The Disappearance of the SS Chicora (1895)

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
  • On January 21, 1895, Graham & Morton Transportation Company's "Chicora" departed from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, bound for St. Joseph-Benton Harbor, Michigan. The weather had been uncharacteristically mild, and it was raining at the time of her departure. However, not long after departing, a telegram for Chicora's captain from the ship's owner warned him to stay put, as a massive winter storm was brewing. The messenger boy narrowly missed them, and the Chicora and its crew were never seen again. 128 years later, the location of Chicora's wreck has never been found.
    Materials Used:
    Morton House Museum: www.mortonhouse...
    Saugatuck-Douglas History Center: www.sdhistoric...
    Grand Rapids Public Museum: www.grpm.org/
    Historical Collections of the Great Lakes, Bowling Green State University: www.bgsu.edu/l...
    Great Lakes Maritime Collection, Alpena County Library: greatlakeships...
    3D Model and animation by ‪@caljucotcas‬
    Works Cited:
    “The Lake Boats. Two New Boats for the Graham and Morton Line-Plans and Preparations.” The Herald-Palladium, 20 February 1892, pp. 3.
    "Graham and Morton's Magnificent New Excursion Steamer Successfully Christened at Detroit." St. Joseph Saturday Herald, 2 July 1892, pp. 1.
    “Work of the Ship Yards.” The Marine Review, vol. 6, no. 7, 18 August 1892, pp.12.
    "Arrival of the Chicora." St. Joseph Saturday Herald, 20 August 1892, pp. 1.
    “Trial of Steamer Chicora.” The Marine Review, vol. 6, no. 19, 10 November 1892, pp.8.
    “Graham and Morton Line.” The Marine Review, vol. 7, no. 1, 6 July 1893, pp.1.
    "The Boats." The Semi-Weekly Palladium, 4 December 1894, pp. 3.
    "The Lake A Foaming Mass." Detroit Free Press, 21 January 1895, pp. 3.
    Form Map C-1895. U.S. Department Of Agriculture Weather Map. Mark W. Harrington, Chief of Weather Bureau. Published by authority of the Secretary of Agriculture, 21 January 1895.
    "Storm Ends the Search." The Semi-Weekly Palladium, 29 January 1895. pp. 2.
    "Lost In The Lake. The Steamer Chicora Foundered Off South Haven, Michigan. All On Board Perished. The Weekly-Palladium: Memorial Edition, 12 February 1895, pp. 1,4.
    "A Message From the Chicora." St. Joseph Saturday Herald, 20 April 1895. pp. 5.
    United States. Steamboat Inspection Service. Annual Report of the Supervising Inspector-General to the Secretary of the Treasury for the Fiscal Year Ended June 30, 1895.
    Casualties, District of Grand Haven, Michigan 1895. United States. Steamboat Inspection Service. Annual Report of the Supervising Inspector-General to the Secretary of the Treasury for the Fiscal Year Ended June 30, 1896.
    "Today Marks the Tenth Anniversary of the Wreck of the Steamer Chicora." The Herald-Palladium, 21 January 1905, pp. 9.
    "Fifty Years of Steamboating End for J.S. Morton; But One Passenger Actually Lost in all that time." The Herald-Palladium, 1 January 1925, pp. 21.
    "Capt. Russell Missed Chicora's Last Trip. Lives To Tell Of It." The Herald-Palladium, 21 January 1939, pp. 3.
    "58-Year-Old Note Found In Drifting Bottle Lifts Veil From Sinking Of Chicora Off South Haven In Sudden Winter Gale." The Herald-Press, 30 July 1953, pp. 16.
    "Is This Chicora's Resting Place?" The Herald-Palladium, 30 September 2001, pp. 13.
    "Chicora Mystery Remains." The South Bend Tribune, 24 October 2002. pp. 17.
    Jones, Meg Journal Sentinel. “Lake Michigan Shipwreck Discovered Last Month Could Be the Long-lost Chicora.” Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 20 July 2018, eu.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2018/07/20/steamship-chicora-lost-1895-could-found-again/792644002.
    Music/Stock Footage Used:
    Dark Fog by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommon...
    Source: incompetech.com...
    Artist: incompetech.com/
    Computations in a Snowstorm by Scott Buckley - www.scottbuckley.com.au
    Comfortable Mystery 3 - Film Noire by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommon...
    Source: incompetech.com...
    Artist: incompetech.com/
    Stock Media provided by alexanderguelph / Pond5
    Stock Media provided by jamejones / Pond5
    Stock Media provided by LarinaMarina / Pond5
    Support Railroad Street on Patreon: / railroadstreet
    Tip Jar: ko-fi.com/rail...
    #SSChicora #GreatLakesShipWreck

ความคิดเห็น • 94

  • @JohnDavies-cn3ro
    @JohnDavies-cn3ro ปีที่แล้ว +59

    A sad story, and sad fate for what was clearly a beautiful ship, and one with decent owners and crew. I'm fascinated by the Great Lakes stories on youtube, so 'foreign' to anything we have in England, and watch these with avid interest. It is hard for us to visualise the scale of the Lakes - even though I've flown over them - and the ships are unlike anything of ours too. Different world indeed.

    • @talpark8796
      @talpark8796 ปีที่แล้ว

      it's atragedy, but it really is an ugly ship

    • @gunnarthefeisty
      @gunnarthefeisty ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@talpark8796 wrong.

    • @LostShipMate
      @LostShipMate ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@talpark8796 Ugly seems a bit harsh, its a pretty average looking steamer from the late 1800's.

    • @talpark8796
      @talpark8796 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@LostShipMate haha...it's subjective (you kinda made my pt.).
      Are mine-track steam locomotives ugly, compared to rail-steam locomotives?
      Yep.
      tc

    • @norml.hugh-mann
      @norml.hugh-mann ปีที่แล้ว

      People can find beauty in whatever th3y want or not...
      Seems like so many people just want to argue in comment sections anonymously or about how they feel or opinions they hold like anyone is supposed to give 2 Fs
      The world needs a Dexter for those that comment with bad Intentions

  • @ianisaacs2340
    @ianisaacs2340 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Normally I can hardly identify what’s on a sonar screen, but I swear that is the clearest sonar scan I’ve ever seen and it looks like it’s Chicora.

  • @michiganmaritimemuseum46
    @michiganmaritimemuseum46 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    An iconic ship with a legendary story. Thanks for putting this together!

  • @micoasters
    @micoasters ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I’m so happy u coverd this, I’m a Michigander and this is one of my fav wrecks

  • @mbvoelker8448
    @mbvoelker8448 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    So sad that, instead of pressuring the captain to sail in dubious conditions as has happened so many times, the owner tried to keep his ship safe in port but was too late.

    • @miapdx503
      @miapdx503 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yes, so many Great Lakes tragedies happened on the last run of the season, when the weather became nasty. If they had only treasured human life over finances...😞

  • @johnrapp1116
    @johnrapp1116 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    This is fascinating! I’ve lived in SJ/BH for twenty five years … and never have heard this story. Going to read up more about it now. Thanks to you for kicking up an interesting historic rabbit hole for me to dive into. Good way of setting up this story!

  • @Electriceye1984bySam
    @Electriceye1984bySam ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Thank you for another fine documentary on an event I knew not of.
    Very well done my friend.

  • @unorthodoxridez
    @unorthodoxridez ปีที่แล้ว +23

    This channel is underrated, great production! Proud northeast Ohioan myself.

    • @Coffeeology
      @Coffeeology ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I just found them. INSTANT SUB

    • @GhostofSicklesleg
      @GhostofSicklesleg 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Coffeeology me as well, I love content on the Great Lakes. And I grew up in Berlin Heights 50 miles west of Cleveland

  • @sqd37l
    @sqd37l ปีที่แล้ว +8

    heartbreaking story. well made video

  • @nickstemberger1289
    @nickstemberger1289 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Great editing and I dig the simulations of what the ship would've looked like. Speaking of the Goodrich line, will you be doing a video on the Alpena? It was a side wheel steamer lost on southern Lake Michigan around 1880 with all hands.

  • @bicivelo
    @bicivelo ปีที่แล้ว +2

    We try to visit the Saint Joseph MI area each summer. It’s so beautiful there and reminds me a lot of living back on the East Coast in NE. I will see if there is any reference to this boat when we visit there next time. Fantastic video, but a very tragic story. 😢 liked and subscribed!

  • @hrunchtayt1587
    @hrunchtayt1587 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    No clue if you’d be interested but you should talk about the U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Tampa of 1912. No one remembers her but when she was sunk during WW1 it was one of the worst combat casualties inflicted on the USN/USCG during the war with all hands being lost.

    • @bennychapman3354
      @bennychapman3354 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      The history guy does a wonderful job on the Tampa.

  • @sreed8570
    @sreed8570 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Must have been incredible to our grandparents as children riding ships in those days. Try to imagine at home you have to run to a well outside for water and to use the toilette in an outhouse with nothing but oil lamps and candles. Then you board a ship with electricity, running hot and cold water with indoor plumbing. Must have been magical.

    • @norml.hugh-mann
      @norml.hugh-mann ปีที่แล้ว

      They almost all used bedpans at Night or in weather.

  • @TheMomseloc
    @TheMomseloc ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The wreck was found summer 2022. My first apartment (I was 19 and "knew everything" in 1981) was in Milwaukee. :)

    • @jamesswapinski9190
      @jamesswapinski9190 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Has there been any follow up, any survey of the hull?She was pretty much the only one of the proper size and layout who could have been in the area..But that isn't confirmation,or identification

    • @gunnarthefeisty
      @gunnarthefeisty 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Potentially found in 2018. Still has not been proved.

  • @miapdx503
    @miapdx503 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I wish they'd taught maritime history in school. I love history and would have found it fascinating. Also, it's an important element of history. I feel it's largely ignored, and that's a shame. These videos are very important, thank God we can still learn. 🌹⚓

  • @cookiemurderer4866
    @cookiemurderer4866 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    There's something so existentially horrifying of being on a sinking ship in a cold storm. Knowing that you and everyone with you are going die and no one will know what happened to you. And all you can do is try to record what happened and pray someone finds the message. What a horrible tragedy, may all onboard rest in piece.
    Apparently the wreck found won't be surveyed any time soon sadly. The company that found her folded and the location of the site is under wraps. At least the discovery gives some closure to the descendants of those lost. The general location is known so maybe she'll be uncovered again someday.

    • @gunnarthefeisty
      @gunnarthefeisty ปีที่แล้ว

      Taras said that he soon plans to go out and get some footage of it. Not sure what you mean, "Under wraps".

    • @cookiemurderer4866
      @cookiemurderer4866 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@gunnarthefeisty I mean that the wrecks location is legally protected and it would be easier to go out and find the remains yourself then go through endless bureaucracy only to be inevitably turned down.

  • @Oakleaf700
    @Oakleaf700 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    What a complete tragedy.
    Death by Shipwreck seems so brutal, for Passengers and crew and families.
    There is an old Gravestone in a Church {Possibly St Mary Redcliffe} in Bristol , UK {Port City} where someone's son back in 1800's was ''Lost at Sea''.
    Rest in Peace, all those lost at Sea.

  • @TheMattTrakker
    @TheMattTrakker ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Isn't it Minn that has, "the Twin Cities", not Mich? I've only ever heard of Minneapolis and St. Paul referred to as that.

  • @shereesmazik5030
    @shereesmazik5030 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    So many secrets on the bottom of the Great Lakes .

  • @dudlydjarbum2045
    @dudlydjarbum2045 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Great video. I appreciate your work.

  • @felixcat9318
    @felixcat9318 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    What a horrific ending for those on board, unable to save themselves or to be saved, and knowing that they're about to die!
    All because a telegram wasn't able to be delivered to the dockside before the ship had departed a few minutes earlier.
    To have lost her husband and only child, her son, was a particularly cruel blow to the Captain's widow.
    Interesting that the only passenger aboard was one that sailed on her maiden voyage, and as the narrator said, also was on her final voyage...

    • @atomicwedgie8176
      @atomicwedgie8176 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Should have been mandatory, before leaving port, for the captain to wire ahead for a weather report. Sadly, they considered that ship an icebreaker... smh

  • @sgtmattkind
    @sgtmattkind ปีที่แล้ว +1

    just found your channel, great vids

  • @amberfanning4547
    @amberfanning4547 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I'd like to see a video on the other ship that you mentioned in your video that they found instead of the chocorua

  • @johnengland8619
    @johnengland8619 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks again for the content

  • @SoloSailing77
    @SoloSailing77 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I have been sailing since the 80's on Lake Michigan. The middle of the Lake has confused seas in good weather. I can't imagine what the waves do in heavy seas. Weather can change drastically in a couple hours. Sun turns to heavy storms that seem to stay over the lake longer than you'd think. RIP to all those lost in the Great Lakes.

  • @NickFortier
    @NickFortier ปีที่แล้ว +2

    New sub. Was curious, would you consider having these played in a museum?

    • @RailroadStreet
      @RailroadStreet  ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Thanks for subscribing! Yes. In fact, a couple of museums have already reached out wanting to use them to accompany exhibits.

  • @gunnarthefeisty
    @gunnarthefeisty ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Another update- I messaged Taras Lyssenko and he said that he hopes to, either this summer, or soon, go out and "get some good footage" of the wreck.

  • @gunnarthefeisty
    @gunnarthefeisty ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I have been awaiting this video. Could you share your literature (art, photos, etc) and modeling with me, as well as those interior photos? There's lot's I've never seen before, and I would really appreciate it. You didn't chronicle the repeated searches via ships as well as alleged sightings of the ship. The note you presented was actually two different notes put together- I believe. Was that a scan of the actual note? If so, I may be wrong.

    • @RailroadStreet
      @RailroadStreet  ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I'm well aware of the alleged sightings of Chicora. I didn't mention them as those areas were checked, but they never found her wreck. So obviously the two claims near South Haven were either faked to get their names in the newspaper or it was an optical illusion/mistaken for something else. Case in point with the one alleged sighting off Chicago where people claimed Chicora's hull was intact with its crew members sitting on deck waving. When this area was investigated, it turned out to be nothing but an iceberg with seagulls on it. There were supposedly two notes. The one I showed in the video is an actual copy of it that appeared in a Chicago Tribune article from 1895. It was verified through Mrs. McClure, who recognized Robert McClure's handwriting and his signature. Graham & Morton also compared it with his signatures on company ledgers and other documents. The other note read, "Chicora engines broke. Drifted into the trough of the sea. We have lost all hope. She has gone to pieces. Good-by. McClure, Engineer." It was found on April 22, 1895, in Glencoe, IL. Several issues with this note. I never found a follow-up newspaper article about the authenticity of it, nor an actual scan or picture of the note. Second, it is signed "McClure." He had been signing his last name as "McLure," which nobody knew except for his family and company officials. Thirdly, it was found all the way on the other side of the lake. Nearly all of the wreckage from Chicora washed up on the eastern and southeastern shores of Lake Michigan. Therefore, I believe this note was faked by someone else.

    • @gunnarthefeisty
      @gunnarthefeisty ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RailroadStreet I very much missed the note in the newspaper, good job finding that. I wouldn't be terribly shocked if the second note was faked as in newspapers he was listed as "Mcclure". However I do believe the second note was found along with some wooden wreckage from the Chicora, or so I read on a newspaper when I did my research last winter. Are the interior pictures of the Chicora itself or just of similar ships?

    • @RailroadStreet
      @RailroadStreet  ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Interesting, the two newspaper articles I could find about the second note all said this, "Two men employed by Melville E. Stone at his residence in Chicago picked up on the shore a fruit jar with a screw top. In the jar were four sheets of paper taken from a pocket notebook, rolled up closely and bound with a rubber band. On the inner leaf was written: Chicora engines broke. Drifted into the trough of the sea. We have lost all hope. She has gone to pieces. Good-by. McClure, Engineer." The interior collage photos at 3:04 are most likely not of Chicora. I at first thought they were; it appeared in a Marine Review article from July 6, 1893. The photo description in it says "Steamer Chicora, Main Saloon." However, I found the same image showing the main saloon in the Great Lakes Maritime Collection at the Alpena County Library, which said it was the City of Chicago's. This one appears at 1:30. I wonder if the photo of the grand staircase is Chicora's, I was never able to find a second copy of that.

    • @gunnarthefeisty
      @gunnarthefeisty ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RailroadStreet Can you link that interior shot please? Either would do. Thank you!

    • @gunnarthefeisty
      @gunnarthefeisty ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RailroadStreet Also, do you know, would the cabins be down in the hull? And the smoking room is the enclosed part of the deck at the bow, right?

  • @steveib724
    @steveib724 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks very interesting video ✌️

  • @brianedwards7142
    @brianedwards7142 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Maybe I have the wrong idea about my thalassophobia. Maybe it's a defense mechanism because only a maniac would willingly go over deep water.

  • @abovegroundgarage
    @abovegroundgarage ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What an absolute tragedy. My heart bleeds for the families of those whom were lost. No closure ever reached before their time. The insurance company not paying out makes sense too. Seems like it was a risk to be traveling at that time of year.

  • @hambdenbob7616
    @hambdenbob7616 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Like All Of Lake Michigans' Long Held Secrets,She Waits.. With The Advent Of Modern Undersea Exploratory Technology,One Day,She'll Be Found And Properly Memorialized....

    • @Oakleaf700
      @Oakleaf700 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I hope so.
      We live in a Port City {Bristol, UK} and certain shipwrecks do need to be marked and Remembered.
      There was a wreck ''Metta Catharina'' in 1786 that foundered off Plymouth, UK.. she was found in 1980's with a cargo of amazing crosshatched Russian leather {I was given some back in the 1980's by an Antiques restorer} ..it smelled 'Riverine', but the smell has gone now.
      Astonishingly, no men died in the wreck.

    • @stehouwerfarms8114
      @stehouwerfarms8114 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      She actually was located back in 2002 just off of Holland, Michigan. They've dove the wreck a couple times.

    • @gunnarthefeisty
      @gunnarthefeisty ปีที่แล้ว

      @@stehouwerfarms8114 This is patently untrue.

    • @gunnarthefeisty
      @gunnarthefeisty ปีที่แล้ว

      @@stehouwerfarms8114 This was actually the H.C. Akely.

  • @chicora1895
    @chicora1895 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Nice job.

  • @ss-2203
    @ss-2203 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent short Documentary.
    What about the Chicora story gaibed your interest to make the video?
    As a side note, I do know the founders of the Michigan Shipwreck Research Association and this has been a target of theirs for a few years. As for A&T recovery, they are known to hold their locations a secret. They are sadly more business oriented than they are in the historical aspect.

    • @RailroadStreet
      @RailroadStreet  ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Thank you! So, I've heard. I was told this bit of information when I was doing my research. I wasn't sure if it was allowed to share it publicly. I hear now that A&T has disbanded.
      As for your question on why I chose to make this video, someone had suggested the topic on my channel last year. I did a little preliminary research and was astounded at how close Chicora had missed the telegram from J.H. Graham telling her to stay put. And of course, considering my channel is named "Railroad Street," and Chicora made transshipment runs to the Big Four Railroad and Vandalia Line, I thought it would fit right in.

    • @ss-2203
      @ss-2203 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RailroadStreet It does make perfect sense. Thr 1890s were still the dawn of the Great Lakes Car ferries, hence the need for shipments by the vessels like the Chicora. I wouldn't doubt it would have been used that way on the Milwaukee route for some time.
      As for A&T recovery, that's the first I have heard of it disbanded. I did see some facebook posts of one of the founders on a group and from the tone he seemed asone of the most concieted individuals I had ever seen. Very Arrogant Man. That was about 2019 and the last I have heard of them.

    • @gunnarthefeisty
      @gunnarthefeisty ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RailroadStreet Lyssenko himself, the owner/founder of it, said just this winter that he plans to go out and get some footage with an ROV.

    • @gunnarthefeisty
      @gunnarthefeisty ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RailroadStreet also, it was I that requested it! Thank you!

  • @thebluntrappa
    @thebluntrappa ปีที่แล้ว +1

    13:11 that's like $6 million today

  • @mom369222
    @mom369222 ปีที่แล้ว

    Couldnt' they have dropped anchor? They would've stayed where they were, saving all those people who tragically lost their lives.

  • @TaterChip91
    @TaterChip91 ปีที่แล้ว

    If a ship has a "grand staircase" DO NOT get on it.

  • @jamesswapinski9190
    @jamesswapinski9190 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    God rest their souls

  • @johnoneill5661
    @johnoneill5661 ปีที่แล้ว

    I don’t understand how a ship this small could be licensed to carry up to 1500 people it’s not even a quarter of the size of the Titanic and she was able to carry 3547 crew and passengers. They would have to have been wedged in like sardines. 😮

    • @menofcatholicism
      @menofcatholicism ปีที่แล้ว +4

      The route was short so she was like a ferry-boat. The ship wasn’t spacious but I’m sure seating areas were plentiful

  • @seti48
    @seti48 ปีที่แล้ว

    I thought ships all had barometers on them.

    • @tinkertailor7385
      @tinkertailor7385 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      The storm was to the south of them and towards their destination of St Joseph, so the steamship owner knew they'd be sailing into the storm and tried to get a message to them. The ship's barometer in Milwaukee was probably low, but not too concerning..... They didn't have the weather reports like we do today.

    • @seti48
      @seti48 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@tinkertailor7385 Thanks for clearing that up.

  • @johnalder6028
    @johnalder6028 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    That's why I travel by train.

    • @Oakleaf700
      @Oakleaf700 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Plenty of terrible train disasters...Quintinshill, Scotland. Full of WW1 Servicemen. Two hundred men died.
      No transport is 100% safe.

    • @johnalder6028
      @johnalder6028 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Oakleaf700 True but I figure if I am on a train I will most of the time be on the ground .

    • @Oakleaf700
      @Oakleaf700 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@johnalder6028 I think what freaked me out about trains was hearing about the Moorgate Underground crash.[London] where a tube driver crashed into a blind ended tunnel without stopping.
      The reason for him doing this is unknown.

    • @johnalder6028
      @johnalder6028 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Oakleaf700 In New York City a long time ago there was a crash in the train tunnel back in the days of steam engines. It lead to safety improvements. I never felt unsafe on a train and never enjoyed air travel. Greetings from Port Saint Lucie Florida !

    • @Oakleaf700
      @Oakleaf700 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@johnalder6028 Greetings from Bristol, England! Florida sounds a lot warmer than here at present.
      Now air travel..I have to agree..Not pleasant!
      Trapped in a metal cylinder high above ground with lots of other people and no chance to get out..
      Trains at least one can get out at stations.

  • @tincup3773
    @tincup3773 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It probably exploded

  • @debbiebalnaves4842
    @debbiebalnaves4842 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This is one reason why I drive where I want to go !
    I don't fly either !
    Take my chances in a car !

    • @miapdx503
      @miapdx503 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I like to travel by train, if I'm going long distances.