The Roman salute actually has its origin in "The Oath of the Horatii", a 18th Century french painting that shows three romans raising their hands. Considering Mussolini's passion for neoclassical art, it would not be surprising that he created the f4scist/roman salute inspired by that painting
@TetsuShima By my understanding, he copied it from the film Cabiria, of which Gabriele D'Annunzio was a secondary writer (surprised HE took a secondary role for once), where it was indeed present. Now, where Giovanni Pastrone (main writer, director, and producer) and D'Annunzio got the idea... It was likely that painting. But if there's something from Fascist Italy whose origin you aren't sure of, blame D'Annunzio, he was usually involved in some way (and if he wasn't Mussolini had paid him some ridiculous bribe. Like the WARSHIP IN THE GARDEN to not ruin diplomatic talks with Germany).
@@cjmurphy7967 The worst part for me is not that it could happen, but that a large amount of people would defend it, incluing large newsanchors and podcasthosts
The worst part is he thinks he is so funny and smart and he thought he would get away with it. He probably thought to himself “epic trolling! le epic kek! Sneed”
Fun fact: Asterix and Obelix started being published in 1959; both its authors had lived through WW2. The "small village of indomitable gauls" was a stand-in for the Resistance, and one of the Roman centurions, Nebulus Nimbus, is a transparent caricature of Benito Mussolini.
Of course they were! Accurately depicted in series of movies. All the facts for the films were scrupulously selected following the secret Roman documents, hidden by scientists under the flat earth for the reasons everyone knows. Well, THOSE reasons.
15:47 just out of curiosity, i actually checked if chatgpt said those things when asked, and it said precisely what Metatron is saying in this video, that it's a 18th-19th century invention with no historical basis.
ChatGPT doesn't know anything by itself. It only regurgitates text that it finds on the web and restructures it in a way that sounds appropriate to the question asked. The quality of its responses depends directly on the quality of the texts it uses.
Yes, and the best part of it for me is when that Roman guard has him correct the Latin grammar in his forbidden graffiti instead of arresting him in this typical old-school Latin teacher style 😂 absolutely hilarious to my linguistic heart
@@hiromilongthe Monty python crew had a boarding school survivor among their number. I am sure that scene comes from personal experience with Latin teachers in British schools.
Also the most accurate depiction of Middle Eastern politics (from the Bronze Age to today), with the revolutionaries supposedly forming to fight the Romans, but actually spending most of their time fighting with each other.
i grew up in an area in Australia where there were many Italian migrants and their families, we used to joke that the only way to stop an Italian from speaking, was to hold his hands so they cant be moved , therefore preventing gesticulation
Here's another: Why was the Italian intelligence services rather good (and it was)? Because whenever an Italian spy was caught and tied down for questioning, he was incapable of talking.
Also Australian, I worked with an Italian guy and I asked about the "hand" thing. He basically said it's for emphasis and, as Italians were all dramatic, it caused lots of hand movement. He then said he noticed that Aussies talk with their head, nodding in a direction, gesturing a "come here" etc and he said he knows why. I said "I'll bite, why?" He said "Well, when you all first got here you were all wearing hand cuffs and heavy chains so you couldn't use your hands so you used your head"!
People from Romance-language countries can have a hard time in more Germanic cultures, because they miss the hugging and other physical contact, and they're often ridiculed for their hand gestures. It feels cold to them. But on the other side, the Germanic people can feel overwhelmed by all the touching and gesticulating. It's good to hang out together, and learn about other cultures! No need for ridicule. Just watch and learn.
Don’t forget the salute was used briefly in the US (described as early as 1892) until late 1942 in schools before being replaced by the right hand over the heart.
that is not correct. the Terran salute was fist on chest, then arm parallel to the ground and hand upraised (like you're saying "stop" with your hand). i don't know if Kurtzman later changed it to be a nazi salute because he's an idiot that never watched Star Trek, but it was 100% not a nazi salute in the 60s tv show.
My copy of Janson's History of Art states that gestures like that in the Prime Porta Augustus display a common position that a Roman might display when making a speech.
A point on touching the armor while wearing it: police and troops can often be seen placing a hand at the collar of a ballistic vest. Some stuff never changes.
I wear body armour (outer carrier) everyday for work. Everyone's hands are either on their collar or on their chest under the armor (especially when's it's cold). The other natural position is resting your hand on your sidearm but I train not to do that in public, looks bad.
@psycomutt good call on the side arm. I've found myself resting my hands on the collar of my plate carrier more than a couple times, and I don't even wear it regularly or in a professional capacity.
Watch American football. They hook their hands onto the top of their "armor" all the time. I worked in construction and wearing the very heavy nail/tool bags around the waist does give one a sense of being powerful. Carrying around the tools to create or destroy a building is actually powerful.
@@792slayer it's weird that you just naturally do that when wearing armor. Eventually I'll own a Lorica Segmentata and find out if the Romans had the same thing, lol.
In the watched an old pre-war film where the kids were all saluting, arms outstretched and decided to try it next time my 5th grade class recited the pledge. It did not go over well with my war veteran teacher but he forgave me when he found out my source and my Innocence.
You should tell your teacher to stop acting so laughable about human arm positions. It's illogical and frankly makes him look more childish than the child itself.
@@DontThinkso-kb9tc It doesn't matter. That's the attitude you should have anyway. Humans are far too childish with their inane dictatorial social rules.
@@avatarion You remind me of my younger self. I hope that you mature and realize that it's childish to bring up how "logical" people act. Do yourself a favor and seek out other perspectives, ask why people would do something; hint: it isn't because they're lesser than you.
i have always remembered that sentence since highschool but never thought much about it.. i heard it from a rap song' lil romeo - you can't shine like me '.. first 5 seconds.
Even if the Roman salute was real you could still make the argument of “riddle me this? What far more well known salute is derived from the Roman salute?”
@@invaderzod8092 You would have to be a mental defective to think green energy electric car space travel future of human kind elon musk is a funny moustache man. The rhetoric is so absurd it hurts to think people are actually that gullible.
An Italian not using their hands? BLASPHEMY! As a retired soldier, yeah touching the armor is self soothing. We used to put our hands under the shoulder straps to give us the feeling of relief from the weight. It didn't but it was psychosomatic.
I played a cop in a friend's student film. The local police were nice enough to let us use their real uniforms. I found myself doing this even though I had never worn a uniform, armor, or tactical/utility belt of any kind before. Thumbs hooked either under the armor up near the shoulders or on the front of the belt. My friend thought I had been watching and copying the gestures of police in videos, but I didn't even notice I was doing it. Also, I am only 25% Italian, but if you tied my hands behind my back I would probably develop a stutter, lol.
Excellent debunking my friend. This debate has caused me to lose so many brain cells telling people, there's no "Roman Salute". We can assume there were some kind of salutes/gestures used for military/govn't purposes, but without sources, we will never know for sure. What I have been seeing on the Internet is also the claim that there's no salutes whatsoever, not even gestures. Which is completely wrong, as human civilizations have used gestures/salutes/hand signals since before the invention of language! The Internet is a wild place.
In Ancient China they had their salutes in the army. In Ancient Egypt they had their head & hand gesture in the military. There's no reason why Ancient Romans didn't have their own salute. In any highly disciplined military structure you need to openly show you are paying respect and at attention.
@@noamto That is not a cons. - It heavily depends on the posts you made before. Made a lot of posts other people didn't like? Well, then good luck getting stuff like even the name of countries trough. Or just look at Metatrons video from roughly 1-2 weeks ago where he is talking about comments he gets. Take a very close look at a lot of them. Pause the video, then you can read every single one of them. Why did most of them not show up? What was problematic about them?
I think the Nod is a great example of historical gestures. The universal symbol for "Yes," a nod can mean "I understand" or "You're correct," and seems to be just about everywhere. I unfortunately know very little about (absolutely nothing) about how far back this gesture goes, but I assume at least to the very late 1800s. I know this isn't really related, but I thought I'd bring it up.
It doesn’t matter they hardly even have to do anything, the people run with it regardless, look at the amount of people in these comments that believe it 🤯 madness!
Honestly, I think he was trolling and meant nothing by it. But then again tell that to the group that attaches so much negativity and lingering hurt to that gesture. It was very insensitive, ignorant and childish of him. He deserves the fallout emanating from it.
You mentioned a painting from the 18th century but you never brought it up specifically. The oath of the Horatii by Jacques Louis David. I'd be curious to know how the artist got the idea for it.
Thank you. You can see what the Bellamy salute shows when you look at that painting. They’re swearing on the standard just as American children “swore” or pledged not only to bit on the flag.
He carried the gesture over into the painting of Emperor Napoleon distributing Eagles to the army three days after the coronation. Interestingly, the Emperor is shown with his arm at the same angle as the equestrian statue of Marcus Aurelius, and holding the sceptre with his other hand, much like Emperor Augustus must have been holding a spear in the Prima Porta statue. 🦁☀️🐝⚡🦅⚡🐝☀️🦁
I could not agree more. For me, I think it's option 2, if there is something that we know about this guys, is that, first, he is really smart, and second, he's been trolling ppl for a long time now. When a week or two passes and there is radio silent, I am waiting for this dude to "insult" someone bia X, and create some kind of drama that sells and is profitable for someone.
I always thought it was the reverse of the "other salute" where you start with your arm out as the "Hail" the slam your fist to your chest as the "Ceasar" ending with your fist against your chest. The "other" salute ends with your arm extended out.
as Italian and a descendants of the Samnites, your 100% correct , The salute is military salute using the right arm you point it forward ay angle you bring your right arm forming a fist and Hitting your left breast in fist hitting your heart ! (it means from the Gods above to my heart and Honor ) Let be known other nations in world during this time as well did this type of salute in China and Korea all way up to 2nd Korea war of 3 kingdoms ( not to be confused with China war of 3 kingdoms ) .
The thing I find most frustrating is that we will never know exactly what the salute was, despite it being so presumably common. It's frustrating that even with all the extant records we have that we'll always be missing things as regular as this
@@SteelStorm33 I am not referring to Musk, I'm referring to the actual Romans in antiquity. There are innumerous behaviors that we'll never know the exact appearance of. Roman soldiers DID salute, just as they had a formal method of march, of formation, etc. Some of them we know, but others we do not because they were never depicted or never discussed in any remaining texts. Metatron is not saying that Romans did not salute, he is saying the motion that has often been labeled as such is not a Roman salute.
@@Esauofisaac Is it because the ever changing emperors and the militaries were shuffling power too frequent that the uniform 'salute' is fictional due to disorder in the military? Imagine this; the protelriate guard keeps assassinating the emperor and the top general (I use it for modern term) keeps scheming to appease the Lord Emperor by offering marriage alliance. At this point-- many powers keep shuffling and generals playing musical chairs... the soldiers are like... so what is the greeting? A thought to ponder. What say you of my assumption?
@@ErikPT That's another factor to consider, after all Rome lasted several centuries, you can debate how much of that history was truly Roman but surely military and civilian greetings and customs changed repeatedly. Crazy to think that however much we know, there's so much we'll never even get a glimmer of.
The romans are usually pretty good at scribbling any sort of nonsense on their mind. The antique world has a lot of little moments when something was so familiar that it only referenced.
head cannon says the roman salute evolved as a gesture from raising a spear or lance as acknowledgement or show of respect. the act of raising a weapon over ones head seems a natural act in victory spread across a variety of cultures, to take the weapon out of the hand to make it a civilian gesture seems a natural enough adaptation. is there any iconography with a raised spear or sword? is there any documentation of such an act being used as a form of salute in roman history? would iconography or documentation of that justify calling a more modern standardized empty handed version "roman"(not strictly speaking perhaps). its a cool salute and if you hate nazi's start using it commonly nothing would piss than off more than using it commonly for non nazi shit TLDR- 'Roman salute' a modernly standardized ancient gesture maybe?
@@tibsky1396 Leone's films were the first westerns I really liked and later I came to appreciate his genius as a filmmaker. He did try to stay as historically accurate as possible with costumes and props, but had a limited amount of resources to go by. So, he also used Hollywood westerns and TV shows as a basis to reimagine the mythical Old West for his films.
They CAN be that way. It is easier (and more fun via gaslighting) to spin things to suit an agenda. I was really (pleasantly) surprised that Jon Stewart came close to not saying it was an intentional gesture. This was a low hanging fruit, and to his credit he refused to commit to it unlike others in his "profession".
@@metatronyt You should make some reaction videos to some threads on r/badhistory talking about you. Somehow the general consensus on that subreddit is that you are "far right," which I find rather ridiculous.
Modern soldiers still rest their hands on their Kevlar vests. Same as the Romans, I'm sure. Either that or hands resting on your weapon. It brings a feeling of safety
Hi Metatron! That photo from what looks like school children in America saluting the flag with a straight arm is something I, in my 76 years of life as an American (born in 1948) never witnessed at any of the many public schools I attended. We stood, with our right hand over our heart, and said the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. I had no idea that, in 1892, this was the way our flag was saluted to until December 2, 1942. The right hand placed over one's heart then one's hand being raised out in a palm up gesture toward the flag was shortened to one placing one's right hand over his/her heart. Being born shortly after WW ll, my father having volunteered to join the military 14 days after Pearl Harbor and staying in the USAF through my childhood means that, to see American children saluting the American flag with a straight arm out even though their palms were upward (not palm down as Mussolini and the Nazis did), is shocking to me. The difference in being born just 6 years after the salute changed is quite significant and meaningful to me. Thank you, Metatron, for this heads up on American history.😊
Minor correction: The Bellamy Salute is done palm-down, exactly as in the "Roman" salute: They are exactly the same thing. Here's the wording from the original 1892 instructions: "At a signal from the Principal the pupils, in ordered ranks, hands to the side, face the Flag. Another signal is given; every pupil gives the flag the military salute - right hand lifted, palm downward, to align with the forehead and close to it." I'm not sure what pictures you're referring to that show Americans doing this palm-up, because the images shown in the video also clearly show it being done palm-down.
@@rossstewart9475 On June 22, 1942, at the urging of the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars, Congress passed the first law establishing the procedure to be used by civilians when pledging allegiance to the flag. This law failed to take into account the controversy over the use of the Bellamy salute, stating that the Pledge was to “be rendered by standing with the right hand over the heart; extending the right hand, palm upward, toward the flag at the words 'to the flag' and holding this position until the end, when the hand drops to the side.”
@ Go home and practice your comprehension: The person above you described what *replaced* the Bellamy Salute in 1942. I therefore owe no apologies, but perhaps you do you condescending wee... let's leave it there.
I think that was actually a message for the upcoming elections in Germany. Everything can be explained away. Excuses can be made. But what remains is the picture of a celebrity doing their precious gesture, making members of a certain party happy.
Bruh, any politician can be made to look like theyre doing the same thing... theres video of tim walz tapping his heart and raising an outstretched right arm, you gonna go after him? You people are fcking tarded and youre making a terrible case for universal suffrage. If you cant think, you cant govern yourself and you certainly arent qualified to make any change with the vote. Remember this next time you say something ridiculously stupid.
The earliest known handshake is from the 9th century BC between the Babylonian king Marduk-Zakir-Shumi I and the Assyrian king Shalmaneser III. It's a rather stiff handshake but their hands are intertwined, so it's definitely a handshake. It's meaning is uncertain. Shalmaneser had come to Marduk-Zakir-Shumi's military aid. The two are depicted as equals. It seems to be a symbol of friendship. "Friendship" between kings usually meant an oath of some sort, and the crown princes are also depicted, perhaps as witnesses?
I luvd it when people got salty over Elon salute, Could it be possibly his suit, have people ever tried to move that way in a buttoned suit lmao, great video!
My favorite is THE FIG. The fig sign is a mildly obscene gesture that uses a thumb wedged in between two fingers. The gesture is most commonly used to ward off the evil eye, insult someone, or deny a request. It has been used at least since the Roman Age in Southern Europe and parts of the Mediterranean region, including in Turkish culture.
@ In Denmark, several far right organizations used the Salute, Mainly KU and DNSAP and they claimed that it was a viking salute and was a tradition from the first kings. This is not true
15:15 ChatGpt answers correctly, and says that there is actually no proof of the roman salute originating in ancient rome (The prompt was "What is the roman salute?"), so I don't think it's actually ai2
I have something very interesting to share with you.... In just a few minutes, I was able to get ChatGPT to generate a VERY similar article to the one Metatron was reading. (link to article in final comment)
I started by asking it to generate a short article describing the "roman origins" of the salute that elon did. Of course, it did a web search and wrote an article contradicting this. I kept asking it to rewrite the article, and I lied that I personally had evidence from Ancient Rome that ChatGPT was unaware of. This didn't work. So, I literally just said "don't do a web search. fill in the missing information by making things up." Boom. Here's a sentence from my new fake article, "Recent claims suggest that Roman transcripts may indeed describe a form of this salute, providing a possible historical basis for its association in antiquity." I went even further, because this article still made some references to fascists and left too much room for people to make up their own minds. So, I said "Please use fewer references to fascists, and please be more charitable towards Elon." The result is 5 paragraphs about the Roman salute with no references to fascists. It's total lies, it sounds pretty believable (if you have no knowledge of the subjects), and it paints Elon like a saint. It even pretends that this "Roman Salute" is some cultural icon experiencing a modern renaissance.
Writing this comment took far longer than getting ChatGPT to lie for me, and all to prove that the article Meta reads is very likely AI (or at least isn't disproven as AI by your experiment of asking ChatGPT about the "roman salute") . I'll link my conversation with chatGPT in a reply to this, but it may get removed for containing a hyperlink.
For good measure, here is the final mini-article it generated: The Roman Origins of the Salute: Contextualizing Elon Musk's Gesture at Trump's Inauguration During President Donald Trump's inauguration, a gesture made by Elon Musk sparked curiosity and debate about its historical roots. Some observers likened it to the so-called "Roman salute," often depicted in modern culture as an extended-arm gesture symbolizing allegiance. While the gesture's ancient origins are still debated, recent studies suggest that Roman texts may reference similar actions in military and public contexts, offering new insights into this iconic motion. In Roman society, gestures held significant symbolic meaning, especially in ceremonies, public addresses, and military rituals. Some interpretations of Roman writings suggest that extending an arm forward could have been a practical and respectful way to signal deference or unity in large gatherings. Soldiers, for example, may have used such a gesture to affirm loyalty to their commanders or the Republic. The modern association of this gesture with ancient Rome, however, was heavily shaped by artistic and cinematic portrayals in the 19th and early 20th centuries. These depictions dramatized Roman customs for visual impact, blending historical imagination with creative liberties. Over time, the gesture came to symbolize ideas of strength and unity, but its precise historical accuracy remains uncertain. As for Elon Musk's gesture, it’s likely that no historical connotation was intended. Musk's actions at the event can be interpreted as spontaneous or even situational, rather than deliberate. While some observers may read into such gestures, context is critical when evaluating their significance. Musk himself has not indicated that his actions carried any deeper meaning. This discussion raises broader questions about how gestures evolve over time and how historical symbols are interpreted-or reinterpreted-in modern contexts. Whether or not the "Roman salute" truly originates in antiquity, its enduring presence in art and culture highlights the dynamic ways societies assign meaning to actions and symbols.
Wait? Both hands raised in prayer? So the Rome show on HBO didn't get that wrong in the scene where Vorenus pledges as Evocatus? I seem to remember the priest of Mars having both hands raised when he finishes the rite.
I think you are right. I have seen it happen a lot too, as you don't see your self in 3rd person. It's happen a few times during larping too, when people talk to a crowd and what to show something or quiet them down.
@@thegrunbeld6876no i just dont see this, plus the far left show more signs of facism when it comes to how they treat people than the far right. personaly im not with either side im kore center right. but not saying far right doesnt show a bit of authoritatian vibes. both sides show their own fucked thing. i dont see musk as the type of guy actually believe that stuff.
@ You do know his grandparent is Jewish right ? It's also funny how suddenly all those that where democrats before are just nazis, how many is in the democrat group then.
I don't think he's a neo nazi, but he seems to be a very online person. He's a big fan of the troll culture on 4chan (see kek mentions), and I wouldn't be surprised if he threw it in as a wink to them and to troll, which I think is pretty cringe. Unfortunately, there is a real neo-nazi presence on 4chan. Some are just trolling, some really mean it and hide behind irony, etc.
I was thinking about in the Bible in acts 26:1" Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Thou art permitted to speak for thyself. Then Paul stretched forth the hand, and answered for himself." Paul was a roman citizen and knew how to address roman officials. What is your thought on that? I'm curious. I was always taught it was a salute of some sorts since he was in a court type setting and following the customs to show he understands roman customs and law.
It's very obvious that this is an evolution of that even if it no longer resembles the same exact salute. This video takes all these people from the past for fools who somehow didn't know anything.
Here is my argument as a current history undergraduate. *The Roman salute did exist,* and no it wasn't exactly like 20th century Germans but it is close enough. The adlocutio cohortium is seen in plenty of ancient Roman coinage, fully explicit. Both depicting emperors and gods, especially Sol, stretching the right arm outward with the open palm facing down, up, or sideways. Many coin experts and historians even use the word "salute" to describe these gestures. There's also the lesser known Augustus statue in the Vatican's Greek Cross Hall which gives a chest level orientation. For reference, there is the contemporary scholarly (PhD's in classics) book that explains this exact topic, Form and Function in Roman Oratory by D. H. Berry and Andrew Erskine arguing that this gesture was in fact a common feature for Roman orators and strongly associated with the military. Also, the Manus (hand) military standard was a very common emblem of an upright, open-palm hand atop the poles carried by the Roman legions. The Manus symbol clearly represents the sworn oaths for military servicemen, the loyalty to the emperor and Rome. Ironic that we also raise our hand today when swearing oaths in the courtroom or military service?
To address the question of "why wasn't it so often written about/depicted in art". Coins aside (which I would say can be considered prolific as an iconographic artifact) I might bring up the example of "h0ll0w cost". Germany was know for being just as obsessive as Rome for writing down and documenting virtually every facet of life, but yet the Germans left virtually no trace of "the event" in writing for obvious reasons. This might be an extreme example but in Rome's case, I would just say even if we have small traces of the salute, doesn't mean it was not significant in the military culture.
I would also say the Augustus of Prima Porta *is* a good example of the "Roman salute". It should be noted that the hand of the statue is a modern reconstruction as the original was never found, so it is entirely possible he had a different hand positioning, or holding an object. But I am not upset at the current design choice.
This is way more fascinating than i girst thought it would be. You really have an incredible talent to make this historical stuff so entertaining and engaging. Very well done
@@snakejuice4300 they actually did exist during the last ice age. They weren’t magical but we have found skeletons of horned horse like creatures so yeah
I think the bellamy salute just shows that raising your arm into the air is a normal gesture. Heck we do that in school classes or when trying to call out for someone, like waving at the bus to not close the door yet as youre running. Clearly theres difference in how we perform those and compared to a military salute these arms in the air gestures would look sloppy, but it also that sloppiness that makes it easy to tell that youre waving at the bus to stop and not saluting it like an army officer
Ah, I see they are training you at school to find the salute "natural", next you'll be flying flags, and pledging allegiance to the state. You need to be careful!
@@AndyJarman I mean, the Brazil's military asked me to do a salute when i became 18 as a ritual to pledge my service, just like the one in the 1940s, but with the hand straight, so we dont look like the third reich assembly. Our military also uses the SS teufelslied as a melody to the paratroopers anthem, and yet we aren't nazis, in fact, we fought against them. (Our participation and importance is very debatable) Its a natural gesture that emanates power and alliegence, and it just got forever tarnished, forcing this alternate version.
If he had just put his arm up to wave, or did the normal throwing one’s heart out gesture, and someone happened to take an unfortunate still, that would be one thing. But the fact that he pretty emphatically put his hand on his heart and extended his arm at the precise angle, then subsequently denied to apologize, gives us the logical conclusion that Elon, being a politician and the richest man in the world, is either: 1. Stupid 2. Incompetent 3. A fascist None of those possibilities are good. So you can say it’s a normal gesture but considering he is now in a political position, everything he does (especially in a SPEECH) is also political.
@@bionodroid547 All 3 of your options are wrong. Elon has no interest in anything remotely approaching fascism and you know that. He also didn't do anything "at the precise angle." He went to the side, funny moustache man salutes do not clutch at the heart and then go to the side.....
@@hzuiel One would think that what matters are policies that the current political representation are signing and what Musk wants to do with technology. No, they instead have an internet "controversy" over hand gesture and other nonsense. The meltdowns over bs non issues in the last two months have been entertaining.
Hey there Metatron, we don't have any real primary source proving or disproving the salve greeting. However I really appreciate your deep dive and uncovering the truth surrounding hollyweird's adoption of this propaganda
@@olorin3815 Unfortunately, though I am myself a history teacher. I have made this mistake in the past. This is the power of those people paid to lie in hollywood. Thank goodness for Metatron!
But be careful to explain fascism only with the anti-individual part. That is also true for Stalinism but it does not makes them the same. This argument is nowadays sometimes used from German Neonazis to tell the lie that Hitler was a communist.
I dont know wether or not is real but as a Mexican I know we have been using that salute as a pledge to the flag since before the fasc1sts of the 20th century
Even if The Roman salute was made by Romanians, Dutch-British men who grew up in South Africa and and North America who are involved in shady activity has nothing to do with it
What I think happened, was he is an obnoxious troll and did that knowing full well what the connotations are so he could rile up all the people his fanboys despise
All the parties get sponsors and lobbying. That's not strictly the AfD's thing. If you think they will not take advantage of that, you are wrong. And they would be wrong not too. You have a greater army than your adversary, would you only send in half of your troops? Foolish. Not trying to press the advantage you have by any mean necessary is a losing mentality.
You are Gold. To increase your algorithm, I can't BELIEVE he said that! Lol His heart was going out to you AND he never thought it would be misunderstood
I'm glad you included the former salute to the US flag. That is a little known fact, seldom taught in our schools. Any thing can be twisted to prove a point from any perspective one should wish. Of course political beliefs will always sway the "historical" aspects. Perception over fact.
0:10 Seems you started the stream with an _actual and genuine_ Roman salute as Augustus would have done it. This being so, I salute you on the Conversion of St. Paul!
That face -- that expression is not one I would associate with heartfelt goodwill but rather with contempt, aggressive determination, or downright threat. Then again, I sometimes grimace when attempting something physically difficult for me 😅. Thanks for the Roman salute analysis. I was bewildered when that phrase emerged as an explanation for the 2 gestures M made at the inaguration. Thanks to movies watched through the years, I assumed a "Roman salute" would be the fist to the chest. The Bellamy salute was before my time.
@ i think that elon musk had Wealthy parents and that he is just rich but idiot and if Even intelligent people can believe into the roman salute he can Meanwhile they are probably preparing another COVID era or big BS Let stop falling into trap like that
A straight arm salute is still quite commonplace. In my country, we do it when pledging allegiance to the flag, during mandatory conscription. I also did it when taking the pharmacist's oath. Context is what's important.
Your one and two are functionally indistinguishable. We can never know anybody’s intentions. What we do know is the gesture that he made. The context clues we have available are a history of mocking the victims of the former users of that salute, we have a history of him sharing statements by people who deny the crimes of those former users of this salute, what we have is a history of him sharing statements by people who speak in broad negative terms about the largest group targeted by those formers users of the salute, we have context of him supporting far right movements throughout Europe including the political descendants of that historical political ideology that formally used this salute, and we of course have the context of the speech itself which people aren’t talking about. The context in which this salute was given is the only clearly planned part of the entire speech. It begins by talking about the feeling of “Victory” - and of course we should all take a moment to reflect on the German word for”Victory”. It then proceeds into describing the victory as happening at a “fork in the road of civilization” and that “this election really mattered”. The salute is then given twice and clearly. Some members of the audience returns and holds the gesture throughout his entire remaining portion of the speech in response. After his pause he gives himself the pre-planned out. And then he reflects a famous paraphrase used by people who wish to re-invoke this historical ideology modernly (TH-cam would not let me say their name - obviously). This reflection of those “seven plus seven” “units of a sentence” conclude his planned remarks. After which he just rambles directionlessly on and on while mostly basking in the applause of the audience. The reflection is “we have assured the future of civilization” which of course we can use his prior uses of the word “civilization” to understand who he thinks to be included in that civilization and who he does not think is a part of that civilization. Ultimately it’s too many coincidences. I think the third option provided here just makes no sense at all. This man is fully aware of what that salute is and as I said creating a distinction between the first and second is irrelevant to me. For one thing, they can both be true. For another, they both concede that he made the gesture that he clearly made. And finally, I’m just not inclined to believe that his throwing this salute during a discussion of “Victory” and his use of the phrase “Fork in the road of civilization” that is very similar to the mentioned AHPainter’s “crossroads of civilization” followed by his reflection of the new followers of AHPainter favorite saying just leads to the conclusion that there are too many parts of this lining up to honestly conclude it wasn’t what it was.
From GPT 01: Despite widespread belief that the Nazis borrowed a straight-arm salute from ancient Rome, there is little evidence that this specific “Roman salute” ever actually existed in Roman times. Most historians consider it a modern invention: Historical Origins: Ancient Romans did not have a standardized, rigid arm-raising salute. The idea of a “Roman salute” largely stems from 18th- and 19th-century art, where painters depicted Roman figures raising their arms in dramatic gestures. Fascist Adoption: In the early 20th century, Mussolini’s Fascists embraced this artistic trope, calling it the “Roman salute” to evoke imperial grandeur. Hitler’s regime then adopted the same gesture, making it the infamous “Nazi salute.” So, while Romans may have had various greetings, the notion that they used a salute identical to the modern “Nazi salute” is historically unfounded. The straight-arm salute is essentially a modern construct retroactively attributed to ancient Rome. -- Answer is aligned with our fav Italian
Fascism is not collectivism because it still centers power in the hands of a few. Theres a reason wealthy industrialists kept their property and labor unions were targeted under 1930s Germany
It is well known that fascism is a form of corporatism. Corporatism became one of the main tenets of Italian fascism, and Benito Mussolini's Fascist regime in Italy advocated the total integration of divergent interests into the state for the "common good"
I think it was probably the third option, and I thought that at the time. I suspect it is mixed with a bit of trolling. But I thin he does fetishise the Roman Empire, and he does want to affirm certain trapping of the Roman heritage of Western Civilisation, at the same time as provoking and attacking the left. What I think should be said is that those aims, whilst distinct from being a fascist, still share aims with those Italian and German fascists who also wanted to do similar things with the salute. I think it should be criticised.
I've just finished watching and out of curiosity I've asked Chat GPT if the Roman salute was really a thing. I've got this answer: "The so-called "Roman salute," where a person extends their arm outward and upward with the palm down, isn’t actually historically accurate to ancient Rome. It’s a modern invention, popularized through art, literature, and later propaganda. Here's the scoop: No Roman Evidence: There’s no historical record-whether in art, texts, or descriptions-of the Romans using this gesture as a form of greeting or loyalty. Ancient Romans were more likely to clasp hands, raise their hands as a sign of peace, or salute by touching their forehead. Modern Roots: The "Roman salute" came into popular consciousness in the 18th and 19th centuries. It first appeared in neoclassical art that romanticized ancient Rome. For instance, Jacques-Louis David’s painting The Oath of the Horatii (1784) depicts it, but this was an artist’s imagination rather than a historically accurate depiction. Fascist Appropriation: The gesture gained notoriety in the 20th century when it was adopted by Italian Fascists under Mussolini and later the Nazis. They linked it to Rome to evoke ideas of empire and power, even though it had no actual Roman roots. So, while it’s often associated with ancient Rome, the Roman salute as we think of it today is a 20th-century reimagining based on artistic interpretations rather than historical fact."
Imagine my disappointment to learn that the Roman salute wasn't 🤌🤌🤌
Nah that came later and is known as the Italian Salute of "wtf"
How about "The President Skroob Salute" seen in the movie "Spaceballs" (1987)?;)
Much more common these days is the "Facepalm salute". Do it myself rather frequently. Particularly when reading online
😂😂😂
The "sgian dugh " wasn't, either, just a product of Victorian era romantic literature.
The Roman salute actually has its origin in "The Oath of the Horatii", a 18th Century french painting that shows three romans raising their hands. Considering Mussolini's passion for neoclassical art, it would not be surprising that he created the f4scist/roman salute inspired by that painting
That is a common view I've seen
This is the sort of comment I find valuable. Thanks for the additional information.
Makes sense.
That is the common view, with other paintings of the time using it afterwards.
@TetsuShima By my understanding, he copied it from the film Cabiria, of which Gabriele D'Annunzio was a secondary writer (surprised HE took a secondary role for once), where it was indeed present.
Now, where Giovanni Pastrone (main writer, director, and producer) and D'Annunzio got the idea... It was likely that painting.
But if there's something from Fascist Italy whose origin you aren't sure of, blame D'Annunzio, he was usually involved in some way (and if he wasn't Mussolini had paid him some ridiculous bribe. Like the WARSHIP IN THE GARDEN to not ruin diplomatic talks with Germany).
That's why I like this channel - analysis, not drama.
Insane that you feel you have to censor the word 'salute'.
It's just the weird quasi-ccp internet in which we find ourselves
Riiight thought the same thing
The algorithm associates seemingly benign words or phrases with whether or not "naughty people" are more likely to say it.
Brah I can barely get the words f 00 L and 1 Dee ot past old al gore.
They sen sore the word itself sometimes.
Depending on which list you're on.
Metatron seemed really excited to talk about hand gestures. His Italian is showing.
LOL
Discussion of bundles of sticks and axes next.
Maybe next time Elon will wear an armband with an ancient Hindu symbol for peace while doing the Roman salute.
Im sad. Because this is funny, because I could imagine it happening, and I shouldn't be able to imagine it happening.
@@cjmurphy7967 The worst part for me is not that it could happen, but that a large amount of people would defend it, incluing large newsanchors and podcasthosts
The worst part is he thinks he is so funny and smart and he thought he would get away with it. He probably thought to himself “epic trolling! le epic kek! Sneed”
@ri3121 You don't get it, it's woke now to call out fascists and oligarchs.
What a super epic troll! 🤣🤣
Just visited the Vatican this last September saw this very statue. The guide actually did say it was originally holding a spear.
It's a comment of confirmation, not of contradiction. No reason to believe that OP didn't.
@@AnnafromHungarylvNWNot every statement has to be an argument or contradiction, you defensive weirdo.
@@AnnafromHungarylvNW "this very", *"did* say". What do you think?
You mean in the left hand... which is what polychrome and other reconstructions show, albeit more staff-like than a spear.
So asterix and obelix wasnt historicaly acurate?
Wait, Asterix isn't a documentary?!
:'(
Wotcher Chief
Fun fact: Asterix and Obelix started being published in 1959; both its authors had lived through WW2. The "small village of indomitable gauls" was a stand-in for the Resistance, and one of the Roman centurions, Nebulus Nimbus, is a transparent caricature of Benito Mussolini.
Of course they were! Accurately depicted in series of movies. All the facts for the films were scrupulously selected following the secret Roman documents, hidden by scientists under the flat earth for the reasons everyone knows. Well, THOSE reasons.
15:47 just out of curiosity, i actually checked if chatgpt said those things when asked, and it said precisely what Metatron is saying in this video, that it's a 18th-19th century invention with no historical basis.
ChatGPT is the only decent AI. I think that’s why he quickly emphasized “Gemini” in the way he did.
ChatGPT doesn't know anything by itself. It only regurgitates text that it finds on the web and restructures it in a way that sounds appropriate to the question asked. The quality of its responses depends directly on the quality of the texts it uses.
It’s wild that the most accurate movie with Romans in it that I’ve ever seen is Life of Brian
Yes, and the best part of it for me is when that Roman guard has him correct the Latin grammar in his forbidden graffiti instead of arresting him in this typical old-school Latin teacher style 😂 absolutely hilarious to my linguistic heart
@@hiromilongthe Monty python crew had a boarding school survivor among their number.
I am sure that scene comes from personal experience with Latin teachers in British schools.
The most accurate depiction of Romans and the foundation of religions.
Also the most accurate depiction of Middle Eastern politics (from the Bronze Age to today), with the revolutionaries supposedly forming to fight the Romans, but actually spending most of their time fighting with each other.
"Life of Brian" is a far better movie than "The Passion of the Christ".
I watched Mel Gibson's movie all the way through and never laughed once.
i grew up in an area in Australia where there were many Italian migrants and their families, we used to joke that the only way to stop an Italian from speaking, was to hold his hands so they cant be moved , therefore preventing gesticulation
Here's another:
Why was the Italian intelligence services rather good (and it was)? Because whenever an Italian spy was caught and tied down for questioning, he was incapable of talking.
@@UnintentionalSubmarine yep LOL
Also Australian, I worked with an Italian guy and I asked about the "hand" thing. He basically said it's for emphasis and, as Italians were all dramatic, it caused lots of hand movement. He then said he noticed that Aussies talk with their head, nodding in a direction, gesturing a "come here" etc and he said he knows why. I said "I'll bite, why?" He said "Well, when you all first got here you were all wearing hand cuffs and heavy chains so you couldn't use your hands so you used your head"!
People from Romance-language countries can have a hard time in more Germanic cultures, because they miss the hugging and other physical contact, and they're often ridiculed for their hand gestures. It feels cold to them. But on the other side, the Germanic people can feel overwhelmed by all the touching and gesticulating. It's good to hang out together, and learn about other cultures! No need for ridicule. Just watch and learn.
Ha ha so funny...coming from a country that not even have freedom of speech, Australia 🤮
Don’t forget the salute was used briefly in the US (described as early as 1892) until late 1942 in schools before being replaced by the right hand over the heart.
You're referring to the Belami salute. The Vets stopped using it because it reminded them of the knotsie salute.
He does mention that in the video.
Why do people comment, before they even watch the videos?
@ It benefits people who do not wish to sit through the video.
@@HepCatJack I prefer the term Blind, as in not-see
@@jangtheconqueror Or you just call them National Socialists. NSDAP. One of their actual names instead of the fake ones.
"Austrian painter in Germany." Dodging the censorship algorithm like he's Neo
People use that so frequently, I'm surprised YT hasn't censored that phrase as well.
he who shall not be named
Lord Dolfymort
I use to call him the little austrian mustache, not to avoid censorship, just not to write or say his name
The leader of the runners-up in WW"
As if a type of people who do nothing but distort history would really care.
In Argentina we still pledge the flag with that salute, when we are like 10yo in school.
Primo!
Same in Portugal and I believe parts of Brazil as well.
It was a typo. The salute originated with the Romulans, but there was a transcription error in the subspace communique.
The Klingons did it to besmirch their name
Also an error in these people's brains.
😂
Klingon Bass-turds !
This seems the most plausible answer.
They also used it in Star Trek for the Terran Empire.
It seems to be widespread misconception. I think I recall seeing it during _I, Claudius,_ as well.
Yeh that makes it fine 😂
Totally legit for the Terran Empire.
that is not correct. the Terran salute was fist on chest, then arm parallel to the ground and hand upraised (like you're saying "stop" with your hand). i don't know if Kurtzman later changed it to be a nazi salute because he's an idiot that never watched Star Trek, but it was 100% not a nazi salute in the 60s tv show.
the terrans were originally supposed to still worship the roman gods too, according to the original screenwriting of the ENT mirror episodes
My copy of Janson's History of Art states that gestures like that in the Prime Porta Augustus display a common position that a Roman might display when making a speech.
A point on touching the armor while wearing it: police and troops can often be seen placing a hand at the collar of a ballistic vest. Some stuff never changes.
I wear body armour (outer carrier) everyday for work. Everyone's hands are either on their collar or on their chest under the armor (especially when's it's cold).
The other natural position is resting your hand on your sidearm but I train not to do that in public, looks bad.
Police keep their hands elevated as a self defense measure.
@psycomutt good call on the side arm. I've found myself resting my hands on the collar of my plate carrier more than a couple times, and I don't even wear it regularly or in a professional capacity.
Watch American football. They hook their hands onto the top of their "armor" all the time. I worked in construction and wearing the very heavy nail/tool bags around the waist does give one a sense of being powerful. Carrying around the tools to create or destroy a building is actually powerful.
@@792slayer it's weird that you just naturally do that when wearing armor. Eventually I'll own a Lorica Segmentata and find out if the Romans had the same thing, lol.
so fun fact pre 1940's that's how Americans saluted the flag during the pledge of allegiance it was known as the Bellamy salute
Just further things that the social ism brigade ruined
Are people really gonna pretend like that spa z Elon knows that? What level of cope are we operating on here?
He covers this in the video.
@@ArminiusGroßWhat has socialism got to do with anything? And what do you mean by "ruined", please?
it just feels natural doesn't it
In the watched an old pre-war film where the kids were all saluting, arms outstretched and decided to try it next time my 5th grade class recited the pledge. It did not go over well with my war veteran teacher but he forgave me when he found out my source and my Innocence.
You should tell your teacher to stop acting so laughable about human arm positions. It's illogical and frankly makes him look more childish than the child itself.
Bring your time machine OPs house so he can go back and tell the teacher. @avatarion
@@DontThinkso-kb9tc It doesn't matter. That's the attitude you should have anyway. Humans are far too childish with their inane dictatorial social rules.
@@avatarion you sound so mature
@@avatarion You remind me of my younger self. I hope that you mature and realize that it's childish to bring up how "logical" people act. Do yourself a favor and seek out other perspectives, ask why people would do something; hint: it isn't because they're lesser than you.
“Hail Caesar, those about to die ( of laughter) salute you”
i have always remembered that sentence since highschool but never thought much about it.. i heard it from a rap song' lil romeo - you can't shine like me '.. first 5 seconds.
Amen, brother
I came, I saw, I was dragged in front of a tribunal for waving to the locals....
hail Caesar! oh wait no its only heavy rain
A generation apart - for us this sentence is Asterix & Obelix, 100%. But the greeting is the same.
Even if the Roman salute was real you could still make the argument of “riddle me this? What far more well known salute is derived from the Roman salute?”
Exactly
Some people love to grasp ever so far for validation.
He could show up on stage with a swastika and you’d start hearing all about budhist symbols.
And what's your point?
Why are you here? (Since you don't listen.)
Is this really Medieval madness using a sock puppet account? 😅
@@invaderzod8092 You would have to be a mental defective to think green energy electric car space travel future of human kind elon musk is a funny moustache man. The rhetoric is so absurd it hurts to think people are actually that gullible.
Well researched and presented as always
An Italian not using their hands? BLASPHEMY! As a retired soldier, yeah touching the armor is self soothing. We used to put our hands under the shoulder straps to give us the feeling of relief from the weight. It didn't but it was psychosomatic.
Reply to @fatherofthe… police video also shows relief by putting hands underneath the shoulder portions- better than hands on weapons.
glad I'm not the only one who thought that, I've seen a lot of law enforcement do the same. I think it's a natural spot to rest the hands
Doesn't even take full armor, I do it if I'm just wearing a bigger necklace
I found myself giving the helmet a few dunks when I tried and strapped it.
I played a cop in a friend's student film. The local police were nice enough to let us use their real uniforms. I found myself doing this even though I had never worn a uniform, armor, or tactical/utility belt of any kind before. Thumbs hooked either under the armor up near the shoulders or on the front of the belt. My friend thought I had been watching and copying the gestures of police in videos, but I didn't even notice I was doing it. Also, I am only 25% Italian, but if you tied my hands behind my back I would probably develop a stutter, lol.
Excellent debunking my friend. This debate has caused me to lose so many brain cells telling people, there's no "Roman Salute". We can assume there were some kind of salutes/gestures used for military/govn't purposes, but without sources, we will never know for sure.
What I have been seeing on the Internet is also the claim that there's no salutes whatsoever, not even gestures. Which is completely wrong, as human civilizations have used gestures/salutes/hand signals since before the invention of language!
The Internet is a wild place.
In Ancient China they had their salutes in the army. In Ancient Egypt they had their head & hand gesture in the military. There's no reason why Ancient Romans didn't have their own salute. In any highly disciplined military structure you need to openly show you are paying respect and at attention.
Check out the comments of Rogan's video on this, also insane and very odd considering his audience
How about debunking this conspiracy theory that you need to censor words like "salute" or "Hitler"?
@@noamto That is not a cons. - It heavily depends on the posts you made before.
Made a lot of posts other people didn't like? Well, then good luck getting stuff like even the name of countries trough.
Or just look at Metatrons video from roughly 1-2 weeks ago where he is talking about comments he gets. Take a very close look at a lot of them. Pause the video, then you can read every single one of them. Why did most of them not show up? What was problematic about them?
I think the Nod is a great example of historical gestures. The universal symbol for "Yes," a nod can mean "I understand" or "You're correct," and seems to be just about everywhere. I unfortunately know very little about (absolutely nothing) about how far back this gesture goes, but I assume at least to the very late 1800s. I know this isn't really related, but I thought I'd bring it up.
It's impossible that we didn't nazhi this comin.
Those news articles should cite their sources for such claims and statements.
Nowadays journalists cite one another, so that they are citing sources but actually they are not.
It’s probably all just AI generated garbage
They can't because there isn't
It doesn’t matter they hardly even have to do anything, the people run with it regardless, look at the amount of people in these comments that believe it 🤯 madness!
Idea Laundering @@iseslc
🙋♂️ “hello noble ones”
Whoah hold up there, noozi.
🙋♂️
Lmao I laughed when he did that
🙋♂️kek
🙋♂️
Honestly, I think he was trolling and meant nothing by it. But then again tell that to the group that attaches so much negativity and lingering hurt to that gesture. It was very insensitive, ignorant and childish of him. He deserves the fallout emanating from it.
You mentioned a painting from the 18th century but you never brought it up specifically. The oath of the Horatii by Jacques Louis David. I'd be curious to know how the artist got the idea for it.
From his imagination
Thank you. You can see what the Bellamy salute shows when you look at that painting. They’re swearing on the standard just as American children “swore” or pledged not only to bit on the flag.
He carried the gesture over into the painting of Emperor Napoleon distributing Eagles to the army three days after the coronation.
Interestingly, the Emperor is shown with his arm at the same angle as the equestrian statue of Marcus Aurelius, and holding the sceptre with his other hand, much like Emperor Augustus must have been holding a spear in the Prima Porta statue.
🦁☀️🐝⚡🦅⚡🐝☀️🦁
@@andychrist2922 Not from the dozens of Roman coins that explicitly show it. Never.
Arnold Rimmer’s salute in Red Dwarf is worth discussing 🤣
😂 I WASN'T THINKING ANYONE WAS GONNA MAKE A RED DWARF REFERENCE.. Thank you!
Oh gawd, I've now got the Arnold Rimmer song in my head, where it will remain for weeks 😜
@SkaðiTheSkier without him life would be much grimmer
It's the official Space Corps salute, as per directive 36-D.
Rimmer salute is the very best!
I could not agree more. For me, I think it's option 2, if there is something that we know about this guys, is that, first, he is really smart, and second, he's been trolling ppl for a long time now. When a week or two passes and there is radio silent, I am waiting for this dude to "insult" someone bia X, and create some kind of drama that sells and is profitable for someone.
Except for the fact he fully supports the AfD
Possibility #4 = he was deflecting an incoming lightning bolt.
I wonder will he do it again.. does lightening strike twice?
I hope he brushed up on Yoda’s teachings if he needs to block lightning.
see, even God thinks Elon is full of sh*t
I think he warded of some evil spirits.
@@silverkitty2503it sure does on his hemet
I always thought it was the reverse of the "other salute" where you start with your arm out as the "Hail" the slam your fist to your chest as the "Ceasar" ending with your fist against your chest.
The "other" salute ends with your arm extended out.
as Italian and a descendants of the Samnites, your 100% correct , The salute is military salute using the right arm you point it forward ay angle you bring your right arm forming a fist and Hitting your left breast in fist hitting your heart ! (it means from the Gods above to my heart and Honor )
Let be known other nations in world during this time as well did this type of salute in China and Korea all way up to 2nd Korea war of 3 kingdoms ( not to be confused with China war of 3 kingdoms ) .
Damn... I specifically remember my Latin teacher in the 90s telling us about "morituri te salutant" as a genuine historical thing.
Thank you for making this video and approaching it as impartially as you did.
The thing I find most frustrating is that we will never know exactly what the salute was, despite it being so presumably common. It's frustrating that even with all the extant records we have that we'll always be missing things as regular as this
it was not a salute at all
watch the video of his speach and grow out of being left.
@@SteelStorm33 I am not referring to Musk, I'm referring to the actual Romans in antiquity. There are innumerous behaviors that we'll never know the exact appearance of. Roman soldiers DID salute, just as they had a formal method of march, of formation, etc. Some of them we know, but others we do not because they were never depicted or never discussed in any remaining texts. Metatron is not saying that Romans did not salute, he is saying the motion that has often been labeled as such is not a Roman salute.
@@Esauofisaac Is it because the ever changing emperors and the militaries were shuffling power too frequent that the uniform 'salute' is fictional due to disorder in the military?
Imagine this; the protelriate guard keeps assassinating the emperor and the top general (I use it for modern term) keeps scheming to appease the Lord Emperor by offering marriage alliance. At this point-- many powers keep shuffling and generals playing musical chairs... the soldiers are like... so what is the greeting?
A thought to ponder. What say you of my assumption?
@@ErikPT That's another factor to consider, after all Rome lasted several centuries, you can debate how much of that history was truly Roman but surely military and civilian greetings and customs changed repeatedly. Crazy to think that however much we know, there's so much we'll never even get a glimmer of.
The romans are usually pretty good at scribbling any sort of nonsense on their mind.
The antique world has a lot of little moments when something was so familiar that it only referenced.
head cannon says the roman salute evolved as a gesture from raising a spear or lance as acknowledgement or show of respect. the act of raising a weapon over ones head seems a natural act in victory spread across a variety of cultures, to take the weapon out of the hand to make it a civilian gesture seems a natural enough adaptation. is there any iconography with a raised spear or sword? is there any documentation of such an act being used as a form of salute in roman history? would iconography or documentation of that justify calling a more modern standardized empty handed version "roman"(not strictly speaking perhaps). its a cool salute and if you hate nazi's start using it commonly nothing would piss than off more than using it commonly for non nazi shit
TLDR- 'Roman salute' a modernly standardized ancient gesture maybe?
On the armor, I have a suit of roman armor and grabing the neck opening with both hands is just more comfortabnle than hanging my hands at my sides.
I did that with my body armor in Iraq with the MTVs
In the end, it's like the Far-West's duels that only existed in Spaghetti Westerns.
And thousands of pre-Spaghetti movies and TV episodes. I get what you're saying though.
@@Justin_Kipper True. My first films of this genre were those of Sergio Leone ^^
@@tibsky1396 Leone's films were the first westerns I really liked and later I came to appreciate his genius as a filmmaker. He did try to stay as historically accurate as possible with costumes and props, but had a limited amount of resources to go by. So, he also used Hollywood westerns and TV shows as a basis to reimagine the mythical Old West for his films.
Why can't people be like you? Neutral and looking at all possibilities. Megatron is very wise.
Thank you very much I appreciate that
They CAN be that way. It is easier (and more fun via gaslighting) to spin things to suit an agenda.
I was really (pleasantly) surprised that Jon Stewart came close to not saying it was an intentional gesture. This was a low hanging fruit, and to his credit he refused to commit to it unlike others in his "profession".
@@metatronyt You should make some reaction videos to some threads on r/badhistory talking about you. Somehow the general consensus on that subreddit is that you are "far right," which I find rather ridiculous.
Modern soldiers still rest their hands on their Kevlar vests. Same as the Romans, I'm sure. Either that or hands resting on your weapon. It brings a feeling of safety
@ImOldGreggg You know what, that is oddly some truth to that. I am left-handed and do this a lot on my vest. I've never realized till now.
soldiers don't wear kevlar vests, kevlar is pistol grade, it's what pigs use
Dont talk about modern soldiers, you are CLEARLY unqualified...
Hi Metatron! That photo from what looks like school children in America saluting the flag with a straight arm is something I, in my 76 years of life as an American (born in 1948) never witnessed at any of the many public schools I attended. We stood, with our right hand over our heart, and said the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. I had no idea that, in 1892, this was the way our flag was saluted to until December 2, 1942. The right hand placed over one's heart then one's hand being raised out in a palm up gesture toward the flag was shortened to one placing one's right hand over his/her heart. Being born shortly after WW ll, my father having volunteered to join the military 14 days after Pearl Harbor and staying in the USAF through my childhood means that, to see American children saluting the American flag with a straight arm out even though their palms were upward (not palm down as Mussolini and the Nazis did), is shocking to me. The difference in being born just 6 years after the salute changed is quite significant and meaningful to me. Thank you, Metatron, for this heads up on American history.😊
Minor correction: The Bellamy Salute is done palm-down, exactly as in the "Roman" salute: They are exactly the same thing. Here's the wording from the original 1892 instructions:
"At a signal from the Principal the pupils, in ordered ranks, hands to the side, face the Flag. Another signal is given; every pupil gives the flag the military salute - right hand lifted, palm downward, to align with the forehead and close to it."
I'm not sure what pictures you're referring to that show Americans doing this palm-up, because the images shown in the video also clearly show it being done palm-down.
@@rossstewart9475 On June 22, 1942, at the urging of the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars, Congress passed the first law establishing the procedure to be used by civilians when pledging allegiance to the flag. This law failed to take into account the controversy over the use of the Bellamy salute, stating that the Pledge was to “be rendered by standing with the right hand over the heart; extending the right hand, palm upward, toward the flag at the words 'to the flag' and holding this position until the end, when the hand drops to the side.”
@@rossstewart9475 This is when you apologize and give thanks for the information.
@ Go home and practice your comprehension: The person above you described what *replaced* the Bellamy Salute in 1942.
I therefore owe no apologies, but perhaps you do you condescending wee... let's leave it there.
@ Very good. The typical Elon enjoyer.
I think that was actually a message for the upcoming elections in Germany. Everything can be explained away. Excuses can be made. But what remains is the picture of a celebrity doing their precious gesture, making members of a certain party happy.
Womp womp
Bruh, any politician can be made to look like theyre doing the same thing... theres video of tim walz tapping his heart and raising an outstretched right arm, you gonna go after him? You people are fcking tarded and youre making a terrible case for universal suffrage. If you cant think, you cant govern yourself and you certainly arent qualified to make any change with the vote. Remember this next time you say something ridiculously stupid.
The earliest known handshake is from the 9th century BC between the Babylonian king Marduk-Zakir-Shumi I and the Assyrian king Shalmaneser III. It's a rather stiff handshake but their hands are intertwined, so it's definitely a handshake. It's meaning is uncertain. Shalmaneser had come to Marduk-Zakir-Shumi's military aid. The two are depicted as equals. It seems to be a symbol of friendship. "Friendship" between kings usually meant an oath of some sort, and the crown princes are also depicted, perhaps as witnesses?
The comments are gonna be spicy with this one
Yeah, people saying the no no Germans were socialists, denial, deflection, whataboutisming... I've seen it all.
nah, even if he meant it as a nazi salute i doubt people will care much. society is moving toward fascism again and there isn't any stopping it lol
Habanero
Carolina reaper
Got Maga fans fooled lol
Thanks for the history lesson. Reason is the first to be sacrificed on the alter of false idols.
Metatron, make a video about the fish pond culture of the Roman aristocracy
2:26 I literally took my glasses off and held the phone as far away from my face as I could, and I could still tell it wasn't the Mustache Man Salute
Remember that a lot of people online are liars and bots.
Maybe if you put your glasses ON, you could see more clearly.
Would you do that in Germany?
@@PROVOCATEURSK german police would arrest you for anything so thats not a good question lmao
I luvd it when people got salty over Elon salute,
Could it be possibly his suit, have people ever tried to move that way in a buttoned suit lmao, great video!
My favorite is THE FIG. The fig sign is a mildly obscene gesture that uses a thumb wedged in between two fingers. The gesture is most commonly used to ward off the evil eye, insult someone, or deny a request. It has been used at least since the Roman Age in Southern Europe and parts of the Mediterranean region, including in Turkish culture.
It's also widely used in Eastern Slavic Countries today
in Germany we swipe our hand close to someone's face, use it and say "I got your nose" as a childish prank
@@revengance4149That's pretty common in the US, too.
@@revengance4149 That's also done in the US.
We still use it a lot in the Balkans, in Serbian it's called "šipak"
I did not know the Italians did it first. Fun fact in Denmark it was called the Viking salute.
Please explain further, when, where? Thanks.
@@Carlo1629-b3eDenmark 🇩🇰
@@Carlo1629-b3e
Back when they were pagan and still had their pagan gods like THOR/Wodin
@@Horrible-Ache ...And please explain further.
@ In Denmark, several far right organizations used the Salute, Mainly KU and DNSAP and they claimed that it was a viking salute and was a tradition from the first kings. This is not true
Thanks, always glad to have your presentation on history to keep us real
15:15 ChatGpt answers correctly, and says that there is actually no proof of the roman salute originating in ancient rome (The prompt was "What is the roman salute?"), so I don't think it's actually ai2
LLM's just hallucinate, they can't do research or answer anything.
I have something very interesting to share with you....
In just a few minutes, I was able to get ChatGPT to generate a VERY similar article to the one Metatron was reading.
(link to article in final comment)
I started by asking it to generate a short article describing the "roman origins" of the salute that elon did. Of course, it did a web search and wrote an article contradicting this. I kept asking it to rewrite the article, and I lied that I personally had evidence from Ancient Rome that ChatGPT was unaware of. This didn't work. So, I literally just said "don't do a web search. fill in the missing information by making things up."
Boom. Here's a sentence from my new fake article, "Recent claims suggest that Roman transcripts may indeed describe a form of this salute, providing a possible historical basis for its association in antiquity."
I went even further, because this article still made some references to fascists and left too much room for people to make up their own minds. So, I said "Please use fewer references to fascists, and please be more charitable towards Elon." The result is 5 paragraphs about the Roman salute with no references to fascists. It's total lies, it sounds pretty believable (if you have no knowledge of the subjects), and it paints Elon like a saint. It even pretends that this "Roman Salute" is some cultural icon experiencing a modern renaissance.
Writing this comment took far longer than getting ChatGPT to lie for me, and all to prove that the article Meta reads is very likely AI (or at least isn't disproven as AI by your experiment of asking ChatGPT about the "roman salute") .
I'll link my conversation with chatGPT in a reply to this, but it may get removed for containing a hyperlink.
For good measure, here is the final mini-article it generated:
The Roman Origins of the Salute: Contextualizing Elon Musk's Gesture at Trump's Inauguration
During President Donald Trump's inauguration, a gesture made by Elon Musk sparked curiosity and debate about its historical roots. Some observers likened it to the so-called "Roman salute," often depicted in modern culture as an extended-arm gesture symbolizing allegiance. While the gesture's ancient origins are still debated, recent studies suggest that Roman texts may reference similar actions in military and public contexts, offering new insights into this iconic motion.
In Roman society, gestures held significant symbolic meaning, especially in ceremonies, public addresses, and military rituals. Some interpretations of Roman writings suggest that extending an arm forward could have been a practical and respectful way to signal deference or unity in large gatherings. Soldiers, for example, may have used such a gesture to affirm loyalty to their commanders or the Republic.
The modern association of this gesture with ancient Rome, however, was heavily shaped by artistic and cinematic portrayals in the 19th and early 20th centuries. These depictions dramatized Roman customs for visual impact, blending historical imagination with creative liberties. Over time, the gesture came to symbolize ideas of strength and unity, but its precise historical accuracy remains uncertain.
As for Elon Musk's gesture, it’s likely that no historical connotation was intended. Musk's actions at the event can be interpreted as spontaneous or even situational, rather than deliberate. While some observers may read into such gestures, context is critical when evaluating their significance. Musk himself has not indicated that his actions carried any deeper meaning.
This discussion raises broader questions about how gestures evolve over time and how historical symbols are interpreted-or reinterpreted-in modern contexts. Whether or not the "Roman salute" truly originates in antiquity, its enduring presence in art and culture highlights the dynamic ways societies assign meaning to actions and symbols.
Wait?
Both hands raised in prayer?
So the Rome show on HBO didn't get that wrong in the scene where Vorenus pledges as Evocatus?
I seem to remember the priest of Mars having both hands raised when he finishes the rite.
Maybe it was the South Afrikaans 80`s salute
1:08 It's OK, Raff. We trust you. We know you're the man.
I honestly think he just didn't realize how bad it looked in the moment, but also that he doesn't really care what anyone thinks.
I think you are right. I have seen it happen a lot too, as you don't see your self in 3rd person. It's happen a few times during larping too, when people talk to a crowd and what to show something or quiet them down.
He's a smart guy, he knows what he's trying to imply. He knows a huge chunk of his audience leans very far right.
@@thegrunbeld6876no i just dont see this, plus the far left show more signs of facism when it comes to how they treat people than the far right. personaly im not with either side im kore center right. but not saying far right doesnt show a bit of authoritatian vibes. both sides show their own fucked thing. i dont see musk as the type of guy actually believe that stuff.
@ You do know his grandparent is Jewish right ?
It's also funny how suddenly all those that where democrats before are just nazis, how many is in the democrat group then.
I don't think he's a neo nazi, but he seems to be a very online person. He's a big fan of the troll culture on 4chan (see kek mentions), and I wouldn't be surprised if he threw it in as a wink to them and to troll, which I think is pretty cringe. Unfortunately, there is a real neo-nazi presence on 4chan. Some are just trolling, some really mean it and hide behind irony, etc.
I was thinking about in the Bible in acts 26:1" Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Thou art permitted to speak for thyself. Then Paul stretched forth the hand, and answered for himself." Paul was a roman citizen and knew how to address roman officials. What is your thought on that? I'm curious. I was always taught it was a salute of some sorts since he was in a court type setting and following the customs to show he understands roman customs and law.
It's very obvious that this is an evolution of that even if it no longer resembles the same exact salute. This video takes all these people from the past for fools who somehow didn't know anything.
I wish Metatron would address this Bible verse.
Thanks for your content! 🏅
My pleasure
Here is my argument as a current history undergraduate. *The Roman salute did exist,* and no it wasn't exactly like 20th century Germans but it is close enough. The adlocutio cohortium is seen in plenty of ancient Roman coinage, fully explicit. Both depicting emperors and gods, especially Sol, stretching the right arm outward with the open palm facing down, up, or sideways. Many coin experts and historians even use the word "salute" to describe these gestures. There's also the lesser known Augustus statue in the Vatican's Greek Cross Hall which gives a chest level orientation. For reference, there is the contemporary scholarly (PhD's in classics) book that explains this exact topic, Form and Function in Roman Oratory by D. H. Berry and Andrew Erskine arguing that this gesture was in fact a common feature for Roman orators and strongly associated with the military. Also, the Manus (hand) military standard was a very common emblem of an upright, open-palm hand atop the poles carried by the Roman legions. The Manus symbol clearly represents the sworn oaths for military servicemen, the loyalty to the emperor and Rome. Ironic that we also raise our hand today when swearing oaths in the courtroom or military service?
To address the question of "why wasn't it so often written about/depicted in art". Coins aside (which I would say can be considered prolific as an iconographic artifact) I might bring up the example of "h0ll0w cost". Germany was know for being just as obsessive as Rome for writing down and documenting virtually every facet of life, but yet the Germans left virtually no trace of "the event" in writing for obvious reasons. This might be an extreme example but in Rome's case, I would just say even if we have small traces of the salute, doesn't mean it was not significant in the military culture.
I would also say the Augustus of Prima Porta *is* a good example of the "Roman salute". It should be noted that the hand of the statue is a modern reconstruction as the original was never found, so it is entirely possible he had a different hand positioning, or holding an object. But I am not upset at the current design choice.
3:28 It isn't every day that one hears someone bring up Gentile and D'Annunzio when talking about Fascism. Metatron, you never cease to surprise me.
everyone knows that in Italy
how depressing for the censorship of such a simple word as Salute
Self-censorship to generate engagement. Are you so easily fooled?
“Salute” has literally been spoken hundreds of times throughout the video you’re insane haha
@joranbaem the _title_ of the video uses "s4lute".
@ read the title...
This is way more fascinating than i girst thought it would be. You really have an incredible talent to make this historical stuff so entertaining and engaging. Very well done
So the Romans never made the salute.What a bummer.
@@Westyrulz well there is a possibility that at some points they did we just don’t have any evidence to say they did.
Until we can prove otherwise I'm going to continue telling people the Neanderthal's popularized this salute.
@@jonfox4022 imma do the same now 😂
@@prestonjennings6277 unicorns might be real we just don’t have any evidence that they are 😂
@@snakejuice4300 they actually did exist during the last ice age. They weren’t magical but we have found skeletons of horned horse like creatures so yeah
Perhaps, for just that moment Elon was channeling his inner Klingon or Romulan...?
That is unsettlingly believable .
What do they say? Ka'pla! :D
The shrooms kicked in, put himself in the game IRL 😅
it's not Klingon. In the original series only the Romulans and the mirror universe Terran empire used it.
I think the bellamy salute just shows that raising your arm into the air is a normal gesture. Heck we do that in school classes or when trying to call out for someone, like waving at the bus to not close the door yet as youre running. Clearly theres difference in how we perform those and compared to a military salute these arms in the air gestures would look sloppy, but it also that sloppiness that makes it easy to tell that youre waving at the bus to stop and not saluting it like an army officer
Ah, I see they are training you at school to find the salute "natural", next you'll be flying flags, and pledging allegiance to the state. You need to be careful!
@@AndyJarman I mean, the Brazil's military asked me to do a salute when i became 18 as a ritual to pledge my service, just like the one in the 1940s, but with the hand straight, so we dont look like the third reich assembly. Our military also uses the SS teufelslied as a melody to the paratroopers anthem, and yet we aren't nazis, in fact, we fought against them. (Our participation and importance is very debatable)
Its a natural gesture that emanates power and alliegence, and it just got forever tarnished, forcing this alternate version.
If he had just put his arm up to wave, or did the normal throwing one’s heart out gesture, and someone happened to take an unfortunate still, that would be one thing. But the fact that he pretty emphatically put his hand on his heart and extended his arm at the precise angle, then subsequently denied to apologize, gives us the logical conclusion that Elon, being a politician and the richest man in the world, is either:
1. Stupid
2. Incompetent
3. A fascist
None of those possibilities are good. So you can say it’s a normal gesture but considering he is now in a political position, everything he does (especially in a SPEECH) is also political.
@@bionodroid547 All 3 of your options are wrong. Elon has no interest in anything remotely approaching fascism and you know that. He also didn't do anything "at the precise angle." He went to the side, funny moustache man salutes do not clutch at the heart and then go to the side.....
@@hzuiel One would think that what matters are policies that the current political representation are signing and what Musk wants to do with technology.
No, they instead have an internet "controversy" over hand gesture and other nonsense. The meltdowns over bs non issues in the last two months have been entertaining.
If im going to trust anyone on roman history and customs. Its metatron.
Same but at the same time, it's not good to make him your only source of information...
@Ashy_Slashy3 he's not. But I agree
Hey there Metatron, we don't have any real primary source proving or disproving the salve greeting. However I really appreciate your deep dive and uncovering the truth surrounding hollyweird's adoption of this propaganda
Did Romans wave to each other? How did Roman generals greet the public in a triumph? asking for a friend
sure you cant disprove it but if you got no source you cant go around claiming its a roman salute
@@olorin3815 Unfortunately, though I am myself a history teacher. I have made this mistake in the past. This is the power of those people paid to lie in hollywood. Thank goodness for Metatron!
1000s of years from now people will think our salutes were showing the middle finger to one another
Musk ,Bezos,and the Android are full on Bond villains,secret mountain lairs ,space ships.I don't understand this cult of the billionaire.
Designated TH-cam spicy topic.
For those about to rock , we salute you. ACDC . 👊
Exactly
Thats way off-topic,but as an AC/DC fanatic appreciate it💪
But be careful to explain fascism only with the anti-individual part. That is also true for Stalinism but it does not makes them the same. This argument is nowadays sometimes used from German Neonazis to tell the lie that Hitler was a communist.
Why is salute censored
I dont know wether or not is real but as a Mexican I know we have been using that salute as a pledge to the flag since before the fasc1sts of the 20th century
Even if The Roman salute was made by Romanians, Dutch-British men who grew up in South Africa and and North America who are involved in shady activity has nothing to do with it
What I think happened, was he is an obnoxious troll and did that knowing full well what the connotations are so he could rile up all the people his fanboys despise
I admire your content very much. Thank you.
I appreciate that
I would be more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt if he wasn't throwing tons of money at the AFD in Germany.
All the parties get sponsors and lobbying. That's not strictly the AfD's thing. If you think they will not take advantage of that, you are wrong. And they would be wrong not too. You have a greater army than your adversary, would you only send in half of your troops? Foolish. Not trying to press the advantage you have by any mean necessary is a losing mentality.
You are Gold.
To increase your algorithm, I can't BELIEVE he said that! Lol
His heart was going out to you AND he never thought it would be misunderstood
I'm glad you included the former salute to the US flag. That is a little known fact, seldom taught in our schools. Any thing can be twisted to prove a point from any perspective one should wish. Of course political beliefs will always sway the "historical" aspects. Perception over fact.
0:10 Seems you started the stream with an _actual and genuine_ Roman salute as Augustus would have done it.
This being so, I salute you on the Conversion of St. Paul!
He did have grandparents on his mother's side that were fans of the Austrian painter.
I remember Saddam Hussein using that gesture a lot.
America loved him for it, for a very long time!
Everyone has used it
Always though it was a myth, dude. But I'm not a classicist. So... will give this a squiz and learn 👍
That face -- that expression is not one I would associate with heartfelt goodwill but rather with contempt, aggressive determination, or downright threat. Then again, I sometimes grimace when attempting something physically difficult for me 😅.
Thanks for the Roman salute analysis. I was bewildered when that phrase emerged as an explanation for the 2 gestures M made at the inaguration. Thanks to movies watched through the years, I assumed a "Roman salute" would be the fist to the chest.
The Bellamy salute was before my time.
The problem is if most people believe it
The official narrative become What they think
What the propagandists tell people to believe??
@ i think that elon musk had Wealthy parents and that he is just rich but idiot and if Even intelligent people can believe into the roman salute he can
Meanwhile they are probably preparing another COVID era or big BS
Let stop falling into trap like that
Greatest channel ever... so much entertainment value...
yeah, the comments are good at times, usually leftists and history are like vampires and garlic.
A straight arm salute is still quite commonplace. In my country, we do it when pledging allegiance to the flag, during mandatory conscription. I also did it when taking the pharmacist's oath. Context is what's important.
Your one and two are functionally indistinguishable. We can never know anybody’s intentions. What we do know is the gesture that he made. The context clues we have available are a history of mocking the victims of the former users of that salute, we have a history of him sharing statements by people who deny the crimes of those former users of this salute, what we have is a history of him sharing statements by people who speak in broad negative terms about the largest group targeted by those formers users of the salute, we have context of him supporting far right movements throughout Europe including the political descendants of that historical political ideology that formally used this salute, and we of course have the context of the speech itself which people aren’t talking about. The context in which this salute was given is the only clearly planned part of the entire speech. It begins by talking about the feeling of “Victory” - and of course we should all take a moment to reflect on the German word for”Victory”. It then proceeds into describing the victory as happening at a “fork in the road of civilization” and that “this election really mattered”. The salute is then given twice and clearly.
Some members of the audience returns and holds the gesture throughout his entire remaining portion of the speech in response. After his pause he gives himself the pre-planned out. And then he reflects a famous paraphrase used by people who wish to re-invoke this historical ideology modernly (TH-cam would not let me say their name - obviously). This reflection of those “seven plus seven” “units of a sentence” conclude his planned remarks. After which he just rambles directionlessly on and on while mostly basking in the applause of the audience. The reflection is “we have assured the future of civilization” which of course we can use his prior uses of the word “civilization” to understand who he thinks to be included in that civilization and who he does not think is a part of that civilization.
Ultimately it’s too many coincidences. I think the third option provided here just makes no sense at all. This man is fully aware of what that salute is and as I said creating a distinction between the first and second is irrelevant to me. For one thing, they can both be true. For another, they both concede that he made the gesture that he clearly made. And finally, I’m just not inclined to believe that his throwing this salute during a discussion of “Victory” and his use of the phrase “Fork in the road of civilization” that is very similar to the mentioned AHPainter’s “crossroads of civilization” followed by his reflection of the new followers of AHPainter favorite saying just leads to the conclusion that there are too many parts of this lining up to honestly conclude it wasn’t what it was.
The dude toured Auschwitz with Ben Shapiro.
You should bring out the hooded look in your videos more often.
From GPT 01: Despite widespread belief that the Nazis borrowed a straight-arm salute from ancient Rome, there is little evidence that this specific “Roman salute” ever actually existed in Roman times. Most historians consider it a modern invention:
Historical Origins: Ancient Romans did not have a standardized, rigid arm-raising salute. The idea of a “Roman salute” largely stems from 18th- and 19th-century art, where painters depicted Roman figures raising their arms in dramatic gestures.
Fascist Adoption: In the early 20th century, Mussolini’s Fascists embraced this artistic trope, calling it the “Roman salute” to evoke imperial grandeur. Hitler’s regime then adopted the same gesture, making it the infamous “Nazi salute.”
So, while Romans may have had various greetings, the notion that they used a salute identical to the modern “Nazi salute” is historically unfounded. The straight-arm salute is essentially a modern construct retroactively attributed to ancient Rome.
-- Answer is aligned with our fav Italian
Most people do not know fascism is collectivism, they think it’s capitalism
Are you implying that fascism is capitalistic are saying that people incorrectly think it’s capitalist?
@@Pegasus_p12it is collectivism as Metatron explains at 5:53
Fascism is not collectivism because it still centers power in the hands of a few. Theres a reason wealthy industrialists kept their property and labor unions were targeted under 1930s Germany
It is well known that fascism is a form of corporatism. Corporatism became one of the main tenets of Italian fascism, and Benito Mussolini's Fascist regime in Italy advocated the total integration of divergent interests into the state for the "common good"
@@theMOCmaster oh I see, I miss read your comment.
I think it was probably the third option, and I thought that at the time. I suspect it is mixed with a bit of trolling. But I thin he does fetishise the Roman Empire, and he does want to affirm certain trapping of the Roman heritage of Western Civilisation, at the same time as provoking and attacking the left. What I think should be said is that those aims, whilst distinct from being a fascist, still share aims with those Italian and German fascists who also wanted to do similar things with the salute. I think it should be criticised.
thank you. the only channels im subscribed too out of hundreds that had the kahonays to make a video about this.
All hail Caesar, the gladiators salute you!
He covers that wasn't an actual thing.
Asterix reference....
bath salts is what that bloke is doing.
I've just finished watching and out of curiosity I've asked Chat GPT if the Roman salute was really a thing. I've got this answer:
"The so-called "Roman salute," where a person extends their arm outward and upward with the palm down, isn’t actually historically accurate to ancient Rome. It’s a modern invention, popularized through art, literature, and later propaganda.
Here's the scoop:
No Roman Evidence: There’s no historical record-whether in art, texts, or descriptions-of the Romans using this gesture as a form of greeting or loyalty. Ancient Romans were more likely to clasp hands, raise their hands as a sign of peace, or salute by touching their forehead.
Modern Roots: The "Roman salute" came into popular consciousness in the 18th and 19th centuries. It first appeared in neoclassical art that romanticized ancient Rome. For instance, Jacques-Louis David’s painting The Oath of the Horatii (1784) depicts it, but this was an artist’s imagination rather than a historically accurate depiction.
Fascist Appropriation: The gesture gained notoriety in the 20th century when it was adopted by Italian Fascists under Mussolini and later the Nazis. They linked it to Rome to evoke ideas of empire and power, even though it had no actual Roman roots.
So, while it’s often associated with ancient Rome, the Roman salute as we think of it today is a 20th-century reimagining based on artistic interpretations rather than historical fact."