You three come together to make a uniquely wonderful atmosphere. The tone, points, logical flow-all wonderful. The point that Mr. Vervaeke made that Plato meant for us to learn math “on the way to study forms,” versus to replace and be forms, was really great. It was also a good point that math has become so appealing to us because math is causal in computers, so that makes us feel like math could be “causal” regarding our greater world. Thus, we search for mathematical formulations, thinking we’ll find causal explanations. Johannes, the point that a violin without tension in the strings makes no music-that was really beautiful. And Daniel, I think you are correct that debates between Atheists and Theists usually just intensifies the feeling of a crisis. We already have enough of that feeling…I also think it’s true that scientists compare the worst of religion with the best of science, while believers tend to compare the worst of science with the best of religion. Perfectly well put. Looking forward to the next talk!
Huge insights made here. Absolutely massive insights for me. I finally understand what you mean by Eidos and the Eidetic induction. It's what happens when I look at a painting on acid, or when I listen to music. I experience a melody of aspects. It's like a dance, between my eyes and the object. Now a lot more of what you are saying is resonating, ahhhhhhhh sweet RESONANCE
Good stuff as usual. I liked how John brought up math and how it can mask realities. Good point. Stay tuned though because there's so much delicious math rushing back into reality. Math is effected by its surrounding culture.
I loved this conversation. Though, John's comment at the end, saying fundamentalism and science always look at each others worst, made me wonder if not similar could be happening here. I do not mean to underplay the meaning crises. Rather, I wonder if one cannot find the best in the things that worsen the meaning crises, any answer will simply multiply the problems by factionalizing the answers, rather than result in peace, joy, and unity. Perhaps an analysis of the beauty and strengths of the most base and reductionist methods is worthwhile (like John mentioned in a meditation lecture he had, to try to love that which you hate most). Like I said, I loved this conversation and look forward to more.
Yeah, I like this point. How can we transcend the dichotomy... Though, would a conversation between a nihilist and an existentialist be fruitless? I'm not so sure...
@@Andrew.baltazar optimistic nihilism? {from the little i know about both perspectives, that philosophy seems to combine the 'no ultimate universal meaning' and 'it all comes down to free personal choices'}
Math seems like an affirmation of symbiosis as form making, by not sequestering energy of the gradient availability the same way a group of people might go wrong in being too efficient and careless, and returning to the individual observing and the power of that. Representational as part efficiency, part gaming thru a system of permissions and scapegoats which is a linear but limited progression. Conformity as expansion and contraction thru self moving without permissions and scapegoats, but how? I think knowledge is both representational and conformal so is built in a linear fashion by individuals and also expands and contracts as a more statistical truth. This collective truth comes from an initial affordance of more food and more time by the adoption of an improper symbiosis and of course the ability to enter into such as the key universally. The separation from the environment is the knowledge pool and that has to be reintegrated by showing why to withdraw from grass (corn, wheat, sugar cane and rice) as a staple collectively, while retaining the culture - and knowledge pool - this time. On a personal level, if the nose is a direct apprehension of symbiotic form thru molecular truth (unlike a representational hearing or the visual where the green of the plant is the excess of the form, shape is ambiguous and movement relative) and this is affected - stuffed up in most people - then it affects all the human in a profound way in this separation. Then a general constipation of the human GI tract does the same for mood, it's uncomfortable. When the symbol becomes a staple it gains another power. Groups are efficient at production, permissions are given, culture has power and scapegoats are the snakes in the snakes and ladders game in that limited space. In the true form of that symbiosis of grass, herd and pack each member is kept healthy and vital and when humans intrude this becomes the dark triad in the knowledge pool, all the negative traits unchecked and migrated to culture as self suffocating vigor of grass, consumerism as a safe but dull place for the cow not being chased or chasing the grass which has great power yet self suffocates (scapegoat is civilization) and the lazy dogs cut off from the pack as predatory business substitution. Thanks for the show.
Many thanks for sharing with us
John is spitting fire, preaching the way ... continual self-transcendence is the way ... keep on keeping on gentlemen !! Peace
This was a gem ❤
You three come together to make a uniquely wonderful atmosphere. The tone, points, logical flow-all wonderful. The point that Mr. Vervaeke made that Plato meant for us to learn math “on the way to study forms,” versus to replace and be forms, was really great. It was also a good point that math has become so appealing to us because math is causal in computers, so that makes us feel like math could be “causal” regarding our greater world. Thus, we search for mathematical formulations, thinking we’ll find causal explanations.
Johannes, the point that a violin without tension in the strings makes no music-that was really beautiful. And Daniel, I think you are correct that debates between Atheists and Theists usually just intensifies the feeling of a crisis. We already have enough of that feeling…I also think it’s true that scientists compare the worst of religion with the best of science, while believers tend to compare the worst of science with the best of religion. Perfectly well put.
Looking forward to the next talk!
Huge insights made here. Absolutely massive insights for me. I finally understand what you mean by Eidos and the Eidetic induction. It's what happens when I look at a painting on acid, or when I listen to music. I experience a melody of aspects. It's like a dance, between my eyes and the object. Now a lot more of what you are saying is resonating, ahhhhhhhh sweet RESONANCE
Thanks Daniel, John and Johannes!
Thank you for listening!
22:00 The phrase "formal system turned inside out" comes to my mind.
This conversation was brilliant. Thank you all ❤️
1:08 :00 I love Lewis’s expression, “further up and further in…”
Beautiful dialogue- thank you all!
Beautiful. I loved this video. thank you.
ooh, impressive ... I recently became familiar with John's philosophy, nice. ... in fact i need to revisit my notes on that (-:
Good stuff as usual. I liked how John brought up math and how it can mask realities. Good point. Stay tuned though because there's so much delicious math rushing back into reality. Math is effected by its surrounding culture.
I'm excited for this one.
I loved this conversation. Though, John's comment at the end, saying fundamentalism and science always look at each others worst, made me wonder if not similar could be happening here. I do not mean to underplay the meaning crises. Rather, I wonder if one cannot find the best in the things that worsen the meaning crises, any answer will simply multiply the problems by factionalizing the answers, rather than result in peace, joy, and unity. Perhaps an analysis of the beauty and strengths of the most base and reductionist methods is worthwhile (like John mentioned in a meditation lecture he had, to try to love that which you hate most). Like I said, I loved this conversation and look forward to more.
Yeah, I like this point. How can we transcend the dichotomy... Though, would a conversation between a nihilist and an existentialist be fruitless? I'm not so sure...
Heidegger has thought and said all this, and much more, but more thoroughly and better, and without metaphysics.
@@Andrew.baltazar optimistic nihilism? {from the little i know about both perspectives, that philosophy seems to combine the 'no ultimate universal meaning' and 'it all comes down to free personal choices'}
Thanks, guys.
👍
Math seems like an affirmation of symbiosis as form making, by not sequestering energy of the gradient availability the same way a group of people might go wrong in being too efficient and careless, and returning to the individual observing and the power of that. Representational as part efficiency, part gaming thru a system of permissions and scapegoats which is a linear but limited progression. Conformity as expansion and contraction thru self moving without permissions and scapegoats, but how?
I think knowledge is both representational and conformal so is built in a linear fashion by individuals and also expands and contracts as a more statistical truth. This collective truth comes from an initial affordance of more food and more time by the adoption of an improper symbiosis and of course the ability to enter into such as the key universally. The separation from the environment is the knowledge pool and that has to be reintegrated by showing why to withdraw from grass (corn, wheat, sugar cane and rice) as a staple collectively, while retaining the culture - and knowledge pool - this time. On a personal level, if the nose is a direct apprehension of symbiotic form thru molecular truth (unlike a representational hearing or the visual where the green of the plant is the excess of the form, shape is ambiguous and movement relative) and this is affected - stuffed up in most people - then it affects all the human in a profound way in this separation. Then a general constipation of the human GI tract does the same for mood, it's uncomfortable. When the symbol becomes a staple it gains another power. Groups are efficient at production, permissions are given, culture has power and scapegoats are the snakes in the snakes and ladders game in that limited space.
In the true form of that symbiosis of grass, herd and pack each member is kept healthy and vital and when humans intrude this becomes the dark triad in the knowledge pool, all the negative traits unchecked and migrated to culture as self suffocating vigor of grass, consumerism as a safe but dull place for the cow not being chased or chasing the grass which has great power yet self suffocates (scapegoat is civilization) and the lazy dogs cut off from the pack as predatory business substitution.
Thanks for the show.