Very interesting - And Good job on it too. Ultimately though, the ground wheels would be on the baler itself, so you could utilize the balers weight for traction. Also, a round baler should require less power overall since it has less moving parts, thus reducing skidding even more.
Can't speak on converting the baler, but small square bales are more attractive to the horse market and tend to bring a premium over round bales. In my area, round bales are $35-40 for 4*5s which are 900-1200 pounds (I think) that same bale can make 18-24 round bales for $3-6 a piece which would bring in 54-144 for the same amount of hay. Round bales are great if you don't have the manpower or have large acreages, but for maximizing profits on a smaller scale, square bales are king.
There is another Amish man from Ohio I believe that has made a conversion kit for Deere balers to be ground driven since the flywheel is inline with the ground wheel unlike new holland balers. There is at least one video on TH-cam with it. Makes for a very jerky ride when you are riding on the baler with no forecart.
One big issue with round bales is the weight behind the forecart. They do power them with Diesel engines on forecart which gives cart some weight. Otherwise the baler as it rolls bale can get heavy and push forecart around
I work with my donkeys while the farmers around laugh at me watching from the seat of their 180 hp tractors: I spend much less, respect the environment much more, enjoy my work and my products are far better, so I am happy this way.
We are venturing into a discussion too large for these lines. The way I see it entails a different concept of scale economy and a different ethic that should drive food production and wealth distribution. The world has moved so far from sustainability that we've lost the bundle: animal traction applied to organic agriculture could significantly help tracing the way back to a sense of sobriety we've long lost.
Lovely forecart. Is it still manifactured ? Baling is one job we cannot accomplish without a motor FC, here. It doesn't look like the bales are very much pulled tight, though, with that power applied, while the horses really seem to be working pretty hard.
Unfortunately, economy is only measured in money. If suddenly, there was not enough food, your money would not feed you. So it's not just a case of being economic, it's most certainly also a case of quantity. And machines are very, very good at producing large quantities of stuff. There used to be a rather nice dissention on muscle power vs. machine power (by Lancaster University I believe) which touched base on that very subject. Heck, just breeding enough horses would be a nightmare.
But, people don't want to move backwards, they want to move forwards. They also don't want massive famines. A problem with going "back" to old style farming, even with the aid of modernized equipment, is that we'd have to convert a large part of the population into farmers - And they don't want that, and it would stunt civilization growth. Making food production more efficient have been the biggest movers in increased wealth of all time. The plow created more art than any scholarship ever did.
Sludik Aaa hi I did some research because I was just as interested as you were. the red thing that the guy is sitting on is called a PTO forecart and the John Deere baler seams to be a 338 square baler 👍
If you take the time of doing some research, you'll find there's some studies (I think one was published from the University of Michigan) that prove how from the economy point of view the horse has an edge over tractors. Check out The Small Farmer's Journal back numbers. That's because horses PRODUCE (manure, foals, meet if you dare) while machines - growing more and more complicated - need costy maintenance, fuel, lubricants, spares, insurance, taxes even when they sleep in the barn.
farmingwithhorses.com/hd-ground-drive-pto-forecarts/ they come with seats, though I've heard they're pretty uncomfy. This is likely a demonstration or early model.
TH-cam video by Avego - real-time ridesharing demo. They seem to be making some progress in Seattle. Tricky though. Bosses need to be more flexible with work hours. If people had flexitime then the peak rush hour could be avoided and everything could move more efficiently = less fuel consumption. Horse droppings could be easily swept up with mechanical brush on tractor bucket now a days & carted back to fields. But mixing horses & cars would just cause congestion & increase fuel consumption
Ok keep going with the modern agriculture & construction equipment but maybe public car use could be switched to pony & trap ? Trouble with horses on roads is that they would slow down lorries, cause congestion and increase fuel consumption. So over all cancelling out any gains
LAte reply so I don't know how usefult his is, but Farmingwithhorses.com is I and J's website that lists all the prices. its $6,600 for a heavy-duty forecart with 'the works' like brakes and such.
Well what about car sharing as a more realistic idea? If there was an internet based car sharing program everyone could type in their travel plans then the super clever program could plan optimum route and send it to your sat nav ? Maybe only 10 % of 250 million U.S cars would be used each day that way ? Trouble is would you trust the person you shared the journey with ? Potential for trouble there. Maybe better just to arrange with a friend ?
erhh ... there's so much wrong with what you just said, that I can barely begin. First off though, if we switched all away from mechanized farming, we wouldn't be able to produce enough food, and vast famines would be the result. The reason is simple, a tractor doesn't eat food, but rather fuel, so all the food produced goes straight to human mouths. A horse on the other hand ... Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the technical excersize of creating a horsedrawn baler, but it's just a toy.
Moving away from machines for farming would open the door for more people to be involved in farming. Tractors don’t eat, they only use a limited resource that is diminishing in quantity. Horse eats grass that grows every year and can be increased through breeding. In 1915 there was estimated 20 million horses in the USA. Doing 99% of the farming. Today there is around 10 million. Half as many and yet they do what .001% of the farming. Saying we can use horses to farm today bc they would eat all that is farmed is ludacris.
@@justinallmond3855 There was about 100 million people in the US in 1915, today that number has TRIPLED! You cannot produce enough food, using old school farming technology. Also, historically the less that are involved in farming, the more we can work on luxury good, art, government, education, health facilities and so on - So there's a good argument that you do not really want more people involved in farming. As for tractors, those will become electrical soon enough, probably with a methane fuel cell, with methane harvested from pig and cow poop.
Thre's already many car sharing programs, but they seldom work out, because someone is running late, or their child is throwing a temper tantrum, or the car won't start, or they are snowed in. I bet you much money that your boss won't care wether or not your car share buddy was running late because he stubbed his foot on the door. Basically, there's too many variables and not enough patience to go around.
I would think that is how fast it would have to go for baling, but their website says the two options are 340/500 rpm. Technically under powered for baling, but obviously works.
It gets worse, they require stables to stand around in during the winter, and fodder too - while doing nothing in return ... heck, can you imagine trying to park your horse during rush hour ? There would be horse shit everywhere. XD
This is the way forward. We need to get the top politician to see this. I think it is time to ban motorcars & motor bikes and move forward to pony & trap or pony & Hansom cab or bicycles. We need to do this before the oil runs out and before we ruin the planet with global warming. Also switch to horse power would require grassland which could have clover in to help save the bees.
damn dem some loose bails... need to cranks em alittle tighter.. working the poor man to death in the back... alot of mouths to feed.. cheaper to have a 50hp tractor
I remember my father saying that he was the envy of his neighbors when he was baling. because he had one of the first tractors in the district with a 'live' PTO. Lumpy swaths would be a definite no no with this set up!
This is so cool, all that with just 4 horse power. When I was in high school I worked the hay fields hauling the square bales to the barns.
Beautiful team, well trained.
Very interesting - And Good job on it too.
Ultimately though, the ground wheels would be on the baler itself, so you could utilize the balers weight for traction. Also, a round baler should require less power overall since it has less moving parts, thus reducing skidding even more.
Can't speak on converting the baler, but small square bales are more attractive to the horse market and tend to bring a premium over round bales. In my area, round bales are $35-40 for 4*5s which are 900-1200 pounds (I think) that same bale can make 18-24 round bales for $3-6 a piece which would bring in 54-144 for the same amount of hay. Round bales are great if you don't have the manpower or have large acreages, but for maximizing profits on a smaller scale, square bales are king.
There is another Amish man from Ohio I believe that has made a conversion kit for Deere balers to be ground driven since the flywheel is inline with the ground wheel unlike new holland balers. There is at least one video on TH-cam with it. Makes for a very jerky ride when you are riding on the baler with no forecart.
One big issue with round bales is the weight behind the forecart. They do power them with Diesel engines on forecart which gives cart some weight. Otherwise the baler as it rolls bale can get heavy and push forecart around
Amazing!!
I work with my donkeys while the farmers around laugh at me watching from the seat of their 180 hp tractors: I spend much less, respect the environment much more, enjoy my work and my products are far better, so I am happy this way.
scorda
We are venturing into a discussion too large for these lines. The way I see it entails a different concept of scale economy and a different ethic that should drive food production and wealth distribution. The world has moved so far from sustainability that we've lost the bundle: animal traction applied to organic agriculture could significantly help tracing the way back to a sense of sobriety we've long lost.
It is the end of history.
Lovely forecart. Is it still manifactured ? Baling is one job we cannot accomplish without a motor FC, here.
It doesn't look like the bales are very much pulled tight, though, with that power applied, while the horses really seem to be working pretty hard.
I think the ground drive (and horses) would struggle if the bales were much tighter. Much more power required for tighter bales.
That's a good method of "GOING GREEN" . Think I'll stick with a tractor.
Unfortunately, economy is only measured in money. If suddenly, there was not enough food, your money would not feed you.
So it's not just a case of being economic, it's most certainly also a case of quantity. And machines are very, very good at producing large quantities of stuff.
There used to be a rather nice dissention on muscle power vs. machine power (by Lancaster University I believe) which touched base on that very subject.
Heck, just breeding enough horses would be a nightmare.
yes,that's real green energy.good job!
I have to wonder what the machines limitations are. It's really cool to see this run without a big tractor.
This also get sshown at Horse Progress Days every year, and if I remember correctly it can run most things that take
What a nice team!
The Bales did look a little loose. Was it possible to tighten them up?
If you check out their website, the PTO seems a little light, but also horse market favors 40-50lb bales, at least where I am
But, people don't want to move backwards, they want to move forwards. They also don't want massive famines.
A problem with going "back" to old style farming, even with the aid of modernized equipment, is that we'd have to convert a large part of the population into farmers - And they don't want that, and it would stunt civilization growth.
Making food production more efficient have been the biggest movers in increased wealth of all time. The plow created more art than any scholarship ever did.
Pls can anyone tell me the name of the machine.and where can I buy or order it from.
Sludik Aaa hi I did some research because I was just as interested as you were. the red thing that the guy is sitting on is called a PTO forecart and the John Deere baler seams to be a 338 square baler 👍
farmingwithhorses.com/hd-ground-drive-pto-forecarts/
maybe late answer but it is I&J Heavy Duty Ground Drive PTO Forecart,
check this farmingwithhorses.com/hd-ground-drive-pto-forecarts/
Muy buen video. Un saludo desde Torresandino.
Muy buen vídeo
Donde puedo adquirir este tipo de máquinas??
Saludos desde SLP México
If you take the time of doing some research, you'll find there's some studies (I think one was published from the University of Michigan) that prove how from the economy point of view the horse has an edge over tractors. Check out The Small Farmer's Journal back numbers. That's because horses PRODUCE (manure, foals, meet if you dare) while machines - growing more and more complicated - need costy maintenance, fuel, lubricants, spares, insurance, taxes even when they sleep in the barn.
P
Does this forecart have the option of a seat? Standing in place for long periods of time really hurts my back.
+Leneka Pilarski Yes I think they do
farmingwithhorses.com/hd-ground-drive-pto-forecarts/
they come with seats, though I've heard they're pretty uncomfy. This is likely a demonstration or early model.
TH-cam video by Avego - real-time ridesharing demo. They seem to be making some progress in Seattle. Tricky
though. Bosses need to be more flexible with work hours. If people had flexitime then the peak rush hour could be avoided and
everything could move more efficiently = less fuel consumption.
Horse droppings could be easily swept up with mechanical brush on tractor bucket now a days & carted back to fields. But mixing horses & cars would just cause congestion & increase fuel consumption
Ok keep going with the modern agriculture & construction equipment but maybe public car use could be switched to pony & trap ? Trouble with horses on roads is that they would slow down lorries, cause congestion and increase fuel consumption. So over all cancelling out any gains
Agree, I'm interested in buying a forecart. Details?
LAte reply so I don't know how usefult his is, but Farmingwithhorses.com is I and J's website that lists all the prices. its $6,600 for a heavy-duty forecart with 'the works' like brakes and such.
Beautiful. Pity I don't own four horses.
La maquinaria. Y. Tecnologia. Agropecuat
35HP baler driven by 4 horses...
hhhmmn, i think were getting ripped off! D:
Needs AutoSteer!
Yes the government will save us all from ourselves.
Well what about car sharing as a more realistic idea? If there was an internet based car sharing program everyone could type in their travel plans then the super clever program could plan optimum route and send it to your sat nav ? Maybe only 10 % of 250 million U.S cars would be used each day that way ? Trouble is would you trust the person you shared the journey with ? Potential for trouble there. Maybe better just to arrange with a friend ?
safty first for the rider??????????????????????????
erhh ... there's so much wrong with what you just said, that I can barely begin.
First off though, if we switched all away from mechanized farming, we wouldn't be able to produce enough food, and vast famines would be the result.
The reason is simple, a tractor doesn't eat food, but rather fuel, so all the food produced goes straight to human mouths. A horse on the other hand ...
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the technical excersize of creating a horsedrawn baler, but it's just a toy.
Moving away from machines for farming would open the door for more people to be involved in farming. Tractors don’t eat, they only use a limited resource that is diminishing in quantity. Horse eats grass that grows every year and can be increased through breeding. In 1915 there was estimated 20 million horses in the USA. Doing 99% of the farming. Today there is around 10 million. Half as many and yet they do what .001% of the farming. Saying we can use horses to farm today bc they would eat all that is farmed is ludacris.
@@justinallmond3855
There was about 100 million people in the US in 1915, today that number has TRIPLED!
You cannot produce enough food, using old school farming technology. Also, historically the less that are involved in farming, the more we can work on luxury good, art, government, education, health facilities and so on - So there's a good argument that you do not really want more people involved in farming.
As for tractors, those will become electrical soon enough, probably with a methane fuel cell, with methane harvested from pig and cow poop.
Thre's already many car sharing programs, but they seldom work out, because someone is running late, or their child is throwing a temper tantrum, or the car won't start, or they are snowed in.
I bet you much money that your boss won't care wether or not your car share buddy was running late because he stubbed his foot on the door.
Basically, there's too many variables and not enough patience to go around.
Yg
550rpm + or-
I would think that is how fast it would have to go for baling, but their website says the two options are 340/500 rpm. Technically under powered for baling, but obviously works.
i guess it runs on 4 hp!!
It gets worse, they require stables to stand around in during the winter, and fodder too - while doing nothing in return ... heck, can you imagine trying to park your horse during rush hour ?
There would be horse shit everywhere. XD
This is the way forward. We need to get the top politician to see this. I think it is time to ban motorcars & motor bikes and move forward to pony & trap or pony & Hansom cab or bicycles. We need to do this before the oil runs out and before we ruin the planet with global warming. Also switch to horse power would require grassland which could have clover in to help save the bees.
damn dem some loose bails... need to cranks em alittle tighter.. working the poor man to death in the back... alot of mouths to feed.. cheaper to have a 50hp tractor
WOW
I remember my father saying that he was the envy of his neighbors when he was baling. because he had one of the first tractors in the district with a 'live' PTO. Lumpy swaths would be a definite no no with this set up!
zajebiste to jest technika idzie do przodu