all the ways one can think of but I can never take responsibility for an act I have never committed nor think of committing. Otherwise great conversations. I thank you brother Pen for bringing such a great mind.🙏🏾🙌🏾❤️Much love to uSis Mandisa🙏🏾❤️
Big up💪 Mandy u represent the voice less,and i like the fact that u can contain urself to put across what u are standing for,if there were good ones they would listen to u with empathy because they also have sisters they should be worrying about,the ego is like leprosy as u would observe it.Viva Mandy they can't stand u
@@fezekagertrudegysman-chiny6650 good point but she is too toxic. you cant be in an educational discussion and you don't want to listen, you putting words in somebody's mouth or over exaggerating points.
44:27- Men do not engage women on such arguments because most women tend to be emotional and also want to impose their ideas on men. A very informative engagement. Big ups to both of yall. The show has gained a new subscriber 🙌
@maxwellmabuza1988 She's totally and absolutely right but only a certain level of intelligence and unbiased, unemotional individuals will get her message.
So iemotional conversation, it makes you realize how much both genders in South Africa do not understand each other in reality, theres' more to learn and learn as men and women in order to build a beautiful future for our generations to come.
Both genders want to be right all the time. None wants to listen to the other. You can tell how Mandisa just wants the guy to agree to everything she says.
@maxwell mabuza you can never win in a group of women bro. What I commented on is proved by what you just said. Nna I avoid such discussions these days...for my own mental state
@maxwell mabuza only few ladies who understand the future of our country if we still allow such ladies with less understanding because they can speak good English we think they know something mean while they know nothing they a childish this Mandisa lady is toxic
15 minutes in and I just couldn’t take it anymore,I applaud you my brother for keeping your cool. I cannot have a conversation with someone who is not willing to listen me but expect me to listen to him/her. The lady was not having a conversation,she was on fight mode and went In with emotions rather that being logical.
I was also so shocked I had to come to the comments to see if it's just me. I've watched her episode last time and she was great to watch. Today it was war and very condescending. I wouldn't have lasted even if I was on her own platform. Hopefully she re-watches and sees she missed a golden opportunity to spit bars to open ears cos many won't finish this episode. Mutual respect can still be had in tough debate
@@Tom_34321 We do love and appreciate Mandisa's truth and intelligent. She works hard to serve other people. However is her attitude that destroys her when communicating with the other gender.
It seems every time when women spit facts its then identified as being emotional. Shes mentioning statistics what happening today then shows you how it can be solved. where are emotions here?
It's my first time listening to Sisi Mandisa, and I love her already! Thanks to both of you, Penuel! 🔥 Very thought-provoking, emotionally-charged, fact-supported conversation and it's much needed! Can't wait for more episodes.
For me it would be more beneficial if more statistical facts were drawn to prove a point but for me it was more of i am right and you are wrong kind of conversation.
Thanks Penuel for this platform, this is what we need in as far as robust engagements should be not look like, I appreciate the honesty and differences in the stating of facts. The fact that the conversation keeps going much respect is given, at some point I thought Mandisa was going to workout of this conversation.
Mandisa has such a beautiful smile! I absolutely love how they are able to provocatively fight and then find common ground again. Kudos to Penuel and the team for the amazing platform, of course!
Hats off to Penuel for calming down and redirecting the energy in the room to focus on the point again. Excuse my rant but I feel just as strongly about these issues, we need to do better collectively...
I fckn love how raw this podcast is, and it's a pity because SA is such a emotional type of society that won't get this, our country is too soft not able to engage in real raw conversations like these.... Well done ma bru and the big brain 🧠 lady Mashego
The problem with two people arguing a point to win is, you don't get anywhere. Mandisa speaks from a special victim perspective which makes it difficult to hear her.
@maxwell mabuza Even if she was right speaking alone in a conversation makes you a fanatic. And most fans are irrational and emotional. For someone speaking for equality, she's the polar opposite of what she says she's fighting for.
@maxwell mabuza I am with you on this one Max. Mandisa is giving a lecture when it should be a convo with each getting insights from another, instead she's speaking to Penuel like her naughty child, simply because she's a male. A lot of what she says gets lost in the as women we are better than you aggressive tone which can only get short circuited responses.
People with public platforms need to stop being passive just because they have an important world renowned guest they invited, they need to control the flow of the conversation at all times.
I can listen to u sis Mandisa speak anytime she is indeed a walking library full of knowledge. Mfoka Mlotshwa you are a good host. Please continue to challenge people you're hosting just like you did from episode 1🙌🏿🙌🏿
I listen to Mandisa on the Hustlers Corner and this trait of her never shows out because there she's the only one talking here I was about to be thrown off this conversation but I was kept by how Pen contained the situation and how he stood for his points. Big up Black Pen
Dr Sbu is built differently from Penuel, he lets things go too far and doesn’t have any point to make in the conversation. Basically it becomes “Dj Sbu the dean of the University invites Mandisa as a keynote speaker” while on Penuel’s podcast you actually get a dialogue not a monologue.
@@ThabangTM Should he not be an intelligent man, as according to your barometer of intelligence, we must nonetheless applaud his summoning of studied intellectuals, professors and the likes of smarts to debunk fallacies.
I understand Mr Penuel, I can't take responsibility for someone elses actions but I can take responsibility in my actions and my impact on the world. I cannot take responsibility for someone else's mistake but I can take responsibility in helping to fix what is broken. I do not want to be judged based on someone elses actions, and I am sure you also don't want to be judged by someone else's actions.
@Tiang Mokori Men are ego driven creatures. They much prefer to listen to other men than to listen to women. All Sis Mandisa is saying is that men should step forward and lead this battle of GBV and RAPE because men are more likely to listen when a fellow man pulls them up. If it was Malema who had said the same things, using the same tone, none would have judged him, in fact most men deriding Sis Mandisa, would have called him passionate, not emotional. You are not being judged, you are being asked to go and speak to your brethren and see if you can see how men can stop perpetrating GBV and RAPE. Go and talk amongst yourselves, advise each other, counsel each other, encourage each other without "a feminazi" upsetting you.
Lovely show God Penuel, Thank you Dr Mandisa, you are voice for women, Thank you for robustly debating Penuel, thank you for the proposed solutions as well, I will be starting my veggie garden in my yard.😊💗
Props to this women for gripping penuel like this. She was right to push him to take back his "2%" statement tho, and just the way she did it so tenderly i really felt the care for him.
I totally understand where sis Mandisa is coming from. As a man I hate what women in our have to go through. It does not matter that not all men rape, the statistics of rape and other crimes can't be tolerated. We have failed on our responsibility to protect women and children. Let's reflect, find solutions and stop shouting at each other. Let's not defend we have to find the root.
Be careful with your superman attitude. You will lose your life uselessly. Start at home 🏡. Protect your immediate own. Be very cautious with your superman attitude, you'll die for the wrong one
🎧 Great production and content you got Pen! Please fix sound, I'm on earphones and the left ear is way louder than the right. Or if it's my earphones, let's hear from others??
I listened with my earphones: no issues if both right and left are inserted into the ears. If only 1 ear is inserted, there is an audible sound discrepancy.
SA’s an emotionally charged environment so I don’t see this having early mass adopters because I don’t think we (South Africans) are adequately (from a wholesale p.o.v.) equipped with having idealistic conversations that don’t bleed into the emotional space. This was obviously a sensitive conversation that somewhat places it on a back foot even before it’s taken place because of the relationship SA has with violence & how familiar we are with its outcomes. For one to appreciate both perspectives, one has to prefect themselves not to end up being emotional but it’s still a conversation about violence (oppression) which won’t exist without emotions. Tough balancing act. I’ll definitely have to watch this again to fully appreciate each one’s arguments as ideas then weighing that against real life outcomes before selectively absorbing (if need be) the content. Appreciate the raw & robust nature of the interaction. Bangene ket!👊🏾
I wont lie I enjoy listening to this lady dig herself into a never ending ditch of narcissistic tendencies and feministic biases...completely distroying her own credibility in terms of her misplaced hatred for men and how clouded her judgement is cause of that, But in the same breath i love how smart she is ill definately give her that.
@The Revival TV Well said. I have counted FOUR men so far who get her. The rest are just spewing poison it's shocking. I am worried for the South African woman.
Mandisa is a very intelligent woman, we love her, our sisters should aspire to be as intelligent and strong but she needed to listen to Pen’s reasoning for not wanting to take collective responsibility. The conversation could have given us more, Pen please do a separate video explaining why you don’t support the idea of collective accountability.
@Sipho Godfrey Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel in particular, instead Penuel decided to take things personally. It's like trying to speak to a white person about racism and she/he starts shouting that they are not racist or their ancestors did not own slaves. WTF? There is a serious problem with GBV and rape in South Africa and men need to speak to other men to stop this nonsense. A woman can only raise a boy upto a certain point, South African men are behaving badly because they are being raised in homes where men are absent or irresponsible. Penuel decided to triangulate by trotting out arguments hinging on "what about white men!, what about the fact that women are killing children". Indeed those issues are of concern, however they should not be used to rebut arguments pertaining to GBV. Even Mandisa readily admitted, that she his willing to take responsibility for the wrongs that have been committed by other women.
@@nhloniphoingqwele5433 Because it’s done by men and you protect other men and claim to be “good men”. Nina “good men” what are you doing about this phenomenal other than “it’s not all of us, we good men”. You need to take accountability
Moer love the production Pen... This is solid. Sensing some Rogan vibes. Great conversation. This podcast can be big. However uMandisa is emotional and neglecting reality.
To be honest, if this woman can calmly put her point across I as a man can listen to her. Speak to us not at us. Penuel my man I hear your argument, as men let's just push to be better and let's just do our best. Thanks for this discussion
Penuel understands her points. She’s actually the one not understanding/hearing Penuel. 😂how do you assume each murder is committed by a new person? She’s a smart woman but even my 16 year old brother can out debate her regarding gender issues.
zibambene ngezihluthu la, but I'm glad Penuel stood his ground even though Mandisa had great points. Please bring her back, we need her as a regular on the show coz she's just a good powerhouse.
We as good men need to take collective responsibility. We can not rely on our own mothers and sisters to continue fighting for themselves as the states show that their are losing terribly. I am disappointed on men who take the stance like Pens, because all they are doing is isolating themselves from the solution. What is the need of been standby “supporters”, what kind of men are you than, since you are “Good Men.” This is a great platform though
If I can, I'd like to advise on the sound. I have done extensive research on the Podmic, and have learnt that to get the best quality out of it, the subject(s) should be very close to the mic. Again, your studio isn't acoustically treated, you'll have to reduce the low and top-end highs on your EQ. If you can, try to at least add a rug to the room that will help to absorb sound and reduce feedback.
As a doctor who has worked in the emergency room and has treated victims of rape, has had to clinically assess them and prove the rape, I can say that it is NOT ALWAYS easy proving rape. Be it, a rape that just occured or occured a few days prior to it being reported..
Thank you for sharing your experiences. We need to have a very difficult conversation about rape, how to avoid it, how to report it correctly, how to stop false accusations, how to raise boys & men who won't rape, dealing with the police, etc.
but here is a woman saying that Penuel is defending rape by saying the exact words as you and what i like about you is that you are talking from experience.
You know, i have come the conclusion that it is difficult to have a constructive conversation with women. You always allow your emotions to suppress your logic. I mean, its not rocket science how difficult a task is to prove rape but because of her emotional rant, she said otherwise
@@sbongamandlamwelase7559 it doesn’t sound like you and sis Mandisa are any different then. Because you come with that generalised conclusion that women are emotional and lack logic, the same way she is generalising her viewpoints against all men. What gives you the right to generalise about your experiences with women when, according to you, she’s not allowed to generalise her experiences with men?
It might have been a cringe fest, but I still thoroughly enjoyed the raw honesty. This is the kind of content I signed up for, unscripted messy with teachable moments right or wrong.
This is the best podcast i have ever watched. you guys (the 2 of you are very great) and have information. I could not disagree with anyone of you. you guys are correct, we just have to understand where your debate is coming from.
Mandisa clearly has something to say but her message isn't hitting for me. Personally I will never take collective responsibility for rapists and murderers because if I come out and say "I'm part of the problem" then I'm giving the actual rapists and murderers a group to shield them and hide behind this so called collectiveresponsibilit. People should be individually called out and grouped and then we can say "these are the monsters." Another thing I notice is that she's calling for collective responsibility but she doesn't elaborate on what exactly is this responsibility I have to take because if she's so convinced that it works then it must be something I need to hear out, but so far she's saying nothing about what is this collective responsibility.
Women dnt take a fall for women who do wrong things infact when a woman is found guilty of anything only then we think about the reasons and justifications yet men are considered evil for no reason (its their DNA clearly) ..I am sorry as much as I am woman and all for women empowerment I cnt raise my hand and be a part of toxicity that is well planned by the western society to create a mess and confusing in Africa..if we are going to conquer we need to have genuine conversations, we need to begin by understanding how we got here.How we ignored who we are and defined ourselves throught the eyes of the Western system I will never understand..We can not raise a boy child and then later that same boy becomes enemy number 1, unless he is part of the Queer community ( ps: No homo). Males and females have contributed to this mess knowingly and unknowingly..we cannot hold one Gender accountable..unless we want to complain just for the sake of staying in our victimhood(women) then we on the right direction Viva Mbokodo
@@pamelamdluli8359 perhaps the agenda now is telling black women that black men and black women cannot coexist in an equally important role in a society. That is to say that the black man is on top of the black women, and if black women want to reclaim their dignity they would have to defeat black men and go on top of the food chain themselves. It is made to look like we cannot hold the same ground as black people, men and women, and work together for the betterment of our children. That is the threat: Black men and black women raising kids in a mutually respectful environment with family values and proper support structures.
I just love her struggle she's a woman for women and she's dedicated her life for that struggle. And as soon as men or "good men" realise collective responsibility as men is important maybe one day men might listen without being individually defensive.
@ Eugene where were the men when those single women raising those men alone. MIA. Why should women be held responsible for raising children alone when they're not supposed to in the first place. Maybe if they had fathers around they would have a better outcome. The real problem is absent fathers. What happens to boys that are raised by both parents or have present fathers? "Good and responsible men" are needed in society to be active participants in constructive struggles including fighting for women n children and taking a stand against bad men that are destroying our society. In short if ur a good man stand n fight for something Ur needed.
@@celebratecreativity7451 Well said Celebrate creativity. The calibre of comments here are very disturbing. I've read all the comments in this thread and I am disturbed by the comments. South Africa is full of men who hate women. Penuel is not equipped to be discussing such matters. Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel in particular, instead Penuel decided to take things personally. It's like trying to speak to a white person about racism and she/he starts shouting that they are not racist or their ancestors did not own racism. WTF? There is a serious problem with GBV and rape in South Africa and men need to speak to other men to stop this nonsense. A woman can only raise a boy upto a certain point, South African men are behaving badly because they are being raised in homes where men are absent or irresponsible.
@@eugenehlabangwane4183 Penuel was the problem, not Mandisa. Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel in particular, instead Penuel decided to take things personally. It's like trying to speak to a white person about racism and she/he starts shouting that they are not racist or their ancestors did not own racism. WTF? There is a serious problem with GBV and rape in South Africa and men need to speak to other men to stop this nonsense. A woman can only raise a boy upto a certain point, South African men are behaving badly because they are being raised in homes where men are absent or irresponsible. As @Celebrity creativity rightly asked, where are the fathers? A woman can only raise a man up to a certain point, that is why in the traditional african society, when boys reached a certain age, they were put under the tutelage of their men, it is men used to oversea the circumcision process. South African men are acting crazy because they do not have male role models, ,their fathera are either absent or useless.
I'm loving Sis Mandisa 🔥🔥... The way our system is set up is just bad.. I know of a friend who wanted to report rape, we went to five different doctors and those doctors kept sending us up and down.. 😭😭 When Sis Mandisa spoke about rape it opened up that wound.. 💔💔
I think Mma Mashego should listen to another person's opinion. It's difficult for audience to listen to her because she doesn't want to engage. The purpose of the podcast is to share knowledge where both parties engage and correct one another.
This conversation is very important to the African communities. But!!! Here is my stake: 1, you are both right. Everything you both are saying is right. 2. Madam, you need to learn to listen. You spoke soo long and when he started to speak, you spoke him through although you had to listen and give him a chance to speak. 3. He has a very big point about women not listening to men. In our community our men are really not heard. Men are also injured just like women. Bad men are few but good men are a lot. 3 the only way to solve madam's point of view is to listen to men's problem emotional injuries and heal the good men first. Once they are healed they will be our strong back bone and they will help us fight off the bad men. We need the good men to fight off the bad men and we have to start by empowering man emotionally but mostly, women we need to listen to men's issues as they also have mentally, financially, emotionally and spiritually problems. Madam, you are an example of women not allowing themselves to listen to what good men are trying to say. We need dialogue and conversations and not arguments. We need to listen to each other to solve the problems, PLEASE!!!
She lost the plot. This is the issue with self-righteous feminism and not wanting to have an intellectually HONEST conversation to SOLVE A PROBLEM , rather than using a problem as an excuse for man-bashing. SA women are responsible for 72% of the murders of young children. The child murder rate is 10x higher than some countries of similar size. Irony is she talks of being defensive yet as soon as this reality is mentioned look at how defensive she gets, even arguing about population exploding meaning children can't be being killed by women. By that logic, wouldn't that mean that men couldn't have done it either when you thought it was men? (Also, by the way, she later says "the population in Scandinavia is in decline, not Africa". Notice how she said Africa, not South Africa,...because she probably knows South Africa only has a fertility rate of 2.3 barely above population replacement rate of 2.1. So she must have known population "explosion" was a disingenuous argument for SA either way, apart from the fact that it has NOTHING to do with whether children are being killed or not.) At issue was that if ALL men must take responsibility, then so must ALL women. South African children are under siege by black women. Why would you kill someone who cannot defend themselves? But she minimises the problem. Also SA black women mutilate & brain-damage their own kids drinking & smoking while pregnant. In the rest of the world 1.5% fetal alcohol syndrome is considered a crisis. In SA in some communities it is as high as 30%. South African children are under siege from black women. So SA black women must take responsibility. She also lost the plot on the assumption that the number of rape offenders should be assumed to be different people e.g. that 11 000 rapes will equals 11 000 distinct rapists. SA has always had some of the highest number of caught & uncaught REPEAT criminal offenders of violent crimes. e.g in some areas over 90% of the crimes are known to be by repeat offenders. And the rate of recidivism in South Africa is one of the highest globally, which means convicted criminals are more likely to be involved in crime than the general population. *It was estimated that roughly 30 000 people are most responsible for the bulk of SA's repeat violent crime.* And we all know the elephant in the room: People are overwhelmingly the product of their upbringing & the broader morals instilled in them, with only some deviation. It's why in pretty much every serial killer/rapist's background is massive physical, sexual & psychological abuse as a child. To get the absurd level of amoral behaviour we have in SA, the morals of the people who raised people must be atrociously low beyond belief. And we know who the majority of black children get raised by.... women.
You last paragraph 😂you blame women for the violence in society and don’t take a second to ask yourself where are the men?? Penuel has 5 kids and not a full time parent to any of them and you still have the nerve to blame women 😭😭I can’t!
@@mmasechabasegage6923 See. In denial! Proving my point. No sense of self-awareness. Precisely what I responded to originally, but we can go around in circles if you like: Day in day out you see a house with a mature woman with 2 adult daughters from 2 different fathers. Daughter 1: 4 babies, 4 different fathers. Daughter 2: 2 babies, 2 different fathers.(Another on the way from a 3rd father) But then "wannabe western SA feminists" will pretend that what happened with single SA mothers was a married woman's deadbeat husband went out to buy a pack of cigarettes one evening & never came back. NO, these women engage in multiple, often random transactional promiscuity. This is the result. The difference in the countries where single motherhood is not such a major problem is the behaviour of the women (the person with the womb) actually, not so much difference in the behaviour of men. And OBVIOUSLY there are behaviours among both sexes that need addressing. 60% of SA women are estimated to be in "transactional relationships". The random men these women had transactional sex with often don't even know they have a baby. (And general moral deviation at SA levels is caused by the moral upbringing by people you HAD, not by who you DIDN'T have. So the poor general morality is instilled by those that ARE there, which tells us who THEY are, not who people who are absent are.) The same women willing to drink and smoke while pregnant at rates unheard of in other places, creating brain damage & behavioural problems, are NOT miraculously virtuous in other domains of later parenting & morality. This is the result. So stop living in denial. But you can't...indeed.
@@agrid2608 indeed bro. The likelihood of a good man spontaneously leaving his child is almost nonexistent. A majority of those women make mistakes when they are young, and reproduce with terrible bad men. They exercise their democratic right by dumping the bad men, but the children are already born. So the real cause of them being single mothers was them making poor choices when they were young. They chose the bad men, and some bad man don't mind not being part of the upbringing of the children - so is Mandisa saying we should force these men to force these women to stay with them.
This lady's arguments are just mindblowing. She's arguing without really thinking what she's saying. She says its scientific for us to assume that crimes (rape, assault) when commited we assume that the perpetrators or criminals are non repeaters.😂😂.
That was a very careless statement from Mandisa. SAPS have confirmed that these serious crimes like rape and murder have a lot of repeat offenders. It's never one offender for one victim. Look at the recent cases of rape in West Rand by the Zama zamas.
Biggest load of garbage but then again feminists and their woke thugs will dig in their heels when it comes to regurgitating their nonsense. If you dare offer alternative views let alone debunk their propaganda it's because you are a ' denialist " and suffer from hatred of women. I was under their wrath daily when on Twitter until I left the platform in October 2019.
But if you had listened to her, she’s basing that on the fact that the majority of these crimes are not reported for whatever reason, therefore let’s just assume the reported are not repeaters
I love and respect Mandisa mara Aai Kona. she is being emotional. she can't have a proper conversation without being emotional and accusing Penuel of misogyny etc. Sadly Penuel fell for her trap and became emotional as well.
Great spirited and passionate conversation. Food for thought: Weren't all these criminal men though raised by women? Why should I, as a non-criminal man, take collective responsibility for what these men do, when women as a group have far more influence over boys developing into such men in the first place?
@Daniel Boyles A woman can only raise her son up to a certain point.70% of South African households are headed by WOMEN. Where are the men who are supposed to raise these men? There is a reason why the circumcision (right of passage to manhood ) is supervised by men.
@Daniel Boyles Your argument is the same argumetn trotted out by white people every time the topic of racism rears it's head...mara I am not racist, mara my ancestors didn't own slaves. Fact is Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel or you in particular. She was trying to say, men need to come on board and champion this fight against GBV and rape. Simple. It is disingenuous of you to try and palm off male pathology on mothers. Women cannot raise sons on their own. In indigenous societies, once boys reached a certain age, they went into the care of their fathers. They were taught to hunt, fish, herd cattle, fight, the rites of manhood were supervised by men. Nowadays, boys are sent off to school and left to their own devices, little wonder they are running wild and grow into irresponsible adults. 70% of children in South Africa are raised by single mothers. Where are the fathers?
Has society even asked the fathers where they are or has it chosen to silence all male voices and villainise them instead? Let's face it. It's far easier to blame men for the world's problems than it is to come up with real solutions because arriving at real solutions would first require an uncomfortable introspective excercise by the persons who have adopted a victim complex.
@@RaineJizzle Gaslighting at it's finest. Last time I checked it's men who prey on women asking for sex, never mind they don't have the means to start or maintain a family. In the traditional African society, men were taught to respect virginity, if you got a girl pregnant and refused to marry her you would both be stoned to death. Prince Senzangakhona and Nandi had a shot gun wedding for that reason. In addition to paying lobola, upon marriage, a man was allocated land, which he then passed on to his wife. Men did not want to pay dowry and part with land for a woman they did not love, so they refrained from pressurising women for sex, thereby minimising the chances of a woman falling pregnant. Nowadays, a man will pressurise a woman, and if she doesn't comply he will dump her, and if she complies and falls pregnant...he will dump her. He may marry her, but he will stray and cause problems. And you wonder why women are angry? The vagaries of men. Colonisation destroyed our traditional way of life in many ways. Men were forced to work in mines, and the pass law imposed restrictions thus destroying familial bonds. I don't know what victimhood complex women have embraced. South African women are catching fire everyday, the lack of compassion is truly shocking.
@Dalisu Khanyile THANK YOU. I have read every single comment and I am horrified at the anti woman sentiment displayed by South African men. Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel in particular, instead Penuel decided to take things personally. It's like trying to speak to a white person about racism/reparations and she/he starts shouting that they are not racist or their ancestors did not own slaves. WTF? There is a serious problem with GBV and rape in South Africa and men need to speak to other men to stop this nonsense. A woman can only raise a boy up to a certain point, South African men are behaving badly because they are being raised in homes where men are absent or irresponsible. Penuel then started triangulating and trotting out whataboutisms...what about the fact that children are being murdered by women, what about white men and indian men. What white men and indian men are doing is should not be used to REBUT the problems in the Black community. The murder of children is a serious issue that should be discussed however it should not be used to REBUT GBV or rape. Mandisa even conceded that she would take responsibility for the actions of other women and even strive to find solutions if need be. As she rightly said, taking responsibility is not the same as going to court to admit guilt for someone else actions. Men need to step forward and take responsibility and talk to their fellow men because whatever women say can only effect change up to a certain point. If I was Mandisa I would not deal with Penuel again.
"Are you gonna bully me In this conversation?" "You can't talk down on this issue" says the person that went on and on for a full 20 minutes, I was watching the counter, soon as she gets response she responds immediately and cries wolf that she's being bullied while SHE was the one in lecture mode. Watch how when she speaks she is never interrupted but yeka she can't
Enjoyed this episode very much. Mandisa is very beautiful would never say she's almost 50. Credit to Pen for standing his some of his points and not just agreeing with her and also for engaging her and not letting her take over the conversation. So deep issues they spoke about here.
"I can finally get a chance to teach people who are gullible" How I wish we all wanted to teach each other this much. Her excitement shows she's knowledgeable.
Penuel this is amazing. Don’t agree with all your views but these are interesting angles that need to be explored. Please check on the audio though. It plays the guest only on one side of the headsets or speakers when in the car. Brilliant Bro!
Just before and after 22:57 Penuel killed it with logic and valid points… Mandisa felt that and understood it… but instead of acknowledging Pen’s points she chose to neglect everything and deviate😂😂😂 ai WOMEN WOMEN WOMEN
@BLOSE KwaQoloqolo No Peneul began waffling at that point and engaging in WHATABOUTISM. Bottom line is, the rate of GBV in South Africa is bad. The rate of crime in South Africa is BAD! Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel in particular, instead Penuel decided to take things personally. It's like trying to speak to a white person about racism and she/he starts shouting that they are not racist or their ancestors did not own racism. WTF? There is a serious problem with GBV and rape in South Africa and men need to speak to other men to stop this nonsense. A woman can only raise a boy upto a certain point, South African men are behaving badly because they are being raised in homes where men are absent or irresponsible. Penuel on the other hand stands waffling on about white men, coloured men, indian men. Stupid. First and foremost the problem is about what is going on in the BLACK community, not in the white or indian community. Penuel started waffling on about how women kill children, yes that is a problem, but it should not be raised to counter argue/rebut the issue of GBV. The way Penuel handled the interview was childish.
The more platforms we have to engage the better. In time, all these channels will have many different faces anchoring them & creating their own cultures.
@@Penuelism You should have a podcast that engages the audience ( where we call in ) I feel you missed a lot of opportunities to hold her feet to the fire Your follow-up questions did not land, u ended up allowing her to bulldoze you and not answer questions about her reasoning and logic 1 . If women are leading single parent homes, shouldn't they be held accountable for raising boys, who end up being rapists 2 the issue of welcomed and unwelcomed advances , it is only obvious after the Fact 3 Don't women use their sexuality to gain advantage in the workplace and society 4 Sex and Rape is about power, not poverty or mental health 5 The issue of No, women are known for playing hard to get, so as to protect their virtue
It's women like this who make me focus on ONLY protecting and caring for the immediate women in my life, mom, sis, wife and daughter. Protect women willing to speak positively about you. Don't let them shame for being a good man. Finish and klaar. P.s. Penuel is a patient man 😎
True brother, she's so quick to go on defensive mode, that's why I'm only protecting my mother, wife and my daughter. Call me what you want, but I cannot be condemned for something I haven't done and don't do.
@Farai Gwaze No matter how much some of you try to hide your true nature, you stay exposing yourself through your WORDS. Your post only serves to expose that you hate women, and you really don't care about the fact that women are being subjected to GBV or rape. Fact is, you live in close proximity to your sister/ mother/wife, these women you have listed, have a much higher chance of offending you, more than a woman who is a stranger. Fact. I find it hard to believe that you even protect the aforementioned women. If you did, then you know that women are PHYSICALLY more FRAGILE than men, so why would you think it okay to ignore ANY woman in a moment of distress such as GBV or rape, or be comfortable providing protection on a selective basis? For heavens sake, we are talking about GBV and rape, why are you comfortable equating GBV or rape to an imaginary offence that might be minor in comparison? Is your ego so fragile, that you need a boost ( a woman to speak positively of you) before you can deem her worthy of your protection? Why do you think it's right to argue quid pro quo (scratch my back and I'll scratch yours) in scenarios where violence is an outcome? The women in your life, operate in a wider community, yuo will not always be there to protect them, so *How would you feel if your sister/mother/daughter was attacked in front of a man, who harbours the same mentality as you, and he elected not to help her* , simply because he's already prejudged her, and decided she's not worthy of protection, because she would "never speak positively of him?" At last count, only about SEVEN men in this comment section were able to distinguish between Sis Mandisa's tone and her message. The fact that most of you are more bothered about her TONE than the fact that GBV and rape is a huge problem, speaks volumes. You are telling on yourselves and you don't even know. Fact is, Mandisa invited men to take responsibility. She is asking for men to be more vocal, to set up groups for conversations. Thing is, she is right. Most men are too fragile to listen when a woman is stating cold hard truths. You are more likely to listen if a man calls you to account, that is why she is saying men need to take responsibility. Your responses are testament to exactly why she is saying men need to take over this conversation!
@@zubenathisobhuza At the risk of repeating myself, I find it hard to believe that you protect the aforementioned women at all. No matter how much you try to hide your true nature, the truth reveals itself in deeds and your words! The truth of the matter is that you hate women. You live in close proximity to your sister/ mother/wife, they have a much higher chance of offending you, more than a woman who is a stranger. Also does that mean, if you saw a woman you don't know being attacked, you would ignore the incident, just because you don't know if she will "speak positively of you?" Why do you think it's right to argue quid pro quo; scratch my back and I'll scratch yours, in scenarios where violence is an outcome? Also, why are you comfortable equating GBV and rape to some imaginary offence that might even be minute? Secondly, since the 3 of you here think that being selective about who you protect is such a brilliant attitude, what happens when your own daughter/sister/mother/wife is attacked when you are not around, will you be comfortable knowing that other men stood aside and watched her being attacked, because they have the same mindset as you? That of only protecting women they are related to? As a man you should seek to protect ANY WOMAN because you know women are more fragile than men, not because you are more preoccupied with whether or not they will offend you. If a woman offends you, then take up the offence with her, and seek to solve your differences, but to deliberately deny any woman protection for an offence she has not even committed? Does that mean you think that if a woman has been offensive she deserves to be abused, be it GBV or rape? Your argument is very flawed. The fact that you think that offering protection on a selective basis is normal behaviour says a lot about you.
@@lekis5975 People get emotional and defensive real quick, we not fighting here. I don't know these guys but I think you are missing their point, of course if you see anyone being beaten or physically harmed, either male or female you will want to help stop the fight, and not what you are assuming they are saying. you are misquoting them just like the lady in this video is doing. I'll make an example, let's say you have money, are you going to make it your life's mission to go around and give everyone money who doesn't have money, of course not, you'll first make sure your immediate family is good, then where you can help others. and you saying you will make focus more on making sure your family is well off doesn't mean you wont care at all about all the other people of the world that you can help. I think it just means you are more willing drop anything and everything to protect and make sure your immediate loved ones are safe and well taken care off. You need to take a second and think before saying things like "you hate women" to people, that's very backwards thinking and that's a whole problem on its own.
They are indeed hard conversations. It's pointless to blame a particular gender at this point (although men could and should do more). The nature of the male is to dominate territory(at least in mammals) . That's in the dna. Now society wants to disempower him and relegate his views (like my Sister here tried to do). This, as in the modern family, means he has no voice/influence and still expected to be the solution. The femininists can't have it both ways. They either give the men (here exclusively used for the good guys - not the toxic males) a platform to bring them back into the convo for effective solutions. (That is if females are after effective solutions). Also a big factor which is the elephant in the room is the nature of females is that they are attracted to dominant /alpha males. Hence their inclination to copulate and breed with the aggressive ( mentally and physically) males. (these thugs are soo exciting!). This means on the one hand the females want men to provide and protect whilst engaging toxic males in umjolo. This is a toxic mix. The male is hard-wired to compete for female attention...historically, the elders knew this. Hence a boy who wanted a wife had to prove his manhood (in a positive way). And then he was rewarded by having access to a wife and indeed wives. A no-good male was shunned by society and couldn't reproduce (after his kind). This kept unruly males to a minimum. In addition, a lot of times their energies were harnessed in the army or other dangerous pursuits... where they either became heroes or met their demise . In short, society had a way of managing toxic males...( For the good of all.) Toxic females (omazakhela or home-wreckers) were shunned and labeled in the community. This reduced their numbers. Why this is relevant is because a lot of incentives (for positive behaviour) have been removed.( And a lot of disincentives for toxic behaviour have been removed.) Being an upstanding man gives you less reward today than at any point in history. Women will spend their best (most appealing and fertilile years) with bad boys. This encourages toxic males and discourages good men who feel unrewarded. (Understanding that females are the prize in any specie.)- you then get resentment and bad behaviour/ acting out) Also no man enjoys raising another male's kids. Women need to change their mindset, reward good /positive men, shun toxic males. Men need to stand up, demand to be the solution and remove toxic males from the community /and culture. That is the ONLY way to protect the vulnerable in society. *predators target the physically weak first in any setting. Hence good men need to be recognised, given prominence and respect. And women have to teach their daughters to exclusively mate and have offspring with these good and positive role models. Teach sons to take responsibility (and stop fawning over badly behaved little 'kings' ) Women have the power to shape the next generation...they need to use it wisely. * We have take into account the nature and make-up of the genders and formulate solutions which are in tune with nature. That will help help to change the trajectory for the next generation.*Please realise these are tough conversations and require tough solutions. We will only see the change we require if and when we are ready for them.
It would really be nice to c both men and women working together and be solutions driven, instead of being riled up by the propaganda machine to fight and hate one another to cause division both socially and economically.
I disagree, The world is built by men, not women. White men built planes , train and all other machinery to make their life as "White men" better. Whites are intentionally lowering their race to ensure only the best of the white "gene pool exist"(my theory) .The fact that black men cant come together and built something without entering women in it, says a lot .
@thabiso makuwa Penuel was the problem, not Mandisa. Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel in particular, instead Penuel decided to take things personally. It's like trying to speak to a white person about racism and she/he starts shouting that they are not racist or their ancestors did not own racism. WTF? There is a serious problem with GBV and rape in South Africa and men need to speak to other men to stop this nonsense. A woman can only raise a boy upto a certain point, South African men are behaving badly because they are being raised in homes where men are absent or irresponsible. Penuel even started talking about hoochie ladies, not to mention the swearing. He's out of control. He needs to stop fake intellectualising and just get a show like podcast and chill.
@@Penuelism Penuel, thankyou for this conversation my brother. One thing I will say, I won't say much, BUT IT'S HARD TO BR A MAN IN THIS SOCIETY, I GUARANTEE YOU BRO. MOST OF US TRY BY ALL MEANS TO BE GOOD MEN AND CITIZENS. WE LOOK AFTER OUR WIVES AND CHILDREN WELL, BUT THIS TOXIC FERMINISM IS BUSY TEARING US APPART LIKE NOTHING YOU'VE EVER SEEN. Why must I carry anther person's sin whom I don't even know, never even met. How do I confront that one against his behavior if I don't know him? All the men I know in my circular are good guys, they're not rapists and abusers. So where do we start looking for these bad guys so they can be dealt with? Otherwise good guys are gonna end up being easy targets for crimes they didn't commit!!
Mandisa is forcing her views on Pen. She is okay with misquoting him. That is a huge problem. She has good points and she makes a lot of sense. But she is emotional and selective. That makes her hard to listen to.
@7eventh Day Penuel was the problem, not Mandisa. Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel in particular, instead Penuel decided to take things personally. It's like trying to speak to a white person about racism and she/he starts shouting that they are not racist or their ancestors did not own racism. WTF? There is a serious problem with GBV and rape in South Africa and men need to speak to other men to stop this nonsense. A woman can only raise a boy upto a certain point, South African men are behaving badly because they are being raised in homes where men are absent or irresponsible.
Dankie Penuel... She became very defensive when the child abuse and child killing question was brought up. Whenever I aske feminists this question I get the same reaction.
@Lunga Pakkies She didn't become defensive, she said it shouldn't turn into whataboutism? The issue at hand was GBV, rape, not child abuse and killing children. Child abuse and killing children are serous issues and should not be CONFLATED with GBV and rape.
@@lekis5975 fair point. but From what I understand Penuel was arguing about the idea that men should take collective responsibilities of GBV and rape where women would never do the same about child abuse and killings.
@@lungapakkies7691 If you listen to the conversation, somewhere along the way, Sis Mandisa admitted that she would be ready to take collective responsibility, for the atrocities committed by women, in as far as looking for a solution. She added, that taking collective responsibility is not an admission of guilty, instead it is the equivalent of entering into a commitment to bring about change by any means necessary. In the African culture, at a certain age, the boys were handed over to the care of the father. Reason being, only a man, can teach a boy how to be a man. Women can talk all they want, but in order for serious change to take place, men must lead the discourse. Only a a man, can raise a boy/man!
However Sis Mandisa says that the argument that men should take collective responsibility is only the start of the conversation. Perhaps we should let her unfold this line of thought, perhaps we could come to some sort of consensus. Perhaps.
Well said, Penuel jumped on Mandisa and sullied the waters pretty early on, and anyone who is intimidated by women decided Mandisa was wrong. To be honest, if I was Mandisa I would not come back to this platform again.
Supposed "good men" only good at defending themselves and their inability to call each other out. But will never defend their own black women! Totally sick society and mindsets 🤞
Open minded people too do have heated arguements but one thing about such arguements is that theres always something to take from one another even thought it may not mean you agree with each other at that time, thats what it means to be strong minded
This is a bit too graphic for me because I am very sensitive. While we advocate for our voices to being heard may we pray for the power to engage. We are emotional beings but again we need to put aside emotions when its time to dialogue so we come up with real solutions 🙌
I have been havin this conversation of how good men have been silenced and isolated in this current societies. Societie have grown to assume that women can be empowered by diminishing the men in the men, and this has left men from low socio economic levels without voice but victims of both these toxic men and this toxic feminism. I think we should speak of Feminist Anxiety
I Love this woman ,she’s so poise ,calm and collected ..very smart and eloquent…Pen is always coming from a Fighting point of view and defence perspective..Listen to understand sometimes …
Loving the RAW conversation but wish bother sides were willing to meet each other halfway. I hope we continue to have these conversations in our circles and AT HOME.
Now this is the type of content we’d like to see on our TV screens. Highly informative and thought provoking. Podcasts in South Africa are slowly becoming our gateway to openly address multiple social ills. I think the more quality content we consume , the healthier the conversations we’ll have in our homes and societies at large in attempts to facilitate change. 💕
S/o to The Penuel Show💯
wow nicely stated 🙌
I liked the beginning and Mandisa is so very informed but I couldn’t finish because the host has no respect for women we can debate whilst still being respectful. You assessments are typical target talk by men and stubborn to learn. Mandisa was gracious to even school you and still missed an opportunity to learn. I wanted to hear more from her but Panuel 🤮🤮
In the future i see "them" crippling content creator legs to walk the talk since it will go against their agenda to polarize humanity until then lets walk the talk
@@mmasechabasegage6923 o bua nywana. I doubt we were looking at the same session. When you agree with it, she's informed. There is nothing that Panuel said that was slightly disrespectful. You are looking for echo chambers
@@mmasechabasegage6923 i don't think this was meant to be an interview of Mandisa but two well informed individuals having a constructive conversation. i did not get the feel that Pen doesnt respect women, in the risk of sounding like im defending Penual to you but he's not the one who called the other person childish and wouldn't allow them to speak when they way sharing their views. I don't think this is a man against women fight, but rather good people against bad people. Penuel raised a point about how a lot of kids are killed with women involved in some shape or form, Mandisa went defensive and asked for numbers, as if the numbers changes the facts somewhat. Lets not get emotional and pick sides, as soon as you say "Them" and "You Men" in such conversations, it becomes a Men vs Women thing. You can't expect all men to take responsibility for what some men choose to do, same way you can expect all women to take responsibility for what other women get up to. I don't think you would allow anything bad to happen to your children in your watch but yet we've seen and continue to see women and men giving small kids hubbly and alcohol for what ever reasons i cant comprehend myself.
Penuels ability to calm down and listen is a highly underrated skill, uMamMandisa has an alarming number of eye opening things that she has to say but they are musked by bad communication habits
@Wandile Hlapi Have you thought that perhaps Mandisa is very emotional because she has seen the devastating effects of GBV and rape, and the harmful effects these abuse has on the family and society,? Have you stopped to consider that maybe her tone comes from a place of pain and not ego?
Mandisa is a sweet person. Her father abandoned the family leaving the mother to raise them, yet in his old age, he has moved in with her, she is the one who looks after him.
Mandisa is urging men to step forward, and take responsibility, because she knows men prefer to listen to other men. Facts. I'm telling you if this was another man having this conversation with Penuel, I highly doubt if he would received the criticism that Mandisa has faced!
@@lekis5975 I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense, I also think her emotions will make a lot of people miss her facts because she herself is invalidating and misinterpreting what Panel is saying.
I think if your intentions are to address men then you should speak in a language that men understand and the fact is the moment a discussion like this becomes emotional there are men that switch off.
It's like changing to a foreign language mid-discussion and expecting a person to keep up with you.
But Penuel as well was contributing to her frustrations. Not by disaggreeing with her points but over controlling the pacing of the conversation . Proper discourse even when heated is possible . Both parties could’ve done better
Always funny seeing black people fighting each other instead of addressing the elephant in the room, which is:
The Wealth inequality in SA:
-South Africa has a population of 59.39 million people and off that 59.39m, 81% are black people,
9% are coloureds, 8% are white and 3% are Indian. White people, whom only account for 8% of the population, hold 80% of the wealth, leaving 93% of the population with with a measly 20%, making it the most unequal country in the world, with race playing a determining factor;
Meaning 8/10, a black child is going to be born and brought up in poverty and studies have shown that poverty is the mother of all socio-economic issues. hence why it seems as if black people are barbaric which is not true, whatsoever.
The solution is blatantly obvious, but because black people are too scared of addressing they real problem, they’ll just keep blaming each other.
@@L0rdstormpeople need to be aware of their emotions and how they are dangerous to the public(viewers). Penuel is not a perfect moderator but Mandisa went out of her way to misinterpret what Pen was saying.
I could careless if Mandisa was insulting Pen because that’s a low blow that’s always gonna come from emotional people but do not enter a public platform as an “activist” and come with clouded listening skill levels and worst misinterpret someone else.
Penuel did good by standing his ground because as much as usis Mandisa is raising important points she enforces things on Penuel and is the one being emotional. I will protect women and will call out brothers who think it is right to abuse women in all the ways one can think of but I can never take responsibility for an act I have never committed nor think of committing.
Otherwise great conversations. I thank you brother Pen for bringing such a great mind.🙏🏾🙌🏾❤️Much love to uSis Mandisa🙏🏾❤️
I dont like this toxic feminist. I dont know why they like giving her the platform.
Big up💪 Mandy u represent the voice less,and i like the fact that u can contain urself to put across what u are standing for,if there were good ones they would listen to u with empathy because they also have sisters they should be worrying about,the ego is like leprosy as u would observe it.Viva Mandy they can't stand u
@@fezekagertrudegysman-chiny6650 well said!
Bull 💩 he became emotional and looked stupid
@@fezekagertrudegysman-chiny6650 good point but she is too toxic. you cant be in an educational discussion and you don't want to listen, you putting words in somebody's mouth or over exaggerating points.
44:27- Men do not engage women on such arguments because most women tend to be emotional and also want to impose their ideas on men. A very informative engagement. Big ups to both of yall. The show has gained a new subscriber 🙌
Men need to learn the historical wisdom that came from not engaging with women on some matters.
@maxwellmabuza1988 She's totally and absolutely right but only a certain level of intelligence and unbiased, unemotional individuals will get her message.
So iemotional conversation, it makes you realize how much both genders in South Africa do not understand each other in reality, theres' more to learn and learn as men and women in order to build a beautiful future for our generations to come.
Both genders want to be right all the time. None wants to listen to the other. You can tell how Mandisa just wants the guy to agree to everything she says.
Love what you said here brother!
True 👊
@maxwell mabuza you can never win in a group of women bro. What I commented on is proved by what you just said. Nna I avoid such discussions these days...for my own mental state
@maxwell mabuza only few ladies who understand the future of our country if we still allow such ladies with less understanding because they can speak good English we think they know something mean while they know nothing they a childish this Mandisa lady is toxic
15 minutes in and I just couldn’t take it anymore,I applaud you my brother for keeping your cool. I cannot have a conversation with someone who is not willing to listen me but expect me to listen to him/her. The lady was not having a conversation,she was on fight mode and went In with emotions rather that being logical.
I was also so shocked I had to come to the comments to see if it's just me. I've watched her episode last time and she was great to watch. Today it was war and very condescending. I wouldn't have lasted even if I was on her own platform. Hopefully she re-watches and sees she missed a golden opportunity to spit bars to open ears cos many won't finish this episode. Mutual respect can still be had in tough debate
Mandisa is proving Penuel's point
@@Tom_34321 We do love and appreciate Mandisa's truth and intelligent. She works hard to serve other people. However is her attitude that destroys her when communicating with the other gender.
It seems every time when women spit facts its then identified as being emotional. Shes mentioning statistics what happening today then shows you how it can be solved. where are emotions here?
She has some facts but even us men we gave our facts...good men can't suffer bcoz of bad men...that's crazy......
Hoping to see Maponga soon. This is a dope platform, sound 👌 resolution 👌.
Big ups.
It's my first time listening to Sisi Mandisa, and I love her already! Thanks to both of you, Penuel! 🔥 Very thought-provoking, emotionally-charged, fact-supported conversation and it's much needed! Can't wait for more episodes.
I really enjoy the confrontational edge this show has so far. It makes the conversations very engaging. Good job Penuel!
Thank you Daniel 🙏🏽
@Daniel Pearson Confrontational? That is what you find engaging, not the arguments? The discussion is serious, and it should not be confrontational.
For me it would be more beneficial if more statistical facts were drawn to prove a point but for me it was more of i am right and you are wrong kind of conversation.
@@isoboy1000facts. But from my perspective your use of statistics with this type of woman is like turning water into wine.
Thanks Penuel for this platform, this is what we need in as far as robust engagements should be not look like, I appreciate the honesty and differences in the stating of facts. The fact that the conversation keeps going much respect is given, at some point I thought Mandisa was going to workout of this conversation.
She's a proper soldier. I have great respect for her.
Mandisa has such a beautiful smile! I absolutely love how they are able to provocatively fight and then find common ground again. Kudos to Penuel and the team for the amazing platform, of course!
Penuel is talking for me as a man, I can understand what he is saying on deeper level.
True!! He does justice in showing the conflicts we men have and thd corners we are pushed to.
But the problem is, what he is saying is really a surface level argument 🤔
@@pearlgabayi6146 explain?
@@pearlgabayi6146I need clarity on this as well.
Hats off to Penuel for calming down and redirecting the energy in the room to focus on the point again.
Excuse my rant but I feel just as strongly about these issues, we need to do better collectively...
True and to work collectively we need to identify and separate the wolf from the sheep, which is what the activists are always failing to do.
Loving the show Penuel, love the rawness of the conversation and I learned a lot from Dr Mandisa and you
Wow, that was a brilliant conversation and we need a strong woman like her to speak her mind without fear.
No we don't
I fckn love how raw this podcast is, and it's a pity because SA is such a emotional type of society that won't get this, our country is too soft not able to engage in real raw conversations like these.... Well done ma bru and the big brain 🧠 lady Mashego
Thank you. Emotions and lack of good communication are a huge hurdle in life
Oko I came across The Black Pen I've learnt alot and have had a mindset shift...Way too much value. Asbonge🙏🏾
It is challenging to have a decent and fair conversation with Sis Mandisa.
You can tell she wished she was a man, but she cant be one so next best thing is to attack what she wished to be but will never be.
The problem with two people arguing a point to win is, you don't get anywhere. Mandisa speaks from a special victim perspective which makes it difficult to hear her.
@maxwell mabuza Even if she was right speaking alone in a conversation makes you a fanatic. And most fans are irrational and emotional. For someone speaking for equality, she's the polar opposite of what she says she's fighting for.
@maxwell mabuza I am with you on this one Max. Mandisa is giving a lecture when it should be a convo with each getting insights from another, instead she's speaking to Penuel like her naughty child, simply because she's a male. A lot of what she says gets lost in the as women we are better than you aggressive tone which can only get short circuited responses.
A civil conversation requires intermittent listening and speaking by both parties. Listening to respond and not to react is an underrated skill.
People with public platforms need to stop being passive just because they have an important world renowned guest they invited, they need to control the flow of the conversation at all times.
I have to give it to Penuel, listening to someone with a 12 year old's reasoning who wants to speak alone and takes facts as insults.
I wasn't expecting this from her but we move
By "12 year old" , you not referring to Mandisa I hope, her intelligence and reasoning is above any penuelist comprehension.
@@clipzovid99 Really, 🤣🤣😂🤣😂
@@faladimabaso6584 yes. Really.
Look
I can listen to u sis Mandisa speak anytime she is indeed a walking library full of knowledge. Mfoka Mlotshwa you are a good host. Please continue to challenge people you're hosting just like you did from episode 1🙌🏿🙌🏿
I listen to Mandisa on the Hustlers Corner and this trait of her never shows out because there she's the only one talking here I was about to be thrown off this conversation but I was kept by how Pen contained the situation and how he stood for his points. Big up Black Pen
Dr Sbu is built differently from Penuel, he lets things go too far and doesn’t have any point to make in the conversation.
Basically it becomes “Dj Sbu the dean of the University invites Mandisa as a keynote speaker” while on Penuel’s podcast you actually get a dialogue not a monologue.
Try to invite university professors to debunk issues, science and Technology. Shout Out to our South African Joe Rogan
😂😂📍 Facts.
Is Joe Rogan an intelligent man?
You decide
@@ThabangTM Should he not be an intelligent man, as according to your barometer of intelligence, we must nonetheless applaud his summoning of studied intellectuals, professors and the likes of smarts to debunk fallacies.
I understand Mr Penuel, I can't take responsibility for someone elses actions but I can take responsibility in my actions and my impact on the world. I cannot take responsibility for someone else's mistake but I can take responsibility in helping to fix what is broken. I do not want to be judged based on someone elses actions, and I am sure you also don't want to be judged by someone else's actions.
@Tiang Mokori Men are ego driven creatures. They much prefer to listen to other men than to listen to women. All Sis Mandisa is saying is that men should step forward and lead this battle of GBV and RAPE because men are more likely to listen when a fellow man pulls them up.
If it was Malema who had said the same things, using the same tone, none would have judged him, in fact most men deriding Sis Mandisa, would have called him passionate, not emotional.
You are not being judged, you are being asked to go and speak to your brethren and see if you can see how men can stop perpetrating GBV and RAPE. Go and talk amongst yourselves, advise each other, counsel each other, encourage each other without "a feminazi" upsetting you.
Common sense
Lovely show God Penuel, Thank you Dr Mandisa, you are voice for women, Thank you for robustly debating Penuel, thank you for the proposed solutions as well, I will be starting my veggie garden in my yard.😊💗
❤️❤️❤️
Props to this women for gripping penuel like this. She was right to push him to take back his "2%" statement tho, and just the way she did it so tenderly i really felt the care for him.
Uh?
I totally understand where sis Mandisa is coming from. As a man I hate what women in our have to go through. It does not matter that not all men rape, the statistics of rape and other crimes can't be tolerated. We have failed on our responsibility to protect women and children. Let's reflect, find solutions and stop shouting at each other. Let's not defend we have to find the root.
Be careful with your superman attitude. You will lose your life uselessly. Start at home 🏡. Protect your immediate own. Be very cautious with your superman attitude, you'll die for the wrong one
@@vincentmokoena4004 I hear you!
Thank you, well received!
Do you know the root?
I believe we need to have such conversations. Well done to Sisa Mandisa for standing her ground.
🎧 Great production and content you got Pen! Please fix sound, I'm on earphones and the left ear is way louder than the right. Or if it's my earphones, let's hear from others??
I listened with my earphones: no issues if both right and left are inserted into the ears. If only 1 ear is inserted, there is an audible sound discrepancy.
Not your earphones, there's no audio in my right ear
big shout out to you for standing your ground at 11 minutes, you are being called all sorts of names for asking simple question
SA’s an emotionally charged environment so I don’t see this having early mass adopters because I don’t think we (South Africans) are adequately (from a wholesale p.o.v.) equipped with having idealistic conversations that don’t bleed into the emotional space. This was obviously a sensitive conversation that somewhat places it on a back foot even before it’s taken place because of the relationship SA has with violence & how familiar we are with its outcomes. For one to appreciate both perspectives, one has to prefect themselves not to end up being emotional but it’s still a conversation about violence (oppression) which won’t exist without emotions. Tough balancing act. I’ll definitely have to watch this again to fully appreciate each one’s arguments as ideas then weighing that against real life outcomes before selectively absorbing (if need be) the content.
Appreciate the raw & robust nature of the interaction. Bangene ket!👊🏾
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
@ The Last Ear Well said.
What wrong with being emotional? Being ilogical under high emotion is the problem not the emotion itself.
I wont lie I enjoy listening to this lady dig herself into a never ending ditch of narcissistic tendencies and feministic biases...completely distroying her own credibility in terms of her misplaced hatred for men and how clouded her judgement is cause of that, But in the same breath i love how smart she is ill definately give her that.
So she made no valid points in your opinion?
Agreed. Some of her arguments were fundamentally flawed and her outright refusal to try and hear a different point of view didn’t help.
I know right!
She hates man and blames man for everything
@@lihlivangelin7521 She definately made a whole lot of valid points. Did you get my point though?
salute to you my brother , i dont know how you were able to keep your composure
the way pen brought back peace into the convo is dope
Legendary stuff
Okay I'm probably the only man in comments section that gets her. She is spot on. Massive respect to Mandisa
@The Revival TV Well said. I have counted FOUR men so far who get her. The rest are just spewing poison it's shocking. I am worried for the South African woman.
Hat off to you for understanding a simple thing. ❤
Which part do you get her share your thoughts
I simply love this lady. She is on point feisty and gorgeous too. Always enjoy Penual too. Thanks to you both💖
Mandisa is a very intelligent woman, we love her, our sisters should aspire to be as intelligent and strong but she needed to listen to Pen’s reasoning for not wanting to take collective responsibility. The conversation could have given us more, Pen please do a separate video explaining why you don’t support the idea of collective accountability.
Great idea.
@Sipho Godfrey Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel in particular, instead Penuel decided to take things personally. It's like trying to speak to a white person about racism and she/he starts shouting that they are not racist or their ancestors did not own slaves. WTF? There is a serious problem with GBV and rape in South Africa and men need to speak to other men to stop this nonsense. A woman can only raise a boy upto a certain point, South African men are behaving badly because they are being raised in homes where men are absent or irresponsible.
Penuel decided to triangulate by trotting out arguments hinging on "what about white men!, what about the fact that women are killing children". Indeed those issues are of concern, however they should not be used to rebut arguments pertaining to GBV. Even Mandisa readily admitted, that she his willing to take responsibility for the wrongs that have been committed by other women.
Exactly 🙌🙌🕯🕯
Why do you think men should take collective responsibility ?
@@nhloniphoingqwele5433 Because it’s done by men and you protect other men and claim to be “good men”. Nina “good men” what are you doing about this phenomenal other than “it’s not all of us, we good men”. You need to take accountability
Let's GO, Penuel! Congratulations on the new platform. Keep going. 🙌🏽
Love and blessings 🙏🏽❤️
Moer love the production Pen... This is solid. Sensing some Rogan vibes. Great conversation. This podcast can be big.
However uMandisa is emotional and neglecting reality.
Shoutout to Tribal Media House... their work is insane 🔥🔥🔥
There is no doubt about fact that she is a powerhouse 💯✊️
To be honest, if this woman can calmly put her point across I as a man can listen to her. Speak to us not at us. Penuel my man I hear your argument, as men let's just push to be better and let's just do our best. Thanks for this discussion
This is by far the best podcast episode ive seen in 2022 i love you guys energy
Thank you Aus Mandisa, Penuel will never understand, it scary actually
Penuel understands her points. She’s actually the one not understanding/hearing Penuel. 😂how do you assume each murder is committed by a new person? She’s a smart woman but even my 16 year old brother can out debate her regarding gender issues.
Pen we can not get enough of this controversial woman, keep on bringing her to the platform
zibambene ngezihluthu la, but I'm glad Penuel stood his ground even though Mandisa had great points. Please bring her back, we need her as a regular on the show coz she's just a good powerhouse.
Stunning debate my leader! Sis Mandisa is a incredible woman. 🖤🙏🏿👌🏿🔥
Two episodes in. I'm already loving this podcast
😊😊😊
I'm loving the show and I hope it grows more and more. Looking forward to the next show and big up to Penuel.
Blessings 🙏🏽
We as good men need to take collective responsibility. We can not rely on our own mothers and sisters to continue fighting for themselves as the states show that their are losing terribly. I am disappointed on men who take the stance like Pens, because all they are doing is isolating themselves from the solution. What is the need of been standby “supporters”, what kind of men are you than, since you are “Good Men.”
This is a great platform though
You're so right Pen! We're silencing the good black men. At this point, we're fighting for the black girl and forgetting to teach the black boy child.
Welcome to USA man issue
exactly
If I can, I'd like to advise on the sound. I have done extensive research on the Podmic, and have learnt that to get the best quality out of it, the subject(s) should be very close to the mic. Again, your studio isn't acoustically treated, you'll have to reduce the low and top-end highs on your EQ. If you can, try to at least add a rug to the room that will help to absorb sound and reduce feedback.
Thank you for sharing this. Always love and welcome constructive criticism, especially with solutions ✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽
Reminds me of The Big Debate without the time limits 🔥🔥🔥🔥🙏🏽
As a doctor who has worked in the emergency room and has treated victims of rape, has had to clinically assess them and prove the rape, I can say that it is NOT ALWAYS easy proving rape. Be it, a rape that just occured or occured a few days prior to it being reported..
Thank you for sharing your experiences. We need to have a very difficult conversation about rape, how to avoid it, how to report it correctly, how to stop false accusations, how to raise boys & men who won't rape, dealing with the police, etc.
but here is a woman saying that Penuel is defending rape by saying the exact words as you and what i like about you is that you are talking from experience.
You know, i have come the conclusion that it is difficult to have a constructive conversation with women. You always allow your emotions to suppress your logic. I mean, its not rocket science how difficult a task is to prove rape but because of her emotional rant, she said otherwise
@@sbongamandlamwelase7559 Welcome to the club.
@@sbongamandlamwelase7559 it doesn’t sound like you and sis Mandisa are any different then. Because you come with that generalised conclusion that women are emotional and lack logic, the same way she is generalising her viewpoints against all men.
What gives you the right to generalise about your experiences with women when, according to you, she’s not allowed to generalise her experiences with men?
Both of you won more of my respect in this conversation. Brilliant conversation 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Not at all
Her points are clouded by her lack of reasoning and communication
It might have been a cringe fest, but I still thoroughly enjoyed the raw honesty. This is the kind of content I signed up for, unscripted messy with teachable moments right or wrong.
@@E38kabelo "cringefest"🤣. I also felt awkward at some point honestly
This is the best podcast i have ever watched. you guys (the 2 of you are very great) and have information. I could not disagree with anyone of you. you guys are correct, we just have to understand where your debate is coming from.
Mandisa clearly has something to say but her message isn't hitting for me. Personally I will never take collective responsibility for rapists and murderers because if I come out and say "I'm part of the problem" then I'm giving the actual rapists and murderers a group to shield them and hide behind this so called collectiveresponsibilit. People should be individually called out and grouped and then we can say "these are the monsters."
Another thing I notice is that she's calling for collective responsibility but she doesn't elaborate on what exactly is this responsibility I have to take because if she's so convinced that it works then it must be something I need to hear out, but so far she's saying nothing about what is this collective responsibility.
Women dnt take a fall for women who do wrong things infact when a woman is found guilty of anything only then we think about the reasons and justifications yet men are considered evil for no reason (its their DNA clearly) ..I am sorry as much as I am woman and all for women empowerment I cnt raise my hand and be a part of toxicity that is well planned by the western society to create a mess and confusing in Africa..if we are going to conquer we need to have genuine conversations, we need to begin by understanding how we got here.How we ignored who we are and defined ourselves throught the eyes of the Western system I will never understand..We can not raise a boy child and then later that same boy becomes enemy number 1, unless he is part of the Queer community ( ps: No homo). Males and females have contributed to this mess knowingly and unknowingly..we cannot hold one Gender accountable..unless we want to complain just for the sake of staying in our victimhood(women) then we on the right direction Viva Mbokodo
@@pamelamdluli8359 perhaps the agenda now is telling black women that black men and black women cannot coexist in an equally important role in a society. That is to say that the black man is on top of the black women, and if black women want to reclaim their dignity they would have to defeat black men and go on top of the food chain themselves. It is made to look like we cannot hold the same ground as black people, men and women, and work together for the betterment of our children. That is the threat: Black men and black women raising kids in a mutually respectful environment with family values and proper support structures.
She has a message but it is getting distorted by her attitude.
This is a very intense conversation but it was productive and fair. I wish we communicated like this here.
I just love her struggle she's a woman for women and she's dedicated her life for that struggle. And as soon as men or "good men" realise collective responsibility as men is important maybe one day men might listen without being individually defensive.
who's being defensive?
@ Eugene where were the men when those single women raising those men alone. MIA. Why should women be held responsible for raising children alone when they're not supposed to in the first place. Maybe if they had fathers around they would have a better outcome. The real problem is absent fathers. What happens to boys that are raised by both parents or have present fathers? "Good and responsible men" are needed in society to be active participants in constructive struggles including fighting for women n children and taking a stand against bad men that are destroying our society. In short if ur a good man stand n fight for something Ur needed.
@@celebratecreativity7451 Well said Celebrate creativity. The calibre of comments here are very disturbing. I've read all the comments in this thread and I am disturbed by the comments. South Africa is full of men who hate women. Penuel is not equipped to be discussing such matters. Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel in particular, instead Penuel decided to take things personally. It's like trying to speak to a white person about racism and she/he starts shouting that they are not racist or their ancestors did not own racism. WTF? There is a serious problem with GBV and rape in South Africa and men need to speak to other men to stop this nonsense. A woman can only raise a boy upto a certain point, South African men are behaving badly because they are being raised in homes where men are absent or irresponsible.
@@eugenehlabangwane4183 Penuel was the problem, not Mandisa. Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel in particular, instead Penuel decided to take things personally. It's like trying to speak to a white person about racism and she/he starts shouting that they are not racist or their ancestors did not own racism. WTF? There is a serious problem with GBV and rape in South Africa and men need to speak to other men to stop this nonsense. A woman can only raise a boy upto a certain point, South African men are behaving badly because they are being raised in homes where men are absent or irresponsible.
As @Celebrity creativity rightly asked, where are the fathers? A woman can only raise a man up to a certain point, that is why in the traditional african society, when boys reached a certain age, they were put under the tutelage of their men, it is men used to oversea the circumcision process. South African men are acting crazy because they do not have male role models, ,their fathera are either absent or useless.
@@eugenehlabangwane4183yes when theres no man in the home the boy will be a bitch
I'm loving Sis Mandisa 🔥🔥... The way our system is set up is just bad.. I know of a friend who wanted to report rape, we went to five different doctors and those doctors kept sending us up and down.. 😭😭 When Sis Mandisa spoke about rape it opened up that wound.. 💔💔
I think Mma Mashego should listen to another person's opinion. It's difficult for audience to listen to her because she doesn't want to engage. The purpose of the podcast is to share knowledge where both parties engage and correct one another.
This conversation is very important to the African communities. But!!! Here is my stake:
1, you are both right. Everything you both are saying is right.
2. Madam, you need to learn to listen. You spoke soo long and when he started to speak, you spoke him through although you had to listen and give him a chance to speak.
3. He has a very big point about women not listening to men. In our community our men are really not heard. Men are also injured just like women. Bad men are few but good men are a lot.
3 the only way to solve madam's point of view is to listen to men's problem emotional injuries and heal the good men first. Once they are healed they will be our strong back bone and they will help us fight off the bad men. We need the good men to fight off the bad men and we have to start by empowering man emotionally but mostly, women we need to listen to men's issues as they also have mentally, financially, emotionally and spiritually problems.
Madam, you are an example of women not allowing themselves to listen to what good men are trying to say.
We need dialogue and conversations and not arguments. We need to listen to each other to solve the problems, PLEASE!!!
She lost the plot. This is the issue with self-righteous feminism and not wanting to have an intellectually HONEST conversation to SOLVE A PROBLEM , rather than using a problem as an excuse for man-bashing.
SA women are responsible for 72% of the murders of young children.
The child murder rate is 10x higher than some countries of similar size.
Irony is she talks of being defensive yet as soon as this reality is mentioned look at how defensive she gets, even arguing about population exploding meaning children can't be being killed by women.
By that logic, wouldn't that mean that men couldn't have done it either when you thought it was men?
(Also, by the way, she later says "the population in Scandinavia is in decline, not Africa".
Notice how she said Africa, not South Africa,...because she probably knows South Africa only has a fertility rate of 2.3 barely above population replacement rate of 2.1.
So she must have known population "explosion" was a disingenuous argument for SA either way, apart from the fact that it has NOTHING to do with whether children are being killed or not.)
At issue was that if ALL men must take responsibility, then so must ALL women.
South African children are under siege by black women.
Why would you kill someone who cannot defend themselves? But she minimises the problem.
Also SA black women mutilate & brain-damage their own kids drinking & smoking while pregnant.
In the rest of the world 1.5% fetal alcohol syndrome is considered a crisis.
In SA in some communities it is as high as 30%.
South African children are under siege from black women. So SA black women must take responsibility.
She also lost the plot on the assumption that the number of rape offenders should be assumed to be different people e.g. that 11 000 rapes will equals 11 000 distinct rapists.
SA has always had some of the highest number of caught & uncaught REPEAT criminal offenders of violent crimes.
e.g in some areas over 90% of the crimes are known to be by repeat offenders.
And the rate of recidivism in South Africa is one of the highest globally, which means convicted criminals are more likely to be involved in crime than the general population.
*It was estimated that roughly 30 000 people are most responsible for the bulk of SA's repeat violent crime.*
And we all know the elephant in the room: People are overwhelmingly the product of their upbringing & the broader morals instilled in them, with only some deviation.
It's why in pretty much every serial killer/rapist's background is massive physical, sexual & psychological abuse as a child.
To get the absurd level of amoral behaviour we have in SA, the morals of the people who raised people must be atrociously low beyond belief. And we know who the majority of black children get raised by.... women.
Whoever you are, thank you for opening up the stats and making me understand with what's in SA.
Stop being in denial
You last paragraph 😂you blame women for the violence in society and don’t take a second to ask yourself where are the men?? Penuel has 5 kids and not a full time parent to any of them and you still have the nerve to blame women 😭😭I can’t!
@@mmasechabasegage6923 See. In denial! Proving my point.
No sense of self-awareness. Precisely what I responded to originally, but we can go around in circles if you like:
Day in day out you see a house with a mature woman with 2 adult daughters from 2 different fathers.
Daughter 1: 4 babies, 4 different fathers.
Daughter 2: 2 babies, 2 different fathers.(Another on the way from a 3rd father)
But then "wannabe western SA feminists" will pretend that what happened with single SA mothers was a married woman's deadbeat husband went out to buy a pack of cigarettes one evening & never came back.
NO, these women engage in multiple, often random transactional promiscuity. This is the result.
The difference in the countries where single motherhood is not such a major problem is the behaviour of the women (the person with the womb) actually, not so much difference in the behaviour of men.
And OBVIOUSLY there are behaviours among both sexes that need addressing.
60% of SA women are estimated to be in "transactional relationships". The random men these women had transactional sex with often don't even know they have a baby.
(And general moral deviation at SA levels is caused by the moral upbringing by people you HAD, not by who you DIDN'T have.
So the poor general morality is instilled by those that ARE there, which tells us who THEY are, not who people who are absent are.)
The same women willing to drink and smoke while pregnant at rates unheard of in other places, creating brain damage & behavioural problems, are NOT miraculously virtuous in other domains of later parenting & morality.
This is the result. So stop living in denial. But you can't...indeed.
@@agrid2608 indeed bro. The likelihood of a good man spontaneously leaving his child is almost nonexistent. A majority of those women make mistakes when they are young, and reproduce with terrible bad men. They exercise their democratic right by dumping the bad men, but the children are already born. So the real cause of them being single mothers was them making poor choices when they were young. They chose the bad men, and some bad man don't mind not being part of the upbringing of the children - so is Mandisa saying we should force these men to force these women to stay with them.
Wow! Mandisa is my woman crush forever! Powerhouse personified!
A true podcast.
- I'm excited for the next shows.
This lady's arguments are just mindblowing. She's arguing without really thinking what she's saying. She says its scientific for us to assume that crimes (rape, assault) when commited we assume that the perpetrators or criminals are non repeaters.😂😂.
That was a very careless statement from Mandisa. SAPS have confirmed that these serious crimes like rape and murder have a lot of repeat offenders. It's never one offender for one victim. Look at the recent cases of rape in West Rand by the Zama zamas.
Biggest load of garbage but then again feminists and their woke thugs will dig in their heels when it comes to regurgitating their nonsense. If you dare offer alternative views let alone debunk their propaganda it's because you are a ' denialist " and suffer from hatred of women. I was under their wrath daily when on Twitter until I left the platform in October 2019.
But if you had listened to her, she’s basing that on the fact that the majority of these crimes are not reported for whatever reason, therefore let’s just assume the reported are not repeaters
wemon are emotional she was al up in here emotion
@@kgaladymaleka3501 nice try to get her off the hook … but still not scientific! Worse mandisa says it like it is a fact
I love and respect Mandisa mara Aai Kona. she is being emotional. she can't have a proper conversation without being emotional and accusing Penuel of misogyny etc. Sadly Penuel fell for her trap and became emotional as well.
Please invite Dr. Lwazi Lushaba to unpack the issues of coloniality and how those continue to be our reality today.
Great spirited and passionate conversation.
Food for thought:
Weren't all these criminal men though raised by women?
Why should I, as a non-criminal man, take collective responsibility for what these men do,
when women as a group have far more influence over boys developing into such men in the first place?
@Daniel Boyles A woman can only raise her son up to a certain point.70% of South African households are headed by WOMEN. Where are the men who are supposed to raise these men? There is a reason why the circumcision (right of passage to manhood ) is supervised by men.
@Daniel Boyles Your argument is the same argumetn trotted out by white people every time the topic of racism rears it's head...mara I am not racist, mara my ancestors didn't own slaves. Fact is Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel or you in particular.
She was trying to say, men need to come on board and champion this fight against GBV and rape. Simple.
It is disingenuous of you to try and palm off male pathology on mothers. Women cannot raise sons on their own. In indigenous societies, once boys reached a certain age, they went into the care of their fathers. They were taught to hunt, fish, herd cattle, fight, the rites of manhood were supervised by men. Nowadays, boys are sent off to school and left to their own devices, little wonder they are running wild and grow into irresponsible adults. 70% of children in South Africa are raised by single mothers. Where are the fathers?
Has society even asked the fathers where they are or has it chosen to silence all male voices and villainise them instead?
Let's face it. It's far easier to blame men for the world's problems than it is to come up with real solutions because arriving at real solutions would first require an uncomfortable introspective excercise by the persons who have adopted a victim complex.
@@RaineJizzle Gaslighting at it's finest. Last time I checked it's men who prey on women asking for sex, never mind they don't have the means to start or maintain a family.
In the traditional African society, men were taught to respect virginity, if you got a girl pregnant and refused to marry her you would both be stoned to death. Prince Senzangakhona and Nandi had a shot gun wedding for that reason.
In addition to paying lobola, upon marriage, a man was allocated land, which he then passed on to his wife. Men did not want to pay dowry and part with land for a woman they did not love, so they refrained from pressurising women for sex, thereby minimising the chances of a woman falling pregnant. Nowadays, a man will pressurise a woman, and if she doesn't comply he will dump her, and if she complies and falls pregnant...he will dump her. He may marry her, but he will stray and cause problems. And you wonder why women are angry?
The vagaries of men. Colonisation destroyed our traditional way of life in many ways. Men were forced to work in mines, and the pass law imposed restrictions thus destroying familial bonds.
I don't know what victimhood complex women have embraced. South African women are catching fire everyday, the lack of compassion is truly shocking.
I'm a man and I fully understand where sisMandisa is coming from, I fully support you sis Mandisa....
@Dalisu Khanyile THANK YOU. I have read every single comment and I am horrified at the anti woman sentiment displayed by South African men. Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel in particular, instead Penuel decided to take things personally. It's like trying to speak to a white person about racism/reparations and she/he starts shouting that they are not racist or their ancestors did not own slaves. WTF? There is a serious problem with GBV and rape in South Africa and men need to speak to other men to stop this nonsense. A woman can only raise a boy up to a certain point, South African men are behaving badly because they are being raised in homes where men are absent or irresponsible.
Penuel then started triangulating and trotting out whataboutisms...what about the fact that children are being murdered by women, what about white men and indian men. What white men and indian men are doing is should not be used to REBUT the problems in the Black community. The murder of children is a serious issue that should be discussed however it should not be used to REBUT GBV or rape.
Mandisa even conceded that she would take responsibility for the actions of other women and even strive to find solutions if need be. As she rightly said, taking responsibility is not the same as going to court to admit guilt for someone else actions. Men need to step forward and take responsibility and talk to their fellow men because whatever women say can only effect change up to a certain point.
If I was Mandisa I would not deal with Penuel again.
Thankyou 💕
@@melewaz Mxm hasuka tshi LOL
"Are you gonna bully me In this conversation?" "You can't talk down on this issue" says the person that went on and on for a full 20 minutes, I was watching the counter, soon as she gets response she responds immediately and cries wolf that she's being bullied while SHE was the one in lecture mode. Watch how when she speaks she is never interrupted but yeka she can't
Thank you Penuel. Informative indeed
Enjoyed this episode very much. Mandisa is very beautiful would never say she's almost 50. Credit to Pen for standing his some of his points and not just agreeing with her and also for engaging her and not letting her take over the conversation. So deep issues they spoke about here.
"I can finally get a chance to teach people who are gullible"
How I wish we all wanted to teach each other this much. Her excitement shows she's knowledgeable.
Knowledgeable?? Misinformed?? Yes
@@sifisomazibuko4831 She's knowledgeable, she just flopped on this one
Penuel this is amazing. Don’t agree with all your views but these are interesting angles that need to be explored. Please check on the audio though. It plays the guest only on one side of the headsets or speakers when in the car. Brilliant Bro!
Thank you Phiwo 🙏🏽
We need Eusebius Mackenzie please Pen to also discuss gender, politics, LGBTQ and etc please please I beg. Informative show keep it up
Just before and after 22:57 Penuel killed it with logic and valid points… Mandisa felt that and understood it… but instead of acknowledging Pen’s points she chose to neglect everything and deviate😂😂😂 ai WOMEN WOMEN WOMEN
Thank God they will never rule😂😂😂
@BLOSE KwaQoloqolo No Peneul began waffling at that point and engaging in WHATABOUTISM. Bottom line is, the rate of GBV in South Africa is bad. The rate of crime in South Africa is BAD!
Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel in particular, instead Penuel decided to take things personally. It's like trying to speak to a white person about racism and she/he starts shouting that they are not racist or their ancestors did not own racism. WTF? There is a serious problem with GBV and rape in South Africa and men need to speak to other men to stop this nonsense. A woman can only raise a boy upto a certain point, South African men are behaving badly because they are being raised in homes where men are absent or irresponsible.
Penuel on the other hand stands waffling on about white men, coloured men, indian men. Stupid. First and foremost the problem is about what is going on in the BLACK community, not in the white or indian community. Penuel started waffling on about how women kill children, yes that is a problem, but it should not be raised to counter argue/rebut the issue of GBV.
The way Penuel handled the interview was childish.
They will never see things this way
You're saying women women women just like she said men men men. Nah
I am excited for this, I hope this doesn't clash with Virtual Mkhukhu's interests
The more platforms we have to engage the better. In time, all these channels will have many different faces anchoring them & creating their own cultures.
@@Penuelism
You should have a podcast that engages the audience ( where we call in )
I feel you missed a lot of opportunities to hold her feet to the fire
Your follow-up questions did not land, u ended up allowing her to bulldoze you and not answer questions about her reasoning and logic
1 . If women are leading single parent homes, shouldn't they be held accountable for raising boys, who end up being rapists
2 the issue of welcomed and unwelcomed advances , it is only obvious after the Fact
3 Don't women use their sexuality to gain advantage in the workplace and society
4 Sex and Rape is about power, not poverty or mental health
5 The issue of No, women are known for playing hard to get, so as to protect their virtue
This is Dope!!! Side note, the logo reminds me of the Plascon paint brand somehow.
Mandisa's ability to engage in a conversation is littered with SIGN Language (Shame, Insults, Guilt and the Need to be right). S/O to Kevin Samuels.
Need To Be Right*****
RIP godfather
LOL! Exactly what I thought. This reminded me of Kevin Samuels, the women he spoke to. How I miss him.
@@mbasamguye3322 what a beats
Facts
Penuel hats off for your patience brother
if you can, can you have the same conversation with a married woman, i want to see if the conversion will be the same.
Mmmmh good point
Good content, please enhance the sound because it sounds like yall in a hall, but otherwise i love such conversations. Thanks
It's women like this who make me focus on ONLY protecting and caring for the immediate women in my life, mom, sis, wife and daughter. Protect women willing to speak positively about you. Don't let them shame for being a good man. Finish and klaar.
P.s. Penuel is a patient man 😎
True brother, she's so quick to go on defensive mode, that's why I'm only protecting my mother, wife and my daughter. Call me what you want, but I cannot be condemned for something I haven't done and don't do.
Word brother. Her attitude pissed off, I didn't even finish this episode
@Farai Gwaze No matter how much some of you try to hide your true nature, you stay exposing yourself through your WORDS. Your post only serves to expose that you hate women, and you really don't care about the fact that women are being subjected to GBV or rape.
Fact is, you live in close proximity to your sister/ mother/wife, these women you have listed, have a much higher chance of offending you, more than a woman who is a stranger. Fact.
I find it hard to believe that you even protect the aforementioned women. If you did, then you know that women are PHYSICALLY more FRAGILE than men, so why would you think it okay to ignore ANY woman in a moment of distress such as GBV or rape, or be comfortable providing protection on a selective basis?
For heavens sake, we are talking about GBV and rape, why are you comfortable equating GBV or rape to an imaginary offence that might be minor in comparison? Is your ego so fragile, that you need a boost ( a woman to speak positively of you) before you can deem her worthy of your protection? Why do you think it's right to argue quid pro quo (scratch my back and I'll scratch yours) in scenarios where violence is an outcome?
The women in your life, operate in a wider community, yuo will not always be there to protect them, so *How would you feel if your sister/mother/daughter was attacked in front of a man, who harbours the same mentality as you, and he elected not to help her* , simply because he's already prejudged her, and decided she's not worthy of protection, because she would "never speak positively of him?"
At last count, only about SEVEN men in this comment section were able to distinguish between Sis Mandisa's tone and her message. The fact that most of you are more bothered about her TONE than the fact that GBV and rape is a huge problem, speaks volumes. You are telling on yourselves and you don't even know.
Fact is, Mandisa invited men to take responsibility. She is asking for men to be more vocal, to set up groups for conversations. Thing is, she is right. Most men are too fragile to listen when a woman is stating cold hard truths. You are more likely to listen if a man calls you to account, that is why she is saying men need to take responsibility. Your responses are testament to exactly why she is saying men need to take over this conversation!
@@zubenathisobhuza At the risk of repeating myself, I find it hard to believe that you protect the aforementioned women at all.
No matter how much you try to hide your true nature, the truth reveals itself in deeds and your words! The truth of the matter is that you hate women. You live in close proximity to your sister/ mother/wife, they have a much higher chance of offending you, more than a woman who is a stranger.
Also does that mean, if you saw a woman you don't know being attacked, you would ignore the incident, just because you don't know if she will "speak positively of you?" Why do you think it's right to argue quid pro quo; scratch my back and I'll scratch yours, in scenarios where violence is an outcome? Also, why are you comfortable equating GBV and rape to some imaginary offence that might even be minute?
Secondly, since the 3 of you here think that being selective about who you protect is such a brilliant attitude, what happens when your own daughter/sister/mother/wife is attacked when you are not around, will you be comfortable knowing that other men stood aside and watched her being attacked, because they have the same mindset as you? That of only protecting women they are related to?
As a man you should seek to protect ANY WOMAN because you know women are more fragile than men, not because you are more preoccupied with whether or not they will offend you. If a woman offends you, then take up the offence with her, and seek to solve your differences, but to deliberately deny any woman protection for an offence she has not even committed?
Does that mean you think that if a woman has been offensive she deserves to be abused, be it GBV or rape?
Your argument is very flawed. The fact that you think that offering protection on a selective basis is normal behaviour says a lot about you.
@@lekis5975 People get emotional and defensive real quick, we not fighting here. I don't know these guys but I think you are missing their point, of course if you see anyone being beaten or physically harmed, either male or female you will want to help stop the fight, and not what you are assuming they are saying. you are misquoting them just like the lady in this video is doing. I'll make an example, let's say you have money, are you going to make it your life's mission to go around and give everyone money who doesn't have money, of course not, you'll first make sure your immediate family is good, then where you can help others. and you saying you will make focus more on making sure your family is well off doesn't mean you wont care at all about all the other people of the world that you can help. I think it just means you are more willing drop anything and everything to protect and make sure your immediate loved ones are safe and well taken care off. You need to take a second and think before saying things like "you hate women" to people, that's very backwards thinking and that's a whole problem on its own.
This is the 1v1 I was waiting for. Can't believe it happened 😢. Now I watch and listen.
They are indeed hard conversations. It's pointless to blame a particular gender at this point (although men could and should do more). The nature of the male is to dominate territory(at least in mammals) . That's in the dna. Now society wants to disempower him and relegate his views (like my Sister here tried to do). This, as in the modern family, means he has no voice/influence and still expected to be the solution. The femininists can't have it both ways. They either give the men (here exclusively used for the good guys - not the toxic males) a platform to bring them back into the convo for effective solutions. (That is if females are after effective solutions). Also a big factor which is the elephant in the room is the nature of females is that they are attracted to dominant /alpha males. Hence their inclination to copulate and breed with the aggressive ( mentally and physically) males. (these thugs are soo exciting!). This means on the one hand the females want men to provide and protect whilst engaging toxic males in umjolo. This is a toxic mix. The male is hard-wired to compete for female attention...historically, the elders knew this. Hence a boy who wanted a wife had to prove his manhood (in a positive way). And then he was rewarded by having access to a wife and indeed wives. A no-good male was shunned by society and couldn't reproduce (after his kind). This kept unruly males to a minimum. In addition, a lot of times their energies were harnessed in the army or other dangerous pursuits... where they either became heroes or met their demise . In short, society had a way of managing toxic males...( For the good of all.) Toxic females (omazakhela or home-wreckers) were shunned and labeled in the community. This reduced their numbers. Why this is relevant is because a lot of incentives (for positive behaviour) have been removed.( And a lot of disincentives for toxic behaviour have been removed.) Being an upstanding man gives you less reward today than at any point in history. Women will spend their best (most appealing and fertilile years) with bad boys. This encourages toxic males and discourages good men who feel unrewarded. (Understanding that females are the prize in any specie.)- you then get resentment and bad behaviour/ acting out) Also no man enjoys raising another male's kids. Women need to change their mindset, reward good /positive men, shun toxic males. Men need to stand up, demand to be the solution and remove toxic males from the community /and culture. That is the ONLY way to protect the vulnerable in society. *predators target the physically weak first in any setting. Hence good men need to be recognised, given prominence and respect. And women have to teach their daughters to exclusively mate and have offspring with these good and positive role models. Teach sons to take responsibility (and stop fawning over badly behaved little 'kings' ) Women have the power to shape the next generation...they need to use it wisely. * We have take into account the nature and make-up of the genders and formulate solutions which are in tune with nature. That will help help to change the trajectory for the next generation.*Please realise these are tough conversations and require tough solutions. We will only see the change we require if and when we are ready for them.
The best solution. 🙏
It would really be nice to c both men and women working together and be solutions driven, instead of being riled up by the propaganda machine to fight and hate one another to cause division both socially and economically.
Fully agreed 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I disagree, The world is built by men, not women. White men built planes , train and all other machinery to make their life as "White men" better. Whites are intentionally lowering their race to ensure only the best of the white "gene pool exist"(my theory) .The fact that black men cant come together and built something without entering women in it, says a lot .
@thabiso makuwa Penuel was the problem, not Mandisa. Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel in particular, instead Penuel decided to take things personally. It's like trying to speak to a white person about racism and she/he starts shouting that they are not racist or their ancestors did not own racism. WTF? There is a serious problem with GBV and rape in South Africa and men need to speak to other men to stop this nonsense. A woman can only raise a boy upto a certain point, South African men are behaving badly because they are being raised in homes where men are absent or irresponsible.
Penuel even started talking about hoochie ladies, not to mention the swearing. He's out of control. He needs to stop fake intellectualising and just get a show like podcast and chill.
@@Penuelism Penuel, thankyou for this conversation my brother. One thing I will say, I won't say much, BUT IT'S HARD TO BR A MAN IN THIS SOCIETY, I GUARANTEE YOU BRO. MOST OF US TRY BY ALL MEANS TO BE GOOD MEN AND CITIZENS. WE LOOK AFTER OUR WIVES AND CHILDREN WELL, BUT THIS TOXIC FERMINISM IS BUSY TEARING US APPART LIKE NOTHING YOU'VE EVER SEEN. Why must I carry anther person's sin whom I don't even know, never even met. How do I confront that one against his behavior if I don't know him? All the men I know in my circular are good guys, they're not rapists and abusers. So where do we start looking for these bad guys so they can be dealt with? Otherwise good guys are gonna end up being easy targets for crimes they didn't commit!!
I think pen needs a host on this show...someone to ask questions and keep the debate hearable...I think pen has lot of things to say so is Mandisa ...
nice and heated can't wait for part two and for Andile Mngxitama Vs Penuel the black pen debate...
Mandisa is forcing her views on Pen. She is okay with misquoting him. That is a huge problem. She has good points and she makes a lot of sense. But she is emotional and selective. That makes her hard to listen to.
@7eventh Day Penuel was the problem, not Mandisa. Mandisa was speaking about men in general, not Penuel in particular, instead Penuel decided to take things personally. It's like trying to speak to a white person about racism and she/he starts shouting that they are not racist or their ancestors did not own racism. WTF? There is a serious problem with GBV and rape in South Africa and men need to speak to other men to stop this nonsense. A woman can only raise a boy upto a certain point, South African men are behaving badly because they are being raised in homes where men are absent or irresponsible.
@@lekis5975 please man you're saying the same thing over and over.
@@m.x.refrigxolani8365 I was responding to different people.
Remember this 🚩 -shame, insults, guilt and the need to be right. Once u pick that up run the B will make u miserable sooner or later.
@@m.x.refrigxolani8365 Thanks for trying, its a lost cause though IDEOLOGY has taken over. Might as well convince a WALL.
The picture quality of this video is amazing 🔥🔥🔥and the backdrop is hot, the sound is echoed though…. ❤️
Dankie Penuel... She became very defensive when the child abuse and child killing question was brought up. Whenever I aske feminists this question I get the same reaction.
Feminist bring nothing but emotional argument . I will never lower myself to speak to such creatures
@Lunga Pakkies She didn't become defensive, she said it shouldn't turn into whataboutism? The issue at hand was GBV, rape, not child abuse and killing children. Child abuse and killing children are serous issues and should not be CONFLATED with GBV and rape.
@@lekis5975 fair point. but From what I understand Penuel was arguing about the idea that men should take collective responsibilities of GBV and rape where women would never do the same about child abuse and killings.
@@lungapakkies7691 If you listen to the conversation, somewhere along the way, Sis Mandisa admitted that she would be ready to take collective responsibility, for the atrocities committed by women, in as far as looking for a solution. She added, that taking collective responsibility is not an admission of guilty, instead it is the equivalent of entering into a commitment to bring about change by any means necessary.
In the African culture, at a certain age, the boys were handed over to the care of the father. Reason being, only a man, can teach a boy how to be a man. Women can talk all they want, but in order for serious change to take place, men must lead the discourse. Only a a man, can raise a boy/man!
However Sis Mandisa says that the argument that men should take collective responsibility is only the start of the conversation. Perhaps we should let her unfold this line of thought, perhaps we could come to some sort of consensus. Perhaps.
Well said, Penuel jumped on Mandisa and sullied the waters pretty early on, and anyone who is intimidated by women decided Mandisa was wrong. To be honest, if I was Mandisa I would not come back to this platform again.
Otherwise thank you Penuel for defending good men
Always... I'm all about defending good men and good women. We need to unite and fight bad people. ✊🏽❤️
Supposed "good men" only good at defending themselves and their inability to call each other out. But will never defend their own black women! Totally sick society and mindsets 🤞
@@clipzovid99 rightly so
@@clipzovid99 🧢
@@Star-hg1kt the sad reality... But most men are not in touch with reality anyway...
Open minded people too do have heated arguements but one thing about such arguements is that theres always something to take from one another even thought it may not mean you agree with each other at that time, thats what it means to be strong minded
5 minutes into the podcast and I can already tell this lady likes listening to herself.
That’s the problem with misogynistic men, you always have a problem with women that know more than you.
True.
This is a bit too graphic for me because I am very sensitive. While we advocate for our voices to being heard may we pray for the power to engage. We are emotional beings but again we need to put aside emotions when its time to dialogue so we come up with real solutions 🙌
I have been havin this conversation of how good men have been silenced and isolated in this current societies. Societie have grown to assume that women can be empowered by diminishing the men in the men, and this has left men from low socio economic levels without voice but victims of both these toxic men and this toxic feminism. I think we should speak of Feminist Anxiety
On point!!! The "sweet man" now has two dilemmas. 1) Feminism 2) Toxic musculinity. Therz no where to hide.!!!
I Love this woman ,she’s so poise ,calm and collected ..very smart and eloquent…Pen is always coming from a Fighting point of view and defence perspective..Listen to understand sometimes …
What lol? Sis Mandisa was constantly putting words in Penuel's mouth, for the most part she was emotional but she did make valid points
I like her and I think she can lead because she is brave, and that braveness is the braveness that natured us when our fathers where absence.
She would be a horrible leader,she has no ears.
And Look where that leadership got us ….
'Clash of the choir' in Braam HQ lead her here.😄
One red bull, one kraal. 🤣
Loving the RAW conversation but wish bother sides were willing to meet each other halfway. I hope we continue to have these conversations in our circles and AT HOME.
Pen this is not the virtual mkuku we can't have someone talking for 10min alone and expecting not to be disagreed with.