A Brief History of Buses [Byte Size] | Nostalgia Nerd

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ค. 2024
  • Expansion Buses that is. PC Expansion buses go back a long way, before they were even called a "BUS", when they were still known as an "Omnibus". From there various incarnations have been bestowed upon us with varying success and speeds. From 8 bit ISA, 16 BIT, EISA, Vesa, various other local buses, AGP and PCI, it's been a rollercoaster of Bus activity. In this video I look back at the Altair machine, along with IBM PC Compatibles, including Compaq's attempts to corner the "bus scene" with their 286 and 386 deskpro lines, and what IBM did in response with their PS/1 and PS/2 MCA architecture. Let's explore this crazy and curious world of expansion cards, bits, buses, clock speeds, data paths and failed attempts of unification.
    ☟Sharing☟
    If you wish to share this video in forums, social media, on your website, *please do so*! It helps tremendously with the channel!
    ☟Subcribe☟
    th-cam.com/users/nostalgi...
    ✊Support Me! ✊
    *Please consider supporting the channel on Patreon*: www.patreon.com/nostalgianerd...
    Visit my eBay Shop: ebay.to/1QQpYyy
    Buy From Amazon (Amazon give a small commission to my affiliate account): amzn.to/1OzCQWR
    ★Join me on Social Media★
    Twitter: / nostalnerd
    Face: / nostalnerd
    Instagram: / nostalgianerd
    Web: www.nostalgianerd.com
    ★Equipment★
    Lumix G6 with Vario 14-42mm Lens
    Nikon D3200 with 40mm Macro
    Corel Video Studio Ultimate X7
    Corel Paint Shop Pro X6
    Blue Snowball Microphone
    ♜Resources♜
    BG Music is Lunarain by SnowKitten, available to buy at snowkitten.bandcamp.com/album...
    Some CC TH-cam videos were used for clips throughout this video;
    • Video
    • Soldering under a Micr... (Soldering under a microscope)
    • IBM PC 30th Birthday Song (IBM PC Happy Birthday clip)
    Non self sourced images sourced from Wikimedia/Wikipedia

ความคิดเห็น • 209

  • @Rfc1394
    @Rfc1394 7 ปีที่แล้ว +48

    IBM's Micro Channel failed because they wanted big royalties from device manufacturers who might have designed devices that could work with it. The standard ISA bus was royalty-free

  • @procactus9109
    @procactus9109 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    VESA in a 486 using a Diamond Viper was a game changer for me. It basically doubled the computers speed and gave me true 24-bit for the first time.

  • @RonJohn63
    @RonJohn63 7 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    6:02 The EISA bus was *very* popular in server PCs (tower and rackmount) and even DEC Alpha superminis.

  • @CalcProgrammer1
    @CalcProgrammer1 7 ปีที่แล้ว +45

    So, the year is 2017. AMD releases Ryzen. I buy an ASUS motherboard. It has Aura lighting, and I am a Linux user, so it's reverse engineering time. I along with some other users on GitHub discovered the Aura chipset is an ISA device. It's probably actually on LPC, but LPC is software compatible with ISA. It's still in use today in pretty much every new computer. Your super IO chip is also on LPC, and it handles PS/2 keyboard/mouse, hardware serial, voltage/temp/fan sensors, and sometimes more. So ISA isn't as obsolete as you think, its legacy lives on.

    • @dayotobiusa
      @dayotobiusa 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Nice find! I remember watching/reading somewhere that the TPM interface/chipset also uses parts of LPC/ISA, so you could technically rig an ISA interface to those pins

    • @CalcProgrammer1
      @CalcProgrammer1 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@dayotobiusa Lol, this old comment wasn't entirely true. Turns out the Aura chip was on SMBus (a variant of i2c) but app access on Windows was done by writing directly to the SMBus controller in the chipset and/or SuperIO. Still using a variant of ISA but one additional step of separation.

    • @dayotobiusa
      @dayotobiusa 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@CalcProgrammer1 Ah damn... oh well, no worries. I found the video about TPM->ISA, it's by "TheRasteri" (Adding ISA to a modern motherboard) if you want to check it out (it's not as simple as I might have portrayed)

  • @MrGencyExit64
    @MrGencyExit64 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The other reason people didn't mess around inside a Mac Classic was that glass high-voltage deathtrap. Yeah, I realize touching the wrong part of a CRT won't kill you, but it will ruin your day for sure :)

    • @1pcfred
      @1pcfred 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      A CRT acts like a capacitor.

  • @EwanMarshall
    @EwanMarshall 8 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    I would add that technically on modern Intel X99 systems there are actually 2 separate pci-express buses on the motherboard. One connected directly to the CPU for x16 GPUs and one connected to the X99 chipset for other slower PCE-Express stuff. So for those putting together X99 based systems, should read their motherboard manuals to make sure the right slots are used to put the cards on the right bus (especially as the slots on the board can actually be switched between them in some way).

  • @d2factotum
    @d2factotum 7 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Technically AGP was never referred to as a "bus", because you could only ever have one device on it--there was no such thing as a computer with multiple AGP sockets, because the specification didn't allow for it.

    • @Baerchenization
      @Baerchenization 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      And USB is also not a bus, despite the name...

    • @CalcProgrammer1
      @CalcProgrammer1 7 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      USB at the logical level is, but not at the physical layer. USB has one host controller with multiple clients, each individually addressed. In that way, it is a bus. It's not a bus at the electrical layer since you need hubs to multiplex the signal rather than tying devices onto the same physical wire. Same goes for Ethernet, though it has provisions to work as a true physical bus, using switches improves throughput a ton.

    • @jeffdriscoll9024
      @jeffdriscoll9024 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I was going to comment on that but you beat me to it. It was the "AGP port".

  • @harshbarj
    @harshbarj 8 ปีที่แล้ว +66

    You mention the Altair 8800 and never mention the bus it used. (The S-100 for those interested).

    • @Kylehudgins
      @Kylehudgins 8 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      nice profile picture

    • @BertGrink
      @BertGrink 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      And in turn, the S-100 bus made it possible to write portable Operating Systems, such as CP/M. Thanks to the combination of CP/M and S-100, it suddenly became MUCH easier both to manufacture and to own a computer, and the rest is, as they say, histroy.

    • @WAQWBrentwood
      @WAQWBrentwood 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      harshbarj Originally it was just called the Altair bus, (1974) The S-100 name came about around 1976, as obviously Altair clone makers didn't want to use the competition's name. Like saying ISA bus rather than IBM Bus. I have no idea what the "S" stands for but the "100" simply refers to the number of connectors. (MITS simply used off the shelf mil surp edge connectors)! The S-100 was the first "industry standard" pc bus, So maybe the original IBM-PC Bus should be called ISA 2, 😜

    • @AntneeUK
      @AntneeUK 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      He mentioned the "Altar" 😁 There are much bigger problems in the world than differences in pronunciation, but OMG that annoyed me! "alt AIR", like an AIRplane

    • @absalomdraconis
      @absalomdraconis 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@WAQWBrentwood : I _think_ the "S" in S-100 stands for "Standard".

  • @dorfschmidt4833
    @dorfschmidt4833 8 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I still remember my Vesa Local Bus build.

  • @ELSTERLING
    @ELSTERLING 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    IIRC there was also PCI-X which was an enhanced 64bit and significantly faster version of PCI that had a very brief life before getting steamrolled by the superior PCI-Express standard.

  • @devjock
    @devjock 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    This reminds me of the good old A20 gate. Truly the glory days of XBox hacking. I can still remember that defcon conference vividly.
    I'm enjoying these byte size video's very much. THey give me that warm fuzzy feeling that it's good to be a child of the 80's.
    Also, I very much appreciate the background music choice in this video. Synthwave is truly the master of blending into every format possible!

  • @combatking0
    @combatking0 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    My favourite bus is the Wright Eclipse 2 Double Decker. [tumbleweeds] I'll get my coat...

  • @GameInterest
    @GameInterest 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Your videos are amazingly straight to the point. Everytime I go to minimize it thinking "I know this", I hear something I wasn't aware of and I maximize it back.

  • @goddessesstartrekonlinefle3061
    @goddessesstartrekonlinefle3061 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great presentation, love these Byte Size. I already knew the information, but really enjoy listening to it being explained simply and well :)

  • @snowmyr
    @snowmyr 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Very underrated channel. Awesome video

  • @SaccoBelmonte
    @SaccoBelmonte 7 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    Buses....a history of driver frustration, until PCI express came along.

    • @DolganoFF
      @DolganoFF 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I see what you've done here

  • @RyanDanielG
    @RyanDanielG 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    These are your most interesting videos. Great job!

  • @pcuser80
    @pcuser80 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    @ 5:15 shown is a 386SX which had a 16 bit databus...
    8088(8 bit databus) > 8086(16 bit databus)
    80386SX(16 bit databus) > 80386(32 bit databus)

  • @Shadethewolfy
    @Shadethewolfy 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love your voice so much... I actually fell asleep to it last night >.> I love this series also. It's very informative!

  • @dave4shmups
    @dave4shmups 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fascinating stuff! Great job!

  • @kd1s
    @kd1s 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Which is why I always avoided the Mac line early on. You couldn't expand them like you could say a TRS-80 or an IBM-PC clone.

  • @thelovertunisia
    @thelovertunisia 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Highly informative. Thank you.

  • @wisteela
    @wisteela 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent
    I've never heard of any compatibility issues with VESA LB

  • @Sinn0100
    @Sinn0100 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I absolutely love X86! Since its inception in 1978 it moved the bar for both home and business user. We still use this architecture today...16-bit through 32-bit and 64-bit so far. Both the Xbox Series X and PS5 are built off of the X86 architecture.

  • @thecount25
    @thecount25 8 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Loved it. I would like more technical details however.

  • @samtime2711
    @samtime2711 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Sounds like Macs really have not changed in being a pain to work with.

    • @scythal
      @scythal 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Courtesy of Steve Jobs!

  • @kaneCVR
    @kaneCVR 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    the VLB bus was actually quite popular. It was uses starting from the late 80's up to 1996. Originally designed for the 486, it made it's way to some pentium machines as well. Quite a few socket 4 boards had at least one VLB slot (sans the original intel ones - witch makes sense since intel was trying to push PCI) and even some socket 5 motherboards had VLB slots. VLB can also be found on 90's budget 386 and 386/486 combo motherboards - the bus works fine with a 386 CPU as well, and will happily run at CPU speed.
    The problem with VLB is people didn't know how to set it up properly. Most cards were designed to run at 25 or 33MHz, but 486 chips were getting faster and faster. On a 50MHz DX, you had to set the VL bus to run at 25MHz via jumper, since most cards would not run at 50MHz. Some would have trouble running at 40MHz, a FSB speed witch chips like the DX-40 and DX2-80 used. If you had this set up correctly, any VLB card could run on ANY MACHINE. The bus was mostly used for video cards, fast network cards and IDE/SATA controllers. I/O cards and sound cards stuck to ISA.

  • @ez45
    @ez45 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    PCIe is not based on the basic PCI technology, as that was still a parallel connector. So PCIe being a serial bus does, in fact, communicate with the CPU "1 bit at a time".

  • @matthewday7565
    @matthewday7565 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    VLB was fairly compatible, but directly coupling to the CPU speed led to problems.
    At the lowest common speed, of 25MHz or DX2-50, it could drive 3 slots with good timings.
    Moving to 33MHz / DX2-66, it could drive two - commonly a VLB IDE controller added to the VLB graphics
    Hit 40MHz, and the card selection narrows, you probably had to set a wait state jumper and you'd probably be restricted to one card
    50MHz (and especially a DX4 at 2x50) - if you could find a graphics card that could hold up at this speed, you were looking at stellar performance.
    The basic problem with VLB was that it was quite finicky, so PCI began to appear on 486 motherboards... some even had both.

    • @SomePotato
      @SomePotato 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Small correction, there was no DX4 with a 50 MHz FSB. The DX4-100 ran at 3x33 MHz. The 486 causing problems was the regular DX-50, afaik the only 468 running a 50 MHz FSB, which therefore was replaced by the DX2-50 later on (2x25 MHz).

  • @lostinadream1866
    @lostinadream1866 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love your videos!!!

  • @dusterl1472
    @dusterl1472 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Hmm... Apple was hard to expand you say?
    Some things never change...

    • @NicolaiCzempin
      @NicolaiCzempin 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Have you seen an Apple II?

    • @xluumu
      @xluumu 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Apple has made plenty of very easily expandable computers, but Steve Jobs was always against expandability.

  • @nuketowncity
    @nuketowncity 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video pal

  • @blakespot
    @blakespot 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love it. That's my AT&T at 3:58 btw. :-)

  • @kuehneniggle
    @kuehneniggle 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    As a graduate of UoB, i was pleased to see the Bright Orange...

  • @silicongraphics
    @silicongraphics 7 ปีที่แล้ว +43

    You forgot PCI-X (64 bit pic)

    • @silicongraphics
      @silicongraphics 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      pci not pic

    • @rchandraonline
      @rchandraonline 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Well, yes...but it was an extension to PCI like VESALB was an extension to ISA, and VLB was mentioned. The only thing I don't know is if a VLB board could plug into an ISA slot and still function degraded, like if most PCI-X cards are plugged into PCI, or if the VLB card will refuse to work at all.

    • @rchandraonline
      @rchandraonline 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes. I can specifically tell you that at least at one time there were Intel 4 port PCI-X NICs put in PCI-only Cisco Local Directors. I extracted two of them from where I once worked from units which were just going to be recycled.

    • @Zizzily
      @Zizzily 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      PCI-X never really showed up in consumer hardware; it was mostly in servers and some high-end workstations.

    • @cpufreak101
      @cpufreak101 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      So THATS what that weird looking PCI slot was on my old PC
      EDIT: nevermind, still not it, looks different

  • @eddiehimself
    @eddiehimself 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    The thing about AGP is it wasn't actually a "bus" in the strictest sense because you could only have one device on it, that being the graphics card. As well as better performance, PCI Express also allowed for multiple slots, thus giving rise to multi-GPU computers.

  • @VoidHalo
    @VoidHalo 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've been learning about computer architecture lately and am currently learning how registers and devices communicate via buses. Very fun stuff. I'm hoping one day to make a full breadboard style computer from logic chips.

  • @MrWolfTickets
    @MrWolfTickets 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    1:44- you have an IBM portable personal computer?? (far right) that's awesome, I've still got the one my dad got in 1985. it's got some bad ram, though.

  • @NeilRoy
    @NeilRoy 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good video. Busses are the main bottleneck in computers. The way programmers speed up things like 3D games is by limiting the amount of 3D data that is sent to the video card. You can use some complex math and the whole nine yards to determine which bits of 3d data the player wont see, and so you don't need to send it to the video card. Video cards are more than capable of handling tons of 3D data, but it is the process of sending it from memory, across the bus to the video card that is the slowest! If they ever come up with better, much faster bus, computer speeds will increase quite a bit.

  • @DAVIDGREGORYKERR
    @DAVIDGREGORYKERR 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The AMD APU A10-7800k uses a 128bit internal bus and a 64bit external bus although there is an other bus to connect to other AMD designed Graphics cards.

  • @ronch550
    @ronch550 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    And now pretty much every vital component of a computer fits inside an SoC. Savage.

  • @Dhalin
    @Dhalin 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    @6:07 : .... to get other manufacturers to get *on board* . LOL. I see what you did there.

  • @GothAlice
    @GothAlice 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Other interesting points missed: standardization efforts. Intel and Microsoft with Plug'n'Play, IBM with PowerPC and OpenFirmware, eventually leading to uEFI, all to standardize expansion card configuration and bootstrapping. (Alternatives to "monolithic BIOSes" that needed to know everything about everything.)

  • @copperhamster
    @copperhamster 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It wasn't very common, mainly used in servers, but you missed 'PCI-x' or PCI eXtended.

  • @Oli1974
    @Oli1974 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    You forgot to mention at least NUBUS, and Zorro (2 & 3), which has been the first truly autoconfig bus, back in 1986.

  • @mipmipmipmipmip
    @mipmipmipmipmip 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    thank god for pci and everything that came after that.

  • @leocomerford
    @leocomerford 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    2:12 The Altair wasn't the first commercially-available microcomputer, though it may have been the first one to be a big hit. The SCELBI en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCELBI , Micral N en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micral and MCM/70 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCM/70 were all released before it.

  • @MadsonOnTheWeb
    @MadsonOnTheWeb 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    This series needs a Giga Size reinvention

  • @YourIdeologyIsDelusional
    @YourIdeologyIsDelusional 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nothing about NuBus or the Processor Direct Slot on Macs? NuBus was PCI before we had PCI, and it was completely standard on all Macs after its adoption.

  • @ezydenias8505
    @ezydenias8505 7 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Isn't it funny how PCI is Parallel but PCIe is Serriel?

    • @CalcProgrammer1
      @CalcProgrammer1 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      PCIe can be either. PCIe lanes are serial, but you can run multiple lanes in parallel to increase data rates. Your PCIe video cards will use up to 16 lanes in parallel (PCIe x16) though can run at reduced speeds on 8 lanes, 4 lanes, or even 1 lane.

    • @ezydenias8505
      @ezydenias8505 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Well for all I know PCIe 3.0 even high end cards run nearly on fulkl speed at 4x mode.
      But if the lanes itself are, wait what are you talking about doesn't parallel always need several lanes? And is each lane of course always seriel. Also if you say parallel wouldn't that mean that each lane has to synchronize with all the others while in seriell they would not have to do that.
      So what you said is not really what is meant by paralell and seriell since every data transimision over a single line is seriell. So in that sense every card is a seriel card. But what is actually meant is the need of synchronization betwen each lane.
      So please give me the source where you found that PCIe has two modes because your explanation isn't valuable.

    • @circuitsandshortcuts
      @circuitsandshortcuts 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      PCIe is always serial. On a PCIe-x4 or x16 slot, the bus transfers 4 or 16 individual 64-byte packets on each separate serial line, and it's up to the hardware on the chip to reassemble them to however they need to be used.

    • @rashidisw
      @rashidisw 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      PCIe x1 will always be serial.
      However PCIe x#, where # is > 1 can be seen as #s of independently serial datapath.
      If 'parallel-icity' are required then its the expansion board's circuits' duty to ensures synchronization for each serial datapath used.

    • @lawrencedoliveiro9104
      @lawrencedoliveiro9104 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      In the early days, it was thought that parallel interfaces would always be faster than serial. But as the speed was cranked up, it became harder and harder to synchronize the arrival of all those bits at the other end in sync (“clock skew”). At this point it was realized that if you gave up and went completely serial, you could raise the clock speed by more than enough to compensate, and end up with much greater data bandwidth.
      Multiple PCIe lanes I think do not represent a reversion, because each lane operates independently, on its own timing, avoiding the clock-skew problem.

  • @haz939
    @haz939 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Modern PCI-express doesn't need a chipset or northbridge .We have come full circle. Probably a good thing a old chipset might bottleneck a new graphics card.

  • @LiamDennehy
    @LiamDennehy 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Two notes:
    EISA lived a very productive life in x86 servers (and others I believe), and saying PCI lives on in PCIE is ridiculous: the name is all they share, they are fundamentally, radically different concepts. PCIE doesn't even have a concept of data path width.
    Otherwise, good summary 👍

  • @nopetarpan
    @nopetarpan 8 ปีที่แล้ว +38

    why Im not suprised that APPLE computers were that hard to expand... LOL

    • @StefanoPapaleo-TS
      @StefanoPapaleo-TS 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Were? ;) They've been moving the clock 30 years back with their products in terms of expandability.

    • @herrfriberger5
      @herrfriberger5 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Stefano Papaleo
      Or 30 years forward. Who ever said all things got better over time, especially regarding the amount of freedom for the consumer. Just look at M$ business practices.

    • @StefanoPapaleo-TS
      @StefanoPapaleo-TS 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Sven Ekeberg
      Well, no one said that they always get better over time but expanding a Mac did get easier, and then it just didn't again ;) Don't get me started on MS...

    • @CaptainDangeax
      @CaptainDangeax 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      There was a time when Apple were really geek computers, like the Apple II series, with lots of expansion boards possible for color display, floppy drives, sound, serial and parallel, and even a CP/M board with a Z80 processor. Then tables turned : the Apple 2C had a lot inside, but no expansion at all. The first Mac was the same. At the same time, Commodore released the A2000 with a zorro bus... The PC was thought industrial from the start : 8 bit ISA, 60 bits ISA, 32 bits Compaq EISA, 32 bit VLB, PCI, PCI-Express...

    • @nickwallette6201
      @nickwallette6201 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Kinda figured I would see this comment somewhere after that bit about the Classic. OK, well, being an equal opportunity user (Mac, Win, and Linux) I can say that my MacBook Pro is the only laptop I've ever owned that has enabled me to use a full size expansion card. It has two Thunderbolt jacks - which is essentially external PCIe. All it takes is a PCIe enclosure to house and power the card. Or just a cable to convert to FireWire. So basically, all the specialized audio hardware I have is as, or more, compatible with an Apple laptop than any given one of my PCs. I would say the opportunity for expansion is pretty good there.

  • @ikeyasector
    @ikeyasector 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm in the process of inventing a new BUS standard. It's called the FUCKME (Fast Universal Communication and Kinetic Media Extended). It's based off of the old PCMICA (People Can't Memorize Industrial Computer Acronyms).

  • @chbrules
    @chbrules 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Didn't know the etymology of bus from omnibus. Very interesting!

    • @GroovingPict
      @GroovingPict 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      where did you think it came from? I mean, thats where the vehicle gets its name from as well

    • @Rosscoff2000
      @Rosscoff2000 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      In computer terms I don't think omnibus was ever used as the opening of the video suggests. The shortened word bus had already been in use for maybe half a century or more for electrical power buses or busbars, and I'm sure it was adopted from that usage straight into data buses. I don't think the full word omnibus was ever applied to even the earliest data buses.

  • @Lucius_Chiaraviglio
    @Lucius_Chiaraviglio 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I remember when Macintoshes started offering expansion slots: Although some of the bigger Macs had NuBus slots, it seemed that every Mac model had its own mutually incompatible local bus slot (although they didn't call it that).

    • @xluumu
      @xluumu 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Many old Macs had a PDS-expansion slot, a processor direct slot. It was a direct connection to the processor, so it allowed very fast transfer rates and processor upgrades.

    • @Lucius_Chiaraviglio
      @Lucius_Chiaraviglio 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@xluumu They did, but it was different on almost every model of Mac.

    • @xluumu
      @xluumu 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio They were processor specific for the most part.

    • @Lucius_Chiaraviglio
      @Lucius_Chiaraviglio 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@xluumu The number of different processor direct slots significantly exceeded the number of different types of processor.

    • @xluumu
      @xluumu 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Lucius_Chiaraviglio Not really, they were, for the most part, processor specific, with the exception of the LC-PDS, which was shared between 68020, 68030 and 68040-equipped models, with 25 MHz 030- and 040-models with an added connector for extra 16 lanes, while maintaining compatibility with the earlier cards.

  • @Kie-7077
    @Kie-7077 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    0:28 that surely isn't a real board, I'm not expert but I don't think traces go around in circles like that unless they're just there for decoration.

  • @KarlHamilton
    @KarlHamilton 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    The Zorro bus with Autoconfig was the best thing ever, until PCI showed up.

    • @KarlHamilton
      @KarlHamilton 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@desertfish74 and the fucker didn't even mention it. Kids these days.

  • @builder396
    @builder396 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Egh, standard PCI is still used today though. I mean my computer still has 4 normal PCI slots plus 2 PCIe (2x and 16x respectively). Without normal PCI a lot of cards with less demanding functions (lets say USB or LAN cards, though these are basically obsolete usually). But I am wondering when PCI will be phased out since anything you can hook up to a PCI slot you has a USB alternative these days.

  • @TheEulerID
    @TheEulerID 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    OK, I know this was a very quick tour, but how could there be no mention of two of the most radical changes, namely the move from shared buses to dedicated point-to-point and from parallel to serial bus architectures? Yes, PCIe can have multiple lanes, but each of those is a separate serial connection and not parallel in the traditional sense.
    Nb. some may object that for something to be called a bus, it must allow for more than two devices to be attached, but I see plenty of authourative sources describing PCIe as a communication bus architecture.

  • @djmccullough9233
    @djmccullough9233 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Huh.. I built pc's during the Vesa local bus era, and i never had a single issue mixing vendors. they were all functional,( if they didnt arrive dead.)

  • @matsv201
    @matsv201 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Well.. to be fair.. The VL-bus was quite popular and to my experience it worked really well. It was really a 32 bit ISA bus with a 33Mhz clock speed. If i remember corectly there was also 16 bit VL-bus cards (mostly sound cards) that was pretty much ISA cards with 33Mhz clock. Of cause the DX40 and DX50 processors may have problem, but the DX2 and DX4 works just fine
    PCI works pretty much in the same way as VL-bus but it was bridged.
    AGP is not a bus. its right there in the name... Advance Grapics Port.. its a port, not a bus.
    Also, for clearity, PCIe is also a port, not a bus.

    • @matsv201
      @matsv201 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Duck Dodgers Not protocol, rather modulation.
      AGP is ported, its in the name "Accelerated Graphical Port). PCI is a buss. This is also the reason why one hardly ever sees a MB with two AGP ports. Also AGP 2.0 uses DDR transfer.
      There also exist 66Mhz PCI buses.

    • @kaltblut
      @kaltblut 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      the dx4/120 ran on 40mhz internal speed as well though. could interfere with the VL bus the same as the dx40

    • @matsv201
      @matsv201 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      kaltblut That is true... The DX4 is actually a DX3. But by the time the DX4 become available most components was overclockable to 40Mhz anyway.
      There did exist DX40 and DX50 CPU:s that didn´t have clock multiplyers also

  • @randywatson8347
    @randywatson8347 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    From PCI express I'm totally outdated... that connection looks so fragile it might snap off?

  • @justinowens8834
    @justinowens8834 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    You jumped summa muh busses!

    • @snorman1911
      @snorman1911 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Three cheers for the chort!

  • @ChristCenteredMinist
    @ChristCenteredMinist 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Don't forget apple II used the expansion bus. The old altar

  • @DracoDan2
    @DracoDan2 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Okay, it's VERY rare when I see a slot I don't recognize, but what the hell were those double length ISA slots at 5:38-5:49?! My first guess would be a rise slot, but since there are two I doubt that would be the case. Something proprietary maybe?

    • @DracoDan2
      @DracoDan2 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Never mind, I found my own answer. These are an example of the "local buses" he mentions that are pretty much unstandardized. That Gigabyte motherboard shown (GA-486US) had three compatible cards and they were all unsurprisingly made by Gigabyte. More info here: www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=35707

  • @JohnDoe-gm5qr
    @JohnDoe-gm5qr 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I never knew the old macs were so bad as for expandability. Also with the tube of the monitor exposed it must have been a dangerous computer to tinker with. The reason being is that the old CRTs often had a capacitor and that could give you quite a zap if you are not careful. I hear that is why old CRT TVs were dangerous to repair.

    • @supernova6486
      @supernova6486 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes that old Crt could give you a shock of about 50,000 volts and actually could hold that even unplugged for over 5 years.

    • @thysonsacclaim
      @thysonsacclaim 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Oh yeah, old Macs are worse about expandability and compatibility. They used weird proprietary keyboard and mouse standards, proprietary networking, their own printer spec. Even more recently, on older Desktop Macs that allow PCIe or AGP graphics cards, or standard RAM slots, it generally has to be a specific type of card, often with a specific BIOS revision for the graphics card/special edition, the RAM must be ECC, specific brands etc.
      This is why I never work on Macs unless I have to. Buying a replacement video card for a Mac Pro early 2008... brand new/new old stock they cost several hundred dollars. Even used, they are $100-200.
      Whereas a typical card of that vintage which is more common would cost $25-50.

    • @lotrbuilders5041
      @lotrbuilders5041 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      John Doe the Apple ][ line had great expandibility though, so jobs killed it

  • @marcosdheleno
    @marcosdheleno 8 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    great video, really informative, however, i think you should slow down a little bit, it can get a little confusing with so many diferent therms, so it might not be as understandable. still really good watch.

    • @Wagoo
      @Wagoo 8 ปีที่แล้ว

      always the youtube speed setting..

    • @marcosdheleno
      @marcosdheleno 8 ปีที่แล้ว

      i probably should've explain better, but when i said speed, i really meant pacing, the amount of info, is almost rapidfire, so just a little bit of slowdown here and there could make the retention of information much higher.

    • @Nostalgianerd
      @Nostalgianerd  8 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Just pause the video every so often when you need a break.

  • @jordanlewis3790
    @jordanlewis3790 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wonder if anything will replace pcie in the future...

  • @unvergebeneid
    @unvergebeneid 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Did he say ISA never caught on? It was the de facto standard for quite a while and some boards still support it to this day for backwards compatibility!

    • @thysonsacclaim
      @thysonsacclaim 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      EISA, not ISA.

    • @steeviebops
      @steeviebops 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      EISA did make some progress in servers but that was about it.

  • @PauloConstantino167
    @PauloConstantino167 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    can you do a brief history of e-begging please ?

  • @ChristCenteredMinist
    @ChristCenteredMinist 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Pci-e x1 card can fit in pci-e x4, 8, or 16 slot but not the other way around...

  • @soylentgreenb
    @soylentgreenb 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    ISA really overstayed its welcome. High-end 486's could run games like Doom at the maximum 35 FPS the engine allowed and wolfenstein 3D at the maximum 70 FPS the engine allowed; but it could not display it fast enough on an ISA graphics cards, so this limited framerates to ~20 FPS. 16-bit ISA at 8.3 MHz had a max theoretical bandwidth of a measily 16 MB/s.
    Vesa local bus was a necessity for a high end 486. With the pentium came the PCI bus. Both VLB and PCI could push up to 128 MB/s.

    • @Thelemorf
      @Thelemorf 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I had PCI slots in my 486

    • @soylentgreenb
      @soylentgreenb 8 ปีที่แล้ว

      +Thelemorf Then I believe you had a late model 486. I don't remember those existing before pentium 100 and 133 MHz was a thing.

    • @Thelemorf
      @Thelemorf 8 ปีที่แล้ว

      Probably. I think i bought it late 1994, a 486dx4-100 that is still in my possession :)

    • @herrfriberger5
      @herrfriberger5 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Perhaps because it was retroactively renamed "ISA" (standing for the pompous "Industri Standard Architecture"). In reality it was just that same old 8/16-bit XT/AT-bus. But it was often possible to increase the speed of the ISA slots, from 8 MHz to 10, 12, or 16 MHz, sometimes even higher (on boards using a 33 or 40 MHz 486 bus). That could raise the performance on graphics output quite a bit, often a doubling of the raw speed.

  • @UXXV
    @UXXV 8 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Another great vid though your pronunciation of Altair is a bit off and AGP stands for Accelerated Graphics Port not Processing :)

    • @Nostalgianerd
      @Nostalgianerd  8 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Ahhh, darn it. Well, I do a lot of these ones unscripted, my mind lapsed.

    • @error079
      @error079 8 ปีที่แล้ว

      then please write a script next time. Pity to waste all that effort and get the details wrong. Some technical spec on the different buses would also be nice

    • @Nostalgianerd
      @Nostalgianerd  8 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      +error079 No. Like it or lump it.

    • @UXXV
      @UXXV 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Massive fan (12cm Noctua) bud so no worries! Keep up the excellent work :D

    • @OldAzzJuggalo4Life
      @OldAzzJuggalo4Life 8 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Wow what a smug assmaster hope that comment at least made you feel important

  • @devildad1620
    @devildad1620 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    My Mac Plus has an external HDD. I have an IBM PS2 as well but it has a flat battery and getting everything to reinstall OS2 has been a pain.

    • @Zizzily
      @Zizzily 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      You can run Windows 3.1 on a PS/2. Would probably be easier.

  • @stephenwalters4798
    @stephenwalters4798 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    The Apple][ had a VERY popular expansion bus

  • @KrzysiuNet
    @KrzysiuNet 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    What do you mean by these compatibility problems with VLB? I never had any problems, never heard of any and I've checked it again - I can't find any data which could support that. What problems did you have?

  • @suterb
    @suterb 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    4:02 Nethack!

  • @samuelhulme8347
    @samuelhulme8347 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I did not see the video thumbnail so i though the video was about the buses on the road

  • @timdaeleman
    @timdaeleman 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Too bad no mention of the (in the time) much more advanced Amiga Zorro II & III busses. With DMA and already featuring autoconfig in 1987, way before PCI came with similar functionality... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Zorro_II & en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Zorro_III

  • @KK4CNM
    @KK4CNM 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    Do you ever have trouble with youtube tagging your background music? It happens a lot on my channels, I buy a lot of stuff from stock music places and every time I upload something I have to file for a waver.

  • @5urg3x
    @5urg3x 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    PCI express really isn’t a bus. It’s more of a fabric topology.

  • @koolioperson5534
    @koolioperson5534 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    What about pmcia card buses?

  • @TheLinkoln18
    @TheLinkoln18 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    When does a port become a bus?

  • @carisi2k11
    @carisi2k11 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    In what world is a 2016 Macintosh expandable?

  • @donwald3436
    @donwald3436 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    No PCI-X?

    • @douro20
      @douro20 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      PCI-X was a short-lived standard which never saw much use outside of server platforms. It expanded PCI's bus width to 64 bits and added an extra connector to each slot to provide an interface for compatible cards, which could run up to 133MHz. It was also possible to use PCI-X cards on a regular PCI mainboard as long as the card supported 32-bit mode.

  • @TheBcoolGuy
    @TheBcoolGuy 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I own about 4 AGP GPUs.

  • @AaronShenghao
    @AaronShenghao 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I see, Apple never changes...

    • @xluumu
      @xluumu 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Apple computers before the Mac were very expandable. Then Macs were not expandable at all, until they started making Macs that were very expandable again. Then they mostly abandoned expandability. So, I wouldn't say they don't change, as they have changed a number of times.

  • @TheExileFox
    @TheExileFox 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Major fail that this video doesn't properly poke the standard PC ISA bus

  • @toomuchsugar3960
    @toomuchsugar3960 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    So apple hasn't changed since then?

  • @pleaseuseOdysee
    @pleaseuseOdysee 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    If Apple has triumphed over IBM computing would have been so limited and awful

  • @venkateshbabu5623
    @venkateshbabu5623 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Basic universal split. BUS.

  • @adamwishneusky
    @adamwishneusky 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Mention macs at the start and no PDS or NuBus? 😜🤓

  • @computerassociates7686
    @computerassociates7686 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    Im surprised there was no mention of the universal serial bus.

    • @Nostalgianerd
      @Nostalgianerd  8 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I wanted to stick to expansion cards. I think USB will be a point for another day.

    • @jesuszamora6949
      @jesuszamora6949 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I imagine USB is quite the subject on its own, as it replaced so many things on the PC (not the least being portable storage - everything is thumb drives nowadays, just about)

    • @BertGrink
      @BertGrink 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      +Nostalgia Nerd For what it's worth, i think you made the right choice since USB has an entirely different scope.
      P.S: Love your videos Mate, keep up the good work. :)

    • @BertGrink
      @BertGrink 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      +Jesus Zamora Yessir, the whole purpose of USB was to replace the older serial and parallel ports, which were used for external devices such as Modems and Printers. Of course, with USB the scope has been widened considerably so that you can connect all sorts of devices to a computer in a simple and expedient manner.

    • @Baerchenization
      @Baerchenization 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      It is not a bus, because it is a star formation, e.g. USB Hub...

  • @MrMorbo420
    @MrMorbo420 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    The soldering shown @ 1:30 is poor technique. The pin and pad should be heated to reflow temp, then solder put to the pad/pin, rather than the solder. The technique in the video is actually what causes 'cold' joints. Hence the name, the metals were not heated enough to alloy. It really jumped out at me...

  • @miles2378
    @miles2378 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Us anyone geting Arabic captions when you start this or any video?

  • @pekertimulia125
    @pekertimulia125 ปีที่แล้ว

    4km
    Industri manufacturing yg di perlukan hanyalah gudang masing2x infinite element

  • @cda32
    @cda32 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    You left out PCI-X

  • @homelessEh
    @homelessEh 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    :54...cant expand early apple computers?... try EVERY single one of them since they left the wooden box...

    • @douro20
      @douro20 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Macintosh computers didn't have expansion ports until the introduction of the Macintosh II.

  • @Shand1982
    @Shand1982 8 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    microchannel rules! :)