The lighter weight of the EDS and the lack of a system to tuck lower pulley cage on impact doesn’t forebode well for the durability of the wheel top derailleur during impact. There’s a reason why parts rated for enduro and DH are heavier than their XC counterpart. As such it’s probably ill advised to equip the wheelstop on harsh terrain where rock strikes or crashing if more likely.
This was an enlightening video, Jared. I have been thinking about upgrading my derailleur and shifter after upgrading my cassette and crankset. I was thinking I'd go wireless, but I'm gonna go with an XT shifter and derailleur. That will leave me with money to upgrade my suspension or wheelset next.
@@tylermather7106 Wheels and suspension make such a huge difference. Go with Hunt wheels if you want a great upgrade at an affordable price alnk.to/87ZwPfk
@@Markozzy agree and thank you! I’m also hearing a lot of positive feedback about Wheeltop customer support and replacement parts, which makes me think I should have kept the EDS on my bike lol
I think most of the differences are minuscule between the two systems. As you said, the biggest and most important factor to determine is the durability. Secondarily, customers service when there is a problem. I’m really torn if the electronic aspect is worth the high potential of aggregation. Great video on the comparison. Keep it going!
Why can't you use the AXS on a 11 speed? When 11 speed is just one extra cog right? For some reason Sram hasn't added micro adjustment for each cog and speed selection. Whoch I think is silly.
Hi there I purchased the wheel top upgrade kit for my mtb and I'm really happy with the shifting I did however snap the bolt that attaches the derailleur to the hanger. It's made of cast aluminium so it's not very strong but the supplier has sent me spares so I think parts aren't an issue
No battery removal on EDS is a no no for me .Everyone knows how finicky batteries can be also having to charge it on bike sucks. AXS has proven to be tough enuf for me . Got my derailleur for 325 new from authorized dealer already had shifter .Works well with shimano cassettes as well.
What kind of support, if any, for the wheeltop? We all know and love a good reputation for quality so how's the wheeltop reputation in their home market?
No idea but things might change, Wheeltop bought a majority stake in Rotor, which is a well known brand. So this probably means they will change things, have better distribution. And more local support I guess. But I think the product is flawed. I won't get it. But I won't be surprised if it gets a redesign. And improvements. I don't think this system is ready
@@danieltejeda1477 check out the comment from @yanuk818. He had some good experiences with Wheeltop. I’m excited about what @mtbboy1993 said. All good stuff 👍
2:10 most people don't need it, but I need it. I had to go back to mechanical on my shopping bike, I had to turn off the clutch, but my thumb misaligment issue causes pain hurts a bit, but when I shift it can hurt horribly when it misaligned during a shift. But even with the SLX m7100 lighter action, I went for it instead of xt cus it has more resistance, and even with clutch turned off it's not optimal. But after test shifts my thumb still was feeling weird and fatigued. I need something to replace Archer D1x trail, as they are going out of business. I loved the ergonomics, no pain during shifting supe right remote action.
But no spare batteries, so no Thx. Also the remote isn't matchmaker so that's absurd mistake by them too. It's a flawed product. I currently have 11 speed Garbaruk cassette, i might buy AXS, but don't like I won't be able to select 11 speed and adjust each gear. But osme run AXS with 11 speed. But it means you have an extra gear. But it has limit screws so can limit it so won't overshift. But silly of Sram to not have the features people are asking for.🤦
@@JaredHoff I love the Archer D1X Trail paddle remote, so I want something as similar to this as possible. It has a super light action paddle that rocks up and down, ergonomics are superb. I remember some complained about Sram remote, and it got a redesign, then the new one came with Transmission, it doesn't work for some. I prefer a paddle remote instead of buttons. but at least the buttons are placed in a similar way a paddle would rock. Still better than mechanical for my thumb I guess.
I have both. Unfortunately I didn't get any of them sent to me free 😅. Same here, I love the EDS buttons more. Shifting quality wise both are the same to me. SRAM shifts quieter on my system. Setup wise, both are as easy, it works out of the box for a straight derailleur hanger. Regarding wheeltop support, I crashed my EDS within warranty and it was still working for that week, after a jet wash, it stopped the following week, I guess water ingressed with the high pressure wash. Contacted wheeltop, spoke to their CS over wechat, after some simple troubleshooting, they sent a replacement immediately. Haven't needed to test SRAM's CS yet and hope I never have to 😅 PS: The previous and current EDS went through lots of jet wash and it still works.
The GX AXS uses pogo pins on the derailleur and this video scares me the day it happens. th-cam.com/video/SLZc2nM3VSE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=yWitjBKRGvQCjdcn While the pogo pins are on the charging cable of the EDS, I can get a replacement easily!
@@davidpisoa5288 Isn’t that geared more towards road bikes or e-bikes? Not sure why Shimano doesn’t make a better SRAM comparison. Probably shady patent laws stopping them.
I hade the first gen axs on a bike a few years ago, always worked, took a beating. I bought another when it was on sale recently. I also bought an eBike that came with gen.2 Axs aka type-T, and I don't feel its any better, shifting wise. Maybe worse. It seem to not always want to shift, which is super annyoing, like its using some software to check rpm/cadence or its maybe just dead on arrival. I don't get why they removed the hanger, its so much cheaper to replace, than having to replace the bottom cage of new t-type. I would because of price and the hanger probably buy the old axs over the new. Only thing is that the new t-type should shift better under load, so if I can ave money on buying less cassettes, it might be worth it.
@@applicablerobot you’re probably right. I was working with what I had. That’s why big sponsored channels like Loam Wolf make better comparisons at times 👍 I’ll do better…
dag ive had mine with the removable battery for two years now, I'm starting to see all these videos suddenly hitting TH-cam and wondering what took so long
@@philhunt1442 Wheeltop is continually trying to upgrade the EDS. They saw this video and told me they’re going to use it to try and make improvements on the next model.
I've used the Sram AXS on Shimano and sram drivetrains, mine has been super quick and smooth.... 100% that gx was not setup correctly.... Voids the video instantly....
your b adjust was not set right on the sram. not saying it would have been better but your shifting was not right. I've used it for a couple years now and with that shifting something wasn't set right.
@@jdnims I love that it’s one piece and it was shifting good using my XT derailleur, but it has never shifted as well under load. Always have to stay light on the pedals when you shift, which I usually do anyway.
Lol... you trying to be safe on comparison thank you we see EDS shifts faster and better. There was a video comparing SRAM is the slowest in shifting compare to other brands.
Someone tested various drive trains for shift speed 8ncluding both analog and electronic shifting. E shifting was significantly slower. Gripshift the fastest with trigger shifting cable second fastest but the Transmission system was seconds slower because it waits until the stars align and you get a perfect shift which is great! You just have to be patient. I have cable and zero interest 8n electronic shifting. I like to feel the shift. I know sometimes it rough but that's on me.. Tempted to go gripshift. I had the last Gen of Sachs twist shifters and it flew through fears. Always thought the fear of unwanted shifts to be over exaggerated. I never had an issue. It's very easy to rest your hand slightly on it and do quick shifts tightly sliding over. It quickly becomes instinct and the time spent e ecuting a shift, any shift, is a fraction that of a trigger. I especially like them when you need to dump a bunch either way. One quick spin and done. No click click click click click or having to do 2 pushes... It's also smoother because the der8does it in one fell swoop. It moves the chain in one go. Just writing this has me sold. The new ones have actual bearings etc too. The 9nly design weakness is the integrated grip design, junk. Also, you don't need them so long. They should be half that length. You just don't need to have that much to twist. I'd be good with an inch.
I was skeptical at first, but after year of enduro riding with Shimano Di2 its the best thing ever. No more endless deraileur tuning, no more bent hangers/deraileurs, it just works.
Cable= no battery required but it's a pain in the ass to have semi decent shifting (bent hangar cuz mostly everyone's is bent) Electronic= abra Kadab- oops my battery died.
I don't like the fact that sram patented (yes they did) external batteries for electronic derailleur, that patent shouldn't have been granted, the EDS with the removable battery exists but they can't ship it out of china 🥲
@@LaurentiusTriarius for sure 👍 Luckily Wheeltop is setting up U.S. manufacturing. They just had me update the links in my video description. I’m excited to keep working with them in the future.
@@JaredHoff I hope they can find some sort of workaround a trap with a sliding battery might be enough looking at the patent... Anyway I truly wish them luck since we need more competitive pricing in this category ☺️
The lighter weight of the EDS and the lack of a system to tuck lower pulley cage on impact doesn’t forebode well for the durability of the wheel top derailleur during impact. There’s a reason why parts rated for enduro and DH are heavier than their XC counterpart.
As such it’s probably ill advised to equip the wheelstop on harsh terrain where rock strikes or crashing if more likely.
@@Alm8hoorOW You make a good point.
Nice work, looking forward to your long term testing, EDS does have the edge in terms of price and adaptability..
@@cybervagrant I agree but was super surprise how good the EDS felt and performed. Glad to have tested it and will do long term videos later 👍
This was an enlightening video, Jared. I have been thinking about upgrading my derailleur and shifter after upgrading my cassette and crankset. I was thinking I'd go wireless, but I'm gonna go with an XT shifter and derailleur. That will leave me with money to upgrade my suspension or wheelset next.
@@tylermather7106 Wheels and suspension make such a huge difference. Go with Hunt wheels if you want a great upgrade at an affordable price alnk.to/87ZwPfk
the wheel top seems the better option with price point i find sram a bit to excessive on price on certain items great comparison
@@Markozzy agree and thank you! I’m also hearing a lot of positive feedback about Wheeltop customer support and replacement parts, which makes me think I should have kept the EDS on my bike lol
I think most of the differences are minuscule between the two systems. As you said, the biggest and most important factor to determine is the durability. Secondarily, customers service when there is a problem. I’m really torn if the electronic aspect is worth the high potential of aggregation. Great video on the comparison. Keep it going!
@@butchl6403 thanks 🙏🏻
Why can't you use the AXS on a 11 speed? When 11 speed is just one extra cog right? For some reason Sram hasn't added micro adjustment for each cog and speed selection. Whoch I think is silly.
@@mtbboy1993 definitely silly. I think SRAM is focused on high-end MTBs and people who buy the $10,000 bikes 🤷🏼♂️
@@JaredHoff more people would buy it if they did. I might need to buy it anyway as I simply can't us mechanical shifting anymore.
Hi there I purchased the wheel top upgrade kit for my mtb and I'm really happy with the shifting I did however snap the bolt that attaches the derailleur to the hanger. It's made of cast aluminium so it's not very strong but the supplier has sent me spares so I think parts aren't an issue
@@grantchandler8294 nice to hear that customer service.
SRAM has a new rocker pod that provides really good tactile feel.
No battery removal on EDS is a no no for me .Everyone knows how finicky batteries can be also having to charge it on bike sucks. AXS has proven to be tough enuf for me . Got my derailleur for 325 new from authorized dealer already had shifter .Works well with shimano cassettes as well.
What kind of support, if any, for the wheeltop? We all know and love a good reputation for quality so how's the wheeltop reputation in their home market?
No idea but things might change, Wheeltop bought a majority stake in Rotor, which is a well known brand. So this probably means they will change things, have better distribution. And more local support I guess. But I think the product is flawed. I won't get it.
But I won't be surprised if it gets a redesign. And improvements. I don't think this system is ready
@@danieltejeda1477 check out the comment from @yanuk818. He had some good experiences with Wheeltop. I’m excited about what @mtbboy1993 said. All good stuff 👍
Great video. Off topic but what’s up with Zach’s grips?? Thanks
@@kevindavidson3655 He just put those grips on the bike and I’ll have to ask him why. He’s always upgrading his bikes and trying new things.
I have both, and the wheel top shifts much smoother than my GX with a Xx1 cassette and chain. The wheel top has a cheap zitto chain and cassettes.
@@trackar134 thanks for letting me know. I couldn’t believe how much better the Wheeltop shifted.
IT would be good to compare with Shimano Di2 also
2:10 most people don't need it, but I need it. I had to go back to mechanical on my shopping bike, I had to turn off the clutch, but my thumb misaligment issue causes pain hurts a bit, but when I shift it can hurt horribly when it misaligned during a shift. But even with the SLX m7100 lighter action, I went for it instead of xt cus it has more resistance, and even with clutch turned off it's not optimal. But after test shifts my thumb still was feeling weird and fatigued. I need something to replace Archer D1x trail, as they are going out of business. I loved the ergonomics, no pain during shifting supe right remote action.
@@mtbboy1993 Wheeltop EDS shifts so easy. You’d probably like it man.
But no spare batteries, so no Thx. Also the remote isn't matchmaker so that's absurd mistake by them too. It's a flawed product. I currently have 11 speed Garbaruk cassette, i might buy AXS, but don't like I won't be able to select 11 speed and adjust each gear. But osme run AXS with 11 speed. But it means you have an extra gear. But it has limit screws so can limit it so won't overshift. But silly of Sram to not have the features people are asking for.🤦
@@JaredHoff I love the Archer D1X Trail paddle remote, so I want something as similar to this as possible. It has a super light action paddle that rocks up and down, ergonomics are superb.
I remember some complained about Sram remote, and it got a redesign, then the new one came with Transmission, it doesn't work for some.
I prefer a paddle remote instead of buttons. but at least the buttons are placed in a similar way a paddle would rock. Still better than mechanical for my thumb I guess.
I would go with the least expensive. Will you be doing a long term review of the hunt wheels?
@@jf8534 Yes 👍 Loving them so far.
I have both. Unfortunately I didn't get any of them sent to me free 😅.
Same here, I love the EDS buttons more. Shifting quality wise both are the same to me. SRAM shifts quieter on my system.
Setup wise, both are as easy, it works out of the box for a straight derailleur hanger.
Regarding wheeltop support, I crashed my EDS within warranty and it was still working for that week, after a jet wash, it stopped the following week, I guess water ingressed with the high pressure wash. Contacted wheeltop, spoke to their CS over wechat, after some simple troubleshooting, they sent a replacement immediately.
Haven't needed to test SRAM's CS yet and hope I never have to 😅
PS: The previous and current EDS went through lots of jet wash and it still works.
@@yanuk818 nice 👍 thanks for the feedback. Great to hear that long term review.
The GX AXS uses pogo pins on the derailleur and this video scares me the day it happens.
th-cam.com/video/SLZc2nM3VSE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=yWitjBKRGvQCjdcn
While the pogo pins are on the charging cable of the EDS, I can get a replacement easily!
@@yanuk818 nice 👍
EDS support up to 13speed
But i like the old version EDS its come with 2 small removable battery
@@METEORA_47 The EDS supports 3-14 speeds, Minimum Sprocket 10T, Maximum Sprocket 52T.
Great video dude.
What about the new shimano xt di2 ?
@@davidpisoa5288 Isn’t that geared more towards road bikes or e-bikes? Not sure why Shimano doesn’t make a better SRAM comparison. Probably shady patent laws stopping them.
@@JaredHoff i dont know but the new xt looks good .
I'm riding with shimano gears and brakes for more then 9 years
Does the wheel top ap show the battery life?
@@robwales5987 yes
I hade the first gen axs on a bike a few years ago, always worked, took a beating. I bought another when it was on sale recently. I also bought an eBike that came with gen.2 Axs aka type-T, and I don't feel its any better, shifting wise. Maybe worse. It seem to not always want to shift, which is super annyoing, like its using some software to check rpm/cadence or its maybe just dead on arrival. I don't get why they removed the hanger, its so much cheaper to replace, than having to replace the bottom cage of new t-type.
I would because of price and the hanger probably buy the old axs over the new.
Only thing is that the new t-type should shift better under load, so if I can ave money on buying less cassettes, it might be worth it.
@@erichbachman7363 thanks for the info man. It’s always good to get those real reviews. So much hype around that T-type
Can't compare clutches using chain slap on two different bikes since the suspension dynamics impact this
@@applicablerobot you’re probably right. I was working with what I had. That’s why big sponsored channels like Loam Wolf make better comparisons at times 👍 I’ll do better…
Eds is compatible to UDH or non uDH?
@@eduardomorona7666 both! Standard derailleur bolt that screws on to your bike’s derailleur.
dag ive had mine with the removable battery for two years now, I'm starting to see all these videos suddenly hitting TH-cam and wondering what took so long
@@philhunt1442 Wheeltop is continually trying to upgrade the EDS. They saw this video and told me they’re going to use it to try and make improvements on the next model.
Why the hell I need it. M8100 works perfectly
@@zdravo4 you’re not wrong 👍
I've used the Sram AXS on Shimano and sram drivetrains, mine has been super quick and smooth....
100% that gx was not setup correctly....
Voids the video instantly....
@@MrSupermugen I hear ya. Sorry for leaving that impression on you. I’ll do better
your b adjust was not set right on the sram. not saying it would have been better but your shifting was not right. I've used it for a couple years now and with that shifting something wasn't set right.
@@jdnims I was wondering if it was that or just the Garbaruk Cassette 🤔
@@JaredHoff that I can't answer never used one, but have contemplated them. Recommend them?
@@jdnims I love that it’s one piece and it was shifting good using my XT derailleur, but it has never shifted as well under load. Always have to stay light on the pedals when you shift, which I usually do anyway.
Seeing the design flaw with the sram, I know to stay well clear.
@@Ukfamine2025 I need to adjust the SRAM and try to get it shifting better but was still surprised how much better the EDS felt and performed…
@@JaredHoff the sram suffer with a corrosion problem on the contact pins.
Lol... you trying to be safe on comparison thank you we see EDS shifts faster and better. There was a video comparing SRAM is the slowest in shifting compare to other brands.
@@marklouieadame I could definitely feel that.
Someone tested various drive trains for shift speed 8ncluding both analog and electronic shifting. E shifting was significantly slower. Gripshift the fastest with trigger shifting cable second fastest but the Transmission system was seconds slower because it waits until the stars align and you get a perfect shift which is great! You just have to be patient.
I have cable and zero interest 8n electronic shifting. I like to feel the shift. I know sometimes it rough but that's on me..
Tempted to go gripshift.
I had the last Gen of Sachs twist shifters and it flew through fears. Always thought the fear of unwanted shifts to be over exaggerated. I never had an issue. It's very easy to rest your hand slightly on it and do quick shifts tightly sliding over.
It quickly becomes instinct and the time spent e ecuting a shift, any shift, is a fraction that of a trigger. I especially like them when you need to dump a bunch either way. One quick spin and done. No click click click click click or having to do 2 pushes... It's also smoother because the der8does it in one fell swoop. It moves the chain in one go.
Just writing this has me sold.
The new ones have actual bearings etc too.
The 9nly design weakness is the integrated grip design, junk.
Also, you don't need them so long. They should be half that length. You just don't need to have that much to twist. I'd be good with an inch.
I was skeptical at first, but after year of enduro riding with Shimano Di2 its the best thing ever. No more endless deraileur tuning, no more bent hangers/deraileurs, it just works.
@@rudozoltan heck yeah 👍
Cable= no battery required but it's a pain in the ass to have semi decent shifting (bent hangar cuz mostly everyone's is bent)
Electronic= abra Kadab- oops my battery died.
Vs XT mechanical....
@@Rawkus919 But then I have to fish that cable back through my bike 😥 LOL
How ridiculous for Sram to patent a removable battery. I wont buy one just because of that. F em.
Triple manufacturer drivetrain will never shift smooth
@@andymtb3212 the EDS was shifting good 👍
I don't like the fact that sram patented (yes they did) external batteries for electronic derailleur, that patent shouldn't have been granted, the EDS with the removable battery exists but they can't ship it out of china 🥲
@@LaurentiusTriarius for sure 👍 Luckily Wheeltop is setting up U.S. manufacturing. They just had me update the links in my video description. I’m excited to keep working with them in the future.
@@JaredHoff I hope they can find some sort of workaround a trap with a sliding battery might be enough looking at the patent... Anyway I truly wish them luck since we need more competitive pricing in this category ☺️