I love my Zeta6 loaders. I use them for my K6s. I carry them in a speed loader pouch at one o’clock. They do take practice but work MUCH better than speed strips.
Good review. I've been using these for several years and they do take practice. Overall I prefer the J and K pack since I often have larger grips on my smaller revolvers, although the K clips work well with full size K frame revolvers. From personal carry, they do retain in a pocket more so than a more conventional speed loader. Even though I'm left handed, like you, I've always loaded from the right.
Good review HR. I found a great speed loader from Five Star Firearms in Zion IL. CNC machined in aluminum. Very light, high quality and sturdy. A slight twist of knob to the left releases the cartridges. They also make aluminum bench blocks. I carry two speed loaders for my Ruger LCR in 357. Works very well without fumbling a reload!
The K Pak was designed to be used to insert with the left hand only. It would need 7 holes to make it ambidextrous. You'll notice that their J Pak has 6 holes. This allows you to orient the rounds for left or right hand insertion in a j frame without twisting your hand around or having to orient you cylinder in a weird way like you do with the K Pak when trying to use your right hand when trying to insert the rounds. You should test out the J Pak with a j frame. It lets you load 3 and 2 making it faster than a speed strip but thinner than a speed loader.
I like the concept of the staggered “speedstrips.” I’ve never through of a speedstrip as a “reload the empty cylinder all at once” solution-they’re as slow as a dump pouch. Instead, I’ve seen them as a convenient means of keeping rounds organized for a quick administrative top-off of an empty gun-two rounds, close cylinder, reassess. The J-clip would increase that capability to three rounds, but it would also require much more attention to orientation. As far as carrying speedloaders is concerned, the very best on the market are JetLoaders. Very secure, very fast. They’re no bigger than a double-stack magazine. The main problem is carrying them (no major companies make pouches), but one’s local leather or kydex resource can fix that with a custom piece.
I’m excited to try some of the SL Variant loaders. All I’ve seen has them marked as the very best. They are again available curious to see if they truly are that good.
I got some of those for my Ruger LCRx .357 Magnum. I really like them (after they're broken in)! I use the "peel away" method you demonstrated as well.
I favor HKS speed loaders and always carry two in my pocket or vest pocket when carrrying a DA revolver. I do add now and then a speed strip as well but to augment the speed loaders. Speed strips do take some training but DONT LAUGH, times when I have that MOOD, probably a full moon or something, and pack my COLT MODEL P 4.75" .45 Colt revolver or even the RUGER BLACKHAWK 4 5/8" .357 (even more rare than my Colt I load 5 and carry one or 2 speed strips to do a reload. It takes practice but is faster than single rounds.
Thanks HR,I’ve been using the zeta 6 speed loader for about a year and I have grown to really like them. They work in my s&w j frame, my charter arms off duty and also on my ruger sp101. I still use my hks speed loaders also.
H.R., I've always liked the revolver and will get one in the near future but being a lefty I had many issues that needed answered as far as reloading, proper protocol so to speak, shooting stance, and using reloader's like this video shows. I have to say, I have learned a lot. Also, many of your video's are pretty concise with lots of info and you go one step further than other sites in your close-ups with accompanied info. This video answered loads of questions for me now, I just have to settle on a particular revolver to get it all going. Thank You.
I could see some utility from the Jclips in the round orientation, it seems it would require a lot of fine motor skills to use the strip configuration, based on that I’d use the round ones and relegate the strips for range use.
I tried these out and you had better luck with them than I did. I did find that the cartridges came out of the J-clip in my pocket and I never did master going 5-for-5 on a reload. If I only dropped one cartridge, I'd just index on the empty chamber and be happy to have four shots. Very frustrating. On the other hand, I am pretty good with traditional speed strips that I have used since the '70s. And I reload with my right hand as HR does.
Good video, and they seem to work well, years ago in competition I tried speed loaders like everyone else and never got used to them, my loose rounds in the jacket pocket I am sure cost me time but just the way I did it.
The older but similar speedstrips were loaded in a similar tipping method. I found the older straight in line loaders easy to use and the same ones were used for 5 or 6 round cylinders. I used them for spare after the round speedloaders. Thanks for the video.
The Kpack I do other orientation revo upwards and RIP Up outside of cylinder first rotate to other Outside of cylinder RIP upwards w forefinger on the spine for leverage. The full clips would sometimes hang up on grips.. the kpacks were more reliable for me to not get a really FUBAR situation
@@hrfunk nope..always right...but stay both arms on one side of revo just like u would a regular speedloader.(I don't up and over on outside rather come up under on Inside)..do the outside of cylinder ie the side nearest ur body...use forefinger straight behind the kpack for alignment and leverage to rip up...other hand rotates cylinder to rip upwards again now 3 chambers most outward. Pretty sure that's what I did IDPA and in my vid
Thanks much for your honest review HR. I hope you don't mind if I clear up one point. The J-, and K-CLIPs, and the J-PAK are ambidextrous. Only the K-PAK slightly favors LH loading, but still work great using either hand.
Chief, These devises will have their fanboy's like most things do. I've been CCW-ing for 45 years and have pretty much tried every method and gizmo available. The problem with these are they are big, bulky and awkward to carry in a pants pocket or shirt pocket and are more practical in a jacket pocket - but of course that requires wearing a jacket in the first place!. They require constant practice (not a bad thing actually) and they do change properties when the material they are made out of ages. I carried a M60-7 for 40 years and wound up using a dump pouch on the belt when using an OWB holster. When pocket carrying in a DeSantis Nemesis I had a special pouch modified my my local Seamstress that would hold the 38 spl. cartridges and allow easy access as it was flat and easily carried in any front pocket. The methods I used also required practice on a regular basis, but I became quite fast and quite adept at a reload with them. There are many advantages of using the method I did. You can do a partial reload, your can insert the rounds more easily one by one or two by two than by using one of these devises, and you never have an excuse to not have a reloaded pouch as it is simple a, easy and comfortable to have with you all the time. I now carry a Sig P365 which made a reload even easier - LOL!!
It seems to be a very good effort on a product that, at this time, has not fully developed for serious use. I hope they look at your content, take your comments and make improvements. Best of luck to them for trying! I have always been a great fan of the Safariland Comp 1 Speedloader. They are more compact than most of the others. They are spring loaded and shoot the rounds into cylinder thus loading your chambers all at once and in a hurry! Just line it up, a slight push, shut the cylinder and you are back in business not now but right now with no secondary motion of turning a knob. Back in the land before time, I had a Safariland Speedloader Pouch that was very compact and held four of the Comp 1s. It was only slightly larger than a pouch that held only two. This was due to the compactness of the Comp 1. Like you in my opinion, Speedstrips serve little purpose more than keeping you from having rounds loose in your pocket or pouch. Not very fast at all.
My personal opinion is that they can be a must-have for a shooter. Out on the range they are convenient to have a bunch of them to sort out your ammo and load easier than from a box, which for the forest shooter where a bench might not be available to set an ammo box on is nice, plus if you lose some clips so what? As far as for legitimate self defense or carry, i'm going with a "real" speed loader. Is that your 342 TI?
I am thankful for this video as I have been considering buying the KPAC. It seems more fidly then a conventional speed strip and less likely to fit in the watch pocket of my pants.
Nice review hr. These obviously are not as fast and convenient as a magazine into an auto loader but for those that employ a revolver a convenient choice over separate rounds in your pocket or a bulkier speed loader
1 benefit of the speed strip is if you change your grips to something bigger (fatter, wider, bulky) a traditional speed loader wont fit. So at least there are some options available.
Hello HR. No notification from TH-cam today. They must be mad at you again. I have no experience with these loaders, but was not a fan of the speed strips. Preferred the positive retention of Safariland and HKS speed loaders. The Safariland Comp loaders we're fidgety to fill. With the cam lock they were just push in and drop to load the revolvers. Can't get much simpler than that except for moon clips.
I prefer the HKS speed loader and keep them in a pouch. Rubber speed loaders I worry about holding up over time, especially when in contact with oils and constant use. I've experimented with leather speed strips for a single action revolver, but tend to prefer a 2x3 cartridge pouch.
I've used the Zeta 6 speedloader type (clips) since they came out, mostly when carrying a J frame in the car console. I absolutely love them. I wouldn't carry them on my person for concealed carry revolver, but then again, I won't carry any speedloader or moon clips for that purpose -- they're just too bulky. When carrying a 586 L-Comp (7 round L Frame 357), I'll carry an appropriate speed strip either in my pocket, or on my belt in a leather holder. I don't think there are really any "ideal" solutions to carrying spare ammo for a concealed revolver.
I agree the speedstrip can load two at a time but as you say you have to turn it 180 degrees for the next two. I still carry em since everything else is bulky and rather than loose rounds they at least keep all the rounds together and pointed in the right direction.... I know no big deal? Kinda tho... cause fumbling around getting rounds out one at a time and looking or going full brail to get em pointed in the right direction. One use for the strips for me is for SAA and clones... LOL... as I say... they keep 6 rounds all together and pointed in the right direction and.... you can put em in smaller pockets or shirt pockets that would not work for loose rounds. If I am going for a full cyl type speedloader.. my only option is the Safariland... the short version. not very bulky in the 5 short version
Watching this, I'm thinking a deep concealed backup is in order instead of a reload under fire/stress. A LCP Max or the like, or a second revolver. I love my revolvers, but I'm 57 and have lost hand strength. I have some interesting 5 round loaders from the Charter Arms website. I think Vulcan Ballistics made them. They look like a good concept, but I've found they'll take a lot of practice to use quickly. I got them for my 1986 357 snubbie. If I have to fire all the rounds in a cylinder and the situation is not resolved, I'll pull out the backup and reload the revolver later.
Excellent review, but, I prefer HK or Safaryland speedloaders The strips loaders are better option for partial reloads and It’s important to carry on with a case for this purpose.
I ordered these J and K packs and to be honest, they did not replace my HKS loaders. Nothing wrong with them and I think if I practiced more, I would get used to them. I don't see that much of an advantage over a traditional speed loader except for cost.
I wonder if an iteration of that could be used in competition by having all the rounds on a chest rig allowing to move in with the revolver, without handling the ammo with the hands. If the rig is rigid and one is indexing the cylinder correctly it might be quick. Some of the safari land users have the fingers on the ammo to guide it and find the index. I wonder if that grip could be used with their loader by adding a thumb loop, allowing to hold ammo for a potential reload on the hand while using both during the first cylinder, using the fingers to guide, having the palm still on the back and ripping on a ring with the thumb. If that works Zeta6, send me a rig.
Interesting review! Those look to be "disposable". I think I'll just keep using my HKS Speed loaders and their Belt Carriers. Love that S&W Carry Comp!!!
It strikes me that reloading any firearm under pressure has many ways to go wrong. Reloading a revolver doubly so. If you are going down the revolver route the following questions seem pertinent. Is this speed loader easier and more reliable than a conventional speed loader? Is it easier to carry? Is it as hard wearing, given the need to practice? Or are they so cheap they can be regarded as disposable? The big question for me is If you've already fired 5 or 6 rounds and you are still in trouble, how fast does a reload need to be, to be of that much practical help?
Unfortunately, there are no statistics that I would trust regarding the frequency of reloads in a citizen involved defensive shooting. I think it’s safe to say they are rare, but I wouldn’t want to be the exception that makes the rule. When I carry a wheelie, I typically carry at least one speedloader.
To add a purely civilian perspective: I'm not sure I see any real advantage to the Zeta6 J&K-clips over a traditional speedloader, with the possible exception of cost. The difference in weight is negligible in practical application, and security of the rounds in the loader is reduced. The footprint of the loaded unit on a belt or in a pocket is not substantially changed. That's not a big problem if you're an LE officer, even off duty, but in many civilian concealment applications it can become troublesome. While I understand your distaste for the traditional Speed Strips, they DO have a place if you're carrying a revolver in a situation where absolute concealment is required, keeping the rounds flat and in line in your pocket, so that they actually conceal better than even carrying them loose. This is ideal for some civilian applications and undercover LE operations. The K-Pack looks as though it may offer a reasonable compromise between those two extremes, offering a relatively flat appearance that might conceal fairly well in the pocket of certain types of garments. (Perhaps something you could do some follow-up experimentation with?)
I did do a vid of these products and also used them in my 2nd Colt vs Smith snub showdown I did. I also used the Kpacks and hks speedloader to reload at IDPA once....both took a long long time but about the same...12 seconds usually. Ur trained up to maybe half that time and paul harrell is about 7 seconds...that's still a long time. I think Old Cop did in one of his shootouts but I belive he reloaded around corner of a building in a long range shoot n chase situation
With conventional speedloaders, a complete reloads within 6-7 seconds. I don't think these would be any slower than that. Whether or not that makes a difference would depend entirely upon the circumstances of the encounter.
@@hrfunkmy point is draw to 1st shot 1.5.... .25 splits is fast w a revo and more like .35 w a . 357...multiple transitions ok empty in 4-5 seconds from beginning....plus 7 seconds (ur trained up and that's from a speedloader pouch not pocket)...well 11-12 seconds from start until your reloaded (and I'm more like 16 seconds at that point) is very long for a gunfight and most are finished within 8 seconds approximately from all the CCTV footage we now have and listening to famous Chicago and NY cops...it goes down very quickly. The fact there isn't this big time delay timeout to reload, especially if ur not a cop behind a squad car, really hasn't been truthfully laid out enough. Had I not been being Aware enough when the 5 would be car jackers squaled back in to have my hand on my 7shot revo they decided to speed back off instead of hopping out...had it been a few seconds later where they would have hopped out w pistols or I was unaware I would have ran that cylinder dry right quick. I had a .380 backup but my muscle memory probably would be reloading w hks as I started to get shot If they weren't already speeding off w whomever wasn't hit critically. Honestly, I'd prob be being shot during that time with guys that were just Mostly down but not quite out of the fight yet (though I maybe would have hopefully been able to move behind my car if I wasn't hit too bad at that point to reload). All that would have transpired in just seconds. 9 rounds of .45 or 13/14 of 9mm in gun is more comforting which I covered a couple vids ago and showed why...transitions and quick time frame involved. If I do carry a revo I will carry 2 and start training to NY reload immediately. A micro9 or 45 is really more efficient for reality of 1-3 badguys Moving therefore transitions in condensed time frame of usually under 8 seconds.
Again, I shoot revolver at times in IDPA. I use the Safariland Comp III speedloaders and the Safariland 333 speedloader holster. Works really well. I can do 3.5-5 second reloads.
@@papimaximus95 way better than most and yes faster than hks....but still 5 seconds is long time someone shooting at u...draw shoot revo empty in 4-5 seconds a some transitions...then u have 3-4 more seconds of someone shooting back while they scoot off usually...while ur standing their reloading
@@DanTheWolfman "but still 5 seconds is long time someone shooting at u...then u have 3-4 more seconds of someone shooting back while they scoot off usually...while ur standing their reloading" First: I fully expect not to have time to reload DURING any civilian gunfight. Secondly: I would NOT be STANDING there reloading. Thirdly: If they are shooting while retreating, you should find cover and wait. Shooting at someone while they are shooting at you is a good way to get shot. Have a wonderful day!
I own the Zeta 'speed' loaders for my J-frame, they take 2nd place to the Safariland speed loaders. However, if you have grips mounted on your revolver that impede the smooth loading of your revolver with Safariland or even HKS type speedloaders, then the Zetas are worth looking into. It might just be your best option... But if you already own and can use Safariland speedloaders, give these a pass. They aren't going to give you any benefit.
I have a couple of the K clips for my k-frame, useful, if you can figure out a way to carry them I have been known to employ speed strips, but I consider them to be for administrative reloads Generally speaking I adhere to the advice given to Cops long years ago when revolvers were the norm You've got six (or maybe five)tries, make them count
No Civilian is ever going to have time to Reload a Revolver in a gunfight...so much better training to do a NY Reload carrying 2ndary gun (or carry a pistol w more capacity)..I've covered this in my 2 recent ASP Rebuttal vids. Having said that...I like the KPack 3 by 3 thing...u can put two to fit together then they can go in a pocket and I was briefly without a pocket pistol so I did carry a snub I borrowed w those kpacks into a couple of non permissive environments before that I felt might be targets for a mass attack event of some kind.(where there is the potential of this type of extreme outlier event that you may need to do some long range suppressive type fire to drive them off or stop their plans)
Thanks Dan, "Never" is one of those words I try to avoid when discussing issues pertaining to the defensive use of firearms. Simply drawing a second weapon might be faster, depending upon where/how it's carried. Then again, it might be slower if it requires the defensive shooter to "undress" in order to access it. As you know, training is always the key.
"No Civilian is ever going to have time to Reload a Revolver in a gunfight. Training is key. I often shoot IDPA/USPSA with a revolver and can reload my model 66 faster than pulling a second gun from not sure where.
@@papimaximus95 last time I checked hyped up for a paper comp they weren't shooting back...do you wear Gucci competition gear in public? Got video proof of a civilian reloading a revo mid gunfight??? Can a competition guy do really fast from Gucci gear? Sure but not loose speedloader in pocket compared to most guys can get a backup out and firing in 2 seconds. Hr and Harrell are about 7 seconds...me I don't carry revos and one time USPSA and one time IDPA I did for fun and any time doing under stress on video acting like I'm scotting away from fire I'm around 12 seconds. If ur at 5-6 rock on...still too damn long...and that's from gucci setup not real world
@@DanTheWolfman "last time I checked hyped up for a paper comp they weren't shooting back...do you wear Gucci competition gear in public? " Wow...you should see a doctor about that stick up your a $ $. Nothing "Gucci" about a model 66 combat magnum and factory Fobus or Galco holster. I run a simple Comp III speedloader and holder. I only run EDC gear at competitions.
I don't know what your background is but I guarantee you my department used speed loaders in fights and successfully reloaded Did I loose IQ points when I became a citizen?
Those K-Packs do seem rather slow to reload. I think I'd prefer a pair of old-style half-moon clips which would still give a flat profile in the pocket and not take any longer to reload. But, of course, not all revolvers can use them.
The standard speed loaders conceal well in a pocket. Am I anticipating a reload when carrying a J-frame? No. I just like having extra ammo, and hey, never say never. Speed loaders are with a twist knob, they work well and are reliable. As fast as slapping a mag in a gun? No. I see these as an option for folks if that is something they want to try.
Speed loaders are fine for duty use, but too awkward for everyday carry. Speedstrips' utility, is being discrete and counting out your ammo. Id use strips if I concealed a revolver, but Id probably just use them as a counter and pop them out into my hand, to load the old fashioned way.
I always carry one set of bianchi speed strips. I know other things are faster. However these fit more conveniently in the pocket. And instead of fumbling around for a loose round I pull out all five or six at one time. That’s faster. And loading two at a time 1 … 2 …3… Is faster than holding on to several rounds and loading one at a time. And if I haven’t done it in the first five or six shots I’m in trouble anyway. Old school statistics Ii don’t know what it is today but back in the 60s and 70s the statistic was that if you didn’t hit the first shot you probably weren’t going to hit any of your shots. I guess someone who is a good shooter could go into some sort of buck fever mode. So I don’t know if the reloader is that important defensively. Just my thought. Everybody be happy everyone has a right to their own opinion in things like this.
@@hrfunk I think you’re probably right. There was a book “on killing “by a psychologist from the army. The statistic was 80% in World War I 50% in World War II and 20% in Vietnam during your first encounter with the enemy would hesitate and not pull the trigger. This was not true after they had been in an encounter. Just talking about the first time. The army used a different training method to move that statistic along. I think law-enforcement have gone a long way to doing that from my days. But I think it’s a psychological thing to some extent at least for the 20% that they might be missing. The conclusion of the psychologist says that man has a natural inclination not to shoot or kill his fellow man. That is true right down to the 20% which I can’t change no matter how much training. There was an officer here in San Antonio here a couple of years ago he got called out to an incident. The bad guy needed to be met with deadly force and the officer shot and accidentally killed a good guy that it called him out there. Then two weeks later he was at a restaurant with his family and someone came in to Rob the place and he shot at the bad guy twice and missed him both times. Two missing incidents for the cop. I think it’s a psychological thing. I do not know what I would do if I ever had to shoot at some person God forbid. I know I shoot well and I’ve shot everything from Cottontail rabbits to blackbear but when it is a man? Let’s hope I never find out.
@@DrBillHaberman The gentleman you referenced is Lt. Col. David Grossman. I’ve met him on two occasions at seminars he was conducting. (He autographed my copy of On Killing) In my estimation, there is no greater authority in the field of human aggression. I used the information I gleaned from his work to modify and improve my police department’s firearms program. The results were very good.
@@hrfunk 👍 I am too pedantic. I had one of my bishops tell me one time when you get the third degree the mind goes. I don’t know what he say of me with 6 degrees including three doctorates. I guess this old man needs to stop reading and start living. So at least you know I was not blowing smoke. Thanks for your videos. I do have one complaint though… You make me want to buy mores stuff …. One question legitimate question. If we add aggression in law-enforcement do we run the risk of too quick on the trigger. Shot before we have thought. I have seen several situations in which I thought that was or might be the case. Just a question not an answer. I wonder if some of the police shootings result from being overly ready to do it. Just a thought and question I’m not taking any position here. Forgive the old philosopher.
Thank you, and I apologize for any financial distress I may have caused you (actually, I do not. Poverty, like misery, loves company!) Regarding your question about aggression in law-enforcement, I will have to ask you to excuse me for two reasons. First, I have no degrees, and I barely escaped high school with a diploma. For that reason, my forthcoming answer will be anything but academic. Second, you have broached a topic I have studied for years. As a result, my answer may be somewhat long. When discussing "human aggression" we first have to recognize that there are both positive and negative forms of aggression. Examples of negative aggression abound in our society, and they require a little in the way of definition. Conversely, positive aggression is not well understood, poorly taught, and largely discouraged. Even so, it is vital to the security and good order of a community, state, and/or country. Imagine for a moment military personnel who refuse to fight in defense of their country, or law enforcement officers who refuse to intervene during an unlawful, violent act (OK, maybe you don't have to imagine, maybe all you have to do is remember such failures). If we recognize that there are instances where aggressive acts are necessary to defend innocent people from those who would do them harm, we must also except that such aggressive acts could include the use of deadly force. However, one of Colonel Grossman's most significant findings is that as actions become more and more likely to cause the death of another, there is a psychological aversion to using such actions in all normal healthy human beings (and other species for that matter). As he discussed in "On Killing" history is replete with examples where soldiers in combat were unable to fire on the enemy due to said psychological aversion. As a result, military organizations have developed training methods that allow personnel to overcome their predisposition against the use of deadly force, and thereby accomplish their objectives. Law enforcement has gone through a similar evolution. The numbers of law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty has actually gone down over the course of the last 50 years. Some of this is, no doubt, due to medical advancements; but improved training and tactics has also palyed a role. As a law enforcement firearms instructor, I have seen firsthand the unwillingness of officers to resort to reasonable levels of force even when the circumstances clearly dictate such actions are warranted. If anything, the majority of officers tend to "under react" to dangerous circumstances. I felt obligated as a trainer to find a means to improve the way my officers responded in such situations. That was what lead me to Col. Grossman and his work. One of the various things I learned from him was requirement for training to replicate actual encounters as closely as possible. For that reason, I adopted firearms simulator training and force on force role playing exercises into our firearms regimen. These training techniques also added a judgemental aspect to our firearms training. After concluding an exercise, the officer undergoing training had to "justify" his/her actions (or lack thereof), I also made sure that during live-fire training, our targets actually looked like real human beings (with eyes looking back at the officer). Ironically, the only time I could not use such targets was during the state-required qualification course. Over time, I began to perceive a notable difference between officers who had been involved in many such training sessions, and those who had not. In the former group, not only did their skills and judgement imporve, but so to did there confidence. In essence, our training was turning the judicial use of deadly force into a reflexive conditioned response. If the "stimulus" was present, officers responded appropriately and then articulated the justification for their actions in accordance with the law and department policy. The ultimate testament to te effecacy of our training program came during an actual officer involved shooting. The officer who was involved in the shooting is one who, at one time, I would have never expected to draw his weapon and fire for any reason. On the night in question, however, he did just that. Moreover, he did so properly, legally, and reflexively. In the mandatory investigation which followed, he was quickly exonerated of any wrong doing. So all of this brings me full-circle to the comment that prompted your question. Law enforcement training has improved considerably over the years. When you see the anomalous and inflamatory report where an officer reportedly acted improperly, there is a good chance that his/her training was lacking. Poor supervision can also be a factor. In either case, it is not necessarily a case where "aggression" was the problem. More likely, the quality that was lacking is discipline.
I’ll pass. It would be too flimsy carried in an empty front pocket during Summer Carry. Having been in a defensive use scenario, with that adrenaline “dump” I lost fine dexterity and had gross manipulation in my hands only. My SW 638 is Summer only because it’s just better in 💯 tempt than my HK45c; something better than nothing.
$16.95 for two of these shipped. Not outrageously priced but I’ll pass, they’re just two pieces of plastic. I may have been convinced if it was maybe $10-$12 shipped for two.
I love my Zeta6 loaders. I use them for my K6s. I carry them in a speed loader pouch at one o’clock. They do take practice but work MUCH better than speed strips.
Good review. I've been using these for several years and they do take practice. Overall I prefer the J and K pack since I often have larger grips on my smaller revolvers, although the K clips work well with full size K frame revolvers. From personal carry, they do retain in a pocket more so than a more conventional speed loader. Even though I'm left handed, like you, I've always loaded from the right.
Good review HR. I found a great speed loader from Five Star Firearms in Zion IL. CNC machined in aluminum. Very light, high quality and sturdy. A slight twist of knob to the left releases the cartridges. They also make aluminum bench blocks. I carry two speed loaders for my Ruger LCR in 357. Works very well without fumbling a reload!
The K Pak was designed to be used to insert with the left hand only. It would need 7 holes to make it ambidextrous. You'll notice that their J Pak has 6 holes. This allows you to orient the rounds for left or right hand insertion in a j frame without twisting your hand around or having to orient you cylinder in a weird way like you do with the K Pak when trying to use your right hand when trying to insert the rounds.
You should test out the J Pak with a j frame. It lets you load 3 and 2 making it faster than a speed strip but thinner than a speed loader.
I like the concept of the staggered “speedstrips.” I’ve never through of a speedstrip as a “reload the empty cylinder all at once” solution-they’re as slow as a dump pouch. Instead, I’ve seen them as a convenient means of keeping rounds organized for a quick administrative top-off of an empty gun-two rounds, close cylinder, reassess. The J-clip would increase that capability to three rounds, but it would also require much more attention to orientation. As far as carrying speedloaders is concerned, the very best on the market are JetLoaders. Very secure, very fast. They’re no bigger than a double-stack magazine. The main problem is carrying them (no major companies make pouches), but one’s local leather or kydex resource can fix that with a custom piece.
I’m excited to try some of the SL Variant loaders. All I’ve seen has them marked as the very best. They are again available curious to see if they truly are that good.
I got some of those for my Ruger LCRx .357 Magnum. I really like them (after they're broken in)! I use the "peel away" method you demonstrated as well.
I favor HKS speed loaders and always carry two in my pocket or vest pocket when carrrying a DA revolver. I do add now and then a speed strip as well but to augment the speed loaders. Speed strips do take some training but DONT LAUGH, times when I have that MOOD, probably a full moon or something, and pack my COLT MODEL P 4.75" .45 Colt revolver or even the RUGER BLACKHAWK 4 5/8" .357 (even more rare than my Colt I load 5 and carry one or 2 speed strips to do a reload. It takes practice but is faster than single rounds.
Absolutely love the grips on that J Frame.
Thanks HR,I’ve been using the zeta 6 speed loader for about a year and I have grown to really like them. They work in my s&w j frame, my charter arms off duty and also on my ruger sp101. I still use my hks speed loaders also.
You're welcome Lance. Thanks for watching!
H.R., I've always liked the revolver and will get one in the near future but being a lefty I had many issues that needed answered as far as reloading, proper protocol so to speak, shooting stance, and using reloader's like this video shows. I have to say, I have learned a lot. Also, many of your video's are pretty concise with lots of info and you go one step further than other sites in your close-ups with accompanied info. This video answered loads of questions for me now, I just have to settle on a particular revolver to get it all going. Thank You.
You’re welcome Steve. Thanks for watching!
I could see some utility from the Jclips in the round orientation, it seems it would require a lot of fine motor skills to use the strip configuration, based on that I’d use the round ones and relegate the strips for range use.
I used kpack and hks speedloader both in IDPA once...both about the same at least 12 seconds long time. I like the kpacks done a different way
That is more or less my thinking.
@@DanTheWolfman Please clarify. In what different way would you like to see them done?
@@davidkachel I explained in a reply to Howard how I use the kpack to reload
Used them for years now. Love em. Once you get used to them they're purdy much idiot proof. LOL
A couple of weeks ago I qualified for LEOSA w/my Model 10 snub, a former service revolver, using a HKS speedloader. The process was fast & smooth.
I tried these out and you had better luck with them than I did. I did find that the cartridges came out of the J-clip in my pocket and I never did master going 5-for-5 on a reload. If I only dropped one cartridge, I'd just index on the empty chamber and be happy to have four shots. Very frustrating. On the other hand, I am pretty good with traditional speed strips that I have used since the '70s. And I reload with my right hand as HR does.
Good video, and they seem to work well, years ago in competition I tried speed loaders like everyone else and never got used to them, my loose rounds in the jacket pocket I am sure cost me time but just the way I did it.
The older but similar speedstrips were loaded in a similar tipping method. I found the older straight in line loaders easy to use and the same ones were used for 5 or 6 round cylinders. I used them for spare after the round speedloaders. Thanks for the video.
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching
The Kpack I do other orientation revo upwards and RIP Up outside of cylinder first rotate to other Outside of cylinder RIP upwards w forefinger on the spine for leverage. The full clips would sometimes hang up on grips.. the kpacks were more reliable for me to not get a really FUBAR situation
I take it you reload with your left hand?
@@hrfunk nope..always right...but stay both arms on one side of revo just like u would a regular speedloader.(I don't up and over on outside rather come up under on Inside)..do the outside of cylinder ie the side nearest ur body...use forefinger straight behind the kpack for alignment and leverage to rip up...other hand rotates cylinder to rip upwards again now 3 chambers most outward. Pretty sure that's what I did IDPA and in my vid
Thanks much for your honest review HR. I hope you don't mind if I clear up one point. The J-, and K-CLIPs, and the J-PAK are ambidextrous. Only the K-PAK slightly favors LH loading, but still work great using either hand.
Thanks for the additional info!
The J-Clip and K-Clip work pretty well. I definitely like the K-Pak though. I normally hate speed strips, but those are ones I'd be willing to carry.
Chief, These devises will have their fanboy's like most things do. I've been CCW-ing for 45 years and have pretty much tried every method and gizmo available. The problem with these are they are big, bulky and awkward to carry in a pants pocket or shirt pocket and are more practical in a jacket pocket - but of course that requires wearing a jacket in the first place!. They require constant practice (not a bad thing actually) and they do change properties when the material they are made out of ages. I carried a M60-7 for 40 years and wound up using a dump pouch on the belt when using an OWB holster. When pocket carrying in a DeSantis Nemesis I had a special pouch modified my my local Seamstress that would hold the 38 spl. cartridges and allow easy access as it was flat and easily carried in any front pocket. The methods I used also required practice on a regular basis, but I became quite fast and quite adept at a reload with them. There are many advantages of using the method I did. You can do a partial reload, your can insert the rounds more easily one by one or two by two than by using one of these devises, and you never have an excuse to not have a reloaded pouch as it is simple a, easy and comfortable to have with you all the time. I now carry a Sig P365 which made a reload even easier - LOL!!
I just ordered some, so thank you for doing this video!😊
My pleasure. Please let me know what you think of them.
It seems to be a very good effort on a product that, at this time, has not fully developed for serious use. I hope they look at your content, take your comments and make improvements. Best of luck to them for trying!
I have always been a great fan of the Safariland Comp 1 Speedloader. They are more compact than most of the others. They are spring loaded and shoot the rounds into cylinder thus loading your chambers all at once and in a hurry! Just line it up, a slight push, shut the cylinder and you are back in business not now but right now with no secondary motion of turning a knob.
Back in the land before time, I had a Safariland Speedloader Pouch that was very compact and held four of the Comp 1s. It was only slightly larger than a pouch that held only two. This was due to the compactness of the Comp 1.
Like you in my opinion, Speedstrips serve little purpose more than keeping you from having rounds loose in your pocket or pouch. Not very fast at all.
My personal opinion is that they can be a must-have for a shooter. Out on the range they are convenient to have a bunch of them to sort out your ammo and load easier than from a box, which for the forest shooter where a bench might not be available to set an ammo box on is nice, plus if you lose some clips so what? As far as for legitimate self defense or carry, i'm going with a "real" speed loader. Is that your 342 TI?
Yes it is. It’s my favorite concealment wheelie.
I am thankful for this video as I have been considering buying the KPAC. It seems more fidly then a conventional speed strip and less likely to fit in the watch pocket of my pants.
Nice review hr. These obviously are not as fast and convenient as a magazine into an auto loader but for those that employ a revolver a convenient choice over separate rounds in your pocket or a bulkier speed loader
1 benefit of the speed strip is if you change your grips to something bigger (fatter, wider, bulky) a traditional speed loader wont fit. So at least there are some options available.
I think the K-Clip & J-Clip also work well with a variety different grips.
Hello HR. No notification from TH-cam today. They must be mad at you again.
I have no experience with these loaders, but was not a fan of the speed strips. Preferred the positive retention of Safariland and HKS speed loaders. The Safariland Comp loaders we're fidgety to fill. With the cam lock they were just push in and drop to load the revolvers. Can't get much simpler than that except for moon clips.
I prefer the HKS speed loader and keep them in a pouch. Rubber speed loaders I worry about holding up over time, especially when in contact with oils and constant use.
I've experimented with leather speed strips for a single action revolver, but tend to prefer a 2x3 cartridge pouch.
I've used the Zeta 6 speedloader type (clips) since they came out, mostly when carrying a J frame in the car console. I absolutely love them. I wouldn't carry them on my person for concealed carry revolver, but then again, I won't carry any speedloader or moon clips for that purpose -- they're just too bulky. When carrying a 586 L-Comp (7 round L Frame 357), I'll carry an appropriate speed strip either in my pocket, or on my belt in a leather holder. I don't think there are really any "ideal" solutions to carrying spare ammo for a concealed revolver.
I agree the speedstrip can load two at a time but as you say you have to turn it 180 degrees for the next two. I still carry em since everything else is bulky and rather than loose rounds they at least keep all the rounds together and pointed in the right direction.... I know no big deal? Kinda tho... cause fumbling around getting rounds out one at a time and looking or going full brail to get em pointed in the right direction. One use for the strips for me is for SAA and clones... LOL... as I say... they keep 6 rounds all together and pointed in the right direction and.... you can put em in smaller pockets or shirt pockets that would not work for loose rounds. If I am going for a full cyl type speedloader.. my only option is the Safariland... the short version. not very bulky in the 5 short version
Very nice coffee cup!
Watching this, I'm thinking a deep concealed backup is in order instead of a reload under fire/stress. A LCP Max or the like, or a second revolver. I love my revolvers, but I'm 57 and have lost hand strength. I have some interesting 5 round loaders from the Charter Arms website. I think Vulcan Ballistics made them. They look like a good concept, but I've found they'll take a lot of practice to use quickly. I got them for my 1986 357 snubbie. If I have to fire all the rounds in a cylinder and the situation is not resolved, I'll pull out the backup and reload the revolver later.
Excellent review, but, I prefer HK or Safaryland speedloaders The strips loaders are better option for partial reloads and It’s important to carry on with a case for this purpose.
These might be great for range use (the strips) I might have to check them out, Thanks for the good work Sir.
My pleasure.
You have a nice revolver Marine!😊 I want one!😅
I ordered these J and K packs and to be honest, they did not replace my HKS loaders. Nothing wrong with them and I think if I practiced more, I would get used to them. I don't see that much of an advantage over a traditional speed loader except for cost.
As you said, training is always the key. Thanks for the comment.
I wonder if an iteration of that could be used in competition by having all the rounds on a chest rig allowing to move in with the revolver, without handling the ammo with the hands. If the rig is rigid and one is indexing the cylinder correctly it might be quick. Some of the safari land users have the fingers on the ammo to guide it and find the index. I wonder if that grip could be used with their loader by adding a thumb loop, allowing to hold ammo for a potential reload on the hand while using both during the first cylinder, using the fingers to guide, having the palm still on the back and ripping on a ring with the thumb.
If that works Zeta6, send me a rig.
Hmm. Maybe I’ll give it a try the next time I run a wheelie at the range.
Thanks Funky! :) Rule of thumb with J-Clips--USE YER THUMB!
Interesting review! Those look to be "disposable". I think I'll just keep using my HKS Speed loaders and their Belt Carriers.
Love that S&W Carry Comp!!!
Thanks
It strikes me that reloading any firearm under pressure has many ways to go wrong. Reloading a revolver doubly so. If you are going down the revolver route the following questions seem pertinent.
Is this speed loader easier and more reliable than a conventional speed loader?
Is it easier to carry?
Is it as hard wearing, given the need to practice? Or are they so cheap they can be regarded as disposable?
The big question for me is
If you've already fired 5 or 6 rounds and you are still in trouble, how fast does a reload need to be, to be of that much practical help?
Unfortunately, there are no statistics that I would trust regarding the frequency of reloads in a citizen involved defensive shooting. I think it’s safe to say they are rare, but I wouldn’t want to be the exception that makes the rule. When I carry a wheelie, I typically carry at least one speedloader.
Great review HR and thank you for sharing; however for me regarding the Zeta6 Speedloaders, I will stick with my HKS Speedloaders.
To add a purely civilian perspective: I'm not sure I see any real advantage to the Zeta6 J&K-clips over a traditional speedloader, with the possible exception of cost. The difference in weight is negligible in practical application, and security of the rounds in the loader is reduced. The footprint of the loaded unit on a belt or in a pocket is not substantially changed. That's not a big problem if you're an LE officer, even off duty, but in many civilian concealment applications it can become troublesome.
While I understand your distaste for the traditional Speed Strips, they DO have a place if you're carrying a revolver in a situation where absolute concealment is required, keeping the rounds flat and in line in your pocket, so that they actually conceal better than even carrying them loose. This is ideal for some civilian applications and undercover LE operations. The K-Pack looks as though it may offer a reasonable compromise between those two extremes, offering a relatively flat appearance that might conceal fairly well in the pocket of certain types of garments. (Perhaps something you could do some follow-up experimentation with?)
I’m already thinking about a follow-up video featuring a live-fire test. Stay tuned.
I did do a vid of these products and also used them in my 2nd Colt vs Smith snub showdown I did. I also used the Kpacks and hks speedloader to reload at IDPA once....both took a long long time but about the same...12 seconds usually. Ur trained up to maybe half that time and paul harrell is about 7 seconds...that's still a long time. I think Old Cop did in one of his shootouts but I belive he reloaded around corner of a building in a long range shoot n chase situation
With conventional speedloaders, a complete reloads within 6-7 seconds. I don't think these would be any slower than that. Whether or not that makes a difference would depend entirely upon the circumstances of the encounter.
@@hrfunkmy point is draw to 1st shot 1.5.... .25 splits is fast w a revo and more like .35 w a . 357...multiple transitions ok empty in 4-5 seconds from beginning....plus 7 seconds (ur trained up and that's from a speedloader pouch not pocket)...well 11-12 seconds from start until your reloaded (and I'm more like 16 seconds at that point) is very long for a gunfight and most are finished within 8 seconds approximately from all the CCTV footage we now have and listening to famous Chicago and NY cops...it goes down very quickly. The fact there isn't this big time delay timeout to reload, especially if ur not a cop behind a squad car, really hasn't been truthfully laid out enough. Had I not been being Aware enough when the 5 would be car jackers squaled back in to have my hand on my 7shot revo they decided to speed back off instead of hopping out...had it been a few seconds later where they would have hopped out w pistols or I was unaware I would have ran that cylinder dry right quick. I had a .380 backup but my muscle memory probably would be reloading w hks as I started to get shot If they weren't already speeding off w whomever wasn't hit critically. Honestly, I'd prob be being shot during that time with guys that were just Mostly down but not quite out of the fight yet (though I maybe would have hopefully been able to move behind my car if I wasn't hit too bad at that point to reload). All that would have transpired in just seconds. 9 rounds of .45 or 13/14 of 9mm in gun is more comforting which I covered a couple vids ago and showed why...transitions and quick time frame involved. If I do carry a revo I will carry 2 and start training to NY reload immediately. A micro9 or
45 is really more efficient for reality of 1-3 badguys Moving therefore transitions in condensed time frame of usually under 8 seconds.
Again, I shoot revolver at times in IDPA. I use the Safariland Comp III speedloaders and the Safariland 333 speedloader holster. Works really well. I can do 3.5-5 second reloads.
@@papimaximus95 way better than most and yes faster than hks....but still 5 seconds is long time someone shooting at u...draw shoot revo empty in 4-5 seconds a some transitions...then u have 3-4 more seconds of someone shooting back while they scoot off usually...while ur standing their reloading
@@DanTheWolfman "but still 5 seconds is long time someone shooting at u...then u have 3-4 more seconds of someone shooting back while they scoot off usually...while ur standing their reloading"
First: I fully expect not to have time to reload DURING any civilian gunfight.
Secondly: I would NOT be STANDING there reloading.
Thirdly: If they are shooting while retreating, you should find cover and wait. Shooting at someone while they are shooting at you is a good way to get shot.
Have a wonderful day!
You have to practice with speed strips. Hks loaders rarely work with the grips I use. Strips fit flat so I can carry them comfortably in my speedo.
Really? In a Speedo?
I prefer the speed strips, they carry flat in the pocket, and aren’t much slower in a reload than anything else. That’s all I use nowadays
Outstanding content, I’ll order a few of these assuming they’re inexpensive.
new camera? very crisp video quality.
Nope. Same one I've been using for a while now.
How about
NESTABILITY of the loaded
holders? It seems compact
order is the goal of
these compared to
a pocket-full of
loose ammo
I suppose. Personally, I tend to evaluate such devices based on their efficacy in a defensive scenario.
Excellent review. Semper FI.
Thanks Jim. Semper Fi!
I own the Zeta 'speed' loaders for my J-frame, they take 2nd place to the Safariland speed loaders. However, if you have grips mounted on your revolver that impede the smooth loading of your revolver with Safariland or even HKS type speedloaders, then the Zetas are worth looking into. It might just be your best option... But if you already own and can use Safariland speedloaders, give these a pass. They aren't going to give you any benefit.
I think a lot just comes down to practice and familiarity.
This video reminds me of how rusty I'm at with speedloaders...
Indexing concept
and practice would
be key for the pack
Good review, thanks.
You're welcome.. Thanks for watching!
I have a couple of the K clips for my k-frame, useful, if you can figure out a way to carry them
I have been known to employ speed strips, but I consider them to be for administrative reloads
Generally speaking I adhere to the advice given to Cops long years ago when revolvers were the norm
You've got six (or maybe five)tries, make them count
Better yet, avoid the need to use them at all.
@@hrfunk that's always best
Interesting product.
No Civilian is ever going to have time to Reload a Revolver in a gunfight...so much better training to do a NY Reload carrying 2ndary gun (or carry a pistol w more capacity)..I've covered this in my 2 recent ASP Rebuttal vids. Having said that...I like the KPack 3 by 3 thing...u can put two to fit together then they can go in a pocket and I was briefly without a pocket pistol so I did carry a snub I borrowed w those kpacks into a couple of non permissive environments before that I felt might be targets for a mass attack event of some kind.(where there is the potential of this type of extreme outlier event that you may need to do some long range suppressive type fire to drive them off or stop their plans)
Thanks Dan, "Never" is one of those words I try to avoid when discussing issues pertaining to the defensive use of firearms. Simply drawing a second weapon might be faster, depending upon where/how it's carried. Then again, it might be slower if it requires the defensive shooter to "undress" in order to access it. As you know, training is always the key.
"No Civilian is ever going to have time to Reload a Revolver in a gunfight.
Training is key. I often shoot IDPA/USPSA with a revolver and can reload my model 66 faster than pulling a second gun from not sure where.
@@papimaximus95 last time I checked hyped up for a paper comp they weren't shooting back...do you wear Gucci competition gear in public? Got video proof of a civilian reloading a revo mid gunfight??? Can a competition guy do really fast from Gucci gear? Sure but not loose speedloader in pocket compared to most guys can get a backup out and firing in 2 seconds. Hr and Harrell are about 7 seconds...me I don't carry revos and one time USPSA and one time IDPA I did for fun and any time doing under stress on video acting like I'm scotting away from fire I'm around 12 seconds. If ur at 5-6 rock on...still too damn long...and that's from gucci setup not real world
@@DanTheWolfman "last time I checked hyped up for a paper comp they weren't shooting back...do you wear Gucci competition gear in public? "
Wow...you should see a doctor about that stick up your a $ $. Nothing "Gucci" about a model 66 combat magnum and factory Fobus or Galco holster. I run a simple Comp III speedloader and holder. I only run EDC gear at competitions.
I don't know what your background is but I guarantee you my department used speed loaders in fights and successfully reloaded
Did I loose IQ points when I became a citizen?
Those K-Packs do seem rather slow to reload. I think I'd prefer a pair of old-style half-moon clips which would still give a flat profile in the pocket and not take any longer to reload. But, of course, not all revolvers can use them.
I love zeta 6 speed loaders !
Just go w/ 44mag
Since they don't make
reload strips so it must
be that the job gets done
before needing reload
There are speedloaders for a .44 Mag. They’re just not made by Zeta6.
Wasn't there one w/
a jointed section or 2
so you could carry em
flat then bend it for
getting 3-4 inserted?
If so, I am not familiar with it
They look to be better than nothing , but that’s just my opinion , I see you’ve went back to the polymer grip on the model 19
For now. That can always change again.
The standard speed loaders conceal well in a pocket. Am I anticipating a reload when carrying a J-frame? No. I just like having extra ammo, and hey, never say never. Speed loaders are with a twist knob, they work well and are reliable. As fast as slapping a mag in a gun? No. I see these as an option for folks if that is something they want to try.
Did he say I’m gonna make this a quick video ?
You should see a long one!
I NeeD a Speedloader For My S&W 500 Mag Do They Make Them In The Traditional Metal Style if Not This Style might Work If They Make Them HrFunk 😀❤️
I'd like to see these for all calibers, but if you can't get the job done with five rounds of 500 S&W, you probably need tactical nukes!
I don’t think they make them quite that big Chris.
@@davidkachel If You Had 6-7 Assailants You Might Have To Line Up a Few So You Can Get a Couple 2Fir’s 😳😳😬😂
Speed loaders are fine for duty use, but too awkward for everyday carry. Speedstrips' utility, is being discrete and counting out your ammo. Id use strips if I concealed a revolver, but Id probably just use them as a counter and pop them out into my hand, to load the old fashioned way.
That would likely result in a time consuming reload.
I always carry one set of bianchi speed strips. I know other things are faster. However these fit more conveniently in the pocket. And instead of fumbling around for a loose round I pull out all five or six at one time. That’s faster. And loading two at a time 1 … 2 …3…
Is faster than holding on to several rounds and loading one at a time. And if I haven’t done it in the first five or six shots I’m in trouble anyway. Old school statistics Ii don’t know what it is today but back in the 60s and 70s the statistic was that if you didn’t hit the first shot you probably weren’t going to hit any of your shots. I guess someone who is a good shooter could go into some sort of buck fever mode. So I don’t know if the reloader is that important defensively. Just my thought. Everybody be happy everyone has a right to their own opinion in things like this.
I like to think the level of training (and thereby competence) has improved since those days.
@@hrfunk I think you’re probably right. There was a book “on killing “by a psychologist from the army. The statistic was 80% in World War I 50% in World War II and 20% in Vietnam during your first encounter with the enemy would hesitate and not pull the trigger. This was not true after they had been in an encounter. Just talking about the first time. The army used a different training method to move that statistic along. I think law-enforcement have gone a long way to doing that from my days. But I think it’s a psychological thing to some extent at least for the 20% that they might be missing. The conclusion of the psychologist says that man has a natural inclination not to shoot or kill his fellow man. That is true right down to the 20% which I can’t change no matter how much training. There was an officer here in San Antonio here a couple of years ago he got called out to an incident. The bad guy needed to be met with deadly force and the officer shot and accidentally killed a good guy that it called him out there. Then two weeks later he was at a restaurant with his family and someone came in to Rob the place and he shot at the bad guy twice and missed him both times. Two missing incidents for the cop. I think it’s a psychological thing. I do not know what I would do if I ever had to shoot at some person God forbid. I know I shoot well and I’ve shot everything from Cottontail rabbits to blackbear but when it is a man? Let’s hope I never find out.
@@DrBillHaberman The gentleman you referenced is Lt. Col. David Grossman. I’ve met him on two occasions at seminars he was conducting. (He autographed my copy of On Killing) In my estimation, there is no greater authority in the field of human aggression. I used the information I gleaned from his work to modify and improve my police department’s firearms program. The results were very good.
@@hrfunk 👍 I am too pedantic. I had one of my bishops tell me one time when you get the third degree the mind goes. I don’t know what he say of me with 6 degrees including three doctorates. I guess this old man needs to stop reading and start living. So at least you know I was not blowing smoke. Thanks for your videos. I do have one complaint though… You make me want to buy mores stuff ….
One question legitimate question. If we add aggression in law-enforcement do we run the risk of too quick on the trigger. Shot before we have thought. I have seen several situations in which I thought that was or might be the case. Just a question not an answer. I wonder if some of the police shootings result from being overly ready to do it. Just a thought and question I’m not taking any position here. Forgive the old philosopher.
Thank you, and I apologize for any financial distress I may have caused you (actually, I do not. Poverty, like misery, loves company!) Regarding your question about aggression in law-enforcement, I will have to ask you to excuse me for two reasons. First, I have no degrees, and I barely escaped high school with a diploma. For that reason, my forthcoming answer will be anything but academic. Second, you have broached a topic I have studied for years. As a result, my answer may be somewhat long.
When discussing "human aggression" we first have to recognize that there are both positive and negative forms of aggression. Examples of negative aggression abound in our society, and they require a little in the way of definition. Conversely, positive aggression is not well understood, poorly taught, and largely discouraged. Even so, it is vital to the security and good order of a community, state, and/or country. Imagine for a moment military personnel who refuse to fight in defense of their country, or law enforcement officers who refuse to intervene during an unlawful, violent act (OK, maybe you don't have to imagine, maybe all you have to do is remember such failures).
If we recognize that there are instances where aggressive acts are necessary to defend innocent people from those who would do them harm, we must also except that such aggressive acts could include the use of deadly force. However, one of Colonel Grossman's most significant findings is that as actions become more and more likely to cause the death of another, there is a psychological aversion to using such actions in all normal healthy human beings (and other species for that matter). As he discussed in "On Killing" history is replete with examples where soldiers in combat were unable to fire on the enemy due to said psychological aversion. As a result, military organizations have developed training methods that allow personnel to overcome their predisposition against the use of deadly force, and thereby accomplish their objectives.
Law enforcement has gone through a similar evolution. The numbers of law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty has actually gone down over the course of the last 50 years. Some of this is, no doubt, due to medical advancements; but improved training and tactics has also palyed a role. As a law enforcement firearms instructor, I have seen firsthand the unwillingness of officers to resort to reasonable levels of force even when the circumstances clearly dictate such actions are warranted. If anything, the majority of officers tend to "under react" to dangerous circumstances. I felt obligated as a trainer to find a means to improve the way my officers responded in such situations. That was what lead me to Col. Grossman and his work. One of the various things I learned from him was requirement for training to replicate actual encounters as closely as possible. For that reason, I adopted firearms simulator training and force on force role playing exercises into our firearms regimen. These training techniques also added a judgemental aspect to our firearms training. After concluding an exercise, the officer undergoing training had to "justify" his/her actions (or lack thereof), I also made sure that during live-fire training, our targets actually looked like real human beings (with eyes looking back at the officer). Ironically, the only time I could not use such targets was during the state-required qualification course.
Over time, I began to perceive a notable difference between officers who had been involved in many such training sessions, and those who had not. In the former group, not only did their skills and judgement imporve, but so to did there confidence. In essence, our training was turning the judicial use of deadly force into a reflexive conditioned response. If the "stimulus" was present, officers responded appropriately and then articulated the justification for their actions in accordance with the law and department policy. The ultimate testament to te effecacy of our training program came during an actual officer involved shooting. The officer who was involved in the shooting is one who, at one time, I would have never expected to draw his weapon and fire for any reason. On the night in question, however, he did just that. Moreover, he did so properly, legally, and reflexively. In the mandatory investigation which followed, he was quickly exonerated of any wrong doing.
So all of this brings me full-circle to the comment that prompted your question. Law enforcement training has improved considerably over the years. When you see the anomalous and inflamatory report where an officer reportedly acted improperly, there is a good chance that his/her training was lacking. Poor supervision can also be a factor. In either case, it is not necessarily a case where "aggression" was the problem. More likely, the quality that was lacking is discipline.
do you know of a speed loader that fits an HR 732 revolver
Sorry, I do not.
I’ll pass. It would be too flimsy carried in an empty front pocket during Summer Carry. Having been in a defensive use scenario, with that adrenaline “dump”
I lost fine dexterity and had gross manipulation in my hands only. My SW 638 is Summer only because it’s just better in 💯 tempt than my HK45c; something better than nothing.
Don't see it being better than a Safariland loader. Just push and drop.
It they seem to be a little more forgiving when it comes to inserting the cartridges into the chambers. Maybe that’s just a perception on my part.
Oh, and you've got some NICE wheelguns, and I mean that in a non -racist, non-sexist, Human Resources-friendly kinda way.
Thank you!
$16.95 for two of these shipped. Not outrageously priced but I’ll pass, they’re just two pieces of plastic. I may have been convinced if it was maybe $10-$12 shipped for two.
Unfortunately, shipping costs are probably not going to decrease.
I have the K-Pak for my Taurus 685. So, I can carry 30rds of .38+p and no one can tell.
You must have very large pockets.
@@hrfunk sorry, the strips.
👍
Simply Put Them In A
Speed Loader Pouch
On Ur Belt & Not In Ur
Pocket, Problem Solved...
Do you wear speedloader pouches under your street clothes?
I just threw the 2 I had away, what a waste.
What did you dislike about them?
Looks like junk to me
No, I don't think they're junk. I do like the clips better than the packs.