Mike don't sweat that guy. When Burgess did those podcasts with Gary he kept condescending on Gary and the tone of his voice became increasingly hostile and frustrated. I dropped multiple comments criticizing not only his teaching but his attitude! I concluded and said in one such comment that "Mr. Burgess was a angry man." And he is a bitter angry man. I also commented and said "Hey Kim when did Heaven become a dirty word" and other such comments! Mr. Burgess doesn't even explain things clearly! His teaching is confusing and pure obfuscation. On the contrary Gary Demar is much better at explaining things. p.s. It is my personal belief that Gary is not a Post-millennialist anymore and is simply undeclared categorically. He probably leans Full-Preterism but is taking a silence and neutral but open position.
I think Gary wants to work through all the scriptures faithfully and not declare a label bc the labels are dividing and paralyzing the working out of the scriptures for the truth. This paralysis an individual’s ego and integrity issue, declaring heretics of faithful men who are all trying to work the scriptures out faithfully. The “heretic” label is becoming a lazy egotistical debate ending virtue signal weapon in the way the “racist” label has.
Prayers. We know by their fruits. Fruits is not theology...it is an attitude of thankfullness and long suffering. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law" I love jumping around trying to find the "true theologies" I appreciate those like you and Don who have the fruits, while defending debating any certain theology.
Michael, it’s a extremely difficult thing to go against everything you have been taught for years to accept something ,that is according to our early church fathers unorthodox. I know I’m going thru this myself and it’s been the hardest thing I have ever done,not being able to sleep,eat,learning you’ve been wrong your whole entire life is not an easy pill to swallow. Please be patient,God is working to change us but it’s an agonizing slow pace and we don’t want to get this wrong.
Where has Kim slandered you Mike? I’m curious. I’ve listened to all those podcasts he did with Gary DeMar and can’t remember hearing anything in any of them. I can’t find anything on the net. Has it been privately?
Part of this is just young-earth creationism in Genesis crossed with Full Preterism. Full book review of Volume 2 with analysis and critique: th-cam.com/video/Obn3KXAK2Xo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=IUVQJ6RtPP_ioBWV
Agreed, Tim. Both Covenant Creation and Fulfilled Eschatology are, in my opinion, the two bookends to the Gospel. I am still learning (and re-leanring) to read God's Word through these respective lenses. Slowly but surely, the Gospel becomes more clear, the resolution of God's salvation more defined.
Well done! Excellent response. Truth does not fear scrutiny. It’s disappointing that people who claim logic/consistency resolve to name calling and not debating in good faith. Humility is lacking.
Oh look the other guy who compromised and tried to combine Futurist Postmillennialism and Full Preterism that crashed and burned just showed up (Sam Frost). Sam eventually was consistent and was a complete sell-out to Futurism. Sam wants to be perpetually known as a "scholar" (no matter where he goes) and name-drop with all of the Futurist "scholars" so he became a sell-out. Now he gets the attention of the "scholars" he couldn't as a Full Preterist. And Ed and Kim want to try and hijack Full Preterism and hope no one notices. Lol. The ignorant arrogance, compromise, and pure hate of these men will be their downfall. What do all three have in common - they curse me and claim I'm not a Christian. Well, let God be God and deal with the three of them as He sees fit.
17:53 I do not see that passage as "very very clear" It is not clarified by Jesus when the disciples ask privately and its word picture is strikingly different. Can you explain how the seed becomes the "largest of the garden plants and becomes a tree"? I understood there was only a remnant left (lets say 1/3) and we had a turning away before the "day of the lord". This language seems to imply that the world (ie birds) will come and depend on what the Kingdom provides (ie resting on their branches) since it is the largest of all the plants. In your system can you explain in what way the birds are resting on the branches of the kingdom at the day of the Lord? Thanks.
The "leaven" is the gospel being spread throughout the Roman Empire and thus the Church "bearing forth fruit in all the world." The Tree having become full grown and matured in AD 70, now has the birds coming to nest and make their home there which is another way of saying the nations are coming into the NJ and being "healed" through the gospel (Rev. 22:2, 17).
Whoever believes in the gospel of Jesus Christ must do so as a full preterist in order to make the good news of God's love visible to all people. For Christ's work of redemption was fulfilled between 30 and 70 AD in the heavenly Jerusalem of the community of all believers in Christ in his glorious presence of his spiritual kingdom! Blessings
100% Correct. Any other Futurist teaching makes a mockery out of the completed work of Christ and is ultimately blasphemous! Great observation and comment 👍
Totally reject postmill and theonomy… you clearly have to use eisegesis to form that position so it is to be rejected! Thanks for your ministry Mike 🙌🏻
As a full preterist, I believe all nations will eventually be Christian according to the Scriptures. Here is just one of many Bible passages that say so; "All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations shall worship before You. For Kingship belongs to the LORD, and he rules over the nations. All the prosperous of the earth eat and worship; before Him shall bow all who go down to the dust, even the one who could not keep himself alive. Posterity shall serve Him; it shall be told of the Lord to the coming generation; they shall come and proclaim His righteousness to a people yet unborn, that He has done it." Psalm 22:27-31 Peace my brother. God bless you and your ministry.
I actually listened to a few episodes with Gary and Kim when they first started but it was so confusing and convoluted i stopped. I realized later that he was trying to marry postmill and FP together which is incompatible mush. I think his goal is to trick people into falling back to their old false theology of a future second coming.
As sad as this is to say- it honestly seems like just another failed attempt to somehow simultaneously stay true to the texts while desperately trying to stay within “orthodoxy.”
You might be correct. But as I commented on one of Gary's videos "if we are to fear orthodoxy or creeds how did the reformers break from Roman Catholicism?" I'm not attacking Catholics. Many are likely saved and our brother and sisters in Christ. But the principle here is clear. I said in a video I'm not interested in going along to get along. Rather I'm interested in the truth! And I am!
@ Amen. The truth is really what matters and is why I’ll continue to defend it. It’s just extremely sad to me that FP is basically treated as stage IV cancer within the Christian community. Completely unjustified but it doesn’t really matter when they outnumber us exponentially. I do hope it will continue to spread tho as I don’t see partial preterists or dispy’s making any great progress anytime soon.
You obviously have not seen Kim’s remarks to those of us who signed the letter to Gary. He called us creedolaters for upholding orthodoxy. Neither he nor Gary give a rats behind about orthodoxy. The only thing Kim cares about is Kim.
At ad 70 yes the end of the age but also at that point Jesus sits on his throne in judgement bringing a refining of souls until now and ongoing till all souls are processed
@@ulsterscot No incorrect. Mr. Burgess is not a Full-Preterist. He believes Jesus Christ will return yet a 3rd time on earth physically and will Reign in some bizarre kind of Heaven On Earth Paradise. That is not Full-Preterism. In Full-Preterism our home is ultimately in Heaven! And no Heaven is not a non-physical ghostly ethereal existence of mere consciousness in God's head. That thinking is like a Gnostic or Buddhist Nirvana or a Hindu Brahma. That is NOT Full-Preterism! Full-Preterism teaches we will be transformed and get a glorified body that is physical. But it will NOT be a earthly physical body like what we have now that is made of flesh and blood! But beyond that not much else is known! And I'll tell you that sounds awesome to me! To think the Lord has set up a place for us in eternity where I'll get to be with the Lord and my past loved ones forever is like "what more do you want???!" Think about what I said wow
He is extremely confusing. Reminds me of that Bible quack Joel Richardson that believes a Islamic Antichrist is going to show up! Every End Times teacher that comes up with these novel fantasy or science fiction teaching bring with it a boatload of confusion and nonsense that makes zero sense and is almost always no where to be found in scripture
At 13:15 you (Mike) asserted that I (Ed Stevens) was "bought off" (bribed) to defend the physical rapture view. That is a false accusation and slander. On the contrary, Garrett Brown challenged me to refute Russell’s rapture view. I accepted the challenge. However, in the midst of exegetically analyzing 1Thes 4:13-18, I realized that Paul was comforting those Thessalonian saints in their grief over the loss of some of their fellow members in the recent persecution. Paul promised them a REAL EXPERIENTIAL REUNION with their departed loved ones at the Parousia. And since we know that those dead saints did not come back to life in the SEEN realm on earth, it necessarily means that the living saints must have been changed and taken into the UNSEEN realm to be reunited with their resurrected loved ones. Once I understood what Paul was promising those Thessalonian saints, I was hooked. Garrett Brown’s money had nothing whatsoever to do with it. It was all about what the biblical text actually teaches. Nothing more, nothing less. Mike, you are judging the motives of Garrett Brown and Ed Stevens. You do not know our hearts. You are not qualified to be our judge. Only God is. You need to withdraw your false accusations and slander, and apologize.
If you think the Church on planet earth with their bodies disappearing from the earth in AD 70 isn't a PHYSICAL fulfillment - you have serious issues. Lord help you. If that is what is meant by "will never die" in John 8 and John 11, then I guess those of us who believe in Jesus today and "never die" aren't REALLY getting the REAL promise of eternal life - because you just defined it as flying off planet earth and not physically dying! So does Jesus' promise of "never being hungry" or "never being thirsty" entail a perpetual Buffett?!!!!!? I'm sorry, but you have to have a screw loose to believe this garbage!!!!! It has NOTHING to do with Full Preterism. Ed and Kim Burgess have this in common: 1). They want to claim and hijack Full Preterism for themselves. 2). Since they can't really defend their views, it is easier to just curse everyone else in the CBV community as teaching "another gospel" and allegedly being cursed from the Tree of Life. 3). Since they are exegetically shallow, they try and make up for it with their empty zealous cursings upon Full Preterists. 4). They constantly claim everyone is "misrepresenting" their views and their views are just too intelligent or "nuanced" for your average Joe to figure out. UGH! I have run out of patience with both of these men. They have both tried to curse me and other brothers in Christ as "teaching another gospel" - let's leave it in God's hands and see what happens as a result.
A big problem with preterist is, when Mike and Don say JESUS DID NOT COME to receive them as he promised,,,,Don says The LORD HIMSELF did not come,,,every eye did not see him come,,they saw an army and thats it,,,,s m h
Full Preterism is not a personal experience. It is a explanation. I'm looking forward to going to Heaven aren't you? Imagine being with the Lord, past loved ones in Christ, the Saints, Heavenly Host and of course a reality that's vastly superior to this earthly one... Is this a bad thing? I don't get some of you guys
Shouldn't a reading of Genesis 5 describes the effect of Noah removing the curse of the ground. Then what God says he won't do again in Genesis 8. Curse the ground. So ther are many who want to ignore those powerful passages. If the ground was still cursed, our farming would never produce as we produce today anywhere. Kim has a very poor approach evidently lacking humility.
Mike don't sweat that guy. When Burgess did those podcasts with Gary he kept condescending on Gary and the tone of his voice became increasingly hostile and frustrated. I dropped multiple comments criticizing not only his teaching but his attitude! I concluded and said in one such comment that "Mr. Burgess was a angry man." And he is a bitter angry man.
I also commented and said "Hey Kim when did Heaven become a dirty word" and other such comments!
Mr. Burgess doesn't even explain things clearly! His teaching is confusing and pure obfuscation. On the contrary Gary Demar is much better at explaining things.
p.s. It is my personal belief that Gary is not a Post-millennialist anymore and is simply undeclared categorically. He probably leans Full-Preterism but is taking a silence and neutral but open position.
I think Gary wants to work through all the scriptures faithfully and not declare a label bc the labels are dividing and paralyzing the working out of the scriptures for the truth. This paralysis an individual’s ego and integrity issue, declaring heretics of faithful men who are all trying to work the scriptures out faithfully. The “heretic” label is becoming a lazy egotistical debate ending virtue signal weapon in the way the “racist” label has.
@@andreastarks2780Yep you are right 👍
"The time of fulfillment determines the nature of fulfillment." Excellent.
where in the real world does that ever ever work?
@elishasbones604 That's the problem... FP doesn't work
Prayers. We know by their fruits. Fruits is not theology...it is an attitude of thankfullness and long suffering. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law"
I love jumping around trying to find the "true theologies" I appreciate those like you and Don who have the fruits, while defending debating any certain theology.
Michael, it’s a extremely difficult thing to go against everything you have been taught for years to accept something ,that is according to our early church fathers unorthodox. I know I’m going thru this myself and it’s been the hardest thing I have ever done,not being able to sleep,eat,learning you’ve been wrong your whole entire life is not an easy pill to swallow. Please be patient,God is working to change us but it’s an agonizing slow pace and we don’t want to get this wrong.
Good form, brother!😉
Where has Kim slandered you Mike? I’m curious. I’ve listened to all those podcasts he did with Gary DeMar and can’t remember hearing anything in any of them. I can’t find anything on the net. Has it been privately?
Part of this is just young-earth creationism in Genesis crossed with Full Preterism.
Full book review of Volume 2 with analysis and critique:
th-cam.com/video/Obn3KXAK2Xo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=IUVQJ6RtPP_ioBWV
Agreed, Tim. Both Covenant Creation and Fulfilled Eschatology are, in my opinion, the two bookends to the Gospel. I am still learning (and re-leanring) to read God's Word through these respective lenses. Slowly but surely, the Gospel becomes more clear, the resolution of God's salvation more defined.
Well done! Excellent response. Truth does not fear scrutiny. It’s disappointing that people who claim logic/consistency resolve to name calling and not debating in good faith. Humility is lacking.
So, Kim is not with Gary.....is with Gary? Not with Mike? Didn't they just publish two volumes? Confused yet?
No! Kim is a Post-millennial Futurist! Gary is somewhat neutral and asking questions. Mike is Full-Preterist.
the kettles are all black.. lol
I’ve read the first volume but not the second. Any thoughts from one or both?
looks like I need to give you a call so you can catch me up on all this drama lol :D
Oh look the other guy who compromised and tried to combine Futurist Postmillennialism and Full Preterism that crashed and burned just showed up (Sam Frost). Sam eventually was consistent and was a complete sell-out to Futurism. Sam wants to be perpetually known as a "scholar" (no matter where he goes) and name-drop with all of the Futurist "scholars" so he became a sell-out. Now he gets the attention of the "scholars" he couldn't as a Full Preterist. And Ed and Kim want to try and hijack Full Preterism and hope no one notices. Lol. The ignorant arrogance, compromise, and pure hate of these men will be their downfall. What do all three have in common - they curse me and claim I'm not a Christian. Well, let God be God and deal with the three of them as He sees fit.
17:53 I do not see that passage as "very very clear" It is not clarified by Jesus when the disciples ask privately and its word picture is strikingly different. Can you explain how the seed becomes the "largest of the garden plants and becomes a tree"? I understood there was only a remnant left (lets say 1/3) and we had a turning away before the "day of the lord". This language seems to imply that the world (ie birds) will come and depend on what the Kingdom provides (ie resting on their branches) since it is the largest of all the plants. In your system can you explain in what way the birds are resting on the branches of the kingdom at the day of the Lord? Thanks.
The "leaven" is the gospel being spread throughout the Roman Empire and thus the Church "bearing forth fruit in all the world." The Tree having become full grown and matured in AD 70, now has the birds coming to nest and make their home there which is another way of saying the nations are coming into the NJ and being "healed" through the gospel (Rev. 22:2, 17).
So Mike, are you CC?
Regardless of the dissenters, thanks for your courage to engage and debate theological matters. The truth must be mind and refined.
Whoever believes in the gospel of Jesus Christ must do so as a full preterist in order to make the good news of God's love visible to all people. For Christ's work of redemption was fulfilled between 30 and 70 AD in the heavenly Jerusalem of the community of all believers in Christ in his glorious presence of his spiritual kingdom! Blessings
100% Correct. Any other Futurist teaching makes a mockery out of the completed work of Christ and is ultimately blasphemous!
Great observation and comment 👍
Totally reject postmill and theonomy… you clearly have to use eisegesis to form that position so it is to be rejected! Thanks for your ministry Mike 🙌🏻
As a full preterist, I believe all nations will eventually be Christian according to the Scriptures. Here is just one of many Bible passages that say so;
"All the ends of the earth shall remember
and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
shall worship before You.
For Kingship belongs to the LORD,
and he rules over the nations.
All the prosperous of the earth eat and worship;
before Him shall bow all who go down to the dust,
even the one who could not keep himself alive.
Posterity shall serve Him;
it shall be told of the Lord to the coming generation;
they shall come and proclaim His righteousness to a people yet unborn,
that He has done it."
Psalm 22:27-31
Peace my brother. God bless you and your ministry.
I actually listened to a few episodes with Gary and Kim when they first started but it was so confusing and convoluted i stopped. I realized later that he was trying to marry postmill and FP together which is incompatible mush. I think his goal is to trick people into falling back to their old false theology of a future second coming.
Yep, Sir hate to say but you nailed 100% spot on 👍!
I hope Gary doesn't get looped into it.
Bravo, you have been very patient. Keep up the Godly work.
I noticed Kim would not let Spencer speak for both interviews.
Where are these interviews please?
@ th-cam.com/video/CcQltIN8Ag4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=pvYhU4k5UsnPJaxw
@ Thank you.
Yes Mike there is a scripture. 1 Corinthians 15:25..He must reign till all enemies put under his feet
Yes Mike there is a scripture it is 1 Corinthians 15:25-58, He must reign until all enemies put under his feet
Ignore the mockers and scoffers, brother. As every Christian knows, nothing anyone says about us is as bad as the truth.
Kim is honestly a clown.
It's sad to see Spencer hitch his wagon to Kim's for the simple reason that Kim's demeanor is ungentlemanly. Kim is sour and ungracious.
Spencer who please?
@thecanberean Spencer Smith but not the more well known dispensationalist one. This Spencer has a YT channel called Son of Man.
@ Thank you.
As sad as this is to say- it honestly seems like just another failed attempt to somehow simultaneously stay true to the texts while desperately trying to stay within “orthodoxy.”
You might be correct. But as I commented on one of Gary's videos "if we are to fear orthodoxy or creeds how did the reformers break from Roman Catholicism?"
I'm not attacking Catholics. Many are likely saved and our brother and sisters in Christ. But the principle here is clear. I said in a video I'm not interested in going along to get along. Rather I'm interested in the truth! And I am!
Catholics are not Christians..they are Catholics. No such thing in the New Testament as a Catholic Christian.
@ Amen. The truth is really what matters and is why I’ll continue to defend it. It’s just extremely sad to me that FP is basically treated as stage IV cancer within the Christian community. Completely unjustified but it doesn’t really matter when they outnumber us exponentially. I do hope it will continue to spread tho as I don’t see partial preterists or dispy’s making any great progress anytime soon.
Thank you, Michael, for standing for the truth of Scripture.
You obviously have not seen Kim’s remarks to those of us who signed the letter to Gary. He called us creedolaters for upholding orthodoxy. Neither he nor Gary give a rats behind about orthodoxy. The only thing Kim cares about is Kim.
At ad 70 yes the end of the age but also at that point Jesus sits on his throne in judgement bringing a refining of souls until now and ongoing till all souls are processed
FP starts gaining steam and getting the truth out there and some weirdo always has to come in and try and derail it. Classic.
Exactly 👍
“Imprecatory prayers” against Mike 😂😂
I agree, I listened to that series with him and Gary. I really had a hard time following and listening to him.
This was a great synopsis Mike 👌
Mike prayed an imprecatory prayer against me.....rofl
Kim is a FP …but does enough to avoid being called a FP.
@@ulsterscot No incorrect. Mr. Burgess is not a Full-Preterist. He believes Jesus Christ will return yet a 3rd time on earth physically and will Reign in some bizarre kind of Heaven On Earth Paradise. That is not Full-Preterism. In Full-Preterism our home is ultimately in Heaven! And no Heaven is not a non-physical ghostly ethereal existence of mere consciousness in God's head. That thinking is like a Gnostic or Buddhist Nirvana or a Hindu Brahma. That is NOT Full-Preterism! Full-Preterism teaches we will be transformed and get a glorified body that is physical. But it will NOT be a earthly physical body like what we have now that is made of flesh and blood! But beyond that not much else is known! And I'll tell you that sounds awesome to me! To think the Lord has set up a place for us in eternity where I'll get to be with the Lord and my past loved ones forever is like "what more do you want???!"
Think about what I said wow
I find Kim very confusing.
He is extremely confusing. Reminds me of that Bible quack Joel Richardson that believes a Islamic Antichrist is going to show up!
Every End Times teacher that comes up with these novel fantasy or science fiction teaching bring with it a boatload of confusion and nonsense that makes zero sense and is almost always no where to be found in scripture
At 13:15 you (Mike) asserted that I (Ed Stevens) was "bought off" (bribed) to defend the physical rapture view. That is a false accusation and slander. On the contrary, Garrett Brown challenged me to refute Russell’s rapture view. I accepted the challenge. However, in the midst of exegetically analyzing 1Thes 4:13-18, I realized that Paul was comforting those Thessalonian saints in their grief over the loss of some of their fellow members in the recent persecution. Paul promised them a REAL EXPERIENTIAL REUNION with their departed loved ones at the Parousia. And since we know that those dead saints did not come back to life in the SEEN realm on earth, it necessarily means that the living saints must have been changed and taken into the UNSEEN realm to be reunited with their resurrected loved ones. Once I understood what Paul was promising those Thessalonian saints, I was hooked. Garrett Brown’s money had nothing whatsoever to do with it. It was all about what the biblical text actually teaches. Nothing more, nothing less. Mike, you are judging the motives of Garrett Brown and Ed Stevens. You do not know our hearts. You are not qualified to be our judge. Only God is. You need to withdraw your false accusations and slander, and apologize.
If you think the Church on planet earth with their bodies disappearing from the earth in AD 70 isn't a PHYSICAL fulfillment - you have serious issues. Lord help you. If that is what is meant by "will never die" in John 8 and John 11, then I guess those of us who believe in Jesus today and "never die" aren't REALLY getting the REAL promise of eternal life - because you just defined it as flying off planet earth and not physically dying! So does Jesus' promise of "never being hungry" or "never being thirsty" entail a perpetual Buffett?!!!!!? I'm sorry, but you have to have a screw loose to believe this garbage!!!!! It has NOTHING to do with Full Preterism. Ed and Kim Burgess have this in common:
1). They want to claim and hijack Full Preterism for themselves.
2). Since they can't really defend their views, it is easier to just curse everyone else in the CBV community as teaching "another gospel" and allegedly being cursed from the Tree of Life.
3). Since they are exegetically shallow, they try and make up for it with their empty zealous cursings upon Full Preterists.
4). They constantly claim everyone is "misrepresenting" their views and their views are just too intelligent or "nuanced" for your average Joe to figure out. UGH!
I have run out of patience with both of these men. They have both tried to curse me and other brothers in Christ as "teaching another gospel" - let's leave it in God's hands and see what happens as a result.
A big problem with preterist is, when Mike and Don say
JESUS DID NOT COME to receive them as he promised,,,,Don says The LORD HIMSELF did not come,,,every eye did not see him come,,they saw an army and thats it,,,,s m h
A child can play in the snake thing. I like that.
The wooden literalism of that is nonsense.
@GRXMotorsPNW why don't you mind your own business??
@@wheatandchaff-z6s Mind my own business? Is this not a public platform and forum?
Whatever...
@GRXMotorsPNW like I said. Mind your own business.
There is no FP unless your already dead and in heaven where there is no more pain tears 😭.
Full Preterism is not a personal experience. It is a explanation. I'm looking forward to going to Heaven aren't you? Imagine being with the Lord, past loved ones in Christ, the Saints, Heavenly Host and of course a reality that's vastly superior to this earthly one... Is this a bad thing? I don't get some of you guys
Full preterism doesn’t say what happens next after ad 70
Get Saved, Spread The Good News of Salvation and Go To Heaven for eternity! What more do you want???
Shouldn't a reading of Genesis 5 describes the effect of Noah removing the curse of the ground.
Then what God says he won't do again in Genesis 8. Curse the ground.
So ther are many who want to ignore those powerful passages.
If the ground was still cursed, our farming would never produce as we produce today anywhere.
Kim has a very poor approach evidently lacking humility.
All these petty squabbles makes Christianity look more and more like a man-made religion. It seems God has not given sufficient revelation.
Ugh
What a load of full preterism Krapp
Great argument there!