TRUE? I also love how it has to reduce and ignore more than one Dragon Ball feat in addition to having to take the Saiyans at their worst and take out any important Saiyan, for example if we will use non-Canon things, one could argue that every Saiyan that is stronger than Garlick Jr is 5d since he was able to Create a Hyper space with his own power
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou Not really mad or anything, it's just true. I love Star Wars, I grew up with the original trilogy. I can quote word for word half the movies, but when it comes to power scaling, they are just not there. But that was never the point of the story. the Jedi were philosophical and spiritual, they were not planet destroying death machines. Even back in the time before Disney took over the Legends cannon was seen as nothing more than an over-the-top fan fiction.
Dude I'm sorry, but the Jedi masters were all killed by simple laser guns. Saying that they have planetary attack potential is nuts. Why would the Emperor build a giant planet killing space weapon if he could simply blow planets up himself? If the Sith could destroy planets whenever they wanted, they would actively be doing that. Also, regular people like Boba Fest have killed tons of Jedi in legends, is he planetary as well??
Remember when SSJB Goku got taken out by a little ring laser? The Jedi much like Goku in that situation, were all caught off guard. Ki control and Force augmentation are very similar, they're both used to control the overall output of power for strength, speed, durability, ect. Also, AP doesn't equal DC, the Jedi have a lot of AP, the Death Star has more DC, the Emperor had it built as more of a scare tactic to enforce the control of HIS empire and his alone.
@@GokulosestoavirusNope I went on the battles wiki and Palpatines attack potency and Durability stand at a solar system level at max while Goku on the battles wiki has low multiverse scaling so Star Wars gets clapped
Remember when SSJB Goku got taken out by a little ring laser? The Jedi much like Goku in that situation, were all caught off guard. Ki control and Force augmentation are very similar, they're both used to control the overall output of power for strength, speed, durability, ect.
They are not planetary. Lonk ignored the bottom right corner of the page he showed. The a council member prevented a planet busting device by stabilizing it at the cost of his life. He was not dying beforehand, he does not have to be as powerful as the device and it litteraly took more than he had in him.
Hold up the infant of Shaa feat can’t be applied to Jedi knights or Jedi masters as we have no proof that regular Jedi can replicate this move so saying the average Jedi knight is planet level does not make sense
Yup. If king Vegeta and many of the other early saiyans could each easily ki blast and destroy whole damn planet. Both Jedi and Sith stand no chance lol. And that's merely against base saiyans. Neither Jedi or Sith have EVER proven to even be country level lmao. Just think.. when the Rebellion really wanted to destroy the death star, Luke, who was at the time the most powerful Jedi could just use the force to crush the whole Death Star, therefore ACTUALLY justifying planetary level power. And that's just a fact even though neckbeared redditor star wars fans will do anything to prove that wrong 😂😂 My only argument for the Jedi is to come close enough to a Jedi "acting as a civilian" and starting a conversation, then using the Jedi mind control power to turn Saiyans against each other.. that's their best plan in my opinion.
@@aurochsbeats yeah and it’s weird because the Jedi planets feat don’t make sense because it’s contradicted by the movies and a lot of other stuff. like why didn’t use they’re planet level power to do this or to bust that a problem dragon ball doesn’t have.
I think the thing about jedi powerscaling is that the jedi code itself causes them to hold back their power alot which is part of the reason why they were able to be killed by clones when off guard. If regular clones are able to kill even some of the counsel members through surprise attack its possible that a large majority of the temple would die if the saiyans decide to all attack at once creating a moon and just stomping on the jedi. Though this assuming that the parties stay in character and the saiyans are invading not the other way around. Obviously mace yoda and anakin would be able to deal with any saiyan in a one on one fight but what would happen if they just nuke the planet with ki? its kinda interesting since the while the jedi might have way more hax their alot more invincible on paper than in practice due to the code where saiyans never really held back and went all in off rip
This implies that the Jedis could defeat other enemies that saiyans can deal without problems, like the viltrumites, most people in naruto (that DB of Obito vs Vader), and the MCU (at least most of it).
@@kepabra3782 I don't think this is a good idea to escalate, since the guy used the strongest versions of the characters, in the strongest continuity (which is not canon) and even Wank some SW Feats
Part of that is due to the impact mass deaths have on Jedi, it really messes with them and can weaken their connection to the Force overtime albeit temporarily. This is part of the reason Order 66 was as successful as it was, by the time it happened most Jedi had spent months if not years fighting on the front lines as their troops died around them, they simply couldn't focus enough to pick up that hint of intent and most of those that could couldn't react well enough to survive the onslaught especially not with the mass death of their fellow Jedi rippling through the Force.
Am I the only person who thinks that the way people powerscale Jedi is fucking insane? The Jedi were all killed off almost to the last by regular dudes with regular blaster guns. Do you really expect me to believe that those chumps could all go toe-to-toe with planetbusting saiyan warriors?
exactly, and he used specifically non-canon things, in addition to more than a few atypical Feats and reduced the power of the Saiyans quite a bit, for example, the speed of the Saiyans or their power, this guy always massively underestimates Dragon ball
To be fair, that's basically a Krillin rock level feat for the clones, the Saiyans would also get fucked if some dude shot them in the back of the head with a regular gun.
@notme8232 Uh no. Goku as a kid took a bullet to the head by bulma,machine gun fire, and a sniper bullet to the head while unaware from a red ribbon army sniper.
@@ДмитрийРубежов-э1б bruh Goku in DBs only scales to 4D and in dBH to 6D-7D. Honestly Star Wars has higher scaling than that, not just 5D, since there is Outerversal stuff I think
@@eddieboston6540 Hundreds of fictional characters get stomped by buu era characters, most jedi consistently are capable of better feats than most of the dragonball cast save for maybe Goku and Vegeta, buu. You have characters like Luke skywalker who can casually manipulate black holes, galaxy spanning levels of telekinesis and more. Dragon ball definitely has better strength feats but when it comes to Haxs star wars takes it.
so use the strongest incarnation of the characters in the strongest race (not canon also), vs using the Saiyans at their worst, removing all the important Saiyans, using only canon and after that reducing the Feats considerably Of them, I don't think it's a fair discussion.
@@majortughjedi9813almost everything you said sounds fodder for the Namek era of characters, for example anime Frieza destroyed a galaxy and collapsed the explosion while he was half dead,I also doubt the Hax part
@@yeikelamores6085 when did frieza every destroy a galaxy during namek saga? Ive never once seen a single guide book ever claim frieza was that level. That literally contradicts Cell's own feat of being Solar system level which was confirmed by not only the manga but the anime and guide books as well. Buu is infact galaxy level but Frieza definitely was not
7:23 So this isn’t about how strong the Jedi are Canonically. George Lucas ignored Legends, and it’s been a decade since Legends was relegated to licensed fan fiction. EDIT: how can any Jedi be Planetary level? If Obi Wan was planetary level, why would the Death Star even matter?
So of course if a planet buster gets weaker he wouldn't get the durability anymore to survive those attacks, its like Gohan getting weaker because he didn't train, even Goku can be hurt by a bullet which did happen so a freaking giant laser coming down to a old man that didn't train for so many years means a big deal
You are wrong. If Lucas didn't care about the legends. Why would he change the relationship of the Yuuzhan Vong to the Force? Originally, they were supposed to be immune to the Force like the Yslamiri, but Lucas had it changed so that the Vong had no connection to the Force at all. If Lucas didn't care about legends, then explain why Lucas decided to change the entire Thrawn trilogy, which was originally supposed to have an evil Ben Kenobi clone, but Lucas didn't like that and forced it to change, giving us Joruus C'baoth. If Lucas didn't care about legends, then explain why Lucas forced the plot of Dark Empire, which was originally meant to be a Vader imposter, and had it changed to Reborn Palpatine, and this also ties into why Episode III has Palpatine talking about cheating death. If Lucas didn't care about legends, then explain why Force Unleashed, which was originally supposed to be a game about a Wookiee smashing things like a Hulk game, became a game about Vader's secret apprentice, Starkiller. I can go on and on, but there's a whole ton of decisions made by Lucas that significantly affects the lore of Star Wars EU. Here are good videos that talks about how Lucas views about the EU or Legends th-cam.com/video/TxTGIY7n5TU/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/zwCSxyyOdus/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/gchIYyeQVxM/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/AZnxX2mPW1o/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/ZhTN1yTiYgI/w-d-xo.html
Powerscaling star wars is aways a crazy ride, because shit get funny in the old cannon (star wars legends) not in the level of dragon ball, but yet, you don't expect old man palpatine destroying a planet with force lightning or yoda fighting a literal fucking mountain
Blasters Bolts Were Stated As Lightspeed level in both canon and Legends And Even A Regular Jedi Padawan Like Ashoka Long Time Ago Was Able To Dodge Ten Of Them Easily After A Couple Attempts So Jedi Masters Are Significantly More Powerfull And Vader In Legends is massively faster then light@@yeikelamores6085
I'm going with Saiyans. Seeing how Jedi were gunned down by the clones. Saiyans probably brush off the same assault and laugh. Saiyans can take a lot more punishment in a fight. And Jedi get limbs cut off with lightsabers all the time but I think they would bounce off Saiyan bodies especially if they are in their great ape forms
@@Benja21740 yeah except yajorobi was not normal human at all NOT to mention that cut was surprised attack... people really underestimate low tier characters in DB.
@@cloverkingdom6341but yajirobe had a powerlevel of less than 900 while vegeta had 160,000 yet yajirobe caught him off guard why would you not presume a jedi with much more experence and intelligence couldn't so somthing similar to a saiyan in there base form
My Problem are KI blast. So maby example of Explosions that even Jedi Master´s couldnt stop from reaching them, now Imagine they just spam these. This match up is probably the coolest so far tho
This was a great video! I loved how concise and easy to understand your research was. Not gonna lie, while I did expect Yoda to sweep, I DID NOT expect the regular Saiyan and Jedi to be that evenly matched. I was under the impression that the average Saiyan stomped, but well color me surprised! Great video!
@@ROBSULL Legends is Cannon as much as dragon ball alt timelines and multiple cannon's are. The Bardock movie ai't even cannon to the manga but everyone loves to use it for the base of their scaling. Disney and legends are two separate cannons just like DBS manga and anime. Cuz if you compare Disney cannon to the manga SW stomps easily. So just stop acting like he's wanking when he explicitly stated he was putting the saiyans against the legends version of characters. Btw SWEU was cannon for three decades compared to Disney cannon's one decade. so it easy to see why fans who grew up on the SWEU wold feel salty that Disney Ctl alt Deleted the established continuity just to make way for their new stories and retcons.
@crimsonking4151 Where was it stated star wars Legends and Disney star wars were separate canons ? Star wars legends WAS canon until Disney. Don't get mad at me because Disney does what it always does.
@@eddieboston6540 a Galaxy in dragon ball refers to a quadrant of the universe ie: south Galaxy = south quadrant, and no broly did not destroy south Galaxy but he did destroy a Galaxy just not a whole quadrant (confused yet?) But also yes statements from official sources have explained that a solar system in Dragon ball would be considered a Galaxy by our standards and a true galaxy in dragon ball would still house multiple of these solar system, can't remember where I read the statement from tho
@@theyounggodlobo It doesn’t really matter in the context of this debate, as it’s exponentially more powerful than anything Starkiller has ever done regardless.
Despite saying you would use both super and Z statements you only mencioned the lader. Bardock in the manga is stated as a non low class by Gas and Radish is considerd a mid class by new statements so mid class are around 1000-2000. So nappa is indeed high class along side Paragus and the other background Saiyans on the Broly Movie with power level around 4000. In the Toriyama statement he says he wasn't sure how he would write on wards so it's unapdated. That didn't change the power estimate you said but, the is the second thing you ignored from the Broly Movie, it was said to Freeza that the Saiyans were half of his armie. In fact they were send to conquer planets into groups of 10 at least.
@@asuraofwrath that also includes the lonk down playing king vegeta who destroyed the 3 three planets not even trying. If he were to try he could probably wipe out a solar system and some. Not to mention he actually survived all 3 exploding and saiyan can’t survive in space lol
Even if the average Saiyan had a power level of 300 they’d still be moon busters… I guess we’re supposed to believe that Jedi are immune to attacks of that magnitude when most of them were killed by normal blaster fire?
I can't believe people take Vader's statement of the death star being insignificant in front of the entity holding the universe together to be a statement of how if he wanted he could destroy the universe by exerting a muscle a bit more than usual. The guy wasn't even talking about raw strength.
Also, consider your source, of course the magic space wizard is going to push magic 😂. Although, considering the non combat uses of the force, he might have a point, still not going to help them against the saiyans though
An average jedi being able to destroy a planet doesn't really make sense why would sidous and Vader some of the strongest force users ever build a death star if they could just destroy the planet with their own power
9:43 The greatest feats of the force has done through sith artifacts, not individual power. The crosair could create supernovas and an inexperienced user riped out a core despite both lacking the power to do either by themselves.
Even the weaker Sayians like Gokus brother Raditz would be a huge problem for the Jedi. Only the Jedi Masters have a remote chance, but even then I see them losing more times then winning. Now lets put the Jedi against Nappa, a far more powerful Saiyan. This dude raised 2 fingers and deleted an entire city instantly. Pretty sure the Jedi are completely f**ked if Nappa shows up.
@@yeikelamores6085 games don’t really get pre extinction saiyans much higher, and yeah Ik about characters like time breaker bardok or DB heroes king vegeta but that’s not the version of the characters being spoken about.
when using a Jedi order for scaling, i would recommend using the jedi order from the old republic mmo or knights of the old republic. both of those eras (but specially MMO order) have multiple Jedi characters facing siths with planetary feats and only a couple of characters from modern era can compare(mostly luke). The most well known example would be the hero of tyhoon/outlander/commander of the alliance defiting the sith emperor(a villan capable of destroying planets even in his etheral form after being severly weakened and is said to be the most powerful non god force user ever)multiple times and also being able to defeat the machine gods who are at the same level
btw all saiyans can destroy planets, weakest saiyans aka low class wariors like Raditzz had power level 1k+ they can transform in to Ozaru (10x multiplayer) , king Vegeta had PL 10k and he could blast 3 planets solo so yea just army of death stars that can think.
As for saiyans cannot stop Frieza attack is because (Frieza can just put more power into his attack if they saiyans can actually push it back for a moment. But that don’t matter because the attack that Frieza made can be calc to large star level which no saiyan on planet Vegeta is even close to become.)
I still feel like the Sayians would win with hit and run tactics. Both series are REALLY inconsistent in terms of power. But I think theres more ground for your average Saiyan being planetary than your average Jedi. Personally, I just see most Jedi getting speed blitzed if not, just out right destroyed by city-leveling ki blasts. If they did fight, the only ones alive would just be top tiers and that's it.
@@eddieboston6540 EU was cannon for way longer than Disney cannon so a lot of fans reman attached to legends. Disney cannon is for a new generation of Star Wars fans
The problem is, frequently moving planets opens them up to space battles, and only the Jedi use ships with actual weapons on them. If they were caught on the move by Anakin alone, they would probably be completely wiped out within the hour.
Tl;dr The Jedi Order wins, but with heavy casualties. Most of the average padawans/knights are overpowered by the average Saiyans but would hold out a good while due to hax. Your stronger tier knights (Anakin) and (most) Jedi Masters (Yoda, Mace, Plo Koon, etc) dog-walk the Saiyan army. Only King Vegeta, Vegeta and Bardock would stand any chance, and they'd need their great ape forms to even do that. Even with that, the Jedi Masters would hax their way to victory and hack the Saiyans to pieces.
i personally see this as a complete stomp for the saiyans every death in star wars even for the strongest of characters is so low tier that even if they have planetary ap i cant see them surviving a single hit frorm a low class saiyan
@@Blue9k they die from blasters, lightsabers and this kind of staff even when they are on guard ep 2 is a good example of how the jedi were dying like flies against the blasters of droids on geonosis
@@Blue9k jedi vs saiyan and the 300 jedi who were deployed to geonosis would have to be the best they had at that point it means a lot about the jedi order and their abilities as a whole and yes jedi dying to a lightsaber is an anti-feat lightsabers arent planetary in ap or dc (btw if i remember correctly a few council members died in geonosis)
@@argy7526 those Jedi having to be the strongest at the time is head canon lmao you can't prove that. The reason why Jedi dying to lightsabers is not an anti feat is cause they are amped by force Aug aka their actual ap. the council member that died to jango was again a featless Jedi, and before you bring this up, just because you're on the council doesn't mean you have to be a certain strength level, they value experience and wisdom more than anything else, it's why despite rots anakin being stronger than any Jedi on the council they still refused to put on the council due to his mental state.
So the issue with Nappa is that his full power was not 4,000... That's just base Nappa, his real power level is closer to 8,000... Nappa and Vegeta make a big deal about Goku's power level being "OVER 8,000!?" because Nappas full power was probably 8,000.... Plus, Nappa is able to hang with Goku, exchanging hits and dodging hits, even forcing Goku to use kaioken to stop him from attacking Gohan and Krillin.... There's no reason Goku should have needed to use kaioken if Nappa was only at 4,000 because he'd already be at least twice as fast/powerful... Full power Nappa was at 8,000
@@Chckster yeah he exchanges multiple blows with an 8K+ Goku and he even forces Goku to use Kaioken.... Everything makes perfect sense if full power Nappa is at 8k opposed to 4k... That makes him the 3rd strongest saiyan elite right behind King and Prince Vegeta who were probably around 10k - 15k... otherwise Nappa at 4k would've been too weak to be a saiyan elite and the General of the whole army with low class saiyans like Bardock and most of his crew being above 4k... lol...
@@Chcksterthe difference is that Nappa wasn't as skilled as Goku. They're pretty solidly in the same realm of strength, but Goku is a much better fighter.
What you guys need to keep in mind when regarding Jedi, is that during the Clone Wars, literally the whole Jedi Order was nerfed by the bat-shit insane presence of the Dark Side within the galaxy. The Jedi Temple was built on top of a Sith shrine, which also just so happened to be a Dark Side nexus. Also, Darth Sidious was literally right there under their noses the whole time, and he was so powerful, that his presence alone made Jedi a lot weaker than they would have been otherwise. The Light Side was being smothered, thus clouding the vision of the whole Order. Most Jedi of the Clone Wars would still go down pretty easily to even the weaker Saiyans, but more experienced and powerful Jedi Masters would be a huge problem, especially if they deem the threat big enough, to actually stop holding back like the Jedi Code always cautions them to.
Honestly, I can only see the common Saiyan death being space battle related those Saiyan pods look like Venator food EVEN THOSE BOOMER ASS Y-WINGS WOULD SHOOT DOWN PLEANTY. After all Saiyans can’t survive in space however When it comes to Boots on ground due to Jedi code the Jedi would most likely be hesitant to kill Saiyans But I do think they still have the advantage due to superior Tech and Force Grip/Choke/Speed/strength/foresight List goes on
I think Saiyans are divided into 3 major classes of Warriors Low, Middle and High/Elite Classes With only King Vegeta and his son being Elites and over 10,000. Vegeta topping off at 18,000. Middle Class would be anywhere between 4000 to 10,000 Low Class averaging to over 1000. Though there are many Saiyans lower than that. That will still make them stronger than Moon Busters such as early Muten Roshi and Piccolo. If you think about it, that's really terrifying. They are stronger than Nukes, reusable nukes.
Kinda weird to me that so many people are trying to bring up the Jedi being gunned down by Clone Troopers... even though we know they were basically a caught off guard AND we know something similar stuff has happened in Dragon Ball itself: - Goku getting hurt by a rock in SSJ. 💀 - Goku getting taken out by a little ring laser while in SSJB. 💀 Look, I'm a Dragon Ball fan and clearly Lonk is too lol. But I don't think enough people are aware of material for Star Wars outside of the movies... I understand their definitely the most mainstream thing about Star Wars... but come on... Ki and the Force are honestly very similar power systems in general, stuff like Ki control and Force augmentation are able to allow the users to increase and decrease their stats overall.
Anime Z Goku Beats Manga Z Goku easy Anime Goku scales to Anime Kid Buu who is the strongest buu (specifically anime) who puts Goku over Buuhan unlike Manga Z Goku
Disagree with planetary jedi. If so, why didn't Vader just blow up the rebel base in... well, ESB or ANH. And I know it's not legends but Yoda struggling to move a mountain with the force is one of his better feats. Overall I think Saiyans destroy, and a more fair fight would be every jedi vs. 23rd budokai goku.
The precong work so well they didn't see the clones betraying them. If it didn't see that, its honestly a huge anit feat. How did it not see that but will see the sayins invading? Makes no sense lol
The frieza force only having a max of 100k members seems so oddly small. Frieza has a space empire comquering and selling planets across the galaxy, but somehow he doesnt even have 10% the workforce of amazon 😂 Amazon even has close to 300k delivery drivers, and the US government has a few million people each in both combat and non combat roles. Hell, even the california nation guard has like 20-30k members, and theres no way that the military force of a galactic empire or the fighting power of an entire warrior race is smaller than that of a single US state 💀💀💀
Genuinely curious, has there ever been actually shown a Jedi or sith blow a planet up because I feel like just because they state something does not mean it’s true just like countless dragon ball villains calling themselves invincible but ending up getting incinerated. Jedi I understand holding back I guess because they are good but if that’s true why don’t the siths just don’t and destroy the Jedi immediately, they don’t need clone troopers to fight a war if you can destroy solar systems and move massively faster than light. This whole scaling of Star Wars feels like a massive fallacy
Or like how kid Goku destroyed a manga panel so does that mean kid Goku solos all of Star Wars and most of fiction? Technically King Vegeta scales millions of times stronger than kid Goku are they beyond all fiction now 😂?
Turles, king Vegeta , bardock and nappa alone are capable of wiping out jedi. Their would probably be casualties on both sides but the Saiyans would still pull through. Saiyans will.
The thing is, saiyans would just swarm the planet, and when it's even fight they would transform all of them into great apes, and yes even though top fighters would still no diff them, all other jedis would be dead by that point. So if they don't have to fight till the last one standing, saiyans wins, and even if they do, the only surviving jedies would be those 3. There is also very likely scenario that the planet they are fighting on would just be destroyed during the fight, and then it depends on who is invading, wins.
You realize Force wave makes the Jedi stronger right? If the Saiyans do that the Jrdi use Force Wave and amp themselves off of the Saiyans power , weakening them and defeating them
I don’t think using the content of the legend was a good idea, the majority of these stories are made without paying attention to the rest and often created many inconsistencies with other comics of the legend or with the movies themselves
I dont think that theres ever been an indication that jedi, are capable of destroying planet. Personally every single statement saying that something that can destroy a planet is nothing compared to the force is hard jedi cope. Luke skywalker in empire strikes back, could not physically lift his x-wing out of the mud. While hes obviously weaker then Darth Vader, there wasnt much to indicate that there was some sort of infinitely greater physical difference in power. Darth Nihlus, is specifically labeled an outlier in his verse with life draining a planet. I interpret the force is greater than a device that can destroy a planet, is not as in direct power, but rather those with the force gain access to abilities that allow them to commit heroic feats. Such as causing ion torpedos to go down an air vent. So the Jedi dont scale, to planetary levels of AP (Thatd make no sense given that Jedi can die by being shot by a gun. Or hit with a blaster bolt) Starwars powerscaling is hilariously dishonest, because were saying that Han Solo has light speed reaction time, a guy who would for all intent and purposes couldnt dodge a bullet.
I think its an assumption that the force would just bypass ki, as well as the force requires a lot of concentration, which is why in combat it is almost always limited to pushes, pulls, physical enhancement. 2nd, the "force" is described as a phyical force that is everywhere and is even countered by other force users, so what happens if a ki blast is mid flight and someone force pushes? Which one wins? I think you are downplaying if ki would be able to match the force in many defensive regards as the force does to itself. Frieza who could telekinetically make people explode "somehow" could only do it to people far weaker than him, why wouldnt the same apply to the force, with ki effectively making the saiyans immune to push and pull unless it overpowered them? 3rd, I think we are discounting that saiyans have technology that makes it extremely easy for them to avoid, or target those higher power individuals very easily called scouters. As soon as they touched down they would analyze the threat the same way Vegeta and Nappa did, and as soon as an Anakin, Yoda, or Mace are revealed (probably before the attack) they would probably launch a volley or one really powerful attack that even if only moon level the Jedi couldn't outrun, out durability since they die by much weaker attacks. Mace Windu was killed with lightning and a fall. There is nothing stopping the saiyans from just flying to lower orbit and glassing the temple, unless you believe the force is overwhelmingly stronger than ki despite it never being shown to have that power without significant setup or plot derived situations.
@@Kodeuk Sidious being beyond the power of the final order with each star destroyer having Death Star level lazers. In the marvel Vader comics (2020) we see that palpatine is able to have full control and withstand the force of the massive bundle of kyber crystals that would go on to power the final order. Seeing as the final order had a total of 1000 star destroyers palpatines ap would equal that of 1000 death stars
i feel like the “ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the force” quote is definitely a metaphor 😭. Like why would the most powerful force users in the galaxy spend their resource on 3 planet destroying space tings. And furthermore with hundreds of named force users why are no examples of someone using the force to destroy a planet? Why did Jedi not use the force to destroy separatist cruisers which are much smaller than planets. And how do non force users like general grievous, jango fett and savage oppress (at the time ) kill jedi MASTERS. It just don’t make sense for jedi to be planet level. I got a sibamen over half the jedi council 👎
You didn’t bring up the saiyans can go 10x stronger and can create fake moons at any time. Plus nappa and the other elite saiyans have ki barriers making light sabers useless.
@@mattmcwhirt4146 Ozaru vegeta's only advantage is brute force. Jedi also use force barrier's and use the force to amp themselves. If a Jedi's connection to the force matches the amount of chi a Saiyan has access too its an even fight. Chi and the fire are very similar.
@@crimsonking4151 ki blasts and light sabers would not be all that effective for the top tiers they have ways of negating them but ozaru vegetas ap and speed would be too great for the top tier Jedis. Legends Star Wars is crazy I think there is a statement about sidiouss power being universal.
The average Saiyan (scaling to Raditz at above Moon but below planet level…so between Moon level + and Small Planet level…is stronger than the average Jedi. But the strongest Jedi stomp the strongest regular Saiyans. Vegeta at 18,000 is their peak. In the manga he’s planet level and in the anime he’s Large Planet to Dwarf Star based on King Vegeta’s feat Padawan and Jedi Knights can scale all over the place, but Jedi Masters and Council Members have solid planet level feats and scaling. Stronger council members can scale ridiculously higher. Up to Star level in Disney Canon and anywhere from Solar System to Universal+ in legends depending on if we use the Clone Wars Jedi order or Luke’s Jedi order Speed wise, the Saiyans get to the Rel/Rel + ranges and Jedi get to FTL+ in Disney’s MFTL in legends. With the speed difference even the weaker Jedi could put hax the Saiyans though they usually won’t go for as lethal force hax as Sith so the Saiyans at the lower level still have a chance
@notacat284 Too bad their not stronger the Force is above all Mathematical Structures and the PT Jedi scale above the S3 Celestials who Embody the Force
Sorry but I disagree. The Jedi are strong and they do have tons of HAX, but the Saiyans are far more durable and they come back stronger after being critically injured. And with their mastery of Ki, they can simply try to blow up whatever planet the Jedi are on.
People are hurt about the scaling because its Legends stuff. If this was sith... Vadar would just force chocke the elites from another galaxy. Outside of that, Force Ghost! Jedi would die, noe one would need to wish them back, yet they would stand right next to the sayian and destroy them. Only sayian that could survive at that time is baby Broly lol. Jedi wouls take him in and call him the "chosen one."
@@Kira22558 bro, i know my Star Wars and George Lucas himself even ranked the power levels of sw characters from 1-10 making their power levels WAY weaker than dragon ball ones! Even baby z broly solos
I like the Sayians but Im more of a Starwars fan....Legends Luke, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Quigon, and Yoda all would give regular sayians problems because jedi mind control
Bardock stated to have a power level of 10k could destroy a planet bc in one of the data books it states that you need 10k power level to destroy a planet so king vegeta would at least have a power level of 30k bc he legit destroyed 3 planets with the flick of his hand also the Saiyans have there zenkai boosts also super Saiyan so if there pushed over the line they get a 50x that’s pretty big
People saying that the Jedi don’t have feats akin to the saiyans haven’t read any legends material. Luke at his peak collapsed a black hole. Starkiller brought down an imperial starship.
If your analysis were correct, palpatine would not need a death star in the first place. But as the movies stated He needed a weapon to destroy planets because he couldn't destroy planets by himself. If he could, there would be no point in a death star. The jedis were wiped out by normal dudes using guns. And here you are stating that 1000 warriors that can throw nukes in a city with 2 fingers would lose. Im starting to think you just did this because you know its gonna get you comments, and if thats the way you are going to do videos ill probably lose interest in your channel
General Grievous was a blender of Jedi and I just don't see how a faction who's beginners and intermediates were getting clowned on by one single cyborg could deal with even 1 Great Ape Squad without Yoda, Anakin, or Sidious. Without all the extremely weird Legends scaling and feats that barely translate to a interstellar war the Jedi are cooked because how do any of them stop King Vegeta handwaving Coruscant from orbit? It doesn't even need to be King Vegeta really, it could be anyone around Nappa's strength with how casual King Vegeta did it. And the Infant of Shaa feat makes zero sense. Zam Wessel compares what Poof does to disarming a bomb. Poof doesn't make a forcefield to contain an explosion that the Infant gives off. Jedi aren't anywhere close to planetary.
People forget goku is basically a jedi he has telekinesis, mind reading abilities, and is about to use his power to move objects like "the force" and then goku is also a God...
I think It's not impossible for a master jedi to defeat a strong saiyan. Force and Ki are the same thing, what changes is the way it is used. In Dragon Ball they rely on internal energy, while in SW they use external energy. In Star Wars instead of training their body to increase their on Ki they train to gather the one emitted by the living beings around them, the Ki of the universe itself. At first glance this approach may look less efficient than the one used in DB, but it has its advantages.
Cyber Crystalls In Star Wars In Canon Were Stated To Be Equal To The Neutron Stars So Lightsabers are op untill Disney nerfed them... And Thats Why The Cyber Crystalls are rare in the galaxy and expensive + Chanells the force. Vader strikes impact with the force is above planetary with a lightsaber
"Jedi are on solar system level with two young jedi fighting supposedly being enough to destroy an entire planet" and yet they are regularly defeated by falling relatively short distances, are outmatched by a few people with guns, are slower than most vehicles in their own canon, cannot take any serious damage at all without dying practically instantly (until Disney decided that a lightsaber to the chest is extremely non-lethal), are constantly being outsmarted by an old guy, and are pushed to the point of practical extinction by...more guys with guns. Yeah no, they are not anywhere near as powerful as the fan stories like to try to make them out to be, especially compared to Saiyans who are on average able to destroy moons and planets with ease in an instant, meanwhile the most powerful force user in their canon needs a giant moon base that took years to build to be able to slowly take out one planet at a time and is constantly being defeated by his own inept, untrained son. Demonstrated feats in the actual canon are the only ones that truly matter.
the star wars EU isn't canon why use it only the movies and stuff disney has made. i get not liking disney killed the old EU but you have to accept it's no longer canon.
Man ive been watching your videos for a moment now … insanely close ? Wth you mean hahaha your clearly out of your mind and you’ve been having this analysis for a while … man have some courage… dbz characters are above everyone and everything you could ever bring on the table … insanity of videos you have…
Jedi don’t actually have FTL feats or reflexes. “Jedi reflexes” are precognition. They’re “reacting” before the event happens, so not actually reacting. It’s anticipating. If they reacted faster than blaster bolts we’d not be able to see them move instead of the casual flicks they do to redirect them.
@@lilomega7390to quote Master Quigon- “He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It is a Jedi trait.” They can move faster than the eye can follow but that’s a far cry from light speed.
Like i said unless a b1 battle droid is island level this is just wrong, also the strongest feat we know is a force storm which is a wormhole and the strongest thing that do was destroy a fleet. Also jedis are extremely fragile, use to much force and they die and a blaster is gonna kill them easily, just for reference a blaster is not a plasma gun but a photon gu. Meaning it fires light, this can be stopped with plastoid armor which is just plastic. So yeah thats how durable jedis are
If the Saiyans are fighting stupid then maybe the Jedi can win but if they’re fighting smart they’ll just blitz 99% of the Jedi and jump the rest or get king vegeta to blow up all the planets with the republic on them with the snap of his fingers.
The scaling chain is a bit off here. While there is a legitimate argument to be made that Palpatine is the strongest Sith in history, that only truly applies at the peak of his power. RotS Palpatine is considerably weaker than Dark Empire Palpatine, and would almost certainly have lost to the likes of Vitiate, peak Revan, and possibly Exar Kun as well had he fought them at the time. We do actually have lore from the old EU regarding how the ancient Sith compare to him. And the answer is quite well. As his visit to Korriban after the Battle of Yavin resulted in his near DEATH after he pissed off the mummified Sith Lords and demanded their knowledge. So no, we can't scale the top Jedi of the Clone Wars above the ancient powerhouses. Especially not when the Jedi Academy Trilogy actually had Luke come into conflict with the spirit of Exar Kun and LOSE. We're talking about a Luke from 11 ABY, who accolades and statements all strongly point to being above Yoda, Mace, and Anakin. As he gave he a much better fight to a Reborn Palpatine at peak power than Yoda did to a considerably weaker Palpatine.
@@lonkstakes Any statements made that early are already shaky as hell, because it means they came out before there was any kind of developed backstory for the Sith. With characters like Vitiate, who is widely regarded in Star Wars vs debating circles as a serious potential rival to Reborn Palpatine, not having even been conceived of yet. But even if we do treat those statements as the gospel truth...it doesn't really negate my point. The Prequel Trilogy did not exist at that point in time, and thus those statements were only relevant to Palpatine much later in his life. Not to the Palpatine of the Clone Wars, who would later go on to attain even more power than he already had. The way you've described Mace and Yoda battling him doesn't take into account that they never fought him at his true peak.
Yareal poof contained a solar system level bomb, 0pp rancicisis amped armies in an entire solar system, shaakti turned a planet into light side nexus by just her presence, Yoda telepathically sensed and felt the death of every jedi that died on a galaxy scale etc. The Sith like Sidious shook planets, stars and formed constellations with his aura and darkened the diminished the abilities of the jedi to use the force on a galaxy wide scale mind you this isnt even peak Sidious. So yes the jedi and Sith would win this by a landslide
I will say destroying a planet in DB is not the same as in real world as they have planets with 10x more gravity than Earth. Also for the planet level scaling and premonition only to get genocided by clone troopers.
Bro how do ppl not know saiyans invade a planet and if they can’t they destroy it or go great ape and destroy it casually and it’s not the combined power one saiyans is enough to destroy a planet
The King Vegeta destroying three planet's feat is Anime exclusive. didnt happen in the source material (manga). so some ppl might not consider it a real factor in how powerful king vegeta is
The manga isn't the end all be all in dragon ball toriyama has even stated this, he even included bardock from the original special in the manga via a flashback from Frieza on namek so imo specials and anime exclusive can be considered canon so long as it doesn't effect the story to the point of derailing or contradiction ie: anime exclusive info about Saiyans which doesn't contradict canon story can be seen as canon
I watched every movie (Secuels included) plus comics and animated series The Star Wars verse has a good cosmology with the force being probably just too op for dragon ball But the strongest Jedi/sith is planetary
Nothing they can do if they decided to just blow the planet up. We saw how much hype the death star had. Now imagine that sayins can just do it casually. Plus, they got wreck by a bunch of clones lol
When using hax in dragon ball things become questionable, master roshi who is literally a martial arts master told both krillin and goku that strength and power matters most not skill and hax in dragon ball are broken such as being able to freeze time by holding your breath to turn someone into a carrot with a touch, and all of those hax can simply be rendered usless if the target is stronger than the user, thats just the nature of ki, plus saiyans grow stronger during battle and if they survive a near death experience not by their own hands, and these boost in power are no joke vegeta went from being the rival to fodder of the freiza army to being comparable to one of freiza generals, if the jedi high tiers doesn't go for the kill the saiyans will win. Outside of that this could go either way but i see the jedi having the edge to a certain extent
Love how Jedi have to go into deep never canon bullshit to even kinda stand a chance against anyone from Dragonball.
TRUE? I also love how it has to reduce and ignore more than one Dragon Ball feat in addition to having to take the Saiyans at their worst and take out any important Saiyan, for example if we will use non-Canon things, one could argue that every Saiyan that is stronger than Garlick Jr is 5d since he was able to Create a Hyper space with his own power
Canon still is an Marvel Megaverse so not really needed
You seem pretty pressed over this
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou Not really mad or anything, it's just true. I love Star Wars, I grew up with the original trilogy. I can quote word for word half the movies, but when it comes to power scaling, they are just not there. But that was never the point of the story. the Jedi were philosophical and spiritual, they were not planet destroying death machines. Even back in the time before Disney took over the Legends cannon was seen as nothing more than an over-the-top fan fiction.
@@percivalknightoftheflames855 shut thr hell up you troll commenting everywhere or you are just a dumb Star Wars Stan
Dude I'm sorry, but the Jedi masters were all killed by simple laser guns. Saying that they have planetary attack potential is nuts. Why would the Emperor build a giant planet killing space weapon if he could simply blow planets up himself? If the Sith could destroy planets whenever they wanted, they would actively be doing that. Also, regular people like Boba Fest have killed tons of Jedi in legends, is he planetary as well??
Remember when SSJB Goku got taken out by a little ring laser?
The Jedi much like Goku in that situation, were all caught off guard.
Ki control and Force augmentation are very similar, they're both used to control the overall output of power for strength, speed, durability, ect.
Also, AP doesn't equal DC, the Jedi have a lot of AP, the Death Star has more DC, the Emperor had it built as more of a scare tactic to enforce the control of HIS empire and his alone.
Goku lost to a heart virus.
What’s your point?
Boba can beat Goku.
Let’s add salt to this wound
@@GokulosestoavirusNope I went on the battles wiki and Palpatines attack potency and Durability stand at a solar system level at max while Goku on the battles wiki has low multiverse scaling so Star Wars gets clapped
Vader said it himself the power to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the force
and for the Saiyans the power to destroy a planet is also insignificant
If you're stronger in Dragonball then your hax won't help you
Well we haven’t seen anything much from the Force so I call Sith Arrogance.
@@kingatlanofatlantis3075 💀
Seeing as no Jedi has ever displayed the ability to singlehandedly bust planets, that’s a purely academic statement.
SpongeBob wins of course, he’s multiversal +++-+++-+++
there an actual arguement for spongebob being multiversersal 💀
@@ohnoanyway6096
No, because I said SpongeBob is “multiveral +++-+++-+++”, you just said just “multiversal”.
Spongebob is omni king.
Nah he is Hyperversal
@@unapersonanormal784
My mistake, her’s Real life versal +++++++++++++++++++++-+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So an elite fighting force of planetary level fighters all got mass murdered by clone troopers? kinda sus
Remember when SSJB Goku got taken out by a little ring laser?
The Jedi much like Goku in that situation, were all caught off guard.
Ki control and Force augmentation are very similar, they're both used to control the overall output of power for strength, speed, durability, ect.
They are not planetary. Lonk ignored the bottom right corner of the page he showed. The a council member prevented a planet busting device by stabilizing it at the cost of his life. He was not dying beforehand, he does not have to be as powerful as the device and it litteraly took more than he had in him.
Definitely sus. 😂
Hold up the infant of Shaa feat can’t be applied to Jedi knights or Jedi masters as we have no proof that regular Jedi can replicate this move so saying the average Jedi knight is planet level does not make sense
exactly
Yup. If king Vegeta and many of the other early saiyans could each easily ki blast and destroy whole damn planet. Both Jedi and Sith stand no chance lol. And that's merely against base saiyans.
Neither Jedi or Sith have EVER proven to even be country level lmao. Just think.. when the Rebellion really wanted to destroy the death star, Luke, who was at the time the most powerful Jedi could just use the force to crush the whole Death Star, therefore ACTUALLY justifying planetary level power. And that's just a fact even though neckbeared redditor star wars fans will do anything to prove that wrong 😂😂
My only argument for the Jedi is to come close enough to a Jedi "acting as a civilian" and starting a conversation, then using the Jedi mind control power to turn Saiyans against each other.. that's their best plan in my opinion.
@@aurochsbeats yeah and it’s weird because the Jedi planets feat don’t make sense because it’s contradicted by the movies and a lot of other stuff. like why didn’t use they’re planet level power to do this or to bust that a problem dragon ball doesn’t have.
It makes more sense than saying the average saiyan is planetary.
@@Auron1Roxas2 I never said the sayains were planetary but they are moon level seeing as what goku was capable of
I think the thing about jedi powerscaling is that the jedi code itself causes them to hold back their power alot which is part of the reason why they were able to be killed by clones when off guard. If regular clones are able to kill even some of the counsel members through surprise attack its possible that a large majority of the temple would die if the saiyans decide to all attack at once creating a moon and just stomping on the jedi. Though this assuming that the parties stay in character and the saiyans are invading not the other way around. Obviously mace yoda and anakin would be able to deal with any saiyan in a one on one fight but what would happen if they just nuke the planet with ki? its kinda interesting since the while the jedi might have way more hax their alot more invincible on paper than in practice due to the code where saiyans never really held back and went all in off rip
That's what I'm saying. I feel most jedi would be wiped out while the remaining heavy hitters do all the work.
This implies that the Jedis could defeat other enemies that saiyans can deal without problems, like the viltrumites, most people in naruto (that DB of Obito vs Vader), and the MCU (at least most of it).
@@kepabra3782 I don't think this is a good idea to escalate, since the guy used the strongest versions of the characters, in the strongest continuity (which is not canon) and even Wank some SW Feats
Part of that is due to the impact mass deaths have on Jedi, it really messes with them and can weaken their connection to the Force overtime albeit temporarily. This is part of the reason Order 66 was as successful as it was, by the time it happened most Jedi had spent months if not years fighting on the front lines as their troops died around them, they simply couldn't focus enough to pick up that hint of intent and most of those that could couldn't react well enough to survive the onslaught especially not with the mass death of their fellow Jedi rippling through the Force.
@@yeikelamores6085 Ahh legends, yeah I see now.
Am I the only person who thinks that the way people powerscale Jedi is fucking insane?
The Jedi were all killed off almost to the last by regular dudes with regular blaster guns. Do you really expect me to believe that those chumps could all go toe-to-toe with planetbusting saiyan warriors?
exactly, and he used specifically non-canon things, in addition to more than a few atypical Feats and reduced the power of the Saiyans quite a bit, for example, the speed of the Saiyans or their power, this guy always massively underestimates Dragon ball
This is only because the Movies don't go into context for all this and BTW the Jedi were only killed by Clones off guard anyways
To be fair, that's basically a Krillin rock level feat for the clones, the Saiyans would also get fucked if some dude shot them in the back of the head with a regular gun.
@@notme8232 Goku of 10 power, was shot in the head with a gun, it did nothing to him
@notme8232 Uh no. Goku as a kid took a bullet to the head by bulma,machine gun fire, and a sniper bullet to the head while unaware from a red ribbon army sniper.
Been waiting for this one
In conclusion the force is op
As A Star Wars Fan I Can Scale The Force To 5 + Dimensional Universal Level Which Is Close To Super Saiyan God Form Which Is 7 Dimensional Universal.
@@ДмитрийРубежов-э1б bruh Goku in DBs only scales to 4D and in dBH to 6D-7D. Honestly Star Wars has higher scaling than that, not just 5D, since there is Outerversal stuff I think
The moment you said Legends Star Wars I knew it was GG for Dragonball LOL
yea but those a fodder dragonball fighters. star wars even legends get stomp by buu era
@@eddieboston6540 Hundreds of fictional characters get stomped by buu era characters, most jedi consistently are capable of better feats than most of the dragonball cast save for maybe Goku and Vegeta, buu. You have characters like Luke skywalker who can casually manipulate black holes, galaxy spanning levels of telekinesis and more. Dragon ball definitely has better strength feats but when it comes to Haxs star wars takes it.
so use the strongest incarnation of the characters in the strongest race (not canon also), vs using the Saiyans at their worst, removing all the important Saiyans, using only canon and after that reducing the Feats considerably Of them, I don't think it's a fair discussion.
@@majortughjedi9813almost everything you said sounds fodder for the Namek era of characters, for example anime Frieza destroyed a galaxy and collapsed the explosion while he was half dead,I also doubt the Hax part
@@yeikelamores6085 when did frieza every destroy a galaxy during namek saga? Ive never once seen a single guide book ever claim frieza was that level. That literally contradicts Cell's own feat of being Solar system level which was confirmed by not only the manga but the anime and guide books as well. Buu is infact galaxy level but Frieza definitely was not
7:23 So this isn’t about how strong the Jedi are Canonically. George Lucas ignored Legends, and it’s been a decade since Legends was relegated to licensed fan fiction.
EDIT: how can any Jedi be Planetary level? If Obi Wan was planetary level, why would the Death Star even matter?
He was a old man that got weaker, that's been stated so if a guy that's planet level got weaker against a planet buster
Obi wan has planet level ap not planet level dc
So of course if a planet buster gets weaker he wouldn't get the durability anymore to survive those attacks, its like Gohan getting weaker because he didn't train, even Goku can be hurt by a bullet which did happen so a freaking giant laser coming down to a old man that didn't train for so many years means a big deal
Because attack potency and destructive capacity aren’t the same thing.
You are wrong.
If Lucas didn't care about the legends. Why would he change the relationship of the Yuuzhan Vong to the Force? Originally, they were supposed to be immune to the Force like the Yslamiri, but Lucas had it changed so that the Vong had no connection to the Force at all. If Lucas didn't care about legends, then explain why Lucas decided to change the entire Thrawn trilogy, which was originally supposed to have an evil Ben Kenobi clone, but Lucas didn't like that and forced it to change, giving us Joruus C'baoth. If Lucas didn't care about legends, then explain why Lucas forced the plot of Dark Empire, which was originally meant to be a Vader imposter, and had it changed to Reborn Palpatine, and this also ties into why Episode III has Palpatine talking about cheating death. If Lucas didn't care about legends, then explain why Force Unleashed, which was originally supposed to be a game about a Wookiee smashing things like a Hulk game, became a game about Vader's secret apprentice, Starkiller.
I can go on and on, but there's a whole ton of decisions made by Lucas that significantly affects the lore of Star Wars EU.
Here are good videos that talks about how Lucas views about the EU or Legends
th-cam.com/video/TxTGIY7n5TU/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/zwCSxyyOdus/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/gchIYyeQVxM/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/AZnxX2mPW1o/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/ZhTN1yTiYgI/w-d-xo.html
If a single saiyan can move 350 X FTL the jedi wouldn't even see him kill them all in a split second
Powerscaling star wars is aways a crazy ride, because shit get funny in the old cannon (star wars legends) not in the level of dragon ball, but yet, you don't expect old man palpatine destroying a planet with force lightning or yoda fighting a literal fucking mountain
@@DiasOctavio oh bro you're atleast sane I saw pepole scaling palpatine in hyperversal to outerversal.
FTL is an Joke in SW
@@abhijeetgolder7535How can someone escalate Palpatine to that level? the best thing I've seen for people more powerful than Palpatine is multiversal
Blasters Bolts Were Stated As Lightspeed level in both canon and Legends And Even A Regular Jedi Padawan Like Ashoka Long Time Ago Was Able To Dodge Ten Of Them Easily After A Couple Attempts So Jedi Masters Are Significantly More Powerfull And Vader In Legends is massively faster then light@@yeikelamores6085
Star wars scaling goes crazy.
Canon Peaks at solar system level legends peaks at universal in comparison Dragon Ball peaks at low multiverse so Goku solos both canon and legends
I'm going with Saiyans. Seeing how Jedi were gunned down by the clones. Saiyans probably brush off the same assault and laugh. Saiyans can take a lot more punishment in a fight. And Jedi get limbs cut off with lightsabers all the time but I think they would bounce off Saiyan bodies especially if they are in their great ape forms
Yajorobis normal sword cut trought great ape vegeta. Who was lot stronger than any sayin at that point.
@@Benja21740 yeah except yajorobi was not normal human at all NOT to mention that cut was surprised attack... people really underestimate low tier characters in DB.
@@cloverkingdom6341but yajirobe had a powerlevel of less than 900 while vegeta had 160,000 yet yajirobe caught him off guard why would you not presume a jedi with much more experence and intelligence couldn't so somthing similar to a saiyan in there base form
saiyans get beat to death and killed by death beam
@@crimsonking4151offguard and plus its dbs who cares
My Problem are KI blast. So maby example of Explosions that even Jedi Master´s couldnt stop from reaching them, now Imagine they just spam these. This match up is probably the coolest so far tho
Tutaminis In Star Wars Is Absorbing 5 + Dimensional Force Lightning With Insane Impact
@@ДмитрийРубежов-э1б proof that it is 5d
@@yeikelamores6085 Star wars universe has hyper space which is 4 d and The World between worlds
@@ДмитрийРубежов-э1б Last time I remember, hyperspace was outside the normal universe, plus it's 5d
This was a great video! I loved how concise and easy to understand your research was. Not gonna lie, while I did expect Yoda to sweep, I DID NOT expect the regular Saiyan and Jedi to be that evenly matched. I was under the impression that the average Saiyan stomped, but well color me surprised!
Great video!
Canonically no they are not. He's using star wars legends which is non-canon. He kind of had to or the jedi would have got stomped otherwise.
@@ROBSULL SW Canon still has Marvel Megaverse scaling they Stomp either way honestly
@@ROBSULL Legends is Cannon as much as dragon ball alt timelines and multiple cannon's are. The Bardock movie ai't even cannon to the manga but everyone loves to use it for the base of their scaling. Disney and legends are two separate cannons just like DBS manga and anime. Cuz if you compare Disney cannon to the manga SW stomps easily. So just stop acting like he's wanking when he explicitly stated he was putting the saiyans against the legends version of characters. Btw SWEU was cannon for three decades compared to Disney cannon's one decade. so it easy to see why fans who grew up on the SWEU wold feel salty that Disney Ctl alt Deleted the established continuity just to make way for their new stories and retcons.
@crimsonking4151 Where was it stated star wars Legends and Disney star wars were separate canons ? Star wars legends WAS canon until Disney. Don't get mad at me because Disney does what it always does.
@@ROBSULL You just said what I already said.
So would this mean Broly and Star Killer would be their side's strongest versions?
probably yes
nah broly wiped out a galaxy and in dragon ball solar system are far bigger
Nope
@@eddieboston6540 a Galaxy in dragon ball refers to a quadrant of the universe ie: south Galaxy = south quadrant, and no broly did not destroy south Galaxy but he did destroy a Galaxy just not a whole quadrant (confused yet?) But also yes statements from official sources have explained that a solar system in Dragon ball would be considered a Galaxy by our standards and a true galaxy in dragon ball would still house multiple of these solar system, can't remember where I read the statement from tho
@@theyounggodlobo
It doesn’t really matter in the context of this debate, as it’s exponentially more powerful than anything Starkiller has ever done regardless.
Despite saying you would use both super and Z statements you only mencioned the lader. Bardock in the manga is stated as a non low class by Gas and Radish is considerd a mid class by new statements so mid class are around 1000-2000. So nappa is indeed high class along side Paragus and the other background Saiyans on the Broly Movie with power level around 4000. In the Toriyama statement he says he wasn't sure how he would write on wards so it's unapdated. That didn't change the power estimate you said but, the is the second thing you ignored from the Broly Movie, it was said to Freeza that the Saiyans were half of his armie. In fact they were send to conquer planets into groups of 10 at least.
This is what I was saying during the whole explanation 😭👍
wasnt bardock said to have the level of power of a high class due to getting a fuck ton of zenkais?
@@asuraofwrath that also includes the lonk down playing king vegeta who destroyed the 3 three planets not even trying. If he were to try he could probably wipe out a solar system and some. Not to mention he actually survived all 3 exploding and saiyan can’t survive in space lol
Even if the average Saiyan had a power level of 300 they’d still be moon busters… I guess we’re supposed to believe that Jedi are immune to attacks of that magnitude when most of them were killed by normal blaster fire?
@@drksideofthewal I jenualy thought they were building level 🤣
I can't believe people take Vader's statement of the death star being insignificant in front of the entity holding the universe together to be a statement of how if he wanted he could destroy the universe by exerting a muscle a bit more than usual. The guy wasn't even talking about raw strength.
Also, consider your source, of course the magic space wizard is going to push magic 😂. Although, considering the non combat uses of the force, he might have a point, still not going to help them against the saiyans though
An average jedi being able to destroy a planet doesn't really make sense why would sidous and Vader some of the strongest force users ever build a death star if they could just destroy the planet with their own power
9:43 The greatest feats of the force has done through sith artifacts, not individual power. The crosair could create supernovas and an inexperienced user riped out a core despite both lacking the power to do either by themselves.
Even the weaker Sayians like Gokus brother Raditz would be a huge problem for the Jedi. Only the Jedi Masters have a remote chance, but even then I see them losing more times then winning.
Now lets put the Jedi against Nappa, a far more powerful Saiyan. This dude raised 2 fingers and deleted an entire city instantly. Pretty sure the Jedi are completely f**ked if Nappa shows up.
He's using star wars legends which is non-canon. The jedi would have got stomped otherwise if he used only star wars canon.
@@ROBSULLExactly, they Massively reduced the Saiyans and they only used canon for the Saiyans
@@yeikelamores6085Ppft what other “canon” is there for the saiyans pre-extinction?
@@DrUmar-gu4kp games, we could also use non-canon scale
@@yeikelamores6085 games don’t really get pre extinction saiyans much higher, and yeah Ik about characters like time breaker bardok or DB heroes king vegeta but that’s not the version of the characters being spoken about.
when using a Jedi order for scaling, i would recommend using the jedi order from the old republic mmo or knights of the old republic. both of those eras (but specially MMO order) have multiple Jedi characters facing siths with planetary feats and only a couple of characters from modern era can compare(mostly luke). The most well known example would be the hero of tyhoon/outlander/commander of the alliance defiting the sith emperor(a villan capable of destroying planets even in his etheral form after being severly weakened and is said to be the most powerful non god force user ever)multiple times and also being able to defeat the machine gods who are at the same level
Might you play Knights of the Old Republic II?
btw all saiyans can destroy planets, weakest saiyans aka low class wariors like Raditzz had power level 1k+ they can transform in to Ozaru (10x multiplayer) , king Vegeta had PL 10k and he could blast 3 planets solo so yea just army of death stars that can think.
As for saiyans cannot stop Frieza attack is because (Frieza can just put more power into his attack if they saiyans can actually push it back for a moment. But that don’t matter because the attack that Frieza made can be calc to large star level which no saiyan on planet Vegeta is even close to become.)
I still feel like the Sayians would win with hit and run tactics. Both series are REALLY inconsistent in terms of power. But I think theres more ground for your average Saiyan being planetary than your average Jedi. Personally, I just see most Jedi getting speed blitzed if not, just out right destroyed by city-leveling ki blasts. If they did fight, the only ones alive would just be top tiers and that's it.
Neither are inconsistent
@@Blue9k nah star wars end up like superhuman you need those non canon EU stuff to buff the verse up
@@eddieboston6540 canon gets to these levels too
@@eddieboston6540 EU was cannon for way longer than Disney cannon so a lot of fans reman attached to legends. Disney cannon is for a new generation of Star Wars fans
The problem is, frequently moving planets opens them up to space battles, and only the Jedi use ships with actual weapons on them. If they were caught on the move by Anakin alone, they would probably be completely wiped out within the hour.
Tl;dr
The Jedi Order wins, but with heavy casualties.
Most of the average padawans/knights are overpowered by the average Saiyans but would hold out a good while due to hax.
Your stronger tier knights (Anakin) and (most) Jedi Masters (Yoda, Mace, Plo Koon, etc) dog-walk the Saiyan army. Only King Vegeta, Vegeta and Bardock would stand any chance, and they'd need their great ape forms to even do that. Even with that, the Jedi Masters would hax their way to victory and hack the Saiyans to pieces.
i personally see this as a complete stomp for the saiyans every death in star wars even for the strongest of characters is so low tier that even if they have planetary ap i cant see them surviving a single hit frorm a low class saiyan
Their dura scales to their ap also if your talking about Jedi dying to blasters 99% of the time they are either off guard or those Jedi are featless
@@Blue9k they die from blasters, lightsabers and this kind of staff even when they are on guard ep 2 is a good example of how the jedi were dying like flies against the blasters of droids on geonosis
@@argy7526 them dying to lightsabers is not an anti feat. Also those jedi on geonosis are featless
@@Blue9k jedi vs saiyan and the 300 jedi who were deployed to geonosis would have to be the best they had at that point it means a lot about the jedi order and their abilities as a whole and yes jedi dying to a lightsaber is an anti-feat lightsabers arent planetary in ap or dc
(btw if i remember correctly a few council members died in geonosis)
@@argy7526 those Jedi having to be the strongest at the time is head canon lmao you can't prove that. The reason why Jedi dying to lightsabers is not an anti feat is cause they are amped by force Aug aka their actual ap. the council member that died to jango was again a featless Jedi, and before you bring this up, just because you're on the council doesn't mean you have to be a certain strength level, they value experience and wisdom more than anything else, it's why despite rots anakin being stronger than any Jedi on the council they still refused to put on the council due to his mental state.
So the issue with Nappa is that his full power was not 4,000... That's just base Nappa, his real power level is closer to 8,000...
Nappa and Vegeta make a big deal about Goku's power level being "OVER 8,000!?" because Nappas full power was probably 8,000....
Plus, Nappa is able to hang with Goku, exchanging hits and dodging hits, even forcing Goku to use kaioken to stop him from attacking Gohan and Krillin.... There's no reason Goku should have needed to use kaioken if Nappa was only at 4,000 because he'd already be at least twice as fast/powerful...
Full power Nappa was at 8,000
"Nappa is able to hang with Goku" yeah no.
@@Chckster yeah he exchanges multiple blows with an 8K+ Goku and he even forces Goku to use Kaioken....
Everything makes perfect sense if full power Nappa is at 8k opposed to 4k...
That makes him the 3rd strongest saiyan elite right behind King and Prince Vegeta who were probably around 10k - 15k... otherwise Nappa at 4k would've been too weak to be a saiyan elite and the General of the whole army with low class saiyans like Bardock and most of his crew being above 4k... lol...
@@reptilian_geneticist Napa’s full power is 8K but I think almost everything makes it clear he’s nothing to Goku.
@@Chcksterthe difference is that Nappa wasn't as skilled as Goku. They're pretty solidly in the same realm of strength, but Goku is a much better fighter.
@@uboa8060 5 months ago dude
What you guys need to keep in mind when regarding Jedi, is that during the Clone Wars, literally the whole Jedi Order was nerfed by the bat-shit insane presence of the Dark Side within the galaxy. The Jedi Temple was built on top of a Sith shrine, which also just so happened to be a Dark Side nexus. Also, Darth Sidious was literally right there under their noses the whole time, and he was so powerful, that his presence alone made Jedi a lot weaker than they would have been otherwise. The Light Side was being smothered, thus clouding the vision of the whole Order. Most Jedi of the Clone Wars would still go down pretty easily to even the weaker Saiyans, but more experienced and powerful Jedi Masters would be a huge problem, especially if they deem the threat big enough, to actually stop holding back like the Jedi Code always cautions them to.
8:57 Not at the brink of death, doing it killed him as Yango said on the page you showed.
Honestly, I can only see the common Saiyan death being space battle related those Saiyan pods look like Venator food EVEN THOSE BOOMER ASS Y-WINGS WOULD SHOOT DOWN PLEANTY.
After all Saiyans can’t survive in space however When it comes to Boots on ground due to Jedi code the Jedi would most likely be hesitant to kill Saiyans But I do think they still have the advantage due to superior Tech and Force Grip/Choke/Speed/strength/foresight
List goes on
The saiyans would obviously win (I’m biased)
one single saiyan can wipe them , the entire universe.
Well at least you admit it
Can you do Courage the Cowardly Dog vs Jujutsu Kaisen or Chainsaw Man or even Bleach.
I think Saiyans are divided into 3 major classes of Warriors
Low, Middle and High/Elite Classes
With only King Vegeta and his son being Elites and over 10,000. Vegeta topping off at 18,000.
Middle Class would be anywhere between 4000 to 10,000
Low Class averaging to over 1000. Though there are many Saiyans lower than that.
That will still make them stronger than Moon Busters such as early Muten Roshi and Piccolo. If you think about it, that's really terrifying.
They are stronger than Nukes, reusable nukes.
Just one word… Hakai.
3:32 Or Vegeta as the only elite left promoted him.
Kinda weird to me that so many people are trying to bring up the Jedi being gunned down by Clone Troopers... even though we know they were basically a caught off guard AND we know something similar stuff has happened in Dragon Ball itself:
- Goku getting hurt by a rock in SSJ. 💀
- Goku getting taken out by a little ring laser while in SSJB. 💀
Look, I'm a Dragon Ball fan and clearly Lonk is too lol. But I don't think enough people are aware of material for Star Wars outside of the movies... I understand their definitely the most mainstream thing about Star Wars... but come on... Ki and the Force are honestly very similar power systems in general, stuff like Ki control and Force augmentation are able to allow the users to increase and decrease their stats overall.
Who is the strongest
Anime Z Goku or Manga Z Goku
Currently manga .
Anime Z Goku
Anime Z Goku Beats Manga Z Goku easy Anime Goku scales to Anime Kid Buu who is the strongest buu (specifically anime) who puts Goku over Buuhan unlike Manga Z Goku
Disagree with planetary jedi. If so, why didn't Vader just blow up the rebel base in... well, ESB or ANH. And I know it's not legends but Yoda struggling to move a mountain with the force is one of his better feats. Overall I think Saiyans destroy, and a more fair fight would be every jedi vs. 23rd budokai goku.
AP=/=DC
@@percivalknightoftheflames855 The force is one of those things where I’d look at it’s DC > it’s supposed AP, at least for me.
@@Chckster No because Dooku actually used all the Darkness In the Universe on the IH yet isn't destroying the Universe
The precong work so well they didn't see the clones betraying them. If it didn't see that, its honestly a huge anit feat. How did it not see that but will see the sayins invading? Makes no sense lol
Pretty sure it's established in both the movies and the Clone Wars that the Dark Side was clouding the Jedis' visions...
The frieza force only having a max of 100k members seems so oddly small. Frieza has a space empire comquering and selling planets across the galaxy, but somehow he doesnt even have 10% the workforce of amazon 😂 Amazon even has close to 300k delivery drivers, and the US government has a few million people each in both combat and non combat roles. Hell, even the california nation guard has like 20-30k members, and theres no way that the military force of a galactic empire or the fighting power of an entire warrior race is smaller than that of a single US state 💀💀💀
Genuinely curious, has there ever been actually shown a Jedi or sith blow a planet up because I feel like just because they state something does not mean it’s true just like countless dragon ball villains calling themselves invincible but ending up getting incinerated. Jedi I understand holding back I guess because they are good but if that’s true why don’t the siths just don’t and destroy the Jedi immediately, they don’t need clone troopers to fight a war if you can destroy solar systems and move massively faster than light. This whole scaling of Star Wars feels like a massive fallacy
Or like how kid Goku destroyed a manga panel so does that mean kid Goku solos all of Star Wars and most of fiction?
Technically King Vegeta scales millions of times stronger than kid Goku are they beyond all fiction now 😂?
Good vid man, but palpatine or anyone who scales to him within Legends is at least 4D - 5D
Turles, king Vegeta , bardock and nappa alone are capable of wiping out jedi. Their would probably be casualties on both sides but the Saiyans would still pull through. Saiyans will.
Can you do Avatar Aang vs Deku
If one galick gun can destroy a planet can’t the Jedi send one space pod and destroy the planet
The thing is, saiyans would just swarm the planet, and when it's even fight they would transform all of them into great apes, and yes even though top fighters would still no diff them, all other jedis would be dead by that point. So if they don't have to fight till the last one standing, saiyans wins, and even if they do, the only surviving jedies would be those 3.
There is also very likely scenario that the planet they are fighting on would just be destroyed during the fight, and then it depends on who is invading, wins.
I love how if we also use the best fighters from the Saiyan side, even from a long time ago, it would be an extreme step on the other side
You realize Force wave makes the Jedi stronger right? If the Saiyans do that the Jrdi use Force Wave and amp themselves off of the Saiyans power , weakening them and defeating them
You should do a vid with sayian saga sayians against the Jedi
I don’t think using the content of the legend was a good idea, the majority of these stories are made without paying attention to the rest and often created many inconsistencies with other comics of the legend or with the movies themselves
I dont think that theres ever been an indication that jedi, are capable of destroying planet.
Personally every single statement saying that something that can destroy a planet is nothing compared to the force is hard jedi cope.
Luke skywalker in empire strikes back, could not physically lift his x-wing out of the mud. While hes obviously weaker then Darth Vader, there wasnt much to indicate that there was some sort of infinitely greater physical difference in power.
Darth Nihlus, is specifically labeled an outlier in his verse with life draining a planet. I interpret the force is greater than a device that can destroy a planet, is not as in direct power, but rather those with the force gain access to abilities that allow them to commit heroic feats. Such as causing ion torpedos to go down an air vent.
So the Jedi dont scale, to planetary levels of AP (Thatd make no sense given that Jedi can die by being shot by a gun. Or hit with a blaster bolt) Starwars powerscaling is hilariously dishonest, because were saying that Han Solo has light speed reaction time, a guy who would for all intent and purposes couldnt dodge a bullet.
Please pay attention to the video,
He said "legends" not canon.
I think its an assumption that the force would just bypass ki, as well as the force requires a lot of concentration, which is why in combat it is almost always limited to pushes, pulls, physical enhancement.
2nd, the "force" is described as a phyical force that is everywhere and is even countered by other force users, so what happens if a ki blast is mid flight and someone force pushes? Which one wins? I think you are downplaying if ki would be able to match the force in many defensive regards as the force does to itself. Frieza who could telekinetically make people explode "somehow" could only do it to people far weaker than him, why wouldnt the same apply to the force, with ki effectively making the saiyans immune to push and pull unless it overpowered them?
3rd, I think we are discounting that saiyans have technology that makes it extremely easy for them to avoid, or target those higher power individuals very easily called scouters. As soon as they touched down they would analyze the threat the same way Vegeta and Nappa did, and as soon as an Anakin, Yoda, or Mace are revealed (probably before the attack) they would probably launch a volley or one really powerful attack that even if only moon level the Jedi couldn't outrun, out durability since they die by much weaker attacks. Mace Windu was killed with lightning and a fall. There is nothing stopping the saiyans from just flying to lower orbit and glassing the temple, unless you believe the force is overwhelmingly stronger than ki despite it never being shown to have that power without significant setup or plot derived situations.
Keep in mind he's using the non-canon star wars legends. If he used canon star wars the jedi would have gotten stomped.
@@ROBSULLfr
@@ROBSULLcanon Star Wars can still be scaled to star lvl+
@@DrUmar-gu4kptell us the calc
@@Kodeuk Sidious being beyond the power of the final order with each star destroyer having Death Star level lazers. In the marvel Vader comics (2020) we see that palpatine is able to have full control and withstand the force of the massive bundle of kyber crystals that would go on to power the final order. Seeing as the final order had a total of 1000 star destroyers palpatines ap would equal that of 1000 death stars
i feel like the “ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the force” quote is definitely a metaphor 😭. Like why would the most powerful force users in the galaxy spend their resource on 3 planet destroying space tings. And furthermore with hundreds of named force users why are no examples of someone using the force to destroy a planet? Why did Jedi not use the force to destroy separatist cruisers which are much smaller than planets. And how do non force users like general grievous, jango fett and savage oppress (at the time ) kill jedi MASTERS. It just don’t make sense for jedi to be planet level. I got a sibamen over half the jedi council 👎
You didn’t bring up the saiyans can go 10x stronger and can create fake moons at any time. Plus nappa and the other elite saiyans have ki barriers making light sabers useless.
*Only* the elite know how to create Artificial Moons. Aka, *just* Vegeta and King Vegeta. Nappa is a solid maybe. Anyone else? Nope, not even Bardock
@@socialaccount0000 true but shouldn’t ozaru vegeta and king vegeta be able to solo. Ki armor is op against a light saber too.
@@mattmcwhirt4146 Ozaru vegeta's only advantage is brute force. Jedi also use force barrier's and use the force to amp themselves. If a Jedi's connection to the force matches the amount of chi a Saiyan has access too its an even fight. Chi and the fire are very similar.
@@crimsonking4151 ki blasts and light sabers would not be all that effective for the top tiers they have ways of negating them but ozaru vegetas ap and speed would be too great for the top tier Jedis. Legends Star Wars is crazy I think there is a statement about sidiouss power being universal.
5:35 he does tho
i’m tryna see his strong a saiyan jedi could get
The average Saiyan (scaling to Raditz at above Moon but below planet level…so between Moon level + and Small Planet level…is stronger than the average Jedi. But the strongest Jedi stomp the strongest regular Saiyans. Vegeta at 18,000 is their peak. In the manga he’s planet level and in the anime he’s Large Planet to Dwarf Star based on King Vegeta’s feat
Padawan and Jedi Knights can scale all over the place, but Jedi Masters and Council Members have solid planet level feats and scaling. Stronger council members can scale ridiculously higher. Up to Star level in Disney Canon and anywhere from Solar System to Universal+ in legends depending on if we use the Clone Wars Jedi order or Luke’s Jedi order
Speed wise, the Saiyans get to the Rel/Rel + ranges and Jedi get to FTL+ in Disney’s MFTL in legends. With the speed difference even the weaker Jedi could put hax the Saiyans though they usually won’t go for as lethal force hax as Sith so the Saiyans at the lower level still have a chance
I like how bro didnt enclud broly cause that will be just overkill💀
In straight blasting every thing Jedi can defend against that...
lightsaber wins all day everyday.
All this for one of the saiyans to rage quit and nuke the planet and escape.
All that for the blast to get Force pushed back at himself
@@percivalknightoftheflames855If you're stronger in Dragonball then your hax won't help you
@notacat284 Too bad their not stronger the Force is above all Mathematical Structures and the PT Jedi scale above the S3 Celestials who Embody the Force
@@percivalknightoftheflames855 No
@@Nota6693that’s not true for all hax and the average Jedi is stronger then the average saiyan.
Sorry but I disagree. The Jedi are strong and they do have tons of HAX, but the Saiyans are far more durable and they come back stronger after being critically injured. And with their mastery of Ki, they can simply try to blow up whatever planet the Jedi are on.
The saiyans are fodder
@@crimsonking4151 then jedi are far beyond fodder
People are hurt about the scaling because its Legends stuff. If this was sith... Vadar would just force chocke the elites from another galaxy. Outside of that, Force Ghost! Jedi would die, noe one would need to wish them back, yet they would stand right next to the sayian and destroy them. Only sayian that could survive at that time is baby Broly lol. Jedi wouls take him in and call him the "chosen one."
There are immortal characters in db, and Zeno could also just erase all of sw
@@deadpool4551pay attention to the video,
It's saiyans vs jedi .
@@Kira22558 bro, i know my Star Wars and George Lucas himself even ranked the power levels of sw characters from 1-10 making their power levels WAY weaker than dragon ball ones! Even baby z broly solos
I like the Sayians but Im more of a Starwars fan....Legends Luke, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Quigon, and Yoda all would give regular sayians problems because jedi mind control
Bardock stated to have a power level of 10k could destroy a planet bc in one of the data books it states that you need 10k power level to destroy a planet so king vegeta would at least have a power level of 30k bc he legit destroyed 3 planets with the flick of his hand also the Saiyans have there zenkai boosts also super Saiyan so if there pushed over the line they get a 50x that’s pretty big
People saying that the Jedi don’t have feats akin to the saiyans haven’t read any legends material. Luke at his peak collapsed a black hole. Starkiller brought down an imperial starship.
If your analysis were correct, palpatine would not need a death star in the first place. But as the movies stated He needed a weapon to destroy planets because he couldn't destroy planets by himself. If he could, there would be no point in a death star. The jedis were wiped out by normal dudes using guns. And here you are stating that 1000 warriors that can throw nukes in a city with 2 fingers would lose. Im starting to think you just did this because you know its gonna get you comments, and if thats the way you are going to do videos ill probably lose interest in your channel
The Death Star Is Just A Drip Style Entertainment For Palpatine Basically.
😅
Now... what about them VS. The Sith?
General Grievous was a blender of Jedi and I just don't see how a faction who's beginners and intermediates were getting clowned on by one single cyborg could deal with even 1 Great Ape Squad without Yoda, Anakin, or Sidious. Without all the extremely weird Legends scaling and feats that barely translate to a interstellar war the Jedi are cooked because how do any of them stop King Vegeta handwaving Coruscant from orbit? It doesn't even need to be King Vegeta really, it could be anyone around Nappa's strength with how casual King Vegeta did it.
And the Infant of Shaa feat makes zero sense. Zam Wessel compares what Poof does to disarming a bomb. Poof doesn't make a forcefield to contain an explosion that the Infant gives off. Jedi aren't anywhere close to planetary.
People forget goku is basically a jedi he has telekinesis, mind reading abilities, and is about to use his power to move objects like "the force" and then goku is also a God...
Super is just a different continuity, like in broly we see multiple elites
James 1:21
21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you
I think It's not impossible for a master jedi to defeat a strong saiyan. Force and Ki are the same thing, what changes is the way it is used. In Dragon Ball they rely on internal energy, while in SW they use external energy. In Star Wars instead of training their body to increase their on Ki they train to gather the one emitted by the living beings around them, the Ki of the universe itself. At first glance this approach may look less efficient than the one used in DB, but it has its advantages.
Wow no talk about if Ki Blast is plasma or not, which will decide how effective a lightsaber would be
Ki is really rare, it would be best to say that it is pure energy
Cyber Crystalls In Star Wars In Canon Were Stated To Be Equal To The Neutron Stars So Lightsabers are op untill Disney nerfed them...
And Thats Why The Cyber Crystalls are rare in the galaxy and expensive + Chanells the force.
Vader strikes impact with the force is above planetary with a lightsaber
@@ДмитрийРубежов-э1б And what exactly do you mean by equal to a neutron star?
@@yeikelamores6085 An Enrergy what the cyber cryatall produses
Satins fly and blow up the planet easy
"Jedi are on solar system level with two young jedi fighting supposedly being enough to destroy an entire planet" and yet they are regularly defeated by falling relatively short distances, are outmatched by a few people with guns, are slower than most vehicles in their own canon, cannot take any serious damage at all without dying practically instantly (until Disney decided that a lightsaber to the chest is extremely non-lethal), are constantly being outsmarted by an old guy, and are pushed to the point of practical extinction by...more guys with guns.
Yeah no, they are not anywhere near as powerful as the fan stories like to try to make them out to be, especially compared to Saiyans who are on average able to destroy moons and planets with ease in an instant, meanwhile the most powerful force user in their canon needs a giant moon base that took years to build to be able to slowly take out one planet at a time and is constantly being defeated by his own inept, untrained son.
Demonstrated feats in the actual canon are the only ones that truly matter.
the star wars EU isn't canon why use it only the movies and stuff disney has made.
i get not liking disney killed the old EU but you have to accept it's no longer canon.
Exact
We don't even need the EU for Fodder Ball
Legends is canon for SW fans who don't accept Disney SWs which is 99.9% of all SW fans. So yes Legends absolutely counts.
Can Bardock generate a Ki blade like Goku Black?
Man ive been watching your videos for a moment now … insanely close ? Wth you mean hahaha your clearly out of your mind and you’ve been having this analysis for a while … man have some courage… dbz characters are above everyone and everything you could ever bring on the table … insanity of videos you have…
Damn the amount of people trying to argue about saiyan's side.
Jedi don’t actually have FTL feats or reflexes. “Jedi reflexes” are precognition. They’re “reacting” before the event happens, so not actually reacting. It’s anticipating. If they reacted faster than blaster bolts we’d not be able to see them move instead of the casual flicks they do to redirect them.
You are absolutely wrong, do more research
@@lilomega7390to quote Master Quigon- “He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It is a Jedi trait.” They can move faster than the eye can follow but that’s a far cry from light speed.
You can see them move bc they show it to us in a way so that we can enjoy the action.
Ginyu Force video when?
Whoa cap none of the jeti are fast lmaoo they use the death star to blow up a planet wtf
Like i said unless a b1 battle droid is island level this is just wrong, also the strongest feat we know is a force storm which is a wormhole and the strongest thing that do was destroy a fleet. Also jedis are extremely fragile, use to much force and they die and a blaster is gonna kill them easily, just for reference a blaster is not a plasma gun but a photon gu. Meaning it fires light, this can be stopped with plastoid armor which is just plastic. So yeah thats how durable jedis are
If the Saiyans are fighting stupid then maybe the Jedi can win but if they’re fighting smart they’ll just blitz 99% of the Jedi and jump the rest or get king vegeta to blow up all the planets with the republic on them with the snap of his fingers.
The scaling chain is a bit off here. While there is a legitimate argument to be made that Palpatine is the strongest Sith in history, that only truly applies at the peak of his power. RotS Palpatine is considerably weaker than Dark Empire Palpatine, and would almost certainly have lost to the likes of Vitiate, peak Revan, and possibly Exar Kun as well had he fought them at the time. We do actually have lore from the old EU regarding how the ancient Sith compare to him. And the answer is quite well. As his visit to Korriban after the Battle of Yavin resulted in his near DEATH after he pissed off the mummified Sith Lords and demanded their knowledge.
So no, we can't scale the top Jedi of the Clone Wars above the ancient powerhouses. Especially not when the Jedi Academy Trilogy actually had Luke come into conflict with the spirit of Exar Kun and LOSE. We're talking about a Luke from 11 ABY, who accolades and statements all strongly point to being above Yoda, Mace, and Anakin. As he gave he a much better fight to a Reborn Palpatine at peak power than Yoda did to a considerably weaker Palpatine.
Both statements I used about Palpatine being the strongest force user ever at the time, or at least the strongest sith, come from before Dark Empire
@@lonkstakes Any statements made that early are already shaky as hell, because it means they came out before there was any kind of developed backstory for the Sith. With characters like Vitiate, who is widely regarded in Star Wars vs debating circles as a serious potential rival to Reborn Palpatine, not having even been conceived of yet.
But even if we do treat those statements as the gospel truth...it doesn't really negate my point. The Prequel Trilogy did not exist at that point in time, and thus those statements were only relevant to Palpatine much later in his life. Not to the Palpatine of the Clone Wars, who would later go on to attain even more power than he already had. The way you've described Mace and Yoda battling him doesn't take into account that they never fought him at his true peak.
You can actually get the Jedi higher since Dooku is stated to absorb energy throughout the entire universe, and the top tier Jedi scale to/above him.
Said Universe is Transfinite/Archetypal in Nature as well lol
Yareal poof contained a solar system level bomb, 0pp rancicisis amped armies in an entire solar system, shaakti turned a planet into light side nexus by just her presence, Yoda telepathically sensed and felt the death of every jedi that died on a galaxy scale etc. The Sith like Sidious shook planets, stars and formed constellations with his aura and darkened the diminished the abilities of the jedi to use the force on a galaxy wide scale mind you this isnt even peak Sidious. So yes the jedi and Sith would win this by a landslide
Um Saiyan's hands down. If normal people even if they are warriors like Mandalorian's can defeat Jedi then Saiyan's could do it easily
Even Vegeta alone from saiyan saga can fight Obi -wan , Darth Vader , Palpatine and Yoda at the same time and win with very small effort.
....pretty sure the saiyans would blast their ships out of space before they even had time to land
I will say destroying a planet in DB is not the same as in real world as they have planets with 10x more gravity than Earth. Also for the planet level scaling and premonition only to get genocided by clone troopers.
Saiyans win. Jedis have never shown anything that is even remotely comparable to saiyans.
You clearly haven't watched the video
Raditz kills every jedi, sith and force user by himself. Hell end of Dragonball kills the star wars verse easily.
wank wank wank
Random Jedi would just mind screw with a Saiyan pal , the masters of the Order are planetary, much less the guys with actual frickin names.
@@user-lp8im7ow8s if they could catch one
May not be enough.
Bro how do ppl not know saiyans invade a planet and if they can’t they destroy it or go great ape and destroy it casually and it’s not the combined power one saiyans is enough to destroy a planet
Old dude was definitely not solar system level 😂
The King Vegeta destroying three planet's feat is Anime exclusive. didnt happen in the source material (manga). so some ppl might not consider it a real factor in how powerful king vegeta is
The manga isn't the end all be all in dragon ball toriyama has even stated this, he even included bardock from the original special in the manga via a flashback from Frieza on namek so imo specials and anime exclusive can be considered canon so long as it doesn't effect the story to the point of derailing or contradiction ie: anime exclusive info about Saiyans which doesn't contradict canon story can be seen as canon
Master Roshi in dragon ball was able to blow up the moon
It’s more fun to use the anime, and he manga is just the anime but worse featwise.
I want to know if broly makes a difference, which he probably definitely does
He probably would but he is still just a crying baby.
@mynamewastakin broly is older than vegeta and vegeta was taken in consideration for this fight 🤷♂️
I watched every movie
(Secuels included) plus comics and animated series
The Star Wars verse has a good cosmology with the force being probably just too op for dragon ball
But the strongest Jedi/sith is planetary
Nothing they can do if they decided to just blow the planet up. We saw how much hype the death star had. Now imagine that sayins can just do it casually.
Plus, they got wreck by a bunch of clones lol
Yup king Vegeta destroy 3 plants with one one, now image that in star wars that's like 3 death stars.
When using hax in dragon ball things become questionable, master roshi who is literally a martial arts master told both krillin and goku that strength and power matters most not skill and hax in dragon ball are broken such as being able to freeze time by holding your breath to turn someone into a carrot with a touch, and all of those hax can simply be rendered usless if the target is stronger than the user, thats just the nature of ki, plus saiyans grow stronger during battle and if they survive a near death experience not by their own hands, and these boost in power are no joke vegeta went from being the rival to fodder of the freiza army to being comparable to one of freiza generals, if the jedi high tiers doesn't go for the kill the saiyans will win. Outside of that this could go either way but i see the jedi having the edge to a certain extent