Hay Lindsay, I always wanted to study archeology but lacked the achievement skills for it I love your channel, your videos are always interesting, down to earth and easy to understand. I love your shorts, thank you for all your hard work.
me: "hahah wow why is that one chimp named satan that's so funny" lindsay, 20 minutes later: "satan was seen DRINKING BLOOD from his victim' face" me: "well. now i know"
The question is, was he named like that already before that observation? If so, he might have already done other things that humans see as evil. Or maybe he just looked like he has horns 🥸
@sp00n My guess is that most of chimp without unique physical appearance or unique behavior just labeled as chimp 1, chimp 2, etc. Most scientific research publications did put any name in the research object. Thus, mostlikely most name is given retrospectively for easier identifying for non researchers.
Genocide implies the eradication of a separate group, which would make sense for rival groups intentionally killing ALL the members of a rival clan. But that's not what happened here. This was a singular group having a political breakdown and splitting into factions. This was a succession crisis or civil war.
That was one brilliant piece of scientific journalism if I ever saw one. Extremelly well researched and presented. Truly fantastic, this is what every scientific communicator should aspire to. Thank you SciShow and Lindsay Nikole.
I appreciate how Lindsay dialed it back a bit, to more fit the style of SciShow, but her punchy and dry delivery is one of my favorite parts of her videos. The well researched information is why I love both channels, and this was an absolutely PHENOMENAL colab!!! Thanks everyone!
When she used air quotes to belittle alpha male humans....cringiest thing on TH-cam. Everyone in the comments was saying the same thing about how cringe feminists are that they don't even realize how big of a hypocrite they're being. Secondhand embarrassing
A secondary horror to the Gombe War, and the general study of the chimpanzees at the time, was that Jane Goodall was harshly criticised by other experts in the field for giving the chimps names, describing their personalities (it was thought chimps didn't have that 'higher thinking' to have personalities) and setting up the feeding stations. They accused her of CAUSING the Gombe War! Imagine spending all that time dedicated to the study of a group of animals with an equally passionate team and witnessing a ground breaking yet horrific turn of events only to be met with fellow researchers telling you that it was entirely your fault the 'war' happened that caused all those chimps to die. Thankfully further research has shown that no, Jane Goodall was not the sole cause behind the gombe war, but I can only imagine how horrible it must have felt at the time especially when said research hadn't been conducted yet.
She caused it by overfeeding and therefore overpopulating the chimps. I was ashamed of her for not admitting that. And I realized it myself, never heard of anyone else saying until right now. They pushed it to support Reagans assertion that war is natural.
There's a reasonable argument that the excess energy the chimps got when they didn't need to work for food was released in the form of aggression, that would otherwise be spent on foraging or hunting.
@alliedatheistalliance6776 Yes, that is true but I believe as highlighted in the video it was not necessarily due to the presence of the bananas but rather the lack of females available for mating.
@ that may have helped, but I strongly maintain the endless food supply led to overpopulation ( shown in Goodals documentaries back then). Over population is the classic common cause of aggression. The mouse/rat experiment. They fed them plenty to keep thrm close to make it easier to study them.
This video goes SO HARD WTF!! The graphics, the detail, the interviews. You guys always do amazing work and I expect that but this is just blowing me out of the water!!! Incredible video guys thanks! This would be so hard to understand fully without all the little details!
This wasn't even the worst of it. Some specific actions were noticeably left out, which I will not detail here. Suffice it to say, it literally led researchers to ask if non-human animals could display characteristics of "evil" that is perform actions that are generally harmful for no discernible benefit to anyone.
I don't think it's anthropomorphic to call this behavior a "war". After all, ants engage in warfare too and they're extremely brutal. Why is hard to believe that our close relatives would engage in war just as we do?
while you make a good point, I believe the difference would be that ants, being in eusocial colonies, act more on instinct then chimpanzees that are more individual and smarter than ants, so they must also think of it like a 'war'
I'd say that since chimpanzees are our closest living relative species, it's more than likely that they experience the world more similar to humanity than any other extant eukaryotic animal species
I think it has more to do with meeting a couple of conditions. The activity must be sustained, and as we see the Gombe war lasted years, while one group of ants fighting another is usually a done deal afterward. Also, I think the idea of coordination is important. The chimps planned and organized their attacks, with what seems obvious intent. Ants, to go back to your example, will fight other ant hills in their area or that they come across, but not in a planned. organized manner. So I think you are correct, it is not at all anthropomorphic to call this a war. There seems to have been intention, coordination, and a sustained level of aggression toward the other group, which makes it a war IMO.
The Majingilani males went to war with Mapogos over in the Sabi Sands of Londolozi. Lions go to war when it's a new coalition of males intruding a territory. That's all a male lions life is, is war and hunting every day.
i remember hearing awhile ago that there were octopus going to war near the coast of australia using shells as weapon. never checked if it was real or not tho
"War" seems like a good description of what happens when rival groups fight over territory/ What happened in Gombe seems more like civil war against a secessionist group.
@mjbull5156 that's exactly what it was. It's like a family that splits up after grandpa dies. Grandpa was the glue that held the family together. Once he passed, war started.
I love the clip of dolphins while she says "Wild animals do lots of things that are completely natural, but that doesn't make them ethical." That's right dolphins, you know what you did.
I've always loved Lindsey's catchphrase. "That we know of" like it's a challenge. Go out and break down barriers and discover older, bigger, newer, smaller.
@@beastamer1990s This implies that finding humor in flatulence is either evolutionarily beneficial enough to evolve more than once or tied to some other beneficial trait and both are funny.
@@ninjalectualx Its just one of the things she says, often... along with her 'catch phrase', ie "That we know of"... It wouldnt be or feel like her without at least one 'Heinous' thrown in somewhere. And as a word it isnt that commonly used now days really so i wouldnt call it a normal word... more an uncommon one.
Chose a side. From the sound of things the chimps had rules regarding who got females. A 1v1 was required. Humphrey abided by that, but Hugh and Charlie didn't but got rewarded with females on their side anyway. So Humphrey decided to enforce the law.
@@bolbyballinger Nothing in the video actually states that the dominance hierarchy had much to do with who "got females". That's often our assumption in animal groups, but in this case it seems that the associated attention and grooming given to the alpha was from all members of the group, although of course with female chimps being generally on the bottom of the pecking order it makes sense that at least some of them would generally cleave to the group consensus on who's who and what's what in terms of leadership.
My high school history teacher still used one of those when he taught us a little over ten years ago. He was considered a dinosaur for it, but seeing Lindsay use one just reinforces to me how effective they can be when used right. Such a cool piece of "old school" technology
How light reflects from surfaces is natural to our eyes. Light shooting directly from like leds and the colours and shade being unnatural doesn't sit as well.
Last week, I just had a class in Uni where the modern projector refuse to connect to the laptop and had to move to another room when the technician couldn't fix it. Old school projectors are simple things, it's basically a box with a giant light and a mirror. There are very few things that could go wrong with them. That said, digital projectors do have more capabilities
Yea they know when something is truely dead... Based on the variation with length of attacks, with most surviving the inital confrontation to only succumb to wounds later
Are chimps capable of consistently displaying that kind of forethought? It makes way more sense to conclude that the patrolling chimps recognized their former friends, but didn't have the cognitive capacity to understand that this meant that they should treat them differently from stranger chimps that they encounter on patrol.
@@catatoblob8598most research would say they definitely have for thought, tho many things may be more innate to varying degrees too. Instinctual, hormonal, etc
I've been a long time viewer of SciShow, and I can NOT understate how wonderful it is to see Lindsay Nikole joining the team to talk about animal research and history! Not only a perfect choice, that we know of, but it would have been absolutely HEINOUS to choose anyone else! Thank you SciShow, and thank you Lindsay for ALL the research you share with us! Hope to see LOTS more of her on this channel!
I think it's also interesting to contrast chimp behaviour with that of bonobos. They are far more closely related to chimps than either are to us, but they behave (especially in terms of social interaction and group dynamics) very differently from both of us.
Sure about that? Ever notice the white race can never have their own area to live peacefully without having women tell us they need foreigners as well, undermining our success and progress for illegals, felons??
Bonobos are also called southern pygmy chimpanzees. Pygmy because they are physically smaller and weaker, and southern because they only live south of the big Congo stream. They only exist because of physical borders. If some liberal over emotional Bonobo femalle would promote for the immigration of Northern Chimp refugees, the Northern Chimps would wipe the jungle floor with them. Borders save lifes.
I knew about Jane Goodall's experiences with the chimps, and I knew there was some sort of war that went down, but never knew any details. This was super interesting but really tragic and gruesome. It's crazy how similar they are to us in many ways. Lindsay did a great job telling the story. Sweet collab 🤘
They honestly just need to upload the full documentary on TH-cam because I can’t find it anywhere…this is probably one of the most interesting docs out there omg
I wonder if group splits happen a bit more often than we think, but they are not always surviving splits. It may be common for one side of the split to completely off the other one, and thus leaving a survivor bias that we find in the genetics.
Yea, I mean we even have evidence of it. The split tribe got destroyed way too quickly before any genetic variation even began. The rare part is the divide being non aggressive enough to let a new group survive long enough for a few generations to be born.
I mean they wouldn't even have to completely off them. If the group gets small enough it could be consumed by a larger group as presumably the group has to be of some size to form a group at all. The variable ends to splits would be milliard... 2 guys left who joined another group...2 splits who joined... splits who died off cos they got a disease. Splits who had few members who didn't get a disease the main group got... I mean so many thousands of outcomes when you have a species like us. Just as there are many splits within us movements disasters disagreements wars uprisings diseases etc. So yes thats one possibility among millions which would not likely happen often enough to be seen genetically since all the other possibilities would also be happening all the time as well. Groups merging and disemmbling regrouping reforming redividing.
What I'll forever love about Scishow is their commitment in supporting other science communicators/educator creators, especially faces of the next generation!!! Literal examples being that they chose Alexis for CrashCourse Botany, & bringing in Lindsay for this.
Wasnt until i heard the intro music that i realized this was a collab. Amazing job! The level of detail with the interviews was absolutely incredible! I really hope Lindsey enjoyed her time on the show, as she did such a wonderful job if this episodes host! An absolute natural, if you ask me!
i like how long and detailed this video explanation is, with good graphics throughout. when I first heard of this chimpanzee war 7 or 8 years ago, I was intrigued and ended up reading Jane Goodall's whole book about Gombe.
Ethology is so difficult because we've always struggled to observe behaviours without risk of affecting those behaviours, it's a field of science that is rapidly changing, as technological evolutions offer new ways to observe whilst remaining hands off. Brilliant episode, awesome to see Lindsay, hope there are many more videos to come, she's such a brilliant science communicator!!
I studied the Gombe chimp war obsessively for a good 6-8 months in 2019. I got so deep into it that I had the names of the involved chimps, psychological profiles, and events that unfolded committed to memory. This is one of the most fascinating and horrifying stories and one of the few things that fills me with existential dread.
@ there was a much larger community on the other side of Kalhama who the Kasakela perpetuated two sided warfare with until they were strongarmed and Humphrey was killed, and another community on their end they previously avoided who later also smacked them around a few times. Eventually both groups flanked them in the 80s and killed almost everyone before they could start building numbers again. From what I can tell this video summarizes the middle significant portion of a couple’s decades of warfare. There was also a more modern documentary on the groups as they are now from the Jane Goodall Institute that used to be on Hulu that was really good. If you find it warning there’s a heartbreaking death of a baby in it, but it’s great
It's a depressing fact that the more intelligent creatures get, the more intelligently savage they are to one another and other species. We are the best example of this unfortunately.
Existential dread? It’s brutal but it’s just how life destroys itself to rebuild from the best. All 7-8 billion people originated from one group of humans somewhere along the line, and there’s a beauty in that. It’s in its own very backwards way progressive because it forces species to try harder and do better and grow or die. Whereas when a species lives in peace it means nothing is a threat to it so it’s not going to improve genetically. Stagnation can kill a lot harder than war. It’s complex forms of entropy I guess. Maybe you don’t believe in god and that’s why it worries you? I did a little theory crafting over sleepless night that it’s all probably God. What do you do when you can do everything and you can’t become more? You can really do nothing when you can’t grow anymore, because you are all, so you segment yourself, create living beings, put a little peace of yourself in all and force conditions for them to grow, and that’s how God as all powerful being experiences. If there’s life in other dimensions of space I’m sure they’re doing the same thing to each other.
Fantastic Collab... As an old man myself, I really admire Lindsay's passion and storytelling style. And the closing argument really resonated with me. I am stilll hopeful for humankind... Thanks SciShow, and many many thanks to Lindsay.
Sorry, just curious... How is it that you are "still hopeful for mankind" when we have the entire set of recorded history showing there has never been periods where warfare, somewhere, for whatever ridiculous reason, was not the status quo resulting in unspeakable horrors? And recorded history is just a drop in the bucket when it's clear that our ancients did the same thing based on the archeological evidence. And pre-history... no doubt the same as the chimps. Even in our lifetimes, it has been one war after another somewhere. Unending. I'm not even focusing on this episode about chimps -- though it's apparently true that humans are on a different branch of the evolutionary tree, they are still our closest relatives today. It's apparently no different in the supposed idyllic realm of "nature" when it comes to the high-functioning primates. How are you hopeful? What is it that you think will change? Or are you just counting that we merely still exist as your optimism? We've merely existed for a very, very, very long time with some very lucky, and some very unlucky, culture groups. I'd really like to know what you're hopeful about. What is your vision of the future of mankind and why do you have it?
Yeah and the story of that group also gets crazy after the Gombe Chimp war. I took an Anthropology class that covered the Gombe Chimp war and it was fascinating. At some point one of the dominant female chimps just started killing "and" eating the infants of her own group... like she had the munchies and they were an easy snack. ------- Passion (c.1951-1982) was a central female of the Kasekela community. She, along with her daughter Pom, captured, killed, and ate about ten newborns at Gombe.[105] Passion possessed a rather domineering and aggressive personality; according to Goodall, Passion was an indifferent mother to her three surviving offspring. So like Cersei Lanister... if she also ate your kids!!
If the Gombe Chimps were getting too many male infants that might be the cause of that behaviour, I'm no scientist so I have no idea but that would be the sole logical reason I could think of aside from starvation
I'm starting to crave a SciShow hosted documentary series in this style editing and writing. This was very compelling and interesting the whole time! Plus, Lindsey did a great job with the narration, which only added to it. Hands down my favorite scishow episode in a long time, maybe ever.
I'm so thrilled to see Lindsay Nikole on Scishow! Thank you for covering this story so well. I remember reading something from Jane Goodall long after this happened, where she stated this war had shocked and broken her heart so completely, the violence was so hard to witness, it stays with her, and that it was so important to science, it compelled her to continue. I can see why
What surprises me the most is that these researchers saw these brutal and violent acts without being able to do anything, watching a daughter watch her mother being brutally attacked, watching a elderly being brutally killed by a group of larger, stronger and younger chimpanzees, watching an entire group being destroyed and forgotten; and not being able to do anything about it.
Chimps are about 7 times stronger than us, if the researchers had tried to do anything they most likely have been seen as a threat and if not killed there and then wouldn't be doing safe research in the area in the future.
It would be extremely interesting to learn how human intervention might increase/decrease the amounts of violence between warring chimps. Not until we have far more significant data on the subject (in the absence of human intervention), though.
Researchers operate via the prime directive, no intervening in the natural development of a species that has not yet discovered fire or warp travel in no particular order.
Woah, was NOT expecting that ending. Animal-human relations are a mind-maze for sure, but you still managed to find a solid, profound conclusion to it all.
This was fantastic! I knew some of the story, but none of the real details. Having a long-form deep dive into this particular topic was the best way to try to address this important research into a tragic happening. I cannot comprehend how it must have impacted the initial researchers who were there watching it unfold. Lindsay's conclusions are a hopeful take on what we can learn from all this, basically, 'War, huh, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing.' I sure hope this isn't the last time we see such deep dives. Science is not just about facts, but about processes, and stories. SciShow does such a great job explaining things to us, all across the spectrum of scientific research, in your typical videos. But some things are just too complicated to describe in a short time, yet too fascinating to pass up.
One of the most illuminating, and also heartbreaking, videos I've seen in a long time. Thank you for the excellent explanation, which I think does explain more than a little of the dark parts of human nature as well.
Absolutely LOVING these longer form, more in-depth scishow videos. Especially the interviews. It really helps connect you more to the material when you can hear the voices of the people who are actually at the center of the research.
That was interesting. Now I know why it kept popping up in my feed. Ms. Nikole. It was actually startling to hear her presentation without her usual clipped cadence. I hope SciShow has her on again.
Honey bee caring for her mother for 4 days is sadly wholesome, but also shows that they clearly love one another like we can / do. Like other animals would just finish off their own parents and eat them if they showed weakness like that.
Not necessarily, I've seen caretaking and infanticide both in dogs and cats alike. I have frequently seen aging male dogs rather fight their sons to their death than take a submissive pack position. In dogs, the girls are more vicious in pack order in my experience.
Love the collab! Holy bananas, this is horrifying. It must be heartbreaking for the researchers to witness these attacks and not be able to step in and help.
I absolutely loved this deep dive, even though it's pretty gruesome and haunting. I learned more than usual from this channel. I hope y'all keep this level up!
I knew this guest host/collab was happening but I did not expect it to be this expansive a story nope this long of one. I love the act structure and the interviews. Edging far more into documentary territory in form and in length. Congrats Lindsay on a great project!
You know women can also share things without it being flirtatious, right? Edit: I apologize, apparently she has a video on this topic that I didn't know about! Sorry! 🌈
@@MarinusMakesStuff They absolutely can. Of course this one made a video literaly called "shark facts to use as pickup lines" with a thumbnail that says how to flirt, so im not sure what your point is :D
I never knew i needed this collab.😮 Lindsay Nikcole SLAYS this story. ❤ Also i really like this SciShow version of Lindsay's presentations. Less bouncy, more serious tone. Its so nice to see educators ouside of their usual style.
such a brutal and significant story. i am so honored you guys had me on to tell it. thank you so much!! 🖤🖤
I love you, can't belive you're here right now😭
Hay Lindsay, I always wanted to study archeology but lacked the achievement skills for it I love your channel, your videos are always interesting, down to earth and easy to understand. I love your shorts, thank you for all your hard work.
Happy to see you here as well, keep up the good work
Thank you so much for working with us on this big project! It was an absolute privilege!
Best presenter, that we know of.
me: "hahah wow why is that one chimp named satan that's so funny"
lindsay, 20 minutes later: "satan was seen DRINKING BLOOD from his victim' face"
me: "well. now i know"
nominative determinism strikes again!
The question is, was he named like that already before that observation? If so, he might have already done other things that humans see as evil. Or maybe he just looked like he has horns 🥸
Always the ones you least expect...
@sp00n
My guess is that most of chimp without unique physical appearance or unique behavior just labeled as chimp 1, chimp 2, etc. Most scientific research publications did put any name in the research object. Thus, mostlikely most name is given retrospectively for easier identifying for non researchers.
Talk about living up to his name, I wonder if the other chimps were like "bro what" or they just didn't mind it
It doesn't seem like a war but like a genocide. The Goliath group never defended themselves nor retaliated.
Exactly. That's what I was thinking the whole time watching the video. Definitely a genocide, not a war. 😕
it is still a war even if 1 side suck at their job.
Think we found the isreali @@battse7718
Genocide implies the eradication of a separate group, which would make sense for rival groups intentionally killing ALL the members of a rival clan. But that's not what happened here. This was a singular group having a political breakdown and splitting into factions. This was a succession crisis or civil war.
@@pinkcupcake4717 I think I forgot the "leave one alive and it is no longer genocide" loophole.
Scishow: collab?
Lindsay: Sure! Can I say bad words?
Scishow: NO
We're gonna tell the story about Satan drinking blood from his fallen enemy's face, but no swear words. Let's keep it family friendly😬
Fu.........fur sure.
... That we know of
😂😂😂
I sure as frig missed that saucy accent too!
The worst part is Goliath greeted his attackers like friends
The worst thing about betrayal is it always comes from a place of trust.
@@TheCodemasterc Et tu, Brutus? 😉
He didn’t want to die
poor old guy :(
poor old chimp didn't seem aware that the pvp meta had shifted
That was one brilliant piece of scientific journalism if I ever saw one. Extremelly well researched and presented. Truly fantastic, this is what every scientific communicator should aspire to. Thank you SciShow and Lindsay Nikole.
Yo this is about to be the coolest, somewhat unexpected collab ever!
That we know of.
Umm... Love that you added Lindsay's "that we know of"
@@motherof2dragons778birthing 2 dragons had to hurt. 😂
@Ole_CornPop yup 👍
@@Ole_CornPop actually they’re born pretty small… they’re spiky though
absolutely _heinous_
I appreciate how Lindsay dialed it back a bit, to more fit the style of SciShow, but her punchy and dry delivery is one of my favorite parts of her videos. The well researched information is why I love both channels, and this was an absolutely PHENOMENAL colab!!!
Thanks everyone!
Its one of the best presentation styles out there! That we know of!
When she used air quotes to belittle alpha male humans....cringiest thing on TH-cam. Everyone in the comments was saying the same thing about how cringe feminists are that they don't even realize how big of a hypocrite they're being. Secondhand embarrassing
This really shows off her presentation range and skill.
Also making the use of the second camera like the scishow crew do was a nice touch
Also her legs!❤
A secondary horror to the Gombe War, and the general study of the chimpanzees at the time, was that Jane Goodall was harshly criticised by other experts in the field for giving the chimps names, describing their personalities (it was thought chimps didn't have that 'higher thinking' to have personalities) and setting up the feeding stations. They accused her of CAUSING the Gombe War!
Imagine spending all that time dedicated to the study of a group of animals with an equally passionate team and witnessing a ground breaking yet horrific turn of events only to be met with fellow researchers telling you that it was entirely your fault the 'war' happened that caused all those chimps to die.
Thankfully further research has shown that no, Jane Goodall was not the sole cause behind the gombe war, but I can only imagine how horrible it must have felt at the time especially when said research hadn't been conducted yet.
She caused it by overfeeding and therefore overpopulating the chimps. I was ashamed of her for not admitting that. And I realized it myself, never heard of anyone else saying until right now. They pushed it to support Reagans assertion that war is natural.
There's a reasonable argument that the excess energy the chimps got when they didn't need to work for food was released in the form of aggression, that would otherwise be spent on foraging or hunting.
@alliedatheistalliance6776 Yes, that is true but I believe as highlighted in the video it was not necessarily due to the presence of the bananas but rather the lack of females available for mating.
@ that may have helped, but I strongly maintain the endless food supply led to overpopulation ( shown in Goodals documentaries back then). Over population is the classic common cause of aggression. The mouse/rat experiment. They fed them plenty to keep thrm close to make it easier to study them.
@5400bowen I can't disagree with you entirely on that myself honestly. However I don't think either of us are primatologists either.
This video goes SO HARD WTF!! The graphics, the detail, the interviews. You guys always do amazing work and I expect that but this is just blowing me out of the water!!! Incredible video guys thanks! This would be so hard to understand fully without all the little details!
Thank you! Those little details are the work of a bunch of talented people working together -- we've got a great team here. -NS
@SciShow You clearly do!!
This wasn't even the worst of it. Some specific actions were noticeably left out, which I will not detail here. Suffice it to say, it literally led researchers to ask if non-human animals could display characteristics of "evil" that is perform actions that are generally harmful for no discernible benefit to anyone.
@snowballeffect7812 o I wasn't talking about the brutality I was talking about how well the video was made haha!
@@flaminggorilla909
I don't think it's anthropomorphic to call this behavior a "war". After all, ants engage in warfare too and they're extremely brutal.
Why is hard to believe that our close relatives would engage in war just as we do?
while you make a good point, I believe the difference would be that ants, being in eusocial colonies, act more on instinct then chimpanzees that are more individual and smarter than ants, so they must also think of it like a 'war'
"Bcause only humans are bad and therefore only humans can do something as horrible as war", or something.
I'd say that since chimpanzees are our closest living relative species, it's more than likely that they experience the world more similar to humanity than any other extant eukaryotic animal species
Wow, that was brutal. Well done video. The interviews were fantastic. These attacks could have a death metal band based on them.
I think it has more to do with meeting a couple of conditions. The activity must be sustained, and as we see the Gombe war lasted years, while one group of ants fighting another is usually a done deal afterward. Also, I think the idea of coordination is important. The chimps planned and organized their attacks, with what seems obvious intent. Ants, to go back to your example, will fight other ant hills in their area or that they come across, but not in a planned. organized manner. So I think you are correct, it is not at all anthropomorphic to call this a war. There seems to have been intention, coordination, and a sustained level of aggression toward the other group, which makes it a war IMO.
"Humans are the only species that goes to war." Chimps: Hold my hunting stick.
What about Ants?
The Majingilani males went to war with Mapogos over in the Sabi Sands of Londolozi. Lions go to war when it's a new coalition of males intruding a territory. That's all a male lions life is, is war and hunting every day.
i remember hearing awhile ago that there were octopus going to war near the coast of australia using shells as weapon. never checked if it was real or not tho
"War" seems like a good description of what happens when rival groups fight over territory/ What happened in Gombe seems more like civil war against a secessionist group.
@mjbull5156 that's exactly what it was. It's like a family that splits up after grandpa dies. Grandpa was the glue that held the family together. Once he passed, war started.
It was so cool hearing those researchers dish about chimpanzee tea they saw firsthand fifty years ago
I love the clip of dolphins while she says "Wild animals do lots of things that are completely natural, but that doesn't make them ethical."
That's right dolphins, you know what you did.
And to make it worse they're proud of it
Remember this..
Wild dolphins will make friends with female dolphins and then surprise them by sexually assaulting them. The flipper frat of the sea.
Casual Geographic tried to warn us
dolphins always know what they did, and they will do it again
The SECOND Lindsay pulled out that overhead projector I was blasted back to my middle school desk
I've always loved Lindsey's catchphrase. "That we know of" like it's a challenge. Go out and break down barriers and discover older, bigger, newer, smaller.
Definitely a reminder that science is a process and anyone can add to it and that it has not ended. There are more wonders out there.
What we see as fact today can change tomorrow.
I just read "older, bigger, newer, smaller" in the distorted voice of "harder, better, faster, stronger" of Daft Punk
Same here! 🙂
@johannbauer2863 "that we know of, till we find it..."
Chimps find farts to be funny, people find farts to be funny. That means farts have been funny for at least 6 million years.
Or its convergent evolution, both good options.
@@beastamer1990s This implies that finding humor in flatulence is either evolutionarily beneficial enough to evolve more than once or tied to some other beneficial trait and both are funny.
Chimps fart so much that they actually don’t even react to it
@@panthinox7806 well laugher is the best medicine and farts happen a lot.
My dog is afraid of her own toots. 😂
Lindsay's the homie that always skips school but get A+... Always!
Love this collab. So glad Lindsay worked a "heinous" in there.
Agreed
...huh? That's a regular word, not unusual at all. I'd be shocked if she didn't use that word (as well as 10 different synonyms) in a 30 minute video
@@ninjalectualx I take it you aren't familiar with her channel.
Does she use normal words a lot? I think most creators do lmao 🤦♀️
@@ninjalectualx Its just one of the things she says, often... along with her 'catch phrase', ie "That we know of"...
It wouldnt be or feel like her without at least one 'Heinous' thrown in somewhere. And as a word it isnt that commonly used now days really so i wouldnt call it a normal word... more an uncommon one.
Scishow x Lindsay Nikole collab goes crazyyyyy
All we need now is a Casual Geographic collab and all will be complete
Yes!!!!!
Plus this topic is crazy 😮
Yes, Casual × Lindsey × SciShow! Or Casual × SciShow + Lindsey × SciShow separately, of course.😊
HELL YEAH
I've been wanting the colab!!!! I hope the bring her on as a full-time host
The Kasekela invaded because there were rumors that the Kahama apparently had weapons of mass destruction.
Trying so hard not to laugh out loud at 10pm 😂😂😂 dammit
I didn’t expect chimp politics but I’m here for it
We should model ours after theirs.
@@Skibbityboo0580 We are already well on the way
I think we all have thoughts about current events.
@@Skibbityboo0580 its not that different if you strip it down
@@Skibbityboo0580 Someone hasn't been paying attention - watching chimps is like watching our own evolution but in realtime 😉
Me: The name Satan seems like a bit much
Video at 20:15: Satan drank blood from Sniff's face
Me: okay maybe he deserved the name
plot twist : the name was given before the said incident
@@arabesquewhyisthistakennow maybe there were other kinda satanic behaviors that were observed with that individual 🤣
@@taidee🤦♀️ satanic behavior for really it's wild life don't apply human morals and ethics on them 😂
@@sb-bw4lp it's a joke, my dude.
P.S. I do enjoy the phrasing "for really" though, that's funny
Hearing about the attack on Goliath: Damn...what did he do to make those chimps that mad?
Betrayal
Chose a side.
From the sound of things the chimps had rules regarding who got females.
A 1v1 was required.
Humphrey abided by that, but Hugh and Charlie didn't but got rewarded with females on their side anyway.
So Humphrey decided to enforce the law.
@@bolbyballinger Nothing in the video actually states that the dominance hierarchy had much to do with who "got females". That's often our assumption in animal groups, but in this case it seems that the associated attention and grooming given to the alpha was from all members of the group, although of course with female chimps being generally on the bottom of the pecking order it makes sense that at least some of them would generally cleave to the group consensus on who's who and what's what in terms of leadership.
Chimpnificent
Existed. Chimps are naturally violent and don't let anyone try and tell you any different.
being taught with the old school projector takes me back. i miss those things
My high school history teacher still used one of those when he taught us a little over ten years ago. He was considered a dinosaur for it, but seeing Lindsay use one just reinforces to me how effective they can be when used right. Such a cool piece of "old school" technology
How light reflects from surfaces is natural to our eyes. Light shooting directly from like leds and the colours and shade being unnatural doesn't sit as well.
Last week, I just had a class in Uni where the modern projector refuse to connect to the laptop and had to move to another room when the technician couldn't fix it.
Old school projectors are simple things, it's basically a box with a giant light and a mirror. There are very few things that could go wrong with them.
That said, digital projectors do have more capabilities
Lindsay trying so hard to be subdued and professional is honestly uncanny 😂. You're doing great girl you got this!
she is always professional, other people are just prudes and insincere.
that we know of
@@jesipohl6717 you ok?
She’s trying so hard to stay mostly still compared to normal and keep her speaking patterns steady! She did good!
@@jesipohl6717 this
Anyone who thinks a chimp is a suitable pet is INSANE, PERIOD.
Surviving the attack isn’t always mercy. Many times, it’s a way to make the suffering last. This sounds like every civil war I’ve ever heard of.
Yea they know when something is truely dead... Based on the variation with length of attacks, with most surviving the inital confrontation to only succumb to wounds later
Are chimps capable of consistently displaying that kind of forethought? It makes way more sense to conclude that the patrolling chimps recognized their former friends, but didn't have the cognitive capacity to understand that this meant that they should treat them differently from stranger chimps that they encounter on patrol.
Or send a message, or instill general fear and dominance etc
@@catatoblob8598most research would say they definitely have for thought, tho many things may be more innate to varying degrees too. Instinctual, hormonal, etc
we can take them.
I've been a long time viewer of SciShow, and I can NOT understate how wonderful it is to see Lindsay Nikole joining the team to talk about animal research and history! Not only a perfect choice, that we know of, but it would have been absolutely HEINOUS to choose anyone else! Thank you SciShow, and thank you Lindsay for ALL the research you share with us! Hope to see LOTS more of her on this channel!
Idk casual geographic would also have been loved, at least by me
@@chrysanthiechrissos-yy4hi Oh Casual needs to be on here at some point too! Perhapes on some badass topic regarding elephants!
Never heard about Lindsay Nicole. Who is she?
*overstate
What? Are you new to TH-cam? Haha
Woah didn’t expect to see Lindsay here, what a pleasant surprise for such an unpleasant story
I think it's also interesting to contrast chimp behaviour with that of bonobos. They are far more closely related to chimps than either are to us, but they behave (especially in terms of social interaction and group dynamics) very differently from both of us.
i wish we were more related to bonobos than chimps
Sure about that? Ever notice the white race can never have their own area to live peacefully without having women tell us they need foreigners as well, undermining our success and progress for illegals, felons??
@vulcanfeline we are equally related to both
we are capable of both types of behavior.
Bonobos are also called southern pygmy chimpanzees. Pygmy because they are physically smaller and weaker, and southern because they only live south of the big Congo stream. They only exist because of physical borders. If some liberal over emotional Bonobo femalle would promote for the immigration of Northern Chimp refugees, the Northern Chimps would wipe the jungle floor with them. Borders save lifes.
I knew about Jane Goodall's experiences with the chimps, and I knew there was some sort of war that went down, but never knew any details. This was super interesting but really tragic and gruesome. It's crazy how similar they are to us in many ways. Lindsay did a great job telling the story. Sweet collab 🤘
I don't know why but all of a sudden. I want to just go up to a friend of mine randomly and just be like, "Ah, those chimps are at war again."
YES! I’ve been waiting for this collab; I enjoy and appreciate both these channels so much 🎉
Scishow *and* Lindsay Nikole in one video?! Instant like.
They honestly just need to upload the full documentary on TH-cam because I can’t find it anywhere…this is probably one of the most interesting docs out there omg
I wonder if group splits happen a bit more often than we think, but they are not always surviving splits. It may be common for one side of the split to completely off the other one, and thus leaving a survivor bias that we find in the genetics.
Yea, I mean we even have evidence of it. The split tribe got destroyed way too quickly before any genetic variation even began.
The rare part is the divide being non aggressive enough to let a new group survive long enough for a few generations to be born.
Great take
Yeah, that's what I thought and went into comments for. It's likely that splits happened much more often, but they have a very low rate of survival
I mean they wouldn't even have to completely off them. If the group gets small enough it could be consumed by a larger group as presumably the group has to be of some size to form a group at all. The variable ends to splits would be milliard... 2 guys left who joined another group...2 splits who joined... splits who died off cos they got a disease. Splits who had few members who didn't get a disease the main group got... I mean so many thousands of outcomes when you have a species like us. Just as there are many splits within us movements disasters disagreements wars uprisings diseases etc. So yes thats one possibility among millions which would not likely happen often enough to be seen genetically since all the other possibilities would also be happening all the time as well. Groups merging and disemmbling regrouping reforming redividing.
Yep, especially if the reason the tribe survived because they had an unnaturally high amount of male chimps was true
Absolutely love the collaboration! The only way I can describe seeing Lindsay on SciShow, though, is like seeing your teacher at the grocery store.
You got a thumbs up from me with your first explanation of what happened. I loved hearing about what happened and then you going into detail.
What I'll forever love about Scishow is their commitment in supporting other science communicators/educator creators, especially faces of the next generation!!! Literal examples being that they chose Alexis for CrashCourse Botany, & bringing in Lindsay for this.
Wasnt until i heard the intro music that i realized this was a collab. Amazing job! The level of detail with the interviews was absolutely incredible! I really hope Lindsey enjoyed her time on the show, as she did such a wonderful job if this episodes host! An absolute natural, if you ask me!
HQ
hi lindsay!!! thank you guys for bringing her on :) loved this one
Can’t wait til the bring in Casual Geographic :) this was a very interesting video 😊
@SciShow please make this happen. He and Hank Green can co-host
Oh, I came here to say the CG thing, and then it got better!
i like how long and detailed this video explanation is, with good graphics throughout. when I first heard of this chimpanzee war 7 or 8 years ago, I was intrigued and ended up reading Jane Goodall's whole book about Gombe.
What an excellent production. Story told engagingly and cohesively with the GFX and Lindsay was awesome. Well done!
Ethology is so difficult because we've always struggled to observe behaviours without risk of affecting those behaviours, it's a field of science that is rapidly changing, as technological evolutions offer new ways to observe whilst remaining hands off.
Brilliant episode, awesome to see Lindsay, hope there are many more videos to come, she's such a brilliant science communicator!!
I studied the Gombe chimp war obsessively for a good 6-8 months in 2019. I got so deep into it that I had the names of the involved chimps, psychological profiles, and events that unfolded committed to memory. This is one of the most fascinating and horrifying stories and one of the few things that fills me with existential dread.
@ there was a much larger community on the other side of Kalhama who the Kasakela perpetuated two sided warfare with until they were strongarmed and Humphrey was killed, and another community on their end they previously avoided who later also smacked them around a few times. Eventually both groups flanked them in the 80s and killed almost everyone before they could start building numbers again. From what I can tell this video summarizes the middle significant portion of a couple’s decades of warfare. There was also a more modern documentary on the groups as they are now from the Jane Goodall Institute that used to be on Hulu that was really good. If you find it warning there’s a heartbreaking death of a baby in it, but it’s great
@@anathardayaldar there is a genocide in gaza that people also call war. literally the same dynamics
It's a depressing fact that the more intelligent creatures get, the more intelligently savage they are to one another and other species. We are the best example of this unfortunately.
Existential dread? It’s brutal but it’s just how life destroys itself to rebuild from the best. All 7-8 billion people originated from one group of humans somewhere along the line, and there’s a beauty in that. It’s in its own very backwards way progressive because it forces species to try harder and do better and grow or die. Whereas when a species lives in peace it means nothing is a threat to it so it’s not going to improve genetically. Stagnation can kill a lot harder than war. It’s complex forms of entropy I guess.
Maybe you don’t believe in god and that’s why it worries you? I did a little theory crafting over sleepless night that it’s all probably God. What do you do when you can do everything and you can’t become more? You can really do nothing when you can’t grow anymore, because you are all, so you segment yourself, create living beings, put a little peace of yourself in all and force conditions for them to grow, and that’s how God as all powerful being experiences. If there’s life in other dimensions of space I’m sure they’re doing the same thing to each other.
@@DrakesGhostWriterIt's a very unsuccessful genocide...
This is an awesome video! So well researched. Glad to have found it. Subscribed! ❤
Fantastic Collab... As an old man myself, I really admire Lindsay's passion and storytelling style. And the closing argument really resonated with me. I am stilll hopeful for humankind... Thanks SciShow, and many many thanks to Lindsay.
Sorry, just curious... How is it that you are "still hopeful for mankind" when we have the entire set of recorded history showing there has never been periods where warfare, somewhere, for whatever ridiculous reason, was not the status quo resulting in unspeakable horrors? And recorded history is just a drop in the bucket when it's clear that our ancients did the same thing based on the archeological evidence. And pre-history... no doubt the same as the chimps. Even in our lifetimes, it has been one war after another somewhere. Unending. I'm not even focusing on this episode about chimps -- though it's apparently true that humans are on a different branch of the evolutionary tree, they are still our closest relatives today. It's apparently no different in the supposed idyllic realm of "nature" when it comes to the high-functioning primates. How are you hopeful? What is it that you think will change? Or are you just counting that we merely still exist as your optimism? We've merely existed for a very, very, very long time with some very lucky, and some very unlucky, culture groups. I'd really like to know what you're hopeful about. What is your vision of the future of mankind and why do you have it?
‘One team has a member named Willy-Wally, the other team has a member named satan. I wonder who the bad guys are’
Qxir
I feel like this misses the whole point of the video.
1:11 interesting pronouns
Wtf
Is it really a war when only one side is doing all the killing it's more of a massacre
Right? It's like the modern Israelis vs Palestinians conflict. The death ratio is skewed wayyyy against one group.
@@katyungodlyyes, the pallies constantly attack the other side just because they exist. Get your facts straight on who the 16:27 aggressor is.
@katyungodly you found the zios who have no understanding of history 💀
@@mobster24451True israel is pathetic
@@katyungodly damn look at the replies to this goddamn, jus pure racism
Yeah and the story of that group also gets crazy after the Gombe Chimp war. I took an Anthropology class that covered the Gombe Chimp war and it was fascinating. At some point one of the dominant female chimps just started killing "and" eating the infants of her own group... like she had the munchies and they were an easy snack. ------- Passion (c.1951-1982) was a central female of the Kasekela community. She, along with her daughter Pom, captured, killed, and ate about ten newborns at Gombe.[105] Passion possessed a rather domineering and aggressive personality; according to Goodall, Passion was an indifferent mother to her three surviving offspring. So like Cersei Lanister... if she also ate your kids!!
Fun fact
@@steelenutz1more like horrifying fact 😬
Where on God's green Earth did you get that emoji?
@@wr-sc7et I think it was when I paid for TH-cam without adds?
If the Gombe Chimps were getting too many male infants that might be the cause of that behaviour, I'm no scientist so I have no idea but that would be the sole logical reason I could think of aside from starvation
Thanks for this thorough & fascinating account. I'd been looking for more on the Gombe war. Excellent production. Love the updates/updates.
I know this is a deep dive, but I would have listened to two more hours about this. Thanks, SciShow and Nikole!
I'm starting to crave a SciShow hosted documentary series in this style editing and writing. This was very compelling and interesting the whole time! Plus, Lindsey did a great job with the narration, which only added to it. Hands down my favorite scishow episode in a long time, maybe ever.
*_"Chimpanzee in Ngogo lived together in harmony._*
*_Then, everything changed in 2015, when the Western Nation attacked"_*
I'm so thrilled to see Lindsay Nikole on Scishow! Thank you for covering this story so well. I remember reading something from Jane Goodall long after this happened, where she stated this war had shocked and broken her heart so completely, the violence was so hard to witness, it stays with her, and that it was so important to science, it compelled her to continue. I can see why
OOH!!!! The teased legendary crossover! Bout time Complexly brought you on as a guest, Lindsay! Way to go!
What surprises me the most is that these researchers saw these brutal and violent acts without being able to do anything, watching a daughter watch her mother being brutally attacked, watching a elderly being brutally killed by a group of larger, stronger and younger chimpanzees, watching an entire group being destroyed and forgotten; and not being able to do anything about it.
Chimps are about 7 times stronger than us, if the researchers had tried to do anything they most likely have been seen as a threat and if not killed there and then wouldn't be doing safe research in the area in the future.
It would be extremely interesting to learn how human intervention might increase/decrease the amounts of violence between warring chimps.
Not until we have far more significant data on the subject (in the absence of human intervention), though.
Maybe the chimps know we are watching, and that is already altering theyre behavior.
It's not exactly surprising to me, but I do find it sad. I wouldn't be able to handle it personally
Researchers operate via the prime directive, no intervening in the natural development of a species that has not yet discovered fire or warp travel in no particular order.
Woah, was NOT expecting that ending. Animal-human relations are a mind-maze for sure, but you still managed to find a solid, profound conclusion to it all.
IM SO PROUD OF YOU LINDSAY THEY NEED TO GIVE YOU A TV SHOW ASAP
I am so happy to see Lindsay on here!!!
This was fantastic! I knew some of the story, but none of the real details. Having a long-form deep dive into this particular topic was the best way to try to address this important research into a tragic happening. I cannot comprehend how it must have impacted the initial researchers who were there watching it unfold. Lindsay's conclusions are a hopeful take on what we can learn from all this, basically, 'War, huh, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing.'
I sure hope this isn't the last time we see such deep dives. Science is not just about facts, but about processes, and stories. SciShow does such a great job explaining things to us, all across the spectrum of scientific research, in your typical videos. But some things are just too complicated to describe in a short time, yet too fascinating to pass up.
This was SO EFFING GOOD!
Thank you SciShow for collabing with one of the best science educators out here. Lindsay, *chef's kiss* 10/10 no notes 🩵
Hey congratulations getting on scishow! Ive been a huge fan of both you and Scishow for years, seems like a great fit!
I like the calmer Lindsay. Especially considering the subject matter of the video...
One of the most illuminating, and also heartbreaking, videos I've seen in a long time. Thank you for the excellent explanation, which I think does explain more than a little of the dark parts of human nature as well.
Lindsay, you are a superb presenter. Love you.
I love me some good sci show but wow I was absolutely and completely invested in this drama, I had no idea how much I needed this
Absolutely LOVING these longer form, more in-depth scishow videos. Especially the interviews. It really helps connect you more to the material when you can hear the voices of the people who are actually at the center of the research.
That was interesting. Now I know why it kept popping up in my feed. Ms. Nikole. It was actually startling to hear her presentation without her usual clipped cadence. I hope SciShow has her on again.
You told this story so well Lindsay!! It's brutal but fascinating. Hope to see more collabs between you and the scishow family.
This woman is being broadcasted on all my favorite science channels. And I am so here for it.
Tell me about the other science channels
@agsweet708 Hank Green, Casual Geographic, and Mini minuteman (aka Milo Rossi). She has shown up on a few others as well.
@@agsweet708 Forest Valkai and PBS eons as well.
@HannibalKing-e7e ok boomer
One of the most fascinating videos I’ve seen in a long while
So excited for this collab!
IT'S LINDSAY NIKOLE?! AAAA SO EXCITED AND HAPPY FOR THIS COLLAB!
Im not very far into the video yet but I'm excited because this is very well done
Honey bee caring for her mother for 4 days is sadly wholesome, but also shows that they clearly love one another like we can / do.
Like other animals would just finish off their own parents and eat them if they showed weakness like that.
That reminds me of the nothern resident orca who carried her baby's corpse for a while. (Along the nothern pacific coast of the us).
But then there was Little Bee, who joined the opposing tribe and watched them kill her mother.
@bridgecross A human kid could easily do the same thing
@@GenderFluidDragonKing yup. I remember middle school.
Not necessarily, I've seen caretaking and infanticide both in dogs and cats alike. I have frequently seen aging male dogs rather fight their sons to their death than take a submissive pack position. In dogs, the girls are more vicious in pack order in my experience.
Love the collab! Holy bananas, this is horrifying. It must be heartbreaking for the researchers to witness these attacks and not be able to step in and help.
Wow, this was truly a story! Thank you so much!
This is the best SciShow episode ever! Props to everyone that worked on it. PS this need to be made into a movie.
I absolutely loved this deep dive, even though it's pretty gruesome and haunting. I learned more than usual from this channel. I hope y'all keep this level up!
Love seeing my favorite science educator on other channels.
I am beyond thrilled after watching this. What a connection, what a story,, what a staff, what a production. Thank you!
@LindsayNikole was the perfect host for this content, metal, empathic, and scientific. Greatest host for this, that we know of.
Incredibly interesting video - the interviews with some of the researchers add so much to it =]
One of the best Sci Show episodes I’ve ever seen. Thank you.
I knew this guest host/collab was happening but I did not expect it to be this expansive a story nope this long of one. I love the act structure and the interviews. Edging far more into documentary territory in form and in length. Congrats Lindsay on a great project!
I see SciShow, press plau and hear Lindsay Nicole. My day just went from good to awesome
Lindsay, that was an amazing presentation. Both informative and compassionate. I'm taken aback. Bravo!
Hey, its the girl that flirts on parties by telling how old sharks are.
Cool.
Chicks love sharks. My sister still believes in the "megalodon."
You know women can also share things without it being flirtatious, right?
Edit:
I apologize, apparently she has a video on this topic that I didn't know about! Sorry! 🌈
@@MarinusMakesStuff They absolutely can. Of course this one made a video literaly called "shark facts to use as pickup lines" with a thumbnail that says how to flirt, so im not sure what your point is :D
@@TheMax1087 Haha okay you got me there! Thanks for clarifying :)
@@MarinusMakesStuffShe also has a series of shorts titled along the lines of "me at the club" where she flirts by sharing cool animal facts.
I have Dr. Goodall’s book and knew about this war. But it was awesome to hear Lindsay Nikole tell the story.
At 27:23 man that is super scary. Dr. Aaron literally hearing chimps about to tear each other apart and getting a little shaken up
It was quite a treat on a Scishow vid and find Lindsay Nikole guest hosting! Love it when some of my favorite creators collab!
That's so awesome to see you on Scishow. That's also so cool of Hank!
I didn't realize this was a Scishow video until just before the intro! Super excited to see this collab! Great video!!!!
I never knew i needed this collab.😮
Lindsay Nikcole SLAYS this story. ❤
Also i really like this SciShow version of Lindsay's presentations. Less bouncy, more serious tone. Its so nice to see educators ouside of their usual style.
Well put together! This presentation gave me a really good understanding of animal behaviour even though I am not an expert. Thank you for your work!
Oh AMAZING episode! (And more Lindsay plz!)