Going through this slowly is so helpful. In a debate, Steve Gregg insisted that Romans 1 only applies to unbelievers who "suppress the truth". He then kept cutting off James White when he tried to explain why the thought carries through Romans 3 and all men are in view!
I have a question for anyone who can provide a biblical answer. Im having trouble with understanding the "universality" of Romans 1:18 - 32. I agree with James that it's speaking of all mankind in vs.18 - 23. But how do you explain the transition into the sin of homosexuality and the other list of sins from v.24? Surely all mankind is not homosexuals? What am I missing?? The "them" whom God gave over - in vs.24, 26, 28 can't be the same "them" in v.19 and "they" in v.20 -21. Where is the transition?
Romans 8:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Their hearts became darker because they isupressed the truth of God. We were not born God haters.
Thanks for sharing your view on these scriptures. Maybe I’m missing something here but how can you darken a foolish heart if it is (dead) totally depraved, if it is blind and deaf ? Is it some kind of double darkness,deadness or double blindness or double deafness?
I'd recommend reading the Canons of Dort, which is the primary source of the doctrine for which TULIP seeks to remind us of. The 'Total' in total depravity isn't a claim of the quantity of our depravity such that we cannot be any more depraved. Rather it is a claim to the extent of our depravity. I liken it to mixing a spoonful of salt into a glass of water. Is the water saturated with salt? No, you can still mix in several more spoonfuls and the water can become saltier. But is there any part of the water where the salt has not affected it? No, the spread of the salt is total, no part of the water is free from salt. (The Bible uses the same metaphor, except using the elements of bread and yeast.) So are we as evil as we can possibly be? No, we can become much much worse. But is there any part of us that sin has not touched? No, sin has reached every part of our being (the totality of our being) such that there is no aspect that is untainted by sin.
@@jamessheffield4173 Sorry, so no, strictly, speaking, they don't. The invisible qualities and outward display, I mean - albeit under a 'glass darkly'. They show Adam's invisible qualities, and Eve's, and the Apple's, and the serpent's, just as well. And what is a 'natural man', too? Whilst, also, why did this whole method, not work, with numerous angels?
Why this logical jump from ignoring natural signs to worshipping created things to making idols to homosexuality? It seems like being gay isn't directly related to idolatry. Does anyone have some insight on this? Thanks
How does everyone miss this, the wrath of God is being revealed against all ungodliness, meaning, US and the world. He is addressing US in chapter 2 comparing us metaphorically with Israel. Only Christians KNOW Him, therefore, who do you really think this passage is talking to?
@@timothyvenable3336 I think that comes from people forgetting how God uses types and shadows to show us things. If you read the beginning of chapter 1 it is clearly a letter written to believers and many times throughout the letter Paul says ,"for the Jew first and also for the Greek" showing us the type and shadow of , " for the believer first and also for the unbeliever". This false dichotomy is prevalent inost evangelical teaching but is wrong. We are spiritual Israel and those chapters are talking to us.
@@3BadBostons that makes sense… not sure I fully agree though. I feel like if you use proper hermeneutics, you can still come to the conclusion that “the Jew” and “Israel” most of the time actually means ethnic and historic Israel… but I could be wrong. You raised a good point
@@timothyvenable3336 I spent decades using good hermeneutics and what I found that helped me understand scripture the most is trust in the Lord and memorizing or better internalizing scripture. God rude His word intentionally for us to need His Spirit for interpretation. It took me about 3 years to memorize Romans but it is the best thing I ever did for understanding.
For a long time I have denied the Augustinian, Roman Catholic teaching of original sin. I do not hold to being born with a sin nature. I used to, I really did. Why the change? Becuase it is not a doctrine that the Bible teaches. Soooo... WHY, if babies do not have a sin nature, are not born with original sin, does every single person born, eventually sin? BECAUSE THEY HAVE SINFUL PARENTS! Parents who are hypocrites, unjustn liars, smokers, who swear, drink in excess, are selfish and on and on and on. ( I cannot possibly mention every sin that exists) We all, even Christians, teach our children to sin.
Back sliding scripture. Romans 1 21-25 Who THEY ARE and WHO THEY ARE NOT. KJB Romans 1.........57ad [21] Because that, WHEN they KNEW God, they glorified him NOT as God, neither were thankful; but BECAME VAIN in their IMAGINATIONS, and their foolish heart WAS DARKENED. [22] Professing themselves to be wise, they BECAME FOOLS, [23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an IMAGE made like to CORRUPTIBLE man , and to BIRDS, and FOURFOOTED BEASTS, and CREEPING things. [24] Wherefore God also GAVE THEM UP to UNCLEANNESS through the LUSTS of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: [25] Who changed the truth of God into a LIE, and worshipped and served the CREATURE MORE than the CREATOR, who is blessed for ever. Amen Paul switched gears from 20 to 21 as he did 17 to 18. Who "THEY" are and who "THEY" are NOT. Lets squeeze blood from a turnip. The UNSAVED always have been vain in thier imaginations. They never ever glorified God. They always had dark hearts. They were always unwise. They were always fools. They always made images. They were always corruptible. They were always unclean in their hearts mind and soul. They were always lustful They always dishonored their own bodies between themselves. (Sin) They were always liars. The unsaved knew OF OF OF God but never KNEW God. God never walks away from the unsaved. There has to be a relationship in place to walk away from. What did the UNSAVED ever have to lose when they never had it to begin with? You cant squeeze blood out of a turnip. Now read 21-25 with the saved in mind. It will make alot more sense. Pay attention to the past tense grammar. The saved has things to lose as the unsaved dont. Cause they never had it. Their soul is already lost without salvation. Romans 1 21-25 is not talking about the unsaved. Its talking about the saved backsliding from idolatry with live people, creatures, statues, sinning against themselves, etc. and not confessing and repenting from their wicked ways thus losing their salvation because of it. Verse 24. Since the resurrection of Jesus Christ, there has been ONLY ONE WAY TO KNOW God. SALVATION. Paul and the Holy spirit would never use the words "KNEW GOD" loosely and contradict the words of Jesus in John 14 by implying we can KNOW God by His creation only. KNOWN OF GOD. 19. It is impossible to KNOW someone if you never met them and never had a relationship with. But only to know OF OF them. In 21 did God say "because that when they knew OF God"?? NO Romans 1 KJB 57 AD [21] Because that, WHEN they KNEW God ^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^ God said right here that they KNEW HIM. This means SAVED. Gods words. Will we deny HIS WORDS AS IT IS WRITTEN???? John 14 KJB [6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. [7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. To KNOW GOD MEANS SAVED. TO KNOW OF GOD MEANS UNSAVED. Knowing OF God means just knowing theres a supreme being because of his creation. Romans 1 21-25 is about the saved who backslid (turned back) and didn't confess and repent from their wicked ways daily and lost their salvation because of it. Verse 24. THE MESSAGE? Salvation is not a license to sin and NOT confess and repent daily. Hebrews 10 KJB [26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. Knowledge of the truth means JESUS because He is the truth and sacrifice. John 14 KJB [6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life. One WILL lose their salvation from ABANDONING their FAITH by not turning from their wicked ways. Goes with verse 24 Verse 25 Changed the truth of God into a LIE means claiming salvation but doing what they want when they want without confess and repenting. Matthew 5 KJB [27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: [28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. This means if one imagines ANY sin from his heart, he's guilty of that sin on the spot. This is why we confess and Repent daily. We are daily sinners. 1 John 1 KJB [8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [9] If we CONFESS our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1Samuel 15 KJB [23] For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king. The OSAS camp is still rebelling against God. Confess and repent daily. Any unconfessed sin remains unforgiven. The goal here is deliverance. There are no contradictions in the KJV HOLY BIBLE. In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
If Romans one and 1 Corinthians 6 are talking about the same thing you have a massive problem. One says you are turned over and one says you were washed
So much for inborn Total Depravity (TD) and the supposed inability to respond to apologetics. What JW says about Romans 1:19-21 (what the Bible itself says) refutes this reformed dogma. How can someone "glorify God" who is incapable of faith? LOL! Depending on who he has an issue with he will flip his diatribe. Laughable and sad.
If you believe being held responsible for this necessitates being able to do it, you are just reading your own position into the verse. As a reformed person, I don't assume this means they actually can glorify God, and the words of this verse do not make that assertion.
Being condemned to eternal perdition for not doing something implies the ability. Add in the Reformed teaching of God decreeing these pagan's evil desires and concomitant actions and of course you are going to develop an illogical adhoc response of "...doesn't require ability". It's nothing but absurd sophistry. Laughable and demonic.
Original sin has more empirical evidence than many scientific theories.
James Sheffield can you please elaborate a little bit on your understanding of original sin?
@Gideon Peyton More sin in the world.
This is the most crucial, needed exegesis of our time or any time.
Hey guys. Thanks again for these highlights videos. They are great to watch when I only have 20 minutes or so.
This chapter has opened my eyes to the importance of worldview.
Going through this slowly is so helpful. In a debate, Steve Gregg insisted that Romans 1 only applies to unbelievers who "suppress the truth". He then kept cutting off James White when he tried to explain why the thought carries through Romans 3 and all men are in view!
This kind of exegesis of Romans 1 revolutionized my thinking and the way I communicate to non-believers.
I have a question for anyone who can provide a biblical answer.
Im having trouble with understanding the "universality" of Romans 1:18 - 32.
I agree with James that it's speaking of all mankind in vs.18 - 23. But how do you explain the transition into the sin of homosexuality and the other list of sins from v.24? Surely all mankind is not homosexuals? What am I missing?? The "them" whom God gave over - in vs.24, 26, 28 can't be the same "them" in v.19 and "they" in v.20 -21. Where is the transition?
Romans 8:21
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Their hearts became darker because they isupressed the truth of God. We were not born God haters.
Thanks for sharing your view on these scriptures. Maybe I’m missing something here but how can you darken a foolish heart if it is (dead) totally depraved, if it is blind and deaf ? Is it some kind of double darkness,deadness or double blindness or double deafness?
I'd recommend reading the Canons of Dort, which is the primary source of the doctrine for which TULIP seeks to remind us of. The 'Total' in total depravity isn't a claim of the quantity of our depravity such that we cannot be any more depraved. Rather it is a claim to the extent of our depravity.
I liken it to mixing a spoonful of salt into a glass of water. Is the water saturated with salt? No, you can still mix in several more spoonfuls and the water can become saltier. But is there any part of the water where the salt has not affected it? No, the spread of the salt is total, no part of the water is free from salt. (The Bible uses the same metaphor, except using the elements of bread and yeast.)
So are we as evil as we can possibly be? No, we can become much much worse. But is there any part of us that sin has not touched? No, sin has reached every part of our being (the totality of our being) such that there is no aspect that is untainted by sin.
2 Timothy 3:13
“But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.”
@@jamessheffield4173 Sorry, so no, strictly, speaking, they don't. The invisible qualities and outward display, I mean - albeit under a 'glass darkly'.
They show Adam's invisible qualities, and Eve's, and the Apple's, and the serpent's, just as well.
And what is a 'natural man', too?
Whilst, also, why did this whole method, not work, with numerous angels?
@@chrissonofpear1384 I give you a TULIP. Blessings.
"We transitioned into providing an exegetical explanation of Romans 1 starting verse 18." Why not start at the beginning?
Why this logical jump from ignoring natural signs to worshipping created things to making idols to homosexuality? It seems like being gay isn't directly related to idolatry. Does anyone have some insight on this? Thanks
I’m not smart enough to explain it in a great way… but I’ve heard a sermon on that exact verse by John Piper and I loved the way he explained it.
How does everyone miss this, the wrath of God is being revealed against all ungodliness, meaning, US and the world. He is addressing US in chapter 2 comparing us metaphorically with Israel. Only Christians KNOW Him, therefore, who do you really think this passage is talking to?
I thought chapter 2 was about ethnic Israel?
@@timothyvenable3336 I think that comes from people forgetting how God uses types and shadows to show us things. If you read the beginning of chapter 1 it is clearly a letter written to believers and many times throughout the letter Paul says ,"for the Jew first and also for the Greek" showing us the type and shadow of , " for the believer first and also for the unbeliever". This false dichotomy is prevalent inost evangelical teaching but is wrong.
We are spiritual Israel and those chapters are talking to us.
@@3BadBostons that makes sense… not sure I fully agree though. I feel like if you use proper hermeneutics, you can still come to the conclusion that “the Jew” and “Israel” most of the time actually means ethnic and historic Israel… but I could be wrong. You raised a good point
@@timothyvenable3336 I spent decades using good hermeneutics and what I found that helped me understand scripture the most is trust in the Lord and memorizing or better internalizing scripture. God rude His word intentionally for us to need His Spirit for interpretation.
It took me about 3 years to memorize Romans but it is the best thing I ever did for understanding.
@@3BadBostons that’s awesome! Romans is such a great book
For a long time I have denied the Augustinian, Roman Catholic teaching of original sin.
I do not hold to being born with a sin nature.
I used to, I really did.
Why the change?
Becuase it is not a doctrine that the Bible teaches.
Soooo...
WHY, if babies do not have a sin nature, are not born with original sin, does every single person born, eventually sin?
BECAUSE THEY HAVE SINFUL PARENTS!
Parents who are hypocrites, unjustn liars, smokers, who swear, drink in excess, are selfish and on and on and on. ( I cannot possibly mention every sin that exists)
We all, even Christians, teach our children to sin.
Ummmm…. How on earth did you come to that conclusion? Do you not have kids?
Back sliding scripture.
Romans 1 21-25
Who THEY ARE and WHO THEY ARE NOT.
KJB
Romans 1.........57ad
[21] Because that, WHEN they KNEW God,
they glorified him NOT as God, neither were thankful; but BECAME VAIN in their IMAGINATIONS, and their foolish heart WAS DARKENED.
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they BECAME FOOLS,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an IMAGE made like to CORRUPTIBLE man , and to BIRDS, and FOURFOOTED BEASTS, and CREEPING things.
[24] Wherefore God also GAVE THEM UP to UNCLEANNESS through the LUSTS of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a LIE, and worshipped and served the CREATURE MORE than the CREATOR, who is blessed for ever. Amen
Paul switched gears from 20 to 21 as he did 17 to 18.
Who "THEY" are and who "THEY" are NOT.
Lets squeeze blood from a turnip.
The UNSAVED always have been vain in thier imaginations.
They never ever glorified God.
They always had dark hearts.
They were always unwise.
They were always fools.
They always made images.
They were always corruptible.
They were always unclean in their hearts mind and soul.
They were always lustful
They always dishonored their own bodies between themselves. (Sin)
They were always liars.
The unsaved knew OF OF OF God but never KNEW God.
God never walks away from the unsaved. There has to be a relationship in place to walk away from.
What did the UNSAVED ever have to lose when they never had it to begin with?
You cant squeeze blood out of a turnip.
Now read 21-25 with the saved in mind. It will make alot more sense.
Pay attention to the past tense grammar. The saved has things to lose as the unsaved dont. Cause they never had it. Their soul is already lost without salvation.
Romans 1 21-25 is not talking about the unsaved. Its talking about the saved backsliding from idolatry with live people, creatures, statues, sinning against themselves, etc. and not confessing and repenting from their wicked ways thus losing their salvation because of it. Verse 24.
Since the resurrection of Jesus Christ, there has been ONLY ONE WAY TO KNOW God.
SALVATION.
Paul and the Holy spirit would never use the words "KNEW GOD" loosely and contradict the words of Jesus in John 14 by implying we can KNOW God by His creation only.
KNOWN OF GOD. 19.
It is impossible to KNOW someone if you never met them and never had a relationship with. But only to know OF OF them.
In 21 did God say "because that when they knew OF God"??
NO
Romans 1 KJB 57 AD
[21] Because that, WHEN they KNEW God
^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^
God said right here that they KNEW HIM. This means SAVED.
Gods words. Will we deny HIS WORDS AS IT IS WRITTEN????
John 14 KJB
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
To KNOW GOD MEANS SAVED.
TO KNOW OF GOD MEANS UNSAVED. Knowing OF God means just knowing theres a supreme being because of his creation.
Romans 1 21-25 is about the saved who backslid (turned back) and didn't confess and repent from their wicked ways daily and lost their salvation because of it. Verse 24.
THE MESSAGE?
Salvation is not a license to sin and NOT confess and repent daily.
Hebrews 10 KJB
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.
Knowledge of the truth means JESUS because He is the truth and sacrifice.
John 14 KJB
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life.
One WILL lose their salvation from ABANDONING their FAITH by not turning from their wicked ways.
Goes with verse 24
Verse 25
Changed the truth of God into a LIE means claiming salvation but doing what they want when they want without confess and repenting.
Matthew 5 KJB
[27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
This means if one imagines ANY sin from his heart, he's guilty of that sin on the spot. This is why we confess and Repent daily. We are daily sinners.
1 John 1 KJB
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[9] If we CONFESS our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Samuel 15 KJB
[23] For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
The OSAS camp is still rebelling against God.
Confess and repent daily. Any unconfessed sin remains unforgiven.
The goal here is deliverance.
There are no contradictions in the KJV HOLY BIBLE.
In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
Hold the truth in unrighteousness
Is this suppression considered their free will?
Romans 6 says you are either slave to sin or slave to Christ, no free will
@@winburna852 great point
If Romans one and 1 Corinthians 6 are talking about the same thing you have a massive problem. One says you are turned over and one says you were washed
So much for inborn Total Depravity (TD) and the supposed inability to respond to apologetics. What JW says about Romans 1:19-21 (what the Bible itself says) refutes this reformed dogma. How can someone "glorify God" who is incapable of faith? LOL! Depending on who he has an issue with he will flip his diatribe.
Laughable and sad.
No one glorifies God. He glorifies Himself. Duh!
the verse says "they did *not* glorify Him as God."
If you believe being held responsible for this necessitates being able to do it, you are just reading your own position into the verse. As a reformed person, I don't assume this means they actually can glorify God, and the words of this verse do not make that assertion.
@@landonsmith348
Right.
Being condemned to eternal perdition for not doing something implies the ability. Add in the Reformed teaching of God decreeing these pagan's evil desires and concomitant actions and of course you are going to develop an illogical adhoc response of "...doesn't require ability". It's nothing but absurd sophistry. Laughable and demonic.