Nice work & your video quality is way better this time. Glad you like the unit. We've got the same in its crate to use as a future backup or replacement if our 8kwh inverter ever fails. Hope you can get your larger array soon, be nice to see those internal charge controllers loaded up and producing 6000+ watts for you. Do be cautious not to exceed the C.C.s wattage/amperage/voltage ratings tho. I think 6000 watts is a safe number given clear cold weather/cloud lensing voltage spikes. I always thought the power saver switch just throttled the inverter down when no loads are present. From what I've heard and read it's best to leave it off if you have continuous loads on the inverter. I will study up on that a bit more. Yes, I find my gal is always happier with uninterrupted maximum power available to her, lol.
Thank's for the feedback, that's good info. I'm glad you noticed the sound, I was trying out a wireless lapel mic and wasn't sure it would matter to viewers. I'll keep using it.
@@bhunter736 it definitely cuts out the background noise, fans etc. We're you able to determine weather the cooked mosfets on the 12k were on the inverter circuit or the charge controller circuit ? Hope it's a quick-easy fix for you.
Hi Brad, thanks for the video! I'm looking to do the exact same, but dreading the pulley system. Might leave it on a moving cart for now, but hoping your pulley video will inspire me. Question How much battery kWh capacity do you typically burn through overnight? (between sunset and sunrise). I noticed you have quite a lot of battery capacity, but wondering if I could start with much less. Thanks again
The overnight draw depends on my AC needs. For me to cycle down to 30% and then back to full, the heat of the day can't exceed about 85 degrees. This makes the AC only run a couple times overnight and collectively with other evening loads amounts to about 14kWh.
Far as I know: Bonding refers to connection between neutral and ground. Earthing means grounding. If there is a grounding point on the casing of the inverter it needs connected to ground because there is no other way to ensure a short path to ground. If you install a fuse on the casing grounding line and a short occurs, then the fuse will blow and the case will remain energized therefore hazardous: not a good idea. I just ordered the inverter and don’t remember to have noticed a grounding point on the casing. If there was none it meant that the casing is already grounded internally.
I am working on a similar setup. I want to mostly go off grid but still maintain utility power. The 12k inverter is wired similar to yours. The AC input from the main panel to inverter, hot1, hot2. I have a ground from main panel ground to inverter ground, as stated in the manual. You have the input inverter ground going straight to the case ground. It seems like your grounding the inverter to itself. Being an input ground, I was not sure that is part of the internal ground/neutral bond of the inverter. I have an off grid sub-panel. I am unsure how to ground this. If the AC input was not hooked up, it would make sense to have a separate ground rod for this off grid panel. But with the ground/neutral bond in the inverter and the AC input there to use if I am unable to charge the batteries due to lack of solar, would having another ground rod create a group loop? Should I take the AC input ground and run it directly to the off grid panel, then to its own ground rod? This is very confusing. BTW, I mounted a hoist to the wall to lift the inverter. Once install, I left it there for future issues. It was cheap enough and I was able to do the work by myself.
The case needs grounded, so all of my Earth grounds were collected at that one point for visibility. The correct way to do it would be inside the sub-panel. When the unit is supplying power to the sub-panel, the tie to the utility is broken, so the separate ground rod is recommended to ensure a clear traceable path. When the utility is engaged, I do have two ground rods but it is still not a loop. However, I do create potential having two grounds for energy to travel between the sub-panel and main-panel ground lines. That is not really the best case, but the tracing of the problem in my case would only be a matter of inches due to my arrangement so I'm comfortable with that. There are some creative ideas on setting up a separate ground relay switch to fully isolate this condition. My setup also leaves several circuits on the utility full time, so when my inverter is running I don't want any chance that there is a cross back path anywhere other than the dirt outside. This is a very confusing subject as so many things connect together under the heading of ground. If you are unsure, I recommend getting a professional opinion for your specific setup.
Study the NEC codes or take some classes online on electrical and solar. These things can kill you don't know what you're doing. If you build it to code, you know it's safe. Don't want to worry about it when you're not home.
I want to power everything in my house besides the central air conditioner. How can that be done? I have 8 batteries and over 7000 watts of solar panels, how would you do it?
That's a fairly complicated question. The simple answer is to have an electrician actually look at what you have, panel types, etc and then to perform the tie-in portion of the work. Aside from that, I feel like a 6Kw inverter isn't quite enough to run an average home, even without the central AC. I have a spreadsheet that kind of breaks down how to calculate it all. I'm going to add the link in the description of this video above. For my wife, daughter and myself, the concern is that things like the toaster oven, microwave, hair dryer, vacuum, and others have potential to all run at the same time when we have overnight visitors. In that case, a momentary load could get up to 10 Kilowatts for a short time, but definitely more than the few seconds of overload that a 6Kw machine can typically handle. In my case, to reach a confidence level that running some group of these items at the same time isn't going to result in a self made power outage, I believe I need a 12Kw inverter and batteries to support it.
Looks like you have 2 N-G bonding: 1 main utility box and 2nd in inverter. When there's short circuit, breakers should sense or trigger shut off from sudden increase of current. Breakers respond to heat softening tension to flip & disconnect Current always go back to power source but with 2 bonds the current flow in circles not reaching breaker. Here i see 2 sources: inverter's autotransformer and grid's transformer. Are the AC wires 8awg? Looks 10 awg from here.
Hi. Great vid. Thanks for creating this. I have a question. I'm looking at this inverter and I want to put 6000 watts of solar pv in. Let's say I need 12kw instantaneously, will it share that load with the utility or is it an either/or scenario? Thanks
Load is never shared with the utility with this unit. The panels and batteries will have combined power available. I would recommend a different thought process with the off-grid variety, think of them as battery powered inverters with the ability to charge from solar or utility.
Only thing i don't like with User battery setting in the the shine app its always shows 100% battery which is not accurate . Please advise if you know how to get rid of this issue
Unfortunately, I don't have enough information to answer the question. The size requirement is different for PV panel wire, AC tie-in wire, and battery connection wire. The best thing to do is refer to the manual for your inverter and consult a professional.
So do you use a separate neutral conductor and grounding rod for that Inverter powered subpanel? If not then you can have two bonding locations, one for utility and one for the inverter and there is a chance you overload the inverter when the unit is in bypass mode (batteries can only be charged from utility while in bypass) due to possible imbalance of neutral to the two phases from the utility supply
HOWdy BH736, ... Thanks I have a similar SPF 6000T DVM-MPV --- Growatt set-up in a HYBRID configuration ... COOP the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA ...
If you exceed the 12k output from inverter, let's say you have everything in the house running and you need 15k of power does the grid kick in and give you additional 3k to help out? Thats one feature I'm looking for. (maybe you can test that?) thanks
I'm cheating and doing a copy paste for part of this answer - 'Load is never shared with the utility with this unit. The panels and batteries will have combined power available. I would recommend a different thought process with the off-grid variety, think of them as battery powered inverters with the ability to charge from solar or utility.' - And to answer your question, no it will not supplement from the grid, only switch back to it. The limit accepted from the grid is a 40A circuit feed, so that's only about 9600 watts max that will pass through. You really want to plan to not exceed the inverter in order to be successful.
Quote from menu item 14 - "If this off grid solar inverter is working in Battery mode or Power saving mode, only solar energy can charge battery. Solar energy will charge battery if it's available and sufficient." Am I missing something here?
So many misunderstandings in this video. Anyone watching this don't go by this information. Bonding refers to the neutral wire coming from the inverter or power pole being connected to the earth ground(that ground rod by your main panel) inside of your main circuit panel. When they are terminated together in your main panel, which is the only place that they should be connected together, they are whats called "bonded". Bonding has nothing to do with the ground being connected to the chassis of a piece of equipment. That's simply called grounding. Mess up your understanding of bonding and all kinds of destructive things can happen, death being one of them. Fail to bond the neutral correctly and you'll pump 240vac through your 120vac appliances. Also, all your wire gauges are way too small. It's a 12k inverter so the AC input and output lines should be 6awg minimum. Battery cables are too small and you're way under the required amount of battery capacity for that unit. I believe the manual states a minimum of 400ah. Pretty sure you fried your own inverter.
Thank you for the clarification. I'm not sure I understand how a 1500 watt or less load can draw enough amps to require more than the 200 peak amps of the two batteries, any help is appreciated. Also, the manual specified the 8 AWG for service wire and 4/0 for the batteries where I have 2/0, so am I missing something? I just used an old 2011 NEC reference that showed #2/0 Cu conductors can be used at 200 amps. Then figuring maximum load of 1500 watts at 120 volts is only 12.5 amps, even if there was a rush in current of 3x that, I thought I was still OK. It would also be good if you can help me understand why when I Google "Bonding vs Grounding" this is the answer at the top of the list - "Bonding is the connection of non-current-carrying conductive elements like enclosures and structures. Grounding is the attachment of bonded systems to the earth. Both are necessary to safeguard people and property from electric hazards." If that's not right, we need to get it changed.
@@Floridaoff-grid Your talking about the size of wire from the batteries. If you calculate ohms law 12kw at 48V is 480 amps of current at .1 ohm of resistance, it's possible to be able to pull that much power in theory. Assuming he does have enough battery to provide that much power hopefully he has a fuse, or DC breaker that will open up if it ever exceeds the battery to inverter wiring. NEC requires Neutral to ground only be bonded in the main feed panel that is connected directly to the to the meter. I know subpanels have a ground wire, and a neutral wire running all the way back to the main panel where it's bonded.
@@Floridaoff-grid I agree lack of conduit is not good either. IMO should at least make it meet code standards even if you don't ever plan on getting it inspected if it's going inside a home. I don't trust electronics with that kind of power flowing through it. I know someone who's house burned down from an FM radio he left on 24/7 in the garage. After years something dried out, he was out of town 3/4 of his house burned down. Rest of it was wrecked from all the water damage fire department. Insurance covered it because he met the requirements of the policy.
The Growatt low frequency unit that I'm sharing here is NOT able to run parallel. At the moment, I do not know of any Growatt low frequency units that can be parallel. The EG4 120/240 does do parallel configurations.
Don't you worry about homeowner's insurance won't payout if you're not at home and inverter smokes causes a fire. Fire inspector just blame it on non-code installation. I do all kinds of non-permitted electrical work at least I make meet the code.
I used Google for translation - In my experience you are correct (Growatt doesn't have good support). However, they did stand by their warranty and that has value.
Nice work & your video quality is way better this time.
Glad you like the unit.
We've got the same in its crate to use as a future backup or replacement if our 8kwh inverter ever fails. Hope you can get your larger array soon, be nice to see those internal charge controllers loaded up and producing 6000+ watts for you. Do be cautious not to exceed the C.C.s wattage/amperage/voltage ratings tho.
I think 6000 watts is a safe number given clear cold weather/cloud lensing voltage spikes.
I always thought the power saver switch just throttled the inverter down when no loads are present.
From what I've heard and read it's best to leave it off if you have continuous loads on the inverter. I will study up on that a bit more. Yes, I find my gal is always happier with uninterrupted maximum power available to her, lol.
Thank's for the feedback, that's good info. I'm glad you noticed the sound, I was trying out a wireless lapel mic and wasn't sure it would matter to viewers. I'll keep using it.
@@bhunter736 it definitely cuts out the background noise, fans etc.
We're you able to determine weather the cooked mosfets on the 12k were on the inverter circuit or the charge controller circuit ? Hope it's a quick-easy fix for you.
Great Video! Thanks for sharing your setup!
Hope it helps.
Thanks for making this video. Can you make more videos later going into more detail about your system thanks.
Yes I will
Hi Brad, thanks for the video! I'm looking to do the exact same, but dreading the pulley system. Might leave it on a moving cart for now, but hoping your pulley video will inspire me. Question How much battery kWh capacity do you typically burn through overnight? (between sunset and sunrise). I noticed you have quite a lot of battery capacity, but wondering if I could start with much less. Thanks again
The overnight draw depends on my AC needs. For me to cycle down to 30% and then back to full, the heat of the day can't exceed about 85 degrees. This makes the AC only run a couple times overnight and collectively with other evening loads amounts to about 14kWh.
Far as I know: Bonding refers to connection between neutral and ground. Earthing means grounding. If there is a grounding point on the casing of the inverter it needs connected to ground because there is no other way to ensure a short path to ground. If you install a fuse on the casing grounding line and a short occurs, then the fuse will blow and the case will remain energized therefore hazardous: not a good idea. I just ordered the inverter and don’t remember to have noticed a grounding point on the casing. If there was none it meant that the casing is already grounded internally.
I am working on a similar setup. I want to mostly go off grid but still maintain utility power. The 12k inverter is wired similar to yours. The AC input from the main panel to inverter, hot1, hot2. I have a ground from main panel ground to inverter ground, as stated in the manual. You have the input inverter ground going straight to the case ground. It seems like your grounding the inverter to itself. Being an input ground, I was not sure that is part of the internal ground/neutral bond of the inverter. I have an off grid sub-panel. I am unsure how to ground this. If the AC input was not hooked up, it would make sense to have a separate ground rod for this off grid panel. But with the ground/neutral bond in the inverter and the AC input there to use if I am unable to charge the batteries due to lack of solar, would having another ground rod create a group loop? Should I take the AC input ground and run it directly to the off grid panel, then to its own ground rod? This is very confusing. BTW, I mounted a hoist to the wall to lift the inverter. Once install, I left it there for future issues. It was cheap enough and I was able to do the work by myself.
The case needs grounded, so all of my Earth grounds were collected at that one point for visibility. The correct way to do it would be inside the sub-panel. When the unit is supplying power to the sub-panel, the tie to the utility is broken, so the separate ground rod is recommended to ensure a clear traceable path. When the utility is engaged, I do have two ground rods but it is still not a loop. However, I do create potential having two grounds for energy to travel between the sub-panel and main-panel ground lines. That is not really the best case, but the tracing of the problem in my case would only be a matter of inches due to my arrangement so I'm comfortable with that. There are some creative ideas on setting up a separate ground relay switch to fully isolate this condition. My setup also leaves several circuits on the utility full time, so when my inverter is running I don't want any chance that there is a cross back path anywhere other than the dirt outside. This is a very confusing subject as so many things connect together under the heading of ground. If you are unsure, I recommend getting a professional opinion for your specific setup.
Study the NEC codes or take some classes online on electrical and solar. These things can kill you don't know what you're doing. If you build it to code, you know it's safe. Don't want to worry about it when you're not home.
I want to power everything in my house besides the central air conditioner. How can that be done? I have 8 batteries and over 7000 watts of solar panels, how would you do it?
That's a fairly complicated question. The simple answer is to have an electrician actually look at what you have, panel types, etc and then to perform the tie-in portion of the work. Aside from that, I feel like a 6Kw inverter isn't quite enough to run an average home, even without the central AC. I have a spreadsheet that kind of breaks down how to calculate it all. I'm going to add the link in the description of this video above. For my wife, daughter and myself, the concern is that things like the toaster oven, microwave, hair dryer, vacuum, and others have potential to all run at the same time when we have overnight visitors. In that case, a momentary load could get up to 10 Kilowatts for a short time, but definitely more than the few seconds of overload that a 6Kw machine can typically handle. In my case, to reach a confidence level that running some group of these items at the same time isn't going to result in a self made power outage, I believe I need a 12Kw inverter and batteries to support it.
Had good luck with mine. Needed more solar charger. Switch to Sol-Ark
Maybe someday I'll do the same. For now I've actually switched to the EG4 6000ex.
Looks like you have 2 N-G bonding: 1 main utility box and 2nd in inverter. When there's short circuit, breakers should sense or trigger shut off from sudden increase of current. Breakers respond to heat softening tension to flip & disconnect Current always go back to power source but with 2 bonds the current flow in circles not reaching breaker. Here i see 2 sources: inverter's autotransformer and grid's transformer. Are the AC wires 8awg? Looks 10 awg from here.
All AC are 8awg and battery cables are 2/0. Because this unit is off grid when running, there is only one N-G bond at a time.
Hi. Great vid. Thanks for creating this. I have a question. I'm looking at this inverter and I want to put 6000 watts of solar pv in. Let's say I need 12kw instantaneously, will it share that load with the utility or is it an either/or scenario?
Thanks
Load is never shared with the utility with this unit. The panels and batteries will have combined power available. I would recommend a different thought process with the off-grid variety, think of them as battery powered inverters with the ability to charge from solar or utility.
@@bhunter736 hey thanks for that info!
Only thing i don't like with User battery setting in the the shine app its always shows 100% battery which is not accurate .
Please advise if you know how to get rid of this issue
Hi dear thanks for video
Is 7 awg battery cable is enough ?
Unfortunately, I don't have enough information to answer the question. The size requirement is different for PV panel wire, AC tie-in wire, and battery connection wire. The best thing to do is refer to the manual for your inverter and consult a professional.
So do you use a separate neutral conductor and grounding rod for that Inverter powered subpanel? If not then you can have two bonding locations, one for utility and one for the inverter and there is a chance you overload the inverter when the unit is in bypass mode (batteries can only be charged from utility while in bypass) due to possible imbalance of neutral to the two phases from the utility supply
I do have a separate grounding rod for the inverter and its subpanel. I also do not charge from utility, I keep the unit set for solar only charging.
HOWdy BH736, ...
Thanks
I have a similar SPF 6000T DVM-MPV --- Growatt set-up in a HYBRID configuration ...
COOP
the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA
...
I hope it all works to your plan.
If you exceed the 12k output from inverter, let's say you have everything in the house running and you need 15k of power does the grid kick in and give you additional 3k to help out? Thats one feature I'm looking for. (maybe you can test that?) thanks
I'm cheating and doing a copy paste for part of this answer - 'Load is never shared with the utility with this unit. The panels and batteries will have combined power available. I would recommend a different thought process with the off-grid variety, think of them as battery powered inverters with the ability to charge from solar or utility.' - And to answer your question, no it will not supplement from the grid, only switch back to it. The limit accepted from the grid is a 40A circuit feed, so that's only about 9600 watts max that will pass through. You really want to plan to not exceed the inverter in order to be successful.
is this inverter communicated with the lithium battery? thanks
This unit was communicating with the LiFePo4 battery. I was making use of the USE2 programmable option with the Signature Solar recommended settings.
Cool I have the 8k version. You may want to read up on power saving mode in your manual.
Quote from menu item 14 - "If this off grid solar inverter is working in Battery mode or Power saving mode, only solar energy can charge battery. Solar energy will charge battery if it's available and sufficient." Am I missing something here?
So many misunderstandings in this video. Anyone watching this don't go by this information. Bonding refers to the neutral wire coming from the inverter or power pole being connected to the earth ground(that ground rod by your main panel) inside of your main circuit panel. When they are terminated together in your main panel, which is the only place that they should be connected together, they are whats called "bonded". Bonding has nothing to do with the ground being connected to the chassis of a piece of equipment. That's simply called grounding. Mess up your understanding of bonding and all kinds of destructive things can happen, death being one of them. Fail to bond the neutral correctly and you'll pump 240vac through your 120vac appliances. Also, all your wire gauges are way too small. It's a 12k inverter so the AC input and output lines should be 6awg minimum. Battery cables are too small and you're way under the required amount of battery capacity for that unit. I believe the manual states a minimum of 400ah. Pretty sure you fried your own inverter.
Thank you for the clarification. I'm not sure I understand how a 1500 watt or less load can draw enough amps to require more than the 200 peak amps of the two batteries, any help is appreciated. Also, the manual specified the 8 AWG for service wire and 4/0 for the batteries where I have 2/0, so am I missing something? I just used an old 2011 NEC reference that showed #2/0 Cu conductors can be used at 200 amps. Then figuring maximum load of 1500 watts at 120 volts is only 12.5 amps, even if there was a rush in current of 3x that, I thought I was still OK. It would also be good if you can help me understand why when I Google "Bonding vs Grounding" this is the answer at the top of the list - "Bonding is the connection of non-current-carrying conductive elements like enclosures and structures. Grounding is the attachment of bonded systems to the earth. Both are necessary to safeguard people and property from electric hazards." If that's not right, we need to get it changed.
@@Floridaoff-grid Your talking about the size of wire from the batteries. If you calculate ohms law 12kw at 48V is 480 amps of current at .1 ohm of resistance, it's possible to be able to pull that much power in theory. Assuming he does have enough battery to provide that much power hopefully he has a fuse, or DC breaker that will open up if it ever exceeds the battery to inverter wiring. NEC requires Neutral to ground only be bonded in the main feed panel that is connected directly to the to the meter. I know subpanels have a ground wire, and a neutral wire running all the way back to the main panel where it's bonded.
@@Floridaoff-grid I agree lack of conduit is not good either. IMO should at least make it meet code standards even if you don't ever plan on getting it inspected if it's going inside a home. I don't trust electronics with that kind of power flowing through it. I know someone who's house burned down from an FM radio he left on 24/7 in the garage. After years something dried out, he was out of town 3/4 of his house burned down. Rest of it was wrecked from all the water damage fire department. Insurance covered it because he met the requirements of the policy.
Can these inverters/chargers be double up in parallel to increase power output? I have to charge 2 EVs at 50amp
The Growatt low frequency unit that I'm sharing here is NOT able to run parallel. At the moment, I do not know of any Growatt low frequency units that can be parallel. The EG4 120/240 does do parallel configurations.
Don't you worry about homeowner's insurance won't payout if you're not at home and inverter smokes causes a fire. Fire inspector just blame it on non-code installation. I do all kinds of non-permitted electrical work at least I make meet the code.
This isn't a permanent installation yet. I appreciate your comment, thanks.
PS: what did you replace the 12k growatt with? (after it died)
So far, an EG4EX6000 which has a large transformer in it. This model can run multiple units in parallel, so I'll be adding another one eventually.
It is a very loud machine though !
A GROWATT NÃO DÁ ASSISTÊNCIA AOS SEUS CLIENTES.
I used Google for translation - In my experience you are correct (Growatt doesn't have good support). However, they did stand by their warranty and that has value.