MOST CONTROVERSIAL ZOMBIES MAP TIER LIST RESPONSE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ย. 2024
- ⚠️@CJSanta ⚠️: • The Importance of FLOW...
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I’d argue that knowing how to avoid getting cornered is a key part of getting good at zombies.
True but anything can happen 👀 especially on bo4 where zombies are very fast
it is THE key feature to learning how to get better.
Definitely I started getting actually good when I was a kid on bo1 kino of course which I know it’s an easy map but it introduced the training method to me which in itself teaches you to have the movement needed to not be cornered
I know bro acted like they discovered fire by putting a door also who gets stuck by the ice slide
Exactly. Having open map flow is BAD for zombies IMO
I completely disagree with his take that having a "few" dead ends on a map correlates to bad map design, while having an exit pathway for every hallway means that the the map flows well. It's quite simple, if there are small corners in a map that are dead ends, then don't make the mistake to get trapped there in the middle of a round. I don't like this current mindset with newer zombie players that easier maps equals "fun" and more challenging maps "suck".
No I agree. When I heard that complaint I was like well don’t go fucking walking into a dead end then🤦♂️
so true, it’s not the maps fault that he made a stupid decision to go into a tight corridor in the middle of a round xD.
Der riese is a perfect example of this(Jug Spot, The area under Quick Revive, Type 100 area). Even Kino. Yet both the maps had perfect flow and reshaped how the zombies community would play the game in the future
Exactly, and often times there’s a reward in that dead end. There’s high risk and high reward
Gk has a couple of dead ends actually, more than most maps yet it is regarded as one of the best
Take a shot every time Lex says "helion Salvo" or whatever it's called. You'll get liver failure in no time
nah take a shot every time the other guy says “flow” 😭
Helion salvo is not infinite damage on hardcore so not sure why he had to say it so much lol
Take a shot when you hear the word flow
@@marcorodriguez8792 gun or drink?
@@AdamantWind2071 yes
Now we need a map tier list ranked only by flow
Blood of the dead F tier
I think a player has SO MANY opportunities in SOE to not get pushed all the way to the ends of each section. If ur getting pushed back, use the traps, then you try to go upstairs, then you can use beast mode to clear the horde, then you can teleport halfway. IF NONE OF THAT WORKS, try going upstairs again before the dead end, try to use the tram (if it's there). If the tram isnt there, stay upstairs and go backwards then drop down whenever its safe. The map gives you so many ways to avoid being trapped in a dead end, and i think thats amazing.
Can't forget the Gigachad Robocop dude who won't just help oot, but can rez you too 😸
This dude is a fast travel glazer
The wonder weapons points are such a hard disagree for me. The sniperwaffe is just a worse version of the wonderwaffe and the tundra gun is just a joke when I can use the actual thunder gun or the helion. But ultimately it’s just lazy to me. The FINAL aether map and we get the thunder gun and waffe for the 12th time, and not only on a map that’s remade, but a map that actually had really cool and unique wonder weapons that they decided not to bring back.
The tundragun is MILES easier to get than the Hellion or Thundergun. It's literally a 3 minute run around the map and 5000 points to fully upgrade. It's literally a cosmetic reskin of the hellion, except the tundra is infinite damage, and is wayyyy easier to get, and costs 1/5 of the price to get and fully upgrade CONSIDERING if you got the hellion first box hit.
Honestly, hard disagree. Sniperwaffe is *miles* better than the OG Wunderwaffe in terms of kills/stats. With OG Wunderwaffe, it's 10 kills per shot and you have like 40 or so shots which means you can get like 400 kills with it. Sniperwaffe has like 100 shots (about 120 if you have Bandolier) and with it you can get 6 kills with body shots and 12 kills with a headshot which is like literally anywhere from 600-1440 kills. Also Tundragun is similar, it's super underrated, and although the Hellion is as good, you need to get it via the box whereas all WWs can be achieved through a questline. Definitely a lil lazy though but I think they were going for a nostalgia thing
But remember DE lags of innovation
27:21 he talks about how good this tundra gun is because of splash damage and how it’ll do a better job at saving you then a thunder gun but i’m watching it do nothing in the clip
Umm, did you not see the hit markers? 😂 it's killing the zombies behind him. If he just stood there and didn't shoot, his shield would've disappeared lmao
I've done the Attack EE like two or three times now including on director's cut and also did the skullhop EE. I never knew those teleporters existed. I've literally never stepped into any of those 4 parts of the map to get the "hold X" prompt, not even on one of them. I agree with Lex on poor design there bc I have probably around 10 hours on that map and I knew pretty much everything else but I've never even seen these teleporters before lmaooo
Take a shot evertime this dude said flow in his video explaining Tag, youd be dead
He's straight faced trying to say that shi no numa has better map design and flow than shadows of evil. Bait or mental illness?
Tag der Toten and Ancient Evil were great zombies maps screwed over by BO4 Zombies being so dead and the reputation being so shot after the flop of the launch and expectations being set way too high. Those maps would have been fan favorites if they were released in BO3
IX too, don't forget that one
@@taylormoreira1266 IX is a lot more appreciated because it was the one good launch map and that was while everyone was playing BO4. It did get screwed over by all the crashes but it was probably the one map that BO4's system was made for
Yeh I never played it. Never wanted to buy the dlc. Game sucked, couldn't get myself to enjoy it
@@taylormoreira1266 Don't forget DOTN
@@falconhoward4032 I feel this way with all of chaos tbh, Dotn, Voyage, IX, And Ancient evil flow so well with the new systems and are great but then the aether storyline is not at ALL working for it
The layout of Tag is A tier. But things like the Easter egg, Wonder weapon, cutscene and other aspects are D tier. So all in all, Tag is a C tier map for me. I don’t blame this guy for saying the layout is great but saying the map is the “best of all time”? That’s a bit of a stretch.
The layout is actually terrible. It requires so much busy work to even get the map to flow well. Id compare it to setting up zetsubo except in zetsubo all the busy work is actually meaningful to the map and is necessary to get certain things like the masamune and specialist. It really is just zetsubo if it was in a worse setting with worse gameplay and worse rewards for the time put into setting up the map.
Nah the Tundra Gun is at least a B tier wonder weapon. I would personally have it A tier. It’s such a cool wonder weapon imo. I understand we could’ve gotten something a little more unique for the last map. Or maybe something like a revamped Scavenger/VR11. I would’ve preferred that. But the Tundra Gun is still really cool.
The scoped Wonderwaffe is F tier though. That thing is buns.
@OldBenKenobi2318 they could've given us the Scavenger from og Call of the Dead straight up and it would've been fine because zombie health caps at round 30 in bo4 so it would always kill
@@TripleCheekedUp Do the zombies have the same health though?
And I’m pretty sure the harder the difficulty the longer it takes for the health to cap out. So I think they should just make the damage infinite.
@@OldBenKenobi2318 so the health is the same across the games. The cap is actually at 35 I double checked and between 35 and 42 zombie health doubles. It also doesn't matter the difficulty that only effects your health. It would of course be much easier to just give it infinite damage though
We gotta find what this man is smoking.
facts
imagine a whole ass video where someone explains his thinking and you cant comprehend it. Sad
this man be hitting the true zaza
@@dripp_droppyeah I’m listening and comprehension is fine. I’m comprehending that he is a dumbass.
Gonna be a whole ass quest
How can he say the DE bows are carbon copies of the Origin Staffs when his number 1 map has clear as day wonder weapons that we’ve seen over and over again 💀
Bringing back the two most iconic wonder weapons for the finale makes sense. DE is the safest fan favorite map ever made and overrated as hell, using parts from others maps to make one, it's like Rev in disguise.
@@minifridge611maps become fan favourites after not before its made. It’s a favourite because its easier than majority of maps out there. If you complain about the bows being too much like the staffs then you have to hate on everything thats elemental based. Which he didn’t do for alpha omega. DE takes whats not broken and doesn’t try to fix it.
On Shadows of Evil, the portals being two-way is very important. It makes it so that the speed you can get from one end of the map to another is much better than a map like Dead of the Night.
In Night, if your buddy goes down next to a portal, and you're midway through a different wing, you gotta teleport, then book it from the Mansion's main room all the way out to them. Since perks are lost over time, the wait is grueling.
In Shadows, if your buddy dies at boxing ring, unless you're at Nero's Ritual for some reason, its almost the same speed to get there from any spot. And, you can get back to your spot just as quick! Better yet, if you need a breather, just take the tram, sip some water, then get back to the fun back where you started at. I can barely sneak in a swig with the Night Teleporters.
I'm pretty sure the frozen zombies from the Tundragun count as dead as soon as the shot lands, it just keeps the model present to show they died from a freezing weapon
It's literally a reskin Hellion lol
Lex: why would you ever nerf a weapon in a pve mode. (Bo2 hammer)
Also Lex: NerF THe HELiOn!!!!!
Was gonna say this , he also says this about the paralyzer and sliqiuifier
Tbf the Hellion is too OP especially when you consider that most wonder weapons are essentially redundant because you’ve always got a specialist weapon that already does infinite damage. It’s fun to have a gun that’s very strong but a normal gun shouldn’t be outclassing multiple wonder weapons imo.
I think you can make an exception when a default mystery box weapon is outclassing every wonder weapon in the game, that’s just bad game design.
I think the main issue really is zombies health maxing out. if you had normal zombies health like every other game, then the helion would cap out where an infinite damage wonder weapon would continue to kill.
@@epicguy44
The difference is that wonder weapons are meant to be something rewarding to the player. But a random box weapon invalidating every wonder weapon in its game ruins that sense of accomplishment and desire to interact with a map's unique mechanics.
He makes a point about Tag der Toten having 'no dead ends' and complements its flow, but then why was IX placed so much lower on the list? IX is so concentric and confluent that it's the only BO4 map that HAS ZERO SHORTCUTS. Maps like Voyage of Despair and Dead of the Night rely on portals to avoid dead ends, whereas IX was the first map in over a generation of CoD Zombies to be designed where teleporters weren't even necessary to navigate the map - THAT'S the definition of flow.
EDIT: 54:22 It makes me smile to see you recognise and appreciate it as well Lex :)
1:06:35 YES you're preaching it, Lex!
I know its low hanging fruit, but Der Eisendrache's flow is excellent as well. Once the power is turned on in Der Eisendrache, the whole map is basically opened up and connected through the underground crypt. The only true need for teleporters on Der Eisendrache are the ones connecting the map to the Rocket Pad. Aside from that, the other Jump Pads simply embellish Der Eisendrache, they aren't necessary shortcuts but are instead a novelty. Once the power is turned on in Der Eisendrache, the whole map is basically opened up and connected through the underground crypt.
Just as a final thought, would CJ define 'good flow' by how long it takes to get from one side of the map to the opposite side? If so, I bet it takes longer to go from one side of Tag der Toten to the other than it does IX or Der Eisendrache...
(Also if flow is so important, why was Tranzit placed so highly on CJ's list?)
[Also also sorry Lex Five does have bad flow because you are FORCED to use the shortcuts/teleporters to navigate the map, but hey Five is a gimmick map so it doesn't really matter]
I like how this dude says that if he's bad enough at zombies to get stuck in tight areas during the middle of a round, that the map is bad when in reality he just sucks and doesn't know when to go into those areas at the right time
You know what, I respect it. I never thought I’d say it about a “tag is #1” opinion, but I respect it. It makes me wanna play it and all other bo4 maps more and explore all their cracks and crevasses. At the end of the day, right or not, this man knows what he’s talking about. And I respect it.
Tag was one of the few maps I genuinely played in Bo4 when it first came out, and I've gotta say the map is fun to play it's just dragged down by Bo4s system. But hey I enjoyed Classified too so I just thought I was insane
I need a video of lex and cj in one call
Tag unironically is goated, it’s just the fact that it’s the final aether map, and no one gave a shit about BO4 after its release.
Most people's points, including lex, on why this map sucks literally shows they haven't played it enough to actually know what they're talking about. Most of their points are literally lies. This game gets more shit than AW and WW2 but those games had more players.
1:08:58 Design flow absolutely exist but that’s exactly what creates the map flow in terms of traversing the map and the objectives alongside it and gameplay flow which is how the player can access all mechanics with little knowledge yet still keeping them wanting to come back and learn more
Honestly though, his video got me try this map with an open mindset and it’s a good map and cool Easter egg with hella stuff to do
Die rise map flow fix: design remote elevator controller to allow players to interact with the elevator to call it as it already can be done but now also send it up or down depending on where it currently is. Maybe use the navcard as this?
I think this man is confusing the idea of "flow" with an unobstructed or easily traversed area. I feel like he would say outbreak has a good flow, just because it's wide open.
Tag honestly has aweful flow. It doesn't require any skill to traverse, and actively gets you out of trouble with being so open.
Mob of the dead has good flow, there are constant reasons to move from the dock, cafeteria, roof and back again. It also does this with tight spaces like the ramp tower, that is difficult to traverse but becomes easier with skill and understanding predictable zombie movement. A map "killing you" doesn't always mean bad design, sometimes its a skill check for the player, and it sounds like this guy has failed many of those.
Meaningful space should take many shapes and sizes in Zombies. The point of having different maps is that they *should* flow differently.
If EVERY map was Der Riese style with teleporters or wunderspheres at every corner of the map, where on one hand you can quickly get to wherever you need to be, and on the other it makes where you currently are meaningless because of how effortless cross-map traversal is (thus making sticking together in multiplayer not as important... can at worst make online feel more like 4 games of solo at once that pauses whenever somebody downs)... that would be BORING.
Fast travel and interconnectedness isn't an objective quality or flaw, it's a tool.
Mob of the Dead has a long trek from the Cell Block to the Docks, which can be taken for free (provided the doors are open), BUT it also offers a singular gondola you can purchase relatively close to the spawn of the map that takes you to the Docks instantly, where Juggernog is, but it has point cost and skips over a lot of map objectives (which, would mean if you go to the Docks early you arguably would work through the map in "reverse")
Mob takes this dynamic with it's map flow, kinda extending the "which door out of spawn do I buy" decision to the flow philosophy of the entire map; it's shaped like a horseshoe and connects itself fully with that single gondola.
Now look at Buried, a map with no fast travel (I wouldn't really count the well portal) which like the entire Tranzit trilogy, is built around meaningful space (all 3 expressing it in different ways).
Buried is a map with a main hub, the place with plenty of comfortable spaces to survive in either training or camping, that has the majority of the resources you will want to set up... but that hub is missing a core piece of setup. The Pack-A-Punch machine. The comfort of the Town is contrasted perfectly by how hostile and unsafe the Witch's House and Maze feel. Every time you make the Pack-A-Punch journey it's a genuine decision the players make and commit to. And obviously, Double Tap and Stamin-Up are worth making the trip too
But... how else does Buried express it's flow without fast travel? You can fucking fly with the wonder weapon. The map is uniquely built to offer extra traversal through verticality, for the first time going BOTH ways, up and down.
If that's too much BO2, look at Five. Five is essentially 3 big rooms,
- a "big" spawn room in the sense that everything pre-elevator is pretty much the spawn even though it's not literally one room
- a safe hub, in which Juggernog is offered in an explicitly safe location (which isn't always the case in a map) and you have a safe space to train comfortably in
- a highly dangerous, uncomfortable sublevel which has the majority of the box locations, meaning players will be making repeat trips here and thus boom, like Buried, you have a dynamic between periods of comfort and periods of uncertainty/danger
In Five, these areas are segregated by the elevators, have such a unique feel to them (this would count as Five's flow I'd say), since Five is generally a claustrophobic intense map and you get these brief periods of respite in the elevators. The elevators are the tightest spaces in the whole map yet they give the most comfort. But also depending on which level they're on, you may need to wait on an elevator call which can be intense
And, technically, the random teleporters in the sublevel are fast travels. They add to the unpredictability, they can save you but also disorient you. They're cool
Last example, and this is more of a design trope in multiple Zombies maps... the Jug corner. Juggernog being placed in a deadend, which is a deliberate decision to create meaningful space. 99% of players want Jug. If you place Jug in an absolute shitter of a spot, people will need to plan when they will grab it. And whenever they down, they'll need to plan around getting in and out for Jug again. Dead ends CAN be a good tool for creating meaningful space.
JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR, fast travel, and general interconnectedness between all the zones of a map isn't a bad thing! It's good to have options depending on mood, if you want a Der Eisendrache, or a Buried. A Der Riese, or a Five.
Sometimes, being able to just pick up your downed teammates from across the map conveniently is nice, chill. But it can be very fun to incentivize sticking together, coordinating going places at the same time to accomplish things cohesively (like if you want a specific perk, sure, I can spin the box there a few times, let's go), and even feeling tension when you do split up and you can _feel_ the danger in being alone for the first time in awhile.
Obviously meaningful space is just as present in solo games too.
I think that with attack of the radioactive thing lex has a good point, I’ve been doing the IW EE’s for the first time and I’m currently trying this map, and I only now found out about these teleporters from this video. It’s useful now that I know and it will make the map much more bearable, but it’s not intuitive at all so it loses game design points for that
I feel like a good analogy for why none of his rantings and ravings about these extra mechanics that do cool things and interact with the map an interesting ways would be the current problem with electric cars, and to a lesser but definitely equally valid extent, newer especially luxury cars.
It's really cool that you can put everything onto one touch screen In the center of the car and that we don't need physical buttons anymore. It's very cool that you can make your car do a song and dance routine opening and closing your doors and flashing lights. It's really crazy that it can do 0 to 60 in a blink of an eye.
But they're making the cars harder to use at the expense of these features. Or the features themselves don't ever get a chance to shine because the car does not function better than an old car as a car.
Tag is the Tesla of zombies maps.
Tag was a very solid map, but unfortunately, it was on BO4. BO4 had so many issues, and the gameplay was suboptimal to say the least. If Tag was on the BO3 engine, I truly believe it would be one of the greats.
AND if it wasn't the last true aether map lol
Tell me tho, what about it being on bo3 would make it better? I've never understood this argument.
@@NC-cf7kl Hud and Perks
@@NC-cf7kl BO3 specialist system, perks , and no helion salvo
@zeronines2760 well people complain there's too much to do on bo4 so adding a quest for the specialist would not help, and people would hate the rng of getting it in the box if that's what they did, perks are pure preference, and if you don't like the hellion don't get it. I think it's funny those small things will ruin an entire map for people lmao.
As weird as this guys opinion is, I never like when lex takes the story of the map into account when he’s clearly talking about gameplay
i totally understand why he likes tag but i still find the map uninteresting. it’s missing casual replayability and i dont ever feel like doing the easter egg again either. it’s a map that doesn’t have either.
what isn’t casual about it lol, open power, hit boxes for wonder weapons.
It's the most replayable and casual friendly map on bo4 aside from maybe classified. Can literally get the tundragun, which is just a hellion reskin, in a 3 min map run, there are no boss zombies of the likes of the rest of bo4, and considering how easy bo4 is in general with winters wail and dying wish with specialist weapons, it's so easy. Also the easiest EE probably in history. I've done this egg everytime I've played the map because it's literally so easy.
Also, this map ALWAYS has casuals and is in my experience the most populated maps online. There's days I can't find any online match on bo4 except for this map.
it would be funny if you did a map tier list, tier list. like ranking other peoples tier lists on a tier list
The narrow alleys and pathways on shadows made you get better and felt rewarding when you got the flow down and knowing what routes to move through on the high rounds, your just bad at zombies and don’t want to get better if you are complaining about the narrrow alleys on shadows … as if you can’t navigate around them 😭😭
i could see a Bo3 custom remaster of Tag being fire
Yes and bring George back!!!
@@ohhbiio just play the call of the dead remaster on bo3 custom zombies if you miss George so much (sorry if this sounds rude)
@@ohhbiio yeah george doesn’t need to be on a tag remake. Tag would be fire with a bo3 perk system. The perk system, and to a lesser degree the point system, is largely why bo4 sucks
It’s so relieving to see a zombies TH-camr that doesn’t hate on my favorite game being bo4. Yall need to stop hating and just enjoy these good maps.
What are you smoking?
Ix, Dead of the night, Ancient evil and Tag; are all considered good if not amazing maps, but you also have to admit bo4 has objective flaws, especially, but World at war is basically unplayable, so why is it Loved?
Because it wasn't an evolution of mechanics it was change for the sake of change, Black ops 1 built on World war, Black ops 2 built on Black ops 1, Black ops 3 perfected the formula for zombies players, Cold war simplifies the formula so new players can enjoy our favorite mode, Black ops 4... Have you seen the hud? A Games map, should compliment the mechanics, so in Cold war the Easter eggs are simplified layouts are simplified, because it's aim is to be an entry point, World at war is extremely horror based where you know eventually you're going to die and at the end of the day survival is pointless, where it was expected for the player to essentially sit in a corner with a lmg, so the maps like Nacht, verruckt, and Der reise shine because the map compliments intended gameplay.
Bo1 has a more mystical and comedic tone, guns like the baby gun, thunder gun, gersches, it's Sci-fi turned up to the max with the time period they physically can, so we have maps like Ascension, shang, call of the dead, MOON. Otherworldly experiences with collosal Micheal Bay level effects. Black ops 2 is where a group on a newly destroyed earth get talked to by a horny Richthofen and Maxis while fighting a Lightning ghost, where time itself is crashing and imploding, so we have nocturne toten inside of Transit, MOB, Origins, Buried,
Bo3 is zombies anime Arc, I don't need to elaborate further, BO2 on crack.
Cold war is all about resetting, being digestible, so we have Nacht+ facility, Vietnam+ facility, Berlin+facility, and Russia+ facility.
What is Black ops 4's goal? Besides blood of the Dead, you can delete everything from Black ops 4 and it would be perfect. Chaos is underdeveloped, the story is underdeveloped, the mechanics are overdeveloped.
Maps like IX and and ancient evil, that makes sense.
Then there's maps like classified, and Alpha and omega.
The entire point of Black ops 4 is change because of change, and the story in the maps reflect that. Heavily, instead of complimenting, they make a shark nado level catastrophe. We're half of the maps roster blood of the Dead, voyage, Classified, and alpha, are tedious chores. With no gratifying pay off.
Black ops 4 can be your favorite, but don't say that we all dislike it because we're simply haters 👍
@@craig2196 I understand your point but I see the launch of the game a different way. The community didn’t give Blundell a chance with the new story or perk system. If bo4 was built like bo3 people would have complained about the game being copied and pasted. I wish that the community would have allowed Blundell to experiment with the new perk system instead of kicking him out the door because we wanted a game that ran the exact same way bo3 did. Blood of the Dead, Voyage, and Alpha all have key flaws but I don’t know what you’re talking about with classified. I see it the same way as I see the giant. An improved version of a classic map with more depth and story. Also people completely rejected the chaos story after two maps only because it wasn’t Aether. Imagine a whole game of Chaos that could have had maps like the Library of Alexandria, Egypt, Aztec Ruins, Atlantis, and maybe even some more locations mentioned in different mythologies. All in another game where Blundell could refine bo4s mechanics based on community feedback. Also I personally despise Cold War. It feels to me like Fortnite zombies. No characters, no voice lines, no atmosphere. Just 4 facility maps with wonder weapons that only work with ring of fire. Also arrows on my screen telling me where to go and a warzone mini map that serves no purpose. A perk system that allows the player to be invincible in about an hour of spamming the fridge that has all the tier 5 perks in it. The specialists are just a worse version of the bo4 ones with a boring aesthetic. The only one I’ve ever seen utilized is ring of fire. I can’t see how that game is better than an expansive title like bo4 that at least tried to put a different spin on the zombies formula. Also I just want to say I respect your opinion and I apologize for rambling. Just something I’ve thought about a lot.
Bo4 is ass stay mad
@@kendallscott5072 any reasoning?
@@jackpot2223 wouldn’t you like to know
This guy is just professing his love for fast travel
Everyone has their opinion. I personally dont even have Tag in my top 25
I don’t have it in my top 40
It gets to a point where your opinion is so ridiculous it’s just flat out wrong lmao
@@thebarrelv232that’s why it’s an OPINION. Not a fact.
Tag is tied with the top 3 worst treyarch maps of all time with DOTN and alpha omega
@@th12906bruh that's just wrong
Here is what I don't understand. He loves map flow so much, yet his example of bad map flow being Tranzit and having tranzit at like 16 overall does not make sense.
I like having the option even in the rare case you do get trapped
This is one of my most favorite zombies map of all time, This map has a mystery and an unfinished feel but It has a feel and eeriness to it I can’t shake, being the last
Map, I can see the gameplay, I can see the energy, there is a lot missing, seeing mars still gives me butterflies til this day, I have dreams of me floating around in space with that exact image in my brain the infinite cold
I personally believe that dead zones in maps that are in-between main areas are good and being able to get around those areas without dying is the skill ceiling that zombies need. For variants of two of the most og WW we needed them to have more flair (like the gauntlets) having the tundra gun shoot a constant stream of cold air or the wunderwaff insta killing on headshots rather than being normal on headshots.
Game flow should also be how you progress through the rounds. The setup, high rounds, or even the eggs
I get both sides but I’ll just add that playing on hardcore removes the health cap which makes the Hellion Salvo more balanced, and the 3 hit down isn’t that bad when you’ve got stuff like Winter’s Wail and Dying Wish. Playing on that difficulty gives you a new appreciation for things like the Tundragun and Waffe
The narrow paths arent a flow problem, the game is supposed to be at least a little challenging. Same with the dead ends, its not bad flow its an obstacle/challenging part. And hard disagree with fast travel, love looking at the same teleporting animation 100 times a game instead of actually going there
My main problem is his opinion regarding dead ends.
He talks about how it's "unfair" to die due to getting cornered in a dead end, my guy, YOU WALKED IN THERE????
I'm getting sick of the argument "All weapons poopoo because Helion exists".
Why does the Helion existing have to suddenly mean you aren't allowed to use the other Weapons, because you AREN'T FORCED TO USE IT!
The Helion argument is so annoying.
The Apothicon Servent is OP on SOE, but I still use the Sword, and normal weapons.
The Thundergun is better than the DG2 in every way, but I still like the DG2 more, and would choose it over the Thundergun 9/10 times.
The Mark 3 isn't good past Round 50, but it is still fun to use, and I still use it every GK match.
The Ice Staff is technically the best staff, but I hate is with a passion, and would rather use the lighting staff.
The Kraken is dogshit, but it's cool so I use it.
If I am just playing a match of BO4 Zombies for fun(not going for a high round)I am not touching the Helion with a 10 foot pole.
Why would I use it when I can use a cool, fun Wonder Weapon?
You can't rank weapons purely based off of which one is optimal for High Rounds, because High Rounds is a niche in Zombies(real High Rounds are at least, 50 is more of a casual High Round that doesn't require the Helion on any map).
everything you said is either just choosing something worse for no reason or not saying anything. The sword and normal weapons are needed on soe bc ammo restrictions. thundergun is just better? idk why youd ever take the waffe, it hurts you and kills 10 zombies. and everything else is just like what are you saying. I get sometimes wanting to have fun so you use something else, but i didnt see you putting winters howl in there, bc that shit is ass. Like youre gonna use the best thing 99% of the time bc we want to play the game not just die bc I dont wanna use a gun thats better.
@Sytsn_ but not everyone wants to survive as long as possible.
Most people that play Zombies only want/can only get to Rounds 20-30, which not only doesn't require the technically best weapon, using said weapon would make doing so more difficult and/or boring(depending on the map).
I can get to Round 50 on pretty much any map without using the best technical weapon.
The only times I ever use the Helion when playing BO4 is for High Rounds(mostly for Tag, I used other methods for the other maps), or the VOD Boss Fight.
Your DG2 comment is also overblown.
It's only on 2 maps out of the 11 it's been on where it hurts you, and the High Rounds for WaW Shi no Numa require it, so the only map where it's a detriment is WaW Der Riese(but even then, if you are just going to Round 30, it's fine).
Also, the DG2 has never killed you, it just broke your Jug, which can be avoided if you're careful.
Also, yes, I didn't include the Winters Howl, but I actually like it.
It's dogshit on Five, but on Classified, it's really good until Round 50ish.
@@Sir_Slimbread you just casual as hell is what I hear. Which is fine. Just why comment so adamantly
@Sytsn_ Casual?
I've done every Solo Easter Egg(at least for Treyarch).
I've done most of the Co-op Only Easter Eggs.
I've been to at least Round 50 on every map(100+ on others).
I've been playing since WaW.
I've bought/played every single map(except for the Frozen Dawn).
I got every Zombies Camo in BO3.
I got Dark Matter in BO4.
I got Dark Aether in CW.
I reached Max Rank in BO4.
*I'm not Max Rank in BO3, but that's because I had to play Local for the first Month, I played it on multiple platforms, and it just takes much longer than it does in any other COD Zombies to Rank Up.
I hit Rank 200 every Cold War Season(playing 85-90% Zombies).
I have every BO4 DLC Weapon from playing 90% Zombies).
I played WaW Custom Zombies.
I play BO3 Custom Zombies.
etc.
You're the casual if you can only survive in BO4 if you are using the Helion.
@@Sir_Slimbread I’m not a casual I just don’t play bo4. Idk bros getting real upset. High rounds is what’s fun to me, and I feel like everything else is just easier there for kinda casual.
Also when I hear people not wanting to use the best strata or weapons, they care more about fun than doing well, so that’s a sign of a casual. If you aren’t you aren’t, you have nothing to prove to a random dude online in a comments section
The zaza production in germany is backed up so i think i found who‘s at fault
You really need to do a collab stream with CJ Santa, even getting him to play Die Rise Remastered
Oh boy lol
Does Lex has his own tier list? I was searching for it and didn’t found it. I do feel at this point he should have made one, if not do it ASAP, ppl will love it!
I don’t want to come off as mean, but this guy thinks “tight corridors and rooms is bad flow” and that’s just blatantly incorrect.
Adding fast travel to IX goes against both game AND map flow.
For game flow travelling up and down through a boring animation completely breaks game flow, you aren’t even engaging with the game at all. What flow is there when there’s no game being played and no threat. I’d always much prefer a map be close quarters with everything being in relativity quick easy running distance, such as the shield in IX only being like 15 seconds away. Also, you let the shield get broken, you shouldn’t be able to get it back for free by fast travelling while invincible, instead you earn your shield back. It’s engaging to run around the zombies and adds so much more game flow than a fast travel ever would in IX.
For map flow adding fast travel to IX COMPLETELY invalidates the third floor, which is something we have been laughing at Blood of the Dead for doing with the newly added parts of the map for years now. The third floor is like an obstacle, you want to get to PaP and the shield you have to make it past the corridors and third floor, it gives the rooms purpose, even if it’s just a little. Plus it all flows perfectly, once you get into the third floor it’s not like you don’t know where to go or what your options are, what you need to do is simple even if a little challenging sometimes, there is ALWAYS enough room for you to make it past.
TBH this guy just sounds like he wants every map to be completely open with no dead ends or tight corridors whatsoever, which to me not only goes against the entire concept of zombies to begin with but goes against COD zombies as well. You need the tight corridors and dead ends to make certain items more rewarding and engaging, JUG in Kino being in a dead end gives a good risk reward factor and adds some decision making, even if it’s pretty safe for the most part going for it inbetween rounds it’s still something, it’s a decision. Mindlessly being able to run around all zombies and get all perks with no restraint isn’t engaging gameplay, it’s ironically enough mindless zombie gameplay where every decision doesn’t matter because there’s 0 risk.
i personally don’t see were in bad place rn it just the final shape was amazing experience and we’re definitely going to have another one in the future. seasons and episodes only the way they are just to build the climax in the expansions. it okay to leave and come back before expansion
everything he said about shadows is literally just a skill issue you have like 7 get out of jail free cards everywhere you go on that map it’s literally perfect flow
60:00 looking at the layout it’s just dawned on me that shi no numa is the opposite of nine, with a small square in the middle and four larger “circles” on the outside
1 thing I don't like about the zombies community is how certain opinions become "fact" and that whenever somebody has a differing opinion that "they don't know what they're talking about". People are going to enjoy things differently, and as long as they present logical points as to why they enjoy what they do, I'm all for it even if I disagree. If anything I find it interesting to see differing perspectives
New drinking game: Take a shot every time Lex mentions the Helion Salvo
Why didn’t they bring the scavenger back? They could have fixed it and made it better than what it was
12:25 me when I think of good map design and flow I think of der riese… it’s literally the perfect map
Here’s my ultimate take: if you swapped Tag and Revelations into the other games, and gave actual 3D animated cutscenes, you improve both game endings
And both maps become Top 10 because of the games they would be in.
Lex said the tundra gun freezes the zombies and the hellion kills them instantly, the tundra gun just cosmetically freezes them they are dead and you can walk through them, the tundra gun is a cosmetic reskin of the hellion mixed with the thunder gun. It's just as effective. It's literally just up to do I cosmetically want a rocket launcher or cosmetically a snow thundergun. The Tundragun is the same exact weapon as the hellion, and it's a LOT easier to get than the hellion. Easiest way to ever get a wonder weapon honestly. And about the reusing electric zombies, this map had a million nostalgic callbacks and that was one of them. It wasn't reuse imo, it was a callback.
CJ makes awesome vids!
If by awesome you mean the most wrong opinions I’ve had the displeasure of listening to then yes he makes awesome vids ( joking I like the dialogues he opens )
I don’t think ppl realize… zombies was good because it was hard. It was good because it was imperfect. It had flaws. It was scary. There was nothing overpowered u could get before round 10 other than the wonder weapon itself. That’s what made us all fall in love with zombies. The challenge. The fact that it was you vs the world on every map and you had to figure out how to survive.
The reason this map isn’t in anyone’s top 10 is because 1. It is easy with the specialists, b. Because the wonder weapons are trash, and c. Because there aren’t the original perks. Those 3 things are the 3 core fundamentals of zombies and this map breaks all of them. Screw flow. A map NOT having flow is what made it hard and good!
The maps were tough and hard to beat. But then the box rewarded you with the WONDER WEAPON! Boom! Now you’re killing zombies in one hit. Your friends are jealous. And suddenly you get a new high round of 25. THAT. Is what zombies is about t
The most controversial cod zombies tier list aka your cod zombies zombies tier list
If a map only has 1 good camping/training spot it’s a bad map imo MOTD is my fav map because of the fact that I can go wherever I want. There’s the usual acid trap room, there’s pap, there’s the docks and I love it among other things.
my problem is this dude boils down flow to fast travel. flow is about how the map plays in general. especially in the early game when you’re trying to get everything opened up. maps like de have great flow because while you only need to open 6 doors to do the easter egg, you can’t take advantage of things like double points early, nor can you quickly kill zombies. so while the map plays slow until your bow is upgraded, there’s few doors, though expensive make you feel like you’re making great progress with each door opened. compare this with a map like zetsubo that has a ridiculous amount of doors, but they’re cheaper, and no matter which lab you go to first you’ll have access to the bowie knife at around the same time allowing for a large gathering of points to open those doors
The ONLY reason I don't have a problem with this is because he is only speaking for himself and his own experiences. Which is why I don't understand why people in the comments are clowning on him so much, because it actually a problem if he was speaking for everyone, which is I can disagree and go about my day because I didn't have this same experience.
I don’t know why it’s probably just a me thing but it bothers me that he called it the greatest. To me it sounds like it’s the definitive best one. However I do like how he explains why he thinks that because it at least shows that he experienced the map so it does come across as his opinion. I’m just someone who believes there’s no true best map. Because let’s face it you can have fun on so many of these maps
Lex after figuring out he doesnt have to use the Hellion Salvo or camp and can just have fun the way he wants: 🤯🤯🤯
I haven’t agreed with this dude once but when he started talking about how he doesn’t like Shadows. I gotta agree
I know this is off-topic, but I wish Five didn't intro the Winter's Howl. It should've been on CotD and return on Tag. It would probably make the playability worse, but I'm a sucker for WWs being thematic on their respective maps.
I think you’re right actually. The Scavenger kinda fits on Five the more I think about it as well, being a sniper that shoots bombs which sounds like something the US Military might cook up. It also just fits Five thematically.
22:38 well you’ll die without phd with the helion too so why not run the tundra gun?
Exactly lmao
I really like Tag. In fact, I think it's rated too low in almost every ranking I've seen, but 1? No way dude lol
The “fast travel” or portals on Shadows are only aesthetic, they could just be open doorways and you would end up in the same place. But Shadows flow is unreal, this guy just needs to learn when to make a move and when not to, that has always been an aspect of zombies that makes it challenging and therefore fun. It sounds like this guy just wants everything on easy mode and might enjoy the game better without all the pesky zombies
the only reason I would put this map higher than all the maps is only because of Misty our beloved one
Her chest was nerfed in BO4. What a shame. Still a good girl
Indeed. Her chest got nerfed. You hate to see it...
This man said he literally never opens that one door and no one does then foes on to day this map makes use of every area and makes it accessible, and that there is no wasted space 🤣
With that being said, W video, great editing and i love that he explains his beliefs
How to fix maps with ‘poor map flow’ and ‘deadends’: get good
The fact he made an entire vid that's basically "hear me out" means he knows his takes are not hotter than the suns core
hes literally trolling and im not falling for it
He’s not tho. Get disliked
@@Laggmaster82bro said get disliked 💀
@@Laggmaster82do you live under a rock? dislikes got removed years ago.
@@danskrridk I can still see them
Damn
Honestly, with the mechanics part, I feel the best way to compare a great mechanic to a meh one is Buried with Leeroy. He has so much utility that isn't inconvenient, and in fact rewards you for engaging in it simply FOR using it. With Tag, you gotta kill three dudes in a specific way then build a thing then you can destroy a barrier. In Buried though, you just get rum and direct Leeroy at a barrier and you even get points for it while you get a free spawn every round and can just buy more if you need it.
As nice as the idea is, it goes from "Oh here is something I need to do because I actually want to be doing this" to "Oh, I need to do all this tedium to open stuff up..."
Edit: also with how much he talks about Fast Travel in flow, I genuinely think it's a skill issue. Yeah he does make some valid points, but I feel like a lot of his points on fast travel boil down to "I want to be able to get everything I could need as quickly and simply as possible with as little risk" and while there are maps that definitely want you to play into that for one reason or another, it takes out a lot of on the fly decision making and skill, as well as both game and map knowledge, like how Lex pointed out with in regards to super sprinters or how many options you have in Shadows.
23 minutes of glazing for a mid map is wild
Man makes valid point/ lex counters with helion salvo
Bringing up the Helion salvo is the reason they buffs and nerfs in weapons in zombies
This man literally just said “Call of the Dead on BO3”
Talk about the Hellion Salvo all you want on the other maps but the Tundra Gun is essentially the exact same as the Hellion with less self-damage, a simple challenge to get it without spinning the box... and you can just carry both
Man lex just yapping lmao
The only things I disagreed with in CJ's 2 videos was that IX & SOE have bad map design/game flow.
IX is literally 2 circles on top of each other.
1 Fast Travel that takes you from PaP to Spawn wouldn't bother me, but it is unnecessary.
There's literally a tram, and a teleporter in each area.
You, so you are never "stuck" like he said with Tag.
It literally isn’t perfect because George Romero isn’t in it. RIP my friend.
Lex didn’t even try to listen/understand the wonder weapons portion
because the helion salvo exists. In a PVE gamemode, the weapon that kills the enemies better are better and the other ones arent as good. And when you have a basic gun better than your special weapon it ruins it
@@loopy7117in that same logic people can still pick other good weapons that will more than likely last just as long, people min/maxing everything is the problem
drinking challenge. Take a shot every time hellion salvo is mentioned
Gameplay-wise, Cold War was absolute fire. We just want more lore and originality!
32:00 I will say i genuinely do solely because of the mark 2s and Rushmore, and that is all
You personally choosing to exclusively use the over powered “meta” in every single bo4 game you play isn’t a strike against the map itself. Lex constantly says “nerfing guns in a PvE game is stupid” but says the salvo being OP ruins Bo4
I think Lex has to 1v1 this guy in high rounds on Shadows of Evil, and then we’ll see if its the map flow that makes the difference lmao
Tag is good but George and scavenger is missing. It can’t be the best map when 2 fun and unique aspects of the original map are gone.
You tell me how the FUCK shadows of evil doesn’t have a better flow than fucking TDT. Virtually you can train on just about any fucking spot on that map and it will be viable. I just don’t understand.
Feels illegal being this early while I’m at work💀😂
The irony is that a lot of people put tag der toten at the bottom
It’s still weird how he says the de bows are unoriginal but he likes the wonder weapons on alpha omega and tag lol
I do really like Tag but I feel that there are def maps with way better flow and systems
Tag suffers from being on BO4. It’s pretty simple
Yeah it probably would’ve been one of the best zombies maps if it was on a game like bo3