wow this is a really phenomenal scene. I just cant stop watching this. everything is perfect: the acting, directing, the music that starts playing 09:24. just beautiful.....
I loved that they came to a sort of a co existence with each other but I’m glad it never became romantic between RH Todd and Marty. Roger and Susan had to fight tooth and nail to not make their characters romantically involved because they felt the initial gang rape storyline was too brutal for them to ever be a couple. They had amazing chemistry together and I loved watching them in scenes but I watched a couple vids of Marty with Victor Lord Jr and literally felt sick to my stomach.
my thoughts exactly. there are so many storylines in soaps involving rapists and their victims and roger and susan had the integrity to just let their characters' relationship naturally evolve into something that's hard to put into words but also not cheap or gross like another show would have done. the "re-rape" storyline was nauseating and inexcusable on the part of the writers.
@@rosannaburt3048which was sick. Laura was screaming no no luke no as he drags her to the floor of a dirty disco. Next scene tattered clothes & Laura runs out to the woods screaming as the song rose played in a demonic remix i wasnt born but how fans were cool w/ that & rooted for them is hard to believe. Luke was supposed to die but soaps are shot 3 weeks ahead so fans loved them when the rape was filmed. Poor genie became a drug addict as Tony got the emmy the accolades liz Taylor dated him while some jerk at gh said if " Laura was killed off n9body wouod care b/c tonys the star. She said she packed her stuff & asked the writers to get her off the show hence the cassadines kidnapping her. Rh similar to genie only he had much darker material as the rapist punished actually went to prison unlike Luke had a full on nervous breakdown. He told Steve buton on his podcast & steve admitted he had a walking breakdown too. He was at a stop light & he pysically pushed himself to drive home & just sat in a chair for 3 days. Rh told him he got it & was so sorry. Rh also said he only signed on to 13 week contracts w/ oltl having the rights to " own him" once he won the emmy he thought he only signed a year but didn't have a lawyer so it was a 3 year contract in 94 & if he left they'd sue him & keep him from signing any contract for tv movies soaps etc this his return in 96 where he stayed til 98 & thos time ge left robin strasser said they offered him tons of cash but he was out as again they gave him.dark material. His return in 2000 to 2003 he was promised long vacations that only erika slezak got & he could do other things & was no fool he left in 03 when crazy rape fetish micheal malome ( head writer of the gang rape who never saw rhs talent he pushed people from " no Carolina " like him like suede & luna both bombed. Suede was always too old & creepy for marty & luna becane a self righteous twit. Malone also obsessed on ripping off movies & literature like gone w/ the wind that's why he recast amerasian blair w/ southern blonde green eyed kdp max was supposed to be Rhett luna melanie cord Ashley. It bombed to. So Susan & rh were the couple this dope should have focused on pre rape & after roger & Josh griffith redeemed todd to the point of serious regret & agony then he wanted his Luke & Laura but thank god the young actors threatened to quit as Susan said she'd only do other of marty had amnesia or was brain damaged from lupus & booze rh stuck to his threat & left & payed the price. Thats why the show quickly put tnb back together for rhs departure they had only a few blissful.weeks that lasted in fans hearts til the end. Sadly they never knrw what to do w/ Susan once todd was removed & she regretted being only relevant if shoved into a todd story i.e blair & payricks pregnancy. I'm glad podd todd slept w/ marty & she made sure she had amnesia. Also rh was thinking of staying on for another 3 years in 03 to 06 but that creepy malome returned & punished todd by making him lose his family & go out like a liser at mitch hands. Ugh.
i really like todd and marty's relationship as it's portrayed here. they would never be friends, of course, but they seem to have and almost respectful understanding of each other. soaps are littered with pairings that involve rapists and their victims and i'm so beyond glad that they never went there with todd and marty. i think roger howarth good right to step away when he did and that susan haskell definitely deserved better in terms of how marty's story ended. there's a lot of layers and depth like these that would have been undermined by any kind of romantic relationship between them and it would have sent the wrong message to the audience. i think, even though todd abused blair, the relationship worked because they were never about fixing each other the way that people wanted marty or rebecca to "fix" todd. they were horrible for each other but entertaining to watch in a way that the show acknowledged. they didn't romanticize the abuse.
@CarlD2 His last scenes are less than 2 months after this, so he had already decided to leave by this point. I think these were supposed to be "resolution" scenes in case RH never came back to the show, but they still reflect the apparent desire of TPTB to manufacture a Todd/Marty romance. I like the resolution part, but the rest was just icky.
I prefer them as some what rivals. Todd respects her more than anyone second only to his sister Viki. Marty hates Todd always will, and yet can't help but feel connected to him in a twisted way as he's a lot like her. I hope someday Todd and Marty will reunite onscreen.
The 'ick' factor, for me, comes from the fact that the character of Todd has never actually been "redeemed". Todd has remained a destructive force, to himself and others, for 20 years. He has done "good deeds" now and then, but for the most part the character continues to do bad things over and over. That is not redemption. Why would the woman he raped so violently even consider a relationship with that kind of man? In the end, that is the core of the characters and the story of these two people
Someday when OLTL returns, Todd needs to be changed completely ending this cycle of redemption and havoc. I hope to see him in a villainous role and yet in a loveable way like Days' Stefano DiMera or GL's Alan Spaulding.
Marty just described the friendships people with borderline personality have n do with their love ones it's a push n pull disorder fear of abandonment sense of self
This is what I wished they dod with todd . Marty comes to the frat party and almost gets gang raped by some extras and todd manning saves her leading to Rh todd and sh marty having a relationship ship bc sh never sizzles ever with any other male lead like she did with rh.
James Malik I stopped watching OLTL Permanently in 2003 when Roger Howarth left and that other guy was recasted as Todd with plastic surgery. What happened years later with Powell and Zack coming back?? I’ve heard of John McBain etc but I lost track after that.
@@BionicWoman1975 In 2009, John killed Powell and Zach when they returned for revenge and he saved the Mannings and Marty from them. Roger is the one true Todd, I was beyond relieved when he returned my only regret is the show stopped and we couldn't divulge more into what happened to Todd during the 8 years he was imprisoned because I somehow doubt he was always in lock up. Something must have happened, what if he and Carl Peterson (Perkin's older brother and probably Irene's real boss) met during that time and they decided to work together in reshaping Llanview. Irene wasn't a part of this plan as Carl always planned on removing her, as for Jr. he kept him alive to torment him for what he did to his other sister Dr. Leah Joplin, whom in 2008, he pushed her to the point that she committed suicide. In the end, Jr. will die for good as he always has been nothing more than a good for nothing loser turned into a freakish miserable excuse for a copy of his superior brother.
James Malik Wow...I don’t even have a clue who Carl, Perkins, and Dr. Leah Joplin are since I hadn’t watched since 2003. I wish they sold episodes or we could stream all old soap episodes online or something. I guess I will just have to continue piecing together episodes via TH-cam, because today’s generation isn’t into Soap Operas. They prefer shitty reality shows which aren’t really Reality to begin with.
The electrifying chemistry that Roger Howorth and Susan Haskell had with each other, belied the darker part of the story. We get that in reality a rapist is never sweet and kind, never, but this is make believe , written probably by baby boomers with their fantasy of an evil person repenting . But It was a well written , uh, love/ hate story, for what would be in reality at best, awkward and weird . In real life , the unspeakable would be punished alot harder and the monster would be unrepentant and crucified , completely . Every time you hear the actor say the r word, you gotta cringe, it's really cringe worthy , but it doesn't match what's seen onscreen . They looked like they were in love with each other, instead of in trauma. It would of been weird for the characters to uh, make love in this scene , but not wrong , as the actors and the characters were adults and this was fiction . Towards the end he's being so soft and caring, the Todd character looked like he had some sort of love for Marty at first and said as much in the scene and he was trying to redeem himself . Their being really weird with each other ,considering how disturbingly they started . They had a chemistry together, that was among the best ever seen on screen , so why shouldn't they of gotten together on the show, worse was seen and written with the Franco/Carly characters on the actors show General Hospital and with much less chemistry. Though unrealistic, In a romantic scene especially, which this bordered on ,they would of been insanely beautiful together, artistically, it would have been crazy good, a golden opportunity for the actors and the show was missed, but whatever .
Audra Alvarez I didn't see it, but a rapemance sounds gross and I understand it wasn't the original actors ? Were the actors and the storyline good ? , That's the difference , as with the original Luke and Laura storyline, the idea of a rapist /victim getting together is very bad and in real life, wouldn't be condoned, but the beginning of that story,with the actors and their chemistry, was good . Likewise during this period above, OLTL was often churning out Masterpiece Theatre, even with this Marty/Todd storyline, the writing to the music and almost to an actor, everything and everyone was great, casting was On Point, with ,unlike today's GH,good acting,being a requirement. I love it when 2 actors have chemistry, even for sortof romances, otherwise, no matter how sexually graphic they get with a romantic scene, it's boring. The writers meant it for Todd to fall in love with Marty, then they wrote the unspeakable into a scene,making even the above ,extremely unrealistic, I think it was the baby boomers that wrote its fantasy, of the repentive heavy. Theirs just no such thing as a sweet and tender rapist, as this character often came off as. It's weird because he's being kindof romantic with her here, he keeps asking her " Do you remember the night we made love " ,very weird, but very good. He, they ,often looked like they were in love with each other, instead of in hate. The writers kindof spoiled it , because the chemistry, was bigger than the story.
Barbara Bach, you keep stating that rapists are never sweet or kind, but I want to take the time to point out that rapists in real-life are not one-dimensional. Neither was Todd. Many women have been raped by their boyfriends, husbands, or acquaintances, who were indeed sweet and/or kind, either before or after the rape. Or both. Also keep in mind that Todd was never fully redeemed; he remained a bad guy.
+Sizeet both excellent points Sizeet and Barbara. I can imagine how incredible a storyline could have been if the writers took both your points into consideration. A romantic pairing with Todd would mean bad news for Marty. Todd never did become a good guy and he did seem obsessed with Marty. So if that creepiness was allowed to play out, where he was able to use his money and resources to some how isolate Marty and keep her only with him. To watch Howarth go back and forth between being soft spoken and lovestruck to the angry, snarling monster while Haskell balances a Marty that wants to fight her way out with the Marty who knows she has to play along in order to outsmart him all the while she's terrified but can't show it. I think that would have been cool to watch.
tnb definitely I was back and forth . I loved their friendship but blair lying to Todd when he finally for the first time trusted a person since his mom made me so sad and blair was right i think if Todd was healthier he and Marty would have made a great couple. Susan haskell always came to her best in svenes with Todd her other male partners were a snooze. this scene was where Todd and Marty and the audience realized how good Marty and Todd coukd have been if he stayed the night. it could never be bc after he fang raped her it was over . but without the rape Todd never would have been . he would have stayed frat boy number 1
@@nataliestack9330 Todd was supposed to stay frat boy #1 after the rape (he was created for the sole purpose of that story). It was Howarth's great acting that made Todd Manning a household name.
wow this is a really phenomenal scene. I just cant stop watching this. everything is perfect: the acting, directing, the music that starts playing 09:24. just beautiful.....
I agreed
This was so sad and so cool because todd and marty are now friends
I loved that they came to a sort of a co existence with each other but I’m glad it never became romantic between RH Todd and Marty. Roger and Susan had to fight tooth and nail to not make their characters romantically involved because they felt the initial gang rape storyline was too brutal for them to ever be a couple. They had amazing chemistry together and I loved watching them in scenes but I watched a couple vids of Marty with Victor Lord Jr and literally felt sick to my stomach.
Another reason why I was blessed to see Jr. get killed or sentenced to purgatory under Perkin's watch.
my thoughts exactly. there are so many storylines in soaps involving rapists and their victims and roger and susan had the integrity to just let their characters' relationship naturally evolve into something that's hard to put into words but also not cheap or gross like another show would have done. the "re-rape" storyline was nauseating and inexcusable on the part of the writers.
Like Luke and Laura did they were fan favorites
@@rosannaburt3048which was sick. Laura was screaming no no luke no as he drags her to the floor of a dirty disco. Next scene tattered clothes & Laura runs out to the woods screaming as the song rose played in a demonic remix i wasnt born but how fans were cool w/ that & rooted for them is hard to believe. Luke was supposed to die but soaps are shot 3 weeks ahead so fans loved them when the rape was filmed. Poor genie became a drug addict as Tony got the emmy the accolades liz Taylor dated him while some jerk at gh said if " Laura was killed off n9body wouod care b/c tonys the star. She said she packed her stuff & asked the writers to get her off the show hence the cassadines kidnapping her. Rh similar to genie only he had much darker material as the rapist punished actually went to prison unlike Luke had a full on nervous breakdown. He told Steve buton on his podcast & steve admitted he had a walking breakdown too. He was at a stop light & he pysically pushed himself to drive home & just sat in a chair for 3 days. Rh told him he got it & was so sorry. Rh also said he only signed on to 13 week contracts w/ oltl having the rights to " own him" once he won the emmy he thought he only signed a year but didn't have a lawyer so it was a 3 year contract in 94 & if he left they'd sue him & keep him from signing any contract for tv movies soaps etc this his return in 96 where he stayed til 98 & thos time ge left robin strasser said they offered him tons of cash but he was out as again they gave him.dark material. His return in 2000 to 2003 he was promised long vacations that only erika slezak got & he could do other things & was no fool he left in 03 when crazy rape fetish micheal malome ( head writer of the gang rape who never saw rhs talent he pushed people from " no Carolina " like him like suede & luna both bombed. Suede was always too old & creepy for marty & luna becane a self righteous twit. Malone also obsessed on ripping off movies & literature like gone w/ the wind that's why he recast amerasian blair w/ southern blonde green eyed kdp max was supposed to be Rhett luna melanie cord Ashley. It bombed to. So Susan & rh were the couple this dope should have focused on pre rape & after roger & Josh griffith redeemed todd to the point of serious regret & agony then he wanted his Luke & Laura but thank god the young actors threatened to quit as Susan said she'd only do other of marty had amnesia or was brain damaged from lupus & booze rh stuck to his threat & left & payed the price. Thats why the show quickly put tnb back together for rhs departure they had only a few blissful.weeks that lasted in fans hearts til the end. Sadly they never knrw what to do w/ Susan once todd was removed & she regretted being only relevant if shoved into a todd story i.e blair & payricks pregnancy. I'm glad podd todd slept w/ marty & she made sure she had amnesia. Also rh was thinking of staying on for another 3 years in 03 to 06 but that creepy malome returned & punished todd by making him lose his family & go out like a liser at mitch hands. Ugh.
i really like todd and marty's relationship as it's portrayed here. they would never be friends, of course, but they seem to have and almost respectful understanding of each other. soaps are littered with pairings that involve rapists and their victims and i'm so beyond glad that they never went there with todd and marty. i think roger howarth good right to step away when he did and that susan haskell definitely deserved better in terms of how marty's story ended. there's a lot of layers and depth like these that would have been undermined by any kind of romantic relationship between them and it would have sent the wrong message to the audience. i think, even though todd abused blair, the relationship worked because they were never about fixing each other the way that people wanted marty or rebecca to "fix" todd. they were horrible for each other but entertaining to watch in a way that the show acknowledged. they didn't romanticize the abuse.
well this was amazing!.....Thanks Mac!!! keep'em coming! =)
Great scene.
I agreed with you
Wow.I never knew abt their first time together.
is this what prompts Marty to go to Ireland? Bizarre to think Todd of all people was what drove her to the Direction of Patrick Thornhart
Gotta say - Susan Haskell not being on TV is a travesty.
@CarlD2 His last scenes are less than 2 months after this, so he had already decided to leave by this point. I think these were supposed to be "resolution" scenes in case RH never came back to the show, but they still reflect the apparent desire of TPTB to manufacture a Todd/Marty romance. I like the resolution part, but the rest was just icky.
I prefer them as some what rivals. Todd respects her more than anyone second only to his sister Viki. Marty hates Todd always will, and yet can't help but feel connected to him in a twisted way as he's a lot like her. I hope someday Todd and Marty will reunite onscreen.
I think Todd will always be in love with Marty
+amyncy419 not love but admiration.
The 'ick' factor, for me, comes from the fact that the character of Todd has never actually been "redeemed". Todd has remained a destructive force, to himself and others, for 20 years. He has done "good deeds" now and then, but for the most part the character continues to do bad things over and over. That is not redemption. Why would the woman he raped so violently even consider a relationship with that kind of man? In the end, that is the core of the characters and the story of these two people
Someday when OLTL returns, Todd needs to be changed completely ending this cycle of redemption and havoc. I hope to see him in a villainous role and yet in a loveable way like Days' Stefano DiMera or GL's Alan Spaulding.
@macipoo Me too! I remember being really horrified at what this was obviously leading to.
dang , why couldn't we get our Todd/Marty love pairing
Refer to this
th-cam.com/video/P_n1EwMZ7WE/w-d-xo.html
I hope you're joking
Sick
😢 gross
Marty just described the friendships people with borderline personality have n do with their love ones it's a push n pull disorder fear of abandonment sense of self
@CarlD2 If you look close enough you can probably see the switch in his brain flip somewhere during this scene ;)
Until he returned.... and left again. And then he returned!.... And left again. -.-
@soapunk I wonder just how soon after this Rogert quit.
This is what I wished they dod with todd . Marty comes to the frat party and almost gets gang raped by some extras and todd manning saves her leading to Rh todd and sh marty having a relationship ship bc sh never sizzles ever with any other male lead like she did with rh.
What happened to Powell and zach
They're both dead in hell, thanks to John McBain
James Malik I stopped watching OLTL Permanently in 2003 when Roger Howarth left and that other guy was recasted as Todd with plastic surgery. What happened years later with Powell and Zack coming back?? I’ve heard of John McBain etc but I lost track after that.
@@BionicWoman1975 In 2009, John killed Powell and Zach when they returned for revenge and he saved the Mannings and Marty from them. Roger is the one true Todd, I was beyond relieved when he returned my only regret is the show stopped and we couldn't divulge more into what happened to Todd during the 8 years he was imprisoned because I somehow doubt he was always in lock up. Something must have happened, what if he and Carl Peterson (Perkin's older brother and probably Irene's real boss) met during that time and they decided to work together in reshaping Llanview. Irene wasn't a part of this plan as Carl always planned on removing her, as for Jr. he kept him alive to torment him for what he did to his other sister Dr. Leah Joplin, whom in 2008, he pushed her to the point that she committed suicide. In the end, Jr. will die for good as he always has been nothing more than a good for nothing loser turned into a freakish miserable excuse for a copy of his superior brother.
James Malik Wow...I don’t even have a clue who Carl, Perkins, and Dr. Leah Joplin are since I hadn’t watched since 2003. I wish they sold episodes or we could stream all old soap episodes online or something. I guess I will just have to continue piecing together episodes via TH-cam, because today’s generation isn’t into Soap Operas. They prefer shitty reality shows which aren’t really Reality to begin with.
@@BionicWoman1975 Soaps are still very wanting.
The electrifying chemistry that Roger Howorth and Susan Haskell had with each other, belied the darker part of the story. We get that in reality a rapist is never sweet and kind, never, but this is make believe , written probably by baby boomers with their fantasy of an evil person repenting . But It was a well written , uh, love/ hate story, for what would be in reality at best, awkward and weird . In real life , the unspeakable would be punished alot harder and the monster would be unrepentant and crucified , completely . Every time you hear the actor say the r word, you gotta cringe, it's really cringe worthy , but it doesn't match what's seen onscreen . They looked like they were in love with each other, instead of in trauma. It would of been weird for the characters to uh, make love in this scene , but not wrong , as the actors and the characters were adults and this was fiction . Towards the end he's being so soft and caring, the Todd character looked like he had some sort of love for Marty at first and said as much in the scene and he was trying to redeem himself . Their being really weird with each other ,considering how disturbingly they started . They had a chemistry together, that was among the best ever seen on screen , so why shouldn't they of gotten together on the show, worse was seen and written with the Franco/Carly characters on the actors show General Hospital and with much less chemistry. Though unrealistic, In a romantic scene especially, which this bordered on ,they would of been insanely beautiful together, artistically, it would have been crazy good, a golden opportunity for the actors and the show was missed, but whatever .
Very well put. Did you watch the "rapemance" years later? If so, what do you think of that?
Audra Alvarez I didn't see it, but a rapemance sounds gross and I understand it wasn't the original actors ? Were the actors and the storyline good ? , That's the difference , as with the original Luke and Laura storyline, the idea of a rapist /victim getting together is very bad and in real life, wouldn't be condoned, but the beginning of that story,with the actors and their chemistry, was good . Likewise during this period above, OLTL was often churning out Masterpiece Theatre, even with this Marty/Todd storyline, the writing to the music and almost to an actor, everything and everyone was great, casting was On Point, with ,unlike today's GH,good acting,being a requirement. I love it when 2 actors have chemistry, even for sortof romances, otherwise, no matter how sexually graphic they get with a romantic scene, it's boring. The writers meant it for Todd to fall in love with Marty, then they wrote the unspeakable into a scene,making even the above ,extremely unrealistic, I think it was the baby boomers that wrote its fantasy, of the repentive heavy. Theirs just no such thing as a sweet and tender rapist, as this character often came off as. It's weird because he's being kindof romantic with her here, he keeps asking her " Do you remember the night we made love " ,very weird, but very good. He, they ,often looked like they were in love with each other, instead of in hate. The writers kindof spoiled it , because the chemistry, was bigger than the story.
Barbara Bach, you keep stating that rapists are never sweet or kind, but I want to take the time to point out that rapists in real-life are not one-dimensional. Neither was Todd. Many women have been raped by their boyfriends, husbands, or acquaintances, who were indeed sweet and/or kind, either before or after the rape. Or both. Also keep in mind that Todd was never fully redeemed; he remained a bad guy.
+Sizeet both excellent points Sizeet and Barbara. I can imagine how incredible a storyline could have been if the writers took both your points into consideration. A romantic pairing with Todd would mean bad news for Marty. Todd never did become a good guy and he did seem obsessed with Marty. So if that creepiness was allowed to play out, where he was able to use his money and resources to some how isolate Marty and keep her only with him. To watch Howarth go back and forth between being soft spoken and lovestruck to the angry, snarling monster while Haskell balances a Marty that wants to fight her way out with the Marty who knows she has to play along in order to outsmart him all the while she's terrified but can't show it. I think that would have been cool to watch.
This is where I stopped watching OLTL. I also hated Todd & Blair as a couple. ( I know I am in the minority.)
nneka onianwah, the minority is wanting Todd and Marty to be together.
Me to
tnb definitely I was back and forth . I loved their friendship but blair lying to Todd when he finally for the first time trusted a person since his mom made me so sad and blair was right i think if Todd was healthier he and Marty would have made a great couple. Susan haskell always came to her best in svenes with Todd her other male partners were a snooze. this scene was where Todd and Marty and the audience realized how good Marty and Todd coukd have been if he stayed the night. it could never be bc after he fang raped her it was over . but without the rape Todd never would have been . he would have stayed frat boy number 1
@@nataliestack9330 Todd was supposed to stay frat boy #1 after the rape (he was created for the sole purpose of that story). It was Howarth's great acting that made Todd Manning a household name.
This scene is exactly when I started hating the Todd/Marty storyline and relationship.
Same here. I hated Todd after they redeemed him. Roger Howarth is a phenomenal actor, but Todd was just another soap opera character by this time.
he. wanted dead and buried? He?
Was marty a virgin before she was with todd?
So weird!!
Disgusting!