Into The Mirror: Discovery Season One Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มี.ค. 2018
- SPOILERS! AVERT YOUR EYES! Discovery’s season one is done! So, where did everything land? Did the season have sins? Virtues? CLICK PLAY & SEE...
Swing by the Classic Flix TH-cam channel & check out their Season 1 Review of the Orville (and their Orville script!): bit.ly/2E7slR6
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This episode was made possible by the support of Hank S., Darren Descallar, Pen Pfeifer, David Radford, Paul Laker, Alex Zheng, Troy Bernier, Jay Yan, & Alex Blocker. Additional thanks to Ryan Kindahl, Patricia, Sigurður R Rúnarsson, Robert Cubito, Ken Glen Jr., Orevelos, Nathan Lucero, Patteroast, and our other fantastic Patreon supporters. Thank you, all!
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Wow, if only the writers had thought about some of these themes so deeply.
Oh I think the have enough challenge deciding which socks to wear in the morning - I wouldn't want to upset the poor dears.
It's interesting that you compare Michael to Alice because I was thinking about Saru's arc throughout the season and compared him to another children's book character: the Lion from the Wizard of Oz: Both start as self-proclaimed cowards, but when the time comes they don't think twice about heading into a dangerous situation to save their friends, and because of it, at the end both receive a medal symbolizing their courage.
oooo...that's interesting...
RE : The Dorothy Analogy & play with the Alice one too - would make me wonder if Georgiou is the Wicked Witch (or the Queen of Hearts) & Stamets is the Cheshire cat (or the Scarecrow), Rys is the Doormouse, L'Rell is the mad March Hair, Ash is The mad Hatter, Cornwell is the White Queen, Lorca is the Wizard then ?
Detmer & Owosekun are tweedledum and Tweddledee.
Instead of Wonderland you have OZ.
Also like Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and The Oz story - both have a particular focus on the protagonist for most of it.
I think I may have that all a bit muddled - now - I think I needed to plan this post better.
Very nicely put.
Well, she's *given* an Alice book by her foster mother, so I thought that was the basis of the choice, and implied by the writers themselves.
^^^ It's not about "white people," it's about dominant majorities not realizing their own dominance and biased tendencies. If there's a (non-"all black," like the Jeffersons or Blackish) show or two on TV, that could be helpful, and a nice change-of-pace. White people in Merca feel it's oppressive if they are not in charge 100% of the time. Hence the total outrage by many when Obama was president and the "birther" slander by Don the Con.
This is what valid criticism and balanced reviews are supposed to look like, folks. It's why I love this channel - or reviewers such as SFDebris. Even when I don't agree, the opinions are stated so thoughtfully and respectfully that I feel I really get something out of them.
In a place such as TH-cam, filled to the brim with so many unnecessarily long, poorly written reviews of Discovery (not to mention whiny and uninformed), your channel and videos are a sight for sore eyes. Thanks a lot for the effort put into making these. Amazing work!
Whiny and uninformed!! Yes this is true, and sadly describes a large portion of the fanbase, which surprises the hell out of me!! I always thought us Trek nerds were a cut above, youtube seems to be proving me wrong!!
Not trying to defend the whiney, but.. when they hide the show behind a pay wall on a bad service it's fairly easy to be uninformed.
Pandapeep
sadly to your point, there is a large contingent of the whiners in these comment sections, who bemoan the show having seen a few to none of the episodes, and base their own opinions from others opinions
Pandapeep When I said uninformed, I meant people not bothering to research. But worse than that was seeing self-proclaimed "fans" throwing fits every week, being rude and aggressive, hating those with different opinions, all because the new Trek show was not what THEY wanted it to be. Because, mind you, a show about exploration and innovation was trying something new for the franchise. The irony is completely lost on them.
Anyway, I also agree that the model CBS chose to distribute Discovery in North America is a failure. However, for most viewers around the world - me included - Discovery is available on Netflix.
It's because the new flashy explosion war like star trek is utter bs that's why. Star trek was about exploring but now the mainstream took over and it became shit and I'm not a fan I just think they are right. I just came her to shit on a person like yourself because the irony is you are doing the exact same shit right now.
Worth the wait! Thank you for all your reflective, thought-provoking Discovery reviews. Great stuff!
Finally, after 3 long weeks. I’ve been checking every day for your analysis. Great video.
This is easily the best Trek channel on TH-cam. Your reviews are always knowledgeable and fair. I love your content, and keep up the good work!
Best reviewer ever. Don't change a thing. You help me see the deeper meanings
Speaking of which the subtext on this shows story development was stated to be based on tensions in Korea and the whole Alt-Right thing was more something they go around saying on Social media.
But it does look like the retconed the Terran Empire to got from Human Supremacist to Xenophobic and Supremacist.
Though perhaps Spock's status is partly down to him being Half-Human - But bring Enterprise into play Vulcans like T'Pol and Soval had some role in that version of the Empire - but not in the Disco-verse version - which is arguably another reason to think both Universes are alternate ones.
But who knows perhaps Mirror Gorgiou's replacement decides Vulcan's are Useful and Baremiddles are "Traditional" and so they return to that PDQ as a counter to Gorgiou a lot of things might have changed soon after.
I am vaguely curious who will inherit her job now she's otherwise engaged though - there are a few possibilities based on B-canon.
"Putting up with" your Discovery reviews? I just discovered them, and binge watched all of them. I love them! What a breath of fresh air they are! I can't wait for your reviews of season 2.
Nicely done! I think your videos have come closest to my view of the show. I was kind of hoping for an episode-specific review of "Will You Take My Hand?" but I'm not disappointed in the wait for this one. It was time well spent. I'm looking forward to season two!
17:27
WRONG
I LOVED GABRIEL
#bringbackLorca
He was the only interesting character. imo
#bringinPrimeLorca
Prime Lorca vs Imperial Georgiou.
#MakeTheEmpireGloriousAgain
Yeah! I love him too! He was like a mix between Archer, Sisko and Dukat (kind of).
I wonder what Prime Lorca will be like.
I need to know!
(And I need more Jason Isaacs, lol)
16:35 "I for one, am not interested in seeing that ship in this show. That crew had their adventures and no one is really interested in trotting over old ground."
I see this perspective and I applaud you for voicing an unpopular opinion. However, I can't agree. That crew is Captain Pike's, not Kirk's. Aside from Spock, the only details we know about them comes from the unaired TOS pilot _The_ _Cage._ We don't know what the Enterprise was doing in those days. We don't know why it would look differently from its TOS appearance. There is indeed fertile ground there to explore as it gives a connection between Discovery and Pike's Enterprise.
The only 'old ground' is Spock, but the relationship between Spock and Michael is _not_ old ground. I think we should wait and hold off judgement on if that will prove meaningful until we see it.
"We don't know why it would look differently from its TOS appearance".
Look, I do not know how you have happened to miss on it, but DSC is a visual reboot of ST.
That has long been widely known.
Things are and will be different and thus shall NOT be reconciled with what we have seen in the first 50 years of ST.
And that is it!
When I see Discovery, I take it like this: the first 50 years of Star Trek have been beautiful and enriching and numerous other positive things, but they are already gone now, past us.
Now we have here the reboot.
When I was a kid and in my early teens, I suffered from the OCD. Since then, despite some recurring struggles here and there, I learnt to simply let go of things that really do not matter THAT MUCH. The last two words of the previous sentence are crucial.
And that is how I put up with the existence of the reboot.
P.S. - In the first 50 years also existed quite a few things that had been breaking the canon, or were later phased out or disregarded and thus began to retro-actively collide with the newer but official canon, and lotsa people who had loved them eventually managed to get over it.
Some of those things were truly valuable and amazing and very hard to "lose", such as FASA.
I'm not sure it's fair to say that the Enterprise crew has had their adventures when the crew of that Enterprise which Discovery meets is the one of Christopher Pike whom we hardly got to know. I would actually like to see those particular characters again.
Incredible, your video essays are beautiful, thank you so much for all of your hard work.
OMG! Took long enough LOL do you realize how good you are at explaining this series that all of us are now addicted to your explanations lol thanks tho! =)
I was ready to gripe about this review, as I've griped about others, but it was surprisingly fair in the end. The hosts thoughts about why the Serial-Trek format is necessary was interesting, though all I see is what was lost: the exploration of Ideas. Other formats could have handled the ideas in Discovery in 2-3 episodes, leaving no room for dead-horse beating. So, while the host gave us two choices: TOS/TNG/Voy/early DS9/early Ent episodic, or late DS9/Discovery serials. I would suggest a third option: Ent 4th season multi-episode arcs.
PS -- episodic Star Trek had little time for interpersonal drama plots. I loved that. Star Trek was my refuge from the 90% of Television that was nothing but soap-opera self-discovery and interpersonal reconciliation plots in various flavors. I worry what writers will find for "filler" in Discovery.
Thank you for the outstanding criticism!
Describing Michael's character as being in flux is a very generous way of saying she was written inconsistently. Rarely do we see any struggle between her innate humanity and her Vulcan upbringing. Only after Tyler has been outed do we get even the barest hint of that, and it's great. The hurt and betrayal, the uncertainty and fear of her own feelings toward Tyler - it's perfect. But it's one great moment amid countless terrible ones. The show tells us time and again that Burnham is brilliant, the most brilliant actually, yet she repeatedly makes profoundly stupid decisions. Don't tell me she's smart and then show me the opposite, that's counterproductive. Ugh, with a show so laser focused on a single character the writers really had to knock it out of the park with that character, and they didn't. Everyone around Burnham is more interesting than her, Tilly has more (and better) character development than her, Stamets with all of his mushroom-fueled craziness is still more relatable than her. How does this happen?
Maybe this cold, boring, logical (when the plot demands it) depiction has been avoided in past Treks because it's so hard to get right. Or maybe these writer's are just hacks who liked their idea but didn't put in the time to deliver on it. Maybe both, but in the end Burnham ends up exactly where she started; secure in her identity, her honor restored, her conscience clear. She's gone from point A to point A. What an arc!
3 left feet point a Burnham pushes the button.
3 left feet
remember how terrible DATA was as pinocchio that couldnt even whistle? how stiff and wooden Tuvok and Tpol were? same goes for the EMH and seven of nine, stiff wooden and onenote - but alot of those characters went on to be some of my faves! Trek loves to introduce emotionless/emotion finding characters, but takes awhile for them to be fleshed out in writing and acting, par for the course
S C you're not wrong, but none of those shows were built completely around one character. I hope Discovery gets better, i want to see some truly good Star Tell, but I still think that more care should have been taken with Burnham. The writing staff needs to stop chasing twists and get back to basics. Learn who Michael Burnham is, find that character and uncover the story organically from there.
I still am wanting an answer. How can it be that Lorca's desk has A Single Tribble AND A Perpetually Filled Dish of fortune Cookies. There should be an empty dish, or else many, many tribbles.
I think Burnham is a problem for Discovery. The writers told us that she is the main character, but we don't believe them. They don't get us to worry about Burnham in the least. They are desperately trying to convince us that she is important, relevant, awesome, but she is not. Saru, Lorca or Georgiou are much better portrayed and are much more interesting because they are not forced, they are just there and they are awesome. I hope that the writers realize and the second season fix this. This show has a huge potential and it would be very sad if the writers waste it.
We are worried about her. We want her to be successful.
@Manek Iridius Agree. Maybe the real problem with Burnham is that she is NOT the captain. Star Trek has been always set in the bridge of the ship, and there the focus goes naturally to the captain, the "natural" leader, so to speak. But Discovery is focused on the first officer, what puts things a bit more difficult to the writers. And if the first officer becomes a mutineer and then a simple specialist things are going to be even more difficult for them, so it will be interesting to see how writers deal with this in the second season.
Yep if you ask me the one thing I want for season 2 it's simple and it's one word
'Ensemble'
Burnham was a failed experiment- and her "Story arc" is now over - so throw her in the corner and forget about her and actually make some stories about other people - Heck I'm way more interested in Stamets than her, and Tilly, even Saru. I want to see them actually give the rest of them an actual personality and as long as we get Burnham's angsty soap opera plots that isn't going to happen. The woman is quite frankly unlikable as a Character.
I can not see any easy way to save her - the only way they can even TRY to humaniser her is via her inter-personal interactions - and she doesn't have any - but now she's a Commander again the poor crew can't just as easily ignore her completely as the seemingly were before.
Is it really to much effort for them to take a moment to tell use what happened to detmer's eye. Or to show what Rys is like when he's not failing to hit things with weapons.
The problem is she whips ass.
I feel she just being poorly written is the problem. She suffered no consequences for any of her actions in the long term. It allowed no real growth for her as a character. She was mutinous, childish in ways, and really quite unlikable as a protagonist. I don't blame the actress, as I am sure she did the best with what she got.
wow...i'm actually surprised, you put a very good video. One of your best along side the "case for gul dukat" and "the serpent tooth".
Please keep delivering such nice works
Honestly, the show would be far less controversial among longtime fans if it hadn't inserted itself into the official Prime universe. For better or worse, many Trekkies like our continuity. I myself couldn't reconcile how Discovery is supposed to take place ten years before TOS, yet the visuals, technology and story elements bear little to nothing in common with that show. That's why I decided to approach it as taking place in an alternate universe. Not necessarily one we've seen before like the Kelvin timeline, but one of the potentially infinite divergent realities out there, as illustrated in the TNG episode "Parallels."
Neverhoodian
you could take off your canon glasses and read that DIS is a visual reboot or yeah live in your head canon
S C
Way ahead of you buddy, I've been following my own headcanon (i.e. picking and choosing what I like and ignoring the rest) for fictional settings like Star Trek for decades now. It's far more enjoyable for me that way, rather than enduring the stuff I don't like out of some misguided sense of loyalty. That said, I would never try to impose "my" Star Trek on others, because it's based on my own highly subjective tastes. That's the advantage of long-running franchises like Star Trek; there's at least one iteration of it that will resonate with someone's personal preferences, from hokey camp (TOS) to thought-provoking (TNG) to action filled spectacle (Abrams reboot) and just about everything in-between.
I never said I hated Discovery because it didn't fit visually and thematically with earlier series, just that it was an initial stumbling block for me. Once I came up with my "alternate universe" headcanon however I was able to appreciate it on it own merits.
Neverhoodian
DSC makes a lot more sense as a sequel to ENT than as a prequel to TOS. As a modern show, it feels more believable to me than trying to follow TOS canon with a retro-future hybrid of those two. In my own headcannon, everything in TOS got 'visually upgraded' and became a more 'refit looking' timeline once the Enterprise E somewhat altered the past in the 8th movie. ENT directly acknowledges that film, and I don't see why DSC shouldn't look similar but more advanced. I think we're similar in that there's plenty to like and dislike in all interpretations that have existed so far. Trek has shown an infinite number of possible times and universes since the 60s, so why not let it evolve with us?
Definitely for worse.
add to that, the continued need to obscure everything in lens flair so you can't see what's going on. Perhaps if they ditched the lens flare, they could have done a far better job lighting up the set. Disc reminds me of Emperor Palpatine's throne room on the death star more than Any Trek Starfleet ship. The reasons I dislike STD go far deeper than just the 'story' or lack thereof. We fans were lied to, STD is not Prime, and everything that goes with it.
You've definitely put everything about Discovery in proper perspective. As a life long Trek fan, sometimes I don't know if I love or hate Discovery. Yet I am greatly interested in seeing where it goes. While I like the show recognizes the Enterprise is out there in the Universe, my hope is that it's appearance will be very brief. Wave hello and goodbye to her, and move on.
I agree with you on most of what you said. But I never got the sense that the writing staff loved Star Trek. To me it always felt like it was written by a committee who allowed the message they were trying to convey take priority over writing a good compelling story.
Also they had to insert pre-established canon to legitimize the show. That is the Star Trek license. I believe they used too little, and they stuff they used was poorly implemented. If I want Star Trek to be like (insert show), I would just watch that show.
I am glad they CBS will have to front the bill next season, hopefully they will think twice about what they are doing.
Gillmore Girls in Space is as a valid argument to describe the show as calling it Star Trek is - since everyone and their uncle used to work on that show prior to Disco.
As another comment mentioned, the writing staff includes the guy who wrote and directed Wrath of Khan, the non-conspiracy nut producer of Star Trek Open 2009, and Gene's son, so they definitely know and love their Star Trek.
Which would make sense, given howdisjointed the whole show is. It its brilliant at points but doesnt follow up in theme consequently like trekspertise said.
I want to thank you for addressing some of the problems people are having with Discovery. One of the problems I've had, from my individual perspective which might be wrong, is your videos seemed cheerleader-y for Discovery ignoring the problems with it [which again is my perspective, and could totally not be the truth, and these are your videos and it is your right to have them be so if you choose].
I think on my part, Discovery had an unfair disadvantage with me. It being a product of CBS, and them having not handled Axanar gracefully, not handling the 50th anniversary well, and instituting the guidelines. It also had the disadvantage, with me, of being overseen by Alex Kurtzman, who has not had a very good solo career [yes, there are other producers, but he seems to be the mostly final decision maker]. I still havnt really forgiven these people or particularly trust them.
The show also uses alot of the same camera, set, lighting, and effects methods that the Abrams movies did, which I either found annoying or didnt find impressive. And in some ways, Discovery seems to tone them down. However they still feel empty. They are impressive on a technical, mechanical stand point, but dont really seem to add to the narrative. That is not to say that *some* cinematic techniques wouldnt fit in a Trek show. But these just come off feeling like over stimulation. Impressive to be impressive.
And then the tardagrade in the room for me is the, what some might call, inconsistencies with established cannon. I say that still privately believing that Discovery is secretly in it's own alternate universe. That is the only way so much of this makes sense. However, for the sake of discussion, I will work off the announcement that this is Prime.
I do not understand why the Klingons look so different. I dont understand from a story perspective, and a meta perspective. I dont understand why holograms are everywhere all of a sudden. So many things I could say. AND *yes*, I understand. The film making technology we have now is vastly better then what was there in the 60s. Not in debate. And this could easily be a good 10, 20, 50 year post-Nemisis show. However, set where it is, it creates so much franchise inconsistency. And, for some, that isnt as important. But some people watch Star Trek specifically for these minor detail continuation. Which Discovery *does* try to do. But I do think in a very pick-and-choose way. It wants to reference the Defiant in the Mirror universe, but it also wants the Defiant to look different too. "Klingons are such an iconic part of the Trek franchise, but we have some beautiful designs of how they could look." Discovery seems to want give all the attention attracting references, but it will only give them under their terms.
Yes. Star Trek should be able to grow and evolve. Just as it did in TNG. Though, it is weird that growing and evolving is taking place in the past of Star Trek. But even in the case of TNG, it tripped and fell and went down some stairs. BUT, it didnt die. And it climbed back up those stairs. I do not agree that Discovery is the best start a Trek show has had. I think that is far too optimistic a view of it. However, it's ok that it had a rough start. DS9 had one. It's practically tradition.
scofisticated not defending the Klingon thing, just saying, the forehead bumps was added for the first ST movie, the original Klingons had flat heads. And also, yeah, ST, on the whole, is about growth, evolution and moving towards a better tomorrow, so why is it, we've had Enterprise, the Kelvin timeline and Discovery all in a row? I'm not even getting in to how Discovery seems to borrow from the Kelvin timeline.
Please do not ever stop with your discovery reviews. We do not "put up" with them, we crave them.
My expectations were higher but the positive take is that a solid ground has been laid. For season two they need more episodes or a more focused story because the ending of season one felt like they run out of time.
Fantastic video! I love the themes you dove into. Great stuff as always 👍
Thanks for the well thought out and presented review. Discovery has quickly become my second favourite Star Trek after DS9. I look forward to season 2. Though I disagree with you on the Enterprise reveal, I see your perspective. I want to see how Discovery fits into the Federation and I cannot wait to see an updated Enterprise. The 60s style doesn’t really work in the modern era. When previous Trek went back there it was a pastiche (even if DS9's tribbles ep was fun!). I cannot wait for season 2 and your reviews of it.
Beautifully done. I can't wait to see your reviews of the season 2 episodes.
Love the review! You did a great job. Looking forward to new Trek videos in the future! Keep up the amazing work.
I have been highly entertained by the show and this channel. Please keep up the good work, in case there will be a second season!
I love the inside in the production value of this video. great stuff!
Excellent quality of presentation!
After watching discovery and ds9, I just hope the second season continues to be serialized, but they give a few more episodes to character development, kinda like with the mudd timeloop episode, but without timeloops. In season one there was little development of people who weren't on the main focus, or even then not enough. In contrast, DS9, in the middle of the war by the 7th season has many episodes without any consequence or lasting effects. Episodes that affect some characters permanently can be very effective, even if they have no other purpose, as long as they have a lasting impact...
Loved your clever reviews. They were really well thought-out.
Loved this review, awesome production and I agree with your assessments. Looking forward to season II.
Well done! Thank you for the thorough and constructive analysis! I love your videos!!
What I've noticed, reviewing these old shows, is that the range of emotions the characters explore has dropped significantly between TNG and Voyager. In TNG, in practically every episode I could name an emotion, the central theme of the episode, that was different from every other episode. Since voyager, every character is basically just broken, in one way or another. Therefore, they lack the ability to explore a healthy range of emotions. That's the charm of shows like the orville maybe, and the early seasons of the new dr. Who.
The "charm" of the Orville is just the soul of TNG, since all it's scripts are rehashes of that show. Even the character's are tightly based on the TNG crew. I hope in season 2 they break away from TNG, and actually become it's own show.
That's why I gave it a maybe. Still, the ability to experience a healthy range of emotions is an important missing piece in today's culture.
Watching Voyager now.
It's a tough series. If their characters succeed too much, they make it home. Every episode ends with a Pyrric Victory, and pretend like the episode ever happened
Damn right ! hopefully this BIg-corona-Pause has made this better, because if nobody has a bond with the rest of the crew acting upong that other character makes it a whole lot harder.
Thanks for these. You made me love this show 10x more- validating my love for it where others seem too ready to dismiss it because it looks and smells different. The finale was disappointing so I'm glad you skipped that and did this longer retrospective piece. Can't wait for season 2.
I'm just so grateful I found this channel. Finding an informed objective analysis/review from someone who truly loves Trek was impossible before.
Well, that was worth the wait! Great insights and review!
This is a much more balanced review compared to the episodes reviews, and I love it. Thank you for this.
at last ive found a real and balanced review of discovery. thank you sir. you reminded me why I tuned in every sunday
I wish I could be as good at something-anything, really-as you are at analyzing Star Trek and making these videos. Bravo. You truly have made an engaging, intriguing, enjoyable channel and I look forward to keeping up with your content for years to come.
Thank you very much. Hoping to add a to more, not only here but also in the film world.
You on Twitter, by chance?
+Trekspertise luv to see you tackle Blade Runner 2049!!!
You made a really good point about how it's important to show, and not just tell why multiculturalism and Federation ideals are important. I feel like the show would have sent a stronger message about its core themes if they had the Federation absolutely dominate the Klingons in the war with little effort, while on the other hand, showing how the Terrans are in a pathetic state of decline, significantly less technologically advanced than its prime universe counterpart, while also controlling a lot less territory. It would clearly get its message across that the Federation's inclusive institutions are the source of its strength, and ultimately Right makes Might.
Hahaha I nearly spat my tea out when Jellico came on screen! Nice video
No one expects Jellico.
Been following the channel even before the DSC, your vids are amazing and the production quality is top notch. keep up the good work Kyle
Thanks :)
We are still working on improving what we do :)
Very well done! Thank you!!!!!!
Man, I was longing for a deep and balanced analysis like this one. I agree with almost everything in this video and am anxious for the next steps on the saga.
last night before going to sleep, I wondered if you had given up Great surprise to wake up to!
Great review!
It is amusing (a little too ironic) that you put forth a criticism that the show was, maybe, a little too reliant on canon, while one of the most voiced complaints against the show was that it ignored canon.
The show did not ignore canon. It is dripping with references to everything.
Oh, I agree, i think this is a beautiful example of the unreasoned and thoughtless criticisms brought forth by a certain toxic faction of fandom.
I agree with you on most points except one, the canon aspect. While some points (like Burnham being Spock’s sister) are completely valid gripes, others (like the _Enterprise_ and the Tribble) I felt were good additions. The tribble was probably there for meta reasons, namely so that we’d think that there were no Klingons on the _Discovery_
As for the _Enterprise_ showing up, well honestly i love any chance to see the old girl again plus this can be used to fix the continuity snarl that resulted from including _The Cage_ in the canon both as the episode on its own and as part of the episode _The Menagerie_
Also this helps demonstrate that this is not the Kelvin timeline and it helps explain why the _Enterprise_ was going to be decommissioned in Star Trek III when she was only 40 years old. She’s had at least 2 massive structural refits on the scale of the _Midway_ class in real life on top of relatively minor refits such as replacing the nacelles, bridge, and Main Deflector Dish between _Where No Man Has Gone Before_ and the rest of the series. That probably shortened her service life by decades.
As for the serialized format, I both love it and hate it. I love it because it allows for great long term storytelling and fleshes everything out more, but I also can’t do what I love doing with older series and drop into a random episode or an old self-contained favorite. I hope season 2 finds a balance between the two story styles so it can have the best of both worlds.
Loving this review series still though. Can’t wait for it to come back with season two.
As a side note, I’m theorizing that the new captain of _Discovery_ is going to be Number One from _The Cage_ and that’s why the _Enterprise_ is even in the area.
Also, screw Orville. The humor is painful, the series itself is a parasite that has no legs of its own, and it’s fanbase (or at least my experience with its fans) is just so… well there isn’t really a word to describe them that is both accurate and polite.
All aboard the "fuck the Orville and its toxic fanbase" train!
Oh thank goodness, I thought it was just me that had that bad experience with them.
I did kind of agree with the show needing to stand on it's own a bit more, but that ending shot with the Enterprise, and the end credits music was just really awesome to see.
Oh god yes, that ending shot. I'm a sucker for beauty shots like that and Federation starships.
The theme was just icing on the cake.
Although given how people feel about the _Enterprise_ it would probably be more accurate to say the syrup on the _cheesecake_
RedShirt047
i agree that the TNGdiditallbef'Orville is not the "new Trek" as tons of fanboys clamor that it is - and im admittedly a fan of Seths via Family Guy - but i do appreciate the show for its obvious homage to Trek, as its really Seths boyhood dream, a big budget fanfilm with his brand of humor - Im torn that i dont know whether the willing use every trope in drama and sci-fi as obvious parody, or if they are unknowingly doing so relegating themselves as unintentional camp!
Discovery's serialization makes rewatching pointless. You can always go back to classic DS9, TNG, TOS, VOY episodes, and you can watch them out of sync. What episodes from Discovery will be worth watching over again? What stands out? There are some good characters there that could use some of that episodic character development.
Multiculturalism only works, i.e. doesn't tear a society apart, if it exists under an overriding culture to which the individual, multiple cultures are secondary, preserving their own features like beliefs, holidays, cuisine, etc, under the greater over-arching one. AKA, pluralism, or, if you will, E pluribus unum. I'll take off my anthropologist's hat now. Great video- I was waiting for it!
There is plenty to discuss inside that sentiment, for sure! But, I think you are right. And in the United States, the overarching or overriding cultural paradigm is both "White Ruling Class", born of the emerging European consciousness in North America, and enlightenment values (also, born of a Euro world view). Right now, the troubles we see in society comes in divesting the "ruling whiteness" from the enlightenment bit. I kind of wish Discovery would go hard down that road.
Relating to multiculturalism in particular, it does work. It has worked in several times and places. There are legit strategic merits to it all. I wish Discovery would have spelled one of them out a little more.
[*never takes off Anthropology Hat]
Meritocracy, as end goal > Multiculturalism, as end goal.
I can't think of anyone off hand who gives a Fig about The Enlightenment values other than the Europeans or those who are their spiritual Children (I.e. Australia & Canada).
Everyone else seems to have a pretty tenuous grasp on that - but then perhaps one of the only reasons it's NOT all fallen to pieces in Europe for a while is the shame of your neighbours. Everyone else seems a toe nail clipping away from lurching to the extreme right or the left - even America came pretty close to falling of the cliff a couple of times in the 20th Century.
Cherish it or loose it.
Fuck off with your alt-right bullshit. Roddenberry would have kicked your ass.
NoJusticeNoPeace Who are you talking to? Is it gone 'cause I'm not seeing any of this "alt-right bullshit"
Your break downs of Disco episodes are brilliant. I would appreciate, as i think many other trekies would, to see breakdowns and reviews of other trek series. Preferably all of them. There are no good or really any old trek reviews of entire trek series on TH-cam. I'd do it but i know i would be dreadful at it.
I'd love to hear you do a "Looking Back" or this video AFTER season 2!
Just subbed! great videos, love QOT.🌹
Welcome aboard!
Very good overview of the season. I was mostly pleasantly surprised with the first season, and I kind of admire that they leaned all the way into the mirror universe bullshit that's always my least favorite part of any series (and did a pretty good job of it).
I look forward to season 2, and your reviews of it!
Great analysis, thanks. I'm with you on just about everything including the points you made that had not occurred to me at all (very nice Alice allegory for instance). However, I'm 180 degrees opposite about the bold canon flyby of the Cage era Enterprise at the end of the last episode. Plenty of us *do* want Discovery to connect strongly with the established universe. We definitely *do* want to tread over old ground...especially ground that was barely even explored back in the 60's and always had so much possibility. In fact...the tighter the current stories mesh with that super early canon in new and interesting ways, the better we're going to like it. Especially if they keep the refreshed elements as authentic and cool as those wicked Cage era hand phasers, the uni colored uniforms, and this perfectly polished new 1701-D. I'm stoked to see where they take it ...
Thanks for this, and I don't mind "putting up" xD I enjoy the narrator's voice which calms my rattled spirit over the show that I am still at odds with ;-p However, the shininess and glitz of the show doesn't make for good storytelling, which is still hit and miss... Disco could learn from your vlog style to help the show along ;)
your channel/this episode. nominated for best editing.
WartimeConsigliere I wish!
This review has been very much appreciated. Thank you.
Welcome! It was a lot of fun to make.
Great Review! I'm going to link this video to the writers FB and Twitter accounts, with any luck they'll see it and consider implementing your suggestions. Others are welcome to link also.
Fantastic, you absolutely nailed it, great job! :-)
By far the best and most well thought review I have found...thank you. I agree with most of what is said and respect all of it.
been waiting for this
How Would Lorca have seen a better way in the Federation while he's commanding the only secret weapon in a war the federation is losing?
Had he been on DS9 or the TOS Enterprise, then sure, yeah he might have seen the error of his ways. But in Discovery all he saw was how the better Federation Ideals were losing a war.
In Lorca's eyes, he could see the value of Burnham's Vulcan upbringing much like the Romans (who the Terran Empire is based on) saw the Greeks - as worthy of respect for a martial and intellectual past but ultimately subordinate to the present-day primacy of the Empire.
The Ancient Romans routinely used Greek slaves as tutors and viewed Greece as a cultural prize worth preserving despite initial rebellions, for instance.
Well done and explained as always
Thanks =)
Well said and very much in line with my own thoughts on both its strengths and weaknesses. I liked the even and well thought out analysis! By the Way, I prefer these as my After Trek over actual After Trek.
Season 2 could write itself indeed, with Saru, Burnham and the not yet explored characters. For example, a visit to Saru's home planet where predators and prey are the rule of both nature and culture. What if Saru's prey species would like to join the Federation to be freed of their fear? Federation membership to protect Saru's species against the predators could end the planet's cultural life and even its very natural life system. The Federation would have to deny membership for Saru's species, putting Saru's Starfleet loyalty to the ultimate test, especially if he is the Captain of the Discovery -- unless there is another option...
Dude email this to Kirsten Beyer please! I would love a six episode arc about this.
I'm watching Grimm. Every minor character gets a line, every episode you learn a bit more about every character . In STD its only four or five characters having lines. The crew might as well be cardboard cutouts in a cheap soap opera dialog. I would like to see a touch of Fringe in the writing a long arc with stand alone episodes, exploring the unknown wired space. Discovery/Fringe/X-files type stuff.
Trekspertise this video was worth waiting for.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. When you said that the Klingon war has not teeth it's like you took the thought right from my head. I liked the show, but the quick wrap up of the war was terrible in my opinion and then having the Enterprise show up. I was screaming, "WHY??!?!?!" All that being said...I'm excited to see what they do in season 2. Keep up the good work!
You're pretty awesome. Awesome creativity and essay flow.
Thank you. We were pretty proud of this one.
Great analysis
Nicholas Yanes Thanks! Glad you liked it :)
16:40 Well, first: it’s not Kirk‘s crew we know but rather Pike‘s crew. And given the popularity of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, I’d say that there’s more time yet for the adventures of the Enterprise.
Awesome video. Thanks for posting. I will however say that Michael being Spock's sister ended up being one of the best part about season 2.
Thanks for watching!
I'm gonna say the same thing I said about picard: It would've been shitloads better if it weren't star trek
Well done sir
The disappearance of the silver and black badge... I just assumed they were MACOs but we never see these "redshirts" again, because the show rarely left the ship after the Glenn.
At 11:03 - "And where are the augment Virus Klingons?" Star Trek other than Enterprise has generally skirted this subject as a whole. We got a line from from Worf in DS9 about how TOS Klingons were also real Klingons, but that they don't discuss it with outsiders, and that's about it.
And when Enterprise tried to build off of that, but they aimed to do more than simply explain why TOS Klingons didn't have forehead ridges. They wanted to explain the culture shift between the 23rd & 24th century Klingons, who were shown in TNG to be much more honor-based, rather than the shifty, cowardly, savage ones from TOS. And with their explanation came other talk that ridge-less forehead Klingons weren't generally known, and by the 24th century, most of the population forgot the existence of these Klingons.
And since ENT tried to give some story to it, the explanation has generally been ignored. It was a very controversial subject within the community, with many wishing the writers simply ignored it entirely. As much as people whined "changing the look of the Klingons is stupid!" for Discovery, they clearly weren't around for the first Klingon-look-shakeup that began in the movies & TNG after TOS. And with that massive change, we didn't get an explanation until decades later! Even the JJ-verse Klingons had a look change, just not as defined as DISC. I was initially annoyed by it, but I've come to appreciate the distinctivness, as it actually makes them look more alien and brutal, something Star Trek has long been criticized for with most of its alien species being "generic human with forehead makeup" or "generic human with funny hair."
At least these Klingons from chin to the top of their skull look entirely alien, and even speak in a tongue that sounds more other-worldly than simply a human speaking gibberish. DISC definitely has its issues, but after rewatching the entire season, I feel it has set itself up far better than people give it credit for. They remember old ST shows via nostalgia goggles, and reflect upon only *THE BEST* that those shows had to offer. People remember everything ST did great, while forgetting all the numerous ridiculous or plain stupid failures it had (especially in those series' first season or 2). DISC at least had an average season 1, whereas TNG, DS9 (perhaps the best ST), ENT, etc. all had poor - awful first seasons. There's definitely room for improvement, but I'm not dismissing this show any time soon.
I read the appearance of Enterprise at the end of the last episode as shorthand of saying that the continuation of the story would be the beginning of classic Star Trek, ie. there would not be a second season of Discovery. What are people’s thoughts on that.
The best review of Discovery Season One I've seen!
It would have been better as a prequel to use the Klingon war arc for season one to give time to develop the war and characters. Season two could have focused on how the main characters worked together, relationships etc, flush out the imposter's for the mirror arc with the Lorca reveal. Although there would have been a lot less controversy if they would have just made the series post Voyager or Nemesis. It would have eliminated the need for "cannon", made new adventures and added a new layer of what has already been written, rather than trying to insert a paragraph into the Star Trek Lore.
Watching on CBS regular in 2021. 1. This series was really well executed. 2. Burnham should never have been made a 1st officer, much less a Starfleet officer. 3. Just an FYI. The guy who played T'Kuvma was accused of several sexual assaults in England and is still being investigated.
Great job!!!
An interesting and well-written/presented video-essay as always. For me Discovery was hit and miss...I wasn't sure how to feel when it started and didn't get particularly 'good' for me until about episode 7 or 8 and I started to appreciate it more, but it is an interesting show and season 2 should be interesting.
Looking forward to more videos ^-^
"It stands out as one of the best openings to a Star Trek series since 1966"
You...
Are...
HIGH!!
lol - well let me have what your smoking if you think the TNG era seasons ones were better bro!!
Dead sober =)
I enjoyed your review. It was well stated
Yayyyyyy, it's finaly out. I'm so happy.
I actually feel a little put out by this last review. I've loved you're brilliant analysis of the show so far and also the diplomacy you have shown when discussing it. However this episode seems to be lacking that. It's seems extremely negative and subjective and on a side note, it seems to valorise DS9 as a revolutionary show which I have to say surprised me. It is the most controversial series for me as it revolves so heavily around religion and war (not exactly the star trek ethos), it relies heavily on on the negative aspects of alien species such as the Kardassians and the Farengi and depicts clear prejudices. I'm not trying to be conflictual and I do appreciate the hard work that has clearly gone into this and I don't disagree with it all but this is the first time I truly didn't agree with your views. How can you not have liked the enterprise at the end. We saw the enterprise d in ds9 and it hardly made it any worse.
Greetings, nice review as always!
Would you mind to tell what music/titles you used in the background?
There is a bibliography in the show notes.
Ah, missed that, thanks!!!
Excellent soundtrack to this
Yeah, what is that Music anyway? Especially at the beginning? From Alic in Wonderland? I'm wondering since you're using Clips from that film. :)
I find this interesting... many of your issues, at least for me, are addressed very early on in the 2nd season in a way that seemed to be intentional and ended up making for a more interesting story than your initial prediction. From why Tyler went to stay with the Klingons, to having the Enterprise show up, and why it's important for Michael to be Spock's sister. Of course, it's not like it would have been that hard to briefly show and explain these things right at the end of the season...
Season 2 is off to a great start.
Glad I watched this. I have not seen the show. Now I have idea what the show is like. Heard bad and good about it. When I saw the what the Klingons looked like for the last year. I was "What the Hell is that??". I love Trek since I was a kid. I was born first Jan. 1966 and Trek Sept. 1966. That is how I always know how old it is. I live in a large city and you can get the DVD from the library, so still waiting to see the show. Great Video.
My favourite channel.. well done :)
:)
Incredibly high quality video, well done
Thanks! New one dropping this evening, at 1730 US Central Time.
Thank you! This is the most coherent and thought through review of Discovery i’ve read. The “Alice in Wonderland” references are brilliant! Live long and prosper!
Thanks!
Well done!!
I spent quite a while thinking about writing a lengthy comment about this video. But in the end I decided to simply say; I agree. To Sum it Up; disappointing last episode (too convenient) but it's an entertaining 1st season overall; great special effects/sets, good acting, decent characters. Discovery is like Star Trek greatest hits; Klingon war/Mirror universe. The series clashes too much with TOS & I hope season 2 doesn't do a lot more of that. Looking forward to seeing it.
I tend to agree with much of this criticism, I felt that in the last three episodes they decide to completely change the direction of the show from the more serious mature and morally ambiguity approach and so they were very quick to wrap all the plot lines.