We need to remember that Angelus is always there, under the surface. The drugs basically put Angel to sleep and allowed Angelus to take the wheel for a bit.
I'm sure that was the purpose of this episode, especially for viewers new to the Buffyverse, they need to be aware of the threat. It also explains why he doesn't emote much.
@UCnoEUdiqPPdl5QHuJIuWI0Q also, the series has a strong addiction theme, similar to Buffy's growing up theme. Angelus represents Angels drunk persona. This episode was basically a relapse.
Closer look: right before Angel "goes to sleep" and Angelus takes over, you can see David Boreanez start tearing up. Like Angel could feel his soul shutting down, before Angelus comes through, like his freakout in the alleyway after innocence/becoming from Buffy season 2.
The play Cordelia is in at the beginning is called A Dolls House by Henrik Ibsen, a very famous Norwegian Play Write. If you haven't seen his works, you should, they are very good. A Dolls House, Hedda Gabler, and An Enemy of the People.
Someone with a positive reaction to this episode?! For some reason people who watch it don't usually like it but I love it. And I'm glad you liked it as well!
The way Wes and Cordy knocked Angel out and chained him up is what Buffy should have done back in season 2 when they were fighting outside of the mall.
she was too emotionally invested and that was soon after he had turned, she wasn't up for that or thinking clearly, still in shock. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say. Wes and Cordy had time to at least prepare a little although if Cordy was telling the truth and not bluffing as she did, would have been wise for her to stash some holy water in her water bottle
@@arielcarmona6660 I know Buffy was too emotional to think of that in that moment it's just every time I watch that scene and she walks away I'm like no tie him up don't just leave him there. If I was Cordy I would being hiding holy water around the office from now on, maybe in some spray bottles or little water guns.
I agree this was one of the standout episodes of the first season for me. It's so cool how David can switch from Angel to Angelus like flicking on a switch, phenomenal acting imo in an episode about fame and acting. I don't find famous people that interesting but that may be because I grew up in LA where running into celebrities is just a part of life, but that was portrayed well. This episode also did a good job of showing how much Angel has to struggle with denying his desires, we got a good look at how lonely he is without human contact.
If you look at the soul as the capacity for conscience, it becomes the superego. I took it as the drug temporarily repressed Angel's superego. Every day he makes a choice to repress the demon inside him - Angelus. But the drug took away his capacity to repress him. When you think of it like that, Angel's brooding and world weariness makes a lot of sense. He's not just remembering and feeling guilt for what he's done; he's constantly battling not to do those things again. How exhausting.
Which is how most ppl feel. Once you make a choice, you become a person capable of making that choice. One thing I love about Angel, his life is constantly working on not being a bad person. Like an addict choosing to stay sober another day. The show is all about the, "what matters is the things we do!" And Angel does the work.
As someone with anxiety and a severe depressive disorder, this rings true. Some days are better, some worse, but you essentially fight your own negatve voices every day.
Predator Stalker definitely describes Angel. He is a Sadist so the Stalking is part of that, you can't truly hurt someone if you don't truly know them.
The best theory I've heard is that the drug temporarily suppressed Angel, allowing Angelus to surface for a short while. It's not perfect, but it works for me. If I ignore a few minor plot holes.
@@alleybox Even with a soul, he's still a vampire with an inherently demonic and violent nature inside him. It's only natural that a psychotropic drug that lowers inhibitions could bring it out. Don't give happy pills to bloodsucking vampires! .
He mentioned in an episode of Buffy how there's a part of him who longs to set Angelus free and he has to constantly struggle against it. I would say it didn't so much suppress Angel as it suppressed his better judgement.
I think Rebecca was a bit of a nihilist. She was unfazed by bad things happening to her because the worst thing was already happening. She was being forgotten. I got a feeling even if Angel explained that becoming a vampire means she would still end up dead and a demon takes over her body she wouldn't have cared.
Angel and Buffy were those shows for me when I was in middle school and high school. I was sooo obsessed with them, and obviously am still slightly obsessed. I used to be so excited for the school day to be over with so I could go onto forums and chat with other fans about the show. I learned early on that I have a personality that tends to easily get obsessed with things and have eventually learned how to keep it in check. I can see how that type of personality mixed with some mental instability could lead to taking the obsession too far. Anyways I love your reaction videos and look forward to them each week, it’s wonderful to live through you vicariously watching these shows for the first time.
It was more so just a way to get Angelus to interact with Cordy and Wes without doing a full arc. For Angel to essentially pick at their insecurities and reveal his inner thoughts
Really interesting point about how fan culture intersects with stalking. I think that kind of unhinged obsession can definitely be seen in the verbal violence and vitriol fan culture sometimes produces e.g. death threats to writers or when an unwanted female love interest is brought on board.
It's not just fan culture, a lot of the press and TV coverage of famous and not-so-famous people crosses the line into stalking. They may claim it's what their readers want, but their opinion pieces can seem unhinged. The freelances who stake out an individual for months or years are difficult to distinguish from stalkers, as are the editors who buy their work or send out their own reporters. That's why there is limited coverage of this issue in the media.
Y'know, it always made a certain amount of sense to me that Ms. Cordelia "Tact Is Just Not Saying True Stuff" Chase MAYBE wouldn't find ACTING of all thing all that easy a vocation to fall into actually lol. If only it had been a decade or so later, maybe she coulda found a following as an influencer instead XD
An alternative to soul suppression is like, the magic of the spell/curse keeps his soul unnaturally tied to the vampire/ dead body; since reaching pure happiness breaks the spell/ releases the soul, the chemicals kind of loosened the spell's grip on the soul, like it floated away a bit but the ties were still there and got stronger as the drugs left his system. But i think the drugs weakening/knocking out Angel and the demon taking over while he was weak is just as good :)
I didn't feel like Rebecca really liked Angel himself, though. She was attracted to him being a vampire and what she thought he could bring her - immortality. Unlike Buffy, i.e. someone who really loved him, who didn't even notice he had his vamp face on until he pointed it out. Angel definitely does have form with experiencing love at first sight, but it didn't quite come off as that for me. The chemistry wasn't there for me.
I agree mostly she was just using him for her own selfish reasons although I do think she was attracted to him before he turned evil and you know tried to murder her LOL
I think they do had chemistry and were both attracted to each other. Which can be the first step to love, but it doesn't has to be. And Angel at this point is not sure if having a sexual relationship with someone he is attracted to and could potentially fall in love with would trigger him or not. As Wes pointed out: true happiness needs more. But it is quite risky to test that theory.
One of my favorite episodes is amazing , I love David playing Angel but when he plays Angelus he's unbelievably cool.for me this idea was perfect I loved it,it is only a suggestion he did not lose his soul. for me it's great idea.
I hadn't really thought of this story as a multi-parter, but now that you describe it I could definitely see how that might have worked. It is intriguing to think of movie start acting like groupie. Being so used to everyone knowing you only by a persona and than being drawn to someone more reclusive for the same reason. It actually kind of work you remembering the character by her 'character name' before recalling her real name. Like she's so used to this role she might not even know her self that well anymore. The thing about narcissism is that's not really love of ones-self but love of persona. Which as actually why many famous people that we think of as having a high opinion of themselves are actually very prone to self-harming tendencies. Narcissistic people actually tend to have a very low self-image. Which could mean the mindset of a star actress obsessed with her image and a desperate fan obsessed with meeting the one behind the image might actually have a lot in common and not in a good way. What's ironic in this case is that Angel literally has NO reflection. He suggestions something freeing to Rachel because he representations a separation from aging a the fading of image that young actresses are often taught to fear. Hope that doesn't sound to rambled. What you said just really got my mind rushing. Great work as usual Alley.
"Women" / He totally mirrored Spike in "School Hard" here, didn't he (after Joyce hit him with an axe)? Like sire like progeny. Stalkers are terrifying, especially with how difficult it is to legally get anything actually effective done about them. "Oh, they just like you". Um, nope, they ruin lives.
As pointed out in the comments, there are a lot of different head canons why he turned to angelus without losing his soul completly. My take is that angel (with a soul) never was ever happy because once this happens he loses his soul. So taking drugs and becoming happy in terms of hormones had a placebo effect on him. He thought he was going to lose his soul so he acted like angelus. Since angel as a series is a methaphor for an recovering alcoholic, he lost his control over his actions and acted like the beast he fears to become (and still has inside him). The temptation is always there and he could actively choose to hurt people. I mean humans do have souls and can still be murderers and stuff. It's like the ultimate excuse to let loose and do what your id tells you to do
Totally loving your reactions to buffy and Angel you actually make me cry laughing with your words 😅 & thanks for interlocking both series.... now I just can't wait for you to get to series 6 of buffy 😮😅
So, now I watched the whole video and I love it. Your stalking and fan "review/rant" was perfect! This kind of information and your thoughts, as a psych student no less, are one of the reasons you are one of my top 3 reactors. And the editing of cause :D
On the topic of stalkers and Angel. If you refer back to season 2 of Buffy and read through the psychology of stalkers. And look at Angelus and his behaviour. He pretty much checks all the boxes. And when you follow Angel through Buffy and into his own show. Angel frequently displays those tendencies. Just not to the extent that Angelus brings. There are elements that bleed over and blend between them. They are two sides of the same coin. It's interesting going back and rewatching Buffy and Angel through this lens. It's a little unnerving. Also back in (I want to say) 2014/15 there was a show call Stalker. Not a reaction request. Just a recommend because you seem to find the subject interesting.
So there is precedent for Angel being evil when heis high: when he bits Buffy and other women in Amends and Somnambulist. I really appreciate this episode more for the fact they built to this climax for over a year.
We did have a lot of versions of stalkers in not only buffy verse but also in this first season of Angel with the Russle (e1) and then the doctor in "I Fall to Pieces" ... Now that I think about it there's too many to name ...
That actress also played Morrigan on Hercules: The Legendary Journeys, who could turn into a raven. The play Cordy was acting in was "The Doll's House", a real play, by the way. When would Angel have explained things to Rebecca? When he realized what she wanted from him, he was already under the effects of the drug and losing his coherence and getting angry with her. The way Supernatural went downhill, I kept hoping it would be cancelled so that the actors could be on better shows. .
Re: stalking. It may be "interesting," but it doesn't just happen to celebrities or famous people. And it absolutely sucks to be on the receiving end of it.
S1 of Angel also known as "let's experiment and pair Angel with random one-off women that he has no real chemistry with or narrative proof of liking, but we'll make sure the audience knows they're love interests because another character will say he likes them or we'll make her spine glow".
There is no gain without loss. If you enjoy a well writen character, you'll despise if that well write character changes into something you don't enjoy. It is an equivalent exchange. You can't just enjoy all without also gaining the posibility of losing it all. BUT, you can learn how to move over faster, to let go, and to enjoy other things. Anything enjoyable has already access to our emotions, and it can be for good or bad. Trying to avoid the bad is what leads to depresion because we also lose the good. Learning to deal with the bad is the only way to keep the good. Good luck!
You know... turning someone into a vampire and IMMEDIATELY giving them a soul before they eat anyone should be legit. Trouble is I don't know how hard that spell is. Willow could cast it as a novice... but it's WILLOW. So that means nothing.
I think they tailor-made the curse for Angel and it wouldn't work on just anyone. Besides, I don't think anyone should have their desire for immortality as an undead bloodsucker indulged. .
@@TheNoybusiness I certainly think 'was willing to drug Angel' is a much better indication she shouldn't be immortal than anything about the curse being super-specific.
Remember that "fan" is short for fanatic. For some people, the longer word, with all its connotation, is more appropriate. On the other hand, there are celebrities that take advantage of the attention and the fanatics that bestow it. Hopefully, by a certain age, you learn to treat people as people, no more and no less.
So, my thoughts on the soul matter amount to: The demon is inside Angel at all times. His soul is what gives him the ability to keep the demon contained and make choices other than what the demon wants. The drug didn't give him true happiness and remove his soul; it just made him so blissed out that he couldn't contain the demonic nature (or care about the consequences of giving the demon what it wants.) If he had truly lost his soul, he would need to be cursed again, but this is just a taste of what happens if he's not actively engaged in suppressing that demon who shares his mind and body. Regarding the fandom culture discussions and extremely high standards: I think in some ways it stems from the way the internet has socialized a lot of us. On pretty much any social platform and most entertainment platforms we're curating these feeds that are so specifically tailored to our own standards, with little if any upsetting content. And that's a functional tool in the social media space, but it can get taken to extremes. People who are online a lot get very used to that way of interacting with the world. When you see content you don't like, you unfollow or block. You get your incoming stimuli so perfectly balanced to your standards that even the slightest deviation can become disproportionately upsetting. It's not unlike a child state. An adult drops a cookie on the floor and they're like "aw man, I'm really disappointed, I wanted to eat that cookie, oh well, gotta move on." A child drops a cookie on the floor and it is quite literally the worst thing that has happened in their entire life. They don't have worse experiences to compare against in their memory. They don't have the perspective, life experience, logic, or frontal cortex development to think through the fact that this is survivable and they'll probably be able to get another cookie at a later time. There is just the overwhelming stimulus of the worst event they've ever experienced. The extremely online people with carefully curated content feeds end up in a similar situation. Maybe the disappointment from someone they idolize isn't literally the worst event in all of their memory, but they process it as the worst thing in recent memory, maybe the worst thing in years. If they have other underlying emotional, behavioral, or mental health issues, those can compound the problems. They could become obsessed with trying to solve the problem of the disappointment, or fixated on revenge for what they feel they've lost. Even the extremely online people can overcome these issues with mindfulness and awareness that our near-perfect feeds are not the way the whole world actually works and our high standards for a content feed cannot realistically be our standards for all human interaction.
Yeah, I've thought for a while now that there are negative aspects to the fact that on social media you can block out any interaction you don't want to have, which you couldn't in the age where you had to deal with everyone face-to-face. .
Stalkers appear quite a bit in the buffyverse if you think about it. Angel episode 4. Buffy episode 11 with the invisible girl. Angel himself removed from humanity for so long kinda stalked buffy at first if you think about it. Alfred Adler talked about how the most important thing to humanity was human connection. So in a way it kinda makes sense, like you said. Stalkers might not have the ability to form connection but it doesn't stop them from craving those connection regardless. On celebrity stalkers: I actually think we are moving in a positive way in this regard. The average person can on TH-cam or wherever share their life and build a fan base. More and more people are learning about the life of celebrities. In this way it equalizes and humanizes all of us. Of course many also put people like their significant others on pedestal. Which immediately creates a power dynamic and is toxic for both parties. Definately interesting to think about, Alley. Now I'm curious to find out if there are studies on these types of stalkers in terms there being a correlation between the types and different personalities disorders.
55 years ago, when I began elementary school (pre-K and kindergarten were not common then) my first grade teacher noticed that I was squinting very hard to see what she was writing on the board. When I then got my first glasses, I was literally delighted by what I was able to see, in focus, with no squinting, and literally for the first time. I carry two pairs of back-up specs (older prescriptions, but will allow me to at least avoid accidents) in my daily driver, because if my glasses break, I am technically sort of blind (myopia) - 4 1/2 diopters in one eye, 5.25 in the other, both with astigmatism. I'm not complaining, I'm waiting another couple of years and will get my lenses (actual ones, not glasses ones) replaced, which should fix it all.
Slightly different from celebrity stalking but some one I knew at University got stalked. I don't know much about it but he knew where she lived and it was terrifying for her.
Your glasses are like the goldfish that died when you were 6 but you didn't know it because your parents replaced it with a goldfish that looked exactly the same...
Despite the plotholes the size of Manhattan, I actually like this episode. There are a lot of reasons set up in Buffy that it shouldn't work this way- most drugs don't work on vampires unless they're in the blood of the person they're feeding from (Spike, S2), there was no "loss/gain of soul" animation like they used in Buffy S3, there's no reason why drugs should be "bliss" for a man with the kind of guilt Angel has and a bad trip makes a lot more sense, they set up solidly in Buffy that it's emotional happiness and not physical happiness that triggers the spell catch, etc. Even with all that though, I do think it was a useful episode for showing new Angel viewers exactly what the stakes are if Angelus gets loose on LA, and I liked the inclusion of the actress begging to be changed and how even thinking you want it, you'll change your mind when you really know what it means. I just wish they'd found a more canon-compliant way to do that kind of plotline, rather than like... 'drugs did it'. That's a pretty huge weakness he didn't have before. Also, shouldn't he have been able to smell it or taste it??? Most of the drugs I can think of that would cause "bliss" are uh... not subtle.
RE: how it was then vs now... I think a lot of the (perceived?) extremeness today comes from the access to information and the celebrity (through soc media and other). In the nineties, unless you were committed to putting the “work” into being an extreme stalker, all the information you received was from magazines and other PR moves the celebrity might make: the only 'real them' you knew about was the face they presented to the world or the occasional tabloid. You also didn’t necessarily have easy access to other people who were as obsessed as you were. Today celebrities, like everyone else, are putting *themselves* out there, letting everyone have access into their homes, thoughts and lives. The difference of course, is that the likelihood of attracting a stalker-like personality exponentially increases when you have millions of followers. Like so many things nowadays, it’s easier to be a borderline stalker because all the information is literally at your fingertips. Anyway, that’s just how I see it… 😁
I think there's a Union Rule that every tv show about vampires has to have at least one episode where an actress wants to be turned so they can keep their youth and continue acting forever. This show, _Moonlight,_ _Forever Knight,_ etc. Speaking of _Forever Knight,_ the female lead of that show had to basically retire from acting due to a stalker.
You went a bit tangential at the end there, but it was quite interesting. I think the Internet has made it a lot easier for to people to indulge in their fandoms - before that it was just postal fanzines or possibly BBSes for the more tech-savvy. The first Internet-based fan thing I can remember was based around the X-Files in the late 90s, which was when web browsers started supporting more graphical elements and people could put some effort into making their web pages look good.
Angel didn't really do two-parters much at this stage. There is continuity, but most stories are complete in themselves, you don't have to have seen the others (except to explain what happened to Doyle and why Cordy has the visions now)
I want to know how Angel shows up in a film picture. I can see a case for digital cameras but film is similar to a mirror. And a SLR camera uses mirrors.
Idk. Technically modern mirrors really should be a problem though. Back in history, mirrors were polished silver and silver was meant to represent purity. When someone was looking at their reflection the mirror was supposed to be reflecting their soul. Since Vampires are soulless monsters they would not have a reflection in silver. But since modern mirrors no longer use silver, vampires should cast a reflection.
All theatre depends on a willing suspension of disbelief. Vampires require just a little more. The mumbo jumbo about souls makes as little sense in relation to vampires as it does in theology.
@@GregInHouston2 I suppose it's just an adherence to Whedon's lore. Every vampire movie, novel or series has it's own version of the lore. I loved when they introduced Dracula into BtVS with all the traditional vampire powers and Spike just scoffs at it as "fancy gypsy mojo".
@@arielcarmona6660 I agree, I prefer Buffy and Firefly to Dollhouse, but I was specifically talking about her reaction to this episode and the themes it brings up. I don't want to say too much in the comments in case she does watch the show, but yeah, this was a specific recommendation based on how much she liked this episode
I have seen people say that the mythology behind Angel losing his soul gets messed up here. But I highly disagree. I don't think Angel actually loses his soul. I think the Doximal simulates bliss so well that he doesn't feel any guilt, which is what actually makes him lose his soul [although the characters don't know that]). The Doximal masks the fact that he still has a soul. That's why the Angelus of this episode doesn't quite act like the Angelus we know from previous episodes. There is also nothing saying drugs won't effect vampires. We already know vampires don't like the taste of steroids. So there is nothing saying drugs wouldn't effect them. And drugs wear off. We don't know how they can work without blood-flow, but the same can be said for sex. How was Angel able to "perform" without blood-flow to the lower region? That's nota head-canon question I care to get into. Even Angel is a little disappointed the newspaper article isn't about his save of Rebbecca. Angel's a Frank Langella fan. 😀 I love Bela Legosi best, but cannot deny Frank Langella was great.
Angel did get hit by a car. The people standing there don't know his a vampire and will be fine. If that happened today it would be all over the internet.
Lol supernatural fandom is insane indeed, same for tvd. I love these fantasy types of shows and can really get into it and excited about it but don't get involved in the fandoms cause most of the time these are filled with people who can't seperate reality from fiction anymore. Like people hating an actor and scold them irl because of the character they played, so weird.
I think part of the problem is that English doesn't have more words for love. Just the word "love". I heard someone saying that there were six words in ancient Greek. We have to add a load of adjectives and explanation to specify what kind of feeling anyone has. I do feel like it's a problem for adolescent boys because girls will say they "love" you when what they mean is that they're fond of a friend, or just someone they've grown up with because they're familiar, or because they like something they just said, or because they have the same music taste or something. Actually this is a problem regardless of gender. Like at that age it's really hard for anyone not to start thinking in relationship terms if anyone remotely attractive shows them any attention. But anyway, we need more terms. Especially when people jump to the conclusion that if someone says "I love you", the other person is obligated to reciprocate, because dumb romance dramas give that impression.
to understand this episode you need to understand what a soul is to Whedon and in the Buffyverse. the soul is the human fundamental freedom, between stimulus and response, humanity is free to choose. in the Buffyverse losing the soul is the loss of this freedom. a vampire cannot choose to be anything other than what the demonic impulses want them to be. with his soul present angel can choose (thought strong character and great effort) to be decent and act against the demon, but suppress his ability to choose with narcotics and he can't choose anymore, and angelus is released. essentially wesley is wrong - this had nothing to do with the curse.
31:00 Yeah what did you expect? Hollywood had never seen a concept it didn't want to milk for a few dollars more. Then again sometimes prequels are good, Young Sheldon for an example was way better than Big Bang Theory. If the Supernatural prequel is about them hunting ghosts and monsters again and ditches the melodramatic angels and demons stuff it might be good. I didn't like supernatural after the second season. I think I stopped watching after the third. I think it's because I come from an atheist majority country and I prefer my urban fantasy not being tied to a specific religion. Supernatural season 3 onward feels so... American.
Stalker: Imagine you watch a movie. You like/dislike the actress - you decide to watch all her stuff... While you watch, you think about her... you seem to see the person behind the "mask". Then there is some article, talking about her newest break-up - you can see that they don't know her, they just use her for her fame. You start making deeper emotional connections to "HER" - a picture of her that you (completely) built in your mind... a picture, necessarily more accurate than all "HER" presence in the media. You know her BETTER. Many people reach THIS point... THEN the real trouble starts. It is easy to obsess, our media is partially built for that - it needs strong feelings to go forward into the "real trouble". Suffering f.e. produces strong feelings. And suffering is mostly initiated by some form of aggressor. oO.
Quite the rant but I find psychology interesting too, what makes Peter Venkman tick? Do you find it weird that on social media people that connect are all called Followers? Very stalky. Most people I communicate with on Twitter specify No DMs. I've had a few people as soon as you Follow them they start DMing as if you're their new best friend. I don't have the time.
There was a Animaniacs short, Please Please Please Get a Life, that criticized this obsessive behavior. I don't think doing a weekly series qualifies, and god knows I get obsessive myself (at the moment XCOM modded). But it does happen, Sarah Michelle Geller was subject to it, so it's worth addressing. With Angelus I'm wondering if it was all an act as a way to scare Rebecca. He seemed more bouncing off the walls than savage, like he was playing it up or doing a parody.
@@jamie7398 This was Angelus while high...more prone to being silly than vicious. Spike alluded to feeding on a flower girl and being all mellow and calm, and Wesker from the Resident Evil games, when pumped up with some vaccine to counteract the virus it made him, basically, drunk as in teen boy on testosterone drunk. Yeah, I buy it.
I agree with you about fanstan culture. Stalking and stanning the actors is weird. They're just people. What a weird job that people fixate on you as a result of you working? wtf Oh and stanning characters to be holy when you have no idea where the writers are going to take them, then being mad at the writers when the character turns into a slasher or something lol the stantasy... it's yikes but it's real and you're the grad student (and thanks for stopping to talk about psych stuff/this)... how do we get this conversation going when pretty much fan culture is purely stan culture now
Seeing theories about how getting drugged temporarily brought Angelus. Here's one: The curse was built so that his conscience would torment him. That's why "a moment if pure happiness" breaks the curse: because that's a point where he doesn't feel guilt. So it makes sense: being under drugs' influence, he's not in a state of mind to feel guilt either, and that affects the curse. I also wanna say, I think people speak too often about Angel and Angelus being 2 different beings. They really are not. The presence or not of a soul only gives the vampire his conscience, but that's about it! Not as huge a difference as people might thing! Like, remember Angel's reaction when Buffy said to Willow that a vampire's personality has nothing to do with who they were as human? The reality is that's the opposite; they are very similar. Just wanted to throw that out there, because it bugs me a little that people makes Angel and Angelus two different persons when they aren't...
That's not accurate at all. When Darla drained Liam's blood, she killed him and Liam went to the afterlife. Feeding him her blood summoned a demon to possess his corpse. When the curse was placed on Angelus, Liam was pulled out of the afterlife and shoved back into his body. Angelus was trapped in a corner of Liam's mind, able to perceive everything that Angel perceives but unable to act. A reverse of the usual demonic possession. Angelus bears a resemblance to Angel because he has Liam's memories and his personality 'software' is running on Liam's brain's 'hardware'. But it's only a resemblance. They are 100% separate entities.
Wesley's explanation of "oh it's just chemicals, it's artificial, not real" never made sense to me. Isn't any "real" feeling just chemicals in the brain? Like, it would feel the same, why does the source of the feeling matter? But I like Alley's theory and some comments I've seen :D
There's a difference between feeling like you're at peace and actually being at peace. A drug isn't a good-enough reason to be perfectly happy, especially since it's inherently temporary. Also, his brain chemicals have been manipulated; the happiness doesn't come from within.
The 'lore' around the curse makes absolutely no sense here. Just accept that this is how they wanted it to work for this episode and then never think about it again (the writers clearly don't). Otherwise, you'll drive yourself nuts thinking about the continuity.
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We need to remember that Angelus is always there, under the surface. The drugs basically put Angel to sleep and allowed Angelus to take the wheel for a bit.
"The line separating good and evil passes but right through every human heart"
I'm sure that was the purpose of this episode, especially for viewers new to the Buffyverse, they need to be aware of the threat. It also explains why he doesn't emote much.
I don't get why the soul just didn't leave
@UCnoEUdiqPPdl5QHuJIuWI0Q also, the series has a strong addiction theme, similar to Buffy's growing up theme. Angelus represents Angels drunk persona. This episode was basically a relapse.
@@alicequinn505 Because the happiness wasn't genuine, that's why. It was drug induced, false, and thus the soul remained.
"I'll torture you for a few unbelievably long hours and you can tell me if this is lifestyle for you." Classic!
As far as I'm concerned, throwing Angelus down an elevator is the moment Wesley officially became a bad ass.
nah he was a bad ass too the previous ep when he went up against those ring guys
@@arielcarmona6660 I was thinking that one made me think, “Wait. Is Wesley a badass?” Then this episode was the, “Badass confirmed.” episode.
He is a rogue demon hunter after all
In S1 Wesley is badass but only when people aren't looking. Later he's just regular badass
@@Sforschondetta What’s a rogue demon? 😜
Closer look: right before Angel "goes to sleep" and Angelus takes over, you can see David Boreanez start tearing up. Like Angel could feel his soul shutting down, before Angelus comes through, like his freakout in the alleyway after innocence/becoming from Buffy season 2.
omggg 😭😭😭
The play Cordelia is in at the beginning is called A Dolls House by Henrik Ibsen, a very famous Norwegian Play Write. If you haven't seen his works, you should, they are very good. A Dolls House, Hedda Gabler, and An Enemy of the People.
Someone with a positive reaction to this episode?! For some reason people who watch it don't usually like it but I love it. And I'm glad you liked it as well!
The way Wes and Cordy knocked Angel out and chained him up is what Buffy should have done back in season 2 when they were fighting outside of the mall.
Hindsight is 20/20. 😂
she was too emotionally invested and that was soon after he had turned, she wasn't up for that or thinking clearly, still in shock. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say. Wes and Cordy had time to at least prepare a little although if Cordy was telling the truth and not bluffing as she did, would have been wise for her to stash some holy water in her water bottle
@@arielcarmona6660 I know Buffy was too emotional to think of that in that moment it's just every time I watch that scene and she walks away I'm like no tie him up don't just leave him there. If I was Cordy I would being hiding holy water around the office from now on, maybe in some spray bottles or little water guns.
@@jamie7398 the holy water pistol is the one thing I really really miss in Buffy. It would have been the perfect weapon for the slayerettes.
I loved your suspenseful reveal of your new glasses. Same kind. Haha 😄
I agree this was one of the standout episodes of the first season for me. It's so cool how David can switch from Angel to Angelus like flicking on a switch, phenomenal acting imo in an episode about fame and acting. I don't find famous people that interesting but that may be because I grew up in LA where running into celebrities is just a part of life, but that was portrayed well. This episode also did a good job of showing how much Angel has to struggle with denying his desires, we got a good look at how lonely he is without human contact.
If you look at the soul as the capacity for conscience, it becomes the superego. I took it as the drug temporarily repressed Angel's superego. Every day he makes a choice to repress the demon inside him - Angelus. But the drug took away his capacity to repress him. When you think of it like that, Angel's brooding and world weariness makes a lot of sense. He's not just remembering and feeling guilt for what he's done; he's constantly battling not to do those things again. How exhausting.
Which is how most ppl feel. Once you make a choice, you become a person capable of making that choice. One thing I love about Angel, his life is constantly working on not being a bad person. Like an addict choosing to stay sober another day. The show is all about the, "what matters is the things we do!" And Angel does the work.
As someone with anxiety and a severe depressive disorder, this rings true. Some days are better, some worse, but you essentially fight your own negatve voices every day.
Predator Stalker definitely describes Angel. He is a Sadist so the Stalking is part of that, you can't truly hurt someone if you don't truly know them.
The best theory I've heard is that the drug temporarily suppressed Angel, allowing Angelus to surface for a short while. It's not perfect, but it works for me. If I ignore a few minor plot holes.
yeah like it makes sense if u dont look too much into it, so ill let it pass haha
@@alleybox he hever lost his soul officially as Wesley explained but it showed how even temporary bliss can bring out the demon in him.
@@alleybox Even with a soul, he's still a vampire with an inherently demonic and violent nature inside him. It's only natural that a psychotropic drug that lowers inhibitions could bring it out. Don't give happy pills to bloodsucking vampires!
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He mentioned in an episode of Buffy how there's a part of him who longs to set Angelus free and he has to constantly struggle against it. I would say it didn't so much suppress Angel as it suppressed his better judgement.
@@DaDunge Exactly.
I think Rebecca was a bit of a nihilist. She was unfazed by bad things happening to her because the worst thing was already happening. She was being forgotten. I got a feeling even if Angel explained that becoming a vampire means she would still end up dead and a demon takes over her body she wouldn't have cared.
Angel and Buffy were those shows for me when I was in middle school and high school. I was sooo obsessed with them, and obviously am still slightly obsessed. I used to be so excited for the school day to be over with so I could go onto forums and chat with other fans about the show. I learned early on that I have a personality that tends to easily get obsessed with things and have eventually learned how to keep it in check. I can see how that type of personality mixed with some mental instability could lead to taking the obsession too far. Anyways I love your reaction videos and look forward to them each week, it’s wonderful to live through you vicariously watching these shows for the first time.
This is one of the best eps of S1. So good. A great one-off, really well-done, and played off the noir/ femme fatale stuff SO WELL.
I think this episode was so anyone that only watched Angel and not Buffy can have a idea how evil Angelus is.
It was more so just a way to get Angelus to interact with Cordy and Wes without doing a full arc. For Angel to essentially pick at their insecurities and reveal his inner thoughts
Really interesting point about how fan culture intersects with stalking. I think that kind of unhinged obsession can definitely be seen in the verbal violence and vitriol fan culture sometimes produces e.g. death threats to writers or when an unwanted female love interest is brought on board.
It's not just fan culture, a lot of the press and TV coverage of famous and not-so-famous people crosses the line into stalking. They may claim it's what their readers want, but their opinion pieces can seem unhinged.
The freelances who stake out an individual for months or years are difficult to distinguish from stalkers, as are the editors who buy their work or send out their own reporters. That's why there is limited coverage of this issue in the media.
@@faithlesshound5621 Very true. The resurfacing of how the press 💯 stalked and hounded Britney and some of her contemporaries really affirms this
Y'know, it always made a certain amount of sense to me that Ms. Cordelia "Tact Is Just Not Saying True Stuff" Chase MAYBE wouldn't find ACTING of all thing all that easy a vocation to fall into actually lol. If only it had been a decade or so later, maybe she coulda found a following as an influencer instead XD
That's a good point. I can see Cordy being an influencer, maybe she has an Instagram account for fashion.
I do always enjoy when Angel's alternative character interpretation drops in for a visit.
An alternative to soul suppression is like, the magic of the spell/curse keeps his soul unnaturally tied to the vampire/ dead body; since reaching pure happiness breaks the spell/ releases the soul, the chemicals kind of loosened the spell's grip on the soul, like it floated away a bit but the ties were still there and got stronger as the drugs left his system.
But i think the drugs weakening/knocking out Angel and the demon taking over while he was weak is just as good :)
21:15 I agree with you there, Angelus is such an awesome villain, it's such a shame we don't get more of him.
I didn't feel like Rebecca really liked Angel himself, though. She was attracted to him being a vampire and what she thought he could bring her - immortality. Unlike Buffy, i.e. someone who really loved him, who didn't even notice he had his vamp face on until he pointed it out.
Angel definitely does have form with experiencing love at first sight, but it didn't quite come off as that for me. The chemistry wasn't there for me.
she loved the idear of being young forever. all she knew of angel is that he could give it to her.
I agree mostly she was just using him for her own selfish reasons although I do think she was attracted to him before he turned evil and you know tried to murder her LOL
She liked him even before she knew he was a vampire, though.
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I think they do had chemistry and were both attracted to each other. Which can be the first step to love, but it doesn't has to be. And Angel at this point is not sure if having a sexual relationship with someone he is attracted to and could potentially fall in love with would trigger him or not. As Wes pointed out: true happiness needs more. But it is quite risky to test that theory.
Stalkers aren't looking at the person. They are looking at their own feelings of happiness when watching them and want to continue that high
One of my favorite episodes is amazing , I love David playing Angel but when he plays Angelus he's unbelievably cool.for me this idea was perfect I loved it,it is only a suggestion he did not lose his soul. for me it's great idea.
The soul suppresses the demon. The drug suppressed the soul. Demon party time!
I hadn't really thought of this story as a multi-parter, but now that you describe it I could definitely see how that might have worked. It is intriguing to think of movie start acting like groupie. Being so used to everyone knowing you only by a persona and than being drawn to someone more reclusive for the same reason. It actually kind of work you remembering the character by her 'character name' before recalling her real name. Like she's so used to this role she might not even know her self that well anymore.
The thing about narcissism is that's not really love of ones-self but love of persona. Which as actually why many famous people that we think of as having a high opinion of themselves are actually very prone to self-harming tendencies. Narcissistic people actually tend to have a very low self-image. Which could mean the mindset of a star actress obsessed with her image and a desperate fan obsessed with meeting the one behind the image might actually have a lot in common and not in a good way. What's ironic in this case is that Angel literally has NO reflection. He suggestions something freeing to Rachel because he representations a separation from aging a the fading of image that young actresses are often taught to fear.
Hope that doesn't sound to rambled. What you said just really got my mind rushing. Great work as usual Alley.
"Women" / He totally mirrored Spike in "School Hard" here, didn't he (after Joyce hit him with an axe)? Like sire like progeny.
Stalkers are terrifying, especially with how difficult it is to legally get anything actually effective done about them. "Oh, they just like you". Um, nope, they ruin lives.
Angel in a suit with his hair like that, I can only see him as Booth
I love when I’m watching Bones and see little glimpses of Angel in Booth.
@@WhatsLeft71 Right, Like agent Booth your Angels showing.
As pointed out in the comments, there are a lot of different head canons why he turned to angelus without losing his soul completly.
My take is that angel (with a soul) never was ever happy because once this happens he loses his soul. So taking drugs and becoming happy in terms of hormones had a placebo effect on him. He thought he was going to lose his soul so he acted like angelus. Since angel as a series is a methaphor for an recovering alcoholic, he lost his control over his actions and acted like the beast he fears to become (and still has inside him). The temptation is always there and he could actively choose to hurt people. I mean humans do have souls and can still be murderers and stuff. It's like the ultimate excuse to let loose and do what your id tells you to do
Now was that a shot of Angel walking his character through the crowd of photographers or just David Boreanaz after the show? Lol
Totally loving your reactions to buffy and Angel you actually make me cry laughing with your words 😅 & thanks for interlocking both series.... now I just can't wait for you to get to series 6 of buffy 😮😅
this ep always felt more cinematic to me than a lot of other eps.
So, now I watched the whole video and I love it. Your stalking and fan "review/rant" was perfect! This kind of information and your thoughts, as a psych student no less, are one of the reasons you are one of my top 3 reactors. And the editing of cause :D
On the topic of stalkers and Angel. If you refer back to season 2 of Buffy and read through the psychology of stalkers. And look at Angelus and his behaviour. He pretty much checks all the boxes. And when you follow Angel through Buffy and into his own show. Angel frequently displays those tendencies. Just not to the extent that Angelus brings. There are elements that bleed over and blend between them. They are two sides of the same coin.
It's interesting going back and rewatching Buffy and Angel through this lens. It's a little unnerving.
Also back in (I want to say) 2014/15 there was a show call Stalker. Not a reaction request. Just a recommend because you seem to find the subject interesting.
The Netflix series You is good too (and is all about that topic).
Girl you’ed’ve LOVED the 80’s for the fashion alone, LOL
I once met the actress who plays Rebecca; her name is Tamara Gorski. It was back in 2005 in Chicago at an autograph convention. Nice lady.
stop stalking her For Christ's Sake!
So there is precedent for Angel being evil when heis high: when he bits Buffy and other women in Amends and Somnambulist. I really appreciate this episode more for the fact they built to this climax for over a year.
When you said the agent reminded you of a director, I did notice a slight resemblance to Steven Spielberg.
We did have a lot of versions of stalkers in not only buffy verse but also in this first season of Angel with the Russle (e1) and then the doctor in "I Fall to Pieces" ... Now that I think about it there's too many to name ...
Everyone had those shorts in the late 80s/early 90s. lol
That actress also played Morrigan on Hercules: The Legendary Journeys, who could turn into a raven.
The play Cordy was acting in was "The Doll's House", a real play, by the way.
When would Angel have explained things to Rebecca? When he realized what she wanted from him, he was already under the effects of the drug and losing his coherence and getting angry with her.
The way Supernatural went downhill, I kept hoping it would be cancelled so that the actors could be on better shows.
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can you imagine Buffy watching TV and seeing Angel at a red carpet premiere
Re: stalking. It may be "interesting," but it doesn't just happen to celebrities or famous people. And it absolutely sucks to be on the receiving end of it.
More long rants, that was amazing! Love to see a video of yours that goes past 30 before I even click.
S1 of Angel also known as "let's experiment and pair Angel with random one-off women that he has no real chemistry with or narrative proof of liking, but we'll make sure the audience knows they're love interests because another character will say he likes them or we'll make her spine glow".
Spoilers
I don't like Kate that much for reasons, but I wish the writers just stuck with her as a possible love interest.
@@jamie7398 You need to spoiler tag this stat, please.
Especially considering how much Alley likes Kate.
@@jaycievictory8461 Fixed it.
@@jamie7398 Thanks 😊
There is no gain without loss. If you enjoy a well writen character, you'll despise if that well write character changes into something you don't enjoy. It is an equivalent exchange. You can't just enjoy all without also gaining the posibility of losing it all. BUT, you can learn how to move over faster, to let go, and to enjoy other things.
Anything enjoyable has already access to our emotions, and it can be for good or bad. Trying to avoid the bad is what leads to depresion because we also lose the good. Learning to deal with the bad is the only way to keep the good. Good luck!
You know... turning someone into a vampire and IMMEDIATELY giving them a soul before they eat anyone should be legit.
Trouble is I don't know how hard that spell is. Willow could cast it as a novice... but it's WILLOW. So that means nothing.
I think they tailor-made the curse for Angel and it wouldn't work on just anyone. Besides, I don't think anyone should have their desire for immortality as an undead bloodsucker indulged.
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@@TheNoybusiness I certainly think 'was willing to drug Angel' is a much better indication she shouldn't be immortal than anything about the curse being super-specific.
All those photographers are gonna be confused as fuck when they don't see angel in their pictures the next morning 😂
Remember that "fan" is short for fanatic. For some people, the longer word, with all its connotation, is more appropriate. On the other hand, there are celebrities that take advantage of the attention and the fanatics that bestow it. Hopefully, by a certain age, you learn to treat people as people, no more and no less.
I'm with you Alley. This was a great episode and way better than the last episode.
So, my thoughts on the soul matter amount to: The demon is inside Angel at all times. His soul is what gives him the ability to keep the demon contained and make choices other than what the demon wants. The drug didn't give him true happiness and remove his soul; it just made him so blissed out that he couldn't contain the demonic nature (or care about the consequences of giving the demon what it wants.) If he had truly lost his soul, he would need to be cursed again, but this is just a taste of what happens if he's not actively engaged in suppressing that demon who shares his mind and body.
Regarding the fandom culture discussions and extremely high standards: I think in some ways it stems from the way the internet has socialized a lot of us. On pretty much any social platform and most entertainment platforms we're curating these feeds that are so specifically tailored to our own standards, with little if any upsetting content. And that's a functional tool in the social media space, but it can get taken to extremes. People who are online a lot get very used to that way of interacting with the world. When you see content you don't like, you unfollow or block. You get your incoming stimuli so perfectly balanced to your standards that even the slightest deviation can become disproportionately upsetting. It's not unlike a child state. An adult drops a cookie on the floor and they're like "aw man, I'm really disappointed, I wanted to eat that cookie, oh well, gotta move on." A child drops a cookie on the floor and it is quite literally the worst thing that has happened in their entire life. They don't have worse experiences to compare against in their memory. They don't have the perspective, life experience, logic, or frontal cortex development to think through the fact that this is survivable and they'll probably be able to get another cookie at a later time. There is just the overwhelming stimulus of the worst event they've ever experienced. The extremely online people with carefully curated content feeds end up in a similar situation. Maybe the disappointment from someone they idolize isn't literally the worst event in all of their memory, but they process it as the worst thing in recent memory, maybe the worst thing in years. If they have other underlying emotional, behavioral, or mental health issues, those can compound the problems. They could become obsessed with trying to solve the problem of the disappointment, or fixated on revenge for what they feel they've lost. Even the extremely online people can overcome these issues with mindfulness and awareness that our near-perfect feeds are not the way the whole world actually works and our high standards for a content feed cannot realistically be our standards for all human interaction.
Yeah, I've thought for a while now that there are negative aspects to the fact that on social media you can block out any interaction you don't want to have, which you couldn't in the age where you had to deal with everyone face-to-face.
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Stalkers appear quite a bit in the buffyverse if you think about it. Angel episode 4. Buffy episode 11 with the invisible girl. Angel himself removed from humanity for so long kinda stalked buffy at first if you think about it.
Alfred Adler talked about how the most important thing to humanity was human connection. So in a way it kinda makes sense, like you said. Stalkers might not have the ability to form connection but it doesn't stop them from craving those connection regardless.
On celebrity stalkers: I actually think we are moving in a positive way in this regard. The average person can on TH-cam or wherever share their life and build a fan base. More and more people are learning about the life of celebrities. In this way it equalizes and humanizes all of us.
Of course many also put people like their significant others on pedestal. Which immediately creates a power dynamic and is toxic for both parties.
Definately interesting to think about, Alley. Now I'm curious to find out if there are studies on these types of stalkers in terms there being a correlation between the types and different personalities disorders.
Dave Letterman's stalker was the first time i had heard of the phenomenon in my teens. Crazy stuff.
Yaaaay, the "Angel On Molly" episode!
You're right it doesn't make sense. You just have to sit back and enjoy it.
55 years ago, when I began elementary school (pre-K and kindergarten were not common then) my first grade teacher noticed that I was squinting very hard to see what she was writing on the board. When I then got my first glasses, I was literally delighted by what I was able to see, in focus, with no squinting, and literally for the first time.
I carry two pairs of back-up specs (older prescriptions, but will allow me to at least avoid accidents) in my daily driver, because if my glasses break, I am technically sort of blind (myopia) - 4 1/2 diopters in one eye, 5.25 in the other, both with astigmatism. I'm not complaining, I'm waiting another couple of years and will get my lenses (actual ones, not glasses ones) replaced, which should fix it all.
Slightly different from celebrity stalking but some one I knew at University got stalked. I don't know much about it but he knew where she lived and it was terrifying for her.
Your glasses are like the goldfish that died when you were 6 but you didn't know it because your parents replaced it with a goldfish that looked exactly the same...
😂
Despite the plotholes the size of Manhattan, I actually like this episode. There are a lot of reasons set up in Buffy that it shouldn't work this way- most drugs don't work on vampires unless they're in the blood of the person they're feeding from (Spike, S2), there was no "loss/gain of soul" animation like they used in Buffy S3, there's no reason why drugs should be "bliss" for a man with the kind of guilt Angel has and a bad trip makes a lot more sense, they set up solidly in Buffy that it's emotional happiness and not physical happiness that triggers the spell catch, etc.
Even with all that though, I do think it was a useful episode for showing new Angel viewers exactly what the stakes are if Angelus gets loose on LA, and I liked the inclusion of the actress begging to be changed and how even thinking you want it, you'll change your mind when you really know what it means. I just wish they'd found a more canon-compliant way to do that kind of plotline, rather than like... 'drugs did it'. That's a pretty huge weakness he didn't have before. Also, shouldn't he have been able to smell it or taste it??? Most of the drugs I can think of that would cause "bliss" are uh... not subtle.
Ahhh more Angel!!
RE: how it was then vs now... I think a lot of the (perceived?) extremeness today comes from the access to information and the celebrity (through soc media and other). In the nineties, unless you were committed to putting the “work” into being an extreme stalker, all the information you received was from magazines and other PR moves the celebrity might make: the only 'real them' you knew about was the face they presented to the world or the occasional tabloid. You also didn’t necessarily have easy access to other people who were as obsessed as you were.
Today celebrities, like everyone else, are putting *themselves* out there, letting everyone have access into their homes, thoughts and lives. The difference of course, is that the likelihood of attracting a stalker-like personality exponentially increases when you have millions of followers. Like so many things nowadays, it’s easier to be a borderline stalker because all the information is literally at your fingertips.
Anyway, that’s just how I see it… 😁
He reminds me of Stephen Spielberg.
Haha ok you said it later lol. Why am I randomly commenting.
love this episode
I think there's a Union Rule that every tv show about vampires has to have at least one episode where an actress wants to be turned so they can keep their youth and continue acting forever. This show, _Moonlight,_ _Forever Knight,_ etc. Speaking of _Forever Knight,_ the female lead of that show had to basically retire from acting due to a stalker.
no saying why but can't wait for the next episode of Angel
11:45 No not really. Angel has said before that he is always tempted to let Angelus take control, the drug merely made him give in to that.
It's autumn. Too cold for shorts 😂 or maybe it's just england
You went a bit tangential at the end there, but it was quite interesting. I think the Internet has made it a lot easier for to people to indulge in their fandoms - before that it was just postal fanzines or possibly BBSes for the more tech-savvy. The first Internet-based fan thing I can remember was based around the X-Files in the late 90s, which was when web browsers started supporting more graphical elements and people could put some effort into making their web pages look good.
Angel didn't really do two-parters much at this stage. There is continuity, but most stories are complete in themselves, you don't have to have seen the others (except to explain what happened to Doyle and why Cordy has the visions now)
I want to know how Angel shows up in a film picture. I can see a case for digital cameras but film is similar to a mirror. And a SLR camera uses mirrors.
Idk. Technically modern mirrors really should be a problem though. Back in history, mirrors were polished silver and silver was meant to represent purity. When someone was looking at their reflection the mirror was supposed to be reflecting their soul. Since Vampires are soulless monsters they would not have a reflection in silver. But since modern mirrors no longer use silver, vampires should cast a reflection.
@@dusk78 True. But Angel has a soul! Why no reflection?
All theatre depends on a willing suspension of disbelief. Vampires require just a little more. The mumbo jumbo about souls makes as little sense in relation to vampires as it does in theology.
@@GregInHouston2 I suppose it's just an adherence to Whedon's lore. Every vampire movie, novel or series has it's own version of the lore. I loved when they introduced Dracula into BtVS with all the traditional vampire powers and Spike just scoffs at it as "fancy gypsy mojo".
New glasses! Who are you? Can't recognize 😂
Predator Stalker is kinda Rebecca to a T (re: how she treated Angel) 🧐😬
If you liked this storyline and the issues raised, you should definitely watch Dollhouse. Among many other reasons
Dollhouse was OK, but I liked Joss' other shows better especially "Firefly"
@@arielcarmona6660 I agree, I prefer Buffy and Firefly to Dollhouse, but I was specifically talking about her reaction to this episode and the themes it brings up. I don't want to say too much in the comments in case she does watch the show, but yeah, this was a specific recommendation based on how much she liked this episode
I have seen people say that the mythology behind Angel losing his soul gets messed up here. But I highly disagree. I don't think Angel actually loses his soul. I think the Doximal simulates bliss so well that he doesn't feel any guilt, which is what actually makes him lose his soul [although the characters don't know that]). The Doximal masks the fact that he still has a soul. That's why the Angelus of this episode doesn't quite act like the Angelus we know from previous episodes. There is also nothing saying drugs won't effect vampires. We already know vampires don't like the taste of steroids. So there is nothing saying drugs wouldn't effect them. And drugs wear off. We don't know how they can work without blood-flow, but the same can be said for sex. How was Angel able to "perform" without blood-flow to the lower region? That's nota head-canon question I care to get into.
Even Angel is a little disappointed the newspaper article isn't about his save of Rebbecca.
Angel's a Frank Langella fan. 😀 I love Bela Legosi best, but cannot deny Frank Langella was great.
At least mythical drugs work
We've seen before on Buffy that drugs can have an effect on vampires. They've used sedatives on them before.
Angel did get hit by a car. The people standing there don't know his a vampire and will be fine. If that happened today it would be all over the internet.
@@piggyintheshadows also Spike has got high from feeding off hippies.
Those glasses are cute, And yes
they look different.
Lol supernatural fandom is insane indeed, same for tvd. I love these fantasy types of shows and can really get into it and excited about it but don't get involved in the fandoms cause most of the time these are filled with people who can't seperate reality from fiction anymore. Like people hating an actor and scold them irl because of the character they played, so weird.
I think part of the problem is that English doesn't have more words for love. Just the word "love". I heard someone saying that there were six words in ancient Greek. We have to add a load of adjectives and explanation to specify what kind of feeling anyone has. I do feel like it's a problem for adolescent boys because girls will say they "love" you when what they mean is that they're fond of a friend, or just someone they've grown up with because they're familiar, or because they like something they just said, or because they have the same music taste or something. Actually this is a problem regardless of gender. Like at that age it's really hard for anyone not to start thinking in relationship terms if anyone remotely attractive shows them any attention. But anyway, we need more terms. Especially when people jump to the conclusion that if someone says "I love you", the other person is obligated to reciprocate, because dumb romance dramas give that impression.
to understand this episode you need to understand what a soul is to Whedon and in the Buffyverse. the soul is the human fundamental freedom, between stimulus and response, humanity is free to choose. in the Buffyverse losing the soul is the loss of this freedom. a vampire cannot choose to be anything other than what the demonic impulses want them to be. with his soul present angel can choose (thought strong character and great effort) to be decent and act against the demon, but suppress his ability to choose with narcotics and he can't choose anymore, and angelus is released. essentially wesley is wrong - this had nothing to do with the curse.
31:00 Yeah what did you expect? Hollywood had never seen a concept it didn't want to milk for a few dollars more. Then again sometimes prequels are good, Young Sheldon for an example was way better than Big Bang Theory. If the Supernatural prequel is about them hunting ghosts and monsters again and ditches the melodramatic angels and demons stuff it might be good. I didn't like supernatural after the second season. I think I stopped watching after the third. I think it's because I come from an atheist majority country and I prefer my urban fantasy not being tied to a specific religion. Supernatural season 3 onward feels so... American.
Stalker:
Imagine you watch a movie.
You like/dislike the actress - you decide to watch all her stuff...
While you watch, you think about her... you seem to see the person behind the "mask".
Then there is some article, talking about her newest break-up - you can see that they don't know her, they just use her for her fame.
You start making deeper emotional connections to "HER" - a picture of her that you (completely) built in your mind...
a picture, necessarily more accurate than all "HER" presence in the media.
You know her BETTER. Many people reach THIS point...
THEN the real trouble starts.
It is easy to obsess, our media is partially built for that - it needs strong feelings to go forward into the "real trouble".
Suffering f.e. produces strong feelings. And suffering is mostly initiated by some form of aggressor.
oO.
The irony being many of the Buffy girls are now in this exact same position? Brace yourself, the best eps of the season are coming!
Which Doctor?
Outfit 10/10!
No!!!!!! I liked the old glasses. They were angeled down a bit lower on the sides, RIP
The most unrealistic part of this episode was Rebecca not being a blonde
The glasses are slightly different, but look exactly as pretty on you as the last ones
I do a 14 hour training on Stalking. If you want more info (as a psychology student) let me know. I'll get you more info.
You have really long hair. It looks great! Do you have a goal length?
I like the previous episode better personally.
Did you get a new ring? the one on your pointer finger on your left hand? [edit] well, there's my dyslexia, not pointer finger, ring finger.
Quite the rant but I find psychology interesting too, what makes Peter Venkman tick? Do you find it weird that on social media people that connect are all called Followers? Very stalky. Most people I communicate with on Twitter specify No DMs. I've had a few people as soon as you Follow them they start DMing as if you're their new best friend. I don't have the time.
There was a Animaniacs short, Please Please Please Get a Life, that criticized this obsessive behavior. I don't think doing a weekly series qualifies, and god knows I get obsessive myself (at the moment XCOM modded). But it does happen, Sarah Michelle Geller was subject to it, so it's worth addressing.
With Angelus I'm wondering if it was all an act as a way to scare Rebecca. He seemed more bouncing off the walls than savage, like he was playing it up or doing a parody.
I think the bouncing off the walls thing was because he was drugged drugs can do that to someone.
@@jamie7398 This was Angelus while high...more prone to being silly than vicious. Spike alluded to feeding on a flower girl and being all mellow and calm, and Wesker from the Resident Evil games, when pumped up with some vaccine to counteract the virus it made him, basically, drunk as in teen boy on testosterone drunk. Yeah, I buy it.
I agree with you about fanstan culture. Stalking and stanning the actors is weird. They're just people. What a weird job that people fixate on you as a result of you working? wtf Oh and stanning characters to be holy when you have no idea where the writers are going to take them, then being mad at the writers when the character turns into a slasher or something lol the stantasy... it's yikes but it's real and you're the grad student (and thanks for stopping to talk about psych stuff/this)... how do we get this conversation going when pretty much fan culture is purely stan culture now
LINE ?!
Unfortunately he was already drugged by the time he would have explained
Seeing theories about how getting drugged temporarily brought Angelus. Here's one: The curse was built so that his conscience would torment him. That's why "a moment if pure happiness" breaks the curse: because that's a point where he doesn't feel guilt. So it makes sense: being under drugs' influence, he's not in a state of mind to feel guilt either, and that affects the curse.
I also wanna say, I think people speak too often about Angel and Angelus being 2 different beings. They really are not. The presence or not of a soul only gives the vampire his conscience, but that's about it! Not as huge a difference as people might thing! Like, remember Angel's reaction when Buffy said to Willow that a vampire's personality has nothing to do with who they were as human? The reality is that's the opposite; they are very similar. Just wanted to throw that out there, because it bugs me a little that people makes Angel and Angelus two different persons when they aren't...
That's not accurate at all. When Darla drained Liam's blood, she killed him and Liam went to the afterlife. Feeding him her blood summoned a demon to possess his corpse. When the curse was placed on Angelus, Liam was pulled out of the afterlife and shoved back into his body. Angelus was trapped in a corner of Liam's mind, able to perceive everything that Angel perceives but unable to act. A reverse of the usual demonic possession.
Angelus bears a resemblance to Angel because he has Liam's memories and his personality 'software' is running on Liam's brain's 'hardware'. But it's only a resemblance. They are 100% separate entities.
Nice shorts
Wesley's explanation of "oh it's just chemicals, it's artificial, not real" never made sense to me. Isn't any "real" feeling just chemicals in the brain? Like, it would feel the same, why does the source of the feeling matter?
But I like Alley's theory and some comments I've seen :D
There's a difference between feeling like you're at peace and actually being at peace. A drug isn't a good-enough reason to be perfectly happy, especially since it's inherently temporary. Also, his brain chemicals have been manipulated; the happiness doesn't come from within.
The 'lore' around the curse makes absolutely no sense here. Just accept that this is how they wanted it to work for this episode and then never think about it again (the writers clearly don't). Otherwise, you'll drive yourself nuts thinking about the continuity.