Sal, Both soft boxes are made by SMDV Korea. They even sell they're on version called the SMDV Flip. This is the version that I have. I plan to stop by their booth at WPPI and pick up the 28 and 32". I like them because of the ability to change the mount. I can fit regular rectangular speed lights or the round head Godox V1 as well. I have a bigger version for my B10 and B10 plus called the SMDV Flip 36. They also have a 44" version as well.
Hi Greg! Is the SMDV version the same in all the specs and fits with the Profoto a10? It seems to be the version that’s available in Europe (the angler only ships from the US)… would be curious to get my hands on it… thanks for the video and review Sal!
I just bought the profoto clic 2.7 after owning both the 24 and 28 inch angler. You are right the magnet is weak on the angler but the optional a1 mount has a lock that works ok. The gel system is much better and way cheaper on the angler.As an event shooter that is very important.The build isnt much different. The profoto seems softer though. I will return my profoto because angler just released a 32inch version to match the profoto version for almost a 3rd of the price and I can use my gels still.
Appreciate the DEEP dive into this item. Seems a great piece of kit that keeps you from going DEEPER in your picket to purchase! Oh, you might need to dig back a bit DEEPER in your emails to see if you can find my note/request.. please and thank you..
Man, your review went 4" deeper than anyone elses! Yeah I bought the 24 angler when the a2 was just released, but ofcourse the a2 didn't fit the adapter. So returned mine, but I see they finally just came out with the A2 adapter so bing, I'll be ordering the 28" and hopefully it'll be deep enough! ;)
As a portable setup, what would be the largest size of clic style would you go? Glow / SMDV have a 44” version and Strobeoro has a 48” and even a 60”. Owning a 60” already I believe even if it was clic style it would take way to long to setup
SMDV makes a 32” in this style with the tilting handle, but all the larger ones you mention are a different design that mounts to a light via a traditional speedring (while still folding flat). I have a 44” Parasnap and I don’t see why the larger Strobepro ones wouldn’t work just as well aside from being bulkier overall and taking up more storage space. One difference though with strobepro is that the speedring doesn’t swap out quickly like the smdv/glow versions. But on the other hand, they’re a lot cheaper.
Thanks for doing the review of the two units. Are the gel latching mechanism the same for both units? If something is likely to fail, I guess either the grip tilt device or the latch to open and close the gel area. This would be great to have for my camera flash.
How did you not bring up the push lock on the Angler. Angler originally had 12 magnets on its original v1/A1 adapter. There was an update. The new version one you have has 6 magnets and a push lock button. It locks the A1,A1X,A10 totally in place
@@SalCincotta1 The lock button drops right behind the zoom ring on the A10 flash head locking it it. On the A2 it doesnt do too much. But even on the Profoto Click the A2 falls out easy. Profoto just came out with an OCF adapter version 2. Which looks to have a deeper magnetized socket to hold the A2. The click is a great design but still isnt sturdy enough for an A2 for me to take it out running and gunning on a wedding day, I wish it was. I moved my light stand and my A2 fell out 2x on the click. Which is what caused me to buy the Angler. I now just use an A10 on the Angler. Besides the A10 has a higher guide number then the A2 making it more ideal for a softbox.
@@SalCincotta1 Pretty shocking price differential if the build quality is the same. I also don't understand why grids cost so much and don't come standard on most softboxes. It doesn't seem like they would be that expensive to manufacture.
@@philipgalden agree with you 100% on this. as for them recouping R&D... for their lights i totally see that and agree. but these are LITERALLY THE EXACT SAME... no R&D were put into this... or there would be a lawsuit filed... for patents, etc. i promise you... having both of these in my hands and owning both... they are identical within 95% if not more.
@@SalCincotta1 I'm a patent attorney, and I had looked to see what Profoto may have filed just for that reason. Nothing relevant popped up, except an application on their grid assembly. Kind of surprising they wouldn't file on the Clic Softbox, unless there was some other similar product previously out on the market (maybe many years ago) that they knew about. Patent applications don't publish for 18 months after filing, and maybe the Clic Softbox hasn't been on the market for that long.
Hello everyone . So this is a good topic to discuss . Hey Sal so a couple of points. For any A2 users out there. Angler will be releasing an A2 specific insert later this month per their customer service. and If your remove the insert from the soft box, the insert can be mounted on a light stand separately and the Angler gels , grids etc can be put on the front of the insert magnetically. Now that's friggin awesome guys. #winning. :)
Lol Just mentioning what the comment below said " push lock on the Angler' makes it totally secure. lol One question Sal. "Do the Angler gels attach on the front of the Profoto flash itself??" Ps . Got the Angler 20 and 28 inch versions. :)
I bought an angler 28" with my first a2 and then the 32" profoto fast box as part of their promo and can confirm the angler gels do not work on profoto softbox and they barely hold on a2 and fall off if tipped however like Sal said they fit on the angler softbox with zero issue
4" deeper - that's a lot. Nice informative review. If we assume that the Profoto lasts 2 times longer than the Angler, then it still is a (net present value) good deal to buy two of the cheap one and have a spare in case it malfunctions. Looking at what I see in the video, 1.5 may be the best to expect from the "pro", rather than 2. The Profoto at $299 - imagine they had an egg-crate grid for it and it would probably also cost $299. The advantage of Profoto is that it has "Pro" printed on it. As an old broncolor buff my cynical comment was - for decades - that this marketing helped Profoto to their market share in the pro market while their flash duration and colour temperature really sucked. Bron fixed that already some 40 years ago, Profoto only in the past decade. Yet I have 4 Profoto RFi softboxes and these are very well made but with a point of attention. Again, as an old broncolor buff I found the RFi more sturdy, but they have quality control issues in that the baleens-with-very-nice-thick-grip-ends tend to come apart. So you need superglue to arrest those, or some metal-metal 2-component glue if/when that happens. The most wear you get on the other end where the baleen presses against the end of the sleeve of fabric. Especially when you take them apart and put them together frequently. And the speedring alone to put (up to) two speedlights into them is more expensive than your Angler. It is sturdy and looks good. For a beginning photo pro who still has to earn it, these price differences are hard to justify. As to the "Angler" - have you tried to track them down on Alibaba? I did not, but expect they might cost 25% near where they are made. As to the gels with the Angler - I have seen reviews from other YT channels that tested ND filters and polarizers. The biggest surprise was that there was a big difference in colour neutrality between the brands/versions and some well-known brand did very bad at that. No relation with price there. I would be sour if a gel did that to me and I needed to have different colour profiles or corrections for different gels, different light modifiers, etc. Because that adds to post processing cost/time. This would also apply to Profoto's gels, by the way. This is hard to test, I know, in the case of, say, a CTO, but it makes sense to test shoot different use cases with the gels and see what their impact is on colour profile. "Deeper" - size matters but not as you think. There's a recent obsession with deeper softboxes that is misinformed and some influencers are culprit at that. That's not you, Sal, btw. Deeper may mean you need a larger "studio", taller ceiling, etc., than what you have available to work with, as a starter. (A) The but against these is that a deep (parabola) softbox with a diffusion panel is just a plain softbox and the depth does nothing - as general principle. You will also see that the light circle put out by differently shaped softboxes is about the same between all sorts of models of boxes. In that sense, an octa is not better than a similar area or dimension rectangular model. What changes with the model shape is the catchlight and the quality of light in the sense that a strip box in one direction is narrow (harder light) and the other tall (softer light) - but that is subtle and may need "Sal" eyes to consciously see. And in the case we want to feather, a 4' stripbox can contribute better than a 2' octa - depending on the orientation of the strip. (B) If you want to use a (deep) parabola reflector as such, then you need an exposed flash tube and you need to be able to send the light back into the reflector and you need to be able to focus/defocus the flash in the parabola. If and-and-and does not apply, then you'll never benefit from the parabola effect. (C) The problem with speedlights and Profoto in general is that the flash tube is hidden in a reflector case that sends light out about at the angle of a 35mm lens (full frame). The consequence is that a larger reflector (modifier) without diffusion panels has no contribution to the quality of the light. If you want to see the effect I claim in A and C, then you need to shoot series of test shots on a larger white wall with the camera far back enough to register the entire flash circle. And also shoot the modifier from the front, looking into it so as to see to what extent it is used. Shooting with umbrellas this is imperative with flash devices that have no modelling light. A scholastic remark: the egg crate grid does not "focus" the light but reduces dispersion by absorption of light. We loose between 1 and 2 EV, I guess (depends on the size of the grid's openings and the depth of the grid). That's a lot in the case of a speedlight. So it prevents spilling light where we do not want it. It's not like an optical spot like the theatrical follow-spot that we can zoom and when we do its light intensity increases. That becomes relevant to a wedding shooter when the flash is used to overpower available light. Each reduction of maximum flash power limits our potential for doing so - with or without an ND filter. We do not need a lot of flash power with today's digital cameras because our sensors are controlled differently and consequently have different noise behaviour. My mirrorless camera has the same noise level at ISO 400 as at ISO 100 - that is a consequence of its two "amplification" levels with constant sensitivity. This in fact makes ISO into something like white balance that is just a number in the metadata of our images and just tells Lightroom Classic (Adobe Camera Raw) or Capture One how to process/open/render our images. The problem with raising ISO for limited flash power to work is that it also raises the contribution of available light. Using both a gel and a grid may not work in that case. And it points to using the highest power (Guide number) speedlight or speedlite that we can buy into the Angler. Angler - seems fishy to me - is that an English language mistake where they meant "Angel"? Reminds me of the cheap flash brand that is called "god ox" in Chinese. This should have been translated as "Holy Cow" (and, indeed, they never meant "go dogs" as that would have been an insult to certain religious people).
yeah.... im not really sure im following this... first, they do make an adapter for a speedlite, second... you want me to send you a unit to evaluate????
Profoto are very dishonest I find, and I've had some over twenty years back since acute gear. I'm done with them. All these knockoffs have proven what has always been obvious of the public... Profoto = total rip-off, for no extra value except if you like paying for lifestyle. They are all about that and certainly not about viable solutions and DIY fix kind of gear. Plus, I've proven time and time again the knockoffs actually perform way more professionally. Clearer, brighter, power efficient, corner-to-corner brightness. While Profoto spotlight, colour cast and can never have the corner-to-corner efficiency... And at such a price point??? I need no further proof they're half-@ssed twats. If you're going to spend that kind of money on gear, there's only Broncolor to actually elevate your style with actual truly high-end product, and some 10% cheaper for 200% more professional and CONSISTENT. I'm sticking to my knockoffs, as like I said, they actually perform the way I'm expected to as a 30-year professional. Profoto is everything BUT consistent, smart and viable in all ways. The only good thing about them is the style, the way the gear looks... Everyone knows what that's worth :) LOVED YOU REVIEW :) :) :)
Sal, Both soft boxes are made by SMDV Korea. They even sell they're on version called the SMDV Flip. This is the version that I have. I plan to stop by their booth at WPPI and pick up the 28 and 32". I like them because of the ability to change the mount. I can fit regular rectangular speed lights or the round head Godox V1 as well. I have a bigger version for my B10 and B10 plus called the SMDV Flip 36. They also have a 44" version as well.
yeah the ability to change the mount - really gives this a ton of versatility!!
Strobepro also has a similar style box but up to 60”. Not sure if SMDV is the same. I know SMDV and glow are one in the same.
Hi Greg! Is the SMDV version the same in all the specs and fits with the Profoto a10? It seems to be the version that’s available in Europe (the angler only ships from the US)… would be curious to get my hands on it… thanks for the video and review Sal!
Especially curious about how deep the SMDV is 😅
Would love one like this for my B10 Plus!
I've had my Angler FastBox for about a year and I absolutely love it!
SAME HERE!
I just bought the profoto clic 2.7 after owning both the 24 and 28 inch angler. You are right the magnet is weak on the angler but the optional a1 mount has a lock that works ok. The gel system is much better and way cheaper on the angler.As an event shooter that is very important.The build isnt much different. The profoto seems softer though. I will return my profoto because angler just released a 32inch version to match the profoto version for almost a 3rd of the price and I can use my gels still.
@RayValdezPhotography do you know where the Angler 32" Fastbox is currently being sold? Thanks, Liz
@Love Dog and Co. I did see it from smdv site but was waiting for the angler branding.
Do you mean the angler is softer for lighting or the gels?
@@chrisjohnsonfilms the material is like velvet.
@@RayValdezPhotography any noticable difference in light quality from profoto to angler softbox? I just ordered the 28" angler
Appreciate the DEEP dive into this item. Seems a great piece of kit that keeps you from going DEEPER in your picket to purchase! Oh, you might need to dig back a bit DEEPER in your emails to see if you can find my note/request.. please and thank you..
haha
Really enjoy your honest reviews, pointing out all the salient, relevant points that photographers need to know.
Where's this on sale for $99? BH is 139... TIA!
Man, your review went 4" deeper than anyone elses! Yeah I bought the 24 angler when the a2 was just released, but ofcourse the a2 didn't fit the adapter. So returned mine, but I see they finally just came out with the A2 adapter so bing, I'll be ordering the 28" and hopefully it'll be deep enough! ;)
I have a 32 smdv the setup and gel use is unbeatable. Just have to see how durable it is.
Do the profoto clic gels work in the angler?
As a portable setup, what would be the largest size of clic style would you go? Glow / SMDV have a 44” version and Strobeoro has a 48” and even a 60”. Owning a 60” already I believe even if it was clic style it would take way to long to setup
SMDV makes a 32” in this style with the tilting handle, but all the larger ones you mention are a different design that mounts to a light via a traditional speedring (while still folding flat). I have a 44” Parasnap and I don’t see why the larger Strobepro ones wouldn’t work just as well aside from being bulkier overall and taking up more storage space. One difference though with strobepro is that the speedring doesn’t swap out quickly like the smdv/glow versions. But on the other hand, they’re a lot cheaper.
Hi Sa! can you stack those angler gels with the profoto clic octas? thanks!!
Thanks for doing the review of the two units. Are the gel latching mechanism the same for both units? If something is likely to fail, I guess either the grip tilt device or the latch to open and close the gel area. This would be great to have for my camera flash.
Hey, I know that Circle K! This was a very useful review. Thanks.
No problem!
How did you not bring up the push lock on the Angler. Angler originally had 12 magnets on its original v1/A1 adapter. There was an update. The new version one you have has 6 magnets and a push lock button. It locks the A1,A1X,A10 totally in place
Well shit makes it even better. I’ll have to mess w it in the morning.
@@SalCincotta1 The lock button drops right behind the zoom ring on the A10 flash head locking it it. On the A2 it doesnt do too much. But even on the Profoto Click the A2 falls out easy. Profoto just came out with an OCF adapter version 2. Which looks to have a deeper magnetized socket to hold the A2. The click is a great design but still isnt sturdy enough for an A2 for me to take it out running and gunning on a wedding day, I wish it was. I moved my light stand and my A2 fell out 2x on the click. Which is what caused me to buy the Angler. I now just use an A10 on the Angler. Besides the A10 has a higher guide number then the A2 making it more ideal for a softbox.
@@ShaunMayerFotoswhat if you put a2 on light stand instead of the softbox?
@@chrisjohnsonfilms well that defeats the purpose of the entire design. Profoto should cut the handle off and save weight then
What size box is on sale for $99? I can find it anywhere.
it was the 24in - BH had it.
Profoto has 3 sizes of the Clic Softbox Octa -- 60, 70, and 80 cm -- and all have grids (sold separately at $129-$189)
clic softbox = 299 + grid for 199 = $498 vs angler for $139 all in. offensive really. no difference in quality or build.
@@SalCincotta1 Pretty shocking price differential if the build quality is the same. I also don't understand why grids cost so much and don't come standard on most softboxes. It doesn't seem like they would be that expensive to manufacture.
But I also don' t see Profoto lowering their price after they recoup their R&D investment.
@@philipgalden agree with you 100% on this. as for them recouping R&D... for their lights i totally see that and agree. but these are LITERALLY THE EXACT SAME... no R&D were put into this... or there would be a lawsuit filed... for patents, etc. i promise you... having both of these in my hands and owning both... they are identical within 95% if not more.
@@SalCincotta1 I'm a patent attorney, and I had looked to see what Profoto may have filed just for that reason. Nothing relevant popped up, except an application on their grid assembly. Kind of surprising they wouldn't file on the Clic Softbox, unless there was some other similar product previously out on the market (maybe many years ago) that they knew about. Patent applications don't publish for 18 months after filing, and maybe the Clic Softbox hasn't been on the market for that long.
Great Video!!
Hello everyone . So this is a good topic to discuss . Hey Sal so a couple of points. For any A2 users out there. Angler will be releasing an A2 specific insert later this month per their customer service. and If your remove the insert from the soft box, the insert can be mounted on a light stand separately and the Angler gels , grids etc can be put on the front of the insert magnetically. Now that's friggin awesome guys. #winning. :)
Lol Just mentioning what the comment below said " push lock on the Angler' makes it totally secure. lol One question Sal. "Do the Angler gels attach on the front of the Profoto flash itself??" Ps . Got the Angler 20 and 28 inch versions. :)
The gels attach to the front of the softbox but I didn’t test it on the actual a1
I bought an angler 28" with my first a2 and then the 32" profoto fast box as part of their promo and can confirm the angler gels do not work on profoto softbox and they barely hold on a2 and fall off if tipped however like Sal said they fit on the angler softbox with zero issue
Depth matters, and deeper got my win
lol
4" deeper - that's a lot. Nice informative review. If we assume that the Profoto lasts 2 times longer than the Angler, then it still is a (net present value) good deal to buy two of the cheap one and have a spare in case it malfunctions. Looking at what I see in the video, 1.5 may be the best to expect from the "pro", rather than 2.
The Profoto at $299 - imagine they had an egg-crate grid for it and it would probably also cost $299. The advantage of Profoto is that it has "Pro" printed on it.
As an old broncolor buff my cynical comment was - for decades - that this marketing helped Profoto to their market share in the pro market while their flash duration and colour temperature really sucked. Bron fixed that already some 40 years ago, Profoto only in the past decade. Yet I have 4 Profoto RFi softboxes and these are very well made but with a point of attention. Again, as an old broncolor buff I found the RFi more sturdy, but they have quality control issues in that the baleens-with-very-nice-thick-grip-ends tend to come apart. So you need superglue to arrest those, or some metal-metal 2-component glue if/when that happens. The most wear you get on the other end where the baleen presses against the end of the sleeve of fabric. Especially when you take them apart and put them together frequently. And the speedring alone to put (up to) two speedlights into them is more expensive than your Angler. It is sturdy and looks good.
For a beginning photo pro who still has to earn it, these price differences are hard to justify.
As to the "Angler" - have you tried to track them down on Alibaba? I did not, but expect they might cost 25% near where they are made.
As to the gels with the Angler - I have seen reviews from other YT channels that tested ND filters and polarizers. The biggest surprise was that there was a big difference in colour neutrality between the brands/versions and some well-known brand did very bad at that. No relation with price there. I would be sour if a gel did that to me and I needed to have different colour profiles or corrections for different gels, different light modifiers, etc. Because that adds to post processing cost/time. This would also apply to Profoto's gels, by the way.
This is hard to test, I know, in the case of, say, a CTO, but it makes sense to test shoot different use cases with the gels and see what their impact is on colour profile.
"Deeper" - size matters but not as you think. There's a recent obsession with deeper softboxes that is misinformed and some influencers are culprit at that. That's not you, Sal, btw. Deeper may mean you need a larger "studio", taller ceiling, etc., than what you have available to work with, as a starter.
(A) The but against these is that a deep (parabola) softbox with a diffusion panel is just a plain softbox and the depth does nothing - as general principle. You will also see that the light circle put out by differently shaped softboxes is about the same between all sorts of models of boxes. In that sense, an octa is not better than a similar area or dimension rectangular model.
What changes with the model shape is the catchlight and the quality of light in the sense that a strip box in one direction is narrow (harder light) and the other tall (softer light) - but that is subtle and may need "Sal" eyes to consciously see. And in the case we want to feather, a 4' stripbox can contribute better than a 2' octa - depending on the orientation of the strip.
(B) If you want to use a (deep) parabola reflector as such, then you need an exposed flash tube and you need to be able to send the light back into the reflector and you need to be able to focus/defocus the flash in the parabola. If and-and-and does not apply, then you'll never benefit from the parabola effect.
(C) The problem with speedlights and Profoto in general is that the flash tube is hidden in a reflector case that sends light out about at the angle of a 35mm lens (full frame). The consequence is that a larger reflector (modifier) without diffusion panels has no contribution to the quality of the light.
If you want to see the effect I claim in A and C, then you need to shoot series of test shots on a larger white wall with the camera far back enough to register the entire flash circle. And also shoot the modifier from the front, looking into it so as to see to what extent it is used. Shooting with umbrellas this is imperative with flash devices that have no modelling light.
A scholastic remark: the egg crate grid does not "focus" the light but reduces dispersion by absorption of light. We loose between 1 and 2 EV, I guess (depends on the size of the grid's openings and the depth of the grid). That's a lot in the case of a speedlight. So it prevents spilling light where we do not want it. It's not like an optical spot like the theatrical follow-spot that we can zoom and when we do its light intensity increases.
That becomes relevant to a wedding shooter when the flash is used to overpower available light. Each reduction of maximum flash power limits our potential for doing so - with or without an ND filter.
We do not need a lot of flash power with today's digital cameras because our sensors are controlled differently and consequently have different noise behaviour. My mirrorless camera has the same noise level at ISO 400 as at ISO 100 - that is a consequence of its two "amplification" levels with constant sensitivity. This in fact makes ISO into something like white balance that is just a number in the metadata of our images and just tells Lightroom Classic (Adobe Camera Raw) or Capture One how to process/open/render our images.
The problem with raising ISO for limited flash power to work is that it also raises the contribution of available light. Using both a gel and a grid may not work in that case. And it points to using the highest power (Guide number) speedlight or speedlite that we can buy into the Angler.
Angler - seems fishy to me - is that an English language mistake where they meant "Angel"? Reminds me of the cheap flash brand that is called "god ox" in Chinese. This should have been translated as "Holy Cow" (and, indeed, they never meant "go dogs" as that would have been an insult to certain religious people).
To bad they don’t have an adapter to use a speed light. If they act on this for the angler it would be nice to send me a unit to evaluate.
yeah.... im not really sure im following this... first, they do make an adapter for a speedlite, second... you want me to send you a unit to evaluate????
in my best Peter Griffin voice - "hehe, he said "Deep"!
I hope Angler makes an answer to the Clic Magnum for less
The only problem with the Angler is that the A2 doesn't work with it -
not true... they are releasing or have released an insert - happy times!
@@SalCincotta1 Well, at the time of this comment on this video, they don't yet
work with the A2. 😁😁
Profoto are very dishonest I find, and I've had some over twenty years back since acute gear. I'm done with them. All these knockoffs have proven what has always been obvious of the public... Profoto = total rip-off, for no extra value except if you like paying for lifestyle. They are all about that and certainly not about viable solutions and DIY fix kind of gear. Plus, I've proven time and time again the knockoffs actually perform way more professionally. Clearer, brighter, power efficient, corner-to-corner brightness. While Profoto spotlight, colour cast and can never have the corner-to-corner efficiency... And at such a price point??? I need no further proof they're half-@ssed twats. If you're going to spend that kind of money on gear, there's only Broncolor to actually elevate your style with actual truly high-end product, and some 10% cheaper for 200% more professional and CONSISTENT. I'm sticking to my knockoffs, as like I said, they actually perform the way I'm expected to as a 30-year professional. Profoto is everything BUT consistent, smart and viable in all ways. The only good thing about them is the style, the way the gear looks... Everyone knows what that's worth :)
LOVED YOU REVIEW :) :) :)