2nd Best Army in Ukraine? | Evolution of Tank Tactics in Ukraine

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 2.6K

  • @thetankmuseum
    @thetankmuseum  ปีที่แล้ว +358

    Let us know what you thought of this video in the comments below.

    • @user-hq2fy5cs1k
      @user-hq2fy5cs1k ปีที่แล้ว +23

      its good

    • @Silverj2k7
      @Silverj2k7 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      its great.

    • @phunkracy
      @phunkracy ปีที่แล้ว +21

      Airborne assault on hostomel actually succeeded thats my pet peeve with 1st minute of the video. When Russian main force arrived the VDV was still there still holding tge airport

    • @zaynevanday142
      @zaynevanday142 ปีที่แล้ว +45

      Pure NATO propaganda 😂😂😂

    • @zaynevanday142
      @zaynevanday142 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      @@phunkracy100% total success the VDV took and held that airport

  • @charlescaudell9493
    @charlescaudell9493 ปีที่แล้ว +441

    No surprise that Chris Copson's videos do so well. He can clearly and concisely explain a complex subject to a non specialist audience. Many thanks.

    • @maccarr9923
      @maccarr9923 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      I think you mean many Tanks

    • @AsmodeusT
      @AsmodeusT ปีที่แล้ว +9

      ​@@maccarr9923 bravo!

    • @daveyjones5702
      @daveyjones5702 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      and how do you verify any statements made?
      when almost everything we are told about what happens there is propaganda,
      and about as valid as a 3 dollar bill, how do you know any of this has any connection to reality whatsoever?

    • @MikeStubbsRace
      @MikeStubbsRace ปีที่แล้ว

      Absolutely! Couldn't agree more!

    • @petunized
      @petunized ปีที่แล้ว +6

      He is just telling what his audience like to hear. Just like any other entertainer.
      If he told you inconvenient truth, you'd unsubscribe, downvote and complain to youtube. And his channel will be cancelled out, just like any other inconvenient opinions in the west.

  • @melle9155
    @melle9155 ปีที่แล้ว +620

    Chris is a good story teller and really good at explaining things. Very pleasant to listen to!

    • @jansilver4253
      @jansilver4253 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That's true I just wanted to take a look but I can't stop it
      until it stops!))))

    • @trollking202
      @trollking202 ปีที่แล้ว

      Once upon a time 😅

    • @VunderGuy
      @VunderGuy ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Yes. Very good propagandist very good at steering clear of certain undeniably authentic docs that show the ultimate opposite of his ultimate purpose.

    • @buckmaster5552
      @buckmaster5552 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      He's good to listen to. Its just too bad his numbers are fictional

    • @tigertiger1699
      @tigertiger1699 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      He’s really great👍🙏🙏🙏

  • @1509Freeze
    @1509Freeze ปีที่แล้ว +1010

    I cant get over how the term "cope cage" has basically become the official designation for these constructs.

    • @ProvidenceNL
      @ProvidenceNL ปีที่แล้ว +119

      You could see his hesitation and the use of the qualifer ''colloquially'' because of that haha.

    • @MrZombiekiller23
      @MrZombiekiller23 ปีที่แล้ว +34

      its not, its just internet addicts

    • @iannordin5250
      @iannordin5250 ปีที่แล้ว +91

      I mean there really isn't another good name out there for them.

    • @brandonbailey9446
      @brandonbailey9446 ปีที่แล้ว +84

      It is hilarious watching these knowledgeable, dignified gentleman like him and the Chieftain discuss it.

    • @Shooter10m
      @Shooter10m ปีที่แล้ว +28

      Theyre trying to cope with the fact that the top down munitions are making their armor void and trying to deal with it. Unfortunately, most top down munitions are tandem and can still get through that space. Kinda funny that reddit has managed to name that though.

  • @gilanbarona9814
    @gilanbarona9814 ปีที่แล้ว +198

    When I was a junior officer, we never had military instructors this good. This was very insightful. I learned a lot. Thank you.

  • @Alexandr_Polyakov
    @Alexandr_Polyakov ปีที่แล้ว +34

    Hello, I'm from Irpin, Ukraine. thanks for the great analytics👍

    • @brinjoness3386
      @brinjoness3386 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Say hi to your friends and family.

    • @garryeis7276
      @garryeis7276 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@JoshStrickland-n8x Iripin is a city near Kyiv. The Russians were expelled from there in April 2022.

  • @user-hq2fy5cs1k
    @user-hq2fy5cs1k ปีที่แล้ว +747

    i love tanks

  • @DerUnglaublicheFrank
    @DerUnglaublicheFrank ปีที่แล้ว +196

    This is the first video I see from this channel and I have to say I am impressed. This is the gold standard I want from documentaries and similar shows. The production quality is great across the board, the story is interesting and good to follow, the visuals are a great benefit and it has no bloat or nonsense.

    • @Masada1911
      @Masada1911 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      They have a pretty big catalogue of videos for you to enjoy!

    • @DarkShroom
      @DarkShroom ปีที่แล้ว +10

      this is what you get when you have a presenter that both does the research and the talk... this is why i watch youtube and not tv

    • @michaela7759
      @michaela7759 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      100% AGREED

    • @DartXL
      @DartXL ปีที่แล้ว +3

      A low-quality study based on NAFO misinformation. But he could have analyzed what is available to a tank museum. For example, conclude that Soviet 9M117 "Bastion" missiles fired from T-55, T-62 or BMP-3 can hit even the latest Western tanks, including M1A2 Abrams, from ranges twice as long as their range, which means they remain out of range. One such missile may not destroy an Abrams and will be neutralized by active or explosive armor, but a second, third... a tenth is unlikely. Therefore, thousands of such missiles and their newer modifications are eagerly waiting for the Abrams to practice shooting at it.

    • @dylanwegener9682
      @dylanwegener9682 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      ​@@DartXL you are dented

  • @erloriel
    @erloriel ปีที่แล้ว +95

    As usual, Mr. Copson knocks it out of the park with his narration! What brilliant choice as a presenter.

  • @CrazyFikus
    @CrazyFikus ปีที่แล้ว +205

    9:10 - "we've recently seen some T-72s in Ukraine fitted with what's colloquially been called cope cages"
    I just love how cope cage has become accepted terminology.

    • @alexanderbarkman7832
      @alexanderbarkman7832 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      It's not, it's just kids with no military knowledge using it.

    • @Squee.1366
      @Squee.1366 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      @@alexanderbarkman7832
      So be a profie, name it correctly

    • @alexanderbarkman7832
      @alexanderbarkman7832 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Squee.1366
      Slat roof armour.

    • @Squee.1366
      @Squee.1366 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Slat armor, dry water, sour sugar... Cool!

    • @alexanderbarkman7832
      @alexanderbarkman7832 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Squee.1366
      Se my first comment.

  • @simonpotter7534
    @simonpotter7534 ปีที่แล้ว +88

    Its good to see that a museum is making itself relevant to modern events. The staff must have been a little surprised to find some of its exhibits running around a current day battlefields.

  • @Subcomandante73
    @Subcomandante73 ปีที่แล้ว +574

    Chris is doing a great job on these 'chats'.

    • @noahway13
      @noahway13 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Who is Chris?

    • @joshmerchant8737
      @joshmerchant8737 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      @@noahway13 the guy in the video talking

    • @jonnyc429
      @jonnyc429 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@joshmerchant8737 😂😂

    • @chanchito4401
      @chanchito4401 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@noahway13 The cameraman

    • @axelvetter
      @axelvetter ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Not all great presenters wear beards.

  • @lutherburgsvik6849
    @lutherburgsvik6849 ปีที่แล้ว +160

    Nice balance of focus on tactics and vehicles. I'm sure there would be equal interest in a similar video about the Ukrainian military and their changing tactics and vehicles over the past year. It could also provide an opportunity to link to some of your older videos on American, British and other NATO equipment currently being used by Ukraine.

  • @sixstringedthing
    @sixstringedthing ปีที่แล้ว +16

    I'm sure I've said it before but I'm going to say it again; I very much enjoy Mr Copson's presentations.
    Clear and concise, technical yet easily approachable, delivered in a confident and natural manner that indicates a high level of familiarity with the subject matter.
    Excellent stuff.

  • @alexanderweinrich7418
    @alexanderweinrich7418 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    I absolutely love the mention of cope cages. Great video!

    • @__beer__
      @__beer__ ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah I had to have a laugh at that haha

  • @JayeOFarrell
    @JayeOFarrell ปีที่แล้ว +22

    Absolutely phenomenal content, writing, production, and Chris has been an inspired edition to the presenting team. I've visited the Tank museum many times, and this year my friend from Canada is visiting and asked if I could take him to the museum as he enjoys the video content so much. Keep up the good work.

  • @steveyountz9184
    @steveyountz9184 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    Excellent as always, and the production value, which was very good, is getting
    even better.

  • @dougcoombes8497
    @dougcoombes8497 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    That was excellent, I hope there are more updates like this as the war progresses.

  • @occamraiser
    @occamraiser ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Thanks for another riveting video. I'm happy to say I'll be driving 330 miles down to Bovington in September specifically to visit the tank museum.

  • @alanfenick1103
    @alanfenick1103 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Your evaluation of the War in the Ukraine is insightful and gives more information of what each side is facing in equipment and tactics. I feel we need to concentrate on both the human and material costs! No one talks about the medical services to the wounded combatants and civilians. Every time a tank is destroyed three or more are killed is never spoken of just the fireworks display!

  • @carlgrubisich5717
    @carlgrubisich5717 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Great presentation, really hit the mark. Chris is an excellent addition to the tank museum. I hope to see more content of this sort in the future.

    • @MultiNike79
      @MultiNike79 ปีที่แล้ว

      Are all the comments here bots?

  • @lesliepaulkovacs6442
    @lesliepaulkovacs6442 ปีที่แล้ว +46

    Very nice evaluation of the last year. But I'd like to see the same thing done for the Ukrainian side, and we can then have a "Compare and Contrast" situation. Thanks again.

    • @gunnar6674
      @gunnar6674 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      The Ukrainian general staff wishes to keep their lessons learned in offensive operations close to the vest so far. They've shared some of the lessons learned in the defense with observers from RUSI, but they haven't wanted to share their experiences with offensive operations yet - at least in a non-classified setting.

    • @chrisdodson8118
      @chrisdodson8118 ปีที่แล้ว

      Forgive my simplistic answer, but I would say that the main difference is that Ukrainian tanks and troops are on the side of good, whereas those of RuSSia are inarguably on the side of evil! 🙂

    • @MultiNike79
      @MultiNike79 ปีที่แล้ว

      There is no "Ukrainian side". There is a US side. The Nazis are working for them.

    • @MultiNike79
      @MultiNike79 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@JoshStrickland-n8x What country are you in, if it's not a secret?

    • @MultiNike79
      @MultiNike79 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@JoshStrickland-n8x Russia?

  • @vespasian606
    @vespasian606 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Great balanced summary. I think your questions at the end apply equally to both parties.

  • @civicsilly
    @civicsilly ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Thank you for your video, I appreciate your knowledge and considerable effort. Very well done, and I look forward to all of your products.

  • @PurpleSnakeXIII
    @PurpleSnakeXIII ปีที่แล้ว +2

    An actually competent and informative flow of information with no to minimal political baggage and no taking sides! Incredibly high standard these days! Awesome

    • @kristoffer3000
      @kristoffer3000 ปีที่แล้ว

      You just didn't notice it was very biased.

    • @kristoffer3000
      @kristoffer3000 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@JoshStrickland-n8x Sure bud, you believing those numbers without a second thought just proves you're honestly not very intelligent. :)
      "Not biased" whilst all this does is paint Ukraine, who are losing quite badly in a positive light whilst doing quite the opposite for Russia.
      Not to mention that Ukraine are quite uh.. fond of their Nazis, not something I want to support, idk about you. :)

  • @zerksari
    @zerksari ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What a beautiful lecturer. Time to search him up and tuck in and listen in more.

  • @TheCrowsClaw
    @TheCrowsClaw ปีที่แล้ว +52

    That is solid research and delivery, just like with the episode on an RPG.(speaking as military RPG instructor) You, Sir, are becoming my favourite presenter on the Tank Museum YT channel.

    • @IronWarhorsesFun
      @IronWarhorsesFun ปีที่แล้ว +5

      The RPG video wasn’t pure anti Russian propaganda. This one is.

    • @Br1cht
      @Br1cht ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@IronWarhorsesFun yup, they’ve no shame.

    • @sirhayden5516
      @sirhayden5516 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@IronWarhorsesFun If this is propaganda, why are the russian forces doing so badly?

    • @Andrew-gd5jp
      @Andrew-gd5jp ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@sirhayden5516 propaganda isn’t necessarily false. To be effective, it should be true.

    • @jamesgornall5731
      @jamesgornall5731 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@sirhayden5516even if tanks are, the armed forces are doing well, tanks are a busted flush with atgm weapons, just as western tanks will be. This isnt a case of one piece of technology here, one there and VICTORY, its a complete shift

  • @tommihommi1
    @tommihommi1 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    incredible production value on this video! I especially appreciate the good audio.

  • @filibertkraxner305
    @filibertkraxner305 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Excellent video. Very nuanced analysis, illustrated on the museum's exhibits themselves. Well done.

  • @jamesfairless1949
    @jamesfairless1949 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Chris came to my school on Monday, keep up the good work mate

  • @ruiteixeira1594
    @ruiteixeira1594 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    One clue for the NAFO bots: civil casualties in Iraque :+ 1 000 000, UKR +- 8 000 (source ONU in 1 year)

  • @mirandahotspring4019
    @mirandahotspring4019 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Nice clear explanation of the war so far. Well thought out and spot on.

    • @kzsposeidon3121
      @kzsposeidon3121 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ​@Влад Осенін yeah sure

  • @russwoodward8251
    @russwoodward8251 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Thank you. I like Chris' analysis. Very good. Lots of great examples.

  • @mody2220
    @mody2220 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Just to clarify in 12.47min u need to take out that piece with 2 holes and put it around your ak47 or kmpk(polish/rusian heavy machine gun ) so your barrel is outside vehicle and that works quite well I know I was in polish army In 99-00 and we use those bmp these can do 70km-h on tank roads 😀

    • @edward9674
      @edward9674 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      What's it like to ride inside one? Like on an actual exercise if you ever got to be on one.

    • @mody2220
      @mody2220 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@edward9674 loud bouncy like hell hard to get in and out back door are heavy some times they fill them with sand for extra protection it was a fun to ride I'm my 20s but now no thanks

    • @Lexe-is5nv
      @Lexe-is5nv ปีที่แล้ว

      Ok if you have a screw driver, and can get it none before your hit

  • @johnbrooks1269
    @johnbrooks1269 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Mr. Copson excellent presentation. Your cadence, voice quality is most pleasing and overall you made the video very enjoyable. Many thanks to the T.M. for this video. Cheers!

  • @captainmeridian5589
    @captainmeridian5589 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks!

  • @cyclopath457
    @cyclopath457 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Yep I love listening to these. Informative and with a wealth of experience!

  • @scottroberts7875
    @scottroberts7875 ปีที่แล้ว +41

    Fact based, fascinating overview of the first year of this conflict. Mr Copson has a patient delivery and calm demeanour . Great combination, great talk. Well done all at the wonderful Tank Museum. ATVB2 all Scott Somerset

    • @themuckler8176
      @themuckler8176 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Fact based on Ukrainian propaganda?😂

    • @scottroberts7875
      @scottroberts7875 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@themuckler8176 hilarious.. Because would never lie to its people

    • @testingmysoup5678
      @testingmysoup5678 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Fact base even though the first fact he stated was wrong? First major armed conflict in Europe? 1999? Ukraine civil war?

    • @srvaughan2502
      @srvaughan2502 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ​@@testingmysoup5678 Maybe he considers that a minor conflict? Or he meant war between 2 countries? Cant serve off the full vid based on him meaning sth else than you.

    • @testingmysoup5678
      @testingmysoup5678 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@srvaughan2502 20 countries bombing another country to dust isn't a minor conflict, his willingness to say that just shows his willingness for other leaps of imagination

  • @alexarcher1601
    @alexarcher1601 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Thank you Chris for this excellent video.

  • @johnelliott7850
    @johnelliott7850 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Mr. Copson explains the pertinent issues so well and so clearly. Good video.

  • @seanitoism
    @seanitoism ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The Tank Museum went from top five, to relevant documentaries. Impressive content from a museum and fascinating to watch if you like tanks.

  • @robertstrong6798
    @robertstrong6798 ปีที่แล้ว +45

    I feel very guilty and sad to find this so interesting when so many are dying. But it is truly fascinating 🧐

    • @ChevySS1968
      @ChevySS1968 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Yeah, especially when this all could have been avoided if someone would have listened to Putin's many warnings.

    • @nozhki-busha
      @nozhki-busha ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ChevySS1968 Yeah, that worked out well for him didnt it? Now Putin is in a war he cannot hope to win and his land border with NATO has over doubled lol

    • @griechland
      @griechland ปีที่แล้ว +34

      ​@@ChevySS1968 Sod off vatnik.

    • @kilianortmann9979
      @kilianortmann9979 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      @@ChevySS1968 If only we had appeased Putler.

    • @nozhki-busha
      @nozhki-busha ปีที่แล้ว +20

      @@ChevySS1968 Сколько рублей вам платят за то, что вы говорите эту чушь?

  • @Huvpalto
    @Huvpalto ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Hearing such a professional use the term "cope cage" made me laugh. Its both funny, charming and a kind of recognision.

    • @worldoftancraft
      @worldoftancraft ปีที่แล้ว

      If those are Cope cages, then slat armour is cope armour

  • @knirobin
    @knirobin ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Exceellent video , Chris is really getting into his stride ....great work and keep it up !

  • @luisorozco188
    @luisorozco188 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Please keep these videos coming, as an old M60A1 MBT Crewman 3rd Armor Division Frieburg Germany just love these videos. 1977-79

  • @Mad_mountain05
    @Mad_mountain05 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Enjoyed this! Hope theTank Museum can produce more like this!

  • @brownie81
    @brownie81 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Great video, love the official use of the term 'cope cage'

  • @TTTT-oc4eb
    @TTTT-oc4eb ปีที่แล้ว +4

    As mentioned in the video, mission-based tactics only work if the junior officers and NCOs are highly trained and competent. If not, it's a recipe for utter chaos and disaster.
    This was probably THE major advantage for the Wehrmacht - an extremely competent officer and NCO corps - well trained in combined warfare and mission-based tactics. Even privates were expected to show personal initiative.

    • @novosib9017
      @novosib9017 ปีที่แล้ว

      they had experience from WW1. The teens of that time were Officers in 1942.

    • @TTTT-oc4eb
      @TTTT-oc4eb ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@novosib9017 Not the NCOs and junior officers. But yes, German WW2 tactics were very much a development from their 1918 tactics.

  • @erdenee1258
    @erdenee1258 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Loving these series. Regards from Mongolia.

  • @Largeportion1000
    @Largeportion1000 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Well Done, Looking like Chris enjoys a pint of bitter and a single malt as much as armoured vehicles and Fantastic content.

  • @ivanpticar8007
    @ivanpticar8007 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    Any official material on the whole "Soviets bellow the rank of Major weren't allowed maps"?
    These videos are very well done, and I'm always looking forward to more content

    • @SlashHarkenUltra
      @SlashHarkenUltra ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I know you meant 'below' but I'm now thinking of Russian soldiers screaming "MAJOR!!!"

    • @kristoffer3000
      @kristoffer3000 ปีที่แล้ว

      Most negative things said about the Soviet Union on this channel is just lies, it's such a shame that they feel the need to shovel on tons of propaganda.
      Notice that they don't do it for Nazi tanks, strange that..

    • @stephenwood6663
      @stephenwood6663 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Sounds to me like one of those myths that sometimes springs up to make one's rivals look bad. There's a famous photograph from 1942 of a Soviet lieutenant in a pilotka, urging his men forward with pistol raised; the man has a map case at his hip.

    • @jubuttib
      @jubuttib ปีที่แล้ว

      @@stephenwood6663 He's just carrying it for the major. =)

    • @worldoftancraft
      @worldoftancraft ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@jubuttiblêjtôha is carrying naps for mega mladšij lêjtênant

  • @joblo341
    @joblo341 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Cope cages were seen from the start of the war. They were often "unofficial" additions by the crew hoping to protect from top attack missiles. But they were ineffective for that.
    On the other hand, as the war progressed, and drones dropping "presents" into open hatches the idea of cope cages on top started to make sense.
    So, the concept of "cope cages" has evolved during the arc of the war. From a joke to useful. But useful for a totally different threat than envisioned at the start of the war. At the start they were intended to deflect very old anti-tank weapons that were not being used, and in theory against modern weapons that the cages were totally inappropriate for. Now, a year later they can use cages to deflect grenades/bombs dropped from drones into open hatches and to protect from kamikaze drones trying to fly into those hatches too.

  • @hultaelit
    @hultaelit ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Were the tactics used early on really the same as soviet WW2 tactics?
    Correct me if I'm wrong or feel free to elaborate, but In WW2, they'd have multiple waves, each with corresponding support elements in the air and on track, with the objective of pushing forward until they were at the edge of stalling, and then, very importantly, transition into creating and holding a beachhead for the next group that was just behind. Thus always preparing the way for the continued assault of fresh and supplied units.
    I might be wrong, but to me the tactics used in Feb 22 seemed to have degenerated rather than carried over from WW2, as when the front units were halted there was no second fresh wave just behind them to carry on the attack with fresh supplies

    • @phunkracy
      @phunkracy ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Russians prepared for 2014 ukrainian army while ukrainians prepared for 2023 russian army. If ukrainians would fight anything like they did in 2014 the 3 day campaign meme would actually happen

    • @z_actual
      @z_actual ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Russia ddint put nearly enough of their best resources into it, there were something 40,000 men put in and around Kiev.
      No one is asking where is the real Russian army

    • @Carbidestruck
      @Carbidestruck ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@z_actual The professional russian army is currently serving a special fertilization operation in the Ukrainian soil.
      The 1st guards tank army, 155th naval and VDV weren’t the real russian army?

    • @IronWarhorsesFun
      @IronWarhorsesFun ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@Carbidestruck meanwhile thousands upon thousands of Ukraine soldiers and NATO mercs are now dead or captured in Russian controlled Bakhmut. Keep laughing.

    • @thysonsacclaim
      @thysonsacclaim ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@IronWarhorsesFun Found the vatnik.

  • @EvanRivas-i3y
    @EvanRivas-i3y ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This TH-cam chanel is incredible🎉

  • @dmitryyeronov62
    @dmitryyeronov62 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It's already August. And I read the Western press, in which they write that the Ukrainian counteroffensive has choked without taking a single strategic position. The purpose of this counteroffensive was to cut off the land corridor to the Crimea. As we see today, this goal has not been achieved. It is obvious that the Russian command has been preparing defensive structures and mining fields all winter.

  • @2ndkombat
    @2ndkombat ปีที่แล้ว +12

    i believe 1st major conflict in Europe after 1945 was the Yugoslavia in 90s.

    • @kanestalin7246
      @kanestalin7246 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      They conviently forget that

    • @nils9853
      @nils9853 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yeah but these are no white people, so that doesn't count. That's also why we are much more concerned about Ukraine rather then Syria.

    • @DarkShroom
      @DarkShroom ปีที่แล้ว +1

      oh yes let's split hairs... okay i will use wikipedia for this:
      1944-1956 Guerrilla war in the Baltic states
      1945-1949 Greek Civil War
      1946-1948 Corfu Channel incident
      1947-1962 Romanian anti-communist resistance movement
      1953 Uprising in East Germany
      .....zzzz.....zzzz.....
      i imagine they are all pretty "major" for those involved....keyboard warriors ready!... myself i'm gonna go for the 1st cod war

    • @nils9853
      @nils9853 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@DarkShroom you should use wiki to understand the difference between a civil war or a tried coup d'etat and a war between two nations. And Yugoslavia went on for many years and featured organized genocides. So I guess mentioning this is not splitting hairs...

    • @p_serdiuk
      @p_serdiuk ปีที่แล้ว

      Armoured conflict. Yugoslavia was mostly asymmetric warfare.

  • @DJJAW11
    @DJJAW11 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    ... Yet another great vid!. This even applies to game's!. As in infantry support for armour (only needs a few) armour support infantry,or both can indeed suffer greatly,from determined anti-tank infantry,or Indeed armour targeting infantry!.

  • @chriscookesuffolk
    @chriscookesuffolk ปีที่แล้ว

    In my view the best video on the conflict so far. Superb work.

  • @Asymmetrical-Saggin
    @Asymmetrical-Saggin ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I could listen to Chris all day to be honest. But as an American i can say i enjoy listening to most British talk lol.

  • @Martinlegend
    @Martinlegend ปีที่แล้ว +4

    12:46 - thats totally wrong - you take out the inlay of the port and clamp it over the barrel and the upper handguard behind the gas port and then you put it back inside - so its totally seald from ABC Weapons

    • @legbreaker2762
      @legbreaker2762 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Exactly. It's as if they're trying to get it all wrong.

    • @Martinlegend
      @Martinlegend ปีที่แล้ว

      @@legbreaker2762 oh come on - the Video is very good but only this one scene isnt

    • @legbreaker2762
      @legbreaker2762 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Martinlegend No, there are a number of inaccuracies and outright lies in it all painting the Russians in a bad light. It's propaganda.

  • @o5m67
    @o5m67 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    During WW2 already, the RA tank units used bedframes round the turret to protect against panzerfausts.

    • @nopls1762
      @nopls1762 ปีที่แล้ว

      Soviet*

    • @o5m67
      @o5m67 ปีที่แล้ว

      RA = Red Army

    • @worldoftancraft
      @worldoftancraft ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ​@@nopls1762*Sovêt, mister I luv Frentch veri mutch
      ** Red army. Sovêtskaâ Armiâ is the creature of February 1946.

  • @kandyvl
    @kandyvl ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Thanks for covering this important part of war history. Knowledge is a power. And knowing your enemy is hard but valueable lesson. Greetings from Ukraine!

  • @masteryap3169
    @masteryap3169 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent analysis and presentation. Best I've seen on TH-cam!

  • @free_at_last8141
    @free_at_last8141 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    The narrator saying "cope cages" caught me off-guard and was very enjoyable. Like hearing Leonard Nimoy say "get good scrub."

  • @TotalRookie_LV
    @TotalRookie_LV ปีที่แล้ว +78

    It's hard to wrap your head around just how much smaller T-72 is, until you see a picture of one next to a "Challenger" or "Abrams". It almost looks like tanks of Western designs can kill T-72 tanks simply by driving over them and crushing with tracks.

    • @MrTangolizard
      @MrTangolizard ปีที่แล้ว +59

      @DolphinsWIthIgloos well the Russians do little tank with no infantry

    • @v4skunk739
      @v4skunk739 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      @DolphinsWIthIgloos It's a myth. A small tank has zero benefits. A thermal will still spot it 4 miles away.

    • @bob_the_bomb4508
      @bob_the_bomb4508 ปีที่แล้ว +33

      @@v4skunk739 it’s easier to get a smaller tank into a protected hull-down position. It also needs lighter bridging equipment, lighter recovery equipment, and narrower mine-breaching lanes. All other things being equal, it will probably require less fuel as there’s less mass to move about.

    • @murphy7801
      @murphy7801 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      ​@@bob_the_bomb4508 sure this is what recon / light tanks are for things like an amx 10 rc. You still need a main battle tank to come back the up when you hit your opponent.

    • @KaizokuSencho
      @KaizokuSencho ปีที่แล้ว

      @@v4skunk739 But thermals are western degenerate technology! The vodka infused glare of superior russian conscripts are clearly better!

  • @c.j.zographos3713
    @c.j.zographos3713 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Nice recap and analysis of the year of fighting in the Ukraine.

  • @luciuslawrence4068
    @luciuslawrence4068 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love it Chris when you say "sort them out" it's the most pleasant way of meaning "seek and destroy ".
    The British are perfect.

  • @LiPingWai-go1iw
    @LiPingWai-go1iw ปีที่แล้ว

    謝謝!

  • @alekzandah360
    @alekzandah360 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    The fact that “cope cage” has made its way to a professional’s mouth is incredible

  • @ChartingCharlie
    @ChartingCharlie ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Are people allowed to visit The Tank Museum? I would make a trip out of it

    • @baronvonlimbourgh1716
      @baronvonlimbourgh1716 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Ofcourse. They also have events like tank fest. Highly recomended.
      Tiger day is also a good day to visit.

    • @jamesgornall5731
      @jamesgornall5731 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Its a very, very good day out. I drove 300 miles to get there and it was well worth it

  • @Tomartyr
    @Tomartyr ปีที่แล้ว +7

    9:14 It's unlikely that they saw drone-drops and Javelins in their crystal ball and much much more likely they were preparing to fight the last war, as military planners love to do.
    These are actually probably meant to protect from RPG-7 attacks from rooftops as seen in the siege of Grozny.

    • @knoll9812
      @knoll9812 ปีที่แล้ว

      I agree the soviets are designed to beat an improved Wehrmacht from Ww3.
      They are behind the evolution of war.

  • @MadBrit26
    @MadBrit26 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Just wanted to say finally visited the Tank Museum for Tiger day - can't recommend highly enough!

  • @frankbodenschatz173
    @frankbodenschatz173 ปีที่แล้ว

    Chris has been doing an excellent job commenting on these chats! Keep it up chaps!

  • @isaacwest
    @isaacwest ปีที่แล้ว +5

    HE SAID IT!
    HE CALLED 'EM WHAT THEY ARE HAHA.
    9:14 what a hero.

  • @kippamip
    @kippamip ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I really hope somewhere in the British army there's a boffin somewhere coming up with an anti drone capability for tanks. Something that can detect them and take them down. Be it an automated 50 cal hooked up to a radar or something along those lines.

    • @paulmanson253
      @paulmanson253 ปีที่แล้ว

      I would think something of smaller calibre firing a lot faster than a 50 cal would be providing a swarm of bullets,one of which is all that is needed.
      Small accurate radar. Yeah,I think you might be on to something.

    • @adoggone5429
      @adoggone5429 ปีที่แล้ว

      In the New panther they got drones in the Tank, also to destroy Other drones.

    • @Brent-jj6qi
      @Brent-jj6qi ปีที่แล้ว

      @@paulmanson253 I suspect 12 gauge might be the solution, with buck or birdshot

    • @p_serdiuk
      @p_serdiuk ปีที่แล้ว

      Something like the Trophy active protection system uses shotguns to shoot down incoming missiles and there is no reason for it to not be able to shoot down drones as well.

    • @kippamip
      @kippamip ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@p_serdiuk drones sit too high for trophy.
      A system is needed to detect them way before they get near to the general vicinity of the tank so they can be eliminated before they get a chance to drop a mortar, or take away the ability to keep them spotted for artillery etc.

  • @807800
    @807800 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Would be interesting to see how next gen MBT would look like with the massive proliferation of surveillance and armed drone.

    • @B.D.E.
      @B.D.E. ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Probably just means top mounted ERA, and a greater emphasis on short range AA supporting tamk formations, with inexpensive munitions for taking out drone swarms without wasting very expensive air defence missiles. Also means more EW for tank formations. Those latter two things don't/shouldn't have to be incorporated into the MBT itself.

    • @Brent-jj6qi
      @Brent-jj6qi ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I actually unironically expect to see tanks fitted with belt fed shotguns, because I’d bet most drones that are the size of a person or smaller will not enjoy buckshot

    • @rolyantrauts2304
      @rolyantrauts2304 ปีที่แล้ว

      MBT is dead its too slow and cumbersome as look at the US Marines and there Future Lift program of a modern ridiculously mobile reaction force, they have scrapped the notion of the MBT as the Abrams is no longer part of the equation and not following front line troops any more.

    • @p_serdiuk
      @p_serdiuk ปีที่แล้ว

      The Abrams-X has a surveillance drone uplink and can launch Switchblade kamikaze drones IIRC. Having your own drones provides a massive benefit to a tank, and even more if tanks in a platoon data-link their video feeds together.

    • @rolyantrauts2304
      @rolyantrauts2304 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@p_serdiuk that a Abrams-X does launch Switchblade kamikaze drones is an indication to how the MBT is losing significance on the battlefield (does it fire it gun nope a Switchblade).
      You don't need a $5m tank to launch a Switchblade where drone guided indirect fire is hitting out to 30-90km

  • @10secondsrule
    @10secondsrule ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Amazingly explained and very informative topic. Thank you for making this film!

  • @Skreezilla
    @Skreezilla ปีที่แล้ว

    been nice to see Chris get so much more comfy in front of the camera! good work :)

  • @wj5611
    @wj5611 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Can you guys cover the armored engagement that occurred in Africa between the Russian T-72 (I believe) and the Chinese ZTZ-96 please? I honestly found the results of that skirmish surprising and really interesting.

    • @kurousagi8155
      @kurousagi8155 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      When did that happen?

    • @wj5611
      @wj5611 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@kurousagi8155 a few years ago I think. Red Effect has a video covering the results of the engagement

    • @kurousagi8155
      @kurousagi8155 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@wj5611 thanks, I found it

  • @TheVarskvlavtbichuna
    @TheVarskvlavtbichuna ปีที่แล้ว +7

    It was a terrific show, I always enjoy watching British analysis. Victory to Ukraine and God save his Majesty's Kingdom and my small country Georgia ✌

    • @OlenaUkrainian
      @OlenaUkrainian ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Mr.Zhivago, thank you very much! Glory to Georgia! Glory to Ukraine! Glory to all our Heroes, who are fighting for justice against ruzzian imperialistic schizofascism!
      Georgia is a very beautiful country with very nice, hospitable people! I dream to visit it one day!
      Greetings from Ukraine! Glory to Heroes!

    • @TheVarskvlavtbichuna
      @TheVarskvlavtbichuna ปีที่แล้ว

      @@OlenaUkrainian Thanks to Ukrainian 🇺🇦 heroes! They’re fighting for our fredom too. Always welcome to sunny 🌞 Saqartvelo😊

  • @KurtBoulter
    @KurtBoulter ปีที่แล้ว +5

    This is a rhetorical overview of the conflict, when Russia was NOT invading Ukraine, to take over the entire nation, but entered the Donbass and Lugansk regions, as the request of the now Russian citizens after the free election to rejoin Russia. So, there has been no stall, no halt to invasion, only a completion of the original task, of taking back land that is now considered to be Russia and the defence of the people of that territory!
    The BMP 1 is NOT used by the Russians anymore, ONLY the outdated, Soviet Era purchased Ukraine army still use the matchbox.

    • @chaosagent_0106
      @chaosagent_0106 ปีที่แล้ว

      ...did you forget the one objective the Russians give? Take Kiev? Didn't they specifically said that and gone in a sprint to circle the city hoping to force a surrender immediately? Also, the Russians invaded, this is war. No debate about it. It's like the US invading Afghanistan. No excuses.
      Also, the Russians still uses the BMP1, because the armor loses ranging in the thousands force them so.

  • @SvenTheSveed
    @SvenTheSveed ปีที่แล้ว

    An excellent production with concise and enlightening analysis and content.

  • @davidrobinson7112
    @davidrobinson7112 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great explanation makes things clearer and issues understandable thank you. Keep up the good work.

  • @Lammedreng
    @Lammedreng ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Watching a tank expert use the term “cope cage” brings me immense joy

  • @CalmTheWolfProd
    @CalmTheWolfProd ปีที่แล้ว +4

    For most part I liked the video, albeit I found it unobjective and clearly political as pro-Ukrainian (for instance context, like the drone destroying the M777 while mentioning ISTAR which is mainly a NATO concept and other goodies that less knowledgeable would notice. I saw someone in the comments mention the inaccuracy of the Russian Gostomel raid). Overall I think the whole actual conflict is much more complicated than was depicted in this video.
    This is a very interesting war, as it is fought with both warring sides wielding close-to-equal quality regarding equipment. This video leaves out the fact the NATO has been equipping the Ukrainan army ever since it aided the illegal NATO/EU backed maidan-coup back in 2014. That created a modern Ukrainian army, armed to the teeth, and well dug in all along the eastern Donbass front against the Russian backed militias, them in turn fighting for their freedom and to be honest fighting against the illegal government installed by NATO, cause Yanukovich was de-facto fairly elected in a democratic vote. That puts the "obvious" conclusion in the end, about being "right" in obvious question. The current government was not elected but installed by NATO and that is not a fairy tale, but a fact.
    The Ukrainian army, being pumped full of NATO weapons, equipment and training on those systems for 8 years, did make for a close to equal adversary in terms of quality and quantity of armor, artillery, air-defence and all other points of leverage. And in some regards even giving an edge such as gaining access of more advanced surveillance and reconnaissance (Starlink, US Drones, AWACS and TB2s etc). This videos portrays the Russians as being quite incompetent, but I would argue to the contrary for one obvious reason: Most of that equipment and soldiers that NATO supplied and trained has been destroyed and Ukraine is clearly loosing the war. The biggest blunder of this video is without a question failing to mention that NATO, Ukraine and EU had grandiosely miscalculated Russia's production capabilities contra its own production capabilities. NATO and the US specifically in most cases, has waged illegal wars (yes against the UN charter) several times against lesser countries with smaller armies or asymmetric wars against insurgent militias for decades. Therefor production of weapon-systems and ammunition has been streamlined to evermore expensive and sometimes hyped up systems with inefficient battlefield qualities and low-production output abilities for these systems. And NATO, EU and Ukraine are therefor both depleting the stocks in an exponential way, struggling with production demands and unable to ramp up production or supply the Ukrainian army, at the levels it requires to conduct this one-on-one conflict with a modern and equal army.
    Recently leaked documents show this is basically the 3rd complete NATO-army that Russia will destroy (1st being the one Ukraine had when Russia decided to intervene in the civil-war bloodbath with the bulk being destroyed to stop Russia's incursion in the North and the losses of Popasnaya, Severdonetsk, Lisichansk and Mariopul, the 2nd army destroyed would be the one that was mostly exhausted and lost during the Ukrainian Kherson and Kharkiv offensives, and finally the 3rd whole army, being the hodge podge army, created to hold the line and give a shot on the last possibility to launch an offensive, but being woefully depleted and also exhausted as we speak, meaning in the clear process of being destroyed as well. The upcoming spring/summer offensive of the Ukrainians will be the last nail in the coffin for this one).
    I would argue that the Russian army has had its fair share of tactical and strategic mishaps and blunders along the way, but it has clearly also performed outstandingly in some aspects and this video does not do justice for their overall performance. Ability to adapt, to streamline the work of tactics, strategy, logistics etc effectively in the BTG-formations, to show flexibility in working with a shifting style of warfare, from blitz style in the initial days, when the necessity to deal a heavy blow and draw the main Ukrainan army away from Donbass to relieve the pressure, to stopping heavy offensives against thin lines with minimal manpower, to the attritional style of warfare now depleting the Ukrainian stocks of trained man-power, artillery, air defence, ammo, tanks and planes, losses of which cannot be easily replaced, while conserving most of their own manpower (most of the mobilized Russian reserve army raised late last year, has NOT been committed to the fighting as yet and does not consist of conscripts but trained reservists, contrary to your statements, albeit I agree that the convicted assault formations of the Wagner must have taken huge losses storming Bakhmut).
    The absence of context regarding some topics like mentioning that the Russian air force has become more active again in the later stages of the war, but failing to explain why (being that the air defense of Ukraine, which certainly was formidable at the start of the intervention, has been either destroyed or depleted through the drone and missiles offensive against the Ukrainian civilian infrastructure, like the power grid and waterpipelines) is also something critical if you would like to inform the viewers better.
    I've followed many of your videos for several years, for I'm very interested in all things war and tanks and their use specifically. So I would love for you to continue your work and wish you luck with ongoing work. But if I as a consumer of your videos can lend you some words of advice or feedback, I would really like to see more context if you are taking the path of being political. Either you could state openly that you have a pro-Ukrainian/pro-NATO or you do an objective video and stay as close to truth as possible. In my opinion I think the latter would benefit you most since the world consists of a population far larger than the mainstream population of just EU and NATO countries or their narratives or interests. Narratives always lose against truth and truth always has a natural ability to surface in the end, so truth is always more important to seek if one wants to be taken seriously or be judged as just another propagandist channel.
    That said, no side or country is ever better than any other, things are just different and effort should be focused on pointing out those differences and how they interact with each other, and that requires an extensive work doing research.
    Staying loyal to truth should always be more important than parroting propaganda, skewing truth or blatantly lying for not doing your research well. There is more value in being truthful than making believe.
    I hope you consider this as constructive comments and see more effort being put into your productions when it comes to research in the next video.
    All the best! =)

  • @gershonpollatschek6048
    @gershonpollatschek6048 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Oh wow so Yugoslavia didn't happen?

  • @mark12358
    @mark12358 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What a deep analysis. Facts. Explained. Well done!

  • @hiltonian_1260
    @hiltonian_1260 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I like how Mr Copson deals with armor as just one piece of technology embedded in a structure of strategy, operations, and tactics. Many of the failures of Russian armor seem to come from that armor being treated as a stand-alone force.

  • @DarkestVampire92
    @DarkestVampire92 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    After all this time, nearly a year and a half into this war, there are still people that try to tell you that the Autoloader's magazine is the cause of turret pops, not the russian habit of cramming more ammunition into the tank than the magazine can hold.

  • @bartomiejgos6493
    @bartomiejgos6493 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    1:59 "...it almost succeeded.."
    As one wise man said: "Almost makes a huge difference"

  • @JamesLaserpimpWalsh
    @JamesLaserpimpWalsh ปีที่แล้ว +3

    HEAT shaped charge warheads have been around for the best part of a century in one form or another. The only "new" threat is drones and precision artillery. Tanks are still mainly used against enemy fighting positions and tanks can still roll up ,fire and reverse back before a missile can get to it. The tank hasn't become obsolete. It's just the Russians are crap at using them properly. Cheers for the vid. See you at the end of June for Tankfest. Fingers crossed for good weather.

  • @waynemayo1661
    @waynemayo1661 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another EXCELLENT video. The explanations of modern warfare--tactics, equipment, etc., were clear, and, as far as I can tell, factual.
    Keep up the good work!

  • @gcl_brb
    @gcl_brb ปีที่แล้ว

    Great production! Congrats!

  • @stevedunn5546
    @stevedunn5546 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    A very interesting video thanks. I have often wondered about the lack of air support from the Russian side and would be interested to know the reasons why?

    • @JohnHughesChampigny
      @JohnHughesChampigny ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Because the Russians failed to destroy Ukranian anti-air missiles in the beginning of the campaign. Any Russian air support risks being blown out of the sky by S300's or Buks if it's high, or by Stingers or other Manpads if it's low.

    • @stevedunn5546
      @stevedunn5546 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@JohnHughesChampigny So do these multi million dollar aircraft not have any defence against these weapons?

    • @VVV85650
      @VVV85650 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@stevedunn5546 Ukraine has a Soviet-style layered air defense, obviously this does not allow aviation to work.

    • @JohnHughesChampigny
      @JohnHughesChampigny ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@stevedunn5546 Not really. They can shoot flares in an attempt to blind IR seakers on Manpads, but that's useless against S300's or Buk, or non-IR manpads. The American way of doing it is to first destroy the enemy air defences with SEAD "Wild Weasel" aircraft. The Russians seem to have made a half-hearted attempt at this at the beginning but failed because the Ukranians moved most of their air-defense missiles just before the invasion started.

    • @pilotmanpaul
      @pilotmanpaul ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Majority of the cruise missiles are fired from the VKS. Last month, Shoigu has also allowed Russian aircraft to fly deep into Ukrainian territory hence the latest videos of Russian aircraft dropping FAB 15000 and 5000s in Bakhmut and the recent use of "Glided Bombs".
      Some say this is due to the degration of the AFU's Anti air capabilities which does coincide with the leaked Pentagon documents showing that Ukraine only has a month left of munition for its S-300s and BUKs. While its IRIS-Ts and NATO system has enough till May.

  • @desmcharris
    @desmcharris ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The best and most comprehensive explanation of combat in the Ukraine conflict yet! Thank you Chris for sharing your knowledge and insights into this tragedy. It’s not glorifying, its simple and clear , and informative. Your experience and humanity speaks for its self. Thank you to you again Chris and to the wonderful Tank Museum.

  • @bami2
    @bami2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    9:13 the term "copecage" is now mainstream, this just blows my mind.
    next you're going to tell me there is a supply of copium gas on board for the crew to cope with all the bad decisions made by command.

  • @squishy_baby
    @squishy_baby ปีที่แล้ว

    love how competent this gentleman is. this is a very interesting video.

  • @paullanham1014
    @paullanham1014 ปีที่แล้ว

    The videos have always been outstanding, but somehow you’ve managed to turn it up another notch

  • @qba4455
    @qba4455 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Like always, excellent, thank you. I wish Ukraininas well.

  • @stanleymax4388
    @stanleymax4388 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Russia is fighting a proxy war with NATO not with The Ukraine. If the U.S hadn't sent the Ukraine over 100 billion in military aid this war would have been over long ago. Any questions?

    • @mikkelhansen5326
      @mikkelhansen5326 ปีที่แล้ว

      Russia can't even win against M113s and Leopards from the 1980s 😂😂
      How were we ever scared of them, they are pathetic!
      Imagine what modern leopards and F35 would do to their pathetic army, they can't even beat the poorest country in Europe! 🤣🤣