I genuinely miss Shadow and Rouges friendship. They always had a special connection, from Shadow saving her from the Vault and Rouge receiving his Inhibitor Ring at the end of SA2 over Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog to finally Sonic 06 where they had their last hurra.
Shadow being stagnant isn't a problem. Its that he was characterised as an edgelord just for the sake of it. Sonic 06' had its problems, but its depiction of Shadow was basically perfect. You really got the sense that he was more mature and has grown a lot since his SA2 and Heroes days. Its what made his interactions with Silver and Mephiles so interesting. For the former, having someone who's used to being manipulated open his eyes to the truth was perfect. And with the latter, if Mephiles had tried to manipulate Shadow at any other point in his story, then he might have succeded. But because Shadow was now older and wiser, he could see through the carefully laid BS , even if it had some hint of truth to it. Its a huge part of what made the Shadow storyline in that game so good. Unfortunately ,however, ever since 06' we haven't gotten a Shadow that felt quite the same. If anything it seems like they tried to *revert* his character back to being a rival/anti-hero/antagonist for seemingly no reason. Sonic Prime is the only piece of Sonic media recently that has attempted to rectify this as we actually get hints of the old Shadow. He's a loner, but not needlessly mean to other people. He's confident, but not arrogant. He has a begrudging respect for Sonic, not just because he's an equal but because he does consider Sonic a friend. He's just *annoyed* at how careless he can be. Even Shadow's reasoning for being angry at Sonic makes sense in the show as Sonic literally broke all of reality because he wasn't listening And while Shadow's disregard of the Shatterspaces and the different versions of the gang are almost cruel on the surface, he's not wrong in saying that they are fundimentally different people and that there's no point in getting attached as they'll likely all disappear once the Prism is put back together. Its legit good writting for him and I hope that bleeds into the games and comics soon enough.
I think you're pretty much right on the money with this one. I like your take on Shadow and his role in the story. I get what you mean how it's difficult to give the existing cast arcs without changing the status quo too much. I was thinking about it and kind of came to an interesting conclusion that you definitely touched on. Character interactions. The Sonic franchise is at its best when it does what it's good at and that's character interactions. It's what makes up for the lack of arcs. I think of the cast as less like multiple extremely deep characters and more like parts of an ecosystem that you love to see hanging out with each other. They're all meant to bounce off each other in interesting ways, which is why their personalities have to be different. I also agree on what you said about Shadow not getting along with Sonic and you touched on why as well. It's Knuckles and Tails, his other friends. If Shadow were more friendly, he'd be too much like Knuckles and he'd become redundant. All 3 of these characters are based off how they contrast with Sonic himself as he's the main character. Tails is his best friend, Knuckles is his friendly rival, and Shadow is his straight up rival. They kind of form a gradient from friend to rival and Shadow's supposed to be at the rival end. Also I'd like at least a couple platonic hangs with team Dark. Have them do adult stuff, like going to a cafe or tax evasion or something, I dunno. The dynamics work as they do because they're unique among the cast. Like you said Shadow's characterization is fine. It could be tweaked, but it works.
I dont think the character being stagnant and having no character arcs is bad, I just think the character they gave him in the past which is a 2 dimensional edgelord who is edgy for the sake of it, it was bad. That being said with his new character in sonic prime and how he was in that egg city ark is much better as whole for his character. He's not an edgelord he's just more calculated than sonic is, and he doesn't usually take big risks unless the outcome outweighs risk he's taking if that makes sense. He took a suggestion from tails to use a artificial chaos emerald even though the chaos energy was distorted and the outcome was supposed to be that he uses some of his energy like sonic did in sonic adventure 2. But what ended up happening instead is that he took in more energy than he could handle and exploded into chaos blast. His old character probably would have told tails to screw off like he did with sonic when he told him to run off the virus. This version of him is much better.
I actually like Shadow in Prime. They nailed him as the no nonsense hero and the dynamic between him and Sonic was fun to watch. Also they fight but Shadow actually has a legit reason to fighting Sonic. He was upset because the Paradox Prism destroyed the world and he blamed Sonic for it. Heck Shadow even warned Sonic that Nine shouldn't be trusted because he knew he had his own agendas and guess what? He was right. And in the end Shadow shares the same goal as Sonic. Restore Ghost Hill back into the Green Hill they know so he can return home. This is the Shadow I know. He was never evil. He was a tragic hero misguided by false memories that made him an antagonist but then he finds his true purpose that Maria wanted and he took a stand to save the world and give people a shot of happiness. And before you say Prime is a cartoon. It actually exists in the same continuity as the games. It's not an alternate universe like the other cartoons.
In the first chabpter they already did lay things well. First Sonic describling Shadow as a rival, and Shadow following the tone of the serie by breaking the four wall 'They're air Shoes', underlining that he was more than just being there just because. The following things he said 'You need to stop and listen for once' clearly showed he had a valid reason to be that way toward Sonic. Is interesting also because at the start he may seem antagonistic and all, and his grim look doesn't help. But later he shows he isn't so bad, he shows to be a loyal friend. The difference with the original Shadow (I mean the one until 06) is that Prime Shadow is more cheerful, more open minded, and more timid toward strangers.
They basically turned him into the quantum ranger, someone who likes being alone and doing things his way, but ultimately wants same like our heroes. Shadow's story in adventure 2 suffers majorly from the memory altering shenanigans. If shadow truly loved maria, why did gerald needed to mess with his memories? The game tells us that loosing maria pushed him over the edge, but the same can't hold true for Shadow? He has to have a spotless record besides fighting sonic? Then all this time shadow's been carried by his esthatics and vocal performance! Like many other Sonic adventure 2 stories, they had a decent foundation at a fundamental level, but they ruined it by adding many unnecessary details, case in point, Rouge! She started out simple enough;"catwoman's personality if she had han solo's arc"("all that glitters isn't golden"),but by adding that she's also a g.u.n. agent her actions come off more like the baroness from gi joe;"ruthless,self serving,pragmatism"!
@@Smols828. Maybe you should, because good comparisons like this might make sega realise what the characters should stand for! For example, rouge's efforts obtaining the emeralds make her come off extremely cold blooded, all she needs are glasses,one leather spy catsuit, and goggles, then she could pass off baroness!
I really like Sonic and Shadow's dynamic in Prime. They're clearly not enemies and Sonic clearly cares about Shadow (and I'm willing to believe the opposite is also true at least to some extent), but they're also in opposition and their rivalry feels sincere. I find it very cool that Prime managed to strike this balance. Plus it's great to have a character who actually brings out Sonic's snarky side in Prime.
I think the biggest problem with the Sonic Mandates that nobody talks about is the fact they say The Master Emerald isn't any more special than the emeralds. Which means it does litteraly nothing. Which Is... wrong? Like actively. It at the very least governs powers to the other emeralds as stated in other games. So like... nah lol
I think shdow works fine now as well. But i can see wanting shadow to have more amicable interactions with the sonic crew. He always reminded me of their older coworker thats seen too much on the job.
I think that the annoying mandates for Shadow being too edgy, might manage to go away sometime after the third movie gets released, because if Paramount tries to be a good amount faithful by showing Shadow being more like he truely was in SA2, and that movie gains big success and praise by fans (especially longtime ones,) for him being shown as a clever grumpy character who is willing to do heroic good stuff at certain times.(especially during serious situations,) That might prove to SEGA that that's the kind of personality that he should be shown with from then on, because of how may people worldwide will likely show a big amount of satisfation with him being shown like that in that highly anticipated upcoming movie. I really hope that that does happen, and I like that he gets shown behaving more like a smart older brother to Sonic in Sonic Prime, instead of like an edgloard.
@@Starrmonster02 I think they likely will get Shadow done right mostly because the director (Jeff Fowler,) is a major fan of that iconic character. So that makes me think that if he enjoys Shadow that much he likely won't want Shadow to be done wrongly, and from being the director, he has a good amount of influence over how that movie and any other future Sonic films from that studio, will be made.
Agreed. I think Shadow's fine where he currently is. I don't think he needs to be hanging out with team dark MORE because I don't see Shadow just hanging out with people unless their interests align. After all, that's how they first became team dark. And I think because of that, it's completely acceptable for Shadow to have a preference for Rouge and Omega over the others. That is still highlighted to this day. His other relationships are fine too. The only thing Shadow needs is prominence in the series again.
The thing I hate about Sonic Prime is how they ruined Sonic’s Character. Except when it came to lost world, Sonic was never a bumbling fool who didn’t know how to take things seriously. When things got serious, it was Sonic that took responsibility, and who was quite sensible. In Frontiers, he may have doomed the world, but in that instance, it was in character for him because he was trying to save his friends. The Sonic we grew up with may have listened to Shadow when he tried to reason, not constantly ignore Shadow, and doom the world for no reason while he was at it. They only made Shadow a better character just to take a dump on Sonic, and that’s why I don’t like Sonic Prime. The real Sonic would know when to listen to others, and coordinate with them instead of making a fool of himself with arrogance. They need to focus on writing all the characters the best they could, or it will seem like they are biased towards one character in some way, shape or form. Sonic is not usually the type to get careless, and people need to play some actually good games to fully understand what makes Sonic, Sonic.
Just wanna preface by saying that this was an interesting video, and I commend you for taking a risk with this hot take. I disagree because I think his charactrerization is too vague. 1. Shadow's character should not be bound to maria anymore, yet we never find out what his motivations are past 06. *Conceptually* speaking, the shadow from SA2 is not the same shadow from Heroes onwards. Yes, it's technically the same guy, however we never saw him getting all his memories back and when he did figure out who he used to be he already had 2 whole games of character development. This is why the "Goodbye Forever... Shadow the Hedgehog" at the end of his own game was so powerfull. He was going to forge his own path moving forward and do what he thinks is right, regardless of what happened in his past. He lets go of his destain for GUN and even works alongside them. However, past that, we never actually find out what his "new self" is. Why does he try to save the day? How is his heroesim different to Sonic's. I'm not just talking about the old and dry "the end justifies the means" here, Sonic is fundamentally an ideals driven character. Sonic is about freedom, letting nature take hold and surfing along the winds of time and he fights so that this balance is never broken. This establishes why he fights, who he fights and how he fights them. Shadow never gets any more depth than "he is good now but also kind of grumpy". You mention Shadow "respects but doesn't have to like sonic", that would be fine if you could actually answer why. If Shadow is to be Sonic's rival, then he needs to be as driven through ideals as he is. What else are they rivals about? Power and Speed? That's not interesting since it's confirmed they are equal in both aspects (and we'll get into how that's flawed later). Sonic's personality? Then Shadow would be Jet's biggest rival if anything, that guy even made Sonic mad. That's why his character doesn't work, he is grumpy and aint doing anything about it. You are right, he doesn't need an arc, he desperatelly needs a character instead lmao. Speaking of which: 2.He doesn't have a character... or anything consistent at all. Shadow Is confirmed to be as strong and as fast as Sonic, correct? Wouldn't that make him better than Sonic? Think about it, he is a Sonic Clone with EXTRA abilities. Oh right... None of his abilities have established rules. Does he need an emerald or not? Biolizard clearly didn't have to, is that the mythical chaos snap only rule we have no official confirmation of? Does Chaos Boost even exist? IDW showed it might, but was that just a visual reference or not? They also mentioned that shadow is better at chaos control than silver... what? what does that even mean?... What abilities does he even have? wait, can't shadow fly/hover? He does it in sa2, shadow05(his own game) and 06 and then never happens again. How inteligent is shadow? Heroes and 06 makes him out to be inteligent with a strong sense of leadership and level headedness , he takes initiative multiple times through 06 and served as a guide to silver when blaze wasn't arround (a role now sniped by Espio btw). But wait- I thought shadow was this hot headed individual who never thinks before leaping into action to show "he is the ultimate cool guy who has enough power to not need a brain" which, aside from stealing Knuckle's whole flow, it's inconsistent on a very fundamental level. Hold on, how powerful is shadow even? He can lift a bus in Shadow05 and In 06 he has the same ability as Knuckles, as in, he is able to smash rocks (yes it's a feature they had to code for in specific characters). yet is as powerful as Sonic? In Shadow05 he did the equivalent of the SA2 ending... on his own! And he was fine at the end! 06 and some spinoff portray shadow as being slightly slower than sonic, yet in every other game he is AS fast... WE DON'T EVEN ACTUALLY KNOW HOW FAST HE IS! Maybe he has a strong will? Nah he gives up in IDW and Silver has to motivate HIM. Wait, is shadow a Speed, flying AND Power type? He is basically his own team! how is he "as strong and capable as sonic"?? No wonder he doesn't interact with Team Dark, they are obsolete if Sega doesn't make his character consistent. And let's not even talk about the inhibitor rings. Can you believe that canonically Omega is stronger than Shadow? weird to think how he would demolish Sonic by this power-scaling logic. In Sonic Generations, Shadow is little more than a pushover, Sonic X (which was approved by sonic team of the time and is the most character faithful show we have) makes shadow out to be the terminator as he SOLOS TEAM SONIC on THEIR ship. TL;DR You CAN'T tell me his has "fine characterisation" if we don't even know anything consistent about him. Sorry didn't mean this to get so long.
A mix between Prime, Forces, and 06 is my Shadow. He needs that gritty, ruthless, loner/silent, straight to the point attitude. Also I agree with your point that Sonic and Shadow are RIVALS. Their ideologies clash and therefore they disagree. Shadow does what is right by any means necessary while Sonic stays within the lines. Excellent video
I actually do think Shadow should be friendlier to Sonic. That's not to say they shouldn't but heads. But in SA2 they seemed to have a mutual respect for each other as enemies, and then a type of respect as allies by the end. They had no issues working together. In Heroes, they also did not have much friction in their disagreement. In Shadow The Hedgehog when he's edgy is when he seems to DISLIKE Sonic, which is still not shown much. In that entire game, Shadow doesn't come off as very smart so much as kind've a nuisance to everyone else because of his brash behavior. In 06, he seems OVERLY serious but in a calm manner, and actually comes in to save Sonic from Silver and the 2 simply nod to each other for Sonic to do what he needs to do while Shadow holds off Silver. At the very least THIS dynamic could work best for Modern Sonic and Modern Shadow. That said... we actually don't even SEE Shadow in the modern game a lot. In the Rivals series and Colors DS, they don't interact a lot and we don't see Shadow again until Forces where he, again, actually tries to save Sonic before never being seen by anyone again. (I have a theory about that). Eventually he returns to stop his fake from attacking Sonic, and he doesn't talk down to Sonic. That's the last we got. Really, all the headbutting is in the comics and Sonic Prime. So maybe I'll change my answer and say I don't think he needs to be friendlier to Sonic, but merely friendlier than what people perceive and disagreeing with what you think they should be like. I do think Shadow should be less angsty and edgy at least in the shallow sense. On the side note about Tails, I actually rather disliked how on the nose it was. Everyone was like "Oh look they're finally doing something with Tails! Go, Ian Flynn!" and I'm like.... it feels more like they know how the fans feel about Tails since Forces (idk what took the fanbase 10 years to recognize the issue but whatever) and the writers were like "Oh this will be easy. Damage control. Just have the characters point out the thing people don't like so they feel acknowledge and then give that thing the finger and they'll be eating out the palms of our hands". lol For ME, a better strategy would be to OWN Tails muck up and use it to develop Tails further. In SA1, he was forced to be more independent. In SA2, he was overconfident trying to act tough, then admitted the emerald was fake and was angry and beat Eggman for Sonic. Sonic was alive though, so Tails was relieved. Now Tails feels the need to plan things out and focuses more on his tech to aid Sonic preemptively rather than being in the field. (At least this is how we could retroactively define the events leading up to Forces). You see this even more in Colors, where Sonic pushes Tails out the way for his safety, and Tails worried about losing Sonic. In Lost World, Tails felt angsty and like Sonic didn't believe in him. We could now have an explanation as to why. Especially if Sonic wouldn't listen to Tails and knocked away the conch and also almost fell into a Zeti trap. And in Forces, Tails wasn't able to help Sonic and lost all hope in himself. He stayed away from the resistance because of this, and couldn't even figure out what was wrong with Omega which he blames himself for (not realizing it was Infinite's doing.) And what most people forget is Tails was always afraid of Chaos even when he fought Chaos 4 (alongside Sonic and Knuckles, but now he's alone). So Classic Sonic returned when he used as a crutch. In Frontiers, I feel like there was the opportunity for Tails and Sonic to talk and Tails to learn that his original burst of confidence wasn't a mistake. It's hard for people to acquire their self esteem. But for people who do it and then still mess up, it's even harder to believe in oneself because it feels like all the negative weaknesses they thought of themselves originally was proven right. Sonic could remind Tails that people can always still fail no matter who they are, but that doesn't mean they have to give up. Tails can learn to accept failure and still move forward.
I disagree on point number 2 entirely while I do get where you are coming from I feel like this more so worked on SA2 cause going forward shadow clearly had an immense amount of respect for sonic towards the end of adventure 2 he even seemed to have grown kinda fond of him not saying they have to be best friends. But I’d prefer more of a Goku Vegeta relationship that they have now . They are friends Vegeta even admits that at the end of the buu saga/Z but they still compete with each others to prove who’s the best and when Goku lets his foolishness get shed of him Vegeta steps in to take over. As much as I know how some people hate the comparison for some odd reason shadows character arc is very similar to Vegetas. Not saying shadow has to be apart of the team and be a family man he can do his own thing and still have major arcs that contribute a lot both to his character and the story. He’s such a popular and good character that it’s sad he rarely gets used anymore because of segas own incompetence.
I agree with you but I didn't know how to put it in words. They don't have to agree in everything, but they could still be... A bit friendlier I think.
The most interesting thing from Sonic adventure 2 is that the relationship was almost reversed. Sonic was the one who minded his own businnes and clearly didn't want anything to do with Shadow. Shadow was the mischievous one, he always teased Sonic but toward the end he was curious toward him, in the whole game it was always Shadow who approached Sonic, never the other way.
For argument 2 I don’t think “friendlier” is the right term. It’s more like wanting Shadow to treat Sonic with a bit more credit and respect and not as an annoying nuisance that can’t do anything right cause Shadow’s arc in SA2 he went from seeing Sonic as beneath him to seeing Sonic as his equal, and in 06 this was shown again by trusting Sonic enough to work with him to escape the future and believing that Sonic would be crucial in saving the world in 06’s last story. They could still disagree and stuff but he shouldn’t be treated Sonic as beneath him anymore.
I think a lot of the problems people have with shadow from the 2010s are greatly exaggerated especially when you actually go back to the games and realize the only time he’s been wildly out of character was in generations and maybe free riders. Shadow in the 2010s was more irrelevant and not seen often, and because of this I think people got attached to Archie’s depiction of shadow where he and sonic were more friendly to each other (pre genesis wave at least) and now people would rather see that now. But I think people like you said forget they’re supposed to be rivals and what makes them great rivals is that they don’t always see eye to eye. Archie is also the universe that made shadow’s relationship with team dark more like the other teams, family and friend like but in the games they’ve never been depicted like that. For IDW shadow I think everything about him is in character other than the fact he’s always mad for some reason. Him thinking he’d be immune to the metal virus is fine when we remember that a part of his reason for being mad was to be immune to all diseases. We also then see shadow think back about what sonic told him and regretting not listening to him. I’d say Prime shadow writes shadow as perfect as it can be with its writing as it’s just normal shadow as he’s been ever since the ending of shadow 05.
My biggest problem with Shadow is not how he's characterized but how the characterization is written. Shadow is absolutely Prideful and would 100% underestimate his opponents because he's the Ultimate Lifeform and Sonic is "reckless". Him getting infected is fine. What isn't fine is that when he gets infected he goes "GAHH NO BUT IM SO COOL *Zombie* " because in a crisis the core character element reveals itself and Shadow *should* at this point go "damn guess I gotta run this off, I thought my biology would have me immune from illness" and it just doesn't fit. Brooding is fine, but we don't ever know what Shadow is thinking so it kinda just comes off as "look at me im cool" rather than him actually contemplating something And finally the Sonic Mandates say Shadow doesn't have friends which is objectively just wrong.
I would have even accepted him getting infected and remembering sonics advice about running off the Virus, and instead of going "GAH IM COOL I DONT RUN FROM THINGS" Shadow instead see's Omega and Rouge getting overwhelmed and goes "I'm *not* going to leave them to save myself" and gets infected giving them an opening to save the survivors Or if you REALLY wanted to make it about Pride, Shadow DOES leave them because he genuinely believes he is the best chance against the Virus and Eggman even while infected and has a learning moment doing what's right and listening to his heart that SONIC could teach him. Overall that Arc for Shadow was just handled poorly
YES!! THIS!! Thank you for articulating my thoughts! I don't mind Shadow is characterized as prideful. That's not what I have a problem with in IDW. My problem is that, in Metal Virus, Shadow's "pride" is written as him being idiotic and dumb. Despite the fact that he doesn't have to be written exactly that way. Something which I hope people would stop overlook this and stop blaming only on "mandates"
@ryannathaniel9296 shadows Core character traits should be "protect the people living on the planet" and that moment in IDW betrays that idea. Honestly in Forces, Shadow has a moment with Infinite that he does remember who he is, and why would he. Shadow is the Ultimate Life Form. He came to do a job, and it got done. Anyone who was in his way got dealt with. And That ironically is how his pride should be written.
It's not that Shadow should be all buddy-buddy with Sonic, it's that the current characterization of Shadow shows next to no respect for him whatsoever. Take the most recent TailsTube video, for instance. Shadow had zero respect for Sonic, was constantly insulting and belittling him, boosting his own ego and arrogance just to spite Sonic, and even said that he found Sonic's mere existence repulsive. It even disgusted him to think of just one nice thing to say about Sonic, and when Tails said that he and Sonic do respect each other and do have a friendship, Shadow scoffed at that and said he'd crush Sonic. His current attitude borders on outright hatred of the blue hedgehog. You can have rival characters who disagree on things and compete with each other without requiring one of them to treat the other like garbage.
I just want to say that another reason why idw dosen't do arcs is propobably beacuse it takes place after forces but before frontiers so that just mkaes things harder in general
@@BoneEater5491I think it feels that way cuz Sonic feels like more of a kid in Prime. The way he handles things, it doesn't feel like he's been doing this for years. So Shadow looks greater by comparison.
Ill be honest. I dont necessarily have an issue with how Shadow is portrayed in the idw comics. Now, ive only read up to the fallout of the metal virus arc, but if anything, i feel he can be a bit too hasty in his actions and a little overconfident in his abilities. Those flaws have been a part of Shadow's character since Adventure 2, but it's more glaring in the comics. Shadow i feel has already completed his arc across multiple games. Now, i feel he is best utilized as a character that has his own methods of getting things done and challenging Sonic's woldview and actions, much like their dynamic in Sonic Prime. They may not see eye to eye, but they respect one another and trust each other enough to do the right thing. With the anticipation of the 3rd Sonic movie coming out next year, im just glad to see Shadow back in the spotlight again
Side note. Shadow is not even the most Edgy Sonic Character anymore. If you count Sonic Prime I don't think he even top 5 anymore. Maybe. As for current most Edgy character, it Infinite. Who is painfully one note. How ever I think the proper rival could help flesh him out in far more interesting ways. Infinite is Edgy, lone wolf, angst, able to warp reality to anything, and talks down to everyone. So we need someone who challenge all of that. Someone who power is literally their friends, has an upbeat attitude, and has a wide array of powers and skills to handle anything. The one I have in mind is described as 'confident, kind, courageous, noble, sympathetic and a little smug with a bit of an attitude and mouth. He also cherished his feelings of friendship and the people he had made connections with.'. This may sound like Sonic, but it also describe his adopted son for one game. Emerl the Gizoid. He has the perfect makings to be Infinite's rival. The 2 mirror each other in so many ways, having polar opposite traits in every where but confidences. But there it by looking down on others for Infinite and having confident in the skills he learned from his friends for Emerl. There just 2 problem. Emerl is dead. And he needs the Chaos emeralds to power him. I say have Tails rebuild him and have him run on Tail's fake Emeralds instead. The same kind Sonic used to do chaos Control in Sonic Adventure 2 battle. He won't have as much power as before, but he can still be vary adaptable. And him getting all 7 Emeralds can temporary return him to full power. But the Banter between these 2 would be amazing where nether can aford take the other seriously do to their pride and what the other is at their core.
Shadow isn't edgy. I think that would go to Zor. Zor is the stereotype of an edgelord. Saying nothing matters. Everything is pointless. Why even bother trying. Etc. Many of the Zeti except for maybe Zavok were all satires of common character tropes. One of them is literally the fat guy who eats a lot.
The problem with the argument that he (and the rest of the cast) doesn't need character arcs anymore kinda bugs me because the characters very clearly have been changed to suit the times and the mandates. Amy is written to be more like a Sally Acorn, hyper organized, army leader type with a few hints of her old self. This isn't a bad direction for her character but the issue is how unearned it feels. It didn't feel like we got a character arc for her. She just sorta started being this way after Forces. Would've been good for a storyline in the games or comics to actually show that character arc play out ahead of time. Rather than it just being the new status quo that is sorta explained retroactively. Tails' character regression and redevelopment don't feel deliberate. They feel more like SEGA hand waving away inconsistencies. With Shadow, he's written this way because SEGA just doesn't really care for his character. His characterization in Prime is fine. And all, but it's only a matter of time before they change him again. And if that's the case, then character arcs should be very possible.
I agree. Shadow’s current character is fine, and I thought this long before Shadow Generations even released its first trailer. People keep latching on to old outdated complaints just to run they mouth
In Sonic Prime? sure. In the rest of the franchise? far cry from his glory days. I do agree he needs to meet Sage, and I think I need a fan comic abut the cast reading the Egg Memos.
Ok so, I completely agree with everything you say about the characterization but I have some light notes 1. I wish we got more small arcs like postboot having shadows brother 2. I wish sega realized that sonic is more then just a mascot 3. I don't really get the humor you are doing... it feels like a redditor and tumblr thing of saying the most extreme version of an event in the series Also, do you have a discord?
I think when it comes to recent like sonic prime shadow in this season 3 in this first episode that was uploaded to TH-cam he was really good and I think the closest your gonna get to a great shadow something like a sonic 06 shadow which besides adventure 2 and heroes was his other best apperence. Team dark wise I think he should hang out with them more but if you really think about it they really are pretty separate anything during heroes and 06 they grew closer sure but shadow is almost always shown with rouge or the whole squad of team dark and even though sega said they weren't friends and don't even like each other the stories with them themselves kinda show it was just a way to try and say shadow don't give a shit he clearly cares but I don't think they should really hang out that much they are the type of friends you see as the like idk how to put it like the adults that spent most of their year raising children and just get around each other every now and then to get a break and have a good time... despite shadow and rouge being together a lot. Honestly though team dark definitely is the best team character wise because they actually act like one, they are soft spoken sure but they can easily tell what's good they are the type of friends who are like the edgy annoying ones but all still really good and know how to be chill with each other without setting each other off. Shadow and Sonic ummm I don't think they hate each other and I don't think they dislike each other tbh I think sonic considers shadow a friend but shadow considers sonic an associate like that one family member you have to be around cuz your parents said you couldn't be in your room the whole time, I think shadow in many ways likes sonic but knows he's just not someone he can really be around around to often and just knows he gets on his nerves a little more I don't think they dislike each other but I do think they have that unspoken bond where as sonic and knuckles have that spoken bond but still have that rough relationship. Also yeah I think it's sweet how shadow is pretty kind to Amy she's like that one character that could probably keep him calm and tbh I think shadow considers her a friend but again just not someone to hang out with but does find her more tolerable
Thank you for addressing this topic! Glad someone else thankfully recognizes that Shadow’s poor characterization in the Metal Virus arc was due to Sega’s mandates and not just half-assed decisions by the writers. Though, I do wonder why long, grand-standing franchises like Sonic don’t need to give their characters arcs or meanings to their stories anymore. I’m not saying I completely disagree because it’s a good point, but there are examples of franchises such as Zelda and partially even Mario that do exactly that. Overall, this video is a great one and I’m honestly just glad there are people out there who have a much more reasonable and understanding look on Shadow’s character. It’s great to see!
I genuinely miss Shadow and Rouges friendship. They always had a special connection, from Shadow saving her from the Vault and Rouge receiving his Inhibitor Ring at the end of SA2 over Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog to finally Sonic 06 where they had their last hurra.
Shadow being stagnant isn't a problem. Its that he was characterised as an edgelord just for the sake of it.
Sonic 06' had its problems, but its depiction of Shadow was basically perfect. You really got the sense that he was more mature and has grown a lot since his SA2 and Heroes days.
Its what made his interactions with Silver and Mephiles so interesting.
For the former, having someone who's used to being manipulated open his eyes to the truth was perfect.
And with the latter, if Mephiles had tried to manipulate Shadow at any other point in his story, then he might have succeded. But because Shadow was now older and wiser, he could see through the carefully laid BS , even if it had some hint of truth to it. Its a huge part of what made the Shadow storyline in that game so good.
Unfortunately ,however, ever since 06' we haven't gotten a Shadow that felt quite the same. If anything it seems like they tried to *revert* his character back to being a rival/anti-hero/antagonist for seemingly no reason.
Sonic Prime is the only piece of Sonic media recently that has attempted to rectify this as we actually get hints of the old Shadow.
He's a loner, but not needlessly mean to other people.
He's confident, but not arrogant.
He has a begrudging respect for Sonic, not just because he's an equal but because he does consider Sonic a friend. He's just *annoyed* at how careless he can be.
Even Shadow's reasoning for being angry at Sonic makes sense in the show as Sonic literally broke all of reality because he wasn't listening
And while Shadow's disregard of the Shatterspaces and the different versions of the gang are almost cruel on the surface, he's not wrong in saying that they are fundimentally different people and that there's no point in getting attached as they'll likely all disappear once the Prism is put back together.
Its legit good writting for him and I hope that bleeds into the games and comics soon enough.
I think you're pretty much right on the money with this one. I like your take on Shadow and his role in the story. I get what you mean how it's difficult to give the existing cast arcs without changing the status quo too much. I was thinking about it and kind of came to an interesting conclusion that you definitely touched on. Character interactions.
The Sonic franchise is at its best when it does what it's good at and that's character interactions. It's what makes up for the lack of arcs. I think of the cast as less like multiple extremely deep characters and more like parts of an ecosystem that you love to see hanging out with each other. They're all meant to bounce off each other in interesting ways, which is why their personalities have to be different.
I also agree on what you said about Shadow not getting along with Sonic and you touched on why as well. It's Knuckles and Tails, his other friends. If Shadow were more friendly, he'd be too much like Knuckles and he'd become redundant.
All 3 of these characters are based off how they contrast with Sonic himself as he's the main character. Tails is his best friend, Knuckles is his friendly rival, and Shadow is his straight up rival. They kind of form a gradient from friend to rival and Shadow's supposed to be at the rival end.
Also I'd like at least a couple platonic hangs with team Dark. Have them do adult stuff, like going to a cafe or tax evasion or something, I dunno.
The dynamics work as they do because they're unique among the cast. Like you said Shadow's characterization is fine. It could be tweaked, but it works.
I dont think the character being stagnant and having no character arcs is bad, I just think the character they gave him in the past which is a 2 dimensional edgelord who is edgy for the sake of it, it was bad. That being said with his new character in sonic prime and how he was in that egg city ark is much better as whole for his character. He's not an edgelord he's just more calculated than sonic is, and he doesn't usually take big risks unless the outcome outweighs risk he's taking if that makes sense. He took a suggestion from tails to use a artificial chaos emerald even though the chaos energy was distorted and the outcome was supposed to be that he uses some of his energy like sonic did in sonic adventure 2. But what ended up happening instead is that he took in more energy than he could handle and exploded into chaos blast. His old character probably would have told tails to screw off like he did with sonic when he told him to run off the virus. This version of him is much better.
I actually like Shadow in Prime. They nailed him as the no nonsense hero and the dynamic between him and Sonic was fun to watch. Also they fight but Shadow actually has a legit reason to fighting Sonic. He was upset because the Paradox Prism destroyed the world and he blamed Sonic for it. Heck Shadow even warned Sonic that Nine shouldn't be trusted because he knew he had his own agendas and guess what? He was right. And in the end Shadow shares the same goal as Sonic. Restore Ghost Hill back into the Green Hill they know so he can return home. This is the Shadow I know. He was never evil. He was a tragic hero misguided by false memories that made him an antagonist but then he finds his true purpose that Maria wanted and he took a stand to save the world and give people a shot of happiness. And before you say Prime is a cartoon. It actually exists in the same continuity as the games. It's not an alternate universe like the other cartoons.
In the first chabpter they already did lay things well. First Sonic describling Shadow as a rival, and Shadow following the tone of the serie by breaking the four wall 'They're air Shoes', underlining that he was more than just being there just because.
The following things he said 'You need to stop and listen for once' clearly showed he had a valid reason to be that way toward Sonic. Is interesting also because at the start he may seem antagonistic and all, and his grim look doesn't help. But later he shows he isn't so bad, he shows to be a loyal friend.
The difference with the original Shadow (I mean the one until 06) is that Prime Shadow is more cheerful, more open minded, and more timid toward strangers.
They basically turned him into the quantum ranger, someone who likes being alone and doing things his way, but ultimately wants same like our heroes.
Shadow's story in adventure 2 suffers majorly from the memory altering shenanigans. If shadow truly loved maria, why did gerald needed to mess with his memories?
The game tells us that loosing maria pushed him over the edge, but the same can't hold true for Shadow? He has to have a spotless record besides fighting sonic?
Then all this time shadow's been carried by his esthatics and vocal performance!
Like many other Sonic adventure 2 stories, they had a decent foundation at a fundamental level, but they ruined it by adding many unnecessary details, case in point, Rouge! She started out simple enough;"catwoman's personality if she had han solo's arc"("all that glitters isn't golden"),but by adding that she's also a g.u.n. agent her actions come off more like the baroness from gi joe;"ruthless,self serving,pragmatism"!
@@erikbihari3625no one cares
@@Smols828. Maybe you should, because good comparisons like this might make sega realise what the characters should stand for! For example, rouge's efforts obtaining the emeralds make her come off extremely cold blooded, all she needs are glasses,one leather spy catsuit, and goggles, then she could pass off baroness!
I really like Sonic and Shadow's dynamic in Prime. They're clearly not enemies and Sonic clearly cares about Shadow (and I'm willing to believe the opposite is also true at least to some extent), but they're also in opposition and their rivalry feels sincere. I find it very cool that Prime managed to strike this balance. Plus it's great to have a character who actually brings out Sonic's snarky side in Prime.
I think the biggest problem with the Sonic Mandates that nobody talks about is the fact they say The Master Emerald isn't any more special than the emeralds. Which means it does litteraly nothing. Which Is... wrong? Like actively.
It at the very least governs powers to the other emeralds as stated in other games.
So like... nah lol
I think shdow works fine now as well. But i can see wanting shadow to have more amicable interactions with the sonic crew. He always reminded me of their older coworker thats seen too much on the job.
I think that the annoying mandates for Shadow being too edgy, might manage to go away sometime after the third movie gets released, because if Paramount tries to be a good amount faithful by showing Shadow being more like he truely was in SA2, and that movie gains big success and praise by fans (especially longtime ones,) for him being shown as a clever grumpy character who is willing to do heroic good stuff at certain times.(especially during serious situations,) That might prove to SEGA that that's the kind of personality that he should be shown with from then on, because of how may people worldwide will likely show a big amount of satisfation with him being shown like that in that highly anticipated upcoming movie. I really hope that that does happen, and I like that he gets shown behaving more like a smart older brother to Sonic in Sonic Prime, instead of like an edgloard.
I fully agree hopefully in the 3rd sonic movie paramount will get shadows personality right
@@Starrmonster02
I think they likely will get Shadow done right mostly because the director (Jeff Fowler,) is a major fan of that iconic character. So that makes me think that if he enjoys Shadow that much he likely won't want Shadow to be done wrongly, and from being the director, he has a good amount of influence over how that movie and any other future Sonic films from that studio, will be made.
@@joeboosta6309 well that’s good and thats really cool that Jeff Fowler is a shadow fan because I kinda have to admit I’m also a big shadow fan also😅
If the second movie can get Knuckles right then the third movie can get Shadow right.
Agreed.
I think Shadow's fine where he currently is. I don't think he needs to be hanging out with team dark MORE because I don't see Shadow just hanging out with people unless their interests align. After all, that's how they first became team dark.
And I think because of that, it's completely acceptable for Shadow to have a preference for Rouge and Omega over the others. That is still highlighted to this day. His other relationships are fine too.
The only thing Shadow needs is prominence in the series again.
Great video! I agree, this portrail of shadow is probably good for his longevity, though I at least hope they tweak a few things here and there.
The thing I hate about Sonic Prime is how they ruined Sonic’s Character. Except when it came to lost world, Sonic was never a bumbling fool who didn’t know how to take things seriously. When things got serious, it was Sonic that took responsibility, and who was quite sensible. In Frontiers, he may have doomed the world, but in that instance, it was in character for him because he was trying to save his friends. The Sonic we grew up with may have listened to Shadow when he tried to reason, not constantly ignore Shadow, and doom the world for no reason while he was at it. They only made Shadow a better character just to take a dump on Sonic, and that’s why I don’t like Sonic Prime. The real Sonic would know when to listen to others, and coordinate with them instead of making a fool of himself with arrogance. They need to focus on writing all the characters the best they could, or it will seem like they are biased towards one character in some way, shape or form. Sonic is not usually the type to get careless, and people need to play some actually good games to fully understand what makes Sonic, Sonic.
1:52 FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE KNOWS, thank you so much
Just wanna preface by saying that this was an interesting video, and I commend you for taking a risk with this hot take.
I disagree because I think his charactrerization is too vague.
1. Shadow's character should not be bound to maria anymore, yet we never find out what his motivations are past 06.
*Conceptually* speaking, the shadow from SA2 is not the same shadow from Heroes onwards. Yes, it's technically the same guy, however we never saw him getting all his memories back and when he did figure out who he used to be he already had 2 whole games of character development. This is why the "Goodbye Forever... Shadow the Hedgehog" at the end of his own game was so powerfull. He was going to forge his own path moving forward and do what he thinks is right, regardless of what happened in his past. He lets go of his destain for GUN and even works alongside them. However, past that, we never actually find out what his "new self" is. Why does he try to save the day? How is his heroesim different to Sonic's. I'm not just talking about the old and dry "the end justifies the means" here, Sonic is fundamentally an ideals driven character. Sonic is about freedom, letting nature take hold and surfing along the winds of time and he fights so that this balance is never broken. This establishes why he fights, who he fights and how he fights them. Shadow never gets any more depth than "he is good now but also kind of grumpy". You mention Shadow "respects but doesn't have to like sonic", that would be fine if you could actually answer why. If Shadow is to be Sonic's rival, then he needs to be as driven through ideals as he is. What else are they rivals about? Power and Speed? That's not interesting since it's confirmed they are equal in both aspects (and we'll get into how that's flawed later). Sonic's personality? Then Shadow would be Jet's biggest rival if anything, that guy even made Sonic mad. That's why his character doesn't work, he is grumpy and aint doing anything about it. You are right, he doesn't need an arc, he desperatelly needs a character instead lmao.
Speaking of which:
2.He doesn't have a character... or anything consistent at all.
Shadow Is confirmed to be as strong and as fast as Sonic, correct? Wouldn't that make him better than Sonic? Think about it, he is a Sonic Clone with EXTRA abilities. Oh right... None of his abilities have established rules. Does he need an emerald or not? Biolizard clearly didn't have to, is that the mythical chaos snap only rule we have no official confirmation of? Does Chaos Boost even exist? IDW showed it might, but was that just a visual reference or not? They also mentioned that shadow is better at chaos control than silver... what? what does that even mean?...
What abilities does he even have? wait, can't shadow fly/hover? He does it in sa2, shadow05(his own game) and 06 and then never happens again. How inteligent is shadow? Heroes and 06 makes him out to be inteligent with a strong sense of leadership and level headedness , he takes initiative multiple times through 06 and served as a guide to silver when blaze wasn't arround (a role now sniped by Espio btw). But wait- I thought shadow was this hot headed individual who never thinks before leaping into action to show "he is the ultimate cool guy who has enough power to not need a brain" which, aside from stealing Knuckle's whole flow, it's inconsistent on a very fundamental level. Hold on, how powerful is shadow even? He can lift a bus in Shadow05 and In 06 he has the same ability as Knuckles, as in, he is able to smash rocks (yes it's a feature they had to code for in specific characters). yet is as powerful as Sonic? In Shadow05 he did the equivalent of the SA2 ending... on his own! And he was fine at the end! 06 and some spinoff portray shadow as being slightly slower than sonic, yet in every other game he is AS fast... WE DON'T EVEN ACTUALLY KNOW HOW FAST HE IS! Maybe he has a strong will? Nah he gives up in IDW and Silver has to motivate HIM.
Wait, is shadow a Speed, flying AND Power type? He is basically his own team! how is he "as strong and capable as sonic"?? No wonder he doesn't interact with Team Dark, they are obsolete if Sega doesn't make his character consistent. And let's not even talk about the inhibitor rings.
Can you believe that canonically Omega is stronger than Shadow? weird to think how he would demolish Sonic by this power-scaling logic. In Sonic Generations, Shadow is little more than a pushover, Sonic X (which was approved by sonic team of the time and is the most character faithful show we have) makes shadow out to be the terminator as he SOLOS TEAM SONIC on THEIR ship.
TL;DR You CAN'T tell me his has "fine characterisation" if we don't even know anything consistent about him. Sorry didn't mean this to get so long.
A mix between Prime, Forces, and 06 is my Shadow. He needs that gritty, ruthless, loner/silent, straight to the point attitude.
Also I agree with your point that Sonic and Shadow are RIVALS. Their ideologies clash and therefore they disagree. Shadow does what is right by any means necessary while Sonic stays within the lines.
Excellent video
Infinite:RIGHT FOOT CLICK YEA HIT THEM WITH THAT GRIDDY
I actually do think Shadow should be friendlier to Sonic. That's not to say they shouldn't but heads. But in SA2 they seemed to have a mutual respect for each other as enemies, and then a type of respect as allies by the end. They had no issues working together. In Heroes, they also did not have much friction in their disagreement. In Shadow The Hedgehog when he's edgy is when he seems to DISLIKE Sonic, which is still not shown much. In that entire game, Shadow doesn't come off as very smart so much as kind've a nuisance to everyone else because of his brash behavior. In 06, he seems OVERLY serious but in a calm manner, and actually comes in to save Sonic from Silver and the 2 simply nod to each other for Sonic to do what he needs to do while Shadow holds off Silver. At the very least THIS dynamic could work best for Modern Sonic and Modern Shadow. That said... we actually don't even SEE Shadow in the modern game a lot. In the Rivals series and Colors DS, they don't interact a lot and we don't see Shadow again until Forces where he, again, actually tries to save Sonic before never being seen by anyone again. (I have a theory about that). Eventually he returns to stop his fake from attacking Sonic, and he doesn't talk down to Sonic. That's the last we got.
Really, all the headbutting is in the comics and Sonic Prime. So maybe I'll change my answer and say I don't think he needs to be friendlier to Sonic, but merely friendlier than what people perceive and disagreeing with what you think they should be like. I do think Shadow should be less angsty and edgy at least in the shallow sense.
On the side note about Tails, I actually rather disliked how on the nose it was. Everyone was like "Oh look they're finally doing something with Tails! Go, Ian Flynn!" and I'm like.... it feels more like they know how the fans feel about Tails since Forces (idk what took the fanbase 10 years to recognize the issue but whatever) and the writers were like "Oh this will be easy. Damage control. Just have the characters point out the thing people don't like so they feel acknowledge and then give that thing the finger and they'll be eating out the palms of our hands". lol
For ME, a better strategy would be to OWN Tails muck up and use it to develop Tails further. In SA1, he was forced to be more independent. In SA2, he was overconfident trying to act tough, then admitted the emerald was fake and was angry and beat Eggman for Sonic. Sonic was alive though, so Tails was relieved. Now Tails feels the need to plan things out and focuses more on his tech to aid Sonic preemptively rather than being in the field. (At least this is how we could retroactively define the events leading up to Forces). You see this even more in Colors, where Sonic pushes Tails out the way for his safety, and Tails worried about losing Sonic. In Lost World, Tails felt angsty and like Sonic didn't believe in him. We could now have an explanation as to why. Especially if Sonic wouldn't listen to Tails and knocked away the conch and also almost fell into a Zeti trap. And in Forces, Tails wasn't able to help Sonic and lost all hope in himself. He stayed away from the resistance because of this, and couldn't even figure out what was wrong with Omega which he blames himself for (not realizing it was Infinite's doing.) And what most people forget is Tails was always afraid of Chaos even when he fought Chaos 4 (alongside Sonic and Knuckles, but now he's alone). So Classic Sonic returned when he used as a crutch.
In Frontiers, I feel like there was the opportunity for Tails and Sonic to talk and Tails to learn that his original burst of confidence wasn't a mistake. It's hard for people to acquire their self esteem. But for people who do it and then still mess up, it's even harder to believe in oneself because it feels like all the negative weaknesses they thought of themselves originally was proven right. Sonic could remind Tails that people can always still fail no matter who they are, but that doesn't mean they have to give up. Tails can learn to accept failure and still move forward.
I disagree on point number 2 entirely while I do get where you are coming from I feel like this more so worked on SA2 cause going forward shadow clearly had an immense amount of respect for sonic towards the end of adventure 2 he even seemed to have grown kinda fond of him not saying they have to be best friends. But I’d prefer more of a Goku Vegeta relationship that they have now . They are friends Vegeta even admits that at the end of the buu saga/Z but they still compete with each others to prove who’s the best and when Goku lets his foolishness get shed of him Vegeta steps in to take over. As much as I know how some people hate the comparison for some odd reason shadows character arc is very similar to Vegetas. Not saying shadow has to be apart of the team and be a family man he can do his own thing and still have major arcs that contribute a lot both to his character and the story. He’s such a popular and good character that it’s sad he rarely gets used anymore because of segas own incompetence.
I agree with you but I didn't know how to put it in words. They don't have to agree in everything, but they could still be... A bit friendlier I think.
The most interesting thing from Sonic adventure 2 is that the relationship was almost reversed. Sonic was the one who minded his own businnes and clearly didn't want anything to do with Shadow. Shadow was the mischievous one, he always teased Sonic but toward the end he was curious toward him, in the whole game it was always Shadow who approached Sonic, never the other way.
For argument 2 I don’t think “friendlier” is the right term. It’s more like wanting Shadow to treat Sonic with a bit more credit and respect and not as an annoying nuisance that can’t do anything right cause Shadow’s arc in SA2 he went from seeing Sonic as beneath him to seeing Sonic as his equal, and in 06 this was shown again by trusting Sonic enough to work with him to escape the future and believing that Sonic would be crucial in saving the world in 06’s last story. They could still disagree and stuff but he shouldn’t be treated Sonic as beneath him anymore.
I think a lot of the problems people have with shadow from the 2010s are greatly exaggerated especially when you actually go back to the games and realize the only time he’s been wildly out of character was in generations and maybe free riders.
Shadow in the 2010s was more irrelevant and not seen often, and because of this I think people got attached to Archie’s depiction of shadow where he and sonic were more friendly to each other (pre genesis wave at least) and now people would rather see that now. But I think people like you said forget they’re supposed to be rivals and what makes them great rivals is that they don’t always see eye to eye. Archie is also the universe that made shadow’s relationship with team dark more like the other teams, family and friend like but in the games they’ve never been depicted like that.
For IDW shadow I think everything about him is in character other than the fact he’s always mad for some reason. Him thinking he’d be immune to the metal virus is fine when we remember that a part of his reason for being mad was to be immune to all diseases. We also then see shadow think back about what sonic told him and regretting not listening to him.
I’d say Prime shadow writes shadow as perfect as it can be with its writing as it’s just normal shadow as he’s been ever since the ending of shadow 05.
5:15 But the point is they respect each other, that's just their dynamic, not one is dumb and the other is better at everything
My biggest problem with Shadow is not how he's characterized but how the characterization is written.
Shadow is absolutely Prideful and would 100% underestimate his opponents because he's the Ultimate Lifeform and Sonic is "reckless". Him getting infected is fine. What isn't fine is that when he gets infected he goes "GAHH NO BUT IM SO COOL *Zombie* " because in a crisis the core character element reveals itself and Shadow *should* at this point go "damn guess I gotta run this off, I thought my biology would have me immune from illness" and it just doesn't fit.
Brooding is fine, but we don't ever know what Shadow is thinking so it kinda just comes off as "look at me im cool" rather than him actually contemplating something
And finally the Sonic Mandates say Shadow doesn't have friends which is objectively just wrong.
I would have even accepted him getting infected and remembering sonics advice about running off the Virus, and instead of going "GAH IM COOL I DONT RUN FROM THINGS" Shadow instead see's Omega and Rouge getting overwhelmed and goes "I'm *not* going to leave them to save myself" and gets infected giving them an opening to save the survivors
Or if you REALLY wanted to make it about Pride, Shadow DOES leave them because he genuinely believes he is the best chance against the Virus and Eggman even while infected and has a learning moment doing what's right and listening to his heart that SONIC could teach him.
Overall that Arc for Shadow was just handled poorly
YES!! THIS!! Thank you for articulating my thoughts!
I don't mind Shadow is characterized as prideful. That's not what I have a problem with in IDW. My problem is that, in Metal Virus, Shadow's "pride" is written as him being idiotic and dumb. Despite the fact that he doesn't have to be written exactly that way. Something which I hope people would stop overlook this and stop blaming only on "mandates"
@ryannathaniel9296 shadows Core character traits should be "protect the people living on the planet" and that moment in IDW betrays that idea.
Honestly in Forces, Shadow has a moment with Infinite that he does remember who he is, and why would he. Shadow is the Ultimate Life Form. He came to do a job, and it got done. Anyone who was in his way got dealt with. And That ironically is how his pride should be written.
@@way2creative Yeah. Ironically, Forces of all games had a good portrayal of Shadow
"Shadow has been a HOT TOPIC of discussion" I see what you did there...
Glad you saw it, cause I sure as hell didn't XD
Me personally, I'll always enjoy the character arc he had in Adventure2 and Sonic Heroes but, I do like this new characteristics of Shadow alot.
This take is gonna be in Lava Reef Zone.
We unleashing the Iblis Trigger with this one!
I think people just aren't sure. We'll believe they fixed his characterization when we see it in an actual game.
It's not that Shadow should be all buddy-buddy with Sonic, it's that the current characterization of Shadow shows next to no respect for him whatsoever. Take the most recent TailsTube video, for instance. Shadow had zero respect for Sonic, was constantly insulting and belittling him, boosting his own ego and arrogance just to spite Sonic, and even said that he found Sonic's mere existence repulsive. It even disgusted him to think of just one nice thing to say about Sonic, and when Tails said that he and Sonic do respect each other and do have a friendship, Shadow scoffed at that and said he'd crush Sonic. His current attitude borders on outright hatred of the blue hedgehog. You can have rival characters who disagree on things and compete with each other without requiring one of them to treat the other like garbage.
I just want to say that another reason why idw dosen't do arcs is propobably beacuse it takes place after forces but before frontiers so that just mkaes things harder in general
For me, Shadow feels like an old serious grandpa to Sonic these days.
Like, he know better, he does better, he doesn't joke around, and he is older.
@@BoneEater5491I think it feels that way cuz Sonic feels like more of a kid in Prime. The way he handles things, it doesn't feel like he's been doing this for years. So Shadow looks greater by comparison.
I agree with this video. Also #moreteamdark
Ill be honest. I dont necessarily have an issue with how Shadow is portrayed in the idw comics.
Now, ive only read up to the fallout of the metal virus arc, but if anything, i feel he can be a bit too hasty in his actions and a little overconfident in his abilities. Those flaws have been a part of Shadow's character since Adventure 2, but it's more glaring in the comics.
Shadow i feel has already completed his arc across multiple games. Now, i feel he is best utilized as a character that has his own methods of getting things done and challenging Sonic's woldview and actions, much like their dynamic in Sonic Prime. They may not see eye to eye, but they respect one another and trust each other enough to do the right thing.
With the anticipation of the 3rd Sonic movie coming out next year, im just glad to see Shadow back in the spotlight again
Side note. Shadow is not even the most Edgy Sonic Character anymore. If you count Sonic Prime I don't think he even top 5 anymore. Maybe.
As for current most Edgy character, it Infinite. Who is painfully one note. How ever I think the proper rival could help flesh him out in far more interesting ways. Infinite is Edgy, lone wolf, angst, able to warp reality to anything, and talks down to everyone. So we need someone who challenge all of that. Someone who power is literally their friends, has an upbeat attitude, and has a wide array of powers and skills to handle anything. The one I have in mind is described as 'confident, kind, courageous, noble, sympathetic and a little smug with a bit of an attitude and mouth. He also cherished his feelings of friendship and the people he had made connections with.'. This may sound like Sonic, but it also describe his adopted son for one game. Emerl the Gizoid. He has the perfect makings to be Infinite's rival. The 2 mirror each other in so many ways, having polar opposite traits in every where but confidences. But there it by looking down on others for Infinite and having confident in the skills he learned from his friends for Emerl.
There just 2 problem. Emerl is dead. And he needs the Chaos emeralds to power him. I say have Tails rebuild him and have him run on Tail's fake Emeralds instead. The same kind Sonic used to do chaos Control in Sonic Adventure 2 battle. He won't have as much power as before, but he can still be vary adaptable. And him getting all 7 Emeralds can temporary return him to full power. But the Banter between these 2 would be amazing where nether can aford take the other seriously do to their pride and what the other is at their core.
Shadow isn't edgy. I think that would go to Zor. Zor is the stereotype of an edgelord. Saying nothing matters. Everything is pointless. Why even bother trying. Etc. Many of the Zeti except for maybe Zavok were all satires of common character tropes. One of them is literally the fat guy who eats a lot.
I always like to think Sonic and Shadow are sorta Friends, but they consider themselves more as Comrades. Similar to Goku and Vegeta
The problem with the argument that he (and the rest of the cast) doesn't need character arcs anymore kinda bugs me because the characters very clearly have been changed to suit the times and the mandates. Amy is written to be more like a Sally Acorn, hyper organized, army leader type with a few hints of her old self. This isn't a bad direction for her character but the issue is how unearned it feels. It didn't feel like we got a character arc for her. She just sorta started being this way after Forces. Would've been good for a storyline in the games or comics to actually show that character arc play out ahead of time. Rather than it just being the new status quo that is sorta explained retroactively.
Tails' character regression and redevelopment don't feel deliberate. They feel more like SEGA hand waving away inconsistencies.
With Shadow, he's written this way because SEGA just doesn't really care for his character. His characterization in Prime is fine. And all, but it's only a matter of time before they change him again. And if that's the case, then character arcs should be very possible.
1:12 I mean he gotta point:-
I agree. Shadow’s current character is fine, and I thought this long before Shadow Generations even released its first trailer. People keep latching on to old outdated complaints just to run they mouth
when you say Shadow in more recent media is a good compromise, do the more recent IDW comic issues count?
In Sonic Prime? sure. In the rest of the franchise? far cry from his glory days. I do agree he needs to meet Sage, and I think I need a fan comic abut the cast reading the Egg Memos.
Ok so, I completely agree with everything you say about the characterization but I have some light notes
1. I wish we got more small arcs like postboot having shadows brother
2. I wish sega realized that sonic is more then just a mascot
3. I don't really get the humor you are doing... it feels like a redditor and tumblr thing of saying the most extreme version of an event in the series
Also, do you have a discord?
I think when it comes to recent like sonic prime shadow in this season 3 in this first episode that was uploaded to TH-cam he was really good and I think the closest your gonna get to a great shadow something like a sonic 06 shadow which besides adventure 2 and heroes was his other best apperence. Team dark wise I think he should hang out with them more but if you really think about it they really are pretty separate anything during heroes and 06 they grew closer sure but shadow is almost always shown with rouge or the whole squad of team dark and even though sega said they weren't friends and don't even like each other the stories with them themselves kinda show it was just a way to try and say shadow don't give a shit he clearly cares but I don't think they should really hang out that much they are the type of friends you see as the like idk how to put it like the adults that spent most of their year raising children and just get around each other every now and then to get a break and have a good time... despite shadow and rouge being together a lot. Honestly though team dark definitely is the best team character wise because they actually act like one, they are soft spoken sure but they can easily tell what's good they are the type of friends who are like the edgy annoying ones but all still really good and know how to be chill with each other without setting each other off. Shadow and Sonic ummm I don't think they hate each other and I don't think they dislike each other tbh I think sonic considers shadow a friend but shadow considers sonic an associate like that one family member you have to be around cuz your parents said you couldn't be in your room the whole time, I think shadow in many ways likes sonic but knows he's just not someone he can really be around around to often and just knows he gets on his nerves a little more I don't think they dislike each other but I do think they have that unspoken bond where as sonic and knuckles have that spoken bond but still have that rough relationship. Also yeah I think it's sweet how shadow is pretty kind to Amy she's like that one character that could probably keep him calm and tbh I think shadow considers her a friend but again just not someone to hang out with but does find her more tolerable
Define current. Because TV show that takes place in the somewhat distant past and technically never happened doesn't count.
Thank you for addressing this topic! Glad someone else thankfully recognizes that Shadow’s poor characterization in the Metal Virus arc was due to Sega’s mandates and not just half-assed decisions by the writers. Though, I do wonder why long, grand-standing franchises like Sonic don’t need to give their characters arcs or meanings to their stories anymore. I’m not saying I completely disagree because it’s a good point, but there are examples of franchises such as Zelda and partially even Mario that do exactly that.
Overall, this video is a great one and I’m honestly just glad there are people out there who have a much more reasonable and understanding look on Shadow’s character. It’s great to see!
Pog
Is friends with Rouge and Omega ❌
Respects Sonic ❌
Goku is a static protagonist....really dude. 🤦♂
his voice sucks, that’s my issue with prime shadow