StarCraft 1: THE ULTIMATE CONTAIN - Ample vs YSC | CNSL 5
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- Ample (Terran) vs YSC (Protoss) - ro16 Group A - Decider Match, Game 3
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@34:34 dat unseen hero dt casually clearing the whole highground
wow great spot
Geeeeez even if it was not the most impactful play as the game was already over , still was a smart play to find the tank line without detection and to abuse it in a time like that crazy effiency but still didn’t matter
20:52 is the hero SCV we never knew we needed
Ample is fast becoming a favorite to watch, he's got a really solid playstyle. Hope to see him in major tournaments.
This was like watching a boa constrictor squeezing his prey.
Was about to say the same thing!
27:20 Im getting chills from these storms 🤣
Oh shit, we got a long one today. Where's the O face?! 😂
Great cast! The EMP on the archons was epic 💯💯
RT, don't worry about that replay vision bug. Blizzard will do that right after the 2v2 ladder!
I love watching these videos every morning
I recommend using a browser script to hide the timeline when loading up the video. Makes for more tension if you need to pause the video and would otherwise accidently see the remaining time is coming to a close
It still amazes me Artosis hasn't fixed this, it's pretty wretched
GG. Not the most exciting game with these sloooooooooow pushes from terrans. Nice to hear Artosis happy at least 😁
that is the kind of gameplay Artosis wishes he could pull off against p. But I think the close positions and building all gateways in the main base made this possible for ample to slow play this like he did.
I hear you but I like these slower styles. Too many years of me playing SC2 makes me appreciate the slower pace of BroodWar.
20:50 that hero scv killed a goon by himself!
I love these long, epic matches
I really liked the 1998 style push at the start.
This turtle move from ample is giving artosis pleasure... Turtletosis for a reason.
37:33 That's what you came for.
You welcome.
15:46 DANCE ALL DAY
38 minutes, gg for YSC's fighting spirit
38mins of amateur play. Just watched first 10 to recognize YSC is brainless
@@joarzinio the pro is here, and who else if not a protoss fanboy 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Lifetime fan , love your vids bro
So many shuttles & no real sustained worker harass. Goes for the quick & easy shuttles where 1 did a bit, but the others did nothing (i.e. would rather take the shuttles around for economic damage from the South over just over a bit of a water). Can't do that against high tier Terrans. Lost too many probes at the push, but kept it fairly stable throughout. Really unfortunate.
damn, an educational video on how to be an efficient terran B)
Wow, 1st time I seen Terran best protoss
Just realized watched this 3 times now .. ahh
The game for protoss could have been better if he knew a bit more theory on how to capitalize on Siege Tanks. The idea is that while Siege Tanks entrench in the center of the map, you hit multiple spots on the map - either drops to harass workers or even finding timing windows to expand the bottom of the map. This map is huge enough for that meta to work - and multiple activities across the map would be intended to spread thin the Siege Tanks. There was really a huge window midgame to expand the bottom - in fact several windows and openings for precisely that. I was waiting and waiting but the protoss expansions never came. The idea to just expand being to i) get Terran to waste momentum cleaning them up and spread them thin; ii) mine up the minerals there to be used later; iii) aim at somewhat diluting the concentration in the center. Better yet, with enough vision you could catch Siege Tanks unpacking and time your engagements then.
Not so efficient:
Archons. I've been commenting again and again they are bad for their cost. 300 gas for that piss poor dps and overall performance. If you have nothing else for the High Templars, leave them be. Don't merge. Now on to a point I've always wondered - why do Arbiters typically recall Dragoons? To kill off Factories. In theory, Archons or even Reavers might be faster for clearing buildings. Dragoons have very piss poor dps esp. taking very long to kill structures. While Archons are bad at fighting because by the time they close the distance, their effective health is really 150 shields and not 350.
Dark Templars. I didn't get what was the idea. Replace them all with Obs and it would have given Protoss a better position.
Fighting Siege Tanks. While not the wrong idea per se, the followup was wrong. I think here, Protoss was fighting Siege Tanks with the intention of releasing pressure. The problem was attrition - long term, these Siege Tanks win out. The correct followup was to create openings and space for doing other stuff. Force the Terran to replace their tanks, then use the windows to macro/expand, like what Zerg does. This idea is that Siege Tanks are too slow to react or counter a macro strat, so you trick Terran into dumping resources into tanks then do the macro thing. Then he has to spend some tanks addressing your expansions therefore his center wouldn't be as concentrated as we see in this very game.
Cool game!
Idk what I would do without you
Awesome game and great casting!
Definition of insanity
I misesed some good long game, even tho in this game Ample just played SimsCity for 40 minutes, I enjoyed it!
Epic game great watch.
Could ysc have broken with arbiters maybe?
Best game of the tournament so far
I dunno man, it was pretty frustrating watching YSC throw away his army time after time because he didn't have proper placement of units.
@@shawnl1155 he is noob
Ysc showed amazing skill in this tournament. So not making arbiters in this important match was idiotic, i cant understand how a progamer would even think you can win this without arbiters.
Well, shuttles + high templars is a strat that protoss's use. It's not like every game ends with carriers or arbiters.
@@abstractdaddy1384 i was talking about a late game when terran has 4 bases, 3 2 upgrades, and max army. Recall is the only way, and even then would be hard.
he is noobish obviously.
@@andrijavujevic7961 Sometimes carriers is the only way hahaha. Those fortress terran can put when playing slowly and patiently, can ruin even a good arbiter tactics. If the terran is responsive enough and attentive he can absolutely block any recall attempt. Sometimes as a protoss we can outmaneuver the terran with bait ilusions arbiters to make the vessel waste their emp. But even then, its really hard to break into, and it take a really long time to get all setup for this kind of bait.
Usually carriers are the answer to this type of terran. Maybe not massive "16+ carriers" but at least more than six to be able to harass the terran expansions put some counter pressure and have some kind of mobility. Actually in one game years ago i did manage to do a mix of a few carriers and arbiters with recall. Its like going 50/50 not full carrier switch, not full arbiter recall, just about enough to make the terran unconfortable with their "turtling" way of push. Its like a spoonful of its own medicine. This strat with a few carriers wont insta kill the terran, in fact is more the opposite. You have to slowly recover map control, harass the terran with lots of counters in diferent locations, then the idea is open with the carriers the oportunity to sneak maybe a shuttle, or in this case an arbiter. So you kill some turrets, kill some goliaths, kill the vessel so theres no emp for later, etc. Then once the path is a bit more safe and clear, draw the terran atenttion to another location and then do the recall. Its a lot more mothodic and you need to as much patient as the terran does to win that kind of game. We can call it, the game of patience. Thats why this build always ends in games more than 20 minits. The terran is not in a hurry to kill you, so you dont have to neihter.
In fact i didnt invented by any means this counter for turtle fortress terran, i saw it in old vods about 2008 or something. Back then almost all the terrans did this kind of anti arbiter strategy with lots of turrets and slowly moving forward with siege tanks. There is a counter for this ofcourse, 8 wraith's do the job. Thats why this is only usefull by surprise and probably only once. But its very effective, i go this strat any time i see a turtle terran and it give me a decent amount of win rate. This is starcraft so none strat or bo give 100% win rate. Some times as im doing this the terran discover my plan and go all in while im building the carriers, doind devastating damage. Other times they just know you have to go for carriers and prepare for it well enough with tons of goliaths in their mineral lines. Anyway i could write a book if i keep writing, so there is my onw modest suggest for protoss againts this type of strats. Not perfect but it gives a lot more versatility.
Ysc had something like 15 chances to break out and somehow managed to let ample go 13-0-2 on enagements in order to lose that game. Absolutely incredible lol, you can't make up how forgiving this matchup is.
Some of the worst psi storms I've seen in a professional game and yet he stayed in so long while dropping to a 50 supply deficit after each fight. I know amples tank placement was pretty good, but still, those storms were hard to watch.
Terran players are DELUSIONAL lol even when they win decisively they're still salty
@@grouchomcgrouch4150 Yup, meanwhile Protoss are the race with the least representation in almost every tournaments and they rarely make it deep its generally all Terrans and Zergs lately.
@@135791max storms sucked and how many times did he push with his zealots stuck behind dragoons :/
did he just say he is a good protoss player?
Geez, nothing ysc could do after that first botched attack. Even if he got arbitors, ample's tank spread woulda made for some crappy stasis'. He just kept bashing his head into the Terran wall..
not stasis my dude, recall was easy solution, and would work great here.
Waves v. Rocks
those dragoons got JUICED
I mean, if you refuse to go arbiters for 20 minutes even though it's the ONLY logical thing to do at the moment while constantly floating around 2k gas, you deserve to lose.
curious why the protoss didnt move to carriers since ample went so heavely in mines and tanks. or use hallucinates to boost his army and take hits to break through or maybe corsairs to stun tanks?
im not a PVP, heck i havent played SC1 since sc2. so i would like someone's expertise
true guy in the chat detected
Jumping (transitioning) to Carriers is hard in the middle of such a close match (expensive and takes time). If Terran detects your transition, he should be able to just straight push you and win since you are the weakest while you are transitioning. If Terran doesn't realize immediately, you might have a chance to surprise him (and do a lot of damage) before he gets a lots of Goliaths . Ample is too good to leave a Carrier transition unpunished though.
Hallucinations is a cool idea. I feel you can do little nifty things with Hallucinations to circumstantially trick your opponent. However, hallucinations take double full damage from all attacks, so they are not very durable in a large scale fight.
Corsairs/Disruption Web never did pick up (so far) as a viable play stile at the pro level (though sometimes it shows up). Disruption Web is good, but Arbiters with Stasis Field are SO much better.
I agree with RT that Arbiter tech was YSC's best shot.
Hope that helps!
@@tehvolka thanks for the explaination, makes lots of sense
@@tehvolka The problem with D-web is that its such an apm sink and its so short. If it lasted as long as Dark Swarm though, it would probably be a staple of the meta
GG Tanks are beautiful. I think Terran have the best mining noise.
I really think Protoss should have tried to tech switch to carriers around the 24 minute mark or so. Even a slow tech switch just getting 2-3 stargates would have been game changing.
That or he should have gotten Hallucination and just gotten a bunch of hallucinated shuttles to tank turret shots so his zealot bombs worked better.
The Zealot bombs worked fine here. Pretty ok.
I disagree for Carriers though. I have ideas on how to play around Siege Tanks and this works if the map is large enough. Look out for my main comment.
What an ample game
YSC forgot that protoss can go carriers or arbiters :))) but nice match anyways
Why didn't you make Carrier?
He checked cross spawn first to see if he already won😂
Why do no Protoss use Dweb?
Carriers?
(facepalm sigh..) staying ground vs. Terran (suicide)
Need to race to Carriers for the Win!
The contain was prolonged for so long that carriers would have been the natural choice to break the contain. Just gateway units with that tank count gets really bad after a while. Felt like just stubbornness from YSC to not build a Fleet Beacon.
I hear stuff like this a lot from people. "Why didn't he just make carriers?" Because "just make carriers" is way more resources and time than you realize.
Let's say when he started to make them he threw down 2 stargates. From the moment he started those 2 buildings, to the moment the first 2 carriers had 8 interceptors built, altogether on the stargates, fleet beacon, carriers, capacity upgrade, and interceptors, he would have spent 1800 minerals and 1100 gas and this would have taken 4.5 minutes.
He already had 2 robos, shuttle speed, storm, templar energy. It wasn't stubbornness, it was practicality. By the time 4 carriers were out he would have been run over by 3/2 mech.
@@abstractdaddy1384 3 dragoons aren't much cheaper than a carrier, but they are infinitely worse vs mines and siege tanks. Even only forcing goliaths would have been a positive outcome.
The game went forever and there were very large portions of time when nothing happened. If he couldn't get them in this game, then there is no game ever when you can transition into carriers.
Which is not true because those happen.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing, even 2 of them would have been huge, and then keep adding them.
Ysc needs to stop relying so much on reaver shuttle and actually try to use carriers for once lol
t o r t u r e d .
why no carrier though, he had plenty of time and money to switch gears
Artosis, can you call YSC and tell him that zealots go in front of dragoons? thanks.
Ugh so sad to see Protoss struggling under the weight of the unbreakable Terran slow push so may brace sons of Auir getting turned into blue goo :(
Frankly, with how much Ample was replying on tanks and mines, carriers would've been the best choice.
Great game from Ample!
rofl, i play 'tanks and mines' style in campaign. I cant beleive YSV not using Arbiters to meld that noob factories at main. poor play
hurrr durrr reavers
He could of won if he went carriers or at least arbiters, minute 23 i woulda started either building arbiters with some fakes to recall main or use start runnin carriers they woulda destroyed him, but he just kept to shuttles and goons, really disappointed
This map is so OP for Terran tvp, unless maybe it’s cross spawn. But you’ll never hear that come out of farty’s mouth. Tiny rush distance with buildable middle and high ground terrain where siege tanks can choke out the entire map 😂. Ample did literally nothing in this game but spread tanks and turrets around and wait for OP 3-2. Call protoss plays cheesy, but at least they are PROACTIVE. Average terran players like arty just sit there, only expanding slower…and expect to win every game like this. But when they get out-maneuvered, they cry imbalance.
They made maps this season good for terran bc prior to a month ago terrans were getting wrecked in KCM, there was a season where they got 1-2 points and protoss had 9. Terrans have to camp because mineral for mineral protoss units are OP until terran either gets to 2/1 or gets to 3/2 with 200 supply before things are fair. Keep crying imba, statistically I've been watching BW since 2007 and there's been a total of 3 terrans (flash, light, royal) who have ever had a winning record vs. protoss, so protoss is definitely OP vs. T. I don't think there's more than 1-2 pro protosses that have a losing record against terran. Ample here has maybe a 30% win rate.
@@fangedcow12345 what a poor liar you are. What about Nada, Last, Fantasy, Mind, Sea,and Sharp, all high percentage in tvp, what are you even talking about...
YSC’s mistake was not going carriers
Imagine believing something in this game is “OP for Terran”! 😂
Ample made a lot of great plays, played almost perfect defense. Did counter push to keep YSC off balance too. This map does favor terran with all that buildable terrain for turrets this is true, but I don't think you can hang your hat on YSC getting creamed only on that. YSC made a lot of big mistakes. No arbiters for recall? No carrier switch?
I hate siege tanks so much its unreal
protoss eliminated completely, nothing could make me happier
no Arbiter play? is this some amateur league ?!
Dude. How about you click more on a minimap. All that screen movement is too much.
nkllk
Bad game. Both players locked into their 1 strategy without changing what so ever.
Blizzard sucks. Broodwar should've been patched a long time ago. When they made the game everything was created using Warcraft 2s ideas. Tank was supposed to be like a catapult which you only get a couple in War2. Tank vulture is really op. It's not at all surprising that Protoss are eliminated. They get destroyed on every level except compelte chobo 1300. Shit is broken a f.