I have been collecting Warrens and Sagers for a few years and have learnt a bit along the way and still have a lot to learn. I think that 1917 is in amazing condition and I think you will find the one that just has just SAGER on it is from Canada Warren line. The last one is a Warren not a Sager and it is not N33 but W for Warren and the 33 is for 1933. I've watched all your axe videos and you like the same stuff that I do. Thanks for uploading the Axe videos and keep them coming.
I went crazy on eBay myself before I learned what to look for. I'm sure I made mistakes but it is easy to see what the experts look for. Don't be obsessed about a little pitting or light chipping, but beware of mashed eyes etc. It's amazing how people can abuse axes. I am equally astonished by how nicely many of the bits are cared for, especially Sagers etc. even if they were neglected for decades. The old life and beauty can be brought back. Thanks.
Still plenty Sagers available. If you want to pay a little more there always for sale on eBay (usually $50-$150). I think I have about 50 now. Just added two of the Holy Grail axes. A mint condition Puget Sound Sager Chemical 1930 and a lightly used Kelly Black Raven. Those both set me back a couple hundred each but if you just want a good user you can still pick them up for around $50. If you ever see a used one at the flea market/garage sale for under $30, get it. There's only so many of them out there and they're going to keep going up in value.
It sounds like you have a nice collection.I haven't kept up with ebay axe prices since I have plenty. I wouldn't mind a Sager Cruiser but those were going for more than I wanted to pay and not seen too often. I buy any nice vintage axes at flea markets or garage sales if it's less than $10 but I don't like mushrooming on the poll or a lot of wear. Those are getting hard to find.
Thanks for the comment. Yes they are Filson double tin oil-finish. That's why they are dirty, you are not supposed to wash them. I love them, especially in the fall.
Your killing me!!!!! WOW WHAT A FIND!! Pays to look. There are always treasures out there to find. I don't yet have a sager in my fold, but some day I will.
Mindokwin I am going to start picking locally here in SE Tennessee. Not the grand tradition of where I grew up in Washington State but I might get lucky. Lots of logging history here and in N Georgia.
Still plenty Sagers available. If you want to pay a little more there always for sale on eBay ( $50-$150). I think I have about 50 now. Just added two of the Holy Grail axes. A mint condition Puget Sound Sager Chemical 1930 and a lightly used Kelly Black Raven. Those both set me back a couple hundred each.
Great axes. Sagers are always great. Gotta mention though, my favorite splitter is an AmericanAx double bit. Split 4 cords with it last year. Something about the weight and shape work really well for me personally
You found a good one it sounds like. Those AmericanAx axes were nice. I have a single bit that is one of my favorites. It looks beautiful too with interesting sculpted convex cheeks.
Hi, watching these double bit ax go me interested in a double bit hatchet, it just makes sence for me to have a chopping bit and a splitting bit, I don't need to do big jobs so a compact seemed to be in order, I searched alot on forums and videos, I finally pulled the trigger in a 2Hawks Double Bit Hatchet that is made similar to the Nessmuk specification, my knives vary from different manufactor's and sizes and the type of carry from one knife-4 knife carry it just all depends on the seriousness to lenght of a trip, but most recent I've been enjoying a nice cup of coffee on a open fire and sometimes a nice baked potato to booth, I got pretty used to my Rodent 7 which I paired off with my Rodent 4 both have choil's and are very versital, in the winter in my area daylight goes pretty fast so I started using a saw to get things done quicker, then the double bit hatchet became part of the set up, with the warmer weather the hot cup of coffee and a baked potato is still a treat for me, now I scout the area for fatwood too, so I lightened up sgain, I ordered a Rodent 6 but I had it thinned down and the top gaurd taken off and now it look's like a beefy Ratmandu on steriods, but it's still a pretty robust knife that is a much better slicer, if I need still a smaller knife which most of the time I don't especially with my 3 blade Camillus Silver Sword Canoe I can get by very well although I can pair it off with my Rodent Solution which is a Lil Tank, anyhow it's these videos that gave me the idea and I'm sort of grateful for that, Spring is finally here and through it all I got some good tool's to enjoy it, all of my Spring Tool's are what I consider compact and easy to carry especially with my Backpack which I molle carry all of them except for my larger knife that stays on person, it amazes me why more people don't get into the Double Bit Hatchet's as much the advantage is better IMO, and especially my 2Hawks it's a very lite hatchet, infact it look's like a children's hatchet but it's defenetly not a toy, it's a great tool, Thanx for sharing your Double Bits they certainly look like their good ones and it seems your very happy with them, but for what I do mine is just right, compact but they get the job done, by the way my saw is the Wicked Tough Saw made by Wicked Tree Gear it's a good one I got the combo though and no regrets.
I do have a small double bit made by Collins. It's nice but sometimes I miss the poll for pounding when I use it. It sounds like you have a good system going. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the info. Yes,I've been told that but the 1917 is a 2-piece lamination done by the overcoat method. I'm not sure of the others. I've seen confirmation in an old Warren axe and tool catalog where they describe the 2-piece method used in the manufacture of their axes. (not the 1937 catalog). I can't find it online in a quick look. See Klenman's's Axe Makers of North America. for a picture of this process. The method was used well into the 20th century.
I love the double bits. we never saw them here in Australia. I an wanting to get get Buckin Billy Ray Smith in Canada bc, to build me a custom handled double bit, not sure what style as yet , but he also loves his sagars ( has his own y/tube channel , which is highly, highly recommend) thx for the video lovely axes mate 😎🖒
I agree, but some people pop the wood by twisting the axe when it hits the wood. That only works in straight grain knot free wood. I use a maul for splitting. Thanks for watching.
Mindokwin - Yep ... I use a maul - wedges and cheat using a hydraulic splitter . You have some sweet looking double bits .Thanks for your reply and all the best to YOU .
I always use a double bit sager for splitting even in knotty wood. It's all about speed, power and I pop it a little sideways at the end of the stroke. Sometimes it takes a couple hits but it's a lot more fun. I usually split first thing in the morning and it's basically my daily exercise. You get the blood flowing and by the time you're done splitting for half an hour, your properly woke up and ready for breakfast.
I have a bunch of Sager chemical axes from the the 30-40’s, I have hung three double bit Chemicals this week! Lol it’s a sickness!! Lol. My wife asks me what are you gonna do with all those axes!
Mindokwin I'm not an axe expert, but I'll hazard a guess that those markings indicate a British [Pre-war Canadian] provenance. The Broad Arrow is a British Gov't property mark since old Saxon days. It's from the rune of Tyr, the Saxon god of War. Still in use.
@@HootOwl513 agreed, its the MOD stamp used on military equipment and tools, often called the broad arrow as you say, and sometimes crows foot too. I would put money on FS standing for Forestry Service, though that has never been a government department in the UK - the Forestry Commission was formed in 1919 and that was, and is the department that deals with all things forestry here, though recently that has changed with Welsh and Scottish devolution in the last few years. Great video!
Very nice axes! What camera do you film with? When you do a close up, the background starts to "float" and the image is crystal clear! Is the video in 4K?
nice video man, very good job. I just have a 3.5lb double bit True Value axe. I am definitely looking to upgrade soon. Thanks for the video; you got my sub
I like the woods too, and I'm not so young myself. I don't know who made your axe. There were hundreds of axe companies throughout North America in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Also it could be part a name of an individual blacksmith or town.
Nice, I have a Sager Chemical dbl. bit from 1931 in real good shape. got for $ 4.00. I like the way you show the heads carefully so us aficionado's can i.d. the axe. The head I'm curious about just says W 45 on it, and it looks pretty well used but in good shape?
Love the vintage axes. I got my hands on one that has W with 48 under it and on the other side it looks like 2 fangs and ideas on the brand ? Somebody said Warren but I cant find a stamp that even looks close ....
Not sure but if there are ridges in the eye it might be a True Temper. They sometimes had a letter and number stamp. All I've seen had ridges in the eye too.
Those aren't "lamination lines"...they're temper lines. The darker steel of the bit were quenched to harden them while leaving the eye area relatively soft.
Thanks for the reply...I don't believe there was any lamination of different steel...what Sager did was to dip the steel into a chemical solution then hammer the steel impregnating it with the chemical. Then they would heat the steel to quenching temp and quench it in the same chemical...producing a very durable surface that was more impervious to oxidation. www.yesteryearstools.com/Yesteryears%20Tools/Sager%20and%20Chemical%20Axes.html Thanks for the video...those are some beauties!!!
Sure that was the patented Chemical process. Look at a youtube video called "Pioneer Axe" filmed in 1964 just before the Emerson & Stevens axe factory closed. It shows the process of lamination by the overcoat method used up to the early 20th century. They were the last but most axe companies used the process up to the 1930's. On some old axes you can see the line between the different axe steels as well as the temper line. Thanks for the info.
Ah...I see what you're talking about...thanks for the video recommendation. I've never seen the mild steel/tool steel lamination line on an axe before. I've got a couple of Japanese kitchen knives where you can definitely see the lamination line. However...the dark lines that you're pointing at in the video I believe are the temper lines from the quench. (4:53) I think any visible lamination lines would be much closer to the cutting edge where you grind through the mild steel to expose the core tool steel. Anyway...thanks for the discussion...and of course the videos.
Yes you are probably correct. It is well worth looking for the lamination line in old axes. I think of those as a bonus as you would have to pay hundreds of dollars to have one made like that today.
I"m an old timer who loves to be in the woods and have found many old tools and Native and Native American artifacts. I found a double bit ax some years ago and it is very rusty and pitted. I can only see the end of a name, possibly, ending in "SEN" and the numbers under it of "_ 805". The _ I believe was a "1" because of the area around it and what these old eyes can vision a 1 being there. Any idea of what the name of a possible manufacture that would end in SEN?
@@DrGurple Oh those someone hammered on the side with something sharp. Or used the side of the axe to hammer something sharp. The steel in the center is a lot softer than the bit. Only the edges on these older axes are hardened or tempered. So if someone used the side as a hammer it gets dented.
@@Mindokwin I have seen that arrow, called a "broad arrow", on government items from the British Empire, such as UK, Australia, India, and Canada. I'm guessing Canadian Forest Service. To me, that suggests it was government issued and has its original haft. All four are very desirable! T-A
I have a liking for sager and do most my splitting with it , great axe pal
The imperfections and pitting is what makes an axe beautiful. I love my old Plumb Victory, double bit. 4 3/4 lb head, such a wonderful splitting axe.
Ones that big are not too common. I bet it's a good splitter.
My neighbor gave me one I just put a handle on it and tried to split elm
I have been collecting Warrens and Sagers for a few years and have learnt a bit along the way and still have a lot to learn. I think that 1917 is in amazing condition and I think you will find the one that just has just SAGER on it is from Canada Warren line. The last one is a Warren not a Sager and it is not N33 but W for Warren and the 33 is for 1933. I've watched all your axe videos and you like the same stuff that I do. Thanks for uploading the Axe videos and keep them coming.
+Sager1947 Thanks for the information. I didn't know that about the year. Thanks for watching too.
Love How you’ve left those old gems with their original Handles/patina 👍🇺🇸
The blueing on the Sager came from the chemical tempering, you have some jewels.
I went crazy on eBay myself before I learned what to look for. I'm sure I made mistakes but it is easy to see what the experts look for. Don't be obsessed about a little pitting or light chipping, but beware of mashed eyes etc. It's amazing how people can abuse axes. I am equally astonished by how nicely many of the bits are cared for, especially Sagers etc. even if they were neglected for decades. The old life and beauty can be brought back. Thanks.
I agree. Thanks for watching and good luck searching for nice old axes.
Just bought a Sager Swamper DB in beautiful condition. Now my Plumb DB won't be lonely. You have a beautiful collection there. Just subscribed.
Thanks,. Those Sager swampers are very hard to find. Nice score.
I found a 1941 sager chemical double bit for 25 dollars at an antique store. Needless to say I snatched it right up
+Jacob Rybloom That's a good find on a fine axe.
Still plenty Sagers available. If you want to pay a little more there always for sale on eBay (usually $50-$150). I think I have about 50 now. Just added two of the Holy Grail axes. A mint condition Puget Sound Sager Chemical 1930 and a lightly used Kelly Black Raven. Those both set me back a couple hundred each but if you just want a good user you can still pick them up for around $50. If you ever see a used one at the flea market/garage sale for under $30, get it. There's only so many of them out there and they're going to keep going up in value.
It sounds like you have a nice collection.I haven't kept up with ebay axe prices since I have plenty. I wouldn't mind a Sager Cruiser but those were going for more than I wanted to pay and not seen too often. I buy any nice vintage axes at flea markets or garage sales if it's less than $10 but I don't like mushrooming on the poll or a lot of wear. Those are getting hard to find.
Thanks for the comment. Yes they are Filson double tin oil-finish. That's why they are dirty, you are not supposed to wash them. I love them, especially in the fall.
I almost wept when you brought out the 1917!! The stories it could tell.....
Thanks for sharing these treasures.
Don't cry when I tell you I bought it at a garage sale for $5! I hope we make it to 100. Thanks.
Your killing me!!!!! WOW WHAT A FIND!! Pays to look. There are always treasures out there to find. I don't yet have a sager in my fold, but some day I will.
Mindokwin
I am going to start picking locally here in SE Tennessee. Not the grand tradition of where I grew up in Washington State but I might get lucky. Lots of logging history here and in N Georgia.
Still plenty Sagers available. If you want to pay a little more there always for sale on eBay ( $50-$150). I think I have about 50 now. Just added two of the Holy Grail axes. A mint condition Puget Sound Sager Chemical 1930 and a lightly used Kelly Black Raven. Those both set me back a couple hundred each.
On a side note. You’ve got great clothes. I too wear lots of wool here in Nh and those look like tin cloth pants another fine staple
I have that Kelly Cruiser. Nice piece.
+Damn Yankee Thanks they are getting hard to find.
Great axes. Sagers are always great. Gotta mention though, my favorite splitter is an AmericanAx double bit. Split 4 cords with it last year. Something about the weight and shape work really well for me personally
You found a good one it sounds like. Those AmericanAx axes were nice. I have a single bit that is one of my favorites. It looks beautiful too with interesting sculpted convex cheeks.
Hi, watching these double bit ax go me interested in a double bit hatchet, it just makes sence for me to have a chopping bit and a splitting bit, I don't need to do big jobs so a compact seemed to be in order, I searched alot on forums and videos, I finally pulled the trigger in a 2Hawks Double Bit Hatchet that is made similar to the Nessmuk specification, my knives vary from different manufactor's and sizes and the type of carry from one knife-4 knife carry it just all depends on the seriousness to lenght of a trip, but most recent I've been enjoying a nice cup of coffee on a open fire and sometimes a nice baked potato to booth, I got pretty used to my Rodent 7 which I paired off with my Rodent 4 both have choil's and are very versital, in the winter in my area daylight goes pretty fast so I started using a saw to get things done quicker, then the double bit hatchet became part of the set up, with the warmer weather the hot cup of coffee and a baked potato is still a treat for me, now I scout the area for fatwood too, so I lightened up sgain, I ordered a Rodent 6 but I had it thinned down and the top gaurd taken off and now it look's like a beefy Ratmandu on steriods, but it's still a pretty robust knife that is a much better slicer, if I need still a smaller knife which most of the time I don't especially with my 3 blade Camillus Silver Sword Canoe I can get by very well although I can pair it off with my Rodent Solution which is a Lil Tank, anyhow it's these videos that gave me the idea and I'm sort of grateful for that, Spring is finally here and through it all I got some good tool's to enjoy it, all of my Spring Tool's are what I consider compact and easy to carry especially with my Backpack which I molle carry all of them except for my larger knife that stays on person, it amazes me why more people don't get into the Double Bit Hatchet's as much the advantage is better IMO, and especially my 2Hawks it's a very lite hatchet, infact it look's like a children's hatchet but it's defenetly not a toy, it's a great tool, Thanx for sharing your Double Bits they certainly look like their good ones and it seems your very happy with them, but for what I do mine is just right, compact but they get the job done, by the way my saw is the Wicked Tough Saw made by Wicked Tree Gear it's a good one I got the combo though and no regrets.
I do have a small double bit made by Collins. It's nice but sometimes I miss the poll for pounding when I use it. It sounds like you have a good system going. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the info. Yes,I've been told that but the 1917 is a 2-piece lamination done by the overcoat method. I'm not sure of the others. I've seen confirmation in an old Warren axe and tool catalog where they describe the 2-piece method used in the manufacture of their axes. (not the 1937 catalog). I can't find it online in a quick look. See Klenman's's Axe Makers of North America. for a picture of this process. The method was used well into the 20th century.
My old plumb double bit has two profiles. The thicker side is an excellent splitter
Often the old timers would profile them that way just for that reason. One side for cutting and the other for splitting.
I agree with the 2.5 to 3 lb double bit being a nice size. It is good to delimb a downed tree.
I love the double bits. we never saw them here in Australia. I an wanting to get get Buckin Billy Ray Smith in Canada bc, to build me a custom handled double bit, not sure what style as yet , but he also loves his sagars ( has his own y/tube channel , which is highly, highly recommend) thx for the video lovely axes mate 😎🖒
I love the Tasmanian axes you guys have down there. Thanks for the channel recommendation and for watching. Good luck with getting a double bit.
Billy does make some beautiful axes
Decent for felling and lousy for splitting , BUT your video is appreciated .
I agree, but some people pop the wood by twisting the axe when it hits the wood. That only works in straight grain knot free wood. I use a maul for splitting. Thanks for watching.
Mindokwin - Yep ... I use a maul - wedges and cheat using a hydraulic splitter . You have some sweet looking double bits .Thanks for your reply and all the best to YOU .
I always use a double bit sager for splitting even in knotty wood. It's all about speed, power and I pop it a little sideways at the end of the stroke. Sometimes it takes a couple hits but it's a lot more fun. I usually split first thing in the morning and it's basically my daily exercise. You get the blood flowing and by the time you're done splitting for half an hour, your properly woke up and ready for breakfast.
I have a bunch of Sager chemical axes from the the 30-40’s, I have hung three double bit Chemicals this week! Lol it’s a sickness!! Lol. My wife asks me what are you gonna do with all those axes!
It might be a sickness but think of the joy you get when you find a nice old axe for a few dollars,
I've got over 50 now. Hard to find good axe handles for them.
Long live the axe...!!!
Very nice
Thanks!
Idk if anyone has already pointed this out, but those dark lines on the axe head are the quench lines, not lamination lines.
Another good vid... love the old cruiser.
Thanks for watching, I subbed your channel.
I like that size for camping too.
FS stands for Forestry Service They had the pine tree as their logo
Which Forestry Service? It's not the USFS logo.
Mindokwin I'm not an axe expert, but I'll hazard a guess that those markings indicate a British [Pre-war Canadian] provenance. The Broad Arrow is a British Gov't property mark since old Saxon days. It's from the rune of Tyr, the Saxon god of War. Still in use.
HootOwl513 Interesting, another clue to look into, thanks for that info.
@@HootOwl513 agreed, its the MOD stamp used on military equipment and tools, often called the broad arrow as you say, and sometimes crows foot too. I would put money on FS standing for Forestry Service, though that has never been a government department in the UK - the Forestry Commission was formed in 1919 and that was, and is the department that deals with all things forestry here, though recently that has changed with Welsh and Scottish devolution in the last few years. Great video!
Very nice axes! What camera do you film with? When you do a close up, the background starts to "float" and the image is crystal clear! Is the video in 4K?
nice video man, very good job. I just have a 3.5lb double bit True Value axe. I am definitely looking to upgrade soon. Thanks for the video; you got my sub
Thanks for watching! I checked out a couple of your videos so far. Good job.
thanks ! I will have more videos to come. Feel free to subscribe to my channel!
I like the woods too, and I'm not so young myself. I don't know who made your axe. There were hundreds of axe companies throughout North America in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Also it could be part a name of an individual blacksmith or town.
Nice, I have a Sager Chemical dbl. bit from 1931 in real good shape. got for $ 4.00. I like the way you show the heads carefully so us aficionado's can i.d. the axe. The head I'm curious about just says W 45 on it, and it looks pretty well used but in good shape?
That was a good buy, they are getting hard to find at a decent price. Thanks for watching and the good comment.
Thanks. I like axes.
Love the vintage axes. I got my hands on one that has W with 48 under it and on the other side it looks like 2 fangs and ideas on the brand ? Somebody said Warren but I cant find a stamp that even looks close ....
Not sure but if there are ridges in the eye it might be a True Temper. They sometimes had a letter and number stamp. All I've seen had ridges in the eye too.
@Dave Gutknecht The Flint Edge axes were some of the best.
nice axes.
Nice!
Thanks!
Those aren't "lamination lines"...they're temper lines. The darker steel of the bit were quenched to harden them while leaving the eye area relatively soft.
The 1916 Sager is laminated by the "overcoat" method. The others I believe you are correct.
Thanks for the reply...I don't believe there was any lamination of different steel...what Sager did was to dip the steel into a chemical solution then hammer the steel impregnating it with the chemical. Then they would heat the steel to quenching temp and quench it in the same chemical...producing a very durable surface that was more impervious to oxidation. www.yesteryearstools.com/Yesteryears%20Tools/Sager%20and%20Chemical%20Axes.html
Thanks for the video...those are some beauties!!!
Sure that was the patented Chemical process. Look at a youtube video called "Pioneer Axe" filmed in 1964 just before the Emerson & Stevens axe factory closed. It shows the process of lamination by the overcoat method used up to the early 20th century. They were the last but most axe companies used the process up to the 1930's. On some old axes you can see the line between the different axe steels as well as the temper line. Thanks for the info.
Ah...I see what you're talking about...thanks for the video recommendation. I've never seen the mild steel/tool steel lamination line on an axe before. I've got a couple of Japanese kitchen knives where you can definitely see the lamination line. However...the dark lines that you're pointing at in the video I believe are the temper lines from the quench. (4:53) I think any visible lamination lines would be much closer to the cutting edge where you grind through the mild steel to expose the core tool steel. Anyway...thanks for the discussion...and of course the videos.
Yes you are probably correct. It is well worth looking for the lamination line in old axes. I think of those as a bonus as you would have to pay hundreds of dollars to have one made like that today.
I"m an old timer who loves to be in the woods and have found many old tools and Native and Native American artifacts. I found a double bit ax some years ago and it is very rusty and pitted. I can only see the end of a name, possibly, ending in "SEN" and the numbers under it of "_ 805". The _ I believe was a "1" because of the area around it and what these old eyes can vision a 1 being there. Any idea of what the name of a possible manufacture that would end in SEN?
thank you for sharing
Thank you for watching.
I like your axes, Im a big fan of double bits myself. Tell me something, are those Filson pants your wearing?
beautiful !
Thanks bud!
Great video, btw do you know anything about the (DEMON) by Kelly Works?
Thanks. I don't know but there is a lot of information on axes at the website Yesteryears tools.
Mindokwin thanks
My double bit Sager has the same pits/dents on its side. Do you know what those are from?
I think was rusted and pitted then cleaned up before I got it.
@@Mindokwin as I watched more I saw they were all Sagers😂 and I did a bad job describing it, the marks at 1:36 are what I'm referring too
@@DrGurple Oh those someone hammered on the side with something sharp. Or used the side of the axe to hammer something sharp. The steel in the center is a lot softer than the bit. Only the edges on these older axes are hardened or tempered. So if someone used the side as a hammer it gets dented.
couldn't you copy the old handles design and make a new one for the newer axes ?
Yes. Also you can buy a new handle and slim it down, that's what I usually do. Most new handles sold today are too thick for my taste.
How much do you want for 1917 sager put the price on it now
I'm keeping it for now.
OK respect that you know what you have
F, arrow, and B stand for what ? anyone know ?
thanks Mr.
I don't know. F stands for Forestry maybe? I think the axe came from Canada.
@@Mindokwin I have seen that arrow, called a "broad arrow", on government items from the British Empire, such as UK, Australia, India, and Canada. I'm guessing Canadian Forest Service. To me, that suggests it was government issued and has its original haft. All four are very desirable! T-A
@@coschroe Thanks Colleen for that info. The axe came from Canada so that makes sense.