Hey Zane and Thomas, enjoy your podcast--one of the few that I actually watch! So take this comment in the most respectful way: What does USA Pickleball do?!?! Are you serious??? USAP is a non-profit focused on governing the sport, growing the sport, etc. They don't have anything to do with pro stuff, in general. The pros will do whatever they want to do. With over 2000 ambassadors who are out there meeting at city council meetings or parks and rec directors, we've giving out grants every month (over $500K given out to start up locations). As an Ambassador, I was at the opening doing free clinics last night for Beaumont city regional park. I have a zoom meeting with Yucca parks and rec director next week. Let's talk numbers, Zane. How many pro players...and even tourney players are there in the whole US? 70,000? 100,000? Now how many REC players are there in the US? 9 Million? 20 Million? While the pro scene gets a lot of air time in social media and these pod casts, the VAST majority of pballers out there in the Rec world don't know...and many don't even care! When I travel around the country, I look for the local play. And I always meet players who have no clue there are even pro players out there! BUT when I ask them how they got into pball, they will often say they met an Ambassador, or they heard of a new location that started playing pball. I have YET to hear a single rec player say, "I started playing pball because I saw a pro playing on YT." So the fact that USAP hasn't been mentioned in all this drama with the pro tours is a GOOD thing, because we don't focus or deal with the pro side of pball. 100,000 pro and tourney players vs 10,000,000 rec players = 1% of players play tourneys...so USAP focuses on the other 99% of the players in the US. USAP is pretty busy focusing on growing the sport, getting more courts, dealing with sound mitigation, keep things far in gear, facilitating the Ambassador network, growing more grants, etc. I encourage you guys to step back from all the drama of the pro tour for just a second, and look at the big picture of pickleball in the US, and THEN. you'll see what USAP does. BTW, the new Blue Zone show on Netflix has pickleball in Ep2...and in the last 2 weeks, I've heard people who have never heard of pickleball before watch that show, see pickleball being played, and started to play! That show has reached MILLIONS of non-pickleballers all over the world, and has encouraged non-players to try it out. The only ones watching the pro matches on YT or livestream are us addicted pballers. Having said all this, I know USAP can do a better job in showing the pickleball world just how RELEVANT they really are in growing the sport. Those of us on the "inside" see it, and try to share as much as we can, but we know USAP can do a better job trumpteting their own horn and letting everyone know what they exactly do that is growing the sport. Until that day comes, I will keep commenting when I hear people saying USAP is becoming less relevant. Once you know the whole story, you can see how USAP IS relevant and growing the sport. (Disclaimer: I'm a USAP Ambassador and also currently sit on the USAP Board of Directors.)
I definitely was a bigger Tyson fan than I am now. I do not care about the chirping but I think it really showed his true colors by him paddle tapping for the camera and then when he thought it wasn’t on camera he went at Tyler. I was glad Tyler didn’t take his crap.
didn’t hurt themselves at all. Ben John’s is the mainstream face and brings in a certain demographic. TM brings in a smaller but different audience. I’m not a TH fanboy, but after seeing Loong and the fat boy postering and manipulating the situation I’m surprised he didn’t B-slap him. This won’t hurt him at all
Yeah, the pros need to stay on the same team so you can build a fan base period I'm not gonna buy a bunch of Chicago slice gear and then just to have my player. I like switch to another team halfway through the year or the next year.
Eugenie Bouchard career has been on the down slide due to numorus injuries. Not sure how well she will do playing pickleball, but the smaller court and different pace should help her. From a Canadian's perspective I don't really see it as a big deal other then it is different having someone who was as high as 5 at one point in the WTA rankings switch sports.
Pickleball Stars Weigh In On Tour Merger Thomas Shields and Pickleball Pro Zane Navratil Discuss Contracts, Drama, and What's Next Major developments are rocking the world of professional pickleball, leaving players to pick up the pieces. Appearing on The PicklePod this week, co-hosts Thomas Shields and Zane Navratil provided insight into how the stars are coping with the blockbuster merger between rival tours Major League Pickleball (MLP) and the Professional Pickleball Association (PPA). At the 3:56 mark, Navratil asserted that pickleball singles strategy lags far behind doubles. "Singles is, in terms of strategy, five years behind doubles still," he said. "The strategies of singles are going to involve a ton. We're super far behind in singles compared to doubles." Shields concurred that innovation in singles tactics will focus on baseline play and forehand power. Contract issues took center stage when Shields questioned at the 7:02 mark how the tours will handle players' existing deals. "If you signed up to just play all these different PPA tour events, if they want you to now play Major League Pickleball as well, should you be given another contract on top of that?" he asked. Navratil predicted some renegotiation ahead. "These contracts are gonna have to be, they're going to be changed, they're going to be touched up for sure," he said. Former tennis stars crossing over into pickleball was another hot topic, arising at the 13:29 mark. Shields highlighted how big names like Eugenie Bouchard and Jack Sock provide "legitimacy" to the fledgling sport. But Navratil remained skeptical. "It's basically they're just like yeah well hopefully it pans out right," he said of the unproven celebrities. The question of which up-and-comers deserve big contracts came up at the 18:50 mark. Shields posed a scenario of signing either budding phenom Quang Duong or established veteran Tyson McGuffin. After initially avoiding a direct answer, Navratil went with McGuffin for his proven track record in pickleball. But he granted Duong's potential upside. At the 23:49 mark, the exchange grew heated as the hosts dissected McGuffin's explicit tirade against rival Tyler Loong at a recent tournament. "He starts circling back around and all of a sudden, like on the feed, we obviously see some words exchanged," Shields recounted of the incident caught on camera. He described McGuffin inexplicably cursing out Loong after an initial friendly tap of paddles. Loong responded by mocking McGuffin's "family man" persona on social media. While deeming it poor sportsmanship, Navratil downplayed the long-term impact of McGuffin's meltdown. "In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really move the needle," Navratil said. Leaking inside information has become a trend, a development Shields highlighted at the 33:20 mark in discussing the anonymous Twitter account "@Pickle4444." "Clearly getting information from people on the inside and it's decided to make an anonymous account to air some of that out," Shields explained. Navratil floated theories on the mole's motives. "I think it's a somewhat disgruntled PPA employee or MLP owner or somebody close to one of those people," he said. Pros overcoming bad blood was the theme when reader comments arose at the 42:19 mark. Shields worried pickleball teams could see "awkwardness and tension" over contract disputes. But Navratil downplayed the risk. "I don't think it's warranted frustration at that player. I think that frustration is warranted but not towards that player," he argued. At the 47:40 mark, the conversation turned to players' roles expanding to clean bathrooms or provide child care, per a suggestion from the sport's famous prankster, Rafa Hewitt. "For the amount of money that they're paying me I would clean out the porta potties," Navratil insisted. "I'll do whatever the hell they want." The unknown future of USA Pickleball was discussed at the 50:47 mark. Shields questioned the organization's relevance given its silence during negotiations. "They don't think they do," Navratil bluntly stated. He predicted the pro tours will increasingly influence paddle regulations rather than USA Pickleball. More heated comments arose at the 57:47 mark, when Shields read criticisms of Navratil's takes. But Navratil held firm. "I am good, I'm very happy," he maintained. "What else do we have to unpack from that?" At the 1:08:14 mark, Shields crowned Ken Herrmann pickleball's sole OG still standing amid all the turmoil. "He's just plugging along, he's just doing his thing," Shields said. Finally, possible formats for the 2024 pro league reboot came up at the 1:10:42 mark. Navratil revealed all 24 MLP teams will now stay in the top tier, eliminating regulation. He advocated switching to an auction draft for players. "It's gonna be pure chaos," Navratil predicted of the 2024 free agency period. The blockbuster merger between Major League Pickleball and the Professional Pickleball Association has sent shockwaves through the sport, leaving many unanswered questions about what comes next. Pros are sorting through the changes while bracing for more chaos ahead.
If I was them, I wouldn't constantly antagonize and in some cases very unfairly criticize the one guy on tour that could legitimately (and easily) kick your ass.
Since the overwhelming number of players are amateurs, doesn’t this imply that the USAP paddle regs would be much more important than guidelines for pro paddles by MLP or PPA? I think it is fair to say that for pickleball in general, the pro sport is not very important. I enjoy your podcast and views, but it seems to me that you guys (all the pros/media people) live in a bubble. The pro part of Pickleball is the flea on the hump on the camels back in terms of the sports growth. I play at a private club and open courts, and if I try to talk about the pro sport it is rare that anyone has any knowledge other than a vague realization there is a pro element…..maybe they know who Ben or AWL are….
@@craig.tanner maybe you didn’t watch the video, but the point he made was that the pro might have different needs than rec players, which might not align with the needs of rec players. He then suggested that USAP regs might become inconsequential as a result. My point was that in the major scheme of Pickleball, the professional sport is not very important and regulation from USPA would be more relevant than pro skewed regs from MLP or PPA.
You shouldn't be mad at the other players, because they got a BETTER deal. You should be mad at yourself and your contracted employer. BUT. It is so much easier and chknsht to be mad at an innocent party. If they change the contract, you can quit or be quiet. So many players FORGOT what they were making last year. USAPA is in hiding.
If I am at Selkirk, I am doing the math on all the current tennis players not playing pickle that follow Jack over. Double, triple, +8 of current market? Joola will get all the current market of TM fans, so a doubling? Seems like both companies will win.
I think a lot of folks are delusional at this moment. There's no way the new org combining the PPA/MLP is gonna pay 5mil for Tyler Loong for example. They basically had to merge (re-merge?) probably because of the un-sustainability of the contracts they were throwing at players at that moment in time. Any savvy business person would tell you they are unable to pay 30-40-50 million a year to players when they can't even break even in their events according to reports (especially the MLP). Unfortunately, the players will have no choice in their contracts going forward since the PPA/MLP is effectively a monopoly now.
But you’re good with Jimmy and Tyler making it personal against Tyson? Like every podcast. That act is getting old. If I was Tyson I would have taken the high road especially after beating him. Tyler is far from being one of the popular guys on tour.
Did PPA fine Tyson for flipping off Tyler? Precedent was set with Pablo and his flipping off the fans at Newport Beach. Did Tyson's behavior at Cincinnati have anything to do with him leaving Selkirk?
Tyson is the mask of pickleball these days. Just a gussied-up version of the used to be cool guy. Kind of reminds me of the guy on the commercial. Self-proclaimed King of the court.
@@Onomatoptrue. He may not win gold often, but he almost always medals. Love him or hate him, he did a great job at building his brand and making Pickleball more exciting to watch.
Hey Zane and Thomas, enjoy your podcast--one of the few that I actually watch! So take this comment in the most respectful way: What does USA Pickleball do?!?! Are you serious??? USAP is a non-profit focused on governing the sport, growing the sport, etc. They don't have anything to do with pro stuff, in general. The pros will do whatever they want to do.
With over 2000 ambassadors who are out there meeting at city council meetings or parks and rec directors, we've giving out grants every month (over $500K given out to start up locations). As an Ambassador, I was at the opening doing free clinics last night for Beaumont city regional park. I have a zoom meeting with Yucca parks and rec director next week.
Let's talk numbers, Zane. How many pro players...and even tourney players are there in the whole US? 70,000? 100,000? Now how many REC players are there in the US? 9 Million? 20 Million? While the pro scene gets a lot of air time in social media and these pod casts, the VAST majority of pballers out there in the Rec world don't know...and many don't even care! When I travel around the country, I look for the local play. And I always meet players who have no clue there are even pro players out there!
BUT when I ask them how they got into pball, they will often say they met an Ambassador, or they heard of a new location that started playing pball. I have YET to hear a single rec player say, "I started playing pball because I saw a pro playing on YT."
So the fact that USAP hasn't been mentioned in all this drama with the pro tours is a GOOD thing, because we don't focus or deal with the pro side of pball. 100,000 pro and tourney players vs 10,000,000 rec players = 1% of players play tourneys...so USAP focuses on the other 99% of the players in the US. USAP is pretty busy focusing on growing the sport, getting more courts, dealing with sound mitigation, keep things far in gear, facilitating the Ambassador network, growing more grants, etc.
I encourage you guys to step back from all the drama of the pro tour for just a second, and look at the big picture of pickleball in the US, and THEN. you'll see what USAP does.
BTW, the new Blue Zone show on Netflix has pickleball in Ep2...and in the last 2 weeks, I've heard people who have never heard of pickleball before watch that show, see pickleball being played, and started to play! That show has reached MILLIONS of non-pickleballers all over the world, and has encouraged non-players to try it out. The only ones watching the pro matches on YT or livestream are us addicted pballers.
Having said all this, I know USAP can do a better job in showing the pickleball world just how RELEVANT they really are in growing the sport. Those of us on the "inside" see it, and try to share as much as we can, but we know USAP can do a better job trumpteting their own horn and letting everyone know what they exactly do that is growing the sport. Until that day comes, I will keep commenting when I hear people saying USAP is becoming less relevant. Once you know the whole story, you can see how USAP IS relevant and growing the sport.
(Disclaimer: I'm a USAP Ambassador and also currently sit on the USAP Board of Directors.)
Love it! We'll read this on the next episode 👍
Plot twist, Blenn Johns and Collindo Johns with out of place mustaches win and bet Zane $10,000 on the game.
HAHAHAH
I definitely was a bigger Tyson fan than I am now.
I do not care about the chirping but I think it really showed his true colors by him paddle tapping for the camera and then when he thought it wasn’t on camera he went at Tyler. I was glad Tyler didn’t take his crap.
@@aaron_pickleballStill a horrible way of handling the situation. Completely immature and classless.
Joola just hurt themselves. Tyson is a bully…not a family man
didn’t hurt themselves at all. Ben John’s is the mainstream face and brings in a certain demographic. TM brings in a smaller but different audience. I’m not a TH fanboy, but after seeing Loong and the fat boy postering and manipulating the situation I’m surprised he didn’t B-slap him. This won’t hurt him at all
So true! Lol everyone thinks they can go pro and you can’t interfere. It’s a canon event.
Yeah, the pros need to stay on the same team so you can build a fan base period I'm not gonna buy a bunch of Chicago slice gear and then just to have my player. I like switch to another team halfway through the year or the next year.
Eugenie Bouchard career has been on the down slide due to numorus injuries. Not sure how well she will do playing pickleball, but the smaller court and different pace should help her. From a Canadian's perspective I don't really see it as a big deal other then it is different having someone who was as high as 5 at one point in the WTA rankings switch sports.
Pickleball Stars Weigh In On Tour Merger
Thomas Shields and Pickleball Pro Zane Navratil Discuss Contracts, Drama, and What's Next
Major developments are rocking the world of professional pickleball, leaving players to pick up the pieces.
Appearing on The PicklePod this week, co-hosts Thomas Shields and Zane Navratil provided insight into how the stars are coping with the blockbuster merger between rival tours Major League Pickleball (MLP) and the Professional Pickleball Association (PPA).
At the 3:56 mark, Navratil asserted that pickleball singles strategy lags far behind doubles. "Singles is, in terms of strategy, five years behind doubles still," he said. "The strategies of singles are going to involve a ton. We're super far behind in singles compared to doubles."
Shields concurred that innovation in singles tactics will focus on baseline play and forehand power.
Contract issues took center stage when Shields questioned at the 7:02 mark how the tours will handle players' existing deals. "If you signed up to just play all these different PPA tour events, if they want you to now play Major League Pickleball as well, should you be given another contract on top of that?" he asked.
Navratil predicted some renegotiation ahead. "These contracts are gonna have to be, they're going to be changed, they're going to be touched up for sure," he said.
Former tennis stars crossing over into pickleball was another hot topic, arising at the 13:29 mark. Shields highlighted how big names like Eugenie Bouchard and Jack Sock provide "legitimacy" to the fledgling sport.
But Navratil remained skeptical. "It's basically they're just like yeah well hopefully it pans out right," he said of the unproven celebrities.
The question of which up-and-comers deserve big contracts came up at the 18:50 mark. Shields posed a scenario of signing either budding phenom Quang Duong or established veteran Tyson McGuffin.
After initially avoiding a direct answer, Navratil went with McGuffin for his proven track record in pickleball. But he granted Duong's potential upside.
At the 23:49 mark, the exchange grew heated as the hosts dissected McGuffin's explicit tirade against rival Tyler Loong at a recent tournament.
"He starts circling back around and all of a sudden, like on the feed, we obviously see some words exchanged," Shields recounted of the incident caught on camera.
He described McGuffin inexplicably cursing out Loong after an initial friendly tap of paddles. Loong responded by mocking McGuffin's "family man" persona on social media.
While deeming it poor sportsmanship, Navratil downplayed the long-term impact of McGuffin's meltdown. "In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really move the needle," Navratil said.
Leaking inside information has become a trend, a development Shields highlighted at the 33:20 mark in discussing the anonymous Twitter account "@Pickle4444."
"Clearly getting information from people on the inside and it's decided to make an anonymous account to air some of that out," Shields explained.
Navratil floated theories on the mole's motives. "I think it's a somewhat disgruntled PPA employee or MLP owner or somebody close to one of those people," he said.
Pros overcoming bad blood was the theme when reader comments arose at the 42:19 mark. Shields worried pickleball teams could see "awkwardness and tension" over contract disputes.
But Navratil downplayed the risk. "I don't think it's warranted frustration at that player. I think that frustration is warranted but not towards that player," he argued.
At the 47:40 mark, the conversation turned to players' roles expanding to clean bathrooms or provide child care, per a suggestion from the sport's famous prankster, Rafa Hewitt.
"For the amount of money that they're paying me I would clean out the porta potties," Navratil insisted. "I'll do whatever the hell they want."
The unknown future of USA Pickleball was discussed at the 50:47 mark. Shields questioned the organization's relevance given its silence during negotiations.
"They don't think they do," Navratil bluntly stated. He predicted the pro tours will increasingly influence paddle regulations rather than USA Pickleball.
More heated comments arose at the 57:47 mark, when Shields read criticisms of Navratil's takes. But Navratil held firm. "I am good, I'm very happy," he maintained. "What else do we have to unpack from that?"
At the 1:08:14 mark, Shields crowned Ken Herrmann pickleball's sole OG still standing amid all the turmoil. "He's just plugging along, he's just doing his thing," Shields said.
Finally, possible formats for the 2024 pro league reboot came up at the 1:10:42 mark. Navratil revealed all 24 MLP teams will now stay in the top tier, eliminating regulation. He advocated switching to an auction draft for players.
"It's gonna be pure chaos," Navratil predicted of the 2024 free agency period.
The blockbuster merger between Major League Pickleball and the Professional Pickleball Association has sent shockwaves through the sport, leaving many unanswered questions about what comes next. Pros are sorting through the changes while bracing for more chaos ahead.
Zane, wouldn't your flipping off people mean you pay the swear jar??
Jimmy and Tyler spend half of their podcast shitting on Tyson, he was stupid but I don’t blame him for finally snapping
If I was them, I wouldn't constantly antagonize and in some cases very unfairly criticize the one guy on tour that could legitimately (and easily) kick your ass.
Alzheimers now questions?
Since the overwhelming number of players are amateurs, doesn’t this imply that the USAP paddle regs would be much more important than guidelines for pro paddles by MLP or PPA? I think it is fair to say that for pickleball in general, the pro sport is not very important. I enjoy your podcast and views, but it seems to me that you guys (all the pros/media people) live in a bubble. The pro part of Pickleball is the flea on the hump on the camels back in terms of the sports growth. I play at a private club and open courts, and if I try to talk about the pro sport it is rare that anyone has any knowledge other than a vague realization there is a pro element…..maybe they know who Ben or AWL are….
You don't need to know the pro game to have pro leagues lead out on best practices or regulations for play and gear.
@@craig.tanner maybe you didn’t watch the video, but the point he made was that the pro might have different needs than rec players, which might not align with the needs of rec players. He then suggested that USAP regs might become inconsequential as a result. My point was that in the major scheme of Pickleball, the professional sport is not very important and regulation from USPA would be more relevant than pro skewed regs from MLP or PPA.
@@echochapman7657 thank you for letting me know that I didn't watch the video Karen
@@craig.tanner thought so, or you wouldn’t have made such an ignorant comment, sfb
@@echochapman7657 wow snowflake I really hurt your feelings by having a different opinion. Put your big boy pants on. It will all be okay.
You shouldn't be mad at the other players, because they got a BETTER deal. You should be mad at yourself and your contracted employer. BUT. It is so much easier and chknsht to be mad at an innocent party. If they change the contract, you can quit or be quiet. So many players FORGOT what they were making last year. USAPA is in hiding.
C'mon boomers - nobody uses twitter anymore. Step in to the 21st century and get on threads with the rest of us. Geez 😂
Maybe the format you play doesn't matter Zane, but I do think the number of tourneys mattered to quite a few players who signed with MLP
If I am at Selkirk, I am doing the math on all the current tennis players not playing pickle that follow Jack over. Double, triple, +8 of current market? Joola will get all the current market of TM fans, so a doubling? Seems like both companies will win.
How many people do you need to be able to get signed up to get Honcho to work in your city and work well?
What happened to the Pickle4444 account?!?!?!?
I think a lot of folks are delusional at this moment. There's no way the new org combining the PPA/MLP is gonna pay 5mil for Tyler Loong for example. They basically had to merge (re-merge?) probably because of the un-sustainability of the contracts they were throwing at players at that moment in time. Any savvy business person would tell you they are unable to pay 30-40-50 million a year to players when they can't even break even in their events according to reports (especially the MLP). Unfortunately, the players will have no choice in their contracts going forward since the PPA/MLP is effectively a monopoly now.
Tyler getting $5m a year is absolutely a joke lol
Explain more about Honcho and how we could get it in our city.
honchopickle.com
Actually a good podcast
I've never been much of a fan of Mcguffin but even less so now.
We stan with Tyson!
But you’re good with Jimmy and Tyler making it personal against Tyson? Like every podcast. That act is getting old. If I was Tyson I would have taken the high road especially after beating him. Tyler is far from being one of the popular guys on tour.
@@jimwaldemarsen472 no, I'm not. I just said I'm not a fan of Tyson.
These pro tennis players are all gonna be a bust, its a different game and you cant play pickleball like tennis.
Disparity in salaries is an interesting thing. In baseball, for example, you have rookies making 750K alongside guys making 35M.
Did PPA fine Tyson for flipping off Tyler? Precedent was set with Pablo and his flipping off the fans at Newport Beach. Did Tyson's behavior at Cincinnati have anything to do with him leaving Selkirk?
If I'm playing aguy being paid 3 to 10 times as I am I would hit the ball into the stands on every shot
Where is yesterday’s podcast?
Good move for Joola. Love Ben, but Tyson is very charismatic and drives a lot of sales in the pickleball world.
Make podcast in louder volume please,
Turn up your hearing aid dude
On my computer, the volume is fine.
Tyson is the mask of pickleball these days. Just a gussied-up version of the used to be cool guy. Kind of reminds me of the guy on the commercial. Self-proclaimed King of the court.
Huh? His medal count for the tournaments he’s played in this year is probably higher than any other male except Ben.
@@Onomatoptrue. He may not win gold often, but he almost always medals. Love him or hate him, he did a great job at building his brand and making Pickleball more exciting to watch.
Tyson all day!!!