Best of the History Guy: History Lost
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ค. 2024
- From the vaults, four classic The History Guy episodes about history that has been lost. One hour of The History Guy!
00:00 - The National Personnel Records Fire of 1973
12:12 - The Tragedy of the 1890 Census
24:17 - The 1978 National Archives Nitrate Vault Fire
35:26 - The Decline of the Great Library of Alexandria
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This is original content based on research by The History Guy. Images in the Public Domain are carefully selected and provide illustration. As very few images of the actual event are available in the Public Domain, images of similar objects and events are used for illustration.
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All events are portrayed in historical context and for educational purposes. No images or content are primarily intended to shock and disgust. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Non censuram.
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#history #thehistoryguy #historylost #1890 #census #NPRC #Alexandria
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My uncle’s records, CPL Alfred S Sullivan Army Air Corps, were lost. He died in a B-17 crash in Japan early in 1946. By researching other members of his crew I was able to find the crash report and much other information about his service. He is now interned in Jefferson National Cemetery with the other members of his crew in a joint grave. As they were not able to identify the individual crew members. These young men and women deserve to be remembered.
My best friend growing up had a grandfather who I had met many times had served as a radio operator on a B-17. The sad thing is he never told me that until after he died so I never got to talk to him about it. Also my great uncle was on Iwo Jima which I didn't know about until after he died. Someone I don't know it's a big family has a picture of him and the date is 3 days before The invasion and he's standing on the deck of the transport with a big grin on his face. He had no idea what he got himself into. He was a Seabee in his job was to drive a tractor full of artillery rounds up to their positions. Can you imagine driving around Iwo Jima with a tractor full of bombs?
Hey how do you get these records because my grandfather was in Patton's third army but no one in my family knows what is MOS is because he never talked about the war and he before I was born. If I could get his DD-214 I can contact the unit historian and figure out his movements during that time.
@@jonathanperry8331 No I don't. I thank your great uncle.
@@jonathanperry8331
I have the same question.
I have visited your uncle's and the B-17 crew's grave at Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery. They are interred not to far from Section F, where my grandparents were laid to rest. My grandfather, your uncle, and his crew mates, are resting in honor for serving their country. It is a damned shame that we have allowed that communist "woke culture" spit on all they fought for. Hopefully, America is starting to reject this repudiation of or heroes.
While serving in the Vermont Army National Guard in 1982, we took on a new Spec-5 clerk. He had been in the unit in the Pacific in WW2, had layer been company commander and served 21 years. But when it was time to ask about his military pension, he discovered that he could only verify 18 1/2 years. The fire ate the rest. He was with us for 18 months, served humbly and well, and recovered his pension. I was proud to have served with him and glad to discuss the old days with him.
My father was born in 1917 and served in the 1930s, he found out when he got paralyzed during a back operation that all of his records were gone and spent years proving that he existed. He had to find a family bible with his birth, because he didn't have a birth certificate. I have never been seen as a "Military Dependent" or a child of a service man. It caused many people a lot of stress.
It's awesome when service times overlap like that. I was in Iraqi Freedom as a fresh Private and had the honor of serving with 4 Vietnam vets.
Thank you so much for covering this! My grandpa died in the mid 90s and would never talk about his time in the Pacific. Since the records were burned we have no way of knowing anything about his history in WW2. He's now buried at Jefferson Barracks.
My father was inducted into and served in the U.S. Public Health Service during WWII. After the war there was some question as to whether he qualified for veterans benefits, despite the fact that he had been inducted, and was a commissioned medical officer, honorably discharged. Sometime after the war, he received a letter from the government, apparently in response to a request for verification of benefits. I have that letter and it clearly spells out that the PHS was considered a branch of the U S. armed services, and therefore, he absolutely did qualify for V.A. benefits. He never claimed any. Upon his death in 2001, my brother requested burial benefits. The request was denied because, no service record could be found, most probably due to this fire.They asked for any other evidence, such as official correspondence, or even a photo of him in uniform. I did know of an old photo, but it was buried somewhere in 50 years of family photos and could not be found. Now, 21years after his death, it is probably too late to prove his service, or to claim the one small benefit that was ever requested for his service.
@@MrZeissOne That's a sad story.
Look through all of the WW2 units that men from your area eisted into. Check with Jefferson Barracks and ask them for the ayutopsy record, if there was one, also for the burial report, and any other information about his internment reports. You might find quite bit that you didn't know, or information you didn't know that you knew. Good luck.
What we lost was tragic. I lost both my husbands and my father's records. That means that my father's discharge records are gone - after he landed in Normandy in a glider, attached to the 82nd Airborne as one of the few to survive. Also, my husband who was among the first 173rd airborne troops to arrive in Vietnam, is also gone. I have a hard time understanding why more care was not taken about protecting those records.
Tis a shame luv , but the important thing they did can never be taken from them. They have my respect, god bless from a Yorkshire lad in the UK. P.S I lost family to wwii to recent (some lost literally no graves) but have their records. Id happily destroy the documents to have them have survived. This is by no means a dig comment, just sometimes its best to count our blessings. But they deserve to have their stories told and names written forever.
My USMC records were destroyed.
I’m very sorry about your losses. They were all heroes. No one can take that from them or you.
...they said "Trust us. We're here to help." And everyone just kinda went along with it.
when it comes down to it, all this federal stuff is like a bunch of pet projects for various people....i went to a really nice private Montessori school as a kid where where we did alot of research presentations, projects, dioramas, etc to present to our class ( thats like all we ever did-and it was good schooling btw).....but my gradeschool--that gradeschool reminds me SO MUCH of how people run projects in the federal government today.
its kind of bizarre, but as ive learned much more aboout our government, and worked closely with the EPA as a consultant/liason for my industry, ive seen huge correlations between how i did my little cheap school projects and how these heads of federal agencies do their work. I really dont like it either--its hard to explain why, but its basically its all about making a name for oneself and having fun for these people. Theres not a sense of duty among them, but more a sense of personal fun-its always the main focus. They will just ignore any part of anything that isnt fun for them. No sense of duty at all.
State government isnt like this, though for some reason-at least where I live in TX. But then again, this is a state where one could get a meeting with the Attorney General at the capitol by just showing up at his office and being willing to wait for him to go to lunch and maybe push him to his car lol. (it was greg abbot back then.......didnt matter who you were and what your issue was. (in my case there was some railroading going on in a state tax court for a business my family owned after the accountant embezzled the tax checks....he gave a number to call, and that guy fixed it..got us a new hearing. Id never even met abbot before....so obviously he got my vote later for gov lol. i know that was kind of a tangent but i had to mention it. pretty cool guy...actually gave a rats ass
2 husbands? Eee
Hard copies of my Dad's Army Air Force records are gone.....flew the Hump in Burma as a B-29 flight engineer (was an aeronautical mechanic instructor before the war with Japan broke out..)
Distinguished Flying Cross, flew almost all of the raids out of Tinian on the B-29 into Tokyo and the surrounding major targets. He was one one of the greatest generation!
I was one of the 2,200 working at the record center that year. I was a temp, and before the fire worked in the office putting paper records onto microfilm. I knew a back way into the facility, and the next night some friends and I went there to observe the fire. Here it was almost 24 hours after the fire had started, and flames were still leaping 100' into the air. Quite spectacular.
My father was still alive in 1973, and I remember seeing this event on the Evening News with him and discussing the ramifications. He fought in Europe during WWII. He never talked about his service, driving a M5A1 Stuart Light Tank for the Army as a recon vehicle, as it was one of the fastest tanks in the war. At a crew reunion, one year, one of his buddies told me of the time they helped liberate the Dachau Concentration Camp, and as my father was Jewish, he was able to help with translation as he spoke Yiddish. My father never told me about any of his service, and I was glad to know that he did more than just drive his tank. As he passed in 1982, due to a careless driver, I have tried to get copies of his Army papers, but, so far, I've had no luck. No one every contacted us about either his papers, or the fact that they might have been lost due to this massive fire. On the other hand, the Army is still all about, "hurry up and wait".
What a service he did! Wonderful story.
No wonder he didn't want to talk about it. Liberating dachau would be one of the most shocking and harrowing things a G.I. could've gone through at that point
A goodfriend of mine upon discharge from the Marine Corp had his records replicated in triplicate and he brought his original home with him, he sent two by registered mail to his mother and one
to his sister when he arrived home he went to directly to his local bank and put them in a safety deposit box there. Rest in Peace Louis Aden service in Vietnam 68/69
After his death in 1996, I sent a request for my dad's service records-- he was an Army Lieutenant in the Korean War. Luckily I found his Service Number in his daily devotional book. The website warned you that about 90% of records had been lost. To my surprise, about two months later, a copy of his records arrived in a plain brown envelope.
Lucky for you the only Army documents destroyed by that fire covered Army personnel from 1912 up until 1950 and Air Force personnel from 1912 to 1963 so just about all records of soldiers serving in the army that served in the Korean War were unaffected
How do you go about that? My dad passed and was stationed in Germany around 1949 or so - would like to know his record
I’m starting to hunt down my father’s WWII and Korean War DD-214. I hope I’ll be lucky and his records weren’t destroyed. Miss you Dad.
I now understand why I would see adds in the back of my dad's VFW and Legion magazines where vets were looking for wittiness to accidents and injuries. these were older vets looking for benefits and there were no records left. until now I never understood why these guy were running the adds.
I don't recall ever seeing Ms. History Guy before, and whether I have or not, I was thrilled to see her in this compilation! Lost records are unbearably sad, and I'm glad you've given them some memory by reminding us to remember history, however we can.
And a cameo by the History Cat...
Lost my Korean War Navy veteran father 3 years ago this week. 😢 Still miss him. RIP MM3 MJ Sanders USS Manchester CL 83 and USS Pritchett DD 561.
Condolences to you yes my dad was in the army on the Chosin Reservoir fighting not just a Chinese but Russians too I found out.
Stand strong with his memory and I guess we just got to be glad we were raised by such great men. Take care of yourself.
Peace
@@feellucky271 I met a retired General who was also at Chosin several years ago...
@@RetiredSailor60 Tough men they were.
Along with finding out about the Russians I was amazed even though it was only a few new things I found out.Like how cold it(I was in AF and flying at altitude the cold was insane and it was aggravated by the lack off oxygen)but the fact that they had very little winter gear it was probably the most brutal of conditions on a battlefield,peeing on rifles to get them to work,mortar and grenades wouldn't detonate and just really crazy, the agonies the old man went through I can only try to imagine.He put me thru Hell but I can put it in better perspective now.
Take care William
@@feellucky271 Thank you sir. You take care as well. Soar high AF. I'm a US Navy veteran
@@RetiredSailor60 Go Navy!
Good to see you and my salute to your dad William.
Peace
Fellow (retired) librarian here. Thanks for the video, Alexandria's library has always been a favorite historical topic of mine and I appreciate the research you obviously brought to the presentation. Very well done!
My late wife's dad's records were lost in this fire. He served in the USAAC as an MP
I'd like to see more presentations by Ms. History Guy. She did a stellar presentation on the library at Alexandria, for which I thank her very much, but now I have to revise everything I know about the great library.
"Always keep an open mind, and always be willing to change your mind. Learn something new or relearn something."
She pointed out the impact Library of Alexandria, which was others saw the need to create and protect libraries so history can be preserved.
And more appearances by the History Cat...
The records of my father US Army 1950-1953; my Uncle Loreto US Army 1942-1946, WWII Pacific; and my Uncle Greg Korea 1950-1953 all lost their records. My father suffered injuries in a nuclear accident in 1953 but without medical records, no claims could be determined in later years.
Well that's interesting seeing as how this only affected Army personnel records from 1912 until 1950 and Air Force records from 43 to 64 after Hubbard alphabetically
Hey my Dad was Navy, wwII.
He tried to get his.pension and was told he 'didn't exist'.
My dad had four uncles in WWII, including one in a Japanese POW camp in the Philippines. Most of, if not all of those records are lost.
My father-in-law's army records were lost, including his Bronze Star citation he received while serving in Korea.
Also unable to locate my dad's bronze star citation. We were unaware he even received this recognition until after his death and interment at a veterans cemetery. Dad only spoke about his service a handful of times so we will most likely never know.
My father's records were destroyed in that fire. Fortunately, his local VFW had researched each member and had a good file. There were impersonators even then. Good Luck, Rick
So true. There were many claiming to have served but didn't. They were issued ID cards to boot.
My profound gratitude for posting this 🙏 My father's U.S. Army personnel records from WW II are among those who were never recovered. And, as a (retired) fire protection specialist, it's heartbreaking to know that so many such files as well as the building could have been salvaged by the installation of a sprinkler system (and with far less water damage.) Thanks very much for posting and be safe.
I initially read thumbnail as "One Hour of History" lost and spent first minute trying to understand how a fire could destroy only one hour of history! Doh!
Ditto
A few years ago I wrote you a comment about an idea of doing a story or stories about the fire that my fathers service records were lost in. I also hoped you would do a series on history lost. When I came across this today I about fell out of my chair. I don't know if I helped with the idea of the stories but I was moved and blessed beyond words. You have done far more than I could have ever dreamed of. Thank you for the fantastic job you have done and are doing. I want you to know that you have helped me deeply with my lost history by remembering in such a meaningful way the loss to history and the families of rich stories that now can not be remembered or told. Thank you.
The biggest loss of history ever was the destruction of the ancient library of Alexandria. Period.
Just imagine how much more we would know about the ancient world if even a small part of that collection had survived.
I would also add to that the destruction of the Mesoamerican codices and other records during the conquest of Mexico, and frankly also the rest of Latin a
America.
The loss of knowledge with the destruction of the Library of Alexandria is often over exaggerated. It was damaged or destroyed at least three times and it should be borne in mind that most of the contents of the library were copied from sources located elsewhere. It's ultimate decline was tied with the decline of the Ptolemaic Dynasty itself. Once things were on the way down scholars went elsewhere to do their work. By the time the Romans ruled Egypt, the institution was a shadow of its former self
and other libraries in the rest of the Mediterranean had risen in prominence.
I'm so happy you have been doing this long enough to put these best of long form videos together
The loss of the 1890 Census is one big blank hole of all family histories.
A lot of us never heard about the loss until we tried to find our Dad's WWII records and were told those had been lost in a fire. Thanks for the information.
Fantastic presentation, THG! And, Mrs. THG, your presentation was great, and love the continuity of the bowtie tradition between Mr. & Mrs.!
It makes me cry at the amount of history that was destroyed.
No sprinkler system; seriously? Who exactly made that decision? A picture of his bright and shinning face would be appreciated for prosperity.
Posterity too, you got to wonder about this autocorrect spelling system yeah?
I used to live near St.Louis and I remember when this happened. As The History Guy says "History Deserves to Be Remembered" Thanks for this video.
My grandfather, Gunner's Mate 2nd Class Will Colbert's records fortunately survived. I remember the Records Center fire. I was 9 years old at the time.
My Grandfathers records where lost Army Air Corps. He was stationed in New Guinea as a air traffic controller on the 7 mile strip.
My grandpa's records were destroyed in the MPRC fire -- I was able to find an interview with one of the men from his unit at the Library of Congress, which softened the blow a little, but it's hard to even get my head around the scale of that loss.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that no fire protections measures were in place. No firewalls, no smoke detectors and no sprinklers. Omissions of this magnitude are simply criminal.
My Dad was a Merchant Marine in WW2. When they were again given veterans status in 1988 the only proof he had were his seamen papers all the other records had been lost. Thankfully they were accepted, he was a proud man when he got that letter and so was I.
For the alleged archeticts and engineers who deny 911, here we have the 6th floor of a 6 floor building that buckled from a fire but they still deny that 20-40 floors of a tower could withstand fire AND damaged structure from huge jets smashing through them.
What is an alleged architect?
You do know that the World Trade Center buildings were constructed completely different with an exo-skeleton fascia and support system rather than relying completely on internal pillars and conventional design, yes? I'm not sure exactly what it is you're trying to say.
What so few also recognize is that the WTC was a fatally flawed structure. By putting so much of its strength in its skin, it lost a lot of rigidity when something as large as an airplane slammed through it. Also, its open floorplan allowed large debris to penetrate deep into the structure and damage support columns far from the point of impact, and the fire to spread unchecked.
@@WardenWolf Plenty of people recognize it as architects and ordinary people have studied and investigated it ever since the attack it's probably one of the most studied buildings in the world so plenty of people realize it wasn't fatally flawed it took an astounding amount of punishment and actually burned for hours before it did collapse which if it was an inside job then they knew that's what would happen but lesser buildings would have collapsed much sooner.
@@feellucky271 One who alleges to be an architect yet doesn't show the expertise or acuity of a real one. Said "architects" such as those who claim 'the WTCs couldn't have collapsed from the impacts and fires' despite dozens of floors above said impacts and fires. The buckling experienced by this fire had zero floors above, only the roof and only a fire. No columns were physically damaged/removed, proving that fire alone was more than capable of causing a collapse. This makes their claim absurd.
Hello Mrs. History Guy! I enjoyed your segment, especially when your BIG furbaby decided to get into the act! Thanks to both of you for this wonderful video!
Imagine being a NASA engineer at the vacuum testing center and getting a call about drying out some documents.
Some of them may have dried out their own files.
The idiot that made the decision not to install fire detection and suppression should have been punished severely.
Hopefully the government learned from this mistake, but human history does not support that behavior.
Wow! I've been watching this channel for a while now and today I was looking at my town in Wikipedia and it listed YOU as a resident. Hello neighbor!
NEVER put all your eggs in one basket. Nobody learns anything from history.
It might not be a bad thing if the Utah Data Center didn't exist.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center
My dad, uncles and grand fathers records were amount those lost.from WW1 & 2. I was told all records from H-S were lost when I tried to find out about my fathers many medals he was awarded. I was never able to speak to him about it, because he died of cancer 10 months after I got out of the Army.
I’ve been trying to research the soldiers and sailors who were the owners of items that have found their way into my collection. And the Personnel Records fire has been a very difficult road block to get around.
A travesty
This fire didn't affect any Naval records and only affected Army records from 1912 to 1950 and Air Force records from 1947 up until 64 I believe with 75% of military records being destroyed alphabetically after Hubbard so even most of the Air Force Ones still exist and it was mainly Army records that took a hit
The owners of items that have found their way into your collection are exactly that the owners did you ever stop and think that these quote unquote items Maybe the only connection of family has to that Soldier it's idiots like you who probably have no connection to military service for this country who ignorantly collect items that should rightfully be returned to the soldiers family and the worst part is if you do it with absolutely no regard to the memory of that Soldier
@@minorclips7541 Many thanks for the info. I had always been under the impression that there were a small amount of US Marines records lost as well. But the Clarification is welcome! Many Thanks again!
I have been searching for my father's Army Air Corp WW2 records. He served mostly in Colorado at an airport base there, in the photography unit. We believe his records burned here. He passed away long ago and was cremated. I would like to have a final resting place for him in the National Cemetery in our city.
Ms History Guy kills it! I would love to see her develop in a parallel channel! 🤗
I think I've seen a couple of the pieces in this video, BUT I liked this longer form with a theme a lot!
What a treat and a surprise from the history lady simply adorable and obviously well read
N tks for covering this, as an iraqi freedom vet I know how difficult the gov and paperwork can be n have met WW2 vets that stuff was lost!
If we could ever find what was in ancient libraries, even only 50%, it would likely change the world.
The Book of Mormon - Another Testament of Jesus Christ is a volume of priceless ancient records. You're right, it Can change the world if people will only read it and follow its precepts, along with the Bible! 😊
Oh golly gosh, the History Guy brings it again. Superb and meticulously assembled and presented research often featuring little known events that without The History Guy, could quite easily be lost forever.
The loses to humanity as a whole, from the destruction of the libraries of written, or photographic history..., makes me very sad. Imagine what we've had to "relearn" as a human species, from all of the history contained within the records that have been lost.
I love this format, as well as having Mrs History Guy presenting. She's awesome and looks good in the bow tie. Hopefully you'll put together more videos grouped like this.
Also, it was sad to hear about all those lost military records from such a crucial time. I have 3 uncles and a grandfather who served in WWll. These segments are good reminders on why we save these documents, etc, and why we need to ensure their protection.
💜✌️😎
Agree.
And I think they should get that cat a bow-tie.
@@eatiegourmet1015 never would have imagined his wife would look like that. What an interesting couple!
Thanks for this. My Father's records were lost in this tragedy.
This episode was magnificent and tragic at the same time.
Mine was huge loss to all. I had every " Original" yes Original Beatles album on the Capitol label burn up in a house fire. I would have donated or given them away to a musical cause upon my death or before. A staggering loss. I traded my G.I. Joe to a friend for " Meet The Beatles" in the second grade.
My best to your wife and Pookie!
Tragic loss! Mine were far from pristine & lost to a vengeful ex with a number of other classics.
My father, who was a USAF Capt. He was a P-51 pilot at the end of WWII. He then volunteered for Korea where he was an F-86 pilot. He just passed away on February 1st at the age of 97. His records were lost in this fire.
July 12th is my birthday. I became a "professional' photographer at age 14, submitting photographs to local weekly newspapers. I never made photos using nitrate film (that was before my time). I had friends who owned a 16mm projector and had a bunch of old newsreels which they screened for a lucky few of us. The film had a tendency to occasionally hang up in the "gate" with a very bright and hot light focussed on it causing it to incinerate a few frames. One of the newsreels showed the Tacoma Narrows Bridge disaster that taught engineers an important lesson about resonant frequency causing uncontrolled oscilation that had to accounted for. We thought the entire event was funny looking. The only death that occured because of the bridge collapse was that of an unlucky dog named Tubby who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It was fun running the projector forwards and backwards for comic effect. My life is recorded in the thousands of rolls of film I exposed and developed.
My lady's dad's WW II records were completely lost.
Now we digitize everything and make multiple backups.
This is absolutely heartbreaking. My grandmother served in the Army, and my grandfather in the Navy during WWII. I’ve tried searching for their records online, but haven’t found much. Now I’m worried that they’re just gone.
My father's records from the Korean War were lost. He passed away young and didn't talk much about his time there. When I asked him he only talked about his perceptions of the country and it's people. All I have are bits and pieces of his medals, insignia and some paperwork. Big loss, obviously caused by not people who didn't understand what the cost of the loss actually was/is.
I was living in Saint Louis when the fire occurred. Watch the heavy smoke on the news on TV. The people of the whole metropolitan area grieved for weeks afterward.
They knew it would affect many veterans for years to come. I have often wondered how the computer age has affected the situation since.
Please do a video on the Connecticut ship’s captain shipwrecked off Morocco early in the 1800s and held as a slave. James Riley. He wrote a best seller about it. P.s. love your channel!
This is a total embarrassment to the National Archives and records center. As usual no one is held responsible adequately. Move it out of the humid south to further north.
Incredibly, thoroughly researched.
1st class Mrs History....great team work!!!
My father-in-law was a Korean war veteran (army) and no substantiation of his service in the war exists. This prevent my mother-in-law from receiving combat veteran assisted living benefits.
I worked on some of the new federal government archive buildings that were in various stages of construction from dried in to site prep. The new ones are like compartmentalized concrete fire safes. One building had concentric rings of 24 inch thick concrete walls every 22 feet on center. Some idiot forgot to block the walls for electrical so I had to drill a whole lot of concrete and then fire seal around all the conduits. Nitrate & nitrocellulose burns like crazy. One of the owners of Harmony Guitar died from injuries he sustained in a nitro-celluloid fire that started in the back of a refuse truck. The drive of the truck jumped out and ran away, but the co-owner of the factory heroically jumped into the truck and drove it away from the factory. He died about a year later. If you want to see a material like nitrate burn put a Bic lighter to a tortoise guitar pick.
This story is one of our nation's biggest loss! 😢
How could the FBI not determine the cause of the fire, but at the same time completely rule out arson? These are mutually exclusive.
1. They ruled out arson.
2. They were unable to determine the exact cause
@@davidtrindle6473 How could the FBI rule out arson independently? Either they know the root cause of the fire, or they don't, in which case arson would still be a possibility. Am I missing something here?
My Aunt kept a detailed account of her life in London 39/45,in later years she lent it to someone who lost it!She wasn't best pleased,luckily her sister my Mum is still going strong at 91 and recounts this era in clear detail.
I'm so glad you're here to tell these stories. We may not have all the records lost, but we have this record to tell us that these events happened and how important they were.
it is unbelievable that they would willingly destroy the census records
Is it really, though?
Re: The July 12, 1973 fire at the US Personnel Record Center on Page Blvd. in Overland, Mo:
I grew up about a mile from Center, in the northwest corner of University City, Mo, a block east of Woodson Rd, our border with Olivette, the first fire department called, We were just south of Page Blvd, the border with Overland Mo. A few blocks west of the intersection on Page Blvd. was the looming, blocks-long edifice of the US Personnel Record Center dominated the horizon. I was five years-old when the center opened. Situated on a major east-west boulevard e'd take downtown, ending just north of the Arch, my family frequently drove by. My mother, who had been a civilian typist for the Fifth Army District for the Duration, never failed to proudly remind my sister and me that "what she did in the War" was stored there.
Ten years later we moved further west to the extreme southwest corner of a different school district,. But I was soon driving. Most of my high school friends had also moved to the new district. We often cruised by the center on weekends. I frequently proudly pointed out to my friends that "what Mom did in the War" was stored there.
My father died a year later. A year after that Mom and I move to a new condominium two blocks south of Page, two miles west of the Center, at the far Northeast end of the district's diagonal. Page Blvd was now my main thoroughfare. It became ever more so when I lived at home and attended Washington University. Passing by the several times a week, no amount of familiarity could breed my contempt for the Center. It was truly awesome.
I graduated Wash U at the end of May, 1973 with a BA in Urban Planning w/emphasis on history. Later that summer I planned on driving with my girlfriend as far as Vancouver, BC that summer. Ironically, we left St. Louis ten days before the fire. After spending the Fourth of July with friends in Columbia, Mo, where I had spent my sophomore and first semester junior year at Mizzou before returning to graduate at Wash U,, we headed west. We were probably camping in Eastern Oregon when the fire occurred.
I don't recall hearing about the fire until returning to St Louis six-weeks later. I certainly did not know about the fire until the I drove by the still smoldering ruins the next day, I was amazed at my initial reaction It was like a part of my childhood died, laying in soaked ashes I sympathized with my mother, who must have been devastated. Having lost her husband six years earlier, with her son about to move back to Columbia and leave home for good, the lost her "proud legacy." in the fire have been the Triple-Whammy.
Thank you for reminding me of how awesome the US Personnel record Center was. Thank you for reminding me of history that deserves to be remembered.
PS: I recall from some conspiracy theory re JFK's assassination (I don't recall where) that the fire was, in fact, arson to covered up the destruction of Lee Harvey Oswald's military record. The arson itself was covered-up, ,if not started by the FBI, which, as you know, had offices in the complex. You know anything about that rumor?
When I saw the title the 1st thing I thought about astonishly is exactly what you covered. I live 5 mins from that record center! My late father claimed some Warren Commission records were stored there. I have no proof of that. He always thought it was arson.
Good job!! Love the bow tie Mrs History Guy!
Another use for the census is research for novels. I have a vampire series that starts in the Storyville area of New Orleans in 1900. Everyone in the first 3 chapters, with the exception of the two main characters and one necessary secondary, were taken from the U.S. Census of 1900 and the City Directory. It was fun researching that time and who was where, along with the era itself. I am both a historian (U.S., Antebellum South, and Slavery concentrations) and a genealogist for my family and several friends so I have a lot of experience looking up records. I've hit that 1890 wall several times and it's disheartening to know that those records are gone forever.
Another couple of resources for those looking for information that could help give you at least a snapshot of your relatives of the area in 1890 are the City Directories if your relatives lived in a city of some size and the newspaper archives for that reason. With the Internet, these are both being saved online for searching.
Alexandria library loss has always bothered me. Just the not knowing is disturbing. Thank you for the story and the impetus to know more.
Thank you for this, Dr, Geiger.
Oh nice I was just making my playlist to listen to at work and I was worried I wouldn't be able to make 8 hours worth 🙂
And of course My Dad worked ~45yrs at Douglas
But as a book lover and avid researcher this loss
Makes my extremely sad
Because we may never know what we lost.
Luckily my father’s records were stored in caverns in St. Louis. He served from 1923 to 1954. I obtained those records about 10 years ago. Because of the time he served all forms were completed with old manual typewriters or by hand. Because of the differing offices needing a copy (I suppose) and then all those copies being sent to archives, everything in the box of records I eventually received was in triplicate. It was a gargantuan task that took me about 3-4 months. I was determined to create a “book” of my Daddy’s Naval records for my older son, his name sake. First the triplicates had to be associated and then the most legible selected for inclusion. Then I went through all of those to remove the minutiae and detritus of more than 30 years of service, routine things of no personal significance. Then the challenge of placing all the pages in chronological order. I searched on line and found pictures of some of the ships upon which he served, including the one he commanded in WWII, and included those. Then I took the end product to Kinko’s and had four copies printed and bound. I had decided to make one for each of my children one night while sitting on the floor surrounded by stacks of paper which represented the most significant part of my Daddy’s life. It was history and it was ours. Luckily I retained my original copy in a three hole binder because when my 3 nephews heard of the book they each asked for one, so I had 3 more printed and bound and sent one to each of them. I get tired thinking of the hours and days it took, but I will never regret it. My Daddy lives forever in those pages. Of his seven grandchildren only three ever reproduced, so the book, wherever it is stored, may be passed down and marveled over by future generations. I am so sorry for the people whose relatives records were lost. It would have broken my heart to have asked for my Daddy’s and to be told they no longer existed.
Firefighting in 73; 3/4 coats, pull up boots and no hoods. I remember when the Nomex hoods started coming out about 20 years later and the guys were bitching because it affected their traditional barometer for window bug out because it insulated their ears. When your ears hurt bad enough you know it was time to withdraw from the space!
Unfortunately my grandfather’s US Army WW2 records were included in that loss.
So these are the stories of history where history wasn't saved that are worth saving
So because of ignorance on how a sprinkler system ACTUALLY works, we lost so much history.
There is something to be said about not keeping all our eggs in one basket, but thank you for making this video, I guess it is part of history now.
The History Guy’s content and presentation gets better and better ! I enjoy the variety of content and it gives me a insight into American history and its way of life that is not accessible through the traditional media. So thanks to you both from Australia for a tremendous job. P.S we have a new American Ambassador here in Australia, Caroline Kennedy ! I saw her father in Ireland in the sixties. I was shocked by his and his brothers assassinations and the tragedies that followed the Kennedy family. So thanks again and keep up the good work. 👍🇦🇺
They should of been backing those up to microfiche since the end of WWII. Make four prints of each. One at the archives to be used. One at the archives in an air tight vault. Another copy or two to the National library 📚
My father's, and those of his brothers, records were lost in this fire. Likewise, my Father-in-Law and *his* brothers, lost theirs as well.
Pettyfogging by the archivists that were scared of water basically wiped out generations of service records.
Pettyfogging!! Haven't seen that word used in years!
They should have listened to the Garden City, New York recommendations and installed a sprinkler system. What a tragic loss.
I know. It's almost like they wanted records to be destroyed ; )
My grandfather St John fortunately had a keen interest in photography. We have his WW1 Signal Corps official photo and some others of "dough boys" in the chow line. On the back is his Army US Duluth signal corps. information. Gets me into a lot of Veterans' and Legion clubs.
My sister just burned a box of letters that were exchanged between 1940-1946, without even noticing the rest of her family. Dad enlisted Army Air Corp in 1940, reenlisted for 2 more years. He was a forward engine change hanger tech, and served in North Africa, Philippines, Burma, Hawaii etc. A entire section of my family history is gone, as well as it is a loss to the world. I am struggling with low income, yet have the need to pursue this intentional destruction of world history. Angry can't even describe how I feel.
This is an amazing video and I enjoyed every bit of it. It's another time of the year. One need to set goals and take bold steps in achieving them. Remember success are not obtained overnight. It comes in installment; you get a little bit today and a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate you lose that day of success.
Well, from my own point of view, you need to invest smartly if you need the good things of life. So far I've made over $325k since September last year in raw profits from just q4 of the market from my diversified portfolio strategy and i believe anyone can do it if you have the right strategy, mutual funds takes long time but investing smartly is the key to short term. Most of us tend to pay more attention to the shiniest in the market to the cost of proper diversification.
@Bianca Arlette My portfolio is very much diversified so it's not like I have a particular fund I invest in, plus I don't do that but myself. I follow the trades of Karen Gaye Gray. She is a popular broker you might have heard of. I can correctly say she's worth her salt as a financial adviser as her diversification skills are top notch, I'm saying because I see that in her results as my portfolio grows by averages of 10 to 15% on a monthly basis, unlike I can say for my IRA which has just been trudging along, my portfolio just mirrors what she trades and not just on some particular industries of my choosing.
Normal people buy in at high prices the stock market goes down, companies but stocks back cheaper by introducing some "disaster" Stock rises after a disaster and the cycle repeats.. Having a good entry and exit strategy,will make you succeed in the stock market.
@Hohammad Alshameri Yeah exactly. My money stays right in my account. it's all programmatic,plus it's relatively much easier to set up and connect my accounts than creating a financial pan and drafting investment strategies myself, my account just mirrors her trades in realtime.
When it comes to investment, diversification is key. Also have my interest set on the key sectors based on performance and projected growth, do not invest all your money in a particular sector, diversifying across different sectors is the way to go.
Very much enjoy and appreciate the work you do, sir. Thank you.
I won't lie, this gives me massive existential dread. The idea gets more horrifying when you think back to the Library of Alexandria and beyond.
Thank you sir 🥰👍
My father's airforce records from the Korean War era are gone forever. He carelessly never kept his discharge or DD214 when he came home. I've filled out request for a search shortly after he died. No records have surfaced. It pains me terribly to know I can't get a VA service marker for grave.
As a geographer I ran into data collection problems directly related to loss of 1890 census info. I was creating maps of Southern sharecropping from 1870 to 1930 based on race by each decade. I was able to extrapolate data but did declare the dearth of 1890 data
Fascinating. Thank you
Well done. Thanks!