Good video. For someone without any formal real estate training,.. you nailed it with this presentation. I am a former licenced Australian real estate agent been living in Thailand for 16 years and I totally agree with every point you made here. Well done Adam.... very professional!
So many friends bought condos and villas in Pattaya. Not 1 of them have earned 1 baht when they (after a long time) finally sold them. Some of them still haven`t sold after being on the market for over a year, and their prices are resonnable as well. Really bad investment ! The Real estate market is not like it is in western countries (exept Bangkok). Rent !!!
All very valid points. Here in Melbourne rents aren't cheap at all, with people even offering 8 months rent in advance & 2 months deposit & still don't get the property. 30% on average occupancy rate in Thailand !! Renting for sure is the way. Great insight into the market there. Thanks Adam. 👍
Very good video. I think renting makes most sense in Bangkok as there is so much new construction that it is impossible to predict if your bought condo will have the same or better value in 20-30 years. In addition, you never know if the laws change for ownership, immigration/visa or if the overall economy goes down.
No, it is not the million dollar question. No No No. :-) If you are absolutely sure you will be here for ten years, and / or you have a wife for many years and children, then you can consider But all-in-all, keep your money and investments in your own country, so if you want to move to another city or another country like the Philippines or Vietnam, or return to your homeland, you do not have to deal with the headache of selling a house or condo first. In your example, 7500 / month and 2.495 million baht purchanse price, plus transfer costs. This is a 3.6% return on your investment before including HOA maintenance fees, possibly 1% / year, maybe only 0.7%, plus repairing a/c, replacing a a kitchen every 10 - 15 years, curtains, furniture and more. Great Video As you said at the end, they do not apply here.
Having recently experienced the joy of finding a new rental in Brisbane I learned some interesting things about our market here. Homes around the $650pw mark are absolute bedlam come inspection time, there will be dozens and dozens of people show up and attempt to secure these properties, many (if possible) will submit an application before they even show up! However, when looking at homes over say $800pw it's the total opposite, you'll hear the crickets chirp as you walk around many vacant homes and the only other person there with you at inspection is the realtor.. Strange times.
If moving to Thailand to retire then your decision is to rent or buy. If you are retiring on a fixed income like a pension then buying is a good option as it means you are not paying rent. Of course if you buy you do need to pay for maintenance and repairs. If you are not retiring and wanting to reduce your outgoing expenses then buying is generally not a good idea in Thailand for all the reasons Adam has outlined. Basically don't buy if you want or expect your property to maintain its value. If maintaining valueyis not important and reducing outgoing expenses is important then buy, but make sure you are buying in the right location and the right property for you to be happy in long term.
condos the only real option unless you have a thai partner who can own land unlike the farang. what about ongoing management and condo costs like HOA in states and body corp costs plus local govt costs like rates etc. great point about the on going cost of facilities in buildings you dont even use or want.
I would also be hesitant in renting as you may get sick of the place & find it hard to sell without a loss especially after real estate fees.I wouldn't live in bangkok myself as its too poluted & too busy for me & i crave the fresh sea air & a quiet lifestyle.
i had to check if i was watching an old cv19 video, 30% occ wow. from what i understand, foreigners can buy condos but not homes unless 1-3 thai residents own 51% of it or something? how do people you talk to there own homes/condos and any regrets? although you make renting sound like the way better option, i didnt realize owning is 30 years of rent! lol
I like opining about this topic so I'm gonna add one more point: Lots of people seem to be looking at this from one angle: "it's cheaper to rent, therefore just rent bro". Here's why you shouldn't just consider that one angle... Imagine, for the sake of argument, you could rent a nice condo for a mere £1 a month (ridiculous, I know, but I'm using the limit case to illustrate my point). Now let's you say you could buy that same condo for £5000. Would you be better off renting or buying? If you purely look at it in terms of cashflow, you'd be better off sticking your £5000 in the stock market, and paying £1 rent a month. But the point is... these might be the glory days right now. You're able to rent for unbelievably cheap, but how long are these glory days going to last? I wish I could go back ten/fifteen years and buy a property in the UK, but those glory days are gone. Chances are, one day we will say the same about Thailand, and you're gonna be sitting and thinking "goddamn I could've had a condo for so cheap". Nothing good lasts forever...
Rent so many horror stories in buying in wife’s/partners name and the house gets sold behind your back irrespective of how long you have known them.When my time comes I will leave my partner some money, she can then decide what to do.
@@Shattered65 Because it's leasehold - doesn't matter where you live in the world leasehold with service charges/managing agent fees etc. versus freehold control isn't comparable, especially with condos. Look at the UK post Grenfell with all the EWS1 issues with cladding and selling flats (i've got first hand experience of this...) Owning freehold in Thailand is difficult. You can do the Ltd co. with 51% Thai director thing but then that has the trust issues, unless you can find a Thai solicitor who is rock solid to be your Thai shareholder / director rather than a wife/GF or Thai 'investor'..😉
Hey Jamie, as a foreigner you can put the house under your name and get lifetime land usufruct although the land is under your wife's or girlfriend's name. Consult a lawyer and no one can kick you out behind your back. Actually, you can kick your wife out if needed 😂 Jay
@@PloyandJayinThailand Thanks for the info, I will leave money to my partner and she can decide what to do, I would have no idea where she would want to live in the event of my demise
Yea, save all your life to invest in a house where the woman has total control of your finances and can leave you and take the entire home you built. What solid advice. You can join the countless other falangs who did the same and join the "I dont know wtf happened" club when left destitute and penniless. Solid info, mate!
@@alexpadilla1110 sounds like you are one of the foreigners who don't know your rights in Thailand. Firstly, you have full control of the house you build if you want. You can put the house under your name. Secondly, although you cannot own the land, you can also control the land when you make a lifetime usufruct at the land office which means that your name is the back of the land deed. You also make Last Wills (both) and Testaments in case she goes before you which guarantees you can still live there or sell the property and keep the money. All in all, no one can kick you out if the bad day comes. You are controlling your “investment”. Feel free to watch our video “Can she kick me out” 😂Hope this helps - Jay Edit: And if your lawyer is smart, he do a few extra papers to protect your money if that is your concern. A loan agreement and MOU are things we did.
@@alexpadilla1110 I would add that you should never spend all your life savings on a house 😂learn to make money to become financially independent. Then you can buy whatever you want without thinking “Is there a risk you lose your investment”
There are smaller condos that are only 8 to 10 floors, without a lot of facilities that have larger floor areas and are freehold title. Some may have pool and gym but a lot with none. These buildings generally have full occupancy so have cheaper shared building maintenance costs. I would avoid large leasehold buildings with low occupancy.
This is a good video which touches on most of the main points. My personal opinion is buying in Thailand is pointless. There is very little capital appreciation. That is the main advantage in the West, but not here. Often rent is just cheaper. Then, if you get bored, or don't like the neighborhood, or don't like the neighbour or want to leave Thailand itself, leaving a rental is almost like leaving hotel, whereas to sell a property you own could take a long time. It is simple. When I move to Thailand, there is no way I will ever buy. No chance.
I bought my place in Bangkok in 2009, I bought it from my dads friend so got a decent price, plus the Exchange rate was 55thb to the £ at the time. The price I paid for my 2 bedroom I couldn’t even buy a one bedroom now in my building The building was only a year old at the time so it’s still looks great even today plus it’s never been allowed to get run down. I work a 3/3 rota so i do like 4 trips a year so it’s good to have somewhere instead of staying in hotels every trip. Plan to retire in 7 years when I hit 50 so it will be a decent base for travelling around Asia. So it’s been worth it for me buying a place.
After renting in Phuket for a year pulled the pin on a 135sqm house on 400sqm land in a small Swedish development in Hua Hin. Cost us 130k Aussie. No more landlords and rental increases. Will Airbnb it while travelling and have a base to come back to 😊
I’ve been coming to Thailand for 35 years. I’m 65. And for me, it’s all about just staying on the move. I get super tired of the neighborhoods, and daily condo/hotel routines after two months can be real boring. It’s so nice to do something different in different neighborhoods, different restaurants, different people. One month in Bangkok, then two months in Pattaya back to Bangkok for a month back to Pattaya two months, fly to the Philippines for two months, going home is always fun two months there, I just live with two suitcases. My retirement income is 11,000 a month before SS (at 70) so buying a condo is not the issue for me.
You are living the dream! I first came here in 1987 when I was 23. I have lived ehre for 26 years since then. I am kind of stagnant now, and will be much happier when I start moving around again soon.
Totally agree with the rent first approach, especially when making the big leap to living long-term/full-time. Renting allows the flexibility of trying new locations until you find the spot that suits you best. THEN make the decision to rent/buy in your "final resting place" (for us old folks 😂)
Why on earth would you buy over there? There are endless downsides owning over there. Properties never appreciate, take forever sell, you are locked in one area/country, renting is ridiculously cheap and the most important thing is you have very limited rights as a property owner.
Thanks, Yeah, I have been looking at different areas in Pattaya to live when I retire. I would tell everyone to definitely take their time. watch Keis One Go see the place in person and not just online. I would rent a hotel room for a few nights in the same area to hear noise levels. Do you hear a 7-11 door chime " Hello,, Welcome" 600 times a day? Is parking a problem? Is it Haunted?
Great post Adam - actually doing the buy v rent with numbers and liabilities (as an owner) is something I haven't seen elsewhere. Most condo's / flats around the world are leasehold and even if you do right to self manage there are still loads of issues (post Grenfell fire cladding and selling flats with ESW1 in the UK etc) - you don't have the same control as a freeholder...
Hey Keis, we've spoken a few times on here via your comments and I was woundering what is the best way to get in touch with you bud? I want to reach out next time I'm in Thailand & network up until that point :) ... I have a few questions I'd like to get you opinion on a few things! 3:45 bro you're funnnny lol
@@asianwanderlust 10 years ago with 1 million baht you could at least get a decent lumpini apartments at about 800k baht. I come from Singapore. And yeah 1 million baht won’t get you anything in Singapore. The cheapest accommodation you can get in Singapore is starting at 7-8 million baht. And that’s just those small flats you get from the Singapore Government.
Re: 30% occupancy rates you said... "This is kind of the norm for a lot of the condos in and amongst the city." I can't tell if you're making an anecdotal ballpark guess or is there a data source for that figure? You also said: "A little over two and a half million [baht] but as an average price to buy." According to Fazwaz data in the first half of 2023, the average condo price in Bangkok stood at ฿10,622,274. So the example that followed cannot be representative of the average condo in Bangkok and certainly not those above. Every financial decision is a kind of gamble, including renting, which as you said is "dead money."
My view. Problem is, market is based on “what someone is willing to pay”, foreigners can buy a condo but not a house (the land), hence the competition is in the condos. Difference between a house and a condo prices is not that much different, due to little competition. Rent is dead money anywhere in the world.
We're living in volatile times politically and socially. If you live in Thailand or anywhere abroad you need liquidity. Could be major medical issues etc. And if problems come here, which is always a possibility, or another black swan event globally and want to get your money out of the country for whatever reason forget about it. Condos sit forever for sale. And no disrespect to the hard working labourer's, but the construction quality is poor in many condo projects. I rent and my wife and I like to move every year to a new area.
Good video Adam with valuable points. We've been living in the condo you showcase today for the last 3 years. We looked into buying but definitely decided renting instead. Love the amenities of this condo, 21 minutes door- to-door to Terminal 21 and with the new yellow line next door even better.
Great video, my plan is to retire and move to Bangkok at 50 (15 years from now)I live in Melbourne and I think it makes much more sense to have money invested in Australian realestate. Don’t get me wrong I love the idea of owning a base in Bangkok, but when I crunch the numbers it just never adds up. I think if your at a later part of life (65 plus) and your planning on spending the rest of your days in the same area (pattya) then yeah you should buy so you have stability and you don’t have to worry about looking for a new place every 12 months
I am from Canada and I would not buy property in a foreign country that I don’t speak their language, the presentation always seems to look like picture paradise until the shit start showing whether with condo fee , and dealing with long distances you have to add the airline tickets if you wanna keep it as vacation spot, don’t forget you have to declared it in your tax return to the government both country’s , and travel is getting very expensive, if you get sick half a world away your medical attention is something to keep in mind, if you want to stay longer maybe for the duration of our winters 3 month ,the smart thing to do is rent ,and when you done with pick up your baggage and go home , renting is far cheaper them investing,sometimes you can get in tangle and always something is left out in the translation
Given how the market works there it would have to be rent. With the under occupancy rates so high I'd always be worried about the developer hitting me for massive common fees down the line.
Dont buy in Thailand. Look at the elderly population vs younger generation growth rate. The economy for investment in future gain isn't there unfortunately.
The most simple way to sort a visa for Thailand if you are planning on living here is to go through a Visa Agent, otherwise you may find it pretty hard graft (but quite possible) - there's many available - just do a Google search. It costs more money than DIY but is a worthwhile investment imo - Good Luck 👍
I'm trying to find a proper ratio as some prices seem outa whack, renting buying or both. Some say that .007 per month is a good figure so a 2,500,000 purchase price would work out to be 17,500 per month. Of course, an empty property costs lots so you'd lower the rental price but that's not as common as you'd think.
Even if i had the money to buy something very luxurious id still rent just less headache can move later on down the track u never know if u want a scenery change afew suburbs away in bkk or move to Phuket or anywhere else in the land of smiles
Renting makes the most sense unless you are married to a Thai. And not a help my sick buffalo type of Thai. The world is getting smaller and the market will rise as the western market becomes only for the rich. People will have no incentive to even rent in places like Los Angeles or Miami. And it spreads further and further. A crash in the economy may stabilize things for a short time but the new market is now buy when people lose and hope you don't lose when the next crash comes. I know someone who bought a residential house in bangkok in the 80's for less than 50k USD. That same house is worth over 300k today. Thats 150k equity after ajdusting for inflation. Now that isnt the same as buying a 50k home in Southern California and selling it for a million dollars like many boomers are doing today but it is a great profit for Thailand. Which comes to the point of all of this. if you buy in Thailand do it because you love living there and love the exact spot you are at. Don't think you will make western gains in South East Asia. Better yet just stay in the west so I can be the only whitey around town lol.
Deffo interesting perspectives. However if you are gonna live in your place it's a total no brainer to own especially when u look at how cheap bkk is vs hkg or Singapore. That gap will inevitably close over time.. Imagine u pay 22k per month in bkk.. Over 8 years that's 2million baht basically pissed away when you could have been financing yourself and paid half the principle off. If u value the flexibility of moving around that's totally cool but it's not a free option
I'm definitely a fan of renting versus buying for many of your variables. Also, I like monthly for freedom versus long-term leasing. After all I'm a visitor in Thailand. And love it. Nice find a Bangkok condo in the 7k baht range. I'm curious how you located it? Take care. Wayne
You've done a good summary and I agree with your views, I think renting is much more appealing but everyone has different needs and views on this topic. Nice job.
I'm a mid 20s aussie bloke who is living in Bangkok with my thai misso, love your videos as it feels like I have an aussie friend around here, keep up the solid content bro
Some points that I think are worth considering: - It's true that historically the Thailand real estate market has not been a good investment compared to the Western markets. However, "Past performance is no guarantee of future results" as they say. - Yes, in terms of cashflow you'd be better off renting than buying. But, just because this is true today, doesn't mean it's always going to be the case. All it takes is for either rents to skyrocket, or house prices to skyrocket, and you'll be wishing you had bought at the current price. It's hard to deny that Thai property looks insanely cheap right now compared to the West. I mean you can buy a condo for £40,000 and be set for life. The alternative is you put that £40,000 in stocks. Let's say you can get 8% return YOY from stocks... that's means buying a £40K condo is a £3,200 opportunity cost. So it's kinda like locking in your rent at £3,200 a year. That seems like a pretty sweet deal to me. - A house/condo is not just a financial asset but a social one. It's like adding inches to your height in the dating game. Your bank account might be fat, but no one sees that. Your wealth outside of cars/houses/clothes are not visible to women and friends. Depending on what you're after in life, those visible signs of wealth can be a pro or a con, but it's something to consider in the rent/buy debate...
In Pattaya it will be like that for many years. Demand & supply is so far from each other. Been like that for years, and it getting even worse. So many of the newly built condos are like a ghost town, its almost no people there, completely dark every night, all year around.
Bro, thank you for sharing. But it’s such a common topic that many TH-camrs have covered. Your vibe isn’t this. I’m here for your true good vibes. Do your thing 😉🤙 you’re good at it. 👍🙏
With a declining population and still building skycrapers , Thailand real estate market should continue to behave like this for a long time. You also have a lot of empty flat owned by chinese as treasury, this is one of the reasons there is so many empty condos. There' s a point that could really change the deal => if wadges goes up a lot, ( faster than food inflation and rent ) poorest people could access better condos, leave the shitty ones that would finally slowly be destroyed cause too old, unoccupied, but the land worth more for buiders ... then we " could " see rental market goes up , but tbh, with 1,34 children per woman, you'll also need a LOT of farmers to go from the countriside to towns to keep this movement. ( Thailand still has around 50 % people living from farming ) Overall , even if this " could " happen, it would take YEARS or even 2 or 3 DECADES, so , we'll see it come and still have time to act and buy if it becomes interresting. My opinion : it won't happen , they will keep building, buying prices will go down and rent should probably don't move really much as they're already quite low.
Good video. For someone without any formal real estate training,.. you nailed it with this presentation. I am a former licenced Australian real estate agent been living in Thailand for 16 years and I totally agree with every point you made here. Well done Adam.... very professional!
Awesome thank you, I was concerned I missed something and would be giving out wrong information so hearing this makes me super happy, cheeers! 🥳
@@keisone No. You nailed it.
Might want to take the depreciation of the thai baht in consideration. Nice video
So many friends bought condos and villas in Pattaya. Not 1 of them have earned 1 baht when they (after a long time) finally sold them. Some of them still haven`t sold after being on the market for over a year, and their prices are resonnable as well. Really bad investment ! The Real estate market is not like it is in western countries (exept Bangkok). Rent !!!
All very valid points. Here in Melbourne rents aren't cheap at all, with people even offering 8 months rent in advance & 2 months deposit & still don't get the property. 30% on average occupancy rate in Thailand !! Renting for sure is the way. Great insight into the market there. Thanks Adam. 👍
Exact same Vancouver. One of the many reasons I moved over here.
Very good video. I think renting makes most sense in Bangkok as there is so much new construction that it is impossible to predict if your bought condo will have the same or better value in 20-30 years. In addition, you never know if the laws change for ownership, immigration/visa or if the overall economy goes down.
No, it is not the million dollar question. No No No. :-) If you are absolutely sure you will be here for ten years, and / or you have a wife for many years and children, then you can consider But all-in-all, keep your money and investments in your own country, so if you want to move to another city or another country like the Philippines or Vietnam, or return to your homeland, you do not have to deal with the headache of selling a house or condo first.
In your example, 7500 / month and 2.495 million baht purchanse price, plus transfer costs. This is a 3.6% return on your investment before including HOA maintenance fees, possibly 1% / year, maybe only 0.7%, plus repairing a/c, replacing a a kitchen every 10 - 15 years, curtains, furniture and more.
Great Video As you said at the end, they do not apply here.
I'm going too bangkok in January and pattaya for the first time but I have bin in thailand before 2 times Phuket. 👍
Having recently experienced the joy of finding a new rental in Brisbane I learned some interesting things about our market here. Homes around the $650pw mark are absolute bedlam come inspection time, there will be dozens and dozens of people show up and attempt to secure these properties, many (if possible) will submit an application before they even show up! However, when looking at homes over say $800pw it's the total opposite, you'll hear the crickets chirp as you walk around many vacant homes and the only other person there with you at inspection is the realtor.. Strange times.
40 grand a year for a rental is criminal
Bangkok is a definite rent city. Great editing as always Adam
Some good points - I have thought about it over the years & came to the same conclusions.
Cheers
Nice to see Jeroen in your video
Great video
If moving to Thailand to retire then your decision is to rent or buy. If you are retiring on a fixed income like a pension then buying is a good option as it means you are not paying rent. Of course if you buy you do need to pay for maintenance and repairs. If you are not retiring and wanting to reduce your outgoing expenses then buying is generally not a good idea in Thailand for all the reasons Adam has outlined. Basically don't buy if you want or expect your property to maintain its value. If maintaining valueyis not important and reducing outgoing expenses is important then buy, but make sure you are buying in the right location and the right property for you to be happy in long term.
Great vid, certainly made me think - thanks 🙏🏻
condos the only real option unless you have a thai partner who can own land unlike the farang. what about ongoing management and condo costs like HOA in states and body corp costs plus local govt costs like rates etc. great point about the on going cost of facilities in buildings you dont even use or want.
Leasehold is another option for owning land for foreigners 😉
I would also be hesitant in renting as you may get sick of the place & find it hard to sell without a loss especially after real estate fees.I wouldn't live in bangkok myself as its too poluted & too busy for me & i crave the fresh sea air & a quiet lifestyle.
i had to check if i was watching an old cv19 video, 30% occ wow. from what i understand, foreigners can buy condos but not homes unless 1-3 thai residents own 51% of it or something? how do people you talk to there own homes/condos and any regrets? although you make renting sound like the way better option, i didnt realize owning is 30 years of rent! lol
I like opining about this topic so I'm gonna add one more point:
Lots of people seem to be looking at this from one angle: "it's cheaper to rent, therefore just rent bro". Here's why you shouldn't just consider that one angle... Imagine, for the sake of argument, you could rent a nice condo for a mere £1 a month (ridiculous, I know, but I'm using the limit case to illustrate my point). Now let's you say you could buy that same condo for £5000. Would you be better off renting or buying? If you purely look at it in terms of cashflow, you'd be better off sticking your £5000 in the stock market, and paying £1 rent a month. But the point is... these might be the glory days right now. You're able to rent for unbelievably cheap, but how long are these glory days going to last? I wish I could go back ten/fifteen years and buy a property in the UK, but those glory days are gone. Chances are, one day we will say the same about Thailand, and you're gonna be sitting and thinking "goddamn I could've had a condo for so cheap". Nothing good lasts forever...
Key takeaway here. RENT in Thailand 😅
Rent so many horror stories in buying in wife’s/partners name and the house gets sold behind your back irrespective of how long you have known them.When my time comes I will leave my partner some money, she can then decide what to do.
If you buy a condo none of that is relevant. You buy a condo in your own name and its yours, wives and girlfriends don't come into it.
@@Shattered65 I would have no interest in living in a box x amount of metres high and paying a service charge monthly.
@@Shattered65 Because it's leasehold - doesn't matter where you live in the world leasehold with service charges/managing agent fees etc. versus freehold control isn't comparable, especially with condos. Look at the UK post Grenfell with all the EWS1 issues with cladding and selling flats (i've got first hand experience of this...)
Owning freehold in Thailand is difficult. You can do the Ltd co. with 51% Thai director thing but then that has the trust issues, unless you can find a Thai solicitor who is rock solid to be your Thai shareholder / director rather than a wife/GF or Thai 'investor'..😉
Hey Jamie, as a foreigner you can put the house under your name and get lifetime land usufruct although the land is under your wife's or girlfriend's name. Consult a lawyer and no one can kick you out behind your back. Actually, you can kick your wife out if needed 😂 Jay
@@PloyandJayinThailand Thanks for the info, I will leave money to my partner and she can decide what to do, I would have no idea where she would want to live in the event of my demise
When you are young just rent
When you retire build your house with your Thai partner
Yea, save all your life to invest in a house where the woman has total control of your finances and can leave you and take the entire home you built. What solid advice. You can join the countless other falangs who did the same and join the "I dont know wtf happened" club when left destitute and penniless. Solid info, mate!
@@alexpadilla1110 sounds like you are one of the foreigners who don't know your rights in Thailand.
Firstly, you have full control of the house you build if you want. You can put the house under your name.
Secondly, although you cannot own the land, you can also control the land when you make a lifetime usufruct at the land office which means that your name is the back of the land deed.
You also make Last Wills (both) and Testaments in case she goes before you which guarantees you can still live there or sell the property and keep the money. All in all, no one can kick you out if the bad day comes. You are controlling your “investment”. Feel free to watch our video “Can she kick me out” 😂Hope this helps - Jay
Edit: And if your lawyer is smart, he do a few extra papers to protect your money if that is your concern. A loan agreement and MOU are things we did.
@@alexpadilla1110 I would add that you should never spend all your life savings on a house 😂learn to make money to become financially independent. Then you can buy whatever you want without thinking “Is there a risk you lose your investment”
There are smaller condos that are only 8 to 10 floors, without a lot of facilities that have larger floor areas and are freehold title. Some may have pool and gym but a lot with none. These buildings generally have full occupancy so have cheaper shared building maintenance costs. I would avoid large leasehold buildings with low occupancy.
Global financial crisis incoming and there will be a blood bath on the estate market, rent now and buy the dip in my opinion
💯
Like everything .. stocks and crypto buy low sell high
You sound like the people that have predicted 9 of the last 2 recessions.
This is a good video which touches on most of the main points. My personal opinion is buying in Thailand is pointless. There is very little capital appreciation. That is the main advantage in the West, but not here. Often rent is just cheaper. Then, if you get bored, or don't like the neighborhood, or don't like the neighbour or want to leave Thailand itself, leaving a rental is almost like leaving hotel, whereas to sell a property you own could take a long time. It is simple. When I move to Thailand, there is no way I will ever buy. No chance.
I bought my place in Bangkok in 2009, I bought it from my dads friend so got a decent price, plus the Exchange rate was 55thb to the £ at the time. The price I paid for my 2 bedroom I couldn’t even buy a one bedroom now in my building
The building was only a year old at the time so it’s still looks great even today plus it’s never been allowed to get run down.
I work a 3/3 rota so i do like 4 trips a year so it’s good to have somewhere instead of staying in hotels every trip.
Plan to retire in 7 years when I hit 50 so it will be a decent base for travelling around Asia. So it’s been worth it for me buying a place.
Good story but not common
After renting in Phuket for a year pulled the pin on a 135sqm house on 400sqm land in a small Swedish development in Hua Hin. Cost us 130k Aussie. No more landlords and rental increases. Will Airbnb it while travelling and have a base to come back to 😊
He forgot to notice that just because the BTS line was built in front of their houses made their property appreciate 500%, stupid farang!😅
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 real estate appreciation
I’ve been coming to Thailand for 35 years. I’m 65. And for me, it’s all about just staying on the move. I get super tired of the neighborhoods, and daily condo/hotel routines after two months can be real boring. It’s so nice to do something different in different neighborhoods, different restaurants, different people. One month in Bangkok, then two months in Pattaya back to Bangkok for a month back to Pattaya two months, fly to the Philippines for two months, going home is always fun two months there, I just live with two suitcases. My retirement income is 11,000 a month before SS (at 70) so buying a condo is not the issue for me.
You are living the dream! I first came here in 1987 when I was 23. I have lived ehre for 26 years since then. I am kind of stagnant now, and will be much happier when I start moving around again soon.
1100 Australian dollars?
@@chinobonito30 US dollars.
Totally agree with the rent first approach, especially when making the big leap to living long-term/full-time. Renting allows the flexibility of trying new locations until you find the spot that suits you best. THEN make the decision to rent/buy in your "final resting place" (for us old folks 😂)
Why on earth would you buy over there? There are endless downsides owning over there. Properties never appreciate, take forever sell, you are locked in one area/country, renting is ridiculously cheap and the most important thing is you have very limited rights as a property owner.
Thanks,
Yeah, I have been looking at different areas in Pattaya to live when I retire.
I would tell everyone to definitely take their time. watch Keis One Go see the place in person and not just online. I would rent a hotel room for a few nights in the same area to hear noise levels. Do you hear a 7-11 door chime " Hello,, Welcome" 600 times a day? Is parking a problem? Is it Haunted?
Agreed I hate it when you move in and find a freakin ghost already living there.
I would not buy now. prices will fall in a few years.
How much can negotiate down in the low season to rent a condo?
Great post Adam - actually doing the buy v rent with numbers and liabilities (as an owner) is something I haven't seen elsewhere. Most condo's / flats around the world are leasehold and even if you do right to self manage there are still loads of issues (post Grenfell fire cladding and selling flats with ESW1 in the UK etc) - you don't have the same control as a freeholder...
Leasehold nearly don't exist in Europe ... except in UK
When you buy a property you buy the land with it 99.999 % of the time.
Man I can't wait to move there and I'd love to own a place when I do but not until I find the right place.
Hey Keis, we've spoken a few times on here via your comments and I was woundering what is the best way to get in touch with you bud? I want to reach out next time I'm in Thailand & network up until that point :) ... I have a few questions I'd like to get you opinion on a few things! 3:45 bro you're funnnny lol
Here we go again........another podium challenge 😃
He got it!!! 🏆
@@keisone Cheers ......it's been a while!!
🍻🙏🏼🥳 🥇
@Sonny.E Cheers Sonny. When Adam establishes a regular schedule of vlogs, maybe we can get back to regular podium competitions? 😃
@@Ian4444four
Hahaha yeah maybe 🤷🏻♂️🍻
Been collecting passive income from my real estates investment in Thailand for the past 10 years. Houses and condos. Paid upfront.
Your living my dream , I’m about to buy 5condos and live on the rent they generate .. 1mil baht you don’t even have a shed here in Belgium lol
@@asianwanderlust 10 years ago with 1 million baht you could at least get a decent lumpini apartments at about 800k baht.
I come from Singapore. And yeah 1 million baht won’t get you anything in Singapore. The cheapest accommodation you can get in Singapore is starting at 7-8 million baht. And that’s just those small flats you get from the Singapore Government.
the condo you showed is $200 USD (7000 baht) a month? is that right?
Yeah haha
no.
Re: 30% occupancy rates you said... "This is kind of the norm for a lot of the condos in and amongst the city." I can't tell if you're making an anecdotal ballpark guess or is there a data source for that figure?
You also said: "A little over two and a half million [baht] but as an average price to buy." According to Fazwaz data in the first half of 2023, the average condo price in Bangkok stood at ฿10,622,274. So the example that followed cannot be representative of the average condo in Bangkok and certainly not those above.
Every financial decision is a kind of gamble, including renting, which as you said is "dead money."
My view. Problem is, market is based on “what someone is willing to pay”, foreigners can buy a condo but not a house (the land), hence the competition is in the condos. Difference between a house and a condo prices is not that much different, due to little competition. Rent is dead money anywhere in the world.
We're living in volatile times politically and socially. If you live in Thailand or anywhere abroad you need liquidity. Could be major medical issues etc. And if problems come here, which is always a possibility, or another black swan event globally and want to get your money out of the country for whatever reason forget about it. Condos sit forever for sale. And no disrespect to the hard working labourer's, but the construction quality is poor in many condo projects. I rent and my wife and I like to move every year to a new area.
MAYBE 10YRS AGO > NOW BUYING FOR 120K in UK even LONDON we can buy the same for 30 square meters 🤣🤣🤣
Good video Adam with valuable points. We've been living in the condo you showcase today for the last 3 years. We looked into buying but definitely decided renting instead. Love the amenities of this condo, 21 minutes door- to-door to Terminal 21 and with the new yellow line next door even better.
Great video, my plan is to retire and move to Bangkok at 50 (15 years from now)I live in Melbourne and I think it makes much more sense to have money invested in Australian realestate. Don’t get me wrong I love the idea of owning a base in Bangkok, but when I crunch the numbers it just never adds up. I think if your at a later part of life (65 plus) and your planning on spending the rest of your days in the same area (pattya) then yeah you should buy so you have stability and you don’t have to worry about looking for a new place every 12 months
Might have missed it in the vid, where is the condo you used as an example located?
I am from Canada and I would not buy property in a foreign country that I don’t speak their language, the presentation always seems to look like picture paradise until the shit start showing whether with condo fee , and dealing with long distances you have to add the airline tickets if you wanna keep it as vacation spot, don’t forget you have to declared it in your tax return to the government both country’s , and travel is getting very expensive, if you get sick half a world away your medical attention is something to keep in mind, if you want to stay longer maybe for the duration of our winters 3 month ,the smart thing to do is rent ,and when you done with pick up your baggage and go home , renting is far cheaper them investing,sometimes you can get in tangle and always something is left out in the translation
Given how the market works there it would have to be rent. With the under occupancy rates so high I'd always be worried about the developer hitting me for massive common fees down the line.
Its all way to expensiv,prices have to go down at least 30% in US$ !The Cina Realestate Crisis wil hurt Thailand a lot!
Rent
I’m with you man!!
If the place is 30% occupied who or how covers the cost of repair and day to day costs other than the few owners
Thanks Keis! From 🇻🇳
I like the cap on but I love cap off.
Dont buy in Thailand. Look at the elderly population vs younger generation growth rate. The economy for investment in future gain isn't there unfortunately.
Never buy in tland mtfs☝🏽
TLDR- rent
Hey Adam How are ya. With living in Thailand how did you go about your Visa. I'm in Australia and have been thinking of making the move to Thailand.
The most simple way to sort a visa for Thailand if you are planning on living here is to go through a Visa Agent, otherwise you may find it pretty hard graft (but quite possible) - there's many available - just do a Google search. It costs more money than DIY but is a worthwhile investment imo - Good Luck 👍
Who will buy a condo for 2,5 M bht that generates only 7k monthly is a fool.. i only buy 2,5 M bht units that produce 17k-22k..
I'm trying to find a proper ratio as some prices seem outa whack, renting buying or both. Some say that .007 per month is a good figure so a 2,500,000 purchase price would work out to be 17,500 per month. Of course, an empty property costs lots so you'd lower the rental price but that's not as common as you'd think.
Rent
Out of curiosity, can farang own land yet? Thanks
30 year land lease only, or through a shell company
Great video Adam! Very informative of the Real Esate climate out there.
Even if i had the money to buy something very luxurious id still rent just less headache can move later on down the track u never know if u want a scenery change afew suburbs away in bkk or move to Phuket or anywhere else in the land of smiles
Rent always been the best option. You can move around and have total freedom. This subject has been done to death
Renting makes the most sense unless you are married to a Thai. And not a help my sick buffalo type of Thai. The world is getting smaller and the market will rise as the western market becomes only for the rich. People will have no incentive to even rent in places like Los Angeles or Miami. And it spreads further and further. A crash in the economy may stabilize things for a short time but the new market is now buy when people lose and hope you don't lose when the next crash comes. I know someone who bought a residential house in bangkok in the 80's for less than 50k USD. That same house is worth over 300k today. Thats 150k equity after ajdusting for inflation. Now that isnt the same as buying a 50k home in Southern California and selling it for a million dollars like many boomers are doing today but it is a great profit for Thailand. Which comes to the point of all of this. if you buy in Thailand do it because you love living there and love the exact spot you are at. Don't think you will make western gains in South East Asia. Better yet just stay in the west so I can be the only whitey around town lol.
Deffo interesting perspectives. However if you are gonna live in your place it's a total no brainer to own especially when u look at how cheap bkk is vs hkg or Singapore. That gap will inevitably close over time.. Imagine u pay 22k per month in bkk.. Over 8 years that's 2million baht basically pissed away when you could have been financing yourself and paid half the principle off. If u value the flexibility of moving around that's totally cool but it's not a free option
I'm definitely a fan of renting versus buying for many of your variables.
Also, I like monthly for freedom versus long-term leasing.
After all I'm a visitor in Thailand. And love it.
Nice find a Bangkok condo in the 7k baht range.
I'm curious how you located it?
Take care.
Wayne
You've done a good summary and I agree with your views, I think renting is much more appealing but everyone has different needs and views on this topic. Nice job.
Slick 👌🏻👌🏻
I would rent myself. You can leave when you want to. Invest in the stock market. It generally makes more & you don't have to do anything.
I'm a mid 20s aussie bloke who is living in Bangkok with my thai misso, love your videos as it feels like I have an aussie friend around here, keep up the solid content bro
Hey Adam, great vid. What condo did you tour and in what area? Prices can fluctuate alot on monthly rental depending where you are in bkk
Rent is the way forward..of your lucky enough not to have to work then you can bounce around Thailand every few months
This is very good information. More realistic then other TH-camrs at Thailand
Some points that I think are worth considering:
- It's true that historically the Thailand real estate market has not been a good investment compared to the Western markets. However, "Past performance is no guarantee of future results" as they say.
- Yes, in terms of cashflow you'd be better off renting than buying. But, just because this is true today, doesn't mean it's always going to be the case. All it takes is for either rents to skyrocket, or house prices to skyrocket, and you'll be wishing you had bought at the current price. It's hard to deny that Thai property looks insanely cheap right now compared to the West. I mean you can buy a condo for £40,000 and be set for life. The alternative is you put that £40,000 in stocks. Let's say you can get 8% return YOY from stocks... that's means buying a £40K condo is a £3,200 opportunity cost. So it's kinda like locking in your rent at £3,200 a year. That seems like a pretty sweet deal to me.
- A house/condo is not just a financial asset but a social one. It's like adding inches to your height in the dating game. Your bank account might be fat, but no one sees that. Your wealth outside of cars/houses/clothes are not visible to women and friends. Depending on what you're after in life, those visible signs of wealth can be a pro or a con, but it's something to consider in the rent/buy debate...
In Pattaya it will be like that for many years. Demand & supply is so far from each other. Been like that for years, and it getting even worse. So many of the newly built condos are like a ghost town, its almost no people there, completely dark every night, all year around.
@@bmath4144I hope you're right. I'd love to buy a condo in a few years
Great vlog mate. Very informative in making my decision cheers
No always rent
Thanks for making this video.
Rent is a just waste money better buy as an investment,especially here in Melbourne bought property investment worth 300k before now value 800k plus.
The subject is about Thailand, therefore Melbourne is irrelevant as an example.
Simple Rent
Nice content 🤗
Rent
Yawn think I'll watch "getting wet in Phuket" again, instead.
😂
Bro, thank you for sharing. But it’s such a common topic that many TH-camrs have covered. Your vibe isn’t this. I’m here for your true good vibes. Do your thing 😉🤙 you’re good at it. 👍🙏
With a declining population and still building skycrapers , Thailand real estate market should continue to behave like this for a long time.
You also have a lot of empty flat owned by chinese as treasury, this is one of the reasons there is so many empty condos.
There' s a point that could really change the deal => if wadges goes up a lot, ( faster than food inflation and rent ) poorest people could access better condos, leave the shitty ones that would finally slowly be destroyed cause too old, unoccupied, but the land worth more for buiders ... then we " could " see rental market goes up , but tbh, with 1,34 children per woman, you'll also need a LOT of farmers to go from the countriside to towns to keep this movement. ( Thailand still has around 50 % people living from farming )
Overall , even if this " could " happen, it would take YEARS or even 2 or 3 DECADES, so , we'll see it come and still have time to act and buy if it becomes interresting.
My opinion : it won't happen , they will keep building, buying prices will go down and rent should probably don't move really much as they're already quite low.