White Water Swims and Throw Bag Rescues
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Some ideas and thoughts on swimming in white water, self rescue and the use of throw bags.
WARNING: SWIMMING IN WHITE WATER AND IN PARTICULAR USING ROPE HAS REAL ELEMENTS OF RISK. PRACTISING THESE WITH EXPERIENCED FOLK OR ATTENDING A COURSE IS RECOMMENDED.
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Many thanks to Dave Luke for his assistance with filming and techniques.
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My website: www.RayGoodwin.com
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I appreciate that you don’t waist time trying to chat me up or going down none relevant rabbit holes. Clear concise info transferral helps the student retain. Your visuals are right on target.
Thank you Don, appreciated. I try hard to keep the videos to relevant and useful information. Cheers
I have watched a number of videos on swift water rescue and using throw bags. Various sources. Yours is by far the best one I have seen.
Wow. Thank you so much for those appreciative comments. Feedback is always valued and its fantastic when it is so positive.
I would like to reinforce the need to keep your bum up. Years ago in a slalom on the Washburn I swam and went over a small drop feet first and hit my coccyx on a rock and was totally winded. I suspect I broke it. I can still vividly remember grasping some grass at the side in desperation unable to breath but seeing people walking on the path seemingly totally unaware of my situation. No approach is totally foolproof and I was probably unlucky but it did concentrate my mind on the need to keep my bum up. If we lift our heads to see what's happening our bums drop. Great video though. Thanks.
Really useful comment. I know of a fireman doing the same while training at MEM on the Dee. It is a real risk.
Well done educational video. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Glad it was of help
That looks fun.
Generally fun in training but pays off in the real life situations. If means folk are better prepared. But here there is a fun element
Wow amazing to view and rewatch.. interesting.
Glad you think so! Thank you
Thanks for teaching me Ray. Great work.
No problem. Thank you for commenting
Thanks for this informative and thorough video.
Glad it was helpful! appreciated
Outstanding Ray. Really concise and logical.
As ever thank you.
Very interesting video thank you
Glad you enjoyed it and found it interesting
Brilliant as ever. Thanks.
appreciated. Thanks
Excellent Ray (best one yet), especially the handsome guy doing the demos and the photos from working together in the Ardeche.
Wow, thanks! It turned out to be a hard one to edit and I kept stalling on it. So glad you liked it and many thanks for your demos and help. Appreciated.
There was one good looking bloke. But I’ve never been to the Ardeche?
@@MrMjt888 About time you had a trip down there. Anyway fight it out boys over the good looking bit. 🤣
terrific video
Thank you sir! Appreciated
Great stuff
Thank you.
Important stuff Ray thanks. I don't paddle without a throwline to hand. Apart from the rescue uses you have mentioned, it is useful for tethering canoes in tidal waters where your painter just ain't long enough.
Thank you. Yep it does well on that tidal use. Keep well
Fantastic video once again Ray; great resource to refer back to.
Thanks again! Appreciate the comments.
Great video Ray really well explained
Glad it was helpful! Thank you.
Excellent stuff once again. Thank you!
My pleasure!
Another great video. Thanks, Ray.
Very welcome
Thank you Ray.
You are most welcome
Great video Ray. I notice you doing it, but might be worth mentioning as a tip for throwing a rope accurately is pointing at the swimmer with your non-throwing hand finger.
Keep up the great work
Good point! I had meant to mention it but ........ Good reminder
Valuable information. Thanks Ray!
You are welcome
Brilliant video, Ray. Great work.
Many thanks!
Great job thanks.👍🇨🇦
No problem 👍 Thanks
Thank you, that’s a marvellous video and I learned a few great tips there. 👍
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you Ray, i enjoyed that one.
Glad to hear it
Another outstanding vid Ray, and on a crucial topic. Thanks for sharing. atb
Glad you enjoyed it. Wish I had had more time to collect other bits of film but in the end went with the ideas I had.
More great info Ray. And info I nearly needed recently.
Thanks Phil. Appreciated as always.
Love your videos Ray (from Aus). May I add a few observations as a retired emergency responder Swiftwater rescue instructor of many years? Your point about the handle (loop) at the end of the line; we teach that a very small loop (large enough only for a carabiner to clip and not for a hand to fit through) is the best setup. On a benefit v risk basis, especially in a team environment, the option to be able to quickly clip another bag, or anything really, is more important. With a small loop the risk is then limited to an acceptable level, considering that all our rescue technicians carry an externally mounted, fixed-blade rescue knife (no folding knives). One other observation is the recommendation for the casualty to pass the rescue line under the weak side shoulder. I know that passing the line OVER the weak side (opposite side to the rescuer) is an accepted and well founder teaching point, but I worry that if this technique was used in anything more than a very moderate flow it would roll the casualty over, face down in the water, where any ferry angle advantage would be lost and there would be the potential for them to release their grip. It would have been nice to see the ferry angle created by correct line position (opposite shoulder) demonstrated in the video. Sorry for the waffle 😂
Thank you for such a detailed response/analysis, really helpful stuff there. Yep totally agree with the small loop and that is in place on all the Palm throw bags as well as my Rescue 3 bag. A very good system. The under the shoulder technique works extremely well including in very strong flows and I have never seen a tendency to rotate the swimmer, in fact it tends to surf the person higher in the water and so they are more able to hold on. The downside is that it takes a few seconds extra to implement and in some situations there isn't even that time. Yep re ferrying: it was a working day so it is not always possible to spend the extra time and getting the viewpoint to show everything although I try hard...maybe that is one I should not have missed. Quite a few of my videos are opportunist in that I take advantage of a working day with a group, the videos make so little money that it is often hard to justify extra days videoing (that video has earned a total of £17). But keep commentating it is all useful food for thought for me and extra information for others. Cheers, Ray
@@RayGoodwinCanoe Ray, noting Greg's point about a small loop, on my sea kayak towline I have a small spliced, not knotted, loop for the crab on the end. If I take off the crab it's clean enough not to snag. Maybe a small spliced loop in the end of the line is the ideal compromise? Chris.
@@zerofeather783 The best throw bag manufacturers put a very small loop in the end of either tape (Palm) or knotted for others. On my sea kayak I would have no problem splicing a tow system but not on a throw bag. As an instructor/guide/ex-mountaineer I am competent and qualified to put a knot in the end of the rope but I am not so with a splice. If it were to fail using it with a 4:1 pulley system I would have no justification: I just don't know enough about spices. It's a great idea but I am wary of doing it myself. Great discussion and points though. Good stuff
Excellent Video!
Thank you very much!
Excellent video Ray - I think this is one of your best ones yet!
I particularly liked the initial helmet cam perspective going down the rapid.
It’s all in there - and it was great to see you doing dry land drills which in my experience despite getting me laughed at on centres, I’ve found crucial.
One thing you did talk about was packing the rope back into the bag. Perhaps you may mention what happens if you
1) miss with first throw (re coil?/2nd bag?/2nd thrower
2) get a “birds nest”/tangle on the bag.
Once again a superb demo with lots of thought provoking ideas and skills to sort out in the paddlers head and get sorted before the incident occurs.
Cheers
Tony
Thank for all of that Tony. It is always a hard one to know what to include. Certainly editing this gave me lots of problem in the creativity and order of things. In the end decisions were made and I needed to finish and get it out there. Yep it will be interesting to put together a more 'situational' video at some point. Regards
love you Ray
Love you too Daz
Nice one Ray
It would be useful to talk over what situations would have you needing to set up these team rescues. Or when you might do any kind of safety set up.
Noted! Ah the subject of a Canoe Leader Training.
@@RayGoodwinCanoe Nice 2 secs of me. At this rate I’m going to be ahead of Jason in the fame stakes 😀
Thanks
You are most welcome
Once again Ray you excel with your knowledge and expertise, this is not a situation I would like to be in but can happen, as a beginner I'm looking to do more next year (be afraid 😨) looking forward to the spay and hope to see you before that, hope everyone is well and safe 😷😷👍,
Ps, the book is brilliant, well laid out, and something you can flick through if you only have ten minutes, brilliant job 👍👍👍❤☕
Thank you for all of that. See you next year.
good video thank you pointed out most things the only thing i noticed he didn't was just past the 5 min mark i think 5.50 and at 8:30 someone grabbed the back of a BA to add support
Correct and thank you for your comments. Yep I should have pointed that our verbally as well as just showing it. Good point.
Good advice as usual Ray. Im living in Germany now and the HF bags are like you say have a big loop at the bottom of the bag and a big loop in the rope inside and was the first thing I did was to Re tie the bag inside and make the loop smaller plus remove the plastic tube. You would be amazed at the thousands of people that take to the water in all sorts of craft when the weather is nice and not one Throw bag nor PFD anywhere. Kids as young as 8 with adults on rivers such as the Isar with no PDF in rubber rings with parents drinking beer some have no paddles only sticks. Its a country where many die on lakes and rivers here but no one learns a lesson. I'm usually in my Canoe but really feel over dressed with all my gear and safety equipment. I just bought a new Throw bag " Palm pro 25m " as im heading to Austria to Canoe the Drau etc but what's your view on the big plastic balls on the shock cord? I'm thinking these would be sore if someone gets hit on the face. Keep the Videos coming Stay safe, Cheers
Hi Stuart, good to hear from you. I do like the HF bag, the Weasel being one of my favourites, but with the modifications you detailed. Yep re safety: I always dread the first Bank Holiday here in the Uk. If it is a hot one we see lots of novices out on Llyn Tegid (Bala) in an assortment of craft but in shorts, T-shirts and no PDFs but the water is still winter cold. The issue of cold shock is so real. I think the only reason we don't normally have fatalities is that there are a good number of working professionals out there including safety boats (for their own work). Anyway keep well.
Brilliant Ray. You have a great teaching style! Any tips for what to do if you miss first time? Particularly in open water? Thanks
On a river if you miss and the target is static (on a rock maybe) then you have plenty of time and can use another bag or use coils (need to do a video). If it is critical have another person downstream incase you miss. On a lake then do lap coils over the hand as you pull the bag back in and then part fill the bag with water which help the throw.
Another excellent training video, thanks Ray. Can you give some guidelines please on how to decide what length throw line to use. It clearly depends on what paddling you do and where but what criteria are most important?
Really I need to do another video. But the shortest I carry is 18 metres and I have a couple at 20. I always pull some of the rope out so I have something I can play with. So 18m of 8mm is my go to bag for throwing. I then use the heavier and thicker 20m bags as back up for throws but my go to if I have to do any z drags etc. Hope that helps.
@@RayGoodwinCanoe Yes it does, thanks Ray. Mine is 15m and due to be replaced. 18m it is!
Hi Ray, now back at home following our trip with the Explorer Scouts. Glad I had the opportunity to say hello in person - an unexpected bonus. Another great video - would appreciate your advice on a question that arises during practice with throwlines on sheltered water, especially for people starting out with throwlines - what advice do you have for managing 2nd throws (other than a 2nd bag). Would you re-coil the rope and split for a two-handed throw, how about filling the bag with water to aid distance?
Good to say hello. I tend to use a combination of a split two handed throw plus filling the bag with water. Take every advantage you can.
Thanks Ray, great stuff! Having never been in any serious emergencies on the river, I do wonder how often there's time to plan and set up rescue strategies vs. just throwing the rope; I imagine sometimes you've only got mere seconds to react?
Sometimes that is true. Other times you may set up before running a rapid (more usual in kayak on harder rivers). Also the number of times I have had to rescue someone from a rock in the middle of the river. Hope that helps
We're can I find information on theses courses with you Ray
The White Water Safety and Rescue courses I rarely run nowadays but lots of other British Canoeing providers do. I will put up a spring date on my website.