10 Things Everyone Always Gets Wrong About The X-Men

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ต.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 702

  • @blackphoenix77
    @blackphoenix77 6 ปีที่แล้ว +263

    1)Jean Grey *IS* an Omega level mutant, with or without the Phoenix Force.
    2)Professor X and Magneto are actually friends; when the Professor left Earth, he actually left the school to Magneto when he briefly reformed. You can find out stuff like this from a simple Google Search.....

    • @imnobody1906
      @imnobody1906 6 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      blackphoenix77 shhh this is what culture they don’t make mistakes

    • @shemarmagee7311
      @shemarmagee7311 6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Thank you I was about to type that!

    • @aceshockney6708
      @aceshockney6708 6 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      What culture.
      The name says it all. They start googling see a line and let it be fact without actual research soooooooo once again What culture do these dipshits belong to?

    • @Jawzah
      @Jawzah 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Well. They did not claim that JG is not an omega level mutant without the phoenix force.. But they are correct that she is not the most powerful mutant.. Without the phoenix force she's still very capable but I don't think quite as powerful as many other omegas.. And it may be that Frankling Richards is even more powerful than Jean Grey WITH phoenix force...
      Are Professor X and Magneto Friends.. Perhaps - depends what is meant by "friends".. Dunno if leaving a school full of young mutants to look after is something friends do to friends.. :P

    • @MatthewWolverine
      @MatthewWolverine 6 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      3) Also Wolverine and Sabretooth are half-brothers according to the 2001-2002 "Origin" Wolverine limited series, which predated the X-Men Origins movie referenced here by several years and there were rumors that Sabretooth was Wolverine's brother even before the "Origin" series confirmed it(I remember reading it in a magazine story about the original X-Men movie).

  • @toddzombie8777
    @toddzombie8777 6 ปีที่แล้ว +226

    "10 things people who have never touched a comic but watch films based on comics always get wrong about the X-Men".
    Fixed the title for you.

    • @MatthewWolverine
      @MatthewWolverine 6 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      "Also things the writers of this video get wrong about the X-Men."

    • @kripwit
      @kripwit 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Love this

    • @fmc291
      @fmc291 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Todd zombie87 there you go

    • @askthehealerofthebroken4516
      @askthehealerofthebroken4516 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Or "10 Super Biased Opinions sprinkled with a few facts to make it seem like an option is in-fact, a fact" there fixed.

    • @manstonhisk667
      @manstonhisk667 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Cyclops is still a tosser though.

  • @scotia7326
    @scotia7326 6 ปีที่แล้ว +36

    Another thing people get wrong is the magneto/mystique relationship. In true fact, they have little to no affiliation in the original source material, where in the movies and some other media they are seen as allies, friends and even lovers. In the comics they have very few similarities apart from running the brotherhood at very different points in time.

    • @Siantan139
      @Siantan139 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Mystique masquerading, for years, as Rogue's foster mother and being the biological mother of Kirk (Nightcrawler), are details the never seem to get mentioned.

    • @plathontherun2798
      @plathontherun2798 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yeah...I hate how the movies made everyone have a past connection somehow like Magneto/Xavier (they had one but it was exaggerated in the films) and Wolverine/Xavier, Wolverine/Magneto. It made the X-Men seem like it was in a little bubble. I liked them having motives outside of the X-Men.

  • @imnobody1906
    @imnobody1906 6 ปีที่แล้ว +40

    How does a comic book channel get juggernaut and unstoppable colossus mixed up?

    • @medusa_slayer
      @medusa_slayer 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Juggernaut isn't a real mutant as he said. He was given his powers from a cosmic being or smth

    • @medusa_slayer
      @medusa_slayer 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Oh yeah I see what you mean😂😂

  • @luismurillo5855
    @luismurillo5855 6 ปีที่แล้ว +80

    I thought it was quite well known Juggernaut isn't a mutant

    • @judgewilson2410
      @judgewilson2410 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Luis Murillo not according to x3 **shudderds**

    • @fmc291
      @fmc291 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Judge Wilson and Deadpool 2 🤢

    • @judgewilson2410
      @judgewilson2410 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Felix Concepcion I don’t remember him being referred to as a mutant in DP2 only being locked up in mutant jail which makes sense

    • @rockstarphantom8112
      @rockstarphantom8112 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      I actually never knew he drew his power from an outside source. I always thought he was just born that way. :\

    • @jodiewhittle1692
      @jodiewhittle1692 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Except when Juggernaut is Collossus

  • @vipset87
    @vipset87 6 ปีที่แล้ว +120

    the early and mid 90s were the best era. cuz if you grew up and followed the xmen in this era, you wouldnt need this video at all

    • @vipset87
      @vipset87 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      (for the most part)

    • @pulsarstargrave256
      @pulsarstargrave256 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @Vipul Doshi\ i AGREE with your sentiment! Although Jim Lee was a magnificent artist, he wanted to take the series backward while Claremont wanted to keep looking forward! I was one of those Claremont\Byrne Era fans who stopped reading X-Men after Byrne left to do Fantastic Four! But after buying the issue featuring "The Brood" I had to run around collecting back issues I had missed! To make up for it, I started reading the Essential X-Men volumes in order to catch up on everything!
      That comic really was as great as the "diehard" fans claimed! So, I ENTHUSIASTICALLY recommend Essential X-Men volumes 1-10! If you like exciting stories, great artwork with a dash of social commentary, these volumes are, well...essential! And if you can get them in FULL COLOR collections, grab 'em!

    • @vipset87
      @vipset87 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@pulsarstargrave256 hey man (long story short) thanks for putting the time out explaining everything. i will check out your suggestions/reccomendations. thanks again dude

    • @JasonTeach
      @JasonTeach 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      It was when the best storylines came out.

    • @killerpeaches7
      @killerpeaches7 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Lolno. Doesn't even come close to the Claremont/Byrne Era. Post Mutant Massacre was very uneven in quality, and didn't hit truly great again until Whedon and Cassady.

  • @theonlymatthew.l
    @theonlymatthew.l 6 ปีที่แล้ว +158

    Wow you guys didn't mention Angel as one of the original X-Men. Look at the quality control over at WhatCulture
    And at least twice when discussing Juggernaut you showed the Unstoppable Colossus
    Jean Grey is an Omega level mutant with or without the Phoenix Force
    still waiting for the part where you point out that Scott isn't the jerk, that's going to be a long wait...

    • @DrAsimov
      @DrAsimov 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Nice
      I like you. You know your shit.
      Very cool.

    • @thomaswayne7519
      @thomaswayne7519 6 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Why aren’t you working for them? Hell why don’t you write for them. The narrator is just some jank who is reading from a script.

    • @theonlymatthew.l
      @theonlymatthew.l 6 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@thomaswayne7519 yes I'm quite aware of what the narrator is, I was talking about the crew that let such a mistake riddled list make it to air. So go pick a fight with someone else and have a nice day

    • @lancetruesdell7093
      @lancetruesdell7093 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Franklin Richards isn’t a mutant.

    • @alonzopierce4718
      @alonzopierce4718 6 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      @@scientia.veritas Spider-man is a mutate. Not a mutant.

  • @mr.pacman5466
    @mr.pacman5466 6 ปีที่แล้ว +71

    5:01 That is exactly why I hate every X Men movie with Wolverine. He don't have to be main character. He doesn't have to get maximum screen time. I want to see Emma Frost, Cyclops, Kitty Pryde, Beast, Gambit, Rogue... etc. I want to see these characters their personas, their stories. I want to see X Men not Wolverine and others..

    • @mr.pacman5466
      @mr.pacman5466 6 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      And before you say anything I gotta say, I actually like Wolverine. Logan is the one of the best superhero movies for me. But I don't like when he steals all the screentime of all X Men in X Men movies, but in Wolverine Movies (Orgins, Japan,Logan) are fine for me

    • @__________1175
      @__________1175 6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Well, they kinda do if the general public likes Wolverine the most and it seems like they do. Don't get me wrong, the others should have a chance to shine but Wolverine's really popular. He's almost as, if not as, mainstream as the likes of Spider-Man.
      Studios are in the business of making money. If Wolverine makes them the most money, Wolverine gets top bill.

    • @TheMenInTightsPodcast
      @TheMenInTightsPodcast 6 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Glad to see someone who shares this opinion. I even got into an argument with a fan on Instagram because he refused to accept the idea of the new Dark Phoenix movie not having Wolverine in it.

    • @briancasimino3734
      @briancasimino3734 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Well unfortunately until they get really good writers that don’t take liberties ( which will never happen ) you probably won’t see that type of XMen movie the same way you will never see a good FF movie, if writers don’t stick to cannon that’s what happens.

    • @jayyzee5708
      @jayyzee5708 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Because he’s the most popular and is the main guy. People will watch movies because of him being in it. Simple as that

  • @michaelcoffey1991
    @michaelcoffey1991 6 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    X-Men were my introduction into Marvel, which I will always love slightly more then DC. An the X-Men will always be one of my Marvel favorites as a result, and they stay relevant in so many ways even tho some of the recent story twists I am not a fan of.

  • @scarletnight4554
    @scarletnight4554 6 ปีที่แล้ว +54

    Most of these are basic knowledge, for comic book fans

    • @ArmandoUlloa
      @ArmandoUlloa 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      People who don't read xmen comics always spread these musunderstandings.

    • @joesephnicholls1363
      @joesephnicholls1363 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      For the most part that may be true. But that's definitely not true for a lot of us who never had the privilege of Heaven Total Access to the entire second video of comic books. Too ra clarify I simply mean for those fans who where too poor to access most of the comic books on a regular basis

    • @plathontherun2798
      @plathontherun2798 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I'm starting to wonder if we are actually considered people. Because there are so many of these "people get wrong" and "surprising facts" videos and a lot of the info is not obscure knowledge at all to me.

  • @davidrichardperry3257
    @davidrichardperry3257 5 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    This video is flawed on so many levels.
    1. Angel was also one of the original X-men.
    2. Why is Colossus being pictured for Juggernaut?
    3. Everyone who reads X-men comics knows that Juggernaut is not a mutant.
    4. Scott summers is most DEFINITELY a jerk!
    5. Erik and Xavier were always friends.
    Omega level mutant: A mutant being who has vast control over matter and energy and possess the power to endanger the world. They could also potentially become beings of pure psychic energy.
    6. Jean Grey is omega level mutant. With the Phoenix Force she's beyond omega level.
    7. Emma Frost is only an omega level mutant on Earth 295. Being an Omega level telepath does not necessitate a character is an Omega level mutant, though.

    • @bra5081
      @bra5081 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      He also says X23 is Logan's daughter she is his modified clone.

    • @janejohnson4946
      @janejohnson4946 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      1. Scott isn't a jerk he's a just really strict
      2. Emma is omega level

  • @RivkahSong
    @RivkahSong 6 ปีที่แล้ว +44

    The amount of "Ugh, can you believe these noobs?" that this guy is projecting directly contradicts the sheer number of incorrect facts in this video. Such as the fact that Magneto and Xavier ARE really good friends that care about each other (The Age of Apocalypse run clearly showed that even if you ignore the multitudes of other examples. He headed the xmen and named his son after him for goodness sake), Jean Gray IS an omega level mutant, Franklin Richards is NOT an Omega he's Beyond Omega. There's a difference. And Scott IS a sanctimonious jerk. That's just part of his character. Is that all he is? No. Doesn't stop it from being true, tho. Just like Logan is an asshole. He has other character traits but that's still an important one.

    • @bra5081
      @bra5081 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Well Jean's family name is Grey not Gray. Sorry for being a spelling nazi but if you wanna correct other people's fact, better be ready for that :)

    • @mauriceperez1479
      @mauriceperez1479 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you Dr Phil

    • @RivkahSong
      @RivkahSong 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@bra5081 I'm good with that! I have zero issues with being corrected. Sorry it took me a year to respond. Damn TH-cam didn't alert me lol.

    • @RivkahSong
      @RivkahSong 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@mauriceperez1479 I have no idea what Dr. Phil has to do with a nerdy comic related comment I made two years ago on a video supposedly about correcting comic misconceptions but you do you, mate.

  • @MrNetWraith
    @MrNetWraith 6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Whilst it's true that Wolverine and Sabertooth are not brothers in the comics, it's not entirely correct to say that they're not related there. Chris Claremont had plans for Sabertooth being Wolverine's father, which is why he emphasized during his stories that Sabertooth is generally a superior fighter to Wolverine - later authors didn't like this idea and retconned Sabertooth's claims of being Wolverine's dad to just a side-effect of the mind-tinkering that Sabertooth underwent in the Weapon X Program. In Ultimate Marvel, Sabertooth was likewise presented as Wolverine's son for a considerable length of time, only for this to be retconned in the same way and for similar reasons.

    • @craven1927
      @craven1927 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      I was going to mention this. I clearly remember the Sabertooth as his father storyline that was intended, then retconned out at a later date.

  • @HouseOfBlerd
    @HouseOfBlerd 6 ปีที่แล้ว +50

    Umm the video was great but even without the Phoenix force Jean grey is still an Omega level mutant

    • @andyt2k
      @andyt2k 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      She's really not, she's a telepath and telekinetic, she's strong but Omega level is for borderline gods

    • @HouseOfBlerd
      @HouseOfBlerd 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      andyt2k um yes she’s

    • @andyt2k
      @andyt2k 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@HouseOfBlerd The others are borderline Gods and Franklin is as good as a god, Jean Grey is a pretty powerful mutant

    • @OneCut1Slash
      @OneCut1Slash 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Jean was Alpha lvl mutant in the 90s. Then i remember in XMan during the Shaman arc, it was stated that all Jean Grey's have the power to destroy their respective umiverses. So... I guess now she is considered an Omega🤷🏼‍♂️

    • @andyquinn3996
      @andyquinn3996 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Genki Dama Trunks that may be true, but jean's destructive capabilities come from the phoenix force, without the phoenix force she is a powerful telekinetic and telepath that may be true, but she is nowhere near Franklin Richards powers.

  • @Borderlines
    @Borderlines 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I love Xmen red. I like how Jean Grey is now separated from the Phoenix but remains such a powerful character

  • @CLJordanMusic
    @CLJordanMusic 6 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    Emma is NOT an Omega level mutant. She's an omega level telepath. Jean is an Omega level mutant

    • @hariodinio
      @hariodinio 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Santa is an omega level mutant

    • @mayahawthorne4788
      @mayahawthorne4788 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      She's an omega level mutant. Her powers go beyond telepathy.

  • @DeepSeaWatcher
    @DeepSeaWatcher 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Tbh I always thought X-Man was the most powerful mutant, because Franklin ALWAYS slips from my mind somehow

    • @Darneas
      @Darneas 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      I was wondering where Nathaniel Grey was in this? He was said to be the most powerful mutant in his storylines even if he is from an alternate dimension and let's not forget apocolypse??? Wasn't he the first mutant and it always takes all of these other mutants "Omega" or not to defeat him???

  • @elrodrigo4102
    @elrodrigo4102 6 ปีที่แล้ว +68

    You failed completely to prove your point that Cyclops is not an absolute jerk,i guess that's just not possible after all!

    • @INFERNO95
      @INFERNO95 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      People have yet to prove why he is a jerk in the first place.

    • @kyotaiken
      @kyotaiken 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      His "point" was that cyclops is MORE than JUST a jerk. So he's not technically a jerk, he's transcended jerkness.

    • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
      @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kyotaiken jerk-ception

    • @lorriehicks7156
      @lorriehicks7156 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Cyclops is a jerk because he abandoned his wife Madeline and his baby son, cheated on her with Jean Grey. Then when he married Jean Grey he cheated on her too.

    • @bryceadams4118
      @bryceadams4118 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      That is all to do with him getting possessed with apocalypse... And bad writers MOSTLY terrible writers.

  • @darkphoenix474
    @darkphoenix474 6 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Emma Frost is not an omega-level mutant, by far. Jean was one of the first omega level mutants mentioned.

    • @Mike-ul1xn
      @Mike-ul1xn 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      at some point while Jean was dead the comics started calling Emma an omega-level psychic because someone needed to fill the void.

    • @darkphoenix474
      @darkphoenix474 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Mike J and she probably is an omega-level psychic, but not an omega-level mutant.

  • @Darkbloom006
    @Darkbloom006 6 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    Franklin Richards is BEYOND OMEGA. Get your shit together. Omega level is very different.
    So did you forget about Angel?
    How about you using Colossus images for Juggernaut. And Jean Grey is considered an Omega Level.
    Does what culture not know how to do research? Go to Comics Explained everyone. That dude knows his stuff. Not these MASSIVE POSERS.

  • @rasputinsbeard3899
    @rasputinsbeard3899 6 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    How X-Men Origins : Wolverine should have ended....
    Sabertooth:"My father was your father... we're brothers!"
    Wolverine:"Then why do I look EXACTLY like the guy that I thought was my father?"
    Sabertooth:"......well......sh*t."
    *roll credits*

    • @Your-BestNightmare
      @Your-BestNightmare 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Nah it ended just fine... after Wade came back in time and fixed it! =)

    • @LordSathar
      @LordSathar 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Honestly, you need a Billboard sized chart to track Wolverine's Backstory, and one of the things Claremont pushed heavily was the possible Sabertooth-Wolverine relation, and if you are like me, once i got outta HS and stuff i din't have time to follow each change they made to this, and they made a freakin lot.

    • @duceeltorro4016
      @duceeltorro4016 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Becauce wolverines thought to be father was his uncle as stated in 2001 comic wolverines origins. Not the movie the comic 6 part series

    • @MatthewWolverine
      @MatthewWolverine 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@duceeltorro4016 No, not his uncle. His stepfather(or legal father). His "dad" was married to his mother, but his mother cheated on his "dad" with the groundskeeper who was Sabretooth's father and Wolverine's biological father. The husband of Wolverine's mother was not related to Sabretooth's father so Wolverine's mother's husband would not be Wolverine's uncle.
      There's another comic called Wolverine Origins which I haven't read, but that comic came out in 2010 not 2001 and it wasn't a 6 part series so you must be referring to the 2001 Origin limited series, which I described above.

    • @duceeltorro4016
      @duceeltorro4016 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MatthewWolverine the original came out in 2001 I just google it and then order it to read it again and I've seen the 2010 verion but just figured it for a re release.

  • @Jcecil1035
    @Jcecil1035 6 ปีที่แล้ว +59

    I honestly feel like having wolverine and sabertooth be related makes way more sense then them just happening to be mutants with practically the exact same powerset for no reason

    • @__________1175
      @__________1175 6 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      I never got why people bashed that idea. I know X-Men: Origins gets a lot of shit but I genuinely thought that was a good idea and, part of why I enjoy that movie in spite of it's faults (and there are multiple) is because it showed me the actual origins of Wolverine and Sabretooth from the very beginning. I'm sure comic readers already knew but as a kid in the early 2000s, every cartoon and movie always just gave vague flashbacks and showed some animosity between the two without really delving into why these two hated each other so much.
      I thought (and still think) the idea of them being brothers that had a pretty fucked up falling out makes perfect sense. It explains why they hate each other so fiercely and why their looks and powers are so similar.

    • @scotteggleston7134
      @scotteggleston7134 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Weapon X, dawg. Not out of the question to think an experimental government program would try similar experiments on similar mutants to receive whatever desired outcome. Plus he's generally one of Wolvie's arch enemies. Much like Venom, Black Adam, Reverse Flash, Iron Monger, and tons more, he's just another type of "Evil Version of the Superhero" trope that has remained compelling to this day.

    • @bigkon420
      @bigkon420 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Thing is Marvel actually thought about them being related a couple times

    • @LordSathar
      @LordSathar 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@bigkon420 Last i checked, wolverine's mom was married to sabertooths dad and....wolverine's retcons make my head hurt, since i stopped reading i heard his name isn't even logan anymore.

    • @aceshockney6708
      @aceshockney6708 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I feel like you should read more comics. There is a lot between them that making them related just completely washes out but that is only my opinion

  • @micah4029
    @micah4029 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    So by "Everyone", you really mean "People whose only exposure to the X-Men is through the films."
    Ypu are right that Jean Grey isn't the most powerful mutant, but she is still an Omega level mutant even without the Phoenix Force.

  • @darkstardarin
    @darkstardarin 6 ปีที่แล้ว +42

    Everyone seems to forget the X-Men anime.

    • @shinyduke1791
      @shinyduke1791 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I would like to forget it.

    • @Dame_Judi_Hench
      @Dame_Judi_Hench 6 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Most people haven’t forgotten it. They are just trying to

    • @blackphoenix77
      @blackphoenix77 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It was pretty forgettable, to be honest

    • @kamui003
      @kamui003 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Why did you remind me of the anime?

    • @felixmartinez9673
      @felixmartinez9673 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@kamui003 is so bad?

  • @dan-im3rg
    @dan-im3rg 6 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    90's was the best xmen era. i stopped collecting a bit after onslaught killed every nonmutant hero on earth.

    • @judgewilson2410
      @judgewilson2410 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Wow no wrong lol he killed 90% of the ENTIRE marvel universe INCLUDING mutants this being said it took hulk to crack his armor making him vulnerable

    • @HandofOmega
      @HandofOmega 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      A famous Sci Fi writer was once asked "What is the Golden Age of Science-Fiction?", and he replied "12"...as in, whatever you were into when you were 12 years old will forever be your own personal Golden Age.
      So, for me, the 80s was the best X-Men era, and always will be!^___^

    • @marcelsgroot
      @marcelsgroot 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@HandofOmega sounds like asimov. is that a good gues?

  • @Your-BestNightmare
    @Your-BestNightmare 6 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I think some of these points weren't quite accurate. Jean's an Omega, Erik/Xavier do care about each-other both on paper and in the cinema, 90'x X-Men gets the love since it introduced them to a generation in the medium they absorb best (and IT IS the best era! Lol). If I recall correctly in Origin, Wolverine killed Sabretooth's dad because he was a drunk and killed his mom? or Rose. I forget

    • @RENZOKURYUKEN
      @RENZOKURYUKEN 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      He kill his biologically father.

    • @Stovaa
      @Stovaa 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      the 90's xmen series also featured a lot of characters that other intrepretations never touched. The Savage Land, Morph etc. Lots of cool shit got put on that show that never gets a look in elsewhere.

  • @MegaBmSP
    @MegaBmSP 6 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Santa is the the strongest mutant

    • @Gamer-lq4wl
      @Gamer-lq4wl 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      He is not a mutant, he is a Saint.

    • @brobro7293
      @brobro7293 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Gamer-lq4wl he's a mutant in the marvel universe

  • @tomasguzman6631
    @tomasguzman6631 6 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    NO, franklin is not the most powerful mutant. There is a category call "Beyond Omega Level " and YES franklin is in this one, so as Matthew Malloy, Gabriel Summers, MIster M (and maybe Clyde Wyncham Jr. and the original Jim Jaspers). The most powerful it will be the one who won a battle between them

    • @kamui003
      @kamui003 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Would Legion be considered beyond omega as well? He did kill the elder gods after all.

    • @lunakingsley.7247
      @lunakingsley.7247 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      If where talking about adult Franklin then yes he was flat out confirmed to be the most powerful.

  • @QuinnRiley360
    @QuinnRiley360 6 ปีที่แล้ว +70

    11: Jubilee is actually really cool you guys are just mean :(

    • @kyotaiken
      @kyotaiken 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I was super sad she lost her powers in M-day. I fucking love Jubilee, and her powers hadnt even developed fully before they were taken away. She held a power house in those hands and never knew it.

    • @pineapplemoose5130
      @pineapplemoose5130 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Her powers are back

    • @conundrumism9215
      @conundrumism9215 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      She can theoretically create nuclear explosions so yeah, she’s pretty cool

    • @seaangel6667
      @seaangel6667 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah I did always Love her & her powers were so Awesome. I wish theywould they would have given her & Blink (my absolute favorite) more credit they have really unique powers no one just seems to understand. 💖💜💖

    • @shibolinemress8913
      @shibolinemress8913 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@kyotaiken She was cool, but I personally preferred Shadowcat and Boom-Boom from X-Men: Evolution. I agree it was sad that Jubilee never fully developed her powers.

  • @QeepingItReal
    @QeepingItReal 6 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    This is wrong. I read the comics, and Cyclops is in fact a tool.

  • @stonemaddness
    @stonemaddness 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    contrary to popular opinions, I like the idea that Wolverine and Sabertooth are brothers it would've made sense since their abilities and personality are so similar not to mention it could've made their hatred/rivalry much more understandable instead of the Wolverine vs Sabertooth story when it was their genetics that made them hate each other ( if i remember correctly).

  • @TreFKennedy
    @TreFKennedy 6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Jean is an Omega level mutant tho 🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️

    • @darkphoenix474
      @darkphoenix474 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      TreFKennedy yep, and Emma isn’t. Horrible list

  • @GameOverRover
    @GameOverRover 6 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    What’s the deal with showing Colossus empowered by Cyttorak instead of Cain Marko?

    • @Tony-oh
      @Tony-oh 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      they make these mistakes a lot. For example when they were talking about the worst Avengers that ever existed, they used a pic of the Ultimates (earth 1610)

    • @briancasimino3734
      @briancasimino3734 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      That’s from an alternate timeline where he becomes “ Unstoppable Collosus “ to save his sister Magik from gaining the power.

    • @scarletnight4554
      @scarletnight4554 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@briancasimino3734 no that's from the canon earth-616 timeline

  • @cameronhersey9087
    @cameronhersey9087 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You are forgetting that Warren Worthington the 3rd.(Angel) was also an original X-Men

  • @tompatchak8706
    @tompatchak8706 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    My kid wants learn about X men and everything. Here we are watching videos before bed so he can remember it all

  • @XanexCaligula
    @XanexCaligula 6 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    "10 Things Everyone Always Gets Wrong About The X-Men" indicates a list of factual errors that are commonly held as true.
    This is "10 Things People Say About The X-Men That I Disagree With".
    10 things which, by the way, you are pretty wrong about.

  • @yahyarajaee5883
    @yahyarajaee5883 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Professor X and Magneto were depicted as Martin Luther King Jr and Malcolm X respectively

  • @smdias65
    @smdias65 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I first got into the X-Men with Uncanny X-Men # 130 (yeah, I'm that old) at the beginning of the Phoenix saga and while I enjoyed it in the comics, the movies haven't done that story line justice. When I saw the trailer for the new Dark Phoenix movie, I groaned aloud. I knew that, just like Ian said, the movie would omit the Shi'ar, the Hellfire Club and the Phoenix destroying planets; instead they would make it into a movie about an angry superhero destroying property. My other complaint about the movies is their timeline, which Ian also touched on. Rogue wasn't a founding member of the X-Men in the comics; she was originally a villain. Wolverine and Storm also weren't founding members; Iceman and Angel were.

    • @teebee8141
      @teebee8141 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I wanted to see the royal guard,especially gladiator.

    • @Darneas
      @Darneas 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      yeah wolverine was meant to be a one off badguy for the incredible hulk he wasn't meant to last longer than like two issues I think and had nothing to do with the X-Men originally

    • @SnakeMCGaming
      @SnakeMCGaming 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      um...except Jessica Chastain has confirmed she is playing Lilandra in the new Dark Pheonix movie so..how did they leave the Shi'ar out exactly?

    • @smdias65
      @smdias65 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Well, that's cool. She's listed on IMDb, but they don't say what character. I also don't see any mention of Wyngarde / Mastermind or other members of the Hellfire Club, so it might not be exactly like the comics. The movies usually aren't.

  • @mojomaster38
    @mojomaster38 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    According to the Origin comic, James Howlett is the father of Wolverine and Sabretooth. The movie switched it to be Sabretooth's dad as their father.

  • @7honeybadger28
    @7honeybadger28 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The 90’s depicted in the animated series is definitely the best version

  • @marioalbertofernandez9225
    @marioalbertofernandez9225 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    X Men Evolution was the first Marvel cartoon I watched.

  • @jackielogan9104
    @jackielogan9104 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I always thought that Juggernaut is a mutant and then later I discovered that his powers are magic based. The supernatural entity Cyttorak is the source of Juggernaut's powers.

  • @rebeccadelaney6626
    @rebeccadelaney6626 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I'm sorry. But your wrong about Jean. Jean is the most powerful mutant.

  • @joelfigueredo957
    @joelfigueredo957 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Wanda Witch
    Franklin Richards
    Jean Grey
    Bobby Drake
    Remy Etienne LeBeau
    Ororo Munroe
    Emma Frost
    These are omega Level Mutants

  • @MeThinks995
    @MeThinks995 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Why is it ok for Batman to be everywhere but not wolverine when he has a healing factor and can do that 🤔

  • @christianstylz6158
    @christianstylz6158 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    How about the fact that Nightcrawler has fur and can walk walls like Spider-Man (they seem to forget this) and that Banshee was an X-Men for a while.

  • @mayhemx9
    @mayhemx9 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I preferred wolverine and sabertooth as brothers I think it added a aspect to their dynamic as rivals

  • @mypartnersnameiskaren2233
    @mypartnersnameiskaren2233 6 ปีที่แล้ว +39

    I'm not gonna let a *MILLENNIAL* , or anyone younger, tell me that the 90's era comics or cartoon were not the best.
    And anyone who replies in the comments otherwise needs to show some id.

    • @kyotaiken
      @kyotaiken 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      This clown has never even read a 90' x-men book, or anything before it either. He read a movie wiki, forgot everything he read, and just spliced together "facts" from several other TH-cam x-men misconceptions list videos because what culture is all about the money and the views and the ads. They spew out bullshit videos that people click on and never have anything pertinent to say.

    • @Dameol
      @Dameol 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Ah, so an idea only has merit if the person speaking it meets arbitrary qualifications? Classic Ad Hominem.

    • @HandofOmega
      @HandofOmega 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Heh, wish I could (show some ID)! You'll just have to take my word that I started reading in the 80s, and considered the 90s era of Marvel Comics (in general, not just X-Men) sooo bad that it put me off of superhero comics for about a decade (Grant Morrison's JLA got me back in). Probably for this reason, I was never fond of the 90s cartoon, although all my (younger) friends swear by it. Personally, I liked the two later cartoons MUCH better! ^_^

    • @joshuasalgado4694
      @joshuasalgado4694 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      I was just thinking this same thing lol

    • @animehuntress9018
      @animehuntress9018 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@HandofOmega I'm the opposite, started in the late 80's, but read many of the earlier editions can't help when i was born you know, and loved the 90's. I do agree with some of the cartoon thoughts though. Evolution was a really good and decent come back to animation, i kinda flip the coin between it and the older cartoon depending on the story line. I watched the movies to the second and practically left the theater half way through the second. Those movies were good as "movies" but when it comes to representing the X-men they were just, bad bad bad... I gave up on the comics when they started doing alternate universes ext. Couldn't stomach the lack of continuity. I'll give the Wolverine cartoon a thumbs up for its attempt, it had pretty decent plot and it was nice to see a cartoon that had a story-line rather than a mess like some of the other attempts at marvel cartoons.

  • @krysisstorm2703
    @krysisstorm2703 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wolverine and sabertooth are brothers. Half-Brothers, same father, different mother. If you read The Wolverine Origins mini series, which is canon, then you'd know that.

  • @artezjackson3650
    @artezjackson3650 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Cyclops is back....thank you Paul, Kid Cable,......and the Phoenix

  • @DefConprime28
    @DefConprime28 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Jim Jasper's and molecule man are more powerful than Franklin Richards

  • @alexandersmith7061
    @alexandersmith7061 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That 90’s into though....
    GOD ITS IN MY HEAD!

  • @Nikko764
    @Nikko764 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Angel was also part of the original team too no?

  • @TomMcD71
    @TomMcD71 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Scarlett Witch is among the most powerful mutants heck she's the reason for the House of M comic story

  • @joeljames2683
    @joeljames2683 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    X-Men Evolution is my favorite X-Men Show.

  • @fyrewatermelons
    @fyrewatermelons 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    The best comparsion you could make between the 90s X-Men and Evolution is their portrayal of Rogue. Both where interesting in their own way.

  • @curlygirlbeautygeek
    @curlygirlbeautygeek 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Jean Grey even as Dark Phoenix hasn’t even tapped the surface of her power so saying that isn’t an omega level mutant is inaccurate

  • @HipHop4lyfeallday
    @HipHop4lyfeallday 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I don’t care what anyone says 80’s and 90’s were my favorite eras of x men dark Phoenix apocalypse onslaught

  • @lexxstrum
    @lexxstrum 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    There was a great moment where they were picking heroes to be Avengers. Luke Cage said he wanted The Thing on his team, and someone said "But he's on a team already," to which Logan said, "I'm on 2 mutant teams, an Avenger, I run a school, and I do my own thing."
    When they asked how he could do all that, he took a drag off his cigar and said, "My real mutant power is time management."

  • @davidalvarez2686
    @davidalvarez2686 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Are we not going to talk about the time Santa Claus was referred to as the most powerful mutant ever?

  • @mike-vo8im
    @mike-vo8im 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I never read any comics but even I know juggernaut wasn't a mutant. I also disagree about the X-Men shows I never really got into evaluation or wolverine and X-Men.

  • @D.Z.A.-kp8lf
    @D.Z.A.-kp8lf 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I would love to see more X-Men movies without wolverine

  • @yoshikagekira5196
    @yoshikagekira5196 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Am I the only one that realizes that half of his stuff is his opinion?

  • @kermituchiha
    @kermituchiha 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    You are more insightful than any one out there right now making videos about comic books

  • @caimbus
    @caimbus 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Jean Grey is an Omega level mutant..Let's get it right man

  • @Lrbearclaw
    @Lrbearclaw 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I feel like you also forgot the amazing X-Men anime that came out a few years ago when discussing the animated series.

  • @c.h.175
    @c.h.175 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I thought it was said in the 90’s animated series that Wolverine and Sabertooth were half brothers as well.

  • @danelmore6553
    @danelmore6553 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have watched and read a number of quality essays on the x-men, over the years. Not once did I ever see anyone over the age of 20 say the best era was in the early 90s. In fact, I was under the impression that anyone who had actually read the comics were all of the opinion that the "golden era" was 1981-86 (running basically from the beginning of the phoenix saga, through Inferno, and ending with The Fall of the Mutants). That era's staff quit almost immediately after, and the quality was lost entirely. It did have a bit of a resurgence in the early 90s, but nothing comparable to the original movement of character-driven super hero comics that began in the 80s. Its success influenced the depth of character development and social/ethical themes throughout mainstream marvel titles. X-men was a fringe title, until 1982, when it rocketed to the top, becoming Marvel's top selling title almost overnight. There is a reason for this- it had an entirely new level of writing. The fact that it held that position for 17 years of radically fluctuating quality, is only evidence to marketing (or the fact that perhaps a new generation of comic readers simply had nothing to compare it too, when the quality dropped).
    Jean Grey was always an omega level mutant. In fact, I think the first time the term was used was referring to her. Also, phoenix force being a cosmic entity extraneous of Jean was a ret-con done when Marvel wished to bring her back to life for X-factor. In the original run, the phoenix was Jean. It was made a different entity so that Jean could be absolved of having murdered an entire planet by placing all the blame on "an alien". How about that for white-washing history?

  • @HopelessLSG
    @HopelessLSG 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    X-Men evolution was my childhood!

  • @rreed8538
    @rreed8538 6 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Cyclops was right

    • @Saint_nobody
      @Saint_nobody 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Great Scott!
      Summerize your point.

  • @kinginthenorth1437
    @kinginthenorth1437 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This was painful to watch. If you're going to make a video correcting misconceptions it would be good if it wasn't full of misconceptions (and fluffing it up to 10 entries touting opinions as facts). Makes me wonder how many misconceptions about franchises I'm less familiar with I may have picked up from your channel.

  • @nctpti2073
    @nctpti2073 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    One missed from the list. Beast turning furry happened while he was an Avenger and was completely unrelated to any X-men plots.

  • @ultimategodgohan804
    @ultimategodgohan804 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Jean grey is Omega level mutant

  • @sephandremanticore5438
    @sephandremanticore5438 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I thought the comics revealed the Cytorak gem merely activated Marko's dormant x-gene.

  • @MrRACER2112
    @MrRACER2112 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    This entire list is basically “10 things when the Xmen movies were different to the comics”

  • @aj-dr9853
    @aj-dr9853 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Actually when Chris Claremont created Sabretooth in 1977, he wanted him to be Wolverine's father. So yeah, at first they were supposed to be related. It's just that the writers who came after Claremont decided to create completely different origins.

  • @RealCoachMustafa
    @RealCoachMustafa 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Twice in this vid, the Unstoppable Colossus was shown while talking about Juggernaut. I mean he has metal skin, so it's kinda hard to get the two confused.

  • @QuixoteX
    @QuixoteX 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Give Wolverine to Alpha Flight.

  • @ChungTran-yq4ux
    @ChungTran-yq4ux 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Cyclop is a jerk especially to Jean Gray. That time he hook up with Frost when he thought Jean die and I mean that was almost immediately. The only way to top that was having sex at the funeral I do not believe he did that so maybe when you mean he not a jerk is there room to be more of a jerk.

  • @shibolinemress8913
    @shibolinemress8913 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    In the X-Men cartoon (Evolution, I believe), Xavier says that Cain carries a dormant X-Gene, so despite his Juggernaut power stemming from the gem, isn't he still technically a mutant?

  • @shibolinemress8913
    @shibolinemress8913 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    And oh yes, what about Angel? I'm sure he was also on the original team. I remember he and Ice Man both had a bit of a crush on Moondragon, and were often shown thinking the same things about her at the same time, which made me think she was influencing them telepathically. I may be mistaken though; I haven't read those comics since the 1980's.

  • @ohverkills
    @ohverkills 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    the xmen 90s intro is a bop

  • @stevengerou7914
    @stevengerou7914 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wolverine also made appearances in Alpha Flight and was treated as part of there roaster as well. This was when he was an Avenger and an X-Man.

  • @danmckeown10
    @danmckeown10 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    The Wolverine Origins comic series from early 2000's depicted Logan and Victor as brothers, and then it was adapted to the big screen.

  • @hamzab4433
    @hamzab4433 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Wolverine and Sabertooth aren't brothers but they SHOULD be.

  • @jaschul
    @jaschul 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Original plan in the comics was for Sabretooth to be Logan's dad. Editorial at Marvel ended that.

  • @douglasphillips5870
    @douglasphillips5870 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    You forgot Angel as one of the original X Men. He was that guy with wings in the picture.

  • @ricardoboetto8650
    @ricardoboetto8650 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Lol, you're gonna have to re-do this one with the recent retconning of Franklin Richards into a non-mutant.

  • @nickvarga918
    @nickvarga918 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Len Wein is pronounced WEEN. Nightcrawler, Storm and Colossus were originally offered to DC as potential new Legion members by Dave Cockrum. DC turned them down saying no one wanted to see a demonic hero or a black female character. They already had Ferro Lad.

  • @MMerlyn91
    @MMerlyn91 6 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    X-Men Red is as bad as it gets. If you want to talk about decent X-Men books, you could've said X-Men Blue or Weapon X. X-Men Red is ridiculously bad and X-Men Gold is plain mediocre.

    • @MMerlyn91
      @MMerlyn91 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I didn't bother to check that out, I don't know a lot about it except that the character appeared in Weapon X.

    • @darkphoenix474
      @darkphoenix474 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      X-Men Red is one of the best X-Men team books in years

  • @zac0918
    @zac0918 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    X-men : age of apocalypse was my favorite series, which was from the 90's, the art and story was fantastic.

  • @Gothicpug
    @Gothicpug 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sabretooth isnt Logan's father either. I know a few comic book fans that stick to that one because Marvel couldn't get their story straight back in the day. But honestly, the whole brothers thing Origins did made me roll my eyes so hard I nearly ruptured something.

  • @bigz2008
    @bigz2008 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    it blows my mind that they bothered to find an Asian extra to be Jubilee, even in x-men (2000)movie, but never though:"hey let's make her one of the main characters."

  • @TheCeejay95
    @TheCeejay95 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Isn't there a Comic between Wolverine and Sabretooth where the latter reveals himself to be his father??

    • @brobro7293
      @brobro7293 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Who's the father? Wolverine or sabretooth?

  • @rashadbrown9846
    @rashadbrown9846 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    The Scarlet Witch can kick Franklin Richards tail badly.

  • @eugeneland7017
    @eugeneland7017 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Netflix needs to get the rights to the xmen make it a Gotham like show

  • @HipHop4lyfeallday
    @HipHop4lyfeallday 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This vid is wrong Charles Xavier and magneto were friends hell magneto has led the x men several times smh

    • @wintertrooper7918
      @wintertrooper7918 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      That’s stretching it a bit I would not consider them “friends” even in the loosest definition but they do have a mutual respect for one another that tends to branch in to friendship when magneto reforms or becomes a good guy for a while

  • @astoldbyanakinskywalker2981
    @astoldbyanakinskywalker2981 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Magento is my favorite ex-man

    • @ggt47
      @ggt47 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes.

    • @tangiblemammal5273
      @tangiblemammal5273 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      He never had a force field in the movies.

    • @aceshockney6708
      @aceshockney6708 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Kaitlyn Jenner is mine

  • @Cynimax
    @Cynimax 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'd have thought X-Man was the most powerful mutant.

  • @cb4n409
    @cb4n409 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    1 thing everyone (including WhatCulture) gets wrong about the X-Men:
    Professor X and Magento were NOT conceived as "civil rights analogues." Go back to the 60s. Magneto was a typical one note super-villain in his first appearance. Mutants were disliked in the same way Spider-Man was (and continues to be). Some people liked them, some people thought they were creepy and weird, but the way Stan Lee wrote people's reactions to them was nearly identical to the way people reacted to Spider-Man or occasionally other superheroes. Mutants appeared in a variety of books and there was little material that could be called a commentary on prejudice until Chris Claremont and Jim Shooter came along. Beast was publicly a mutant with blue fur who screwed his way across the island of Manhattan when he was an Avenger in the 70s. Women found him irresistible, nobody complained that he was a filthy mutant sleeping with human women. People were upset that Vision was making it with Scarlet Witch though, because they viewed him as an android and her as a human, THAT was a civil rights analogue.
    The first explicit references to prejudice against mutants came a few years into Claremont's run in the early 80s. Specifically in Days of Future Past and X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills. Two years later, Jim Shooter really ran with the idea in Dazzler: The Movie (not a well remembered story but it sees Dazzler try to become a movie star explicitly to stand up for mutant rights and deals with the fallout of that) and the second ever company wide Marvel crossover, Secret Wars. Those are probably the four comic book stories that did the most to change the canon and make discrimination against mutants a theme in the Marvel Universe, although lots of other comics from Avengers to Rom: Spaceknight picked up the idea to a lesser extent in the mid 80s. The point being that the first 10-15 years of mutants appearing in Marvel comics did not have civil rights or discrimination as a major story element, it was Claremont and Jim Shooter who came up with that