Guys, as a three year newb, I am grateful for the concise info. Three years of on coarse interviews have given me a general understanding of Disc Golf. Your videos are cleaning up my knowlege of the game. Thank you.
Brilliantly done! Thanks very much. For the other 95% of the world now... 1 extra km/h of release speed = ~1.4 metres of extra distance. It'd be great if, in the future, you'd include SI units for the non-Americans.
What I want to know is how do MVP discs come into play in this concept. Would love to see him do an in depth study of the gyro tech in accordance with the disc weight and stability
Tremendous video. What I like about these videos is how everything you do is data based, spot on the matter and no subjective matters of preference. You deliver the data, and leave the preferences and choices to the viewers. Great stuff. You make the life of a disc golfer so much more easy and understandable.
Just came across this and the timing is amazing, I recently started decreasing weight on all my distance drivers. At 54 and 60lbs over weight I am trying to decrease the amount of effort I need to throw, I now only step into my cross step(no run up) plant and throw. My current experimental bag has 2-Ballista Pro 157,2-enforcer 156,159,2-Tresspass 158, 1 King 150 and 4- Bolt ranging from 156 to 159. Obviously all Air plastic. I am reaching 350-375 with my Ballista Pro,King and Bolts. This selection of disc allows me me to hit any line I need. The Ballista Pro can handle heavy head winds at 157 and is becoming my favorite overall disc.
Great vid! I have some ideas... It'll be cool to see the differences between all available plastics from each company in terms of wear, stability, "dominess"/flatness, and how they affect flight over time. Also a video about how fade works and how overstable discs can be "beaten straight". Another about release angle from hyzer spike to light hyzer, hyzer flip, to anhyzer. How they affect different discs and how some can be better for each throw. Thanks!
Mako S I agree. Disc wear is a big thing in disc golf. I have this whole season DX in your car theory. Its funny how the same disc in champ vs Star for can be very different throws.
Mako S How about one on how altitude affects flight? We sometimes play at elevations from 7 to 9,000 feet and my drivers have different flight patterns from when I throw them at my home course which is just under 4,000 ft.
Simon set the record with the guts disc at the nation collegiate disc golf championship like 15 days before this was posted and I was there. It was terrifying how fast he threw it. There's a video of it as well. There was guys trying to catch it. I believe that was another record they were trying to break. Fastest guts disc caught. I can't remember if that was set or not.
Another great video. I am still voting for a wind difference video. Like the difference from a tail wind coming over non-throwing shoulder as oppose to throwing shoulder. The difference between a left to right cross as oppose to a head wind, on a rhbh. Both of those being a "turn-over" wind but resulting in drastically different flight paths.
Great videos! I'd be very interesting to know how a disc flight is overstable or understable. Why the disc is overstable when thrown in tailwind or up hill. Why the disc is understable when thrown in headwind or down hill ?? Also why a disc gets more understable when thrown a lot. Why the wear makes it more understable.
Another home run video! Great information, and in an easy-to-understand format. As I said in the comments for the first video, I hope you'll do something to talk about uphill and downhill shots, which is huge for me on my home course and its hills.
Listened to this early fall and decided to throw lighter discs. Great video and finally I can see a little bit how numbers correspond to the flight. Improving and using this method of lighter discs is a great tool. 1st birdie, 147 gram Beast X DX plastic. My favorite disc is my Opto Air Diamond Light 135 g. Next my Innova Dragon (always 150 g) and I have 8 various fairway and distance drivers all 150 g and under in DX plastic. Good choice on my learning path. Thank you for your contribution. Without your video I would not have known
So this might explain something...I lost my Viking driver disc which I think was weighted somewhere in the 170s. I bought a new one at 166 gm. It seems when I throw this one, it carries much more to the right than the heavier one I had. But I seem to be getting more distance, which I also attribute to some technique improvements as well...It's just a little difficult when I was used to the heavier one staying straighter and fading back to the left more
Christopher Cooper Chris I don't think the pros even change putters when conditions are windy. They know their specific mold SO well that they just adjust release angle/speed etc. accordingly, wouldn't ya think?
Love all the physics discussed. One important element I did not hear in the video is aerodynamics and drag. A disc is a flying spinning wing and a wing generates lift. Lift generates drag. The heavier an object is the more lift it must create to stay aloft. The more lift something creates the more drag it creates. This is known as induced drag. Induced drag will slow an object in flight. Therefore, the greater the weight of the disc, the more lift it needs to create to counteract it's weight, and the more induced drag it will create. This is one reason why weight is such a huge factor in commercial airplanes. The heavier the airplane, the more induced drag it will have in cruise and this means more fuel burn $$$. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-induced_drag
Thank you for your first two uploads. This is exactly the type of video I've been looking for to prove to my engineer friend that his theory of heavier discs always fly faster and further wrong :-D
One major oversight here is air resistance... while a lighter disc will have a faster release speed it will also drop speed faster due to air resistance meaning you will see it roughly cancel out and give about the same overall distance. The exception to this is with heavy tailwind, this is also why those world distance records you mention are done not only with light discs, but with light discs throwing with HEAVY tailwind in an open desert... overall takeaway is that you should really use max weight discs assuming you have the power to get a proper flight out of them, why? because they are more reliable and predictable and you're not really sacrificing any distance... Other than that light weight discs are really only beneficial in strong tailwinds, so maybe keep one around for that...
Great vid! How about a tutorial on disc and shot selection for different wind directions? Ron Convers' article on Discraft's website is great, but some video diagrams would be helpful
thanks for the video. I would love to see more data on what the pros use as far as disc selection and weight. also, my girlfriend would love some data on female pros.
awesome video... so I have a question related to this...all discs have flight characteristics ex. star wraith 11,5,-1,3 my question is how many MPH is an 11 speed disc...because what i have learned from playing for about 8 years that if you stay consistent with your speed according to the disc the flight pattern becomes very predictable... what i mean by this is if i want to turn my wraith over and do more of a flex hyzer shot i am trying to throw it flatter with about a speed 12-13...i am just wondering if we had a baseline speed like speed 5 = 40MPH....while practicing we might be able to figure out what exactly 40 MPH speed feels like on our body and become more predictable while throwing... thanks
GPKIII69 Even if we had the MPH to Disc Speed ratio, how would you monitor your speed during a round? Would you carry around a speed gun? Ya know? ... I'm all about data capture, but knowing the mph I feel wouldn't do me any good.
Helpful stuff. Is there a clear advantage to using a heavier disc when throwing a long downhill shot? The courses I play have a few cliff like shots and I am having trouble selecting the right weight and stability to get a nice straight shot, rather than fading too early or producing too much turn.
+Joseph Flynn The primary adjustment I would recommend is to reduce Glide. The challenge with downhill holes is that level flights end up very high off the ground as the ground drops away, resulting in a large fade. Reducing Glide will better allow the disc to slowly drop as the ground also drops.
When you throw uphill, the disc speed is reduced by gravity so the disc behaves more overstable. When throwing downhill, gravity pulls the disc which "increases" speed so then the disc will behave more understable. So if you use a driver for downhill, pick a more understable one than what you would use on level ground. But if you can, a putter is always the straightest option and will fade the least. Hyzer is also a good option for downhill if you have the line and can reach with far enough with it. I also like to throw a long straight shot which goes right of the pin and let the fade bring the disc to the target area when it naturally starts to fade in the end. That's pretty consistent shot if the hole permits it.
Another great video! I hadn't seen the Pozzy data before. For a more in depth discussion of the physics of flying discs, see Sarah Ann Hummel's Masters thesis: Frisbee Flight Simulation and Throw Biomechanics.
Hey, BDGD -- I love your tutorials and I've learned a ton. I have a question regrading your force calculation for accelerating a heavier vs. lighter golf disc, in that it doesn't seem to take into account the weight of the arm/hand that is doing the throwing. There must be a point where going lighter with the disc doesn't yield any greater release velocity simply because the hand can't be accelerated any faster by the rest of the body, even if the hand is empty. (Otherwise I should be able to make my empty hand move over 100 mph, and I'm pretty sure I can't.) Do you have any idea where the sweet spot is when the weight of the disc becomes enough proportional to the weight of the hand throwing it to make a difference in arm speed and therefore release velocity?
Hi Mike -- thanks for the support! To your point, there must be a weight at which there is no incremental acceleration. While we do know empirically that acceleration gains are realized down to the lowest legal disc weight (130g), I don't have any data regarding what happens with discs that fall outside of the legal weight ranges, so I can't say definitively at exactly what weight the gains would theoretically disappear.
Right now, a radar gun is really the only way to know, but I have seen some work on an app that plots speed vectors using your phone's video camera! (not available yet)
You say that 'more speed equals more turn over'. However, I find that--in addition to speed--spin rate plays and equal, if not greater, role in turn. (e.g. I throw much FASTER than my son, and a bit further, but he has far more spin and turn than I.) Granted, for those with perfect mechanics and release, the addition release velocity naturally produces more spin. But many of us are not at that point.
Doesn't a lighter weight disc also slow down faster in the air because of wind resistance? Sure it comes out of your hand faster but that doesn't guarantee anything. And throws in the desert with insane tailwinds don't really prove anything. I feel like you can only see the answer in normal window conditions
Going back thru the vids I first watched when i started 2.5 yrs ago now that I'm a so called advanced player. One good tournament and and now Im getting my a$$ handed to me
Awesome vid! As a chemistry major, I really liked all the science and physics involved. One suggestion I have is to include a horizontal distance axis on the fight graphs so we can get an idea of how far over the turn or wind is going to push that lighter disc. I understand that it generally turns more to the right, but on the course, knowing a bit more precisely what the distances are can really be beneficial for a player. Other than that, everything was awesome!
MINAESTBOY yes kind of, the trade off again is less consistent putts, or throws. I can get a 159g pa3 about 100 ft putting with my normal spin out where if it was my normal max weight pa3 I would have to jump put, but this isn't very reliable, if there is any wind it will get blown off course. the same goes with driving with putters, they normally do not have great wind resistance so the trade off would not be worth it. technically yes it would add more distance but no not worth it.
You seem to not value a turn over disc. or the benefits of having less molds in the bag by carrying the same disc in different weights for different shots.
Hi Jay, thanks for sharing your concern! I would encourage you to watch the other videos in our Disc Selection series, as we do cover each of those concepts (and their merits) in much more detail.
Guys, as a three year newb, I am grateful for the concise info. Three years of on coarse interviews have given me a general understanding of Disc Golf. Your videos are cleaning up my knowlege of the game. Thank you.
Brilliantly done! Thanks very much.
For the other 95% of the world now... 1 extra km/h of release speed = ~1.4 metres of extra distance.
It'd be great if, in the future, you'd include SI units for the non-Americans.
What I want to know is how do MVP discs come into play in this concept. Would love to see him do an in depth study of the gyro tech in accordance with the disc weight and stability
Great video! Finally, someone actually goes into the physics of disc selection. This was really fantastic work. Well done.
Your videos completely changed my understanding of golf discs. Looking forward to future ones.
Tremendous video. What I like about these videos is how everything you do is data based, spot on the matter and no subjective matters of preference. You deliver the data, and leave the preferences and choices to the viewers. Great stuff. You make the life of a disc golfer so much more easy and understandable.
Thanks for the feedback! Providing fact-based guides (vs. opinion based) had always been our goal!
Just came across this and the timing is amazing, I recently started decreasing weight on all my distance drivers. At 54 and 60lbs over weight I am trying to decrease the amount of effort I need to throw, I now only step into my cross step(no run up) plant and throw. My current experimental bag has 2-Ballista Pro 157,2-enforcer 156,159,2-Tresspass 158, 1 King 150 and 4- Bolt ranging from 156 to 159. Obviously all Air plastic.
I am reaching 350-375 with my Ballista Pro,King and Bolts. This selection of disc allows me me to hit any line I need. The Ballista Pro can handle heavy head winds at 157 and is becoming my favorite overall disc.
Great vid! I have some ideas...
It'll be cool to see the differences between all available plastics from each company in terms of wear, stability, "dominess"/flatness, and how they affect flight over time.
Also a video about how fade works and how overstable discs can be "beaten straight". Another about release angle from hyzer spike to light hyzer, hyzer flip, to anhyzer. How they affect different discs and how some can be better for each throw.
Thanks!
Mako S I agree. Disc wear is a big thing in disc golf. I have this whole season DX in your car theory. Its funny how the same disc in champ vs Star for can be very different throws.
Mako S How about one on how altitude affects flight? We sometimes play at elevations from 7 to 9,000 feet and my drivers have different flight patterns from when I throw them at my home course which is just under 4,000 ft.
Simon set the record with the guts disc at the nation collegiate disc golf championship like 15 days before this was posted and I was there. It was terrifying how fast he threw it. There's a video of it as well. There was guys trying to catch it. I believe that was another record they were trying to break. Fastest guts disc caught. I can't remember if that was set or not.
Awesome detail and great explanation! Can you please do one on selecting a Midrange?
Another great video. I am still voting for a wind difference video. Like the difference from a tail wind coming over non-throwing shoulder as oppose to throwing shoulder. The difference between a left to right cross as oppose to a head wind, on a rhbh. Both of those being a "turn-over" wind but resulting in drastically different flight paths.
OUTSTANDING videos. Thank you. These explain a lot and really help in choosing discs in the proper weight and stability for a given arm speed.
This is the best video / information regarding disc golf I have ever seen! Thank you for creating it!
I love this guys lectures! I wish my professors would have been so clear.
Great videos!
I'd be very interesting to know how a disc flight is overstable or understable. Why the disc is overstable when thrown in tailwind or up hill. Why the disc is understable when thrown in headwind or down hill ??
Also why a disc gets more understable when thrown a lot. Why the wear makes it more understable.
Another home run video! Great information, and in an easy-to-understand format. As I said in the comments for the first video, I hope you'll do something to talk about uphill and downhill shots, which is huge for me on my home course and its hills.
These videos are awesome. Looks like I’m going to be buying some new discs soon. I learn a lot from these.
Fantastic explanation and visuals that pretty much anyone can understand.
Listened to this early fall and decided to throw lighter discs. Great video and finally I can see a little bit how numbers correspond to the flight. Improving and using this method of lighter discs is a great tool. 1st birdie, 147 gram Beast X DX plastic. My favorite disc is my Opto Air Diamond Light 135 g. Next my Innova Dragon (always 150 g) and I have 8 various fairway and distance drivers all 150 g and under in DX plastic. Good choice on my learning path. Thank you for your contribution. Without your video I would not have known
An Opto Air Diamond Light 143g completely changed my teen-aged son's game. He loves that disc and I'm thinking of getting one myself.
So this might explain something...I lost my Viking driver disc which I think was weighted somewhere in the 170s. I bought a new one at 166 gm. It seems when I throw this one, it carries much more to the right than the heavier one I had. But I seem to be getting more distance, which I also attribute to some technique improvements as well...It's just a little difficult when I was used to the heavier one staying straighter and fading back to the left more
Great videos! I'd love to see one on the science of selecting a putter for windy conditions!
Christopher Cooper Chris I don't think the pros even change putters when conditions are windy. They know their specific mold SO well that they just adjust release angle/speed etc. accordingly, wouldn't ya think?
Love all the physics discussed. One important element I did not hear in the video is aerodynamics and drag. A disc is a flying spinning wing and a wing generates lift. Lift generates drag. The heavier an object is the more lift it must create to stay aloft. The more lift something creates the more drag it creates. This is known as induced drag. Induced drag will slow an object in flight. Therefore, the greater the weight of the disc, the more lift it needs to create to counteract it's weight, and the more induced drag it will create. This is one reason why weight is such a huge factor in commercial airplanes. The heavier the airplane, the more induced drag it will have in cruise and this means more fuel burn $$$. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-induced_drag
I love the thorough scientific approach. So much great info! Nice work🤙
Thank you for your first two uploads. This is exactly the type of video I've been looking for to prove to my engineer friend that his theory of heavier discs always fly faster and further wrong :-D
so helpful for a beginner looking to buy his first more expensive discs!!
Where did you go? Your videos are my favorite!
Extremely informative. Thank you!
One major oversight here is air resistance... while a lighter disc will have a faster release speed it will also drop speed faster due to air resistance meaning you will see it roughly cancel out and give about the same overall distance. The exception to this is with heavy tailwind, this is also why those world distance records you mention are done not only with light discs, but with light discs throwing with HEAVY tailwind in an open desert... overall takeaway is that you should really use max weight discs assuming you have the power to get a proper flight out of them, why? because they are more reliable and predictable and you're not really sacrificing any distance... Other than that light weight discs are really only beneficial in strong tailwinds, so maybe keep one around for that...
That is a lot of technical data for disc golf. I was always curious what the different weights give in disc flight
Great vid! How about a tutorial on disc and shot selection for different wind directions? Ron Convers' article on Discraft's website is great, but some video diagrams would be helpful
This was fantastic. Thank you!
Awesome video! Very simple and informative.
so it would be good to have maybe the lightest the middle and the heaviest of your favorite drivers handy?
Fantastic video! Its almost like i asked for it and here it is : )
Thank you for providing this coherent factual video. I watched 6 videos of gibber jabber before finding this gem.
This will help me so much more because I learn more by statistics, and I think this is perfect for me.
when you have the sticky note drop down saying "that's for another video" can we have a link to said video?
Good idea! Will do!
thanks for the video. I would love to see more data on what the pros use as far as disc selection and weight. also, my girlfriend would love some data on female pros.
awesome video...
so I have a question related to this...all discs have flight characteristics ex. star wraith 11,5,-1,3 my question is how many MPH is an 11 speed disc...because what i have learned from playing for about 8 years that if you stay consistent with your speed according to the disc the flight pattern becomes very predictable...
what i mean by this is if i want to turn my wraith over and do more of a flex hyzer shot i am trying to throw it flatter with about a speed 12-13...i am just wondering if we had a baseline speed like speed 5 = 40MPH....while practicing we might be able to figure out what exactly 40 MPH speed feels like on our body and become more predictable while throwing...
thanks
GPKIII69 Even if we had the MPH to Disc Speed ratio, how would you monitor your speed during a round? Would you carry around a speed gun? Ya know? ... I'm all about data capture, but knowing the mph I feel wouldn't do me any good.
great video! really was insightful
Great video!
Helpful stuff. Is there a clear advantage to using a heavier disc when throwing a long downhill shot? The courses I play have a few cliff like shots and I am having trouble selecting the right weight and stability to get a nice straight shot, rather than fading too early or producing too much turn.
+Joseph Flynn The primary adjustment I would recommend is to reduce Glide. The challenge with downhill holes is that level flights end up very high off the ground as the ground drops away, resulting in a large fade. Reducing Glide will better allow the disc to slowly drop as the ground also drops.
Sounds like a good plan. I have a few lower glide discs that I can try out. Thanks for the follow up!
Joseph Flynn use a putter or ur straightest mid
When you throw uphill, the disc speed is reduced by gravity so the disc behaves more overstable. When throwing downhill, gravity pulls the disc which "increases" speed so then the disc will behave more understable. So if you use a driver for downhill, pick a more understable one than what you would use on level ground. But if you can, a putter is always the straightest option and will fade the least.
Hyzer is also a good option for downhill if you have the line and can reach with far enough with it.
I also like to throw a long straight shot which goes right of the pin and let the fade bring the disc to the target area when it naturally starts to fade in the end. That's pretty consistent shot if the hole permits it.
Where is the Line of the Avenger SS from ? I know i complete different
Another great video! I hadn't seen the Pozzy data before. For a more in depth discussion of the physics of flying discs, see Sarah Ann Hummel's Masters thesis: Frisbee Flight Simulation and Throw Biomechanics.
Hey, BDGD -- I love your tutorials and I've learned a ton. I have a question regrading your force calculation for accelerating a heavier vs. lighter golf disc, in that it doesn't seem to take into account the weight of the arm/hand that is doing the throwing. There must be a point where going lighter with the disc doesn't yield any greater release velocity simply because the hand can't be accelerated any faster by the rest of the body, even if the hand is empty. (Otherwise I should be able to make my empty hand move over 100 mph, and I'm pretty sure I can't.) Do you have any idea where the sweet spot is when the weight of the disc becomes enough proportional to the weight of the hand throwing it to make a difference in arm speed and therefore release velocity?
Hi Mike -- thanks for the support! To your point, there must be a weight at which there is no incremental acceleration. While we do know empirically that acceleration gains are realized down to the lowest legal disc weight (130g), I don't have any data regarding what happens with discs that fall outside of the legal weight ranges, so I can't say definitively at exactly what weight the gains would theoretically disappear.
I would like to see how we can c what my speed is when I throw a disk
Right now, a radar gun is really the only way to know, but I have seen some work on an app that plots speed vectors using your phone's video camera! (not available yet)
I can't wait for a glide video explained.
+Brandon Swan -- We are working on the Glide video now, and I think it shaping up to be my favorite so far!
So I'm throwing a max weight 4X Destroyer about 375-400. What disc do i grab that's more OS to drop weight?? :P
Lighter discs are definitely less predictable and harder to control, especially with even a slight side or head wind.
You say that 'more speed equals more turn over'. However, I find that--in addition to speed--spin rate plays and equal, if not greater, role in turn. (e.g. I throw much FASTER than my son, and a bit further, but he has far more spin and turn than I.) Granted, for those with perfect mechanics and release, the addition release velocity naturally produces more spin. But many of us are not at that point.
Great vid. Thank you!
Is this Ian Anderson(famous flute player and CCDG commentator) giving the analysis?
Awesome......thank you
great thank you so much
Awesome videos!!
Doesn't a lighter weight disc also slow down faster in the air because of wind resistance? Sure it comes out of your hand faster but that doesn't guarantee anything. And throws in the desert with insane tailwinds don't really prove anything. I feel like you can only see the answer in normal window conditions
do all discs have the weight on them? if so where can you find them?
Yes, almost every disc has the weight in grams written in pen/marker on the underside of the disc near the center
Oh thanks, I wondered what that was
Love this video
You all should do a video on throwing a thomahawk
and or a thumber
+Vince Bentfield A video on Overhand throws/discs is definitely being planned!
Going back thru the vids I first watched when i started 2.5 yrs ago now that I'm a so called advanced player. One good tournament and and now Im getting my a$$ handed to me
Wow! From new player to advanced in 2.5 years - nice progression!
Best Disc Golf Discs no kids 😜
Awesome vid! As a chemistry major, I really liked all the science and physics involved. One suggestion I have is to include a horizontal distance axis on the fight graphs so we can get an idea of how far over the turn or wind is going to push that lighter disc. I understand that it generally turns more to the right, but on the course, knowing a bit more precisely what the distances are can really be beneficial for a player. Other than that, everything was awesome!
Downwind discs?
thx
How do I know how much feet I go at 37 mph
Hi Louis: you are using a radar gun, correct? Can you tell us what disc you currently drive with, and how far your 37mph drives typically go?
As an engineering major I’m surprised I never thought of this lol
Do same with putter?😀
MINAESTBOY yes kind of, the trade off again is less consistent putts, or throws. I can get a 159g pa3 about 100 ft putting with my normal spin out where if it was my normal max weight pa3 I would have to jump put, but this isn't very reliable, if there is any wind it will get blown off course. the same goes with driving with putters, they normally do not have great wind resistance so the trade off would not be worth it. technically yes it would add more distance but no not worth it.
Awesome
great
So buy the blizzard,gotcha.
You seem to not value a turn over disc. or the benefits of having less molds in the bag by carrying the same disc in different weights for different shots.
Hi Jay, thanks for sharing your concern! I would encourage you to watch the other videos in our Disc Selection series, as we do cover each of those concepts (and their merits) in much more detail.
GLIDE RATING!!!!
We really need a Yale course on disc physics at this point.
A lot of mathematics involved in disc golf.
Brain = Fried