@@vchacko07 It makes me smile to see all the Mallu Ex-Christians in these comments 😊. My deconversion journey is here: I grew up in a Mallu Christian family (Mar Thoma, if anyone cares). I always had a lot of questions, but I would always accept the words of my parents or grandparents or priests as true. One of the earliest questions I had as a child was: If there is a good man who is a Hindu, will he go to hell? Or will he go to heaven? My grandmother assured me that if they are good people, then because Jesus is loving, he will allow them into heaven. I was always interested in science and took a lot of interest in dinosaurs and paleontology. Subsequently, this made me very interested in starting evolution. I was unable to reconcile evolution with the biblical creation narrative. But my parents raised me to have a scientific outlook and so my conclusion was to say that "The Bible does not have to be taken literally. Rather, I can accept certain contradictory parts as incorrect or poetic." By this time, I had already read the Bible once cover to cover. Over time, my questions switched over to social issues... I started questioning why the Bible would condemn queer folks and I began questioning the morality of the book. I decided to look for evidence of the claims of the Bible and I read it for a second time cover to cover but this time, as a doubting Christian. I did not find the evidence I was looking for and so I went looking for stuff online. It was there that I found Seth and AronRa along with a large atheist community. After listening with an open mind, I decided to accept the label of atheist until I received sufficient evidence. My logic was: If Jesus was willing to give evidence to Doubting Thomas and to Paul, he would give me the evidence too. So far, I have received no evidence. I then read the Bible cover to cover one last time as an atheist, I have only opened it for reference since then. But I am now an open atheist.
@@thepurplebox380 @Varghese Chacko My journey went from Pentecostal (fundamentalist) to Universalist (Christian position where all will be saved, regardless of what philosophy they subscribe to, to Episcopaian (liberal Christianity) to Panentheist (Advaita Vedanta, Zen Buddhism) to where I am now. I have shared my story here with a friend th-cam.com/video/0cTrPd6kR_w/w-d-xo.html
I had been very gradually deconstructing for nearly a decade and had recently come VERY close before I freaked out and temporarily paused the process. Regardless on where one falls on the mythicist/ historicist spectrum(I personally think the point is moot), it was actually a Richard Carrier lecture that autoplayed on TH-cam that took me the rest of the way. I spent the next few days to a week in a sort of dissociative state trying to figure out where I fell. I spent a day as a basic abrahamic theist, then a few days as a deist, and then a few weeks as an agnostic before I settled on atheist and never looked back. So grateful that the Richard Carrier lecture played that night and made everything fall into place for me. It's been a little over a year, and I'm about to turn 40. I cringe when I think about how I used to be, but I'm very glad for the overall healing process I went through, because it was necessary for my mental wellbeing to deconstruct the way I did.
I’m so glad you’re now on the side of reason! Better late than never. I used to be partly agnostic and mostly ignorant about religion but Sam Harris’s essay on an atheist manifesto got me to stand firmly and take the atheist position. Haven’t budged since. And Seth’s podcast was the first one I subscribed to.
Yep , he’s right up there with Satan himself, in fact Satan said that he is going to retire early because Seth is doing such a great job of spreading his lies for him
That weight of community and social belonging that keeps Christians attached to their faith is a huge element. I know that is probably one of the things I missed the most when I deconverted. I currently have no community like that as a non-believer and it is noticeably more lonely and you feel more isolated. The social pressure to be a Christian in the USA is still immense.
It really must be terrible to go through that. But there are communities all over your country. American Atheists, FFRF, and several more. Look them up. They have conventions and events regularly where you can meet many others like us.
Great discussion! Good content! I used to be a fundamentalist Christian, right-wing political nut for 30+ years. At one point, I used to even have church in my basement.
@@rationable It was a process over several years. It went from Pentecostal (fundamentalist) to Universalist (Christian position where all will be saved, regardless of what philosophy they subscribe to, to Episcopaian (liberal Christianity) to Panentheist (Advaita Vedanta, Zen Buddhism) to where I am now. If it piques your interest, I have shared my story here th-cam.com/video/0cTrPd6kR_w/w-d-xo.html
Mr Chanda - love your channel (just popped up). Would love to hear you on the latest cha cha cha between Trudeau and the Indian government. Best wishes to you and your channel.
Hi! I’m so glad you’re here and I’d love it if you stayed. I don’t delve into politics much since the perspectives can be a lot more complex than science. This situation is exactly that and I haven’t developed an opinion on the topic yet. The only thing I can say is that it’s odd and disappointing to see people who still want divisions when we should all be working towards unity.
Great conversation. If only the theists read their scriptures in a language they understand cover to cover, the penny will start to drop for many. But strangely there is huge inherent reluctance and no curiosity from practising believers to do that.
Athiesm will be the answer to humanitys greatest step to be human....you are so genuine original and truthfull....no it's or butts.....wish i could have the honour to spend 30 min with you....a dream of mine....
Include adopting some variation of humanism maybe? Atheism is just not believing in any gods. If atheism ever becomes the norm, the whole word becomes obsolete.
I really enjoyed this episode, Abhijit. Seth's done a lot of good work over the years. While listening, one thought led to another, and got this atheist thinking about some of the arguments theists use to defend the idea of divine omnipotence, and how ultimately none of them work. I'll have to go over an old philosophy of religion course I took years back to make sure I don't strawbot theists, but it seems as though theistic arguments aren't really as subtle or hard to debunk as apologists pretend. It seems a wee bit cynical to say this, but I think they do pretend this largely to stay in business.
Yes I think so too. Apologists like William L craig go into philosophical arguments and discussions meant to mislead and dodge rather than answer a straight question.
@@rationable I don't see any significant advantage of religion, apart from the community aspect that shouldn't require a belief. I do see disadvantages though, mainly related to the indoctrination and expulsion of rational critical thinking. It goes broader; I guess I could say that I am an anti-dogmatist, of which religion is a subset. What made me take a more polarized position is likely mostly viewing some of these apologist "debaters", and reading what fervent believers write. I've never seen or met people like that in real life, I think, but if religion can make you reason or think like that, and encourage such a tribal attitude, then it is something to be against. I'm one of those who sees most of mainstream religion, in the sense of a belief in a personified magic skydaddy type of deity rather than just spiritual "there-must-be-something-more-ism", as a mental disorder or delusion that happens to be approved and propagated by society. I honestly find it literally revulsive. Having written that, I stress that I am fervently in favor of anyone having the right to believe whatever they happen to believe! I respect that right fully even if I don't respect the belief itself. That doesn't mean you should get to do as you please because of religious freedom though. However, no thought police.
If they are proselytizing, sure I am out. If they overtly use religion in their decisionmaking, I would also eventually opt out too likely. If they keep it mostly to themselves, no problem at all. (Disclaimers: I live in a secular country. I have only a few friends, some of whom I know are religious, but it isn't a topic. I come from an originally catholic region but have never even come close to entertaining a god-belief myself. So, easy for me to say.)
@@landsgevaer good points. I tried to be friends with people from my old church but after changing my views, it became too hard. These people were ridiculous once I opened my eyes. You know what they told me? They said I left the church because I'm under demonic attack! They use religion in every decision they make typically. It was too difficult to maintain friendships because they were all worried about me and telling me that they are praying for me like something was horribly wrong. I'll give you an example of how deep they all are in religion. I had once asked how the church was able to stay open as they didn't have many people at the time. Their answer? "God takes care of the church! Praise him!" Lol! 😂
I find it not hard to be friends with people whom's attitude is not to judge. Sadly, when you really believe in the Bible, one tends to feel the urge/responsibility to "save" you after judging you, while judging you more... It's a nasty beast when "He or she who is without sin ought to cast the first stone.", is not taken at heart when met with a different view of life.
Fascinating to hear a Hindu skeptic’s perspective. I don’t know a ton about it, but from an outsider’s perspective it seems like one of the better religions. Still a bunch of unfalsifiable nonsense, but a nicer message than most. But I do wonder: how big is the social pressure to believe compared to America, where everyone is expected to attend some church or another? From what I know there’s a massive variety of Hindu sects. Is there much in-fighting like there historically was for Christian sects?
Fortunately, there isn’t much pressure to go to the temple. At least not at a society level. Inside the family, yes. Parents do encourage their children to go to their temple. But there isn’t much of ridicule here if you’re an atheist. There isn’t much infighting though. The conflicts usually happen between upper caste and lower caste people or between tribes as is happening now in Manipur. And of course, hindus are always in conflict with Muslims. Even now, interreligious marriages are strongly condemned.
For the Christian, beliefs are not the goal, rather beliefs are means to get to the goal. When I listen to deconversion stories such as this, I wonder what the goal was and why that goal can now be abandoned.
Please, take into account that the US is not 'The West' but just a part of the west. I live in Europe, and I can assure you that we are anything but like the US.
@@rationable When it comes to religion and atheists in America I quickly get the feeling 'they are both stuck in that US bubble'. And that they don't realize that there is another 96% other world out there. BTW, I am an atheist to.
I totally agree. And, personally, I don’t club all of the west into one label unless I feel it involves something that the western world countries all have in common. Thats why I was wondering what you were referring to.
@@rationable A bit my fault maybe. You could go either way with my response. I've been following this discussion about religion in the US for a few years now. It fascinates me and it amazes me. People who put people on the moon and still cling to bronze age ideas. Everything evolves, but knowledge about ourselves, oh no, that is not possible. Evolution is not possible because then there are mistakes in their 'book'. And that is not possible. I think 'fear' in particular holds many of these people in their mind set. Fear of 'hell' is a powerful tool.
Seth and Sam Harris made me think about the power of narrative in a fashion that I had not. I suppose it was due to my never taking narrative as anything more than that unless there was something else shown in the context of reality.
@@rationable In a word: *Dangerous!* A compelling narrative is simply any story that resonates as being true even as there may be no facts that sustain the narrative as being the case. It seems that the primary factors as to whether a narrative is compelling are as follows: 1) Not understanding that there are alternative explanations and having a bias that any explanation that fits is likely correct. The explanation seems to become more correct for those so susceptible the more often the explanation is heard from multiple sources without a counter that resonates as being possibly true. 2) Not understanding that the explanation is unsubstantiated and/or actually a falsehood. The acceptance seems to be predicated on particular biases of various sorts which act as substantiation. This seems to be the life blood of conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, conmen, and others who use narrative to direct/control others. The core point being that a narrative need not be true, just believable to the target and for the people instilling a particular idea it should be self reinforcing. The self reinforcing aspect makes whatever idea self defending and thus difficult to change by direct engagement. --- The broader understanding that came about from the review was an indictment of myself for hijacking the views of others. The hijacking often entailed reinforcing various falsehoods in a fashion that supported a particular desired outcome on my part. This has the net effect of negatively impacting an individual's ability to make decisions even as I got a particular outcome. I now simply educate. My personal gains aren't worth the long term consequences to society as a whole. I really would like more people to be on this page especially people who also understand the power of narrative and wield it without consideration of the harms being caused. --- AI technology has the potential to make humanity's vulnerability to compelling narrative a death spiral.
A very well made point. Humans are attracted to stories, not facts. Weaving a story around an assortment of cherry picked facts can make an incredibly powerful and dangerous narrative as you correctly mentioned. The entire process of skepticism and critical thinking is to think beyond the image of those narratives and untangle the facts about the topic. And then to create a narrative around the truth of it. That we must do or no one will listen.
@@rationable Early redress of falsehoods in a fashion that an individual can know that whatever being referenced is indeed a falsehood goes a long way to preventing the embedding of the falsehood. The acceptance of a falsehood is kinda like a disease. The longer you live with-it, the more potential for serious cognitive damage given the interaction such plays with various other points of understanding. --- Ideas that I think more people need to understanding... Soldier versus Scout Mindset th-cam.com/video/yfRC8ZgBXZw/w-d-xo.html Identity versus Truth th-cam.com/video/NxqTOm3TzsY/w-d-xo.html
9:30 Wait I just realized something else... If only the best people can escape the cycle of reincarnation, then the only reincarnated people who could truly deserve zero suffering in their new life (because they were perfect in their past life)...end up not being reincarnated at all! Everyone alive is automatically compromised by their past lives, because if our past lives were truly good people, then they would not have been reincarnated into one of us in the first place. We don't even need proof that we were bad in a past life; if we were only good in our past lives, then either we wouldn't be alive or we wouldn't have any past lives. (Being born + believing our birth was a reincarnation = automatically believing we weren't good enough to escape the cycle of reincarnation) Another potential problem I see comes from the fact that by now, people have had hundreds of chances to escape the cycle. Each generation of humanity + each cycle of reincarnation will include more & more bad people, as more & more good people will manage to escape the cycle. By now, the only people still being reincarnated are those who have had hundreds of chances to escape the cycle & just suck so bad, so much bad karma, that they keep failing. 😂 Although, if this is how the system works AND everyone born is a reincarnation, then every new generation of humans would have less people than the previous generations. If no one has been good enough to escape, then our population would be the same. Instead, our population keeps increasing... So I'm assuming the system must include a belief that not all humans have had past lives? Some of us must be on our very first life. In which case, at least some of us haven't accrued any bad karma yet from a past life nor in this first life either, and therefore truly deserve not to suffer. IDK how we're supposed to figure out who is on their first life? I'm guessing it's based on whether or not that person has been forced to suffer yet. 😒 AKA: "People who haven't suffered at all are not simply lucky & unfairly born into a life of privilege; instead, they *deserve* to not suffer because clearly they haven't accrued any bad karma in a previous life and are on their first life," etc. ~•~•~•~ Again sorry /end rant, just some of my thoughts. (This was a very interesting interview! Thank you for sharing your unique perspective, I hope more clueless Westerners like me can learn more about different religions. I subscribed. ❤ Shout out to Seth for spending his time bringing attention to smaller channels - no offense.)
None taken! Thanks so much for watching. And you make many excellent points that really got me thinking. The idea of reincarnation is really self defeating in several points. But I want to dig a hell of a lot deeper too.
Fortunately I was born by parents who let me decide for myself what to believe or not. At 5 years old I began questioning the conflicting tenets of religions. At 6 years old I knew it was all crapola. At 17 I re-explored religion upon urging by a girlfriend and once again decided it was all crapola. Now, I know that belief is a sucker’s game I will never engage in.
You’re not only lucky, you’re also very lucky. 😁 kudos for questioning so early and realising the truth. This is the result of excellent secular parenting.
I used to be an atheist and I must say that modern day new atheists are the first ones that got me thinking about how irrational atheism really is . Seth wasn’t responsible for me conversion back to belief in God but if I had discovered him earlier I would have left atheism earlier . If you wanna see what I mean watch him evade science on his debate with Alex tsakiris on skeptiko lol . If ever there was anything describing an unthinking atheist it was Seth God bless all modern atheists .
@@rationable th-cam.com/video/R3oeooz_h48/w-d-xo.html Alex tsakiris isn’t a scientists either but unlike Seth Alex had interviewed the top NDE researchers and sceptics and knew enough about ndes to form a rational opinion . Seth was all emotional in that interview talks ky about how one brand of Christianity made him an atheist . Few atheists would ever tackle the NDE question with intellectual honesty and that is because at the core of who they are most atheists are emotional in their atheism . I’m very sure there are lots of Christian’s that “”just believe “” but you don’t form your opinion on Christianity by dealing with them . If you want some good atheists to do videos on try john beloff Roger penrose Stuart hameroff David chalmers If Seth andrews is a thinker of any kind then the pope is Protestant
10:57 it's not just hinduism that's like this! as much as, I'm sure, we've all come to be annoyed by fundamentalists- I gotta say debating with liberal christians is worse in a lot of ways. Because you can lay out a completely catastrophic argument which dismantles the entire scriptures and the religion as its classically understood all the way down to its foundations... and then they'll just weasel out of it and say "well I don't believe any of that, I just want to love like Jesus did and I know God has a [vague] plan for my life or whatever" and it's just very frustrating.
Every religion has a peace and love component and a kill and hate component as well. Personally, I think the peace and love part is intrinsic in most humans. It’s when it conflicts with our tribalistic nature driven by self-preservation instincts that we can become violent. Religion is inherently tribalistic in nature.
He doesn't need any arguments against Christianity, since it's christians burden to prove Christianity true, which they haven't. You can even grant that Jesus existed, claimed to be god or the son of God, was crucified and resurrected three days later and that still does not prove he was god or the son of God. Of course, I don't grant any of these things, although I will accept that a apocalyptic rabi probably existed and was crucified around that time. Even if all these things are granted, christians still have all their work in front of them to prove he was resurrected because he was god.
Strange - I am German and I'd love it if we had a gun-culture instead of a "ban everything fun"-culture (seriously, they banned butterfly-knives, because they are sooooo scary, wen in reality ever fixed blade is more dangerouse than a butterfly-knife!)...I am also an atheist (de-converted myself during secondary education, especially biology-class (evolution, genes, heredity, genetic defects, recessive traits, organs that don't work anymore (hell: Humans could make vitamin C once, they can't anymore and have to eat things that contain it!) etc.) helped me a lot here and my natural curiousity and doubt (my parents encouraged that, despite being believers - they didn't think I'd doubt religion, too!))
@@rationable The Sudarium is the face cloth (separate cloth) and has 120 blood stains that line up with the shroud and has been proven to have come off of the same person. The WAXS is the latest scientific dating method that proves the shroud was from the period of Jesus. Atheists now have scientific proof. They can deny if they want but they will be denying reality. There is a million dollar offer for anyone that can replicate it and many have tried and all have failed. The 3d image of the face is impossible to replicate even with today's technology. There are some that say in order to get an image like that you would have to fry a dead human in a cloth and subject him with trillions of watts of electricity.
From "Believing in GOD" to Atheism take a dying brain and unwillingness to admit one's own "MOTOR-FORCE" that answers questions before they are formulated, as in "voluntary ignorance".
10:03 So basically: instead of bad people going to a different location called "Hell" where punishment is provided by the Christian God...bad people are reincarnated into new humans somewhere on Earth, and their punishment must be provided in their lifetime on Earth? Aka: "Hell" has to be on Earth. 😬 Under this system...all human suffering can be justified. Under this system, getting rid of sources of avoidable suffering that afflict innocent children...is akin to getting rid of all prisons & letting even the most evil humans go free. Helping the poor & impoverished lower caste, and ending their suffering altogether...is actually rewarding evil. Because if people who did nothing wrong in their lifetime can't be forced to suffer unnecessarily, then how else can past murderers & rapists get justice? If people can't be born into suffering, then no bad people can be reincarnated into humans. The only way people with this karma reincarnation belief can support getting rid of innocent human suffering is if they accept that all bad people must be reincarnated into *other* animal species (on the bottom of the food chain) going forward. _(Which is better than a system requiring the avoidable suffering of innocent humans...but it still disturbs me.)_ .... Honestly, the more I think about it, in some ways this is so much worse than the Christian Hell...Believing in a separate Hell you go to after death does involve the celebration of human suffering, but it's only the suffering of individuals who are already dead. (In fact, believing in a Hell can lead to the opposite effect of believing in human into human reincarnation: *Less* investment in the suffering of humans alive on Earth. Even when it comes to evil people they believe deserve to suffer, they can justify not forcing to suffer right now, because they will suffer endlessly in Hell once they die anyways.) Whereas with reincarnation into humans: the only way evil people who deserve to suffer for their crimes can experience justice is if they can be born into suffering, and all that suffering is forced on them by us. Humanity is responsible for providing & maintaining Hell on Earth...instead of an all powerful God being responsible for providing & maintaining Hell in the afterlife, not anywhere on Earth. Of course, "Hell" is a disgusting belief as well. It sucks, because the idea of "good karma" is definitely a better motive to do actual good than the Christian Heaven/Hell (where worshipping, believing in & confessing to the Christian God is more important than doing actual good). However, as long as karma believers also believe in justice for bad people via human reincarnation...then that could totally compromise the motive to end all human suffering + apathy to human suffering. _As usual, secular humanism beats out any religious/spiritual system that involves some motive to do good._ ~•~•~•~ Sorry /end rant 😅✌️ I mean no offense, especially if I'm wrong. Just some thoughts I had. I mean, if I believed in reincarnation (and that only the best people can escape the cycle)...then I would believe it's very possible an individual currently alive on Earth is the reincarnation of Hitler...! I can just see how easy it would be to slip into apathy towards human suffering, as long as I could think, "well, for all I know those babies were Hitler & his Nazi supporters in their past lives, and if I believe Hitler deserves to suffer than whoever is the reincarnation of Hitler deserves to suffer," etc.
I read this second and once again, you did not disappoint. Excellent points made! Whichever way you look at it, hell, karma etc are completely hollow when confronted with evolutionary ethics.
Well there are wheat and tares you fall away and don't return you probably never really believed in the first place... but we ALL gonna find out the moment we draw that LAST breath now ain't we. The parable of the seed sower Jesus gives not everyone is gonna believe but he gives this chance anyway. Cause that is just his merciful way ALL will stand at judgement and give account ALL!
🤣🤣🤣 I get the reference. Good one. But it’s really not that hard to go through life without believing in a god(s). I have friends and family to speak to in hard times. However, I understand how some people need a god to talk to and that’s fine too. You do you.
I find it interesting that a country that still has the death penalty for certain crimes, has the words “Thou shalt not kill” in the court where people are potentially being sentenced to death! Just a thought.
Yes, I had set the volume too high, couldn’t hear it through the monitor and couldn’t fix it later. Hopefully, the later videos don’t have the same problem.
Genesis cured me. "In the beginning"... Hold it... How do you know there was a beginning? "God made the heavens and the Earth"... Really? Who is "God"? God is the MALE CREATOR invented by the Hebrew tribes living on the Sinai Peninsula. After I left home and joined the Navy I started thinking about this claim...
I hope that guides you well. Unfortunately, common sense is not that common. But think about it deeper and see where it leads you. Your upbringing? Society?
Some people are followers! They'll follow a monkey or a goat. It's too hard to become factually ingrained It takes effort and education, just like you wouldn't become an engineer or a physician. You live in HIS Kingdom and refuse to give HIM the credit ! Plz open your eyes for yourself. The Almighty King doesn't need anything or anyone. It's for your own good. Suddenly, you're set to be in HIS presence. Naheed
I don’t have a well formed idea about one aspect of one doctrine. Actually, there’s a lot more I don’t know. But I feel I still have a right to speak about my beliefs or lack thereof.
@@rationable The basic concepts of any major ideology or religion are not that hard or time consuming to understand. Admitting ignorance is fine but if it's easy to remedy, why not fix it? Hell is a concept introduced in the New Testament, and then Islam inherited that. Hell does not exist in Judaism and it does not exist in the Dharmic (Sanatana dharma, Buddha and Jain dharma) traditions. Not that hard.
@@rationable Naraka, though easily confused with the concept of hell, is not hell. Most basic concepts of monotheistic faiths such as god, heaven, hell, commandments have no equivalents in the dharmic traditions. Unlike the books of the religions -- the bible, the quran -- the dharmic traditions are not based on books. Or rather, there are so many books that it hard to tell what it all means. However, the core concepts of the Hindu dharma are easy to outline. There is Vedanta -- the core principles of the Upanishad. Within Vedanta, there's the advaita school. Advaita means non-dual. There is only one thing which is the universe. That's Brahman. Everything is Brahman. Planets, rocks, animals, stars, humans -- whatever. I am Brahman, you are Brahman. No heaven, no hell. No commandments, no judgements. The universe is just the Brahman doing what the Brahman does. There are good introductions to Advaita Vedanta on youtube. I recommend Swami Sarvapriyanand of the Vedanta Society of New York. You will be amazed.
I am an ex Jehovah's witness. When I left I felt the need to preach to Jehovah's witnesses about the Christian gospel. I am a Christian now. I find Seth Andrews is doing exactly what we are doing. Him for atheism, me for Christianity. I also know an ex Muslim who is doing the same thing who preaches to Muslims. It's like your evangelical atheists instead of Christians. It does just sound like another religion. It's very interesting. It sounded like he was disillusioned by there being different churches with different beliefs. I find that is a massive problem with protestant Christians as it is an I follow peter, I follow Paul issue instead of unity in Jesus. Though, reading history and reading the Bible it seems unintelligent to disregard the Bible as a book of fairy tales. Jesus is either a liar, a mad man, or God. It would be hard to believe men would say he was resurrected just to be brutally tortured to death. Found the interview interesting, though obviously bias.
Thanks so much for the comment. I have a video where I talk about whether atheism is a religion or not. Also, I believe Jesus was first tortured to death and then got resurrected. Maybe that was just a mistake, which is fine.
@@rationable Atheism is a knowledge claim about reality that asserts that no gods exist. Need facts and reasons to support that claim. Theists make the same kind of claim and also bear the burden of proof for their claim.
Actually, it’s rationality that leads to atheism. What is loving about a god that becomes angry and commits genocide, leaving only a handful of humans to repopulate the world. That small group was lead forward by a man that drank himself into a stupor and passed out with his manhood exposed. The one son that cared enough to cover his father with a blanket was condemned and turned out. You are quick to praise the patience of Job. How many years was Satan allowed to torture this ever faithful man so that God could win a bet? I see no evidence for any god. If the God you follow actually does exist, he isn’t worthy of my devotion.
@@katiedotson704 If God did not give you the ability to think you would not be able to. Atheism has nothing to with thinking. It cannot account for it. Atheism cannot account for reality. Christianity does. It was Christianity that made science possible. Not atheism. Where does atheism condemn genocide?
So sad that mature (well...?) People are caught in this vile lie of religion. Any religion. Like little children believing in the easter bunny or santa.
That’s the power of indoctrination especially as a child. It’s extremely difficult to shake off even as an adult. But some of us do manage fortunately.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10
@@Nocturnalux For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 1 Peter 1:16 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God Acts 1:3 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5,6
@@rationable most of his complaining is on off beat stuff Christian cultural gets into and it isn't very related to what Jesus really taught so seth is hardly worth listening to
hey... lost one.. i heard that you feel lost in this world, you have questions on your head that never been answered, like why are we here? what is the purpose of this life? what is the purpose of death? what is going to be after death? and so on... , and you want the real answers for them, but the people around you are too busy chasing money and pleasures and not having the answers for those questions, and you feel miserable and depressed.. i feel you.. I've been there... i had so many years searching and searching, Intel I finally got it, it was islam all along, how ironic, that religion that has the most hate stigma on media, was completely the opposite of what has been said about it... thats because i read the holy Qur'an my self and the prophet mohammed,s story, and I was blown away on how much bauty and goodness the islam religion has, then it clicked for me, i knew after reading, that this is the right path in this life, my life changed forever, for the better for sure,i feel happy and at peace, I'm so greatfull to god for guiding me to the right path, and i wish you guidance too.. ♥
@@rationable He claims he did. Or at least he thought he did. ----- most of what He said the gospels do not teach ... bv14 john 18:37"You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."
Seth's True Stories is GREAT! I was a little kid, in the car going to Shoney's Restaurant (when it was worth a d@mn) or wherever, listening to Paul Harvey. Thanks to you and Seth. Keep up the good fight. :)
@@rationableI've never listened to your show, but I'm a big Seth Andrews fan. He truly is a good guy. I think I may check out more of your show since you had Seth on.
@@rationable I watch a lot of sceptic, humanist, and atheist content. I like people like Seth, Aron Ra, Matt Dillahunty, Dave Warnock. I would imagine many of the same people you like to watch. I loved your interview with Seth.
Interesting to get an Indian perspective. What started my journey was when I heard, on the radio, someone referring to Adam and Eve as Christian mythology. That was the thin end of a very long wedge.
It comes with time, my friend. Just educate yourself and think about your own thinking. Soon, you’ll be surprised at the words that can come out of your mouth.
Whenever someone claims they used to be a Christian, I have one question for them; Whenever you were claiming to be a Christian, did you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? If they answer 'no' then they weren't really a Christian in the first place. If they answer 'yes' then they admit he's real and are walking in contrast to the truth and need to get back into the saving graces of the Lord. It's really that simple if you think about it.
@truthseeker5796 if you knew about Muslims you'd know their Allah is impersonal and so they don't have that type of relationship. Plus if you'd read the kuran you'd know Allah is a6th century moon god and not the same as the God of the Bible. The Jewish god IS the same, they are just stuck in the old testament and haven't recognized Jesus yet, but they believe in him and are waiting for him.
That may be true and I’m sure they do get questioned. The important thing to remember is that one can be an atheist without being a skilled critical thinker. Critical thinking is critical to be able to analyse your own beliefs and ways of thinking. And one of those skills is to know the biases we have and logical fallacies we make and try to avoid them as much as possible.
By voice, I didn’t mean the sound of his actual speech (don’t get me wrong, as a voice professional, he has a gifted voice too) I meant his metaphorical voice, his story, his opinions, his perspective.
I have met him in person more than once at atheist conventions and that is his real voice and he is a genuinely nice man. He will sit and talk to me just like people I have known my whole life. He puts on no air of importance. Just a down to earth nice guy.
@@robinhood20253 : i've no contradictions to the comments you make about Seth as person and advocate of atheism and humanism and generally a voice of reason. Voice means many things. With regard to voice in terms of vocal audio in his podcasts, i maintain that it is over engineered, reminiscent of same for radio personalities.
Absolutely loved this discussion!
Thank you both.
Just out of Christianity after 47 years April 2023
Bravo bravo! Welcome to the rationable side 😁
Congrats!
I used to be a Christian, and Seth's videos were one of the first that started my deconstruction/deconversion journey.
Oh really?! He’s so relatable and easy to listen to. Even though I’ve never really been religious, he helped me get comfortable with my identity.
Good to know Ameet! I used to be one too!
Same here. Still trying to get out of the fear that churches planted in my brain.
I love to hear about your journey
@@vchacko07 It makes me smile to see all the Mallu Ex-Christians in these comments 😊.
My deconversion journey is here:
I grew up in a Mallu Christian family (Mar Thoma, if anyone cares). I always had a lot of questions, but I would always accept the words of my parents or grandparents or priests as true. One of the earliest questions I had as a child was: If there is a good man who is a Hindu, will he go to hell? Or will he go to heaven? My grandmother assured me that if they are good people, then because Jesus is loving, he will allow them into heaven.
I was always interested in science and took a lot of interest in dinosaurs and paleontology. Subsequently, this made me very interested in starting evolution. I was unable to reconcile evolution with the biblical creation narrative. But my parents raised me to have a scientific outlook and so my conclusion was to say that "The Bible does not have to be taken literally. Rather, I can accept certain contradictory parts as incorrect or poetic." By this time, I had already read the Bible once cover to cover.
Over time, my questions switched over to social issues... I started questioning why the Bible would condemn queer folks and I began questioning the morality of the book. I decided to look for evidence of the claims of the Bible and I read it for a second time cover to cover but this time, as a doubting Christian. I did not find the evidence I was looking for and so I went looking for stuff online. It was there that I found Seth and AronRa along with a large atheist community. After listening with an open mind, I decided to accept the label of atheist until I received sufficient evidence.
My logic was: If Jesus was willing to give evidence to Doubting Thomas and to Paul, he would give me the evidence too. So far, I have received no evidence.
I then read the Bible cover to cover one last time as an atheist, I have only opened it for reference since then. But I am now an open atheist.
@@thepurplebox380 @Varghese Chacko My journey went from Pentecostal (fundamentalist) to Universalist (Christian position where all will be saved, regardless of what philosophy they subscribe to, to Episcopaian (liberal Christianity) to Panentheist (Advaita Vedanta, Zen Buddhism) to where I am now. I have shared my story here with a friend th-cam.com/video/0cTrPd6kR_w/w-d-xo.html
❤️ Fantastic guest. I can listen to Seth all day. His sense of humor is awesome.
He is so delightful, isn’t he?
I had been very gradually deconstructing for nearly a decade and had recently come VERY close before I freaked out and temporarily paused the process. Regardless on where one falls on the mythicist/ historicist spectrum(I personally think the point is moot), it was actually a Richard Carrier lecture that autoplayed on TH-cam that took me the rest of the way. I spent the next few days to a week in a sort of dissociative state trying to figure out where I fell. I spent a day as a basic abrahamic theist, then a few days as a deist, and then a few weeks as an agnostic before I settled on atheist and never looked back. So grateful that the Richard Carrier lecture played that night and made everything fall into place for me. It's been a little over a year, and I'm about to turn 40. I cringe when I think about how I used to be, but I'm very glad for the overall healing process I went through, because it was necessary for my mental wellbeing to deconstruct the way I did.
Oh and a few of Seth's old lectures, beginning with the Satanic Panic routine, were the first atheist content I binged!
I’m so glad you’re now on the side of reason! Better late than never. I used to be partly agnostic and mostly ignorant about religion but Sam Harris’s essay on an atheist manifesto got me to stand firmly and take the atheist position. Haven’t budged since. And Seth’s podcast was the first one I subscribed to.
Yes! Richard Carrier!!❤
Which video of Richard Carrier did you watch?
Which video of Richard Carrier did you watch?
Big fan of Seth Andrews. Love his voice and his diverse contents. I live in his neighbouring state, hope to meet him sometime!
With a very similar vocal timbre and delivery, Seth is so the natural successor to the Paul Harvey throne! Excellent classic-sounding radio presence!
Yep , he’s right up there with Satan himself, in fact Satan said that he is going to retire early because Seth is doing such a great job of spreading his lies for him
Seth helped me finally leave religion behind.
That’s so great to know! Bravo! Welcome to reason
I would leave dead religion too. But Good isn't one of many religions. Did you ever know Him?
Seth saved me by helping me understand how silly the religion of atheism is. We former atheists love Seth andrews 👍
Seth Andrews and Dan Barker are the reason why I deconverted from Christianity. Thank God for them. No pun intended
Hahaha none taken. They’re just fantastic
That weight of community and social belonging that keeps Christians attached to their faith is a huge element. I know that is probably one of the things I missed the most when I deconverted. I currently have no community like that as a non-believer and it is noticeably more lonely and you feel more isolated. The social pressure to be a Christian in the USA is still immense.
It really must be terrible to go through that. But there are communities all over your country. American Atheists, FFRF, and several more. Look them up. They have conventions and events regularly where you can meet many others like us.
What a great personality and great Interview..
He is such a delight!
It's very strange that as an atheist I think that Seth's voice is God given.
Hahahaha very true. Maybe he was born with it. Maybe it’s Maybelline. 🤣
The question athiest cannot answer
th-cam.com/video/D8Dnm6gqKDs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Ip92Qk3HBd8OXkWg
Great discussion! Good content! I used to be a fundamentalist Christian, right-wing political nut for 30+ years. At one point, I used to even have church in my basement.
Oh wow! So what happened that changed your mind?
@@rationable It was a process over several years. It went from Pentecostal (fundamentalist) to Universalist (Christian position where all will be saved, regardless of what philosophy they subscribe to, to Episcopaian (liberal Christianity) to Panentheist (Advaita Vedanta, Zen Buddhism) to where I am now. If it piques your interest, I have shared my story here th-cam.com/video/0cTrPd6kR_w/w-d-xo.html
Atheist can't answer this question
th-cam.com/video/D8Dnm6gqKDs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Ip92Qk3HBd8OXkWg
This is an excellent interview. Thank you both for taking the time to spend with us.
The question athiest cannot answer
th-cam.com/video/D8Dnm6gqKDs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Ip92Qk3HBd8OXkWg
Thanks for sharing this! It was interesting to listen to your both experiences.
I’m so glad you enjoyed it! Do stick around and subscribe. I have a lot more in the works.
The question athiest cannot answer
th-cam.com/video/D8Dnm6gqKDs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Ip92Qk3HBd8OXkWg
I love both Matt and Seth.
As do I!
Nice conversation guys❤❤
Thank you so much!
This is a nice episode and I enjoyed it very much. Keep up the good work! I am also a big fan of Seth...
Mr Chanda - love your channel (just popped up). Would love to hear you on the latest cha cha cha between Trudeau and the Indian government.
Best wishes to you and your channel.
Hi! I’m so glad you’re here and I’d love it if you stayed. I don’t delve into politics much since the perspectives can be a lot more complex than science. This situation is exactly that and I haven’t developed an opinion on the topic yet. The only thing I can say is that it’s odd and disappointing to see people who still want divisions when we should all be working towards unity.
Great conversation. If only the theists read their scriptures in a language they understand cover to cover, the penny will start to drop for many. But strangely there is huge inherent reluctance and no curiosity from practising believers to do that.
It’s just easier not to. I think it’s as simple as that.
Athiesm will be the answer to humanitys greatest step to be human....you are so genuine original and truthfull....no it's or butts.....wish i could have the honour to spend 30 min with you....a dream of mine....
Include adopting some variation of humanism maybe?
Atheism is just not believing in any gods. If atheism ever becomes the norm, the whole word becomes obsolete.
Great show. Thanks!
Hey thanks for watching! and I hope you stick around and subscribe.
I love it when a preacher come clean, but don't ever expect a televangelist to do the same, there's too much money involved.
"You don't know what the Commandements say, but you want them on display ?"
"Well yeah, this way it'd be easier for me to remember what they say"
🤣 that’s a good point tho
(And then they realise there are actually more than 500 commandments in the bible.)
Loved this! New subscriber.
Welcome aboard!
Deconstruction is a process, and the farther one goes the more incredulous the faith looks. Keep up the work!
Thank you so much :)
@32:28
"You could just take a tablet."
Hahaha haha. That was great, thank you, I genuinely belly laughed.
I loved the part about the sewage-leaking Virgin Mary statue that 'cried' out of her eyes. . I laughed out loud.
Yes amazing story! But I may have been mistaken. It could have been Jesus. I was doing a little digging after the fact.
He’s a great speaker. I love all his stuff
I really enjoyed this episode, Abhijit. Seth's done a lot of good work over the years. While listening, one thought led to another, and got this atheist thinking about some of the arguments theists use to defend the idea of divine omnipotence, and how ultimately none of them work. I'll have to go over an old philosophy of religion course I took years back to make sure I don't strawbot theists, but it seems as though theistic arguments aren't really as subtle or hard to debunk as apologists pretend. It seems a wee bit cynical to say this, but I think they do pretend this largely to stay in business.
Yes I think so too. Apologists like William L craig go into philosophical arguments and discussions meant to mislead and dodge rather than answer a straight question.
Excellent thanks very much 😅
So funny Seth said in the debates that the other side made more sense. That is exactly what I did and how I felt.
i like that soundgarden poster in the back! you've got good taste haha
Thanks man! I’m a huge fan of Soundgarden. Have been since I was 15.
If there is a god, he brought me to Seth. Thank you god.
The irony is real 😁
As is the twisted, tangled logic of this whole thing.
That was Fantastic. Susbcribed.
Hey thank you so much! Welcome!
I used to be an atheist. Now I am an antitheist. I've seen Seth before but I don't think he had anything to do with it.
So what made you an anti theist?
@@rationable I don't see any significant advantage of religion, apart from the community aspect that shouldn't require a belief. I do see disadvantages though, mainly related to the indoctrination and expulsion of rational critical thinking. It goes broader; I guess I could say that I am an anti-dogmatist, of which religion is a subset.
What made me take a more polarized position is likely mostly viewing some of these apologist "debaters", and reading what fervent believers write. I've never seen or met people like that in real life, I think, but if religion can make you reason or think like that, and encourage such a tribal attitude, then it is something to be against.
I'm one of those who sees most of mainstream religion, in the sense of a belief in a personified magic skydaddy type of deity rather than just spiritual "there-must-be-something-more-ism", as a mental disorder or delusion that happens to be approved and propagated by society. I honestly find it literally revulsive.
Having written that, I stress that I am fervently in favor of anyone having the right to believe whatever they happen to believe! I respect that right fully even if I don't respect the belief itself. That doesn't mean you should get to do as you please because of religious freedom though. However, no thought police.
"And THAT... was theee TRUTH... of the storyyyy."
Thanks, and you're welcome, Seth. 😂🍻
I left Christianity about four months ago. It's been such a change. Does anyone else find it hard to be friends with Christians after leaving?
If they are proselytizing, sure I am out. If they overtly use religion in their decisionmaking, I would also eventually opt out too likely. If they keep it mostly to themselves, no problem at all.
(Disclaimers: I live in a secular country. I have only a few friends, some of whom I know are religious, but it isn't a topic. I come from an originally catholic region but have never even come close to entertaining a god-belief myself. So, easy for me to say.)
@@landsgevaer good points. I tried to be friends with people from my old church but after changing my views, it became too hard. These people were ridiculous once I opened my eyes. You know what they told me? They said I left the church because I'm under demonic attack! They use religion in every decision they make typically. It was too difficult to maintain friendships because they were all worried about me and telling me that they are praying for me like something was horribly wrong. I'll give you an example of how deep they all are in religion. I had once asked how the church was able to stay open as they didn't have many people at the time. Their answer? "God takes care of the church! Praise him!" Lol! 😂
I find it not hard to be friends with people whom's attitude is not to judge.
Sadly, when you really believe in the Bible, one tends to feel the urge/responsibility to "save" you after judging you, while judging you more... It's a nasty beast when "He or she who is without sin ought to cast the first stone.", is not taken at heart when met with a different view of life.
Love the t-shirt!!🤘
Hey thanks dude! 🤘
Fascinating to hear a Hindu skeptic’s perspective. I don’t know a ton about it, but from an outsider’s perspective it seems like one of the better religions. Still a bunch of unfalsifiable nonsense, but a nicer message than most. But I do wonder: how big is the social pressure to believe compared to America, where everyone is expected to attend some church or another? From what I know there’s a massive variety of Hindu sects. Is there much in-fighting like there historically was for Christian sects?
Fortunately, there isn’t much pressure to go to the temple. At least not at a society level. Inside the family, yes. Parents do encourage their children to go to their temple. But there isn’t much of ridicule here if you’re an atheist. There isn’t much infighting though. The conflicts usually happen between upper caste and lower caste people or between tribes as is happening now in Manipur. And of course, hindus are always in conflict with Muslims. Even now, interreligious marriages are strongly condemned.
For the Christian, beliefs are not the goal, rather beliefs are means to get to the goal. When I listen to deconversion stories such as this, I wonder what the goal was and why that goal can now be abandoned.
Christopher Hitchens has a whole book on Mother Teresa. He exposes all of her hypocrisy.
This is a great interview. Just goes to prove that Hitchens saves from hell, and heaven! Praise be.
I have never considered Matt Dillahunty a philosophical person. I have always seen him as a straight forward person.
He is but his knowledge of philosophy is formidable. Have you watched his debates?
Please, take into account that the US is not 'The West' but just a part of the west. I live in Europe, and I can assure you that we are anything but like the US.
What exactly is this in reference to?
@@rationable When it comes to religion and atheists in America I quickly get the feeling 'they are both stuck in that US bubble'. And that they don't realize that there is another 96% other world out there.
BTW, I am an atheist to.
I totally agree. And, personally, I don’t club all of the west into one label unless I feel it involves something that the western world countries all have in common. Thats why I was wondering what you were referring to.
@@rationable A bit my fault maybe. You could go either way with my response.
I've been following this discussion about religion in the US for a few years now. It fascinates me and it amazes me. People who put people on the moon and still cling to bronze age ideas. Everything evolves, but knowledge about ourselves, oh no, that is not possible.
Evolution is not possible because then there are mistakes in their 'book'. And that is not possible. I think 'fear' in particular holds many of these people in their mind set. Fear of 'hell' is a powerful tool.
Yes I find it fascinating as well and such a paradox. This, of course, feeds into their political system where people have even more bizarre beliefs.
Seth and Sam Harris made me think about the power of narrative in a fashion that I had not. I suppose it was due to my never taking narrative as anything more than that unless there was something else shown in the context of reality.
So what do you think of the power of narrative now in their context?
@@rationable In a word: *Dangerous!*
A compelling narrative is simply any story that resonates as being true even as there may be no facts that sustain the narrative as being the case. It seems that the primary factors as to whether a narrative is compelling are as follows:
1) Not understanding that there are alternative explanations and having a bias that any explanation that fits is likely correct. The explanation seems to become more correct for those so susceptible the more often the explanation is heard from multiple sources without a counter that resonates as being possibly true.
2) Not understanding that the explanation is unsubstantiated and/or actually a falsehood. The acceptance seems to be predicated on particular biases of various sorts which act as substantiation.
This seems to be the life blood of conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, conmen, and others who use narrative to direct/control others. The core point being that a narrative need not be true, just believable to the target and for the people instilling a particular idea it should be self reinforcing. The self reinforcing aspect makes whatever idea self defending and thus difficult to change by direct engagement.
---
The broader understanding that came about from the review was an indictment of myself for hijacking the views of others. The hijacking often entailed reinforcing various falsehoods in a fashion that supported a particular desired outcome on my part. This has the net effect of negatively impacting an individual's ability to make decisions even as I got a particular outcome.
I now simply educate. My personal gains aren't worth the long term consequences to society as a whole. I really would like more people to be on this page especially people who also understand the power of narrative and wield it without consideration of the harms being caused.
---
AI technology has the potential to make humanity's vulnerability to compelling narrative a death spiral.
A very well made point. Humans are attracted to stories, not facts. Weaving a story around an assortment of cherry picked facts can make an incredibly powerful and dangerous narrative as you correctly mentioned. The entire process of skepticism and critical thinking is to think beyond the image of those narratives and untangle the facts about the topic. And then to create a narrative around the truth of it. That we must do or no one will listen.
@@rationable
Early redress of falsehoods in a fashion that an individual can know that whatever being referenced is indeed a falsehood goes a long way to preventing the embedding of the falsehood.
The acceptance of a falsehood is kinda like a disease. The longer you live with-it, the more potential for serious cognitive damage given the interaction such plays with various other points of understanding.
---
Ideas that I think more people need to understanding...
Soldier versus Scout Mindset
th-cam.com/video/yfRC8ZgBXZw/w-d-xo.html
Identity versus Truth
th-cam.com/video/NxqTOm3TzsY/w-d-xo.html
9:30 Wait I just realized something else...
If only the best people can escape the cycle of reincarnation, then the only reincarnated people who could truly deserve zero suffering in their new life (because they were perfect in their past life)...end up not being reincarnated at all! Everyone alive is automatically compromised by their past lives, because if our past lives were truly good people, then they would not have been reincarnated into one of us in the first place. We don't even need proof that we were bad in a past life; if we were only good in our past lives, then either we wouldn't be alive or we wouldn't have any past lives. (Being born + believing our birth was a reincarnation = automatically believing we weren't good enough to escape the cycle of reincarnation)
Another potential problem I see comes from the fact that by now, people have had hundreds of chances to escape the cycle. Each generation of humanity + each cycle of reincarnation will include more & more bad people, as more & more good people will manage to escape the cycle.
By now, the only people still being reincarnated are those who have had hundreds of chances to escape the cycle & just suck so bad, so much bad karma, that they keep failing. 😂
Although, if this is how the system works AND everyone born is a reincarnation, then every new generation of humans would have less people than the previous generations. If no one has been good enough to escape, then our population would be the same. Instead, our population keeps increasing...
So I'm assuming the system must include a belief that not all humans have had past lives? Some of us must be on our very first life. In which case, at least some of us haven't accrued any bad karma yet from a past life nor in this first life either, and therefore truly deserve not to suffer.
IDK how we're supposed to figure out who is on their first life?
I'm guessing it's based on whether or not that person has been forced to suffer yet. 😒 AKA: "People who haven't suffered at all are not simply lucky & unfairly born into a life of privilege; instead, they *deserve* to not suffer because clearly they haven't accrued any bad karma in a previous life and are on their first life," etc.
~•~•~•~
Again sorry /end rant, just some of my thoughts.
(This was a very interesting interview! Thank you for sharing your unique perspective, I hope more clueless Westerners like me can learn more about different religions. I subscribed. ❤ Shout out to Seth for spending his time bringing attention to smaller channels - no offense.)
None taken! Thanks so much for watching. And you make many excellent points that really got me thinking. The idea of reincarnation is really self defeating in several points. But I want to dig a hell of a lot deeper too.
Fortunately I was born by parents who let me decide for myself what to believe or not. At 5 years old I began questioning the conflicting tenets of religions. At 6 years old I knew it was all crapola. At 17 I re-explored religion upon urging by a girlfriend and once again decided it was all crapola. Now, I know that belief is a sucker’s game I will never engage in.
You’re not only lucky, you’re also very lucky. 😁 kudos for questioning so early and realising the truth. This is the result of excellent secular parenting.
Mic check.... check, check...
I used to be an atheist and I must say that modern day new atheists are the first ones that got me thinking about how irrational atheism really is .
Seth wasn’t responsible for me conversion back to belief in God but if I had discovered him earlier I would have left atheism earlier .
If you wanna see what I mean watch him evade science on his debate with Alex tsakiris on skeptiko lol .
If ever there was anything describing an unthinking atheist it was Seth
God bless all modern atheists .
Thank you for your blessings. Since seth isn’t a scientist, I’m not surprised he didn’t want to answer those questions. But I will check it out.
I can’t find the video you mentioned though.
@@rationable th-cam.com/video/R3oeooz_h48/w-d-xo.html
Alex tsakiris isn’t a scientists either but unlike Seth Alex had interviewed the top NDE researchers and sceptics and knew enough about ndes to form a rational opinion .
Seth was all emotional in that interview talks ky about how one brand of Christianity made him an atheist .
Few atheists would ever tackle the NDE question with intellectual honesty and that is because at the core of who they are most atheists are emotional in their atheism .
I’m very sure there are lots of Christian’s that “”just believe “” but you don’t form your opinion on Christianity by dealing with them .
If you want some good atheists to do videos on try john beloff
Roger penrose
Stuart hameroff
David chalmers
If Seth andrews is a thinker of any kind then the pope is Protestant
@@rationable your very welcome my friend .
Such an unbelievable word salad you served there.
You guys both have great voices.
Thank you so much. That’s very kind of you.
It took me reading through and through the Bible 💣
My DEconversion 🎯
That usually does the trick 😄
The question athiest cannot answer
th-cam.com/video/D8Dnm6gqKDs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Ip92Qk3HBd8OXkWg
Great conversation.
Thank you so much
10:57 it's not just hinduism that's like this! as much as, I'm sure, we've all come to be annoyed by fundamentalists- I gotta say debating with liberal christians is worse in a lot of ways. Because you can lay out a completely catastrophic argument which dismantles the entire scriptures and the religion as its classically understood all the way down to its foundations... and then they'll just weasel out of it and say "well I don't believe any of that, I just want to love like Jesus did and I know God has a [vague] plan for my life or whatever" and it's just very frustrating.
Absolutely. That’s why you should watch my interview with Anthony Magnabosco. Let the theists dismantle their own worldview.
@@rationable Thanks, I'll put that on my watch later!
Every religion has a peace and love component and a kill and hate component as well. Personally, I think the peace and love part is intrinsic in most humans. It’s when it conflicts with our tribalistic nature driven by self-preservation instincts that we can become violent. Religion is inherently tribalistic in nature.
It surprises me how weak his arguments are against Christianity.
He doesn't need any arguments against Christianity, since it's christians burden to prove Christianity true, which they haven't. You can even grant that Jesus existed, claimed to be god or the son of God, was crucified and resurrected three days later and that still does not prove he was god or the son of God. Of course, I don't grant any of these things, although I will accept that a apocalyptic rabi probably existed and was crucified around that time. Even if all these things are granted, christians still have all their work in front of them to prove he was resurrected because he was god.
I clicked to hear Seth and subscribed because of Alice In Chains 😂
Hell yeah! Welcome aboard fellow headbanger! Are you planning on going to Aftershock this October? I've got my tickets!
Strange - I am German and I'd love it if we had a gun-culture instead of a "ban everything fun"-culture (seriously, they banned butterfly-knives, because they are sooooo scary, wen in reality ever fixed blade is more dangerouse than a butterfly-knife!)...I am also an atheist (de-converted myself during secondary education, especially biology-class (evolution, genes, heredity, genetic defects, recessive traits, organs that don't work anymore (hell: Humans could make vitamin C once, they can't anymore and have to eat things that contain it!) etc.) helped me a lot here and my natural curiousity and doubt (my parents encouraged that, despite being believers - they didn't think I'd doubt religion, too!))
I read the WHOLE Bible when I was 15. That horror show made me an atheist.
Sudarium of Oviedo, Shroud of Turin, WAXS
Which one of these is not like the others?
@@rationable The Sudarium is the face cloth (separate cloth) and has 120 blood stains that line up with the shroud and has been proven to have come off of the same person. The WAXS is the latest scientific dating method that proves the shroud was from the period of Jesus. Atheists now have scientific proof. They can deny if they want but they will be denying reality. There is a million dollar offer for anyone that can replicate it and many have tried and all have failed. The 3d image of the face is impossible to replicate even with today's technology. There are some that say in order to get an image like that you would have to fry a dead human in a cloth and subject him with trillions of watts of electricity.
49:35.. to correct the subtitles: that primatologist (? Is that a real thing) is called Frans de Waal.
Thanks so much!
And yes, primatologists are real.
Any fellow solipsists out there?
From "Believing in GOD" to Atheism take a dying brain and unwillingness to admit one's own "MOTOR-FORCE" that answers questions before they are formulated, as in "voluntary ignorance".
Went from worshipping Jesus to worshipping politicians and “experts”.
Seth sounds like Jack Nicholson.
You know, I hadn’t thought of that but now that you mention it, there is a bit of a similarity.
10:03 So basically: instead of bad people going to a different location called "Hell" where punishment is provided by the Christian God...bad people are reincarnated into new humans somewhere on Earth, and their punishment must be provided in their lifetime on Earth?
Aka: "Hell" has to be on Earth. 😬
Under this system...all human suffering can be justified. Under this system, getting rid of sources of avoidable suffering that afflict innocent children...is akin to getting rid of all prisons & letting even the most evil humans go free.
Helping the poor & impoverished lower caste, and ending their suffering altogether...is actually rewarding evil.
Because if people who did nothing wrong in their lifetime can't be forced to suffer unnecessarily, then how else can past murderers & rapists get justice? If people can't be born into suffering, then no bad people can be reincarnated into humans. The only way people with this karma reincarnation belief can support getting rid of innocent human suffering is if they accept that all bad people must be reincarnated into *other* animal species (on the bottom of the food chain) going forward. _(Which is better than a system requiring the avoidable suffering of innocent humans...but it still disturbs me.)_
....
Honestly, the more I think about it, in some ways this is so much worse than the Christian Hell...Believing in a separate Hell you go to after death does involve the celebration of human suffering, but it's only the suffering of individuals who are already dead. (In fact, believing in a Hell can lead to the opposite effect of believing in human into human reincarnation: *Less* investment in the suffering of humans alive on Earth. Even when it comes to evil people they believe deserve to suffer, they can justify not forcing to suffer right now, because they will suffer endlessly in Hell once they die anyways.)
Whereas with reincarnation into humans: the only way evil people who deserve to suffer for their crimes can experience justice is if they can be born into suffering, and all that suffering is forced on them by us. Humanity is responsible for providing & maintaining Hell on Earth...instead of an all powerful God being responsible for providing & maintaining Hell in the afterlife, not anywhere on Earth.
Of course, "Hell" is a disgusting belief as well. It sucks, because the idea of "good karma" is definitely a better motive to do actual good than the Christian Heaven/Hell (where worshipping, believing in & confessing to the Christian God is more important than doing actual good).
However, as long as karma believers also believe in justice for bad people via human reincarnation...then that could totally compromise the motive to end all human suffering + apathy to human suffering. _As usual, secular humanism beats out any religious/spiritual system that involves some motive to do good._
~•~•~•~
Sorry /end rant 😅✌️ I mean no offense, especially if I'm wrong. Just some thoughts I had.
I mean, if I believed in reincarnation (and that only the best people can escape the cycle)...then I would believe it's very possible an individual currently alive on Earth is the reincarnation of Hitler...! I can just see how easy it would be to slip into apathy towards human suffering, as long as I could think, "well, for all I know those babies were Hitler & his Nazi supporters in their past lives, and if I believe Hitler deserves to suffer than whoever is the reincarnation of Hitler deserves to suffer," etc.
I read this second and once again, you did not disappoint. Excellent points made! Whichever way you look at it, hell, karma etc are completely hollow when confronted with evolutionary ethics.
Is it a sin to think that Seth’s voice is sexy?
If it’s a sin then throw me into hell right away, lock the door and fling the key into the sea.
Well there are wheat and tares you fall away and don't return you probably never really believed in the first place... but we ALL gonna find out the moment we draw that LAST breath now ain't we. The parable of the seed sower Jesus gives not everyone is gonna believe but he gives this chance anyway. Cause that is just his merciful way ALL will stand at judgement and give account ALL!
A thousand apologies. I feel bad for atheist people. I can't imagine not having a loving and living God I couldn't turn to in this hard life
🤣🤣🤣 I get the reference. Good one. But it’s really not that hard to go through life without believing in a god(s). I have friends and family to speak to in hard times. However, I understand how some people need a god to talk to and that’s fine too. You do you.
@@rationable I don't have a lot of family and friends I can talk to. So I need that salvation. Like you said live and let live. Stay well my friend
And you!
he reminds me of jeff goldblum
Really? I don’t see it.
I find it interesting that a country that still has the death penalty for certain crimes, has the words “Thou shalt not kill” in the court where people are potentially being sentenced to death! Just a thought.
You’ve got a good point there. And the death penalty, if I’m not wrong, is still in the states that are the most religious. Is that correct?
You have a bad mic. Seth sounds clear but your mic is horrible
Yes, I had set the volume too high, couldn’t hear it through the monitor and couldn’t fix it later. Hopefully, the later videos don’t have the same problem.
Genesis cured me.
"In the beginning"... Hold it... How do you know there was a beginning?
"God made the heavens and the Earth"... Really? Who is "God"?
God is the MALE CREATOR invented by the Hebrew tribes living on the Sinai Peninsula.
After I left home and joined the Navy I started thinking about this claim...
Where do I get my morals from? Just common sense, I guess...
I hope that guides you well. Unfortunately, common sense is not that common. But think about it deeper and see where it leads you. Your upbringing? Society?
Stay on topic and leave politics out.
Some people are followers! They'll follow a monkey or a goat. It's too hard to become factually ingrained
It takes effort and education, just like you wouldn't become an engineer or a physician. You live in HIS Kingdom and refuse to give HIM the credit ! Plz open your eyes for yourself. The Almighty King doesn't need anything or anyone. It's for your own good. Suddenly, you're set to be in HIS presence. Naheed
So who is following who?
If you don't know if Hinduism has a hell concept, why are you speaking about God or atheism ?? You have much to learn.....
I don’t have a well formed idea about one aspect of one doctrine. Actually, there’s a lot more I don’t know. But I feel I still have a right to speak about my beliefs or lack thereof.
@@rationable The basic concepts of any major ideology or religion are not that hard or time consuming to understand. Admitting ignorance is fine but if it's easy to remedy, why not fix it?
Hell is a concept introduced in the New Testament, and then Islam inherited that. Hell does not exist in Judaism and it does not exist in the Dharmic (Sanatana dharma, Buddha and Jain dharma) traditions. Not that hard.
Thanks for the information. But Hinduism does hold an idea of Narakh, which is an equivalent of hell. But in what context is it used?
@@rationable Naraka, though easily confused with the concept of hell, is not hell. Most basic concepts of monotheistic faiths such as god, heaven, hell, commandments have no equivalents in the dharmic traditions.
Unlike the books of the religions -- the bible, the quran -- the dharmic traditions are not based on books. Or rather, there are so many books that it hard to tell what it all means.
However, the core concepts of the Hindu dharma are easy to outline. There is Vedanta -- the core principles of the Upanishad. Within Vedanta, there's the advaita school. Advaita means non-dual. There is only one thing which is the universe. That's Brahman. Everything is Brahman. Planets, rocks, animals, stars, humans -- whatever. I am Brahman, you are Brahman. No heaven, no hell. No commandments, no judgements. The universe is just the Brahman doing what the Brahman does.
There are good introductions to Advaita Vedanta on youtube. I recommend Swami Sarvapriyanand of the Vedanta Society of New York. You will be amazed.
Atheist are wrong. Look up Trent Horn debates
What are we wrong about?
@@rationableyou can't answer this question th-cam.com/video/D8Dnm6gqKDs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Ip92Qk3HBd8OXkWg
"You can only debunk the book of Genesis so many times". I don't agree with that one.
I am an ex Jehovah's witness. When I left I felt the need to preach to Jehovah's witnesses about the Christian gospel.
I am a Christian now. I find Seth Andrews is doing exactly what we are doing. Him for atheism, me for Christianity.
I also know an ex Muslim who is doing the same thing who preaches to Muslims.
It's like your evangelical atheists instead of Christians.
It does just sound like another religion.
It's very interesting. It sounded like he was disillusioned by there being different churches with different beliefs.
I find that is a massive problem with protestant Christians as it is an I follow peter, I follow Paul issue instead of unity in Jesus. Though, reading history and reading the Bible it seems unintelligent to disregard the Bible as a book of fairy tales.
Jesus is either a liar, a mad man, or God. It would be hard to believe men would say he was resurrected just to be brutally tortured to death.
Found the interview interesting, though obviously bias.
Thanks so much for the comment. I have a video where I talk about whether atheism is a religion or not. Also, I believe Jesus was first tortured to death and then got resurrected. Maybe that was just a mistake, which is fine.
His voice is creepy
How does atheism lead to rationality given that the premise of atheism is false?
What do you think the premise of atheism is?
@@rationable Atheism is a knowledge claim about reality that asserts that no gods exist. Need facts and reasons to support that claim. Theists make the same kind of claim and also bear the burden of proof for their claim.
Actually, it’s rationality that leads to atheism.
What is loving about a god that becomes angry and commits genocide, leaving only a handful of humans to repopulate the world. That small group was lead forward by a man that drank himself into a stupor and passed out with his manhood exposed. The one son that cared enough to cover his father with a blanket was condemned and turned out.
You are quick to praise the patience of Job. How many years was Satan allowed to torture this ever faithful man so that God could win a bet?
I see no evidence for any god. If the God you follow actually does exist, he isn’t worthy of my devotion.
@@katiedotson704 If God did not give you the ability to think you would not be able to. Atheism has nothing to with thinking. It cannot account for it.
Atheism cannot account for reality. Christianity does. It was Christianity that made science possible. Not atheism.
Where does atheism condemn genocide?
@@Justas399 no it is a lack of belief in a god.
TDS
so fashionable to hate Trump
So reasonable
So sad that mature (well...?) People are caught in this vile lie of religion. Any religion. Like little children believing in the easter bunny or santa.
That’s the power of indoctrination especially when you’re a child.
That’s the power of indoctrination especially as a child. It’s extremely difficult to shake off even as an adult. But some of us do manage fortunately.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10
Cool story bro.
@@Nocturnalux For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 1 Peter 1:16
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God Acts 1:3
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5,6
@@stephenpeppin5537 Cooler story, bro.
That’s all fiction bro. Pure fiction.
Do you have any thoughts of your own unrelated to the bible or your religion?
he never was....
He never was what?
@@rationable a Christian
Why do you think he wasn’t?
@@rationable most of his complaining is on off beat stuff Christian cultural gets into and it isn't very related to what Jesus really taught
so seth is hardly worth listening to
And yet, here we are, listening to him. So what’s the best thing, in your opinion, that Jesus taught?
hey... lost one.. i heard that you feel lost in this world, you have questions on your head that never been answered, like why are we here? what is the purpose of this life? what is the purpose of death? what is going to be after death? and so on... , and you want the real answers for them, but the people around you are too busy chasing money and pleasures and not having the answers for those questions, and you feel miserable and depressed.. i feel you.. I've been there... i had so many years searching and searching, Intel I finally got it, it was islam all along, how ironic, that religion that has the most hate stigma on media, was completely the opposite of what has been said about it... thats because i read the holy Qur'an my self and the prophet mohammed,s story, and I was blown away on how much bauty and goodness the islam religion has, then it clicked for me, i knew after reading, that this is the right path in this life, my life changed forever, for the better for sure,i feel happy and at peace, I'm so greatfull to god for guiding me to the right path, and i wish you guidance too.. ♥
Hey I’m really happy for you. I hope islam brings you joy and peace.
seth just left a culture
he never knew God personally
He claims he did. Or at least he thought he did.
@@rationable He claims he did. Or at least he thought he did.
-----
most of what He said the gospels do not teach ...
bv14 john 18:37"You are a king, then!" said Pilate.
Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason
I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth.
Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."
That’s because he isn’t a theist anymore. But he used to be.
@@rationable well he will still have to stand before Jesus and give account he will certainly be a theist then
If there is a god or Jesus, which we don’t believe there is. One way or another, we’ll only find out once we die.
Seth's True Stories is GREAT! I was a little kid, in the car going to Shoney's Restaurant (when it was worth a d@mn) or wherever, listening to Paul Harvey. Thanks to you and Seth. Keep up the good fight. :)
Seth Andrews fucked up:
"Talking donkeys. In Genesis."
Lol! That was in NUMBERS, goddammit!
Thank you for bringing Seth, my best atheist of all time! I love his voice❤❤❤❤
Oh so do I! So soothing isn’t it?
I could listen to him read the phone book.
@@rationableI've never listened to your show, but I'm a big Seth Andrews fan. He truly is a good guy. I think I may check out more of your show since you had Seth on.
@cullenarthur8879 please do! And welcome! I hope you stick around. And let me know what kind of content you’d like to see.
@@rationable I watch a lot of sceptic, humanist, and atheist content. I like people like Seth, Aron Ra, Matt Dillahunty, Dave Warnock. I would imagine many of the same people you like to watch. I loved your interview with Seth.
Seth and Mr Chanda had a great dialogue. Great give and take, respect, and sharing. Knowledge as well. Gracias!
Thank you so much! I'm so glad you liked that. I'm trying to get some more amazing guests very soon, so I hope you subscribe.
Interesting to get an Indian perspective. What started my journey was when I heard, on the radio, someone referring to Adam and Eve as Christian mythology. That was the thin end of a very long wedge.
The best way to open your eyes is to see through someone else’s, isn’t it?
Seth, with the help of pod casts like yours, I am now an atheist and much happier with life. Thank you, my friend.
These are the kinds of things that I’m sure make his day. I’ve shared your message with him.
I love the scholarly Atheists. I wish that I could speak so articulately about my non-belief. I just sound silly when I explain why I am an Atheist.
It comes with time, my friend. Just educate yourself and think about your own thinking. Soon, you’ll be surprised at the words that can come out of your mouth.
In a video where 2 atheist are talking, I got a TH-cam ad from lifesurge. 😂
These things always crack me up 😂
Whenever someone claims they used to be a Christian, I have one question for them; Whenever you were claiming to be a Christian, did you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ?
If they answer 'no' then they weren't really a Christian in the first place.
If they answer 'yes' then they admit he's real and are walking in contrast to the truth and need to get back into the saving graces of the Lord.
It's really that simple if you think about it.
That’s a bit like a No True Scotsman fallacy, don’t you think?
what about the muslim or the jew who has a relationship with god?
@truthseeker5796 if you knew about Muslims you'd know their Allah is impersonal and so they don't have that type of relationship. Plus if you'd read the kuran you'd know Allah is a6th century moon god and not the same as the God of the Bible. The Jewish god IS the same, they are just stuck in the old testament and haven't recognized Jesus yet, but they believe in him and are waiting for him.
@@rationable lots of atheist use that one but they don't get questioned
That may be true and I’m sure they do get questioned. The important thing to remember is that one can be an atheist without being a skilled critical thinker. Critical thinking is critical to be able to analyse your own beliefs and ways of thinking. And one of those skills is to know the biases we have and logical fallacies we make and try to avoid them as much as possible.
Seth Andrews relatable voice? now you're just sucking up with dishonesty. Took me a while to get used to his over the top studio engineered voice.
By voice, I didn’t mean the sound of his actual speech (don’t get me wrong, as a voice professional, he has a gifted voice too) I meant his metaphorical voice, his story, his opinions, his perspective.
I have met him in person more than once at atheist conventions and that is his real voice and he is a genuinely nice man. He will sit and talk to me just like people I have known my whole life. He puts on no air of importance. Just a down to earth nice guy.
@@robinhood20253 : i've no contradictions to the comments you make about Seth as person and advocate of atheism and humanism and generally a voice of reason.
Voice means many things. With regard to voice in terms of vocal audio in his podcasts, i maintain that it is over engineered, reminiscent of same for radio personalities.
In his early days, he actually added a lot of distortion to his voice so it couldn’t be recognised.