Haven’t watched it, but I actually want to. I have zero expectations of the show being anything like the Discworld that I fell in love with in the books, but I don’t know how to say this, it looks... intriguing to me, as its own thing? So I want to at least check it out to form an opinion. The best Discworld adaption is still Hogfather though. You should watch it. :D
I hope this isn't too shallow, but of all the many, many things that appear to be wrong with this adaptation, the one that personally wounded me the most grievously was when I realized that grimy fauxhawk-and-guyliner maroon 5 cover band backup guitarist was supposed to be Samuel Fucking Vimes -R
His Grace, His Excellency, The Duke of Ankh, Commander Black Board Moniter Sir Samuel Vimes (yes I wrote it down, even if the character obviously hate all of these title nonsense) deserves better. No problem with Richard Dormer, he could have been a good casting choice. But sadly not for the character he ended up with:(
This adaptation was clearly created by the creatures of the dungeon dimensions. They see the discworld, they want to be part of the discworld, but their writing has all the poetry in motion of a deck chair.
It was probably the Auditors of Reality behind this one. Something made by something from the Dungeon Dimensions probably can't be physically shown on a screen.
They don't even have Nobby and Colon. You LITERALLY can't have the Watch without Nobby and Colon, it comes up in the books. And then they managed to get all of the other casting completely wrong
@@Mirekluk Carrot is there. and so is Angua. And Cherry. who is no longer a dwarf. well, she IS a dwarf but she's human sized and doesn't have a beard and that's the joke so...I don't know what Carrot's deal is then
@@mgormley7530 also as I remember they made her nonbinary. And they made Vetinari female. Vetinari being female I have no issues with, it can be a good way to get some stuff about women into your story. On the other hand, that's not really necessary when you have a massive aspect of your character development centered around being female, but then of course.. she's nonbinary in this version.
@@theevilmoppet yeah, making Cheery nonbinary is pretty tone deaf. She's pretty clearly meant to be read as trans, and swapping out one minority for another is a really bad look. Makes it seem like the writers think the two identities are interchangeable. I understand wanting to diversify the cast, but that is not how you do it. They also remove a lot of feminine traits from the female characters somehow missing that the way they're precieved is kind of the point. Angua and Sybil are CONSTANTLY underestimated and ignored and talked down to BECAUSE they are women, you can't just remove that! It's pretty clear the writers of this show didn't pay much attention to WHY the characters were the way they were and like, some pretty major themes of the books they were in
Doing 'ok' with world building when your source material is Discworld is like becoming a Millionaire after inheriting a Billion dollars. Sure, it's not too bad, but you still dropped the ball hard.
YES! When I watched it, I instantly went this is a reimagining or fanfic of the Watch. I liked the series as a whole a lot more thinking of it that way. I think given the source material and fanbase, they could only ever really go in a reimagined direction as no adaptation would ever be pleasing. So they took a risk that didn't flop, but wasn't a huge success. Ultimately, I think if they had focused on the first series having the mashup of Guards Guards and Men at Arms with maybe some elements from The Night Watch, and given Vimes a touch more intelligence, they could have pulled it off to be amazing. You'd still have fans grumbling but I think it would have worked out better. Oh and just no with that whole Dark power weirdness that Cheri ended up using to get rid of the assassins. that was honestly my biggest critism.
While I understand what you're doing by looking at it as a non Discworld property I reject the idea. You can't use the Discworld name to increase viewership but then get reviewed as a non Discworld property. You chose to bank on a popular name, live with the consequences.
If all you want is Discworld, the books still exist. This series was never intended to be a faithful adaptation even when Pratchett was still alive and involved.
@@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg its classic coat tailing...the "This series was never intended to be a faithful adaptation" defense never passes muster...if the argument is the story stands on its own without sticking a loved IP label on it......then you wouldn't need to put the label on it to start with. They did the same thing with The Gunslinger....and that rightly got roasted for exactly the same reasons this is now.
If it is not an adaptation then why do it? Why use the name? To cash in? Sorry for not encouraging that concept. You can change the story but keep the characters - that is what I call a fair adaptation. Changing everything is just a cash grab and I do not feel inclined to encourage it.
@@johntowers1213 it's not 'a defense' - it's what Pratchett said while he was still alive. He said it would take some elements from the Guards stories, but not be a direct adaptation.
Going Postal was kind of fun as well. And while I felt the artwork style of the animated cartoons was not the best mix (reminding me more of Saturday morning cartoons than the Disc), they were actually fairly close adaptations.
Let's hope so. Hollywood and now apparently the BBC seem to think people want something different when they do an adaptation. Which is a nice way of saying they're making shit.
@@lelandvaughan4429 Changing stuff is how we got Arrival (the original story btw is great, but would have made for a terrible screenplay) so I wouldn't go that far. And there are plenty of perfectly faithful adaptations that suck.
@@jaspervanheycop9722 You've got a point, Stardust I think is a much better movie than it was a book, but you've got to admit that sci-fi and fantasy have not gotten a lot of good ones. I've been disappointed time after time. I sat through Eragon in theaters. But there's adapting a screenplay and there's changing everything because it's more popular. There's also adapting a book series and trying to jam the entire thing into a movie because Hollywood has the rights. Thank God for the shift to series. If this was 10 years ago you KNOW they would've tried to cram Wheel of Time into 90 minutes. Would've been worse than the Avatar movie.
As somene from the UK, I was curious about this show and so I had a look on the BBC iplayer and couldn't find it. Turns out that The Watch is only available on BBC America. I gotta say, I'm a little relieved.
This comment alone tells me everything I need to know about this show. I am not going to watch it now thanks. The UK is way more familiar with the source material. If the makers of the show thought they would hate it that tells me ALOT.
"It is not good but I wasn't bored." Yeah, I believe you. People are not bored during colonoscopy either. But enjoying it would probably be considered deviant. I would rather be bored.
I still want a "Mort" adaptation made by Taika Watiti, I personally believe his direction (specifically for the Death saga imo) would be gorgeous. I personally just am not going to watch The Watch simply because this punk version of Discworld just doesn't feel right. The books always had this charm to them that did remind me a little bit of Monty Python (could be that British humor) and honestly really really am looking forward to the day where we can get a (not only decent but) great adaptation of Discworld because Sir Pratchett deserves better. In other words, watch Good Omens instead
I'm still bummed that they left out my favorite part of Good Omens: the "other horsemen" who followed the main four, giving themselves names like "Grievous Bodily Harm" and "Foreigners, especially the French."
One of the most unfortunate thing about the show is that, with proper writing and a better, more loyal, direction, I could have seen Richard Dormer play a proper Sam Vimes really well (given, I don't know much about the character, as I'm early on in reading Discworld). He plays a fantastic bitter, slightly crazy sheriff in the series Fortitude and I was hoping he'd bring a lighter version of some of that same energy to Vimes. Unfortunately, it seems they went with what they went with instead.
Absolutely agreed. Even genderbending character could work. Anna Chancellor is a really good actress who I seen many other movies and TV shows before. Would be amazing if she could play the book version of Vetinari. But her dialogue was really really dry. Any other fantasy TV adaptation in the recent years follow they source materials. It just outrages they don't even tried.
@@bencebotye3904 the genderbending should have some sort of narrative reason backing it up, something like the lover who ran with the blade did hide in plain sight taking on the persona of Vetinari, would have made it a lot more palatable. As it stands it is a series in Bizarro Discworld.
@@zippoblackburn3106 I agreed with everything. Discworld is so massive they had the keys to make a wonderful show. But rather make it with the complexity and humor of "Good Omens", ended up with problem of tone in "Gotham".
Sometimes, changing something just for the sake of changing it, is a bad idea. BBC knew they were gonna annoy people, did it anyway and released this turd. Maybe, just maybe, some things shouldn't be changed?
I generally like it when adaptations drastically change the source material. If I'm a fan of the original, I already know the story and characters. I want to be surprised like the rest of them, not just watch the same stuff I read thrown onto the screen. The key is, you know, doing it right. They clearly failed here. I think a key is to distill the "essence" of the original into your adaptation. If you get the humor and characters right, you can do the source material justice even if the stories in the adaptation are 100% original.
@@exerzet2661 No not tax funded. It is compulsory, regardless of income, to pay £160 per household per year even if you can't get BBC broadcasts or do not wish to watch/listen to them. If you don't pay you face huge fines and if you don't pay the fines you are sent to prison. It is state approved extortion.
I wish movie and series writers would just stop taking something and trying to turn it into something else, either ignoring the source material or not doing it justice. Why not make something that was inspired by whatever they want to write for? Just look at The Orville They've done a brilliant job! 🤷🏻♀️
I was surprised after watching the entire first season and then reading some commentary about it to realize that Throat, the woman in the wheelchair that was a low-level gangster, is supposed to be CMOT Dibbler. Like, WHAT?
WHAT!? I knew he got wounded by arrows, of all things too idiotic to believe, but he actually DIED!? That's... So beyond stupidity, i dont even think there's a word for it!
So basically it’s a mediocre show that’s trying to ride the coat tales of a more popular franchise, created by people who aren’t fans of the source material and are too lazy to do any research beyond Wikipedia. Sounds like a grade A dumpster fire to me.
Sounds like recent Star Trek and Star Wars. What is it with the mangling of beloved IPs recently. Is it because making a real effort and falling short is seen as worse??
Just watching clips from the show is painful. None of the characters even remotely resembled the people they were supposed to be. They even got ERROL wrong! The people responsible for this travesty should be thrown in Lord Vetinari's mime pit, because they too need to learn the words.
@@kellieyang77 Not officially, but the drop is high enough to hurt for certain! At least then something designed be Bloody Stupid Johnson would be useful.
@@SmalltimeDog I always describe it as "HHGTG but for fantasy." Better than comparing it to Monty Python, which I hear all the time. I'm a huge fan of Monty Python, but it's not at all the similar.
Vimes is my favorite character not only in Disc World but in literature in general and ever since I saw the trailer I knew I wouldn't watch the show as it was evident they butchered him completely. Showing middle finger to Vetinari?! Thank's, but it's a hard no for me.
every writer makes a promise in the first chapter/episode. They promised us discworld, so, having not yet seen it, it sounds like a failure as they did not deliver their promise, and it's been nearly a century of broken promises from studio execs and writers, we need to hold them accountable and just tell them to stop making adaptations without caring about source material or exist fans. Having a show loosely inspired by the Watch would be great, AS LONG AS THEY DON'T CALL IT THE WATCH!
The real shame is that this basically kills any chance we have of getting a true Watch adaptation, which is such a shame because I think the Watch is the best of Pratchett's creations.
@@noahcaelum6796 Reading 1 Discworld per day is a significant amount of your day gone, but if I got a box of 5 newly discovered Discworld books that Pterry wrote in the golden age of Discworld, but just didn't publish, because he wanted to space them out a bit, and then they were forgotten... (I can dream...) - I would probably take a week off, just to read... There are a lot of Discworld books, but not enough. Enjoy!
@@JanHgh Thanks for the explanation man. I know Disckwolrd is an absurdist fantasy. And I mainly wants to read the Reaper series or the one about death because I’ve heard that is funny.
@@noahcaelum6796 The key thing to remember about Discworld, is that it's not slapstick - it's not "funny" for the characters involved. And it's actually full of social commentary and philosophy. And great characters. TBH, it's also less absurd than a lot of classical fantasy. Discworld makes sense, it just has different physical laws than we're used to.
The strange thing about the Dresden show is that they started out with a straightish adaptation of the first book (which is strangely not the first episode, it's towards the end of the run) - mentioning the Nevernever and the other races etc and then chucked most of that out of the window for basic PI show. There were some good ideas such as the visualisation of Bob the skull and using him as a way of explaining things but in the end it's just a bit bland. Sad thing is that with the GoT phenomenon nowadays one of the streaming companies would probably jump at the chance to have a crack at a series.
@@stamfordly6463 Syfy made lots of bad decisions they aired episodes out of order. Side note the reason they change Karen name to Connie is because there's a police officer at the time of filming named Karen Murphy in Chicago so they didn't want to get sued.
@@WayneBHead To be honest changing a character's christian name is irrelevent unless, like Pratchett and Dickens, the names tell us something about the character. It's a silly reason to change the name because neither Karen nor Murphy are exactly uncommon names - there must be thousands of Karen Murphy's out there and odds are at least one would be a flatfoot. If you watch the series though that one particular episode sticks out as not being like any of the others, it's like it's from a different series.
The best part of the show, imo, was Dresden enchanting a hockey stick to act as his staff. That makes sense for getting around Chicago and not being ridiculous.
As of yesterday, I finished my first foray into Discworld, having read “Guards! Guards!”. I loved it, and was curious about what else is out there. Even as a total neophyte, I’m more than a little disappointed that Lady Sybil is slim and petite. That feels just directly contradictory to what makes Sybil unique and special.
Shame because I feel like Richard Dormer would've made a great Vimes in a proper Discworld show. I hate when tv/film adaptations choose a perfect actor for the role but destroy their chances at playing the character properly with a bad script (see also Jason Momoa as Conan or David Harbour as Hellboy).
The biggest sin, aside from how it butchers its source material, is that it doesn't just fail as an adaptation that was "inspired" by Pratchet's work, it fails as a show internally. As someone who forced my way through the entire first season, It's a mess. The story and characters are internally inconsistent. Their stories clashes and ruin the story of the other characters. Their characterisation changes depending on what the writer need them to do and be. Their arcs are impressively short, ends suddenly, and are as shallow as a puddle. Cause and effect are absent when convenient. The story is full of contrivance. And the established rules are mere suggestions. Carrot and Cheery's stories are perfect examples of this where they ruin the other's backstory. Carrot is too tall to be a dwarf, yet Cheery is as tall if not taller than him and we see more tall dwarfs (now there's an oxymoron). Therefore, Carrot can't be "too tall to be a dwarf" because there are dwarfs that are 6 foot and up apparently! Cheery is a female dwarf in a culture where there are no real genders as all dwarfs look the same, except in Carrot's backstory we see his father and, more importantly, his *mother,* who is dressed in very classical and typical feminine clothing, as well as being fully beardless, meaning Cheery isn't even unique in being a feminine dwarf, there isn't even a reason for her to be shunned over wanting to be a feminine dwarf because dwarfs now have two established genders! Maybe if Cheery was specifically a trans dwarf, and it was made clear the Cheery is a male dwarf that wanted to be a female dwarf and that's what is causing trouble, but no! Cheery's backstory is the same in the books! This is a part where changing it would have actually made *more* sense, but no, this is where they decide they *must* remain faithful! Another fine example is Angua. Werewolf, hates it, thinks she's a monster, people fear her, she feels insecure. Except we never really see anyone fearing her or hating her for being a werewolf, the Watch supports her whole heartedly, so no conflict there, and her insecurities pretty much vanishes after Detritus tells her "not a monster" so apparently that's all it took. So that story line goes nowhere and her arc is done. The only one who seem to have an arc that lasts past an episode is Sam, and that arc is also over really quickly as he experience loss, sorrow, anger, get some encouraging words, and then decides The Watch most be resotred and made respected again... all in the span of a few episodes in season one. I mean, for crying out loud, they established really quickly, like in a drive by way, that he and Detritus are increadibly close and Sam pretty much owes Detritus his life. And then, spoilers, Detritus dies in what, episode 2? And then Sam mourns him for all of one episode. Fuck, he gets over his death the same episode Detritus dies! There is even a set up for conflict between him and Carrot as Detirus died because of Carrot's orders, but that goes nowhere and is never mentioned again! Everyone kind of just... moves on! No conflict, no drama, not even any comedy. So much for being Sam's best friend, huh? Hell, in general, the show is oddly conflict averse when it comes to its protagonists. It's almost afraid of having inter-character conflict or challenge of any sort. And that's just how the entire season is. Never dwell on anything, never pay off on threads you started, no real character conflict, no development, no challenge. Just move from scene to scene, from spectacle to spectacle, from plot point to plot point. Don't dwell, don't breath, don't let the actors act, just move on go go get a move on hurry jokes what jokes sure here's some comedy I think that might be funny fuck if I care we must get to the next event! It failed as a comedy, it failed as a crime drama, it failed as a fantasy show, and it fails as an adaptation. TL;DR, BBC's The Watch fails as a show even when you ignore the source material.
If you draw a moustache on the Mona Lisa all you've done is deface a work of art. To that end the show might draw people to Discworld proper, after which they will understand the true tragedy of the show they just watched. Then maybe just maybe we can get a faithful adaptation.
As someone who has never read Discworld (although it is on my soon-to-read list), I did *not* enjoy this show. I suppose I can see how someone might, and I was mildly excited for it based on the trailers, but if I'm being completely honest, I found watching the first episode actively unpleasant and dropped it immediately.
Don't let it put you off. Discworld in general and the watch books in particular are phenomenonenal. Particularly when Vimes reaches PEAK VIMES and does something awesome.
hey daniel you should read lockwood and co. its not related to this video but i just finished it and it is so good and i think you would like it. it is set in london at an unspecified time period (but I Think it's sometime in the 2000's) but the change up is that there is a pandemic of ghosts that only children can see. this pandemic started in like the 50's and the series is about a group of teenagers who have their own ghost catching company solving mysteries and using the information they got by solving these cold cases to catch ghosts. i know it sounds cheesy and bad but it is so good and the mysteries are really well done. if you like a good mystery thriller you will absolutely love this book.
I also found it somewhat misguided that the effort to increase casting diversity led to the very plus-sized Sybil being cast with a stereotypical "cover model" build actress. It reminds me of the some the casting and plot decisions for Disney's confused mauling of Artemis Fowl, with a bit of DC comics "New 52"-ificiation (as well as some of her live action series portrayals) of Amanda Waller.
I can remember visiting the Discoworld emporium a few years ago and got told about the show there (actually met the guy Sergeant Jackrum is based of), let's just say I skeptical even then, such a shame the the watch in the books is amazing and Vimes is one of, if not my favourite character
I think I heard that at some event when asked about this, both Pratchett's daughter and Neil Gaiman basically said this was nothing like discworld at all and they were not impressed in the slightest from what they had seen.
my very first issue with this show before even remotely diving into the deeper issues was the choppy editing/pacing. i had no clue what was going on soley based on that.
Spoiler Alert .. "killing a troll" I'm just shocked they killed off "THE" troll. Detritus is ment to be the size of a shed and arrows would bounce of him and as far as I remember, he didn't die in any of the Diskworld books?
@@Fluffski2006 No, instead of dying, he wields a siege crossbow the size of a cart, and when he fires it the only safe place is directly behind him. So death by crossbow is doubly ironic...
Completely agree with the review. It took me couple of episodes until I started to enjoy the show. I had to separate it from the books in my mind and then I could really enjoy the rest of the episodes. I would love to see more but unfortunately most people seems to hate it so my hopes for next season aren't very high.
I'm seeing a lot of people comparing Sir Terrys writing to Monty Python, it really isn't I promise you. I would say Pythons humour had a nastiness to it based largely on our (sadly still operating here in the UK) class system, Terrys humour was much more inclusive and his anger and humour was pointed upwards. I watched The Watch and decided not to treat it as a direct adaptation but an homage. Did it miss the point? Yes, many times but I still managed to enjoy it
As a discworld main I am happy to hear you like the books. You have never discussed the Witches line. It will be intersting to hear your thoughts on Granny 😊
If I remember correctly Pterry kind of based her on his own grandmother. I ca imagine if they messed with her Rihanna would come with a torch and a mob. I am still amazed how polite she was about it. I don't think I would have been this graceful. The Narrativa logo is shown of the beginning of every episode which is rich knowing that Terry's estate was pushed out of the production after his death
It’s been twenty years since the Lord of the Rings movies redefined expectations for onscreen fantasy adaptations. Clearly no one involved in this mewling, misbegotten mess took any of these lessons onboard. I don’t think I even finished it; what a disaster.
But we weren't supposed to get an adaptation, we were supposed to get a police show about what goes on between the novels, a sort of Discworld version of "The Bill".
@@stephenbarrett8861 Indeed, we got the warmed over remnants of a hack writer's third rate idea re-skinned with Disc references and extra "inclusiveness". Provided you don't want to include the wrong sort of people of course. Because nobody wants to see large middle-aged women or someone who might be mistaken for "gammon" do they?
@@stamfordly6463 I didn’t watch it bruv. I’ve been reading Pratchett for decades. The consistent quality of his work, combined with the frequency he published makes it an obvious target for money grabbing adaptations. I’m saving the Long Earth books. I’m not ready to have nothing left to read by him yet.
They changed so many aspects of the characters and stories, that at this point why even call it The Watch ? They could just make it somehting akin to "Punk, a Discworld Story"
Wish they hired Neil Gaiman for writing the teleplay, as he proven himself in the adaptation of Good Omens as well. I am not angry, rather sad. Only dislike the execution because the cast is really good, they could handle this so easily.
@@bencebotye3904 The problem is that if they actually like the series in this form, they are probably unlikely to like the books, sadly. Although, I hope I'm wrong...
@@fransmith3255 I hope as well. But as I see most of the people tired about "dark and realistic" approaches. Humor is a skill hard to master, and the masses now seeing that.
@@bencebotye3904 "dark and realistic approaches"? Let me see if I understand you. You actually think that being faithful to the books would be a "dark and realistic approach"??
Alan Moore is abhorrently hesitant of his works being adapted, despite being done so anyway. His reason for why Watchmen is what it is, was he wanted to present the best of comics with a very complex narrative with panelling and colour. Alan thinks that adaptations are sort of lazy when the authors created their novels to be read as books and not to be seen as redundant when adapted to the screen. Its interesting, but im still conflicted on that.
I think you’ve pretty well hit the nail on the head. I also think that Vimes and Angua are very well cast, if they dialled Vimes back by like 90% it would be really good.
I haven't seen the watch, only heard things and seen the trailer... Essentially what you say lines up with what I've taken away from everything. As a show in its own right, I might've enjoyed it... but I can't get over the Discworld connections, which means I can't give it a fair chance as 'just a show'. For what it's worth - The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents is currently being adapted for animation, by Narrativia, the company originally set up by Pratchett himself in 2012 (according to the wiki) - hopes are still reasonably high for that one :)
I just love the books too much to disconect any supposed adaptation from the source material. So far In red or listened to pretty much every single one of them and I am not willing to spoil it by associating it with... This thing.
I haven’t seen The Watch yet, and have been working my way through the Watch books in reverse (audiobooks because my Discworld books are elsewhere, but I would recommend them to anyone who likes Sir Terry’s work). One of my biggest concerns is that if I watch the series, the images of the characters in my mind will be changed by their representations in the show. It’s kind of the same way I can no longer picture the Aragorn of my reading of LOTR as anything except Viggo Mortensen. As someone who treasures Discworld and it’s world and characters, I can’t take that risk. I wish them all the best in trying to adapt more of Discworld, and hopefully do better at remaining faithful to the vision that Sir Terry has literally already laid out for them.
As someone who doesn't really like whimsical (?) fantasy like Discworld and loves extra darkness with his grimdark, I love the City Watch part of Discworld... and this series totally misses the mark.
I’ve never read any of the disc world stories. So all of the characters and storyline are new to me. I agree with you Daniel, that it is entertaining if not a bit silly. The actors are great and it’s sad to know that the authors original vision is lost. I’ll have to read the books now to see how much they lost in the adaptation.
The problem is they strapped Discworld onto the show to draw in fans, then they produced an atrocity for those fans. So the audience they specifically aimed to draw they then directly disappointed. This show, may have been a cult classic if it was pitched absent Discworld, and instead thrown out as a odd, whimsical and twisted fantasy-steampunk world comedy farce. But that's not how they did it, and ultimately context matters. If I say where is the bitch in the context of professional dog breeding then we're good, if I say that to my girlfriend I am understandably expecting to be both single and sitting on my arse with a nosebleed about 10 seconds later. This show is a sit down nosebleed.
haven't seen a single episode, watching the trailer alone made me want to die and cry. the books are far more better! and his books has help me in some hard times.
I just don’t get what they did with Sybil. Is it so hard to cast a middle-aged plus-sized woman in the role? Without the wig I wouldn’t know that’s supposed to be Sybil.
I watched episode 1 and I was so frustrated by what they did. They screwed up almost every charactor. Example, Carrot is a 6ft. dwarf, yet Cherry is too. So disappointed.
I was hoping to forget that this existed. Now I'm back at square one. I can practically hear my Discworld shelf weeping. I'd better re-read Night Watch or something to calm them down before a certain orangutan gets mad at me for letting my books suffer.
It sounds like what happened when they did a TV adaptation of the Sword of Truth books that was filmed in NZ by the same company that did Xena / Herc. Alot of fun that had only a loose relationship with the source material. Except "The Watch" had much better source material so it was more a feature in the first case while it's a big knock in the latter.
Given that this is not Discworld, I cannot justify paying for this show. Even if the show is halfway decent on its on its own I will not back a bad Discworld, Even the colour of Magic was an okay Discworld adaptation. Can we just get whoever's left of Monty Python to consult on a Discworld series? Going into what I've Always wanted to happen: A Discworld series of series that has a loose continuity of vision (MCU like in that way) continuity of actors, but not necessarily a continuity of medium. One series, Lets say Tiffany Aching, might be easier to do animated, while most of The Watch is live action, but regardless if Nobbs is in Tiffany Aching he will be voiced by the same guy. I'm not saying every book needs to make it in, you know maybe some books are more alluded too, or become a B story that kinda happens in the background, Maybe Snuff is boiled down to a forty five minute episode, but Thud get three or four and the Fifth Elephant becomes meshed with that. Another fun idea that I think fits into Discworld would be if certain areas of the Disc were always animated in their own style. so Lancre is always animated in a more Shrek like animation style, smooth, reasonably realistic, earthy tones. (Or drawn might work better, either way the colours would be more earthy and grounded, because Granny wouldn't have it any other way) but the Chalk is more How to Train your Dragon, vibrant colours, proportions become more stylized. And whatever everywhere else animation is, the Unseen University has all of them at different points, and Death is ALWAYS rendered the same way in every style.
If the greatest positive of the show is that it doesn’t bore you too much there is a problem. If the story is only functional and all the charm and wit of the source material is left by the wayside, than all the positives are kind of pedantic, aren’t they? Shoehorning in some positive representation should not be a selling point of a show. The show simply needs to be good. It’s beautiful is you can get some positive representation, but it should not be the only praiseworthy thing next to “Not Boring” . Other than that, this show is just an extreme offence to the work and memory of Sir Terry Pratchett. Personally I don’t think I am able to judge this show on its own merit. It seems false to be to try and judge this as its own thing, since the conscience choice was made to just rip off Discworld stories with caricatures of the original characters. The only thing that keeps this from being outright plagiarism is that the show does hold some the film rights and acknowledged Pratchetts work as the source of their inspiration. If not for that this show would be worthy of a law suit.
also thinking that the watch with female vampires and werewolf, with trolls, dwarfs and human and even a Nobby needs representation is kinda missing the point imo
Think I might watch The Watch first, then, so I can enjoy it... and then enjoy the books even more when I eventually read them? That seems like a good plan.
I completely forgot the watch was something that was happening. I was cautiously hyped about the series when I found out. After this review I am kind of bummed and I do not know if I'll watch it. After all your considerations, I think adapting anything Terry Pratchett to screen is pretty hard because of the number of layers in his books. I wonder if anyone will ever be able to do it and do justice to the original work.
I can already guess that most of the criticism online will be something like "it's too politically correct and feminist and SJW" or something like that. That's not the problem. It's a bad Discworld adaptation is the problem.
@@DanielGreeneReviews Yeah, I agree. The books are pretty feminist and all that already. That's not going to ruin the franchise any more than it already has. Considering it's a successful franchise, that boils down to not at all.
@@DanielGreeneReviews but was representation really a problem in the watch with books where it is a major thing to get the actual representation, I mean we already have lots of diversity without changing a word, I mean we have a least five different fantasy races of diversity and two of them are women who are rather high up in the watch, also Vimes' Wife has always struck me a very strong women. and a rather powerful one at that, even if it is not shown exactly how she is. just the thing that she is the only person that can change Vimes' mind about anything really is quite outstanding. but for Christ sake she likes to keep dragons as pets and look after their health, also if I remember she is rather cool about the sudden violence. I don't really get the reason to change a character for representation in his books. I might be in the wrong here, but he litteraly made a book all about how the hardest of the hardasses in the military are all secretly women. I mean why change the characters then?
I think they should have just not tried to make it an adaptation of Discworld at all. Just call it something else with different names for the characters and a different place than Ankh Morpork. If you're going to make it a Discworld adaptation then it needs to feel like Discworld. If it doesn't feel like Discworld then don't say it's in Discworld or Ankh Morpork.
The thing I liked most about it was the actors and how they played off each other. They were giving it their all to make a decent show. It wasn't boring and I liked how it was edited together. Plus the special effects of the dragon.
I watched the first episode, I have never been so disappointed in a show, when I heard there was going to be an adaptation of pratchetts watch I was so happy, I feel genuinely crushed to be honest 😢
Heh, I had the exact same feelings watching it, but I eventually tapped out at Ep. 5 or so (in the mine). There was constantly something that made me cringe (The Librarian's costume, OMG) and at the end it was just too much for me. Pity for the actors and their tremendous effort to pull this out.
Having never read any disc world I really enjoyed it, but there were definitely points where I lost the plot of what was happening and some inconsistencies and plot holes that irked me. However it certainly has a charming aesthetic while they may not have been loyal to the source material it’s clear that the people working on this show gave it their best.
It feels like somebody made a series based on a conversation they had a few years ago in a foreign language with somebody who loved the books... then asked an American to 'make it relevant' ( I mean in the spirit of American adaptations of British stuff... see Red Dwarf, Life on Mars erc)
the best thing to ever come from failed shows is it brings new eyes to the original material to enjoy and increasing the fanbase. and more fans of Discworld are ALWAYS great. bad show or not :)
![SAFEPLANET - ดาวเคราะห์ [ THE PLANET ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4X1XL3I_k3c/mqdefault.jpg)
What did you think of the Watch??
Bad. Gruesome even. Why can't people just adapt faithfully...
Hi, I preordered breach of peace! THANKS for inspiring me to write by own book
So painful. I don't want to cast hate, but this is one show that the desert of the internet needs to swallow.
I... still can't bring myself to watch it. I don't think I can stop myself from seeing it as something heretical.
Haven’t watched it, but I actually want to. I have zero expectations of the show being anything like the Discworld that I fell in love with in the books, but I don’t know how to say this, it looks... intriguing to me, as its own thing? So I want to at least check it out to form an opinion.
The best Discworld adaption is still Hogfather though. You should watch it. :D
I hope this isn't too shallow, but of all the many, many things that appear to be wrong with this adaptation, the one that personally wounded me the most grievously was when I realized that grimy fauxhawk-and-guyliner maroon 5 cover band backup guitarist was supposed to be Samuel Fucking Vimes -R
I agree, but imagining the situation in which book Vimes would do that was incredibly amusing for me.
His Grace, His Excellency, The Duke of Ankh, Commander Black Board Moniter Sir Samuel Vimes (yes I wrote it down, even if the character obviously hate all of these title nonsense) deserves better. No problem with Richard Dormer, he could have been a good casting choice. But sadly not for the character he ended up with:(
I’m so sorry for your pain Red. We all are.
It's been a while since I've read the books, but didn't Vimes used to be a notorious drunk? Maybe this series is about that earlier Vimes.
Hi red
THIS! IS! NOT! MY! COW!!!
bang on the money with that!!
It goes BUGGER IT!!!
Seems like you're in dark place, and should be somewhere else. Do you need help?
That made me nearly cry when he was in the cave
Sam is the god of cops in disc-world in my eyes he’s believed in by 100s of guards across he worlds and feared by thieves in a kind of divine way
This adaptation was clearly created by the creatures of the dungeon dimensions. They see the discworld, they want to be part of the discworld, but their writing has all the poetry in motion of a deck chair.
Moving Pictures was a warning.
Whoa
It was probably the Auditors of Reality behind this one. Something made by something from the Dungeon Dimensions probably can't be physically shown on a screen.
This is comment truly is music with rocks in!
@@pat3002 Bee there or bee a rectangular thing!
They don't even have Nobby and Colon. You LITERALLY can't have the Watch without Nobby and Colon, it comes up in the books. And then they managed to get all of the other casting completely wrong
...How can there be watch without literally half of the first book squad? Is Carrot at least in there?
@@Mirekluk Carrot is there. and so is Angua. And Cherry. who is no longer a dwarf. well, she IS a dwarf but she's human sized and doesn't have a beard and that's the joke so...I don't know what Carrot's deal is then
@@mgormley7530 also as I remember they made her nonbinary. And they made Vetinari female. Vetinari being female I have no issues with, it can be a good way to get some stuff about women into your story.
On the other hand, that's not really necessary when you have a massive aspect of your character development centered around being female, but then of course.. she's nonbinary in this version.
@@theevilmoppet yeah, making Cheery nonbinary is pretty tone deaf. She's pretty clearly meant to be read as trans, and swapping out one minority for another is a really bad look. Makes it seem like the writers think the two identities are interchangeable. I understand wanting to diversify the cast, but that is not how you do it. They also remove a lot of feminine traits from the female characters somehow missing that the way they're precieved is kind of the point. Angua and Sybil are CONSTANTLY underestimated and ignored and talked down to BECAUSE they are women, you can't just remove that! It's pretty clear the writers of this show didn't pay much attention to WHY the characters were the way they were and like, some pretty major themes of the books they were in
Sergeant Colon is the longest serving member of the Ankh Morpork City Watch, it ain’t right if he ain’t there
Doing 'ok' with world building when your source material is Discworld is like becoming a Millionaire after inheriting a Billion dollars.
Sure, it's not too bad, but you still dropped the ball hard.
Haha that’s a great analogy!
Sky1 has done a great job adapting the Discworld... BBC really dropped the ball...
This feels like an edgy fanfic of Discworld that someone wrote in high school while absolutely stoned for the first time
Thats.... weirdly accurate.
YES! When I watched it, I instantly went this is a reimagining or fanfic of the Watch. I liked the series as a whole a lot more thinking of it that way. I think given the source material and fanbase, they could only ever really go in a reimagined direction as no adaptation would ever be pleasing. So they took a risk that didn't flop, but wasn't a huge success.
Ultimately, I think if they had focused on the first series having the mashup of Guards Guards and Men at Arms with maybe some elements from The Night Watch, and given Vimes a touch more intelligence, they could have pulled it off to be amazing. You'd still have fans grumbling but I think it would have worked out better.
Oh and just no with that whole Dark power weirdness that Cheri ended up using to get rid of the assassins. that was honestly my biggest critism.
I felt it was almost like someone in ankhmorpork (the real one) writing a fantasy story based on events that had happened in the city
@@Cheesusful That'd actually be something that would make sense on the Disc lol. God I love this series.
If you listen closely with the volume down just enough, you can almost hear "Discworld : My Immortal" being whispered on the breeze...
It doesn't matter how good your puppet show is all I'm going to be thinking about is why you used my grandmothers corpse as a puppet.
You said it best.
While I understand what you're doing by looking at it as a non Discworld property I reject the idea. You can't use the Discworld name to increase viewership but then get reviewed as a non Discworld property. You chose to bank on a popular name, live with the consequences.
Wonderfully clearly stated. Mind if I borrow?
If all you want is Discworld, the books still exist. This series was never intended to be a faithful adaptation even when Pratchett was still alive and involved.
@@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg its classic coat tailing...the "This series was never intended to be a faithful adaptation" defense never passes muster...if the argument is the story stands on its own without sticking a loved IP label on it......then you wouldn't need to put the label on it to start with.
They did the same thing with The Gunslinger....and that rightly got roasted for exactly the same reasons this is now.
If it is not an adaptation then why do it? Why use the name? To cash in? Sorry for not encouraging that concept. You can change the story but keep the characters - that is what I call a fair adaptation. Changing everything is just a cash grab and I do not feel inclined to encourage it.
@@johntowers1213 it's not 'a defense' - it's what Pratchett said while he was still alive. He said it would take some elements from the Guards stories, but not be a direct adaptation.
We already have a real discworld adaptation. It’s called Hogfather and it’s amazing.
Going Postal was kind of fun as well.
And while I felt the artwork style of the animated cartoons was not the best mix (reminding me more of Saturday morning cartoons than the Disc), they were actually fairly close adaptations.
I feel like color of magic was good to. So really this is the only really bad adaptation?
@@Zeliegrim And also probably the one with the highest budget.
I loved that
I know it isn't Discworld but Good Omens was very enjoyable 😈😇
This review is probably gonna be viewed more than the actual show XD
Let's hope so. Hollywood and now apparently the BBC seem to think people want something different when they do an adaptation. Which is a nice way of saying they're making shit.
@@lelandvaughan4429 Changing stuff is how we got Arrival (the original story btw is great, but would have made for a terrible screenplay) so I wouldn't go that far. And there are plenty of perfectly faithful adaptations that suck.
@@jaspervanheycop9722 You've got a point, Stardust I think is a much better movie than it was a book, but you've got to admit that sci-fi and fantasy have not gotten a lot of good ones. I've been disappointed time after time. I sat through Eragon in theaters.
But there's adapting a screenplay and there's changing everything because it's more popular. There's also adapting a book series and trying to jam the entire thing into a movie because Hollywood has the rights. Thank God for the shift to series. If this was 10 years ago you KNOW they would've tried to cram Wheel of Time into 90 minutes. Would've been worse than the Avatar movie.
@@lelandvaughan4429 90 minutes might, *might* cover New Spring. Maybe.
I think your post got more likes then this show
No hate whatsoever for the actors, they gave a lot to a show that is deeply, deeply flawed.
Maybe they should have held out for a better project.
Well, you can argue with "they didn't read script? If yes, why they still sign the contract?"
Angua and Cheery both seemed to get their characters pretty well.
As somene from the UK, I was curious about this show and so I had a look on the BBC iplayer and couldn't find it. Turns out that The Watch is only available on BBC America. I gotta say, I'm a little relieved.
Americans will think any old shit is Monty Python as long as it has Briddish accents.
They probably thought no one in the US would notice it wasn't really Pratchett.
This comment alone tells me everything I need to know about this show. I am not going to watch it now thanks. The UK is way more familiar with the source material. If the makers of the show thought they would hate it that tells me ALOT.
Plus, we had Line of Duty starting again. Everyone was obviously going to be tuning in to that 😉
@@andrewdevine3920 …..next time we’re letting the Germans WIN
"It is not good but I wasn't bored." Yeah, I believe you. People are not bored during colonoscopy either. But enjoying it would probably be considered deviant. I would rather be bored.
Anybody remember the start of equal rites "No, it isn't zany either". TERRY WROTE THAT.
I still want a "Mort" adaptation made by Taika Watiti, I personally believe his direction (specifically for the Death saga imo) would be gorgeous.
I personally just am not going to watch The Watch simply because this punk version of Discworld just doesn't feel right.
The books always had this charm to them that did remind me a little bit of Monty Python (could be that British humor) and honestly really really am looking forward to the day where we can get a (not only decent but) great adaptation of Discworld because Sir Pratchett deserves better.
In other words, watch Good Omens instead
That is PERFECT
I think Taika Watiti would have the appropriate amount of chaotic energy to make a good Discworld adaptation.
Wow, Taika might be perfect for Discworld!
I'm still bummed that they left out my favorite part of Good Omens: the "other horsemen" who followed the main four, giving themselves names like "Grievous Bodily Harm" and "Foreigners, especially the French."
Part of me would like to see Studio Ghibli take a run at the Tiffany Aching books
One of the most unfortunate thing about the show is that, with proper writing and a better, more loyal, direction, I could have seen Richard Dormer play a proper Sam Vimes really well (given, I don't know much about the character, as I'm early on in reading Discworld). He plays a fantastic bitter, slightly crazy sheriff in the series Fortitude and I was hoping he'd bring a lighter version of some of that same energy to Vimes. Unfortunately, it seems they went with what they went with instead.
When Dormer was first announced as Vimes I took it as a really good sign of casting. But everything else has convinced me to give this series a miss.
Absolutely agreed. Even genderbending character could work. Anna Chancellor is a really good actress who I seen many other movies and TV shows before. Would be amazing if she could play the book version of Vetinari. But her dialogue was really really dry. Any other fantasy TV adaptation in the recent years follow they source materials. It just outrages they don't even tried.
@@bencebotye3904 the genderbending should have some sort of narrative reason backing it up, something like the lover who ran with the blade did hide in plain sight taking on the persona of Vetinari, would have made it a lot more palatable. As it stands it is a series in Bizarro Discworld.
@@zippoblackburn3106 I agreed with everything. Discworld is so massive they had the keys to make a wonderful show. But rather make it with the complexity and humor of "Good Omens", ended up with problem of tone in "Gotham".
Iain Glen would've been way better
Sometimes, changing something just for the sake of changing it, is a bad idea. BBC knew they were gonna annoy people, did it anyway and released this turd. Maybe, just maybe, some things shouldn't be changed?
I generally like it when adaptations drastically change the source material. If I'm a fan of the original, I already know the story and characters. I want to be surprised like the rest of them, not just watch the same stuff I read thrown onto the screen. The key is, you know, doing it right. They clearly failed here. I think a key is to distill the "essence" of the original into your adaptation. If you get the humor and characters right, you can do the source material justice even if the stories in the adaptation are 100% original.
And the British were forced to pay for it under threat of incarceration. (BBC is taxfunded)
@@exerzet2661 No not tax funded. It is compulsory, regardless of income, to pay £160 per household per year even if you can't get BBC broadcasts or do not wish to watch/listen to them. If you don't pay you face huge fines and if you don't pay the fines you are sent to prison. It is state approved extortion.
I wish movie and series writers would just stop taking something and trying to turn it into something else, either ignoring the source material or not doing it justice. Why not make something that was inspired by whatever they want to write for? Just look at The Orville They've done a brilliant job! 🤷🏻♀️
Cat joins the video at 3:50 when talking about Death who especially likes cats. coincidence ? :)
I was surprised after watching the entire first season and then reading some commentary about it to realize that Throat, the woman in the wheelchair that was a low-level gangster, is supposed to be CMOT Dibbler. Like, WHAT?
Is she even selling the sausages in a bun?
They killed Detritus in the second episode. I stopped right there.
They fucking WHAT
@@Deimos2k5 My reaction too!
So it's official, Vimes dies in the future , because imagine how many times the reason he get's away with something because of Peacemaker....
They did what!? How could they do this to mah boi 😠
WHAT!? I knew he got wounded by arrows, of all things too idiotic to believe, but he actually DIED!? That's... So beyond stupidity, i dont even think there's a word for it!
So basically it’s a mediocre show that’s trying to ride the coat tales of a more popular franchise, created by people who aren’t fans of the source material and are too lazy to do any research beyond Wikipedia. Sounds like a grade A dumpster fire to me.
Sounds like some recent star wars movies.
Sounds like recent Star Trek and Star Wars. What is it with the mangling of beloved IPs recently. Is it because making a real effort and falling short is seen as worse??
You are wrong, they didn't even read the Wikipedia, it was more like: They typed Discworld into Google, and read the summary.
Just watching clips from the show is painful. None of the characters even remotely resembled the people they were supposed to be. They even got ERROL wrong! The people responsible for this travesty should be thrown in Lord Vetinari's mime pit, because they too need to learn the words.
I would have settled for tossing them off the hoho, but that is better!!!!
@@ericward8459 is tossing some off a punishment?
@@kellieyang77
Not officially, but the drop is high enough to hurt for certain! At least then something designed be Bloody Stupid Johnson would be useful.
Discworld is Monty python + Lord of the rings, writen by the Shakespear of our time. The Watch is The Young Ones cosplay.
I'd add a little touch of HHGTG.
@@SmalltimeDog I always describe it as "HHGTG but for fantasy." Better than comparing it to Monty Python, which I hear all the time. I'm a huge fan of Monty Python, but it's not at all the similar.
viva el Presidente!
I now can’t unsee TV!Vimes as a poor Vyvyan cosplayer
Vimes is my favorite character not only in Disc World but in literature in general and ever since I saw the trailer I knew I wouldn't watch the show as it was evident they butchered him completely. Showing middle finger to Vetinari?! Thank's, but it's a hard no for me.
I'm with you on that, Vimes is also my favorite literary character and they massacred our boy.
That's how you loose a middle finger. If you're lucky.
In any case, Vimes would be more likely to use two fingers for a rude gesture - the famous ankh Morpork sense of humour
every writer makes a promise in the first chapter/episode. They promised us discworld, so, having not yet seen it, it sounds like a failure as they did not deliver their promise, and it's been nearly a century of broken promises from studio execs and writers, we need to hold them accountable and just tell them to stop making adaptations without caring about source material or exist fans. Having a show loosely inspired by the Watch would be great, AS LONG AS THEY DON'T CALL IT THE WATCH!
The real shame is that this basically kills any chance we have of getting a true Watch adaptation, which is such a shame because I think the Watch is the best of Pratchett's creations.
I've started reading Discworld, especially the Watch series, because of you Daniel and I can't stop reading. I'm reading almost a book a day
Are they short?
I’ve been scared to get into them because there’s so many.
@@noahcaelum6796 Reading 1 Discworld per day is a significant amount of your day gone, but if I got a box of 5 newly discovered Discworld books that Pterry wrote in the golden age of Discworld, but just didn't publish, because he wanted to space them out a bit, and then they were forgotten... (I can dream...) - I would probably take a week off, just to read...
There are a lot of Discworld books, but not enough. Enjoy!
@@JanHgh Thanks for the explanation man. I know Disckwolrd is an absurdist fantasy. And I mainly wants to read the Reaper series or the one about death because I’ve heard that is funny.
@@noahcaelum6796 The key thing to remember about Discworld, is that it's not slapstick - it's not "funny" for the characters involved. And it's actually full of social commentary and philosophy. And great characters.
TBH, it's also less absurd than a lot of classical fantasy. Discworld makes sense, it just has different physical laws than we're used to.
To me it's like The Dresden Files show, as a show it's alright, as a adaptation of the original work, it could make one's skin crawl.
The acting wasn't bad in the dresden files show either. Kinda funny that bad adaptations get not bad actors
The strange thing about the Dresden show is that they started out with a straightish adaptation of the first book (which is strangely not the first episode, it's towards the end of the run) - mentioning the Nevernever and the other races etc and then chucked most of that out of the window for basic PI show. There were some good ideas such as the visualisation of Bob the skull and using him as a way of explaining things but in the end it's just a bit bland.
Sad thing is that with the GoT phenomenon nowadays one of the streaming companies would probably jump at the chance to have a crack at a series.
@@stamfordly6463 Syfy made lots of bad decisions they aired episodes out of order. Side note the reason they change Karen name to Connie is because there's a police officer at the time of filming named Karen Murphy in Chicago so they didn't want to get sued.
@@WayneBHead To be honest changing a character's christian name is irrelevent unless, like Pratchett and Dickens, the names tell us something about the character. It's a silly reason to change the name because neither Karen nor Murphy are exactly uncommon names - there must be thousands of Karen Murphy's out there and odds are at least one would be a flatfoot.
If you watch the series though that one particular episode sticks out as not being like any of the others, it's like it's from a different series.
The best part of the show, imo, was Dresden enchanting a hockey stick to act as his staff. That makes sense for getting around Chicago and not being ridiculous.
I had misgivings as soon as I heard Rhianna Pratchett's comments about it. I saw the trailer and decided to pass. Glad I did
I heard about this about a month ago and dispaired at the very thought of it.
As of yesterday, I finished my first foray into Discworld, having read “Guards! Guards!”. I loved it, and was curious about what else is out there. Even as a total neophyte, I’m more than a little disappointed that Lady Sybil is slim and petite. That feels just directly contradictory to what makes Sybil unique and special.
Shame because I feel like Richard Dormer would've made a great Vimes in a proper Discworld show. I hate when tv/film adaptations choose a perfect actor for the role but destroy their chances at playing the character properly with a bad script (see also Jason Momoa as Conan or David Harbour as Hellboy).
The biggest sin, aside from how it butchers its source material, is that it doesn't just fail as an adaptation that was "inspired" by Pratchet's work, it fails as a show internally. As someone who forced my way through the entire first season, It's a mess. The story and characters are internally inconsistent. Their stories clashes and ruin the story of the other characters. Their characterisation changes depending on what the writer need them to do and be. Their arcs are impressively short, ends suddenly, and are as shallow as a puddle. Cause and effect are absent when convenient. The story is full of contrivance. And the established rules are mere suggestions.
Carrot and Cheery's stories are perfect examples of this where they ruin the other's backstory. Carrot is too tall to be a dwarf, yet Cheery is as tall if not taller than him and we see more tall dwarfs (now there's an oxymoron). Therefore, Carrot can't be "too tall to be a dwarf" because there are dwarfs that are 6 foot and up apparently! Cheery is a female dwarf in a culture where there are no real genders as all dwarfs look the same, except in Carrot's backstory we see his father and, more importantly, his *mother,* who is dressed in very classical and typical feminine clothing, as well as being fully beardless, meaning Cheery isn't even unique in being a feminine dwarf, there isn't even a reason for her to be shunned over wanting to be a feminine dwarf because dwarfs now have two established genders! Maybe if Cheery was specifically a trans dwarf, and it was made clear the Cheery is a male dwarf that wanted to be a female dwarf and that's what is causing trouble, but no! Cheery's backstory is the same in the books! This is a part where changing it would have actually made *more* sense, but no, this is where they decide they *must* remain faithful!
Another fine example is Angua. Werewolf, hates it, thinks she's a monster, people fear her, she feels insecure. Except we never really see anyone fearing her or hating her for being a werewolf, the Watch supports her whole heartedly, so no conflict there, and her insecurities pretty much vanishes after Detritus tells her "not a monster" so apparently that's all it took. So that story line goes nowhere and her arc is done. The only one who seem to have an arc that lasts past an episode is Sam, and that arc is also over really quickly as he experience loss, sorrow, anger, get some encouraging words, and then decides The Watch most be resotred and made respected again... all in the span of a few episodes in season one.
I mean, for crying out loud, they established really quickly, like in a drive by way, that he and Detritus are increadibly close and Sam pretty much owes Detritus his life. And then, spoilers, Detritus dies in what, episode 2? And then Sam mourns him for all of one episode. Fuck, he gets over his death the same episode Detritus dies! There is even a set up for conflict between him and Carrot as Detirus died because of Carrot's orders, but that goes nowhere and is never mentioned again! Everyone kind of just... moves on! No conflict, no drama, not even any comedy. So much for being Sam's best friend, huh? Hell, in general, the show is oddly conflict averse when it comes to its protagonists. It's almost afraid of having inter-character conflict or challenge of any sort.
And that's just how the entire season is. Never dwell on anything, never pay off on threads you started, no real character conflict, no development, no challenge. Just move from scene to scene, from spectacle to spectacle, from plot point to plot point. Don't dwell, don't breath, don't let the actors act, just move on go go get a move on hurry jokes what jokes sure here's some comedy I think that might be funny fuck if I care we must get to the next event! It failed as a comedy, it failed as a crime drama, it failed as a fantasy show, and it fails as an adaptation.
TL;DR, BBC's The Watch fails as a show even when you ignore the source material.
*Discworld* - I have been summoned!
*The Watch* - Oh no!
Daniel is way too kind, nice and understanding to really portrait how much of a mess this show is.
If you draw a moustache on the Mona Lisa all you've done is deface a work of art. To that end the show might draw people to Discworld proper, after which they will understand the true tragedy of the show they just watched. Then maybe just maybe we can get a faithful adaptation.
Skip the Watch. Get some friends and enjoy Dragonheart 5 instead.
I haven’t read discworld but idk this just feels somewhat disrespectful
You know it's bad when even non-fans can see what a flaming dumpster full of dung the adaptation is.
@@Saavryn Me with Artemis Fowl.
As someone who has never read Discworld (although it is on my soon-to-read list), I did *not* enjoy this show. I suppose I can see how someone might, and I was mildly excited for it based on the trailers, but if I'm being completely honest, I found watching the first episode actively unpleasant and dropped it immediately.
Don't let it put you off. Discworld in general and the watch books in particular are phenomenonenal. Particularly when Vimes reaches PEAK VIMES and does something awesome.
Personally I got into it through one of the games then moved onto some books my grandma had great memories, really wish I could play it again
The books are millions of times better, especially the books that revolve around Vimes and the city watch. The show is just a half baked mess
hey daniel you should read lockwood and co. its not related to this video but i just finished it and it is so good and i think you would like it.
it is set in london at an unspecified time period (but I Think it's sometime in the 2000's) but the change up is that there is a pandemic of ghosts that only children can see. this pandemic started in like the 50's and the series is about a group of teenagers who have their own ghost catching company solving mysteries and using the information they got by solving these cold cases to catch ghosts.
i know it sounds cheesy and bad but it is so good and the mysteries are really well done. if you like a good mystery thriller you will absolutely love this book.
My problem is their selling us Steak but giving us fish, it may be ok if you didnt really want Steak to start with.
I also found it somewhat misguided that the effort to increase casting diversity led to the very plus-sized Sybil being cast with a stereotypical "cover model" build actress. It reminds me of the some the casting and plot decisions for Disney's confused mauling of Artemis Fowl, with a bit of DC comics "New 52"-ificiation (as well as some of her live action series portrayals) of Amanda Waller.
Rhianna Pratchett says The Watch shares no DNA with her father's Watch.
I can remember visiting the Discoworld emporium a few years ago and got told about the show there (actually met the guy Sergeant Jackrum is based of), let's just say I skeptical even then, such a shame the the watch in the books is amazing and Vimes is one of, if not my favourite character
I think I heard that at some event when asked about this, both Pratchett's daughter and Neil Gaiman basically said this was nothing like discworld at all and they were not impressed in the slightest from what they had seen.
I am not going to watch that show. As a matter of fact, I won't even acknowledge that show exists.
(you kind of just did)
my very first issue with this show before even remotely diving into the deeper issues was the choppy editing/pacing. i had no clue what was going on soley based on that.
I am still not sure how they could justify killing a troll that is made out of rock with crossbow bolts.
Because the people who make the show don't care about the world they are pulling from.
They attacked its weak point for massive damage?
Spoiler Alert ..
"killing a troll" I'm just shocked they killed off "THE" troll. Detritus is ment to be the size of a shed and arrows would bounce of him and as far as I remember, he didn't die in any of the Diskworld books?
@@Fluffski2006 No, instead of dying, he wields a siege crossbow the size of a cart, and when he fires it the only safe place is directly behind him. So death by crossbow is doubly ironic...
@@bonzairob Indeed. The "Peacemaker" with "Mr safety catch" on. :)
Completely agree with the review.
It took me couple of episodes until I started to enjoy the show. I had to separate it from the books in my mind and then I could really enjoy the rest of the episodes. I would love to see more but unfortunately most people seems to hate it so my hopes for next season aren't very high.
I'm seeing a lot of people comparing Sir Terrys writing to Monty Python, it really isn't I promise you. I would say Pythons humour had a nastiness to it based largely on our (sadly still operating here in the UK) class system, Terrys humour was much more inclusive and his anger and humour was pointed upwards. I watched The Watch and decided not to treat it as a direct adaptation but an homage. Did it miss the point? Yes, many times but I still managed to enjoy it
As a discworld main I am happy to hear you like the books. You have never discussed the Witches line. It will be intersting to hear your thoughts on Granny 😊
Granny and nanny ogg are some of my favorites
If I remember correctly Pterry kind of based her on his own grandmother. I ca imagine if they messed with her Rihanna would come with a torch and a mob. I am still amazed how polite she was about it. I don't think I would have been this graceful. The Narrativa logo is shown of the beginning of every episode which is rich knowing that Terry's estate was pushed out of the production after his death
They turned Sybil into a cross between Cleapatra Jones and Blade. A travesty of a film, a bastard of a film.
Discworld deserved better. 😔
Maybe all the outrage will get someone to release a proper adaptation.
It’s been twenty years since the Lord of the Rings movies redefined expectations for onscreen fantasy adaptations. Clearly no one involved in this mewling, misbegotten mess took any of these lessons onboard. I don’t think I even finished it; what a disaster.
I have the books, I don’t need an adaption!
But we weren't supposed to get an adaptation, we were supposed to get a police show about what goes on between the novels, a sort of Discworld version of "The Bill".
@@stamfordly6463 instead we got neither?
@@stephenbarrett8861 Indeed, we got the warmed over remnants of a hack writer's third rate idea re-skinned with Disc references and extra "inclusiveness".
Provided you don't want to include the wrong sort of people of course. Because nobody wants to see large middle-aged women or someone who might be mistaken for "gammon" do they?
@@stamfordly6463 I didn’t watch it bruv. I’ve been reading Pratchett for decades. The consistent quality of his work, combined with the frequency he published makes it an obvious target for money grabbing adaptations. I’m saving the Long Earth books. I’m not ready to have nothing left to read by him yet.
They changed so many aspects of the characters and stories, that at this point why even call it The Watch ? They could just make it somehting akin to "Punk, a Discworld Story"
This reminds me a lot of the Dark Tower adaptation. Could you please review that? I’d love to hear your opinion on it!
Wish they hired Neil Gaiman for writing the teleplay, as he proven himself in the adaptation of Good Omens as well. I am not angry, rather sad. Only dislike the execution because the cast is really good, they could handle this so easily.
I'm rather annoyed... It means that a proper adaptation will probably have to wait until these idiots have finished with the rights they purchased!
@@fransmith3255 I just hoping that based on this fiasco, more people going to have an interest on the books.
@@bencebotye3904 The problem is that if they actually like the series in this form, they are probably unlikely to like the books, sadly. Although, I hope I'm wrong...
@@fransmith3255 I hope as well. But as I see most of the people tired about "dark and realistic" approaches. Humor is a skill hard to master, and the masses now seeing that.
@@bencebotye3904 "dark and realistic approaches"? Let me see if I understand you. You actually think that being faithful to the books would be a "dark and realistic approach"??
Sometimes I wonder if authors are hesitant to allow movies or shows to be made of their works
Alan Moore is abhorrently hesitant of his works being adapted, despite being done so anyway. His reason for why Watchmen is what it is, was he wanted to present the best of comics with a very complex narrative with panelling and colour. Alan thinks that adaptations are sort of lazy when the authors created their novels to be read as books and not to be seen as redundant when adapted to the screen. Its interesting, but im still conflicted on that.
I think you’ve pretty well hit the nail on the head. I also think that Vimes and Angua are very well cast, if they dialled Vimes back by like 90% it would be really good.
It would be great to have a faithful Discworld adaptation in the future
Sky One did a version of Hogfather back in 2006 which was good in my opinion.
going postal is also decent adaptation
An animated feature of Maurice and his educated rodents is being produced. It better be good or I will cry
I haven't seen the watch, only heard things and seen the trailer...
Essentially what you say lines up with what I've taken away from everything. As a show in its own right, I might've enjoyed it... but I can't get over the Discworld connections, which means I can't give it a fair chance as 'just a show'.
For what it's worth - The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents is currently being adapted for animation, by Narrativia, the company originally set up by Pratchett himself in 2012 (according to the wiki) - hopes are still reasonably high for that one :)
I just love the books too much to disconect any supposed adaptation from the source material. So far In red or listened to pretty much every single one of them and I am not willing to spoil it by associating it with... This thing.
I haven’t seen The Watch yet, and have been working my way through the Watch books in reverse (audiobooks because my Discworld books are elsewhere, but I would recommend them to anyone who likes Sir Terry’s work).
One of my biggest concerns is that if I watch the series, the images of the characters in my mind will be changed by their representations in the show. It’s kind of the same way I can no longer picture the Aragorn of my reading of LOTR as anything except Viggo Mortensen. As someone who treasures Discworld and it’s world and characters, I can’t take that risk.
I wish them all the best in trying to adapt more of Discworld, and hopefully do better at remaining faithful to the vision that Sir Terry has literally already laid out for them.
As someone who doesn't really like whimsical (?) fantasy like Discworld and loves extra darkness with his grimdark, I love the City Watch part of Discworld... and this series totally misses the mark.
I’ve never read any of the disc world stories. So all of the characters and storyline are new to me. I agree with you Daniel, that it is entertaining if not a bit silly. The actors are great and it’s sad to know that the authors original vision is lost. I’ll have to read the books now to see how much they lost in the adaptation.
Please can you give a comment after you have read the books about your thoughts.
The problem is they strapped Discworld onto the show to draw in fans, then they produced an atrocity for those fans. So the audience they specifically aimed to draw they then directly disappointed. This show, may have been a cult classic if it was pitched absent Discworld, and instead thrown out as a odd, whimsical and twisted fantasy-steampunk world comedy farce. But that's not how they did it, and ultimately context matters. If I say where is the bitch in the context of professional dog breeding then we're good, if I say that to my girlfriend I am understandably expecting to be both single and sitting on my arse with a nosebleed about 10 seconds later. This show is a sit down nosebleed.
Congratulations on the book! Can’t wait to read it knowing the work and grind behind it!
haven't seen a single episode, watching the trailer alone made me want to die and cry. the books are far more better! and his books has help me in some hard times.
I will never ever watch it, it is too painful.
Die and then cry? Talented!
I just don’t get what they did with Sybil. Is it so hard to cast a middle-aged plus-sized woman in the role? Without the wig I wouldn’t know that’s supposed to be Sybil.
Honestly, the clips shown here puts me off. It just doesn't look good
I watched episode 1 and I was so frustrated by what they did. They screwed up almost every charactor. Example, Carrot is a 6ft. dwarf, yet Cherry is too. So disappointed.
It’s terrible. Terrible terrible terrible. It’s a slap in the face to pratchett, and deserves nothing.
I was hoping to forget that this existed. Now I'm back at square one. I can practically hear my Discworld shelf weeping. I'd better re-read Night Watch or something to calm them down before a certain orangutan gets mad at me for letting my books suffer.
How did you feel about the Wandavision finale?
It sounds like what happened when they did a TV adaptation of the Sword of Truth books that was filmed in NZ by the same company that did Xena / Herc. Alot of fun that had only a loose relationship with the source material. Except "The Watch" had much better source material so it was more a feature in the first case while it's a big knock in the latter.
Given that this is not Discworld, I cannot justify paying for this show. Even if the show is halfway decent on its on its own I will not back a bad Discworld, Even the colour of Magic was an okay Discworld adaptation. Can we just get whoever's left of Monty Python to consult on a Discworld series?
Going into what I've Always wanted to happen: A Discworld series of series that has a loose continuity of vision (MCU like in that way) continuity of actors, but not necessarily a continuity of medium. One series, Lets say Tiffany Aching, might be easier to do animated, while most of The Watch is live action, but regardless if Nobbs is in Tiffany Aching he will be voiced by the same guy. I'm not saying every book needs to make it in, you know maybe some books are more alluded too, or become a B story that kinda happens in the background, Maybe Snuff is boiled down to a forty five minute episode, but Thud get three or four and the Fifth Elephant becomes meshed with that. Another fun idea that I think fits into Discworld would be if certain areas of the Disc were always animated in their own style. so Lancre is always animated in a more Shrek like animation style, smooth, reasonably realistic, earthy tones. (Or drawn might work better, either way the colours would be more earthy and grounded, because Granny wouldn't have it any other way) but the Chalk is more How to Train your Dragon, vibrant colours, proportions become more stylized. And whatever everywhere else animation is, the Unseen University has all of them at different points, and Death is ALWAYS rendered the same way in every style.
Most importantly; I won't show it to my wife who I have have just convinced to start getting into reading modern fantasy
so happy i have a 15 minute break from uni right now!
If the greatest positive of the show is that it doesn’t bore you too much there is a problem.
If the story is only functional and all the charm and wit of the source material is left by the wayside, than all the positives are kind of pedantic, aren’t they?
Shoehorning in some positive representation should not be a selling point of a show. The show simply needs to be good. It’s beautiful is you can get some positive representation, but it should not be the only praiseworthy thing next to “Not Boring” .
Other than that, this show is just an extreme offence to the work and memory of Sir Terry Pratchett. Personally I don’t think I am able to judge this show on its own merit. It seems false to be to try and judge this as its own thing, since the conscience choice was made to just rip off Discworld stories with caricatures of the original characters.
The only thing that keeps this from being outright plagiarism is that the show does hold some the film rights and acknowledged Pratchetts work as the source of their inspiration. If not for that this show would be worthy of a law suit.
also thinking that the watch with female vampires and werewolf, with trolls, dwarfs and human and even a Nobby needs representation is kinda missing the point imo
I was never gonna watch this, now I know that I'm definitely doing more with my time just watching this review.
Think I might watch The Watch first, then, so I can enjoy it... and then enjoy the books even more when I eventually read them? That seems like a good plan.
I completely forgot the watch was something that was happening. I was cautiously hyped about the series when I found out. After this review I am kind of bummed and I do not know if I'll watch it.
After all your considerations, I think adapting anything Terry Pratchett to screen is pretty hard because of the number of layers in his books. I wonder if anyone will ever be able to do it and do justice to the original work.
I can already guess that most of the criticism online will be something like "it's too politically correct and feminist and SJW" or something like that. That's not the problem. It's a bad Discworld adaptation is the problem.
I like a lot of the representation! I actually think that is in the spirit of Discworld. It’s the other issues.
People with that criticism probably haven't read the actual Discworld books, since they are *very* feminist.
@@DanielGreeneReviews Yeah, I agree. The books are pretty feminist and all that already. That's not going to ruin the franchise any more than it already has. Considering it's a successful franchise, that boils down to not at all.
@@DanielGreeneReviews but was representation really a problem in the watch with books where it is a major thing to get the actual representation, I mean we already have lots of diversity without changing a word, I mean we have a least five different fantasy races of diversity and two of them are women who are rather high up in the watch, also Vimes' Wife has always struck me a very strong women. and a rather powerful one at that, even if it is not shown exactly how she is. just the thing that she is the only person that can change Vimes' mind about anything really is quite outstanding. but for Christ sake she likes to keep dragons as pets and look after their health, also if I remember she is rather cool about the sudden violence. I don't really get the reason to change a character for representation in his books. I might be in the wrong here, but he litteraly made a book all about how the hardest of the hardasses in the military are all secretly women. I mean why change the characters then?
The Summoning Dark was absolutely hysterical and it saved the entire series for me... I agree with you about it not really being discworld..
first?
nah
not for long XD
I think they should have just not tried to make it an adaptation of Discworld at all. Just call it something else with different names for the characters and a different place than Ankh Morpork. If you're going to make it a Discworld adaptation then it needs to feel like Discworld. If it doesn't feel like Discworld then don't say it's in Discworld or Ankh Morpork.
FUCK looking at it as a non DW show: they chose to call it the Discworld, now live with the consequences.
The thing I liked most about it was the actors and how they played off each other. They were giving it their all to make a decent show. It wasn't boring and I liked how it was edited together. Plus the special effects of the dragon.
72 likes, 14 comments, and 1 view. WOW.
I watched the first episode, I have never been so disappointed in a show, when I heard there was going to be an adaptation of pratchetts watch I was so happy, I feel genuinely crushed to be honest 😢
I can't watch it. Just the trailer makes me want to scratch out my eyes!
his portrayal as Beric Dondarion made me think he'd be good at playing a Vimes when it was first announced.
Heh, I had the exact same feelings watching it, but I eventually tapped out at Ep. 5 or so (in the mine). There was constantly something that made me cringe (The Librarian's costume, OMG) and at the end it was just too much for me. Pity for the actors and their tremendous effort to pull this out.
Well at least Granny is safe at the moment
Having never read any disc world I really enjoyed it, but there were definitely points where I lost the plot of what was happening and some inconsistencies and plot holes that irked me. However it certainly has a charming aesthetic while they may not have been loyal to the source material it’s clear that the people working on this show gave it their best.
Please read guards guards by terry Pratchett
Lady Sybill. God forbid any lady of size be cast.
It feels like somebody made a series based on a conversation they had a few years ago in a foreign language with somebody who loved the books... then asked an American to 'make it relevant' ( I mean in the spirit of American adaptations of British stuff... see Red Dwarf, Life on Mars erc)
the best thing to ever come from failed shows is it brings new eyes to the original material to enjoy and increasing the fanbase.
and more fans of Discworld are ALWAYS great. bad show or not :)