Something that really frustrates me about Gilmore Girls is Paris's relationship with Asher Fleming. Everyone in the show kind of brushes it off or treats it like its just some juicy gossip, but really this relationship is super problematic and predatory. There is a huge power dynamic between professors and students. When Rory confronted him about the A she got on her paper, making sure it was something she actually earned, not just something to keep her quiet, Asher told her that he'd "strongly advise her against questioning his grading tactics again." This threat was treated way too lightheartedly, when in reality, this is incredibly scary.
As a college student around the same time as Gilmore Girls, unfortunately, a college girl dating an older (or MUCH older) man wasn’t as controversial nor talked about. One of my friends dated a professor 11 years older than her (she was 22 at the time) & it was “cool,” “crazy,” and “exciting”! It’s unfortunate, but that’s how it was until more recently.
Probably until feminists decided that "power imbalances" were wrong loads of college age women actually sought this kind of thing out (and still do but not as openly)
Dave was honestly the best guy on the show. He did everything in his power to make Mrs Kim accept him, he even read the whole bible one night. That he eventually left Lane doesn't count for me since his character was written out of the show because the actor started the OC.
I agree with you there, it was a shame he didn't come back every now, as they had hinted in the show by making Lane's relationship with him seem to become long distance in college, but one could always make the case that they probably broke up off screen before her crush on Zack and Rory and Lorelei plots overshadowed it. I like to think Dave just changed his name to Seth haha.
The dismissal of Emily's emotional abuse will always be my biggest gripe with Gilmore Girls. Near the very end of the show they start to acknowledge her toxicity through Rory living with them but even that wasn't great. It's so hard to watch Emily be so horrible to Lorelai yet Lorelai is constantly portrayed as the melodramatic one. When Lorelai is hurt it's brushed off but if Emily is hurt, then it's a big deal and Lorelai has to apologize and beg for forgiveness even when she wasn't in the wrong.
Thank you! All this "Emily wasn't that bad!" crap gets on my nerves. Yes, the actress who played her killed it, but Emily was stuck-up, manipulative, classist, etc. Sure she improved in the revival, but for the most part, she was toxic.
Especially because almost every time Lorelei genuinely shows gratitude or sincerity to her parents she is punished for it. She treats every interaction with them as transactional for a reason and Rory never seems to take that lesson.
@@KrazyKelor Ikr. Like that episode where She and Emily decide to ditch the food at that fancy spa and go out to dinner. They were having a good time and Lorelei just pushed Emily step outside her comfort zone a little, but Emily couldn't relax a little and gaslit Lorelei into thinking she's a terrible person, even she was the one who wanted to bond so badly.
Christopher almost reminds me of those baby daddies that don’t stick around unless the mother of the child seems to still have feelings for the father or at least wants to be intimate. Throughout most of the show Christopher isn’t present in Rory’s life until lorelai is single, visibly not thriving in her current relationship or shows her subconscious remaining feelings for Christopher. Like he was prepared to marry lorelai at 17 to help raise Rory but when lorelai ran away from her parents and ultimately from the life that involved him he didn’t once try to help reach out or offer support to raise their daughter, but as soon as lorelai allows him back into her life then he suddenly wants to attempt to be a father. I know he was young when everything first happened which explains the immature response to everything but even in the later seasons where lorelai and Christopher begin dating again and even get engaged, all throughout that timeframe Christopher is a decent father and really tries to be there for Rory but again once things are called off with lorelai and he understands there’s no future for them he neglects Rory again and doesn’t reach out for a while. Ultimately I just feel as though Christopher does love rory but (debatably) loves lorelai more which caused for his inconsistent behaviour with his daughter.
The writers also seemed obsessed with making every blonde woman a disliked character , Shane, Sherry , Lindsay, all the moms from Stars Hollow high , Logan’s mom it was very tiring , they could only be either Bimbos or stuck up characters.
I hate the ending Lane had, she deserved so much better. I wish the writers allowed for her to have a career in music, or for her story to develop further in a way that aligned better with her character. It felt like a lot of the negative things her mother suggested came true :(
Yes! It didn't feel like she really chose marriage and kids and a more "ordinary" life. If she wasn't going to have a music career or music adjacent career, then at least they could have shown her really changing her mind about her future.
You know how unlikely it is for a random high school band to make it big? The show was realistic in the sense that most of these wild crazy dreams kids have in high school end up not working out. Just cause someone “deserves” success doesn’t mean they’ll get it. I actually thought Lane had one of the most realistic storylines in the show.
@@SocialExperiment232 Yeah, but she could have ended up teaching music, or maybe running the music store where she'd gotten her first set of drums. Maybe we could have seen her mom handing her antiques store over to Lane, and Lane transforming it into a place where people could buy/sell used instruments and/or learn how to play them.
I also hated the way they treated Lane as sexless. Like, she always liked boys, but she waits until marriage to have her first time then gets pregnant during her first sexual experience and decides she never wants to have sex again, just like her mom. That would have been fine if Lane had always sort of leaned toward her mom's religious teaching, but she didn't, so it didn't gibe with her character, and it felt like the writers just didn't know what to do with an Asian character.
Exactly, not only that but there are so many things (almost everything) about Jess that annoy me . I don’t get how everyone just ignores everything, not only that but love Jess. People r just after looks…
@@equinoxXIIIthat was before he met his father. Rory said "Jess, stop" and he didn't back off. She had to repeat it for him to stop, and though he did, he gave her grieve for that. I like Jess, I really do, as a well-written, deep character, but that doesn't mean all of the things he did are justified
Jackson lost me when he felt justified embarrassing & punishing Sookie by not buying her basket because he refused to be a direct communicator and ask to move in with her. He projected, whined, and she deserved way better.
@@theratrach Yes, he is a really bad communicator. But to me it is more about the plot. In any kind of comedy there are bad communicators because the writers think it is funny and create funny situations. Side note: it is not.
I would've loved to see an episode where we see 16yr old Lorelai working as a maid, living in a garden shed with Rory. They would bring it up once on awhile, but it didnt feel like it impacted their lives at all.
Yes! They just skipped that part! I think that's why we never really get to see them have financial problems, because that was all in the past and wasn't talked about.
yk what got me with sookies kitchen was when her friend came over to see her and the guy just started helping cook😭😭😭like he didn’t even wash his hands, just started chopping stuff
I agree with the double dipping of the spoon with other dishes and sharing the spoon with Lorelei. I didn’t really think the layout of the kitchen was bad
The real issues I have with the show have to do with the relationship between Lorelai and Rory. Lorelai being so immature is the reason Rory was so hyper focused on academics and being responsible because ONE of them had to be. She grew up fast because her mother never did. That dynamic put so much unfair pressure on young rory and for lorelai always saying "she just turned out that way" no girl YOU did that TO her!! Another thing I dislike is how Lorelai never let Rory shine or have her own accomplishments it's always WE. "We applied" "we got in". Like Rorys highschool graduation, lorelai had to make rory asking for money about her and also made her announcement about the Inn right in the middle of the ceremony. That couldn't wait till after ?! Or when rory was in the top 3% lorelai chose that moment to accept a proposal. I know no one is going to read all this but I had to let it out lol
you're absolutely right, Lorelai was desperately living through Rory claiming her as the only thing she ever did right and could not even address Rory when she made huge mistakes like letting Jess drive her car, stealing the boat and the affair with Dean. She would never discipline her and admit that Rory could do wrong instead she blamed everyone else even when Rory herself admitted she was at fault.
Lorelei low-key had Peter Pan syndrome if we're being honest. Yes, she took on responsibility at a young age, with working at the Inn, but she always had a childlike mentality. I think that's one of the reasons why she acted a little immature in the beginning. She and Rory basically grew up together.
Also probably why it irked me that Lorelei never let Rory face ANY consequences for her actions, she was never allowed to fail bc Lorelei would throw it in her face that she was meant to be the perfect one. Yes Lorelei was a “cool” mom but she also was very judgemental which why Rory couldn’t go her about her ordeals with her relationship
@@liz8382yeah i hated what they did with paris. She was intense to the end of the OG season but she had shown growth and then in a year in the life it was a total regression
Haha this stopped me in my tracks! Even if you miss Rory explaining it to Dean in episode 1, Lorelai says it again in the Dean's office in episode 2 ... then sometime later there is mention of Rory/Lorelai being named after the great grandmother, and even then, if you manage to make it to season 4, the episode The Reigning Lorelai talks about all three of them and how Lorelai is now the reigning Lorelai and one day Rory will be the reigning Lorelai. Honestly impressed this managed to go over her head so. many. times! That's skill! 😂
@@sarainglis5886Also when Rory and Lorelai announce that Rory is going to Yale, Lorelai says something along the lines of "Everyone in this room named Lorelai is happy", referring to her and Rory.
I thought so too....at first. But when you think about it, it makes sense. Paris was a very aggressive and independent person. Doyle was, too, but hers was more extreme. Its easy to see Paris trying to be the "man of the house" and Doyle getting fed up with her behavior.
That’s definitely a carry-over joke from the 80s and 90s sitcom era. Indian food in America wasn’t as prevalent to white American’s diet then and if you don’t grow up eating many spices, you may not like it. Is it a good joke? No. But it was part of the lexicon. Also, SATC had a scene where Miranda and her date went to eat Indian food and he immediately got diarrhea.
The whole town was ready to burn Rory’s boyfriend at the steak for breaking up without knowing the reasons or if they were troubled like Jess. Like it creepy how the town treated the boys especially when they were 16-17
A few opinions: -The April story was unnecessary -Jess was a prick but he matured and turned out amazing -Dean rushing to marry Lindsay was ridiculous -Lane should have lived in NY and make it as a musician -Luke was a good friend but not a great partner -Rory was supposedly a great reader but spent hours watching TV with her mom -Lorelai staying over the first night at Yale. Really? -Mrs. Kim had a good development and how her relationship with Lane evolved was awesome -Rory dropping out Yale was incoherent -Choosing Yale over Harvard made no sense And one final question: -wtf happened to Kirk's chest?
Richard GIlmore!! Does anyone remember him RUINING Jason Stiles' career WHILE Lorelai was dating him? OMG he in many ways was painted as a soft 'everyone can relate to' quieter but underneath caring grandfather but the deeper you look back you see he is the emblem of waspy elite capitalists, his true colors come out with how he betrays Jason in a shady deal with Jason's dad (on a preppy country club golf course of all places) for his own economic self-preservation. Jason made mistakes too but he didn't deserve THAT. We even learned in one episode with Richard's mom how he had lost a big gamble on money in his youth and his wealthy parents had to bail him out. He gets to act very nonchalant and sweet bc he has such generational security, but when you would see him at risk of losing it, that's when you would see how vicious he can really be. It's one of those things where if you're accepted in his world you'll probably like him a lot bc he treats you well, but dang if there were people of color in their inner circle (like LANE, EMILY used to call her Rory's ASIAN FRIEND repeatedly in one episode) you'd feel the weight of who they truly are (old money, semi white supremacists basically), you could even find their love for Rory was conditional on how much she fit into the old money world with her academic and intellectual interests. thoughts?
Facts! Richard was just as manipulative as Emily. The difference is her manipulation was more "in your face" whereas his was more subtle. Richard knew what he was doing when he set up that Yale interview for Rory, and Lorelei called him out on it. Not to mention he had secret dinners with his ex for 4 decades and tried to play the victim when Emily got upset.
What Richard did to Jason was so shady. And it ruined a relationship for Lorelai that Richard and Emily actually approved of! Though it shouldn't have. There is no reason why Lorelai would take her Dad's side in that fight. Poor Jason was screwed over by her father and his own father and then Lorelai bails on him. If Emily had pulled some shenanigans on Jason, would Lorelai have taken HER side? I doubt it.
omg yes the luke breastfeeding thing pissed me off too! it’s legit so out of line, especially for me because i’ve been raised by a family who doesn’t make a big deal of nudity in general. like ik in lots of other families/society in general, it’s made into a big deal. but in my house my parents walk around naked, so especially for me when i see ppl being like OMG someone using boobs FOR THEIR PURPOSE to FEED BABIES 🤢 like bruh stfu 😂theyre only boobs
It wasn't just Lorelei who would seek out things she felt Emily disapproved of. Emily also, due to her rigid conditioning, held to behavior she may not have liked. Like when she had a drink with Lorelai and danced with a man, she was having fun but then bottled up again because 'a mother has to act a certain way'. Or when she was watching a movie in the hotel with them. You can tell she was relieved to 'loosen up' sometimes, but felt that was inappropriate. Kinda sad, they probably all could have had some good memories if they didn't feel they all had to adher to their prospective 'molds'
I hate Jess , everyone likes him cause of his looks nd the bad boy thing ( if they say anything else they’re lying to themselves). Yes , his life had problems too but they don’t excuse his behaviour at all. I didn’t like any of Rory’s boyfriends. Nd I agree Rory’s character went downhill too. Jess was rude and problematic. He forced himself on Rory in Kyle’s bedroom , never talked about that . Logan cheated , then tried to blame the girls for accidentally telling her the truth about his actions as if THAT was wrong. Dean treated Lindsay horribly.
Thank you so much for talking about food addiction and binge eating disorder. This show does trigger me (I have BED) and I love that you mention the issues in the show with food and fat shaming. I always felt hurt and confused about it, especially because of sukis body type. Suki is meant to be lorelais best friend and yet she talks about people like suki in such a hurtful way. I love the show but this side of it is a sore point for me 100%. I would love to hear you talk about Lane's storyline.
Totally agree about Sookie. She was never safe in her friendship with Lorelei. So many moments make me so angry. The moment she holds up the large underwear Luke got her at the diner….her comments were disgusting. I honestly wanted Sookie to overhear so she knew who she was really best friends with. The token fat friend doesn’t make the blatant fatphobia and body shaming okay. It kinda makes it more disgusting.
Honestly, after all the boys, I’m team Paul. He’s nice, remembers conversations with Rory’s family and friends, was patient with Rory for at least a year and never got angry at her for abandoning or ghosting him all the time. He never cheated and didn’t blame Rory at all when he broke up with her. Team Paul all the way!
@@Anthony-945 I'd say they were equally awful. They were both controlling, arrogant and straight up stalkerish. Don't get me wrong, Logan was in no way a saint either, but at least he let never tried to hide it.
I've never really believed that Luke and Lorelai had a healthy relationship. Sure, they had a nice friendship, but could you imagine being a young child in their household with the consrant bickering and fighting? They had completely different things they wanted out of life, and Lorelai ended up walking away from a lot of things to give Luke the lifestyle that he wanted. She walked on eggshells constantly for that relationship. I grew up like that. My first marriage was like that. I would never want to live like that again. They were only a great couple when Lorelai gave in on everything. They were only a great couple when Luke got what he wanted. Their relationship is nothing but an endless path of eggshells.
I don’t disagree but to me it seems like Luke has always been the “giver” in the relationship. He gave up his dream of the Whikham House because Lorelei could not give up her home. Then when Luke had a life changing event (whoa new kid in my life!) and needed some time to get that settled, Lorelei sulked about it making it about her and then hit him with an ultimatum out of the blue and she blew up the relationship when he didn’t immediately agree with her.
@Iamjustherek All true. But what stands out about those situations is Luke's behavior. He didn't initially tell Lorelai about the house, and we all know what happened with April. In every situation like that, Luke either lied through hiding information, or he made decisions without her. I absolutely understand Lorelai's ultimatum. Luke was so antagonistic toward her when it came to April. He cut her out so much, and Lorelai reached a reasonable breaking point. She wasn't irrational. It didn't come out of the blue. He pushed and pushed her until she broke under all of it. All she wanted him to do was include her in this part of his life, and he flat refused to do it.
Omg and much as I shipped these two, I won't lie....y'all are right. Yes, they had great chemistry, but they lacked communication, argued alot, and for a guy who claimed to be "all in" from the jump, Luke was quick to leave the relationship at the smallest inconvenience. Looking back, they should've had Lorelei stay with Jason Styles. Those two were a lot alike and he's one of the few people who undrdstood the flaws of the privileged world she came from.
@@rachelmartin5187 mmm was just thinking about Jason too. They were a great match, but I do agree with others that I don't think they'd help each other grow and mature bc they're too similar. Although Jason was the only bf of lorelai (that I can remember) where SHE compromised for HIS nuttiness, and not the other way around.
Jess and Lorelei are kind of parallels of each other (or just have a lot of things in common? idk you decide lol) *sarcasm as a defense mechanism *victims of child neglect (emotional and/or physical) *both leaving home at a young age *self-made success stories *having bad relationships with their parents (especially their mothers!) they can never quite end *being replaced by their parents in some way and the inadequacy that brings (for Jess: his sisters, for Lorelei: Rory)) I kind of wish they'd had a chance to commiserate. That was never going to happen, of course, because they've always had a contentious relationship from the first time they spoke. Lorelei going up to Jess and and telling him that his feelings "might" be justified and that he is lucky to be here was just condescending and presumptuous imo, she's normally so much better at talking to teens but that scene always makes me cringe 😅 That first scene together is the ultimate "I think we got off on the wrong foot" moment for me, because I genuinely think Jess and Lorelei could've gotten along had that conversation gone a different way.
I have a daughter and you shouldn’t be friends with your daughter until she’s grown, has a job, moves out, and becomes self sufficient. A daughter needs a mother to be a mother more than she needs her to be her friend. That’s way children have friends and peer groups. The Lorelai and Rory relationship drove me crazy. Especially when she took Rory to Chilton on her first day. You know she had other clothes and a working alarm clock.
What made me uncomfortable was how Rory was often more of a mother to Lorelai than the other way round. Lorelai is always being immature and Rory has to be the responsible one: like when she had to pay Lorelai 5 dollars just to go to Friday night dinner, many small things that are easy to overlook and often played as a joke but I think this must have been really emotionally taxing on Rory having such an immature mother. It forced her to grow up so fast, and everyone praised Rory for being so mature, not like other kids, which I found really weird. Like when Rachel said she'd have kids if she could be certain they would turn out like Rory, Lorelai always saying she did nothing and Rory was just born like that. I think this probably contributed to her infamous "downfall" too.
Oh, definitely. But you know Rory being a mini-adult is one of the most realistic things about the show. In a sense, she and her mom grew up together. When Lorelai had Rory, she was still a kid herself. Even though she stepped up and went to work, she still had a child mentality. Hell, so did Christopher. Even though they tried their best, they leaned on their 16 year old daughter ALOT instead of an actual therapist.
When the fridge breaks and Lorelei yells “I hate my life!” And walks out on Rory at the table. I feel SO bad for Rory! When you’ve experienced parents that cope with stress like that, it effects you. I can’t imagine saying that knowing my kid could hear it. The feeling is valid, but if you’re overwhelmed by a broken appliance, take a lap. Let it out without emotionally dumping on your kid when you could be teaching resilience in the face of a crappy situation (to be fair sometimes Lorelei demonstrates this well, like with the hotel fire she kept her cool mostly, which is wild because it’s so much more serious) The parentified child stuff in the script is sooo real for kids with immature parents, and even knowing the show is about generational trauma I hate how often Lorelei’s immaturity as a parent is played for laughs.
Lorelai borderline parentified Rory but they have a deeply enmeshed and unhealthy codependence on each other. The show pokes at it, Christopher outright says that Lorelai left him out of their dynamic, and Lorelai was impulsive and made Rory the emotional caretaker for her. It was deeply uncomfortable to see upon my rewatch. Rory was entitled and bratty because Lorelai didn’t set firm boundaries with her. She was a generally good kid so she never had to do any real parenting. Rory never had a consequences and she definitely needed them. When Rory didn’t come home to her graduation because she got on a bus and left the STATE? Probably a grounding is needed.
How would it have turned out if Rory took after her mother's wild teenage party girl ways ? Would lorelai have still been the "cool mom" and ran with it or would she get the tiniest perspective of what her own parents went through with her.
I never finished the show, but something that made me uncomfortable was how Paris friends were portrait. They we treated as dumb bimbos who slept around with everyone, had no personality and their whole purpose was to be there to make Paris and Rory look better. They liked more girly frivolous things and that was made fun of. There was no need honestly. Paris and Rory were already established as smart and academically driven, it was so unnecessary to be like "Haha! Look, they are not like THIS girls!"
They mention Rory is called after her mother Lorelai multiple times, in the first season when she starts at Chilton the teacher reads her name and asks how she’d like to be called. Also it is mentioned when talking about Richards mother “the original Lorelai”.
I don’t remember that Rory pretended Logan was her first, and I’ve watched this show a zillion times. And Lorelei and Sookie don’t talk to the Dragonfly owner’s son, they talk to the person in charge of the will, I don’t know how we call this person, he is in charge of the legal aspect, he is not a son in grief. Don’t forget that this is a show, not a real story. If every relationship was perfect it would be so boring and there would be nothing to say. We are watching precisely because there is something wrong. It’s a pity to drag down a story which is supposed to be funny, even if there also are dramatic aspects. We will never eat in Sookie’s kitchen, it’s an imaginary kitchen and it is supposed to be fun. Personally, I’ve always seen Dean’s abusive aspect, the writers maybe didn’t insist on it but they didn’t hide it either. Dean is jealous, it’s annoying but he also had very good reasons to be jealous. It’s not an excuse but a part of the explanation. I don’t especially like Dean, too macho man for my taste even if he is rather hot. Also the scene with the breastfeeding was precisely to ridicule men’s reaction like that. It was very realistic because often men react exactly like that, which is totally ridiculous. This scene was not playing against breastfeeding, on contrary, it was playing against men reacting by such a ridiculous way. Luke was a little hard on Jess but it’s exactly what Jess needed, someone to tell him where was the limit. That’s why Jess loved the pond where Luke pushed him in the water, because it was the first time that a paternal figure was caring enough to tell him to stop. Liz sending her son to Luke is a very complicated matter. The best thing would have been her moving to Stars Hollow with her son and letting Luke help her with her son’s education. We can see that like if she didn’t care, it’s not as simple as that. Some parents really don’t know how to handle a teenager, especially a boy who obviously is very difficult to handle. Boys often need a paternal figure at a certain age, the mother becomes not enough anymore. I know, I raised two boys, fortunately they had their father around but I can tell you that as a mother, I suddenly became obsolete when they turned fourteen/fifteen. They need a paternal role model, this is why the Luke solution here didn’t totally surprise me. All that to say, I don’t think that we must take all this at the first degree, the scenario is purposely controversial so we can still talk about it years later. The only thing which disturbed me a little was the body shaming, especially in the revival, it was not necessary and not even funny.
I notice that in most of these videos, Rory never gets blamed for overstepping boundaries. She’s too nice to guys that she’s into when she’s in a relationship. Of course the guys are to blame for their behavior but Rory never lets them know anything like she didn’t get Logan know about Jess visiting her at her grandparents the night before. I’m sure Logan wouldn’t have liked him in her room with her at her grandparents house. The guys get too angry but Rory doesn’t have boundaries and doesn’t consider their feelings when little things like that happen.
The thing about the revival is that Rory’s arc is more of what the final season was supposed to be. That was always intended to be her story, as disappointing as it is, that’s the point. And it’s actually pretty realistic. I just think the fact that this was meant to happen originally, back when she was younger explains why everything is harder to watch. When there’s this huge disconnect due to everyone aging, but the story stays the same, you have characters who should be mature by now making mistakes they were meant to make in their younger years. The final four words of the revival were always meant to be the final four words of the original run but it didn’t happen.
The most problematic act of Lorelai is actually the pilot: Rory applies to a private elite school and then, guess what - they expect you to pay tuition! What did she actually think? Why should I feel sorry for her not thinking this through in advance?
In many ways, I never saw Rory as a mini Lorelai. I always saw her as more like Christopher. She treated her relationships as hers to command. In Chris' mind, Lorelai was always his, similar to Rory with Logan and Dean, even when they were with other people. Also, her perception of a relationship was "the truth," such as Logan and her were apart, unless he slept with other people, then he cheated on her. Chris' separation from Sherry. They seemed done only on his terms so he could sleep with Lorelai. Rory also treats her failures as being of external consequences, much like how Chris explains, not being part of Rory's life to her in the revival. Of course, it just wasn't in the cards.
This might be unpopular to say but I think the reason why Lorelai and Sookie work as friends is because Lorelai is tall, skinny and "beautiful" meaning she gets all of the attention while Sookie is short and fat. I feel like if Sookie was (by societies standards) beautiful, they would both get attention and we all know that Lorelai likes all the spotlight on her. She literally calls herself the Queen of the town.
I doubt that. The reason they were such good friends is because they were both energetic quirky, but weren't afraid to be honest with each other. Even though Sookie had a happy go-lucky personality, she wasn't afraid to tell Lorelei what she needed to hear. Hell, Sookie was the one who talked Lorelei into going to her parents, when they needed money for Chilton. Also, everyone knows the queen of Stars Hollow is Miss Patty.
@@roter13 Bruh. Sookie was a talented chef, didn't have any childhood issues (that we know of), and stayed married to the SAME guy. In that sense, she and Lorelei's friendship should've been over after season 2.
I really hated Christopher. I noticed a trope in movies about teenage girls finding their strange dads, getting to know them, the mother shows up and the parents get together. They often follow the pattern of a romance with the father and daughter having a meet-cute, going on dates, some misunderstanding, maybe a love triangle with a petty and jealous woman. I find them cringe and gross but it is a fantasy for girls who don't have that father figure and yearn for it. So I get why they exist. Christopher feels like a nasty subversion of that in every way. He never seems interested in getting to know Rory or being her father for her but she is just a way to get to Rory. He doesn't understand that Lorelei's feelings about him may have changed over a decade and a half as she raised their daughter alone. His redemption arc is a middle finger to all the hope that Rory had for that happy fantasy for a happy family. And he still didn't seem like he was interested in Rory as a person or his daughter even when he was paying for Yale. He was taking financial responsibility for her but not emotionally. The only time I thought they used him well was the reunion when Rory asked about when he found out Lorelei was pregnant. This was ruined for me that this wasn't Rory calling him out but prepping herself for what to expect for her own reveal.
It makes no sense to me that Rory would approach Logan again so casually after he broke up with her for rejecting his proposal. Furthermore, after the shame of the Dean situation, doing that again but with a person she was absolutely twisted up in knots about him dating other people. I know this is most likely because Amy Sherman-Palladino didn’t get to write the final season but still she should have followed that through line more carefully.
I never noticed the parallel in Lorelai shaming Rory for trying on domesticity with Dean and again with Logan. There was definitely an "approved way to be" with Lorelai.
I noticed on a rewatch how often the men would say homophobic gross stuff to establish how “manly” they are whenever Rory and Lorelai were given new love interests. Also something that bothered but seems really minor: Lorelai’s so perfect at her job and everything always turns out ok. I worked in hospitality and customer service and rarely had conflicts resolve so easily. The way Michel treats guests is super rude! But only because in the fantasy of Gilmore Girls, tourists come to Stars Hollow and act like angels. The customers I’ve dealt with? No way in hell would they stay in my home when the inn burned, I could not be in “service mode” in the sanctuary of my place.
Rory Gilmore was my idol growing up, and I aspired to be like her. Now, as an adult, after realising how entitled she can be, I'm glad that we're nothing alike.
Thank you! finally someone who can be honest about Jess-I see is so many that idolize him and excuse all of this bad behavior because of his childhood. By the time he came back and was "supposedly" now changed why would I care? We didn't see it and it didn't matter to me anymore. I liked Logan too but I can admit he had a lot of flaws -but unlike Jess we actually got to see growth in Logan through out the series and that is why I really came to like him, which is why what they did to him in A Year in the Life really pissed me off-why grow his character in the series just to dump all over it later?
My mom and I love watching Gilmore girls because they are us! My mom raised me completely alone and still is raising me. We think this show is so funny because it glorifies single parenting so much. There’s scenes where Rory and Lorelei would walk through the store buying loads of junk food and sitting at home ordering a crap ton of takeout food and it’s just not right. My mom raised me learning to be frugal with what we buy and responsible with what we eat because money doesn’t grow on trees. What also blows my mind is how Lorelei bashes on the upper class and treats them like snobs, but that’s exactly who they are and what they’re doing. You were spot on when you mentioned the fact that Lorelei literally grew up in the upper class with rich parents, but yet she acts like they’re the problem when they’re not hurting her in anyway. Lorelei also passes that down to Rory and it’s so frustrating. There’s one scene that literally angers me so much, and it’s when Logan invites Rory to a party and she meets an upperclassman that I think is a reporter of some sort. She talks with him and hits it off and makes plans to meet up again and it’s seems like a super positive thing but she turns around and writes a TOXIC article about these rich people being snobs and only being there to make deals/screw each other over and socialize which is exactly what she did. Overall, very glorified, unrealistic, and just frustrating. Cute show though!
When it comes to flaws with this show, I feel like something that doesn't get discussed is Rory's lack of respect when it comes to Lorelei's relationship with Emily and Richard. Rory is always telling Lorelei to apologize and "give them a chance" and that her parents aren't bad, despite witnessing her mother get berated by her parents at every Friday night dinner. Every time Lorelei (rightfully) wants to go NC or get angry Rory always manages to get her to change her mind.
True fact. Lorelei sets a fairly explicit boundary about involving them and Rory violates it multiple times, and often behind Lorelei’s back. The whole “give them a chance” angle Rory employs is frustrating because they already had their chance. And she does it with Jess too. How many times does someone show you who they are before you believe them?
@@KrazyKelor Yes!! This!! You know they say that sometimes a person doesn't understand trauma until they go through it themselves. I feel like Rory didn't fully understand what Lorelei went through until she lived with Emily and Richard, herself.
Yes because Lorelei is traumatized by Emily and Richard. it seems like Rory does not respect that I guess she wants her parents and grandparents to have a decent relationship but Lorelei forgive them for what they done to her I think rory needs to realize that.
@@weirdkid4622 I agree. But it goes to show that people who grew up with caring and loving parents don't understand others who weren't as lucky. Rory saw how much of a dictator Mrs. Kim was. You'd think that would've given her some perspective, seeing that Mrs. Kim and Emily weren't that different.
Sometimes I think people forget that Gilmore Girls wasn’t just a drama show, but a comedy show as well, with the very special, quirky humor of Amy Sherman-Palladino. The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel has a similar humor.
One of the things I love so much about this show is that the characters are so dynamic and real. Despite the quirky personalities, they all have their problematic traits. My friend and I always talk about how everyone in this show has issues, but the ones you like the most are the ones who’s type of bullshit you’re more ok with putting up with in real life. For example, I can’t stand guys like Dean, and the controlling and angry nature that he has is something I would never stand for in my real life.
Yes exactly 💯 it's like everyone wants people in shows to be perfect now, but I like that they have flaws, it makes it more real . I made some of the mistakes that I portrayed in the show , especially as a teen , but that's fine and normal that's how you learn . It was quite refreshing to know that I wasn't alone
The time issue is something I constantly think about, especially with Lorelai. While Rory’s at school, indicating it’s a weekday, Lore way too often does something completely different than being at work. Like my single mum used to be a hotel manager and she had to work overtime sometimes including her daytime shifts, it’s a lot of responsibility. I remember spending a lot of time there as a kid bc she had extra work in the evening. Sometimes I thought there would be complete chaos at the inn bc Lore very often wasn’t there. We don’t see the amount of work she has to do in between scenes and episodes. Maybe she worked evening shifts? Even though I assume that’s not common or logical for managers + Rory wasn’t used to being home alone a lot from what I remember, even did a few shifts at the inn herself. But also, she and Rory is supposed to live on single income technically, not considering the privilege of their family. So how is the financial situation really? But alas, it’s a happy go lucky fiction where you really don’t have to question the realism of the environment, as the realism is focused on the relations between the characters. Anyone wants to fill in or correct with thoughts? My memories of what it’s like being a hotel/inn manager could be rusty.
I thought sometimes that Lorelai and Rory’s witty banter wasn’t witty or funny, but it was just plain rude. I forget what season it was, but it was earlier in the show when they go to a different diner because Lorelai is angry with Luke. (One of the many times this happens) and Lorelai complains for an entire scene about the diner knit picking everything about it from the decor to the waitress’s chipper attitude to the size of the coffee cups. Like my god why is everything so awful to these people?!
I disagree with the situation between Logan and Jess. Did he even know rory had a boyfriend? He also makes note of how they use to make fun of those rich types, so he has a predisposed notion of someone like Logan. To me, Logan is the one that comes off hostile and i disagree he wasn't being protective be was being possessive of rory. Jess handled it pretty well, but Logan got more and more antagonist as the night went on. Completely on logan in that situation.
Thank you! It was a great analysis and made me realise how some of my thinking patterns were established by watching Gilmore Girls so many times and not being critical enough ❤
Lorelai did have a relationship with her parents before Rory got into Chilton, it was just very distant. No wonder when she showed up at her parents' doorstep to ask for money for Chilton, Emily said "my God, is it Christmas already?"
Just a correction: Fran didn't have any children, so that character that Sookie and Lorelai bothered at the funeral was something like a lawyer or a distant relative who was taking care of the inheritance. I think Fran only had, at most, distant relatives. What they did was still inappropriate, but not that much so.
I’m going to be honest. In my opinion, I do think that Luke & Lorelai had a mostly healthy relationship, if we don’t count the mistake Lorelai made with Christopher (which should not at all be taken lightly). However, Luke and Lorelai were always there for each other and to be quite honest, that was the whole reason I got pulled into Gilmore Girls to see if they got together. I loved it once I was pulled in, more than just that relationship but that’s how it all started for me. With Rory, you could not be more spot on. What happened with Dean was completely glossed over. He cheated on his wife and Rory never apologized to Lindsey or dealt with any consequences from that at all. She felt bad for like half a second before getting back together with Dean who was clearly not a class act. That always bothered me. I am/was more Team Jess though I was a little bit Team Logan too honestly. I did like him so much more in the later seasons but I do think what’s hard for me to be completely Team Logan is that he is part of the privileged world which isn’t his fault and he’s very open about that but it isn’t good for Rory because it gives her a leeway to excuse her privileged behavior and I don’t like that. She needs to learn what working hard at a job, even one you don’t like, is. Also, just a side note, I am rewatching the show also and I noticed in the ballerina episode, Die Jerk, in season 4, Rory is so mean to the ballerina and basically tells her that she’s just doing her job but when it’s Mitchum giving her criticism, real world criticism, she can’t take it. He could’ve delivered it nicer but he was right. Anyway, I really love your review of Gilmore Girls! It’s really insightful and well thought out. :)
I just wanted to say that I’ve seen a video explaining how Lorelai could afford this type of lifestyle. It was before recession and most New England small town jobs were paid well in comparison to todays standards. Property was also severely cheaper. And Luke’s diner meals were probably pretty cheap as well, I mean it was a diner in early 2000’s. I also dont think they ate THAT much. Their diet was pretty unhealthy but it’s possible to stay slim eating those things. I say it from perspective of someone who was the thinnest when eating junk food every day.. Love your videos btw ❤
Yes! I LOVE Gilmore Girls and I do love Lorelai and Luke and am happy they ended up together but I get what you’re saying about them. Also, in the revival, they did Lane and Zach dirty. Like, maybe they could at least have an album or EP out at this point. Also, as an Indie writer myself, I know how hard it is to get my books off the ground. I don’t think it’s realistic for Rory to think writing one book about her and Lorelai’s life is a career path. She seemed so motivated in the first couple of seasons of the show so that she could…write a book that may or may not be a hit? What if that fails? It’s not that deep I know. I just thought it was interesting that they don’t even build in that she wrote the book and sold it successfully. They could’ve taken that direction with Rory’s career in the revival, where throughout she was working on this book and getting it off the ground and then in the end, she was successful. That would’ve been better but maybe they were trying to make it more realistic 💁🏼♀️I digress. Great job on this video! I like your commentary and I do agree with most of it. I especially love your take on Emily and Lorelai’s relationship. It’s so toxic and they are so terrible to Lorelai. She’s not always nice to them but the attempt is there on her part at least!
13:37 Honestly, this show kind of helped me with this, because I realized that if I looked like these girls I wouldn't be healthy - or happy for that matter. To have Rory's body I'd have to do so much cardio and eat so few carbs and yet not work out too much in fear of gaining a muscle and looking "bulky". It just wouldn't be worth it. I'd rather have a piece of chocolate and get to use my body the way I want than look perfect.
The network was definitely the reason Michel couldn’t be out until the revival. You misremember the show in some of these details (like they’re not harassing Fran’s son during the funeral, actually that’s Fran’s lawyer.) But the main point I want to call out is that Dean and Jess are in high school, younger than 20. Do you realize that Logan is TWENTY FIVE by the end of the show. He’s a lot older than he should be in college, which makes his behavior a lot more problematic overall. He doesn’t like Rory having friends who aren’t his friends. The confrontation with Jess is similar to his efforts to undermine Rory’s friendship with Marty and she’s given him no reason for jealousy in either case. Mitchum is actually right to be that angry with Logan because he’s graduating so late mostly because he’s partying. None of the guys are perfect but also they’re teenagers. Logan is an adult.
The fact that Lorelai got angry at Rory and literally stopped talking to her when she dropped out of Yale. I understand that she would be concerned and worried but I don't understand why she reacted like a teenager and didn't try to communicate with Rory in a more caring way, like any mother would. Instead of accompanying her through her deep crisis, Lorelai was too concerned over Rory following the plans they had "since she was three" she placed a significant amount of pressure on Rory to succeed on what she herself was unable to.
Something I have thought about and haven’t seen you talk about I think? Is the premise of the show. Both Emily Richard and Lorelai are wrong. For Emily and Richard: So your teenage(!) child decides to leave and raise a BABY by herself. And she is underage. How are you as a parent not immediately trying to find where she is, try to help, resolve the conflict, beg to come back? And then for whole lifespan of Rory’s life try to contact? They don’t live too far away either. Hire a PI for goodness’s sake if you don’t want to involve police. Then your daughter finally comes to you. It’s obviously very transactional, she finally wants something from you - money. It’s your right not to give it to her, but if you do, why do the forced dinners? That just causes resentment from Lorelai and Rory, can’t buy love with money. And then shocked picachu face when Lorelai wanted to stop coming asap. For Lorelai: If your parents were that bad, why risk resuming contact with them for something that is optional? Rory didn’t have to go to Chilton. The fact that your parents forced you to come to dinners in exchange for money, well you kind of let yourself be bought 🤷♀️. Plus you are exposing your kid to the very same people you hid the kid from for many years. Nobody of this show’s main characters makes good choices. As for how realistic it is? Very realistic.
They imply Rory saw the grandparents when she was younger, but keep it vague. I'm still confused how much they saw the Gilmore's before the Chilton thing
It's so weird that its implied that Rory can't go to Harvard if she doesnt attend private school. Lots of students from public schools make it to an Ivy league without having to bend over backwards to abusive grandparents.
1:12 - Rory’s character was written beginning to end before the 1st episode. She had commitment issues with every guy she was with. She also was the other woman, and nearly ended a marriage of someone who in the end- she didn’t love. Rory has never, ever been a stable person when it comes to relationships. The writers of the original show created a character who was kind, caring, academic, and beautiful. Would I have gone near her after watching her destroy Dean’s life (twice), Jess’ Life, or Logan’s Life? Nope. The main thing that she shares with her mother is a stubborn sense of self, to the point of not letting the father of the child know that she is pregnant. It’s safe to assume it’s Logan, and her plan was to never tell him. That sense of stubbornness is pure Gilmore, and will haunt her when her child grows up. Just as her mother’s sense of stubbornness haunted her when Rory grew up. They wrote these characters to prove that life is cyclic. Rory was a perfect student and an amazing daughter, but she was a shitty best friend and an awful girlfriend.
Rory tells Dean, that her name is Lorelai, when they talk to each other for the first time. She also explains to him, why she has the same name as her mother.
Ppl, this show is 20 years old. It aired on the WB. Much on the perspectives taken for granted today were not as such in the 2000’s as Lauren wrote it in her book: a show about a mother and her daughter who aren’t some kind of marvel superheroes, secret assassins or a with a political commentary underneath wouldn’t have happened now. GG is a product of its time, lots of luck and ASP’s spirit; plus amazing actors and other topics that were relevant at the time. Shows now are different, the world changed its codes.
Rory didn’t lie about Logan being her first(if the moment the person was referring to was her 21st party episode). It was weirdly written, she was just referencing that her grandparents THINK Logan took her virginity, since that’s what they were worried about.
I'll never get over what Jess did to Rory like I know part of it was Rory fault later but that's does not mean he gets a pass even though he had it rough doesn't excuse for what he did. The party that he tried to force Rory she didn't deserve that.
Honestly, I really liked the show when I watched it for the first time on Netflix and it changed my life after my depression. I think all of the characters are flawed and realistic (they even feel more human than the characters itself). It really showed that.. everybody makes mistakes. Even this show was aired back in the 2000s and it was so good especially it focused on family. BUT, they really balanced so well on friends, relationships, school, and even careers. I think it's so rare to have all these topics (I don't watch many Tv shows). Anyway, I think the Revival was the issue for me (even though I liked it) for 3 reasons: 1) The Paul storyline was unnecessary and random because it felt more like a sitcom, so it doesn't fit the shows. What made it even worse is that Rory keeps forgetting to break up Paul while it is supposed to be funny...(but it's actually not) 2) The fat shaming I agreed with you because it was so outdated when this one was aired back in 2016 but.. there is no excuse to put that scene when they SHOULD learned it by now.. 3) I'm mixed but... I was shocked that Rory cheated with Logan while he is ENGAGED. Like how come she doesn't know that he is taken? It seems to me that she never learned from her mistakes through the Dean Situation.
Please, watch The OC. I would love to have your opinion on the characters, especially Marissa. Lots of people hate her, but I have so much fondness for the lost, neglected young girl she was. She really deserved better.
@@womendontneedmen5071 Misha Barton might have been, but Marissa is definitely not a fan favorite. Everything that I’ve read or heard about her is that she was a drama queen.
I enjoyed the long Christopher comment at the end but I'll add this much - the revival strikes again. When Rory talks to him, the implication to me is that the narrative thinks he was correct to be an absent father because there was "no getting in between you two", meaning Lorelai and Rory. It also kind of implies that he feels still like he had no say or agency in that, as if Lorelai built a bubble around herself and Rory and there was no space for him - ridiculous in itself. It was his kid too, if he wanted, he should've fought for her. But the writing makes it seem like, meh, whatever, who cares. I hope you'll do breakdowns of the main love interests, and maybe one for all the smaller ones (I wanna hear someone talking about Alex! lol), perhaps even a video dissecting the side characters and how screwed over they all were by the time of the revival, and what role they played in the show and how their exclusion or lack of development hurt the story in the revival in particular, but just overall too, how even characters like Sookie were never respected enough to be given much of a backstory, or they are given confusing backstories (Jess, for instance, in regards to how he and Luke speak about Liz before she appears, and how she is actually presented, or honestly, even a major character like Emily, who may well have been a friendless orphan when she married Richard for all that her past matters - which is to say, it does not; we know more about Lorelai I from one anecdote at her funeral than we do about Emily's family!).
I was frustrated with many things you’ve said, so glad I found you! What bothers me the most from a feminist perspective is Rory’s passive and often child like way of speaking even though her character is a strong, smart young woman. The infantilizing of women and the expectation that women are skinny, dressed fashionably and know every movie and book while also behaving aloof, lazy and always hanging out is always strange and just irrational. Also, the scene when Christopher’s parents shame Lorelai for ruining Chris’s youth by getting pregnant makes no sense since it didn’t affect him at all, because Loralai took a 100% responsibility for their kid while Chris was free to do whatever he wanted. In fact, she should’ve been given credit for the sacrifices she made, and for letting Chris off the hook, while presumably not getting any child support whatsoever.
Great video! Just wondering, from your perspective, do you think April broke up Lorelai and Luke and do you agree that the April storyline was a sucky one? I guess from my question it’s obvious that I think so 😂I hated the April storyline but I did notice you didn’t talk about it much (rightfully so, it was a sucky storyline IMO) so I was just curious. :) also, do you think season 7 had a completely different tone then the others since the original writers, The Palladinos, left. Did you find Rory less annoying in that season? I found her almost likable in season 7 but hated most of the season albeit the last few episodes. You did a great job with this video by the way, I was just throwing in my two cents 😅
Omg finally someone else said it! Season 7 was such a gust of fresh air almost, especially when it came to Rory. I could never stand her character from S1 onwards, especially not after she got into Yale. She always was an elitist, self-centered brat.
I love Emily! Why does everyone hate Emily and call her abusive? I thought there was so much in the show where you could see how heartbroken she was when the relationship didn't go well with Lorelai.
What I appreciate about the show is how it’s like semi realistic, most relationships irl are flawed and I liked that they showed that between family, friends, lovers. And the way they react to things makes sense even though it wasn’t healthy. But I also agree that these relationships r written in a way where we root for them rather than seeing the truth of the relationship. Also the whole virgin thing, effed up. AND the whole we r quirky, no one is like ussss lol. Like please… relax….. also personally Jess is my favorite. Also Rory’s character arch especially through college, also makes sense to me. How she’s choosing the life Lorelei gave away. I liked that aspect of things and her realizing how Richard and Emily r messed up/ not great at parenting. But a lot of the show is idealized. But I still love this show
I'm glad you mentioned that Christophere toke Lorali for granted in the later seasons, because Lorali tells him in an early season that she did that too and shouldn't have. Chris gets so mad about it but he does the same thing to her.
The scene at Fran's funeral was terrible, but it wasn't her son they were speaking with, it was the executor of the estate who is not a relative. I think he was a lawyer.
I really don’t like Lorelei and Luke’s dynamic. She takes Luke for granted, always acting like he’ll be there and is constantly teasing and harassing him. I know teasing and joking is like a coping mechanism for her relationship with Emily and it’s amusing to watch there because Emily and Richard deserve it, but Lorelei doesn’t want them in her life. She clearly does want Luke but does everything she can to annoy him. It’s so aggravating to watch.
Why does everyone keep drooling on how good Dave was? Pleasing Mrs Kim and all... The only truthful line that came out of him was that he liked Lane. He lied to their friends, talked to her like dirt to keep up the lie and he lied about himself, his parents and of course Lane to Mrs Kim until he had to at least admit liking her and then try to win Mrs Kim over because their scheming backfired. Zack may not have been the sharpest tool in the box but he wasn't a liar, he was honest and still won over Mrs Kim not because he HAD TO to date Lane, but for Lane, he respected Lane's decision not to sleep with him until they were married, he went and got Mrs Kim's approval because it meant a lot to Lane, he did the whole Korean wedding because it was important to Lane's family, and when she accidentally got pregnant he grew up to it. While yes, I do think Lane's character should have ended up with more music wise, because you CAN have it all, a career in music and a family, I don't think she ended up with a bad man or a bad relationship/marriage.
So many of these criticisms (not just this video, but ones that have been made for a while now) stem, I think, from tonal dissonance. There are several actions or arcs that people point to as deficiencies in the show, when I really think that's just how the character would have played it. This is not to discount network interference in show choices, the pilot, at least, was underwritten by the "Family Friendly Programming Forum".... which is about what it sounds like. But, for instance, Lorelei's "I got the good kid" comments to herself weren't meant to be viewed as a positive thing, it was meant to show that she has an extremely complicated and ingrained set of feelings surrounding having sex at that age. Like in the Bangles episode, they sort of touch on it, whether she "regrets" having Rory or not, but its seen from Rory's perspective, and the view she gives: "I don't think she'd recommend it" turns out to be right. In the season 1 dance aftermath episode she tells Rory that she's going to have to start taking birth control so she doesn't end up like Lorelei, and Rory takes great offence at that statement on several levels. I think, in the end, many of the criticisms of the show are for the very human characters making very human decisions. The show isn't about good or perfect people, and while the framing of it definitely seems to push that, that's where the tonal dissonance comes in. The target audience is in a lot of ways pushed to look up to Rory because that was the age the network was targeting, but that's not the story that the producers/writers wanted to tell. For years after the finale (the original one in 2008), people speculated on what the "final four words" of the show would have been (as ASP had claimed she had written the final four words of show back in like, season 1 or something), but as someone who had watched it contemporaneously, it was blindingly obvious that it would be some variation of "Hey mom..? I'm pregnant." Because that was the actual arc the actions of the character took, despite the tonal incongruity. I think the show would've made a lot more sense, or at least been more consistent, if ASP hadn't blown up the show in season 6 because of contract negotiations, and "A Year in the Life" is looked at as a replacement for season 7 rather than a sequel or follow on series. Thematically, the show makes much more sense when viewed with that in mind.
But also, they definitely did have some very specific episodes or stories that showed how bad it was. From the dress not fitting in the flashback of "Dear Emily and Richard" to the anecdote about the verbal abuse Emily gave to Lorelei even as a toddler leading her to burn all her childhood pictures ("Big-nose want dolly"). I don't, know it was pretty clear to me why Lorelei cut off contact.
Such a great video! So many good points and also in the comments as well. I still love the show, but as I got older it really opened my eyes to the many issues it has. And oh my goodness, what's with all the body shaming? The things Rory wrote about the ballerina, and her line to Asher about "the redhead has fat thighs"or something like that....not only is it disgusting and unnecessary, but given how close they are to Sookie, it's just so strange. Would they make such comments in front of her?
I don't think the guy carrying the coffin was Fran's son, it was her lawyer, which, idk why he was carrying the coffin, probably for dramatic effect or something :D
As someone who has worked in restaurants and kitchens professionally, yes, Sookie would never keep her job as a chef, extremely unprofessional kitchen behavior. So happy this was mentioned ^^
You had me until about right 6:45 here. I love Jess, and I will be the first person to make a list of his flaws, but in this episode it was alllll Logan. Jess was playing nice and trying not to give in to Logan’s taunts but Logan kept poking until he got a rise out of Jess, and not once does he talk to his actual girlfriend about it even though it’s his lack of trust in Rory that is causing him to act like an asshole. Jess and Rory meeting up was completely innocent (at least from Jess’s side, we’ve seen Rory’s track record) and Logan was the one who read into it and started all the jabbing comments. And at the end of the night, when he had had enough and didn’t want to fight the guy, Jess walked away from them to let them figure out their own problems
The thing I dislike about the Lorelai/Max relationship - literally 2 episodes prior, Lorelai won't date a Chilton Dad because it could cause problems for Rory...but then "oh, Max wants to date? uh...sure, I guess." The feminism of "Gilmore Girls" when it comes to "cool girls," eating habits, looking down on traditional feminine-coded hobbies/interests really strikes me as solid examples of second/third wave feminism. In that wave of feminism, instead of holding men who cheat accountable, we blame the other woman, and it's totally fine! (See Carrie Underwoods "Before He Cheats." Like, sis...it's entirely possible your man lied to that other woman about being single, and maybe he has *amazing* taste in women and you're missing out on making a new friend! When Rory cheats with Dean, Dean *lies* to Rory and says "it's over between Lindsay and I," but never actually leaves Lindsay. Lorelai even points this out to Rory, "Is he still with his wife?! If he's still with his wife, then you're cheating," and Rory clings to "but Dean isn't happy!" Like, woman, that is Dean's fucking problem to solve for. Not yours. The thing that drives me bonkers when I am watching "Gilmore Girls" under a critical lens - how much "main character" syndrome comes into play for Lorelai & Rory. Like, no one in the town has lives outside of those two, really? Examples are when Rory kisses Dean in the grocery store, and it becomes town gossip, or when Rory stays overnight at Miss Patty's with Dean (and it becomes town gossip), or when Rory breaks up with Dean (and it becomes town gossip), when Taylor decides Rory is going to be ice cream queen, or when Rory points out racy films are within easy reach of kids, etc. On the "there's so much time in this universe!" front - I am super forgiving of this in fiction. It's a pretty common trope in fiction in general - so many characters seem to go to work and get paid solely to talk to other characters/present exposition, or hang out with other characters every single evening at a diner, or a coffee shop, or a restaurant, or in their apartment.
Honestly, the fact that Gilmore Girls labeled itself as "Feminist" and "Female-empowering" for the time is such a laugh, especially with how often it demonizes other women who like more girl-like concepts. Because apparently you can't be an independent and free woman if you like things that are traditionally for your gender. It's even more hilarious with how hypocritical the girls are with that concept. Lorelai's best friend Suki is a chief and baker, and cooking is mostly attributed towards women, but when it comes to Lindsey who likes being a stay a home wife and enjoys cooking, that's crossing the line?! This is why I never trust anything with a "Feminist" label, because often times it will just end up misogynistic. For any readers/watchers out there, a word of warning: Just because a show or story is made by a woman, doesn't mean it automatically is a story about feminism.
when i watched gilmore girls i really wanted to be rory but then after she slept w dean i was so sad bc she was becoming less and less of what i wanted to be
Have you ever watched Marvelous Mrs Maisel? Cause obviously it’s also written by Amy Sherman-Palladino. I just watched it and it’s so fun and interesting to compare to Gilmore Girls. If you haven’t I highly recommend!!
the Jackson vasectomy thing made me SO mad. like a man clearly wrote that. sookie should not have stayed with him after that. and everyone acted like she had to be happy about the baby and that there were no other options but to have it and be happy. I loveee this show, but all the relationships fr felt like they were trying to teach women to settle for these garbage men. and even the women weren't blameless. these are not relationships to model :/
Low key, it seemed like assault. Stealthing is a crime and it seems like lying about your vasectomy is EXACTLY the same. I know it was considered a family show but I wish that they had given Sookie a choice about keeping the pregnancy or even having her and Jackson go through a separation because of his betrayal.
I want to say Kirk and Lulu is one of the only health relationships in the whole show. The main cast ESSPECIALLY SOOKIE -- because in my first watch of the show as a kid I missed the vasectomy storyline but rewatching it in my 30s it feels like nothing about how they treated the pregnancies in the show were in part of health relationships. Edit; Supposedly the third pregnancy in the show was written into the plot as Melissa McCarthy was pregnant at the time, but still her and Jackson's character was ruined by this plotline.
Yes to pretty much everything. Rory started out as the mother. While Lorelai acted like they were on equal terms, (like reality) someone has to parent and Rory took that role on as a kid. And yes, I do think she put herself in the backseat and just became who her mom wanted. I appreciated her realizing she loved Yale's campus & wanted to go there as it was her decision finally (Lorelai even sated she wanted Rory to go to Harvard as a baby so she influenced that idea). Both Lorelai & Emily are bulldozers. They take over the conversations, it has to be about them, and they cut people off while they're talking...and everyone around them just sort of bends to their will. And I feel like Rory probably did that all the time as a kid. Bent to her mother's will/ideas just as Lorelai probably did as a kid. We see Rory do that a lot in the series too. Sometimes she'll just get this look like she wants to say something but she keeps her mouth shut. So I thought it was good that she chose Yale (though IMO she should have just gone to UCLA or something so she could get a real break from the family & town). I wish she had more time at the school - instead of constantly going to Stars Hollow, so she could do a few more clubs, random events on campus & make more friends. I loved that she was friends with Marty & even Lucy etc but I hated how they perverted his character & changed that whole plot. It was awful. I feel like Rory deserved to try new and weird things that she might learn to love - things her mom might not think is cool...you know, learn more about what her likes/dislikes without being influenced by her mother. There's a lot to go on about the show but I think one of the worst things they ever did was the plot with Paul. They said that Paul and Rory were dating 2 years at the start of the revival,. It felt like Rory just wanted to say she had a boyfriend so kept seeing him whenever she felt like it. Using him. The comments about him being boring or forgetting were bad but I think ti's the duration of the relationship that bothered me. If Rory was dating him a few weeks, okay it's not so bad. But by the time the revival is done, it's been 3 years. So she just strung him along, wasting 3 years of his life. What if he could have met someone really great during that time? It just felt like something a sociopath would do.
Something that really frustrates me about Gilmore Girls is Paris's relationship with Asher Fleming. Everyone in the show kind of brushes it off or treats it like its just some juicy gossip, but really this relationship is super problematic and predatory. There is a huge power dynamic between professors and students. When Rory confronted him about the A she got on her paper, making sure it was something she actually earned, not just something to keep her quiet, Asher told her that he'd "strongly advise her against questioning his grading tactics again." This threat was treated way too lightheartedly, when in reality, this is incredibly scary.
Agreed! Why is this not talked about more? It’s so problematic!
Maybe she was in her Lana del rey phase
As a college student around the same time as Gilmore Girls, unfortunately, a college girl dating an older (or MUCH older) man wasn’t as controversial nor talked about. One of my friends dated a professor 11 years older than her (she was 22 at the time) & it was “cool,” “crazy,” and “exciting”! It’s unfortunate, but that’s how it was until more recently.
Probably until feminists decided that "power imbalances" were wrong loads of college age women actually sought this kind of thing out (and still do but not as openly)
@@tika2406lmaoo
Dave was honestly the best guy on the show. He did everything in his power to make Mrs Kim accept him, he even read the whole bible one night. That he eventually left Lane doesn't count for me since his character was written out of the show because the actor started the OC.
I agree with you there, it was a shame he didn't come back every now, as they had hinted in the show by making Lane's relationship with him seem to become long distance in college, but one could always make the case that they probably broke up off screen before her crush on Zack and Rory and Lorelei plots overshadowed it. I like to think Dave just changed his name to Seth haha.
The dismissal of Emily's emotional abuse will always be my biggest gripe with Gilmore Girls. Near the very end of the show they start to acknowledge her toxicity through Rory living with them but even that wasn't great. It's so hard to watch Emily be so horrible to Lorelai yet Lorelai is constantly portrayed as the melodramatic one. When Lorelai is hurt it's brushed off but if Emily is hurt, then it's a big deal and Lorelai has to apologize and beg for forgiveness even when she wasn't in the wrong.
Yeah true, Emily's behaviour was horrible and yet she's continually dragged into Lorelai's life
@@SerenaSkybourne is she dragged, or does she manipulate her way in?
Thank you! All this "Emily wasn't that bad!" crap gets on my nerves. Yes, the actress who played her killed it, but Emily was stuck-up, manipulative, classist, etc. Sure she improved in the revival, but for the most part, she was toxic.
Especially because almost every time Lorelei genuinely shows gratitude or sincerity to her parents she is punished for it. She treats every interaction with them as transactional for a reason and Rory never seems to take that lesson.
@@KrazyKelor Ikr. Like that episode where She and Emily decide to ditch the food at that fancy spa and go out to dinner. They were having a good time and Lorelei just pushed Emily step outside her comfort zone a little, but Emily couldn't relax a little and gaslit Lorelei into thinking she's a terrible person, even she was the one who wanted to bond so badly.
I'm glad so many of us are looking back critically at the toxic relationships in media we saw in our childhoods.
I really think I’ve been avoiding the series for exactly this reason
Yall talk about toxic this and that, but when it comes to the sleeping around, yall have no problem with that.
@@SephoRah772please shut up and reevaluate your ideas of women
Christopher almost reminds me of those baby daddies that don’t stick around unless the mother of the child seems to still have feelings for the father or at least wants to be intimate. Throughout most of the show Christopher isn’t present in Rory’s life until lorelai is single, visibly not thriving in her current relationship or shows her subconscious remaining feelings for Christopher. Like he was prepared to marry lorelai at 17 to help raise Rory but when lorelai ran away from her parents and ultimately from the life that involved him he didn’t once try to help reach out or offer support to raise their daughter, but as soon as lorelai allows him back into her life then he suddenly wants to attempt to be a father. I know he was young when everything first happened which explains the immature response to everything but even in the later seasons where lorelai and Christopher begin dating again and even get engaged, all throughout that timeframe Christopher is a decent father and really tries to be there for Rory but again once things are called off with lorelai and he understands there’s no future for them he neglects Rory again and doesn’t reach out for a while. Ultimately I just feel as though Christopher does love rory but (debatably) loves lorelai more which caused for his inconsistent behaviour with his daughter.
The writers also seemed obsessed with making every blonde woman a disliked character , Shane, Sherry , Lindsay, all the moms from Stars Hollow high , Logan’s mom it was very tiring , they could only be either Bimbos or stuck up characters.
i feel bad for blondes
I hate the ending Lane had, she deserved so much better. I wish the writers allowed for her to have a career in music, or for her story to develop further in a way that aligned better with her character. It felt like a lot of the negative things her mother suggested came true :(
Yes! It didn't feel like she really chose marriage and kids and a more "ordinary" life. If she wasn't going to have a music career or music adjacent career, then at least they could have shown her really changing her mind about her future.
I was going to say the Lane/Zack relationship would be one of the few non toxic relationships though?
You know how unlikely it is for a random high school band to make it big? The show was realistic in the sense that most of these wild crazy dreams kids have in high school end up not working out. Just cause someone “deserves” success doesn’t mean they’ll get it. I actually thought Lane had one of the most realistic storylines in the show.
@@SocialExperiment232 Yeah, but she could have ended up teaching music, or maybe running the music store where she'd gotten her first set of drums. Maybe we could have seen her mom handing her antiques store over to Lane, and Lane transforming it into a place where people could buy/sell used instruments and/or learn how to play them.
I also hated the way they treated Lane as sexless. Like, she always liked boys, but she waits until marriage to have her first time then gets pregnant during her first sexual experience and decides she never wants to have sex again, just like her mom. That would have been fine if Lane had always sort of leaned toward her mom's religious teaching, but she didn't, so it didn't gibe with her character, and it felt like the writers just didn't know what to do with an Asian character.
I really didn't like that jess tried to force himself on rory and he never apologized for it
Exactly, not only that but there are so many things (almost everything) about Jess that annoy me . I don’t get how everyone just ignores everything, not only that but love Jess. People r just after looks…
How did he force himself on her? He backed away immediatly when she said no. You people act like he sexually assaulted her.
@@equinoxXIIIhe was super forceful and aggressive and when she said no he seemed very frustrated
@@LexxLo0 Frustrated because of his dad situation. Wouldn't you be when that was the first time you see him and he just leaves again?
@@equinoxXIIIthat was before he met his father. Rory said "Jess, stop" and he didn't back off. She had to repeat it for him to stop, and though he did, he gave her grieve for that.
I like Jess, I really do, as a well-written, deep character, but that doesn't mean all of the things he did are justified
Healthy relathionships: Lane&Dave, Babett&Maurey, (Sookie&Jackson before the vasectomy)
Also Kirk and Lulu!
Liz and TJ seemed alright too
You're right, Babette and Maury were an amazing couple. ❤
Sookie and Jackson were too immature and arguing was their favorite hobby.
Jackson lost me when he felt justified embarrassing & punishing Sookie by not buying her basket because he refused to be a direct communicator and ask to move in with her. He projected, whined, and she deserved way better.
@@theratrach Yes, he is a really bad communicator. But to me it is more about the plot. In any kind of comedy there are bad communicators because the writers think it is funny and create funny situations.
Side note: it is not.
I would've loved to see an episode where we see 16yr old Lorelai working as a maid, living in a garden shed with Rory. They would bring it up once on awhile, but it didnt feel like it impacted their lives at all.
Yes! They just skipped that part! I think that's why we never really get to see them have financial problems, because that was all in the past and wasn't talked about.
yk what got me with sookies kitchen was when her friend came over to see her and the guy just started helping cook😭😭😭like he didn’t even wash his hands, just started chopping stuff
omg EWWWW
I agree with the double dipping of the spoon with other dishes and sharing the spoon with Lorelei. I didn’t really think the layout of the kitchen was bad
The real issues I have with the show have to do with the relationship between Lorelai and Rory. Lorelai being so immature is the reason Rory was so hyper focused on academics and being responsible because ONE of them had to be. She grew up fast because her mother never did. That dynamic put so much unfair pressure on young rory and for lorelai always saying "she just turned out that way" no girl YOU did that TO her!!
Another thing I dislike is how Lorelai never let Rory shine or have her own accomplishments it's always WE. "We applied" "we got in". Like Rorys highschool graduation, lorelai had to make rory asking for money about her and also made her announcement about the Inn right in the middle of the ceremony. That couldn't wait till after ?! Or when rory was in the top 3% lorelai chose that moment to accept a proposal. I know no one is going to read all this but I had to let it out lol
I just read all that and I 100% agree 🙌🙌
you're absolutely right, Lorelai was desperately living through Rory claiming her as the only thing she ever did right and could not even address Rory when she made huge mistakes like letting Jess drive her car, stealing the boat and the affair with Dean. She would never discipline her and admit that Rory could do wrong instead she blamed everyone else even when Rory herself admitted she was at fault.
@sokarilindo4787 Yes! Like at Kyle's party when Jess and dean trashed the house because of rory Lorelai praised her
Lorelei low-key had Peter Pan syndrome if we're being honest. Yes, she took on responsibility at a young age, with working at the Inn, but she always had a childlike mentality. I think that's one of the reasons why she acted a little immature in the beginning. She and Rory basically grew up together.
Also probably why it irked me that Lorelei never let Rory face ANY consequences for her actions, she was never allowed to fail bc Lorelei would throw it in her face that she was meant to be the perfect one. Yes Lorelei was a “cool” mom but she also was very judgemental which why Rory couldn’t go her about her ordeals with her relationship
Oh god I absolutely hate a year in the life rory is definitely repeating her mother's mistakes the only character that really evolved to me was Emily
Emily showed some growth but still kinda sucked hahaha but I like that she starts to form her own identity/hobbies
@@liz8382yeah i hated what they did with paris. She was intense to the end of the OG season but she had shown growth and then in a year in the life it was a total regression
The fact that Rory is a nickname for Lorelai came clear in multiple episodes, how did you miss that!!!!
Exactly idk how she missed that
Haha this stopped me in my tracks! Even if you miss Rory explaining it to Dean in episode 1, Lorelai says it again in the Dean's office in episode 2 ... then sometime later there is mention of Rory/Lorelai being named after the great grandmother, and even then, if you manage to make it to season 4, the episode The Reigning Lorelai talks about all three of them and how Lorelai is now the reigning Lorelai and one day Rory will be the reigning Lorelai.
Honestly impressed this managed to go over her head so. many. times! That's skill! 😂
Did she even watched the series?
@@sarainglis5886Also when Rory and Lorelai announce that Rory is going to Yale, Lorelai says something along the lines of "Everyone in this room named Lorelai is happy", referring to her and Rory.
Also wasn’t that the name of Richard’s mother?
One relationship always overlooked is Paris and Doyle. They were great together. The revival sure did them dirty by divorcing them.
I thought so too....at first. But when you think about it, it makes sense. Paris was a very aggressive and independent person. Doyle was, too, but hers was more extreme. Its easy to see Paris trying to be the "man of the house" and Doyle getting fed up with her behavior.
I forgot to mention- I don’t like some of the characters comments insulting Indian food. Meant to be funny but did not land 🤦♀️
for REAL it is one of the best and most loved cuisines all over the world.. they got no taste fr
@@M4ttycore have they even eaten indian food... it's also got some of the best vegan cuisine out there haha
@@SerenaSkybourne Probably why GG can stomach it. All those scary vegetables.
That’s definitely a carry-over joke from the 80s and 90s sitcom era. Indian food in America wasn’t as prevalent to white American’s diet then and if you don’t grow up eating many spices, you may not like it. Is it a good joke? No. But it was part of the lexicon. Also, SATC had a scene where Miranda and her date went to eat Indian food and he immediately got diarrhea.
@@Little-Hill-Comicsyour so real for that
The whole town was ready to burn Rory’s boyfriend at the steak for breaking up without knowing the reasons or if they were troubled like Jess. Like it creepy how the town treated the boys especially when they were 16-17
Right. If I walked out and saw a grown man trying to put a teenage boy in a headlock, I'd call the Police.
A few opinions:
-The April story was unnecessary
-Jess was a prick but he matured and turned out amazing
-Dean rushing to marry Lindsay was ridiculous
-Lane should have lived in NY and make it as a musician
-Luke was a good friend but not a great partner
-Rory was supposedly a great reader but spent hours watching TV with her mom
-Lorelai staying over the first night at Yale. Really?
-Mrs. Kim had a good development and how her relationship with Lane evolved was awesome
-Rory dropping out Yale was incoherent
-Choosing Yale over Harvard made no sense
And one final question:
-wtf happened to Kirk's chest?
Yale over Harvard was because Harvard said no to filming but agreed story wise Harvard makes more sense.
Lindsay really did deserved better with her relationship with Dean and how people in the fandom treated her.
Richard GIlmore!! Does anyone remember him RUINING Jason Stiles' career WHILE Lorelai was dating him? OMG he in many ways was painted as a soft 'everyone can relate to' quieter but underneath caring grandfather but the deeper you look back you see he is the emblem of waspy elite capitalists, his true colors come out with how he betrays Jason in a shady deal with Jason's dad (on a preppy country club golf course of all places) for his own economic self-preservation. Jason made mistakes too but he didn't deserve THAT. We even learned in one episode with Richard's mom how he had lost a big gamble on money in his youth and his wealthy parents had to bail him out. He gets to act very nonchalant and sweet bc he has such generational security, but when you would see him at risk of losing it, that's when you would see how vicious he can really be. It's one of those things where if you're accepted in his world you'll probably like him a lot bc he treats you well, but dang if there were people of color in their inner circle (like LANE, EMILY used to call her Rory's ASIAN FRIEND repeatedly in one episode) you'd feel the weight of who they truly are (old money, semi white supremacists basically), you could even find their love for Rory was conditional on how much she fit into the old money world with her academic and intellectual interests. thoughts?
Facts! Richard was just as manipulative as Emily. The difference is her manipulation was more "in your face" whereas his was more subtle. Richard knew what he was doing when he set up that Yale interview for Rory, and Lorelei called him out on it. Not to mention he had secret dinners with his ex for 4 decades and tried to play the victim when Emily got upset.
What Richard did to Jason was so shady. And it ruined a relationship for Lorelai that Richard and Emily actually approved of! Though it shouldn't have. There is no reason why Lorelai would take her Dad's side in that fight. Poor Jason was screwed over by her father and his own father and then Lorelai bails on him. If Emily had pulled some shenanigans on Jason, would Lorelai have taken HER side? I doubt it.
omg yes the luke breastfeeding thing pissed me off too! it’s legit so out of line, especially for me because i’ve been raised by a family who doesn’t make a big deal of nudity in general. like ik in lots of other families/society in general, it’s made into a big deal. but in my house my parents walk around naked, so especially for me when i see ppl being like OMG someone using boobs FOR THEIR PURPOSE to FEED BABIES 🤢
like bruh stfu 😂theyre only boobs
Literally they’re just boobs calm down bros
But it made sense for his character
It wasn't just Lorelei who would seek out things she felt Emily disapproved of. Emily also, due to her rigid conditioning, held to behavior she may not have liked. Like when she had a drink with Lorelai and danced with a man, she was having fun but then bottled up again because 'a mother has to act a certain way'. Or when she was watching a movie in the hotel with them. You can tell she was relieved to 'loosen up' sometimes, but felt that was inappropriate. Kinda sad, they probably all could have had some good memories if they didn't feel they all had to adher to their prospective 'molds'
I hate Jess , everyone likes him cause of his looks nd the bad boy thing ( if they say anything else they’re lying to themselves). Yes , his life had problems too but they don’t excuse his behaviour at all.
I didn’t like any of Rory’s boyfriends. Nd I agree Rory’s character went downhill too.
Jess was rude and problematic. He forced himself on Rory in Kyle’s bedroom , never talked about that .
Logan cheated , then tried to blame the girls for accidentally telling her the truth about his actions as if THAT was wrong.
Dean treated Lindsay horribly.
Thank you so much for talking about food addiction and binge eating disorder. This show does trigger me (I have BED) and I love that you mention the issues in the show with food and fat shaming. I always felt hurt and confused about it, especially because of sukis body type. Suki is meant to be lorelais best friend and yet she talks about people like suki in such a hurtful way. I love the show but this side of it is a sore point for me 100%.
I would love to hear you talk about Lane's storyline.
Totally agree about Sookie. She was never safe in her friendship with Lorelei. So many moments make me so angry. The moment she holds up the large underwear Luke got her at the diner….her comments were disgusting. I honestly wanted Sookie to overhear so she knew who she was really best friends with. The token fat friend doesn’t make the blatant fatphobia and body shaming okay. It kinda makes it more disgusting.
Honestly, after all the boys, I’m team Paul. He’s nice, remembers conversations with Rory’s family and friends, was patient with Rory for at least a year and never got angry at her for abandoning or ghosting him all the time. He never cheated and didn’t blame Rory at all when he broke up with her.
Team Paul all the way!
I hate how the show glosses over Jess SAing Rory! That would have been so traumatic
And the way she ran away crying 😢
That punch Dean gave him was 2 seasons in the making.
@@rachelmartin5187Dean was worse than Jess lol
@@Anthony-945 I'd say they were equally awful. They were both controlling, arrogant and straight up stalkerish. Don't get me wrong, Logan was in no way a saint either, but at least he let never tried to hide it.
@@rachelmartin5187 I agree
I've never really believed that Luke and Lorelai had a healthy relationship. Sure, they had a nice friendship, but could you imagine being a young child in their household with the consrant bickering and fighting? They had completely different things they wanted out of life, and Lorelai ended up walking away from a lot of things to give Luke the lifestyle that he wanted. She walked on eggshells constantly for that relationship. I grew up like that. My first marriage was like that. I would never want to live like that again. They were only a great couple when Lorelai gave in on everything. They were only a great couple when Luke got what he wanted. Their relationship is nothing but an endless path of eggshells.
I don’t disagree but to me it seems like Luke has always been the “giver” in the relationship. He gave up his dream of the Whikham House because Lorelei could not give up her home. Then when Luke had a life changing event (whoa new kid in my life!) and needed some time to get that settled, Lorelei sulked about it making it about her and then hit him with an ultimatum out of the blue and she blew up the relationship when he didn’t immediately agree with her.
@Iamjustherek All true. But what stands out about those situations is Luke's behavior. He didn't initially tell Lorelai about the house, and we all know what happened with April. In every situation like that, Luke either lied through hiding information, or he made decisions without her. I absolutely understand Lorelai's ultimatum. Luke was so antagonistic toward her when it came to April. He cut her out so much, and Lorelai reached a reasonable breaking point. She wasn't irrational. It didn't come out of the blue. He pushed and pushed her until she broke under all of it. All she wanted him to do was include her in this part of his life, and he flat refused to do it.
@@Liter8ure yeah very fair, they were just such a rough couple lol
Omg and much as I shipped these two, I won't lie....y'all are right. Yes, they had great chemistry, but they lacked communication, argued alot, and for a guy who claimed to be "all in" from the jump, Luke was quick to leave the relationship at the smallest inconvenience. Looking back, they should've had Lorelei stay with Jason Styles. Those two were a lot alike and he's one of the few people who undrdstood the flaws of the privileged world she came from.
@@rachelmartin5187 mmm was just thinking about Jason too. They were a great match, but I do agree with others that I don't think they'd help each other grow and mature bc they're too similar. Although Jason was the only bf of lorelai (that I can remember) where SHE compromised for HIS nuttiness, and not the other way around.
Jess and Lorelei are kind of parallels of each other (or just have a lot of things in common? idk you decide lol)
*sarcasm as a defense mechanism
*victims of child neglect (emotional and/or physical)
*both leaving home at a young age
*self-made success stories
*having bad relationships with their parents (especially their mothers!) they can never quite end
*being replaced by their parents in some way and the inadequacy that brings (for Jess: his sisters, for Lorelei: Rory))
I kind of wish they'd had a chance to commiserate. That was never going to happen, of course, because they've always had a contentious relationship from the first time they spoke. Lorelei going up to Jess and and telling him that his feelings "might" be justified and that he is lucky to be here was just condescending and presumptuous imo, she's normally so much better at talking to teens but that scene always makes me cringe 😅 That first scene together is the ultimate "I think we got off on the wrong foot" moment for me, because I genuinely think Jess and Lorelei could've gotten along had that conversation gone a different way.
I always thought that as well
Jess only had 1 sister not 2
@@Lanaxparillaxwife I mean his dad's stepdaughter (Lily) and his mom's bio daughter with TJ (Doula)
I’ve always thought that their parallels and contention were an intentional choice. I love when a story doesn’t have to spell everything out for you.
I have a daughter and you shouldn’t be friends with your daughter until she’s grown, has a job, moves out, and becomes self sufficient. A daughter needs a mother to be a mother more than she needs her to be her friend. That’s way children have friends and peer groups. The Lorelai and Rory relationship drove me crazy. Especially when she took Rory to Chilton on her first day. You know she had other clothes and a working alarm clock.
What made me uncomfortable was how Rory was often more of a mother to Lorelai than the other way round. Lorelai is always being immature and Rory has to be the responsible one: like when she had to pay Lorelai 5 dollars just to go to Friday night dinner, many small things that are easy to overlook and often played as a joke but I think this must have been really emotionally taxing on Rory having such an immature mother. It forced her to grow up so fast, and everyone praised Rory for being so mature, not like other kids, which I found really weird. Like when Rachel said she'd have kids if she could be certain they would turn out like Rory, Lorelai always saying she did nothing and Rory was just born like that. I think this probably contributed to her infamous "downfall" too.
Oh, definitely. But you know Rory being a mini-adult is one of the most realistic things about the show. In a sense, she and her mom grew up together. When Lorelai had Rory, she was still a kid herself. Even though she stepped up and went to work, she still had a child mentality. Hell, so did Christopher. Even though they tried their best, they leaned on their 16 year old daughter ALOT instead of an actual therapist.
When the fridge breaks and Lorelei yells “I hate my life!” And walks out on Rory at the table. I feel SO bad for Rory! When you’ve experienced parents that cope with stress like that, it effects you. I can’t imagine saying that knowing my kid could hear it. The feeling is valid, but if you’re overwhelmed by a broken appliance, take a lap. Let it out without emotionally dumping on your kid when you could be teaching resilience in the face of a crappy situation (to be fair sometimes Lorelei demonstrates this well, like with the hotel fire she kept her cool mostly, which is wild because it’s so much more serious)
The parentified child stuff in the script is sooo real for kids with immature parents, and even knowing the show is about generational trauma I hate how often Lorelei’s immaturity as a parent is played for laughs.
Lorelai borderline parentified Rory but they have a deeply enmeshed and unhealthy codependence on each other. The show pokes at it, Christopher outright says that Lorelai left him out of their dynamic, and Lorelai was impulsive and made Rory the emotional caretaker for her. It was deeply uncomfortable to see upon my rewatch.
Rory was entitled and bratty because Lorelai didn’t set firm boundaries with her. She was a generally good kid so she never had to do any real parenting. Rory never had a consequences and she definitely needed them. When Rory didn’t come home to her graduation because she got on a bus and left the STATE? Probably a grounding is needed.
@@theratrachThat’s how I feel too. Honestly the dynamic between them irritated me so much at times.
How would it have turned out if Rory took after her mother's wild teenage party girl ways ? Would lorelai have still been the "cool mom" and ran with it or would she get the tiniest perspective of what her own parents went through with her.
this is such an interesting point!
I never finished the show, but something that made me uncomfortable was how Paris friends were portrait. They we treated as dumb bimbos who slept around with everyone, had no personality and their whole purpose was to be there to make Paris and Rory look better. They liked more girly frivolous things and that was made fun of.
There was no need honestly. Paris and Rory were already established as smart and academically driven, it was so unnecessary to be like "Haha! Look, they are not like THIS girls!"
They mention Rory is called after her mother Lorelai multiple times, in the first season when she starts at Chilton the teacher reads her name and asks how she’d like to be called. Also it is mentioned when talking about Richards mother “the original Lorelai”.
I think its funny kinda cute that Kirk is really the only one with a good relationship (aside from Kirk being Kirk)
Makes sense. Kirk was the least pushy, manipulative and judgemental person on the show.
I don’t remember that Rory pretended Logan was her first, and I’ve watched this show a zillion times. And Lorelei and Sookie don’t talk to the Dragonfly owner’s son, they talk to the person in charge of the will, I don’t know how we call this person, he is in charge of the legal aspect, he is not a son in grief.
Don’t forget that this is a show, not a real story. If every relationship was perfect it would be so boring and there would be nothing to say. We are watching precisely because there is something wrong.
It’s a pity to drag down a story which is supposed to be funny, even if there also are dramatic aspects.
We will never eat in Sookie’s kitchen, it’s an imaginary kitchen and it is supposed to be fun.
Personally, I’ve always seen Dean’s abusive aspect, the writers maybe didn’t insist on it but they didn’t hide it either. Dean is jealous, it’s annoying but he also had very good reasons to be jealous. It’s not an excuse but a part of the explanation. I don’t especially like Dean, too macho man for my taste even if he is rather hot.
Also the scene with the breastfeeding was precisely to ridicule men’s reaction like that. It was very realistic because often men react exactly like that, which is totally ridiculous. This scene was not playing against breastfeeding, on contrary, it was playing against men reacting by such a ridiculous way.
Luke was a little hard on Jess but it’s exactly what Jess needed, someone to tell him where was the limit. That’s why Jess loved the pond where Luke pushed him in the water, because it was the first time that a paternal figure was caring enough to tell him to stop. Liz sending her son to Luke is a very complicated matter. The best thing would have been her moving to Stars Hollow with her son and letting Luke help her with her son’s education. We can see that like if she didn’t care, it’s not as simple as that. Some parents really don’t know how to handle a teenager, especially a boy who obviously is very difficult to handle. Boys often need a paternal figure at a certain age, the mother becomes not enough anymore. I know, I raised two boys, fortunately they had their father around but I can tell you that as a mother, I suddenly became obsolete when they turned fourteen/fifteen. They need a paternal role model, this is why the Luke solution here didn’t totally surprise me.
All that to say, I don’t think that we must take all this at the first degree, the scenario is purposely controversial so we can still talk about it years later. The only thing which disturbed me a little was the body shaming, especially in the revival, it was not necessary and not even funny.
I notice that in most of these videos, Rory never gets blamed for overstepping boundaries. She’s too nice to guys that she’s into when she’s in a relationship. Of course the guys are to blame for their behavior but Rory never lets them know anything like she didn’t get Logan know about Jess visiting her at her grandparents the night before. I’m sure Logan wouldn’t have liked him in her room with her at her grandparents house. The guys get too angry but Rory doesn’t have boundaries and doesn’t consider their feelings when little things like that happen.
The thing about the revival is that Rory’s arc is more of what the final season was supposed to be. That was always intended to be her story, as disappointing as it is, that’s the point. And it’s actually pretty realistic.
I just think the fact that this was meant to happen originally, back when she was younger explains why everything is harder to watch. When there’s this huge disconnect due to everyone aging, but the story stays the same, you have characters who should be mature by now making mistakes they were meant to make in their younger years.
The final four words of the revival were always meant to be the final four words of the original run but it didn’t happen.
The most problematic act of Lorelai is actually the pilot: Rory applies to a private elite school and then, guess what - they expect you to pay tuition! What did she actually think? Why should I feel sorry for her not thinking this through in advance?
In many ways, I never saw Rory as a mini Lorelai. I always saw her as more like Christopher. She treated her relationships as hers to command. In Chris' mind, Lorelai was always his, similar to Rory with Logan and Dean, even when they were with other people. Also, her perception of a relationship was "the truth," such as Logan and her were apart, unless he slept with other people, then he cheated on her. Chris' separation from Sherry. They seemed done only on his terms so he could sleep with Lorelai. Rory also treats her failures as being of external consequences, much like how Chris explains, not being part of Rory's life to her in the revival. Of course, it just wasn't in the cards.
This might be unpopular to say but I think the reason why Lorelai and Sookie work as friends is because Lorelai is tall, skinny and "beautiful" meaning she gets all of the attention while Sookie is short and fat. I feel like if Sookie was (by societies standards) beautiful, they would both get attention and we all know that Lorelai likes all the spotlight on her. She literally calls herself the Queen of the town.
Wtf are you talking about. She was dumb and annoying
I doubt that. The reason they were such good friends is because they were both energetic quirky, but weren't afraid to be honest with each other. Even though Sookie had a happy go-lucky personality, she wasn't afraid to tell Lorelei what she needed to hear. Hell, Sookie was the one who talked Lorelei into going to her parents, when they needed money for Chilton. Also, everyone knows the queen of Stars Hollow is Miss Patty.
@@rachelmartin5187 I stand by my comment and Serena said something similar at 18:02. Loreali would not be friends with someone who overshadowed her.
@@roter13 Bruh. Sookie was a talented chef, didn't have any childhood issues (that we know of), and stayed married to the SAME guy. In that sense, she and Lorelei's friendship should've been over after season 2.
Yep, Dean yelled at her on a number of occasions, yet he jumped on Jess when he felt he mistreated Rory.
I really hated Christopher. I noticed a trope in movies about teenage girls finding their strange dads, getting to know them, the mother shows up and the parents get together. They often follow the pattern of a romance with the father and daughter having a meet-cute, going on dates, some misunderstanding, maybe a love triangle with a petty and jealous woman. I find them cringe and gross but it is a fantasy for girls who don't have that father figure and yearn for it. So I get why they exist.
Christopher feels like a nasty subversion of that in every way. He never seems interested in getting to know Rory or being her father for her but she is just a way to get to Rory. He doesn't understand that Lorelei's feelings about him may have changed over a decade and a half as she raised their daughter alone. His redemption arc is a middle finger to all the hope that Rory had for that happy fantasy for a happy family. And he still didn't seem like he was interested in Rory as a person or his daughter even when he was paying for Yale. He was taking financial responsibility for her but not emotionally.
The only time I thought they used him well was the reunion when Rory asked about when he found out Lorelei was pregnant. This was ruined for me that this wasn't Rory calling him out but prepping herself for what to expect for her own reveal.
It makes no sense to me that Rory would approach Logan again so casually after he broke up with her for rejecting his proposal. Furthermore, after the shame of the Dean situation, doing that again but with a person she was absolutely twisted up in knots about him dating other people. I know this is most likely because Amy Sherman-Palladino didn’t get to write the final season but still she should have followed that through line more carefully.
I never noticed the parallel in Lorelai shaming Rory for trying on domesticity with Dean and again with Logan. There was definitely an "approved way to be" with Lorelai.
I noticed on a rewatch how often the men would say homophobic gross stuff to establish how “manly” they are whenever Rory and Lorelai were given new love interests.
Also something that bothered but seems really minor: Lorelai’s so perfect at her job and everything always turns out ok. I worked in hospitality and customer service and rarely had conflicts resolve so easily. The way Michel treats guests is super rude! But only because in the fantasy of Gilmore Girls, tourists come to Stars Hollow and act like angels. The customers I’ve dealt with? No way in hell would they stay in my home when the inn burned, I could not be in “service mode” in the sanctuary of my place.
It's not her son they're asking about the Dragonfly at the funeral. It's the lawyer handling her estate. She didn't have any children
Rory Gilmore was my idol growing up, and I aspired to be like her. Now, as an adult, after realising how entitled she can be, I'm glad that we're nothing alike.
Because you are perfect right?
@@womendontneedmen5071the nasty logic here 😂🎉
@@womendontneedmen5071 No, they just aren't having torrid affairs. 😂
Thank you! finally someone who can be honest about Jess-I see is so many that idolize him and excuse all of this bad behavior because of his childhood. By the time he came back and was "supposedly" now changed why would I care? We didn't see it and it didn't matter to me anymore. I liked Logan too but I can admit he had a lot of flaws -but unlike Jess we actually got to see growth in Logan through out the series and that is why I really came to like him, which is why what they did to him in A Year in the Life really pissed me off-why grow his character in the series just to dump all over it later?
My mom and I love watching Gilmore girls because they are us! My mom raised me completely alone and still is raising me. We think this show is so funny because it glorifies single parenting so much. There’s scenes where Rory and Lorelei would walk through the store buying loads of junk food and sitting at home ordering a crap ton of takeout food and it’s just not right. My mom raised me learning to be frugal with what we buy and responsible with what we eat because money doesn’t grow on trees. What also blows my mind is how Lorelei bashes on the upper class and treats them like snobs, but that’s exactly who they are and what they’re doing. You were spot on when you mentioned the fact that Lorelei literally grew up in the upper class with rich parents, but yet she acts like they’re the problem when they’re not hurting her in anyway. Lorelei also passes that down to Rory and it’s so frustrating. There’s one scene that literally angers me so much, and it’s when Logan invites Rory to a party and she meets an upperclassman that I think is a reporter of some sort. She talks with him and hits it off and makes plans to meet up again and it’s seems like a super positive thing but she turns around and writes a TOXIC article about these rich people being snobs and only being there to make deals/screw each other over and socialize which is exactly what she did. Overall, very glorified, unrealistic, and just frustrating. Cute show though!
When it comes to flaws with this show, I feel like something that doesn't get discussed is Rory's lack of respect when it comes to Lorelei's relationship with Emily and Richard. Rory is always telling Lorelei to apologize and "give them a chance" and that her parents aren't bad, despite witnessing her mother get berated by her parents at every Friday night dinner. Every time Lorelei (rightfully) wants to go NC or get angry Rory always manages to get her to change her mind.
What is NC?
True fact. Lorelei sets a fairly explicit boundary about involving them and Rory violates it multiple times, and often behind Lorelei’s back. The whole “give them a chance” angle Rory employs is frustrating because they already had their chance. And she does it with Jess too. How many times does someone show you who they are before you believe them?
@@KrazyKelor Yes!! This!! You know they say that sometimes a person doesn't understand trauma until they go through it themselves. I feel like Rory didn't fully understand what Lorelei went through until she lived with Emily and Richard, herself.
Yes because Lorelei is traumatized by Emily and Richard. it seems like Rory does not respect that I guess she wants her parents and grandparents to have a decent relationship but Lorelei forgive them for what they done to her I think rory needs to realize that.
@@weirdkid4622 I agree. But it goes to show that people who grew up with caring and loving parents don't understand others who weren't as lucky. Rory saw how much of a dictator Mrs. Kim was. You'd think that would've given her some perspective, seeing that Mrs. Kim and Emily weren't that different.
Sometimes I think people forget that Gilmore Girls wasn’t just a drama show, but a comedy show as well, with the very special, quirky humor of Amy Sherman-Palladino. The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel has a similar humor.
One of the things I love so much about this show is that the characters are so dynamic and real. Despite the quirky personalities, they all have their problematic traits. My friend and I always talk about how everyone in this show has issues, but the ones you like the most are the ones who’s type of bullshit you’re more ok with putting up with in real life. For example, I can’t stand guys like Dean, and the controlling and angry nature that he has is something I would never stand for in my real life.
Yes exactly 💯 it's like everyone wants people in shows to be perfect now, but I like that they have flaws, it makes it more real . I made some of the mistakes that I portrayed in the show , especially as a teen , but that's fine and normal that's how you learn . It was quite refreshing to know that I wasn't alone
The time issue is something I constantly think about, especially with Lorelai. While Rory’s at school, indicating it’s a weekday, Lore way too often does something completely different than being at work. Like my single mum used to be a hotel manager and she had to work overtime sometimes including her daytime shifts, it’s a lot of responsibility. I remember spending a lot of time there as a kid bc she had extra work in the evening. Sometimes I thought there would be complete chaos at the inn bc Lore very often wasn’t there. We don’t see the amount of work she has to do in between scenes and episodes. Maybe she worked evening shifts? Even though I assume that’s not common or logical for managers + Rory wasn’t used to being home alone a lot from what I remember, even did a few shifts at the inn herself. But also, she and Rory is supposed to live on single income technically, not considering the privilege of their family. So how is the financial situation really? But alas, it’s a happy go lucky fiction where you really don’t have to question the realism of the environment, as the realism is focused on the relations between the characters. Anyone wants to fill in or correct with thoughts? My memories of what it’s like being a hotel/inn manager could be rusty.
I thought sometimes that Lorelai and Rory’s witty banter wasn’t witty or funny, but it was just plain rude. I forget what season it was, but it was earlier in the show when they go to a different diner because Lorelai is angry with Luke. (One of the many times this happens) and Lorelai complains for an entire scene about the diner knit picking everything about it from the decor to the waitress’s chipper attitude to the size of the coffee cups. Like my god why is everything so awful to these people?!
I disagree with the situation between Logan and Jess. Did he even know rory had a boyfriend? He also makes note of how they use to make fun of those rich types, so he has a predisposed notion of someone like Logan. To me, Logan is the one that comes off hostile and i disagree he wasn't being protective be was being possessive of rory. Jess handled it pretty well, but Logan got more and more antagonist as the night went on. Completely on logan in that situation.
Thank you! It was a great analysis and made me realise how some of my thinking patterns were established by watching Gilmore Girls so many times and not being critical enough ❤
Lorelai did have a relationship with her parents before Rory got into Chilton, it was just very distant. No wonder when she showed up at her parents' doorstep to ask for money for Chilton, Emily said "my God, is it Christmas already?"
Just a correction: Fran didn't have any children, so that character that Sookie and Lorelai bothered at the funeral was something like a lawyer or a distant relative who was taking care of the inheritance. I think Fran only had, at most, distant relatives. What they did was still inappropriate, but not that much so.
I’m going to be honest. In my opinion, I do think that Luke & Lorelai had a mostly healthy relationship, if we don’t count the mistake Lorelai made with Christopher (which should not at all be taken lightly). However, Luke and Lorelai were always there for each other and to be quite honest, that was the whole reason I got pulled into Gilmore Girls to see if they got together. I loved it once I was pulled in, more than just that relationship but that’s how it all started for me. With Rory, you could not be more spot on. What happened with Dean was completely glossed over. He cheated on his wife and Rory never apologized to Lindsey or dealt with any consequences from that at all. She felt bad for like half a second before getting back together with Dean who was clearly not a class act. That always bothered me. I am/was more Team Jess though I was a little bit Team Logan too honestly. I did like him so much more in the later seasons but I do think what’s hard for me to be completely Team Logan is that he is part of the privileged world which isn’t his fault and he’s very open about that but it isn’t good for Rory because it gives her a leeway to excuse her privileged behavior and I don’t like that. She needs to learn what working hard at a job, even one you don’t like, is. Also, just a side note, I am rewatching the show also and I noticed in the ballerina episode, Die Jerk, in season 4, Rory is so mean to the ballerina and basically tells her that she’s just doing her job but when it’s Mitchum giving her criticism, real world criticism, she can’t take it. He could’ve delivered it nicer but he was right. Anyway, I really love your review of Gilmore Girls! It’s really insightful and well thought out. :)
I just wanted to say that I’ve seen a video explaining how Lorelai could afford this type of lifestyle. It was before recession and most New England small town jobs were paid well in comparison to todays standards. Property was also severely cheaper. And Luke’s diner meals were probably pretty cheap as well, I mean it was a diner in early 2000’s. I also dont think they ate THAT much. Their diet was pretty unhealthy but it’s possible to stay slim eating those things. I say it from perspective of someone who was the thinnest when eating junk food every day.. Love your videos btw ❤
But the guy they went to ask about the Dragonfly at the funeral was not the son! It was a lawyer!
Yes! I LOVE Gilmore Girls and I do love Lorelai and Luke and am happy they ended up together but I get what you’re saying about them. Also, in the revival, they did Lane and Zach dirty. Like, maybe they could at least have an album or EP out at this point. Also, as an Indie writer myself, I know how hard it is to get my books off the ground. I don’t think it’s realistic for Rory to think writing one book about her and Lorelai’s life is a career path. She seemed so motivated in the first couple of seasons of the show so that she could…write a book that may or may not be a hit? What if that fails? It’s not that deep I know. I just thought it was interesting that they don’t even build in that she wrote the book and sold it successfully. They could’ve taken that direction with Rory’s career in the revival, where throughout she was working on this book and getting it off the ground and then in the end, she was successful. That would’ve been better but maybe they were trying to make it more realistic 💁🏼♀️I digress. Great job on this video! I like your commentary and I do agree with most of it. I especially love your take on Emily and Lorelai’s relationship. It’s so toxic and they are so terrible to Lorelai. She’s not always nice to them but the attempt is there on her part at least!
13:37 Honestly, this show kind of helped me with this, because I realized that if I looked like these girls I wouldn't be healthy - or happy for that matter. To have Rory's body I'd have to do so much cardio and eat so few carbs and yet not work out too much in fear of gaining a muscle and looking "bulky". It just wouldn't be worth it. I'd rather have a piece of chocolate and get to use my body the way I want than look perfect.
The network was definitely the reason Michel couldn’t be out until the revival.
You misremember the show in some of these details (like they’re not harassing Fran’s son during the funeral, actually that’s Fran’s lawyer.)
But the main point I want to call out is that Dean and Jess are in high school, younger than 20. Do you realize that Logan is TWENTY FIVE by the end of the show. He’s a lot older than he should be in college, which makes his behavior a lot more problematic overall. He doesn’t like Rory having friends who aren’t his friends. The confrontation with Jess is similar to his efforts to undermine Rory’s friendship with Marty and she’s given him no reason for jealousy in either case. Mitchum is actually right to be that angry with Logan because he’s graduating so late mostly because he’s partying. None of the guys are perfect but also they’re teenagers. Logan is an adult.
The fact that Lorelai got angry at Rory and literally stopped talking to her when she dropped out of Yale. I understand that she would be concerned and worried but I don't understand why she reacted like a teenager and didn't try to communicate with Rory in a more caring way, like any mother would. Instead of accompanying her through her deep crisis, Lorelai was too concerned over Rory following the plans they had "since she was three" she placed a significant amount of pressure on Rory to succeed on what she herself was unable to.
Something I have thought about and haven’t seen you talk about I think? Is the premise of the show. Both Emily Richard and Lorelai are wrong. For Emily and Richard: So your teenage(!) child decides to leave and raise a BABY by herself. And she is underage. How are you as a parent not immediately trying to find where she is, try to help, resolve the conflict, beg to come back? And then for whole lifespan of Rory’s life try to contact? They don’t live too far away either. Hire a PI for goodness’s sake if you don’t want to involve police. Then your daughter finally comes to you. It’s obviously very transactional, she finally wants something from you - money. It’s your right not to give it to her, but if you do, why do the forced dinners? That just causes resentment from Lorelai and Rory, can’t buy love with money. And then shocked picachu face when Lorelai wanted to stop coming asap.
For Lorelai: If your parents were that bad, why risk resuming contact with them for something that is optional? Rory didn’t have to go to Chilton. The fact that your parents forced you to come to dinners in exchange for money, well you kind of let yourself be bought 🤷♀️. Plus you are exposing your kid to the very same people you hid the kid from for many years.
Nobody of this show’s main characters makes good choices. As for how realistic it is? Very realistic.
They imply Rory saw the grandparents when she was younger, but keep it vague. I'm still confused how much they saw the Gilmore's before the Chilton thing
It's so weird that its implied that Rory can't go to Harvard if she doesnt attend private school. Lots of students from public schools make it to an Ivy league without having to bend over backwards to abusive grandparents.
1:12 - Rory’s character was written beginning to end before the 1st episode. She had commitment issues with every guy she was with. She also was the other woman, and nearly ended a marriage of someone who in the end- she didn’t love. Rory has never, ever been a stable person when it comes to relationships. The writers of the original show created a character who was kind, caring, academic, and beautiful. Would I have gone near her after watching her destroy Dean’s life (twice), Jess’ Life, or Logan’s Life? Nope. The main thing that she shares with her mother is a stubborn sense of self, to the point of not letting the father of the child know that she is pregnant. It’s safe to assume it’s Logan, and her plan was to never tell him. That sense of stubbornness is pure Gilmore, and will haunt her when her child grows up. Just as her mother’s sense of stubbornness haunted her when Rory grew up.
They wrote these characters to prove that life is cyclic. Rory was a perfect student and an amazing daughter, but she was a shitty best friend and an awful girlfriend.
Rory tells Dean, that her name is Lorelai, when they talk to each other for the first time. She also explains to him, why she has the same name as her mother.
Ppl, this show is 20 years old. It aired on the WB. Much on the perspectives taken for granted today were not as such in the 2000’s as Lauren wrote it in her book: a show about a mother and her daughter who aren’t some kind of marvel superheroes, secret assassins or a with a political commentary underneath wouldn’t have happened now. GG is a product of its time, lots of luck and ASP’s spirit; plus amazing actors and other topics that were relevant at the time. Shows now are different, the world changed its codes.
True, yet it’s very interesting and relevant to analyze the media and stories that we consumed in our youth
I feel like Lorelai and Rory's relationship is very similar to my relationship with my dad, and as a 22-year-old, it's exhausting
Rory didn’t lie about Logan being her first(if the moment the person was referring to was her 21st party episode). It was weirdly written, she was just referencing that her grandparents THINK Logan took her virginity, since that’s what they were worried about.
I'll never get over what Jess did to Rory like I know part of it was Rory fault later but that's does not mean he gets a pass even though he had it rough doesn't excuse for what he did. The party that he tried to force Rory she didn't deserve that.
Honestly, I really liked the show when I watched it for the first time on Netflix and it changed my life after my depression. I think all of the characters are flawed and realistic (they even feel more human than the characters itself). It really showed that.. everybody makes mistakes. Even this show was aired back in the 2000s and it was so good especially it focused on family. BUT, they really balanced so well on friends, relationships, school, and even careers. I think it's so rare to have all these topics (I don't watch many Tv shows).
Anyway, I think the Revival was the issue for me (even though I liked it) for 3 reasons:
1) The Paul storyline was unnecessary and random because it felt more like a sitcom, so it doesn't fit the shows. What made it even worse is that Rory keeps forgetting to break up Paul while it is supposed to be funny...(but it's actually not)
2) The fat shaming I agreed with you because it was so outdated when this one was aired back in 2016 but.. there is no excuse to put that scene when they SHOULD learned it by now..
3) I'm mixed but... I was shocked that Rory cheated with Logan while he is ENGAGED. Like how come she doesn't know that he is taken? It seems to me that she never learned from her mistakes through the Dean Situation.
Please, watch The OC. I would love to have your opinion on the characters, especially Marissa. Lots of people hate her, but I have so much fondness for the lost, neglected young girl she was. She really deserved better.
Wtf are you talking about?! She and Ryan made the show popular. Misha Barton was super popular back then
@@womendontneedmen5071 Misha Barton might have been, but Marissa is definitely not a fan favorite. Everything that I’ve read or heard about her is that she was a drama queen.
Never watched it. Is it good?
@@HolySectaQueerI woulls recommend My So-Called Life or Freak and Geeks before that ☺️ each only has one season
I enjoyed the long Christopher comment at the end but I'll add this much - the revival strikes again. When Rory talks to him, the implication to me is that the narrative thinks he was correct to be an absent father because there was "no getting in between you two", meaning Lorelai and Rory. It also kind of implies that he feels still like he had no say or agency in that, as if Lorelai built a bubble around herself and Rory and there was no space for him - ridiculous in itself. It was his kid too, if he wanted, he should've fought for her. But the writing makes it seem like, meh, whatever, who cares.
I hope you'll do breakdowns of the main love interests, and maybe one for all the smaller ones (I wanna hear someone talking about Alex! lol), perhaps even a video dissecting the side characters and how screwed over they all were by the time of the revival, and what role they played in the show and how their exclusion or lack of development hurt the story in the revival in particular, but just overall too, how even characters like Sookie were never respected enough to be given much of a backstory, or they are given confusing backstories (Jess, for instance, in regards to how he and Luke speak about Liz before she appears, and how she is actually presented, or honestly, even a major character like Emily, who may well have been a friendless orphan when she married Richard for all that her past matters - which is to say, it does not; we know more about Lorelai I from one anecdote at her funeral than we do about Emily's family!).
I was frustrated with many things you’ve said, so glad I found you! What bothers me the most from a feminist perspective is Rory’s passive and often child like way of speaking even though her character is a strong, smart young woman. The infantilizing of women and the expectation that women are skinny, dressed fashionably and know every movie and book while also behaving aloof, lazy and always hanging out is always strange and just irrational. Also, the scene when Christopher’s parents shame Lorelai for ruining Chris’s youth by getting pregnant makes no sense since it didn’t affect him at all, because Loralai took a 100% responsibility for their kid while Chris was free to do whatever he wanted. In fact, she should’ve been given credit for the sacrifices she made, and for letting Chris off the hook, while presumably not getting any child support whatsoever.
Great video! Just wondering, from your perspective, do you think April broke up Lorelai and Luke and do you agree that the April storyline was a sucky one? I guess from my question it’s obvious that I think so 😂I hated the April storyline but I did notice you didn’t talk about it much (rightfully so, it was a sucky storyline IMO) so I was just curious. :) also, do you think season 7 had a completely different tone then the others since the original writers, The Palladinos, left. Did you find Rory less annoying in that season? I found her almost likable in season 7 but hated most of the season albeit the last few episodes. You did a great job with this video by the way, I was just throwing in my two cents 😅
Omg finally someone else said it! Season 7 was such a gust of fresh air almost, especially when it came to Rory. I could never stand her character from S1 onwards, especially not after she got into Yale. She always was an elitist, self-centered brat.
🎉🎉🎉 been waiting for this, thanks girlie!❤
my pleasure!
I love Emily! Why does everyone hate Emily and call her abusive? I thought there was so much in the show where you could see how heartbroken she was when the relationship didn't go well with Lorelai.
What I appreciate about the show is how it’s like semi realistic, most relationships irl are flawed and I liked that they showed that between family, friends, lovers. And the way they react to things makes sense even though it wasn’t healthy. But I also agree that these relationships r written in a way where we root for them rather than seeing the truth of the relationship. Also the whole virgin thing, effed up. AND the whole we r quirky, no one is like ussss lol. Like please… relax….. also personally Jess is my favorite. Also Rory’s character arch especially through college, also makes sense to me. How she’s choosing the life Lorelei gave away. I liked that aspect of things and her realizing how Richard and Emily r messed up/ not great at parenting. But a lot of the show is idealized. But I still love this show
I'm glad you mentioned that Christophere toke Lorali for granted in the later seasons, because Lorali tells him in an early season that she did that too and shouldn't have. Chris gets so mad about it but he does the same thing to her.
The scene at Fran's funeral was terrible, but it wasn't her son they were speaking with, it was the executor of the estate who is not a relative. I think he was a lawyer.
I really don’t like Lorelei and Luke’s dynamic. She takes Luke for granted, always acting like he’ll be there and is constantly teasing and harassing him. I know teasing and joking is like a coping mechanism for her relationship with Emily and it’s amusing to watch there because Emily and Richard deserve it, but Lorelei doesn’t want them in her life. She clearly does want Luke but does everything she can to annoy him. It’s so aggravating to watch.
I was literally just bindge watchi g this playlist, and suddenly there's a new episode! Love it
that's like fate
Why does everyone keep drooling on how good Dave was? Pleasing Mrs Kim and all... The only truthful line that came out of him was that he liked Lane. He lied to their friends, talked to her like dirt to keep up the lie and he lied about himself, his parents and of course Lane to Mrs Kim until he had to at least admit liking her and then try to win Mrs Kim over because their scheming backfired. Zack may not have been the sharpest tool in the box but he wasn't a liar, he was honest and still won over Mrs Kim not because he HAD TO to date Lane, but for Lane, he respected Lane's decision not to sleep with him until they were married, he went and got Mrs Kim's approval because it meant a lot to Lane, he did the whole Korean wedding because it was important to Lane's family, and when she accidentally got pregnant he grew up to it. While yes, I do think Lane's character should have ended up with more music wise, because you CAN have it all, a career in music and a family, I don't think she ended up with a bad man or a bad relationship/marriage.
While its somewhat dissapointing to see how many problems such an old favourite and classic have, the video is great as always💙
i adore you
@@SerenaSkybourne 💜
So many of these criticisms (not just this video, but ones that have been made for a while now) stem, I think, from tonal dissonance. There are several actions or arcs that people point to as deficiencies in the show, when I really think that's just how the character would have played it. This is not to discount network interference in show choices, the pilot, at least, was underwritten by the "Family Friendly Programming Forum".... which is about what it sounds like. But, for instance, Lorelei's "I got the good kid" comments to herself weren't meant to be viewed as a positive thing, it was meant to show that she has an extremely complicated and ingrained set of feelings surrounding having sex at that age. Like in the Bangles episode, they sort of touch on it, whether she "regrets" having Rory or not, but its seen from Rory's perspective, and the view she gives: "I don't think she'd recommend it" turns out to be right. In the season 1 dance aftermath episode she tells Rory that she's going to have to start taking birth control so she doesn't end up like Lorelei, and Rory takes great offence at that statement on several levels.
I think, in the end, many of the criticisms of the show are for the very human characters making very human decisions. The show isn't about good or perfect people, and while the framing of it definitely seems to push that, that's where the tonal dissonance comes in. The target audience is in a lot of ways pushed to look up to Rory because that was the age the network was targeting, but that's not the story that the producers/writers wanted to tell. For years after the finale (the original one in 2008), people speculated on what the "final four words" of the show would have been (as ASP had claimed she had written the final four words of show back in like, season 1 or something), but as someone who had watched it contemporaneously, it was blindingly obvious that it would be some variation of "Hey mom..? I'm pregnant." Because that was the actual arc the actions of the character took, despite the tonal incongruity.
I think the show would've made a lot more sense, or at least been more consistent, if ASP hadn't blown up the show in season 6 because of contract negotiations, and "A Year in the Life" is looked at as a replacement for season 7 rather than a sequel or follow on series. Thematically, the show makes much more sense when viewed with that in mind.
Yep the show definitely should had tackled the emotional abuse that lorelai suffered as a child
Same goes for jess and his mother
Yeah it barely skims the surface unfortunately
But also, they definitely did have some very specific episodes or stories that showed how bad it was. From the dress not fitting in the flashback of "Dear Emily and Richard" to the anecdote about the verbal abuse Emily gave to Lorelei even as a toddler leading her to burn all her childhood pictures ("Big-nose want dolly"). I don't, know it was pretty clear to me why Lorelei cut off contact.
“Big head want dolly” but yes I agree
Such a great video! So many good points and also in the comments as well.
I still love the show, but as I got older it really opened my eyes to the many issues it has.
And oh my goodness, what's with all the body shaming? The things Rory wrote about the ballerina, and her line to Asher about "the redhead has fat thighs"or something like that....not only is it disgusting and unnecessary, but given how close they are to Sookie, it's just so strange. Would they make such comments in front of her?
I know liz wasn't great to jess but I really liked her character and tbh she had some of the best outfits in the whole show.
I don't think the guy carrying the coffin was Fran's son, it was her lawyer, which, idk why he was carrying the coffin, probably for dramatic effect or something :D
Yeah, Fran didn’t have any kids. It was the lawyer (played by Melissa Mcarthy’s soon to be husband)
As someone who has worked in restaurants and kitchens professionally, yes, Sookie would never keep her job as a chef, extremely unprofessional kitchen behavior. So happy this was mentioned ^^
You had me until about right 6:45 here. I love Jess, and I will be the first person to make a list of his flaws, but in this episode it was alllll Logan. Jess was playing nice and trying not to give in to Logan’s taunts but Logan kept poking until he got a rise out of Jess, and not once does he talk to his actual girlfriend about it even though it’s his lack of trust in Rory that is causing him to act like an asshole. Jess and Rory meeting up was completely innocent (at least from Jess’s side, we’ve seen Rory’s track record) and Logan was the one who read into it and started all the jabbing comments. And at the end of the night, when he had had enough and didn’t want to fight the guy, Jess walked away from them to let them figure out their own problems
The thing I dislike about the Lorelai/Max relationship - literally 2 episodes prior, Lorelai won't date a Chilton Dad because it could cause problems for Rory...but then "oh, Max wants to date? uh...sure, I guess."
The feminism of "Gilmore Girls" when it comes to "cool girls," eating habits, looking down on traditional feminine-coded hobbies/interests really strikes me as solid examples of second/third wave feminism. In that wave of feminism, instead of holding men who cheat accountable, we blame the other woman, and it's totally fine! (See Carrie Underwoods "Before He Cheats." Like, sis...it's entirely possible your man lied to that other woman about being single, and maybe he has *amazing* taste in women and you're missing out on making a new friend!
When Rory cheats with Dean, Dean *lies* to Rory and says "it's over between Lindsay and I," but never actually leaves Lindsay. Lorelai even points this out to Rory, "Is he still with his wife?! If he's still with his wife, then you're cheating," and Rory clings to "but Dean isn't happy!" Like, woman, that is Dean's fucking problem to solve for. Not yours.
The thing that drives me bonkers when I am watching "Gilmore Girls" under a critical lens - how much "main character" syndrome comes into play for Lorelai & Rory. Like, no one in the town has lives outside of those two, really? Examples are when Rory kisses Dean in the grocery store, and it becomes town gossip, or when Rory stays overnight at Miss Patty's with Dean (and it becomes town gossip), or when Rory breaks up with Dean (and it becomes town gossip), when Taylor decides Rory is going to be ice cream queen, or when Rory points out racy films are within easy reach of kids, etc.
On the "there's so much time in this universe!" front - I am super forgiving of this in fiction. It's a pretty common trope in fiction in general - so many characters seem to go to work and get paid solely to talk to other characters/present exposition, or hang out with other characters every single evening at a diner, or a coffee shop, or a restaurant, or in their apartment.
Honestly, the fact that Gilmore Girls labeled itself as "Feminist" and "Female-empowering" for the time is such a laugh, especially with how often it demonizes other women who like more girl-like concepts. Because apparently you can't be an independent and free woman if you like things that are traditionally for your gender.
It's even more hilarious with how hypocritical the girls are with that concept. Lorelai's best friend Suki is a chief and baker, and cooking is mostly attributed towards women, but when it comes to Lindsey who likes being a stay a home wife and enjoys cooking, that's crossing the line?!
This is why I never trust anything with a "Feminist" label, because often times it will just end up misogynistic. For any readers/watchers out there, a word of warning: Just because a show or story is made by a woman, doesn't mean it automatically is a story about feminism.
when i watched gilmore girls i really wanted to be rory but then after she slept w dean i was so sad bc she was becoming less and less of what i wanted to be
Have you ever watched Marvelous Mrs Maisel? Cause obviously it’s also written by Amy Sherman-Palladino. I just watched it and it’s so fun and interesting to compare to Gilmore Girls. If you haven’t I highly recommend!!
The way Sookie and Lorelai behaved at the funeral was definitely not okay but that was not Fran's son just FYI
the Jackson vasectomy thing made me SO mad. like a man clearly wrote that. sookie should not have stayed with him after that. and everyone acted like she had to be happy about the baby and that there were no other options but to have it and be happy.
I loveee this show, but all the relationships fr felt like they were trying to teach women to settle for these garbage men. and even the women weren't blameless. these are not relationships to model :/
Low key, it seemed like assault. Stealthing is a crime and it seems like lying about your vasectomy is EXACTLY the same. I know it was considered a family show but I wish that they had given Sookie a choice about keeping the pregnancy or even having her and Jackson go through a separation because of his betrayal.
I want to say Kirk and Lulu is one of the only health relationships in the whole show. The main cast ESSPECIALLY SOOKIE -- because in my first watch of the show as a kid I missed the vasectomy storyline but rewatching it in my 30s it feels like nothing about how they treated the pregnancies in the show were in part of health relationships. Edit; Supposedly the third pregnancy in the show was written into the plot as Melissa McCarthy was pregnant at the time, but still her and Jackson's character was ruined by this plotline.
Yes to pretty much everything.
Rory started out as the mother. While Lorelai acted like they were on equal terms, (like reality) someone has to parent and Rory took that role on as a kid. And yes, I do think she put herself in the backseat and just became who her mom wanted. I appreciated her realizing she loved Yale's campus & wanted to go there as it was her decision finally (Lorelai even sated she wanted Rory to go to Harvard as a baby so she influenced that idea).
Both Lorelai & Emily are bulldozers. They take over the conversations, it has to be about them, and they cut people off while they're talking...and everyone around them just sort of bends to their will. And I feel like Rory probably did that all the time as a kid. Bent to her mother's will/ideas just as Lorelai probably did as a kid. We see Rory do that a lot in the series too. Sometimes she'll just get this look like she wants to say something but she keeps her mouth shut.
So I thought it was good that she chose Yale (though IMO she should have just gone to UCLA or something so she could get a real break from the family & town). I wish she had more time at the school - instead of constantly going to Stars Hollow, so she could do a few more clubs, random events on campus & make more friends. I loved that she was friends with Marty & even Lucy etc but I hated how they perverted his character & changed that whole plot. It was awful. I feel like Rory deserved to try new and weird things that she might learn to love - things her mom might not think is cool...you know, learn more about what her likes/dislikes without being influenced by her mother.
There's a lot to go on about the show but I think one of the worst things they ever did was the plot with Paul.
They said that Paul and Rory were dating 2 years at the start of the revival,. It felt like Rory just wanted to say she had a boyfriend so kept seeing him whenever she felt like it. Using him. The comments about him being boring or forgetting were bad but I think ti's the duration of the relationship that bothered me.
If Rory was dating him a few weeks, okay it's not so bad. But by the time the revival is done, it's been 3 years. So she just strung him along, wasting 3 years of his life. What if he could have met someone really great during that time? It just felt like something a sociopath would do.
13:05 what was that comment about Rory lying to Logan about being a virgin? I don't remember this ever happening