The scene where Shaxs asks T'Illups what physical memories they have is even funnier if you think about the fact that Billups is asexual and a virgin and has been merged with T'Ana who... has done some things with Shaxs. The part of T'Illups that was Billups must be very disturbed.
There's so many different kind of asexuals, including many who don't feel "disturbed" by the idea of sex & are more just "meh" about it. Billips struck me as the "meh" kind since it isn't even the sex itself he cares about. It's whether his mom can bully him into losing his virginity & due to odd cultural customs, it ending his career as an engineer, which is his dream. Who knows what Billips would be like if this factor was removed. (Edited to add: I phrased that last sentence poorly & can just leave it off)
I really liked the acknowledgement of Janeway murdering Tuvix was followed immediately by "we're not trapped in the Delta Quadrant." They have way more expertise at their disposal for handling this, and plan to use it! It all goes to hell because T'illups is understandably freaked out after reading what happened to Tuvix, but that doesn't negate them acting like intelligent people.
@@weshurst4895 Which they'd deal with in however many years and/or decades it took for them to get home. Right now, they needed their people back. The whole reason it was a hard decision is because time and circumstances put their backs to the wall...
I think the episode brought up an important point with the whole “we’re not lost in the delta quadrant” point. They’ve got flexibility and resources that Janeway didn’t. I thought they also did a good job of addressing the Twovix question while also telling their own story.
My one bad point about the episode was Captain Doctor Freeglimoo's reaction to being merged for this very reason. Freeman was all like 'We're not in the Delta Quadrant, we have resources, we can figure this out!' but then the moment she got merged, she did a 180 and was enthusiastically going after the senior crew to merge? I would have expected more resistance to T'Illups' plan.
@@nihtgengalastnamegoeshere7526 It suggests either something about Miglimoo's belief, or about the orchid hybrids themselves. Perhaps they have a very strong preservation instinct, and even the small risk that Starfleet would still kill them was enough. Still, you'd think they'd have qualms about the fact that every merger kills two lives to make one new one.
I love little masks slip from Mariner when she sees Voyager, she just as excited as the rest of the gang (maybe even more excited than the rest). With standard Mariner redirection "Boimler gonna flip" after that.
The way they handled Voyager felt very grounded and real to me. Janeway is a high ranking officer who’s still active in Starfleet and is off doing her own thing. I think it would have actually been less believable for her to appear. The curator was perfect.
Jerry O'Connell deserves more praise. I like the answer for Janeway's action which both sides could understand. She was in the Delta quadrant with limited resources and had to make tough decisions either way
true but like....it was still murder of an innocent man the idea that she was promoted after that is insane........but then again riker did kill his clone in that racist irish episode
One thing that caught my eye was the view of the Klingon bridge when the ship was being destroyed. Reminded me of the destruction of the third Klingon ship at the beginning of Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
My prediction for this season, T’lin isn’t Vulcan. She’s a spy, similar to the ambassador from TNG that turned out to be Romulan. So I think either she’s Romulan, or Possibly Cardasian. At one point she says “High Command will not be happy”. That ain’t a Vulcan thing to do! Later in the episode she references the High Council instead. A slip of the tongue in the heat of the moment, maybe but not very logical. I may be wrong, but I wanted to put it in writing somewhere, in case I’m not.
I am obssessed with Captain Frigleeman. Also, its cool to see Bomler and Rutherford have a display in the Voyager museum, tying them to the story of the ship is great and its funny to consider that display existing in Picard
My first Tuvix thought is that Tom Wright killed it. Came in cold, and nailed a performance that made us care that Tuvix was murdered. Regardless of anything else, I’ve got to respect the actor. My ethically dubious solution: a coin toss. Heads is Tuvix, tails is Neelix and Tuvok. Would Janeway have done anything else other than bring back Tuvok? No. She started this whole mission to rescue him, she went back in time at the end to save him from a degenerative mental condition. Janeway’s loyalty to Tuvok is boundless.
@@MariaMartinez-researcherJaneway should have just talked to Tuvix and said this! Instead of just murdering him! It would be better if she talked to him and then he willingly sacrifice himself so Neelix And Tuvoc can live! Besides they never reviseted or discussed Tuvix later
I'm very happy to see our favourite Orion is now a Lieutenant! :D eeing those fusions was fun to see, it's like a guessing game, guess who fused with who!
The noises I made when the Voyager theme played. I was a little disappointed they didn’t have one of Voyager’s guest star but seeing the Cerritos crew deal with Voyager’s unique chaos made up for it. God so much weird shit happen on that ship.
This episode was utterly fantastic in so many ways and you listed all of them. And don't worry, you're far from alone in finding the Freeman/Migleemo hybrid as hot.
The enemy unknown ship gives star trek online iconian ship vibes Would be neat for Lower Decks to do a story on the Iconians, even canonizing them on screen
I always thought that Mariner's Big Trouble is that she has a bizarre, irrational fear of being in an official leadership position, and all of her biggest failures and worst behavior comes from intentionally or unintentionally taking actions to prevent that status. What do we think about this? I hope we can find out why she's like that.
Best solution I can think of would be to tranquilize Tuvix, then create a transporter doppelganger, and randomly select one to be split into the component characters. Still morally dubious, but this way the doppelganger is spared the trauma of knowing they will be murdered. Also If Chapel can survive a ship being blown in half, the Klingon Captain has a chance.
Kind of similar to how Scotty kept himself in the pattern buffer on the surface of that Dyson sphere. Satisfying solution to the 'ship of theseus' dilemma that Tuvix partially represents. 🤔😳😛
But given how there have only been ONE time that a transporter clone was made through EXTREME circumstances that likely aren't easily replicated, it's no surprise "just making a copy and picking one of them split" wasn't on the list of solutions given the time and energy it would've taken to try to successfully make a copy. And that without the possibility of a similar planet/moon being held by a species that doesn't like outsiders.
The Voyager museum thing ties into her fate in the alternate future of Endgame, too! "Voyager is a museum, on the grounds of the Presidio." Presumably in right the same place she's going to now.
I'm still not clear why Voyager actually NEEDED to be decommissioned. Was it a Galactica situation, where years of constant wear and tear took a toll? Or was it being torn apart to reverse-engineer the advances it incorporated? Seven years seems like a very short lifespan for a starship.
I think it's a PR thing. As fun as they are for us viewers, the average Federation person doesn't give a shit about a ship like the Cerritos. But a ship like Voyager, it had an epic adventure on the other side of the galaxy, it'd fire up people's imaginations. So turning it into a museum where people can visit and be inspired to want to join Starfleet and have adventures, or just support the existence and mission of Starfleet in a general sense probably does more to help Starfleet than just having one more Intrepid class in the fleet.
While Seven wasn't a mole for the Collective, she did upgrade the ship in places with Borg-based technology and software. I can see Starfleet quarantining Voyager for that alone, along with studying every self-sealing stem bolt in and every inch of the spaceframe for stress fractures and other issues that cropped up from 7 years of no maintenance from a Starfleet shipyard or spacedock.
The "Twovix" pun alone deserves an award. I'd love to have seen the writer's room after someone came up with that gem. Was sort of disappointed they took the coward's way out of the Tuvix problem though! The plot was decided in just such a way that there was no real choice.
In addition to the changes to the opening theme animation, they also snuck the Great Koala of the Universe into the Star Trek chevron splash roll before each episode.
I love how the writers didn't sit on the fence on Tuvix and tell us on two separate occasions that he was straight up murdered but also build on the thought experiment by giving us someone who is actually a threat this time. I wonder how many people who think Tuvix was murdered are somewhat more accepting on separating hybrids who, despite being their own persons, are now also endangering people. I do love their get-out-of-jail solution by having T'Lynn forced to merge everyone together so as to become a nonsentient blob of meat making the arguments over the rights of an individual completely moot.
I had a big smile this whole episode! Seeing Voyager and hearing the theme again was great! Also, this might be really offensive of me to say, but is it possible that T'lyn is a Romulan spy of some sort? Her talking about how easy Starfleet security is to bypass, along with the references to Romulan spies and all. I'm probably just grasping at straws though
I just watched them online (I'm Spanish) and I loved the episodes. And yes, Tendi and T'lynn have an excellent chemistry (classical, but excellent for comedy). They remind me a bit of Adam Savage and Jimie Hyneman in Mythbusters. I also loved how Ransom referred to Shax as "amigo" ("friend" in Spanish)
The deaths of the Klingons feels like the slaughter of the _Solvang_ to me - shocking, but when you try to articulate exactly why it's shocking, it's hard to nail down. There's no cast iron reason why characters of that ilk shouldn't be allowed to be killed off, except that they seemed to go into a different box. They're recurring comic relief, our expectation is set from our previous encounter with them that if we see them again, it'll be in a lighthearted and whimsical way - being strict about not letting shoes touch the carpet, extolling the virtues of honourable combat - they feel like they should be off limits for killing.
They didn't feel any pain, and gave their lives defending the borders of the Klingon Empire. Perhaps not the most honorable deaths, but there is still a sliver of honor to be had.
I don't think the crews are dead. There were no bodies or body parts floating around after the explosions, as there should have been. We see a Romulan commander's chair and a Klingon blood wine barrel floating around, but no bodies, that is suspicious to me. I've seen crash sites of planes on tv and there are always at least pieces of bodies.
So much fun seeing T'lyn return for more than a cameo. Shame she wasn't in the second episode. I'm less familiar with Voyager and DS9 than I am other series, so a lot of stuff was probably lost on me.
Neat how Lower Decks made a new enemy out of a story beat from a Legacy 1990s Trek. Just like the Pakleds Now there are "Hybrids" two personalities merged to one.
Really glad these episodes introduced some status quo changes. Also the "mystery threat" reminds me of a smoothed out time ship from TNG's A Matter of Time.
It’s gotta be peanut hamper and Agamus taking out all those ships, with badgy acting as the main weapons control. The question remains, how the heck did they escape the daystrom institute?!? Also, when that klingon captain got blown up I was so upset!
We debate about the Tuvix situation with Janeway, but we do not debate nearly enough about the Sim situation with regards to Archer. If Janeway murdered Tuvix, Archer definitely murdered Sim. Justice for Sim.
10:20 You don't make a second copy at ALL. Just set up the transporters to separate the 3 of them. Energize Tuvix, then in the pattern buffer separate the patterns to 3 lifeforms. But LD changed the whole idea of this group of "hybrids" who attacked the crew. Tuvix was a victim, these hybrids are aggressors
They were aggressors because they knew they had to defend themselves in order to survive, which, alas, made it more acceptable that they did not. Kinda sorta.
Shax's question to T'illups is even funnier considering the tradition from Billups' home planet. Would that automatically make T'illups Hysperian royalty?
I'm imagining his mother's reaction. "Are you saying we could have had a CATGIRL QUEEN?! I must get a sample of this orchid. For ... growing in the royal garden. Yesssss...."
I would love to see Billups's mom trying to sue Star Fleet for robbing her of a new monarch, arguing in court that being genetically merged with another being qualifies for "sexual congress". "But your honor, Billups and T'Ana were joined as one, and from these ancient writings, poets have often used such language..."
The fun is I am just rewatching Voyger these days. Actually, I have never seen the first seasons. I have seen the Tuvix or the Clown/Fear episodes recently. Which is great because otherwise I would not have enjoyed this episode as much as I have.
Relatable Vulcan learning to accept emotions, where have I heard this before OTHER than Spock??? 🎵 It's been a long road, getting from there to here... 🎶 T'Pol, at least in Enterprise seasons 3 & 4.
T'Pol, despite some awkward writing and costuming (Let T'Pol wear the Starfleet jumpsuit in the prime timeline you cowards), is genuinely one of my favourite Trek characters of all time, cuz you could feel her growth throughout the series
HUGE fan of Lower Decks too and your commentary of the premiere episode. So excited for this new season. I love how LD is not afraid to upset the status quo, exploring new dynamics with characters in new situations, love character growth, and love the development of Ransom, that he isn't just a meathead, but an actual good officer. I've done Boimer for cosplay but may start doing Ransom. I have the beard after all. lol Also for your theory, I thought the same thing too. That the AI will be the villain and that the beam may have been a transporter beam. Are they dead? LD is not beyond killing people off, but also no one is ever truly dead in Star Trek.
Hello Jesse been a long time sorry I haven't been coming to your live streams I've been very busy I just saw the first two episodes of the Lower Deck season 4 I love this first one it's kind of like a salute to Voyager and one of their more unique episodes but it was awesome
I think that the Tuvix's all turning into a meatball was interesting because the plants DNA that causes fusion is still in Tuvix, so if he transported with say Janeway, would he absorb her too?
This episode and S4 E2 "I Have No Bones Yet I Must Flee" dropped at the same time. I was tempted to hold back on watching S4 E2 until later in the week, to space the episodes out (so to speak), but I weakened and watched both back-to-back. I wish we got 20 episodes per season instead of just 10, and am hoping that Prodigy gets picked up by somebody soon.
Sure, the episode didn't need a voyager crew cameo at all, but it would have been delightful to have Robert Picardo play an EMH tourguide n the ship, playing character for the Doctor, just thrilled to be talking about such a monumentally important figure for EMHs. Not just a Starfleet hero, but also a leading figure in hologram/AI rights.
I think the ship is going to be Badgie. He's never been the central antagonist, but he's always played a part in every season as a major threat, even in Season 3 as the Texas AI is a Badgie AI. That and Badgie got scooped up in that end scene in S3
It's Tu(vix) soon... I spent a good chunk of the episode trying to figure out how they'd deal with the ethics of the Tuvix situation, and to be honest it feels a bit lazy that they took the ethics out of it. I don't think I would have wanted Lower Decks to try to have the ethical debate, but it is interesting how they swerved around it. Also, in retrospect, you're right about Ransom. It's cool that he's getting so much more development, especially with episode 2.
She murdered an innocent person to get her freinds back. No, friend considering she was going to leave Nealix trapped in an iron lung and suicidal rather than kill the "innocent " Videan who got his lungs. She treated Tuvix as if he was the accident instead of being born of an accident and thus with no rights that people have.
The writers did wrong! Tuvix was a far more interesting character than Neelix, who was annoying, and Tuvok who was just kinda boring. Tuvix was a far more dynamic character by comparison; they shoulda kept him.
At last someone else sees the sense! As Spok himself said "the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few, or the one" To NOT separate them would have killed two instead of one.
As captain, Janeway’s first duty and responsibility was to the safety of her crew. Once they figured out a solution, there was really no other choice for Janeway but to have Tuvix separated.
THANKS for this!!!! The Tuvix dilemma is not one for me. Janeway did the right thing: Tuvok and Neelix deserved to keep their individual self-determination. Tuvix was an accident that got corrected. (Thanks for the alternative cloning idea, though.)The needs of the many.
As always, excellent video! I don't think that there is a show that quite combines Star Trek values and love for the franchise without taking nostalgia to an unhealthy level. This episode and the second episode are a great start to the new season. Lower Decks, Lower Decks!!
I'm happy that our Lower Deckers are getting promoted, and getting their own rooms, and I hope T'Lyn will become a permanent main character. By the way, is deleting Frances Sullivan (Michael Sullivan wife) can be considered murdered?
Lol I was watching this episode and legit thought "Jessie is gonna like this" when they got promoted. I'm happy about the change too. Tbh they all deserved promotions a lot earlier :)
The premiere was awesome, and even addressed one of the TrekCore blog rants, (I was Chimera on there) on Tuvix, Twovix. Voyager is back, ha, sort of. It's a cute homage to the Voyager stories. It's also mocking the Tuvix story in a creative way. They actually did the blog rant in 22 minutes. The real one went on for days.
I love that in Trek captains never look up the technobabble solutions from 3 seasons ago to solve a present problem, then the one time captain Freeman tries to look up a past solution to a present problem it's the legendary "worst solution of all time".
The multiple fusions were hilarious. I'm glad they addressed the Tuvix controversy in a fair way. I hope in season 2 of Prodigy we get to see Janeway reflect on it. The parts with the holograms on Voyager were so fun and also the borgified salamander robots. Great call backs to some of the best and worst of Voyager. The promotion scene at the end was great. Really enjoying the Tendi and T'lyn dynamic, reminds me a little of Kirk and Spock.
Didn't that ship at the end reminded you on Romulan drone ship from ST: Enterprise - Maurader? Aenar arc in the last season. It seems to me that somebody got their hands on it. And it seems to be season arc of the show, based on episode 4x2. It could be AI or somebody else.
I'm getting so many The-One-With-The-Whales hints here. Season IV, the Chocolate Log, the ship at the end tilted forward like the whales, and looked a bit dolphiny...
I was thinking about the naming of the characters and I want to see how Vulcans handle transition by trading a the 'ek' or 'ok' at the end of their name and the T' at the beginning. LD finally making the "Voyager IS a museum on the grounds of the Presidio" true after PIC had it in the spaceborne Fleet Museum. I agree that the Shaxs/Barnes and Freeman/Miglimo combos were hot. I'm glad Mariner pointed out that the Clown shouldn't have been in the holodeck's memory. I thought the same thing the moment he appeared. Enjoying them advancing the characters and then adding more ensigns to make up the crew. Mystery ship looks so much like a Firespray from Star Wars to me.
Holup - does the virgin Billups having merged with the most-definitely sexually active T'ana count as 'losing his virginity', meaning he must now take the throne...?
can we take a moment to appreciate an almost throw-away line from Ransom? when he's telling Mariner that he saw how she helped Boimlern he says, "did you know Voyager is full of cameras?" ... one might think "security cameras." it's TV cameras - Paramount Studios... TV cameras. ... i love that line so much. 💝
Yes. I'm surprised he is so fine with being on Voyager's deck. I'm convinced he is related to the Captain of the Equinox, also named Ransom and also blond & white. I was really sorry for that Captain, he had to do unspeakable things to save his crew, treated the crew like family and some still muteneered.
I'm just going to apologise in advance for this one but the speculation on an ai / holoship threat at the end immediately had my brain supplying: "Mr Rimmer! Sir they've taken Mr Rimmer!" "Quick, let's get out of here before they bring him back!" As always with Lower Decks they do a heck of a good job with their out and out nostalgia episodes and actually turn in a good show not just fanservice. My only slight gripe is that between Picard and Lower Decks we've now seen so many of the classic ships get a chance in a modern spotlight that the refit movie Enterprise is waaaaaay overdue for its time in the spotlight. We know the A is at the fleet museum so, come on, surely it's time for some good old fashioned ship stealing?
Back to my ritual of watching your reviews right after I finish the episodes. Good catch on the Harry Kim/promotion angle. That hadn't occurred to me. I *think* I saw the crew disappear a split-second before we saw the ship destroyed. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'd be bummed if they'd died. I only did a short stint in the US Navy, but my experience is that XO's IRL are the designated asshole of the ship. They're the extremely by-the-book, whip-them-into-shape guys. Actually, Riker's treatment of Ro is somewhat in line with that. With that said, I prefer the portrayal of Ransom, and maybe we'll see some development out of him this season.
While I love that this episode gave a subtle nod to Harry Kim by promoting a bunch of characters as you said, I am exasperated by the fact that no new Trek had brought Garrett Wang on to reprise his role as of yet. It’s a tragedy that he, as a real fan himself, and with his character having so much future potential, hasn’t had the opportunity to join any of these new shows, even as a single episode guest star.
I had similar thoughts about the two ships that got destroyed. My thoughts are there still alive but being held in captivity. I really liked the Captain Proton stuff here's to us one day getting a full Star Trek spin-off show of a show. Fusion OCs are the best and they all looked really cool save for the last one thank goodness everyone was ok at the end.
they could have beamed in extra biomass or fed additonal energy to the buffer and then used that to beam out Tuvok and Neelix's patterns but voyager was always energy starved. it was interesting to me that T'lyn always seemed to be wearing an amused/bemused expression on her face. Also Ransom is geting some good screen time so far and is showing he is a bit more then a meathed, his little fistbump with Kayshon was great. the sound of the alien ships weapon sounded very much like a digitizer weapon....i am wondering if the crew of the che'tah got digitized.
Boimler and Rutherford are great too. Boimler reminds me of an old music professor I had in college. Same last name. Hyperactive. A composer should be kind of hyper.
I love that the episode is like "holy shit, Janeway straight up murdered that guy!" Ans then realizes they gotta write there way out of this, really good stuff!
I literally never thought of this till now (and it may be mentioned in the Tuvix episode) but: Wasn't a plant responsible for splitting Kirk into his 'Agressive' and 'Passive' halves in the Original Series (or was it some kind of mineral? Time to hit Wikis, I guess 😅) Also, your Third Solution to Tuvix is the best: SOMEBODY was gonna get Kilt (because Janeway 😅), but at least you get back the originals and the merged form.
The scene where Shaxs asks T'Illups what physical memories they have is even funnier if you think about the fact that Billups is asexual and a virgin and has been merged with T'Ana who... has done some things with Shaxs. The part of T'Illups that was Billups must be very disturbed.
Layered jokes that are WHY I love this show
even more so with that we see in the next episode.
There's so many different kind of asexuals, including many who don't feel "disturbed" by the idea of sex & are more just "meh" about it. Billips struck me as the "meh" kind since it isn't even the sex itself he cares about. It's whether his mom can bully him into losing his virginity & due to odd cultural customs, it ending his career as an engineer, which is his dream. Who knows what Billips would be like if this factor was removed. (Edited to add: I phrased that last sentence poorly & can just leave it off)
I really liked the acknowledgement of Janeway murdering Tuvix was followed immediately by "we're not trapped in the Delta Quadrant." They have way more expertise at their disposal for handling this, and plan to use it!
It all goes to hell because T'illups is understandably freaked out after reading what happened to Tuvix, but that doesn't negate them acting like intelligent people.
Yeah but voyager is still bound to Starfleet code and Federation laws.
@@weshurst4895 Which they'd deal with in however many years and/or decades it took for them to get home. Right now, they needed their people back. The whole reason it was a hard decision is because time and circumstances put their backs to the wall...
I think the episode brought up an important point with the whole “we’re not lost in the delta quadrant” point. They’ve got flexibility and resources that Janeway didn’t. I thought they also did a good job of addressing the Twovix question while also telling their own story.
My one bad point about the episode was Captain Doctor Freeglimoo's reaction to being merged for this very reason. Freeman was all like 'We're not in the Delta Quadrant, we have resources, we can figure this out!' but then the moment she got merged, she did a 180 and was enthusiastically going after the senior crew to merge?
I would have expected more resistance to T'Illups' plan.
@@nihtgengalastnamegoeshere7526 It suggests either something about Miglimoo's belief, or about the orchid hybrids themselves. Perhaps they have a very strong preservation instinct, and even the small risk that Starfleet would still kill them was enough.
Still, you'd think they'd have qualms about the fact that every merger kills two lives to make one new one.
"WHAT ARE WE GUNNAA DO!?"
"Well we have a whole starfleet of geniuses, someone would figure out something."
We're in the Delta Quadrant, so I can commit murder.
I love little masks slip from Mariner when she sees Voyager, she just as excited as the rest of the gang (maybe even more excited than the rest). With standard Mariner redirection "Boimler gonna flip" after that.
"It's VOY! " was the best line, I love it
Mariner is AS big as a nerd as the rest of them
The "I miss my wife" line genuinely made me scream!
The way they handled Voyager felt very grounded and real to me. Janeway is a high ranking officer who’s still active in Starfleet and is off doing her own thing. I think it would have actually been less believable for her to appear. The curator was perfect.
Jerry O'Connell deserves more praise.
I like the answer for Janeway's action which both sides could understand. She was in the Delta quadrant with limited resources and had to make tough decisions either way
true but like....it was still murder of an innocent man the idea that she was promoted after that is insane........but then again riker did kill his clone in that racist irish episode
Cool excuse still murder
Voyager was always my absolute favourite Star Trek show, but hot damn
I didn't expect I'd cry at the mere sight of Voyager parked on earth
She had a long road, getting from there to here... ;)
It doesn’t help that the Voyager theme is one of the most beautiful compositions ever
Jessie is always noticeably happier when it's Lower Decks season. For good reason too as I also enjoy the show.
Loved the reference to "the Pike thing we're not supposed to talk about"!
One thing that caught my eye was the view of the Klingon bridge when the ship was being destroyed. Reminded me of the destruction of the third Klingon ship at the beginning of Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
My prediction for this season, T’lin isn’t Vulcan. She’s a spy, similar to the ambassador from TNG that turned out to be Romulan. So I think either she’s Romulan, or Possibly Cardasian. At one point she says “High Command will not be happy”. That ain’t a Vulcan thing to do! Later in the episode she references the High Council instead. A slip of the tongue in the heat of the moment, maybe but not very logical. I may be wrong, but I wanted to put it in writing somewhere, in case I’m not.
I am obssessed with Captain Frigleeman. Also, its cool to see Bomler and Rutherford have a display in the Voyager museum, tying them to the story of the ship is great and its funny to consider that display existing in Picard
I have to wonder if the spy stuff is a hint to the season finale
Excuse you, Captain _Doctor_ Frigleeman 😛
My first Tuvix thought is that Tom Wright killed it. Came in cold, and nailed a performance that made us care that Tuvix was murdered. Regardless of anything else, I’ve got to respect the actor.
My ethically dubious solution: a coin toss. Heads is Tuvix, tails is Neelix and Tuvok.
Would Janeway have done anything else other than bring back Tuvok? No. She started this whole mission to rescue him, she went back in time at the end to save him from a degenerative mental condition. Janeway’s loyalty to Tuvok is boundless.
Also, Tuvok had a family, and Neelix was in a relationship with Kes. Both men were needed in different places by different people.
*Flips coin*
Edge
.... yeah, that tracks with the sort of day we're having.
@@MariaMartinez-researcherJaneway should have just talked to Tuvix and said this! Instead of just murdering him! It would be better if she talked to him and then he willingly sacrifice himself so Neelix And Tuvoc can live! Besides they never reviseted or discussed Tuvix later
The scene of him begging for his life and no one lifting a finger for him breaks my heart every time I see it
@@MariaMartinez-researcher Kes did not need nelix at all. Both their characters improved when they stopped seeing each other.
I'm very happy to see our favourite Orion is now a Lieutenant! :D eeing those fusions was fun to see, it's like a guessing game, guess who fused with who!
The noises I made when the Voyager theme played. I was a little disappointed they didn’t have one of Voyager’s guest star but seeing the Cerritos crew deal with Voyager’s unique chaos made up for it. God so much weird shit happen on that ship.
This episode was utterly fantastic in so many ways and you listed all of them.
And don't worry, you're far from alone in finding the Freeman/Migleemo hybrid as hot.
Glad I wasn’t the only one 😅
There was some furry awakenings this episode.
Give it about two weeks and the furry fandom will have you covered.
@@CrystalBearer20Not weird, the Furry Fandom have been conected to Star Trek since M'Ress
@@rommdan2716 People watched TAS? I don't believe you.
The enemy unknown ship gives star trek online iconian ship vibes
Would be neat for Lower Decks to do a story on the Iconians, even canonizing them on screen
I always thought that Mariner's Big Trouble is that she has a bizarre, irrational fear of being in an official leadership position, and all of her biggest failures and worst behavior comes from intentionally or unintentionally taking actions to prevent that status. What do we think about this? I hope we can find out why she's like that.
Dont know if you saw it but in addition to the whale probe they also added a breen ship chasing a klingon bird of prey to the battle sequence :)
I thought so but could not identify the ship.
RIP Tuvix, T'lliups, Captain Doctor Migleeman, Sharnes, Lundus, and Swhalens
Best solution I can think of would be to tranquilize Tuvix, then create a transporter doppelganger, and randomly select one to be split into the component characters. Still morally dubious, but this way the doppelganger is spared the trauma of knowing they will be murdered.
Also If Chapel can survive a ship being blown in half, the Klingon Captain has a chance.
Janeway could have duplicated and then split in a single sequence too, with no intermediary rematerialization step.
You matter, until you energy... 😜
Kind of similar to how Scotty kept himself in the pattern buffer on the surface of that Dyson sphere. Satisfying solution to the 'ship of theseus' dilemma that Tuvix partially represents. 🤔😳😛
But given how there have only been ONE time that a transporter clone was made through EXTREME circumstances that likely aren't easily replicated, it's no surprise "just making a copy and picking one of them split" wasn't on the list of solutions given the time and energy it would've taken to try to successfully make a copy. And that without the possibility of a similar planet/moon being held by a species that doesn't like outsiders.
The Voyager museum thing ties into her fate in the alternate future of Endgame, too! "Voyager is a museum, on the grounds of the Presidio." Presumably in right the same place she's going to now.
I'm still not clear why Voyager actually NEEDED to be decommissioned. Was it a Galactica situation, where years of constant wear and tear took a toll? Or was it being torn apart to reverse-engineer the advances it incorporated? Seven years seems like a very short lifespan for a starship.
Honestly? Probably a bit of both.
I think it's a PR thing. As fun as they are for us viewers, the average Federation person doesn't give a shit about a ship like the Cerritos. But a ship like Voyager, it had an epic adventure on the other side of the galaxy, it'd fire up people's imaginations. So turning it into a museum where people can visit and be inspired to want to join Starfleet and have adventures, or just support the existence and mission of Starfleet in a general sense probably does more to help Starfleet than just having one more Intrepid class in the fleet.
While Seven wasn't a mole for the Collective, she did upgrade the ship in places with Borg-based technology and software. I can see Starfleet quarantining Voyager for that alone, along with studying every self-sealing stem bolt in and every inch of the spaceframe for stress fractures and other issues that cropped up from 7 years of no maintenance from a Starfleet shipyard or spacedock.
The "Twovix" pun alone deserves an award. I'd love to have seen the writer's room after someone came up with that gem. Was sort of disappointed they took the coward's way out of the Tuvix problem though! The plot was decided in just such a way that there was no real choice.
Tuvix = moral kobayashi maru
Maybe Rutherford not getting promoted was the nod to 'Ensign Kim' never getting promoted. Thoughtful/fun review, as always!
This episode was great. I enjoyed T’lyn, them paying homage to some iconic voyager episodes, and the character development.
In addition to the changes to the opening theme animation, they also snuck the Great Koala of the Universe into the Star Trek chevron splash roll before each episode.
I love how the writers didn't sit on the fence on Tuvix and tell us on two separate occasions that he was straight up murdered but also build on the thought experiment by giving us someone who is actually a threat this time. I wonder how many people who think Tuvix was murdered are somewhat more accepting on separating hybrids who, despite being their own persons, are now also endangering people.
I do love their get-out-of-jail solution by having T'Lynn forced to merge everyone together so as to become a nonsentient blob of meat making the arguments over the rights of an individual completely moot.
I had a big smile this whole episode! Seeing Voyager and hearing the theme again was great!
Also, this might be really offensive of me to say, but is it possible that T'lyn is a Romulan spy of some sort? Her talking about how easy Starfleet security is to bypass, along with the references to Romulan spies and all. I'm probably just grasping at straws though
I actually think it was a missed opportunity. I would have loved Robert Picardo to be the museum curator character.
"I'd have thought you'd want to work anywhere but here."
"It's more of a volunteering situation than a career, ensign. I enjoy telling the stories."
@@Chiscringle like a "Living Witness" of sorts? (One of my favorite episodes and the closest we got to Mirror Mirror Voy)
😭👍
Oh that would have been *rad!*
I just watched them online (I'm Spanish) and I loved the episodes. And yes, Tendi and T'lynn have an excellent chemistry (classical, but excellent for comedy). They remind me a bit of Adam Savage and Jimie Hyneman in Mythbusters.
I also loved how Ransom referred to Shax as "amigo" ("friend" in Spanish)
Thank, now I'm picturing a Star Trek Mythbuster show.
@@Woodclaw"The Myth says that borgs cannot adapt to kinetic weaponry!"
Did you also enjoy how the villain last season was 'Admiral Buenamigo' ("good friend")?
@@ScottLuvsRenFairesThat was a good pun.
The deaths of the Klingons feels like the slaughter of the _Solvang_ to me - shocking, but when you try to articulate exactly why it's shocking, it's hard to nail down. There's no cast iron reason why characters of that ilk shouldn't be allowed to be killed off, except that they seemed to go into a different box. They're recurring comic relief, our expectation is set from our previous encounter with them that if we see them again, it'll be in a lighthearted and whimsical way - being strict about not letting shoes touch the carpet, extolling the virtues of honourable combat - they feel like they should be off limits for killing.
They didn't feel any pain, and gave their lives defending the borders of the Klingon Empire. Perhaps not the most honorable deaths, but there is still a sliver of honor to be had.
I don't think the crews are dead. There were no bodies or body parts floating around after the explosions, as there should have been. We see a Romulan commander's chair and a Klingon blood wine barrel floating around, but no bodies, that is suspicious to me. I've seen crash sites of planes on tv and there are always at least pieces of bodies.
I really need a parody of TH-cam Debates between Jessie and Steve Shives where they debate what the best modern season is.
So much fun seeing T'lyn return for more than a cameo. Shame she wasn't in the second episode. I'm less familiar with Voyager and DS9 than I am other series, so a lot of stuff was probably lost on me.
They also added a Breen ship to the star ship battle!
Neat how Lower Decks made a new enemy out of a story beat from a Legacy 1990s Trek.
Just like the Pakleds
Now there are "Hybrids" two personalities merged to one.
Really glad these episodes introduced some status quo changes. Also the "mystery threat" reminds me of a smoothed out time ship from TNG's A Matter of Time.
It looked like a Firespray from Star Wars to me.
It’s gotta be peanut hamper and Agamus taking out all those ships, with badgy acting as the main weapons control. The question remains, how the heck did they escape the daystrom institute?!? Also, when that klingon captain got blown up I was so upset!
Love your enthusiasm when you review these shows!! Thank you so much - I always look forward your reviews!!
We saw the ensigns be ensigns for three years it was time for them to get promoted. I’m super glad.
Where's Harry Kim?
T'Lin and Tendi are great, but Tendi always has been great, and reminds me so much of someone from the Starship Locations series.
The pairing is growing on me.
I love that we get to see Boimler's Number One poster!
"Was the Freeman combination-" THANK YOU! I'm glad I'm not the only one!
The voyager digs, I gotta say
Never expected a Lower Decks episode ghost written by Steve
Great episode. Also love the irony of someone who supposedly knows voyager history not knowing why expanding the holodeck might not be a great idea.
We debate about the Tuvix situation with Janeway, but we do not debate nearly enough about the Sim situation with regards to Archer. If Janeway murdered Tuvix, Archer definitely murdered Sim. Justice for Sim.
10:20 You don't make a second copy at ALL. Just set up the transporters to separate the 3 of them.
Energize Tuvix, then in the pattern buffer separate the patterns to 3 lifeforms.
But LD changed the whole idea of this group of "hybrids" who attacked the crew.
Tuvix was a victim, these hybrids are aggressors
They were aggressors because they knew they had to defend themselves in order to survive, which, alas, made it more acceptable that they did not. Kinda sorta.
@Yibambe. Lower Decks kind of did my idea in the end with Tendi separating in the computer
Yes, Peanut Hamper does appear in Starship Locations, in a Kirk spacesuit body.
Shax's question to T'illups is even funnier considering the tradition from Billups' home planet. Would that automatically make T'illups Hysperian royalty?
I'm imagining his mother's reaction. "Are you saying we could have had a CATGIRL QUEEN?! I must get a sample of this orchid. For ... growing in the royal garden. Yesssss...."
I would love to see Billups's mom trying to sue Star Fleet for robbing her of a new monarch, arguing in court that being genetically merged with another being qualifies for "sexual congress". "But your honor, Billups and T'Ana were joined as one, and from these ancient writings, poets have often used such language..."
The fun is I am just rewatching Voyger these days. Actually, I have never seen the first seasons. I have seen the Tuvix or the Clown/Fear episodes recently. Which is great because otherwise I would not have enjoyed this episode as much as I have.
Relatable Vulcan learning to accept emotions, where have I heard this before OTHER than Spock???
🎵 It's been a long road, getting from there to here... 🎶
T'Pol, at least in Enterprise seasons 3 & 4.
T'Pol, despite some awkward writing and costuming (Let T'Pol wear the Starfleet jumpsuit in the prime timeline you cowards), is genuinely one of my favourite Trek characters of all time, cuz you could feel her growth throughout the series
@@CodeAndGinshe looked so good in the two times she wore a real uniform too
HUGE fan of Lower Decks too and your commentary of the premiere episode. So excited for this new season.
I love how LD is not afraid to upset the status quo, exploring new dynamics with characters in new situations, love character growth, and love the development of Ransom, that he isn't just a meathead, but an actual good officer. I've done Boimer for cosplay but may start doing Ransom. I have the beard after all. lol
Also for your theory, I thought the same thing too. That the AI will be the villain and that the beam may have been a transporter beam. Are they dead? LD is not beyond killing people off, but also no one is ever truly dead in Star Trek.
Hello Jesse been a long time sorry I haven't been coming to your live streams I've been very busy I just saw the first two episodes of the Lower Deck season 4 I love this first one it's kind of like a salute to Voyager and one of their more unique episodes but it was awesome
Jessie, the hair is ON POINT!
I was kinda waiting for the blob to make an outright 'Akira' reference in this episode. Or maybe Playdead's 'Inside' video game. 😎
I think that the Tuvix's all turning into a meatball was interesting because the plants DNA that causes fusion is still in Tuvix, so if he transported with say Janeway, would he absorb her too?
What a way to kickoff the season! I love how the characters keep growing. So many Easter eggs! So much fun! Errr I love this show! 🖖
This episode and S4 E2 "I Have No Bones Yet I Must Flee" dropped at the same time. I was tempted to hold back on watching S4 E2 until later in the week, to space the episodes out (so to speak), but I weakened and watched both back-to-back. I wish we got 20 episodes per season instead of just 10, and am hoping that Prodigy gets picked up by somebody soon.
I was sorry they bumped off the Klingon version of Boimler.
Sure, the episode didn't need a voyager crew cameo at all, but it would have been delightful to have Robert Picardo play an EMH tourguide n the ship, playing character for the Doctor, just thrilled to be talking about such a monumentally important figure for EMHs. Not just a Starfleet hero, but also a leading figure in hologram/AI rights.
So that means T'Lyn mass murdered the Twovixes by turning them into a non-sentient meatball...
I think the ship is going to be Badgie. He's never been the central antagonist, but he's always played a part in every season as a major threat, even in Season 3 as the Texas AI is a Badgie AI. That and Badgie got scooped up in that end scene in S3
It's Tu(vix) soon...
I spent a good chunk of the episode trying to figure out how they'd deal with the ethics of the Tuvix situation, and to be honest it feels a bit lazy that they took the ethics out of it. I don't think I would have wanted Lower Decks to try to have the ethical debate, but it is interesting how they swerved around it.
Also, in retrospect, you're right about Ransom. It's cool that he's getting so much more development, especially with episode 2.
I think they did point out the ethics, but then had the same dilemma taken out of their hands. Because, really, what is the right thing to do?
I said it before, I'll say it again. Captain Janeway did nothing wrong.
She murdered an innocent person to get her freinds back. No, friend considering she was going to leave Nealix trapped in an iron lung and suicidal rather than kill the "innocent " Videan who got his lungs. She treated Tuvix as if he was the accident instead of being born of an accident and thus with no rights that people have.
The writers did wrong! Tuvix was a far more interesting character than Neelix, who was annoying, and Tuvok who was just kinda boring. Tuvix was a far more dynamic character by comparison; they shoulda kept him.
At last someone else sees the sense!
As Spok himself said "the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few, or the one"
To NOT separate them would have killed two instead of one.
As captain, Janeway’s first duty and responsibility was to the safety of her crew. Once they figured out a solution, there was really no other choice for Janeway but to have Tuvix separated.
@@panthershadowwalkThey weren't alive after the accident which created Tuvix. Janeway killed Tuvix.
I'm calling the mystery threat is dark boimler.
Oh, I forgot he existed. Not a Section 31 ship though...
I think it’s an alliance of William Boimler and Badgey
THANKS for this!!!! The Tuvix dilemma is not one for me. Janeway did the right thing: Tuvok and Neelix deserved to keep their individual self-determination. Tuvix was an accident that got corrected. (Thanks for the alternative cloning idea, though.)The needs of the many.
Do koalas and whales get along? Is there are a koala probe out there somewhere? 🐨🐋
As always, excellent video!
I don't think that there is a show that quite combines Star Trek values and love for the franchise without taking nostalgia to an unhealthy level. This episode and the second episode are a great start to the new season. Lower Decks, Lower Decks!!
yesss my favorite starfluencer informed me about star news trek again
I'm happy that our Lower Deckers are getting promoted, and getting their own rooms, and I hope T'Lyn will become a permanent main character.
By the way, is deleting Frances Sullivan (Michael Sullivan wife) can be considered murdered?
Not unless Frances is sentient, which Holodeck characters are typically not.
@@ffreed Vic Fontayne was.
But anyway, you have a point.
"(sigh) I miss my wife!" 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@Donnagata1409 I thought of Vic when I wrote that. There are exceptions, which is why I included the word “typically”. :)
Lol I was watching this episode and legit thought "Jessie is gonna like this" when they got promoted. I'm happy about the change too. Tbh they all deserved promotions a lot earlier :)
The 'cop-out' is the ONLY way that the situation could have worked out,
I was so worried they would reset to status quo like with the delta shifters, but thankfully they kept the change.
The premiere was awesome, and even addressed one of the TrekCore blog rants, (I was Chimera on there) on Tuvix, Twovix. Voyager is back, ha, sort of. It's a cute homage to the Voyager stories. It's also mocking the Tuvix story in a creative way. They actually did the blog rant in 22 minutes. The real one went on for days.
I love that in Trek captains never look up the technobabble solutions from 3 seasons ago to solve a present problem, then the one time captain Freeman tries to look up a past solution to a present problem it's the legendary "worst solution of all time".
The multiple fusions were hilarious. I'm glad they addressed the Tuvix controversy in a fair way. I hope in season 2 of Prodigy we get to see Janeway reflect on it. The parts with the holograms on Voyager were so fun and also the borgified salamander robots. Great call backs to some of the best and worst of Voyager. The promotion scene at the end was great. Really enjoying the Tendi and T'lyn dynamic, reminds me a little of Kirk and Spock.
I am shocked nobody talks about the koala in the intro!
The next episode might pique your interest then
Didn't that ship at the end reminded you on Romulan drone ship from ST: Enterprise - Maurader? Aenar arc in the last season. It seems to me that somebody got their hands on it. And it seems to be season arc of the show, based on episode 4x2. It could be AI or somebody else.
My best friend and I were watching the premier and she literally goes "wait for it, why is the Freeman /Miglemo combination so hot?"
I'm getting so many The-One-With-The-Whales hints here. Season IV, the Chocolate Log, the ship at the end tilted forward like the whales, and looked a bit dolphiny...
Tuvix is the new trolly problem. 😂😂😂
Very true.
I was thinking about the naming of the characters and I want to see how Vulcans handle transition by trading a the 'ek' or 'ok' at the end of their name and the T' at the beginning.
LD finally making the "Voyager IS a museum on the grounds of the Presidio" true after PIC had it in the spaceborne Fleet Museum.
I agree that the Shaxs/Barnes and Freeman/Miglimo combos were hot.
I'm glad Mariner pointed out that the Clown shouldn't have been in the holodeck's memory. I thought the same thing the moment he appeared.
Enjoying them advancing the characters and then adding more ensigns to make up the crew.
Mystery ship looks so much like a Firespray from Star Wars to me.
I guess Tuvok is almost a gender neutral Vulcan name. Could just change it to T’Uvok lol
@@kaitlyn__L Headcanon that T'Uvok is nonbinary accepted.
LOVING your new hair cut and style! Looks GORGEOUS!
there is also a breen ship in the opening credits battle scene. who else spotted it?
Holup - does the virgin Billups having merged with the most-definitely sexually active T'ana count as 'losing his virginity', meaning he must now take the throne...?
can we take a moment to appreciate an almost throw-away line from Ransom? when he's telling Mariner that he saw how she helped Boimlern he says, "did you know Voyager is full of cameras?" ... one might think "security cameras." it's TV cameras - Paramount Studios... TV cameras. ... i love that line so much. 💝
Hard agree. Captain Freeman’s combo was super hot.
I kept thinking "did they make this for Jessie specifically?"
Ransom really seems like a solid commanding officer when he needs to be.
Yes. I'm surprised he is so fine with being on Voyager's deck. I'm convinced he is related to the Captain of the Equinox, also named Ransom and also blond & white. I was really sorry for that Captain, he had to do unspeakable things to save his crew, treated the crew like family and some still muteneered.
I'm just going to apologise in advance for this one but the speculation on an ai / holoship threat at the end immediately had my brain supplying: "Mr Rimmer! Sir they've taken Mr Rimmer!" "Quick, let's get out of here before they bring him back!" As always with Lower Decks they do a heck of a good job with their out and out nostalgia episodes and actually turn in a good show not just fanservice. My only slight gripe is that between Picard and Lower Decks we've now seen so many of the classic ships get a chance in a modern spotlight that the refit movie Enterprise is waaaaaay overdue for its time in the spotlight. We know the A is at the fleet museum so, come on, surely it's time for some good old fashioned ship stealing?
As a huge Voyager fan, this has to be one of my favorite episodes of Lower Decks!
Same! I couldn't stop grinning! 😅🌌👏🏻🖖🏻
Back to my ritual of watching your reviews right after I finish the episodes.
Good catch on the Harry Kim/promotion angle. That hadn't occurred to me.
I *think* I saw the crew disappear a split-second before we saw the ship destroyed. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'd be bummed if they'd died.
I only did a short stint in the US Navy, but my experience is that XO's IRL are the designated asshole of the ship. They're the extremely by-the-book, whip-them-into-shape guys. Actually, Riker's treatment of Ro is somewhat in line with that. With that said, I prefer the portrayal of Ransom, and maybe we'll see some development out of him this season.
While I love that this episode gave a subtle nod to Harry Kim by promoting a bunch of characters as you said, I am exasperated by the fact that no new Trek had brought Garrett Wang on to reprise his role as of yet. It’s a tragedy that he, as a real fan himself, and with his character having so much future potential, hasn’t had the opportunity to join any of these new shows, even as a single episode guest star.
This is indeed a crying injustice.
I had similar thoughts about the two ships that got destroyed. My thoughts are there still alive but being held in captivity. I really liked the Captain Proton stuff here's to us one day getting a full Star Trek spin-off show of a show. Fusion OCs are the best and they all looked really cool save for the last one thank goodness everyone was ok at the end.
they could have beamed in extra biomass or fed additonal energy to the buffer and then used that to beam out Tuvok and Neelix's patterns but voyager was always energy starved. it was interesting to me that T'lyn always seemed to be wearing an amused/bemused expression on her face. Also Ransom is geting some good screen time so far and is showing he is a bit more then a meathed, his little fistbump with Kayshon was great. the sound of the alien ships weapon sounded very much like a digitizer weapon....i am wondering if the crew of the che'tah got digitized.
I wonder if Billip's mom is going to use the fusion with the very not-virgin T'ana as an excuse to try and make him king
That popped in my head too. Then they could do an homage to the Trek court case type of episodes!
Boimler and Rutherford are great too. Boimler reminds me of an old music professor I had in college. Same last name. Hyperactive. A composer should be kind of hyper.
I love that the episode is like "holy shit, Janeway straight up murdered that guy!" Ans then realizes they gotta write there way out of this, really good stuff!
I really hope that Jet will be added to gang. Jet is a cool head person that the group needs.🤞
I literally never thought of this till now (and it may be mentioned in the Tuvix episode) but: Wasn't a plant responsible for splitting Kirk into his 'Agressive' and 'Passive' halves in the Original Series (or was it some kind of mineral? Time to hit Wikis, I guess 😅)
Also, your Third Solution to Tuvix is the best: SOMEBODY was gonna get Kilt (because Janeway 😅), but at least you get back the originals and the merged form.
It’s a mineral, one that looks identical to powdered sulphur
@@kaitlyn__L They sulphured a lot :)