Doyoung's voice is my favorite voice in kpop for sure. He has everything, his voice is like butter, he has technique, and he's able to make you feel what he sings ❤
taeil's supported Bb4s sound like heaven to me djdjfndjs also it's so fuuny how towards the end it's just taeil and doyoung😭 can't believe people even dare to compare the vocalists from other units to them
What I love about Doyoung is that he already had a fantastic technique even before his debut and during the rookies era. Yet, he kept on improving himself to become the excellent singer that he is now. But I feel like this is not the end of his improvement, and he'll keep on getting better as he ages. He loves singing sooo much, and I find that really admirable 💕
Jaehyun’s tone is one of my favorites in K-pop, it sits perfectly among the other vocals in NCT. I really liked the technique analysis so I can appreciate it even more ❤
Thank you so so so so much for doing this even though you might receive unpleasant comments. 😅 Keep em coming because it's a huge help for us who don't know much and actually want to learn. thank you!!!
@@himi_ Hi there! I'm curious to know more about why you think he may never surpass that particular performance. I have a lot of respect for his talent, and I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter. Thank you!"
@@KbDh129 hi. basically pre-debut doyoung had a very good sense of where to project his voice properly, creating a very strong and forward sound. however, after debuting, doyoung started to adapt to his own style (you can call it stylistic choice for the lack of better word) where despite having a well-developed cord strength and strong breath support, he doesn't try to project his voice properly. this is what makes his sound relatively small and has that "stuck" quality to it. if you compare that specific note 5:00 from his pre debut to the same notes he does after debuting, you can hear the difference. instead of trying to project forward, what doyoung does is sing in a very inward placement and placing his voice at the back of his throat.
@@himi_ thank you for ur kind answer. i have a few more question if you don't mind to answer T^T - Do you think he choose to sing in this style to match NCT127's sound and to create a distinct sound/style from Taeli's? - If Doyoung were to have a chance to release a solo project in the future, do you think he will choose to sing in this style , or do you believe he will develop his singing to create a more proper and forward sound?
to my absolutely ignorant ears, the supported singing makes me think of various types of chocolate while the unsupported makes me think of various types of paint
NCT 127 has so much vocal talent that isn’t able to shine because there are too many members. I actually prefer Dream music better, but am underwhelmed by their vocal line and how thin their voices always sound. I could listen to doyoung and taeil sing all day long.
Just goes to show that the Venn diagram of talent and technique is by no means a circle. People can have a lot of talent but awful technique or really great technique but little natural talent. The very best singers would land in the overlap of technique + talent, but even having both doesn't guarantee a great performance every time (humans aren't perfect, after all). Luckily for NCT, they already have the natural talent, and technique can always be developed given the opportunity, resources, and desire to improve💚
For someone who knows near nothing about vocals and technique, this was an interesting watch! Support and non-support is still incredibly complicated for me and I can absolutely not hear when it's supported or not, so it's always nice to have assistance like this. As someone who's Xiaojun biased it's also really fun to see him along the guys whom I've always thought of as the pillars of NCT's vocals. I'm not sure if it's anything you can answer per se, but would you say Xiaojun has improved since his debut days? I feel like he sounds a little different from their first songs to now, although that might just be my bias😅😂 Great video nonetheless! Hoping people don't come here and turn unnecessarily rude or negative toward you
Since debut? Not sure he sounds the same to me. But if we compare it to his younger days when he used to sing in Chinese shows then yeah there are some considerable improvements. He was a bit bolder in his approach back in the day but also had some tendency to push too much air in his belts past F4. Now, his mix is on the lighter side but is a little bit more refined and can somewhat support up to F#4 and G4 on his better moments
i’m curious what the wishies would be like mostly jaehee because he’s insane!!!! only 3 months of training he has potential to be a great main vocal in the industry, obviously it wouldn’t make sense right now because they’re all still rookies and there isn’t enough songs yet 🙂
The fact that it took until Jaehyun, a lower tenor, to sing a A4, to have the 1st note in the video that is definitely strained, already speaks of A: how good are from Xiaojun and Him to Doyoung and Taeil B: unsupported =/= strained C: while being considerable less developed, the other vocalist are far from bad
@@eddyjacx5622 tbf if sopranos, females, start straining around A4 and higher, but they're able to stay relaxed, I don't see the problem with a Tenor, being a male, with a naturally deeper voice, start straining around F4 but also being able to being relaxed there
@@eddyjacx5622 Are we even sure Jaehyun is a low tenor though (from what OP said). He sounds like a possible medium tenor for me but I’m not too sure. Definetly not a “dramatic”.
@@SoulVelvet I agree. I don't think Jaehyun is a low tenor. He's lower than the likes of Doyoung, Haechan, etc that's for sure since even when he's mixing lightly he still carries more weight than them. But maybe not the same types of like V for example who is a bit heavier imo. He is most likely somewhere in the middle I guess.
I also feel like he's better than his debut self now. In the 2 baddies recording video he sounds better than ever. It was such an upgrade from Favorite and Kick it recordings. Also he's a lot more confident now and seeing him singing is such an unreal experience, especially while he's recording in the studio.
@@egregiousboy for real he’s sounding better than ever! It was painful witnessing his regression period 💔 I guess Sm really kicked his ass in gear after that 😭😂 Next step for him is adding more fullness/roundness to resonate & fully eliminating at times whiny quality, he’s be safe for AA-P easily. Also possibly supporting the head voice register would be a boost
@@egregiousboy even during the time he 'regressed' around 2020-early 2021 era he is already better than his debut self tbh considering his support is getting stronger despite he developed the bad habit. Glad now the bad habit is mostly gone too
@@summernight2752 hmm I don't think I agree with that actually. His belts were open up until G#4 and sometimes even A4 (with some minimal pushing) at the time of his debut but is his regression era, He was getting tense as low as F#4 and was struggling to carry support in his voice in the F#4~G#4 area (and dropped support entirely at A4 actually)
But now that he's out of his regression era, his support on the A4s is back, he's not as pushy anymore and his support even increased and can inconsistently be carried to Bb4. And his voice is quite open in the F#4~A4 region again. So I'd say he's back to his old self, maybe even better than his old self (that's debatable tho)
@@himi_ oh my I’m concerned because there were several “resonant” notes with proper ping throughout this vocal showcase. Please don’t take offense but do you have formal training to make these kind of judgements?
@@K82849 The definition of resonance that Himi is using here is a bit different from the modern pop one. I know exactly what you mean by "ping" but that isn't enough for the classically-derived standard that is being referenced. It has more to do with quality of TA-coorination and vocal tract shaping (pharyngeal opening is the standard) than just overtones.
@@eddyjacx5622 There must be a misunderstanding- “ping” is a classically derived sound quality. It does involve vocal tract shaping through vowel modification and TA coordination (mixed voice). Classically it’s called “squillo” but I listened to the video through again and there were more than a few moments where this quality was present
@@K82849 Squillo is achieved through a very specific formant coupling that results in a harmonic boost around 2-3.5 kHz, which can be checked on a spectrogram. It is exceedingly rare in pop music, not even most legendary singers have ever achieved this very specific sound quality (although some have, namely the old-school belters like Shirley Bassey). The resonance we're talking about here does not require that specific massive harmonic boost. It is a far more permissive standard but still a high threshold nonetheless. I have never heard anyone in NCT ever apply a proper chesty coordination to their belting (Taeil would be the closest and he's still far off). Mixed voice is not the same as TA coordination...mixed voice does not necessarily have to have any sort of proper coordination at all, which is exactly what happens with most of these idols who sing in a very soft, whiney mix. None of them have that requisite TA development, which should result in a very full and metalic sound quality. More importantly, none of them have the quality of vocal tract shaping necessary to achieve that openness in their vowels. They can sing on open vowels but they don't really know how to utilize the body's primary resonating chamber (pharynx) to manipulate that sound into something very rounded and truly open.
it's so rare to find nct vocal stans so i have a lot of questions 😭 firstly who is better between yuta and ten? secondly, i've seen from some people say that haechan can't support any of his notes but your nct vocal ranking says otherwise so is it true? plus, i've also seen some people say chenle supported one or two notes during hello future recording behind (specifically the G4/G#4s) but im not sure if that's correct, could you confirm? lastly, other than jaehyun, who has the best lower range? thank you so much!!
Ten is slightly better. Haechan can somewhat carry support up to Eb4 but is quite shallow. And no, he has never supported above F4. Taeil has the best lows after Jaehyun
This is very interesting! I’ll probably go watch that first analysis. SM is hyped as the vocal powerhouse, yet majority of the NCT’s vocal line have subpar technique? I was kind of hoping with so many members there would be more supported vocalists. I wonder how they stack up to other SM groups, and how SM as a whole compares to other companies? That reputation had to have come from somewhere. Not just branding or people being surprised at high notes in SM songs. I think I have a better understanding now, so thank you very much!
NCT isn't the only group in SM so one group doesn't determine the whole SM, SM as the vocal powerhouse means most of their main vocalists are in the higher rank of vocalists (among well-known idols I would say). The average of skilled vocalists in SM is higher than most of groups that's why they got that reputation. Even though majority of nct don't have good techniques, the members that have decent techniques are still considered as one of the best in their generations.
I think 127 is pretty decent all things considered even if they don't measure up to previous SM groups. They have other strengths too (rapping and dancing) that other sm groups are not as good as so it balances out imo lol. SM, previous to NCT had quite a few powerhouse vocalists. Think of any SM main vocal pre 2013 and they will be good.
fans rlly do tend to hype up the high notes and they also like to refer to the whole group when it’s usually jsut one person or a few ppl that can Actually sing but the reputation is cause sm consistently has skilled main vocalists in all their groups (KRY, Taetiseo, chenbaeksoo, wendy, luna, dojaeil etc) and even tho dojaeil fall a bit short of their seniors in terms of skills, they’re still considerably better than many later 3rd gen and 4th gen main vocalists !
I think it’s because of their capabilities and how even people with Sub-vocalist positions can be on the same level as lead vocalists in other companies
It's actually mostly just the main vocals that made them a powerhouse. But over all though they actually kinda regressed a bit since starting from SES with the exception of Changmin and Jessica every main vocalist in SM are at least Proficient. But still Doyoung and Taeil as AA are still higher than a lot of main vocalists though, but the other NCT main vocalists with the SM standard is kind of a let down imo.
@@Kotsvt Are you also counting tvxq duo? (I'm genuinely asking tho) I don't know how good is changmin righ now, but in the past he was not better than xiaojun if i'm remembering correctly
@@jesusrivera0509 Ohh I actually didn't, with just the two of them they're probably below Wayv but above Dream. But with Junsu and Jaejoong they're definitely up there.
@@hannavang1594 Renjun maybe can't but Chenle, he's performing in stage since he was a child & maybe have a strong technique (considering his predebut background)...
They sing a lot on their channel and stuff. The vocalists never shut up actually. 😅 karaoke, banter, their 7chillin series. They don’t shy away from it. 😊
woah no wonder i always feel like kun sound so weak when singing... but i find it hard to believe so many main vocals in nct could still not sing with proper technique despite undergoing training for years pre-debut + after debuting for 6 years ?? I tot sm is supposedly a vocal powerhouse
I think what most people don't realize is that sm is good at scouting great vocalists but not necessarily have a good vocal training. Majority of the powerhouse vocalists under sm (like chen, baekhyun, d.o, wendy, taeyeon, etc. and even doyoung, taeil) all are good singers even before joining the company
@@himi_ To be fair it’s a 50/50 they were good before with basis, but Sm training improved them a lot after. All those mentioned vocalists moves at least 2 tiers after training lol
@@rere9991 i won't say all of them. Wendy isn't that much different from her pre debut. Neither is Taeil. Doyoung improved a lot but that's also partly cuz he regressed just after debuting. He was already AA pre debut. D.O didn't improve that huge as well
@@himi_ Doyoung was AA pre-debut? Wasn’t he at least A-AA? I mean you can tell his coordination wasn’t as developed as it is now so I mean he did improve from pre-debut, yes he regressed a bit early debut but still (his placement & fullness was better though 💀😭💔) Wendy was a tier lower AA-P so was D.O, Taeyeon AA/AA-P. So even if it feels not a huge jump but they improved and refined their technique. That’s way more than what other companies do vocally (Hybe YG I’m looking at you 👀)
@@rere9991 there is not that many materials for doyoung pre debut but basing on this G#4 here 5:00 that alone is better than any of other Doyoung's G#4. That coordination sounds AA level to me. Even if he is A-AA it still debunks your point them improving 2 tiers XD that is only 1 tier above ksksks
I don’t know a lot about vocals. When you’re showing the clips, are the notes that are not the notes being highlighted (example: a#4) still supported even if it says unsupported on screen (like the rest of the phrase)? Also, when the clips shows a live version of their own song, is the note that’s unsupported usually supported in the take they use for the song I would be listening to on ITunes? I also don’t understand what supported means. Does this mean that the members that aren’t Xiaojun, Doyoung, Jaehyun, and Taeil have never sang a note with support before? Also is there anything else that defines a good singer other than support or is it just support?
Support means engaging with the diaphragm to keep a consistent airflow with no tension or visible strain. No members like Jungwoo does support somewhat consistently bE4/E4 he even supported F4s/F#4s before he's still still shallow/light so his support quality isn't as proper as the 4 mentioned. Haechan too can support but he's shallow & inconsistent Mark too crazy enough lol The reason Himi didn't show supported notes of others was to showcase the difference between those who have proper support and those who don't
@@ajanoraceline4762 XiaoJun fully consistently supports he has no issue with support. Renjun is underdeveloped he came close to supporting shallowly during his number 1 performance but no he he doesn’t support usually. Chenle doesn’t support much either he does better than Renjun sometimes but yea he doesn’t support most of the time. Haechan can support shallowly & the quality of his support is weak but he can support when he’s trying. There’s no support live vs studio if you can do it in studio you can do it live, even on studio tracks you can know if someone is supporting
all EXO's main vocalists can support upto A4 on regular basis without any problem, D.O supports upto Bb4, Chen too sometimes. The gap between EXO's mains and leads are quite huge, it would be unfair to compare their supported and unsupported notes.
F#4 and G4 aren't really that 'hard'. It's like B4 and C5 for soprano. Basically any A-AA tenors and above can handle them pretty fine. Even some Average tenors can support F#4 and G4. Kyuhyun does
@@himi_ oh thanks cause i was literally confused why people tell that G4 and G#4 are hard fro tenor while i am training my self in vocals by classes and i have really hitted G4 4 times i don't know it was ease or supported but i am feeling proud of me
@@Forever_2424Kyuhyun, Park Hyo Shin, Naul, Avery Wilson, David Phelps (he's quite consistent with handling C5/C#5), and Jeffery Lewis have "several" supported C5s as far as I can remember. The great tenors of opera (Corelli, Del Monaco, et al.) could handle C5 as well.
I always thought Chenle was among the better vocalists in NCT because he sounded so open but now I learn that doesn’t even support…has there ever been an instance where he does support? Perhaps recently? Does he support anywhere in the song “Where you are”?
no his vocals have been regressing😬I don’t understand how you thing he sounds open when his mouth is always closed and his voice always sounds extremely nasally and constrained
I don’t know a lot about vocals so I have some questions hehe Does not having support make one a bad vocalist? I see a lot of kpoppies saying support this support that but is it that important?
Support is essentially a correct way of singing without hurting your voice. Otherwise, it can lead to poor habits and straining, which can damage the vocals in the long run. So yeah, it is important for a singer to develop a proper support in order to preserve their voice.
it's important for the reasons that op mentioned. but tbh i feel like most people have been using all these buzz words because they can use it to compare and discredit idols under the pretense of objectivity. without the recent wave of vocal analysis/tierlist videos, they wouldn't even know who's good or bad and frankly would not care. that, or they just want to validate themselves and back up their opinions with "see? they have objectively good technique so im right" when there are many other valid reasons to like a singer. there are many idols that have lacklustre technique but are honest musicians with a passion for singing and performing. they may be doing it wrong, but they're not incapable. some main vocalists may be bad vocalists but they are still valid singers and there is a reason why they're a main vocal and we're at home doing karaoke. there's a reason why the average person needs these videos to tell what's supported and what's not. my personal hot take is that idc if it's bad technique as long as it sounds good. i do wish idols got proper training to protect their voices and yes, bad technique will interfere with how good they sound, especially as they get into the less comfortable parts of their range, but it is not my business. most idols wouldn't survive professional dance either and that's fine because they're not professional dancers. their job is to professionally look and sound good. if you like someone's singing or dancing, just enjoy it and dont overthink it.
He's pretty much on the same level as Haechan on the regular. Haechan at beat might be slightly better, but more or less the same. So he would also fall under the strain category in the video.
@@Oliver-uz1fs I get that but I just mean he's the only one who was in Himi's previous NCT vocal ranking to not be featured here and just found it interesting
Taeil is AA and NN is A-AA Jinni is W-A and Haechan is W That already should give you an answer. Also I don't like comparing male and female vocalists their cords work differently. Pretty sure it has been mentioned numerous times about Karina and Giselle. Even on the sootzubae's community post. Aren't you active there lol? They place Giselle higher
@@himi_ i am active there also but i want reason many people are giving karina B4 very easily and telling Giselle is very weak than karina evern though i tried to explain them that Giselle has more clean approach in Bb4 than karina but they are attacking on me only telling Giselle biased you are downgrading karina like that
@@teamgamer099 I never really listened to sj because their songs never really "captivated" me. But knowing what you said, I'll definitely be looking into their more vocal based songs. Who would you say, out of the three, is the best?
@@himi_ So Haechan, Ten and Yuta would be Weak tier right or is it all of them? When I asked Yeoun they put Renjun on fringe weak while Chenle is not even on fringe weak.
@@Kotsvt Yeah the three of them are around Weak tier. Personally I found Chenle's approach to be a a bit cleaner and more relaxed in general. Renjun can be quite throaty and tensed even in a simple range
@@himi_ I thought Renjun was a little better than Chenle cuz although his approach is lighter and throaty but I think he's got more ease when approaching notes higher than G4 whereas Chenle sounds really shouty. I could be really wrong but it sounds like Renjun is able to navigate the G#4 to Bb4 (and possibly higher) area better than Chenle. Lower than that range, I'd agree that Chenle does a little better in staying cleaner and stronger with his approach. But since they're both weak and most of their songs are in the G4 ~ B4 range, I put Renjun higher.
Well for weaker singers that pretty much have barely any sense of support like Chenle and Renjun, I tend to prioritize how much they can stay relaxed and connected as much as possible in a simple range/their mid range. I don't mind much anything higher than like F4 since they struggle even below that
Haechan’s F#4 and G#4 were properly supported with a narrowed tract and forward placement. His notes tend to get misclassified because of his naturally metallic tone. Other than that most others are pretty accurate. Taeil’s Kick It A4 haunts me in my dreams lol.
his tone isn't naturally "metallic" by any means and that shouldn't be an excuse when someone doesn't support. His placement was definitely not that good when in both notes he raises his larynx and sing through his nose, in result having a nasal and light approach. Compare him with Taemin, who has also a light/metallic tone. Taemin properly supports and has good breath control, by not raising his larynx. Haechan struggles as easy with his larynx as E4s, in which the support is very shallow and making the notes both nasal and throaty. And for the G#4 in particular, you can listen the reverb in it but still he is too nasal
@@meowmeowmeow8949 If you listen to his voice in every range and use, not just singing, it’s clear his natural vocal timbre is nasal and metallic with many high overtones. Taemin and Haechan don’t have similar vocal timbres. A closer comparison would be Michael Jackson. Haechan’s larynx was slightly elevated but he had forward placement, efficient vowels, and diaphragmatic support. He was pushing his voice a bit more than necessary but other than that, he had engaged support. Support can only be observed as an effect in vowel modification, compression level, and placement. All those qualities were present. There was a vein in his neck but this isn’t an efficient way to measure support either bc even diaphragmatic support will lead to visible veins sometimes.
@@K82849 but exactly because of his raised larynx and prominent nasality, he doesn't have a good placement 😭 you can only support shallowly if you raise your larynx and especially when you have weak cord coordination such as Haechan. Also he is literally weak tier, vowels do not matter that much when he has all the other problems. And I doubt that his breath support was from the diaphragm here, if he did he wouldn't raise his larynx or sing nasally. Singing through diaphragm means you sing through a fuller stronger and more free approach. Those notes here have neither.
@@meowmeowmeow8949 His larynx was slightly elevated, as I stated before, which happens naturally. He wasn’t forcing it. Singing with a neutral larynx allows for movement both up and down. You ignored what I said: *Haechan naturally sounds nasal in his vocal tone* . That’s the sound of his instrument overall. He spoke in a vocal based interview before explaining that comments on his voice are “Nasality” when he himself isn’t singing with any, leading him to be confused because he didn’t think that way about his own voice. His placement is spot on. It’s forward placement with a raised soft palate, and he often sings in this resonator. The note was indeed full and forward.
@@K82849 sorry for butting in, but I found some interesting points on your statements. You said that he sang with high larynx, but why you said that he sang with forward placement and raised soft palate? 😭 your statement made me confused because singing with raised soft palate is associated with lowered/neutral larynx and diapraghm engagement, which is the opposite of high larynx and prominent nasality 😅 let me quote this statement from vocal teacher katia losito: Theodore Dimon, in his book “Your Body, Your Voice - the key to Natural Singing and Speaking” on page, 81 and 82, clearly explains how a low or neutral larynx and an open throat, are closely connected with the raised soft palate. On page 82, he clearly explains that when we sing with a lowered soft palate, this is associated with a high larynx and narrow throat. In this condition, the voice also resonates in the nasal cavities, and appears to be forced and shrill due to the raising of the larynx and constriction of the throat. A narrow throat also negatively affects breathing, simply because it prevents its free use. The other way around, a raised soft palate is associated with a lower or neutral larynx and an open throat, and creates optimal conditions at resonance, tonal, muscular and respiratory levels, with great results on the projection and power of the sound. In a nutshell, singing becomes an easy and natural act. See? Your statement is contradictive to each other 😅 I think hc's notes above f4 are throaty, nasal, and lack of proper support.
Thank you for this very educational video! Just wondering (I know it’s difficult to tell because it’s kinda LQ) but is this Haechan demonstrating support? th-cam.com/users/shortsZBHfHunFLuU?feature=share I’m still learning but Doyoung sounds strained here and so does Jaehyun, but was wondering about Haechan
Well it's a C#5. That is unreasonably high for a male to support. Not even the strongest K-Pop vocalist like Kyuhyun can support a mixed C#5 properly. So, none of those are supported, Haechan even more so. He's basically shouting from the throat.
@@himi_ definitely no, he's the only baritone in NCT vocal line, his voice carries a lot of weight, for tenors and full lyric tenors that tought to be baritone have a little weight on their voices that makes them to sing higher range easier
@@kkaebsong1368 No. It's already been debunked multiple times that Jaehyun is a tenor. His voice does not carry that much weight. It's not dense really especially if you compare him to typical baritones like John Park or John Legend. Jaehyun's voice may be less lighter than your usual tenors but he still is a tenor himself. Just listen to how he navigates in the E4~G#4 range. Ain't no baritone would be able to mix that bright and easily for his level. A typical tenor would be sounding really heavy even on Eb4 meanwhile Jaehyun is just fairly soft throughout. His lows are very weak if he's a baritone. He already tries so much to grip properly and maintain a proper larynx below D3, when in fact, a baritone would naturally have ease down to second octave without even trying. His tessitura lies in tenor range through and through. And if you think he does not support G4, you should explain why. He engages there fine. There's no sense of overbearing tension or anything.
@@himi_ ( th-cam.com/video/OviXPrL8-ts/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bc7s1wv8k1KC4kll ) you can hear in B4 part between two Korean singers, Jung Dong Ha a full lyric tenor and FTTS Hwanhee a baritone that tends to sing like tenor
you said raising of the larynx is a sign of no support and this reactor th-cam.com/video/f0eEH3mODX4/w-d-xo.html commented the same thing about haechan at 4:41 but haechan fans seemed to take everything he said as a compliment?? was it subtle criticism from the reactor?
lol yes to me it seems like subtle criticism but they seem to have taken it as a "only he can do it" type of compliment. The guy also said taeil was the best one so he seems to actually know his stuff
Oh yes, it definitely was a subtle criticism. He mentioned Haechans high larynx multiple times and even said that it's not the most ideal or sustainable way to sing. He said that he's surprised that Haechan can reach upper notes with "Seeming" ease despite the larynx position. The last part is what the Stans took as a compliment. They thought he meant that he sings great even with high larynx but what it seemed like Sam meant was that it's surprising that his voice isn't breaking or is struggling too much with the larynx position. Sam definitely knows his stuff and is actually my favorite vocal coach because he states the negatives and the positives of a singers voice while remaining respectful and sweet.
I think you guys are missing where he then went on to say that there’s nothing inherently wrong with singing with a high larynx, it’s just that it’s harder to do. But he said even still he’s not sure how Haechan is managing to sing in higher registers well. He also said that as long it as not hurting and it’s something the artist can do over and over, it isn’t really a problem.
I just went back to it again, the reactor literally said he’s obviously doing it really well and that he’s clearly done it before and does it well. The only “criticism” there was that it’s not something the the majority of vocalists can do easily. So that’s why sunflowers are taking it as praise, cuz he’s basically saying haechan isn’t singing it’s standard technique, and it’s harder the way he’s doing it, and not a lot of people can do it well/without strain or injury.
@@_fullsunzen25 Haechan is still young and benefits from not having to sing live often. If he starts to sing more frequently as he ages, these bad habits will very much catch up with him, especially if they start making him belt more. Note that the dinggo episode didn't even have him singing much above G4 and yet even a contemporary vocal coach like Sam Johnson noted how unnaturally high his larynx position is even in that range. Any serious vocal coach would try to correct his issues if he was their student. Reaction videos aren't the same as actual coaching.
Thank you for making this video! This video is really informative ❤ Btw I want to tell you my story when I first discovered NCT. First I want to say sorry if my thoughts / comments offended you and everyone here, I tried to be respectful with my words 🙏🏻🥺 I used to be a carat around 2017-2020 ish and I always thought that most nct vocalists are subpar to svt vocalists esp DK and seungkwan. I don't really dig DK's technique because his tendency to get nasal but I really like his voice color, and I only knew Doyoung and Jaehyun in NCT on 2017-2018 where they were still around average ish and I remembered I didn't feel particularly impressed with their performances 😭 I am sorry 🥹🥹 I liked jaehyun voice color tho. I just thought seungkwan and dk were the more superior vocalists I was interested in NCT Dream back in 2021 because literally everyone around me liked them 😂 so I checked them out and my first song with them was Hot Sauce, Dive into You and Hello Future. Many people hyped their vocal line skills esp Haechan but I am sorry I am kinda dissapointed because well.....yeah my expectation was kinda high because of the hype *sigh* The thing is, I really dislike vocalists with nasal placement in their singing 😢 that's why I don't really like japanese idol's vocalists, DK is the only exception I guess 😂 but I like his better moments esp his lows, and at least he has nice support in his midrange although he can get nasal and whiny (i think he is better than jaehyun and xiaojun though). That's why I don't really get the hype around haechan because eventhough his vocal color seems to be well liked by many kpop fans, his stylistic style + technique cannot back up many claims of him as one of the best vocalist in kpop as his stans said 😭 So yeah...my impression with NCT vocals just went down hill with dream 😂 but I enjoyed their discography though. Until this day my biases are renjun and jaemin, and I admit renjun has to work hard on improving his technique 😢 Later I found out about nct 127 during sticker comeback and I WAS REALLY SURPRISED. Like surprised with Taeil ( finally I discovered him and I am really happy) and how much Doyoung has improved. Seriously, those two single handedly made up my mind about NCT vocalists 😭😭 I am really grateful I found 127 😔 but for real I sometimes hope they get more bsides like dream's lol because I like their discography more and I am dying to hear taeil and doyoung singing to be there for you 😭 Sorry for my long comment, thank you for making many informative videos about vocals and I hope you will continue making those!
I dont really get you bc if you like Taeil and Doyoung and listen to 127 b-sides you will find them more interesting then Dream's. 127's disco tend to more R'B than just ballad and show their vocal skills a lot. Check out Time Lapse in their latest alb and you'll see. i hope that my comment can help. Also WayV disco is really good too
@@nina.ng1208 hi thank you for your recommendations, I have listened to some of 127's bsides but I still prefer dream songs more 🤔 and I agree with wayv, I don't really listen to them but from what I've heard they have some good songs 😆👍🏻
@@yujikari the reverb and room make it sound clean but if you listen carefully you can hear him squeezing his throat, especially at the end of the note
This is so funny and biased. Are you telling me Haechan (and others that you featured only in the unsupported category) have NO supported notes??? If you wanted to appear fair and unbiased, you would show an unsupported and supported note of each singer to show what they look like on each individual singer. No need to slant your presentation.
If I'm bias then show me Haechan's supported notes. Don't just come here and accuse someone of being biased without anything to back up your claims. Cuz ironically that makes you the funny one here not me lmaooo. I literally said in the beginning of the video that only 4 members in NCT who deloped proper support and Haechan is not one of them so how am I able to showcase his supported notes when there is none to begin with? 💀💀💀 Gurl make it make sense
Jungwoo has a few decent f4s i think but none of the other vocalists can belt a clean E4. So there's no material where they'll have anything above in the supported category
doyoung having the technique even before he debuted a true born singer.. and now he is even better like??!!
That's the reason why Jaehyun is a main vocalist . Ppl need to appreciate his vocals more
Absolutely ❤
Doyoung's voice is my favorite voice in kpop for sure. He has everything, his voice is like butter, he has technique, and he's able to make you feel what he sings ❤
Totally 💖💖
absolutely agree with this!
He needs to improve his tenor voice!😊
taeil's supported Bb4s sound like heaven to me djdjfndjs also it's so fuuny how towards the end it's just taeil and doyoung😭 can't believe people even dare to compare the vocalists from other units to them
@@distanthighway5773 what about now
@@haerinholic waste of talent
@@distanthighway5773 i'm glad Taeil rot in jail now so i can hear more of Doyoung's angelic voice
What I love about Doyoung is that he already had a fantastic technique even before his debut and during the rookies era. Yet, he kept on improving himself to become the excellent singer that he is now. But I feel like this is not the end of his improvement, and he'll keep on getting better as he ages. He loves singing sooo much, and I find that really admirable 💕
6:04 the cleanest note ive heard from taeil
The 127 main vocals >>
Yeah 💚
2:15 Doyoung in his second year of high school~~ He has already sung great~
Ya it really hurt my feelings how Taeil obviously regressed around kick it era but he seems to have gotten better now.
F#4 sounds kinda easy for taeil and doyoung while I feel like everyone else struggles there (but Xiaojun and Jaehyun can still stick the landing)
And that's why Taeil and Doyoung are above everyone else 😚
That comparison between taeil and haechan at 4:28 is like night and day lmao
Lol in the end it's only taeil and doyoung against themselves 🤣😭
Jaehyun’s tone is one of my favorites in K-pop, it sits perfectly among the other vocals in NCT. I really liked the technique analysis so I can appreciate it even more ❤
6:15 gurl he is even doing this sitting down omg
Thank you so so so so much for doing this even though you might receive unpleasant comments. 😅 Keep em coming because it's a huge help for us who don't know much and actually want to learn. thank you!!!
Great video as always 😁😁 That G#4 at 5:00 is never dying lmfao
My guy hasn't topped that yet (will probably never) and I'm never gonna let it go 😤
@@himi_ Hi there! I'm curious to know more about why you think he may never surpass that particular performance. I have a lot of respect for his talent, and I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter. Thank you!"
@@KbDh129 hi. basically pre-debut doyoung had a very good sense of where to project his voice properly, creating a very strong and forward sound. however, after debuting, doyoung started to adapt to his own style (you can call it stylistic choice for the lack of better word) where despite having a well-developed cord strength and strong breath support, he doesn't try to project his voice properly. this is what makes his sound relatively small and has that "stuck" quality to it. if you compare that specific note 5:00 from his pre debut to the same notes he does after debuting, you can hear the difference. instead of trying to project forward, what doyoung does is sing in a very inward placement and placing his voice at the back of his throat.
@@himi_ thank you for ur kind answer. i have a few more question if you don't mind to answer T^T
- Do you think he choose to sing in this style to match NCT127's sound and to create a distinct sound/style from Taeli's?
- If Doyoung were to have a chance to release a solo project in the future, do you think he will choose to sing in this style , or do you believe he will develop his singing to create a more proper and forward sound?
I have commented it before but I have to say it again: as a complete layman I learn so much from these videos. It really helps me to listen more 👍
to my absolutely ignorant ears, the supported singing makes me think of various types of chocolate while the unsupported makes me think of various types of paint
Best comment lol 😂
NCT 127 has so much vocal talent that isn’t able to shine because there are too many members.
I actually prefer Dream music better, but am underwhelmed by their vocal line and how thin their voices always sound.
I could listen to doyoung and taeil sing all day long.
yesss more NCT content ☺️ I love your videos they're very useful because I can understand better with the examples
Just goes to show that the Venn diagram of talent and technique is by no means a circle. People can have a lot of talent but awful technique or really great technique but little natural talent. The very best singers would land in the overlap of technique + talent, but even having both doesn't guarantee a great performance every time (humans aren't perfect, after all). Luckily for NCT, they already have the natural talent, and technique can always be developed given the opportunity, resources, and desire to improve💚
For someone who knows near nothing about vocals and technique, this was an interesting watch! Support and non-support is still incredibly complicated for me and I can absolutely not hear when it's supported or not, so it's always nice to have assistance like this.
As someone who's Xiaojun biased it's also really fun to see him along the guys whom I've always thought of as the pillars of NCT's vocals. I'm not sure if it's anything you can answer per se, but would you say Xiaojun has improved since his debut days? I feel like he sounds a little different from their first songs to now, although that might just be my bias😅😂 Great video nonetheless! Hoping people don't come here and turn unnecessarily rude or negative toward you
Since debut? Not sure he sounds the same to me. But if we compare it to his younger days when he used to sing in Chinese shows then yeah there are some considerable improvements. He was a bit bolder in his approach back in the day but also had some tendency to push too much air in his belts past F4. Now, his mix is on the lighter side but is a little bit more refined and can somewhat support up to F#4 and G4 on his better moments
4:54 Shindong with the “Where the hell is Kyuhyun” face
i’m curious what the wishies would be like mostly jaehee because he’s insane!!!! only 3 months of training he has potential to be a great main vocal in the industry, obviously it wouldn’t make sense right now because they’re all still rookies and there isn’t enough songs yet 🙂
5:00 essa parte sempre me pega kkkkkk a careta do doyoung quando o taeil desafina
How come they hit unsupported notes better than i could hit anything😭
The fact that it took until Jaehyun, a lower tenor, to sing a A4, to have the 1st note in the video that is definitely strained, already speaks of
A: how good are from Xiaojun and Him to Doyoung and Taeil
B: unsupported =/= strained
C: while being considerable less developed, the other vocalist are far from bad
well it would be quite tragic if we had light tenors (with light singing approach at that) straight up straining below A4 😶
@@eddyjacx5622 tbf if sopranos, females, start straining around A4 and higher, but they're able to stay relaxed, I don't see the problem with a Tenor, being a male, with a naturally deeper voice, start straining around F4 but also being able to being relaxed there
@@eddyjacx5622 Are we even sure Jaehyun is a low tenor though (from what OP said).
He sounds like a possible medium tenor for me but I’m not too sure. Definetly not a “dramatic”.
@@SoulVelvet No, I definitely do not consider him a low tenor. He's a slightly lower tenor than very light ones like Doyoung and Haechan.
@@SoulVelvet I agree. I don't think Jaehyun is a low tenor. He's lower than the likes of Doyoung, Haechan, etc that's for sure since even when he's mixing lightly he still carries more weight than them. But maybe not the same types of like V for example who is a bit heavier imo. He is most likely somewhere in the middle I guess.
taeil the backbone of nct, vocal training is a must
That strained A4 from Taeil
I also feel like he's better than his debut self now. In the 2 baddies recording video he sounds better than ever. It was such an upgrade from Favorite and Kick it recordings. Also he's a lot more confident now and seeing him singing is such an unreal experience, especially while he's recording in the studio.
@@egregiousboy for real he’s sounding better than ever! It was painful witnessing his regression period 💔 I guess Sm really kicked his ass in gear after that 😭😂 Next step for him is adding more fullness/roundness to resonate & fully eliminating at times whiny quality, he’s be safe for AA-P easily. Also possibly supporting the head voice register would be a boost
@@egregiousboy even during the time he 'regressed' around 2020-early 2021 era he is already better than his debut self tbh considering his support is getting stronger despite he developed the bad habit. Glad now the bad habit is mostly gone too
@@summernight2752 hmm I don't think I agree with that actually. His belts were open up until G#4 and sometimes even A4 (with some minimal pushing) at the time of his debut but is his regression era, He was getting tense as low as F#4 and was struggling to carry support in his voice in the F#4~G#4 area (and dropped support entirely at A4 actually)
But now that he's out of his regression era, his support on the A4s is back, he's not as pushy anymore and his support even increased and can inconsistently be carried to Bb4. And his voice is quite open in the F#4~A4 region again. So I'd say he's back to his old self, maybe even better than his old self (that's debatable tho)
i love taeil vocals 💓💓💓
This is so interesting thank you for this!!!
The main thing I got from this video is that I still love voices and not techniques
1:23 jaehyun's f4 is sexy but it sounds like relaxed for me.
ow my bad. it's totally supported it's just his voice 😅 I compared it to 2:34 F#4.
Doyoung and Taeil son muy Buenos tienen el nivel más alto.
this is very interesting, thankss
doyoung and taeil might have the better technique but haechan and yuta have my favorite vocal tones in nct 👏🏻
Doyoung and Taeil's Bb4s
Unfortunately no. None of them ever produced resonant notes. The closest we got was probably this G#4 by Doyoung (5:00) and this G#4 by Taeil (5:24)
@@himi_ oh my I’m concerned because there were several “resonant” notes with proper ping throughout this vocal showcase. Please don’t take offense but do you have formal training to make these kind of judgements?
@@K82849 The definition of resonance that Himi is using here is a bit different from the modern pop one. I know exactly what you mean by "ping" but that isn't enough for the classically-derived standard that is being referenced. It has more to do with quality of TA-coorination and vocal tract shaping (pharyngeal opening is the standard) than just overtones.
@@eddyjacx5622 There must be a misunderstanding- “ping” is a classically derived sound quality. It does involve vocal tract shaping through vowel modification and TA coordination (mixed voice). Classically it’s called “squillo” but I listened to the video through again and there were more than a few moments where this quality was present
@@K82849 Squillo is achieved through a very specific formant coupling that results in a harmonic boost around 2-3.5 kHz, which can be checked on a spectrogram. It is exceedingly rare in pop music, not even most legendary singers have ever achieved this very specific sound quality (although some have, namely the old-school belters like Shirley Bassey).
The resonance we're talking about here does not require that specific massive harmonic boost. It is a far more permissive standard but still a high threshold nonetheless. I have never heard anyone in NCT ever apply a proper chesty coordination to their belting (Taeil would be the closest and he's still far off). Mixed voice is not the same as TA coordination...mixed voice does not necessarily have to have any sort of proper coordination at all, which is exactly what happens with most of these idols who sing in a very soft, whiney mix. None of them have that requisite TA development, which should result in a very full and metalic sound quality. More importantly, none of them have the quality of vocal tract shaping necessary to achieve that openness in their vowels. They can sing on open vowels but they don't really know how to utilize the body's primary resonating chamber (pharynx) to manipulate that sound into something very rounded and truly open.
it's so rare to find nct vocal stans so i have a lot of questions 😭 firstly who is better between yuta and ten? secondly, i've seen from some people say that haechan can't support any of his notes but your nct vocal ranking says otherwise so is it true? plus, i've also seen some people say chenle supported one or two notes during hello future recording behind (specifically the G4/G#4s) but im not sure if that's correct, could you confirm? lastly, other than jaehyun, who has the best lower range? thank you so much!!
Ten is slightly better.
Haechan can somewhat carry support up to Eb4 but is quite shallow. And no, he has never supported above F4.
Taeil has the best lows after Jaehyun
@@himi_ is haechan consistent with eb4?
@@fallingsapphires kinda
This is very interesting! I’ll probably go watch that first analysis. SM is hyped as the vocal powerhouse, yet majority of the NCT’s vocal line have subpar technique? I was kind of hoping with so many members there would be more supported vocalists. I wonder how they stack up to other SM groups, and how SM as a whole compares to other companies? That reputation had to have come from somewhere. Not just branding or people being surprised at high notes in SM songs. I think I have a better understanding now, so thank you very much!
NCT isn't the only group in SM so one group doesn't determine the whole SM, SM as the vocal powerhouse means most of their main vocalists are in the higher rank of vocalists (among well-known idols I would say). The average of skilled vocalists in SM is higher than most of groups that's why they got that reputation. Even though majority of nct don't have good techniques, the members that have decent techniques are still considered as one of the best in their generations.
I think 127 is pretty decent all things considered even if they don't measure up to previous SM groups. They have other strengths too (rapping and dancing) that other sm groups are not as good as so it balances out imo lol.
SM, previous to NCT had quite a few powerhouse vocalists. Think of any SM main vocal pre 2013 and they will be good.
fans rlly do tend to hype up the high notes and they also like to refer to the whole group when it’s usually jsut one person or a few ppl that can Actually sing but the reputation is cause sm consistently has skilled main vocalists in all their groups (KRY, Taetiseo, chenbaeksoo, wendy, luna, dojaeil etc) and even tho dojaeil fall a bit short of their seniors in terms of skills, they’re still considerably better than many later 3rd gen and 4th gen main vocalists !
I think it’s because of their capabilities and how even people with Sub-vocalist positions can be on the same level as lead vocalists in other companies
It's actually mostly just the main vocals that made them a powerhouse. But over all though they actually kinda regressed a bit since starting from SES with the exception of Changmin and Jessica every main vocalist in SM are at least Proficient. But still Doyoung and Taeil as AA are still higher than a lot of main vocalists though, but the other NCT main vocalists with the SM standard is kind of a let down imo.
Woah does that mean Dream and WayV are the weakest?
Indeed.
Yes, the good vocalist of NCT are 127 vocal line + Xiaojun
Sadly they are the 2 vocally weakest groups SM ever had
@@Kotsvt Are you also counting tvxq duo? (I'm genuinely asking tho) I don't know how good is changmin righ now, but in the past he was not better than xiaojun if i'm remembering correctly
@@jesusrivera0509 Ohh I actually didn't, with just the two of them they're probably below Wayv but above Dream. But with Junsu and Jaejoong they're definitely up there.
4:08 sounds pretty supported to me. I don’t physically hear strain and he carried the note to the end with a vibrato.
it's not strained but you can physically hear the tension and grittiness quality there. he was relying on his throat a lot.
I can feel pain inhis throat
it sounds to me like some of taeil's bad A4s
Y’all i’m fucking crying dream don’t got one good singer in the group
They are good vocalists, but not top-tier...
@@explorer2958 They Are Not That Good Chenle And Renjun Can’t Support That Good Haechan Is The Only Main Vocalist That Can Support In NCT Dream
@@hannavang1594 Renjun maybe can't but Chenle, he's performing in stage since he was a child & maybe have a strong technique (considering his predebut background)...
Why are there so few videos of the dreamies actually singjng live? 😢
They sing a lot on their channel and stuff. The vocalists never shut up actually. 😅 karaoke, banter, their 7chillin series. They don’t shy away from it. 😊
i love your contents, and if i could ask you a favour, can you do jungwoo vocal showcase next??🤧 thank you❤
woah no wonder i always feel like kun sound so weak when singing... but i find it hard to believe so many main vocals in nct could still not sing with proper technique despite undergoing training for years pre-debut + after debuting for 6 years ?? I tot sm is supposedly a vocal powerhouse
I think what most people don't realize is that sm is good at scouting great vocalists but not necessarily have a good vocal training. Majority of the powerhouse vocalists under sm (like chen, baekhyun, d.o, wendy, taeyeon, etc. and even doyoung, taeil) all are good singers even before joining the company
@@himi_ To be fair it’s a 50/50 they were good before with basis, but Sm training improved them a lot after. All those mentioned vocalists moves at least 2 tiers after training lol
@@rere9991 i won't say all of them. Wendy isn't that much different from her pre debut. Neither is Taeil. Doyoung improved a lot but that's also partly cuz he regressed just after debuting. He was already AA pre debut. D.O didn't improve that huge as well
@@himi_ Doyoung was AA pre-debut? Wasn’t he at least A-AA? I mean you can tell his coordination wasn’t as developed as it is now so I mean he did improve from pre-debut, yes he regressed a bit early debut but still (his placement & fullness was better though 💀😭💔)
Wendy was a tier lower AA-P so was D.O, Taeyeon AA/AA-P. So even if it feels not a huge jump but they improved and refined their technique. That’s way more than what other companies do vocally (Hybe YG I’m looking at you 👀)
@@rere9991 there is not that many materials for doyoung pre debut but basing on this G#4 here 5:00 that alone is better than any of other Doyoung's G#4. That coordination sounds AA level to me. Even if he is A-AA it still debunks your point them improving 2 tiers XD that is only 1 tier above ksksks
I don’t know a lot about vocals. When you’re showing the clips, are the notes that are not the notes being highlighted (example: a#4) still supported even if it says unsupported on screen (like the rest of the phrase)? Also, when the clips shows a live version of their own song, is the note that’s unsupported usually supported in the take they use for the song I would be listening to on ITunes? I also don’t understand what supported means. Does this mean that the members that aren’t Xiaojun, Doyoung, Jaehyun, and Taeil have never sang a note with support before? Also is there anything else that defines a good singer other than support or is it just support?
Support means engaging with the diaphragm to keep a consistent airflow with no tension or visible strain. No members like Jungwoo does support somewhat consistently bE4/E4 he even supported F4s/F#4s before he's still still shallow/light so his support quality isn't as proper as the 4 mentioned. Haechan too can support but he's shallow & inconsistent Mark too crazy enough lol The reason Himi didn't show supported notes of others was to showcase the difference between those who have proper support and those who don't
@@rere9991 would members like Renjun, Chenle or Xiaojun typically have supported vocals in studio versions even if they don’t support live?
@@ajanoraceline4762 XiaoJun fully consistently supports he has no issue with support. Renjun is underdeveloped he came close to supporting shallowly during his number 1 performance but no he he doesn’t support usually. Chenle doesn’t support much either he does better than Renjun sometimes but yea he doesn’t support most of the time. Haechan can support shallowly & the quality of his support is weak but he can support when he’s trying. There’s no support live vs studio if you can do it in studio you can do it live, even on studio tracks you can know if someone is supporting
Where can I find full video of Taeil singing his part of 2 Baddies? Can anyone help me, please?
th-cam.com/video/5oKm99NeFdo/w-d-xo.html
i wish there was an exo ver of this
all EXO's main vocalists can support upto A4 on regular basis without any problem, D.O supports upto Bb4, Chen too sometimes. The gap between EXO's mains and leads are quite huge, it would be unfair to compare their supported and unsupported notes.
@@reenfocus4493 oh let me clarify i was just referring to the big3 😭😭 wasn’t even thinking bout the leads lmao
@@fleurdons3787 You Could Have Say Like This *I Wish There Was An EXO ChenBaeksoo Version Of This*
wat song doel tai sing at 7:10
Love Sign.
Was it intentional to not include Jungwoo’s supported notes from his karaoke performance?
oh how I just love size difference ✨
What size difference 👁👄👁
AMEN TENE LINE!
It was interesting.
But I need to say: Xiaojun is the best!!!
Can anyone tell why F#4 and G4 is hard for tenor and Bb4 hardest it's like C5 and C#5 for soprano does anyone in male vocalist has supported C5
F#4 and G4 aren't really that 'hard'. It's like B4 and C5 for soprano. Basically any A-AA tenors and above can handle them pretty fine. Even some Average tenors can support F#4 and G4.
Kyuhyun does
@@himi_ oh thanks cause i was literally confused why people tell that G4 and G#4 are hard fro tenor while i am training my self in vocals by classes and i have really hitted G4 4 times i don't know it was ease or supported but i am feeling proud of me
@@Forever_2424Kyuhyun, Park Hyo Shin, Naul, Avery Wilson, David Phelps (he's quite consistent with handling C5/C#5), and Jeffery Lewis have "several" supported C5s as far as I can remember. The great tenors of opera (Corelli, Del Monaco, et al.) could handle C5 as well.
@@sonicallymk4552 thanks hey do you know any male vocalist in 4th gen who can support head voice
@@Forever_2424 Kang Hyung Ho from Forestella (non-idol group/vocal quartet).
Taeil Doyoung > Jaehyun Xiaojun > Jungwoo > Haechan > others
Not really Haechan > others, he’s the same level as Ten, Mark and Yuta
@@tenleeso10HC is definitely not the same level with Mark and YT. Lol
Please what’s the title of the song Kun sang at 4:50
At Gwanghwamun by kyuhyun
@@starlight8554 thanks
Suara enak di dengar sih
I always thought Chenle was among the better vocalists in NCT because he sounded so open but now I learn that doesn’t even support…has there ever been an instance where he does support? Perhaps recently? Does he support anywhere in the song “Where you are”?
no his vocals have been regressing😬I don’t understand how you thing he sounds open when his mouth is always closed and his voice always sounds extremely nasally and constrained
First!
pls i need the name of the song of all those songs jaehyun sang 🥹🥹🥹🥹
Call me baby (collab stage)
Lost (solo song)
Amino acid
No longer
Volcano
2:54 what song??
How about Ten???
I don’t know a lot about vocals so I have some questions hehe
Does not having support make one a bad vocalist? I see a lot of kpoppies saying support this support that but is it that important?
Support is essentially a correct way of singing without hurting your voice. Otherwise, it can lead to poor habits and straining, which can damage the vocals in the long run. So yeah, it is important for a singer to develop a proper support in order to preserve their voice.
it's important for the reasons that op mentioned. but tbh i feel like most people have been using all these buzz words because they can use it to compare and discredit idols under the pretense of objectivity. without the recent wave of vocal analysis/tierlist videos, they wouldn't even know who's good or bad and frankly would not care. that, or they just want to validate themselves and back up their opinions with "see? they have objectively good technique so im right" when there are many other valid reasons to like a singer.
there are many idols that have lacklustre technique but are honest musicians with a passion for singing and performing. they may be doing it wrong, but they're not incapable. some main vocalists may be bad vocalists but they are still valid singers and there is a reason why they're a main vocal and we're at home doing karaoke. there's a reason why the average person needs these videos to tell what's supported and what's not.
my personal hot take is that idc if it's bad technique as long as it sounds good. i do wish idols got proper training to protect their voices and yes, bad technique will interfere with how good they sound, especially as they get into the less comfortable parts of their range, but it is not my business. most idols wouldn't survive professional dance either and that's fine because they're not professional dancers. their job is to professionally look and sound good. if you like someone's singing or dancing, just enjoy it and dont overthink it.
Supported you mean controlled?? Unsupported you mean strained or uncontrolled??
Kinda weird Ten was the only one from the vocal line not on here but good job as always
Ten is mostly promoted as a dancer so I get why he gets little extra singing content in comparison (despite being in a similar level as Haechan)
He's pretty much on the same level as Haechan on the regular. Haechan at beat might be slightly better, but more or less the same. So he would also fall under the strain category in the video.
At best**
@@Oliver-uz1fs I get that but I just mean he's the only one who was in Himi's previous NCT vocal ranking to not be featured here and just found it interesting
@@tenleeso10 i didn't mean to leave him out. i just forgot to include him. apologies
No not Taeil
Who is better vocalist
Taeil vs Ning Ning( with reason )
Jinni vs haechan ( with reason )
Karina vs Giselle ( with reason )
Taeil is AA and NN is A-AA
Jinni is W-A and Haechan is W
That already should give you an answer. Also I don't like comparing male and female vocalists their cords work differently.
Pretty sure it has been mentioned numerous times about Karina and Giselle. Even on the sootzubae's community post. Aren't you active there lol? They place Giselle higher
@@himi_ i am active there also but i want reason many people are giving karina B4 very easily and telling Giselle is very weak than karina evern though i tried to explain them that Giselle has more clean approach in Bb4 than karina but they are attacking on me only telling Giselle biased you are downgrading karina like that
Whats song is 4:04 xiaojun
Ashes by Celine Dion
is any of the supported notes here resonant? i really want dotaejae to be as good as kry😭
No unfortunately not
Who is kry?
@@sonia-gs1rl kyuhyun, ryeowook and yesung: sm vocal legends, members of super junior
@@teamgamer099 thank you!!
@@teamgamer099 I never really listened to sj because their songs never really "captivated" me. But knowing what you said, I'll definitely be looking into their more vocal based songs. Who would you say, out of the three, is the best?
Is it Haechan > Yuta > Ten > Renjun > Chenle > Kun?
Haechan > Ten > Yuta > Chenle > Renjun > Kun for me
@@himi_ So Haechan, Ten and Yuta would be Weak tier right or is it all of them? When I asked Yeoun they put Renjun on fringe weak while Chenle is not even on fringe weak.
@@Kotsvt Yeah the three of them are around Weak tier. Personally I found Chenle's approach to be a a bit cleaner and more relaxed in general. Renjun can be quite throaty and tensed even in a simple range
@@himi_ I thought Renjun was a little better than Chenle cuz although his approach is lighter and throaty but I think he's got more ease when approaching notes higher than G4 whereas Chenle sounds really shouty. I could be really wrong but it sounds like Renjun is able to navigate the G#4 to Bb4 (and possibly higher) area better than Chenle. Lower than that range, I'd agree that Chenle does a little better in staying cleaner and stronger with his approach. But since they're both weak and most of their songs are in the G4 ~ B4 range, I put Renjun higher.
Well for weaker singers that pretty much have barely any sense of support like Chenle and Renjun, I tend to prioritize how much they can stay relaxed and connected as much as possible in a simple range/their mid range. I don't mind much anything higher than like F4 since they struggle even below that
Haechan’s F#4 and G#4 were properly supported with a narrowed tract and forward placement. His notes tend to get misclassified because of his naturally metallic tone. Other than that most others are pretty accurate. Taeil’s Kick It A4 haunts me in my dreams lol.
his tone isn't naturally "metallic" by any means and that shouldn't be an excuse when someone doesn't support. His placement was definitely not that good when in both notes he raises his larynx and sing through his nose, in result having a nasal and light approach. Compare him with Taemin, who has also a light/metallic tone. Taemin properly supports and has good breath control, by not raising his larynx. Haechan struggles as easy with his larynx as E4s, in which the support is very shallow and making the notes both nasal and throaty. And for the G#4 in particular, you can listen the reverb in it but still he is too nasal
@@meowmeowmeow8949 If you listen to his voice in every range and use, not just singing, it’s clear his natural vocal timbre is nasal and metallic with many high overtones. Taemin and Haechan don’t have similar vocal timbres. A closer comparison would be Michael Jackson.
Haechan’s larynx was slightly elevated but he had forward placement, efficient vowels, and diaphragmatic support. He was pushing his voice a bit more than necessary but other than that, he had engaged support.
Support can only be observed as an effect in vowel modification, compression level, and placement. All those qualities were present. There was a vein in his neck but this isn’t an efficient way to measure support either bc even diaphragmatic support will lead to visible veins sometimes.
@@K82849 but exactly because of his raised larynx and prominent nasality, he doesn't have a good placement 😭 you can only support shallowly if you raise your larynx and especially when you have weak cord coordination such as Haechan. Also he is literally weak tier, vowels do not matter that much when he has all the other problems. And I doubt that his breath support was from the diaphragm here, if he did he wouldn't raise his larynx or sing nasally. Singing through diaphragm means you sing through a fuller stronger and more free approach. Those notes here have neither.
@@meowmeowmeow8949 His larynx was slightly elevated, as I stated before, which happens naturally. He wasn’t forcing it. Singing with a neutral larynx allows for movement both up and down.
You ignored what I said: *Haechan naturally sounds nasal in his vocal tone* . That’s the sound of his instrument overall. He spoke in a vocal based interview before explaining that comments on his voice are “Nasality” when he himself isn’t singing with any, leading him to be confused because he didn’t think that way about his own voice.
His placement is spot on. It’s forward placement with a raised soft palate, and he often sings in this resonator. The note was indeed full and forward.
@@K82849 sorry for butting in, but I found some interesting points on your statements. You said that he sang with high larynx, but why you said that he sang with forward placement and raised soft palate? 😭 your statement made me confused because singing with raised soft palate is associated with lowered/neutral larynx and diapraghm engagement, which is the opposite of high larynx and prominent nasality 😅
let me quote this statement from vocal teacher katia losito:
Theodore Dimon, in his book “Your Body, Your Voice - the key to Natural Singing and Speaking” on page, 81 and 82, clearly explains how a low or neutral larynx and an open throat, are closely connected with the raised soft palate. On page 82, he clearly explains that when we sing with a lowered soft palate, this is associated with a high larynx and narrow throat. In this condition, the voice also resonates in the nasal cavities, and appears to be forced and shrill due to the raising of the larynx and constriction of the throat. A narrow throat also negatively affects breathing, simply because it prevents its free use. The other way around, a raised soft palate is associated with a lower or neutral larynx and an open throat, and creates optimal conditions at resonance, tonal, muscular and respiratory levels, with great results on the projection and power of the sound. In a nutshell, singing becomes an easy and natural act.
See? Your statement is contradictive to each other 😅 I think hc's notes above f4 are throaty, nasal, and lack of proper support.
Thank you for this very educational video! Just wondering (I know it’s difficult to tell because it’s kinda LQ) but is this Haechan demonstrating support? th-cam.com/users/shortsZBHfHunFLuU?feature=share I’m still learning but Doyoung sounds strained here and so does Jaehyun, but was wondering about Haechan
Well it's a C#5. That is unreasonably high for a male to support. Not even the strongest K-Pop vocalist like Kyuhyun can support a mixed C#5 properly. So, none of those are supported, Haechan even more so. He's basically shouting from the throat.
i don't think that Jaehyun could support G4, he's a baritone, if he do he might be on the same level as Super Junior's Ryeowook
Here's the thing. Jaehyun is not a baritone. He's a tenor
@@himi_ definitely no, he's the only baritone in NCT vocal line, his voice carries a lot of weight, for tenors and full lyric tenors that tought to be baritone have a little weight on their voices that makes them to sing higher range easier
@@kkaebsong1368 No. It's already been debunked multiple times that Jaehyun is a tenor. His voice does not carry that much weight. It's not dense really especially if you compare him to typical baritones like John Park or John Legend. Jaehyun's voice may be less lighter than your usual tenors but he still is a tenor himself. Just listen to how he navigates in the E4~G#4 range. Ain't no baritone would be able to mix that bright and easily for his level. A typical tenor would be sounding really heavy even on Eb4 meanwhile Jaehyun is just fairly soft throughout.
His lows are very weak if he's a baritone. He already tries so much to grip properly and maintain a proper larynx below D3, when in fact, a baritone would naturally have ease down to second octave without even trying.
His tessitura lies in tenor range through and through. And if you think he does not support G4, you should explain why. He engages there fine. There's no sense of overbearing tension or anything.
@@himi_ ( th-cam.com/video/OviXPrL8-ts/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bc7s1wv8k1KC4kll ) you can hear in B4 part between two Korean singers, Jung Dong Ha a full lyric tenor and FTTS Hwanhee a baritone that tends to sing like tenor
@@himi_ also his true lower supported range is B2
kinda want to see a got7 version since all 7 have been singing in their solo songs 👉👈
you said raising of the larynx is a sign of no support and this reactor th-cam.com/video/f0eEH3mODX4/w-d-xo.html commented the same thing about haechan at 4:41 but haechan fans seemed to take everything he said as a compliment?? was it subtle criticism from the reactor?
lol yes to me it seems like subtle criticism but they seem to have taken it as a "only he can do it" type of compliment. The guy also said taeil was the best one so he seems to actually know his stuff
Oh yes, it definitely was a subtle criticism. He mentioned Haechans high larynx multiple times and even said that it's not the most ideal or sustainable way to sing. He said that he's surprised that Haechan can reach upper notes with "Seeming" ease despite the larynx position. The last part is what the Stans took as a compliment. They thought he meant that he sings great even with high larynx but what it seemed like Sam meant was that it's surprising that his voice isn't breaking or is struggling too much with the larynx position. Sam definitely knows his stuff and is actually my favorite vocal coach because he states the negatives and the positives of a singers voice while remaining respectful and sweet.
I think you guys are missing where he then went on to say that there’s nothing inherently wrong with singing with a high larynx, it’s just that it’s harder to do. But he said even still he’s not sure how Haechan is managing to sing in higher registers well. He also said that as long it as not hurting and it’s something the artist can do over and over, it isn’t really a problem.
I just went back to it again, the reactor literally said he’s obviously doing it really well and that he’s clearly done it before and does it well. The only “criticism” there was that it’s not something the the majority of vocalists can do easily. So that’s why sunflowers are taking it as praise, cuz he’s basically saying haechan isn’t singing it’s standard technique, and it’s harder the way he’s doing it, and not a lot of people can do it well/without strain or injury.
@@_fullsunzen25 Haechan is still young and benefits from not having to sing live often. If he starts to sing more frequently as he ages, these bad habits will very much catch up with him, especially if they start making him belt more. Note that the dinggo episode didn't even have him singing much above G4 and yet even a contemporary vocal coach like Sam Johnson noted how unnaturally high his larynx position is even in that range. Any serious vocal coach would try to correct his issues if he was their student. Reaction videos aren't the same as actual coaching.
what happened to the UKISS? video 👀
It's blocked. Also realized some errors on a few notes so i just decided to take it down lol
ohh that's unfortunate 😔
who do you think is better between Jungwoo, Haechan and Ten?
Jungwoo > Haechan >/ Ten
Thank you for making this video! This video is really informative ❤ Btw I want to tell you my story when I first discovered NCT. First I want to say sorry if my thoughts / comments offended you and everyone here, I tried to be respectful with my words 🙏🏻🥺
I used to be a carat around 2017-2020 ish and I always thought that most nct vocalists are subpar to svt vocalists esp DK and seungkwan. I don't really dig DK's technique because his tendency to get nasal but I really like his voice color, and I only knew Doyoung and Jaehyun in NCT on 2017-2018 where they were still around average ish and I remembered I didn't feel particularly impressed with their performances 😭 I am sorry 🥹🥹 I liked jaehyun voice color tho.
I just thought seungkwan and dk were the more superior vocalists
I was interested in NCT Dream back in 2021 because literally everyone around me liked them 😂 so I checked them out and my first song with them was Hot Sauce, Dive into You and Hello Future. Many people hyped their vocal line skills esp Haechan but I am sorry I am kinda dissapointed because well.....yeah my expectation was kinda high because of the hype *sigh*
The thing is, I really dislike vocalists with nasal placement in their singing 😢 that's why I don't really like japanese idol's vocalists, DK is the only exception I guess 😂 but I like his better moments esp his lows, and at least he has nice support in his midrange although he can get nasal and whiny (i think he is better than jaehyun and xiaojun though). That's why I don't really get the hype around haechan because eventhough his vocal color seems to be well liked by many kpop fans, his stylistic style + technique cannot back up many claims of him as one of the best vocalist in kpop as his stans said 😭
So yeah...my impression with NCT vocals just went down hill with dream 😂 but I enjoyed their discography though. Until this day my biases are renjun and jaemin, and I admit renjun has to work hard on improving his technique 😢
Later I found out about nct 127 during sticker comeback and I WAS REALLY SURPRISED. Like surprised with Taeil ( finally I discovered him and I am really happy) and how much Doyoung has improved. Seriously, those two single handedly made up my mind about NCT vocalists 😭😭 I am really grateful I found 127 😔 but for real I sometimes hope they get more bsides like dream's lol because I like their discography more and I am dying to hear taeil and doyoung singing to be there for you 😭
Sorry for my long comment, thank you for making many informative videos about vocals and I hope you will continue making those!
I dont really get you bc if you like Taeil and Doyoung and listen to 127 b-sides you will find them more interesting then Dream's. 127's disco tend to more R'B than just ballad and show their vocal skills a lot. Check out Time Lapse in their latest alb and you'll see. i hope that my comment can help. Also WayV disco is really good too
@@nina.ng1208 hi thank you for your recommendations, I have listened to some of 127's bsides but I still prefer dream songs more 🤔 and I agree with wayv, I don't really listen to them but from what I've heard they have some good songs 😆👍🏻
some notes were not unsupported
Like which ones may I ask?
@@himi_ 1:16 and 2:27
@@yujikari both of them are throaty actually.
@@himi_ Renjun's was quite throaty but Haechan's was very clean and bright
@@yujikari the reverb and room make it sound clean but if you listen carefully you can hear him squeezing his throat, especially at the end of the note
Chenle is a trained singer. There is no way he strained his voice.
So true, haechan’s voice >>> the rest
This is so funny and biased. Are you telling me Haechan (and others that you featured only in the unsupported category) have NO supported notes??? If you wanted to appear fair and unbiased, you would show an unsupported and supported note of each singer to show what they look like on each individual singer. No need to slant your presentation.
If I'm bias then show me Haechan's supported notes. Don't just come here and accuse someone of being biased without anything to back up your claims. Cuz ironically that makes you the funny one here not me lmaooo. I literally said in the beginning of the video that only 4 members in NCT who deloped proper support and Haechan is not one of them so how am I able to showcase his supported notes when there is none to begin with? 💀💀💀 Gurl make it make sense
Jungwoo has a few decent f4s i think but none of the other vocalists can belt a clean E4. So there's no material where they'll have anything above in the supported category
the unsupported ones have my favorite voices tho. just sayin