Seems like the Alliance ships are the tool of the gankers/greifers now. I know Wenturborne was helping out here, but the areas around Deciat are rife with them
Tobias Weisserth yeah the consequences need to be a lot stronger. A huge non payable bounty, like 50 million and you end up on Galnet’s most wanted lol. The legitimate pvp guys would have something to do, the rest of us would have some of the pressure taken off and the gankers would have a sense of immersion lol. Everyone wins.
I was in a hauler with 0 weapons on it. I got killed and recieved several fines and a bounty...for being attacked...with no weapons. Since then I have been playing solo.
I remember when I first started playing Elite, still in a Sidewinder just trying to figure out a way to make credits and I limped out of the starter system only to get ganked by a waiting CMDR. Never flew in open after that.
I do enjoy playing in open, but when I'm "working" and trying to make money, I play in either solo or private group. I'm a single parent and work a lot of hours, so when I do play elite, I want to make progress. Not spend hours doing something only to have the time be essentially wasted because other players felt like getting a laugh.
I think playing in solo is bad, because is like cheating there’s People who eant to role as pirate like me, npc doesnt work well and they dont even carry mineral ... i would remove solo play
@@pietroagrip3807 Problem here is "roleplay". I'm all for roleplay, you can roleplay the hell out of the game if you want. What is NOT fine is to force your personal roleplay's consequences on people who are not into your roleplay. People who paid real money to explore the game's universe. This is your own roleplay remember. If I play the game, it will not be to serve you. By all means, gather all the roleplayers and roleplay away but do not force others to play along.
@@pietroagrip3807 alright well i play elite to roleplay as a noncombatant scientist exploring the depths of space. i really do not want the fiction this game provides to me being ruined by people who have nothing better to do than roleplay as senseless murderers
@@emerylafleur i m talking about pirating not about terrorism 🙄, and anyway people talks about simulator game. So everyone can role wich person they like to role in space, so if ED let the opportunity to do this why you all should ruin this playing in solo? And if you are a non combat scientist just evade...
I play open less after being ganked - I just finished a 500 jump run from SagA and got interdicted on an approach to Farseer inc. No way was I going to lose all that exploration data so I went cheap and logged out. I still play open when I've less to lose beyond rebuy.
Here's an interesting take: Despite EVE online being more "hardcore" than elite, I think ganking is a much *better* mechanic in EVE. There are two things in EVE that separate it from Elite. 1: No rebuys (Well, there's insurance, but that hardly covers the actual value of a fitted ship.) 2: CONCORD. There is no running or fighting them, you incur their wrath, you will get vaporized, thus with 1 and 2 together, any ship you use for ganking for all intents and purposes be a *total loss* (if done in highsec anyways). This changes the dynamic of ganking considerably for EVE, as the ganker has to consider what they are willing to throw away (or risk outside of highsec) for their target, and always run the risk of losing their ship *and* getting nothing for their troubles I think this a beautiful system as it encourages ganking to happen, but subtly deincentivizes (without hard restricting) the seal-clubbing match-ups that often happen in elite. Inexperienced/new players don't make the kind of money that would make them appealing targets in the first place, and EVE's system also discourages someone from taking the best blinged out high-tier ship they have and smashing everyone else, as that's more for them to lose. And a madman picking those match ups anyways for trolling is going to be doing it at their own expense. Risk/reward is a two way street, and I don't think elite quite reflects that as an attacker risks little if anything on their part.
This reminds me of that time in EvE when I just started exploring and scanning for sites to get some money. Eventually my greed made me go to low sec to find more valuable sites. The first few runs went ok and made quite a bit of cash and I was really thinking "oh this is easy, nobody cares". The next day however when I almost made it back to safe space with my treasure, I made a jump and suddenly there was this weird glowing thing around my ship.... next thing I know I was blown up... This was actually a really thrilling experience and totally my own fault for just yolo-ing it.... So I started to train into cloacking etc..., made an effort to study the map for recorded player kills to trying to avoid active systems.... to see how I could do better in the future. Had this not happened to me the game wouldnt be as fun to be honest... The danger WAS real and I had to do something about it.......
someone tried to gank me in eve, but they didnt notice that we were in a .4 sec system. they got blown up by concord then sent me a message saying sorry for trying to kill me and that they only went for people who risked going in lowsec systems, just to add a bit more risk to the game for those who want it.
I think i have underestimated EVE That is so fucking brilliant, the ganking still occurs but the original offender gets punished more for doing it and more if they're using a high-tier build, making it more fair, I love that
This was actually a better game at launch in this regard. When interdicted, If you reacted well, you could fight off most attackers long enough to jump out, provided your ship was sensibly equipped and you chose quickly to run. With the advent of wings and engineers there's often no chance because it's basically an instakill. That coupled with an increasingly bad rubber-banding and hacking problem.... It's not a pretty picture if you're a fan of open.
As a new player I feel constantly agitated by ganking, has never happened, but I still have heard mostly bad things about the community. Good thing I usually have Elite rank friends on my Wing accross the galaxy as an intimidation mechanic, but yeah.
I would have a hard time not taking it personally if I got ganked in my undefended long range explorer just as I got back from an 18 month tour in the black. That's billions in credits lost and hundreds to thousands of hours of lonely jumping and scanning all blown up by an a-hole coward who wouldn't even try me in my FDL, regardless of his motive. It's not quite as bad to get jumped in you mining ship after hours of core drilling but it still kinda sucks. Still a lot of money lost. Less time though. And mining ships are usually sturdier than explorers.
yeah, I recently went on a ten thousand lightyear trip with a sub 20 LY jump range, and when I got to a place to sell the data, I was incredibly worried I was going to get destroyed by someone.
@@cgcgames1 Some people don't want to hide in solo but also want to live in the galaxy in peace without being shoehorned into one "right" style of play. That being combat pilot of course. Open non combatants recognize that it's a risk, hence the concern. But, as in real life, bad behavior ought to have a robust crime and punishment deterrence. It shouldn't be banable nor should it be made impossible. But at the same time their should be penalties and bounties tied to the value destroyed, so the ganker has a risk to consider, consequences. People kill and rob in real life but most people mind their own business so most people have no fear of leaving their homes.
Kevin Barbour then why play in open?? how many people do you run into while out exploring?? so again, why play in open?? especially when you can jump back and forth with impunity! i just started this game after playing eve for many years, don't play eve because you definitely won't be able to handle how harsh that world is!
I'm sorry... In the middle of the video when your on the planet on the SRV, did that guy shoot and destroy your ship and then start firing at you, and when you fire one shot in self defense you get a bounty? WTF?
It might be because they were allied with that super power in the system and Ed is dumb and if your not allied they can attack you without getting a bounty
I don’t pvp, in fact I only have 5% toward the first combat rank. So when I say, there isn’t a ganking problem there isn’t. Why? Simple, there’s a thing called solo. You play in open, you know the risks. “But I want to play with friends” play in a group session. It’s really simple to be honest.
Arguably though, the insurance system in this game is much more fair, especially when you compare it to a similar space MMO, EVE Online. Here, you lose your ship, and you can rebuy the ship and its entirety for the fraction of the cost. I don't know if that covers engineering and other tailored upgrades though as I'm not quite that far. But losing a ship in ED hurts far less.
Got killed by a ganker at the start when I had only a type-6.. He was waiting at a planetary station (the engineer FSD one) to kill me as I took off. I was pretty frustrated but I took it like a man and didn't log off or anything. After my death, I looked on wiki and forum to see if doing such actions against another player that has no bounty on would have repercussion on him. The answer is, no repercussion.. (he gets wanted for like an hour or so, big deal). Like you said in your definition of ganker, it was pretty cheap but if the repercussion would have been proportionate... Like getting wanted in this controlled sector forever until he gets destroyed, then I would be "hey, fair enough.. it's part of the game, he will have a bounty on his head until he gets killed". But no, he just killed a noob that was pretty poor in credit to begin with and without any consequence... The result is, since then, I only play solo... Which is the same for a lot of players and in final hurting the gaming experience for everyone. I blame the player as well as dev for this, they should implement more punishing consequences if you attack another player for no reason.
@@luckybrand6762 Maybe I wasn't clear enough, so I'll explain my point further to you and everyone else reading it. I didn't complain at the guy or disconnected, I get that in PvP, you gonna encounter hostile players. that's what I meant when I say I take it like a man! I seem to understand players logging off during a fight is a real problem in this game. Even if it's allowed to do so with the 10 sec rule, it's cheap and I'll never do that no matter if its against NPCs or players. However, I'm not gonna get killed by ships that are over 50 M more valuable than mine and call it a challenge, meanwhile they don't even get any real consequences for what they did to an "clean" player than didn't even pledged to any faction. This is basically sealclubbing, so yes I'm gonna play solo for the time being and intend to go back in PvP once I'm at least able to defend myself and fully understand the different combat mechanics of the game. (I'm just starting to get combat missions).
Tony Volpe block the troll and move on? A type 6 rebuy is like 4 minutes of mining. You shouldn’t have to run to solo because you died once. It’s all mental.
@@luckybrand6762 He could have caught me just before I arrived and the material I had was needed to meet the engineer, which took me a couple hours to grind for and to travel to get it. I'm not gonna risk that type of stuff especially knowing there is no real consequences whatsoever to gankers destroying other peaceful ship. It makes no sense they are not wanted for more than one hour. The game gotta be consistent at minimum for me to die for no reason to someone with a 50 M superior ship. Until then, I'll play solo... In fact, I just joined a private group of over 5000 members for north america on PC alone, they have a simple rule, don't be a dick and do not attack other players. I would have preferred a "don't attack without reasonable motive such as wanted or pledged to a faction etc." but I'll settle for this, at least I'll get to meet folks :) For anyone interested, it's called "Dangerous PvE - Mobius". They have over 40 000 members counting all platform :O
I do feel we need to figure out a better crime system to deal with ganking. I have no problem with the risk (saying as someone who was killed in about 3 seconds in my early days while flying an Adder), but I want the ganker to also have risk associated with going around and squashing easy targets.
@@kamillatocha that's actually good idea. Banning gankers (like permit systems) from some key systems like Deciat would be another way of preventing that.
Getting ganked in a hot AX conflict zone whilst damaged & boosting away waiting for your shield to recharge is the in game equivalent to being stabbed in the back whilst taking a dump. Cheap as you like.
@@LMGunslinger griefers don't rp. they go for easy kills and then justify it to themselves and others. they even go out of their way to slander us lawfuls who hunt them. They are some of the most toxic players in the community, are universally hated by 99% of the game's player base, routinely make asses of themselves on public forums and seemingly have no self awareness they post racial slurs in system chat, stalk lawful cmdrs outside the game, they impersonate lawful groups like SPEAR to mislead new players into thinking we're griefers, etc. Some of them even use trainers (cheat programs) to give themselves godmode and exploit broken game mechanics like NPC slfs to deliberately cause lag. They will deny all of this despite the thousands of videos and screenshots we have of them doing this, and then try to spin it around and accuse lawful players of doing it because they think our roleplay is not valid They also falsely accuse lawful cmdrs of cheating because of lag-induced issues caused by poorly written netcode, while turning a blind eye to the dozens of outlaws who cause similar problems due to their crappy cellular internet plans
I had 3 people that tried to gank/grief me once in deciat... destroyed 2 of them but had to jump out of the system because the last guy ( in a vette ) would have finished me off if I didn't... Funny part is he send me a message calling me a pussy... then I asked him to 1v1 me after I repaired my ship... I got no reply back :P
@@WatcherCCG oh trust me, they are not silent. some of these gankers go to ENORMOUS lengths to slander and shit-talk lawful players who hunt them. They can't take what they dish out. Some of us even have to deal with them stalking us outside the game just for shooting at their spaceships in a video game
this game would be great to play in a pve mode. the pvp just made me play in solo. just getting shot out of the sky by fully engineered up wings made up of bored people as a form of entertainment wasn't my cup of tea.
7:40 Why not? Gankers and griefers don’t have any scruples about forcing the way they want the game to be on everyone else. The problem for me isn’t that it happens. The problem is that there are no long term consequences for anyone but the victim. Suppose I get interdicted while doing a trading mission in my python. I lose: 1.5 million credits worth of cargo. Around 100k credits paying off the fine because I then had to abandon the mission. And 9.5 million credits on rebuy for the ship itself. That is an enormous loss of money effort and time. And what does the semen-gargler who did it get as punishment? A bounty that barely lasts an hour and is hardly worth anything anyway. I’m not saying get rid of these kinds of players. Im saying to change the Crime and Punishment system so that theres less incentive to be a piece of shit.
Because in my opinion and many others, anyone that plays in Mobius is a coward. You can't even willingly enter a duel without getting banned in that group. If you don't want to get fucked with, play in solo. If you want to ARR PEE, join a RP private group. Mobius is just a fancy way to play solo.
@@MJRSoap "anyone that plays in Mobius is a coward" Could a statement possibly be both so utterly arrogant and ironic at the same time? People aren't "cowards" because they don't want their ENTERTAINMENT (which is what a video game is) ruined and their time wasted. The real cowards are people like you, who are getting frustrated that your hapless victims are taking their ball and going home because you're such a bitch to play with. That said, the whining of bullies like you who's victims have found a way to deny your psychotic "fun" is music to my ears, so keep whining.
@@MJRSoap I basically play in solo so as I don't have to run into people like you. Calling players cowards because they don't subscribe to your point of view is arrogant beyond belief. You're either a heartless troll or just plain ignorant, my money is on both.
@@tracymorgansbelly3322 Found another bully. As much as you can try to redefine it as "being afraid", it's not--it's not wanting to be frustrated and annoyed at having my time wasted and my gaming fun spoiled. I'm not "afraid" of the smell of dog crap, but I don't want it in my house. I'm not "afraid" of long lines at a store, but I don't want to get in one. I'm not "afraid" of griefers, trolls, and bullies in video games, but I don't want them in my games. Calling people "cowards" for that is revealing your inner frustration that ALL psychopaths feel when their victims deny them their "fun". You're attempting to shame people back into being your victims again. Fat chance, psycho. Players are on to your tactics.
"Bad Manners" are things a person does subconsciously, like eating with your mouth open. Griefing, ganking and trolling are just extensions of being an evil or broken person in real life.
Awesome that you tackled this thorny issue in your signature logical and thoughtful way. I agree definitions are important and you did say we were free to add our own, so here are mine: 1) Players who play almost exclusively to ruin others' fun 2) Players who hate to ruin others' fun and want to co-operate and help one another instead. It would be nice to have a "dangerous" game world, but that concept was holed below the water line when Frontier made the design decision to have credit earning internals (cargo racks, srvs, scanners etc) come at a direct 1:1 cost of PvP internals (hull reinforcement, shield reinforcement, cell banks etc). Then the decision to make wings a thing but with minor PvE benefits and massive PvP benefits. Final nail in the coffin was the decision to have crime and punishment be a total shambolic joke even after a ground-up overhaul. Because of that, if ever I am going to play the game for its designed rewards (credits/mats/rank), I am by definition setting myself up to be an easy victim of (my) cat 1 players. This is not "danger" it's design-assisted suicide.
My first day, I was repeatedly murdered until I went solo. Now, I get whacked every few months, but most commanders I run into are just working their way along, and Silent Sams or friendly enough.
The true care bears are the griefers, gankers, trolls, and pvpers who log out when the tables are turned on them. It is an unfair slur to say people that just want to play in a more realistic and reasonable fashion are care bears that can't take it. If there were serious consequences for bad behavior, I bet most people would have a different attitude about unwanted pvp.
You're one of the lucky ones. My first FEW deaths happened through self-destruct because I ran out of fuel before discovering the EXISTENCE of fuel scoops. XD
So. I go to engineer my Asp, as I want to do some long range exploration. I depart the planet, and I get killed by a dude. Just like that. Just because they feel like it. I respawn, and they do it again. I respawn, and they do it again. And you say this is what the "vast majority" of the community want the game to be? If it's true, it means that this community is super toxic. Fortunately, I think you're wrong about that. Just to be clear, let me spell out why this is not acceptable. I'm a veteran Commander, I have disposable billions, I don't particularly care. I switch to solo, I leave the system, I switch back to open, I carry on with my life. But now imagine a new player, super excited because they have finally surpassed the grind necessary to unlock the engineer and gather the materials. They have saved enough to buy an Asp, they're finally ready to explore the galaxy...and they get ganked. What is their reaction going to be like? Most likely, they'll get mad, frustrated at the ganker and at the game. Maybe they won't have enough credits to rebuy everything. Maybe they'll leave the game for good. I don't consider the "fun" of a few sociopaths to be as valuable as the fun of new players. We, as a community, should be the first to recognize that, and to protect new players for this hideous form of gatekeeping. And no, "play solo lul" is not a cogent argument. There are aspects of the game that can be experienced only in open, and players preventing other players the enjoyment of those parts is exactly bullying. If you don't fight a bully, you enable one.
the vast majority of the community don't want players to be able to gank you without consequences. we do want player agency that gives players the freedom to play how they want, including being murderers. there are many of us who hunt these gankers in the game. sadly we just can't be everywhere at once, and the game's broken instancing system makes it hard for us to even see the gankers when we're in the same place as them half the tme.
@@dreyone6156 Yes, but "the freedom to play how they want" should also be granted to new players who want to be able to go to an engineer and leave it in one piece. Gankers orbiting an engineer's station for the sole purpose to PREVENT players from accessing it is gatekeeping, and should NOT be considered a viable playstyle. There is an immense amount of difference between a player roleplaying a "bad guy", and a player exploiting the shortcomings of the game to be a jerk on purpose. If the community isn't able to discern between the two, then my judgement stands: the community itself is mostly toxic. And also, the developers should recognize that fines and criminal tags, which are in-game mechanic to punish in-game playstyles, are simply not enough to combat a behaviour that should have nothing to do with the game experience.
Punishment system need a revamp. If you’re wanted, for example, your insurance cost is reduced down to 50% so you’d have to spend more money to get your ship back if you’re destroyed. Plus, you should also have a bounty placed on you that’s equal to the costs of ships you destroyed while pirating or the value of the cargo/data they carried. It’d make pirating more difficult and much more of a consider-carefully action than it currently is now, which enables seal clubbing.
@@aconite72 I think that any punishment that hits the player's wallet is doomed to fail. For many, many gankers money is just not a factor, you could up the bounty to billions and it would be hardly noticeable. We need something different, some real punishment, some real restrictions or consequence, otherwise it's going to be moot.
@@Giby86 The correct solution is incentivizing meaningful pvp. This has been discussed exhaustively on Reddit, the official game forums and is a common topic brought up on PVP discords. Sadly, Fdev does not listen to the PVP player base (whom also consist of some of the most skilled and experienced players in the game) and have consistently shot down their excellent ideas which would address the problem of ganking quite well simply because there is not enough of us. Their primary consumer base sadly consists of carebears, players who want nothing to do with PVP and refuse to even allow it to exist in a healthy state in this game, despite PVP being an integral part of Braben's vision for the franchise. Instead they apply pressure on Fdev to implement horrible ideas like instance blocking, solo mode and private groups, which has ruined all forms of meaningful PVP in the game and drove many players to ganking. You don't have to take my word for it. Spend enough time in the community, talk to enough experienced players and read their posts on the forums/Reddit and you'll see for yourself how many years in a row they have brought up the fact that the lack of meaningful PVP in this game has directly contributed to ganking and effectively created the problems that carebears complain so much about. Sadly this community will never allow PVP to exist in a healthy state in the game. They will fight tooth and nail to ruin PVP gameplay, and that is why you see almost no players doing PVP bounty hunting, you see almost no players doing player piracy, PVP powerplay activities and other forms of PVP that don't involve outright ganking. Ganking is sadly the only consistent form of PVP in the game, because Fdev have gone to enormous lengths to completely neuter any form of meaningful PVP otherwise. If Fdev actually listened to the PVP community we'd have alternative paths opened up for non-ganking PVP, many gankers would stop being gankers, and the few who remain would be hunted relentlessly by player bounty hunters, greatly limiting their ability to gank without consequences. As long as people continue deluding themselves into thinking that NPCs will ever solve what is effectively a player problem, it will never get fixed, and ganking will continue to occur at hotspot systems at high rates in the game. I just wish the carebears saw and understood this so they would stop pressuring Fdev to ruin PVP
Agree, play the game how it suits you - I only play in open personally but understand why people choose solo. When I get interdicted, I submit and try and run, or if they seem like a newbie I'll take them on - if it's a wing of gank-equipped players I can't escape, I try and self-destruct before they can blow me up - it's just a rebuy, and it robs them of their meaningless "victory". They are just immature bully assholes like you'd find on any school playground.
@@Beer_Dad1975 same here, I have use menu log to escape if I'm close to dying and can't escape. They will call it shameless, but if you can survive the 15 seconds, it's fair game, same as it's fair game for gankers to kill weak targets.
@@BrunoMoozika I've never combat logged, but I can understand why people would do it especially if their credit balance is low & it's no more shameless than taking on other players 3 on one.
@@Beer_Dad1975 I wouldn't condone combat log, it is against the rules and cheating. Waiting 15 seconds to menu log that is perfectly legit in my book (and FDev).
@@Beer_Dad1975 that's not Combat Logging. CL is deleting the task from the processes tab. Logging out and taking the 15 second logout is 100% legit and not something you can punish via Fdev.
@@florbfnarb7099 No, risk is I'm playing a miner and you're playing a pirate. There is a dynamic there I'd expect. What's described in this vid are players choosing to be varying levels of assholes to other players (and usually new ones) which can sour a new player to the game making them leave prematurely. Or worse, they think it's the only way to play and then turn around and do it to others if they stick around. It's toxic.
@@pkidawmbt I think there's a big difference between legitimately trying to kill someone to loot their cargo as a pirate, and insta-killing someone who never has a chance just for the purpose of pissing them off. If gankers are just looking to duel for the sport of it, it also means you don't saw a Sidewinder in half with an Anaconda and claim that you killed a CMDR in battle -- you didn't kill anyone, you swatted them like a fly.
@@Stoney3K I do agree with you, as a player who doesn't have 2 billion credits in reserve getting one shoted by ships twice my size isn't really fair. Then again it does get the blood flowing you know? Helps you not fall asleep mining or scanning planets. Also I occasionally meet cmdrs who although do gankspank me, say something funny or give me a chance to run or something which I do appreciate although it still gets my blood pumping. Trolls who do stuff like boost into you to die so you get targeted by a station etc I find funny if they don't become annoying Griefers are scum tho.
There are no trolls in elite. You mentioned Donie as an example forgetting that after a troll session he restores everything and rewards his victim with some recourses for being a good sport, no harm no foul only being slightly inconvenienced, that never happens in elite it's just an asshole that won't be punished for their actions. And to all the idiots who say "it's a space sim" this is a game that's pretending to be a sim, if you think otherwise go outside and shoot someone in the leg then go to the police station and request to pay the 100 dollar fine.
Sounds to me like the op is just making excuses for crap behavior. The griefer, the ganker, and the troll would all likely rage quit and run crying to mommy if the consequences for their actions were scaled to match the punishment they dish out.
Exactly. You make some excellent points on this subject. Been thinking about this one for a long time. You definitely hit the nail on the head. Great video as usual.
I thought the definition of "gank" was Gang Kill. Which is to say, intentionally ganging up to grief individuals using numbers to leave them no hope of defending themselves or escaping. Griefing for me just means any activity, but especially killing, in game where players are doing it solely to annoy or frustrate other gamers enjoyment of the game. I personally consider it the responsibility of the developers (as curators of the game) to prevent negative behaviour. It's really no different from the management of an entertainment venue having responsibility for security measures like security staff, CCTV monitoring and refusal of service. As with a poorly run bar, if you have a game with too much negative behaviour you probably should move on. It's management's problem, not yours.
The term has evolved to mean any form of jumping someone when they have little to no hope of defending themselves. As I said, this certainly would including have numbers over them, but it can also be because you have a far superior ship, situation, gear, level, et cetera.
gank is originally an urban term from the 80s/90s that was appropriated by gamers sometime after the 21st century the original term just meant stealing something, usually by force in games the definition varies but generally refers to players who are very skilled and/or well equipped attacking far less experienced and ill-equipped players , or simply killing any player for no valid in-game reason
i mean, griefing to me is causing grief, so essentially what you said. If for example I'm playing a game like Minecraft or Astroneer, and someone continually stops me from being able to do what I want, that frustrates me, and if they do it in bad heart, and they don't see it as a joke that went too far, then they are a griefer. For example I was playing Astroneer recently, and I needed to get to my friends, but these players kept taking the things I built and digging me in holes where I'd die because you need to be near oxygen in Astro. I then stole something of theirs and they got pissed off at me. So I saw them as griefers and no longer regarded them with any trust as to my location
You made me rethink my position regarding gankers. Let me start by clarifying that I have nothing against PvP in general or gankers in particular, especially because there's solo mode for anyone that doesn't want to deal with it. My position against ganking in Elite is a lot more related to the open mode gameplay design than the actions of the players. The case I often present is about experienced gankers going after relatively new players near Felicity Farseer. In this case, the less experienced player with the much less capable ship has nothing positive to take from the experience. In my opinion, any player "lost" to solo mode because of experiences like this is a loss for the Elite universe. I maintain this position, however, I used to generalise this example to all ganking. I think I was wrong in doing it. The added danger of a possible aggressive player is indeed part of the experience and ganking is a big part of it. The open mode gameplay design doesn't encourage gankers to go for high value targets or at least to leave the less experienced players alone. I'm not saying they should be actively protected, what I'm saying is that in-game economy, ranks, etc, should strongly encourage gankers to leave them alone for better targets. Sorry for the wall of text and thank you for the food for thought.
I was raised on EVE Online. Ganking and the like are simply part of the game for me. If I lose my ship, I'm like 'Good thing Elite has such an amazing insurance program'. Do have an interesting story of a pirate. I decided to do one of the community events by getting bounties in a nearby hazardous ring in a separate system. I believe I was doing this in my Corvette which I just got and put collector limpets in it. On my way back to turn in the bounties, I get interdicted by another player and he tells me to not move or he would shoot. He then demanded my cargo while scanning me. I asked him if he wanted my limpets but knew he was looking for the materials for the community event. He said no and quickly departed. Have another story where I was testing out shooting thargoids in a Krait. Another player suddenly interdicts and starts attacking me, claiming he was part of the Thargoid Preservation Society. Since I was a rookie for fighting thargoids and not sure if anti-xeno weapons would work on this person, I high waked out.
If you lose your ship ok. But what if you had a cago full of millions cr in diamonds? Or just traveled across the galaxy scanning planets and all that data lost because of a small dick neckbeard with no friends?
@@GameAlicornLuna Yes and you do that once then you return to solo while the other one has no risk whatsoever shoting down an unarmed ship. Which is exactly the problem.
@@GameAlicornLuna See, that "blame the victim" mentality is why I can't get on board. To me, you and those thinking like you are true-to-life bullies, rejoicing that you run the playground. I play in open and take names. I don't cry or run, I get better and get revenge. And that's the problem, your bully mentality turns a game that's supposed to be about exploration, trade, and war into a game of revenge. I read a post about a pvper attacking a guy chasing thargoids because he(?) was a member of the Thargoid Preservation Society. That I respect, in game role playing for a cause. Even piracy where no shots are fired without cause is respectable. The topics mentioned here are just bullying, and that's irredeemable.
I just got into playing elite dangerous. What are some way to avoid or lose gankers. I’m guessing you couldn’t just super cruise away from them or hyper jump or whatever it is called. Maybe you can but I’ve heard a word being used that I didnt understand and can’t remember right now
I have a video called tips avoiding gankers. The real tip is vigilance. Pay attention in populated areas and be ready to jump away. And don't loiter in hot spots
Elite was never well thought out for PvP combat by the developers. It's that simple.The first broken rule, power play speaking, is that the game allows for players of enemy factions to wing together. So if I was aligned to an Empire faction, the game allows me to wing with another human player who is aligned to a Federation faction.Secondly, elite doesn't create any mission scenarios, in which players can engage in combat for any meaningful purpose.So what you have, are players who desire combat just randomly wasting other players for no reason or goal, other than to satisfy the desire for combat.Then, these players who engage in PvP combat are then labeled "greifers", "gankers", or "trolls". Sad really...
There is a reason I advise friends to start in solo till they have some experience and a better ship It's beyond difficult for them to get started otherwise and I can't follow them around myself all the time to help them in PvP till they have their legs under them and a big gun in their hands
Me and my friends all just play in a private session, there’s enough of us that the universe feels alive yet we don’t got to worry about annoying griefers either. It’s a good balance. We swap to open when community events that require co-op are around though.
Just found your content a while back, and enjoyed your videos up until this one. This video was not so much you explaining what those situations are, but more you sitting on a high horse and berating the small children before you who complain about having to deal with this kind of stupidity. And bear in mind, most of us that have experienced this kind of behavior have not, as you suggest, been the targets for tactical or strategic reasons. We're in a damn type 6 with no cargo and get destroyed by some idiot in FDL because he's got nothing better to do and this is how he gets his rocks off. For you to suggest it's anything more grandiose than that is a complete insult to our intelligence. You're not the only person that's been playing MMOs for a decade or more and it's not like we've never seen this kind of behavior before. And I'd love to know where you got the statistic that most players enjoy this aspect of Play, Because Frontier does not release the numbers of people playing per game mode. However, I do find it interesting that if you look at the forums, not only do you see a significant number of people playing in Solo or private groups, but you also have entire play groups dedicated to playing while trying to eliminate this kind of bullshit; Mobius at 40k members among others. So where is your vast majority of players? I'm not sure why you're trying to justify this kind of asinine Behavior. Maybe this is something you engage in. Maybe this is something your friends engage in, or maybe you just literally don't have a problem with some thirteen-year-old blowing the shit out of you for absolutely no reason simply because he knows there are no consequences to it and it cost HIM nothing. All I can tell you is the first time I lost 2 month's worth of exploration data due to some monkey with the emotional maturity of a houseplant was the last time I played this game in open, and no amount of pseudo psychological bullshit that you throw out on the Internet is going to convince me that what I made was a selfish choice and I just don't understand the game. I would have no problem accepting this kind of behavior if there was an actual punishment system in place. Put in some goddamn consequences, and I need some real ones, and I'm good with it. But as long as you can take people with no consequence and the only cost is to the person that you just attacked for no reason, it's complete bull shit you're blind as he don't see it.
Couldn't agree more, specifically with the bit about being blown up for absolutely no legitimate reason at all, and by "legitimate" I mean "something that might give somebody reason to attack you in real, actual meatspace", such as trying to lug a high value cargo through an anarchy known to house pirates. THAT would be understandable and goes on the list of "things you should probably avoid doing or expect bad things to happen if you do anyway." But chugging around empty, doing your business exploring space or just enjoying the sights until suddenly "BOOM", you're attacked by some jerk in a ship five times your size just because he felt like it? And no, I don't in the slightest buy the vid's "but it's all for the challenge" b.s., because there IS no bloody challenge in blowing an Adder out of the water with a Fer de Lance, period. Ergo, they're doing it just because it's "fun." For them. And absolutely nobody else. In other words, what normal people out here in the real world would call "psychopaths" or worse. The kind that enjoyed pulling the wings off of flies when they were kids, only they never grew out of it.
@@misha6699 man i literally made the same comparison to torturing insects after my unarmed exploration vessel with a couple mil of data got detonated by some micropenis in a 100+ mil krait
1:48 well he did say it's your problem if you disagreed, the obvious sign someone unable to have a meaningful conversation. He just wanted to speak his opinions, not listen to yours, in an open forum
The psychology behind this is as deep as the space, I’ve just finished the tutorial after watching the beginner guide video, love the emphasis on sandbox, I play minecraft with the kids but they play peaceful creative, I don’t, it’s down to personal or parental preference. As you stated so well.
I started playing elite recently, had it 4 years ago already but quit due to the grind. now that I am back I have met mostly griefers. I met 2 people who didn't grief me one I met in my SRV after a griefer destroyed my parked ship. Another 'friendly' player interdicted me telling me he is a pirate and that he wants to negotiate, I dig that. He scans me sees that there is no cargo there abnd he can clearly see my novice combat rank, so he doesn't grief without reason, he leaves. The rest of elites playerbase doesn''t get this, they are just pure toxxic, the more novice their opponent the better, real lowlife scumbag people. This game is actuall worse than RUST in toxicity, this is because fDEV have no idea how to make players interact with each other other than killing. Even the most broken game in the universe star citizen has basic mission sharing and palyer made missions , without this elite will stay toxic forever. Correct me if I'm wrong but Io walways thought I could only get ganked in a voluntary pvp situation, yeah it entails getting beat by eitehr someone who has much more skill or manpower, but getting ganked is being defeated when you join a fight imo. When they actively interdict ppl with no intent of piracy or wait in groups of 3 at the most poplar farming spots just to destroy noobs, it is griefing not ganking. Getting ganked was always the feeling of having tried but being overwhelmed, you are getting griefed whean y
Lootjunior Avoid the major stations like Jameson and you will be fine. I have tripled my playtime since moving to open because I have met players that want to go exploring together or mining together and it’s totally worth blocking the asshole or getting ganked once a month.
It’s hard to fault them because where does progress lead? This game is just a series of grinds, which most people do in the best efficient way they can. Gets tedious. PvP entailing epic ship combat it’s a huge draw to the game on paper only to a lot people. It’s just that since no one plays the cqc game type, and when you instigate fights no one is interested in because it is a waste of time and money, it leads to this situation. It’s the most enthralling experience pking and to secure kills you need to find where CMDRs are at, and always kill them fast to prevent combat logging/legit escape. It’s really frontiers fault for not incentiving or facilitating pvp correctly. Ultimately leads to the current situation. I don’t even really blame the people besides suicide ships that try to blow you up when docking.
@ Lootjunior: Frontier has stated numerous times (mostly through their actions) that they WANT griefing and ganking to be part of their game. After all, it's "Elite:Dangerous" and not "Peasant:Harmless"... they never said this, but this seems to be the undertone to me... . Anyway: I have played mostly in Solo mode, and if I felt like I want more social interaction I logged into private group (the best known one here is "Mobius", here you get kicked for ganking; it still happens, but is extemely rare). Open Play I only choose if I want a little bit of a thrill, fully aware of being killed at any given time without warning or any chance to escape or win. If you log into Open Mode, you basically accept to be ganked/griefed. It's justz the way it is, there is no use in complaining. It's like complainign about getting burned when you try to grab fire - it's just what happens. Do not insist on "Open has to be fair", or you WILL not have any fun. Just remember: Open mode is for when you want to live dangerously. Private group is for socialicing. Solo Mode is for when you have to get sh!t done. This has worked for me for 5 years. Apart from this, I agree with you. Frontier seems to be clueless about their game; they simply do not see it from a players perspective. They have their own ideas about how the game is supposed to be and how it is supposed to be played. Unfortunately they have never shared their ideas with us, let alone explained them to us... .
Two times I was ganked and two times that I didn’t knew what exactly was needed to be done yet some time later the same folks who were after me failed to get me BECAUSE I escaped right in front of their noses, that’s when this quote comes into place “expect the unexpected” it’s all about to adapt, survive and overcome any challenges that are presented towards you. HOWEVER the outcome if you have the resolve to make it happen.
Thanks for the content. Always helpful. I've been ganked and destroyed a few times. It sucks. I made sure I had insurance and took my lumps. I'm still mining to make credits and havent done the engineer grind yet.
I super concur, especially the pitying part. This is possibly the best video clarifying the three and should be shown to every internet community, not just ED's or even gaming ones. Also, dat comedic timing just as you finished defining trolls is ultra good. Unless the viewer wasn't paying attention.
I remember I once asked "does anyone know where Ligma is?" in the system chat. Approximately 3 minutes later, as I was preparing to dock in that same system, I was interdicted; not once, but twice by the same dude. He then proceeded to kill me. Keep in mind that I had nothing on me, nor was I wanted. So my deduction was that he got mad at me for asking where "Ligma" was.
i just started pvp pirating. I dont resort to violence unless necessary. I notify my target that I intend to pirate them and warn them not to flee. I only deal severe damage or destroy my targets if the target a) fights back or b) is trying to escape and i believe there is fair chance of preventing their escape.
There is such a fine line between Griefing and Ganking. And most of the time a new player getting ganked is not fun and will most likely feel like Griefing. It is one of the big reasons I have played most of the time in Solo because it allows me not to have to worry about any form of this. One of the first times that the game went into gamma I was Griefed coming out of a station and about to take off. I couldn't play for a week so the other player was a lot more ahead then I was and he killed me pretty quickly. Not much you can do in a sidewinder. I have also been ganked a few times where I came out on top due to my being in good standing with the Federation so security came into the instance very quickly to defend. But now I just play in solo it is easier and safer and this game for me is a more time passing game than any type of competitive or thrill-seeking game.
fair comment and well explained - I can remember when npc's became a challenge think it was after 2.1 dropped - then people complained that they were too hard- now they dont attack you at all unless your carrying high value cargo and then they dont hammer you that much, hasrez's are doable in a viper3 now
I remember being at shinratra with my prototype vulture which had only plasmas on it. Unfortunately for me I was ganked by a cutter and a krait 2. The targeting on the plasmas didn't work let's say.
At one point, it's not about how you want to play the game but how other people force you to play the game. You either always fit your ship for PVP or risk dying over and over to the same people at the same spots. This means that your game play with others is limited to combat, and all other actions you may want to take either take a very long time to organize or are just purely useless. Who would babysit miners for hours just to split the profit? Perhaps you could recruit local NPC to protect you. Or rare specific spots where you could get super rare minerals that sell for a high price. High risk, high reward, as there would almost certainly pirates patrolling those areas... I'm not saying it's impossible to have all the game play in open space, but it does require a lot of changes as currently the "danger" is always on the side of the ship not equipped for combat. There should also be higher risks/penalties/danger/difficulty for the one ganking/griefing/trolling.
How about a video with tips on how to survive an attempted ganked experience? I heard you let them interdict you, plot to a new system, go to silent running, drop heat sink, chaff if you have it, run and jump away
I found my first ganker the other day. I was in my rover gathering guardian parts and he blew me up to go get the parts himself instead of just playing in solo to farm the mats. I tried twice to kill him and finally said screw it went solo to farm for a bit.
My first PVP fight was when someone interdicted my Vulture with a brand new Fer-de-lance. I didn't attempt to shoot back, just focussed on evading, but screwed up my FSD destination and got intercepted again and sunk. It felt a little ganky, but I'd joined one of the powerplay factions so I think that mades me a legit target. No huge loss and it was fun to try to get away!
The only time I've ever gotten ganked was back pre-horizons, when I was still flying around in an Eagle. I get interdicted out of nowhere, with no NPC message or whatever and I'm sitting here like "what the heck, who's interdicting me?" So I get yanked, spin around to see what's up and I just see a Fer-De-Lance barreling towards me guns blazing. He blasts down my shields, engines, and power plant before I can even deploy hardpoints. I'm sitting there, dead in the water, and he rolls up cockpit-to-cockpit, and just starts rolling and pinging me with a class 1 pulse laser once every like, three seconds. This was before I figured out what reboot/repair does, so I just sat there for about five minutes before just logging because he was just being an ass about it. In retaliation, I gun down every Fer-De-Lance I see, NPC or not.
The first time a ganker attacked me, i was going to a starport in Deciat, to restock my equipment after exploring Guardian ruins. After a 400LY+ trip, someone interdicted me. I was doing well with evading the interdiction, and i dropped when i was ALIGNED WITH THE ESCAPE VECTOR. 2 ships where behind me, i dont know what they are, and i my Guardian exploration DBX with just a multi-cannon was literally BOMBARDED from the back. Shields down, i blinked and my hull was at 1%. They killed me in about 5 seconds. Fortunately, i respawned in the target station. I replaced my SRVs, and i lost 400k. This was my 2nd visit to Deciat, and at the 1st visit i only saw nice people vibin in the ravine next to Farseer Inc.
I play a lot of private but I spent my initial grind upto my python and krait in open. I didn’t get ganked often but made some friends along the way as I met other CMDRs at trading stations hauling full loads of void opals like me. The occasional wait for parking spots at small stations was entertaining because I’d hover my ship right outside the cockpit of the person taking my parking spot. It was a great way to make friends. I honestly think engineer camping can borderline count as grieving 90% of the time. It’s pretty messed up getting one shot in your bubble bus DBX after traveling 300+ light years. Like if you’re camping the engineers at least wait for the CMDR to switch to the ship they’re gonna upgrade lmao.
I am only going to try open once I have a fully engineered fer-de-lance, with plenty of rebuys, that way I won't get absolutely curb stomped by gankers or greifers.
When I was new to the game I had no clue that they were any such things as gankers out there. Until I was killed in a shinrarta. It motivated me to keep playing the game when I was about to quit because I had done a lot of things and pretty much seen almost everything in the game. PVP is a whole different animal and I love it. I like feeling like I could be hunted down and killed. I even fly around in a paper-thin exploration ship in open at all times. I mine in open. I don't give a shit if I have 300 million in diamonds on board. I stay in open. I accept that danger and I like it. In addition to that I also know a lot of gankers and Griefers. Once you get to know them some of these definitions early on will shift. Ganking and griefing is going to continue but if F Dev would create more player-versus-player it would help. content like making bgs open only primarily so you can defend your interest from people who go into private group and negatively affect you without fear of retaliation. Also if people would actually Wing up and start defending each other when doing Transportation missions or Community goals it would be more enjoyable for everyone. it would also Force players to learn aspects of the game to ensure their success instead of relying on solo and private 2 circumvent their incompetence. In the very least it would force them to unlock engineers, build ships with better defenses and learn how to escape. Competency. a lot of this also has to deal with putting your big boy pants on. When someone blows you up and starts busting your balls you can respond like an adult and roll with it or you can respond like a child and become offended. also saying that they're potentially mentally Disturbed is one hell of an assumption LOL. I was kind of surprised he said that but like anything else I respect other people's opinion. Not to mention that shit made me laugh. there are so many things that can be done to avoid being destroyed that it's irresponsible not to learn them especially in Elite DANGEROUS AF. learning how to read your UI and instrumentation can save you. Learning basic drop techniques and Escape techniques can save you. Learning engineering and how to high wake to escape masslock can save you. Knowing what systems to enter cautiously can save you. knowing what systems you probably should not enter at all can save you. making friends with people who know how to kick other people's asses can save you. Not to mention a lot of these things can be done with other players but a lot of what people call Care Bears are often times loners and don't really care too much about group interactions or helping each other. I've seen this firsthand. A lot lately might I add. Instead of being helpful and giving people advice I oftentimes hear them say shit like have you ever heard of inara? How about EDD B. IO? instead of taking them and showing them something and developing a friendship they Pawn you off on a program and then creep off into the black to be by themselves and get killed by themselves. Well. Have at it. I will also say that I have been in groups a lot of them on Discord. A lot of them are PVP groups. I have also been in some what people call carebear groups. I have found the latter to be so damn toxic. I feel more welcome in groups of Gankers then I do in groups of Care Bears who walk around like their shit don't stink. They threaten to kick you at every given moment for doing almost anything. I've heard stories of people being kicked out of private groups and out of Discord for just talking about PVP. That's fucked up. It's no wonder people like that get murdered in open. They have a reputation and it precedes them. I don't feel sorry for them one bit. you said early on Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Well that's mine. I also have to say I love your videos and your content, keep up the good work. More than likely those people will also read this. If you don't like how I feel about the subject I don't really give a shit. You Know Who You Are.
I read half of this thinking you were agreeing with me, until you stated you were disagreeing... Even your entire post is almost exactly what I said in the video... You did watch the video, right? I spent most of the video defending gankers and trying to encourage people to play in open, get stronger, and respond to them more appropriately. My negative insults were targeted toward griefers, NOT gankers, and I was extremely careful to phrase it that way. I even defined griefers in the video, as the toxic, spiteful, personal version of the ganker.
@@SepulcherGeist I read back through you my comment and I think we might have just had a communication breakdown. I pretty much agree with everything you said I think. When I was talking shit at the end I was talking shit to a group of people that I've been hanging with lately. It's not about you when I'm getting a little bit shity. sorry for any misunderstanding. I could have been the way that I wrote it. The only thing I may be sort of disagree with would be the Assumption made about Griefers. I'm not exactly sure what they're full motivation can be but it may just be their version of fun. I don't necessarily know if they've been beaten or not LOL but if they have been beaten I wouldn't go announcing that to everybody in the community that they were abused children LOL
I used to play in open but one day, while I finally made my way from Maia back to Deciat with a single piece of meta-alloy, I got ganked. I continued my session by mining peacefully inside the rings on the night side of a gas giant but I never went to open ever again after this session.
I have survived every gank attempt in this game. I only get that special adrenal fix when I can't afford to lose. Almost lost my first anaconda because of insufficient funds. They even continued firing into the station.
Very well put my man, it’s a pleasure to listen to you speak! There will always be bad manners, but I still think that elite should become dangerous: if you venture into an anarchy system as a new player you should not expect to get out alive, whereas a trader in a high sec system should have fighter escorts automatically assigned that would defeat virtually any ganker attack by players.
And an explorer going to Deciat should NOT expect to be killed for no reason. Your argument is weak. You're talking about legitimate gameplay: anarchy systems are supposed to be dangerous lawless lands, and trading should be a high-risk, high-reward endeavour. This is NOT the problem. The problem is random people killing players for no reason and suffering no consequences.
@@Giby86 Fdev’s error was to place the noob engineer base in a medium security system. Gankers will gank, it happens in all MMOs. What if deciat was high sec and high sec actually meant something?
@@captpugwash8915 So explorers are now "noobs"? Nice gatekeeping. Also, high security doesn't do much and we all know it. There are no real consequences, because the ONE thing the system uses to punish players is money. And we all know that money is virtually infinite if you're a veteran.
@@Giby86 take it easy, I’m certainly not saying explorers are noobs, it doesn’t even make sense. For the record, I don’t gank myself and have done plenty of exploring. I was just stating that ganking could be made a lot more difficult with a properly designed C&P system.
The word ganking usually implies that the person doing the ganking has a huge advantage over the other person, usually as a consequence of a persistently developing online advancement. Most games try to avoid this happening to low level players by having either completely separate "starting" areas with no pvp, or tiered systems where you only meet threats of a similar level.
Flew a long way out in a diamondback scout to buy one tonne of meta alloys to start unlocking engineers. Got all the way back and was interdicted in said system and splatted in seconds by a Mamba. As a newbie it was immensely upsetting. I never go in open because of this.
Imo, power doesn't corrupt - it just reveals your true self. When you insert certain people into no-consequence environments like Elite Dangerous and GTA Online, many of them feel empowered, because they no longer have to suppress the desires that society punishes them for. A lot of griefers, gankers & trolls will say things like "Chill out, it's just a game" when you confront them. Yes, it's just a game, but it says a lot about you as a person that in a world where you can do anything, & fulfill your deepest fantasy, you've chosen to spread misery.
Fortunately only got ganked once, technically twice. First trip to Colonia in an unarmed DBX, fortunate i made the station. Heading out a well armed Krait killed me in the no fire zone. After i respawned he tried again, fortunately I made the jump out. I took the first one in stride, the second was just cheap.
Wahow, I appreciated how you make the loop of this "issue". I hated those bad manners and had to play solo for my early months in game but slowly changed my mind about gankers, griefers...once I was fully engineered and the game started to be a bit more balanced for me. This video describes exactly what steps I had to cross to accept this part of the PVP. Will share it. great job cmdr O7
Yeah? So this means the only possible way to play open is being in the endgame, and fly a combat capable ship? Realize what you're saying: you're saying that new players should be bullied into playing solo. You're saying that explorers have no place in open.
@@Giby86 no YOU are saying it dude. I just explain how things turned for me in the game, but in any case I say : people should do this or that, you say it. To answer you : every single expedition is happening in private group (mostly fleetcom). So what do you suggest ?
@@Giby86 I would say : better to be engineered to play open. And again I’ve never used the word « combat ship ». All my ships are ready to be attacked in open : trading, mining, explorers... that’s it.
@@cmdrmaskime Yes. But that's an unreasonable expectation. If I build an exploration ship correctly, it cannot be ready to be attacked, not by gankers anyway. If I were to put enough bulk on my Asp to survive, it wouldn't be an effective explorer. And again, I can't stress this enough: this is BULLYING. What you're saying is the equivalent of saying to a boy who got beaten up "hey kid, either you go to the gym and man up, or you play in your own backyard", which is disgusting.
@@Giby86 man I only talked about MY experience and the steps I HAD to come throughout my early experience. Again explain us how we should play it rather than criticising the way I played it !? Tell me we can do pvp with people with a new account and stock ship ? About exploration, some players will agree that maxed out jump range is not requiered as we usually explore in economical routes. Take a look at Mission farsight, they are out in the black since 5 years ago, with 35 ly jump range but shield tanked for High G landing and eventually : player attack. There is not ONE way to play the game, people are just free to play it the way they want.
Powerplay killings are legitimate. The game even rewards the player without punishment. I feel too many players toss the term "griefer" around without fully understanding the game or the consequences for pledging. The word ENEMY in big, bold, red letters on your ship holds significance in the game. I dont care if youre module shopping or if you have no weapons. You made the choice to pledge. End of story.
Lol I remember the first time I got killed because of powerplay, I didn’t know what pledging meant or why you do it, but I was certainly taught my lessons when I flew into federation space on accident!
Exactly, i killed an aspx pledged to Hudson, my CMDRs rp enemy, and he got mad. i said before pulling you you shouldn’t have pledged to him idc what your reason is. He was in an expansion system too.
I play open but very rarely do I run into gankers. In fact I ran into gankers once. 2 asp explorers interdicted me and attacked when I was flying towards some back water station no one goes towards. I just engineered my FDL so I ended up killing the first player his buddy was about dead when he caught me off guard with a body slam. Turns out it is effective to use an asp explorer as a battering ram. Sent the dude a message saying “let’s call it a draw”
i've been filling the role of a pirate since the game release. when i see a player i feel an insane rush of excitement and its what makes the game fun for me. this little player interaction is what makes the game for me. and i strive to be known on the forums as the number 1 pirate of the game. its a shame the game has so little players for such a big world, because i barely play it anymore due to the rare player interactions.
And here is me, playing the game for about 2 months and the only other player I've ever met was someone I crashed into while manually undocking. I did not even realise it was another player until an hour later when I noticed that he had apologised for being in the way in chat :D
I'm for open mode but with a higher price for the griefer to pay ( maybe a high bounty placed on them) so the grieved would have some type of balancing toward their favor. I think it gives the griefer more excitement and more responsibility for their actions.
FDEV in order to remain relevant and profitable over the next year as well as any space MMO must adopt eve online proven methods to deal with this part of the game. The lack of punishment from any form of mindless killing in controlled space is ridiculous. There should be exceptions for specific things but to sit in Jameson memorial and club baby seals for the sake of it with no real punishment needs to result in a real crime and punishment system implemented in to the game. Remove private and solo all together. The whole concept of being able to play in a diffrent reality that affects things as a whole and be completely protected is laziness......for fdev to say solo and private was implemented for any other reason then their lack of effort to creating a real crime and punishment system is a flat out lie.
I enjoy the people who gank in Shinrarta. I've never met any tryhard FDLs; they tend to have really creative and silly builds that make me laugh (like a shieldless DBX full of forceshell cannons). They're always a good sport and it's how I met a lot of cool people in the game.
I remember one time. I tried to sell Diamonds and there was an FDL in my system. It was also my first time trying to mine something. I saw he was behind me. He then texted me "Hello Pirate here". And i was damn angry. I said "cmon man I'm a noob". He just said "you are complaining without getting pulled xD". Then he did not do anything to me. He just carried on and probably had a laugh about this.
my first ever interdiction by a player said, if i did a thing for them they would give me a void opal. i wasn't interested as i was just doing my space trucker thing and had a full hold of cargo. so apparently i "chose death" and him and his buddy just blew me up in 2 seconds flat. this taught me the valuable lesson to never fly anything you can't buy back and to play solo if you aren't part of the git gud squad of players that like combat XD. the only thing i was angry about there was me actually being friendly to the fucker as i was being played for a chump.
my solution to players is a cutter with max shields and max thrusters. if u cant fight em out run em. cutter cant be mas-locked to so thats a nice bonus if ur dealing with someone cocky in an anaconda. i was ganked onces when i 1st bought an expensive ship and selected what i thought at the time was some big missions. i got a fine and lost almost all my money
i live in a timezone where open is deserted i only ever really met commanders in a cobra Mk3s ive only interacted with 2 people meaningfully. THANKS AUSTRALIAN TIME ZONES
The problem with ED is the ships have laser guns that don't deplete fuel supply when being fired. Boosting also doesn't have any fuel penalty. Shields can stay powered on without any fuel penalties. Fuel penalties to make systems energy could discourage griefing.
Except they do, your fuel consumption per hour increases if your hardpoints are deployed in addition to your modules demanding more power (class, engineering upgrades, and rating have an effect on power draw).
@@PhantomXT I have never noticed it. The rate isn't significant enough to make an impact in how you would decide what to do in regards to combat piloting. Frontier just nerfs modules like weapons which cancels the reward of progression from the grind you had to do to upgrade. This I have certainly noticed. Significant fuel consumption could discourage unnecessary combat griefing and also FD's constant nerf hammering of module upgrades. Making fuel usage higher for boosting, shield usage and weapons would make combat and also module spec choices more realistic and interesting.
Nobody:
CMDR WENTURBORNE: I'm About to End This Man's Whole Career
Seems like the Alliance ships are the tool of the gankers/greifers now. I know Wenturborne was helping out here, but the areas around Deciat are rife with them
@@EvilMerlin yep had my issue on Saturday.
Sucks that when Geist shot back he got a damn bounty. Dissapointing design
Tobias Weisserth yeah the consequences need to be a lot stronger. A huge non payable bounty, like 50 million and you end up on Galnet’s most wanted lol. The legitimate pvp guys would have something to do, the rest of us would have some of the pressure taken off and the gankers would have a sense of immersion lol. Everyone wins.
@@prisonerofthehighway1059 Yes, a ganker's scrotum should be nailed to a burning stump and then given a butter knife so they have a choice.
I was in a hauler with 0 weapons on it. I got killed and recieved several fines and a bounty...for being attacked...with no weapons. Since then I have been playing solo.
@@Cooyy imagine commenting on a 7 month old post to shit on someone
Poo on you
@@hunner4265 lol
I remember when I first started playing Elite, still in a Sidewinder just trying to figure out a way to make credits and I limped out of the starter system only to get ganked by a waiting CMDR. Never flew in open after that.
One of these days, you will. For whatever reason. Mb even by mistake, but you will. And I will be right there........... I. Will. Be. waiting...)
@@hgyuuuuhj098 ???
What a little 🚼
@@hgyuuuuhj098 do you have the milk of yummness too?
Just go left instead of right?
I do enjoy playing in open, but when I'm "working" and trying to make money, I play in either solo or private group. I'm a single parent and work a lot of hours, so when I do play elite, I want to make progress. Not spend hours doing something only to have the time be essentially wasted because other players felt like getting a laugh.
I could not agree more.
I think playing in solo is bad, because is like cheating there’s People who eant to role as pirate like me, npc doesnt work well and they dont even carry mineral ...
i would remove solo play
@@pietroagrip3807 Problem here is "roleplay". I'm all for roleplay, you can roleplay the hell out of the game if you want. What is NOT fine is to force your personal roleplay's consequences on people who are not into your roleplay. People who paid real money to explore the game's universe. This is your own roleplay remember. If I play the game, it will not be to serve you. By all means, gather all the roleplayers and roleplay away but do not force others to play along.
@@pietroagrip3807 alright well i play elite to roleplay as a noncombatant scientist exploring the depths of space. i really do not want the fiction this game provides to me being ruined by people who have nothing better to do than roleplay as senseless murderers
@@emerylafleur i m talking about pirating not about terrorism 🙄, and anyway people talks about simulator game. So everyone can role wich person they like to role in space, so if ED let the opportunity to do this why you all should ruin this playing in solo? And if you are a non combat scientist just evade...
I play open less after being ganked - I just finished a 500 jump run from SagA and got interdicted on an approach to Farseer inc. No way was I going to lose all that exploration data so I went cheap and logged out. I still play open when I've less to lose beyond rebuy.
@@weisserth They're having fun just like u. They do it differently. I find PvP and shitting on people fun in this game.
Dude... why would you go to an engineer system with that much to lose?!
@@LMGunslinger To get robbed obviously, lol
@@LMGunslinger Logged on in open by accident...
@@jacobturnerart tragic
Here's an interesting take: Despite EVE online being more "hardcore" than elite, I think ganking is a much *better* mechanic in EVE. There are two things in EVE that separate it from Elite. 1: No rebuys (Well, there's insurance, but that hardly covers the actual value of a fitted ship.) 2: CONCORD. There is no running or fighting them, you incur their wrath, you will get vaporized, thus with 1 and 2 together, any ship you use for ganking for all intents and purposes be a *total loss* (if done in highsec anyways). This changes the dynamic of ganking considerably for EVE, as the ganker has to consider what they are willing to throw away (or risk outside of highsec) for their target, and always run the risk of losing their ship *and* getting nothing for their troubles
I think this a beautiful system as it encourages ganking to happen, but subtly deincentivizes (without hard restricting) the seal-clubbing match-ups that often happen in elite. Inexperienced/new players don't make the kind of money that would make them appealing targets in the first place, and EVE's system also discourages someone from taking the best blinged out high-tier ship they have and smashing everyone else, as that's more for them to lose. And a madman picking those match ups anyways for trolling is going to be doing it at their own expense.
Risk/reward is a two way street, and I don't think elite quite reflects that as an attacker risks little if anything on their part.
This reminds me of that time in EvE when I just started exploring and scanning for sites to get some money. Eventually my greed made me go to low sec to find more valuable sites. The first few runs went ok and made quite a bit of cash and I was really thinking "oh this is easy, nobody cares". The next day however when I almost made it back to safe space with my treasure, I made a jump and suddenly there was this weird glowing thing around my ship.... next thing I know I was blown up... This was actually a really thrilling experience and totally my own fault for just yolo-ing it.... So I started to train into cloacking etc..., made an effort to study the map for recorded player kills to trying to avoid active systems.... to see how I could do better in the future. Had this not happened to me the game wouldnt be as fun to be honest... The danger WAS real and I had to do something about it.......
Now this sounds like a viable, even good solution.
It seems insane that insurance companies would choose to pay out on a policy when the claimant had committed a crime.
someone tried to gank me in eve, but they didnt notice that we were in a .4 sec system. they got blown up by concord then sent me a message saying sorry for trying to kill me and that they only went for people who risked going in lowsec systems, just to add a bit more risk to the game for those who want it.
I think i have underestimated EVE
That is so fucking brilliant, the ganking still occurs but the original offender gets punished more for doing it and more if they're using a high-tier build, making it more fair, I love that
This was actually a better game at launch in this regard.
When interdicted, If you reacted well, you could fight off most attackers long enough to jump out, provided your ship was sensibly equipped and you chose quickly to run.
With the advent of wings and engineers there's often no chance because it's basically an instakill. That coupled with an increasingly bad rubber-banding and hacking problem.... It's not a pretty picture if you're a fan of open.
As a new player I feel constantly agitated by ganking, has never happened, but I still have heard mostly bad things about the community.
Good thing I usually have Elite rank friends on my Wing accross the galaxy as an intimidation mechanic, but yeah.
@@knavenformed9436 Do solo. If u play open and know the risk and still get mad... your a bot, lol.
I dislike the whole engineering concept. The grind sucks. And it really increases the gap between veteran players and noobs.
@@LMGunslinger Dont suck then
@@Jacob-iy5jx O.o nothing about grinding for engineering is skill related.
I would have a hard time not taking it personally if I got ganked in my undefended long range explorer just as I got back from an 18 month tour in the black.
That's billions in credits lost and hundreds to thousands of hours of lonely jumping and scanning all blown up by an a-hole coward who wouldn't even try me in my FDL, regardless of his motive.
It's not quite as bad to get jumped in you mining ship after hours of core drilling but it still kinda sucks. Still a lot of money lost. Less time though. And mining ships are usually sturdier than explorers.
yeah, I recently went on a ten thousand lightyear trip with a sub 20 LY jump range, and when I got to a place to sell the data, I was incredibly worried I was going to get destroyed by someone.
@@Boomchacle thats what solo play is for?
Yup.
@@cgcgames1 Some people don't want to hide in solo but also want to live in the galaxy in peace without being shoehorned into one "right" style of play. That being combat pilot of course. Open non combatants recognize that it's a risk, hence the concern. But, as in real life, bad behavior ought to have a robust crime and punishment deterrence. It shouldn't be banable nor should it be made impossible. But at the same time their should be penalties and bounties tied to the value destroyed, so the ganker has a risk to consider, consequences. People kill and rob in real life but most people mind their own business so most people have no fear of leaving their homes.
Kevin Barbour
then why play in open?? how many people do you run into while out exploring?? so again, why play in open?? especially when you can jump back and forth with impunity! i just started this game after playing eve for many years, don't play eve because you definitely won't be able to handle how harsh that world is!
I'm sorry... In the middle of the video when your on the planet on the SRV, did that guy shoot and destroy your ship and then start firing at you, and when you fire one shot in self defense you get a bounty? WTF?
Typical ED
It might be because they were allied with that super power in the system and Ed is dumb and if your not allied they can attack you without getting a bounty
@@LegendsNeverDie2099 it makes sense that doesn't make it less annoying though
@@LegendsNeverDie2099 I can agree with that
@@Jessiepinkmin lol wrong. NPCs that are wanted will attack you. It has nothing to do with your reputation with a faction.
I would not say Elite tries to cater to the community as a whole - grief, gank, troll... the problem is a weak punishment system.
Elite dangerous is constantly accommodating the non pvp side of the community it took them 2 years to fix a bug as simple as the fighters
They definitely need to add some more depth the the pvp and player interaction system.
I don’t pvp, in fact I only have 5% toward the first combat rank. So when I say, there isn’t a ganking problem there isn’t.
Why? Simple, there’s a thing called solo. You play in open, you know the risks. “But I want to play with friends” play in a group session. It’s really simple to be honest.
There needs to be a solid place for trolls in the game tho. Trolls make games more difficult and challenging and tense and its fun
Arguably though, the insurance system in this game is much more fair, especially when you compare it to a similar space MMO, EVE Online. Here, you lose your ship, and you can rebuy the ship and its entirety for the fraction of the cost. I don't know if that covers engineering and other tailored upgrades though as I'm not quite that far. But losing a ship in ED hurts far less.
Got killed by a ganker at the start when I had only a type-6.. He was waiting at a planetary station (the engineer FSD one) to kill me as I took off.
I was pretty frustrated but I took it like a man and didn't log off or anything. After my death, I looked on wiki and forum to see if doing such actions against another player that has no bounty on would have repercussion on him. The answer is, no repercussion.. (he gets wanted for like an hour or so, big deal). Like you said in your definition of ganker, it was pretty cheap but if the repercussion would have been proportionate... Like getting wanted in this controlled sector forever until he gets destroyed, then I would be "hey, fair enough.. it's part of the game, he will have a bounty on his head until he gets killed".
But no, he just killed a noob that was pretty poor in credit to begin with and without any consequence... The result is, since then, I only play solo... Which is the same for a lot of players and in final hurting the gaming experience for everyone. I blame the player as well as dev for this, they should implement more punishing consequences if you attack another player for no reason.
took it like a man to solo? oof
@@luckybrand6762 what else is he supposed to do lol?
@@luckybrand6762 Maybe I wasn't clear enough, so I'll explain my point further to you and everyone else reading it.
I didn't complain at the guy or disconnected, I get that in PvP, you gonna encounter hostile players. that's what I meant when I say I take it like a man! I seem to understand players logging off during a fight is a real problem in this game. Even if it's allowed to do so with the 10 sec rule, it's cheap and I'll never do that no matter if its against NPCs or players.
However, I'm not gonna get killed by ships that are over 50 M more valuable than mine and call it a challenge, meanwhile they don't even get any real consequences for what they did to an "clean" player than didn't even pledged to any faction.
This is basically sealclubbing, so yes I'm gonna play solo for the time being and intend to go back in PvP once I'm at least able to defend myself and fully understand the different combat mechanics of the game. (I'm just starting to get combat missions).
Tony Volpe block the troll and move on? A type 6 rebuy is like 4 minutes of mining. You shouldn’t have to run to solo because you died once. It’s all mental.
@@luckybrand6762 He could have caught me just before I arrived and the material I had was needed to meet the engineer, which took me a couple hours to grind for and to travel to get it. I'm not gonna risk that type of stuff especially knowing there is no real consequences whatsoever to gankers destroying other peaceful ship.
It makes no sense they are not wanted for more than one hour. The game gotta be consistent at minimum for me to die for no reason to someone with a 50 M superior ship.
Until then, I'll play solo... In fact, I just joined a private group of over 5000 members for north america on PC alone, they have a simple rule, don't be a dick and do not attack other players. I would have preferred a "don't attack without reasonable motive such as wanted or pledged to a faction etc." but I'll settle for this, at least I'll get to meet folks :) For anyone interested, it's called "Dangerous PvE - Mobius". They have over 40 000 members counting all platform :O
I do feel we need to figure out a better crime system to deal with ganking. I have no problem with the risk (saying as someone who was killed in about 3 seconds in my early days while flying an Adder), but I want the ganker to also have risk associated with going around and squashing easy targets.
exactly!! they do get wanted but only for an hour.. They should get wanted until destruction in region they did it!
simple u killed a player u pay him for his ship rebuy
@@kamillatocha gta style insurance payout? Dang that would bankrupt some people seeing some of the ships out there.
@@kamillatocha that's actually good idea. Banning gankers (like permit systems) from some key systems like Deciat would be another way of preventing that.
@@kempo79 atleast do this in systems where engineers are as this places mostly are deathzones for me
Getting ganked in a hot AX conflict zone whilst damaged & boosting away waiting for your shield to recharge is the in game equivalent to being stabbed in the back whilst taking a dump. Cheap as you like.
Tywin Lannister agrees.
Isn't there a pro Thargoid player base in ED? Maybe he was RPing.
@@LMGunslinger griefers don't rp. they go for easy kills and then justify it to themselves and others. they even go out of their way to slander us lawfuls who hunt them. They are some of the most toxic players in the community, are universally hated by 99% of the game's player base, routinely make asses of themselves on public forums and seemingly have no self awareness
they post racial slurs in system chat, stalk lawful cmdrs outside the game, they impersonate lawful groups like SPEAR to mislead new players into thinking we're griefers, etc. Some of them even use trainers (cheat programs) to give themselves godmode and exploit broken game mechanics like NPC slfs to deliberately cause lag. They will deny all of this despite the thousands of videos and screenshots we have of them doing this, and then try to spin it around and accuse lawful players of doing it because they think our roleplay is not valid
They also falsely accuse lawful cmdrs of cheating because of lag-induced issues caused by poorly written netcode, while turning a blind eye to the dozens of outlaws who cause similar problems due to their crappy cellular internet plans
I had 3 people that tried to gank/grief me once in deciat... destroyed 2 of them but had to jump out of the system because the last guy ( in a vette ) would have finished me off if I didn't...
Funny part is he send me a message calling me a pussy... then I asked him to 1v1 me after I repaired my ship...
I got no reply back :P
The silence proves you weren't the weakling in that exchange.
I bet you won because you had the high ground
That clown is the poster boy for birth control.
@@Quincebo Naturally! :P
@@WatcherCCG oh trust me, they are not silent. some of these gankers go to ENORMOUS lengths to slander and shit-talk lawful players who hunt them. They can't take what they dish out. Some of us even have to deal with them stalking us outside the game just for shooting at their spaceships in a video game
this game would be great to play in a pve mode. the pvp just made me play in solo. just getting shot out of the sky by fully engineered up wings made up of bored people as a form of entertainment wasn't my cup of tea.
7:40
Why not? Gankers and griefers don’t have any scruples about forcing the way they want the game to be on everyone else.
The problem for me isn’t that it happens. The problem is that there are no long term consequences for anyone but the victim. Suppose I get interdicted while doing a trading mission in my python.
I lose:
1.5 million credits worth of cargo.
Around 100k credits paying off the fine because I then had to abandon the mission.
And 9.5 million credits on rebuy for the ship itself.
That is an enormous loss of money effort and time.
And what does the semen-gargler who did it get as punishment? A bounty that barely lasts an hour and is hardly worth anything anyway.
I’m not saying get rid of these kinds of players. Im saying to change the Crime and Punishment system so that theres less incentive to be a piece of shit.
Precisely. Though I AM saying get rid of them. At this point, the lack of punishment should be considered an exploit and treated accordingly.
There’s a reason Möbius (private group where killing another player will get you banned) has over 25,000 players. Why don’t you research that one.
Because in my opinion and many others, anyone that plays in Mobius is a coward. You can't even willingly enter a duel without getting banned in that group. If you don't want to get fucked with, play in solo. If you want to ARR PEE, join a RP private group. Mobius is just a fancy way to play solo.
@@MJRSoap "anyone that plays in Mobius is a coward"
Could a statement possibly be both so utterly arrogant and ironic at the same time? People aren't "cowards" because they don't want their ENTERTAINMENT (which is what a video game is) ruined and their time wasted. The real cowards are people like you, who are getting frustrated that your hapless victims are taking their ball and going home because you're such a bitch to play with.
That said, the whining of bullies like you who's victims have found a way to deny your psychotic "fun" is music to my ears, so keep whining.
@@MJRSoap I basically play in solo so as I don't have to run into people like you.
Calling players cowards because they don't subscribe to your point of view is arrogant beyond belief.
You're either a heartless troll or just plain ignorant, my money is on both.
@@spamhere1123 how are you NOT a coward if you're afraid of other people in a video game.
@@tracymorgansbelly3322 Found another bully. As much as you can try to redefine it as "being afraid", it's not--it's not wanting to be frustrated and annoyed at having my time wasted and my gaming fun spoiled. I'm not "afraid" of the smell of dog crap, but I don't want it in my house. I'm not "afraid" of long lines at a store, but I don't want to get in one. I'm not "afraid" of griefers, trolls, and bullies in video games, but I don't want them in my games.
Calling people "cowards" for that is revealing your inner frustration that ALL psychopaths feel when their victims deny them their "fun". You're attempting to shame people back into being your victims again. Fat chance, psycho. Players are on to your tactics.
"Bad Manners" are things a person does subconsciously, like eating with your mouth open. Griefing, ganking and trolling are just extensions of being an evil or broken person in real life.
Awesome that you tackled this thorny issue in your signature logical and thoughtful way. I agree definitions are important and you did say we were free to add our own, so here are mine: 1) Players who play almost exclusively to ruin others' fun 2) Players who hate to ruin others' fun and want to co-operate and help one another instead. It would be nice to have a "dangerous" game world, but that concept was holed below the water line when Frontier made the design decision to have credit earning internals (cargo racks, srvs, scanners etc) come at a direct 1:1 cost of PvP internals (hull reinforcement, shield reinforcement, cell banks etc). Then the decision to make wings a thing but with minor PvE benefits and massive PvP benefits. Final nail in the coffin was the decision to have crime and punishment be a total shambolic joke even after a ground-up overhaul. Because of that, if ever I am going to play the game for its designed rewards (credits/mats/rank), I am by definition setting myself up to be an easy victim of (my) cat 1 players. This is not "danger" it's design-assisted suicide.
My first day, I was repeatedly murdered until I went solo. Now, I get whacked every few months, but most commanders I run into are just working their way along, and Silent Sams or friendly enough.
The true care bears are the griefers, gankers, trolls, and pvpers who log out when the tables are turned on them. It is an unfair slur to say people that just want to play in a more realistic and reasonable fashion are care bears that can't take it. If there were serious consequences for bad behavior, I bet most people would have a different attitude about unwanted pvp.
My first death, I was trying to fuel scoop a star. Turns out those things get real hot if you get too close lmao
You're one of the lucky ones. My first FEW deaths happened through self-destruct because I ran out of fuel before discovering the EXISTENCE of fuel scoops. XD
@@Giby86 or the fuel rats. don't feel like your wasting there time, they love being called out and most days it's very slow.
@@Storyteller543 I called the fuel rats, got saved and then died by crashing into a station
So. I go to engineer my Asp, as I want to do some long range exploration. I depart the planet, and I get killed by a dude. Just like that. Just because they feel like it. I respawn, and they do it again. I respawn, and they do it again. And you say this is what the "vast majority" of the community want the game to be? If it's true, it means that this community is super toxic. Fortunately, I think you're wrong about that.
Just to be clear, let me spell out why this is not acceptable. I'm a veteran Commander, I have disposable billions, I don't particularly care. I switch to solo, I leave the system, I switch back to open, I carry on with my life. But now imagine a new player, super excited because they have finally surpassed the grind necessary to unlock the engineer and gather the materials. They have saved enough to buy an Asp, they're finally ready to explore the galaxy...and they get ganked. What is their reaction going to be like? Most likely, they'll get mad, frustrated at the ganker and at the game. Maybe they won't have enough credits to rebuy everything. Maybe they'll leave the game for good. I don't consider the "fun" of a few sociopaths to be as valuable as the fun of new players. We, as a community, should be the first to recognize that, and to protect new players for this hideous form of gatekeeping.
And no, "play solo lul" is not a cogent argument. There are aspects of the game that can be experienced only in open, and players preventing other players the enjoyment of those parts is exactly bullying. If you don't fight a bully, you enable one.
the vast majority of the community don't want players to be able to gank you without consequences. we do want player agency that gives players the freedom to play how they want, including being murderers. there are many of us who hunt these gankers in the game. sadly we just can't be everywhere at once, and the game's broken instancing system makes it hard for us to even see the gankers when we're in the same place as them half the tme.
@@dreyone6156 Yes, but "the freedom to play how they want" should also be granted to new players who want to be able to go to an engineer and leave it in one piece. Gankers orbiting an engineer's station for the sole purpose to PREVENT players from accessing it is gatekeeping, and should NOT be considered a viable playstyle. There is an immense amount of difference between a player roleplaying a "bad guy", and a player exploiting the shortcomings of the game to be a jerk on purpose. If the community isn't able to discern between the two, then my judgement stands: the community itself is mostly toxic. And also, the developers should recognize that fines and criminal tags, which are in-game mechanic to punish in-game playstyles, are simply not enough to combat a behaviour that should have nothing to do with the game experience.
Punishment system need a revamp. If you’re wanted, for example, your insurance cost is reduced down to 50% so you’d have to spend more money to get your ship back if you’re destroyed. Plus, you should also have a bounty placed on you that’s equal to the costs of ships you destroyed while pirating or the value of the cargo/data they carried. It’d make pirating more difficult and much more of a consider-carefully action than it currently is now, which enables seal clubbing.
@@aconite72 I think that any punishment that hits the player's wallet is doomed to fail. For many, many gankers money is just not a factor, you could up the bounty to billions and it would be hardly noticeable. We need something different, some real punishment, some real restrictions or consequence, otherwise it's going to be moot.
@@Giby86 The correct solution is incentivizing meaningful pvp. This has been discussed exhaustively on Reddit, the official game forums and is a common topic brought up on PVP discords.
Sadly, Fdev does not listen to the PVP player base (whom also consist of some of the most skilled and experienced players in the game) and have consistently shot down their excellent ideas which would address the problem of ganking quite well simply because there is not enough of us.
Their primary consumer base sadly consists of carebears, players who want nothing to do with PVP and refuse to even allow it to exist in a healthy state in this game, despite PVP being an integral part of Braben's vision for the franchise.
Instead they apply pressure on Fdev to implement horrible ideas like instance blocking, solo mode and private groups, which has ruined all forms of meaningful PVP in the game and drove many players to ganking.
You don't have to take my word for it. Spend enough time in the community, talk to enough experienced players and read their posts on the forums/Reddit and you'll see for yourself how many years in a row they have brought up the fact that the lack of meaningful PVP in this game has directly contributed to ganking and effectively created the problems that carebears complain so much about.
Sadly this community will never allow PVP to exist in a healthy state in the game. They will fight tooth and nail to ruin PVP gameplay, and that is why you see almost no players doing PVP bounty hunting, you see almost no players doing player piracy, PVP powerplay activities and other forms of PVP that don't involve outright ganking. Ganking is sadly the only consistent form of PVP in the game, because Fdev have gone to enormous lengths to completely neuter any form of meaningful PVP otherwise.
If Fdev actually listened to the PVP community we'd have alternative paths opened up for non-ganking PVP, many gankers would stop being gankers, and the few who remain would be hunted relentlessly by player bounty hunters, greatly limiting their ability to gank without consequences.
As long as people continue deluding themselves into thinking that NPCs will ever solve what is effectively a player problem, it will never get fixed, and ganking will continue to occur at hotspot systems at high rates in the game. I just wish the carebears saw and understood this so they would stop pressuring Fdev to ruin PVP
You can't have one without the other, I choose private and enjoy the game, horses for courses.
Agree, play the game how it suits you - I only play in open personally but understand why people choose solo. When I get interdicted, I submit and try and run, or if they seem like a newbie I'll take them on - if it's a wing of gank-equipped players I can't escape, I try and self-destruct before they can blow me up - it's just a rebuy, and it robs them of their meaningless "victory". They are just immature bully assholes like you'd find on any school playground.
@@Beer_Dad1975 same here, I have use menu log to escape if I'm close to dying and can't escape. They will call it shameless, but if you can survive the 15 seconds, it's fair game, same as it's fair game for gankers to kill weak targets.
@@BrunoMoozika I've never combat logged, but I can understand why people would do it especially if their credit balance is low & it's no more shameless than taking on other players 3 on one.
@@Beer_Dad1975 I wouldn't condone combat log, it is against the rules and cheating. Waiting 15 seconds to menu log that is perfectly legit in my book (and FDev).
@@Beer_Dad1975 that's not Combat Logging. CL is deleting the task from the processes tab. Logging out and taking the 15 second logout is 100% legit and not something you can punish via Fdev.
to put it simply, all of these behaviors are flatly toxic and lead to a smaller player base overall.
Really? Not being able to eliminate risk means the game will have a small player base?
@@florbfnarb7099 No, risk is I'm playing a miner and you're playing a pirate. There is a dynamic there I'd expect. What's described in this vid are players choosing to be varying levels of assholes to other players (and usually new ones) which can sour a new player to the game making them leave prematurely. Or worse, they think it's the only way to play and then turn around and do it to others if they stick around. It's toxic.
@@pkidawmbt I think there's a big difference between legitimately trying to kill someone to loot their cargo as a pirate, and insta-killing someone who never has a chance just for the purpose of pissing them off.
If gankers are just looking to duel for the sport of it, it also means you don't saw a Sidewinder in half with an Anaconda and claim that you killed a CMDR in battle -- you didn't kill anyone, you swatted them like a fly.
@@Stoney3K I do agree with you, as a player who doesn't have 2 billion credits in reserve getting one shoted by ships twice my size isn't really fair. Then again it does get the blood flowing you know? Helps you not fall asleep mining or scanning planets.
Also I occasionally meet cmdrs who although do gankspank me, say something funny or give me a chance to run or something which I do appreciate although it still gets my blood pumping.
Trolls who do stuff like boost into you to die so you get targeted by a station etc I find funny if they don't become annoying
Griefers are scum tho.
There are no trolls in elite. You mentioned Donie as an example forgetting that after a troll session he restores everything and rewards his victim with some recourses for being a good sport, no harm no foul only being slightly inconvenienced, that never happens in elite it's just an asshole that won't be punished for their actions.
And to all the idiots who say "it's a space sim" this is a game that's pretending to be a sim, if you think otherwise go outside and shoot someone in the leg then go to the police station and request to pay the 100 dollar fine.
Sounds to me like the op is just making excuses for crap behavior.
The griefer, the ganker, and the troll would all likely rage quit and run crying to mommy if the consequences for their actions were scaled to match the punishment they dish out.
Exactly. You make some excellent points on this subject. Been thinking about this one for a long time. You definitely hit the nail on the head. Great video as usual.
I've really wanted to become a fuel rat. But I can't even last long enough in open to do anything.
Only the biggest douchebags in the game will attack a Fuel Rat, and they run out of friends QUICK when you report them to the community.
I've killed plenty of fuel rats and seems to have plenty of friends.
I thought the definition of "gank" was Gang Kill. Which is to say, intentionally ganging up to grief individuals using numbers to leave them no hope of defending themselves or escaping.
Griefing for me just means any activity, but especially killing, in game where players are doing it solely to annoy or frustrate other gamers enjoyment of the game.
I personally consider it the responsibility of the developers (as curators of the game) to prevent negative behaviour. It's really no different from the management of an entertainment venue having responsibility for security measures like security staff, CCTV monitoring and refusal of service. As with a poorly run bar, if you have a game with too much negative behaviour you probably should move on. It's management's problem, not yours.
The term has evolved to mean any form of jumping someone when they have little to no hope of defending themselves. As I said, this certainly would including have numbers over them, but it can also be because you have a far superior ship, situation, gear, level, et cetera.
gank is originally an urban term from the 80s/90s that was appropriated by gamers sometime after the 21st century
the original term just meant stealing something, usually by force
in games the definition varies but generally refers to players who are very skilled and/or well equipped attacking far less experienced and ill-equipped players , or simply killing any player for no valid in-game reason
i mean, griefing to me is causing grief, so essentially what you said. If for example I'm playing a game like Minecraft or Astroneer, and someone continually stops me from being able to do what I want, that frustrates me, and if they do it in bad heart, and they don't see it as a joke that went too far, then they are a griefer.
For example I was playing Astroneer recently, and I needed to get to my friends, but these players kept taking the things I built and digging me in holes where I'd die because you need to be near oxygen in Astro. I then stole something of theirs and they got pissed off at me. So I saw them as griefers and no longer regarded them with any trust as to my location
You made me rethink my position regarding gankers. Let me start by clarifying that I have nothing against PvP in general or gankers in particular, especially because there's solo mode for anyone that doesn't want to deal with it. My position against ganking in Elite is a lot more related to the open mode gameplay design than the actions of the players. The case I often present is about experienced gankers going after relatively new players near Felicity Farseer. In this case, the less experienced player with the much less capable ship has nothing positive to take from the experience. In my opinion, any player "lost" to solo mode because of experiences like this is a loss for the Elite universe. I maintain this position, however, I used to generalise this example to all ganking. I think I was wrong in doing it. The added danger of a possible aggressive player is indeed part of the experience and ganking is a big part of it. The open mode gameplay design doesn't encourage gankers to go for high value targets or at least to leave the less experienced players alone. I'm not saying they should be actively protected, what I'm saying is that in-game economy, ranks, etc, should strongly encourage gankers to leave them alone for better targets. Sorry for the wall of text and thank you for the food for thought.
I was raised on EVE Online. Ganking and the like are simply part of the game for me. If I lose my ship, I'm like 'Good thing Elite has such an amazing insurance program'.
Do have an interesting story of a pirate. I decided to do one of the community events by getting bounties in a nearby hazardous ring in a separate system. I believe I was doing this in my Corvette which I just got and put collector limpets in it. On my way back to turn in the bounties, I get interdicted by another player and he tells me to not move or he would shoot. He then demanded my cargo while scanning me. I asked him if he wanted my limpets but knew he was looking for the materials for the community event. He said no and quickly departed.
Have another story where I was testing out shooting thargoids in a Krait. Another player suddenly interdicts and starts attacking me, claiming he was part of the Thargoid Preservation Society. Since I was a rookie for fighting thargoids and not sure if anti-xeno weapons would work on this person, I high waked out.
If you lose your ship ok. But what if you had a cago full of millions cr in diamonds? Or just traveled across the galaxy scanning planets and all that data lost because of a small dick neckbeard with no friends?
@@dreamyrhodes That's on you for letting yourself get caught.
@@GameAlicornLuna Yes and you do that once then you return to solo while the other one has no risk whatsoever shoting down an unarmed ship. Which is exactly the problem.
@CMDR Legion Says "CMDR Legion" xD
@@GameAlicornLuna See, that "blame the victim" mentality is why I can't get on board. To me, you and those thinking like you are true-to-life bullies, rejoicing that you run the playground. I play in open and take names. I don't cry or run, I get better and get revenge. And that's the problem, your bully mentality turns a game that's supposed to be about exploration, trade, and war into a game of revenge.
I read a post about a pvper attacking a guy chasing thargoids because he(?) was a member of the Thargoid Preservation Society. That I respect, in game role playing for a cause. Even piracy where no shots are fired without cause is respectable. The topics mentioned here are just bullying, and that's irredeemable.
I just got into playing elite dangerous. What are some way to avoid or lose gankers. I’m guessing you couldn’t just super cruise away from them or hyper jump or whatever it is called. Maybe you can but I’ve heard a word being used that I didnt understand and can’t remember right now
I have a video called tips avoiding gankers. The real tip is vigilance. Pay attention in populated areas and be ready to jump away. And don't loiter in hot spots
@@SepulcherGeist oh cool I’ll look that video up. Makes sense good to know I could still jump away if someone was coming at me.
Generally the only people who would care enough to argue the semantics between these terms would be those that engaged in these behaviours.
Elite was never well thought out for PvP combat by the developers. It's that simple.The first broken rule, power play speaking, is that the game allows for players of enemy factions to wing together. So if I was aligned to an Empire faction, the game allows me to wing with another human player who is aligned to a Federation faction.Secondly, elite doesn't create any mission scenarios, in which players can engage in combat for any meaningful purpose.So what you have, are players who desire combat just randomly wasting other players for no reason or goal, other than to satisfy the desire for combat.Then, these players who engage in PvP combat are then labeled "greifers", "gankers", or "trolls". Sad really...
This is why we have our own sessions so we can ignore the people with bad manners... They are unwanted...
There is a reason I advise friends to start in solo till they have some experience and a better ship
It's beyond difficult for them to get started otherwise and I can't follow them around myself all the time to help them in PvP till they have their legs under them and a big gun in their hands
Me and my friends all just play in a private session, there’s enough of us that the universe feels alive yet we don’t got to worry about annoying griefers either. It’s a good balance. We swap to open when community events that require co-op are around though.
Just found your content a while back, and enjoyed your videos up until this one. This video was not so much you explaining what those situations are, but more you sitting on a high horse and berating the small children before you who complain about having to deal with this kind of stupidity. And bear in mind, most of us that have experienced this kind of behavior have not, as you suggest, been the targets for tactical or strategic reasons. We're in a damn type 6 with no cargo and get destroyed by some idiot in FDL because he's got nothing better to do and this is how he gets his rocks off. For you to suggest it's anything more grandiose than that is a complete insult to our intelligence. You're not the only person that's been playing MMOs for a decade or more and it's not like we've never seen this kind of behavior before. And I'd love to know where you got the statistic that most players enjoy this aspect of Play, Because Frontier does not release the numbers of people playing per game mode. However, I do find it interesting that if you look at the forums, not only do you see a significant number of people playing in Solo or private groups, but you also have entire play groups dedicated to playing while trying to eliminate this kind of bullshit; Mobius at 40k members among others. So where is your vast majority of players? I'm not sure why you're trying to justify this kind of asinine Behavior. Maybe this is something you engage in. Maybe this is something your friends engage in, or maybe you just literally don't have a problem with some thirteen-year-old blowing the shit out of you for absolutely no reason simply because he knows there are no consequences to it and it cost HIM nothing. All I can tell you is the first time I lost 2 month's worth of exploration data due to some monkey with the emotional maturity of a houseplant was the last time I played this game in open, and no amount of pseudo psychological bullshit that you throw out on the Internet is going to convince me that what I made was a selfish choice and I just don't understand the game. I would have no problem accepting this kind of behavior if there was an actual punishment system in place. Put in some goddamn consequences, and I need some real ones, and I'm good with it. But as long as you can take people with no consequence and the only cost is to the person that you just attacked for no reason, it's complete bull shit you're blind as he don't see it.
Couldn't agree more, specifically with the bit about being blown up for absolutely no legitimate reason at all, and by "legitimate" I mean "something that might give somebody reason to attack you in real, actual meatspace", such as trying to lug a high value cargo through an anarchy known to house pirates. THAT would be understandable and goes on the list of "things you should probably avoid doing or expect bad things to happen if you do anyway."
But chugging around empty, doing your business exploring space or just enjoying the sights until suddenly "BOOM", you're attacked by some jerk in a ship five times your size just because he felt like it? And no, I don't in the slightest buy the vid's "but it's all for the challenge" b.s., because there IS no bloody challenge in blowing an Adder out of the water with a Fer de Lance, period. Ergo, they're doing it just because it's "fun." For them. And absolutely nobody else. In other words, what normal people out here in the real world would call "psychopaths" or worse. The kind that enjoyed pulling the wings off of flies when they were kids, only they never grew out of it.
@@misha6699 man i literally made the same comparison to torturing insects after my unarmed exploration vessel with a couple mil of data got detonated by some micropenis in a 100+ mil krait
1:48 well he did say it's your problem if you disagreed, the obvious sign someone unable to have a meaningful conversation. He just wanted to speak his opinions, not listen to yours, in an open forum
Agreed, I mean FFS even STAR CITIZEN has more meaningful concequences to bad behaviour and its not even close to being a finished game.
The psychology behind this is as deep as the space, I’ve just finished the tutorial after watching the beginner guide video, love the emphasis on sandbox, I play minecraft with the kids but they play peaceful creative, I don’t, it’s down to personal or parental preference. As you stated so well.
I started playing elite recently, had it 4 years ago already but quit due to the grind. now that I am back I have met mostly griefers. I met 2 people who didn't grief me one I met in my SRV after a griefer destroyed my parked ship. Another 'friendly' player interdicted me telling me he is a pirate and that he wants to negotiate, I dig that. He scans me sees that there is no cargo there abnd he can clearly see my novice combat rank, so he doesn't grief without reason, he leaves.
The rest of elites playerbase doesn''t get this, they are just pure toxxic, the more novice their opponent the better, real lowlife scumbag people.
This game is actuall worse than RUST in toxicity, this is because fDEV have no idea how to make players interact with each other other than killing.
Even the most broken game in the universe star citizen has basic mission sharing and palyer made missions , without this elite will stay toxic forever.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Io walways thought I could only get ganked in a voluntary pvp situation, yeah it entails getting beat by eitehr someone who has much more skill or manpower, but getting ganked is being defeated when you join a fight imo. When they actively interdict ppl with no intent of piracy or wait in groups of 3 at the most poplar farming spots just to destroy noobs, it is griefing not ganking. Getting ganked was always the feeling of having tried but being overwhelmed, you are getting griefed whean y
Lootjunior Avoid the major stations like Jameson and you will be fine. I have tripled my playtime since moving to open because I have met players that want to go exploring together or mining together and it’s totally worth blocking the asshole or getting ganked once a month.
It’s hard to fault them because where does progress lead?
This game is just a series of grinds, which most people do in the best efficient way they can. Gets tedious.
PvP entailing epic ship combat it’s a huge draw to the game on paper only to a lot people. It’s just that since no one plays the cqc game type, and when you instigate fights no one is interested in because it is a waste of time and money, it leads to this situation. It’s the most enthralling experience pking and to secure kills you need to find where CMDRs are at, and always kill them fast to prevent combat logging/legit escape. It’s really frontiers fault for not incentiving or facilitating pvp correctly. Ultimately leads to the current situation. I don’t even really blame the people besides suicide ships that try to blow you up when docking.
C C I don’t understand why the people that complain the most don’t even involve themselves with what they are complaining about.
@ Lootjunior:
Frontier has stated numerous times (mostly through their actions) that they WANT griefing and ganking to be part of their game.
After all, it's "Elite:Dangerous" and not "Peasant:Harmless"... they never said this, but this seems to be the undertone to me... .
Anyway:
I have played mostly in Solo mode, and if I felt like I want more social interaction I logged into private group (the best known one here is "Mobius", here you get kicked for ganking; it still happens, but is extemely rare).
Open Play I only choose if I want a little bit of a thrill, fully aware of being killed at any given time without warning or any chance to escape or win.
If you log into Open Mode, you basically accept to be ganked/griefed. It's justz the way it is, there is no use in complaining. It's like complainign about getting burned when you try to grab fire - it's just what happens.
Do not insist on "Open has to be fair", or you WILL not have any fun.
Just remember:
Open mode is for when you want to live dangerously.
Private group is for socialicing.
Solo Mode is for when you have to get sh!t done.
This has worked for me for 5 years.
Apart from this, I agree with you.
Frontier seems to be clueless about their game; they simply do not see it from a players perspective.
They have their own ideas about how the game is supposed to be and how it is supposed to be played.
Unfortunately they have never shared their ideas with us, let alone explained them to us... .
Yeah, I don't buy that almost every person you meet is trying to kill you.
Two times I was ganked and two times that I didn’t knew what exactly was needed to be done yet some time later the same folks who were after me failed to get me BECAUSE I escaped right in front of their noses, that’s when this quote comes into place “expect the unexpected” it’s all about to adapt, survive and overcome any challenges that are presented towards you. HOWEVER the outcome if you have the resolve to make it happen.
Thanks for the content. Always helpful. I've been ganked and destroyed a few times. It sucks. I made sure I had insurance and took my lumps. I'm still mining to make credits and havent done the engineer grind yet.
If someone pulls me out of supercruise and opens up right away I just pull out my internet cable and log back in solo
I super concur, especially the pitying part. This is possibly the best video clarifying the three and should be shown to every internet community, not just ED's or even gaming ones.
Also, dat comedic timing just as you finished defining trolls is ultra good. Unless the viewer wasn't paying attention.
I remember I once asked "does anyone know where Ligma is?" in the system chat. Approximately 3 minutes later, as I was preparing to dock in that same system, I was interdicted; not once, but twice by the same dude. He then proceeded to kill me.
Keep in mind that I had nothing on me, nor was I wanted. So my deduction was that he got mad at me for asking where "Ligma" was.
Well you should’ve known where Ligma was. That’s entirely your fault.
What is that intro /outro song?
i just started pvp pirating. I dont resort to violence unless necessary. I notify my target that I intend to pirate them and warn them not to flee. I only deal severe damage or destroy my targets if the target a) fights back or b) is trying to escape and i believe there is fair chance of preventing their escape.
At least you put an RP spin on it.. So there's a method to what you are doing that can make it fun for all involved if done right.
I really like these definitions. They’re very helpful.
There is such a fine line between Griefing and Ganking. And most of the time a new player getting ganked is not fun and will most likely feel like Griefing. It is one of the big reasons I have played most of the time in Solo because it allows me not to have to worry about any form of this.
One of the first times that the game went into gamma I was Griefed coming out of a station and about to take off. I couldn't play for a week so the other player was a lot more ahead then I was and he killed me pretty quickly. Not much you can do in a sidewinder. I have also been ganked a few times where I came out on top due to my being in good standing with the Federation so security came into the instance very quickly to defend. But now I just play in solo it is easier and safer and this game for me is a more time passing game than any type of competitive or thrill-seeking game.
fair comment and well explained - I can remember when npc's became a challenge think it was after 2.1 dropped - then people complained that they were too hard- now they dont attack you at all unless your carrying high value cargo and then they dont hammer you that much, hasrez's are doable in a viper3 now
Griefers, Gankers, and Trolls are all the same. Eloquent as the video content is, separating them is naive at best.
I see this more in space madness than anywhere else
I remember being at shinratra with my prototype vulture which had only plasmas on it. Unfortunately for me I was ganked by a cutter and a krait 2.
The targeting on the plasmas didn't work let's say.
Super glad that you got your channel back!
Uh you know what? there seems to be a shortcut to this lesson, not buying the game at all.
Are there open groups where these are banned ???
Should I buy this game or Avorion? I don't know which i would enjoy more for my money.
At one point, it's not about how you want to play the game but how other people force you to play the game.
You either always fit your ship for PVP or risk dying over and over to the same people at the same spots.
This means that your game play with others is limited to combat, and all other actions you may want to take either take a very long time to organize or are just purely useless.
Who would babysit miners for hours just to split the profit? Perhaps you could recruit local NPC to protect you. Or rare specific spots where you could get super rare minerals that sell for a high price. High risk, high reward, as there would almost certainly pirates patrolling those areas...
I'm not saying it's impossible to have all the game play in open space, but it does require a lot of changes as currently the "danger" is always on the side of the ship not equipped for combat. There should also be higher risks/penalties/danger/difficulty for the one ganking/griefing/trolling.
Cool video, as a casual to ED I found this very informative.
How about a video with tips on how to survive an attempted ganked experience? I heard you let them interdict you, plot to a new system, go to silent running, drop heat sink, chaff if you have it, run and jump away
Or simply self destruct whatever takes you faster to rebuy screen. Just joking ....
Ah, I need to be ready to combat log.
I found my first ganker the other day. I was in my rover gathering guardian parts and he blew me up to go get the parts himself instead of just playing in solo to farm the mats. I tried twice to kill him and finally said screw it went solo to farm for a bit.
So....normal pvp but you decided to call him a ganker despite the fact he wasn't in a gang. Gank = gang kill.
My first PVP fight was when someone interdicted my Vulture with a brand new Fer-de-lance. I didn't attempt to shoot back, just focussed on evading, but screwed up my FSD destination and got intercepted again and sunk. It felt a little ganky, but I'd joined one of the powerplay factions so I think that mades me a legit target. No huge loss and it was fun to try to get away!
The only time I've ever gotten ganked was back pre-horizons, when I was still flying around in an Eagle.
I get interdicted out of nowhere, with no NPC message or whatever and I'm sitting here like "what the heck, who's interdicting me?" So I get yanked, spin around to see what's up and I just see a Fer-De-Lance barreling towards me guns blazing. He blasts down my shields, engines, and power plant before I can even deploy hardpoints. I'm sitting there, dead in the water, and he rolls up cockpit-to-cockpit, and just starts rolling and pinging me with a class 1 pulse laser once every like, three seconds. This was before I figured out what reboot/repair does, so I just sat there for about five minutes before just logging because he was just being an ass about it.
In retaliation, I gun down every Fer-De-Lance I see, NPC or not.
*hides my freshly purchased FDL behind my type-9*
😅😅😅 ya they are so dam annoying.
The first time a ganker attacked me, i was going to a starport in Deciat, to restock my equipment after exploring Guardian ruins. After a 400LY+ trip, someone interdicted me. I was doing well with evading the interdiction, and i dropped when i was ALIGNED WITH THE ESCAPE VECTOR. 2 ships where behind me, i dont know what they are, and i my Guardian exploration DBX with just a multi-cannon was literally BOMBARDED from the back. Shields down, i blinked and my hull was at 1%.
They killed me in about 5 seconds.
Fortunately, i respawned in the target station.
I replaced my SRVs, and i lost 400k.
This was my 2nd visit to Deciat, and at the 1st visit i only saw nice people vibin in the ravine next to Farseer Inc.
I play a lot of private but I spent my initial grind upto my python and krait in open. I didn’t get ganked often but made some friends along the way as I met other CMDRs at trading stations hauling full loads of void opals like me. The occasional wait for parking spots at small stations was entertaining because I’d hover my ship right outside the cockpit of the person taking my parking spot. It was a great way to make friends. I honestly think engineer camping can borderline count as grieving 90% of the time. It’s pretty messed up getting one shot in your bubble bus DBX after traveling 300+ light years. Like if you’re camping the engineers at least wait for the CMDR to switch to the ship they’re gonna upgrade lmao.
I am only going to try open once I have a fully engineered fer-de-lance, with plenty of rebuys, that way I won't get absolutely curb stomped by gankers or greifers.
Dammit. Your voice and narration is pure excellence!
I'm usually in a fairly engineered vette and rarely poke into open unless I know I'm amin a fairly quiet area
When I was new to the game I had no clue that they were any such things as gankers out there. Until I was killed in a shinrarta. It motivated me to keep playing the game when I was about to quit because I had done a lot of things and pretty much seen almost everything in the game. PVP is a whole different animal and I love it. I like feeling like I could be hunted down and killed. I even fly around in a paper-thin exploration ship in open at all times. I mine in open. I don't give a shit if I have 300 million in diamonds on board. I stay in open. I accept that danger and I like it. In addition to that I also know a lot of gankers and Griefers. Once you get to know them some of these definitions early on will shift. Ganking and griefing is going to continue but if F Dev would create more player-versus-player it would help. content like making bgs open only primarily so you can defend your interest from people who go into private group and negatively affect you without fear of retaliation. Also if people would actually Wing up and start defending each other when doing Transportation missions or Community goals it would be more enjoyable for everyone. it would also Force players to learn aspects of the game to ensure their success instead of relying on solo and private 2 circumvent their incompetence. In the very least it would force them to unlock engineers, build ships with better defenses and learn how to escape. Competency. a lot of this also has to deal with putting your big boy pants on. When someone blows you up and starts busting your balls you can respond like an adult and roll with it or you can respond like a child and become offended. also saying that they're potentially mentally Disturbed is one hell of an assumption LOL. I was kind of surprised he said that but like anything else I respect other people's opinion. Not to mention that shit made me laugh. there are so many things that can be done to avoid being destroyed that it's irresponsible not to learn them especially in Elite DANGEROUS AF. learning how to read your UI and instrumentation can save you. Learning basic drop techniques and Escape techniques can save you. Learning engineering and how to high wake to escape masslock can save you. Knowing what systems to enter cautiously can save you. knowing what systems you probably should not enter at all can save you. making friends with people who know how to kick other people's asses can save you. Not to mention a lot of these things can be done with other players but a lot of what people call Care Bears are often times loners and don't really care too much about group interactions or helping each other. I've seen this firsthand. A lot lately might I add. Instead of being helpful and giving people advice I oftentimes hear them say shit like have you ever heard of inara? How about EDD B. IO? instead of taking them and showing them something and developing a friendship they Pawn you off on a program and then creep off into the black to be by themselves and get killed by themselves. Well. Have at it. I will also say that I have been in groups a lot of them on Discord. A lot of them are PVP groups. I have also been in some what people call carebear groups. I have found the latter to be so damn toxic. I feel more welcome in groups of Gankers then I do in groups of Care Bears who walk around like their shit don't stink. They threaten to kick you at every given moment for doing almost anything. I've heard stories of people being kicked out of private groups and out of Discord for just talking about PVP. That's fucked up. It's no wonder people like that get murdered in open. They have a reputation and it precedes them. I don't feel sorry for them one bit. you said early on Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Well that's mine. I also have to say I love your videos and your content, keep up the good work. More than likely those people will also read this. If you don't like how I feel about the subject I don't really give a shit. You Know Who You Are.
I read half of this thinking you were agreeing with me, until you stated you were disagreeing... Even your entire post is almost exactly what I said in the video... You did watch the video, right? I spent most of the video defending gankers and trying to encourage people to play in open, get stronger, and respond to them more appropriately.
My negative insults were targeted toward griefers, NOT gankers, and I was extremely careful to phrase it that way. I even defined griefers in the video, as the toxic, spiteful, personal version of the ganker.
@@SepulcherGeist yeah pretty much. You did a good job man.
@@SepulcherGeist I read back through you my comment and I think we might have just had a communication breakdown. I pretty much agree with everything you said I think. When I was talking shit at the end I was talking shit to a group of people that I've been hanging with lately. It's not about you when I'm getting a little bit shity. sorry for any misunderstanding. I could have been the way that I wrote it. The only thing I may be sort of disagree with would be the Assumption made about Griefers. I'm not exactly sure what they're full motivation can be but it may just be their version of fun. I don't necessarily know if they've been beaten or not LOL but if they have been beaten I wouldn't go announcing that to everybody in the community that they were abused children LOL
Finally, a reasonable comment in this comment section
I used to play in open but one day, while I finally made my way from Maia back to Deciat with a single piece of meta-alloy, I got ganked. I continued my session by mining peacefully inside the rings on the night side of a gas giant but I never went to open ever again after this session.
I have survived every gank attempt in this game. I only get that special adrenal fix when I can't afford to lose. Almost lost my first anaconda because of insufficient funds. They even continued firing into the station.
I stay in private mainly. Because I'm working on upgrading my ships with the Thargoids being back.
Gfy bud
Very well put my man, it’s a pleasure to listen to you speak! There will always be bad manners, but I still think that elite should become dangerous: if you venture into an anarchy system as a new player you should not expect to get out alive, whereas a trader in a high sec system should have fighter escorts automatically assigned that would defeat virtually any ganker attack by players.
And an explorer going to Deciat should NOT expect to be killed for no reason. Your argument is weak. You're talking about legitimate gameplay: anarchy systems are supposed to be dangerous lawless lands, and trading should be a high-risk, high-reward endeavour. This is NOT the problem. The problem is random people killing players for no reason and suffering no consequences.
@@Giby86 Fdev’s error was to place the noob engineer base in a medium security system. Gankers will gank, it happens in all MMOs. What if deciat was high sec and high sec actually meant something?
@@captpugwash8915 So explorers are now "noobs"? Nice gatekeeping. Also, high security doesn't do much and we all know it. There are no real consequences, because the ONE thing the system uses to punish players is money. And we all know that money is virtually infinite if you're a veteran.
@@Giby86 take it easy, I’m certainly not saying explorers are noobs, it doesn’t even make sense. For the record, I don’t gank myself and have done plenty of exploring. I was just stating that ganking could be made a lot more difficult with a properly designed C&P system.
@@Giby86 he's saying that the first engineer system will attract newer players, which is fair
Just out of curiosity does "Ganking" apply to other games, cause Battlefront 2 sure as hell feels like it has Ganking.
The word ganking usually implies that the person doing the ganking has a huge advantage over the other person, usually as a consequence of a persistently developing online advancement. Most games try to avoid this happening to low level players by having either completely separate "starting" areas with no pvp, or tiered systems where you only meet threats of a similar level.
Flew a long way out in a diamondback scout to buy one tonne of meta alloys to start unlocking engineers. Got all the way back and was interdicted in said system and splatted in seconds by a Mamba. As a newbie it was immensely upsetting.
I never go in open because of this.
Imo, power doesn't corrupt - it just reveals your true self. When you insert certain people into no-consequence environments like Elite Dangerous and GTA Online, many of them feel empowered, because they no longer have to suppress the desires that society punishes them for. A lot of griefers, gankers & trolls will say things like "Chill out, it's just a game" when you confront them. Yes, it's just a game, but it says a lot about you as a person that in a world where you can do anything, & fulfill your deepest fantasy, you've chosen to spread misery.
By the title I was thinking this was going to be about the ED Forums!
Fortunately only got ganked once, technically twice. First trip to Colonia in an unarmed DBX, fortunate i made the station. Heading out a well armed Krait killed me in the no fire zone. After i respawned he tried again, fortunately I made the jump out. I took the first one in stride, the second was just cheap.
Very very well said. I totally agree with all of the above. Cheers bud
Got it so Ganker in Deciat on Saturday and Griefer in Boran yesterday.
I am at least glad that FDev has the forethought to include Solo mode and blocking so that you can deal with these types of bad manners.
Wahow, I appreciated how you make the loop of this "issue". I hated those bad manners and had to play solo for my early months in game but slowly changed my mind about gankers, griefers...once I was fully engineered and the game started to be a bit more balanced for me. This video describes exactly what steps I had to cross to accept this part of the PVP. Will share it. great job cmdr O7
Yeah? So this means the only possible way to play open is being in the endgame, and fly a combat capable ship? Realize what you're saying: you're saying that new players should be bullied into playing solo. You're saying that explorers have no place in open.
@@Giby86 no YOU are saying it dude. I just explain how things turned for me in the game, but in any case I say : people should do this or that, you say it.
To answer you : every single expedition is happening in private group (mostly fleetcom).
So what do you suggest ?
@@Giby86 I would say : better to be engineered to play open. And again I’ve never used the word « combat ship ».
All my ships are ready to be attacked in open : trading, mining, explorers... that’s it.
@@cmdrmaskime Yes. But that's an unreasonable expectation. If I build an exploration ship correctly, it cannot be ready to be attacked, not by gankers anyway. If I were to put enough bulk on my Asp to survive, it wouldn't be an effective explorer.
And again, I can't stress this enough: this is BULLYING. What you're saying is the equivalent of saying to a boy who got beaten up "hey kid, either you go to the gym and man up, or you play in your own backyard", which is disgusting.
@@Giby86 man I only talked about MY experience and the steps I HAD to come throughout my early experience.
Again explain us how we should play it rather than criticising the way I played it !?
Tell me we can do pvp with people with a new account and stock ship ?
About exploration, some players will agree that maxed out jump range is not requiered as we usually explore in economical routes. Take a look at Mission farsight, they are out in the black since 5 years ago, with 35 ly jump range but shield tanked for High G landing and eventually : player attack.
There is not ONE way to play the game, people are just free to play it the way they want.
If you like the rain you have to deal with the mud too.
Powerplay killings are legitimate. The game even rewards the player without punishment. I feel too many players toss the term "griefer" around without fully understanding the game or the consequences for pledging.
The word ENEMY in big, bold, red letters on your ship holds significance in the game. I dont care if youre module shopping or if you have no weapons. You made the choice to pledge. End of story.
Lol I remember the first time I got killed because of powerplay, I didn’t know what pledging meant or why you do it, but I was certainly taught my lessons when I flew into federation space on accident!
Exactly, i killed an aspx pledged to Hudson, my CMDRs rp enemy, and he got mad. i said before pulling you you shouldn’t have pledged to him idc what your reason is. He was in an expansion system too.
I only fly in Open if what I'm doing can impact other players. For instance, BGS or Power Play. Otherwise, Fleetcomm PG.
I play open but very rarely do I run into gankers. In fact I ran into gankers once. 2 asp explorers interdicted me and attacked when I was flying towards some back water station no one goes towards. I just engineered my FDL so I ended up killing the first player his buddy was about dead when he caught me off guard with a body slam. Turns out it is effective to use an asp explorer as a battering ram. Sent the dude a message saying “let’s call it a draw”
i've been filling the role of a pirate since the game release.
when i see a player i feel an insane rush of excitement and its what makes the game fun for me.
this little player interaction is what makes the game for me. and i strive to be known on the forums as the number 1 pirate of the game.
its a shame the game has so little players for such a big world, because i barely play it anymore due to the rare player interactions.
And here is me, playing the game for about 2 months and the only other player I've ever met was someone I crashed into while manually undocking. I did not even realise it was another player until an hour later when I noticed that he had apologised for being in the way in chat :D
I'm for open mode but with a higher price for the griefer to pay ( maybe a high bounty placed on them) so the grieved would have some type of balancing toward their favor. I think it gives the griefer more excitement and more responsibility for their actions.
FDEV in order to remain relevant and profitable over the next year as well as any space MMO must adopt eve online proven methods to deal with this part of the game. The lack of punishment from any form of mindless killing in controlled space is ridiculous. There should be exceptions for specific things but to sit in Jameson memorial and club baby seals for the sake of it with no real punishment needs to result in a real crime and punishment system implemented in to the game. Remove private and solo all together. The whole concept of being able to play in a diffrent reality that affects things as a whole and be completely protected is laziness......for fdev to say solo and private was implemented for any other reason then their lack of effort to creating a real crime and punishment system is a flat out lie.
you shouldnt be a baby seal if you have access to jamison...
if they remove solo i will quit i don't need other players removing my enjoyment of the game
I enjoy the people who gank in Shinrarta. I've never met any tryhard FDLs; they tend to have really creative and silly builds that make me laugh (like a shieldless DBX full of forceshell cannons). They're always a good sport and it's how I met a lot of cool people in the game.
I remember one time. I tried to sell Diamonds and there was an FDL in my system. It was also my first time trying to mine something. I saw he was behind me. He then texted me "Hello Pirate here". And i was damn angry. I said "cmon man I'm a noob". He just said "you are complaining without getting pulled xD". Then he did not do anything to me. He just carried on and probably had a laugh about this.
my first ever interdiction by a player said, if i did a thing for them they would give me a void opal. i wasn't interested as i was just doing my space trucker thing and had a full hold of cargo. so apparently i "chose death" and him and his buddy just blew me up in 2 seconds flat. this taught me the valuable lesson to never fly anything you can't buy back and to play solo if you aren't part of the git gud squad of players that like combat XD. the only thing i was angry about there was me actually being friendly to the fucker as i was being played for a chump.
my solution to players is a cutter with max shields and max thrusters. if u cant fight em out run em. cutter cant be mas-locked to so thats a nice bonus if ur dealing with someone cocky in an anaconda. i was ganked onces when i 1st bought an expensive ship and selected what i thought at the time was some big missions. i got a fine and lost almost all my money
Being humiliated seems to be a core mechanic in gaming. How fun is that?
I’ve only been ganked once, needless to say I got very good at evading interdictions and just leaving the system for every other encounter I’ve had
Protip: self destruct if you get interdicted in a helpless situation. Don't give them the satisfaction
noted :D
i live in a timezone where open is deserted i only ever really met commanders in a cobra Mk3s
ive only interacted with 2 people meaningfully. THANKS AUSTRALIAN TIME ZONES
The problem with ED is the ships have laser guns that don't deplete fuel supply when being fired. Boosting also doesn't have any fuel penalty. Shields can stay powered on without any fuel penalties. Fuel penalties to make systems energy could discourage griefing.
Except they do, your fuel consumption per hour increases if your hardpoints are deployed in addition to your modules demanding more power (class, engineering upgrades, and rating have an effect on power draw).
@@PhantomXT I have never noticed it. The rate isn't significant enough to make an impact in how you would decide what to do in regards to combat piloting. Frontier just nerfs modules like weapons which cancels the reward of progression from the grind you had to do to upgrade. This I have certainly noticed. Significant fuel consumption could discourage unnecessary combat griefing and also FD's constant nerf hammering of module upgrades. Making fuel usage higher for boosting, shield usage and weapons would make combat and also module spec choices more realistic and interesting.
I remember a dude that made it a point to lure and kill fuel rats.