Awesome video, I used essentially this same method when my wife and I went top roping. Only thing I would say is stay tied in while you are working near the edge. I wear my harness when I'm setting up top rope, and once I set up one anchor to a tree I tie a prussik into the anchor rope and clip it into my harness, that way if you slip you don't go over the edge, and you can slide the prussik up and down that anchor rope to move as you work up there.
Brett If I was making a TH-cam video showing others, I recon I’d be a little more responsible and at least promote being secured on top of the climb. Accidents do happen. I feel this guys intent came across good, but reality was a little irresponsible accidentally
Really like this video and have shared it with others, very informative, not boring, and thankfully to the point! The one thing I would add for beginners is to make sure you harness up and tie off when you approach the edge... just for safety. Cheers!
GuideYouOutdoors I go to SUNY Potsdam in upstate NY near the Adirondacks. Only difference in ours is that we sling the second tree and clip it with a figure 8 on a bight instead of the friction.
"I'M TALKING WITH MY MOUTH FULL, MOM" Love it, good video and great advice. Suggest using a towel or shirt in between the rope and tree if the route is popular because excessive anchor tying and pressure can damage the tree over time.
@@elijahkorneffel2960your not using the tree for friction, your using it for an anchor. Still, only if you went there ALL the time, would you want to try and protect it, a few times here and there ain't going to do much.
@@chanthing Also the friction around the tree means the knot doesn't hold much weight at all. By the time the tension gets to the knot it's barely noticeable. If you ever saw those cowboy movies where they just throw the horse reins a couple warps around a wooden bar. No knot or anything. The friction of those 2 wraps is enough that the horse wont be able to pull it loose.
i agree, i'd like a breakdown of the knots you use and your gear...brand, cost, suggestions, specs. you are very charismatic but not over the top. a very good treacher as well. nice job to all those involved.
Can you do a video where you show the bowline you did around the tree? It's to fast to see in this video and I like how fast you are able to tie it. I would love to learn your trick!
Great video bud, really informative and not boring at all like most instructions video...question tho, do you always anchor to two trees? what if there's only one? i reckon a tree that size in your video that is not dead would be more than sufficient to hold a climber's weight no? Are there any documented report of a LIVE tree giving out and sending the climber down the cliff?
There are other reasons besides redundancy to tie to a second anchor - the "V" he was talking about, if done correctly, reduces the load placed on each anchor...plus the tree is not the only point of possible failure; the rope could snap, biner burst, etc.
DetNosnip You are exactly correct. It always a general rule to have redundancy with anchors especially when toproping. Its also better for the trees to reduce the load on each tree with the "V" Never trust your life to one anchor or one piece of gear. Thanks for the post and response.
hey dude nice video! just came here to refresh my skills, but i noticed you don't use a tether when walking inches away from the cliff edge. Perhaps if you are giving an instructional video to beginners, maybe stress the importance of using a line with a prusik to go near the edge? what if you fainted or tripped?
+guideyououtdoors - really cool video. Thanks. Question - what's your favourite method of tying off the second tree/anchor if you still have a tonne of rope to deal with?
+Hans Haken I'm glad you liked the video. I don't know if you can get more secure then a bowline and a fisherman's backup. I think that alone is 100% secure no matter how far away the fisherman's is. Actually I think a properly tied bowline is 100% secure, but as climbers we back it up anyway.
warriorusma102 In this system you got to get the anchors from the top. You could top out, tear it down and set a rappel that is easy to retrieve. I hope to make a video on just that skill. Keep you eyes open for it to come soon. Thanks for the post.
yeah ive looked at several videos but no one allows to see it due to the camera angles at the time of using the tail of the rope through the "rabbit hole", for some reason every video i've seen does that part either to fast or covers it with their hand. I guess ill have to keep looking, thanks for your prompt response!
Solid video, one suggestion would be to get in the habit of tying barrel knots on each end of your rope before you throw it over the edge. This eliminates the possibilty of you rappeling off the end of your rope when you head down.
I prefer to sleeve my ropes and lay my tie ins above the edge on a tarp. This keeps dirt and sharp edges from cutting into the rope or dirt getting under the sheath and wearing the fibers out. I also don't go beyond 40 degrees between anchors. As the angle increase so does the stress on the carabiners sides.
Claude Rains I agree on the 40 degrees. the sleeves and tie ins seem to take too much time. I use to do them. Since I stopped I have not seen any extra wear on the ropes. Just make sure their static and there is very little wear.
+Fred Lastname Yes, these trees are trustworthy. Always check the tree by trying to shake it a bit and that is also why we use 2 trees. Just in case one does fail.
If a tree is a foot in diameter but is growing out of a crack, how could the roots be as strong as the trunk if their size is limited based off the size of the crack?
Love the video! This seems like a safe and quick way to set up a top rope anchor. I just have one question: Do I need to be concerned about triaxial loading of the biners? Is the angle between the ropes leading to the trees small enough where it's not a concern? One solution I thought of was leaving a few feet of line between the two figure eights on a bight, and then using that excess line to tie a fisherman's knot on a bight just above the two figure eights and around the two ropes leading to the trees to bring them together. Now, the figure eights on a bight are completely vertical. What do you think?
***** You can do that, but its not necessary. As long as the angle is less then 45 degrees you are ok. And the ropes hang over the edge. The longer you hang them the smaller the angle. One thing I like to keep in mind is to not make it too complicated for efficiency. I go out to climb not set anchors. Thanks for the comment and I'm glad you enjoyed the vid
GuideYouOutdoors Thanks so much for the quick response! I used the setup recently for top roping and I was happy with how quick it was to setup, and how easy it is to get your master point exactly where you want it.
I've never seen it anywhere else. I kinda wonder why bother with it. Most master points in webbing are just one over hand and static line is stronger than webbing
+chrisgast At this climbing location it was easy and safe to walk around to the top of the cliff. If that is not an option then you will have to lead climb.
"single Fisherman's?" I went looking for that - it seems like the rest of the knotheads on the web don't agree with that description...a single Fisherman's knot is just THE most basic knot you can make. I think what you're making is one half of a "double fisherman's knot," but that's not the same as a "single Fisherman's". Knot to be too nerdy...I seriously wanted to figure out what you did there. And don't even get me started on the boom-bowline...no idea how.
+ozolagniac Thanks for the clarification. I hear you on the single fishermans. You are right it is half of a double fishermans and that is the way it was taught to me to me. Its the same knot used to back up a figure eight when tying off to a harness. Really only used by institutions when teaching climbing. I will make a video soon on the way I tied that bowline. Thanks for watching.
This is awesome video. Best I've seen. Thanks. I'm getting back into climbing after some years off at the insistence of my wife :) Wasn't looking forward to what I remember about all the time setting up anchors. I'm wondering if you could do the same with webbing: 1) Water knot at first tree, 2) Two overhands at masterpoint, 3) Friction knot finished with water knot and carabiner at 2nd tree?
jesu suqeth you can do this system with webbing. Just be aware that webbing stretches a lot and if it hangs over a sharp edge the stretching can wear on the webbing. Also be warned that the water and overhand knots will be very hard to untie at the end of the day. best of luck
It depends on the distance the trees are from the cliff edge. I used a 55 ft rope in this video. I also have a 100ft rope and a 20 ft rope. You can always tie 2 together with a double fishermans as well. Thanks for the post.
So I have watched a couple of different "how to set an anchor" videos, am I only one who mandates tying in at the top of a cliff. Chances are you not going to trip but if you do the consequences can be high. Just saying put a harness on and enter the system chances, you are not going to fall but....
I was just about to write the exact same! Been watching a couple of these and noone ties themselves in at the top before walking up towards the edge. Meanwhile talking about "never trust just one tree".
For y'all wondering the type of dog: Belgian Malinois I looked everywhere, and he lists it in the comment section of: "Winter solo with cool tech gadgets and primitive skills"
Isn't a dynamic rope exactly what you want if you fall, when you're climbing? The stretch reduces the force of your fall, And it saves both your rope and could save your life.
@@damienmitchell9828 Im from Sweden and no one, here uses static rope for climbing at all. Except for anchors, And thats kinda how everyone do here, in Europe as well. If you watch youtube videos of the pros etc they have dynamic ropes all the time. Didn't one of the best free climbing climber, die just because he had a static rope and a bad harness. When he fell, the rope didn't stretch at all and the harness got destroyed and he died, kinda ironic.
Here is a quote about static ropes from REI who sells climbed ropes. "Never use a static rope for top roping or lead climbing as they are not designed, tested or certified for those types of loads."
@@GuideYouOutdoors at timecode 2:30 I understood you to say something like 'as we are just top roping here, we don't need dynamic rope with stretch.' In the video it looks like you used a short length of static rope for the belay and another static rope as the climbing rope. Not trying to criticise you personally. I will try and find a DMM video on short falls on dyneema. Not quite the same, but good material on the issues of using even a static sling/rope.
@@GuideYouOutdoors video I mentioned from DMM the guys who manufacturer carabineers in UK. th-cam.com/video/Vrgadjo9niY/w-d-xo.html Also in video noticed that the single fisherman's knot was: a) not a single fisherman's knot b) the incorrect knot for this setup c) no secondary knot in place d) knot too close to end of rope Also noticed you did not tie yourself into the system as a first step and weren't wearing a harness. I started climbing in 1978, and have so far managed to stay alive. My comments might not go down well with you. But bear in mind beginners watch your videos and take what you say as gospel. So it is my duty to point out safety issues. I make a point to never criticise a TH-cam video unless I see something dangerous. I would advise taking down this video. A word to beginners. Watch instructions from manufacturers of climbing gear and official qualified climbing guides for a particular country (which I am not, so you shouldn't even listen to me).
I need to get hold of some Oreos before going out tomorrow, they seem like a crucial part of the system.
Awesome video, I used essentially this same method when my wife and I went top roping. Only thing I would say is stay tied in while you are working near the edge. I wear my harness when I'm setting up top rope, and once I set up one anchor to a tree I tie a prussik into the anchor rope and clip it into my harness, that way if you slip you don't go over the edge, and you can slide the prussik up and down that anchor rope to move as you work up there.
Brett If I was making a TH-cam video showing others, I recon I’d be a little more responsible and at least promote being secured on top of the climb. Accidents do happen. I feel this guys intent came across good, but reality was a little irresponsible accidentally
@@brianbrooking496 yeah I agree it's a great video. Just thought I'd add that fact for novice climbers (like myself)
I like your energy bro. You seem like a guy that really enjoys life. 👍
Really like this video and have shared it with others, very informative, not boring, and thankfully to the point! The one thing I would add for beginners is to make sure you harness up and tie off when you approach the edge... just for safety. Cheers!
This is the exact method they teach in the rock climbing class at my college. Great video!
Thanks Hiker1792. What college do you go to? There is more than one way to set an anchor, but the oreos is the most important part.
GuideYouOutdoors I go to SUNY Potsdam in upstate NY near the Adirondacks. Only difference in ours is that we sling the second tree and clip it with a figure 8 on a bight instead of the friction.
I like the friction knot a little more, just because it makes it so easy to equalize. Happy climbing.
Good video !
Great lesson!
I will definitely be using this method 🇺🇸💪
"I'M TALKING WITH MY MOUTH FULL, MOM"
Love it, good video and great advice. Suggest using a towel or shirt in between the rope and tree if the route is popular because excessive anchor tying and pressure can damage the tree over time.
Wouldn't that undo the whole friction aspect?
@@elijahkorneffel2960your not using the tree for friction, your using it for an anchor. Still, only if you went there ALL the time, would you want to try and protect it, a few times here and there ain't going to do much.
Definitely one of the better guides I've come across about this, thanks!
He seems really good, but a guide not having some form of personal anchor while showing people how to set anchors is not ideal
Excellent video, just what I was looking for. Thanks 😋
edge protection is non existent but your clear and precise and your energy is groovy! Keep up the good work just don't fall off, it can get messy.
"i dont trust my life to one knot." *ties single fishermans on a friction wrap*
lol, right
lol that anchor is bombproof
@@ASNIV_ probably, I've used the same one just making fun of the wording over the knot
Because of the way he tied the figure 8s, that single fisherman could fail and the anchor would not. It's really the third knot in the system.
@@chanthing Also the friction around the tree means the knot doesn't hold much weight at all. By the time the tension gets to the knot it's barely noticeable.
If you ever saw those cowboy movies where they just throw the horse reins a couple warps around a wooden bar. No knot or anything. The friction of those 2 wraps is enough that the horse wont be able to pull it loose.
Great video and I love the attitude!!!
i agree, i'd like a breakdown of the knots you use and your gear...brand, cost, suggestions, specs.
you are very charismatic but not over the top. a very good treacher as well. nice job to all those involved.
You're great, man. Good video and entertaining...not talking like you're the only person that knows anything about this. Kudos! Great vid!
quick and nice man, good job!
Can you do a video where you show the bowline you did around the tree? It's to fast to see in this video and I like how fast you are able to tie it. I would love to learn your trick!
Love your vibes bro 🤙
Love to see a vid or read your recommendations for a solo top roping anchor set up. Thanks
the background music and the scenery reminded me the brockeback mountain
Great video bud, really informative and not boring at all like most instructions video...question tho, do you always anchor to two trees? what if there's only one? i reckon a tree that size in your video that is not dead would be more than sufficient to hold a climber's weight no? Are there any documented report of a LIVE tree giving out and sending the climber down the cliff?
There are other reasons besides redundancy to tie to a second anchor - the "V" he was talking about, if done correctly, reduces the load placed on each anchor...plus the tree is not the only point of possible failure; the rope could snap, biner burst, etc.
DetNosnip You are exactly correct. It always a general rule to have redundancy with anchors especially when toproping. Its also better for the trees to reduce the load on each tree with the "V"
Never trust your life to one anchor or one piece of gear. Thanks for the post and response.
Love this guy!
Could you use a short section of fire hose, from fire department, as a sleeve for the rope on the edge?
What type of rope is your top anchor? Size, length? Great video thank you.
static climbing rope. 10 Mill in thickness and about 60 ft long.
Quick question, why did you use the same knot of both trees ?
hey dude nice video! just came here to refresh my skills, but i noticed you don't use a tether when walking inches away from the cliff edge. Perhaps if you are giving an instructional video to beginners, maybe stress the importance of using a line with a prusik to go near the edge? what if you fainted or tripped?
+guideyououtdoors - really cool video. Thanks. Question - what's your favourite method of tying off the second tree/anchor if you still have a tonne of rope to deal with?
awesome video! i've heard setting the fishermans knot right up against the bowline is more secure....thoughts?
+Hans Haken I'm glad you liked the video. I don't know if you can get more secure then a bowline and a fisherman's backup. I think that alone is 100% secure no matter how far away the fisherman's is. Actually I think a properly tied bowline is 100% secure, but as climbers we back it up anyway.
truly great video bro nice got any tips on how to retrieve your rope after descending/belaying
warriorusma102 In this system you got to get the anchors from the top. You could top out, tear it down and set a rappel that is easy to retrieve. I hope to make a video on just that skill. Keep you eyes open for it to come soon. Thanks for the post.
“I’ll go past the Oreos. That’s trouble”
Words to live by
Any chance you have a video on how to tie the first knot you did? i believe you said it was a bowline knot? thanks a lot from Mexico!. Roger
Rogelio Rogel Yes the bowline knot. There are a lot of different ways to tie it and if you search on google you can find a good one.
yeah ive looked at several videos but no one allows to see it due to the camera angles at the time of using the tail of the rope through the "rabbit hole", for some reason every video i've seen does that part either to fast or covers it with their hand. I guess ill have to keep looking, thanks for your prompt response!
hey thanks a lot man!!
Excellent video! Forgot to tie off the ends of the rope though
Maybe a stupid question but what keeps the rock from rubbing the rope in half?!?!
This was very well explained. I wish you would have used a personal safety device while working so close to the edge of a cliff.
Solid video, one suggestion would be to get in the habit of tying barrel knots on each end of your rope before you throw it over the edge. This eliminates the possibilty of you rappeling off the end of your rope when you head down.
Maybe think about some security on the top of the cliff there, but other than that looking good man!
Can you make a video showing how to tie the single fisherman's knot as your backup knot?
You need a video just for that fancy bowline.... seriously.
+lifeisgood070 Great suggestion. I will get on that.
This is it: th-cam.com/video/J2AWR90lALc/w-d-xo.html&t
@@dcorradhin126 AWESOME! THANK YOU!
how many feet of static line did you use
Zack Lauw about 50 ft.
Could I use a bowline on the second tree? That makes me feel better than the friction system you used.
Wrap a rope around a tree 3 times get someone else to hold the loose end and try to pull it, that should help you trust the friction ;-)
I prefer to sleeve my ropes and lay my tie ins above the edge on a tarp. This keeps dirt and sharp edges from cutting into the rope or dirt getting under the sheath and wearing the fibers out.
I also don't go beyond 40 degrees between anchors. As the angle increase so does the stress on the carabiners sides.
Claude Rains I agree on the 40 degrees. the sleeves and tie ins seem to take too much time. I use to do them. Since I stopped I have not seen any extra wear on the ropes. Just make sure their static and there is very little wear.
I like a bhk for my masterpoint vs two figure of eights.
Pretty good vid but i would have more edge security if nothing else but to set a good example
FYI, for everyone else that does not know, "static rope" still stretches. OMG!!!!!. They really should call it, "High stretch" and" low Stretch".
Are trees at the edge of a cliff really rooted well enough for this? How can a tree that size grow out of a crack and be stable?
+Fred Lastname Yes, these trees are trustworthy. Always check the tree by trying to shake it a bit and that is also why we use 2 trees. Just in case one does fail.
If a tree is a foot in diameter but is growing out of a crack, how could the roots be as strong as the trunk if their size is limited based off the size of the crack?
you ever even seen a tree before? they're not made in China man...
Love the video! This seems like a safe and quick way to set up a top rope anchor.
I just have one question: Do I need to be concerned about triaxial loading of the biners? Is the angle between the ropes leading to the trees small enough where it's not a concern?
One solution I thought of was leaving a few feet of line between the two figure eights on a bight, and then using that excess line to tie a fisherman's knot on a bight just above the two figure eights and around the two ropes leading to the trees to bring them together. Now, the figure eights on a bight are completely vertical. What do you think?
***** You can do that, but its not necessary. As long as the angle is less then 45 degrees you are ok. And the ropes hang over the edge. The longer you hang them the smaller the angle. One thing I like to keep in mind is to not make it too complicated for efficiency. I go out to climb not set anchors. Thanks for the comment and I'm glad you enjoyed the vid
GuideYouOutdoors Thanks so much for the quick response! I used the setup recently for top roping and I was happy with how quick it was to setup, and how easy it is to get your master point exactly where you want it.
Anybody else use, or can comment on using, two figure 8s for the master point? Seems sensible, but never seen it before.
I've never seen it anywhere else. I kinda wonder why bother with it. Most master points in webbing are just one over hand and static line is stronger than webbing
Maybe I missed it, but how does a person have an anchor at the top if they are at the bottom before a climb?
+chrisgast At this climbing location it was easy and safe to walk around to the top of the cliff. If that is not an option then you will have to lead climb.
Lead climb? Okay. I guess that is something to learn.
this guys' the next Billy Mays
0:40 don't fall off.
"single Fisherman's?" I went looking for that - it seems like the rest of the knotheads on the web don't agree with that description...a single Fisherman's knot is just THE most basic knot you can make. I think what you're making is one half of a "double fisherman's knot," but that's not the same as a "single Fisherman's".
Knot to be too nerdy...I seriously wanted to figure out what you did there. And don't even get me started on the boom-bowline...no idea how.
+ozolagniac Thanks for the clarification. I hear you on the single fishermans. You are right it is half of a double fishermans and that is the way it was taught to me to me. Its the same knot used to back up a figure eight when tying off to a harness. Really only used by institutions when teaching climbing. I will make a video soon on the way I tied that bowline. Thanks for watching.
This is awesome video. Best I've seen. Thanks. I'm getting back into climbing after some years off at the insistence of my wife :) Wasn't looking forward to what I remember about all the time setting up anchors. I'm wondering if you could do the same with webbing: 1) Water knot at first tree, 2) Two overhands at masterpoint, 3) Friction knot finished with water knot and carabiner at 2nd tree?
jesu suqeth you can do this system with webbing. Just be aware that webbing stretches a lot and if it hangs over a sharp edge the stretching can wear on the webbing. Also be warned that the water and overhand knots will be very hard to untie at the end of the day. best of luck
hehehe nice man...BOOM!!!
everyone loves oreos. Thanks for the love.
How many feet of rope do you have for tree anchors?
It depends on the distance the trees are from the cliff edge. I used a 55 ft rope in this video. I also have a 100ft rope and a 20 ft rope. You can always tie 2 together with a double fishermans as well. Thanks for the post.
On your second anchor, there was no back up knot. Why is that?
TJentzsch The friction wrap is knot one and the fisherman's is the backup. Does that make sense?
BOOOMM! Thank you!
Why does the second tree only need a single fishermans, and no bowline?
Tensionless hitch
So I have watched a couple of different "how to set an anchor" videos, am I only one who mandates tying in at the top of a cliff. Chances are you not going to trip but if you do the consequences can be high. Just saying put a harness on and enter the system chances, you are not going to fall but....
totally agree, safety first...and rock climbing is all about backups, good recommendation.
I was just about to write the exact same! Been watching a couple of these and noone ties themselves in at the top before walking up towards the edge. Meanwhile talking about "never trust just one tree".
Brian M especially when walking back and forth over ropes
Do you have a video showing your trying off at the top? I've forgotten how!
you may be related to John McEnroe, same voice, same vibe.
Great info but you went super fast and I'm new not trying to die lol
Why isn't one knot enough? My guide did not teach me this 🤔
Here is a link to a new video we did on the quick and easy way to tie a bowline knot.
th-cam.com/video/J2AWR90lALc/w-d-xo.html
For y'all wondering the type of dog: Belgian Malinois
I looked everywhere, and he lists it in the comment section of: "Winter solo with cool tech gadgets and primitive skills"
Boom
"I'm trying to keep this nice and clean in my and because I will be throwing this coil off the cliff."
~Climbing logic.
He doesnt mean clean as in lacking dirt(which is important) he means keeping it from getting tangled up as it falls down
Alex Hecimovich I got that, it was just a funny thing to say.
I've rushed that part before and thrown a knotted rope over the edge, much better to do it right the first time and not have to pull it back up
He looked at it. He knows two is one and one is none! I mean, one sturdy tree is probly ok?
sveet !
What if im climbing up a tree and i need an anchor??
Most dangerous part: Oreos.Bad sugar!
"you never trust just one knot when you're climbing" you mean except for the figure 8? lol
Isn't a dynamic rope exactly what you want if you fall, when you're climbing? The stretch reduces the force of your fall, And it saves both your rope and could save your life.
Since he is climbing with a static rope as well?
@@damienmitchell9828 Im from Sweden and no one, here uses static rope for climbing at all. Except for anchors, And thats kinda how everyone do here, in Europe as well. If you watch youtube videos of the pros etc they have dynamic ropes all the time.
Didn't one of the best free climbing climber, die just because he had a static rope and a bad harness. When he fell, the rope didn't stretch at all and the harness got destroyed and he died, kinda ironic.
Here is a quote about static ropes from REI who sells climbed ropes. "Never use a static rope for top roping or lead climbing as they are not designed, tested or certified for those types of loads."
right you don't use it as a rope for climbing (the rope you are tied into), static rope is used for building anchors like we use in this video
@@GuideYouOutdoors at timecode 2:30 I understood you to say something like 'as we are just top roping here, we don't need dynamic rope with stretch.' In the video it looks like you used a short length of static rope for the belay and another static rope as the climbing rope. Not trying to criticise you personally. I will try and find a DMM video on short falls on dyneema. Not quite the same, but good material on the issues of using even a static sling/rope.
@@GuideYouOutdoors video I mentioned from DMM the guys who manufacturer carabineers in UK.
th-cam.com/video/Vrgadjo9niY/w-d-xo.html
Also in video noticed that the single fisherman's knot was:
a) not a single fisherman's knot
b) the incorrect knot for this setup
c) no secondary knot in place
d) knot too close to end of rope
Also noticed you did not tie yourself into the system as a first step and weren't wearing a harness.
I started climbing in 1978, and have so far managed to stay alive. My comments might not go down well with you. But bear in mind beginners watch your videos and take what you say as gospel. So it is my duty to point out safety issues. I make a point to never criticise a TH-cam video unless I see something dangerous. I would advise taking down this video.
A word to beginners. Watch instructions from manufacturers of climbing gear and official qualified climbing guides for a particular country (which I am not, so you shouldn't even listen to me).
@@RogerBays Never climb on static rope is the rule to take away. Static rope is only for building anchors.
04:05 Oreos
well I guess that is one way to do it, but kiss it.
To many platitudesvto think you know.......